The answer to this question is ever-changing due to the nature of writing for popular characters. As of Frontiers, Sonic is the stronger character because he’s had more screentime during games later in the timeline. For all we know the next game could come out and he doesn’t have his cyber powers anymore, and he’ll be completely equal to Shadow. He might even be portrayed as complete equals with Shadow with cyber powers, who knows? The only real satisfying answer we’ll ever get that won’t be outdated after a few years, especially now with the marketing success of the Fearless Year of Shadow, is that they are complete equals *on average.* What I’m most upset with is the complete copium from each side of the argument whenever this topic is brought up. The amount of people I’ve seen ignore the fact that Shadow let Sonic win so he could trick him with the fake emerald in their efforts to prove Sonic is superior during Generations baffles me. Equally so, the amount of people who completely ignore the multitude of implications that Sonic is definitely stronger than Shadow during Forces is baffling. My absolute favorite is when people take the dialogue in ‘06 where Shadow says something along the lines of “We’d stand a chance against Solaris… if he were still alive” completely out of context and paint it as if Sonic is so unbelievably stronger than everyone else in the game combined that he alone would allow them to stop Solaris, despite the fact the reason Shadow said this is because he, Silver, and Sonic would all have to go Super *together* to fight Solaris across the timeline or else they’d be physically unable to kill it.
@@Sarge327 thank you! No matter what, until Sega decides otherwise, they are near equal, outside of whatever gimmick is present in said game. After unleashed and Rush, the debate was Shadow couldn’t boost and had been surpassed, and then a few games later, Shadow is boosting in his boss fight in Generations. I understand people looking for a definitive answer, but just straight up ignoring key details is not going help whatever agenda they are trying to push. But at the same time, Sega not including other playable characters in these games isn’t helping anything either, and Forces kind of labeled every character outside of Sonic as worthless, so I can see where they are coming from
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.because the "boost" from removing the inhibitor rings isn't explained. In Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow is stated to be Sonic's literal equal in strength and power and speed. Meaning only plot armor matters. A literal "equal" has no advantage other than writer preference
Shadow has a Sonic Frontiers level in Shadow Generations and he went through it easily. No difficulty is implied that Shadow had any more difficulty than Sonic
2:34 Putting on my nerd glasses for this. Actually, Sonic didn't use the Master Emerald to beat Emerl. Tails used the Master Emerald to send Sonic to the Death Egg where Emerl was being held.
Sonic vs Shadow is basically Goku vs Vegeta where Goku is clearly on top but because of semantic arguments and the fact Vegeta has never directly lost to Goku people think Vegeta is stronger. The same is true for this matchup
It's weird how Vegeta is weaker than Goku but when it comes to fighting each other writers feel the need to make Vegeta win. It's starting to feel like Vegeta fan service. "Oh so sorry that Vegeta can't beat/finish off a main villain, but we'll at least make it so that he beats Goku in a 1v1".
Idk, man. The guy who was literally trained by God's since he was a kid, I would think he would be stronger than Vegeta , who prior to super had 0 formal training and was keeping up with just strength training and getting mind controlled. You should give Vegeta his props. Dude kept up with Goku with nothing but his pride and will. Honestly, I think Vegeta has won every one of their encounters. Saiyan Saga (until he got jumped) . Buu Saga ( yes goku had ssj3 but couldn't use it, doesn't excuse him losing to vegeta) and super hero movie ( which is cannon and was a fight in base , so vegeta has a stronger base)
@@TheGamingRift11 we mean they Always sometimes mc so strong nobody can beat them but that is just few sometimes there are gods or older stronger characters but thats just the story thats why
5:17 Sonic needed a power-boost to beat Shadow in the Sonic Gen, but in Shadow Gen we can see that's not what happen at all, so it doesn't really count
@@LittleMac5 Yeah but like I said, that fight doesn't really count now because of Shadow Gen, that shows what actually happen. And both of them didn't use any power-ups in the fight, Shadow just didn't want to fight at that moment since he has more important things to take care of.
@@NewVision_true I wouldn't say he didn't want to fight since it was obvious he wanted to beat Sonic but chose not to use the doom spear, or chaos control bc he had multiple amps in the game. He wanted hold back and beat Sonic using his base powers which I think included chaos spear and teleportation since he fought Sonic using those said abilities before in base with no amps. He wanted to fight Sonic on an even playing field not one where he has an advantage with the power of a chaos emerald and a fake one, and his doom powers.
The Characters don't really get "amped" when they have a chaos emerald though, they only really get amped if they actually use Chaos Powers during the fight, if they don't just having the emerald doesn't really make them stronger.
@@TheGamingRift11Chaos is also a massive exception due to its nature as a horrifically mutated Chao. The only other characters who get passively stronger just by having a Chaos Emerald are the Deadly Six, otherwise no one really gets passive power ups from the Emeralds.
Sonic Prime is canon and takes place after Advance 3. Shadow beats Sonic there. Sonic was motivated because Shadow said he was gonna kill alt universe Tails. Shadow also does way better against Grim Metal Sonic and actually defeats it. Sonic Adventure 2 hero ending isn’t canon because Eggman has all of the chaos emeralds in the TRUE ending and the eclipse canon isn’t destroyed. According to Sonic X, Shadow did lose to Sonic but it’s implied that he was only trying to delay Sonic until his real plan came to fruition. Saying he’d kill him was likely just cocky banter cause everyone on Earth was gonna die regardless. In Sonic Heroes, Team Dark actually got to cryptic castle first and Team Sonic followed them. So that could imply that either Team Sonic lost or Team Dark retreated. But I agree with your analysis on Heroes. I agree on Battle as well. In the OG Sonic Gens, the Encyclospeedia states that Sonic and Shadow couldn’t damage each other workout the energy Orbs. So in base they’re actually equal. This was retconned in Shadow Gens but even Rogue reacts with surprise “Sonic defeating you?! What happened?” She’s not use to seeing Shadow outright lose to Sonic because their fights most likely end in stalemates a lot! Also having a Chaos Emerald isn’t an automatic amp. If it was Sonic had 2 chaos emeralds by the time he fought Shadow in Gens. Sonic had 2 from Eggman and Metal Sonic. Simply holding the chaos emeralds isn’t an amp unless you’re specifically drawing from their power. Also IDW is canon and Shadow was able to knock Super Neo Metal out of his Super Form while he bullied Sonic and Knuckles. Also Shadow was able to solo an entire army of Shadow androids that were bullying Sonic and his friends. Shadow was amped by fake Chaos energy but Sonic has that ability as well Sonic and Shadow are always stated to be equals or relative. I believe they can beat each other depending on the circumstances. That’s why games usually have Sonic (us) win but nearly every show (Canon or non canon) portrays Shadow as better
Prime and IDW has too many contradictions to the Canon Shadow didn't beat him in Prime he was trying to take his gear Hero ending is canon...the eclipse Cannon was damaged and Eggman didn't know Sonic was alive He didn't lost in Sonic Heroes it was a tie neither won the fight. Shadow caught Neo Metal off guard. He would have gotten the Same beating Sonic and Knuckles have gotten
Doom wings isn't just him having wings. It's his new super form. He is invincible when using it just like in super form. theoretically if super was stacked on Doom wings it may be similar to cyber super sonic in power. (Key word theoretically.)
Sega said if shadow's popularity rises they will do more games with him. Maybe from sonic frontiers 2 we'll get multiple playable characters who knows...
I think that’s dumb since wasn’t Shadow always a fan favourite? With some people even preferring him to Sonic? Sonic team really needs to get with the times
It's Sega's problem overall. Majima is the most popular character in Yakuza series, but they still don't understand why, and only now doing 2 game for him where he is playable. Sega surely have a communication issues
Fun fact: Sonic technically really is the Ultimate lifeform! Well sorta. Its implied that shadow was based on the mural of super sonic in the s3ak hidden palace (that would also explain why his quills are more similar to the super sonic quills than the normal quills). So while shadow is the true ultimate lifeform he was based on sonic which sorta confirms sonic is also in a way the ultimate lifeform. Also just in case i am writing this after watching half of the video so dont judge me if this is mentioned.
this is a theory still not confirmed its a huge popular fan theory that makes a lot of sense but Sega did not confirm this. the main dead give away was when they went super they look completely alike in sa2 and sa1 super sonic even gba versions.
@@DragonLord555 you good bro. its possible one day they can confirm this. i mean we still dont know why he was created to be a hedgehog one of these years we might get the answer but to be honest most of shadow life is already answered. not sure how they gonna just throw in that fact unless they make another shadow game giving us (oh here is a fun fact shadow meant to be a super hedgehog) lol
On the first point: That actually wasn't Shadow's full objective as Shadow was knowledgeable OF Gerald's initiation of the ARK's direct crash course to Earth. It was never stated he wasn't aware and didn't seem surprised, so he really could have been trying to stall Sonic out for it to happen. Even if Sonic DID win, this doesn't mean that Sonic wasn't trying in the fight. Sure Sonic was in a rush to blow up the Eclipse Cannon before it would go off, but surely that's more reason enough to try that much harder to stop it before it does anything. So, I do believe that it was a rather even fight, especially since it's been stated that they were rather equal at the time. A fight is dictated by more than just power, but also circumstance. Also, the last part about Shadow saying Sonic is the Ultimate Lifeform may more just be an act of passing down the mantle as earlier in the Finalhazard fight, it was stated that Shadow was getting tired (this is his first usage of the Super form) and that may have known he might not make it. Either that or it could just be him admitting that in terms of heroism and mentality, that he is more deserving of the title. Especially since they are rather equal in power overall. On the second point: Whether the other endings of Shadow 05 are non-canon or not, I don't think it matters all TOO much. I think the other endings are valid in terms of the possibility of these things happening. Such as Shadow being able to take on Sonic and Diablon at the same time. I believe that it shows the potential of power Shadow is very well capable of reaching. On the third point: The "amping" doesn't really happen. Just because the emerald is within possession, it doesn't automatically mean that one is actually using the power to empower themselves. The only instance of this would be when they actively USE the emeralds' power with Chaos Control. Unless directly stated or shown, I wouldn't say that anyone is amped with the emeralds. Thus, really the fight was still balanced even without the amping. I don't think Shadow lags behind here in terms of power in regards to Sonic either. Shadow did have to clear an entire level, to get to Eggman to interrogate him, rush over to save Sonic (who was definitely struggling against Silver even after knowing his moves and SHOULD have been fast enough to expect his future attacks), and fold the white boy. Not exactly indicative of Shadow on the scaling chain. On the fourth point: Lancelot, if he is anything like Shadow on their first meetup, most likely underestimated a "knave" like Sonic, but the rematch is fair. However, unsure about it's canonicity considering it IS post-game material. Not saying it isn't canon, but I'm just not sure. It's like replaying a boss on hard-mode, though who really knows. This one is fine. On the fifth point: Even taking Shadow Generations into account, neither Sonic or Shadow could really do any significant damage to one another unless they used the Energy Core against one another. Either way, they were equally matched and had to amp themselves to do anything significant. However, still agree with the equalization here. On the sixth point: This isn't implying that Shadow couldn't replicate the same feat. Just because Sonic was shown to kind of match and struggle with the clones, it doesn't mean that Shadow isn't able to do it as well. Nothing really implying power superiority in the intro sequence. He doesn't really tag Infinite either in it since Infinite was just outright finessing him. In Episode Shadow, the example you used isn't exactly a fair comparison since this is Shadow before the 6-months and this was from a sneak attack planned by Infinite and the Sonic you used was after the six months where he's obviously grown in power. Sonic also visibly was trying to protect himself against an attack from the Clone Shadow (which means he recognizes Shadow's power and sees him as a threat if he went against him), to which Shadow bodies immediately. I think there's not too much to conclude who is superior aside from the bad writing of Forces basically rendering any other character that WOULD be relative or equal to Sonic useless. Could say that Sonic might be stronger, but Forces writing is a headache so it just baffles me. Big unsure here. Fight breakdown evaluation: Mephiles analysis is meh. It doesn't translate since Shadow needed Chaos Boost to do significant damage to Mephiles since Mephiles in his monster form was pretty much invulnerable until Chaos Boost is used. Also, it's obvious that these bosses aren't just past version, but versions of them that seem to be stronger as they have new capabilities they didn't originally have before (such as the limbs mutation that Biolizard has). For the Doom powers, Doom Surf is actually more useful than Sonic's water running thing in concept. There's a difference between just running across water and using something like a boat or a more aquatically-tuned vehicle to traverse. It is more practical and allows more advanced maneuvers in water. Logically, it makes sense. It isn't an anti-feat for Shadow either as in the Shadow Rival Battle in Gens, Shadow moves at the same speed as Sonic so it isn't like Shadow is slower or can't do what Sonic does. For Doom Wing, that isn't really an argument. Just because Sonic has fought flying enemies before, it doesn't give him any inherent advantage. Shadow has ALSO fought airborne enemies before. It's the fact that Doom Wing is specifically rather powerful it seems and it ALSO gives Shadow invulnerability in-game, so it is a direct boost in durability and seemingly power due to the final fight. I will say one thing that in Frontiers, there IS idle dialogue that mentions that Sonic "wouldn't mind Shadow's help". This could imply that Sonic sees Shadow as someone that could actually really help right now. Whether it implies power equality, unsure. Though if even Sonic is giving props to Shadow, I think that may make them comparable. Conclusion: This analysis has some issues in my opinion, but it isn't a horrible analysis. It wasn't a toxic exchange where disrespect was thrown towards a character's way nor was it toxic and I do appreciate that from a powerscaling video. Especially one that involves both Sonic and Shadow (as those debates can get rather heated). I like to keep civility, really. However I will say one thing and that the Sonic Verse has never truly had power creep. The world's powerscaling has never been a focus in-verse and most of the time, the characters are comparable to one another and capable of putting up a good fight against one another or threats similar to themselves. It may have some shonen instances, but the Sonic Verse somewhat scales itself and/or leaves the scaling to the side for the sake of gameplay and/or story. Which brings me to my next point, I think taking the context of certain story beats, the intentions and knowledge of characters, and the events that transpire as a result of them into account does help with powescaling in a roundabout way or provides more context to certain feats as the "superior fighter" often doesn't just come down to a winner or loser, but the lead-up. Sorry if this is long, I just thought I should passionately give my review/criticism on this matter as I am rather knowledgeable on many facets of Sonic and Shadow stuff.
Yeah I do agree with some parts but also if Shadow knew about the Eclipse cannons true function, why would he even try stop Sonic from blowing it up? He’d be aware sonic is wasting his time as blowing up the weapon doesn’t prevent the threat that Gerald created
@@TheGamingRift11That is up to interpretation as you can clearly see Shadow is chilling on the ARK after the fight. He isn’t trying to stop Sonic or anything.
@@TheGamingRift11 Again, fighting Sonic means stalling him. Which means less chance of them figuring out anything about Gerald's true intentions of "even if x happens, Gerald had this as a true plan". He would be FULLY aware that Sonic is wasting time and that's the point. Gerald had a real Doomsday Plan ready in case. Shadow DID have his memories specifically altered by Gerald himself and Shadow actually outsmarted Eggman with the plan Gerald had that Shadow followed through on.
SEGA never said it was a tie. Shadow outright said he wanted to end sonic. Sonic is still aIive so if shadow win, why is sonic still here? Make it make sense.
L video since we’re comparing two different time periods against each other towards the end instead of just natural stats. If Shadow was in frontiers, then they would just be equal again. If Shadow got his own game past frontiers, he would be “stronger” even though we know the entire cast is getting stronger in the background. These two will always be equal with outside factors determining who wins. Sonic will always have the edge since the series is named after him. Shadow will always be just as strong because he’s the rival and second most popular character. The end
@@daj7237 I compared the strong versions of Sonic and Shadow shown in the games without superforms It’s not the fault of the video that Shadows last canonical appearance was in Forces and Sonics was in Frontiers 🤷♂️
@ but it’s the foolishness of the title of the video itself…”not even close” when they are literally created to always be close and are shown to be close anytime they interact is wild man. You even mention it at the end of the video…
@@TheGamingRift11 Shadow Gens is canon His last appearance was NOT in forces 💀 Also Frontiers Sonic is a victim without the emeralds That's literally the reason why you're spending 80% of the game collecting them to begin with
@@TheGamingRift11its still misleading though? Why even compare 2 people from 2 different times? Who is stronger end of series sasuke or naruto when he first fought haku? Makes no sense If you cant acuratly scale them then dont, dont pretend to have cracked the code if its all misleading at best and flat out wrong at worst. A more usefull video would have been to compare the unique powers they have.
Sega & Sonic Team: "Sonic & Shadow are still equals in every regard, and that won't change." Fans: "Sonic vs Shadow isn't even close! Shadow stands no chance!" I find it hilarious how fans keep asking who wins for years & Sega/Sonic Team are like: "they're equals in every way so who knows?"
@@LittleMac5 i mean nobody knows who wins in adventure 2 as there is no clear cut stated winner from Sega just rando fan speculation, generations its shown Shadow was holding back and hesitated which gave Sonic his opening to beat him so that barely counts, meanwhile Shadow stomps Sonic with the gun commander backing him up in his own game, and Silver beats Sonic but Shadow claps Silver in 06, and no the win against Lancelot doesn't count as that is not Shadow. soooooooo do you even play the games i wonder?
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.he had WAY more games than shadow and is the main character so that's not really a valid argument for a fight between two characters described as equals
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.then Vegeta is always stronger than Goku, cause by your logic, he canonically never beat him in a one on one…lol there’s factors to these things
You know I'm curious this matchup has been so contentious for so long but after SxSG...I honestly want to know how you feel about Infinite vs Mephiles with all biases aside as quite frankly Mephiles suffers from severe power creep thanks to this game
I dunno you didn't mention that the Doom Wings gives Shadow invulnerability like the Super Forms do. Also I thought Eggman was in possession of the final chaos emerald in SA2 after fighting Tails, so doesn't that mean Shadow fought Sonic with zero emeralds in their last fight in SA2 or am I forgetting something? Also Sonic mission was to destroy the Eclipse cannon by shoving the fake emerald in the Eclipse cannon, thus destroying it yet in Shadow 05 the eclipse cannon is still functional so doesn't that mean Sonic failed thus making it a tie?
sonic surviving the titans is impressive. in the flash backs we see that these weren't made with metal, they were generated completely by the power of the chaos emeralds.
Sonic being tired in the in the first interaction is an opinion. Sonic didn’t win the 3rd fight. It was confirmed that it was a draw. Even if Shadow the hedgehog endings weren’t canon. It is still theoretically what would happen had they fought at the time. Shadow was stronger than Sonic here.
*Sonic vs Shadow isn't a stomp because writers wont make it a stomp.* Even after Frontiers, Sonic vs Shadow is always going to be depicted as a tough matchup
Yeah, no, shadow wins. *Bruh everyone be talking about shadow needing to use doom surf to go on water and yet sonic couldn't even run on water in frontiers* 💀
Is that a hint of biased opinion I smell? All jokes aside sonic just has way more feats then shadow. Shadow can use all the chaos emeralds he wants but it's no use.
@@lordx8844 Definitely not if we talking frontiers sonic. Any other version of sonic would lose to shadow extreme diff he would have to take off his ring inhibators
@@TanJurine5873 we didn't even see shadow in Frontiers to draw any conclusions on whether or not he had gotten stronger as well. It was stated several times they were equal in every way so that could mean, just like sonic he gets stronger as time passes on.
Sonic vs Shadow is way too hard than it needs to be. My mindset is either they equally win which is most likely or Sonic wins purely because he has more experience and is faster. Sega keeps saying they’re equal but it just keeps getting debunked over and over and over again.
The idea of characters "getting stronger" isn't a good argument. Classic Sonic beat Chaos 0 in one hit, scaling him above Adventure Sonic. These things don't make sense. Characters are only scaled up to the game they are in. Its why Classic Sonic can perform feats above his Sonic Adventure counterpart if thats game the game environment. Put Shadow in Sonic Frontiers and he will sweep it as easily as in Shadow Generations. Because Shadow in Chaos Island scaled up to that Cyber location simply by being in the game
Because it’s basically stated it’s different classic sonic from the one from previous games since that classic sonic was from generations So basically even tho it’s applied that classic sonic and modern sonic are the same generations and forces basically made changed classic sonic timeline so meaning that version of classic sonic is lot different from the one that became modern sonic The chaos island wouldn’t really scale shadow in any way as that’s like saying time eater would solo Solaris by this logic and cyber locations wouldn’t scale shadow either to be honest
The real pain in the ass thing about this debate is that not only does Shadow have multiple Chaos powers but also that he is limited by his Inhibitor Rings to keep him from tiring himself out. The fact that he’s being held back is an argument people would bring up but it’s hard to agree with considering there’s clearly more focus on Sonic in the games which just adds more fuel to the fire in this debate as while we know Shadow is powerful, it’s hard to reach a definitive answer when we’ve see Sonic pull crazy stuff like outrunning a growing black hole for around 30 seconds while the games haven’t shown Shadow pulling off anything on that level. It’s basically a debate on what you know of one character vs speculations on another. I honestly don’t see us ever getting a definitive answer, which is just how Sega roles with the Sonic series. I mean, we’ll all be dead before they even give us an actual origin to what the heck the Chaos Emeralds are, so I honestly find the true answer to this debate as mute. Doesn’t mean it isn’t fun to come back to ever now and again.
I’m not gonna watch this video so don’t feel the need to read this comment but there’s really no point to arguing about this, they are equals, and are quite clearly equals, sometimes sonic will win sometimes shadow will win. Sonic says in shadow generations he won “this one” which means he wins and loses all the time otherwise he would say I won again. And anyone who thinks shadow is holding back. In sa2 it was a fight to the death and sonic won, why would shadow be holding back then?
Here’s one weird thing about comparing Doom Morph to Sonic already being able to run on water. The fight is between Frontiers Sonic and Generations Shadow. Frontiers Sonic isn’t never ran on water. If he was, we would’ve been able to do so and it likely would’ve been really helpful tbh. But he sinks. It’s also pretty clear that the cyber abilities are stronger because they literally are better oriented towards combat, while Shadow’s powers give him a better edge on traversal. He literally becomes better capable of traversing the land, sea and sky with Morph, Surf and Wings and accesses areas otherwise impossible with Spear and Blast. Ironically, Shadow probably would’ve prospered a lot more than Sonic in exploring the open zones of the Starfall Islands (if he at least had the cyloop of course to access puzzles). While Sonic’s cyber powers, besides the cyloop never gave him access to more areas, it was only his standard hedgehog powers he relied on for traversal. Also I wanna point out that the thing you said about Silver getting amped by the blue chaos emerald during his second encounter with Sonic. He’s not. Neither the gameplay nor the story support that. Until they cast chaos control or collect them all to achieve their super form, all they’re holding are glowing rocks.
Also Shadow not being able to break free in Forces was not due to power but Shadow's mental hang ups. Also Sonic escaping Null space was because he and the avatar worked together. It wasn't Sonic by himself. It's hard to give Sonic any solo wins because after Sonic is freed he and the avatar work togetherness most of the game. Also as it's been established team work and friendship in the Sonic verse amps your power dramatically.
@@Dripichigo-m7j Dr Eggman- What! It’s impossible to escape from the phantom ruby’s null space! Sonic- *Maybe by myself but I had a little help from my friend* . Something you wouldn’t understand since you don’t have any friends. Sonic outright states that he wouldn’t have been able to escape null space by himself. If you still don’t believe me watch the cutscene right after Sonic escapes from Null Space
Shadow often questions his own existence, but he probably questions Sonic's existence as well. Shadow was created in a laboratory to be the ultimate life form, he was made from an evil alien's DNA and is basically a living chaos emerald, and then you have Sonic who can do almost everything Shadow can do but a little better and he was born naturally
Nice! Although I’d argue the Doom Powers give him a huge amp in power. They practically make him a Super Form, him being invincible, giving off yellow aura, the super electricity, and him even being able to fight Neo Devil Doom who was from the future (Gerald states this apparently), being similar to the Super form. And Sonic implies in Frontiers that Shadow is still relative to him, and as of TailsTube it’s implied they can still bout on equal terms. So I’d say Doom Shadow >>>> Frontiers Sonic
😂 that dosen't mean he is super and the Hedgehog has fought beings that are more dangerous then doom shadow dude like what? And I'm not sure if that's canon also really yellow aura and electricity you do know that wouldn't mean super right and Neo Doom could of been talking about super shadow not just all super form😅
OK, the video is good, but where this argument completely falls apart is the fact that shadow gets teleported to one of sonic frontiers Islands where he straight up one shot the ancient robots on the island showing that even though they’re separated by a large amount of time, they are still some close in power
Sonic stomps. Don't let the Shadow glazing from other media fool you, the main game Modern Sonic is a beast. Shadow was created to be the ultimate life form, he was literally built to be the best, and he loses to Sonic. Sonic is the true all natural ultimate life form.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 they're stated as equals ofc in the games there's going to be moments where sonic beats shadow because he's the main character. If we go outside of gameplay instances we are shown they are equally matched like in Sonic Prime which is canon
@@MeepinMehprime contradicts itself with its shit portrayal of sonic. Just cuz sega says its canon, doesnt mean it should be taken seriously considering they play with the canon like its a fucking joke “everything is canon” like come on now.
Because inhibitor rings dont have enough evidence to suggest it would cziose the gap. If sonic no difs shadow, what is the propf inhibitor rings would cIose that gap? Sonic will just beat no inhibitor rings shadow too.
The inhibitor rings would be a death sentence for shadow since whilst yes it gives him a massive boost it also robs him of his immortality since removing the rings for too long is one of the few things that will kill him Also he doesn’t have that great feats with the rings removed anyways
@@LittleMac5 Gerald stated that in regards to how Shadow was at that point. With all the doom powers he had on top of the power he already had? Yeah, of course he'd blow up. Not to say a similar thing wouldn't eventually happen normally, but it would probably be almost immediate with Doom Shadow.
Yeah, Shadow is gonna need way more adventures and growth in his power if he ever dreams of beating Sonic, and even then Sonic is likely to get far stronger over time so at that point, Shadow, like Metal Sonic, will ultimately be nothing to Sonic power wise.
In my vision and opinion, Shadow wins this fight, he is the Ultimate Lifeform after all. Shadow has the chaos powers and is physically stronger than Sonic, the only thing Shadow doesn't have is the super speed that Sonic has. Sonic is stronger with his speed, Shadow is just stronger and can use his chaos powers such as chaos control that requires a chaos emerald, chaos snap ( short teleportation ) for agility and combat, and other chaos powers. Well, just by watching Shadow fight against the black arms in Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow has combat experience, even Maria asks Shadow when did he learn to fight the way he did. Although Sonic has experience in combat, so does Shadow. I know that in SA2 Shadow and Sonic get exhausted fighting each other and Shadow probbably have never found a chalenge before, but if Shadow had the intention to kill Sonic, he would kill him, but he didn't wanted to do that because of the way he is, regardless his veangeful and hatred feeling for Maria's death, and his mind being manipulated by Gerald, Shadow has a pure heart, he saved Rouge when he could take those chaos emeralds and leave without her. Shadow is soft, kind. To be honest, Shadow only lost to Sonic in Sonic X Shadow Generations because he let him win, It would be too unfair for Shadow to use those doom chaos powers, although it would hurt Sonic a lot more. Also, Shadow tricking Sonic with the fake emerald was a smart move to acomplish his plans without interruptions. I'd say Shadow got a lot stronger over the time just like Sonic. In my vision, Shadow is superior than Sonic, in terms of strenght and power, but not faster than Sonic. Well, this is my opinion and I know I will never change this.
9:18 ngl i find the doom spears pretty weak in gameplay terms its just a better version of chaos spears which the better part is you being able to use 5 they are similar and just stuns the opponent hell it just stuns normal robots for crying out loud
To be fair, the Doom Wings are very much the "equivalent" of an unique Super form for Shadow. By the way, I think for the 2000s Sonic games you should check the Japanese scripts instead of the English ones, considering the JP scripts were written first.
The comics makes this even harder. They have a squabble early on and Shadow gets the edge but neither were trying their hardest. They also rarely fight the same opponents. Closest we get is Metal Sonic. Shadow kinda loses because Metal is retreating with Eggman.
I really liked the abilities sonic had in frontiers especially the energy attacks. I hope they expand on them in the next game. And allow them to be used in boost gameplay if it’s there.
the fact that THE defining game for one of the two characters in the TITLE of the video only gets less than 20 seconds of screen time shows me just how biased this video was before you even started working on it
i don't know if it's entirely accurate to only use power scaling to settle in-series debates. canon is also important and as far as the series itself is concerned, sonic and shadow are always portrayed as equal, even if sonic has more feats (naturally, he's the main character with the most screentime)
Not only that but y’all forget that those rings on Shadow’s wists hold back his true power,so every time he fights Sonic he’s not even using half of his full power,and he can use Chaos control without the emeralds as shown in the comics which are canon to the games.Shadow also has doom powers,so even if their base physical stats are equal,shadow can use his full power+doom powers+chaos control he stomps Sonic bad😂😂😂
Ehhh, I'm sure Shadow will catch up a couple games from now assuming SEGA decides his popularity is ascendant enough for him to get deuteragonist status back.
I want to see a fight between BASE frontiers sonic and BASE Archie sonic no new powers no nothing just their regular base sonic kit with no other transformations and powers
Omega stated that Sonic is Shadow's equal in speed and strength on two occasions. The winner depends on the plot and whoever is playable. Moreover, everyone gets stronger over time if the gameplay demands it. People thought that Sonic far surpassed everyone because he beat Perfect Chaos without the chaos emeralds. ..... 😊And then Shadow does the same to Metal Overlord, whom the player can beat without using chaos control or doom powers other than doom surf.
Tbh shadow at his full power would always allow him to contend with sonic except in 1 scenario. Only if he removes his inhibitor rings, which in every fight he has with sonic, he refuses to do. In 06, shadow was able to beat mephiles while he was amped by 2 chaos emeralds by removing his inhibitor rings so his inhibitor rings can give him soo much of a boost in power that it surpasses the power of 2 chaos emeralds. Sonic can't get a boost in power like that. Only in frontiers could sonic actually rival that kind of power only in his super form. Just imagine the power of 2/7ths of a super form. Do a little bit power scaling and you'll see how much it is. Basically it's the like kaioken but with the flaws of SSJ3. Although shadow will lose against SS2 sonic/cyber sonic regardless since super sonic couldn't even damage the end in his super form and had to go all out to defeat the end. Shadow will not be able to replicate that kind of power.
I'm not gonna bother trying to debate this as its gone on for so long that its just annoying now but I will say that the two are equally matched. Sonic is faster but Shadow is fast enough to not get blitzed, Shadow is stronger but sonic is strong enough to match him.
Here's what I'm going to say about the Sonic versus Shadow debate In most cases I feel that Sonic and Shadow are pretty relative in well everything It's just Sonic is the main character so we see him do more but there's nothing to say that if you were to just take Sonic's games and make Shadow the protagonist instead That shadow couldn't do the same things so it's honestly a toss up in my opinion
Sonic. Reason: perfect Chaos. In Sonic adventure, in order to defeat perfect chaos, Sonic needed to go super, and even then, this was just to stop Chaos, an immortal being/god. Fast foward Sonic generations, he had to fight perfect Chaos again, but this time, no super form. And he defeat him. Up to that point, Shadow's biggest feat by himself was in shadow the hedgehog, going super against the Black Doom. We saddly have too little of shadow doing things by himself.
Im considering all media, even animation. But usually what comes down with those 2 is story vs gameplay: Purely on story, shadow is portraiyed stronger, during gameplay, sonic being the playable characters win the fight On animation mainly, shadow is almost always portraiyed strongest And not forgetting that when they are on pair, most of time Sonic is on pair with shadow having inhibitors rings
sonic can use chaos control and chaos spear and chaos blast except he can summon the explosion anywhere also he has this thing where he can do some kind of telekenises thing where he insta destroys a full on army
In Sonic X Shadow Generations, after Chaos Island Omega States that Sonic is Shadow's Equal in Speed and Strength, but that Shadows abilities are artificial while Sonic's abilities are natural and latent. That being said I will say that Sonic would win more times than none because Sonic's natural talent will give him more adaptability to different battles and situations. Shadow could win 4/10 since he also can adapt quickly and has a lot of experience but Sonic has more experience and he would take the win
Hey, silver fan here. How fast do you think silver is. Like a percentage of sonic's speed. Just curious cuz i think silver has a speed near sonic's or atleast that's, what i get from the gens boss fight since sonic actually needs to try when he tries to catch up to silver in order to attack. Also, silver wins
One thing I'd like to note with Shadow is that in Shadow generations it's said that Doom wing Shadow was so strong that if he removed his wrist rings it would be dangerous and he could explode. It's a bummer because Shadow with Doom wings, Super form, and no wrists rings combined could have been really powerful for Shadow.
I mean,considering the Súper form's Invulnerability,Maybe you could argue In Súper Shadow Could Survive Using his Doom Powers and taking his inhibitors off
@@hackerninjaexe5791 that Happened because It was his first Time Going super,and he got tired,its implied in Shadow the Hedgehog that When he clashed Down on earth he hit the Planet as Súper Shadow,and that is what allowed him to survive,and then a Eggman robot Found him,and Got him into Eggman's bases,then he got Healed,then heroes happened
@ he still technically got tired and damaged during that tho and that the same would have happened to sonic so shadow going super “the first time” wouldn’t matter So basically him going super having doom powers while having his rings removed would just be too much for him to handle regardless
If the fight is Sonic frontiers Sonic and Shadow with the doom powers, then honestly Shadow probably wins, it seems a lot of people don’t know or forget that the doom wings grant invincibility when shadow uses them, he doesn’t take damage when ever the doom wings are active
Honestly that depends on what writer you ask. Some writers like the one who wrote the Scrapnik Island mini arc for the IDW Comics state that characters like Mecha Sonic from the Classic Era are still just as fast as modern day Sonic, even in his current state of disrepair and mismatched parts. Meanwhile the writers for Generations and the Sonic Encyclospeedia state that Sonic is constantly getting stronger and faster with every game, to the point where Sonic can beat villains that previously required a super form to beat like Perfect Chaos.
Listen. Shadow wins in that final fight in SA2 because the dark side ending is Canon. Because it leads into last story, and shadow wins in the dark side ending.
Doesn't really matter Honestly. Despite everything, Sega still deems these two are still on par. Not having feats is only a matter of who Sega needs to lead. If Shadow ever gets a main lead, he'll beat big bads that may scale above Sonic. But it doesn't mean Sonic couldn't beat that said boss.
I don't think either won on sa2 final battle between sonic or shadow. I believe while Sonic and Shadow were 'Racing to the core to slam dunk it in there', Robotnik got a hold of the final emerald and rushed to the console and planted it in his machine, while Sonic escaped from Shadow (With falling platforms and stuff, probably got seperated) and he tossed his fake emerald into the core, thinking he jammed the cannon and successfully stopped the plan of firing another laser. Then if we think that sonic destroyed the eclipse canon then how are we going to explain the events of shadow the hedgehog 2005. Shadow needed the fully functional eclipse canon to destroy the black arms. So ya they tied in the final battle.....
Shadow is DEFINITELY physically stronger than Sonic that’s for sure. They may be equal everywhere else but this isn’t debatable. Shadow picks up cars and other objects that weigh TONS with ease and punches Bullet Bill sized objects with his bare hands. Sonic isn’t shown to have strength feats like shadow and knuckles. Outside of metal piercing homing attacks.
most things in this video seems accurate but im sorry, sonic ''holding his own'' against the forces villains is hilarious. the guy got rekt. owned. molly whopped. bullied even. 6 months later after his supposed uncle iroh training arc in prison every enemy he did fight from that og group required a whole boss fight while shadow needed one kick to get rid of his dupe. one that scaled directly to himself when it was created. it's also odd to just accept that sonic has more experience when shadow gens just proved the guy does his own shit in the background too. that all does become moot by frontiers scaling yes but before that it seemed a bit too heavy on the shadow downplay
@@LittleMac5 their first fight infinite treated sonic like a ragdoll, the second fight he beat him in a boss fight only for infinite to go ultra shaggy with the ''that wasn't even 0.001% of my power'' and no diff him in the cutscene afterwards, and finally they'd have all been turned to dust if the rookie didn't happen to have a phantom ruby prototype on him and infinite in his infinite wisdom didn't decide to throw a second sun. also when was shadow afraid of infinite? this isn't a denial i haven't played forces in ages so i don't recall that
@@bluephoenix_z3364 is that the cutscene where shadow says "as it stands there's no way we can win this?" And sonic going "of course we can! We just haven't figured that part out yet?" If it is, that is not fear, that is Shadow being practical and Sonic being optimistic, a rare true to their character interaction for Forces.
Sonic prior to the time skip did briefly hold his own in a 1v5 - with one of those fighters being infinite himself Obviously sonic stood no chance of being victorious but it’s still impressive to mention regardless
@@LittleMac5 i ain't sayin' sonic isn't impressive or trying to downplay the dude, because in that six months he obviously did get stronger which infinite obviously did notice. that increase in strength still amounted to nothing in that fight tho. as for shadow he was working with Rouge during that game to find the source of Infinite's power, that's how they learned about it in the first place. sonic was fighting and losing but still getting stronger while shadow was being tactical which both contributed to the victory at the end of the game
Sonic would win most fights but not all of them because sometimes all it takes is one mistake to turn the fight into the opponent's favour. So Shadow would win a few fights. Eventually Shadow would win more fights than Sonic but it would be due to Sonic reaching old age status since he doesn't have immortality like Shadow.
@@LittleMac5 Deadpool has beaten Spider-Man tho lmao And Sonic can't keep up with Shadow forever. Shadow will keep growing forever while Sonic will get older & slow down.
Honestly they should be on the same level, make Sonic slighty faster, but Shadow slighty physically stronger It'd make their dynamic interesting & cool
@@LittleMac5 I mean, we haven't seen Shadow after Forces in the canon, but right now based on the last time we've seen Shadow. Then yea Frontiers Sonic beats Forces Shadow
@ nah do you read the comics or seen sonic x the original Japanese dub where both in both case knuckles and shadow tied or shadow took his inhibitor rings just get the upper hand
1:25 that statement is false and also going off their original story. Shadow was supposed to die in that game. He was never planned to come back so I'm not looking at this at modern. I'm looking at this at the time of writing like they were not expecting Shadow to be a recurring character. And illiterant view when Shadow says this Shadow was low on energy, but Sonic he will still have power. He still was in a super form so that's why he said that
@SAMURAIPACK456 it mostly took super sonic and just weird powered up versions of knuckles and Tails? Perfect chaos is powerful then void who created the precioustone that contains universes/dreams which were said to be infinite
SEGA has a mandate that Sonic must come out on top by the end of the game and must be the most powerful character. If you don't believe this, tell me the canonical ending to every mainline Sonic game since 1991.
Sonic was also fatigued in the final shadow fight in adventure 2 and he still beat a bloodlusted shadow while he was holding back btw team Sonic is implied to have low diffed team dark so that’s another win Sonic was stated in the 06 prima guide to be holding back against silver in their fight so suppressed Sonic>>>silver~shadow Sonic has always been stronger than shadow and always will be stronger than him
The green emerald didn't amp shadow you need all the emeralds in order to get an amp that being super sonic or shadow the emeralds don't grant you power by itself ik we have superstars but that was confirmed to be from the island in that game
Chaos in Adventure 1 is confirmed to get more powerful with each emerald in its possession - with emeralds also granting unique abilities which grant an edge in combat
@@TheGamingRift11it doesn't do that for sonic and shadow because they have no transformation when having 1 or 2 emeralds my point is back upped further with sonic generations sonic had 6 emeralds and wasn't amped in power and even before sonic. Had emeralds he's still confirmed to be stronger than his past selfs like Dreamcast era sonic unleashed sonic and colors sonic and everything in between. Chaos was the exception but exceptions don't make the standards
I have another example sonic in frontiers when you get a emerald isn't confirmed to be stronger nor does he feel stronger during combat if the emeralds for sonic and Shadow's case gave them an amp which it doesn't but let's say for the sake of the argument it did nothing changed and it still isn't confirmed they still need all 7 to bring out the full potential of said emeralds .
@@LittleMac5 actually if you pay attention and stop meat riding for a second I have 2 comments that are in deeper details such as if they we're amped it would have been stated and the gameplay would feel different you don't believe me boot up sonic frontiers play as base sonic with a emerald obtained then play as super sonic 1 and then play super sonic 2 and you'll see what I'm talking about and if you're too lazy I'll charge my switch and do it for you
@@LittleMac5 are you dumb nobody was talking about the story I'm talking about gameplay buddy I said play as base sonic with emeralds obtained then play as normal super sonic (see the power difference) then play as super sonic 2 who in lore and gameplay is stronger than super sonic v1 you clearly can't pay attention you comment back to me talking about needing super sonic to beat the titans which is good that you know but nobody is talking about that.🤦♂️
Didn't understood arguments from the moment with forces. The problem is that Sega's logic is very idiotic. When we are talking about Forces we have to understand that for the most of the time Shadow is actually doing nothing 😂😂 and even then he managed to oneshot he's copy by using Chaos control without chaos emerald and this time bending also managed to stun even Sonic, then Sonic had to waste the time to stop even fake Zavok or destroy fake Metal Sonic with help of doubleboost(thanks to Avatar). So where is this power showned? In battle with Infinite or final boss? Well I don't see any problem for Shadow in battle with Infinite because Shadow has the same statistics as Sonic(in video this was said already), especially then in final battle with Infinite Sonic also needed help from Avatar and Final boss also needed help from Avatar and classic Sonic, so in this case the hole argument that Sonic in Forces is stronger than Shadow is based on nothing, just because Sega as we saw didn't wanted to create a logical story. Now about Frontiers... Why do we compare Sonic from Frontiers with Shadow from Generations(even when Shadow has doom power's)? It's unlogical because Sonic from Frontiers already growned up and for that becamed stronger. It would have logic to compare power's of this two hedgehogs only if we would see Shadow in Frontiers and would see what do Shadow learned for so much time and how powerful he becamed but we don't have anything, so with arguments from Frontiers I can't agree. Also let's not forget about inhibitor rings which Shadow can take down and just became unstoppable machine. Yeah for time but Shadows stats without inhibitor rings are actually way bigger then we think and way bigger than Sonic's stats.
Dude 😂, shadow is literally stronger than knuckles and sonic combined. Plus, people take when Shadow said, "You might be the ultimate life form sonic." That was a sign of respect. Shadow has sonic in 3 categories, bro raw physical strength, chaos abilities, and durability, bro. People keep disrespecting him because they won't do him justice, and a statement he said out of respect 😂 shadow acknowledges how strong sonic is but they are not equals by a large margin bro stop it. In a straight-up fight utilizing chaos powers and strength alone the blue hedgehog gets clapped just stop sleeping on this dude already it's just a game not what it is, situations be different or bad timing for a fight. 😂😂
What can Sonic do that Shadow can't? Watching this guy downplay doom powers is hilarious when Frontiers Sonic has even less abilities that can actually help him against Shadow 💀
Well sonic is the main character and shadow has not had is own game since 2005 besides shadow generations it's like comparing a main character that constantly gets new feats vs a character in the same story who is equal but has nowhere the same amount of feats and screentime and games or movies comics
![โอ้เธอช่าง... - บี้เดอะสกา ft. ต๋อง เทวัญ (Prod. by ป๋าเพชร) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zbWhiLFmVL0/mqdefault.jpg)
Basically Sonic is Free to play while Shadow is Pay to play.
The answer to this question is ever-changing due to the nature of writing for popular characters. As of Frontiers, Sonic is the stronger character because he’s had more screentime during games later in the timeline. For all we know the next game could come out and he doesn’t have his cyber powers anymore, and he’ll be completely equal to Shadow. He might even be portrayed as complete equals with Shadow with cyber powers, who knows? The only real satisfying answer we’ll ever get that won’t be outdated after a few years, especially now with the marketing success of the Fearless Year of Shadow, is that they are complete equals *on average.*
What I’m most upset with is the complete copium from each side of the argument whenever this topic is brought up. The amount of people I’ve seen ignore the fact that Shadow let Sonic win so he could trick him with the fake emerald in their efforts to prove Sonic is superior during Generations baffles me. Equally so, the amount of people who completely ignore the multitude of implications that Sonic is definitely stronger than Shadow during Forces is baffling.
My absolute favorite is when people take the dialogue in ‘06 where Shadow says something along the lines of “We’d stand a chance against Solaris… if he were still alive” completely out of context and paint it as if Sonic is so unbelievably stronger than everyone else in the game combined that he alone would allow them to stop Solaris, despite the fact the reason Shadow said this is because he, Silver, and Sonic would all have to go Super *together* to fight Solaris across the timeline or else they’d be physically unable to kill it.
@@Sarge327 thank you! No matter what, until Sega decides otherwise, they are near equal, outside of whatever gimmick is present in said game. After unleashed and Rush, the debate was Shadow couldn’t boost and had been surpassed, and then a few games later, Shadow is boosting in his boss fight in Generations. I understand people looking for a definitive answer, but just straight up ignoring key details is not going help whatever agenda they are trying to push. But at the same time, Sega not including other playable characters in these games isn’t helping anything either, and Forces kind of labeled every character outside of Sonic as worthless, so I can see where they are coming from
Not to mention Shadow always has his limiter rigns on him. He'd hever took them off against Sonic, people seem to forget that.
Shadow doesnt have the feats or scaling to justify that the boost from the rimgs would be enough to win.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.because the "boost" from removing the inhibitor rings isn't explained.
In Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow is stated to be Sonic's literal equal in strength and power and speed. Meaning only plot armor matters. A literal "equal" has no advantage other than writer preference
Shadow has a Sonic Frontiers level in Shadow Generations and he went through it easily. No difficulty is implied that Shadow had any more difficulty than Sonic
Silver wins,
Testicular torscion.. enough said
Sonic speed blitz lil bro before he has time to think of testicular torsion.😂
I mean yeah testicular torsion is a one shot
Sonic’s balls aren’t exposed
@@apexatrovinator7510 Where the fuck are they then wise guy
@@Bendytube72In his gloves.
2:34 Putting on my nerd glasses for this.
Actually, Sonic didn't use the Master Emerald to beat Emerl. Tails used the Master Emerald to send Sonic to the Death Egg where Emerl was being held.
Also, Sonic beat Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds.
This. This right here scales Sonic so high it’s crazy.
Sonic vs Shadow is basically Goku vs Vegeta where Goku is clearly on top but because of semantic arguments and the fact Vegeta has never directly lost to Goku people think Vegeta is stronger. The same is true for this matchup
It's weird how Vegeta is weaker than Goku but when it comes to fighting each other writers feel the need to make Vegeta win. It's starting to feel like Vegeta fan service. "Oh so sorry that Vegeta can't beat/finish off a main villain, but we'll at least make it so that he beats Goku in a 1v1".
@@trueaura369lmao exactly!
Idk, man. The guy who was literally trained by God's since he was a kid, I would think he would be stronger than Vegeta , who prior to super had 0 formal training and was keeping up with just strength training and getting mind controlled. You should give Vegeta his props. Dude kept up with Goku with nothing but his pride and will.
Honestly, I think Vegeta has won every one of their encounters. Saiyan Saga (until he got jumped) . Buu Saga ( yes goku had ssj3 but couldn't use it, doesn't excuse him losing to vegeta) and super hero movie ( which is cannon and was a fight in base , so vegeta has a stronger base)
@ apparently though Vegetas Pride and Will isn’t enough to finish anyone off. 🤷🏾♂️ Goku was putting in work with a heart disease
@1d3r because the writers don't let vegeta get a dub. Cause it's Goku story. Vegeta has done more with less. Just admit it
Of course Sonic wins. He's the main character.
That’s not how that works
@@TheGamingRift11sometimes yeah and not you know what we mean
@@DEMOMLORD7actually no idk what people mean by that. Since in a lot of verses the main character can die… with sonic ironically being no different
@@TheGamingRift11 What do you mean? Sonic has the power of the plot by his side. That's why he wins. 😑😑
.... It's a joke by the way.
@@TheGamingRift11 we mean they Always sometimes mc so strong nobody can beat them but that is just few sometimes there are gods or older stronger characters but thats just the story thats why
5:17
Sonic needed a power-boost to beat Shadow in the Sonic Gen, but in Shadow Gen we can see that's not what happen at all, so it doesn't really count
@@LittleMac5 Yeah but like I said, that fight doesn't really count now because of Shadow Gen, that shows what actually happen.
And both of them didn't use any power-ups in the fight, Shadow just didn't want to fight at that moment since he has more important things to take care of.
@@NewVision_true
I wouldn't say he didn't want to fight since it was obvious he wanted to beat Sonic but chose not to use the doom spear, or chaos control bc he had multiple amps in the game. He wanted hold back and beat Sonic using his base powers which I think included chaos spear and teleportation since he fought Sonic using those said abilities before in base with no amps. He wanted to fight Sonic on an even playing field not one where he has an advantage with the power of a chaos emerald and a fake one, and his doom powers.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 Yup
@@LittleMac5 One tapped a off-guard Shadow that didn't even fight back, so still I don't take that as real win
Which I acknowledged
What’s crazy is that I made a short on this exact topic a few weeks ago, it’s awesome to see other peoples opinions on this!
The Characters don't really get "amped" when they have a chaos emerald though, they only really get amped if they actually use Chaos Powers during the fight, if they don't just having the emerald doesn't really make them stronger.
@@LittleMac5 they CAN
but just holding an emerald doesnt do that you have to tap into em
Chaos in adventure 1 proves that isn’t the case as he gets stronger the more emeralds are in his possession
@@TheGamingRift11that's the only instance which makes sense considering he comes from the master emerald
It was also stated that he was a guardian of the chaos emeralds
@@TheGamingRift11Chaos is also a massive exception due to its nature as a horrifically mutated Chao.
The only other characters who get passively stronger just by having a Chaos Emerald are the Deadly Six, otherwise no one really gets passive power ups from the Emeralds.
Sonic Prime is canon and takes place after Advance 3. Shadow beats Sonic there. Sonic was motivated because Shadow said he was gonna kill alt universe Tails. Shadow also does way better against Grim Metal Sonic and actually defeats it.
Sonic Adventure 2 hero ending isn’t canon because Eggman has all of the chaos emeralds in the TRUE ending and the eclipse canon isn’t destroyed. According to Sonic X, Shadow did lose to Sonic but it’s implied that he was only trying to delay Sonic until his real plan came to fruition. Saying he’d kill him was likely just cocky banter cause everyone on Earth was gonna die regardless.
In Sonic Heroes, Team Dark actually got to cryptic castle first and Team Sonic followed them. So that could imply that either Team Sonic lost or Team Dark retreated. But I agree with your analysis on Heroes. I agree on Battle as well.
In the OG Sonic Gens, the Encyclospeedia states that Sonic and Shadow couldn’t damage each other workout the energy Orbs. So in base they’re actually equal. This was retconned in Shadow Gens but even Rogue reacts with surprise “Sonic defeating you?! What happened?” She’s not use to seeing Shadow outright lose to Sonic because their fights most likely end in stalemates a lot!
Also having a Chaos Emerald isn’t an automatic amp. If it was Sonic had 2 chaos emeralds by the time he fought Shadow in Gens. Sonic had 2 from Eggman and Metal Sonic. Simply holding the chaos emeralds isn’t an amp unless you’re specifically drawing from their power.
Also IDW is canon and Shadow was able to knock Super Neo Metal out of his Super Form while he bullied Sonic and Knuckles. Also Shadow was able to solo an entire army of Shadow androids that were bullying Sonic and his friends. Shadow was amped by fake Chaos energy but Sonic has that ability as well
Sonic and Shadow are always stated to be equals or relative. I believe they can beat each other depending on the circumstances. That’s why games usually have Sonic (us) win but nearly every show (Canon or non canon) portrays Shadow as better
@@LittleMac5yep good video. Just giving my opinion
@@LittleMac5shut yo ass up bro, let this man give his opinion, goddamn. People just hating fr.
Prime and IDW has too many contradictions to the Canon
Shadow didn't beat him in Prime he was trying to take his gear
Hero ending is canon...the eclipse Cannon was damaged and Eggman didn't know Sonic was alive
He didn't lost in Sonic Heroes it was a tie neither won the fight.
Shadow caught Neo Metal off guard. He would have gotten the Same beating Sonic and Knuckles have gotten
Haha imagine talking about sonic prime. Shadow was also stronger in sonic boom too 😂
In SA2, Dark Ending, Hero Ending and True Ending are *ALL* canon, Hero and Dark happen concurrently, True happens last.
Doom wings isn't just him having wings. It's his new super form. He is invincible when using it just like in super form. theoretically if super was stacked on Doom wings it may be similar to cyber super sonic in power. (Key word theoretically.)
Sega said if shadow's popularity rises they will do more games with him. Maybe from sonic frontiers 2 we'll get multiple playable characters who knows...
I think that’s dumb since wasn’t Shadow always a fan favourite? With some people even preferring him to Sonic? Sonic team really needs to get with the times
It's Sega's problem overall. Majima is the most popular character in Yakuza series, but they still don't understand why, and only now doing 2 game for him where he is playable. Sega surely have a communication issues
@@TheGamingRift11i think someone said sega did the akira toriyama and the vegeta treament with shadow because they want sonic to have spotlight
@@TheGamingRift11sonic team ditched having the side cast be playable after 06 bombed. ig they just lost faith in everyone including shadow
Fun fact: Sonic technically really is the Ultimate lifeform! Well sorta.
Its implied that shadow was based on the mural of super sonic in the s3ak hidden palace (that would also explain why his quills are more similar to the super sonic quills than the normal quills).
So while shadow is the true ultimate lifeform he was based on sonic which sorta confirms sonic is also in a way the ultimate lifeform.
Also just in case i am writing this after watching half of the video so dont judge me if this is mentioned.
this is a theory still not confirmed its a huge popular fan theory that makes a lot of sense but Sega did not confirm this. the main dead give away was when they went super they look completely alike in sa2 and sa1 super sonic even gba versions.
@darkintimebreaker True this was mb and honestly i dont think saga will, ever confirm this but i think its a plausible theory.
@@DragonLord555 you good bro. its possible one day they can confirm this. i mean we still dont know why he was created to be a hedgehog one of these years we might get the answer but to be honest most of shadow life is already answered. not sure how they gonna just throw in that fact unless they make another shadow game giving us (oh here is a fun fact shadow meant to be a super hedgehog) lol
@@darkintimebreaker Cool
Even Shadow himself believes Sonic to be the real Ultimate Lifeform during a dialogue in the Finalhazard fight.
On the first point: That actually wasn't Shadow's full objective as Shadow was knowledgeable OF Gerald's initiation of the ARK's direct crash course to Earth. It was never stated he wasn't aware and didn't seem surprised, so he really could have been trying to stall Sonic out for it to happen. Even if Sonic DID win, this doesn't mean that Sonic wasn't trying in the fight. Sure Sonic was in a rush to blow up the Eclipse Cannon before it would go off, but surely that's more reason enough to try that much harder to stop it before it does anything. So, I do believe that it was a rather even fight, especially since it's been stated that they were rather equal at the time. A fight is dictated by more than just power, but also circumstance.
Also, the last part about Shadow saying Sonic is the Ultimate Lifeform may more just be an act of passing down the mantle as earlier in the Finalhazard fight, it was stated that Shadow was getting tired (this is his first usage of the Super form) and that may have known he might not make it. Either that or it could just be him admitting that in terms of heroism and mentality, that he is more deserving of the title. Especially since they are rather equal in power overall.
On the second point: Whether the other endings of Shadow 05 are non-canon or not, I don't think it matters all TOO much. I think the other endings are valid in terms of the possibility of these things happening. Such as Shadow being able to take on Sonic and Diablon at the same time. I believe that it shows the potential of power Shadow is very well capable of reaching.
On the third point: The "amping" doesn't really happen. Just because the emerald is within possession, it doesn't automatically mean that one is actually using the power to empower themselves. The only instance of this would be when they actively USE the emeralds' power with Chaos Control. Unless directly stated or shown, I wouldn't say that anyone is amped with the emeralds. Thus, really the fight was still balanced even without the amping. I don't think Shadow lags behind here in terms of power in regards to Sonic either. Shadow did have to clear an entire level, to get to Eggman to interrogate him, rush over to save Sonic (who was definitely struggling against Silver even after knowing his moves and SHOULD have been fast enough to expect his future attacks), and fold the white boy. Not exactly indicative of Shadow on the scaling chain.
On the fourth point: Lancelot, if he is anything like Shadow on their first meetup, most likely underestimated a "knave" like Sonic, but the rematch is fair. However, unsure about it's canonicity considering it IS post-game material. Not saying it isn't canon, but I'm just not sure. It's like replaying a boss on hard-mode, though who really knows. This one is fine.
On the fifth point: Even taking Shadow Generations into account, neither Sonic or Shadow could really do any significant damage to one another unless they used the Energy Core against one another. Either way, they were equally matched and had to amp themselves to do anything significant. However, still agree with the equalization here.
On the sixth point: This isn't implying that Shadow couldn't replicate the same feat. Just because Sonic was shown to kind of match and struggle with the clones, it doesn't mean that Shadow isn't able to do it as well. Nothing really implying power superiority in the intro sequence. He doesn't really tag Infinite either in it since Infinite was just outright finessing him. In Episode Shadow, the example you used isn't exactly a fair comparison since this is Shadow before the 6-months and this was from a sneak attack planned by Infinite and the Sonic you used was after the six months where he's obviously grown in power. Sonic also visibly was trying to protect himself against an attack from the Clone Shadow (which means he recognizes Shadow's power and sees him as a threat if he went against him), to which Shadow bodies immediately. I think there's not too much to conclude who is superior aside from the bad writing of Forces basically rendering any other character that WOULD be relative or equal to Sonic useless. Could say that Sonic might be stronger, but Forces writing is a headache so it just baffles me. Big unsure here.
Fight breakdown evaluation: Mephiles analysis is meh. It doesn't translate since Shadow needed Chaos Boost to do significant damage to Mephiles since Mephiles in his monster form was pretty much invulnerable until Chaos Boost is used. Also, it's obvious that these bosses aren't just past version, but versions of them that seem to be stronger as they have new capabilities they didn't originally have before (such as the limbs mutation that Biolizard has).
For the Doom powers, Doom Surf is actually more useful than Sonic's water running thing in concept. There's a difference between just running across water and using something like a boat or a more aquatically-tuned vehicle to traverse. It is more practical and allows more advanced maneuvers in water. Logically, it makes sense. It isn't an anti-feat for Shadow either as in the Shadow Rival Battle in Gens, Shadow moves at the same speed as Sonic so it isn't like Shadow is slower or can't do what Sonic does.
For Doom Wing, that isn't really an argument. Just because Sonic has fought flying enemies before, it doesn't give him any inherent advantage. Shadow has ALSO fought airborne enemies before. It's the fact that Doom Wing is specifically rather powerful it seems and it ALSO gives Shadow invulnerability in-game, so it is a direct boost in durability and seemingly power due to the final fight.
I will say one thing that in Frontiers, there IS idle dialogue that mentions that Sonic "wouldn't mind Shadow's help". This could imply that Sonic sees Shadow as someone that could actually really help right now. Whether it implies power equality, unsure. Though if even Sonic is giving props to Shadow, I think that may make them comparable.
Conclusion: This analysis has some issues in my opinion, but it isn't a horrible analysis. It wasn't a toxic exchange where disrespect was thrown towards a character's way nor was it toxic and I do appreciate that from a powerscaling video. Especially one that involves both Sonic and Shadow (as those debates can get rather heated). I like to keep civility, really. However I will say one thing and that the Sonic Verse has never truly had power creep. The world's powerscaling has never been a focus in-verse and most of the time, the characters are comparable to one another and capable of putting up a good fight against one another or threats similar to themselves. It may have some shonen instances, but the Sonic Verse somewhat scales itself and/or leaves the scaling to the side for the sake of gameplay and/or story.
Which brings me to my next point, I think taking the context of certain story beats, the intentions and knowledge of characters, and the events that transpire as a result of them into account does help with powescaling in a roundabout way or provides more context to certain feats as the "superior fighter" often doesn't just come down to a winner or loser, but the lead-up.
Sorry if this is long, I just thought I should passionately give my review/criticism on this matter as I am rather knowledgeable on many facets of Sonic and Shadow stuff.
Yeah I do agree with some parts but also if Shadow knew about the Eclipse cannons true function, why would he even try stop Sonic from blowing it up?
He’d be aware sonic is wasting his time as blowing up the weapon doesn’t prevent the threat that Gerald created
It was confirmed to be a tie (SA2).
@@TheGamingRift11That is up to interpretation as you can clearly see Shadow is chilling on the ARK after the fight. He isn’t trying to stop Sonic or anything.
@@TheGamingRift11 Again, fighting Sonic means stalling him. Which means less chance of them figuring out anything about Gerald's true intentions of "even if x happens, Gerald had this as a true plan". He would be FULLY aware that Sonic is wasting time and that's the point. Gerald had a real Doomsday Plan ready in case. Shadow DID have his memories specifically altered by Gerald himself and Shadow actually outsmarted Eggman with the plan Gerald had that Shadow followed through on.
SEGA never said it was a tie. Shadow outright said he wanted to end sonic. Sonic is still aIive so if shadow win, why is sonic still here? Make it make sense.
L video since we’re comparing two different time periods against each other towards the end instead of just natural stats. If Shadow was in frontiers, then they would just be equal again. If Shadow got his own game past frontiers, he would be “stronger” even though we know the entire cast is getting stronger in the background. These two will always be equal with outside factors determining who wins. Sonic will always have the edge since the series is named after him. Shadow will always be just as strong because he’s the rival and second most popular character. The end
@@daj7237 I compared the strong versions of Sonic and Shadow shown in the games without superforms
It’s not the fault of the video that Shadows last canonical appearance was in Forces and Sonics was in Frontiers 🤷♂️
@ but it’s the foolishness of the title of the video itself…”not even close” when they are literally created to always be close and are shown to be close anytime they interact is wild man. You even mention it at the end of the video…
@@TheGamingRift11 Shadow Gens is canon
His last appearance was NOT in forces 💀
Also Frontiers Sonic is a victim without the emeralds
That's literally the reason why you're spending 80% of the game collecting them to begin with
@@TheGamingRift11its still misleading though? Why even compare 2 people from 2 different times?
Who is stronger end of series sasuke or naruto when he first fought haku? Makes no sense
If you cant acuratly scale them then dont, dont pretend to have cracked the code if its all misleading at best and flat out wrong at worst.
A more usefull video would have been to compare the unique powers they have.
@@chrisuki4831yeah no base Sonic slams shadow
Sega & Sonic Team:
"Sonic & Shadow are still equals in every regard, and that won't change."
Fans: "Sonic vs Shadow isn't even close! Shadow stands no chance!"
I find it hilarious how fans keep asking who wins for years & Sega/Sonic Team are like: "they're equals in every way so who knows?"
@@LittleMac5 i mean nobody knows who wins in adventure 2 as there is no clear cut stated winner from Sega just rando fan speculation, generations its shown Shadow was holding back and hesitated which gave Sonic his opening to beat him so that barely counts, meanwhile Shadow stomps Sonic with the gun commander backing him up in his own game, and Silver beats Sonic but Shadow claps Silver in 06, and no the win against Lancelot doesn't count as that is not Shadow. soooooooo do you even play the games i wonder?
Death of the author fallacy
Okay so then we look at the next best thing, whos won. And shadow has canonically never besten sonic. So there. Simple.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.he had WAY more games than shadow and is the main character so that's not really a valid argument for a fight between two characters described as equals
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.then Vegeta is always stronger than Goku, cause by your logic, he canonically never beat him in a one on one…lol there’s factors to these things
You know I'm curious
this matchup has been so contentious for so long but after SxSG...I honestly want to know how you feel about Infinite vs Mephiles with all biases aside as quite frankly Mephiles suffers from severe power creep thanks to this game
Thanks for the idea!! Maybe I’ll dedicate a video to it!!
Doom Wings make you invincible
Shadow with doom powers is pretty much close to Super level, I would say at least Dark Sonic level which is a false Super Sonic transformation
@@AlmoatasemAlmobarek its actually a bit weaker considering you used real chaos emeralds. i can explain but i wont unless you ask me
I dunno you didn't mention that the Doom Wings gives Shadow invulnerability like the Super Forms do. Also I thought Eggman was in possession of the final chaos emerald in SA2 after fighting Tails, so doesn't that mean Shadow fought Sonic with zero emeralds in their last fight in SA2 or am I forgetting something? Also Sonic mission was to destroy the Eclipse cannon by shoving the fake emerald in the Eclipse cannon, thus destroying it yet in Shadow 05 the eclipse cannon is still functional so doesn't that mean Sonic failed thus making it a tie?
sonic surviving the titans is impressive. in the flash backs we see that these weren't made with metal, they were generated completely by the power of the chaos emeralds.
Sonic being tired in the in the first interaction is an opinion.
Sonic didn’t win the 3rd fight. It was confirmed that it was a draw.
Even if Shadow the hedgehog endings weren’t canon. It is still theoretically what would happen had they fought at the time. Shadow was stronger than Sonic here.
You can see sonic panting after beating the gun robot and after evading gun for presumably the whole afternoon
Shadow beat sonic in shadow with 6 chaos emeralds in his possession…
@@yvng_hero305so shadow is that weak that he needs six emeralds to beat one guy?
@@Dripichigo-m7j i mean probably less but he still had 6😭
@@Dripichigo-m7jyes and that guy was still holding back 😭
Shadow Generations takes place in 2011 when forces wasn't out yet
I’m aware…. What’s your point?
@ well I have seen people compare the strength to Frontiers Super Sonic and complain about Infinite not being in when he arrived in 2017
@@just_Mephiles
Well there are stages in Shadow Generations from the future like Forces
@ yeah which is odd I thought only the stuff from the past could be pulled into white space
*Sonic vs Shadow isn't a stomp because writers wont make it a stomp.* Even after Frontiers, Sonic vs Shadow is always going to be depicted as a tough matchup
The Ultimate Lifeform vs The Undefeatable One (The Undefeatable One is called that way for a reason)
I love that comparison
nobody calls sonic that.
No one calls sonic that
@southerncoastproductions7587 I do in case it wasn't obvious, duh
@@Hugo-yz1vb U barely qualify as a person. Don't give yourself that credit rat
Yeah, no, shadow wins. *Bruh everyone be talking about shadow needing to use doom surf to go on water and yet sonic couldn't even run on water in frontiers* 💀
Is that a hint of biased opinion I smell? All jokes aside sonic just has way more feats then shadow. Shadow can use all the chaos emeralds he wants but it's no use.
@@whezzerbloxxer7472 Two words, ring inhibators. Other than that sonic would win.
@ nah he'd win
@@lordx8844 Definitely not if we talking frontiers sonic. Any other version of sonic would lose to shadow extreme diff he would have to take off his ring inhibators
@@TanJurine5873 we didn't even see shadow in Frontiers to draw any conclusions on whether or not he had gotten stronger as well. It was stated several times they were equal in every way so that could mean, just like sonic he gets stronger as time passes on.
I love how Sega gave Sonic his cyber powers then they gave Shadow his black doom powers.
Sonic vs Shadow is way too hard than it needs to be. My mindset is either they equally win which is most likely or Sonic wins purely because he has more experience and is faster. Sega keeps saying they’re equal but it just keeps getting debunked over and over and over again.
I think Sonic slams low diff
@ see that’s what I always think but I keep hearing people say things about Shadow that gets me thinking even though I KNOW Sonic can counter em
@@NeonAi08 Sonic is shadow’s biggest weakness 😭
@@john_negs7720 💀
@@NeonAi08 I honestly see no wincon for shadow I’m not even trying to be biased.
The idea of characters "getting stronger" isn't a good argument. Classic Sonic beat Chaos 0 in one hit, scaling him above Adventure Sonic. These things don't make sense.
Characters are only scaled up to the game they are in. Its why Classic Sonic can perform feats above his Sonic Adventure counterpart if thats game the game environment.
Put Shadow in Sonic Frontiers and he will sweep it as easily as in Shadow Generations. Because Shadow in Chaos Island scaled up to that Cyber location simply by being in the game
Because it’s basically stated it’s different classic sonic from the one from previous games since that classic sonic was from generations
So basically even tho it’s applied that classic sonic and modern sonic are the same generations and forces basically made changed classic sonic timeline so meaning that version of classic sonic is lot different from the one that became modern sonic
The chaos island wouldn’t really scale shadow in any way as that’s like saying time eater would solo Solaris by this logic and cyber locations wouldn’t scale shadow either to be honest
The real pain in the ass thing about this debate is that not only does Shadow have multiple Chaos powers but also that he is limited by his Inhibitor Rings to keep him from tiring himself out. The fact that he’s being held back is an argument people would bring up but it’s hard to agree with considering there’s clearly more focus on Sonic in the games which just adds more fuel to the fire in this debate as while we know Shadow is powerful, it’s hard to reach a definitive answer when we’ve see Sonic pull crazy stuff like outrunning a growing black hole for around 30 seconds while the games haven’t shown Shadow pulling off anything on that level.
It’s basically a debate on what you know of one character vs speculations on another. I honestly don’t see us ever getting a definitive answer, which is just how Sega roles with the Sonic series. I mean, we’ll all be dead before they even give us an actual origin to what the heck the Chaos Emeralds are, so I honestly find the true answer to this debate as mute. Doesn’t mean it isn’t fun to come back to ever now and again.
I’m not gonna watch this video so don’t feel the need to read this comment but there’s really no point to arguing about this, they are equals, and are quite clearly equals, sometimes sonic will win sometimes shadow will win. Sonic says in shadow generations he won “this one” which means he wins and loses all the time otherwise he would say I won again. And anyone who thinks shadow is holding back. In sa2 it was a fight to the death and sonic won, why would shadow be holding back then?
Here’s one weird thing about comparing Doom Morph to Sonic already being able to run on water. The fight is between Frontiers Sonic and Generations Shadow. Frontiers Sonic isn’t never ran on water. If he was, we would’ve been able to do so and it likely would’ve been really helpful tbh. But he sinks.
It’s also pretty clear that the cyber abilities are stronger because they literally are better oriented towards combat, while Shadow’s powers give him a better edge on traversal. He literally becomes better capable of traversing the land, sea and sky with Morph, Surf and Wings and accesses areas otherwise impossible with Spear and Blast. Ironically, Shadow probably would’ve prospered a lot more than Sonic in exploring the open zones of the Starfall Islands (if he at least had the cyloop of course to access puzzles). While Sonic’s cyber powers, besides the cyloop never gave him access to more areas, it was only his standard hedgehog powers he relied on for traversal.
Also I wanna point out that the thing you said about Silver getting amped by the blue chaos emerald during his second encounter with Sonic. He’s not. Neither the gameplay nor the story support that. Until they cast chaos control or collect them all to achieve their super form, all they’re holding are glowing rocks.
Also Shadow not being able to break free in Forces was not due to power but Shadow's mental hang ups. Also Sonic escaping Null space was because he and the avatar worked together. It wasn't Sonic by himself. It's hard to give Sonic any solo wins because after Sonic is freed he and the avatar work togetherness most of the game. Also as it's been established team work and friendship in the Sonic verse amps your power dramatically.
It was never stated sonic couldn't do it on his own and sonic has beated the clones null space is no problem
@@Dripichigo-m7j Dr Eggman- What! It’s impossible to escape from the phantom ruby’s null space!
Sonic- *Maybe by myself but I had a little help from my friend* . Something you wouldn’t understand since you don’t have any friends.
Sonic outright states that he wouldn’t have been able to escape null space by himself. If you still don’t believe me watch the cutscene right after Sonic escapes from Null Space
Shadow often questions his own existence, but he probably questions Sonic's existence as well. Shadow was created in a laboratory to be the ultimate life form, he was made from an evil alien's DNA and is basically a living chaos emerald, and then you have Sonic who can do almost everything Shadow can do but a little better and he was born naturally
Nice! Although I’d argue the Doom Powers give him a huge amp in power. They practically make him a Super Form, him being invincible, giving off yellow aura, the super electricity, and him even being able to fight Neo Devil Doom who was from the future (Gerald states this apparently), being similar to the Super form. And Sonic implies in Frontiers that Shadow is still relative to him, and as of TailsTube it’s implied they can still bout on equal terms. So I’d say Doom Shadow >>>> Frontiers Sonic
😂 that dosen't mean he is super and the Hedgehog has fought beings that are more dangerous then doom shadow dude like what? And I'm not sure if that's canon also really yellow aura and electricity you do know that wouldn't mean super right and Neo Doom could of been talking about super shadow not just all super form😅
@ That’s a very coherent sentence you got there man
In the original Generations, it wasn't supposed to the current Shadow that Sonic was fighting, it was SA2 Shadow.
Just Got hete and i will say this thia is accurate keep up the good work brotha
OK, the video is good, but where this argument completely falls apart is the fact that shadow gets teleported to one of sonic frontiers Islands where he straight up one shot the ancient robots on the island showing that even though they’re separated by a large amount of time, they are still some close in power
Sonic stomps. Don't let the Shadow glazing from other media fool you, the main game Modern Sonic is a beast. Shadow was created to be the ultimate life form, he was literally built to be the best, and he loses to Sonic. Sonic is the true all natural ultimate life form.
It's been stated how many times by Sega they were equal
@@MeepinMeh
And it gets contradicted, your point?
@@bluephoenix_z3364 they're stated as equals ofc in the games there's going to be moments where sonic beats shadow because he's the main character. If we go outside of gameplay instances we are shown they are equally matched like in Sonic Prime which is canon
@@MeepinMehcook
@@MeepinMehprime contradicts itself with its shit portrayal of sonic. Just cuz sega says its canon, doesnt mean it should be taken seriously considering they play with the canon like its a fucking joke “everything is canon” like come on now.
Interested to know, why you didn't mention the inihibitor rings?
@@LittleMac5 I mean he didn't blow up, when he did it in 06😂
Also nice username, Punch-Out fun af
Because inhibitor rings dont have enough evidence to suggest it would cziose the gap. If sonic no difs shadow, what is the propf inhibitor rings would cIose that gap? Sonic will just beat no inhibitor rings shadow too.
The inhibitor rings would be a death sentence for shadow since whilst yes it gives him a massive boost it also robs him of his immortality since removing the rings for too long is one of the few things that will kill him
Also he doesn’t have that great feats with the rings removed anyways
@@LittleMac5 Gerald stated that in regards to how Shadow was at that point. With all the doom powers he had on top of the power he already had? Yeah, of course he'd blow up.
Not to say a similar thing wouldn't eventually happen normally, but it would probably be almost immediate with Doom Shadow.
Yeah, Shadow is gonna need way more adventures and growth in his power if he ever dreams of beating Sonic, and even then Sonic is likely to get far stronger over time so at that point, Shadow, like Metal Sonic, will ultimately be nothing to Sonic power wise.
In my vision and opinion, Shadow wins this fight, he is the Ultimate Lifeform after all.
Shadow has the chaos powers and is physically stronger than Sonic, the only thing Shadow doesn't have is the super speed that Sonic has.
Sonic is stronger with his speed, Shadow is just stronger and can use his chaos powers such as chaos control that requires a chaos emerald, chaos snap ( short teleportation ) for agility and combat, and other chaos powers.
Well, just by watching Shadow fight against the black arms in Sonic X Shadow Generations, Shadow has combat experience, even Maria asks Shadow when did he learn to fight the way he did. Although Sonic has experience in combat, so does Shadow.
I know that in SA2 Shadow and Sonic get exhausted fighting each other and Shadow probbably have never found a chalenge before, but if Shadow had the intention to kill Sonic, he would kill him, but he didn't wanted to do that because of the way he is, regardless his veangeful and hatred feeling for Maria's death, and his mind being manipulated by Gerald, Shadow has a pure heart, he saved Rouge when he could take those chaos emeralds and leave without her. Shadow is soft, kind.
To be honest, Shadow only lost to Sonic in Sonic X Shadow Generations because he let him win, It would be too unfair for Shadow to use those doom chaos powers, although it would hurt Sonic a lot more. Also, Shadow tricking Sonic with the fake emerald was a smart move to acomplish his plans without interruptions.
I'd say Shadow got a lot stronger over the time just like Sonic. In my vision, Shadow is superior than Sonic, in terms of strenght and power, but not faster than Sonic. Well, this is my opinion and I know I will never change this.
9:18 ngl i find the doom spears pretty weak in gameplay terms its just a better version of chaos spears which the better part is you being able to use 5 they are similar and just stuns the opponent hell it just stuns normal robots for crying out loud
9:05 You forgot that Sonic needs to wait for the bosses to come down
And only shadow stays on the ceiling and throws Doom spear
And Doom shadow is invincible to normal attacks
For me Sonic only wins because he has the cyber super sonic form
In the end, if both were to tap into their full potentials…. Sonic comes out on top pretty much every time.
To be fair, the Doom Wings are very much the "equivalent" of an unique Super form for Shadow.
By the way, I think for the 2000s Sonic games you should check the Japanese scripts instead of the English ones, considering the JP scripts were written first.
Sonic has been able to run on water in base form since Sonic 3.
If that’s the case he mysteriously forgot that ability for many years 😂
They're equally matched. Either of them can win depending on the circumstances and what the plot requires.
Agreed. the next game could see shadow overtake Sonic
The comics makes this even harder. They have a squabble early on and Shadow gets the edge but neither were trying their hardest.
They also rarely fight the same opponents. Closest we get is Metal Sonic. Shadow kinda loses because Metal is retreating with Eggman.
I really liked the abilities sonic had in frontiers especially the energy attacks. I hope they expand on them in the next game. And allow them to be used in boost gameplay if it’s there.
I agree - kinda like how as shadow you could use doom spears whilst at high speeds
Firing energy projectiles whilst running and completing parkour etc
the fact that THE defining game for one of the two characters in the TITLE of the video only gets less than 20 seconds of screen time shows me just how biased this video was before you even started working on it
Which game? 🤔 - also sonic has wayyyy more games than Shadow so that was an inevitable outcome anyways?
XD
If you're reffering to Shadow '05, that's an extremely out-dated game, the feats have all been surpassed and it is now irrelevant in powerscaling
i don't know if it's entirely accurate to only use power scaling to settle in-series debates. canon is also important and as far as the series itself is concerned, sonic and shadow are always portrayed as equal, even if sonic has more feats (naturally, he's the main character with the most screentime)
@@LittleMac5 Shadow loses because he either holds back or is too injured to go all out.
And are you really trying to argue with canon? lmao
Not only that but y’all forget that those rings on Shadow’s wists hold back his true power,so every time he fights Sonic he’s not even using half of his full power,and he can use Chaos control without the emeralds as shown in the comics which are canon to the games.Shadow also has doom powers,so even if their base physical stats are equal,shadow can use his full power+doom powers+chaos control he stomps Sonic bad😂😂😂
I…. Did use canon events as well as scaling?
@@LittleMac5main character syndrome:
This changed the moment shadow was given his own game btw where he fights sonic and something else(idr the name)and won
Ehhh, I'm sure Shadow will catch up a couple games from now assuming SEGA decides his popularity is ascendant enough for him to get deuteragonist status back.
I want to see a fight between BASE frontiers sonic and BASE Archie sonic no new powers no nothing just their regular base sonic kit with no other transformations and powers
Omega stated that Sonic is Shadow's equal in speed and strength on two occasions. The winner depends on the plot and whoever is playable.
Moreover, everyone gets stronger over time if the gameplay demands it. People thought that Sonic far surpassed everyone because he beat Perfect Chaos without the chaos emeralds. ..... 😊And then Shadow does the same to Metal Overlord, whom the player can beat without using chaos control or doom powers other than doom surf.
Tbh shadow at his full power would always allow him to contend with sonic except in 1 scenario. Only if he removes his inhibitor rings, which in every fight he has with sonic, he refuses to do. In 06, shadow was able to beat mephiles while he was amped by 2 chaos emeralds by removing his inhibitor rings so his inhibitor rings can give him soo much of a boost in power that it surpasses the power of 2 chaos emeralds. Sonic can't get a boost in power like that. Only in frontiers could sonic actually rival that kind of power only in his super form.
Just imagine the power of 2/7ths of a super form. Do a little bit power scaling and you'll see how much it is. Basically it's the like kaioken but with the flaws of SSJ3.
Although shadow will lose against SS2 sonic/cyber sonic regardless since super sonic couldn't even damage the end in his super form and had to go all out to defeat the end. Shadow will not be able to replicate that kind of power.
Shadow may only win if he takes off his inhibitor rings
I'm not gonna bother trying to debate this as its gone on for so long that its just annoying now but I will say that the two are equally matched. Sonic is faster but Shadow is fast enough to not get blitzed, Shadow is stronger but sonic is strong enough to match him.
Here's what I'm going to say about the Sonic versus Shadow debate In most cases I feel that Sonic and Shadow are pretty relative in well everything It's just Sonic is the main character so we see him do more but there's nothing to say that if you were to just take Sonic's games and make Shadow the protagonist instead That shadow couldn't do the same things so it's honestly a toss up in my opinion
Sonic. Reason: perfect Chaos. In Sonic adventure, in order to defeat perfect chaos, Sonic needed to go super, and even then, this was just to stop Chaos, an immortal being/god. Fast foward Sonic generations, he had to fight perfect Chaos again, but this time, no super form. And he defeat him. Up to that point, Shadow's biggest feat by himself was in shadow the hedgehog, going super against the Black Doom. We saddly have too little of shadow doing things by himself.
Im considering all media, even animation.
But usually what comes down with those 2 is story vs gameplay:
Purely on story, shadow is portraiyed stronger, during gameplay, sonic being the playable characters win the fight
On animation mainly, shadow is almost always portraiyed strongest
And not forgetting that when they are on pair, most of time Sonic is on pair with shadow having inhibitors rings
sonic can use chaos control and chaos spear and chaos blast except he can summon the explosion anywhere also he has this thing where he can do some kind of telekenises thing where he insta destroys a full on army
In Sonic X Shadow Generations, after Chaos Island Omega States that Sonic is Shadow's Equal in Speed and Strength, but that Shadows abilities are artificial while Sonic's abilities are natural and latent. That being said I will say that Sonic would win more times than none because Sonic's natural talent will give him more adaptability to different battles and situations. Shadow could win 4/10 since he also can adapt quickly and has a lot of experience but Sonic has more experience and he would take the win
Hey, silver fan here. How fast do you think silver is. Like a percentage of sonic's speed. Just curious cuz i think silver has a speed near sonic's or atleast that's, what i get from the gens boss fight since sonic actually needs to try when he tries to catch up to silver in order to attack.
Also, silver wins
One thing I'd like to note with Shadow is that in Shadow generations it's said that Doom wing Shadow was so strong that if he removed his wrist rings it would be dangerous and he could explode. It's a bummer because Shadow with Doom wings, Super form, and no wrists rings combined could have been really powerful for Shadow.
I mean,considering the Súper form's Invulnerability,Maybe you could argue In Súper Shadow Could Survive Using his Doom Powers and taking his inhibitors off
@@gabrielmachado1247thats only a hypothetical tho since shadow still dies in sonic adventure 2
@@hackerninjaexe5791 that Happened because It was his first Time Going super,and he got tired,its implied in Shadow the Hedgehog that When he clashed Down on earth he hit the Planet as Súper Shadow,and that is what allowed him to survive,and then a Eggman robot Found him,and Got him into Eggman's bases,then he got Healed,then heroes happened
@ he still technically got tired and damaged during that tho and that the same would have happened to sonic so shadow going super “the first time” wouldn’t matter
So basically him going super having doom powers while having his rings removed would just be too much for him to handle regardless
technically sonic has canonically been able to run on water since sonic 3
If the fight is Sonic frontiers Sonic and Shadow with the doom powers, then honestly Shadow probably wins, it seems a lot of people don’t know or forget that the doom wings grant invincibility when shadow uses them, he doesn’t take damage when ever the doom wings are active
Power creep isn’t a thing in Sonic mate, like each antagonist isn’t automatically stronger the previous
Honestly that depends on what writer you ask.
Some writers like the one who wrote the Scrapnik Island mini arc for the IDW Comics state that characters like Mecha Sonic from the Classic Era are still just as fast as modern day Sonic, even in his current state of disrepair and mismatched parts.
Meanwhile the writers for Generations and the Sonic Encyclospeedia state that Sonic is constantly getting stronger and faster with every game, to the point where Sonic can beat villains that previously required a super form to beat like Perfect Chaos.
Listen. Shadow wins in that final fight in SA2 because the dark side ending is Canon. Because it leads into last story, and shadow wins in the dark side ending.
Doesn't really matter Honestly. Despite everything, Sega still deems these two are still on par. Not having feats is only a matter of who Sega needs to lead. If Shadow ever gets a main lead, he'll beat big bads that may scale above Sonic. But it doesn't mean Sonic couldn't beat that said boss.
I don't think either won on sa2 final battle between sonic or shadow. I believe while Sonic and Shadow were 'Racing to the core to slam dunk it in there', Robotnik got a hold of the final emerald and rushed to the console and planted it in his machine, while Sonic escaped from Shadow (With falling platforms and stuff, probably got seperated) and he tossed his fake emerald into the core, thinking he jammed the cannon and successfully stopped the plan of firing another laser.
Then if we think that sonic destroyed the eclipse canon then how are we going to explain the events of shadow the hedgehog 2005. Shadow needed the fully functional eclipse canon to destroy the black arms.
So ya they tied in the final battle.....
Shadow is DEFINITELY physically stronger than Sonic that’s for sure. They may be equal everywhere else but this isn’t debatable. Shadow picks up cars and other objects that weigh TONS with ease and punches Bullet Bill sized objects with his bare hands. Sonic isn’t shown to have strength feats like shadow and knuckles. Outside of metal piercing homing attacks.
Thegamingrift!
most things in this video seems accurate but im sorry, sonic ''holding his own'' against the forces villains is hilarious. the guy got rekt. owned. molly whopped. bullied even. 6 months later after his supposed uncle iroh training arc in prison every enemy he did fight from that og group required a whole boss fight while shadow needed one kick to get rid of his dupe. one that scaled directly to himself when it was created. it's also odd to just accept that sonic has more experience when shadow gens just proved the guy does his own shit in the background too. that all does become moot by frontiers scaling yes but before that it seemed a bit too heavy on the shadow downplay
@@LittleMac5 their first fight infinite treated sonic like a ragdoll, the second fight he beat him in a boss fight only for infinite to go ultra shaggy with the ''that wasn't even 0.001% of my power'' and no diff him in the cutscene afterwards, and finally they'd have all been turned to dust if the rookie didn't happen to have a phantom ruby prototype on him and infinite in his infinite wisdom didn't decide to throw a second sun. also when was shadow afraid of infinite? this isn't a denial i haven't played forces in ages so i don't recall that
@@raygrossman4504
Shadow stated to Sonic he doesn't believe they'll win this war bc of infinite. It was in dialogue from the game.
@@bluephoenix_z3364 is that the cutscene where shadow says "as it stands there's no way we can win this?" And sonic going "of course we can! We just haven't figured that part out yet?" If it is, that is not fear, that is Shadow being practical and Sonic being optimistic, a rare true to their character interaction for Forces.
Sonic prior to the time skip did briefly hold his own in a 1v5 - with one of those fighters being infinite himself
Obviously sonic stood no chance of being victorious but it’s still impressive to mention regardless
@@LittleMac5 i ain't sayin' sonic isn't impressive or trying to downplay the dude, because in that six months he obviously did get stronger which infinite obviously did notice. that increase in strength still amounted to nothing in that fight tho. as for shadow he was working with Rouge during that game to find the source of Infinite's power, that's how they learned about it in the first place. sonic was fighting and losing but still getting stronger while shadow was being tactical which both contributed to the victory at the end of the game
Sonic would win most fights but not all of them because sometimes all it takes is one mistake to turn the fight into the opponent's favour. So Shadow would win a few fights. Eventually Shadow would win more fights than Sonic but it would be due to Sonic reaching old age status since he doesn't have immortality like Shadow.
@@LittleMac5 Deadpool has beaten Spider-Man tho lmao
And Sonic can't keep up with Shadow forever. Shadow will keep growing forever while Sonic will get older & slow down.
@@1999bazz
According to who? Could I get some statements? Sources? Or are you creating unprovable claims?
The same can be said for Shadow - he also can make mistakes with Sonic being significantly above shadow in base anyways
I should have said that making mistakes applies to both hedgehogs.
least biased sonic glazer (vid is nothing but biased takes btw)
Guys I want to save you guys time watching this and say Shadow is stronger than Sonic.
Can you do a video for sonic vs blaze?
I hear people say she could beat sonic and shadow in a 1v1 fight (pre frontier)
But wait, isn't shadow speed and power being suppressed because of his inhibitor rings?
Power yes! Speed hell no. Shadow's power is suppressed bc he will die if they stay off for a long time.
many bad points in this video, sega is never gonna confirm, they never fought a fair one on one. outside of prime.
You forgot Prime.
Doesn’t prime take place before frontiers? 🤔 I did specifically want to focus on games
@TheGamingRift11 Ah fair. It's just that Prime is the only medium where Shadow beats Sonic.
Its close dude. They have been stated multiple times to be equal even in frontiers as sonic has stated shadow would be a good help
It used to be close..... Now it's a slaughter
Honestly they should be on the same level, make Sonic slighty faster, but Shadow slighty physically stronger
It'd make their dynamic interesting & cool
@@LittleMac5 Boy, you glazing Sonic too much💀
@@LittleMac5 I mean he is the Best written character In the franchise, so he deserves praise
@@LittleMac5 I mean, we haven't seen Shadow after Forces in the canon, but right now based on the last time we've seen Shadow.
Then yea Frontiers Sonic beats Forces Shadow
They're literally stated to be equals in every way to this day lmao
Sonic ,knuckles ,shadow and blaze are equal in terms power sonic just got the advantage of being the face of franchise
Sonic and shadow maybe if they share the same game, but blaze and knuckles definitely aren’t on that tier.
@ nah do you read the comics or seen sonic x the original Japanese dub where both in both case knuckles and shadow tied or shadow took his inhibitor rings just get the upper hand
Shadow and sonic are equal, knuckles beats em all, he's too strong that sega has to nerf him
1:25 that statement is false and also going off their original story. Shadow was supposed to die in that game. He was never planned to come back so I'm not looking at this at modern. I'm looking at this at the time of writing like they were not expecting Shadow to be a recurring character. And illiterant view when Shadow says this Shadow was low on energy, but Sonic he will still have power. He still was in a super form so that's why he said that
Shadow 100% solo’s sonic and it’s not even close now
So much cap from you
@ it’s a fact, sonic to this day will never prove that he solo’s metal overlord in base form
@@SAMURAIPACK456 sonic solo perfect chaos in base
@ that’s a city level threat, it took sonic’s whole squad, 7 emeralds and two of his friends in super orbs to beat overlord
@SAMURAIPACK456 it mostly took super sonic and just weird powered up versions of knuckles and Tails? Perfect chaos is powerful then void who created the precioustone that contains universes/dreams which were said to be infinite
Sonic and Shadow are equals, a fight with the two of them could go either way
SEGA has a mandate that Sonic must come out on top by the end of the game and must be the most powerful character. If you don't believe this, tell me the canonical ending to every mainline Sonic game since 1991.
I say it either or cause we don't know what shadow is doing or hoe strong he gotten
Sonic was also fatigued in the final shadow fight in adventure 2 and he still beat a bloodlusted shadow while he was holding back btw team Sonic is implied to have low diffed team dark so that’s another win Sonic was stated in the 06 prima guide to be holding back against silver in their fight so suppressed Sonic>>>silver~shadow Sonic has always been stronger than shadow and always will be stronger than him
The green emerald didn't amp shadow you need all the emeralds in order to get an amp that being super sonic or shadow the emeralds don't grant you power by itself ik we have superstars but that was confirmed to be from the island in that game
Chaos in Adventure 1 is confirmed to get more powerful with each emerald in its possession - with emeralds also granting unique abilities which grant an edge in combat
@@TheGamingRift11it doesn't do that for sonic and shadow because they have no transformation when having 1 or 2 emeralds my point is back upped further with sonic generations sonic had 6 emeralds and wasn't amped in power and even before sonic. Had emeralds he's still confirmed to be stronger than his past selfs like Dreamcast era sonic unleashed sonic and colors sonic and everything in between. Chaos was the exception but exceptions don't make the standards
I have another example sonic in frontiers when you get a emerald isn't confirmed to be stronger nor does he feel stronger during combat if the emeralds for sonic and Shadow's case gave them an amp which it doesn't but let's say for the sake of the argument it did nothing changed and it still isn't confirmed they still need all 7 to bring out the full potential of said emeralds .
@@LittleMac5 actually if you pay attention and stop meat riding for a second I have 2 comments that are in deeper details such as if they we're amped it would have been stated and the gameplay would feel different you don't believe me boot up sonic frontiers play as base sonic with a emerald obtained then play as super sonic 1 and then play super sonic 2 and you'll see what I'm talking about and if you're too lazy I'll charge my switch and do it for you
@@LittleMac5 are you dumb nobody was talking about the story I'm talking about gameplay buddy I said play as base sonic with emeralds obtained then play as normal super sonic (see the power difference) then play as super sonic 2 who in lore and gameplay is stronger than super sonic v1 you clearly can't pay attention you comment back to me talking about needing super sonic to beat the titans which is good that you know but nobody is talking about that.🤦♂️
Didn't understood arguments from the moment with forces. The problem is that Sega's logic is very idiotic. When we are talking about Forces we have to understand that for the most of the time Shadow is actually doing nothing 😂😂 and even then he managed to oneshot he's copy by using Chaos control without chaos emerald and this time bending also managed to stun even Sonic, then Sonic had to waste the time to stop even fake Zavok or destroy fake Metal Sonic with help of doubleboost(thanks to Avatar). So where is this power showned? In battle with Infinite or final boss? Well I don't see any problem for Shadow in battle with Infinite because Shadow has the same statistics as Sonic(in video this was said already), especially then in final battle with Infinite Sonic also needed help from Avatar and Final boss also needed help from Avatar and classic Sonic, so in this case the hole argument that Sonic in Forces is stronger than Shadow is based on nothing, just because Sega as we saw didn't wanted to create a logical story.
Now about Frontiers... Why do we compare Sonic from Frontiers with Shadow from Generations(even when Shadow has doom power's)? It's unlogical because Sonic from Frontiers already growned up and for that becamed stronger. It would have logic to compare power's of this two hedgehogs only if we would see Shadow in Frontiers and would see what do Shadow learned for so much time and how powerful he becamed but we don't have anything, so with arguments from Frontiers I can't agree.
Also let's not forget about inhibitor rings which Shadow can take down and just became unstoppable machine. Yeah for time but Shadows stats without inhibitor rings are actually way bigger then we think and way bigger than Sonic's stats.
I appreciate the giant comment and admire the passion, but I’d prefer to chat in VC since JEEEZ that’s a massive comment 😅
Dude 😂, shadow is literally stronger than knuckles and sonic combined. Plus, people take when Shadow said, "You might be the ultimate life form sonic." That was a sign of respect. Shadow has sonic in 3 categories, bro raw physical strength, chaos abilities, and durability, bro. People keep disrespecting him because they won't do him justice, and a statement he said out of respect 😂 shadow acknowledges how strong sonic is but they are not equals by a large margin bro stop it. In a straight-up fight utilizing chaos powers and strength alone the blue hedgehog gets clapped just stop sleeping on this dude already it's just a game not what it is, situations be different or bad timing for a fight. 😂😂
Ofc Sonic from Frontiers dogs walks Shadow from Generations bc of the power scaling(like he said) bc
What can Sonic do that Shadow can't?
Watching this guy downplay doom powers is hilarious when Frontiers Sonic has even less abilities that can actually help him against Shadow 💀
Bro IDW Shadow it's canon so far Sonic in frontiers confirmed by talking about IDW new characters
One thing that is obvious to me is that the Bosses in generations are weak versions of the originals.
If the current Sonic has the strength of a super form in the adventure era,Why does he get hit by 4 super baniks in idw
idk maybe eggman be making stronger robots
At the level of the seven chaos emeralds, impossible
Jet the Hawk claps them both
No
for all we know shadow as of frontiers could easily beat sonic we dont know whats up with him rn
Well sonic is the main character and shadow has not had is own game since 2005 besides shadow generations it's like comparing a main character that constantly gets new feats vs a character in the same story who is equal but has nowhere the same amount of feats and screentime and games or movies comics