"Argh, not another speeding ticket, I'll fight it in court but I don't think their going to accept gotta go fast as a medical condition" - Sonic the Hedgehog
One of the best qoutes in sonic boom now heres another Sonic: "Well give it a chili dog" Tails: "I don't think it can eat solid food" Sonic: "Well put it in the blender" Knuckles: "Well if you say so" Sonic: "THE CHILI DOG NOT THE BABY!!!"💀☠☠
Actually relevant. Boom is an alternate timeline (non canon events, powers, power levels, but IDENTICAL laws of physics). So if Eggman proves string theory in Boom, it's proven in the main canon. With the lowest dimensionality of any string theory variant being 10D, This places Solaris (and thus Sonic) at 11D minimum. Guku, Schmoku, even ZENO's getting an L.
goku seeing sonic survive everything without a scratch with a single ring at his disposal im tired of this argument, so just stop it already, its obvious I was making a joke that yoy can get hit over and over again if you have a ring in the game, so he could just stall goku out with the I-Frames by picking the ring up every time he loses it
Guys I like Goku... but I think even Game Sonic has more of fighting chance than people give him credit for. Like seriously. Even without archie comics bullshit he is ridiculous. Sonic doesn't slam, but the fight is actually pretty close. Let me cook real quick. If I get something wrong feel free to correct me. Just be nice about it pls. First a ground rules: 1 Goku gets access to the transformations that his current manga counterpart has. 2 Sonic gets access to super Sonic at the very least since it's a frequently used transformation and if goku gets all his transformations, Sonic should at least get one. 3 goku and sonic get to use items they consistently have access to. 4 all powers are fair game if they canonically can do it on their own without off limits items First up physical combat: Goku has the advantage in both strength and physical combat. Sonic has advantage in speed. One of Sonic more impressive speed feats involve him outrunning a black hole for an decent period of time. let's give him like 10 seconds. The other speed feat is how he escaped null space (a massive pocket dimension filled with nothing) simply by running fast enough to create his own exit portal (it was double boost but only sonic was capable of boosting there so this is still his feat). These feats would allow base Sonic to outspeed base goku and get the jump on him. Goku would have to really focus to predict sonics movements which he probably could. But Sonic has a danger sense. It was featured in frontiers but was actually a thing back in sonic cd. So goku needs to find a way to get past danger sense likely by baiting it and countering. Goku would have his power pole and his nimbus, so achieving probably isn't that hard. Next items/powers: Goku has access to ki attacks, and Sonic has chaos powers that don't require chaos emeralds as seen in frontiers. These should cancel each other out the most part. Both characters have extremely high density and resilience, so it's likely that their energy attacks will kill each other at least not in base forms. Sonic has access to elemental shields, the invincibility powerup and speed shoes to avoid and take attacks. Goku has access to senzu beans and can heal damage from attacks. Sonic has access to the chaos emeralds. Each emerald has a specific superpower. With 2 chaos emeralds he could attempt to time travel and refight goku with more experience or he could avoid the fight all together. Using the emeralds he can also seal entities inside objects or people. Using this he could attempt to seal goku away and win. Goku could try using the dragon balls to make a wish to benefit him or wish to end the fight entirely. If sonic were to use all seven emeralds then this where we get into transformations Transformations: Goku has access to all his super saiyan and super saiyan god transformations that increase his stats to exponential levels. He also has access to the ultra instinct transformations which allow him to move on instincts. It sorta acts as his danger sense. Sonic transformation is Super Sonic. Don't be fooled by this "super saiyan knockoff" his golden form can be on par with all gokus forms by itself. First, Super Sonic has infinite power to draw from. He can't use all of it in one attack (yet) but an infinite supply of power is an infinite supply of power. Secondly, Super Sonic us invincible. He's literally impervious to damage. To fight against this Goku must outlast Sonics super form as it does have a time limit. That itself is a challenge because Sonic can make his time limit longer by getting more rings. Super Sonic has faced enough gods that Super Sonic would definitely be on par with the transformations that make Goku a god. I know I mentioned more Sonic info but that's not because I'm glazing him. Its because I know more about Sonic than I do Goku despite liking Goku. That being said I'm not gonna say who I think wins because that's not the point. the point I will make is that this is a closer fight than what people make it out to be. Thank you for letting me cook
Super Sonic doesn’t have a time limit, that’s something that the games add on just to make it more challenging, also Super Sonic doesn’t require 50 rings to transform, I know this was mentioned to be a thing in Frontiers and Adventure and maybe 06, but Sonic characters always break the fourth wall during gameplay to give people instructions on how to progress, this is a common thing in the Boom games as well.
@unknwn6448 I mean... I know it's just a gameplay mechanic. I was just talking about "time limits" in case people still wanted to argue the time limit as a Canonical limitation when its not. Thanks for pointing this out though. Now I don't have to explain it.
@@hhminh1467well Sonic is mostly a hero for the exhilaration of it which I’m sure he and Goku could bond over. It was the eventual learning of what’s really at stake that keeps them as heroes but it all started with a passion for excitement through action.
How I scaled this fight years ago: Base Sonic in Generations and '06 passively withstands multiversal destruction on a scale relative to what Goku and Jiren shook. Base Sonic in Forces surpasses the Phantom Death Egg, which surpasses Infinite, who is stated > Time Eater, so Base Forces Sonic =/> Generations Super Sonic. In other words Even if you combine the Anime and Manga for DBS, Sonic in Base form stomps.
Time eater is beating the breaks off of Infinite what 💀 Sonic still wins but ya'll gotta stop taking these statements seriously and give us actual feats
As someone who grew up with the archie comics, its not relatable at all. Power aside, Archie Sonic is the most pure version of Sonic there is, even considering the... Penders writing...
@@TheDarkMaster312You telling me Archie Sonic? Pure? Oh sure. Totally, him hooking up with Fiona despite the fact that he knew Tails liked her, having an ego that dare i say is bigger than that of his game counterpart. Him legit getting angry with Eggman after seeing Sally roboticized saying that he never should've shown him a shred of mercy and a few other stuff that i'm not gonna remember right now. Yeah, no Archie Sonic is far from pure buddy. Learn your facts straight before speaking.
You know what's even funnier? With the cyloop Sonic could simply hitkill Goku, since this is an ability that forces the target's vulnerability, breaking their defenses. Against any enemy this is already a dangerous ability, but against Goku especially because with his guard down he fell even to a laser shot, and felt pain from a stone. MUI Goku would probably dodge this by instinct, but even Blue would probably fall
@@ashuraomega1000and goku? The saiyan who needed a ritual to be super saiyan god? The one who needed zeno to beat zamasu? The one who needed a genkidama, mastered ultrainstinct, android 17 and frieza only to beat jiren? And to be honest, most of anime fights are just like that, level up and power of friendship Edit: I don't want to be mean, but it's the true
@@ashuraomega1000 you're right, sonic had some problems with cyber corruption and needed to pass through challenges to be able to control it, goku literally needed 5 pure heart saiyans (if i remember correctly) to be able to fight against like 5% of bills power, and at least in the fight with the end was sonic the one who stabbed it, zeno literally erased zamasu without help from anybody
the fact bro downplayed sonic heavilly not even talking about the outer arguments or any frontier scaling shows how bad of a stomp this is ik goku has outer arguments as well but it pales in comparison to sonic
Goku can't even solo everyone in his own verse. He definitely can't solo other more powerful/buster verses if he isn't even the strongest in his own verse.
Good video, but the Super dimensional statement for Solaris is not saying Solaris is above a singular dimension. It’s saying that Solaris is above the concept of dimensions in general when you look at the Kanji in Japanese. And then for Maginaryworld, it’s a dimension which is formed from all the dreams in the Sonic multiverse. The Sonic multiverse contains NiGHTS into Dreams which has Jungian archetypes which easily get Sonic above anything Goku has ever done.
What is a jungian archetype?, ngl I hear concepts like abstracts, acasuality, platonic concepts, infinites beyond infinites, immeasurable, but I don’t get any explanation. What is a jungian archetype and how does that upscale sonic instead of say the string theory from doctor eggman?.
@ Jungian archetypes are kinda like platonic concepts. In the words of Jung himself they transcend ALL CATEGORIES of Space and Time and beyond all forms of mathematics.
"Super dimensional" means nothing without context. The definition of the term on its own just means "1+ dimensional" aka scaling 1 extra layer into dimensional power. Some other series' like Dragon Ball have described the interpretation of super dimensional to be "beyond dimensions" which could be scaled to outerversal but even that is a pretty shoddy argument because just like how being "beyond space and time" doesn't entail transcending all extensions of time and space, "beyond dimensions" would only mean transcending the dimensions which have actually been shown.
people compare uncanon versions of Sonic to canon DB-DBS Goku Goku’s most popular feat is destroying a Macrocosm but no one seems to understand Goku by fist clashing was releasing enough energy to that sent out shockwaves able to completely destroy the infinite universe. (A outerversal feat which prob makes current Goku boundless) Heaven and Hell which also are infinite but aren’t even connected with the universe. The world of the Kai’s and Maybe Beerus’s world which also aren’t even connected to the universe. As for durability the best example for non dragon ball fans to understand is to compare A weakened Goku in base form was able to survive and move around in a Black hole and destroy it?? But before this. Goku (pre-UI/pre limit break) got absolutely absorbed by a black hole the spirit bomb made. And still survived. also dead zone Goku survived a black hole soo…
@@jpnagaming7716 wait...did read his comment? Its a known fact that beerus and goku was almost destroyed the macrocosm but goku timed his attack to CANCEL OUT BEERUS'S ATTACK. Ngl that's only the tip of the iceberg since ya know that's beginning of SUPER.
@@ThatGuyEnd Nope. Goku & Beerus' fight didn't wipe out anything. They didn't even destroy nearby meteorites or planets. Literally nothing you said was a fact.
@@ThatGuyEnd Wow everything you said was wrong. One by Feats Goku has been hurt by bullets and tagged by regular human thugs Super Saiyan Blue Goku has been nearly killed by a regular laser Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta killed by Planet Explosion Goku and Vegeta have been easily knocked out by a regular stun gun Krillin held his own against Super Saiyan Blue Goku in a beam struggle and Android 18 could knock away both of their attacks Krillin later gets defeated by an Android Bee called Hachimaru in DBS Chapter 91. Hachimaru was heavily damaged by Krillin using a standard police gun to shoot the Android Bee down. Then Hachimaru proceeded to defeat Krillin afterwards. Goku needs a specialized suit to go to the center of the Earth. Because the heat is too much for his body. Beerus even says that Bulma sent Goku on a very dangerous mission for him. In Dragon Ball Super Episode 68. Goku needed a specialized suit from Bulma to survive the high temperatures in the core of the Earth. Even Beerus says that the core of the Earth is a dangerous place for Goku. Even Goku says that he would die if he went into the Core of Earth. Two Dragon Ball Inconsistencies Three its stated by Android 16 that a nuclear bomb is enough to kill Cell. Cell was clearly afraid of the Nuclear Bomb. So was Goku. Beerus & Goku's fight 1. Old kai is far too unreliable. Old Kai debunks himself when he says the shockwaves are getting stronger as they travel further Yet the shockwaves reached the sacred world of the kais yet that world was fine. The sacred world of the kais is the furthest point and its outside the seventh universe. Old Kai also wasn't even sure himself if it was capable of destroying the universe. Old kai is the same person who thought kid buu was stronger than Beerus Old Kai also thought that Beerus was scared of his power so he sealed him away. Implying Beerus is weaker than him. 2. Narrator. The narrator is not omniscient like many claim to be. He says that Beerus went full power during his first battle with Goku He has even been wrong in the past by saying how Saiyan Saga Nappa is boundless And then the Narrator claims that Namek Saga Frieza is capable of destroying the universe Four Its completely out of character for Goku to destroy the Sun. One because he is a morally good guy. Two He wouldn't destroy the source of Superman's power because Goku loves a challenge. This is the same guy who gave Cell a senzu bean for the sake of a fair battle against his own son. Super Saiyan 2 is pretty much an asspull. There was no real foreshadowing, implication or mention of a new transformation. Yes there were mentions of improving the Super Saiyan Transformation. But Super Vegeta is exactly just that. An improvement of the original SSJ1 that Goku used on Namek. Goku saying Gohan is stronger than him doesn't mean that a new transformation has been foreshadowed or implied. And no, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is not an improved version or an evolution of Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan severely damaged Cell with one punch while Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks was unable to damage Cell even when his strongest attacks landed. Mystic was definitely an asspull. Guru already unlocked Gohan's hidden potential in the Namek Arc. Mystic Gohan made no sense. Super Saiyan 3. The Transformation Goku supposedly trained for in other world. But Goku conveniently felt no need to mention learning a new transformation in other world when he first arrives on Earth despite being the kind of person to brag about his fighting achievements nor did he use this powerful transformation against Majin Vegeta. Despite the entire world being at stake and Goku having no motivation to fight Vegeta at all. Then there is Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta becoming stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku through the power of love & friendship because Beerus smacked Bulma. Vegeta literally pulled Super Saiyan Blue Evolution out of his ass. When there is zero foreshadowing or hints that such a transformation was even possible and it was never mentioned beforehand. And no its not like Super Saiyan Grade 2. One we actually saw the Saiyans training for Super Saiyan Grade 2. Meanwhile we never saw Vegeta train Super Saiyan Blue Evolution at all. Super Saiyan Grade 2 wasn’t even much of a transformation. Super Saiyan Grade 2 was the equivalent of bulking up your muscle mass to achieve a temporary boost in Physical Strength but severely reducing your speed & agility. Meanwhile Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is a massive power boost & new transformation out of nowhere with no downsides & no training or effort required for it to work. Then there is the Super Saiyan Rage asspull. Trunks literally gets a massive power boost out of nowhere to defeat Zamssu by essentially throwing a temper tantrum. The Beast Gohan & Orange Piccolo Asspulls. Piccolo getting his potential unlocked through Dragon Balls is lazy writing. But when Gamma 2 clearly defeats Piccolo even after Piccolo has his Full Potential unlocked. Piccolo gets another Transformation out of nowhere, “Orange Piccolo”. Meanwhile Gohan sees Piccolo getting beaten up by Cell Max then pulls another Transformation out of his ass by throwing another temper tantrum. No foreshadowing or set up beforehand. The Ultra Instinct Transformation was an asspull. No real foreshadowing or set up for the transformation. Ultra Instinct was set up as a frame of mind that you have to learn and develop over time. It was never implied, foreshadowed or stated to be a new type of transformation. Yes Ultra Instinct is mentioned before the Tournament of Power. But as shown from Beerus using it during the battle between the Gods of Destruction. It was implied to be a special state of mind. A type of spiritual enlightenment. Instead "Ultra Instinct" is just an overglorified "Super Saiyan White" that Goku pulls out of his ass at the last minute. This isn't Goku developing a new state of mind through enlightenment or changing the way he fights or learning more about controlling his ki & instincts. This is Goku pulling a new Super Saiyan Transformation out of his ass when he is about to lose to Jiren. The Ultra Ego Asspull that was never foreshadowed or set up whatsoever. Then there is True Ultra Instinct. Another garbage asspull out of nowhere which further contradicts how Ultra Instinct was previously established to work. Using the Daizenshuu in arguments. Dragon Ball Often on WWW when arguing DB, people will bring up the Daizenshuu to source their arguments. The Daizenshuu is often mistaken for being written by Toriyama himself. The Daizenshuu was written by Watanabe Akinori. Toriyama's involvement with the Daizenshuu was mainly just interviews and snippets of information. Toriyama did say he approved of the Daizenshuu , but that's mostly just work appreciation. The problem I have with the Daizenshuu is that it contradicts itself and the manga. Some examples: 50% Freeza is said to have a PL of 60,000,000 in the Daizenshuu Freeza 50%: 60 million While base Goku is said to have 3,000,000. Versus Freeza: 3 million A KKX20 would be 60,000,000 yet Freeza blocked Goku's kamehameha with one hand. Daizenshuu 4 says that Kid Boo uses IT. Kid Boo uses Kai Kai in the manga. Nappa being at 4000 contradicts the manga. Nappa: 4,000 Once Nappa calms down Goku says that it could take a while to beat Nappa He also had to use the Kaioken just to catch up to Nappa. The Daizenshuu also says Gohan doesn't use SSJ2 after he shows it to Kabito, but then later says he uses it against Dabura. Speaking of Gohan, the Daizenshuu claims Gohan is as strong as he was in the Cell Saga despite us being told he was weaker in the Manga. Daizenshuu 1 has Freeza's 3rd form listed as his second. Goku is not faster than time. Hit’s Power is both stated and shown not to work on people stronger than Hit. That is a mechanic of Hit’s power. It has nothing to do with Goku’s speed or a resistance to time manipulation. Jiren supposedly shaking the Null Realm does not make Goku omnipotent or 4D like toxic Dragon Ball Fanboys keep claiming. By that logic Kenpachi, Acnologia & Kaguya are omnipotent as well for creating and destroying dimensions that are also infinite. Another problem with the Daizenshuu is that it also has movie, filler and special characters. Planets in Dragon Ball have extremely inconsistent sizes, some have been shown to even be building sized Heaven being equal the size of the universe is contradicted by actual guides and canon itself.
and the in frontiers it's stated that sonic escapes cyberspace by running + also being able to restore certain points in time by running too a stated in generations
@ that doesn’t really count for generations, it was also stated that any being not effected by Time Eater’s ability could restore time wherever as long as they were in the presence of it, hence why Sonic restores it by running, not speed, just time….magic…..negation?
@@bottomtext593 that also is questionable on if it is speed since its not like he ran the infinite distance in a finite amount of time. He ran kinda far and then somehow just broke out so that one is also debatable
Ephesians 4:29 Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them. Exodus 20:7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 1 John 4:7-10 - 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
@@Oreo_166 there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
And it was also stated that Sonic was powerful enough to beat him by himself and he beat the end by himself which makes Solaris look weak in comparison because the end is something so powerful it dwarfs everything Sonic has ever fought combined
That was stated by Ian Flynn on the BumbleKast which is a podcast series that isn't even officially supported by Sega so his say on whether or not Solaris has control over time is flimsy at best. You also can't prove that Ian was talking about PLATONIC concepts since he never actually states that's what he's referring to
On tales tube: tails mentioned infinite possibilities and eggman mentioned Quantum mechanics in the cosmology giving it at least a high 1b to outer cosmology
Infinite Possibilities = 2-A. Dr. Eggman mentioning Quantum Mechanics means nothing unless specified or it follows, as even though String Theory can have higher dimensions, it isn’t guaranteed to be the same every time.
@@ToasterXDI want don't need to hear it Goku destroys Sonic the fight is not even close Archie Comics my ass just because you got 1 billion doesn't make a difference Goku would just kill Sonic whenever he feels like it Goku does not need to kill a million times all Goku has to do is shoot a damn Kamehameha is over with no he can't use haki
Super sonic scales to complex multi - outer the chaos emeralds are stated to have a whole living universe in them and rewind time and when sonic turns super. I mean he’s just invincible and could grant wishes as we saw in the movie sonic 2 and Solaris threatening EVERY and I mean EVERY living being in every timeline just makes him stronger than zeno
It's actually hilarious how many people are down here coping, saying you used non-canon feats for this debate when the only thing non-canon here was the 1 Billion rings statement, which isn't even needed for Sonic to win fr
its honestly hilarious how he himself said in another comment that he just needed a title, and that canon v canon for the two of them is actually very close
@@sabichaokujo3307 I know, but that doesn't change the fact that there are so many people down here thinking he was using non-canon scaling! He didn't even mention The End either, who scales infinitely higher than any previous opponent Sonic fought.
Archie Sonic is canon but if we are strictly talking main/base canon then yes Game Sonic but Ian Flynn has stated Game Sonic can do everything Archie Sonic can do.
I would love to see after the fight ends sonic offering goku to try some chillie dogs. Wonder if sonic could train goku how to be faster and more agile like hinself, would be fun to watch if it ever happens
Solid video, however, you did forget to mention for Goku's speed being faster a technique faster than instant transmission in the later half of the granola arc.
Goku: *goes trough serious training that involves training the body and mind maximizeing his skills to bring out the best of his strength n self* sonic: GOTTA GO FAST🗣🗣🗣💨
Fun fact Sonic himself says that the chaos emeralds give him unlimited power and power scaling in dragon Ball is measured by numbers so yeah. also another fun fact hypersonic is made by using super emeralds which are powered up chaos emeralds! (without plot restrictions)
So no one thinks about using Xeno Goku or CC Goku to fight sonic? I know sonic would win and Goku can win as well but it would be better to use the strongest most hax Goku.
@@dinosaur7256beerus beat arale tho. Being a gag character does not always mean you beat everyone. Quote Goku: “Careful, Arale. That stuff doesn’t work on Beerus sama. He’ll destroy you.”
@@vanillamilk7575 Beerus resist gag powers then. I mean Arale beat full power tori bot who can erase things the author can't and undo the same plot lines.
I feel like both sides were wanked so much here. For one reason, Infinite is absolutely not stronger than Solaris. I think scalers need to stop relying so much on guides, which 90% of the time act as a way to bring hype/promote the main material(same goes for dragon ball). Low multiversal base Sonic is far from a thing, especially considering the recent sonic frontiers seems to still rather keep his strength grounded in base form(lore wise.) Sonic also doesn't exactly have hax to existence erasure because of time eater's feat, because that's not exactly what Time Eater did. I also do not think Goku is anywhere over fifth dimensional. The otherworld, despite how the guides describe it to be transcendental IMO people take the context TOO literally. Likely, it's just referring to a another time-space continuum that's beyond the normal world in the sense it's a more spiritual world, but completely transcending DIMENSIONS altogether? Or the concept of time being non existent? Keep in mind, the after life on numerous occasions moves in real time with whatever events happen in the series. A being like perfect cell, could be teleported there and subsequently blow up King Kai's planet. Goku shaking an infinite of nothingness also kinda...means nothing? Because there's actually nothing there. It's a feat that can't be scaled to anything. With every showcase of the after world in DB, it's not as transcendental like the 'guides' claim to be. The dragon ball super manga also severely seems to ground the characters more than what many fans think nowadays.
With how the afterlife works I don't think it would make sense if it wasn't on a dimensionally higher plane of existence over the mortal realm. I do agree with base Sonic not being multiversal and the afterlife still holding the concepts of space and time though
@ashuraomega1000 well you're wrong base sonic is way higher than multiversal in base due to scaling of the sonic cosmology and sonic is above his own cosmology. The correct lowball for base sonic would be outerversal. But Sonic overall is beyond the tiering system.
Honestly, I'm really suprised someone finally mentioned it, like I've been arguing with myself about these bizarre statements of villains like Infinite and the End being stronger than Solaris or Goku and Beerus being capable of clashing so hard the shockwaves could destroy the universe when everything else in the narratives go against those statements, like... Sonic deafeted Infinite in base with the help of the avatar and Classic, while the End nedeed the equivalent to 2 Supers, but Solaris needed 3 Supers and time travel shenanigans to be defeated And with the Goku and Beerus thing, none of them are close to destroying the universe by themselves and yes the shockwave might have destroyed some planets around them, but even that doesn't make sense cuz' somehow planet earth dodged these shockwaves??? And if we add the fact that Zeno is the pinacle of power in DBS and only him can destroy an entire universe with any kind of ease (but he still doesn't transcend time as there's a different version of him in each timeline, wich kinda disproves the Kaioshin realm and the afterlife being some kind off 4th dimentional construct), then nothing of this argument really adds up Like, it's not even like I can properly disprove those 2 things, is just that it doesn't make sense from the start, ya' know?
@@fxtxlchills3624 What is your reasoning for saying what you said? Because saying Game Sonic(who wouldn’t beat manga Goku)and Archie Sonic could scale higher than anything in Super Dragon Ball Heroes is insane copium🤦♂️
@@fxtxlchills3624 The guy only mentioned Goku before and during the ToP, and he only mentioned the Super Hero arc because of a statement related to Jiren, get real🤣
@@ẞūmïhíkœ there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
@ that has literally never been stated once. You’re just pulling things out of your ass because you want sonic to win because you can’t accept the fact that he doesn’t. Show me actual proof.
i’m a humongous fan of both, but i’d say without counting lives goku would narrowly win. sonic didn’t fight solaris by himself, it took multiple other insanely powerful beings to do it. and goku exerting a force relative to infinity would imply his ki would be relative. a few ki blasts would then be probably enough.
Wym infinite? Sonic needed people as strong as him to go to the future and past to beat Solaris which is already complex multi general I think Sonic slams goku
@ yeah that doesn’t make him weaker lol. Because of Solaris being yk omnipotent him being in the past present and future all at the same time and Sonic still beat him in the making him stronger. Sonic shadow and silver still can time travel with one emerald regardless.
Idk how far this scales but chamapa jumped through 3 univeraal bodies instantly twice while surpressed to not get detected by beerus when collecting the super dragon balls, the logic would be end of super goku is above the nerfed champas most casual speed feat
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You know what i could care less about this video bht what i do want is goku vs kirby for all the "infinite power" meat riders who call us meat riders when we say how many squares to make a cube
Sonic wins because modern sonic defeated a god that eats unierverses for dinner 🍽️ honestly classic sonic would beat goku reason is in cd if you went really fast when you pass a pole you get to travel in time also that pole was just a game mechanic 👨🔧 but hey it’s just a theory a game theory also any goku fans who disagree list your reasons why goku wins I would love to go to a agreement sonic wins
@@InfiniteAstralboy no he doesnt, the point is that you have no idea what these terms really mean and regurgitate shit from horrendous db scalers, sonic on the other hand has numerous geniune low outerversal scalings that are canon
Thing people often mistake is super sonic and his strength. Initially we believed him to be invincible (ill get to that) but that doesnt necessarily mean he cant stagger or is infinitely strong. Frontiers has clearly shown us that super sonic is NOT invincible by any means. He can get hit into walls and actually stagger from it, he can have his ring count forcebly drained and can even be entirely knocked out of super sonic 2 if the attack is strong enough (the attack that the end used looks a lot like a spirit bomb, but we also know Goku's kamehameha can be massive in size). We see in all the titan fights that super sonic can get tired, stagger, take damage (as we also see after he charged through the end, a knocked out super sonic) and just overall isnt invincible. Unleashed also backs this up, as at the end of the battle against dark gaia, we see a visibly tired and worn out super sonic. So the form doesnt even give him infinite stamina, its just a massive power boost at the end of the day. And with frontiers we also see that there is a limit to sonic's strength in his super form. As he couldnt even take out the end by himself (in normal super sonic that is). And dont forget, sonic never defeated solaris in its entirety alone. He defeated a part of him residing in the present. So no he cant defeat super-demensional beings alone either. I recommend actually taking a deeper look at dbs goku's feats as you really did just skip over them and said "no, no, no, nope" without any reason as to why
We also know that those same titans were powered by the chaos emeralds. That dark Gaia literally has the negative chaos energy to counter the chaos emeralds and that the end is Literally the concept of death. In short, the only enemies that actually can fight super sonic are the ones with a direct counter to chaos energy or are the literal concept of death stated to be stronger than anyone sonic has ever faced before. Goku is not that guy, unless im missing something. Edit: i recommend looking deeper into the reasons to why some enemies are able to damage super sonic.
@Space_watcher90 You may have a point but there's two ways to stop super sonic you have the last it out which I'm pretty sure Goku can do in UI and Mui or Hit him with an powerful attack that knocks him out of his form if Goku has the time he might be able to charge up a full power Kamehameha which might know sonic out of super then beat him in base which Goku is capable of so Goku can win this fight it will just be hard and extreme, but so can sonic he might be able to catch Goku or might be able to tank the attack or dodge it.
@corruptedk the guy didn't mention it but super sonic has no actual time limit, that is just a game mechanic. Even if he had a time limit, it would be like a week since in one of the rush games (if i remember correctly) super sonic flew to his opponent for a week straight in his super form, then fought him. Btw, what feat does goku have that damages base sonic? Would you consider KI strong enough to damage the super forms? If yes, why? Im curious to learn more. Edit: i wanted to put the source here for the game but i actually can't find it rn, i guess you can just skip that part tho, but super sonic canonically shouldn't have a time limit.
@@revean-w6e cap i have proof goatku vialates with a mere sway of the finger or the closing of a eyelid even a mere glance or just a breath from his nostril goatku slams🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
@ everyone or aka every confident power scaler dude have you not seen debunks because they exist actually this video just got debunked the other night lol no cap
@@Invisibleboy999 That isn’t what I meant by inconsistent lol. What he can and can’t do and the level of what he fights and performs is so wildly inconsistent from game to game that when looked at from an actual critical lens that values consistency, he does not scale that high, like at all.
You used a composite Sonic. That's a no win scenario for Goku. But you are right about Sonic beating Goku. Sure, Goku can beat people like Luffy, Naruto, possibly Ichigo, and many more. But the two characters Goku is never beating in a fight. Are Superman, and Sonic the hedgehog. And you forgot about Sonic Frontiers. Sonic, in base form, would have to use his full power when it comes to super saiyan 3, and maybe 4. But when it comes to the god forms, that's when he has to break out Super Sonic. And Hyper Sonic would be overkill.
id really like to see dragon ball scaling that doesnt take infinite talks into consideration the realms look super small and no where is it shown in feats such sizes yet just said as hyperbole like most universas that its infinite is size ect. but fkn awesome video.
Manga and anime are two different things and plus Speed is equal to Strength in Dragon Ball so if Goku in the manga surpass Hit time skip with his Strength than it also includes speed as well. So Goku should have Infinite to Immeasurable speed as well.
@ he quite literally just surpassed hit in strength but alr either way sonic is still stronger then goku either way since he was able to beat Solaris who is a multiverse being baseline and he vastly surpassed that power in base enemy’s like the End is the strongest villain and the end > Solaris
Dragon Ball characters have insane resistance towards hax based on powerlevels, so if they have higher powerlevel they can overpower enemy's hax which affect them individually. So dragon Ball characters actually don't have ANY resistence towards time and space manipulations on the World, and also unable to travel through time and universes without certain items and machines. Sonic with all chaos emeralds (so in Super form) is able no ONLY travel through dimentions, space and time, bu also to defeat a being (Solaris) that erased all of universes, timelines and dimensions by appearing. And I am not even talking about resent games, Sonic defeating enemy that in the past required him Super form, and not going to talk about The End at all. Therefore if Goku or any other character unable to defeat, for example, Zeno on their own, they unable to defeat Super Sonic.
Goku fights characters with multiversal power. but Sonic fights monsters that are so powerful and so different from organic life that gods are weak in comparison and sometimes they are even eldritch abomination of which we don't even know the true form, such as THE END. Sonic just has an advantage in this because eggman is dangerous because of his intelligence so the final boss are usually god like beings or god like robots that he controls or loses control of
@@A_literal_supernova yes they are, want proof? Look up "An in-dept scale on Dragon Ball's Cosmology: Analysis and Explanation". Most villains In db super are strong enough to destroy Goku in super Saiyan God. Goku is already multiversal in base. And the multiplier for super Saiyan God is 320,000 times base lowballed at the bare minimum. Solaris isn't getting past beerus. Nowhere close to Zeno since he can easily destroy a High hyperversal Cosmology in seconds. So he's not even close to grand priest or Golden Shenron either.
This was a W video am glad you didn’t low-ball or high-ball goku and Sonic since most people think goku would solo the verse or Sonic would solo verse but that’s a different story tho
Super Goku > Game sonic.. Xeno goku > Archie Sonic… that’s the correct of doing it… and then of course we got god fusion goku but we will leave that one out..
there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
Not to mention hyper(who is canon in sonic 3) uses the master emerald which far superior than all 7 chaos emeralds combined and hyper sonic being the strongest form of sonic
I will make it easier for you, buddy. Super Sonic fighting Perfect Chaos = base Sonic in Generations < Time Eater < Infinite < The End =< Super Sonic in Frontiers > Solaris
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in Boom (which is a branch of the canon), Eggman proved String theory in the season 2 episode Mombot, plus String Theory is 10-11 dimensional in nature so that would make Sonic’s cosmology 10 or 11D right?
In sonic rush, super sonic and burning blaze fly into time to fight eggman and eggman nega and the background were galaxies so the fly the entire universe and then fly into time for final hit
Sonic scales to *immeasurable* speed, Much faster than goku. Sonic running bends reality itself, he breaks the laws of physics, and can affect time and space.
But this doesn’t include his hyper form which is at least a hundred times stronger than super. Or Ultra which survived total reality destruction, and built it back up almost instantly. I don’t feel Goku is even close to that power even in ultra instinct, he has infinite speed but if something is instant that ignores speed
Even tho you downplayed the blue bur by quite a lot by deleting his feats from the Wii games, like when he defeated the Djinn in Lost Rings using a form (darkspine) vastly inferior to his super forms, a feet that by itself is low multiversal barely minimum, you forgot to mention Hyper Sonic. Going by games only, if we used your scaling 1-1 we can still add Hyper Sonic to the mix. Considering how much strong a super emerald is to a normal one...
We just saw Sonic the hedgehog 3*SPOILER ALERT*. Sonic punched Shadow all the way to the moon, shadow landed on the moon in about 3 seconds. Sonic was on top of him about 2 seconds later. I love Goku but that feat there pretty much sums up the power difference physically. Even in ultra instinct Goku can't move that fast. Plus, Shadow and sonic took a planet destroying beam to the face and survived. Plus, shadow taking that moon landing punch, then getting back up a second later and going super again ...sheesh I need to read these sonic comics.
Finally you’re starting to take DB cosmology serious, Zeno’s palace is stated by V-Jump to be located in a different space. The context to that statement is when you’re in Zeno’s palace the universes have been shown that they can be any size, depending on the whims of Zeno, they literally made the universes the size of chess pieces, place them on a chessboard, the context for different clearly means a different dimensional space that can allow them to do whatever they want to do with the 4D or 5D macrocosms with basically affecting anything in them, properties of him higher dimensional spaces
Although there are different dimensions and spatial locations in the Dragon Ball universe, the concept of cosmology or its deep elaboration is not a major theme in the series. Some of these ideas are addressed more in fan-theories than in official material. Although indeed Zeno's palace appears to exist in a separate space, there is no proof or official information that this space is in another dimension higher than 3D. Zeno is shown to be capable of destroying entire universes, the claim of changing their size and placing them on a chessboard is an interpretation that has no concrete confirmation in the series or manga. Although different dimensions exist in Dragon Ball (eg world of the living, world of the dead, etc.), the concept of 4D and 5D dimensions has not been officially confirmed. These ideas come from fan-theories and interpretations, but have no clear explanation in canon. The claim of "higher dimensional spaces" is also incorrect, or at least unproven. The idea of such dimensions again comes from fan-theories rather than official Dragon Ball canon.
@ changing the size of the universes is something that was shown in the manga, Zeno’s palace being located in a different space is something that stated by V-Jump
"Argh, not another speeding ticket, I'll fight it in court but I don't think their going to accept gotta go fast as a medical condition" - Sonic the Hedgehog
One of the best qoutes in sonic boom now heres another
Sonic: "Well give it a chili dog"
Tails: "I don't think it can eat solid food"
Sonic: "Well put it in the blender"
Knuckles: "Well if you say so"
Sonic: "THE CHILI DOG NOT THE BABY!!!"💀☠☠
Actually relevant.
Boom is an alternate timeline (non canon events, powers, power levels, but IDENTICAL laws of physics). So if Eggman proves string theory in Boom, it's proven in the main canon. With the lowest dimensionality of any string theory variant being 10D, This places Solaris (and thus Sonic) at 11D minimum.
Guku, Schmoku, even ZENO's getting an L.
@@jasonbell8515 DAMN😳 Bro you are the ultimate sonic fan
@@Hypers_power Hey, this is all out there.
Besides, if anything, I'm the number one KIRBY fan.
@@jasonbell8515 This is Sonic bro not Kirby but ok🙄
goku seeing sonic survive everything without a scratch with a single ring at his disposal
im tired of this argument, so just stop it already, its obvious I was making a joke that yoy can get hit over and over again if you have a ring in the game, so he could just stall goku out with the I-Frames by picking the ring up every time he loses it
not true
@hiracemagaspar6875 how?
@@CarTheCar-real because if goku used everything he had,he would accidently kill sonic
@@hiracemagaspar6875Depending on which form sonic has.
@@hiracemagaspar6875 game sonic can survive anything except falling into a bottomless put or getting crushed if he has any rings bro
Guys I like Goku... but I think even Game Sonic has more of fighting chance than people give him credit for. Like seriously. Even without archie comics bullshit he is ridiculous. Sonic doesn't slam, but the fight is actually pretty close. Let me cook real quick. If I get something wrong feel free to correct me. Just be nice about it pls.
First a ground rules: 1 Goku gets access to the transformations that his current manga counterpart has. 2 Sonic gets access to super Sonic at the very least since it's a frequently used transformation and if goku gets all his transformations, Sonic should at least get one. 3 goku and sonic get to use items they consistently have access to. 4 all powers are fair game if they canonically can do it on their own without off limits items
First up physical combat:
Goku has the advantage in both strength and physical combat. Sonic has advantage in speed. One of Sonic more impressive speed feats involve him outrunning a black hole for an decent period of time. let's give him like 10 seconds. The other speed feat is how he escaped null space (a massive pocket dimension filled with nothing) simply by running fast enough to create his own exit portal (it was double boost but only sonic was capable of boosting there so this is still his feat). These feats would allow base Sonic to outspeed base goku and get the jump on him. Goku would have to really focus to predict sonics movements which he probably could. But Sonic has a danger sense. It was featured in frontiers but was actually a thing back in sonic cd. So goku needs to find a way to get past danger sense likely by baiting it and countering. Goku would have his power pole and his nimbus, so achieving probably isn't that hard.
Next items/powers:
Goku has access to ki attacks, and Sonic has chaos powers that don't require chaos emeralds as seen in frontiers. These should cancel each other out the most part. Both characters have extremely high density and resilience, so it's likely that their energy attacks will kill each other at least not in base forms.
Sonic has access to elemental shields, the invincibility powerup and speed shoes to avoid and take attacks. Goku has access to senzu beans and can heal damage from attacks. Sonic has access to the chaos emeralds. Each emerald has a specific superpower. With 2 chaos emeralds he could attempt to time travel and refight goku with more experience or he could avoid the fight all together. Using the emeralds he can also seal entities inside objects or people. Using this he could attempt to seal goku away and win. Goku could try using the dragon balls to make a wish to benefit him or wish to end the fight entirely. If sonic were to use all seven emeralds then this where we get into transformations
Transformations:
Goku has access to all his super saiyan and super saiyan god transformations that increase his stats to exponential levels. He also has access to the ultra instinct transformations which allow him to move on instincts. It sorta acts as his danger sense. Sonic transformation is Super Sonic. Don't be fooled by this "super saiyan knockoff" his golden form can be on par with all gokus forms by itself. First, Super Sonic has infinite power to draw from. He can't use all of it in one attack (yet) but an infinite supply of power is an infinite supply of power. Secondly, Super Sonic us invincible. He's literally impervious to damage. To fight against this Goku must outlast Sonics super form as it does have a time limit. That itself is a challenge because Sonic can make his time limit longer by getting more rings. Super Sonic has faced enough gods that Super Sonic would definitely be on par with the transformations that make Goku a god.
I know I mentioned more Sonic info but that's not because I'm glazing him. Its because I know more about Sonic than I do Goku despite liking Goku. That being said I'm not gonna say who I think wins because that's not the point. the point I will make is that this is a closer fight than what people make it out to be. Thank you for letting me cook
Super Sonic doesn’t have a time limit, that’s something that the games add on just to make it more challenging, also Super Sonic doesn’t require 50 rings to transform, I know this was mentioned to be a thing in Frontiers and Adventure and maybe 06, but Sonic characters always break the fourth wall during gameplay to give people instructions on how to progress, this is a common thing in the Boom games as well.
@unknwn6448 I mean... I know it's just a gameplay mechanic. I was just talking about "time limits" in case people still wanted to argue the time limit as a Canonical limitation when its not. Thanks for pointing this out though. Now I don't have to explain it.
@unknwn6448 wait seriously... does hyper sonic have a time limit... or do all variants of sonic even have access to hyper?
@@kylefreeman8077 Once again, gameplay mechanic
And the super emeralds are locked away in another dimension
@@unknwn6448 oh ok
They would be friends if they ever actually met let’s be real.
Absolutely
And they'd absolutely try to kick the crap out of each other >:)
No they're not.
To be honest I could hardly see any fictional character being friend with Goku due to the whole "Battle Fetish" thing.
@@hhminh1467let em have this lil bro.
@@hhminh1467well Sonic is mostly a hero for the exhilaration of it which I’m sure he and Goku could bond over. It was the eventual learning of what’s really at stake that keeps them as heroes but it all started with a passion for excitement through action.
so you just think they would never spar
"Not even close"... and then you basically say it's a toss up... yeah, powerscalers.
Facts lmao
people don't like close matchups at all, titles like "x vs y isn't close" attracts more people so they can magnify their favorite characters
How I scaled this fight years ago:
Base Sonic in Generations and '06 passively withstands multiversal destruction on a scale relative to what Goku and Jiren shook. Base Sonic in Forces surpasses the Phantom Death Egg, which surpasses Infinite, who is stated > Time Eater, so Base Forces Sonic =/> Generations Super Sonic.
In other words Even if you combine the Anime and Manga for DBS, Sonic in Base form stomps.
who the FUCK
believes infinite to be stronger than the time eater?
The Time Eater erasing time and space with hax is... Multiversal destruction? I swear you mfs just be saying anything nowadays
@IsaiahJones-rw1pc it wasn't hax, he just DID it.
@@IsaiahJones-rw1pcprove him wrong then if he is wrong and just saying anything. Use official statements from both companies if he is wrong.
Time eater is beating the breaks off of Infinite what 💀
Sonic still wins but ya'll gotta stop taking these statements seriously and give us actual feats
HE'S GOT THE DOPE SOUNDS PUMPIN' IN HIS STEREO! KICKIN' ASS FAST! PUTTIN' ON A SHOW! 🗣️🗣️🗣️
😂😂
COME ON AND GET YOURSELF TOGETHER, THERE'S NO TIME TO REST!!!
@@chaosreaper05AND IF YOU THE TIME IN HE’LL PUT YOU TO THE TEST🗣🗣
@@919X0 HE'S LIKE A RUNNING MAN IN HIS WORLD, MORE IS LESS, AND IF YOU WANNA TEST HIM BEST BRING YOUR BEST!!!
HE'S LIKE A RUNNING MAN IN THIS WORLD, MORE IS LESS.
“I hate Archie Sonic” - the most relatable sentence ever spoken 2024
As someone who grew up with the archie comics, its not relatable at all. Power aside, Archie Sonic is the most pure version of Sonic there is, even considering the... Penders writing...
@@TheDarkMaster312Dont you dare say that name
@@TheDarkMaster312You telling me Archie Sonic? Pure? Oh sure. Totally, him hooking up with Fiona despite the fact that he knew Tails liked her, having an ego that dare i say is bigger than that of his game counterpart. Him legit getting angry with Eggman after seeing Sally roboticized saying that he never should've shown him a shred of mercy and a few other stuff that i'm not gonna remember right now. Yeah, no Archie Sonic is far from pure buddy. Learn your facts straight before speaking.
@@guatavocruzmarques4125shut your lame ass up like Archie sonic isn’t the best rendition of the character 😭
Hes not pure but hes still likeable
the only canon story line in game you forgot is sonic frontiers
Which just boost sonic scaling even more because The End is just ridiculous.
iirc the ends said he transcends fate and logic which would scale him by alot
Yeah
You know what's even funnier? With the cyloop Sonic could simply hitkill Goku, since this is an ability that forces the target's vulnerability, breaking their defenses. Against any enemy this is already a dangerous ability, but against Goku especially because with his guard down he fell even to a laser shot, and felt pain from a stone. MUI Goku would probably dodge this by instinct, but even Blue would probably fall
@@EdgyQueen Goku getting hit by a stone isn't canon🤣 its filler
Lol you didn’t even mention The End from sonic frontiers that scales above EVERYTHING you just mentioned and Sonic still won. The End is crazy OP.
Yeah, Sonic beat her through power upgrades and help from the other characters lol
@@ashuraomega1000and goku? The saiyan who needed a ritual to be super saiyan god? The one who needed zeno to beat zamasu? The one who needed a genkidama, mastered ultrainstinct, android 17 and frieza only to beat jiren? And to be honest, most of anime fights are just like that, level up and power of friendship
Edit: I don't want to be mean, but it's the true
@El_Manu2 Those aren't the same as Sonic's fight with The End
bud does not know abt solaris
@@ashuraomega1000 you're right, sonic had some problems with cyber corruption and needed to pass through challenges to be able to control it, goku literally needed 5 pure heart saiyans (if i remember correctly) to be able to fight against like 5% of bills power, and at least in the fight with the end was sonic the one who stabbed it, zeno literally erased zamasu without help from anybody
Off topic but endless possibilities > his world
What I'm made of > both
@RetroMagnus761 you'd he pretty undefeatable
I meant be but auto correct is bs
Live and learn supremacy
@@falxblade1352 that's cool but can you really open your to it
Zebrahead cover of his world>
the fact bro downplayed sonic heavilly not even talking about the outer arguments or any frontier scaling shows how bad of a stomp this is
ik goku has outer arguments as well but it pales in comparison to sonic
Goku doesn’t have Outer feats buddy
@@Meepie_Playz arguments do not equal feats
@@strange_editor Learn to scale buddy
@@Meepie_Playzik bro is not liking his own comment😂
Another thing “Learn to scale” isn’t doing anything to prove your point.
It’s crazy how mad DBZ fans get when Goku can’t beat everyone.
HE’S SUPPOSED TO WIN EVERYTIME
he is not SUPOSED mister
Exactly
@@valtaoi9334 hes goku though 😔
Goku can't even solo everyone in his own verse. He definitely can't solo other more powerful/buster verses if he isn't even the strongest in his own verse.
Good video, but the Super dimensional statement for Solaris is not saying Solaris is above a singular dimension. It’s saying that Solaris is above the concept of dimensions in general when you look at the Kanji in Japanese. And then for Maginaryworld, it’s a dimension which is formed from all the dreams in the Sonic multiverse. The Sonic multiverse contains NiGHTS into Dreams which has Jungian archetypes which easily get Sonic above anything Goku has ever done.
Dragon ball also as many Super dimensional statements as well but Dragon ball always got be downplayed to suit their agenda I guess.
@ All super dimensional statements aren’t created equal.
What is a jungian archetype?, ngl I hear concepts like abstracts, acasuality, platonic concepts, infinites beyond infinites, immeasurable, but I don’t get any explanation. What is a jungian archetype and how does that upscale sonic instead of say the string theory from doctor eggman?.
@ Jungian archetypes are kinda like platonic concepts. In the words of Jung himself they transcend ALL CATEGORIES of Space and Time and beyond all forms of mathematics.
"Super dimensional" means nothing without context. The definition of the term on its own just means "1+ dimensional" aka scaling 1 extra layer into dimensional power. Some other series' like Dragon Ball have described the interpretation of super dimensional to be "beyond dimensions" which could be scaled to outerversal but even that is a pretty shoddy argument because just like how being "beyond space and time" doesn't entail transcending all extensions of time and space, "beyond dimensions" would only mean transcending the dimensions which have actually been shown.
9:55 1 billion isn't too far fetched for Game Sonic to hold because you can hold up to 99,999,999 rings in the Sonic 06 Hub World.
💀💀💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
people compare uncanon versions of Sonic to canon DB-DBS Goku
Goku’s most popular feat is destroying a Macrocosm but no one seems to understand
Goku by fist clashing was releasing enough energy to that sent out shockwaves able to completely destroy the infinite universe. (A outerversal feat which prob makes current Goku boundless)
Heaven and Hell which also are infinite but aren’t even connected with the universe.
The world of the Kai’s and Maybe Beerus’s world which also aren’t even connected to the universe.
As for durability the best example for non dragon ball fans to understand is to compare
A weakened Goku in base form was able to survive and move around in a Black hole and destroy it??
But before this. Goku (pre-UI/pre limit break) got absolutely absorbed by a black hole the spirit bomb made. And still survived.
also dead zone Goku survived a black hole soo…
He didn’t destroy it lmao tf are you talking about
@@jpnagaming7716 wait...did read his comment? Its a known fact that beerus and goku was almost destroyed the macrocosm but goku timed his attack to CANCEL OUT BEERUS'S ATTACK. Ngl that's only the tip of the iceberg since ya know that's beginning of SUPER.
@ yeah ALMOST, but this dude said that Goku DID destroy it lmao
@@ThatGuyEnd Nope. Goku & Beerus' fight didn't wipe out anything. They didn't even destroy nearby meteorites or planets. Literally nothing you said was a fact.
@@ThatGuyEnd Wow everything you said was wrong.
One by Feats
Goku has been hurt by bullets and tagged by regular human thugs
Super Saiyan Blue Goku has been nearly killed by a regular laser
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta killed by Planet Explosion
Goku and Vegeta have been easily knocked out by a regular stun gun
Krillin held his own against Super Saiyan Blue Goku in a beam struggle and Android 18 could knock away both of their attacks
Krillin later gets defeated by an Android Bee called Hachimaru in DBS Chapter 91. Hachimaru was heavily damaged by Krillin using a standard police gun to shoot the Android Bee down. Then Hachimaru proceeded to defeat Krillin afterwards.
Goku needs a specialized suit to go to the center of the Earth. Because the heat is too much for his body. Beerus even says that Bulma sent Goku on a very dangerous mission for him. In Dragon Ball Super Episode 68. Goku needed a specialized suit from Bulma to survive the high temperatures in the core of the Earth. Even Beerus says that the core of the Earth is a dangerous place for Goku. Even Goku says that he would die if he went into the Core of Earth.
Two
Dragon Ball Inconsistencies
Three its stated by Android 16 that a nuclear bomb is enough to kill Cell. Cell was clearly afraid of the Nuclear Bomb. So was Goku.
Beerus & Goku's fight
1. Old kai is far too unreliable.
Old Kai debunks himself when he says the shockwaves are getting stronger as they travel further
Yet the shockwaves reached the sacred world of the kais yet that world was fine. The sacred world of the kais is the furthest point and its outside the seventh universe.
Old Kai also wasn't even sure himself if it was capable of destroying the universe.
Old kai is the same person who thought kid buu was stronger than Beerus
Old Kai also thought that Beerus was scared of his power so he sealed him away. Implying Beerus is weaker than him.
2. Narrator.
The narrator is not omniscient like many claim to be. He says that Beerus went full power during his first battle with Goku
He has even been wrong in the past by saying how Saiyan Saga Nappa is boundless
And then the Narrator claims that Namek Saga Frieza is capable of destroying the universe
Four Its completely out of character for Goku to destroy the Sun. One because he is a morally good guy. Two He wouldn't destroy the source of Superman's power because Goku loves a challenge. This is the same guy who gave Cell a senzu bean for the sake of a fair battle against his own son.
Super Saiyan 2 is pretty much an asspull. There was no real foreshadowing, implication or mention of a new transformation.
Yes there were mentions of improving the Super Saiyan Transformation. But Super Vegeta is exactly just that. An improvement of the original SSJ1 that Goku used on Namek.
Goku saying Gohan is stronger than him doesn't mean that a new transformation has been foreshadowed or implied.
And no, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is not an improved version or an evolution of Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan severely damaged Cell with one punch while Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks was unable to damage Cell even when his strongest attacks landed.
Mystic was definitely an asspull. Guru already unlocked Gohan's hidden potential in the Namek Arc. Mystic Gohan made no sense.
Super Saiyan 3. The Transformation Goku supposedly trained for in other world. But Goku conveniently felt no need to mention learning a new transformation in other world when he first arrives on Earth despite being the kind of person to brag about his fighting achievements nor did he use this powerful transformation against Majin Vegeta. Despite the entire world being at stake and Goku having no motivation to fight Vegeta at all.
Then there is Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta becoming stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku through the power of love & friendship because Beerus smacked Bulma.
Vegeta literally pulled Super Saiyan Blue Evolution out of his ass. When there is zero foreshadowing or hints that such a transformation was even possible and it was never mentioned beforehand. And no its not like Super Saiyan Grade 2. One we actually saw the Saiyans training for Super Saiyan Grade 2. Meanwhile we never saw Vegeta train Super Saiyan Blue Evolution at all.
Super Saiyan Grade 2 wasn’t even much of a transformation. Super Saiyan Grade 2 was the equivalent of bulking up your muscle mass to achieve a temporary boost in Physical Strength but severely reducing your speed & agility. Meanwhile Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is a massive power boost & new transformation out of nowhere with no downsides & no training or effort required for it to work.
Then there is the Super Saiyan Rage asspull. Trunks literally gets a massive power boost out of nowhere to defeat Zamssu by essentially throwing a temper tantrum.
The Beast Gohan & Orange Piccolo Asspulls. Piccolo getting his potential unlocked through Dragon Balls is lazy writing. But when Gamma 2 clearly defeats Piccolo even after Piccolo has his Full Potential unlocked. Piccolo gets another Transformation out of nowhere, “Orange Piccolo”. Meanwhile Gohan sees Piccolo getting beaten up by Cell Max then pulls another Transformation out of his ass by throwing another temper tantrum. No foreshadowing or set up beforehand.
The Ultra Instinct Transformation was an asspull. No real foreshadowing or set up for the transformation. Ultra Instinct was set up as a frame of mind that you have to learn and develop over time. It was never implied, foreshadowed or stated to be a new type of transformation. Yes Ultra Instinct is mentioned before the Tournament of Power. But as shown from Beerus using it during the battle between the Gods of Destruction. It was implied to be a special state of mind. A type of spiritual enlightenment.
Instead "Ultra Instinct" is just an overglorified "Super Saiyan White" that Goku pulls out of his ass at the last minute. This isn't Goku developing a new state of mind through enlightenment or changing the way he fights or learning more about controlling his ki & instincts. This is Goku pulling a new Super Saiyan Transformation out of his ass when he is about to lose to Jiren.
The Ultra Ego Asspull that was never foreshadowed or set up whatsoever.
Then there is True Ultra Instinct. Another garbage asspull out of nowhere which further contradicts how Ultra Instinct was previously established to work.
Using the Daizenshuu in arguments.
Dragon Ball
Often on WWW when arguing DB, people will bring up the Daizenshuu to source their arguments.
The Daizenshuu is often mistaken for being written by Toriyama himself.
The Daizenshuu was written by Watanabe Akinori.
Toriyama's involvement with the Daizenshuu was mainly just interviews and snippets of information.
Toriyama did say he approved of the Daizenshuu , but that's mostly just work appreciation.
The problem I have with the Daizenshuu is that it contradicts itself and the manga.
Some examples:
50% Freeza is said to have a PL of 60,000,000 in the Daizenshuu
Freeza 50%: 60 million
While base Goku is said to have 3,000,000.
Versus Freeza: 3 million
A KKX20 would be 60,000,000 yet Freeza blocked Goku's kamehameha with one hand.
Daizenshuu 4 says that Kid Boo uses IT.
Kid Boo uses Kai Kai in the manga.
Nappa being at 4000 contradicts the manga.
Nappa: 4,000
Once Nappa calms down Goku says that it could take a while to beat Nappa
He also had to use the Kaioken just to catch up to Nappa.
The Daizenshuu also says Gohan doesn't use SSJ2 after he shows it to Kabito, but then later says he uses it against Dabura.
Speaking of Gohan, the Daizenshuu claims Gohan is as strong as he was in the Cell Saga despite us being told he was weaker in the Manga.
Daizenshuu 1 has Freeza's 3rd form listed as his second.
Goku is not faster than time. Hit’s Power is both stated and shown not to work on people stronger than Hit. That is a mechanic of Hit’s power. It has nothing to do with Goku’s speed or a resistance to time manipulation.
Jiren supposedly shaking the Null Realm does not make Goku omnipotent or 4D like toxic Dragon Ball Fanboys keep claiming. By that logic Kenpachi, Acnologia & Kaguya are omnipotent as well for creating and destroying dimensions that are also infinite.
Another problem with the Daizenshuu is that it also has movie, filler and special characters.
Planets in Dragon Ball have extremely inconsistent sizes, some have been shown to even be building sized
Heaven being equal the size of the universe is contradicted by actual guides and canon itself.
Sonic in base could be scaled to immeasurable speed through time traveling in Sonic CD
and the in frontiers it's stated that sonic escapes cyberspace by running + also being able to restore certain points in time by running too a stated in generations
@ that doesn’t really count for generations, it was also stated that any being not effected by Time Eater’s ability could restore time wherever as long as they were in the presence of it, hence why Sonic restores it by running, not speed, just time….magic…..negation?
Also Forces where he just escapes the infinite void (Null Space) by running really really fast
@@bottomtext593 that also is questionable on if it is speed since its not like he ran the infinite distance in a finite amount of time. He ran kinda far and then somehow just broke out so that one is also debatable
@@TiMBanGboNganddroy huh
Sonic vs Goku - regarding just the canon versions - is honestly close AF imo.
i agree, i needed a title
Ephesians 4:29
Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them.
Exodus 20:7
“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
1 John 4:7-10 - 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
@@Oreo_166 there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
@@gamer_timeyt1883what the fuck are you happing about
you sure there equal? Archie sonic had better feats
I bet someone out there is saying that sonic the hedgehog is a dragon ball isekai and i can't blame them for it
4:20 isnt there an statement from Flynn saying that Solaris was tearing apart the concept of time?
And it was also stated that Sonic was powerful enough to beat him by himself and he beat the end by himself which makes Solaris look weak in comparison because the end is something so powerful it dwarfs everything Sonic has ever fought combined
That was stated by Ian Flynn on the BumbleKast which is a podcast series that isn't even officially supported by Sega so his say on whether or not Solaris has control over time is flimsy at best. You also can't prove that Ian was talking about PLATONIC concepts since he never actually states that's what he's referring to
where there is nothing there is no time that is why
In sonic generations.
Tails said this "both sonics can bring life and time back with their speed!"
That’s a hax ability
@LastGokuMerchant yeah, Speed is hax..
if bro brings archie sonic to the argument entire dragon balls verse is cooked
On tales tube: tails mentioned infinite possibilities and eggman mentioned Quantum mechanics in the cosmology giving it at least a high 1b to outer cosmology
Infinite Possibilities = 2-A.
Dr. Eggman mentioning Quantum Mechanics means nothing unless specified or it follows, as even though String Theory can have higher dimensions, it isn’t guaranteed to be the same every time.
Ian flynn already states that the sonic cosmology has every single numerical concept that we know of irl so
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.no he didnt
Toaster thinks he can keep walking in and out of my feed! 😭😭😭
i’ve done it and i’ll keep doing it 🕺🕺
@@ToasterXDtoaster do you have a toaster built into your body or do you just really like toasters?
@@ToasterXDI want don't need to hear it Goku destroys Sonic the fight is not even close Archie Comics my ass just because you got 1 billion doesn't make a difference Goku would just kill Sonic whenever he feels like it Goku does not need to kill a million times all Goku has to do is shoot a damn Kamehameha is over with no he can't use haki
Super sonic scales to complex multi - outer the chaos emeralds are stated to have a whole living universe in them and rewind time and when sonic turns super. I mean he’s just invincible and could grant wishes as we saw in the movie sonic 2 and Solaris threatening EVERY and I mean EVERY living being in every timeline just makes him stronger than zeno
not actually invicible for example solaris hurting super sonic
Sometimes u just surpass the people u look up to
Tyrecordslol but Goku slams
If it’s true that there physically the same goku taking the win probably
It's actually hilarious how many people are down here coping, saying you used non-canon feats for this debate when the only thing non-canon here was the 1 Billion rings statement, which isn't even needed for Sonic to win fr
its honestly hilarious how he himself said in another comment that he just needed a title, and that canon v canon for the two of them is actually very close
@@sabichaokujo3307 I know, but that doesn't change the fact that there are so many people down here thinking he was using non-canon scaling! He didn't even mention The End either, who scales infinitely higher than any previous opponent Sonic fought.
Archie Sonic is canon but if we are strictly talking main/base canon then yes Game Sonic but Ian Flynn has stated Game Sonic can do everything Archie Sonic can do.
@@sabichaokujo3307sonic is complex multiversal level
@@OlandoWilson-te7ie which goku started as in super
I would love to see after the fight ends sonic offering goku to try some chillie dogs. Wonder if sonic could train goku how to be faster and more agile like hinself, would be fun to watch if it ever happens
Solid video, however, you did forget to mention for Goku's speed being faster a technique faster than instant transmission in the later half of the granola arc.
YAAAAAAAAAY SONIC VIDEO but yeah honestly sonic soloing the DB verse with negative effort it doesn’t matter which one you use game or comics
Bro has never watched dbs or z ever
@ they are literally fodder for sonic he’s literally blitzing the verse
@@Reesemike Sonic fans when you don’t lie and wank Sonic to infinite layers into boundless even though he’s only universal+.
@@Reesemike Ok, saying they’re fodder is a bit too far. It’s Sonic the op one here.
Goku: *goes trough serious training that involves training the body and mind maximizeing his skills to bring out the best of his strength n self* sonic: GOTTA GO FAST🗣🗣🗣💨
Can you do Archie sonic vs DBH Goku(GT)?
Can you do a video on Ultra Sonic Vs Hyper Sonic, I think hyper is stronger if we use Archie’s lore
ultra sonic is stronger since archie lore inst cannon to the classic dimension
@@realsolaris ultra takes 1 super emarald to transform while hyper takes 7
Fun fact Sonic himself says that the chaos emeralds give him unlimited power and power scaling in dragon Ball is measured by numbers so yeah.
also another fun
fact hypersonic is made by using super emeralds which are powered up chaos emeralds!
(without plot restrictions)
there actually different sets
Goku would still win in base form because dragon ball heroes exists 😅
@dont count dragon ball heroes
@diegolopesme then don't count Archie sonic
@counting dragon ball heroes might as well count fanfic
No mention of hyper sonic but still good. Shouldve included super sonic 2 from sonic frontiers aswell
So no one thinks about using Xeno Goku or CC Goku to fight sonic? I know sonic would win and Goku can win as well but it would be better to use the strongest most hax Goku.
I mean,When People being Xeno and CC Goku,then they Bring the Sonic that Literally Writes his own series (Archie Sonic)
@@gabrielmachado1247 Only Arale would be able to beat Archie sonic then
@@dinosaur7256beerus beat arale tho. Being a gag character does not always mean you beat everyone.
Quote Goku: “Careful, Arale. That stuff doesn’t work on Beerus sama. He’ll destroy you.”
@@vanillamilk7575 Beerus resist gag powers then. I mean Arale beat full power tori bot who can erase things the author can't and undo the same plot lines.
@@gabrielmachado1247 Except he didn't actually do that, that was literally a gag in a random sweep stakes thing for the Archie comics
Archie sonic vs medaka
This goku is considered highballed or wanked by most of his scalers tbh. Game Sonic still slaps him tho.
I agree with 6D but 7D for anime Goku is wank. Manga Goku is 7D
@@ashuraomega1000Manga Goku doesnt even come close to Anime Goku💔
@@NemirousDa1did you not open a single book in your life
@@ashuraomega1000 let's comp them, since sonic wanker do the same with game and archie sonic. Comp super goku absolutely destroys sonic
@@esdrasdjuma6585 You can retract this statement. I wouldn't have said anything if i was completely stupid.
There is also super sonic two and sonics fight against the end which stated all of sonics enemies up to that point were finite compared to him.
When it comes to power anime characters fall shorts to Comics, and video game characters.
Nah I want that IDW SONIC X DBS Crossover 🔥🔥
I feel like both sides were wanked so much here.
For one reason, Infinite is absolutely not stronger than Solaris. I think scalers need to stop relying so much on guides, which 90% of the time act as a way to bring hype/promote the main material(same goes for dragon ball). Low multiversal base Sonic is far from a thing, especially considering the recent sonic frontiers seems to still rather keep his strength grounded in base form(lore wise.) Sonic also doesn't exactly have hax to existence erasure because of time eater's feat, because that's not exactly what Time Eater did.
I also do not think Goku is anywhere over fifth dimensional. The otherworld, despite how the guides describe it to be transcendental IMO people take the context TOO literally. Likely, it's just referring to a another time-space continuum that's beyond the normal world in the sense it's a more spiritual world, but completely transcending DIMENSIONS altogether? Or the concept of time being non existent? Keep in mind, the after life on numerous occasions moves in real time with whatever events happen in the series. A being like perfect cell, could be teleported there and subsequently blow up King Kai's planet. Goku shaking an infinite of nothingness also kinda...means nothing? Because there's actually nothing there. It's a feat that can't be scaled to anything.
With every showcase of the after world in DB, it's not as transcendental like the 'guides' claim to be. The dragon ball super manga also severely seems to ground the characters more than what many fans think nowadays.
💀
Infinite is way stronger than Solara as stated by Sega themselves. Prove that Sega is wrong and use official statements.
With how the afterlife works I don't think it would make sense if it wasn't on a dimensionally higher plane of existence over the mortal realm. I do agree with base Sonic not being multiversal and the afterlife still holding the concepts of space and time though
@ashuraomega1000 well you're wrong base sonic is way higher than multiversal in base due to scaling of the sonic cosmology and sonic is above his own cosmology. The correct lowball for base sonic would be outerversal. But Sonic overall is beyond the tiering system.
Honestly, I'm really suprised someone finally mentioned it, like I've been arguing with myself about these bizarre statements of villains like Infinite and the End being stronger than Solaris or Goku and Beerus being capable of clashing so hard the shockwaves could destroy the universe when everything else in the narratives go against those statements, like...
Sonic deafeted Infinite in base with the help of the avatar and Classic, while the End nedeed the equivalent to 2 Supers, but Solaris needed 3 Supers and time travel shenanigans to be defeated
And with the Goku and Beerus thing, none of them are close to destroying the universe by themselves and yes the shockwave might have destroyed some planets around them, but even that doesn't make sense cuz' somehow planet earth dodged these shockwaves??? And if we add the fact that Zeno is the pinacle of power in DBS and only him can destroy an entire universe with any kind of ease (but he still doesn't transcend time as there's a different version of him in each timeline, wich kinda disproves the Kaioshin realm and the afterlife being some kind off 4th dimentional construct), then nothing of this argument really adds up
Like, it's not even like I can properly disprove those 2 things, is just that it doesn't make sense from the start, ya' know?
Facts Game sonic Archie sonic >>>> Dragon ball >>> Dragon ball heroes
Facts
Copium
@@Ninjagoda15 It isn't me coping at all, its literally facts and what he said is facts honestly lol.
@@fxtxlchills3624 What is your reasoning for saying what you said? Because saying Game Sonic(who wouldn’t beat manga Goku)and Archie Sonic could scale higher than anything in Super Dragon Ball Heroes is insane copium🤦♂️
@@fxtxlchills3624 The guy only mentioned Goku before and during the ToP, and he only mentioned the Super Hero arc because of a statement related to Jiren, get real🤣
The real match isn't their powers. Its how fast and how many chili dogs can they eat before they give out.
Imagine super sonic and super saiyan goku work together
Goky wins but if Archie sonic is here, Archie wins. (Imma say)
@@ẞūmïhíkœ there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
@@Remote.1s that was literally NEVER stated 💀
@@Kryptik_Krusader he did search up Ian Flynn says game sonic and archie sonic are equal on Google or TH-cam and you can see the podcast
@ that has literally never been stated once. You’re just pulling things out of your ass because you want sonic to win because you can’t accept the fact that he doesn’t.
Show me actual proof.
I did not mean to start a battle
i’m a humongous fan of both, but i’d say without counting lives goku would narrowly win. sonic didn’t fight solaris by himself, it took multiple other insanely powerful beings to do it. and goku exerting a force relative to infinity would imply his ki would be relative. a few ki blasts would then be probably enough.
Wym infinite? Sonic needed people as strong as him to go to the future and past to beat Solaris which is already complex multi general I think Sonic slams goku
@ yeah, but 3 people. and silver mainly does the time traveling.
@ yeah that doesn’t make him weaker lol. Because of Solaris being yk omnipotent him being in the past present and future all at the same time and Sonic still beat him in the making him stronger. Sonic shadow and silver still can time travel with one emerald regardless.
@@Purple_23184it still does
@@Purple_23184goku slams
Thank you for saying the obvious because surprisingly not a lot of people know it sonic destroys and it’s not even close
Idk how far this scales but chamapa jumped through 3 univeraal bodies instantly twice while surpressed to not get detected by beerus when collecting the super dragon balls, the logic would be end of super goku is above the nerfed champas most casual speed feat
You know what i could care less about this video bht what i do want is goku vs kirby for all the "infinite power" meat riders who call us meat riders when we say how many squares to make a cube
Team sonic 👇
Sonic wins because modern sonic defeated a god that eats unierverses for dinner 🍽️ honestly classic sonic would beat goku reason is in cd if you went really fast when you pass a pole you get to travel in time also that pole was just a game mechanic 👨🔧 but hey it’s just a theory a game theory also any goku fans who disagree list your reasons why goku wins I would love to go to a agreement sonic wins
So we just gonna ignore that the otherworld is metaphysical and without time and space and ts is stated multiple times💀
metaphysical implies a 5D minimum cosmology and without time and space is a generations level base form feat
@ he also ignored Goku transcends dimensionality
@@InfiniteAstralboy no he doesnt, the point is that you have no idea what these terms really mean and regurgitate shit from horrendous db scalers,
sonic on the other hand has numerous geniune low outerversal scalings that are canon
@@1kirua_aim so does Goku😭and I don’t get these from anyone stop assuming
@ then there terms simply dont mean what you think they mean
The funny thing is if Goku didn't exist Also sonic won't exist
Nope 😂
Did you talk about hyper sonic?
Thing people often mistake is super sonic and his strength. Initially we believed him to be invincible (ill get to that) but that doesnt necessarily mean he cant stagger or is infinitely strong.
Frontiers has clearly shown us that super sonic is NOT invincible by any means. He can get hit into walls and actually stagger from it, he can have his ring count forcebly drained and can even be entirely knocked out of super sonic 2 if the attack is strong enough (the attack that the end used looks a lot like a spirit bomb, but we also know Goku's kamehameha can be massive in size). We see in all the titan fights that super sonic can get tired, stagger, take damage (as we also see after he charged through the end, a knocked out super sonic) and just overall isnt invincible.
Unleashed also backs this up, as at the end of the battle against dark gaia, we see a visibly tired and worn out super sonic. So the form doesnt even give him infinite stamina, its just a massive power boost at the end of the day.
And with frontiers we also see that there is a limit to sonic's strength in his super form. As he couldnt even take out the end by himself (in normal super sonic that is).
And dont forget, sonic never defeated solaris in its entirety alone. He defeated a part of him residing in the present. So no he cant defeat super-demensional beings alone either.
I recommend actually taking a deeper look at dbs goku's feats as you really did just skip over them and said "no, no, no, nope" without any reason as to why
At the end of the day sonic still beat goku and it's by a landslide he just has better feats
@@IntrovertclubzSaying sonic slams is kinda glazing honestly no one slams it's way closer than you think even the person who made the video agreed
We also know that those same titans were powered by the chaos emeralds. That dark Gaia literally has the negative chaos energy to counter the chaos emeralds and that the end is Literally the concept of death. In short, the only enemies that actually can fight super sonic are the ones with a direct counter to chaos energy or are the literal concept of death stated to be stronger than anyone sonic has ever faced before. Goku is not that guy, unless im missing something.
Edit: i recommend looking deeper into the reasons to why some enemies are able to damage super sonic.
@Space_watcher90 You may have a point but there's two ways to stop super sonic you have the last it out which I'm pretty sure Goku can do in UI and Mui or Hit him with an powerful attack that knocks him out of his form if Goku has the time he might be able to charge up a full power Kamehameha which might know sonic out of super then beat him in base which Goku is capable of so Goku can win this fight it will just be hard and extreme, but so can sonic he might be able to catch Goku or might be able to tank the attack or dodge it.
@corruptedk the guy didn't mention it but super sonic has no actual time limit, that is just a game mechanic. Even if he had a time limit, it would be like a week since in one of the rush games (if i remember correctly) super sonic flew to his opponent for a week straight in his super form, then fought him. Btw, what feat does goku have that damages base sonic? Would you consider KI strong enough to damage the super forms? If yes, why? Im curious to learn more.
Edit: i wanted to put the source here for the game but i actually can't find it rn, i guess you can just skip that part tho, but super sonic canonically shouldn't have a time limit.
Sonic blitzes 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Goku 1 shots in base form🥱🥱🥱🥱
Nah sonic solos
Ok goku glazer
@@revean-w6e cap i have proof goatku vialates with a mere sway of the finger or the closing of a eyelid even a mere glance or just a breath from his nostril goatku slams🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
@@Sigma_Asylum_99 not glazing just facts
@@SSGRoisa-x5v If it’s a fact, explain why instead of just saying he one-shots without further elaboration
Bro in the frieza saga, Vegeta mentions that with power speed increases.
did i say saiyan saga? it must’ve been a typo in my script
@@ToasterXD no u said in dbs
Not probably no, it’s an absolutely HELL NO
I don't know, this match sounded really close to me
its not close sonic stomps
@@ToddlesGoku stomps
How many times do you need to keep getting debunked 😐 seriously bro it’s like you just love to downplay dbz like god sake
who is debunking him??
@ everyone or aka every confident power scaler dude have you not seen debunks because they exist actually this video just got debunked the other night lol no cap
@@Gameing-and-otherstuff by who?
@@Tyshiro234bro lied😭
@@doodoohead5631 no I didn’t lol you can go look toaster debunked right now
High end Sonic scaling is much, much more inconsistent than high end DB scaling. Consistently Goku would utterly destroy lmao.
Eh, not really
@ Yes really. Lmao.
Its not inconsistent at all sonic has proven time and time again that he constantly gets stronger each game
@@Invisibleboy999 That isn’t what I meant by inconsistent lol. What he can and can’t do and the level of what he fights and performs is so wildly inconsistent from game to game that when looked at from an actual critical lens that values consistency, he does not scale that high, like at all.
Honestly game Sonic's multiversal scaling isn't consistent at all
You used a composite Sonic. That's a no win scenario for Goku. But you are right about Sonic beating Goku.
Sure, Goku can beat people like Luffy, Naruto, possibly Ichigo, and many more. But the two characters Goku is never beating in a fight. Are Superman, and Sonic the hedgehog.
And you forgot about Sonic Frontiers.
Sonic, in base form, would have to use his full power when it comes to super saiyan 3, and maybe 4. But when it comes to the god forms, that's when he has to break out Super Sonic. And Hyper Sonic would be overkill.
Agreed sonic's base is underrated at times
Possibly Ichigo ☠️ I swear Ichigo is the most glazed Mc in fiction
rimuru solos goku
People don't know sonic at full power would kill goku since sonic don't use his full strength and speed
Image goku kills tails what would sonic 💀
You've never heard of Composite Goku huh
id really like to see dragon ball scaling that doesnt take infinite talks into consideration the realms look super small and no where is it shown in feats such sizes yet just said as hyperbole like most universas that its infinite is size ect. but fkn awesome video.
Finally, I’m going to watch this power leveling of GT and I swear if it’s biased towards my absolute goat, no glaze by the way GT I’m gonna crash out
Goku slams
Sonic solos
I respect the glaze. Here's a napkin
@
Being so for real, I don’t respect it
@@nasthesamurai8988Sonic glaze fr.
@@nasthesamurai8988 goofy sonic glazer
There's actually people that think sonic lasts five seconds against a sleeping base Goku?
What the fuck did death battle do now?
Too bad sonic slams how is Goku finna hit sonic when he’s immeasurable speed?
Goku also has immeasurable combat speed as well but go off.
@ no I don’t think so hes mftl+ and the hit thing doesn’t work since whis explained it to us
Manga and anime are two different things and plus Speed is equal to Strength in Dragon Ball so if Goku in the manga surpass Hit time skip with his Strength than it also includes speed as well. So Goku should have Infinite to Immeasurable speed as well.
@ he quite literally just surpassed hit in strength but alr either way sonic is still stronger then goku either way since he was able to beat Solaris who is a multiverse being baseline and he vastly surpassed that power in base enemy’s like the End is the strongest villain and the end > Solaris
Sonic said naw I’d win
Hey don’t forget dragon ball characters have insane hax resistance. If sonic isn’t equal or stronger than goku physically, his hax don’t matter.
Dragon Ball characters have insane resistance towards hax based on powerlevels, so if they have higher powerlevel they can overpower enemy's hax which affect them individually. So dragon Ball characters actually don't have ANY resistence towards time and space manipulations on the World, and also unable to travel through time and universes without certain items and machines.
Sonic with all chaos emeralds (so in Super form) is able no ONLY travel through dimentions, space and time, bu also to defeat a being (Solaris) that erased all of universes, timelines and dimensions by appearing. And I am not even talking about resent games, Sonic defeating enemy that in the past required him Super form, and not going to talk about The End at all.
Therefore if Goku or any other character unable to defeat, for example, Zeno on their own, they unable to defeat Super Sonic.
Goku fights characters with multiversal power. but Sonic fights monsters that are so powerful and so different from organic life that gods are weak in comparison and sometimes they are even eldritch abomination of which we don't even know the true form, such as THE END.
Sonic just has an advantage in this because eggman is dangerous because of his intelligence so the final boss are usually god like beings or god like robots that he controls or loses control of
Dawg db villains are like that all the time. Goku is multiversal in base
@@LightSeerzKingThere not, Solaris would wipe the verse in a second
@@A_literal_supernova yes they are, want proof? Look up "An in-dept scale on Dragon Ball's Cosmology: Analysis and Explanation". Most villains In db super are strong enough to destroy Goku in super Saiyan God. Goku is already multiversal in base. And the multiplier for super Saiyan God is 320,000 times base lowballed at the bare minimum.
Solaris isn't getting past beerus. Nowhere close to Zeno since he can easily destroy a High hyperversal Cosmology in seconds. So he's not even close to grand priest or Golden Shenron either.
@ Who made the view you’re talk about? I can’t find it.
This was a W video am glad you didn’t low-ball or high-ball goku and Sonic since most people think goku would solo the verse or Sonic would solo verse but that’s a different story tho
Goku rips sonics heay apart
Facts
Fr
wrong
Yall some glazers accept that goku loses you bum
Super Goku > Game sonic.. Xeno goku > Archie Sonic… that’s the correct of doing it… and then of course we got god fusion goku but we will leave that one out..
there so no way people deadass think Goku>game sonic when Ian Flynn writer of Archie HIMSELF stated Archie sonic and game sonic were equal and that was before forces came along where sonic gets way stronger.
Archie sonic>>>>game sonic
Dbs goku is not stronger then xeno goku ☠️
@@Remote.1sArchie Sonic, especially Ultra Archie Sonic is damn near god-like. Game Sonic cannot reach these feats dumbass.
Game Sonic > Super Goku
Not to mention hyper(who is canon in sonic 3) uses the master emerald which far superior than all 7 chaos emeralds combined and hyper sonic being the strongest form of sonic
The bog feat would put goku at Low complex multi
Goku solos
Sonic destroys
He just ignored the whole video just to say goku solo he just doesn't care@@nasthesamurai8988
Goku slams
@@Leo-Lapulga10 bro didn’t watch the video
@@nasthesamurai8988 i bet he was scrolling typed that and immediately left
Lets be real goku would win when hes 1 month old
Is sonic also a month old or is he normal because sonic literally has super sonic which makes invincible to damage
Bias
From their shows: anime Goku > sonic
games: game Goku > game sonic
movies: movie goku > movie sonic
Cap except Movie
Jump Force and Xenoverse Goku lmao@@JamestonBoi
@@rip_lezduit They both still lose to Sonic. Jump force Goku gets hard carried by Seiya, lol.
@@JamestonBoibud on drunks 💀🙏
Fortnite goku negs fiction
Movie Sonic is even more insane in Sonic 3. Sonic and Shadow are possibly the most OP characters now lol
This should be interesting because of the difference scaling i hear about both characters
Goku one shot sonic Goku is 3 layers into outerversal with immeasurable and irrelevant speed
Have you not the video?
@@Diamondbolt303 i have not the vidoe aswell
@@TheRefslovesMichaelJordan sadly you’re wrong little bro sonic destroys and it’s not even close
Goku is no wear near irrelevant speed. He's immeasurable speed in MUI at best.
@@nasthesamurai8988 nope Goku solos in base
This is how I scale sonic : Base Sonic (Frontiers) > Base Sonic (Forces) > Infinite > Erazor Djinn > Time Eater > Solaris
I will make it easier for you, buddy.
Super Sonic fighting Perfect Chaos = base Sonic in Generations < Time Eater < Infinite < The End =< Super Sonic in Frontiers > Solaris
Base Sonic from forces is stronger then infinite, are you serious lol
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in Boom (which is a branch of the canon), Eggman proved String theory in the season 2 episode Mombot, plus String Theory is 10-11 dimensional in nature so that would make Sonic’s cosmology 10 or 11D right?
who the hell uses boom sonic
Thanks for reminding me how awful it is to scale sonic and how awful this debate can be!
i think pikachu would win all he would need to do is go into the games/anime/comics and nintendo would file a lawsuit
The disrespect you just put on Tails…. Tails never sold the win. Hes like Bulma….
Tails is ass
W vid🔥
At some point I think I'm starting to like fictional stories that dont just give their characters stupid abilities and powers.
In sonic rush, super sonic and burning blaze fly into time to fight eggman and eggman nega and the background were galaxies so the fly the entire universe and then fly into time for final hit
Now we reached over 1000 give us a remake now pls I will sub
Just dont count the end witch is beyond all diamentions
The downplay for sonic is crazy
Goku scales to irrelevant speed.He defeated warriors in the dragon ball super manga who were cursed to be the strongest he can create universes
Sonic scales to *immeasurable* speed, Much faster than goku. Sonic running bends reality itself, he breaks the laws of physics, and can affect time and space.
@@Casual_Silverthehedgehogwell irrelevant Speed is much faster then Immeasurable Speed but goku is nowhere near that Speed
Game sonic is already ui goku level 😭what makes the goku fans think he's beating movie sonic 😭😭😭
But this doesn’t include his hyper form which is at least a hundred times stronger than super. Or Ultra which survived total reality destruction, and built it back up almost instantly. I don’t feel Goku is even close to that power even in ultra instinct, he has infinite speed but if something is instant that ignores speed
Would solaris be 7D since their super dimensional to the transcendial being who is above the time eater who is 4D
Even tho you downplayed the blue bur by quite a lot by deleting his feats from the Wii games, like when he defeated the Djinn in Lost Rings using a form (darkspine) vastly inferior to his super forms, a feet that by itself is low multiversal barely minimum, you forgot to mention Hyper Sonic. Going by games only, if we used your scaling 1-1 we can still add Hyper Sonic to the mix. Considering how much strong a super emerald is to a normal one...
This video is def gonna ruffle some feathers 😂
We just saw Sonic the hedgehog 3*SPOILER ALERT*. Sonic punched Shadow all the way to the moon, shadow landed on the moon in about 3 seconds. Sonic was on top of him about 2 seconds later. I love Goku but that feat there pretty much sums up the power difference physically. Even in ultra instinct Goku can't move that fast. Plus, Shadow and sonic took a planet destroying beam to the face and survived. Plus, shadow taking that moon landing punch, then getting back up a second later and going super again ...sheesh I need to read these sonic comics.
movie sonic is literally the weakest version of sonic
Sonic speed in combat and travel: massively faster than light to + to infinite speed to immeasurable speed layers into it to irrelevant speed
Finally you’re starting to take DB cosmology serious, Zeno’s palace is stated by V-Jump to be located in a different space. The context to that statement is when you’re in Zeno’s palace the universes have been shown that they can be any size, depending on the whims of Zeno, they literally made the universes the size of chess pieces, place them on a chessboard, the context for different clearly means a different dimensional space that can allow them to do whatever they want to do with the 4D or 5D macrocosms with basically affecting anything in them, properties of him higher dimensional spaces
Although there are different dimensions and spatial locations in the Dragon Ball universe, the concept of cosmology or its deep elaboration is not a major theme in the series. Some of these ideas are addressed more in fan-theories than in official material. Although indeed Zeno's palace appears to exist in a separate space, there is no proof or official information that this space is in another dimension higher than 3D. Zeno is shown to be capable of destroying entire universes, the claim of changing their size and placing them on a chessboard is an interpretation that has no concrete confirmation in the series or manga.
Although different dimensions exist in Dragon Ball (eg world of the living, world of the dead, etc.), the concept of 4D and 5D dimensions has not been officially confirmed. These ideas come from fan-theories and interpretations, but have no clear explanation in canon. The claim of "higher dimensional spaces" is also incorrect, or at least unproven. The idea of such dimensions again comes from fan-theories rather than official Dragon Ball canon.
@ changing the size of the universes is something that was shown in the manga, Zeno’s palace being located in a different space is something that stated by V-Jump
Video idea “Mario vs goku isn’t close”
goku neggs mario especially paper