To clarify, the shoebox isn't cloned or duplicated. The FBC found out that ANY shoebox tested could resist alterations to reality. One guy pulled one out of his closet at home and tested it. Zane making this shoebox loophole accoddntly affected literally any shoebox in the world.
I'm seeing a pattern with Zane. Namely his writing leaves Loopholes that have unintended consiquences in them. Like the Shoebox. Frankly I could see the FBC start using them for files and items
A cool little thing about the title, CONTROL... Dylan was taken in by the FBC and groomed for the Director program. Darling mentions that "the girl" also has potential Director potential. So the FBC keeps tabs on her, tracking her movement, behavior et cetera. So essentially... The FBC is doing an experiment. Dylan is the one they're directly working on, and Jesse is the CONTROL group. Y'know, like one would have in an experiment or study. Idk how much this holds water canonically, but I think it's a pretty neat, alternative interpretation of the title lol
I took Darlings singing debut at the end of the game to be a representation of his ascension to a higher plane of thought. The song is the only way he can communicate with her from this place.
So crazy..CRAZY idea, could this be a way of Alan Wake trying to get help or a failed attempt to get out of the Lake? Like the Oldest House is probably a closer hop from the lake then to the Shores of the lake.
My favourite OOP is the one that made me just sit, and listen, for several minutes. It's just the song My Dark Disquiet by Poets of the Fall. And a questionnaire can be found with things like "3) Did a clear image of a weapon appear at your mind during the song? If so, elaborate." And now I have that song on my phone just in case I want to listen to it at any time, 'Cause it's really good.
One extra thing I just found out, in the side mission where Jesse goes into the mirror and fights a mirror version of herself, all the dialogue is reversed. Reversing that dialogue to make them legible, one of the mirror-Jesse's lines is "I'm much Wilder than you".
Great stuff! A couple of small notes: - Don’t think you said it outright, but even though the FBC is housed in a giant concrete building with a big sign on the wall, you don’t see it - you can’t see it - if you don’t know it’s there. That’s why Jesse took so long to find it. It probably is in a directory of government agencies and on Google Maps - but you still can’t see it. (And, by the way, the building is based on the very real and weird building at 33 Thomas St, NYC.) - The first really weird thing with Ahti (besides his whole presence) is that we hear Jesse’s _internal_ monologue giving her impression of Ahti - and Ahti answers her internal monologue out loud. None of the. Make note of it, but Ahti heard what the player heard. You mentioned it later on, but he replies to Jesse’s thoughts from the get-go. - “Dead letters” is technically the name for letters that can’t be delivered or returned to sender. They weren’t necessarily sent to any official agency, FBC or otherwise. Dead letters of course happen in real life, but the ominous term and in the context of the FBC, it gets that delicious paranormal angle. Who was the intended recipient? Who even sent it, if it can’t be returned?
Yeah missing out the fact that the FBC *cannot* be found unless specifically aware of and seeking it is a huge thing to miss out, especially considering their reaction to why it took Jesse so long to find it
I have to say, as a Finn, Ahti's accent is EXTREMELY authentic, especially older folk here speak English in that accent, some of us call it "Ralli Englanti" or "Rally English" due to how so many Finnish rally drivers had very thick accent like that
Ahti's accent is most definitely Finnish, it's something we Finns call "Rally English" (for many of our internationally succesful rally drivers have been known to speak it). It's when your pronunciation is much closer on the spectrum to the way Finnish is pronounced than to the way English is, making the accent so much heavier. Collectively we are (or at least have been) a bit ashamed of it, very much needlessly in my opinion. Remedy is doing gods' work here with Ahti and his accent, since the actor Martti Suosalo actually doesn't as far as I know have even close to this heavy an accent in real life.
Something that didn't get mentioned is that when you're following Ahti to get the cassette player is the one time in the main game you don't exit through the black pyramid door in the Oceanview Motel, but the door marked Janitor at the back of the entry hall.
An important thing about Objects of Power and especially the Service Weapon (you may mention this in a later part Monty so forgive me) is that they've existed for a long time. The Bureau theorises that the Service Weapon was also Excalibur, Mjolnir and Varunastra. I believe there's a note talking about how these objects likely adapt over time as human technology changes. Also my assumptiong with Dylan's line about a writer who wrote about a cop being in another world is that he's actually referencing Sam Lake possibly. Or is talking from Hatch's POV where Alan is in a different dimension to HIM, but not Dylan.
I think it's possible that Jesse got into the Oldest House through the lockdown thanks to the one character we know can ignore absolutely any locked door. Ahti. She's there to be the janitor's assistant after all.
We do learn in the DLC that the Board doesn't control the House directly, they're more sort of "plugged in" to it. The implication is that they both existed independently, but became linked at some point through a threshold, then the FBC came along. Ahti as a personification or protector of the House separate from the Board is implied by one mission in the Foundation, where his related Item also affects the Board Constructs the same as humans and Hiss. I think he's older and more powerful than all of them.
Re: The Former, I think it's stated somewhere that Altered Items specifically aren't connected to the Board or Astral Plane, but OoPs are which is why they can be harnessed by Parautilitarians. The Former was trying to convert AIs into new OoPs, which is why they started acting differently. It was trying to forcibly connect them to whatever version of the Astral Plane it inhabits and clearly wasn't having much success.
Now that I've watched the whole episode, I have some thoughts on the collective unconscious for OOPs powers. You gents wondered about who or what sets the powers, and I think you may have missed some key ideas here based on your generation. For example, the floppy disk carrying "launch" makes perfect sense to someone who lived through Cold War. People weren't necessarily afraid of radiation or bombs; it was the looming fear that a country would launch their nukes. It was very focused on the act of launching and the crippling fear that once launched, there would be little anyone could do to stop it. The fear of launched nukes and the power of launch codes was extreme during this era. The projector is another power that makes perfect sense in historical context. Back in the day, especially in the 1950s through at least the 1970s, before the Internet was really a thing at all, people would take tons of pictures while on holiday, especially out of the country or to exotic locales. It was normal for someone to share their trip with friends and family using a slide projector. It was almost like a home cinema night to do this. Projectors evoked the thought of destinations and interesting, strange or exotic places. People could escape there or relive the trip in a way by viewing the slides. Both objects' powers make perfect sense for the time in which they were the most relevant. Just some interesting ideas from a history major lol. Again, awesome video! I'm eagerly awaiting the next episode from the Remedyverse!
You're very correct about OoP deriving their properties from the collective unconscious. It's why modern technology can't be used in the Oldest House. Modern tech doesn't doesn't have enough of a Jungain archetype attached to it to exist within the Oldest House, yet; so, it either cessis to exist entirely or is destroyed; like the immune system eradicating a foreign body. It's also why the FBC prohibits items that are 'archetypal representations' inside the Oldest House. The list of specific prohibited items is the very first collectible found at the main security desk just off the entrance. It's also explained in one of Darling's presentations that the big difference between an Atered Item and an Object of Power in an OoP's connection to The Board and the Astral Plane.
My favorite crazy theory with ahti and the oldest house is that he is some sort of Norse god and the house is a version of Yggdrasil. Crazy but it’s a fun idea.
It's not that crazy, it's heavily implied if not explicitly stated that Ahti is a senile Old God. And trees factor heavily into symbols in the foundation. With the Oldest House connecting to countless other planes, and the implication it may have at one point appeared as a tree before modern cities were a thing, it has a lot in common with Yggdrasil.
as a DCer, i have this one memory of playing hide and seek as a kid with a few friends in the government building my dad used to work in after it was entirely shut down, just entirely dark. playing control just brought back that experience for me in the most terrifying way.
Something I really want to point out about your first conversation with Ahti that can be really easy to miss but initially tipped me off that something with Ahti was really weird is he responds to something in Jesse's internal monologue. She internally says he's a friendly face in my book. And he responds outloud with "better than having no face at all." That's what really initially tipped me off to his strangeness. One of my favorite things when discussion the OOPs is the fact that they become such when a great amount of specific attention has been attatched to them. The floppy disk was specifically the Soviet nuclear launch codes and learning launch. The safe gives you a sheild as a safes job is to protect. The hotline to the board just appeared in the directors office but it looks like the emergency phones that go straight to the president in older American movies. I just love the care they took in setting up the rules of these altered items in a way that is really cool to think about. Monty I want you to know that I absolutely burst into giggles the moment you said well I ship these two because absolutely same. I think they are adorable constantly when they're around each other. What darling says in his presentation about altered items is that they are not quite sentient. It's almost more like they are programmed to cause one thing happen over and over. They are results of AWEs but it is uncertain about how they specifically come about. Objects of power can either be the causes of AWEs or the result. I'm not quite sure if I'd classify the typewriter in Alan wake as an OOP but I definitely agree on the poltergeist objects in Alan Wake being altered items. I'm also going to correct you on something very very minor from the beginning of the episode they're at least were other custodians I just think ahti is the only one left it's own entirely know if hes entirely human sooo. But in a collectible called hotline security log it lists a Bill Everett and a Carol Bishop as custodians. The control points are not places the bureau forces the house to shift but places that the bureau has identified as being vital junctions within the oldest house that they can use to stabilize those sections of the oldests house. As for the Black pyramid in central executive my personal theory on that is that it is connected to the nail in some fashion and that is part of what makes that specific area a control point. Now dont trash poor Langston. The mans just a big goober. He does really like his job and takes it very serious. If you just listen to him he'll start talking about now the Trench is gone bringing back up his proposal about rituals and unusual behaviors to keep altered items calm because Trench didn't take that seriously. I think there's a collectible around that as well. As far as I understand Hedron and Polaris are one in the same. I believe Hedron as the big thing planted Polaris in both Dylan and Jessie and because it is a ressanonce it does not need to be in one place it can exist in many places once.
I’m 40 seconds in and it’s already gold. I’m just imagining you hitting a button on a laptop, playing this audio and Chase just having this confused look on his face.
A point of clarification: talking with Emily about Trench- she mentions that its possible that the way you can talk to him is that he was killed by the service weapon. A bullet from The Weapon is *in* his head, and its echoing with his thoughts and memories. That is what the phone picks up- the memories and considerations of a Dying Man. The connections to Darling, however. Is said to be because of his and Jesse's connections with *polaris* [IE: Hadron] prompting resonance/communication.
How does this account for Marshall and Alan Wake though? They both communicate through the hotline but aren't connected to Polaris/Hedron nor do they have a service weapon bullet lodged in their brain
Dylan : In fact, I am having a dream right now. In this dream, I am standing in a corner, watching Jesse and Dylan talk about this very dream. "This very dream", he said just now. And repeated it again now. I'm standing there and watching, and that's all I can do..." Said while the player watches from the Corner camera angle.
When I got to Hedron, it was very confusing and I got the sense that Jesse was also very confused. You open up the protective shell which Darling put around it and there isn't anything in there. Jesse mentions it being gone or dead and being too late and gets taken over. Darling mentions something about it not being the source, but a catalyst and something about it not being there anymore (paraphrasing as its been a while since I've played). All and all I got the sense that it somehow wasn't there in the first place and that it had something to do with Darling. I could be so wrong as it was just a very big "huh?/what?" moment for me, but I'm unsure that the Hiss actually did anything and might have gotten tricked along with Jesse and Polaris.
I have a different experience with control than most I think. I didnt know about SCPs and Remedeyverse when I played it. The world felt like something that existed but I didnt know. The way everyone reacted felt so different than other fiction universes where there is no real point of view person. Everyone knows more than me and it was interesting exploring the world. It almost felt like this could be real and Im the only one whos just finding out. Jesse reads to me like someone whos seen so much weird at such a young age that none of this is surprising. For example Im brought up on my culture ( Hindu) so the temples, idols and worship seems normal to me. But if someone who knows nothing of this, nothing of the concept of god or worship suddenly finds my world. They would find everything to not make sense but everyone in that world is so used to it that they dont react at all. Also kind of crazy that knowing nothing of Remedyverse still gave me a satisfying experience with a lot of intrigue while providing another seperate layer to those who know. PS: The way board spoke was so cool. It freaked me out cuz I never saw something like that. Cant wait for control 2.
23:35 not exactly. It's items that have a special meaning or symbolism in the human psyche. The carousel horse isn't the way it is because it was part of a horror story or an AWE necessarily. It's because for children, it represents flying/dashing around. Similarly (as another comment points out), the floppy disk holds the power it does because it symbolized the ability/action of launching nuclear missiles into space/at enemies. The supernatural doesn't concentrate in an object unless that object holds a meaning to many people. Think Elias Canetti's crowd symbols.
Hey... so there is a picture in the Prime Candidate Program showing jesse in a diner talking to someone wearing a beanie. From behind it looks kind of like Beth from the 2010 point in time 🤔🧐
Control is my first Remedyverse game!! I only finished it a few days ago and it was such a bittersweet ending - on the one hand I was so sad it was over, but on the other hand I finally get to consume Monty’s critique and these lore dumps (which came at the perfect time!!) I’ve been making my way through all the lore dumps and critiques - longform videos make brain go brr - but I was saving Control until I’d finished playing, and the first 5 minutes of the Alan Wake critique convinced me to buy the game and go in as blind as I possibly can. I HAVE watched the Quantum Break critique and lore dump, just because I wasn’t as interested in playing it and I hadn’t realised they were all Remedy games when I started, so my knowledge of the Remedyverse is definitely incomplete and has all been acquired during the past fortnight lmao I will say that the wall behind my desk has now turned into a conspiracy board full of sticky notes of important quotes and references that is for SURE going to grow when I start Alan Wake. A lot of the connections to Alan Wake in Control went unnoticed by me, short of the ones that specifically mention Alan Wake by name, though my understanding of those were still super limited. Even now what I know about AW is limited to: he’s a writer, there’s a darkness, the doctor is bad, there’s a lake, metaphor for writers block made literal? Control has definitely provided me with a lens to view Alan Wake through; going into it in this order means that I’m kind of viewing Alan Wake as a playable AWE, I guess? I’ll be looking out for the things that are mentioned in documents in Control, but it’ll be interesting now with Control as my baseline - it’s easier for Control to reference BACK to a game released in 2010, but I’m wondering how AW might ‘foreshadow’ things in Control or at least inform/give meaning to my understanding of it. The lens of the FBC provides a very distanced, objective view of the events of AW, so it’ll be cool to see what the lived experience of it - especially considering you don’t get any gameplay of the Ordinary AWE and everyone in the Oldest House (even Jesse, but I have WAY too many thoughts about this and putting them in this comment would double its length) seems to normalise the paranatural, it’ll be cool to experience an AWE in the ‘real’ world. I know/think the tone of Alan Wake is a lot darker than Control though which is exciting, I love horror games so I’m excited to see a Remedy game with more of a tense atmosphere. (also Jesse and Emily are so girlfriends, how did I miss this?!?!)
The Ocean View Motel has a name that's very similar to the Desert Shore Motel in American Nightmare. Remedy have said that the game is canon, and really, the nature of Alan Wake means that pretty much everything can be canon. But anyway, it made me wonder whether there were other hotels and motels ... that were linked. So yes, you can go anywhere through the Ocean view hotel, such as other parts of the oldest house and other dimensions , but ALSO other linked hotels and motels. It definitely captures the whole small town Americana feel that these games are going for too.
One small thing you guys forgot is that there's a record by the old gods of Asgard to be found in the ordinary landfill and Jessie mentions how her dad used to love that band, it's small but it's something
I find it interesting that Alan Wake's Body and Voice are the two biggest guides in Jessie's journey into her role as the director. The body being there physically and not communicating directly while the voice only ever appearing through taping and a spirit phone.... Could Darling leaving be the breadcrumbs Alan leaves behind to save himself? Great episode as always. Listening to the last two episodes back to back I feel like Control succeeded in engaging and getting my brain flow going in all the ways Quantum Break fails. P.s. that cameo at the start was great as a fellow Basement fan.
I think its funny how this game is about scp type artifacts and theres a tv show called warehouse 13 which is a series about a secret organisation collecting scp type artifacts...who happens to have the main character from quantum break as a main character in the later series of the show.
The town of Watery where arti goes on holiday is just down river from bright falls, it’s on the map of the area surrounding bright falls on the Wellcome to bright falls flyer
When I heard you say the name “Richard Bowker” out loud I immediately thought of “Richard Bachman,” which is a pen name of Stephen King. I can totally see Alan writing this letter and using a pen name for anonymity and choosing one similar to another famous writer.
There were a few details that you missed, like that throughout the game you need to do these weird and tedious password puzzles and that in the room you enter after ash tree lane is first the vid of dr Darling, then you find that the room is LITTERED with potential password diagrams and the shot in framed in such a way that when the shutters open and Jessy is like "I am finally going to meet you?", the shutters open to reveal the shape of a massive polyhedron and it inmediately becomes clear that the passwords of dr Darling are ALSO based on Hedron. That was a pivatol "Get Fucked" moment for me. My first one was when traveling towards the Foundation, you leave the Ocean View motel through the Janitor room. THAT was the moment I started getting afraid. And that when you meet Ati in the Foundation, you can see the cabin at the lake, bleeding, shimmering into reality in the same way as that the slide projector creates a gate way. First you see the red sand, then a shimmer and then you enter the desert. Finally, I want to talk a bit about Ash Tree maze. In the video "Control, Anatomy, and the Legacy of the Haunted House" by Jacob Geller, Jacob makes the connection between The House of House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski and the game control. In the top comments of Jacob's vid basically confirmed that the creators of Control were influenced by House of Leaves and different video essay's on the internet taught me that Control is basically a love letter towards New Weird fiction. House of Leaves is fucking awesome. It does a lot of funky things with the layout, story telling and if you would ask 10 people "What is House of Leaves about" then you will get 10 completely different answers. To explain just how good the writing of Ash Tree Maze is, I will share my opinion on what I believe that House of Leaves is about and why I really like Jessy as a protagenis. Spoilers for the book! The book reads a bit like "Letters to Dracula" and accepting that the book is basically about 2 characters, Zampanò who wrote the main body of text and Johnny Truant who responds. In the short story, the mother of Johnny writes letters to Johnny years before the book even starts. Zampanò, a blind man, writes about a documentary about The House on Ashtree Lane which was made by Navidson.The problem with the House starts when The House gains 1/4" on the inside and thus, the inside becomes bigger than the outside. Navidson NEEDS an answer and in the documentary, he investigates. Zampanò describes the actions of Navidson, tries to pin down and explain why he does what he does. And Johnny responds to the texts written by Zampanò in footnotes. The footnotes become pages long and it starts fucking with the reader. Neither Zampanò nor Johnny Truant are reliable narriators. Zampanò is blind which is really interesting when describing the visuals of a DOCUMENTRY and Johnny has... a severe mental breakdown in the opening pages of the book. My belief is that Johnny Truant wrote the entire record, frabricated the entire thing from left to right in order to cope with the loss of his father and the sexual abuse of his mother, which she wrote about in the letters she send him as a child and committed suicide afterwards. The House, which deepens, twists, turns and either destroys the inhabitants or they move out of their own accord. To me, this resprents the devestating effects of complex PTSD. Either it consumes you or you heal from it. Navidson manages to get out of The House with a new collection of mental scars. But Jessy? Man. She fucking crushes it. She takes ownership over her situation, steps up and takes control. The Maze shifts to where she needs to go. Where the House obscures, the Maze reveals. Where Navidson was confused, afraid, cold and powerless, Jessy shines bright and becomes empowered throughout the section. In that liminal space she went from "I should take control" towards "I control" and it is so incredibly effective how the scene handles itself. The doors opening up, the walls breaking away, it is exactly the opposite of what House of Leaves does and as woman with C-PTSD, I found the confidence that Jessy radiates by the end of the story to be liberating and inspiring. I love love love House of Leaves and I cant recomment it enough. But good god, Ash Tray maze was the best setpiece I have ever played. Fantastic. 10/10
He man I just discoverd your channel and you are really a good story teller! I played have beat this game maybe 10 times already and I wantend to clearify the Hiss and Polaris/Hedron resonance. 1:?They are both a vibration/wave or kind of energy with a natural frequency. The Hiss have a agressive/invasive frequency. The hiss forces people to its frequency and totally dominate those people. Polaris/hedron is harmonious and softer. Polaris adjust her frequency to the person so they can resonate. When frequencies are 180 degrees polar opposite they cancel each other out. Polaris/Hedron ensured the Hiss couldnt spread futher in to the oldest house. 2: Polaris and Hedron are basically the same. They are the same resonance but Hedron was a amplifier for the polaris resonance not its source.
Oh boys. Gents. I- I’m so excited for you lot. Genuinely thrilled. That Mother’s Basement cameo made me scream in excitement. Get ready for the flood of new viewers and subscribers from if/whenever Jeff mentions this off-hand on MB! Lol In all seriousness, I really needed this today. Your lovely banter on this fascinating game is exactly what I needed to get me through the hellish depths of spring allergy season XD Edit: GOD this game made me FASCINATED with brutalist architecture. It’s one of the few examples of it that I genuinely, truly love. Gaaaah such a cool connection to art history I love Remedy so much for this. It has such sinister implications beyond what they even imply through the rest of Control’s subtext.
People always think Jesse is weird for no reason, but I believe that there's an audio tape in one of the levels before going to the Ordinary Town Model and it's her basically talking to a psychiatrist. I assume the events made her borderline insane. That's why she's so weird and eccentric. The traumatic experience pretty much made her mentally ill
Regarding the typewritten page, I suspect the redacted word that Monty drew a blank on was 'spoken'. It's the only thing I can think of that makes thematic sense and fits the space font-size given.
I don't think Northmoor had the parautilitarian ability to generate heat/energy. I think Northmoor was just so obsessed with gaining power that he ended up linking with more OOPs than his body can handle and the heat/energy that he generates is a side effect of that. Which is also why he can't control it.
FYI: The "hexagons" Darling is obsessed with are likely 2D projections of 4-dimensional cubes a.k.a. tesseracts a.k.a. hyper cubes, aligning neatly with the overall theme. These are usually depicted as one 3D cube "suspended" within another one where the corners are connected; if you use an isometric perspective projection and align the whole thing just right at 60 degrees you get Darling's hexagons
I just want to note a cool thing about Sankarin Tango: when the song gets to the part that references Quantum Break the melody shifts to incorporate the Quantum Break theme into it.
I always assumed that Ahti is on the same level(as in what they are and power scaling) as the board but is a separate entity that just decides to be the janitor for the oldest house.Though I am not an expert so might be wrong on that one
RE Ahti on his vacation, I'm assuming the faint suggestion of forests is because he's having a sauna by a spectral lake somewhere, ... even though it's at the bottom of the oldest house! But, correct me if I'm wrong: there is a more explicit reference to trees down there, right? Isn't there a large drawing of a tree down there? It's been a while. Anyway, it made me think about the World Tree, Yggdrasil od Norse myth, especially considering that his "friends" might be "Thor" and "Odin". ;) He might even be on vacation with them! Hah.
3:07:23 Okay. Seems like the wrong information you guys had back in episode one that I pointed out has been resolved. Alice WAS in the lake, there was no time f**kery. Alans story worked as it should, he followed the rules unlike Zane and made a sacrifice to get Alice out. Cool. xD
You’re in for a fun ride with the rest of these lore dumps I think each episode has at least one “uh so I was totally wrong when I said X in American Nightmare SORRY” 😂
To give Monty some credit. I've heard much worse Finnish accent's, I like it a lot. Fart in a Sahara and Dog buried are all Finnish sayings. Not sure if that's addressed as I am in the middle of listening. - Your residential Finnish watcher
Loved this as always, even if I've played the game a couple of times it was super enjoyable to hear different perspectives and reactions. Also lots of details new to me, there is so much to learn about this game. Here are some things I wanted to add that I've written in a separate note as I listened along: Chase will like this: there is a very loose and speculative potential Beth Wilder easter egg in the Prime Candidate Program. In one of the photographs Jesse can be seen talking to someone wearing a beanie (like Beth did), again it's very loose but still. Slightly off topic but in Alan Wake, during the first encounter with Zane in the nightmare he reads one of his poems: "For he did not know That beyond the lake He called home Lies a deeper, darker Ocean green Where waves are *Both wilder* And more *serene* To its ports I've been To its ports I've been" There was another previous mention of Ordinary: In the Old Gods of Asgard song from American Nightmare, if you reverse the audio at a certain point you can hear "it will happen again, in another town, a town called Ordinary". About Altered Items and OOPs, I think a better comparison to Alan Wake would be the poltergeist and the thermoses as Altered Items like you said, but a better example of an OOP would be the clicker. As someone who played Control before Alan Wake and went in knowing about the influence that the collective unconscious and important events have on OOPs, as soon as Alan Said that the clicker took mythical proportions in his mind because it was from his absent father I immediately thought it might be an OOP. I'm not sure if the typewriter is as good of a comparison because I think it's the Dark Place that causes what it's written to come true, so the typewriter itself is not necessarily an OOP because then all the other artists in the lodge would have OOPs and that would be a disaster. Monty's Topher voice is peak. About the doors: there is a very prominent asset in Alan Wake reused in a lot of parts in the game. It's a book with a big spiral in the cover, titled The Withinside. And if you look in the game files, all the door symbols have names: Pyramid white, Pyramid black, Alan Wake (spiral), Control 2 (magnifying glass), Doors (rectangles) and Vanguard (circles). Another repeat actor: James McCaffrey now plays Trench, but he previously voiced Max Payne, Thomas Zane in Alan Wake, and Alex Casey the Return trailer in Quantum Break and in the little snippets of the Sudden Stop in Alan Wake. Just a small thing: I don't think Ahti's postcard appears until he goes on vacation, and Watery is a neighbor town of Bright Falls, potentially from where the Wakes came in the ferris. More on OOPs and the Board: I'm pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned that all OOPs have a connection to the Astral Plane and the Board, but I'm not sure if AWEs have to be necessarily linked to OOPs (it's just that it's typically the case because OOPs cause many AWEs). The collective unconscious does also have an effect, that's why all the OOPs are these sort of 'signature items', why these types of collectively known items are not allowed inside the bureu, and why I theorize modern technology doesn't work either. A lot of the ideas are messy to understand and I see Chase especially confusing some of them, so I think Monty could show the others Darling's presentations about these general concepts like OOPs, Altered Items, AWEs, Places of Power, the Astral Plane, etc. They're very short and sweet, and should clear some things up. Something else about William Kirklund and Frank Breaker: in a comic that came out all the way back when Alan Wake released, we saw Frank Breaker contact Kirklund, and in the remaster a letter from Kirklund addressed to Frank was added in Sarah's office. Also, in the Return trailer from Quantum Break, Kirklund is one of the names in Casey and Anderson's investigation board. And finally more on Tom as a filmmaker: The poster in the remaster still says Tom the Poet, but it now goes more in depth into it being a movie poster, saying that it's a film by Thomas Zane in which he plays the Diver, and the events of the movie are based on Alan's writing, with more characters form the game as cast members. What I think could've happened is that at some point after Alan Wake but before Control, Tom was changed to be a filmmaker in one of Alan's Return attempts, because back in Alan Wake Barry could't find much, but he still said Tom was a poet, and Jesse with Polaris and being a para-utilitarian can percieve reality shifts or perhaps she also found another shoebox. The only thing I can't make sense of is how does Alan have this poster in his nightmare before learning of Zane. Perhaps this idea was implanted by the Dark Presence early during Alan Wake, and the Dark Presence being involved could also explain the weird Zane in AWE. Anyways these are just some thoughts and I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing as I can only imagine what it takes to put together an episode of this podcast, which was again a fantastic listen and I can't wait for the next one!
I'm genuinely upset that I've been missing these episodes, I'm on TH-cam every day, all day and I've somehow missed them. guess I have a ton to catch up on.
I don't recall hearing you say this so if you didn't, you forgot that there are times ahti is speaking but not there and seemingly responds to Jesse's thoughts like he can hear them.
I don’t know if somebody already pointed this out. But the reason Jessie took so long to find the Oldest House is because it hides itself, you basically can only find it if you’re actively looking for it (meaning the Oldest House, not just the FBC) or already knows where it is. The Oldest House is inspired on the 33 Thomas Street building in New York, a giant concrete monolith without any windows that absolutely nobody notices unless somebody points it out. It’s really freaky Also, when we se that board with photos of Jessie there’s P7 written somewhere (don’t remember exactly), leading me to believe that Jessie was also groomed to be director. Like her and Dylan were two methods they were testing
God, before I listen to all of this and talk specific points I just wanna gush why I love this game and its story. On a conceptual level literally every single thing it does is just infinitely cool, it truly manages to tap into the infinite potential of the SCP concept and bring it to life beautifully. And really "infinity" and "unkown" are the keywords here, the biggest success of the worldbuilding is suggesting an infinitely vast and strange world, but also making the snipets of this vastness we actually see really cool and intriguing. And the main characters being the bulwark against the infinite chaotic strangeness is just pure urban fantasy goodness. Even if the execution doesn't always live up to the concept it's close enough that it doesn't take too much away from it.
It's been great following these as a silent participant. I've literally no friends to talk about this remedy verse with so it's been great hearing other opinions from people as into the series as myself, bravo gentlemen
I can't quote you an exact scene or anything, but IIRC Darling *is* a parautilitarian, just a really weak one. I recall him mentioning that he could use some OOP (I think the floppy disk) but could barely throw a pencil across the room.
It's implied all people have some latent parautilitarian abilities as FBC personal are able to recite the invocations and formulas Dr. Ash created to identify and passify altered items; but, only a few are very strong and able to bind O.o.P.s or display outward 'paranatural' abilities; like remote viewing. It's what they appear to be testing Dylan on in the 'therapy' clip. If he can decern info outside his immediate knowledge. One of the things they didn't touch on is that Alan Wake was a Prime Candidate (P4) before he disappeared in Brightfalls. Jesse finds a memo and closed files on Wake in the Prime Candidate Program offices. Alan had been identified as having paranatural abilities (probably around his writing) by the FBC before he went to Brightfalls, which is a major Easter egg.
Just want to toss in that Ahti essentially threatens the Board. When he talks to you at the beginning of the game about going to the interview. He says something along the lines of, "If they don't hire you, I'm going to take them behind the shed and beat their ass" (obviously paraphrasing). Also, I resonate with the opinions/personality of Neil. I am designating him as my spirit animal until further notice. Had the Magnus Archives saved to check out sometime. That timeframe is moving forward.
there was a theory when control first came out that Ahti has been there the longest before the FBC that hes the Oldest House personifed not the board or an extension of the Oldest House. kinda like the Board is just using the Oldest House as a base and Ahti has the authority to kick them out if they go against the Oldest House's wishes. Also he calls Jesse his assistant when she become director like he's actually the one in charge not the Board or the director. Oh and Ahti can hear and respond to her inner thoughts to Polaris.
The giant thing that I'm really surprised gets skipped (and not talked about in the first 100 comments either?) is how that critical property of the Oldest House- to never get noticed- is being *leveraged* by the FBC. Because the FBC is based in the oldest house, THEY never get noticed either. The agency's activities don't get noticed, and a memo explicitly establishes that *their line-item in the federal budget* also doesn't get noticed, meaning they get to *make their budget whatever they want*. Having to keep all technology within your HQ dated to the moment you discovered the building (in the 60s) is a small price to pay by comparison.
I know that Monty's been beaten over the head with this already, and he even mentions it, but considering he brings up the counter-argument rather... flippantly? He doesn't really explain it great for the others either, so I just have to reiterate what was said. Maybe his position will change just a tad bit now that there's a reference to Jesse taking a trip to Bright Falls prior to finding the oldest house, knowing how far she's gone to find the FBC. -Jesse went through some of the more fucked up supernatural shit as a child -Jesse has an alien being living in her head that (for lack of a better way to put it) has REALLY good vibes. -Jesse has entirely embraced the supernatural pretty much after being told by everyone that she's just a loon -honestly, probably the biggest sticking part is what I have to say twice: Polaris is in her head. And considering the nature of the Board is kinda weird, and the powers at play in general, there's pretty much every reason to believe jesse is NOT supposed to be an empty vessel for us, and isn't supposed to act like a normal person. At all. ZERO reasons. She has lived the LEAST normal life of anyone, including most of the people in the FBC. the ONLY person who probably would vibe with her are Dylan, Darling (post-hop) and maybe Alan post-bright falls incident of 2010? Bonus Meme: Thresholds were missed I think?
I just don’t agree that Jesse couldn’t at least be interested or curious in what’s going on. She’s getting answers she’s searched for her whole life and it’s written like it’s water off a duck’s back for the sake of “New Weird” storytelling!
@@MontyZander For the record, I hate the new weird marketing term as well. Its a pile of nothing. That being said: I think Jesse is those things, but there are a multitude of factors that affect how she conveys that. Numbness, Trauma's, and ESPECIALLY polaris, something that I think Control 2 has to answer for. Polaris, I think, acts as MORE than just a shield against the Hiss. It's like carrying a magic homeopathy crystal in your head, but its on cosmic steroids and is *real*. I have a hard time believing that there aren't any side effects in regards to her ability to process and communicate-whether its a conscious effort on Polaris' part or a result of hosting herself inside Jesse. I do hope they show a point in which Jesse does crack.
I have to drop one of my theories here: In that 'house of dreams' blog Samantha had bought the house in Ordinary to renovate it or something right? My theory is that the house was Jesse's house when she was a kid. If she also found the old shoebox and the poems inside in the attic, that could explain why she remembers Thomas Zane the _poet,_ instead of the filmmaker, or y'know even knows about Zane to begin with still doesn't explain how and why the shoebox ended up in Ordinary tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've had the exact same theory for some time. In the recreation of the Ordinary AWE found in the Containment sector, one of the houses is red. I think that's likely the Faden house, the same house the blogger Samantha bought. The shoebox, I believe, was found in a closet. Perhaps Jesse's bedroom closet? We know that shoeboxes work as sort of reality strong boxes. Jesse remembers Zane as a poet even after reality has been altered (by Alan Wake?) She even quotes his work; the same poem Alan hears from the Diver Zane. It's likely that Jesse's parautilitarian abilities, along with Polaris, protect her from reality alterations.
@@melissaharris3389No, I think it's because of the shoebox itself. When Zane wrote that a shoebox and all its contents are immune to reality bending, he did not specify which shoebox. As result, he created a loophole where any shoebox may have the same contents and immunity to reality bending.
I literally just finished the main campaign and am happy to hear your rendition. Control is my first foray into Remedyverse and I'm just blown away by their insane attention to detail. ❤️ I recently got into SCP stories and found Control searching for SCP-inspired video games and it happened to be the Steam Summer Sale so happy coincidences. Threshold Kids will haunt my nightmares forever and I love it. Also I love Dr. Darling's PSA videos. He's a hoot
This podcast is my only experience with the Remedyverse (although I did buy Control on Steam when it went on sale a while back based purely on Monty's recommendation) but when you mentioned a ships anchor that keeps speeding up time around it, you know what I immediately thought of? "Hey, this isn't a debate! I just watched a ship fast forward through a fucking bridge!"
1:13:32 American Nightmare, Number One Fan, North Star and Time Breaker on the other hand were Night Springs episodes written by Alan in the Dark Place so he could try to get out.
My Immediate thought when I played Control was that there was going to be some 4th wall break moment, where Polaris is The Player. (Probably not Just because I fuckin' love Bravely Default. But that may have had a hand in it.) That, or I expected a time where we'd get a character shift to someone else who talks to Polaris, and thus suggesting we were always playing as Polaris, rather than as Jesse. It's just the way she was so clearly talking to the player, and then "Oh, that monologue wasn't breaking the fourth wall, that's me talking to the entity inside my head!" made me connect the two.
after watching all of the kingdom hearts videos in a row, im glad to come back to the saner remedyverse. thank you all for the great videos on games ill never play lol
I've never played any of the Remedy games, Monty is doing such a good job of making this digestible. Plus, more Lore Dump is always a good thing, keep going boys!
Also about the end and Jesse accepting her role as director, I disagree. The story is a classic character accepting who they are and finding the truth ans embracing their potency and power and taking control so yeah now she's elbrassinf being a director now that she knows the truth. Also please look at my other comment and find the video on YT to have more clues about Darling's end.
2:09:37 reading these translated lyrics after playing Alan Wake 2 made the hairs on my neck stand up! I love Remedy and their attention to detail! Amazing show guys, I’ve been binging all the remedyverse videos on this and Monty’s channel over the past few days. You’re awesome!
I noticed the exact same thing, remedy the madlads they are already referenced the loop/spiral and the bullet of light to end it in control, which is so crazy!
Everyone says that launch is the best ability, but I don't know what they're talking about... Is it a hefty, and satisfying, feeling ability? Sure. But so is shooting a grenade launcher, and launch isn't substantially different from that. I actually got extremely bored with the launch ability, and never really used it. I mostly used the mind control power, but I once did a play-through where I shield dashed through everyone.
Theory for darling: this may be beyond silly, and I haven't thought this through, but what if darling turned into The Former? Consider if the board is the "retired" old directors crossing into another dimension upon "death", since we only can contact trench and the board there may be a deeper connection. The relationship between trench and darling seems similar to the board and the former. I know the board existed before the FBC but that could be them from the future in some timey whimey way or it could be others who were bound to the place from pre fbc time and just weren't called directors yet. Or if we include the other remedy- verse characters, it could be made up of all the well-intentioned characters after they fell out of their respective universe who ultimately did bad things explaining the formers separation. These characters could include Thomas Zane, Paul serene and the directors of the fbc, and trench is just "on his way" to be becoming part of the board. Going further, it could be that darling became part of "the former" through resonance, like hedron, and the being we fight is just what can be perceived by a human in the Astral plane (like an avatar or spirit animal) or is what we naturally exist as but darling (and all of us) in human form has always looked like that, but looks human in this dimension or perceived reality. Probably a crazy theory, but it was a random thought while listening to Montys' theory about darling.
Given the SCP Foundation's influence on the game, I wouldn't be surprised if the thermos detail is itself a nod to how silly some details of TSCPF's entries can be
Whoa, Mother's Basement made a cameo on Lore Dump?! That's a big deal for Mother's Basement, I'm sure! Sidenote is that I was trying to beat Control before this video got out but expected this at the start of the month, so how dare you all be efficient do a nicety by releasing a video early I guess lol. Still, looking forward to this after I finish up the game myself!
Decided to play along with the release of each Remedy-verse lore dump episode Managed to complete Alan Wake and Quantum break before watching their corresponding episodes, but I couldn't help but come here having just finished Control, but not the DLCs yet Always buzzing for Lore Dump, excited for whatever series is next!
39:40 Might've helped to explain how OOPs are created at this point to differentiate the 2. In case it isn't by the end of this 3.5 hour video OOPs are created through public perception of an item, where Altered Items were just at the site of an AWE. Edit: removed a large misunderstanding about what abilities what types of items can have.
TWO LEFT TO GO!
The next Remedyverse episode will be live on June 1st! - Monty
Wait two more? I thought there's only the control DLC to cover
@@Lsd1021 There are two DLCs if I remember correctly, one about Mr. Wake, and one on the basement of the oldest house
Good lord maybe if I just read the comments instead of adding one I would have seen this😂 thanks
@@Lsd1021au😅😅😅😅aaaa😅😅😅😅😅😮😅😅😅😮😅a😅😅😮😅aaaaa😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅aaa😅😅a😅😅aaaaaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaa😮😮w😮😮😮😮I don’t want 😮😮😮😮😮😮😅😮😮
Wet
To clarify, the shoebox isn't cloned or duplicated. The FBC found out that ANY shoebox tested could resist alterations to reality. One guy pulled one out of his closet at home and tested it. Zane making this shoebox loophole accoddntly affected literally any shoebox in the world.
I'm seeing a pattern with Zane. Namely his writing leaves Loopholes that have unintended consiquences in them. Like the Shoebox. Frankly I could see the FBC start using them for files and items
The more information we get about Zane, the more I’m convinced we’re never going to understand what he really is/was/did.
A cool little thing about the title, CONTROL...
Dylan was taken in by the FBC and groomed for the Director program. Darling mentions that "the girl" also has potential Director potential. So the FBC keeps tabs on her, tracking her movement, behavior et cetera.
So essentially... The FBC is doing an experiment. Dylan is the one they're directly working on, and Jesse is the CONTROL group. Y'know, like one would have in an experiment or study.
Idk how much this holds water canonically, but I think it's a pretty neat, alternative interpretation of the title lol
I took Darlings singing debut at the end of the game to be a representation of his ascension to a higher plane of thought. The song is the only way he can communicate with her from this place.
It is a very Darling thing making his own music video, now that he has ascended he has a decent budget, better than his tv show
So crazy..CRAZY idea, could this be a way of Alan Wake trying to get help or a failed attempt to get out of the Lake? Like the Oldest House is probably a closer hop from the lake then to the Shores of the lake.
I mean, in a certain way a music video is art, so if he's tapped into the dark presence he kinda manifested the end of Control to unravel that way.
My favourite OOP is the one that made me just sit, and listen, for several minutes.
It's just the song My Dark Disquiet by Poets of the Fall.
And a questionnaire can be found with things like "3) Did a clear image of a weapon appear at your mind during the song? If so, elaborate."
And now I have that song on my phone just in case I want to listen to it at any time, 'Cause it's really good.
Where is it and what is it called?
One extra thing I just found out, in the side mission where Jesse goes into the mirror and fights a mirror version of herself, all the dialogue is reversed. Reversing that dialogue to make them legible, one of the mirror-Jesse's lines is "I'm much Wilder than you".
esseJ
Exactly. Beth Wilder
Great stuff!
A couple of small notes:
- Don’t think you said it outright, but even though the FBC is housed in a giant concrete building with a big sign on the wall, you don’t see it - you can’t see it - if you don’t know it’s there. That’s why Jesse took so long to find it. It probably is in a directory of government agencies and on Google Maps - but you still can’t see it. (And, by the way, the building is based on the very real and weird building at 33 Thomas St, NYC.)
- The first really weird thing with Ahti (besides his whole presence) is that we hear Jesse’s _internal_ monologue giving her impression of Ahti - and Ahti answers her internal monologue out loud. None of the. Make note of it, but Ahti heard what the player heard. You mentioned it later on, but he replies to Jesse’s thoughts from the get-go.
- “Dead letters” is technically the name for letters that can’t be delivered or returned to sender. They weren’t necessarily sent to any official agency, FBC or otherwise. Dead letters of course happen in real life, but the ominous term and in the context of the FBC, it gets that delicious paranormal angle. Who was the intended recipient? Who even sent it, if it can’t be returned?
Yeah missing out the fact that the FBC *cannot* be found unless specifically aware of and seeking it is a huge thing to miss out, especially considering their reaction to why it took Jesse so long to find it
I have to say, as a Finn, Ahti's accent is EXTREMELY authentic, especially older folk here speak English in that accent, some of us call it "Ralli Englanti" or "Rally English" due to how so many Finnish rally drivers had very thick accent like that
I mean, Remedy is based in Finland. Most of the staff are Finnish
His actor is finnish! 100% His name is Martti Suosalo just look him up!
Death Rally English
I am American and spent a year in Tapiola. It is as authentic an accent as it gets.
Ahti's accent is most definitely Finnish, it's something we Finns call "Rally English" (for many of our internationally succesful rally drivers have been known to speak it). It's when your pronunciation is much closer on the spectrum to the way Finnish is pronounced than to the way English is, making the accent so much heavier. Collectively we are (or at least have been) a bit ashamed of it, very much needlessly in my opinion. Remedy is doing gods' work here with Ahti and his accent, since the actor Martti Suosalo actually doesn't as far as I know have even close to this heavy an accent in real life.
Yeah, Ahti is voiced by and somewhat modelled on Martti Suosalo (but a bit older and melted).
The sign of a good actor, can speak in a voice that is not their own
Something that didn't get mentioned is that when you're following Ahti to get the cassette player is the one time in the main game you don't exit through the black pyramid door in the Oceanview Motel, but the door marked Janitor at the back of the entry hall.
An important thing about Objects of Power and especially the Service Weapon (you may mention this in a later part Monty so forgive me) is that they've existed for a long time. The Bureau theorises that the Service Weapon was also Excalibur, Mjolnir and Varunastra. I believe there's a note talking about how these objects likely adapt over time as human technology changes.
Also my assumptiong with Dylan's line about a writer who wrote about a cop being in another world is that he's actually referencing Sam Lake possibly. Or is talking from Hatch's POV where Alan is in a different dimension to HIM, but not Dylan.
I think it's possible that Jesse got into the Oldest House through the lockdown thanks to the one character we know can ignore absolutely any locked door. Ahti. She's there to be the janitor's assistant after all.
I think we're going to find that that's a much bigger job than director
@@piratetv1 It does seem like there's going to be a lot of messes to clean up...
I also think he knew she was on her way and that she'd be perfect for the job
Monty voices in this episode are outstanding. The horror of Threshold Kids is conveyed perfectly
We do learn in the DLC that the Board doesn't control the House directly, they're more sort of "plugged in" to it. The implication is that they both existed independently, but became linked at some point through a threshold, then the FBC came along. Ahti as a personification or protector of the House separate from the Board is implied by one mission in the Foundation, where his related Item also affects the Board Constructs the same as humans and Hiss. I think he's older and more powerful than all of them.
Re: The Former, I think it's stated somewhere that Altered Items specifically aren't connected to the Board or Astral Plane, but OoPs are which is why they can be harnessed by Parautilitarians. The Former was trying to convert AIs into new OoPs, which is why they started acting differently. It was trying to forcibly connect them to whatever version of the Astral Plane it inhabits and clearly wasn't having much success.
Now that I've watched the whole episode, I have some thoughts on the collective unconscious for OOPs powers. You gents wondered about who or what sets the powers, and I think you may have missed some key ideas here based on your generation. For example, the floppy disk carrying "launch" makes perfect sense to someone who lived through Cold War. People weren't necessarily afraid of radiation or bombs; it was the looming fear that a country would launch their nukes. It was very focused on the act of launching and the crippling fear that once launched, there would be little anyone could do to stop it. The fear of launched nukes and the power of launch codes was extreme during this era. The projector is another power that makes perfect sense in historical context. Back in the day, especially in the 1950s through at least the 1970s, before the Internet was really a thing at all, people would take tons of pictures while on holiday, especially out of the country or to exotic locales. It was normal for someone to share their trip with friends and family using a slide projector. It was almost like a home cinema night to do this. Projectors evoked the thought of destinations and interesting, strange or exotic places. People could escape there or relive the trip in a way by viewing the slides. Both objects' powers make perfect sense for the time in which they were the most relevant. Just some interesting ideas from a history major lol. Again, awesome video! I'm eagerly awaiting the next episode from the Remedyverse!
You're very correct about OoP deriving their properties from the collective unconscious. It's why modern technology can't be used in the Oldest House. Modern tech doesn't doesn't have enough of a Jungain archetype attached to it to exist within the Oldest House, yet; so, it either cessis to exist entirely or is destroyed; like the immune system eradicating a foreign body. It's also why the FBC prohibits items that are 'archetypal representations' inside the Oldest House. The list of specific prohibited items is the very first collectible found at the main security desk just off the entrance.
It's also explained in one of Darling's presentations that the big difference between an Atered Item and an Object of Power in an OoP's connection to The Board and the Astral Plane.
I've just started it and I love that Chase honestly doesn't expect Alan to show up even after all of Monty's teasing
My favorite crazy theory with ahti and the oldest house is that he is some sort of Norse god and the house is a version of Yggdrasil. Crazy but it’s a fun idea.
It's not that crazy, it's heavily implied if not explicitly stated that Ahti is a senile Old God. And trees factor heavily into symbols in the foundation. With the Oldest House connecting to countless other planes, and the implication it may have at one point appeared as a tree before modern cities were a thing, it has a lot in common with Yggdrasil.
I wish I had friends that were this attentive when I explain Control.
as a DCer, i have this one memory of playing hide and seek as a kid with a few friends in the government building my dad used to work in after it was entirely shut down, just entirely dark. playing control just brought back that experience for me in the most terrifying way.
Something I really want to point out about your first conversation with Ahti that can be really easy to miss but initially tipped me off that something with Ahti was really weird is he responds to something in Jesse's internal monologue. She internally says he's a friendly face in my book. And he responds outloud with "better than having no face at all." That's what really initially tipped me off to his strangeness.
One of my favorite things when discussion the OOPs is the fact that they become such when a great amount of specific attention has been attatched to them. The floppy disk was specifically the Soviet nuclear launch codes and learning launch. The safe gives you a sheild as a safes job is to protect. The hotline to the board just appeared in the directors office but it looks like the emergency phones that go straight to the president in older American movies. I just love the care they took in setting up the rules of these altered items in a way that is really cool to think about.
Monty I want you to know that I absolutely burst into giggles the moment you said well I ship these two because absolutely same. I think they are adorable constantly when they're around each other.
What darling says in his presentation about altered items is that they are not quite sentient. It's almost more like they are programmed to cause one thing happen over and over. They are results of AWEs but it is uncertain about how they specifically come about. Objects of power can either be the causes of AWEs or the result. I'm not quite sure if I'd classify the typewriter in Alan wake as an OOP but I definitely agree on the poltergeist objects in Alan Wake being altered items.
I'm also going to correct you on something very very minor from the beginning of the episode they're at least were other custodians I just think ahti is the only one left it's own entirely know if hes entirely human sooo. But in a collectible called hotline security log it lists a Bill Everett and a Carol Bishop as custodians.
The control points are not places the bureau forces the house to shift but places that the bureau has identified as being vital junctions within the oldest house that they can use to stabilize those sections of the oldests house. As for the Black pyramid in central executive my personal theory on that is that it is connected to the nail in some fashion and that is part of what makes that specific area a control point.
Now dont trash poor Langston. The mans just a big goober. He does really like his job and takes it very serious. If you just listen to him he'll start talking about now the Trench is gone bringing back up his proposal about rituals and unusual behaviors to keep altered items calm because Trench didn't take that seriously. I think there's a collectible around that as well.
As far as I understand Hedron and Polaris are one in the same. I believe Hedron as the big thing planted Polaris in both Dylan and Jessie and because it is a ressanonce it does not need to be in one place it can exist in many places once.
I think Polaris is just ESP possessed by Jesse and Dylan. In the shining, Danny also thinks of it as an imaginary friend
I’m 40 seconds in and it’s already gold. I’m just imagining you hitting a button on a laptop, playing this audio and Chase just having this confused look on his face.
That is EXACTLY what happened! Neil knew what was coming, but Chase had no idea what was happening! - Monty
@@LoreDump That’s incredible, I can just imagine his bewilderment lmao
A point of clarification: talking with Emily about Trench- she mentions that its possible that the way you can talk to him is that he was killed by the service weapon. A bullet from The Weapon is *in* his head, and its echoing with his thoughts and memories. That is what the phone picks up- the memories and considerations of a Dying Man. The connections to Darling, however. Is said to be because of his and Jesse's connections with *polaris* [IE: Hadron] prompting resonance/communication.
How does this account for Marshall and Alan Wake though? They both communicate through the hotline but aren't connected to Polaris/Hedron nor do they have a service weapon bullet lodged in their brain
Dylan : In fact, I am having a dream right now. In this dream, I am standing in a corner, watching Jesse and Dylan talk about this very dream. "This very dream", he said just now. And repeated it again now. I'm standing there and watching, and that's all I can do..."
Said while the player watches from the Corner camera angle.
When I got to Hedron, it was very confusing and I got the sense that Jesse was also very confused.
You open up the protective shell which Darling put around it and there isn't anything in there. Jesse mentions it being gone or dead and being too late and gets taken over.
Darling mentions something about it not being the source, but a catalyst and something about it not being there anymore (paraphrasing as its been a while since I've played).
All and all I got the sense that it somehow wasn't there in the first place and that it had something to do with Darling.
I could be so wrong as it was just a very big "huh?/what?" moment for me, but I'm unsure that the Hiss actually did anything and might have gotten tricked along with Jesse and Polaris.
I know its a side quest but I'm sad you guys had to skip the mold, it's my favorite part of the game and it's so completely bizarre
I have a different experience with control than most I think. I didnt know about SCPs and Remedeyverse when I played it. The world felt like something that existed but I didnt know. The way everyone reacted felt so different than other fiction universes where there is no real point of view person. Everyone knows more than me and it was interesting exploring the world. It almost felt like this could be real and Im the only one whos just finding out. Jesse reads to me like someone whos seen so much weird at such a young age that none of this is surprising. For example Im brought up on my culture ( Hindu) so the temples, idols and worship seems normal to me. But if someone who knows nothing of this, nothing of the concept of god or worship suddenly finds my world. They would find everything to not make sense but everyone in that world is so used to it that they dont react at all. Also kind of crazy that knowing nothing of Remedyverse still gave me a satisfying experience with a lot of intrigue while providing another seperate layer to those who know.
PS: The way board spoke was so cool. It freaked me out cuz I never saw something like that. Cant wait for control 2.
23:35 not exactly. It's items that have a special meaning or symbolism in the human psyche. The carousel horse isn't the way it is because it was part of a horror story or an AWE necessarily. It's because for children, it represents flying/dashing around. Similarly (as another comment points out), the floppy disk holds the power it does because it symbolized the ability/action of launching nuclear missiles into space/at enemies. The supernatural doesn't concentrate in an object unless that object holds a meaning to many people. Think Elias Canetti's crowd symbols.
I still want a game based on what happened in ordinary. The not-mother and all the weird shit in that could be it’s own game or at least a dlc
Honestly with all of those title drops in the games I wouldn't be surprise if Mr. Scratch said something like "I'm Allen Wake too" in the next game
Hey... so there is a picture in the Prime Candidate Program showing jesse in a diner talking to someone wearing a beanie. From behind it looks kind of like Beth from the 2010 point in time 🤔🧐
Am I the only one reminded of Lu-Tze from Discworld when meeting Ahti?
The Janitor who's higher than whoever's in charge.
Control is my first Remedyverse game!! I only finished it a few days ago and it was such a bittersweet ending - on the one hand I was so sad it was over, but on the other hand I finally get to consume Monty’s critique and these lore dumps (which came at the perfect time!!)
I’ve been making my way through all the lore dumps and critiques - longform videos make brain go brr - but I was saving Control until I’d finished playing, and the first 5 minutes of the Alan Wake critique convinced me to buy the game and go in as blind as I possibly can. I HAVE watched the Quantum Break critique and lore dump, just because I wasn’t as interested in playing it and I hadn’t realised they were all Remedy games when I started, so my knowledge of the Remedyverse is definitely incomplete and has all been acquired during the past fortnight lmao
I will say that the wall behind my desk has now turned into a conspiracy board full of sticky notes of important quotes and references that is for SURE going to grow when I start Alan Wake. A lot of the connections to Alan Wake in Control went unnoticed by me, short of the ones that specifically mention Alan Wake by name, though my understanding of those were still super limited. Even now what I know about AW is limited to: he’s a writer, there’s a darkness, the doctor is bad, there’s a lake, metaphor for writers block made literal?
Control has definitely provided me with a lens to view Alan Wake through; going into it in this order means that I’m kind of viewing Alan Wake as a playable AWE, I guess? I’ll be looking out for the things that are mentioned in documents in Control, but it’ll be interesting now with Control as my baseline - it’s easier for Control to reference BACK to a game released in 2010, but I’m wondering how AW might ‘foreshadow’ things in Control or at least inform/give meaning to my understanding of it. The lens of the FBC provides a very distanced, objective view of the events of AW, so it’ll be cool to see what the lived experience of it - especially considering you don’t get any gameplay of the Ordinary AWE and everyone in the Oldest House (even Jesse, but I have WAY too many thoughts about this and putting them in this comment would double its length) seems to normalise the paranatural, it’ll be cool to experience an AWE in the ‘real’ world. I know/think the tone of Alan Wake is a lot darker than Control though which is exciting, I love horror games so I’m excited to see a Remedy game with more of a tense atmosphere.
(also Jesse and Emily are so girlfriends, how did I miss this?!?!)
I expected a lot of things, but the line "Paddington 2 doesn't have hot nude men it it" was not one of them, great job guys
The Ocean View Motel has a name that's very similar to the Desert Shore Motel in American Nightmare. Remedy have said that the game is canon, and really, the nature of Alan Wake means that pretty much everything can be canon. But anyway, it made me wonder whether there were other hotels and motels ... that were linked. So yes, you can go anywhere through the Ocean view hotel, such as other parts of the oldest house and other dimensions , but ALSO other linked hotels and motels. It definitely captures the whole small town Americana feel that these games are going for too.
One small thing you guys forgot is that there's a record by the old gods of Asgard to be found in the ordinary landfill and Jessie mentions how her dad used to love that band, it's small but it's something
I feel like that hints that her father was also a parautilitarian
I find it interesting that Alan Wake's Body and Voice are the two biggest guides in Jessie's journey into her role as the director. The body being there physically and not communicating directly while the voice only ever appearing through taping and a spirit phone....
Could Darling leaving be the breadcrumbs Alan leaves behind to save himself?
Great episode as always. Listening to the last two episodes back to back I feel like Control succeeded in engaging and getting my brain flow going in all the ways Quantum Break fails.
P.s. that cameo at the start was great as a fellow Basement fan.
Isn't that also the like voice actor of Max Payne or his physical actor in Max Payne 2?
Let's fucking goooo, I just rewatched the quantum break one a couple days ago. Love hearing y'all just chill and banter.
I think its funny how this game is about scp type artifacts and theres a tv show called warehouse 13 which is a series about a secret organisation collecting scp type artifacts...who happens to have the main character from quantum break as a main character in the later series of the show.
And the de facto caretaker of Warehouse 13 is named Artie.
The town of Watery where arti goes on holiday is just down river from bright falls, it’s on the map of the area surrounding bright falls on the Wellcome to bright falls flyer
When I heard you say the name “Richard Bowker” out loud I immediately thought of “Richard Bachman,” which is a pen name of Stephen King. I can totally see Alan writing this letter and using a pen name for anonymity and choosing one similar to another famous writer.
Emily Pope will be the key to all this in the end. Literally no Lore Dumper could be worth ignoring.
I read the description first and still wasn't prepared for the intro.
There were a few details that you missed, like that throughout the game you need to do these weird and tedious password puzzles and that in the room you enter after ash tree lane is first the vid of dr Darling, then you find that the room is LITTERED with potential password diagrams and the shot in framed in such a way that when the shutters open and Jessy is like "I am finally going to meet you?", the shutters open to reveal the shape of a massive polyhedron and it inmediately becomes clear that the passwords of dr Darling are ALSO based on Hedron. That was a pivatol "Get Fucked" moment for me.
My first one was when traveling towards the Foundation, you leave the Ocean View motel through the Janitor room. THAT was the moment I started getting afraid. And that when you meet Ati in the Foundation, you can see the cabin at the lake, bleeding, shimmering into reality in the same way as that the slide projector creates a gate way. First you see the red sand, then a shimmer and then you enter the desert.
Finally, I want to talk a bit about Ash Tree maze. In the video "Control, Anatomy, and the Legacy of the Haunted House" by Jacob Geller, Jacob makes the connection between The House of House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski and the game control. In the top comments of Jacob's vid basically confirmed that the creators of Control were influenced by House of Leaves and different video essay's on the internet taught me that Control is basically a love letter towards New Weird fiction. House of Leaves is fucking awesome. It does a lot of funky things with the layout, story telling and if you would ask 10 people "What is House of Leaves about" then you will get 10 completely different answers.
To explain just how good the writing of Ash Tree Maze is, I will share my opinion on what I believe that House of Leaves is about and why I really like Jessy as a protagenis. Spoilers for the book!
The book reads a bit like "Letters to Dracula" and accepting that the book is basically about 2 characters, Zampanò who wrote the main body of text and Johnny Truant who responds. In the short story, the mother of Johnny writes letters to Johnny years before the book even starts. Zampanò, a blind man, writes about a documentary about The House on Ashtree Lane which was made by Navidson.The problem with the House starts when The House gains 1/4" on the inside and thus, the inside becomes bigger than the outside. Navidson NEEDS an answer and in the documentary, he investigates. Zampanò describes the actions of Navidson, tries to pin down and explain why he does what he does. And Johnny responds to the texts written by Zampanò in footnotes. The footnotes become pages long and it starts fucking with the reader. Neither Zampanò nor Johnny Truant are reliable narriators. Zampanò is blind which is really interesting when describing the visuals of a DOCUMENTRY and Johnny has... a severe mental breakdown in the opening pages of the book.
My belief is that Johnny Truant wrote the entire record, frabricated the entire thing from left to right in order to cope with the loss of his father and the sexual abuse of his mother, which she wrote about in the letters she send him as a child and committed suicide afterwards. The House, which deepens, twists, turns and either destroys the inhabitants or they move out of their own accord. To me, this resprents the devestating effects of complex PTSD. Either it consumes you or you heal from it. Navidson manages to get out of The House with a new collection of mental scars.
But Jessy? Man. She fucking crushes it. She takes ownership over her situation, steps up and takes control. The Maze shifts to where she needs to go. Where the House obscures, the Maze reveals. Where Navidson was confused, afraid, cold and powerless, Jessy shines bright and becomes empowered throughout the section. In that liminal space she went from "I should take control" towards "I control" and it is so incredibly effective how the scene handles itself. The doors opening up, the walls breaking away, it is exactly the opposite of what House of Leaves does and as woman with C-PTSD, I found the confidence that Jessy radiates by the end of the story to be liberating and inspiring.
I love love love House of Leaves and I cant recomment it enough. But good god, Ash Tray maze was the best setpiece I have ever played. Fantastic. 10/10
He man I just discoverd your channel and you are really a good story teller!
I played have beat this game maybe 10 times already and I wantend to clearify the Hiss and Polaris/Hedron resonance. 1:?They are both a vibration/wave or kind of energy with a natural frequency. The Hiss have a agressive/invasive frequency. The hiss forces people to its frequency and totally dominate those people. Polaris/hedron is harmonious and softer. Polaris adjust her frequency to the person so they can resonate. When frequencies are 180 degrees polar opposite they cancel each other out. Polaris/Hedron ensured the Hiss couldnt spread futher in to the oldest house.
2: Polaris and Hedron are basically the same. They are the same resonance but Hedron was a amplifier for the polaris resonance not its source.
Oh boys. Gents. I- I’m so excited for you lot. Genuinely thrilled.
That Mother’s Basement cameo made me scream in excitement. Get ready for the flood of new viewers and subscribers from if/whenever Jeff mentions this off-hand on MB! Lol
In all seriousness, I really needed this today. Your lovely banter on this fascinating game is exactly what I needed to get me through the hellish depths of spring allergy season XD
Edit: GOD this game made me FASCINATED with brutalist architecture. It’s one of the few examples of it that I genuinely, truly love. Gaaaah such a cool connection to art history I love Remedy so much for this. It has such sinister implications beyond what they even imply through the rest of Control’s subtext.
People always think Jesse is weird for no reason, but I believe that there's an audio tape in one of the levels before going to the Ordinary Town Model and it's her basically talking to a psychiatrist. I assume the events made her borderline insane. That's why she's so weird and eccentric. The traumatic experience pretty much made her mentally ill
Regarding the typewritten page, I suspect the redacted word that Monty drew a blank on was 'spoken'. It's the only thing I can think of that makes thematic sense and fits the space font-size given.
Waited till the DLC and forgot to add that we don't talk about the "delicious" mold creatures or the supernatural music testing room?
I don't think Northmoor had the parautilitarian ability to generate heat/energy. I think Northmoor was just so obsessed with gaining power that he ended up linking with more OOPs than his body can handle and the heat/energy that he generates is a side effect of that. Which is also why he can't control it.
FYI: The "hexagons" Darling is obsessed with are likely 2D projections of 4-dimensional cubes a.k.a. tesseracts a.k.a. hyper cubes, aligning neatly with the overall theme. These are usually depicted as one 3D cube "suspended" within another one where the corners are connected; if you use an isometric perspective projection and align the whole thing just right at 60 degrees you get Darling's hexagons
I just want to note a cool thing about Sankarin Tango: when the song gets to the part that references Quantum Break the melody shifts to incorporate the Quantum Break theme into it.
I always assumed that Ahti is on the same level(as in what they are and power scaling) as the board but is a separate entity that just decides to be the janitor for the oldest house.Though I am not an expert so might be wrong on that one
RE Ahti on his vacation, I'm assuming the faint suggestion of forests is because he's having a sauna by a spectral lake somewhere, ... even though it's at the bottom of the oldest house! But, correct me if I'm wrong: there is a more explicit reference to trees down there, right? Isn't there a large drawing of a tree down there? It's been a while. Anyway, it made me think about the World Tree, Yggdrasil od Norse myth, especially considering that his "friends" might be "Thor" and "Odin". ;) He might even be on vacation with them! Hah.
3:07:23 Okay. Seems like the wrong information you guys had back in episode one that I pointed out has been resolved. Alice WAS in the lake, there was no time f**kery. Alans story worked as it should, he followed the rules unlike Zane and made a sacrifice to get Alice out. Cool. xD
You’re in for a fun ride with the rest of these lore dumps I think each episode has at least one “uh so I was totally wrong when I said X in American Nightmare SORRY” 😂
To give Monty some credit. I've heard much worse Finnish accent's, I like it a lot.
Fart in a Sahara and Dog buried are all Finnish sayings. Not sure if that's addressed as I am in the middle of listening.
- Your residential Finnish watcher
Loved this as always, even if I've played the game a couple of times it was super enjoyable to hear different perspectives and reactions. Also lots of details new to me, there is so much to learn about this game. Here are some things I wanted to add that I've written in a separate note as I listened along:
Chase will like this: there is a very loose and speculative potential Beth Wilder easter egg in the Prime Candidate Program. In one of the photographs Jesse can be seen talking to someone wearing a beanie (like Beth did), again it's very loose but still. Slightly off topic but in Alan Wake, during the first encounter with Zane in the nightmare he reads one of his poems:
"For he did not know
That beyond the lake
He called home Lies a deeper, darker
Ocean green
Where waves are *Both wilder*
And more *serene*
To its ports I've been
To its ports I've been"
There was another previous mention of Ordinary: In the Old Gods of Asgard song from American Nightmare, if you reverse the audio at a certain point you can hear "it will happen again, in another town, a town called Ordinary".
About Altered Items and OOPs, I think a better comparison to Alan Wake would be the poltergeist and the thermoses as Altered Items like you said, but a better example of an OOP would be the clicker. As someone who played Control before Alan Wake and went in knowing about the influence that the collective unconscious and important events have on OOPs, as soon as Alan Said that the clicker took mythical proportions in his mind because it was from his absent father I immediately thought it might be an OOP. I'm not sure if the typewriter is as good of a comparison because I think it's the Dark Place that causes what it's written to come true, so the typewriter itself is not necessarily an OOP because then all the other artists in the lodge would have OOPs and that would be a disaster.
Monty's Topher voice is peak.
About the doors: there is a very prominent asset in Alan Wake reused in a lot of parts in the game. It's a book with a big spiral in the cover, titled The Withinside. And if you look in the game files, all the door symbols have names: Pyramid white, Pyramid black, Alan Wake (spiral), Control 2 (magnifying glass), Doors (rectangles) and Vanguard (circles).
Another repeat actor: James McCaffrey now plays Trench, but he previously voiced Max Payne, Thomas Zane in Alan Wake, and Alex Casey the Return trailer in Quantum Break and in the little snippets of the Sudden Stop in Alan Wake.
Just a small thing: I don't think Ahti's postcard appears until he goes on vacation, and Watery is a neighbor town of Bright Falls, potentially from where the Wakes came in the ferris.
More on OOPs and the Board: I'm pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned that all OOPs have a connection to the Astral Plane and the Board, but I'm not sure if AWEs have to be necessarily linked to OOPs (it's just that it's typically the case because OOPs cause many AWEs). The collective unconscious does also have an effect, that's why all the OOPs are these sort of 'signature items', why these types of collectively known items are not allowed inside the bureu, and why I theorize modern technology doesn't work either. A lot of the ideas are messy to understand and I see Chase especially confusing some of them, so I think Monty could show the others Darling's presentations about these general concepts like OOPs, Altered Items, AWEs, Places of Power, the Astral Plane, etc. They're very short and sweet, and should clear some things up.
Something else about William Kirklund and Frank Breaker: in a comic that came out all the way back when Alan Wake released, we saw Frank Breaker contact Kirklund, and in the remaster a letter from Kirklund addressed to Frank was added in Sarah's office. Also, in the Return trailer from Quantum Break, Kirklund is one of the names in Casey and Anderson's investigation board.
And finally more on Tom as a filmmaker: The poster in the remaster still says Tom the Poet, but it now goes more in depth into it being a movie poster, saying that it's a film by Thomas Zane in which he plays the Diver, and the events of the movie are based on Alan's writing, with more characters form the game as cast members. What I think could've happened is that at some point after Alan Wake but before Control, Tom was changed to be a filmmaker in one of Alan's Return attempts, because back in Alan Wake Barry could't find much, but he still said Tom was a poet, and Jesse with Polaris and being a para-utilitarian can percieve reality shifts or perhaps she also found another shoebox. The only thing I can't make sense of is how does Alan have this poster in his nightmare before learning of Zane. Perhaps this idea was implanted by the Dark Presence early during Alan Wake, and the Dark Presence being involved could also explain the weird Zane in AWE.
Anyways these are just some thoughts and I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing as I can only imagine what it takes to put together an episode of this podcast, which was again a fantastic listen and I can't wait for the next one!
Sankarin Tango, I'm pretty sure, also has stanzas that reference Max Payne and Control's Jesse Faden herself!
I'm genuinely upset that I've been missing these episodes, I'm on TH-cam every day, all day and I've somehow missed them. guess I have a ton to catch up on.
I don't recall hearing you say this so if you didn't, you forgot that there are times ahti is speaking but not there and seemingly responds to Jesse's thoughts like he can hear them.
2:41:23 they found the oldest house way after the organization was founded
I don’t know if somebody already pointed this out. But the reason Jessie took so long to find the Oldest House is because it hides itself, you basically can only find it if you’re actively looking for it (meaning the Oldest House, not just the FBC) or already knows where it is. The Oldest House is inspired on the 33 Thomas Street building in New York, a giant concrete monolith without any windows that absolutely nobody notices unless somebody points it out. It’s really freaky
Also, when we se that board with photos of Jessie there’s P7 written somewhere (don’t remember exactly), leading me to believe that Jessie was also groomed to be director. Like her and Dylan were two methods they were testing
God, before I listen to all of this and talk specific points I just wanna gush why I love this game and its story.
On a conceptual level literally every single thing it does is just infinitely cool, it truly manages to tap into the infinite potential of the SCP concept and bring it to life beautifully. And really "infinity" and "unkown" are the keywords here, the biggest success of the worldbuilding is suggesting an infinitely vast and strange world, but also making the snipets of this vastness we actually see really cool and intriguing. And the main characters being the bulwark against the infinite chaotic strangeness is just pure urban fantasy goodness.
Even if the execution doesn't always live up to the concept it's close enough that it doesn't take too much away from it.
Your Mr. Bones impression is way too good omg 😂
NO INTERRUPTIONS!! 😂
It's been great following these as a silent participant. I've literally no friends to talk about this remedy verse with so it's been great hearing other opinions from people as into the series as myself, bravo gentlemen
I can't quote you an exact scene or anything, but IIRC Darling *is* a parautilitarian, just a really weak one. I recall him mentioning that he could use some OOP (I think the floppy disk) but could barely throw a pencil across the room.
It's implied all people have some latent parautilitarian abilities as FBC personal are able to recite the invocations and formulas Dr. Ash created to identify and passify altered items; but, only a few are very strong and able to bind O.o.P.s or display outward 'paranatural' abilities; like remote viewing. It's what they appear to be testing Dylan on in the 'therapy' clip. If he can decern info outside his immediate knowledge.
One of the things they didn't touch on is that Alan Wake was a Prime Candidate (P4) before he disappeared in Brightfalls. Jesse finds a memo and closed files on Wake in the Prime Candidate Program offices.
Alan had been identified as having paranatural abilities (probably around his writing) by the FBC before he went to Brightfalls, which is a major Easter egg.
Just want to toss in that Ahti essentially threatens the Board. When he talks to you at the beginning of the game about going to the interview. He says something along the lines of, "If they don't hire you, I'm going to take them behind the shed and beat their ass" (obviously paraphrasing).
Also, I resonate with the opinions/personality of Neil. I am designating him as my spirit animal until further notice. Had the Magnus Archives saved to check out sometime. That timeframe is moving forward.
there was a theory when control first came out that Ahti has been there the longest before the FBC that hes the Oldest House personifed not the board or an extension of the Oldest House. kinda like the Board is just using the Oldest House as a base and Ahti has the authority to kick them out if they go against the Oldest House's wishes. Also he calls Jesse his assistant when she become director like he's actually the one in charge not the Board or the director. Oh and Ahti can hear and respond to her inner thoughts to Polaris.
This is a great point. I think Ahti. Being a force of keeping order in the universe, might want to remove the board from power.
The giant thing that I'm really surprised gets skipped (and not talked about in the first 100 comments either?) is how that critical property of the Oldest House- to never get noticed- is being *leveraged* by the FBC. Because the FBC is based in the oldest house, THEY never get noticed either. The agency's activities don't get noticed, and a memo explicitly establishes that *their line-item in the federal budget* also doesn't get noticed, meaning they get to *make their budget whatever they want*. Having to keep all technology within your HQ dated to the moment you discovered the building (in the 60s) is a small price to pay by comparison.
I know that Monty's been beaten over the head with this already, and he even mentions it, but considering he brings up the counter-argument rather... flippantly? He doesn't really explain it great for the others either, so I just have to reiterate what was said. Maybe his position will change just a tad bit now that there's a reference to Jesse taking a trip to Bright Falls prior to finding the oldest house, knowing how far she's gone to find the FBC.
-Jesse went through some of the more fucked up supernatural shit as a child
-Jesse has an alien being living in her head that (for lack of a better way to put it) has REALLY good vibes.
-Jesse has entirely embraced the supernatural pretty much after being told by everyone that she's just a loon
-honestly, probably the biggest sticking part is what I have to say twice: Polaris is in her head.
And considering the nature of the Board is kinda weird, and the powers at play in general, there's pretty much every reason to believe jesse is NOT supposed to be an empty vessel for us, and isn't supposed to act like a normal person. At all. ZERO reasons. She has lived the LEAST normal life of anyone, including most of the people in the FBC. the ONLY person who probably would vibe with her are Dylan, Darling (post-hop) and maybe Alan post-bright falls incident of 2010?
Bonus Meme: Thresholds were missed I think?
I just don’t agree that Jesse couldn’t at least be interested or curious in what’s going on.
She’s getting answers she’s searched for her whole life and it’s written like it’s water off a duck’s back for the sake of “New Weird” storytelling!
@@MontyZander For the record, I hate the new weird marketing term as well. Its a pile of nothing.
That being said: I think Jesse is those things, but there are a multitude of factors that affect how she conveys that. Numbness, Trauma's, and ESPECIALLY polaris, something that I think Control 2 has to answer for. Polaris, I think, acts as MORE than just a shield against the Hiss. It's like carrying a magic homeopathy crystal in your head, but its on cosmic steroids and is *real*. I have a hard time believing that there aren't any side effects in regards to her ability to process and communicate-whether its a conscious effort on Polaris' part or a result of hosting herself inside Jesse.
I do hope they show a point in which Jesse does crack.
I audibly yelled F*** OFF MONTY when he mentioned playing Take Control backwards, i had no idea...... I love these men
A 3hr lore dump video on one of my favorite games of all time??
Lez goooooo 🎉😊
Woo! I'd been waiting since I came across the Alan Wake options.
Same!
I have to drop one of my theories here: In that 'house of dreams' blog Samantha had bought the house in Ordinary to renovate it or something right? My theory is that the house was Jesse's house when she was a kid. If she also found the old shoebox and the poems inside in the attic, that could explain why she remembers Thomas Zane the _poet,_ instead of the filmmaker, or y'know even knows about Zane to begin with
still doesn't explain how and why the shoebox ended up in Ordinary tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've had the exact same theory for some time.
In the recreation of the Ordinary AWE found in the Containment sector, one of the houses is red. I think that's likely the Faden house, the same house the blogger Samantha bought. The shoebox, I believe, was found in a closet. Perhaps Jesse's bedroom closet? We know that shoeboxes work as sort of reality strong boxes. Jesse remembers Zane as a poet even after reality has been altered (by Alan Wake?) She even quotes his work; the same poem Alan hears from the Diver Zane. It's likely that Jesse's parautilitarian abilities, along with Polaris, protect her from reality alterations.
@@melissaharris3389No, I think it's because of the shoebox itself. When Zane wrote that a shoebox and all its contents are immune to reality bending, he did not specify which shoebox. As result, he created a loophole where any shoebox may have the same contents and immunity to reality bending.
I literally just finished the main campaign and am happy to hear your rendition. Control is my first foray into Remedyverse and I'm just blown away by their insane attention to detail. ❤️
I recently got into SCP stories and found Control searching for SCP-inspired video games and it happened to be the Steam Summer Sale so happy coincidences.
Threshold Kids will haunt my nightmares forever and I love it. Also I love Dr. Darling's PSA videos. He's a hoot
This podcast is my only experience with the Remedyverse (although I did buy Control on Steam when it went on sale a while back based purely on Monty's recommendation) but when you mentioned a ships anchor that keeps speeding up time around it, you know what I immediately thought of?
"Hey, this isn't a debate! I just watched a ship fast forward through a fucking bridge!"
Awesome as always, y'all really moped the flop with this one!
One of my favorite games in the last decade that I have ever played, super excited for Control 2
1:13:32 American Nightmare, Number One Fan, North Star and Time Breaker on the other hand were Night Springs episodes written by Alan in the Dark Place so he could try to get out.
My Immediate thought when I played Control was that there was going to be some 4th wall break moment, where Polaris is The Player. (Probably not Just because I fuckin' love Bravely Default. But that may have had a hand in it.)
That, or I expected a time where we'd get a character shift to someone else who talks to Polaris, and thus suggesting we were always playing as Polaris, rather than as Jesse.
It's just the way she was so clearly talking to the player, and then "Oh, that monologue wasn't breaking the fourth wall, that's me talking to the entity inside my head!" made me connect the two.
after watching all of the kingdom hearts videos in a row, im glad to come back to the saner remedyverse. thank you all for the great videos on games ill never play lol
I've never played any of the Remedy games, Monty is doing such a good job of making this digestible. Plus, more Lore Dump is always a good thing, keep going boys!
Also about the end and Jesse accepting her role as director, I disagree. The story is a classic character accepting who they are and finding the truth ans embracing their potency and power and taking control so yeah now she's elbrassinf being a director now that she knows the truth.
Also please look at my other comment and find the video on YT to have more clues about Darling's end.
2:09:37 reading these translated lyrics after playing Alan Wake 2 made the hairs on my neck stand up! I love Remedy and their attention to detail! Amazing show guys, I’ve been binging all the remedyverse videos on this and Monty’s channel over the past few days. You’re awesome!
I noticed the exact same thing, remedy the madlads they are already referenced the loop/spiral and the bullet of light to end it in control, which is so crazy!
I'm very glad this exists. I played Control about a year ago and really liked it, but I really didn't understand anything that happened
My favorite Ahti quote is from 'Alan Wake II': "You need to be aware of your surroundings ... you never know what tree the devil shits in."
I thought he sits in a tree
Everyone says that launch is the best ability, but I don't know what they're talking about... Is it a hefty, and satisfying, feeling ability? Sure. But so is shooting a grenade launcher, and launch isn't substantially different from that. I actually got extremely bored with the launch ability, and never really used it. I mostly used the mind control power, but I once did a play-through where I shield dashed through everyone.
Shield dash with the AWE mod that heals you anytime you dash is OP as hell
“You can’t have a crossover with two characters with the same face”
Uhm Twin Peaks did that
Theory for darling: this may be beyond silly, and I haven't thought this through, but what if darling turned into The Former? Consider if the board is the "retired" old directors crossing into another dimension upon "death", since we only can contact trench and the board there may be a deeper connection. The relationship between trench and darling seems similar to the board and the former. I know the board existed before the FBC but that could be them from the future in some timey whimey way or it could be others who were bound to the place from pre fbc time and just weren't called directors yet. Or if we include the other remedy- verse characters, it could be made up of all the well-intentioned characters after they fell out of their respective universe who ultimately did bad things explaining the formers separation. These characters could include Thomas Zane, Paul serene and the directors of the fbc, and trench is just "on his way" to be becoming part of the board. Going further, it could be that darling became part of "the former" through resonance, like hedron, and the being we fight is just what can be perceived by a human in the Astral plane (like an avatar or spirit animal) or is what we naturally exist as but darling (and all of us) in human form has always looked like that, but looks human in this dimension or perceived reality. Probably a crazy theory, but it was a random thought while listening to Montys' theory about darling.
Wait. It's not the 1st of may yet
Hmmmm.....A blog written by "Samantha Wells" couldn't possibly be written by Sam Lake who can't resist a good water joke. No couldn't possibly be.
, awesome! I cannot wait to listen to this. Perfect time while I'm out making deliveries.
Given the SCP Foundation's influence on the game, I wouldn't be surprised if the thermos detail is itself a nod to how silly some details of TSCPF's entries can be
I really think that this is one of my favorite games ever. Its got some gameplau issues, but the story and the meta-lore really keep bringing me back.
You guys are awesome. I really hope that this series/podcast gets the recognition and love it deserves. Keep it up you mad lads! Cheers 🍻
Curiously enough the monitoring station was how both were linked
Whoa, Mother's Basement made a cameo on Lore Dump?! That's a big deal for Mother's Basement, I'm sure!
Sidenote is that I was trying to beat Control before this video got out but expected this at the start of the month, so how dare you all be efficient do a nicety by releasing a video early I guess lol. Still, looking forward to this after I finish up the game myself!
What Trench forgot, what Dylan didn't understand, is that the Director of the FBC is just the assistant janitor.
Decided to play along with the release of each Remedy-verse lore dump episode
Managed to complete Alan Wake and Quantum break before watching their corresponding episodes, but I couldn't help but come here having just finished Control, but not the DLCs yet
Always buzzing for Lore Dump, excited for whatever series is next!
Yes! Thank you for uploading this so quickly! I love this game and really appreciate your content
39:40 Might've helped to explain how OOPs are created at this point to differentiate the 2. In case it isn't by the end of this 3.5 hour video OOPs are created through public perception of an item, where Altered Items were just at the site of an AWE.
Edit: removed a large misunderstanding about what abilities what types of items can have.
One key thing that i haven't heard you guys mention is the fact that the Oldest House is literally Yydrasil