My mentor once told me, "One day you'll get tired of all the new stuff." Now I just find what works, keep a small collection, keep an ear on the ground for the revolutionary stuff. Too much noise these days.
Heres what helped me from 100s of plugins and 100s of hours of production/mixing tips over 20 years: Leave when your excited, never overwork, save your ears and keep a distance to your productions/mixes. Dont zoom in on individual elements too much, "fixing" out of context details will just ruin your overall product in the end. Know a few plugins really well, listen on as many different speakers/headphones you can if you cant own really expensive ones. Thats all I can think of actually? Oh, and running every other day did help me more then any new plugin I can think of since Waves L2 and UA Pultec. Maybe Im lazy....
I've been on a GAS bender for different emulations and to be honest, I felt that most of them even made mixes sound worse. They are not as precise and fast to be honest. Just an hour ago I was trying to cut certain frequency in a kick drum and used an SSL emulation, and it did what I needed it to do, but then I opened up a Pro-Q3, and I were able to cut this annoying frequency faster and with more precision (because I didn't need to turn three different knobs with a mouse, which just slows you down), and the kick sounded better. And all I needed just a small cut with narrow Q at 113 Hz and that's about it. I didn't need any additional saturation or anything special from the plugin, I didn't need some weird analog EQ curve or automatic AI thing. And that was more exciting than any new emulation or crazy machine learning automatic plugin.
It's as much for me as it is for for everyone else. I like to do these tests and reviews for my own curiosity too. Before using a piece of gear I want to know it inside and out.
I’m in the same boat as you completely. Been obsessed with it for 10 years and spent so much but there just is no interest for me either. You hit the nail on the head!
2 years and no plugins for me. I might bite on UAD’s sale with a $25 coupon for the Ampex. If you add up the amount of money you’ve spent on “emulating plugins,” you could’ve purchased something analog in that realm. For example, all the SSL plugins I’ve bought over the years, I could have purchased the SSL 611 eq’s.
The only plugins i love using outside of the digital tools (proQ etc) are UAD and Acustica as they have really pleasing box tones/saturation. Good if you don't have much analogue gear.
I've been using Two Radial Guitar pedal re-amp units and experimenting with guitar pedals. It's a pain buying two pedals for the stereo field but the results have been interesting. It's main born out of wanting to find something new.
Yeah. I've got hundreds if not thousands of plugins that are never used. At the time, they seemed better than what I was previously using, but in reality I think it's was just the GUI change that maybe inspired me.
I’m starting to feel the same way, where also it seems the “buzz” is moreso triggered by the change in GUI rather the the sound itself. The realization that the mind can play tricks on our eyes based on what we perceive the difference is under the influence of the graphic design variation. Once you go hardware, the sonic threshold established is hard to topple. I got into a mode of accumulating plugins chasing after a sonic imprint that was the equivalent of analog, only to discover “why” when I already have analog. Unless it’s doing something that’s unique to digital, it’s just another set of pounds into the vst money pit.
The thing with hardware is that every component makes a difference. Every unit is slightly different even when built in the same production line at the same factory. I did a video yesterday on why I use 8 different EQs and how they all sound different and fit a unique purpose. I can't say the same for plugin EQs.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio There are several plugins out there where the developer states they model at the component level, but unless we can investigate them in JUCE and not just rely on plugin doctor, assume it’s just a digital waveshaper wrapped in a new layout. There is one new tech that is interesting though you should look into NAM samples in Genome. It’s like the next step up from convolution sampling. It’s early on and still developing but it sounds a bit better than algo-based plugs.
@Sance21 the more we build in JUCE the more we realise how easy it is to create plugins that sound the same as everything else on the market. Trying to work out how to make something different. Something that will excite me. I've taken ideas to multiple plugin manufacturers as I'd rather them develop something new and unique. Just a waiting game to see if they can develop it.
Completely agree. I’ve scaled down to a relatively small collection of plugins that work for me and I’m done searching for the next new thing. If something really revolutionary comes along then I’ll hear about it through the grapevine and I’ll check it out then. But unless it is actually revolutionary in some meaningful way, then I’m not interested anymore.
I've purchased 1 new plugin in the last 5 or 6 years and it was the Waves WLM Loudness Meter. I use about 10 plugins regularly and the rest were a complete waste of cash. My favourite thing is when you purchase a plugin for $300 and 2 years later it's selling for $30.
After watching your vids and seeing you use all this tasty analog gear i've came to realize that plugins are great for subtractive work & creative effects ... the real umphh is coming from your analog gear ( a domain i need to delve into ) 💯 Thanks for the sharing the knowledge 🙌
I hear you. I recently stopped buying plugins and am now acquiring hardware and could not be happier with the results. I still like digital plugins like fab filter as well for fixing issues but I’m getting all of the mojo from inductors, transformers and tubes. Just magic.
Exactly what I started to feel few months ago. I just went to a point where I think no one need new plugins atm. I kinda like the workflow of certains plugins because of specific curves or path, but yeah nothing new interesting. Even the new transient/sustain on Ozone or Split Eq, it’s great but I never had a true opportunity to say « yeah I really needed that on this master », even on a mix.
Yeah, split EQ was great when it released. That one excited me a lot for a good few months. Then I used it less and less. And now it sits in the unused folder.
If more digital recallable gear comes out from outstanding companies like Wes Audio that are pushing the envelope - even their customer service is top notch. I’ll keep slowly buying more
Try the Kirchoff instead of pro Q3. Same GUI, BUT it can perform in 128 bits instead of 64 bits. There is a button in the top right corner Labeled 117 bits. When enabled in conjunction with the 2x oversampling mode and mixed phase (natural phase in bass, linear phase in mids and highs), you get the essence of amazing digital transparency with 0 bloom or harshness. In mastering it's shocking how better it sounds compared to Pro-Q3, with again the same exact GUI. Hope you will give it a try since it's included in your Plugin Alliance subscription.
Hey man, I absolutely get this feeling. And its a bit depressing because I too really enjoyed hearing about new products, can’t quite remember what killed it off…oh yeah, I remember…hardware. Actually, although you only touched on it, I am excited by and just bought the izotope MSP 6.5. I was allergic to the idea of this eco system, but accidentally got into it when looking to get RX. Now, the AI component is not perfect, but I like it. And, the additional tools like sculpter and the sidechain plug are really creative aiding and handy for moving a project from unmixed to a state, that I’d probably reach just after lunch, before I realised I was over doing everything, except in about 7.5 minutes. To me, this is very exciting because I feel like its allowing me to try out ideas very quickly, even entire mix approaches. Even if this product still has away to go, there is nothing else like it. To that end, its genuinely a different sort plugin(s) and that has to be a good thing in a world otherwise adding yet more EQs and Compressors to a rapidly growing, uninspiring pile of digital trash.
After 20 plus years mixing inside the box for Big Studio Hollywood audio post.. I have gone analog summing and 2buss / Mastering hardware. Never going back to all ITB. There is no comparison IMO implementing a hybrid system.
I'm glad I'm not alone. I too have every damn plugin that's worth its salt, and I use maybe 25 of them in total, leaving literally hundreds and hundreds unused. Software controlled hardware is the future in some ways but honestly, it's really just a convenience feature. 1's and 0's will likely never be as good as analog, and it will never be as enjoyable to interact with, that's for sure. Hybrid however with 1 foot in a1 foot out really has no equal in my opinion. It really comes down to workflow and if required to work in a mobile capacity is when plugins shine, temporarily. Then run everything though the hardware chain at home.
Its funny how you have articulated my journey with plugins so well. There was a time I was really excited about the new stuff, until I realised that most of the new vst's just aren't that different or "better" than their competitors or what came before. My own research led me to agree with your statement that eq "emulations" capture the curves but not the actual feel / depth / richness of hardware. I am getting really tired of the false claims by plugin manufacturers that their emulations sound like the real thing. They just don't. I think you said it elsewhere that the plugins that do make sense are the ones that explore the digital realm to the fullest... like Soothe, Smart EQ, plugins with spectral side-chaining etc. Also, I do appreciate those manufacturers that have proper anti-aliasing in their plugin designs.
For me the power plugins have is giving me something I can have out the box. Combining the two to get the best of both worlds. Soothe and split EQ are prime examples. Nothing like them out the box. Same with plugins like Fabfilter pro Q3. The visual analyser gives you something you don't have out the box. Hardware emulations are nice but they don't sound the same and they limit their functionality in the box by trying to be something out the box.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Agreed! I mean, if plugins ever do get to sound as good as hardware, that would be amazing - and then I wouldn't mind if a plugin limits its functionality to match that of the hardware its emulating. But until then, lets be realistic about how they do actually sound. On the other hand, there are some things that can only be done in the box (Soothe, Split EQ) and THOSE plugins are pretty amazing and becoming indispensable. And for those of us who can't afford the hardware, we'll keep using plugins. But I have no illusions about the quality of the sound compared to high quality hardware
So funny because I've been feeling the same way for a while now. The last plugin that really blew my socks off was Soothe 2. I've also spent several thousand dollars on plugins only to use a handful of them regularly. Maybe some incredible AI tech will bring forth the next amazing plugin but for now, hardware gets the job done. Especially since the combination of Flock Audio Patch and Dangerous Liaison makes it so easy to use hardware like plugins.
It's brilliant. We don't run a recording studio so we don't have a huge mic locker. This gives us one a stereo mic with lots of different options and possibilities of how it sounds.
Totally agree with you, there's only so much plugins can do as far as sound is concerned. When I have the money the setup will be hybrid because no plugin can get that special feel/vibe. I forgot what company David Gnozzi Mentioned on his channel, there's a plugin company that is using the GUI in-part with the CPU processing power to created some revolutionary plugins, hopefully this encourages everyone to take note and start making some changes. Great Video
Yeah Marlon over at White Noise Studios here on TH-cam has talked about them, too; they are called GPU Audio. You're quite welcome, mate. That's the processor power to take off of the CPU, but that doesn't solve the ITB (bka in the box) 0s and 1s digital resonance versus tube-transformer-tape analog emulation with a limited subset of plugins ITB that actually do the latter.
Fair comment. Isn’t it, though, just stuff being pushed down the chain to very low marginal cost. Like online music. Barriers to entry are low so there’s a lot of it and returns are low. This commoditisation flows through the chain.
The more I learn the better sound my mixes - sometimes I mix with Uad, sometimes with Waves, sometimes with stock plugins - and every mix sounds good (not great yet) - it doesnt matter. The decisions will always be more important than any plugin.
That might sound like a major shift in topic, but he thing is, we’re all making music, and we should worry less about the technical details and more about the issue of declining appreciation and attention for music in the media world. Everyone loves music, but no one acknowledges its monetary value. As long as this problem isn’t solved, AI products that make our work, like that of a mixing engineer, more efficient and profitable will become increasingly important. The upcoming plugins that can do things with the help of AI will give us new inspiration and allow us to focus again on what’s essential in music.
I am too... except Acustica Audio. That ones replaced all my UAD, Plugin alliance, Oeksound.. Algorithmic Plugins are much work and the result is not what I get nearly with AA or with real hardware. Only some reverb, modulation, little helpers and delay plugins are great in the software world. Ozone is not bad... but I tried Softube Flow and it’s the better thing.. software wise.
@@ignacedhont9816 You need to combine plugins, mate. No one plugin is a one-stop-chop shop to get the hardware sound. Depending on the plugins and the material, it can take you from 6 up to 14 plugins on your master bus to get that hardware sound. Overkill sometimes yes i'd agree, but it's doable and proper as the corrective end result.
Know what always beats plugins and hardware in production? A great song and performance. Always trumps any gear. No number 1 hit song was ever created where listeners pointed out that an 1176 or LA2A on vocals and SSL bus compressor on master bus made it a hit song
Maybe it is also the subscription laziness on the developing side. Where there is a need to push out something. Which is then more important then make something convincing. Same can be said for adobe for instance.. and they can not even get their use of shortkeys aligned
I just make music for fun so with a grain of salt... it's like we've forgotten what we're even looking for in a sound/mix. I could understand as a professional these are tools to improve workflow and results but to what end? The perfect bottom end, the perfect sidechain etc. Like this new eq, reverb, compressor is a game changer? Amazing records have been made for 60+ years now. Reinventing the wheel. I realise I prefer broader strokes in my music, detailed this and that is not my style and I know some genres call for that. Now I just want the most basic stuff that sounds good, not perfect.
The thing is, they already have your money. Young people or people new to the game will buy all the things you mentioned, they may someday feel this way, but until then.
Couldnt agree more, its been years since ive felt "excited" but a new plugin..the last time was the Weiss DS1, and I use it all the time. It sounds better than a LOT of itb compressors yet its a code from the 90's (!)... So you're definitely right that a lot of similar algorithm must be used nowadays because, they all sound more of the same to my ears...
Most functional paradigms have been done to death. Only place to go is making them prettier and more (cpu) efficiency. Different is nice sometimes, but nothing is going to beat knowing the kit inside out.
I rarely get excited about plugins. It is great music that captures my interest. When a recorded performance rises above most of the dross that is put forth as "music" these days, I'm excited to use the plugins I already have, to make the mix the best it can be (or at least the best I can make it). Plugins are just a tool to get you to the really satisfying part - the music!
I couldn't agree any more with you... I used to be all over my promotional emails... All over the reviewer's videos... Couldn't wait to hear about the next new plugin release... Now I could care less. I feel like I have more than I could ever need and nothing even grabs my attention anymore.
Here's a few that bring something new to the table: oeksound soothe, eventide split eq and physion, tone projects basslane pro & kelvin, uad sound city
I agree, what I like, however, is having several compressors, saturaters, clippers, tape for different flavors. It can be inspiring. But in general, the market is oversaturated with plugins.
Paul you said all. I’m glad this topic came up. I thought I was the only person feeling that way. I’m hoping that some of these plugins companies will try to incorporate the digital domain into some popular analog gears which are already in the market. For example, they can say send us your analog gears and we will built in the software to create the hybrid. Something like the WesAudio products. I wouldn’t mind sending all my analog gears 😂. Maybe WesAudio should start doing that for major analog gears companies.
I hit tipping point with plugins this week, not sure if you're going to mention this but Audio TH-camrs are pretty bad for this. I'm trying to get started but this is the most confusing and frustrating endeavour I've ever participated in. Every single TH-camr, in the pursuit of their next content piece, has the next big "THIS IS THE ONLY PLUGIN YOU'LL EVER NEED" video, or "THIS IS THE TRICK ALL THE PRODUCERS USE" and every time it's a new plugin, a new workflow, with the next TH-camr saying their one-button trick is all you need. This results in new comers being absolutely drowned in baloney, no idea what to do, you then try and adopt as many of these "hacks" as possible and ruin your track... then never understanding why because you've done what you were told. Just look at your video recommendations on the right of the screen, at least 90% of them are "MUST KNOW TRICKS" or "INSTANTLY GET PERFECT SOUNDS" videos... it's infuriating. If it was that easy, if it's just a couple of plugins to get perfect sound then why are these guys boasting about their 20+ years experience in the business... have you been pressing 1 button for 20 years then?!
Let me tell you this as a fact. If there's a secret workflow or secret to the sound someone creates, they aren't sharing it with others on youtube. I share a lot on youtube, but I never share the secrets to obtaining my sound. That's my sound. You'll find this is similar to others, too. These videos annoy me too as they are factually incorrect and are click bait. There is no one plugin you'll ever need and there is no trick all producers use. My advice would be, trust nothing until you test the process for yourself and find out if it works for you.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Yea I've learned that over the last 12 months, but beginners don't have the knowledge or experience to know what works for them... they rely on the advice to guide them. You try and copy others who claim to know what they are doing, but you don't have an experienced enough ear to be satisfied that it's good enough. You always see the next video claiming this guy has what you're missing, so you add it, and it either makes zero difference or ruins your track. I'm 99% convinced that these guys use words like "tightening up the bottom end, add flavour to a vocal, vocal jumping out from a mix" when in fact absolutely nothing is actually happening... it's like they just say these things to make you feel like you aren't special enough to hear what they can! I've ended up buying at least 50 Waves plugins already, each one came from some video claiming it'll add something special. SSL this on the master bus, Abbey Road that on the vocals, In the end after hundreds of hours, I've settled on using almost none of them.
@Reginaldborington yeah and the worst thing is this is at a cost to you to gain not a lot. These are all buzz words. The secret to removing mud from your mix is particular buzz word you hear a lot. A lot of people will say these things not even hearing what it is they are claiming. I hear it a lot in the comments for videos. We all perceive sound differently. Best advice for you would be a lot of trial and error. There's no real quick fix and no real shortcuts. If you do want to listen to someone find someone trustworthy who is very open and transparent with their content.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio The breakthrough for me came when I went for local guitar lessons a few weeks ago, but this guy also works as a mastering engineer... so I played him a few of my tracks and he immediately cringed up and pointed out they were way too saturated in the 4-8k range, far too bright... and that was because I'd piled on Abbey Road TG presets assuming they all did something positive, Aphex exciters, Manny this and CLA that, I'd been conditioned to believe that the raw recorded signal was too vanilla and all these plugins are needed to "sculpt" a sound in a way, that to get the studio sound you need all this kit. But yea, hundreds of hours of trial and error led me around the houses and back to almost a completely unprocessed track. Very minor EQ, single 2A compressor and deesser, and the rest is money down the drain! It's been a very frustrating 12 months but I guess it's been a positive learning curve, I just wish I'd seen a video from someone saying to not listen to all this noise. I could make that video myself but popularity is more credible than the truth.
@Reginaldborington endorsed plugins are one to watch out for. The endorsing engineer may use them on screen and in videos but does he use them as their go to plugin. 99% of the time the answer is no.
Ya I can see what your saying, we are limited to the specific tools we use to mix and master. So you can only make so many tools. It’s been a bunch of years so we aren’t going to get to many new ideas of tools.
I’ve got all the plugins I’ll ever need. I don’t use most of them. Unless something else comes out like soothe I’ll save money and spend it on hardware. I get more out of my ng bus comp and ng tube eq. You’re right they are phenomenal. Analog knocks plugins out of the park 😊
If these units were priced at the same price point as plugins, I think everyone would be using hardware like this over plugins. But that's never going to happen for obvious reasons. I definitely think the hybrid digital control with analogue sound option is the future.
100% on point... no one is INNOVATING... or let's talk about how many flipping neve, ssl, api, amek, etc clone/model/whatever plugins there are. The industry does NOT need another one of the same anything. Its just a money grab for these "developers".
I dont have your skills or experience but definitely i share this opinion. Over the psycho accoustic effect, a plugin doctor analysis is often extremely disappointing even on very famous plugin brands. That said, there still are exception such as shaperbox or baby audio but yes in the ocean of plugins, they are féw to really deserve usage.
Clearly, the market is - (clears throat) - oversaturated. Thus, you get diminishing returns all around. And yes, there will need to be more "outside of the box" thinking and new developments in the technology itself (i.e. faster processors, new processors, new formats, etc.). In fact, one company that did intrigue me was GPU Audio and it was because they were making plugins that used the graphics card as opposed to the native processor. As graphic cards are more powerful than the one for the computer, that opens up more possibilities for signal processing. It will even extend the useful life of the laptop as the graphics card is the more powerful part of it anyway. But I think this was back in 2020 or so. I think the best thing developers can do is CTFD. If an established one, work with the ones that are already there and maintain those instead of just coming up with the "latest thing". For the newcomers or aspiring ones, work harder to find a better entry point into the market. And yeah, EQ = EQ = EQ = EQ and compressor = compressor = compressor = compressor. Admittedly, the ones that have intrigued me are more creative ones or ones that enhance the workflow (i.e. put three or more ones into one and call it "vocal processor" or "instrument processor"). But otherwise, meh.
Acustica, Kiive, Make Believe Studios & Pulsar Modular are all fantastic. Acustica Ocean is something completely different to any hardware & great piece of gear. Pulsar Modular the same, most of them aren't modeled on anything & sound better than any hardware IMO
I have a number of them. Some are interesting. I have some of the hardware they sampled. I was a bit shocked how far the sound of the plugins was removed from the hardware, I expected it to be closer
It’s a heavily saturated market where technology has diffused across the spectrum and competition has created significant price compression. Hopefully things will equalize over the next few years and the absurd amount of emulations will phase out and the transient manufacturers with sub quality will disappear. But seriously, lots of good tools for cheap doesn’t suck. You don’t need all the tools, just get good ones for what you need and learn them inside and out, and ignore the rest. Like anything else. Ultimately your problem is only a problem from a certain perspective. Cheers.
In terms of Eq's and Dynamic processors it definitely rings true, there are too many of the same thing and the marketing is irritating to say the least, It's all gimmicks and quick fix BS mostly. Under the surface there are some gems and good innovations, often they are kinda slept on though and the mediocre stuff is over hyped. It's a problem of blame the consumer as well, as plenty of us are buying it and then never using it lmfao, it's a thing that the companies know and that's why it continues to happen.
Maybe the plugin manufacturers will find the way to use AI to recreate the hardware behaviour 100%. AI will test the hardware using thousands of different signals and learning how to recreate it better than humans will ever be able to. And this new technology will take over the whole market
Your video made me laugh. It was like seeing myself a couple of weeks ago; tired, disappointed in the plugins,... Finally, I was spending more time looking for plugins that don't sound too bad (not even close to HW) than making music. Finally, I decided to 1) leave no more than 3 equalizers and compressors and the rest in the trash; 2) maximum once a month I will review new plugins, and without expectations!!! 3) Save all that money and maybe buy a good compressor!!! 4) Run all my audio tracks through my Manley Core, it sounds much better and I don't have to look at screens or use time (it makes me tired, I hate them),... Now I'm trying George Massenburg's plugins, I wish you could try them and do a review and compare them with some HW, there is a 30-day demo. A hug. P.S. With what you point out in the video you could make a video with your updated list of the plugins that you really use due to their good quality.
At one point in this video you see me huff and light drain from my eyes. That was genuine disappointment as I don't want this to be the case. I posted a video a month or so ago talking about the 20 plugins I use on a regular basis. There's maybe 1 that I've added to that list since then. And that's split eq. I've gone back to using that after this video. I'd completely forgotten how good it was.
@patricioandres2562 I do really like it. It's a great EQ. There's nothing not to like about it. I'm just at this stage with EQ where I can achieve every curve I want with EQ in pro Q3.
Acustica is making very good sounding plugins at the expense of your CPU and to me that is the development. Getting that level of detail and quality at higher efficiency. Yes we have better CPUs but then we are killing them with the power hungry "accurate" modeling. I know DSP was the thing to combat the CPU drain and maybe we get into a 2.0 version of that. A universal DSP instead of brand specific DSP? I don't think there is a different EQ to take things to the next level. The real battle is how can we model physical hardware into the digital world.
@marksaxon this is my thoughts exactly. A universal DSP that we can have like UAD that can power plugins. Imagine DSP designed specifically for developers to develop to that makes usage more efficient. Then if you need more DSP you buy another DSP box.
With how cheap UAD plugins are now and all the deals with every company I'm getting a bit scared a lot of them are going to start going under? UAD plugs ware always above the £100 mark I thought and now they're as low as £30 plus with them going native they must be getting desperate for cash?
100% agree. I bet they are still making bank, though. My view of UAD as a premium brand change once they went native. I always had this view of their plugins as DSP modelled plugins that were superior to others. Turns out no difference to others and could be run natively all this time. They lost their unique selling point once going native.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio I heard through another mastering engineer I know that apparently they ran out of the DSP chips and we’re going to struggle to get enough hardware out hence the change to native. Whether that’s true or not I don’t know.
The plugin market is really saturated it’s like a candy store for kids. I use some but less is more imo. Only thing I missed was a really good reverb and went for the Liquid Sonics reverb which does the trick for me other than that it’s all hardware I’m investing in.
That's my reverb of choice. I see new reverbs coming out priced at £299 and I'm thinking, what does this reverb do liquid sonics doesn't. And the answer is nothing. The only reverb I feel I'd want to buy is some IR related, which gives you different types of rooms. But even then that reverb is only for a specific purpose.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Yeah I like it because it just works for me in a mix, I did seven different mixes to try somethings out and the vocals with the Liquid Sonics sounded the best so I decided to get it. Other than that I still use outboard effects but for doing pre-listen mixes of recorded material I needed something for in the box use so I can do a fast premix for the band to listen to their songs.
well they're tools. think of it like a drill or a saw. yea there's new models of that stuff coming out but at the end of the day they're still just a drill or a saw and they do the same exact thing
At last someone has woke up and smelt the coffee . Less emphasis on an over saturated plugin market that just want's your dosh, and more emphasis on making and producing music. There's nothing wrong with stock plugins, nothing at all. I stopped using Waves plugins years ago. Software delevopment is a business that needs to make money , how elsd but to keep updating all the time. Sound engineering is a complicated process , and always will be. Sample libraries are the same , how many pianos do we need. Also, it all depends on your computers processing power , what audio setup you have and how good your ears are. Stick to Red Book standards you can't go wrong.
There needs to be a new VST4 standard that works with a hardware box full of transistors etc (like the McDSP) but at a much affordable price connected via USB-c. This needs to be a universal standard
I've been speaking with a couple of different companies about this. You have exactly the same vision as me. A box like the mcdsp that is open to any plugin company to develop a plugin that works with it. Pass through analogue transformers, op amps etc and bring digital plugins to life. I don't see this being far off. Like how UAD was branded but instead of DSP we have real hardware. I know myself how huge a benefit it is to pass plugins through my Burl converters.
@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY it's doable. Mcdsp are already doing it with their plugins, but it's not open to everyone to develop for because of how intricate it is I guess to get a plugin developed for it. I'm optimistic that this will be a thing within the next few years.
With the utmost respect @8:31 seems to me a huge contradiction to the very first sentence you uttered in this video. You may have the potential to add more boredom than YOU are actually feeling with your contribution in addition of YOUR plugin development in this agreed saturated market. Saying 'building exactly what we want it' as a suggested 'difference' holds no water to the rest of your comments in my humble opinion, as that is as you alluded 'the same plugin in a different skin' but I understand your opinion...up to a point. Just my two penneth. Peace
We've developed plugins for us to use, that are unique to the way we work and the workflow we use. We may sell them, we may not. We may give them away for free. We haven't decided yet. The big difference is we as engineers build what we need. Not what sells. Plugin companies build what will make them money. Not what they need in their studio. So we approach plugin development different. Do you think a company like Native instruments are thinking what would the 1% of Dolby Atmos mastering engineers need let's make something great for them. No they are thinking what do the 99% of producers need that will keep the shareholders happy. We think very different.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Okay, so let me get this right You're developing plugins, an entity that you clearly state you are bored with, to make them unique to the way YOU work [I'm assuming the 'you' are collectively Audio Animal Studio and fellow mastering engineers, forgive me if I'm wrong on any count.] So whether you sell them or you don't wouldn't we as your perspective customers have to adapt to the way you work in order to have a 'unique' perspective of the plugins you're making I agree that there are some plug-in build what they will make them money, but not all In truth I would go so far as to suggest that buying a decent DAW negates the need for third party plugins, but as you and I truly knows there is a market for them. It is monumentally easy to be bored of plugins that one may get for free, week in week out, and if I may be so bold I would suggest you have bought a few of your plugins in your lifetime that you no longer use forgive me if you're alluded to that point already. Those said plugins that you yourself said and thought they were great to begin with but now are gathering dust in your plugin folder, which proved the sales pitch worked for you to part with your hard earned to find that out... We've all been there... Developers plugging companies and their customers felt at one point or Another that certain plugins were 'needed' when in reality in the 75% of cases the stock plugins in your DAW will more than suffice So I ask you this genuine question, what is your [AAS] approach to plug in development that is different from the plethora of plugin developers out there. I really want to know if only to get an insight The Native Instruments Dolby Atmos question is kind of lost on me simply because i'm not that invested in either, even though my DAW of choice Cubase, Wavelab and Spectralayers accommodates the latter in your question. It's funny how you equate 1% of Dolby Atmos mastering engineers and the other 99% of just producers 'needs' that will keep the shareholders happy, is a bit of a broad brush stroke, but I digress. So I ask again what is your insight that makes you think different, please share because I think it will benefit us all Thanks for your time and dialogue my brother.....peace
With anything we're developing we look at it from a user perspective as we are building them for our use. I look at what is missing from what I already have. This is how I came up with the idea for the Hendy Amps Michelangelo XL EQ and had that built. Because this piece of hardware did not exist in the analogue domain. Same principle with plugins. What is missing, what hasn't been created. What do I do out the box I wish I could do in the box that hasn't yet been done. I'm bored of plugin emulations. Plugin emulations have limitations and what we should be doing in the box is utilising the ability to do things we can't do out the box. I love plugins like FabFilter Pro Q3 but there are also things I dislike about it. With what I build for myself I want the plugin to be built for me. Think of it like this, you are buying a house. You look at all these different houses. You like a few of them but ultimately you would ideally change a few things more to your taste. Now imagine you buy a plot of land and build your own house exactly as you want it. Similar principle here. We want to build plugins for us that are built exactly as we want them.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Now you're talking hardware. Well from a personal standpoint I'm not that fortunate to have the resources to make hardware, but I truly appreciate the process and appreciate the reasoning behind it. I'm simply coming from the old school of recording thru different eras as a 60 year old musician from analogue to digital to hybrid music production recording/mixing/mastering and being energised thru each era. Don't get me wrong, I get your opinion 100% but our industry is ever perpetual, what if AI could optimally reproduce your hardware and on top of that make it more cheaper....not that much of a pipe dream at the rate AI is entrenched in the music production world as it is. I am simply emboldened in the knowledge that whether you use Pro Q3 or I use a plugin emulation..music wins. Thanks for listening. Happy mastering brother. Peace
@lloydbrownmusic neither do I have the resources or knowledge to create hardware but I worked with a company that does. I come from the real user perspective of having an idea based on my needs. Then I need people around me skilled in their area who can build my vision. Same goes for plugin development.
Same here, until plugins will give the dimension and warmth that analog gear there will be no excitement. I always go back to the fab plugins so I decided not to waste my time anymore with all these suppose “game changer” plugins.🤙🏼
@quantika72 for me the excitement comes from plugins that can do something that hardware can't. Plugins that are adaptive in real-time like soothe 2 or gullfoss.
I started a year ago, no more money to plugins. Even premium plug-ins wont resell for pennies. I spend my money on upgrading all my HW with linear power supplies. Super silent.
I especially feel this way about analog emulation plugins. Such a dead horse. Plugins are really at their best when they're not trying to emulate hardware, and I think they should be leaning into this more, instead of trying to supplant hardware (spoiler alert: this is NEVER going to happen xD).
See, that's what saddens me about the plugin market. I started buying plugins maybe 20 years ago. Some on a CD installer. It was really exciting. UAD bringing out the first plugin emulation I'd seen and getting really excited for plugin emulations. If after 2 years your bored of plugins, that's really saying something.
I wrote to another TH-cam channel about a year ago asking why we need a review of yet another 'glue' compressor. Surely there's enough of those, same for Minimoog emulations etc...Interesting however, your review of the SPL PQ says that the hardware and plugin sound exactly the same (not so for the SPL IRON), and now your saying they don't. I'm not saying that you are being disingenuous - perhaps your experience has developed and you've moved on sonically.
Opinions change over time. EQs capture the curves in the hardware almost identically. Making them sound the same and respond the same is relatively easy. The difference is apparent when you listen to the stereo image and overall tone of the analogue unit. So it's very possible to sound the same but also sound very sterile and digital.
@higltypig there are now more modern paintings and digital artwork that doesn't use a paint brush. In terms of painting and decorating there's now rollers that get the job done 10 times fast with a better finish. There's also paint sprayers that get the job done 100 times quicker with a better finish. So there's quite a few advancements in paint brushes.
So many options, now you can leave toxic software companies. If a company tries to strong arm me into a subscription or has crazy authorization schemes then I’m leaving. It feels great.
If you look closely there is a huge Avid S4 console directly behind me. This is a digital console designed to control digital plugins and DAW control. I may be surrounded by hardware but trust me you don't buy an Avid S4 console if you don't like using plugins. It's not an analogue console if that's what you both thought.
I nearly didn't post this video. But then I thought nothing is going to stop me telling the truth and saying what I truly feel. Hopefully it will push developers to build something new and exciting.
I miss Image-Line and Native Instrument golden days, where they would make innovative, creative stuff like absynth, reaktor, harmor, drumaxx, gross beat, maximus, vocodex… skip to nowadays… NI what have you got, more maschine presets? Imageline, you? Yet another substractive synth, this one copies the Juno-60, how original. Maybe Bitwig can shed some light will you? Oh, more EQs…
I feel the reason for this is these companies were once owned by people who had passion for the music industry and had a background in the music industry. Now these companies are owned by people who want to make profit. Just look at how innovative and forward thinking Plugin Alliance were over the past 10 years. Native instruments bought them out and now they are neither innovative or forward thinking.
My mentor once told me, "One day you'll get tired of all the new stuff."
Now I just find what works, keep a small collection, keep an ear on the ground for the revolutionary stuff. Too much noise these days.
Facts
Real Talk
Exactly
Also most of the UAD studio modeled reverbs are actually wild. Specifically Capitol Chambers & Hitsville
Funny, I was thinking similar, I really do like the UAD reverbs. I don't have the Capitol Chambers, but the Hitsville is great
Heres what helped me from 100s of plugins and 100s of hours of production/mixing tips over 20 years:
Leave when your excited, never overwork, save your ears and keep a distance to your productions/mixes. Dont zoom in on individual elements too much, "fixing" out of context details will just ruin your overall product in the end. Know a few plugins really well, listen on as many different speakers/headphones you can if you cant own really expensive ones.
Thats all I can think of actually? Oh, and running every other day did help me more then any new plugin I can think of since Waves L2 and UA Pultec. Maybe Im lazy....
Being bored with plugins is a fantastic place to be in. Free’s up some excitement for making better music ❤
Soothe & Spiff are fire. Split EQ as well. Pretty revolutionary imo
Totally, but those are all also 3+ years old. I think he's talking about stuff coming out super recently, In which case, I echo that sentiment
I've been on a GAS bender for different emulations and to be honest, I felt that most of them even made mixes sound worse. They are not as precise and fast to be honest. Just an hour ago I was trying to cut certain frequency in a kick drum and used an SSL emulation, and it did what I needed it to do, but then I opened up a Pro-Q3, and I were able to cut this annoying frequency faster and with more precision (because I didn't need to turn three different knobs with a mouse, which just slows you down), and the kick sounded better. And all I needed just a small cut with narrow Q at 113 Hz and that's about it. I didn't need any additional saturation or anything special from the plugin, I didn't need some weird analog EQ curve or automatic AI thing. And that was more exciting than any new emulation or crazy machine learning automatic plugin.
Thank you for turning us on to so much great hardware, and doing the work
It's as much for me as it is for for everyone else. I like to do these tests and reviews for my own curiosity too. Before using a piece of gear I want to know it inside and out.
I’m in the same boat as you completely. Been obsessed with it for 10 years and spent so much but there just is no interest for me either. You hit the nail on the head!
I feel similarly. But it's a good thing: it means we finally have enough can can focus in using them rather than trying to find the perfect plugin.
2 years and no plugins for me. I might bite on UAD’s sale with a $25 coupon for the Ampex. If you add up the amount of money you’ve spent on “emulating plugins,” you could’ve purchased something analog in that realm.
For example, all the SSL plugins I’ve bought over the years, I could have purchased the SSL 611 eq’s.
Exactly I totally agree with you
The only plugins i love using outside of the digital tools (proQ etc) are UAD and Acustica as they have really pleasing box tones/saturation. Good if you don't have much analogue gear.
I've been using Two Radial Guitar pedal re-amp units and experimenting with guitar pedals. It's a pain buying two pedals for the stereo field but the results have been interesting. It's main born out of wanting to find something new.
Totally agree. Also the absolute worst investment you can make. Basically zero resell value
Yeah. I've got hundreds if not thousands of plugins that are never used. At the time, they seemed better than what I was previously using, but in reality I think it's was just the GUI change that maybe inspired me.
First 2 months in my life I haven't bought any more plugins.. Saving for hardware.
Your video is spot on and at the right moment in time
I’m starting to feel the same way, where also it seems the “buzz” is moreso triggered by the change in GUI rather the the sound itself. The realization that the mind can play tricks on our eyes based on what we perceive the difference is under the influence of the graphic design variation. Once you go hardware, the sonic threshold established is hard to topple.
I got into a mode of accumulating plugins chasing after a sonic imprint that was the equivalent of analog, only to discover “why” when I already have analog. Unless it’s doing something that’s unique to digital, it’s just another set of pounds into the vst money pit.
The thing with hardware is that every component makes a difference. Every unit is slightly different even when built in the same production line at the same factory. I did a video yesterday on why I use 8 different EQs and how they all sound different and fit a unique purpose. I can't say the same for plugin EQs.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio There are several plugins out there where the developer states they model at the component level, but unless we can investigate them in JUCE and not just rely on plugin doctor, assume it’s just a digital waveshaper wrapped in a new layout.
There is one new tech that is interesting though you should look into NAM samples in Genome. It’s like the next step up from convolution sampling. It’s early on and still developing but it sounds a bit better than algo-based plugs.
@Sance21 the more we build in JUCE the more we realise how easy it is to create plugins that sound the same as everything else on the market. Trying to work out how to make something different. Something that will excite me. I've taken ideas to multiple plugin manufacturers as I'd rather them develop something new and unique. Just a waiting game to see if they can develop it.
Completely agree. I’ve scaled down to a relatively small collection of plugins that work for me and I’m done searching for the next new thing. If something really revolutionary comes along then I’ll hear about it through the grapevine and I’ll check it out then. But unless it is actually revolutionary in some meaningful way, then I’m not interested anymore.
Exactly the same position I'm in.
I've purchased 1 new plugin in the last 5 or 6 years and it was the Waves WLM Loudness Meter. I use about 10 plugins regularly and the rest were a complete waste of cash. My favourite thing is when you purchase a plugin for $300 and 2 years later it's selling for $30.
After watching your vids and seeing you use all this tasty analog gear i've came to realize that plugins are great for subtractive work & creative effects ... the real umphh is coming from your analog gear ( a domain i need to delve into )
💯 Thanks for the sharing the knowledge 🙌
I hear you. I recently stopped buying plugins and am now acquiring hardware and could not be happier with the results. I still like digital plugins like fab filter as well for fixing issues but I’m getting all of the mojo from inductors, transformers and tubes. Just magic.
Exactly what I started to feel few months ago. I just went to a point where I think no one need new plugins atm.
I kinda like the workflow of certains plugins because of specific curves or path, but yeah nothing new interesting.
Even the new transient/sustain on Ozone or Split Eq, it’s great but I never had a true opportunity to say « yeah I really needed that on this master », even on a mix.
Yeah, split EQ was great when it released. That one excited me a lot for a good few months. Then I used it less and less. And now it sits in the unused folder.
If more digital recallable gear comes out from outstanding companies like Wes Audio that are pushing the envelope - even their customer service is top notch. I’ll keep slowly buying more
100% I really think that digital recall inside analogue gear is the way forward. It gives us the best of both worlds.
Try the Kirchoff instead of pro Q3. Same GUI, BUT it can perform in 128 bits instead of 64 bits. There is a button in the top right corner Labeled 117 bits. When enabled in conjunction with the 2x oversampling mode and mixed phase (natural phase in bass, linear phase in mids and highs), you get the essence of amazing digital transparency with 0 bloom or harshness. In mastering it's shocking how better it sounds compared to Pro-Q3, with again the same exact GUI. Hope you will give it a try since it's included in your Plugin Alliance subscription.
Hey man, I absolutely get this feeling. And its a bit depressing because I too really enjoyed hearing about new products, can’t quite remember what killed it off…oh yeah, I remember…hardware.
Actually, although you only touched on it, I am excited by and just bought the izotope MSP 6.5.
I was allergic to the idea of this eco system, but accidentally got into it when looking to get RX.
Now, the AI component is not perfect, but I like it. And, the additional tools like sculpter and the sidechain plug are really creative aiding and handy for moving a project from unmixed to a state, that I’d probably reach just after lunch, before I realised I was over doing everything, except in about 7.5 minutes.
To me, this is very exciting because I feel like its allowing me to try out ideas very quickly, even entire mix approaches. Even if this product still has away to go, there is nothing else like it.
To that end, its genuinely a different sort plugin(s) and that has to be a good thing in a world otherwise adding yet more EQs and Compressors to a rapidly growing, uninspiring pile of digital trash.
After 20 plus years mixing inside the box for Big Studio Hollywood audio post.. I have gone analog summing and 2buss / Mastering hardware. Never going back to all ITB. There is no comparison IMO implementing a hybrid system.
I'm glad I'm not alone. I too have every damn plugin that's worth its salt, and I use maybe 25 of them in total, leaving literally hundreds and hundreds unused. Software controlled hardware is the future in some ways but honestly, it's really just a convenience feature. 1's and 0's will likely never be as good as analog, and it will never be as enjoyable to interact with, that's for sure. Hybrid however with 1 foot in a1 foot out really has no equal in my opinion. It really comes down to workflow and if required to work in a mobile capacity is when plugins shine, temporarily. Then run everything though the hardware chain at home.
Totally agree. The more I use hardware with digital recall the more I feel I want more. I'd love a fully digitally recallable console.
Its funny how you have articulated my journey with plugins so well. There was a time I was really excited about the new stuff, until I realised that most of the new vst's just aren't that different or "better" than their competitors or what came before. My own research led me to agree with your statement that eq "emulations" capture the curves but not the actual feel / depth / richness of hardware. I am getting really tired of the false claims by plugin manufacturers that their emulations sound like the real thing. They just don't. I think you said it elsewhere that the plugins that do make sense are the ones that explore the digital realm to the fullest... like Soothe, Smart EQ, plugins with spectral side-chaining etc. Also, I do appreciate those manufacturers that have proper anti-aliasing in their plugin designs.
For me the power plugins have is giving me something I can have out the box. Combining the two to get the best of both worlds. Soothe and split EQ are prime examples. Nothing like them out the box. Same with plugins like Fabfilter pro Q3. The visual analyser gives you something you don't have out the box. Hardware emulations are nice but they don't sound the same and they limit their functionality in the box by trying to be something out the box.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Agreed! I mean, if plugins ever do get to sound as good as hardware, that would be amazing - and then I wouldn't mind if a plugin limits its functionality to match that of the hardware its emulating. But until then, lets be realistic about how they do actually sound. On the other hand, there are some things that can only be done in the box (Soothe, Split EQ) and THOSE plugins are pretty amazing and becoming indispensable. And for those of us who can't afford the hardware, we'll keep using plugins. But I have no illusions about the quality of the sound compared to high quality hardware
So funny because I've been feeling the same way for a while now. The last plugin that really blew my socks off was Soothe 2. I've also spent several thousand dollars on plugins only to use a handful of them regularly. Maybe some incredible AI tech will bring forth the next amazing plugin but for now, hardware gets the job done. Especially since the combination of Flock Audio Patch and Dangerous Liaison makes it so easy to use hardware like plugins.
I see you have the Sphere mic . What you think about it ? Thx for the video
It's brilliant. We don't run a recording studio so we don't have a huge mic locker. This gives us one a stereo mic with lots of different options and possibilities of how it sounds.
Are you still happy with Alkane?
I'm very much looking forward to Fabfilter PRO-C3.
Yeah, Alkane is still really good, and I'm still using it. Again, that's nothing new and really innovative. It's just great sound saturation.
Stopped buying plugins long ago. Now slowly building up a few hardware pieces. I want stuff that I actually own.
Totally agree with you, there's only so much plugins can do as far as sound is concerned. When I have the money the setup will be hybrid because no plugin can get that special feel/vibe. I forgot what company David Gnozzi Mentioned on his channel, there's a plugin company that is using the GUI in-part with the CPU processing power to created some revolutionary plugins, hopefully this encourages everyone to take note and start making some changes. Great Video
Yeah Marlon over at White Noise Studios here on TH-cam has talked about them, too; they are called GPU Audio. You're quite welcome, mate. That's the processor power to take off of the CPU, but that doesn't solve the ITB (bka in the box) 0s and 1s digital resonance versus tube-transformer-tape analog emulation with a limited subset of plugins ITB that actually do the latter.
I think digitally controlled hardware is the future of audio processing. It's getting so good.
Fair comment. Isn’t it, though, just stuff being pushed down the chain to very low marginal cost.
Like online music. Barriers to entry are low so there’s a lot of it and returns are low. This commoditisation flows through the chain.
The more I learn the better sound my mixes - sometimes I mix with Uad, sometimes with Waves, sometimes with stock plugins - and every mix sounds good (not great yet) - it doesnt matter. The decisions will always be more important than any plugin.
That might sound like a major shift in topic, but he thing is, we’re all making music, and we should worry less about the technical details and more about the issue of declining appreciation and attention for music in the media world. Everyone loves music, but no one acknowledges its monetary value. As long as this problem isn’t solved, AI products that make our work, like that of a mixing engineer, more efficient and profitable will become increasingly important. The upcoming plugins that can do things with the help of AI will give us new inspiration and allow us to focus again on what’s essential in music.
I am too... except Acustica Audio. That ones replaced all my UAD, Plugin alliance, Oeksound..
Algorithmic Plugins are much work and the result is not what I get nearly with AA or with real hardware.
Only some reverb, modulation, little helpers and delay plugins are great in the software world.
Ozone is not bad... but I tried Softube Flow and it’s the better thing.. software wise.
There still is a shocking difference between Acustica and hardware. Often it sounds nothing like the hardware
@@ignacedhont9816 True, but they seem to give that depth and tone of hardware more than most other plugins. Still not like the real thing tho
@@ignacedhont9816 You need to combine plugins, mate. No one plugin is a one-stop-chop shop to get the hardware sound. Depending on the plugins and the material, it can take you from 6 up to 14 plugins on your master bus to get that hardware sound. Overkill sometimes yes i'd agree, but it's doable and proper as the corrective end result.
I made more music when I had much less gear, I'm finding that having access to so many plugins, is something of a distraction at times.
Know what always beats plugins and hardware in production? A great song and performance. Always trumps any gear. No number 1 hit song was ever created where listeners pointed out that an 1176 or LA2A on vocals and SSL bus compressor on master bus made it a hit song
That is correct. However, I have heard mediocre songs become masterpieces because of the way they sonically sound.
Maybe it is also the subscription laziness on the developing side. Where there is a need to push out something. Which is then more important then make something convincing. Same can be said for adobe for instance.. and they can not even get their use of shortkeys aligned
Yeah you might be right there. Which is probably why UAD are drip feeding native plugins. A few every 3 months.
I feel the same. I've been using about 10 plugins for the past 2 years now including verbs and delays. Not gonna change anytime soon.
I just make music for fun so with a grain of salt... it's like we've forgotten what we're even looking for in a sound/mix. I could understand as a professional these are tools to improve workflow and results but to what end? The perfect bottom end, the perfect sidechain etc. Like this new eq, reverb, compressor is a game changer? Amazing records have been made for 60+ years now. Reinventing the wheel.
I realise I prefer broader strokes in my music, detailed this and that is not my style and I know some genres call for that.
Now I just want the most basic stuff that sounds good, not perfect.
The thing is, they already have your money. Young people or people new to the game will buy all the things you mentioned, they may someday feel this way, but until then.
Couldnt agree more, its been years since ive felt "excited" but a new plugin..the last time was the Weiss DS1, and I use it all the time. It sounds better than a LOT of itb compressors yet its a code from the 90's (!)...
So you're definitely right that a lot of similar algorithm must be used nowadays because, they all sound more of the same to my ears...
Airwindows are always doing interesting, different stuff - free, high quality and no GUI's
Most functional paradigms have been done to death. Only place to go is making them prettier and more (cpu) efficiency. Different is nice sometimes, but nothing is going to beat knowing the kit inside out.
I rarely get excited about plugins. It is great music that captures my interest. When a recorded performance rises above most of the dross that is put forth as "music" these days, I'm excited to use the plugins I already have, to make the mix the best it can be (or at least the best I can make it). Plugins are just a tool to get you to the really satisfying part - the music!
I couldn't agree any more with you... I used to be all over my promotional emails... All over the reviewer's videos... Couldn't wait to hear about the next new plugin release... Now I could care less. I feel like I have more than I could ever need and nothing even grabs my attention anymore.
Me too. I used to be on Facebook groups, sale groups, email mail outs etc. Now I'm just like yep that's another plugin of something I already have.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio 🤣
Here's a few that bring something new to the table: oeksound soothe, eventide split eq and physion, tone projects basslane pro & kelvin, uad sound city
I agree, what I like, however, is having several compressors, saturaters, clippers, tape for different flavors. It can be inspiring. But in general, the market is oversaturated with plugins.
I'm in the box and wouldn't trade it but I totally agree!!!!
Paul you said all. I’m glad this topic came up. I thought I was the only person feeling that way. I’m hoping that some of these plugins companies will try to incorporate the digital domain into some popular analog gears which are already in the market. For example, they can say send us your analog gears and we will built in the software to create the hybrid. Something like the WesAudio products. I wouldn’t mind sending all my analog gears 😂. Maybe WesAudio should start doing that for major analog gears companies.
It's a great idea, I just wonder how much cost would be involved.
I hit tipping point with plugins this week, not sure if you're going to mention this but Audio TH-camrs are pretty bad for this. I'm trying to get started but this is the most confusing and frustrating endeavour I've ever participated in. Every single TH-camr, in the pursuit of their next content piece, has the next big "THIS IS THE ONLY PLUGIN YOU'LL EVER NEED" video, or "THIS IS THE TRICK ALL THE PRODUCERS USE" and every time it's a new plugin, a new workflow, with the next TH-camr saying their one-button trick is all you need. This results in new comers being absolutely drowned in baloney, no idea what to do, you then try and adopt as many of these "hacks" as possible and ruin your track... then never understanding why because you've done what you were told.
Just look at your video recommendations on the right of the screen, at least 90% of them are "MUST KNOW TRICKS" or "INSTANTLY GET PERFECT SOUNDS" videos... it's infuriating. If it was that easy, if it's just a couple of plugins to get perfect sound then why are these guys boasting about their 20+ years experience in the business... have you been pressing 1 button for 20 years then?!
Let me tell you this as a fact. If there's a secret workflow or secret to the sound someone creates, they aren't sharing it with others on youtube. I share a lot on youtube, but I never share the secrets to obtaining my sound. That's my sound. You'll find this is similar to others, too. These videos annoy me too as they are factually incorrect and are click bait. There is no one plugin you'll ever need and there is no trick all producers use. My advice would be, trust nothing until you test the process for yourself and find out if it works for you.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Yea I've learned that over the last 12 months, but beginners don't have the knowledge or experience to know what works for them... they rely on the advice to guide them. You try and copy others who claim to know what they are doing, but you don't have an experienced enough ear to be satisfied that it's good enough. You always see the next video claiming this guy has what you're missing, so you add it, and it either makes zero difference or ruins your track. I'm 99% convinced that these guys use words like "tightening up the bottom end, add flavour to a vocal, vocal jumping out from a mix" when in fact absolutely nothing is actually happening... it's like they just say these things to make you feel like you aren't special enough to hear what they can!
I've ended up buying at least 50 Waves plugins already, each one came from some video claiming it'll add something special. SSL this on the master bus, Abbey Road that on the vocals, In the end after hundreds of hours, I've settled on using almost none of them.
@Reginaldborington yeah and the worst thing is this is at a cost to you to gain not a lot. These are all buzz words. The secret to removing mud from your mix is particular buzz word you hear a lot. A lot of people will say these things not even hearing what it is they are claiming. I hear it a lot in the comments for videos. We all perceive sound differently. Best advice for you would be a lot of trial and error. There's no real quick fix and no real shortcuts. If you do want to listen to someone find someone trustworthy who is very open and transparent with their content.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio The breakthrough for me came when I went for local guitar lessons a few weeks ago, but this guy also works as a mastering engineer... so I played him a few of my tracks and he immediately cringed up and pointed out they were way too saturated in the 4-8k range, far too bright... and that was because I'd piled on Abbey Road TG presets assuming they all did something positive, Aphex exciters, Manny this and CLA that, I'd been conditioned to believe that the raw recorded signal was too vanilla and all these plugins are needed to "sculpt" a sound in a way, that to get the studio sound you need all this kit. But yea, hundreds of hours of trial and error led me around the houses and back to almost a completely unprocessed track. Very minor EQ, single 2A compressor and deesser, and the rest is money down the drain!
It's been a very frustrating 12 months but I guess it's been a positive learning curve, I just wish I'd seen a video from someone saying to not listen to all this noise. I could make that video myself but popularity is more credible than the truth.
@Reginaldborington endorsed plugins are one to watch out for. The endorsing engineer may use them on screen and in videos but does he use them as their go to plugin. 99% of the time the answer is no.
Yes. I'm beginning to feel the same way.
I'm glad I'm not alone on this one
What about video on the most interesting and unique creative plugins
I have a list of interesting plugins, which I will do a video on.
Ya I can see what your saying, we are limited to the specific tools we use to mix and master. So you can only make so many tools. It’s been a bunch of years so we aren’t going to get to many new ideas of tools.
I just picked a company that has 80% of what I needed. Once you do that everything else becomes bloat ware unless it fills that 20%
I’ve got all the plugins I’ll ever need. I don’t use most of them. Unless something else comes out like soothe I’ll save money and spend it on hardware. I get more out of my ng bus comp and ng tube eq. You’re right they are phenomenal. Analog knocks plugins out of the park 😊
If these units were priced at the same price point as plugins, I think everyone would be using hardware like this over plugins. But that's never going to happen for obvious reasons. I definitely think the hybrid digital control with analogue sound option is the future.
Totally agree 🙏🏻
100% on point... no one is INNOVATING... or let's talk about how many flipping neve, ssl, api, amek, etc clone/model/whatever plugins there are. The industry does NOT need another one of the same anything. Its just a money grab for these "developers".
And each release claims to model the hardware better than the last one that claimed it was almost 1 for 1 identical.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio yep... I guess there's always another sucker who will believe the marketing... glad you are calling them out!
@@JamesArthurHurley I'm often that sucker
I dont have your skills or experience but definitely i share this opinion. Over the psycho accoustic effect, a plugin doctor analysis is often extremely disappointing even on very famous plugin brands. That said, there still are exception such as shaperbox or baby audio but yes in the ocean of plugins, they are féw to really deserve usage.
Clearly, the market is - (clears throat) - oversaturated. Thus, you get diminishing returns all around. And yes, there will need to be more "outside of the box" thinking and new developments in the technology itself (i.e. faster processors, new processors, new formats, etc.). In fact, one company that did intrigue me was GPU Audio and it was because they were making plugins that used the graphics card as opposed to the native processor. As graphic cards are more powerful than the one for the computer, that opens up more possibilities for signal processing. It will even extend the useful life of the laptop as the graphics card is the more powerful part of it anyway. But I think this was back in 2020 or so.
I think the best thing developers can do is CTFD. If an established one, work with the ones that are already there and maintain those instead of just coming up with the "latest thing". For the newcomers or aspiring ones, work harder to find a better entry point into the market. And yeah, EQ = EQ = EQ = EQ and compressor = compressor = compressor = compressor.
Admittedly, the ones that have intrigued me are more creative ones or ones that enhance the workflow (i.e. put three or more ones into one and call it "vocal processor" or "instrument processor"). But otherwise, meh.
In terms of inovative plugins in the last 6 years we have Soothe 2, Pro Q3, Bx_XL V3....
That's 3 out of at least 10,000+. I'd add split EQ and any plugin with stem separation in it.
I Absolutley 1000% agree!
Acustica, Kiive, Make Believe Studios & Pulsar Modular are all fantastic. Acustica Ocean is something completely different to any hardware & great piece of gear. Pulsar Modular the same, most of them aren't modeled on anything & sound better than any hardware IMO
I was wondering if you ever tried Acustica Audio eq's? Curious to hear what you think about those
I have a number of them. Some are interesting. I have some of the hardware they sampled. I was a bit shocked how far the sound of the plugins was removed from the hardware, I expected it to be closer
It’s a heavily saturated market where technology has diffused across the spectrum and competition has created significant price compression. Hopefully things will equalize over the next few years and the absurd amount of emulations will phase out and the transient manufacturers with sub quality will disappear.
But seriously, lots of good tools for cheap doesn’t suck. You don’t need all the tools, just get good ones for what you need and learn them inside and out, and ignore the rest. Like anything else.
Ultimately your problem is only a problem from a certain perspective. Cheers.
In terms of Eq's and Dynamic processors it definitely rings true, there are too many of the same thing and the marketing is irritating to say the least, It's all gimmicks and quick fix BS mostly. Under the surface there are some gems and good innovations, often they are kinda slept on though and the mediocre stuff is over hyped. It's a problem of blame the consumer as well, as plenty of us are buying it and then never using it lmfao, it's a thing that the companies know and that's why it continues to happen.
Maybe the plugin manufacturers will find the way to use AI to recreate the hardware behaviour 100%. AI will test the hardware using thousands of different signals and learning how to recreate it better than humans will ever be able to. And this new technology will take over the whole market
Your video made me laugh. It was like seeing myself a couple of weeks ago; tired, disappointed in the plugins,... Finally, I was spending more time looking for plugins that don't sound too bad (not even close to HW) than making music. Finally, I decided to 1) leave no more than 3 equalizers and compressors and the rest in the trash; 2) maximum once a month I will review new plugins, and without expectations!!! 3) Save all that money and maybe buy a good compressor!!! 4) Run all my audio tracks through my Manley Core, it sounds much better and I don't have to look at screens or use time (it makes me tired, I hate them),... Now I'm trying George Massenburg's plugins, I wish you could try them and do a review and compare them with some HW, there is a 30-day demo. A hug. P.S. With what you point out in the video you could make a video with your updated list of the plugins that you really use due to their good quality.
At one point in this video you see me huff and light drain from my eyes. That was genuine disappointment as I don't want this to be the case. I posted a video a month or so ago talking about the 20 plugins I use on a regular basis. There's maybe 1 that I've added to that list since then. And that's split eq. I've gone back to using that after this video. I'd completely forgotten how good it was.
Thanks Paul, a question: you didn't really like the Relabs Maselec, what's not on your list?
@patricioandres2562 I do really like it. It's a great EQ. There's nothing not to like about it. I'm just at this stage with EQ where I can achieve every curve I want with EQ in pro Q3.
Acustica is making very good sounding plugins at the expense of your CPU and to me that is the development. Getting that level of detail and quality at higher efficiency. Yes we have better CPUs but then we are killing them with the power hungry "accurate" modeling. I know DSP was the thing to combat the CPU drain and maybe we get into a 2.0 version of that. A universal DSP instead of brand specific DSP? I don't think there is a different EQ to take things to the next level. The real battle is how can we model physical hardware into the digital world.
@marksaxon this is my thoughts exactly. A universal DSP that we can have like UAD that can power plugins. Imagine DSP designed specifically for developers to develop to that makes usage more efficient. Then if you need more DSP you buy another DSP box.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Plus I wouldn’t have to upgrade my laptop as often. Lol.
@marksaxon it's a great idea I wish someone would run with.
With how cheap UAD plugins are now and all the deals with every company I'm getting a bit scared a lot of them are going to start going under? UAD plugs ware always above the £100 mark I thought and now they're as low as £30 plus with them going native they must be getting desperate for cash?
100% agree. I bet they are still making bank, though. My view of UAD as a premium brand change once they went native. I always had this view of their plugins as DSP modelled plugins that were superior to others. Turns out no difference to others and could be run natively all this time. They lost their unique selling point once going native.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio I heard through another mastering engineer I know that apparently they ran out of the DSP chips and we’re going to struggle to get enough hardware out hence the change to native. Whether that’s true or not I don’t know.
@@RVM2M interesting. Could be true. But they moved to that new chip fairly recently.
I haven’t been excited by plugins for the past 3 years.
The plugin market is really saturated it’s like a candy store for kids. I use some but less is more imo. Only thing I missed was a really good reverb and went for the Liquid Sonics reverb which does the trick for me other than that it’s all hardware I’m investing in.
That's my reverb of choice. I see new reverbs coming out priced at £299 and I'm thinking, what does this reverb do liquid sonics doesn't. And the answer is nothing. The only reverb I feel I'd want to buy is some IR related, which gives you different types of rooms. But even then that reverb is only for a specific purpose.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Yeah I like it because it just works for me in a mix, I did seven different mixes to try somethings out and the vocals with the Liquid Sonics sounded the best so I decided to get it. Other than that I still use outboard effects but for doing pre-listen mixes of recorded material I needed something for in the box use so I can do a fast premix for the band to listen to their songs.
well they're tools. think of it like a drill or a saw. yea there's new models of that stuff coming out but at the end of the day they're still just a drill or a saw and they do the same exact thing
We are in the era of try to do something that was created decades before instead to create something new
Totally agree. But what I can't work out is what can be created that's new.
At last someone has woke up and smelt the coffee . Less emphasis on an over saturated plugin market that just want's your dosh, and more emphasis on making and producing music. There's nothing wrong with stock plugins, nothing at all. I stopped using Waves plugins years ago. Software delevopment is a business that needs to make money , how elsd but to keep updating all the time. Sound engineering is a complicated process , and always will be. Sample libraries are the same , how many pianos do we need. Also, it all depends on your computers processing power , what audio setup you have and how good your ears are. Stick to Red Book standards you can't go wrong.
How plugins react to automations (digital artifacts, accuracy), CPU consumption and stability are where I judge the quality of a plugin today.
There needs to be a new VST4 standard that works with a hardware box full of transistors etc (like the McDSP) but at a much affordable price connected via USB-c. This needs to be a universal standard
I've been speaking with a couple of different companies about this. You have exactly the same vision as me. A box like the mcdsp that is open to any plugin company to develop a plugin that works with it. Pass through analogue transformers, op amps etc and bring digital plugins to life. I don't see this being far off. Like how UAD was branded but instead of DSP we have real hardware. I know myself how huge a benefit it is to pass plugins through my Burl converters.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio yes 100%!
This is the most optimistic thing the OP video author has said about this awry of a topic thus far.
@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY it's doable. Mcdsp are already doing it with their plugins, but it's not open to everyone to develop for because of how intricate it is I guess to get a plugin developed for it. I'm optimistic that this will be a thing within the next few years.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio kool kool. THanks for responding, and yes, I second what you had said.
With the utmost respect @8:31 seems to me a huge contradiction to the very first sentence you uttered in this video. You may have the potential to add more boredom than YOU are actually feeling with your contribution in addition of YOUR plugin development in this agreed saturated market. Saying 'building exactly what we want it' as a suggested 'difference' holds no water to the rest of your comments in my humble opinion, as that is as you alluded 'the same plugin in a different skin' but I understand your opinion...up to a point. Just my two penneth. Peace
We've developed plugins for us to use, that are unique to the way we work and the workflow we use. We may sell them, we may not. We may give them away for free. We haven't decided yet. The big difference is we as engineers build what we need. Not what sells. Plugin companies build what will make them money. Not what they need in their studio. So we approach plugin development different. Do you think a company like Native instruments are thinking what would the 1% of Dolby Atmos mastering engineers need let's make something great for them. No they are thinking what do the 99% of producers need that will keep the shareholders happy. We think very different.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Okay, so let me get this right
You're developing plugins, an entity that you clearly state you are bored with, to make them unique to the way YOU work
[I'm assuming the 'you' are collectively Audio Animal Studio and fellow mastering engineers, forgive me if I'm wrong on any count.] So whether you sell them or you don't wouldn't we as your perspective customers have to adapt to the way you work in order to have a 'unique' perspective of the plugins you're making
I agree that there are some plug-in build what they will make them money, but not all
In truth I would go so far as to suggest that buying a decent DAW negates the need for third party plugins, but as you and I truly knows there is a market for them.
It is monumentally easy to be bored of plugins that one may get for free, week in week out, and if I may be so bold I would suggest you have bought a few of your plugins in your lifetime that you no longer use forgive me if you're alluded to that point already. Those said plugins that you yourself said and thought they were great to begin with but now are gathering dust in your plugin folder, which proved the sales pitch worked for you to part with your hard earned to find that out... We've all been there... Developers plugging companies and their customers felt at one point or Another that certain plugins were 'needed' when in reality in the 75% of cases the stock plugins in your DAW will more than suffice
So I ask you this genuine question, what is your [AAS] approach to plug in development that is different from the plethora of plugin developers out there. I really want to know if only to get an insight
The Native Instruments Dolby Atmos question is kind of lost on me simply because i'm not that invested in either, even though my DAW of choice Cubase, Wavelab and Spectralayers accommodates the latter in your question.
It's funny how you equate 1% of Dolby Atmos mastering engineers and the other 99% of just producers 'needs' that will keep the shareholders happy, is a bit of a broad brush stroke, but I digress.
So I ask again what is your insight that makes you think different, please share because I think it will benefit us all
Thanks for your time and dialogue my brother.....peace
With anything we're developing we look at it from a user perspective as we are building them for our use. I look at what is missing from what I already have. This is how I came up with the idea for the Hendy Amps Michelangelo XL EQ and had that built. Because this piece of hardware did not exist in the analogue domain. Same principle with plugins. What is missing, what hasn't been created. What do I do out the box I wish I could do in the box that hasn't yet been done. I'm bored of plugin emulations. Plugin emulations have limitations and what we should be doing in the box is utilising the ability to do things we can't do out the box. I love plugins like FabFilter Pro Q3 but there are also things I dislike about it. With what I build for myself I want the plugin to be built for me. Think of it like this, you are buying a house. You look at all these different houses. You like a few of them but ultimately you would ideally change a few things more to your taste. Now imagine you buy a plot of land and build your own house exactly as you want it. Similar principle here. We want to build plugins for us that are built exactly as we want them.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Now you're talking hardware. Well from a personal standpoint I'm not that fortunate to have the resources to make hardware, but I truly appreciate the process and appreciate the reasoning behind it.
I'm simply coming from the old school of recording thru different eras as a 60 year old musician from analogue to digital to hybrid music production recording/mixing/mastering and being energised thru each era.
Don't get me wrong, I get your opinion 100% but our industry is ever perpetual, what if AI could optimally reproduce your hardware and on top of that make it more cheaper....not that much of a pipe dream at the rate AI is entrenched in the music production world as it is.
I am simply emboldened in the knowledge that whether you use Pro Q3 or I use a plugin emulation..music wins. Thanks for listening. Happy mastering brother. Peace
@lloydbrownmusic neither do I have the resources or knowledge to create hardware but I worked with a company that does. I come from the real user perspective of having an idea based on my needs. Then I need people around me skilled in their area who can build my vision. Same goes for plugin development.
Same here, until plugins will give the dimension and warmth that analog gear there will be no excitement. I always go back to the fab plugins so I decided not to waste my time anymore with all these suppose “game changer” plugins.🤙🏼
@quantika72 for me the excitement comes from plugins that can do something that hardware can't. Plugins that are adaptive in real-time like soothe 2 or gullfoss.
I started a year ago, no more money to plugins. Even premium plug-ins wont resell for pennies. I spend my money on upgrading all my HW with linear power supplies. Super silent.
More we mix, less plugins we need.
So much agree
Plug-ins that can run at 192 kHz would be good start
You may oversample per plugin group inside of the REAPER DAW in versions 7 and up.
I especially feel this way about analog emulation plugins. Such a dead horse. Plugins are really at their best when they're not trying to emulate hardware, and I think they should be leaning into this more, instead of trying to supplant hardware (spoiler alert: this is NEVER going to happen xD).
The first guy to use a wheel was the first pop guy in history...
...everything after that is a new plugin...
Feel ya!
Yes Indeed.
i feel the same way and i’ve only started in 2022…
See, that's what saddens me about the plugin market. I started buying plugins maybe 20 years ago. Some on a CD installer. It was really exciting. UAD bringing out the first plugin emulation I'd seen and getting really excited for plugin emulations. If after 2 years your bored of plugins, that's really saying something.
Audio Animals evolve.
I wrote to another TH-cam channel about a year ago asking why we need a review of yet another 'glue' compressor. Surely there's enough of those, same for Minimoog emulations etc...Interesting however, your review of the SPL PQ says that the hardware and plugin sound exactly the same (not so for the SPL IRON), and now your saying they don't. I'm not saying that you are being disingenuous - perhaps your experience has developed and you've moved on sonically.
Opinions change over time. EQs capture the curves in the hardware almost identically. Making them sound the same and respond the same is relatively easy. The difference is apparent when you listen to the stereo image and overall tone of the analogue unit. So it's very possible to sound the same but also sound very sterile and digital.
it's time to get on with the job. People still paint despite a lack of revolutionary new brushes every week.
@higltypig there are now more modern paintings and digital artwork that doesn't use a paint brush. In terms of painting and decorating there's now rollers that get the job done 10 times fast with a better finish. There's also paint sprayers that get the job done 100 times quicker with a better finish. So there's quite a few advancements in paint brushes.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio haha well fair enough but you get the point
@higltypig yes I get your point and it is correct
So many options, now you can leave toxic software companies. If a company tries to strong arm me into a subscription or has crazy authorization schemes then I’m leaving. It feels great.
Feel the same way
This is the reason why i almost stopped buying new plug-in’s
I didn't expect anything less from someone who has that entire arsenal behind him. Don't stress...
Even though what he's saying is true, but I kept looking at him like "what is he supposed to say?"😂
If you look closely there is a huge Avid S4 console directly behind me. This is a digital console designed to control digital plugins and DAW control. I may be surrounded by hardware but trust me you don't buy an Avid S4 console if you don't like using plugins. It's not an analogue console if that's what you both thought.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Would be cool to do the same comparison but with hardware. 🤓
@@oconnellmastering this is on the list of videos to do.
Ballz of Steel 🔥Biggup P🎵
I nearly didn't post this video. But then I thought nothing is going to stop me telling the truth and saying what I truly feel. Hopefully it will push developers to build something new and exciting.
A dozen trusted plug ins are all anyone will ever need. Hot take
Seems like the VST3 protocol is the bottleneck for great innovation.
I miss Image-Line and Native Instrument golden days, where they would make innovative, creative stuff like absynth, reaktor, harmor, drumaxx, gross beat, maximus, vocodex…
skip to nowadays… NI what have you got, more maschine presets? Imageline, you? Yet another substractive synth, this one copies the Juno-60, how original. Maybe Bitwig can shed some light will you? Oh, more EQs…
I feel the reason for this is these companies were once owned by people who had passion for the music industry and had a background in the music industry. Now these companies are owned by people who want to make profit. Just look at how innovative and forward thinking Plugin Alliance were over the past 10 years. Native instruments bought them out and now they are neither innovative or forward thinking.