Thanks for the shout out buddy! Yeah I think Remedy is working behind the scenes to get the rights for this. Probably after the Max Payne remakes and Alan Wake 2. I'm just nervous what they are going to do for Door... I mean Hatch's character. RIP Lance Reddick.
Small correction to your definition of the butterfly effect; The theory is actually something along the lines of: the smallest event like a butterfly’s wings moving could kick up a tornado or storm somewhere else
When you really think about it, the lore dump boys are like the batfamily, always there when you need them the most even if you didn't know you needed them
@@LoreDump Okay but now you’ve gotta tag yourselves as the member of the batfam you’re most like. I expect your answers in the form of a single-spaced, four page essay lmao (I’m joking please god don’t actually write an essay y’all are already so busy oml)
2:22:45 i can't find any other comments explaining so even though it's been 7ish months, here i go: each individual time machine's limit is the date of it's first activation so that means that while paul's machine can only go back to the 1st chapter of the game, WILL'S can go all the way back to 1999. however, as you mentioned earlier, you can't travel through space with these machines so even though one of them was active in '99, that doesn't mean paul's machine can connect and utilize will's; he can't enter his own and exit will's. the cores are NOT the same.
I super expected that at the end, when there's the flash back to Jack whispering in Beth's ear, either Chase or Neil were going to break in to say that Jack whispers, *_"Nissan."_*
Three things: 1) You would not believe how much effort it took me not to make endless Doctor Who jokes about The End of Time. 2) "Are those pigeons? I hear a coup on the horizon" had me in actual stitches for at least 5 minutes, thanks for that Neil. 3) Be fair, guys: the sets for Primeval were better than that shit, and that absolutely says something.
20:00 ish. Jack is there because the university shut down the project. No one would help him with this test since it was determined to be unsafe. So Paul grabbed someone who had no clue what was going on to assist.
The best gift the TH-cam Algorithim gave me was pointing me to Monty's Bioshock reviews which lead me to Lore Dump. I'm a major introvert, so it's nice to get the simulated experience of sitting around a table with friends, drinking adult juices and getting passionate about nerd stuff.
the idea that Alan may have tried to make himself fictional in some of his “Return” attempts but can’t make himself fiction to the people in his universe and thus they manifest in other universes could explain his cameos here. He’s on TV, In video games, and maybe in literature based on the teachings in the class room all in a universe that isn’t his.
@2:21:35 also another explanation could be that Paul arrived at the time machine but didn't go outside and see where he was in relation to the city. He appeared in a large dark room and he immediately tried to use the time machine, but he was chased into the machine and time jumped away. So even If his memories were clear, the only thing he can remember about that moment is that he was in a huge room. If he was observant enough, he might have worked out what kind of room it was, but that's another explanation anyway.
Paul found Will's time machine in a cave in the future, where Beth had exited it, and he repaired it after Beth had been trying to for "a long time". He ended up in the future via the University time machine, which had it's core moved to Monarch in the last act of the game into a Time Machine that they had built, which is how Jack travelled back to the University from Monarch. The end of time will happen in 2021, and Will's time machine will be moved from the Swimming pool at some point in those 5 years.
I have to point out the errors here with where the time machine was 😂 Paul enter the future (the end of time) from his time machine. He later finds Wills machine and leave to the earliest date possible, which is 1999 (for Wills machine, since that is the first time it was activated). When he enters the machine in the future, we don't know if it's located at the swimming pool at that time. It could have been moved since, 2016 (the end of time occurs in 2021). But since his memories from the future is fading it doesn't really matter. When he leaves the machine and enters in 1999, the machine is located in Wills workshop at ground zero. But Will and Beth later move the machine to the swimming pool, so Paul can't find it. The game States that this cost them 12000 $ 😅 So that 's why Paul couldn' t find the machine.
27:40 Dude! I'm from a tiny, rural town in a small country in South America. You don't have to explain what "Bernard's Watch" (Bernardo y su Reloj) is to me. We had that show here ☺ It was one of my favorite things when I was a kid in the late '90s.
I remember Bernard's watch. Two specific episodes. One, where someone steals the watch and starts using it for evil, which was honestly kin'a terrifying when he stops time to put Bernard in a life threatening situation as a threat. Just one moment, having a conversation, next moment, Bernard's about to sawed in half. And the villain's saying how he can do this at Any Time, to him, to his family... And the other was the Last episode, where Bernard is about to move to America, and he's told by the guy who gave him the watch that he has to give it up. And the whole episode is about him dealing with losing it. And it ends with him on a plane, and then time stops, and another guy in the same uniform as the guy who gave him the watch walks up to him and hands him a Digital watch, because... America is more technologically advanced than England? Or something? It was dumb.
Bernard's Watch and Primeval references in a single episode? Incredible The Nissan rambling and the "Podca" joke had me on the floor, hilarious as always gents
Quick note, as far as my looking into shows Remedy was never owned by Microsoft and was always technically independent as a company, they did however sign an exclusivity deal with Microsoft for Alan wake and partnered yet again with them to produce QB while Microsoft published it in hopes of securing funding for future products. MS did own the rights to AW but remedy purchased them back in 2019. The funding for AW2 and the remaster are from a publishing deal which still allows them creative control and development through Epic Games which is why the remaster they were able to release on all platforms.
Thanks for getting me obsessed with Alan Wake this week guys. Not gonna watch this yet since Quantum Break (and then Control) is next on my list to play but I'll be back as soon as I'm done. Bright Falls really makes me hope we get that Alan Wake TV show someday. EDIT: I got to the first "episode" of Quantum Break which buffered every 4 seconds and realised I'd rather just watch a summary at that point. I fucking lost my mind when Neil mentioned Primeval because it was exactly what I was thinking.
"But will the really good stuff be really good if none of it makes sense?" Chase you're a Kingdom Hearts fan, you don't have a leg to stand on 🤣 Wonderful dump guys! So excited for the one on Control!!!
So actually remedy didn't buy back Alan Wake what happened was that when alan wake was made part of the contract was that if remedy left Microsoft and Microsoft didn't do anything with alan wake in a certain number of years it goes back to remedy
I never played Alan Wake or Quantum Break, but stumbled upon Control, and it quickly became one of my favorite games. I really appreciate your episodes on Alan Wake and Quantum Break to help me better understand the underlying lore, and I can't wait for you guys to cover Control! Been loving your channel and Monty's critiques. Please keep at it!
The answer to Paul not knowing the machine is in the swimming hall is that the machine was originally in Will's workshop and moved to the swimming hall only after Paul and Beth arrived in the past. It was Beth who told Will to move it there.
This is so weird, listening to this. I used to work with a guy called Jack Joyce, and I still keep in touch with him to this day. Hearing that name is throwing me for a loop.
It never fails. I avoid the lore dump episode because I see 3 hours of content... But then I start watching and become obsessed with the episode until I'm finished. I never cared for any Remedy games but I feel so invested now lmao Thanks Guys!
I really enjoyed this. The ideas about time travel are always fun to listen to. I think that the choices made by the player is time and universally consistent in game no matter what. There are no changes to the timeline and whatever the player picked is what has and always will happen. I think about the different outcomes more like alt. universes than timelines in order to maintain the closed loop idea, kind of like in the HP franchise with the time turners. But as always I loved your stuff!
I think the only things I would add on is some more open mysteries. Like the identity of Artemis whom Paul mentioned multiple times on the white board timeline. How ridiculous Nick is as a conspiracy theorist and 01122 code which weirdly enough is mentioned by Dr. Morphin and Dr. Ranger in the Quantum Ripple research lab. Blanch McDougal who also shows up in those research reports being a pseudonym that Nick used. It's weird how Alan Wake is involved here. Both the books and video game exist. Jack even has a line saying he enjoys Wake as a writer upon finding a copy of The Sudden Stop in a medical facility. We know Alice took over the IP for her 'missing' husband while Barry continued to handle the publishing. Who knows.
As someone who didn't play Quantum Break, would appreciate it if you could make a video on the significance of the code you mentioned, if it's video-material. And also I'd love to hear your opinion on timestap 2:21:10
Just a note on the Steins;Gate mention: The visual novel actually goes into great depth regarding how the time travel works, though the anime obviously abridged a lot of this technical content. It's heavily utilizing actual scientific theory and what may come across as technobabble in the anime is actually based on sound theories around quantum physics and the like. It's basically as close to real science as it gets, while still being fiction and telling a particular story within this framework. Okabe's "Reading Steiner" is also based around observation (think: Schrödinger's Cat) rather than simply a time travel ability. But most importantly: the story ain't random with its looping/reset points, and it's elaborated on in the source material. Similar can be said for the other SciAdv titles (Chaos;Head, Chaos;Child, Steins;Gate 0 and Robotics;Notes) - they're obviously fiction, but they ooze familiarity with the science behind it. Also, the English Dub is absolutely NOT better than the original Japanese one. The mere fact that Miyano Mamoru, Imai Asami and Hanazawa Kana are voicing main characters is enough on that account.
I'm watching through these remedyverse videos on the request of a friend, mostly so I can strongarm him into watching the KH videos in turn. Maybe it's because I'm a massive JRPG nut like Chase, but so far the KH videos are far more comprehensible to me.
Nice to see yall back!! I love listening to this one on my drive. Thanks for the content. Also, the blue controller looks like it has the worst little mustache. I appreciate it.
I love that I started listening to muse like a couple days before the American nightmare video and was like wow I actually really enjoy this only for one of my favourite TH-camrs to diss it out of nowhere completely unrelated to anything else
Awesome. Been waiting on this. Been a pleasure enjoying the personalities of you 3. Got hooked on the KH vids and the hilarious commentary. Unnecessary fan request: How about the Persona games, for just the reactionary commentary alone.
I think the idea for the choices you can make for the villain are, he can see the future of the consequences of his choices. After he makes the choice, time is set in stone. Everything that that happend, did happen or will happen. Weather or not people actually KNOW what happend is the real question.
1:19:33 what if Paul doesn’t think you can change the future because if you kill the protesters or not, jack still ends up in the same places doing the same things so maybe you can only change certain things
Monty you need to shout out your podcast at the end of your main videos as I didn’t know you had one & I’ve been binging them & they are just awesome, what an awesome idea for a podcast, keep up the hard work ❤ much love as always from Iowa
Quantum break seemed like a good idea on paper but had “too many cooks in the kitchen” that muddled its execution. And as soon as you try to introduce time travel that opens up an entire can of worms on its own. It had a lot of things going for it, an all star cast, innovative concepts, gorgeous graphics. I’ve even had friends say it was an interesting experience and they enjoyed it. But every time someone talks about it, from Monty’s critiques, friend reviews, and now lore dumps, it seems like it just missed the mark of its potential. I could see how in the remedy verse this could be a jumping point for maybe a multiverse that bleeds all the remedy verse together, or perhaps as suggested here, Alan attempting to find a way out via time travel, to see if that concept could work in his universe. I think remedy has an interesting opportunity here either way with all of their games and now with Alan Wake 2 on the way to create an Avengers Level team up/cross over for the Video Game Medium of media the likes of which, to my knowledge, hasn’t been attempted yet. A game that contains Jesse, Alan, Jack, and Max all attempting to route this multiverses darkness blending together all aspects of the respective games in an episodic adventure seems like it has limitless potential. Regardless Sam Lake is a madman with an artistic vision and I hope he can bring it to fruition. Great episode as always boys. I can’t wait for the next one. May 1st seems so far away now lol. Thankfully I can spend my time waiting in todays sponsor, the all new 2024 Nissan Sentra.
1:14:31 Quantum Break feels like instead of a game with some live action scenes Microsoft made a show then told Remedy to tack on a game as an afterthought.
What if: What if this is just a natural thing that happens and the stutters are just a natural process that always happen, what if time always stuttered in various lengths and various frequencies? What if the "end of time" was just a very very long stutter? And since no normal person registers the stutters, even if it was 100 years long, they would just continue normally when time resumed. What if the Dinosaurs died because a comet was fast forwarded into a friggin planet? What if Shifters are tied to a secondary effect and are just occasionally wiped, or tied to a time threshold, because otherwise Hatch would know PRECICELY when it happens. What if Shifters go through multiple pubertys were they are extra mad and it whipes their memories and every shifter turns into another person that is not aware of the natural time flutters? Oh, and if there are time caves, would there not be shifter dinosaurs and shifter insects etc?
I''m most disappointed that there's a boat scene in the game - according to Monty one of the standout moments - and yet that WASN'T the lifeboat so gloriously built and anticlimaxed further down the line.
Ahh wonderful, a new lore dump!!! I'm currently recovering from surgery on a broken leg, and I think my lifeline in the coming days will be long form vids like this!
My pet theory about what caused the end of time is ... Spoilers
Is that they cause "the end of time" by the act of artificial time travel. I think that the writer of the story was reading about Schrodinger's Cat and was inspired by the idea that potentiality can only exist when it is not observed. So like in Schrodinger's thought experiment, the cat can be either alive or dead as long as you don't open the box. When you open the box and observe what's inside, the potentiality of that quantum waveform collapses, and you become entangled in either of those states but NOT both. In other words, you create a single reality in which the cat can only be either dead or alive. So my pet theory is that artificial time travel is like opening the box. As soon as you pull yourself out of the natural flow of time and open the box and look inside, the quantum waveform collapses, and potentiality is set as you become entangled with it. This causes the cataclysm that the characters call "the end of time". Whether it actually IS the end of time is irrelevant. It could just be another form of time that for us, as beings who exist linearly in time and who are chronologically bound, cannot comprehend. So when the characters say that time cannot be changed, they really mean it, because as soon as you artificially time travel, you essentially cause that to happen. Also, it may not be the end of time objectively for all people. It may only be ONE parallel reality that has been afflicted. If Quantum Break follows the Many Worlds interpretation of time travel, then there are other realities in which the end of time did not occur. This follows in the Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment. For anyone who didn't observe the cat, the waveform is uncollapsed. It only collapses for the observer. And even so, in a Many Worlds interpretation, the cat still exists in ANOTHER state but in a separate reality. In QB, we only follow the viewpoint of Jack in his reality which has collapsed. So it's also possible that a powerful time shifter could move between parallel realities. Additionally, in Control, when Dylan talks about his various dreams, he is obviously talking about parallel realities. And in one of those "dreams", he meets Mr Door (Martin Hatch) who tells him that parallel reality exist. So anyway, when the characters say time cannot be changed, they are not lying, but they can only experience time from their perspective, and they "opened the box and observed the cat" when they travelled in time, and therefore potentiality in their reality is collapsed, i.e. events cannot be changed.
It's a really cool theory, but at the same time, there is an actual mention of a "natural" time travel, which Mr Door/Hatch experienced. And seemingly, he also witnessed (and succumbed) to the end of time. And with Schrodinger's Cat, in the game it is basically presented as a fact - if event was observed, then it's set in stone, at least that's what everyone was trying to make Jack to understand. So, following this line, it is probably safe to assume that whatever was done in the events in the game is basically irrelevant since Hatch already was at the end of time, so it is already set in stone, and it probably doesn't matter which form of time travel occurred for it to be set. But, something that actually might contradict what we (and Jack) were told, and contradicts whole "fact" about unchanging time - why would Hatch do anything he does if he's certain that whatever happens, will bring the end of time. Unless it is not set in stone (and basically why game ends with question if Jack still believes that anything can be changed, still leaving this uncertainty), and that's why Hatch tries to actively get his way to actually make end of time happen. Leading to my theory - it is a fact that time cannot be changed and events that happened cannot "unhappen", BUT it is tied to the observer in a more literal way. Meaning, if every entity that observed the end of time (and maybe those who have chronon disease/powers) would be destroyed in "current" time, it would "uncollapse" that potentiality of quantum waveforms, or whatever, which would mean that future would never happen as there's nothing left which "pins" it. It doesn't tie in that well into the Schrodinger's Cat explanation, since you can't really close the box and make the fate of the cat uncertain again, but in a way that's basically destroying anything that would open the box/keeps the box open, which probably would mean, as I see it, box closing and the content again becoming uncertain for anyone who wasn't a direct observer, as they don't know 100% what's in there, they were only told about it. Maybe, in some way, more accurate analogy would be particle-wave nature of photons - when they're unobserved, they behave as a wave, leaving pattern of "probabilities", and when they are observed or measured they end up in pattern of behavior as particles. So basically, removing "observers" of the particles would set them back to being waves, bringing back wave pattern behavior, and probabilities with uncertainties. So for improbable, but potential sequel it would mean finding a way to destroy Hatch "for good", maybe Paul coming back as a shifter and getting rid of him as well, and Jack trying to rescue Beth in some way, but eventually not succeeding in it and learning that to truly close the loop he would need to also take himself out, too (or to make it extra tragic, being forced to take out Beth "for good" as well as she also was at the end of time). And probably also a way to get rid of those gathered chronon particles/time machines cores, and whatever else it can be in. And I think it also could, to some extent, explain the junctions that happen with Paul (and teased with Jack) - since Paul (and noone from "current" timeline, except maybe Hatch) didn't observe the events between 2016-2021, he doesn't know exact events which would happen, only that end of time will happen, and a rough point when it will be, and it's reflected on his predictions board - it's a "blur" after 2016 as that's what he plans/assumes what happens there, so the box for those events is closed for him specifically, and chronon powers basically can give him a "peek" at what could happen (as they weren't set by anyone or anything yet). As for the cause of end of time, I think it's something in-between time traveling in general, and an incident similar to what happened in 2016, but set in the future - general time travel sets in stone via Hatch that end of time will happen (which hypothetically could be prevented by example above), but actual end of time is caused by man-made solution - speculating on the end teaser, I would imagine that Hatch could trick Jack into either pursuing rescuing Beth (and sabotaging it, causing 2016 incident all over again), or maybe even building a new device which would specifically make end of time happen (with promise of ability to actually change the past, or some bs like that). It sort of relies too much on Hatch being an active force, and being probably somewhat of a cliché, but with Paul gone, and Hatches nature being explained to some degree, maybe already too much was given away for me to come up with some more clever motivation (as well as with theory above).
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. Also totally forgot about those experiments with photons and how they change under observation or measurement. And the fact that the whole game hinges on the idea of chronon particles could be a hint to that. Perhaps they are actually chronon waves.
Always good to hear people talking about Beth. I love her Also, glad to see you didn't completely ignore Time knife, the greatest piece of writing Remedy has ever put in their games Can't wait for the Control video, and see how boys react to Darling and Ahti. Kippis
Love the Lore Dump very much. It is extremely fun to listen to, and a good way to learn the story from these games! p.s. We love Monty accents here okay after your retelling of ' time is the egg' scene, I checked out the actual cutscene and yeah, Jack is definitely a 'well-meaning total DUMBass'. But also, this feels like a key lesson here, because CONTROL could have easily stepped into the same plotholes and completely unnessesary (or, at least optional) exposition. Jack is a little bit of an idiot, he has a steep learning curve of these extraordinary events happening all around him, and this doesn`t make him more relatable to the player, on the contrary, his exclamations and shock are more of a nuisance. Remedy learned this during work of Quantum Break, and this is exactly why Jesse is complete opposite - she`s a total natural in this alien office buareucracy, and a much better protagonist because of it. Jack is just...not at all phased that he had just killed a man huh? Time travel - yeah that is WEIRD, Oh No, What is happening to me???? but shooting a person down? Nah, it`s fine it`s time travel, nothing is true, everything is permitted, yada yada. Huge kudos to Monty for keeping the Lore Dump insteractive as is the story of the game!!! 10/10 preparation, awesome. Rock-paper-scissors had me equally laughing and being horrified the tonal shifts in here are making hysterically loose it. 'I had to kill some people at work' - 'I dreamed you were a cat', the hell, this is like a bad movie that is so bad it is actually good. Time and space are intertwined, so displacing some shipping containers seems alright to me. The Wine and Cheese Crowd segment has the BEST Monty reading voice. Those Nissan adds are better than actual advertisement. I need a spacious car to cry freely in my life with antiscratch paint. Jack is truly too dumb to have character development. Repsect to all the actors though, they really did the best they could with the script and dialogue they were given. It`s kind of sad Quantum Break is this messy, it could have been better for sure, but it still sounds very intruiging and like an okay-ish Remedy game. I still feel like they learned hard, painfully and a lot throught the development of Quantum, and applied all that experience to CONTROL, because CONTROL is a great game and avoided a lot of the missteps Quantum has. Great Lore Dump as always)
The time machine in 1999 is not at the swimming pool, it's at the "ground zero" workshop. Beth helps get it moved to the swimming pool after she arrives in 1999.
I love this podcast, thank you so much to you guys for it, and especially for this episode because as a PlayStation Remedy fan I can't play Quantum Break so I really appreciate this. I did know all about the Alan Wake references tho (besides the Sudden Stop admittedly), and I believe the connection is not very complicated. I think Alan Wake is simply a game inside of Quantum Break's universe, and while things like Night Springs or the Sudden Stop lean more towards easter egg territory they can still be explained to make sense in universe. It could be possible that the whole thing was a Return attempt, but it'd be way too complicated and wouldn't fit much with Alan's style. I highly recommend Hidden Machine's videos on this topic. A couple things that you missed that I think could add to the discussion for when you cover the Control AWE dlc and if you guys cover the Alan Wake II trailer: The AWE graffiti and the AWE in the blackboard ("Alan Wake Experience?"), the remark of the initiation phase in the hero's journey that's also in the black board (which relates to this House of Dreams and the AWII trailer) and the name of Alex Casey 's partner: Saga Anderson (likely related to the Old Gods). A very fun listen, again thank you for this and I can't wait for the Control episode (and Mr. Door... RIP Lance Reddick), which is going to be a huge undertaking for Monty, so I wish you the best!
Why do I have an overwhelming desire to purchase a Nissan? Lmao Excellent episode! I had a good giggle on this one. Can't wait for the next one! Thank you gents, for the awesome entertainment!
So, dude goes back in time, causes the homeless guy to fall, then assumes time can't be changed. Feels like a Very small sample size? And if he can go back, why doesn't he go back there Again, and try a second time, other than "Because if he thought to do that, it would Immediately destroy the narrative because he'd see himself, when he didn't the first time he went back"? And the board of stuff they tried to prevent, and failed, raises questions. And Maybe there's answers, but I don't see how you can fuck up "Call up the airport, and say you stuck a bomb on one of the planes." And I don't think the writers could figure out an answer either. And even if it doesn't stop 9/11, It's gonna alter the timeline. The flight would be delayed, the threat would probably wind up on the news, that's still an altered timeline, so you'd have proof that you Did alter it. So long as you have a time machine that can get you when you want, it's Really Easy to prove "fate" wrong.
Damn three and a half hours of Quantum Break lore 😮...one of my most favorite games on PC/Xbox. This has to be one of the most beautiful and underrated games of all times and still looks incredible in 2023 for a game that was released years ago...
I know I'm a bit late to this, but Paul ended up in the future via his own time machine core which ended up in the Monarch time machine in the last act of the game. When Will built the original time machine, it wasn't at the swimming pool, but his workshop in Ground Zero. Paul found a time machine with Will's core in it in a cave while being chased by Beth in the future, and they travelled back to 1999 to when Will first turned it on. Paul fled after attacking Will, while Beth stayed to tell Will about the end of time, and told him to move the Time Machine because Paul will come looking. Will moved it to the Pool after that and never went back there, allowing Beth to settle there and await Jack's return. We know that the End of time is 2021 because Paul meant to go 5 minutes into the future, but the machine malfunctioned and blasted Jack and Paul, and sent him 5 years instead. With time frozen he would obviously pick up on the date by finding newspapers on sale etc while scavenging, same as Beth. In the 5 years following the events of the game and with Jack now working for Monarch, either Will or Jack would end up moving his time machine core to the cave where Paul would find it and where Beth would emerge, and from the looks of what we see of the machine in the future during their fight once he finds the machine, it's the same design as the university one. Given how open Microsoft have been with their previously exclusive IPs going cross platform now with Sea of Thieves, Grounded and Hi-Fi Rush as well as Bethesda and Activision-Blizzard games continuing to be on other platforms, it's very likely that Remedy have been allowed to use the IP outright rather than buying it, especially after the success of Alan Wake 2 and just how heavily of an advertising push it got on Xbox even though it was an Epic published game. if not, perhaps Epic has made the deal with them for it, especially with the rumours of Xbox opening up to allowing Steam to be accessible on console. Only time will tell, though it's a similar IP issue to Sunset Overdrive, which Sony now have the rights to after buying Insomniac. Sony cannot produce a remaster of the 1st game for Playstation because Microsoft own the rights to that game. But making a sequel would make no sense to those that didn't play the first game, so Insomniac are stuck making Ratchet & Clank and Spider-Man for the foreseeable future
So here's my thoughts, I like the idea that Quantum Break is a failed attempt at Alan Wake trying to write himself out of the lake. More specifically that he failed to write a hero who could save him, because Jack is so fucking lame and Jesse is so goddamn cool and her coming to his rescue is much much more interesting, then if it was "guy with time powers for some reason". It reminds of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 6, the Bohemian Rhapsody fight. The enemy has the power to make fictional character all over the world come alive and they defeat it by making up a new character that has the power to put them all back in their place. Jesse feels like that, someone who you can believe has the capacity to get someone out of an unfathomably powerful supernatural lake. And the reason I love it so much is because this conforms to the rules of the lake, like imagine if Jack "beige" Joyce were to come to the rescue of writer Alan Wake. Why would he do that? How would he do that? I can't imagine a good answer for these questions, but if it's Jesse? I can see it.
“How would you feel if you knew a corporate monopoly was taking a massive dump all over your personal history.” I think Sam might have had some thoughts about his deal with Microsoft.
I got recommended this via Alan wake, listened to all of kingdom hearts episodes after those few episodes, and am now a fan for life! Can’t wait to hear you to cover Control and looking forward to Alan Wake 2!
The most jarring point in the story is when Burke strangles the would be wife assassin and 20 people stand there watching, including two armed security guards. Nobody tries to stop Burke or runs after him out of the hospital. Just garbage writing, they should at least establish that Monarch people are completely above the law, even in civilian clothes. I don't think that ever was the writing though, they just slapped together a way for the wife to see Burke being a killer.
i absolutely adore my lore dump boys. i’m going to spend as long as i can listening on my work shift. i’m so glad Neil’s ad reads got left in. i was in the need of a new car and for some reason i think i know the brand i should get.
I feel like a thing doesn't have to have been particularly good in a way for a lead actor or cast to get really passionate about it. Ashmore seems like a Sci-Fi fan (he'll always pop up as 'Oh! Jake from Animorphs!' to my Millennial Sci-Fi brain, so I can see him being like 'I wanna be in more cool projects put me in coach!' regardless or whether the legality makes sense or not. Just Shawn Ashmore standing outside cool genre projects asking if they have any available roles. It really is funny that despite having an identical twin, it doesn't sound like there was a scene where they brought Aaron in to play body double and make Jack act against himself. One would think with identical twin actors that would be the first thing you do with a time travel script...
So I finally finished this video. Yes it took me nearly 5 days to do. I have to stress it’s not because of you guys. In fact your banter together in this one might be my favorite so far. It was the fact that I kept having to restart the video because my brain was being broken by the story. But I have concluded it finally and I have some things to say. This game is clearly flawed, lots of story issues, the whole merging of tv and games not working very well, and a frankly dumb protagonist but I can’t deny that I’ve seen very few games with as much passion and ambition as this game had. You can tell that they were truly trying to revolutionize the industry. The attention to detail between the gameplay and tv episodes, making sure to keep everything consistent shows this. Despite the final product I have nothing but respect for the effort that was put into it and I salute Sam Lake and Remedy. That being said I do have a question for Monty. When looking up the Remedyverse I found this quote from the Control Wiki “The Remedy Connected Universe is known to include Alan Wake and Control. It is known to not include the game Quantum Break. The official status of Remedy Entertainment's other games, Death Rally and Max Payne, within this universe is not yet known.” What does this mean for Quantum Break and does it imply these other games could be part of the Remedyverse?
We go into it when the Control episode releases, but I don’t think Quantum Break is going to be relevant in the future of the Remedyverse, but wanted to show Chase all the silliness because as a game it’s pretty wild. The thing is the ONLY crossover I thought would come… would be Martin Hatch -because he’s referenced in Control - but now Lance Reddick has passed that’s going to be unlikely
THE NEXT EPISODE IS LIVE NOW!
CONTROL - LORE DUMP
th-cam.com/video/TLH6434Wp2A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LoreDump
Control? Really looking forward to seeing it all come together
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy
I *cannot* wait that long!
Sounds like an Ordinary episode..
Thanks for the shout out buddy!
Yeah I think Remedy is working behind the scenes to get the rights for this. Probably after the Max Payne remakes and Alan Wake 2. I'm just nervous what they are going to do for Door... I mean Hatch's character. RIP Lance Reddick.
So if I'm understanding this game right, time is not a lake...
It's an *egg*
My eggs
My eggs
He begs he begs
To be the father of my eggs
The explanation when characters know things that they shouldn't: Time is an egg and the egg is broken. Now the yolk is just leaking into everything.
If Monty and Neil allow Chase to unleash the insanity of Yakuza for lore dump I will Tiger Drop the like button a million times
As of now that would easily be my second favorite lore dump
Saaaaaame PLEASE BOYS
did you end up tiger dropping the like button a million times?
And now we wait for yakuza 3
Small correction to your definition of the butterfly effect;
The theory is actually something along the lines of: the smallest event like a butterfly’s wings moving could kick up a tornado or storm somewhere else
When you really think about it, the lore dump boys are like the batfamily, always there when you need them the most even if you didn't know you needed them
I’m taking this comparison and running with it I love it so much
Well damn! Thank you!- Neil
@@LoreDump Okay but now you’ve gotta tag yourselves as the member of the batfam you’re most like. I expect your answers in the form of a single-spaced, four page essay lmao
(I’m joking please god don’t actually write an essay y’all are already so busy oml)
So who's getting killed with a crowbar?
I totally agree
2:22:45 i can't find any other comments explaining so even though it's been 7ish months, here i go: each individual time machine's limit is the date of it's first activation so that means that while paul's machine can only go back to the 1st chapter of the game, WILL'S can go all the way back to 1999. however, as you mentioned earlier, you can't travel through space with these machines so even though one of them was active in '99, that doesn't mean paul's machine can connect and utilize will's; he can't enter his own and exit will's. the cores are NOT the same.
I super expected that at the end, when there's the flash back to Jack whispering in Beth's ear, either Chase or Neil were going to break in to say that Jack whispers, *_"Nissan."_*
Three things:
1) You would not believe how much effort it took me not to make endless Doctor Who jokes about The End of Time.
2) "Are those pigeons? I hear a coup on the horizon" had me in actual stitches for at least 5 minutes, thanks for that Neil.
3) Be fair, guys: the sets for Primeval were better than that shit, and that absolutely says something.
20:00 ish. Jack is there because the university shut down the project. No one would help him with this test since it was determined to be unsafe. So Paul grabbed someone who had no clue what was going on to assist.
The best gift the TH-cam Algorithim gave me was pointing me to Monty's Bioshock reviews which lead me to Lore Dump. I'm a major introvert, so it's nice to get the simulated experience of sitting around a table with friends, drinking adult juices and getting passionate about nerd stuff.
the idea that Alan may have tried to make himself fictional in some of his “Return” attempts but can’t make himself fiction to the people in his universe and thus they manifest in other universes could explain his cameos here. He’s on TV, In video games, and maybe in literature based on the teachings in the class room all in a universe that isn’t his.
@2:21:35 also another explanation could be that Paul arrived at the time machine but didn't go outside and see where he was in relation to the city. He appeared in a large dark room and he immediately tried to use the time machine, but he was chased into the machine and time jumped away. So even If his memories were clear, the only thing he can remember about that moment is that he was in a huge room. If he was observant enough, he might have worked out what kind of room it was, but that's another explanation anyway.
Paul found Will's time machine in a cave in the future, where Beth had exited it, and he repaired it after Beth had been trying to for "a long time". He ended up in the future via the University time machine, which had it's core moved to Monarch in the last act of the game into a Time Machine that they had built, which is how Jack travelled back to the University from Monarch. The end of time will happen in 2021, and Will's time machine will be moved from the Swimming pool at some point in those 5 years.
I love the fact that Chase and Neil decided the fate of poor children with Rock Paper Scissors. 😂
Poor children? They need to be alive for monetary value to be attached.
Hearing how they engage with/analyse the time travel in the story makes me really interested to see how they receive Bioshock Infinite
I have to point out the errors here with where the time machine was 😂
Paul enter the future (the end of time) from his time machine. He later finds Wills machine and leave to the earliest date possible, which is 1999 (for Wills machine, since that is the first time it was activated).
When he enters the machine in the future, we don't know if it's located at the swimming pool at that time. It could have been moved since, 2016 (the end of time occurs in 2021). But since his memories from the future is fading it doesn't really matter. When he leaves the machine and enters in 1999, the machine is located in Wills workshop at ground zero. But Will and Beth later move the machine to the swimming pool, so Paul can't find it. The game States that this cost them 12000 $ 😅 So that 's why Paul couldn' t find the machine.
My life was in need of another Lore Dump. Thank you all, I will try to make free time to listen to this.
27:40 Dude! I'm from a tiny, rural town in a small country in South America. You don't have to explain what "Bernard's Watch" (Bernardo y su Reloj) is to me.
We had that show here ☺
It was one of my favorite things when I was a kid in the late '90s.
I remember Bernard's watch. Two specific episodes.
One, where someone steals the watch and starts using it for evil, which was honestly kin'a terrifying when he stops time to put Bernard in a life threatening situation as a threat. Just one moment, having a conversation, next moment, Bernard's about to sawed in half. And the villain's saying how he can do this at Any Time, to him, to his family...
And the other was the Last episode, where Bernard is about to move to America, and he's told by the guy who gave him the watch that he has to give it up. And the whole episode is about him dealing with losing it. And it ends with him on a plane, and then time stops, and another guy in the same uniform as the guy who gave him the watch walks up to him and hands him a Digital watch, because... America is more technologically advanced than England? Or something? It was dumb.
Bernard's Watch and Primeval references in a single episode? Incredible
The Nissan rambling and the "Podca" joke had me on the floor, hilarious as always gents
Quick note, as far as my looking into shows Remedy was never owned by Microsoft and was always technically independent as a company, they did however sign an exclusivity deal with Microsoft for Alan wake and partnered yet again with them to produce QB while Microsoft published it in hopes of securing funding for future products. MS did own the rights to AW but remedy purchased them back in 2019. The funding for AW2 and the remaster are from a publishing deal which still allows them creative control and development through Epic Games which is why the remaster they were able to release on all platforms.
My comment ages very poorly after watching to the end lol
Thanks for getting me obsessed with Alan Wake this week guys. Not gonna watch this yet since Quantum Break (and then Control) is next on my list to play but I'll be back as soon as I'm done.
Bright Falls really makes me hope we get that Alan Wake TV show someday.
EDIT: I got to the first "episode" of Quantum Break which buffered every 4 seconds and realised I'd rather just watch a summary at that point.
I fucking lost my mind when Neil mentioned Primeval because it was exactly what I was thinking.
"But will the really good stuff be really good if none of it makes sense?" Chase you're a Kingdom Hearts fan, you don't have a leg to stand on 🤣
Wonderful dump guys! So excited for the one on Control!!!
Guys this is like my favorite of your videos, you're all hysterical in this! So glad Nissan turned out their pockets so we could have this episode
So actually remedy didn't buy back Alan Wake what happened was that when alan wake was made part of the contract was that if remedy left Microsoft and Microsoft didn't do anything with alan wake in a certain number of years it goes back to remedy
I absolutely loved this. interaction is fantastic and honestly laughed out loud, i rate this episode "nissan car's" out of 10
12:53 when you realise Dylan’s the one driving the car 🤭
This lore dump is infinitely more entertaining than the entirety of quantum break.
Great job lads.
I never played Alan Wake or Quantum Break, but stumbled upon Control, and it quickly became one of my favorite games. I really appreciate your episodes on Alan Wake and Quantum Break to help me better understand the underlying lore, and I can't wait for you guys to cover Control! Been loving your channel and Monty's critiques. Please keep at it!
The answer to Paul not knowing the machine is in the swimming hall is that the machine was originally in Will's workshop and moved to the swimming hall only after Paul and Beth arrived in the past. It was Beth who told Will to move it there.
This is so weird, listening to this. I used to work with a guy called Jack Joyce, and I still keep in touch with him to this day. Hearing that name is throwing me for a loop.
The Nissan bit around 2:44:00 finally made me figure it out
Neil-Sarcastic Chaos
Monty-I’m so done with this Chaos
Chase-American/Pure Chaos
It never fails. I avoid the lore dump episode because I see 3 hours of content... But then I start watching and become obsessed with the episode until I'm finished. I never cared for any Remedy games but I feel so invested now lmao Thanks Guys!
My heart fills with a joy not felt in a long time whenever I see y’all upload. Thank you
When Chase was asking about why they needed Will’s time machine - didn’t Paul’s explode at the start of the game?
3 and a half hours of Lore Dump? You truly spoil us Monty, what a blessed day!
Catching up on these but I can't help but think, "Yeah, the time knife. We've seen it," from The Good Place.
I really enjoyed this. The ideas about time travel are always fun to listen to. I think that the choices made by the player is time and universally consistent in game no matter what. There are no changes to the timeline and whatever the player picked is what has and always will happen. I think about the different outcomes more like alt. universes than timelines in order to maintain the closed loop idea, kind of like in the HP franchise with the time turners. But as always I loved your stuff!
I think the only things I would add on is some more open mysteries. Like the identity of Artemis whom Paul mentioned multiple times on the white board timeline. How ridiculous Nick is as a conspiracy theorist and 01122 code which weirdly enough is mentioned by Dr. Morphin and Dr. Ranger in the Quantum Ripple research lab. Blanch McDougal who also shows up in those research reports being a pseudonym that Nick used.
It's weird how Alan Wake is involved here. Both the books and video game exist. Jack even has a line saying he enjoys Wake as a writer upon finding a copy of The Sudden Stop in a medical facility. We know Alice took over the IP for her 'missing' husband while Barry continued to handle the publishing. Who knows.
As someone who didn't play Quantum Break, would appreciate it if you could make a video on the significance of the code you mentioned, if it's video-material. And also I'd love to hear your opinion on timestap 2:21:10
You know, words can never quite describe the feeling of a new Lore Dump in my inbox.
After listening to the two Alan Wake episodes I went and played it. What an incredible game, best game I've played in 2023 so far
Thank you for doing these. I really loved Monty's review for this game and I am now excited for the Lore Dump.
time travel? *grabs popcorn*
this gon be goooood
Just a note on the Steins;Gate mention: The visual novel actually goes into great depth regarding how the time travel works, though the anime obviously abridged a lot of this technical content. It's heavily utilizing actual scientific theory and what may come across as technobabble in the anime is actually based on sound theories around quantum physics and the like. It's basically as close to real science as it gets, while still being fiction and telling a particular story within this framework. Okabe's "Reading Steiner" is also based around observation (think: Schrödinger's Cat) rather than simply a time travel ability. But most importantly: the story ain't random with its looping/reset points, and it's elaborated on in the source material.
Similar can be said for the other SciAdv titles (Chaos;Head, Chaos;Child, Steins;Gate 0 and Robotics;Notes) - they're obviously fiction, but they ooze familiarity with the science behind it.
Also, the English Dub is absolutely NOT better than the original Japanese one. The mere fact that Miyano Mamoru, Imai Asami and Hanazawa Kana are voicing main characters is enough on that account.
I'm watching through these remedyverse videos on the request of a friend, mostly so I can strongarm him into watching the KH videos in turn. Maybe it's because I'm a massive JRPG nut like Chase, but so far the KH videos are far more comprehensible to me.
Absolutely was not expecting a Bernard's Watch reference, but I am delighted to be reminded of it
Nice to see yall back!! I love listening to this one on my drive. Thanks for the content. Also, the blue controller looks like it has the worst little mustache. I appreciate it.
Finally caught up on this cannot wait to get into the Control episode thanks for this episode and glad to hear a shout out for gaming university.
I love that I started listening to muse like a couple days before the American nightmare video and was like wow I actually really enjoy this only for one of my favourite TH-camrs to diss it out of nowhere completely unrelated to anything else
Awesome. Been waiting on this. Been a pleasure enjoying the personalities of you 3. Got hooked on the KH vids and the hilarious commentary.
Unnecessary fan request: How about the Persona games, for just the reactionary commentary alone.
I think the idea for the choices you can make for the villain are, he can see the future of the consequences of his choices. After he makes the choice, time is set in stone. Everything that that happend, did happen or will happen. Weather or not people actually KNOW what happend is the real question.
1:19:33 what if Paul doesn’t think you can change the future because if you kill the protesters or not, jack still ends up in the same places doing the same things so maybe you can only change certain things
The Alan Wake lore dump convinced me to play it…just finished episode 3. SOOOO good so far!
Still waiting for Alan Wake 2!!!!
Monty you need to shout out your podcast at the end of your main videos as I didn’t know you had one & I’ve been binging them & they are just awesome, what an awesome idea for a podcast, keep up the hard work ❤ much love as always from Iowa
I got COVID and watched the entire Kingdom Hearts series... It made it make more sense
Quantum break seemed like a good idea on paper but had “too many cooks in the kitchen” that muddled its execution. And as soon as you try to introduce time travel that opens up an entire can of worms on its own. It had a lot of things going for it, an all star cast, innovative concepts, gorgeous graphics. I’ve even had friends say it was an interesting experience and they enjoyed it. But every time someone talks about it, from Monty’s critiques, friend reviews, and now lore dumps, it seems like it just missed the mark of its potential. I could see how in the remedy verse this could be a jumping point for maybe a multiverse that bleeds all the remedy verse together, or perhaps as suggested here, Alan attempting to find a way out via time travel, to see if that concept could work in his universe. I think remedy has an interesting opportunity here either way with all of their games and now with Alan Wake 2 on the way to create an Avengers Level team up/cross over for the Video Game Medium of media the likes of which, to my knowledge, hasn’t been attempted yet. A game that contains Jesse, Alan, Jack, and Max all attempting to route this multiverses darkness blending together all aspects of the respective games in an episodic adventure seems like it has limitless potential. Regardless Sam Lake is a madman with an artistic vision and I hope he can bring it to fruition. Great episode as always boys. I can’t wait for the next one. May 1st seems so far away now lol. Thankfully I can spend my time waiting in todays sponsor, the all new 2024 Nissan Sentra.
I still think the mix of TV and video game idea is neat
1:14:31 Quantum Break feels like instead of a game with some live action scenes Microsoft made a show then told Remedy to tack on a game as an afterthought.
What if:
What if this is just a natural thing that happens and the stutters are just a natural process that always happen, what if time always stuttered in various lengths and various frequencies?
What if the "end of time" was just a very very long stutter? And since no normal person registers the stutters, even if it was 100 years long, they would just continue normally when time resumed.
What if the Dinosaurs died because a comet was fast forwarded into a friggin planet?
What if Shifters are tied to a secondary effect and are just occasionally wiped, or tied to a time threshold, because otherwise Hatch would know PRECICELY when it happens.
What if Shifters go through multiple pubertys were they are extra mad and it whipes their memories and every shifter turns into another person that is not aware of the natural time flutters?
Oh, and if there are time caves, would there not be shifter dinosaurs and shifter insects etc?
Just woke up and now I get to listen to new Lore Dump! Thank you for making this :)
These guys are gonna have a field day after Alan Wake 2
I''m most disappointed that there's a boat scene in the game - according to Monty one of the standout moments - and yet that WASN'T the lifeboat so gloriously built and anticlimaxed further down the line.
I just finished listening to the Alan Wake DLC one over the weekend. Great timing!
Ahh wonderful, a new lore dump!!! I'm currently recovering from surgery on a broken leg, and I think my lifeline in the coming days will be long form vids like this!
My pet theory about what caused the end of time is ...
Spoilers
Is that they cause "the end of time" by the act of artificial time travel. I think that the writer of the story was reading about Schrodinger's Cat and was inspired by the idea that potentiality can only exist when it is not observed. So like in Schrodinger's thought experiment, the cat can be either alive or dead as long as you don't open the box. When you open the box and observe what's inside, the potentiality of that quantum waveform collapses, and you become entangled in either of those states but NOT both. In other words, you create a single reality in which the cat can only be either dead or alive.
So my pet theory is that artificial time travel is like opening the box. As soon as you pull yourself out of the natural flow of time and open the box and look inside, the quantum waveform collapses, and potentiality is set as you become entangled with it. This causes the cataclysm that the characters call "the end of time".
Whether it actually IS the end of time is irrelevant. It could just be another form of time that for us, as beings who exist linearly in time and who are chronologically bound, cannot comprehend.
So when the characters say that time cannot be changed, they really mean it, because as soon as you artificially time travel, you essentially cause that to happen.
Also, it may not be the end of time objectively for all people. It may only be ONE parallel reality that has been afflicted. If Quantum Break follows the Many Worlds interpretation of time travel, then there are other realities in which the end of time did not occur. This follows in the Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment. For anyone who didn't observe the cat, the waveform is uncollapsed. It only collapses for the observer.
And even so, in a Many Worlds interpretation, the cat still exists in ANOTHER state but in a separate reality. In QB, we only follow the viewpoint of Jack in his reality which has collapsed. So it's also possible that a powerful time shifter could move between parallel realities. Additionally, in Control, when Dylan talks about his various dreams, he is obviously talking about parallel realities. And in one of those "dreams", he meets Mr Door (Martin Hatch) who tells him that parallel reality exist.
So anyway, when the characters say time cannot be changed, they are not lying, but they can only experience time from their perspective, and they "opened the box and observed the cat" when they travelled in time, and therefore potentiality in their reality is collapsed, i.e. events cannot be changed.
It's a really cool theory, but at the same time, there is an actual mention of a "natural" time travel, which Mr Door/Hatch experienced. And seemingly, he also witnessed (and succumbed) to the end of time.
And with Schrodinger's Cat, in the game it is basically presented as a fact - if event was observed, then it's set in stone, at least that's what everyone was trying to make Jack to understand.
So, following this line, it is probably safe to assume that whatever was done in the events in the game is basically irrelevant since Hatch already was at the end of time, so it is already set in stone, and it probably doesn't matter which form of time travel occurred for it to be set.
But, something that actually might contradict what we (and Jack) were told, and contradicts whole "fact" about unchanging time - why would Hatch do anything he does if he's certain that whatever happens, will bring the end of time. Unless it is not set in stone (and basically why game ends with question if Jack still believes that anything can be changed, still leaving this uncertainty), and that's why Hatch tries to actively get his way to actually make end of time happen.
Leading to my theory - it is a fact that time cannot be changed and events that happened cannot "unhappen", BUT it is tied to the observer in a more literal way. Meaning, if every entity that observed the end of time (and maybe those who have chronon disease/powers) would be destroyed in "current" time, it would "uncollapse" that potentiality of quantum waveforms, or whatever, which would mean that future would never happen as there's nothing left which "pins" it. It doesn't tie in that well into the Schrodinger's Cat explanation, since you can't really close the box and make the fate of the cat uncertain again, but in a way that's basically destroying anything that would open the box/keeps the box open, which probably would mean, as I see it, box closing and the content again becoming uncertain for anyone who wasn't a direct observer, as they don't know 100% what's in there, they were only told about it.
Maybe, in some way, more accurate analogy would be particle-wave nature of photons - when they're unobserved, they behave as a wave, leaving pattern of "probabilities", and when they are observed or measured they end up in pattern of behavior as particles. So basically, removing "observers" of the particles would set them back to being waves, bringing back wave pattern behavior, and probabilities with uncertainties.
So for improbable, but potential sequel it would mean finding a way to destroy Hatch "for good", maybe Paul coming back as a shifter and getting rid of him as well, and Jack trying to rescue Beth in some way, but eventually not succeeding in it and learning that to truly close the loop he would need to also take himself out, too (or to make it extra tragic, being forced to take out Beth "for good" as well as she also was at the end of time). And probably also a way to get rid of those gathered chronon particles/time machines cores, and whatever else it can be in.
And I think it also could, to some extent, explain the junctions that happen with Paul (and teased with Jack) - since Paul (and noone from "current" timeline, except maybe Hatch) didn't observe the events between 2016-2021, he doesn't know exact events which would happen, only that end of time will happen, and a rough point when it will be, and it's reflected on his predictions board - it's a "blur" after 2016 as that's what he plans/assumes what happens there, so the box for those events is closed for him specifically, and chronon powers basically can give him a "peek" at what could happen (as they weren't set by anyone or anything yet).
As for the cause of end of time, I think it's something in-between time traveling in general, and an incident similar to what happened in 2016, but set in the future - general time travel sets in stone via Hatch that end of time will happen (which hypothetically could be prevented by example above), but actual end of time is caused by man-made solution - speculating on the end teaser, I would imagine that Hatch could trick Jack into either pursuing rescuing Beth (and sabotaging it, causing 2016 incident all over again), or maybe even building a new device which would specifically make end of time happen (with promise of ability to actually change the past, or some bs like that).
It sort of relies too much on Hatch being an active force, and being probably somewhat of a cliché, but with Paul gone, and Hatches nature being explained to some degree, maybe already too much was given away for me to come up with some more clever motivation (as well as with theory above).
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. Also totally forgot about those experiments with photons and how they change under observation or measurement. And the fact that the whole game hinges on the idea of chronon particles could be a hint to that. Perhaps they are actually chronon waves.
Hey lets go! Glad to sit in for some more lore exposition with the lads.
Always good to hear people talking about Beth. I love her
Also, glad to see you didn't completely ignore Time knife, the greatest piece of writing Remedy has ever put in their games
Can't wait for the Control video, and see how boys react to Darling and Ahti. Kippis
Rock paper scissors is definitely the only way to decide these things
Love the Lore Dump very much. It is extremely fun to listen to, and a good way to learn the story from these games!
p.s. We love Monty accents here
okay after your retelling of ' time is the egg' scene, I checked out the actual cutscene and yeah, Jack is definitely a 'well-meaning total DUMBass'. But also, this feels like a key lesson here, because CONTROL could have easily stepped into the same plotholes and completely unnessesary (or, at least optional) exposition. Jack is a little bit of an idiot, he has a steep learning curve of these extraordinary events happening all around him, and this doesn`t make him more relatable to the player, on the contrary, his exclamations and shock are more of a nuisance. Remedy learned this during work of Quantum Break, and this is exactly why Jesse is complete opposite - she`s a total natural in this alien office buareucracy, and a much better protagonist because of it.
Jack is just...not at all phased that he had just killed a man huh? Time travel - yeah that is WEIRD, Oh No, What is happening to me???? but shooting a person down? Nah, it`s fine it`s time travel, nothing is true, everything is permitted, yada yada.
Huge kudos to Monty for keeping the Lore Dump insteractive as is the story of the game!!! 10/10 preparation, awesome. Rock-paper-scissors had me equally laughing and being horrified
the tonal shifts in here are making hysterically loose it. 'I had to kill some people at work' - 'I dreamed you were a cat', the hell, this is like a bad movie that is so bad it is actually good.
Time and space are intertwined, so displacing some shipping containers seems alright to me.
The Wine and Cheese Crowd segment has the BEST Monty reading voice.
Those Nissan adds are better than actual advertisement. I need a spacious car to cry freely in my life with antiscratch paint.
Jack is truly too dumb to have character development. Repsect to all the actors though, they really did the best they could with the script and dialogue they were given.
It`s kind of sad Quantum Break is this messy, it could have been better for sure, but it still sounds very intruiging and like an okay-ish Remedy game. I still feel like they learned hard, painfully and a lot throught the development of Quantum, and applied all that experience to CONTROL, because CONTROL is a great game and avoided a lot of the missteps Quantum has.
Great Lore Dump as always)
The time machine in 1999 is not at the swimming pool, it's at the "ground zero" workshop. Beth helps get it moved to the swimming pool after she arrives in 1999.
The immediate "so it's Prince of Persia?" reaction to the Time Knife thing got me 😂
I love this podcast, thank you so much to you guys for it, and especially for this episode because as a PlayStation Remedy fan I can't play Quantum Break so I really appreciate this.
I did know all about the Alan Wake references tho (besides the Sudden Stop admittedly), and I believe the connection is not very complicated. I think Alan Wake is simply a game inside of Quantum Break's universe, and while things like Night Springs or the Sudden Stop lean more towards easter egg territory they can still be explained to make sense in universe. It could be possible that the whole thing was a Return attempt, but it'd be way too complicated and wouldn't fit much with Alan's style. I highly recommend Hidden Machine's videos on this topic.
A couple things that you missed that I think could add to the discussion for when you cover the Control AWE dlc and if you guys cover the Alan Wake II trailer:
The AWE graffiti and the AWE in the blackboard ("Alan Wake Experience?"), the remark of the initiation phase in the hero's journey that's also in the black board (which relates to this House of Dreams and the AWII trailer) and the name of Alex Casey 's partner: Saga Anderson (likely related to the Old Gods).
A very fun listen, again thank you for this and I can't wait for the Control episode (and Mr. Door... RIP Lance Reddick), which is going to be a huge undertaking for Monty, so I wish you the best!
Didn’t expect you to mention my favorite anime aka Steins Gate. Excellent.
3:08:55 A time travel story where you can't change anything, everything happens the same way no matter what and you can't stop it is pointless.
Why do I have an overwhelming desire to purchase a Nissan? Lmao Excellent episode! I had a good giggle on this one. Can't wait for the next one! Thank you gents, for the awesome entertainment!
Been buzzing for this one lads - will have a proper watch later, but thank you!
So, dude goes back in time, causes the homeless guy to fall, then assumes time can't be changed.
Feels like a Very small sample size?
And if he can go back, why doesn't he go back there Again, and try a second time, other than "Because if he thought to do that, it would Immediately destroy the narrative because he'd see himself, when he didn't the first time he went back"?
And the board of stuff they tried to prevent, and failed, raises questions.
And Maybe there's answers, but I don't see how you can fuck up "Call up the airport, and say you stuck a bomb on one of the planes." And I don't think the writers could figure out an answer either.
And even if it doesn't stop 9/11, It's gonna alter the timeline. The flight would be delayed, the threat would probably wind up on the news, that's still an altered timeline, so you'd have proof that you Did alter it.
So long as you have a time machine that can get you when you want, it's Really Easy to prove "fate" wrong.
Damn three and a half hours of Quantum Break lore 😮...one of my most favorite games on PC/Xbox. This has to be one of the most beautiful and underrated games of all times and still looks incredible in 2023 for a game that was released years ago...
I know I'm a bit late to this, but Paul ended up in the future via his own time machine core which ended up in the Monarch time machine in the last act of the game. When Will built the original time machine, it wasn't at the swimming pool, but his workshop in Ground Zero. Paul found a time machine with Will's core in it in a cave while being chased by Beth in the future, and they travelled back to 1999 to when Will first turned it on. Paul fled after attacking Will, while Beth stayed to tell Will about the end of time, and told him to move the Time Machine because Paul will come looking. Will moved it to the Pool after that and never went back there, allowing Beth to settle there and await Jack's return.
We know that the End of time is 2021 because Paul meant to go 5 minutes into the future, but the machine malfunctioned and blasted Jack and Paul, and sent him 5 years instead. With time frozen he would obviously pick up on the date by finding newspapers on sale etc while scavenging, same as Beth. In the 5 years following the events of the game and with Jack now working for Monarch, either Will or Jack would end up moving his time machine core to the cave where Paul would find it and where Beth would emerge, and from the looks of what we see of the machine in the future during their fight once he finds the machine, it's the same design as the university one.
Given how open Microsoft have been with their previously exclusive IPs going cross platform now with Sea of Thieves, Grounded and Hi-Fi Rush as well as Bethesda and Activision-Blizzard games continuing to be on other platforms, it's very likely that Remedy have been allowed to use the IP outright rather than buying it, especially after the success of Alan Wake 2 and just how heavily of an advertising push it got on Xbox even though it was an Epic published game. if not, perhaps Epic has made the deal with them for it, especially with the rumours of Xbox opening up to allowing Steam to be accessible on console.
Only time will tell, though it's a similar IP issue to Sunset Overdrive, which Sony now have the rights to after buying Insomniac. Sony cannot produce a remaster of the 1st game for Playstation because Microsoft own the rights to that game. But making a sequel would make no sense to those that didn't play the first game, so Insomniac are stuck making Ratchet & Clank and Spider-Man for the foreseeable future
"hey man, wanna watch this 2 minute video about a funny meme?"
"Nah"
3 hour video talking about a game I'll never play*
"Now _this_ is content"
I’m glad that I’m not the only one.
I got an egg joke. Whats an egg's favorite city?
New Yoke.
So here's my thoughts, I like the idea that Quantum Break is a failed attempt at Alan Wake trying to write himself out of the lake. More specifically that he failed to write a hero who could save him, because Jack is so fucking lame and Jesse is so goddamn cool and her coming to his rescue is much much more interesting, then if it was "guy with time powers for some reason".
It reminds of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 6, the Bohemian Rhapsody fight. The enemy has the power to make fictional character all over the world come alive and they defeat it by making up a new character that has the power to put them all back in their place. Jesse feels like that, someone who you can believe has the capacity to get someone out of an unfathomably powerful supernatural lake. And the reason I love it so much is because this conforms to the rules of the lake, like imagine if Jack "beige" Joyce were to come to the rescue of writer Alan Wake. Why would he do that? How would he do that? I can't imagine a good answer for these questions, but if it's Jesse? I can see it.
“How would you feel if you knew a corporate monopoly was taking a massive dump all over your personal history.”
I think Sam might have had some thoughts about his deal with Microsoft.
I got recommended this via Alan wake, listened to all of kingdom hearts episodes after those few episodes, and am now a fan for life! Can’t wait to hear you to cover Control and looking forward to Alan Wake 2!
The most jarring point in the story is when Burke strangles the would be wife assassin and 20 people stand there watching, including two armed security guards. Nobody tries to stop Burke or runs after him out of the hospital. Just garbage writing, they should at least establish that Monarch people are completely above the law, even in civilian clothes. I don't think that ever was the writing though, they just slapped together a way for the wife to see Burke being a killer.
This comment is brought to you by Nissan.
Keep up the great work, guys. These are a lot of fun to have on in the background of work.
Yessss new Lore Dump. Really hoping you guys can cover Resident Evil 8 and 4 Remake this year.
Your accents are great Monty, cant wait to hear your Joker impression again for Arkham Lore Dump 😁
I now wonder if those are both Hatch's eyes. At least one could be Odin's eye that Hatch/Door took in 1988
I never knew how badly i needed this channel in my life
This video came in at the perfect time! You guys rock!!
Really good episode. Hope the boys get Nissans.
Muse lore episode incoming
i absolutely adore my lore dump boys. i’m going to spend as long as i can listening on my work shift. i’m so glad Neil’s ad reads got left in. i was in the need of a new car and for some reason i think i know the brand i should get.
Make sure you tweet Nissan with a link to the episode if you buy one ;)
I feel like a thing doesn't have to have been particularly good in a way for a lead actor or cast to get really passionate about it. Ashmore seems like a Sci-Fi fan (he'll always pop up as 'Oh! Jake from Animorphs!' to my Millennial Sci-Fi brain, so I can see him being like 'I wanna be in more cool projects put me in coach!' regardless or whether the legality makes sense or not.
Just Shawn Ashmore standing outside cool genre projects asking if they have any available roles. It really is funny that despite having an identical twin, it doesn't sound like there was a scene where they brought Aaron in to play body double and make Jack act against himself. One would think with identical twin actors that would be the first thing you do with a time travel script...
30:00 Scrambled, poached or fried time.
I desperately want you guys to do a lore dump series of the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre games 😭
So I finally finished this video. Yes it took me nearly 5 days to do. I have to stress it’s not because of you guys. In fact your banter together in this one might be my favorite so far. It was the fact that I kept having to restart the video because my brain was being broken by the story. But I have concluded it finally and I have some things to say. This game is clearly flawed, lots of story issues, the whole merging of tv and games not working very well, and a frankly dumb protagonist but I can’t deny that I’ve seen very few games with as much passion and ambition as this game had. You can tell that they were truly trying to revolutionize the industry. The attention to detail between the gameplay and tv episodes, making sure to keep everything consistent shows this. Despite the final product I have nothing but respect for the effort that was put into it and I salute Sam Lake and Remedy.
That being said I do have a question for Monty. When looking up the Remedyverse I found this quote from the Control Wiki
“The Remedy Connected Universe is known to include Alan Wake and Control. It is known to not include the game Quantum Break. The official status of Remedy Entertainment's other games, Death Rally and Max Payne, within this universe is not yet known.”
What does this mean for Quantum Break and does it imply these other games could be part of the Remedyverse?
We go into it when the Control episode releases, but I don’t think Quantum Break is going to be relevant in the future of the Remedyverse, but wanted to show Chase all the silliness because as a game it’s pretty wild.
The thing is the ONLY crossover I thought would come… would be Martin Hatch -because he’s referenced in Control - but now Lance Reddick has passed that’s going to be unlikely