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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- The Webtoon format is bad bad bad. in this video i explore why that is :o
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For some reason this video is seeing another wave of attention, so I feel compelled to clarify: since uploading this, my opinions on this subject have become a lot more nuanced. I still do find page formatted comics aesthetically superior to scrolling comics, but I strongly dislike the way I present my case in this video. It's a much more complex subject than I make it out to be. I do a bad job arguing my point fairly and some of the things I say are just plain wrong.
Basically what I'm saying is, feel free to continue commenting whatever you want, but just be aware that if you're writing a comment telling me how you disagree with my stance in this video - yeah. So do I. I'm planning on making a follow up video discussing this topic in a much more objective way in the future (hopefully soon).
damn mere minutes after I click on this again
Funny enough, comics can work on the phone in their current state, just swipe from right to left or left to right. I just feel that the most accessible way to read comics forced us into the manwha scrolling format instead of allowing more options. And I hate it xd
Someone changing their opinion over time, on the internet, in this economy???
Cool
Lol I commented on this video 2 months ago and decided to try webtoons yesterday. All your points still hold up with me
They say limitation breeds creativity, but perhaps the webtoon format is TOO limiting...
Webtoon feel like more of a slide show with story than a comic, hell if I want to read a story mostly in text but still want to look at anime character, there LN and Visual Novel. And I have like 10 and they are very long.
i have worked as a letterer for webtoons and it its TOO limiting, the comic i was making, the character were in a fighters reality show of sorts, so i had the idea of adding black boxes for when they would swear to help give that illusion of BLEEP sound you would see in tv, but they asked me to change it to literally writing BLEEPs became they say the reader might have problems understanding it
@panjinurfadillah2489 webtoons artstyle is all the same its getting boring
@@KnucklesxReala911funny enough,i would have trouble understanding THAT instead of a black box
This is my problem with that saying, limitations serves as obstacles for artists, if they overcome those limitations they get to produce eye candy art but if they conform to the limitations their drawings are as valuable as gas station snacks that you can't eat.
"Comics are like boobs. They look great on a computer, but I'd rather hold one in my hand" -Stan Lee
I believe he said that.
Excelsior
They shoulda put that on his gravestone for real
Legendary. Imma use that quote for now on. 😂
oh my lord chat is this real
My biggest issue with webtoons is that all the good stuff gets buried. Like for every sweethome or pig pen theres like 80 shitty romance toons.
not even romance anymore the site’s being flooded with even shittier isekai rpg power fantasy webtoons with that generic ass stat screen and i’m fucking over it. but also yeah for every new shitty isekai power fantasy there’s also one new shitty romance to go with it. I read both genres and i think it’s turned me away from each. Now i just stick to the stuff i’m already reading.
ironically one of the webtoons that was shown in the vid for it’s crappy panelling (Couple Breaker) i think is a good romance. Not really anything new or unique being done but it’s great if you like watching drama and game shows :P
it's like that on tapas too. i don't use webtoon, but tapas is always trying to shove shitty, generic romance comics all with the exact same style and plot down my throat. and they do it because it sells. it's mediocre so it's easy to get people to read and, worse, spend money on it. and if it's not romance, it's the same fantasy or action that i already have to filter out when i'm watching anime. the "if it has a really long name it's probably shit" still holds up even on a platform where anyone can upload a comic.
it's a big part of why even though there ARE comics on tapas that i genuinely love, i can't stomach the thought of supporting the creators on there with ink. i don't even know what ink translates to on their paychecks.
This happens in literally all forms of entertainment... Whether it be movies, manga, anime, tv shows, etc... This issue is more of an audience interest issue rather than the medium... Generic genres, like romance and action, would always be more appealing to more people as that's the very reason why they became generic...
I love romance but when it is done with care and heart... The art generally looks so generic, a bunch of 'true beauty' type art that is so... Unbearably smooth and artificial? To appeal to the masses, bc it's so low risk. Well I don't like true beauty but at least this one has a concept and can be funny at times.
It's sad that the mainstream nowadays means the generic and the uncreative
Fr.. 💀💀
Always hates how much negative space there was in webtoons.
I keep thinking my internet has dropped out when this happens
I prefer when they are spaces than when they are not
@@aussiemozzie8123 Turns out you just needed to scroll more, I hate this the most
@@justahumanwithamask4089 yeah its weird
@@justahumanwithamask4089 it also hurt my thumb scrolling down so much
what i hate about the manhwa art style is that sometimes it looks like the buildings are made of paper, like the stiff line and everything looks like a free object that got copy pasted
not only that some of the background look so soulless. like i can't even immerse myself in the story with how bland some of them look. I can appreciate art if they care enough to put effort. Some are even copy pasted shit.
@@marasmusshowdown8638 I have been hanging around in online group of some comic teaching school from China. Well from what I see from their manhwas mostly they only care about drawing the characters and rarely about drawing background and building, cause they know they can just get through by using 3d or photo.
it's because a lot of the background art, people, and even the characters' clothings are free assets reutilized over and over. i'm also wagering a lot of the characters are 3d models, which is why people look stiff and uncannily on-model. there's obviously some manhwa where things seem very organic like manga, but most manhwa are products being pushed onto artists with little time.
@@marasmusshowdown8638 yes omg😭 it looks unappealing and soulless they rely on 3d tools too excessively that it covers up the creativity. Bought this topic to others and got flamed instead😢
Agreed. But churning out 70-80 fully colored and shaded comic panels in a week is insane already, so the artists got to save time …
The artists don’t usually have many assistants with their work to stay profitable, unless they’re super popular. Yet, the audience in Korea expects that much quality content in a short amount of time. The manhwa artists are often severely overworked. It’s a problem.
one thing that commonly happens in webtoon comics is that the world feels empty, it is just characters' heads talking throughout the chapter from different angles.
those webtoons are the bad ones
@@Pinakiprime910bro did you see the background of unordinary, one of the most popular webtoons?
@@MinglesLingles unordinary used to be good at the very beginning but no actual adult used to seriously real unordinary its common knowledge it is bad
@@MinglesLinglesunordinary is generally considered garbage in manwha community
@@Pinakiprime910 I’m tryna say that the background in UnOrdinary is just 3d models
Power fantasy webtoon are such brainrots
Literal rape fantasy
@0rpheus.mp4
I HATE GAME/RPG SYSTEM MANHWA TOO, ITS CRINGE
I love it
It's like bad fast food
@Algorithm_God_Cult MF, please. Then i can say the same for my beloved Isekai
@@hanauzaki6264 you can, most of them are bad... but when you find the right one
Oh god
they will hate you, because they know youre right
(proof? look at the comments)
Facts
Solo leveling is trash all manhwas are garbage
@@Hentaimc-so3hzWhy would anyone argue with a creature such as yourself 😅
Just switch it to most because the vast majority sucks like really bad writing wise and it is not the best way to show your story@@CoconutREAL111
@@CoconutREAL111this video never said the stories in webtoon is bad but his trying to say webtooons format is garbage and is a downgrade from comics
Fun fact: Unordinary, which is one of the most popular webtoons, recently made a print version of volume 1 (and volume 2 is soon coming). The authors actually went through and re-paneled everything to match a page format rather than a scrolling format, and it's great! The added paneling also made it really fun to reread through.
Good video, also!
User generated content vs professional 🤔
Urban Animal did that too. It's really cool to see how these books translate into physical media
Unordinary yapping. Seriously as much as I like unordinary my god they really need to dowm the amount of unnecessary dialogue in there
@@NinjapowerMS Tbf you're reading someone's fanfiction
@@GameoftheYear-fx4mq Yeah reading unordinary feels like reading fanfiction. Doesn't feel like an actual comic half the time.
I would say the issue is not with formatting and design.
The biggest issue with Webtoons is... well, they are self published.
Manga and HQ vastly superiority in Art, Story and Flow is not because of Luck.
It's because the medium was forced to compete for spots for more than 60 years.
Want to be a successful Mangaka or HQ author?
Good luck, competing with 400 others that also want to do the same and are competing for the same spot.
Webtoons because they use the internet as a medium don't have that issue, they don't compete with anything, if they are interesting enough they don't need to be set appart from the others even on plot, which is why a lot of Webtoons have very similar plot points like "Bullying/OP Main character/ Level up/ Game Systems/ Tower/ Retuneee/ Gangsters"
This is such a well stated fact that most of the unique works of Korean artist will be found between the pre-webtoon and the start of the webtoon period.
Yes there are some works that do set themself appart, but when you break them through you start to see the issue of this similarity, it's basically the Isekai genre, but everything is Isekai.
Biggest issue is basically that you don't have something that push foward the creativity, which limits a lot of factors, from Flow, to Design to Storyboard, which creates the stale genres.
great points, i actually never thought of that!
@@coggsie that’s exactly the problem. You are talking about the format without considering the person creating the comic/Manga etc. there’s a difference between the art and how to use the medium in a clever good way. Ive been reading both many mangas and webtoons and with both mediums you have people not creating the most enticing drawn stories. There are so many mangas that really don’t use the format to its fullest potential. I do understand your point, but it’s the artist task to create a pleasing and interesting looking piece of art. I read some really good webtoons that utilize the format in such a clever way which is only possible because of the long format. Yes they are rare but they do exist. It takes a great artist to create interesting stuff with the medium. How do you think mangas started out? They were simple until some artists started to create more interesting drawn pages. Webtoons themselves aren’t that old, so yes, there’s still so much room to grow. Even the example you showed were bad ones. Those are those typical standard drawing that became boring, because too many artist draw like that and it’s enough to sell to readers. And before just judging without thinking: you gotta look at the countries creating those pieces. Depending on the culture you’ll notice certain thing with certain countries: for example: Korea loves pretty people, so they tend to draw more outfits or get super crazy with facial coloration. So yes, the tendency for their webtoons to look a certain way makes more sense. I’m not saying I’m for it. I rather read stories with different styles, but hey, that’s how it is for now. And by the way: comparing webtoons art style with manga art style…with both mediums you will find people who can draw like gods and others not. So that comparison makes no sense.
@@Oluwashino bro chill, i think he understands 😭
@@Oluwashino thank you for explaining this to him. I wrote my own comment about the issue with his argument in how it literally cherry picked bad examples but yours was deff better thought out lol 👍
@@ieatlotsofshit does he? The video says otherwise and he didn’t give an answer. So how would you know? Just asking 😁 but you are right, could have written it a little less aggressive. It just baffles me when people talk without truly thinking.
dear god I dont think I have ever agreed with someone more about something so minor. literally cannot ready manga vertically in any scenario, it just feels so awkward and ruins it
That soo true. Imagine reading chainsaw man and Yoru jumpscare came out in vertical paneling, it will not have same impact.
I think a manga that's actually pretty good vertically is Goodbye Eri. Fujimoto's paneling makes it work
@@egyedgergo8904 yeah, thats because it isnt webtoon type vertical. it would suck if it was
don't forget those mainly awful plastic pastel colors in them
Ok. it makes sense why I prefer more manga on a two pg rather than a fruit-by-the-foot strip from a webtoon.
Or maybe that’s just me being biased.
Webtoon paneling can be creative and engaging, it's more of a matter of what story you are trying to tell. One great example is The Horizon, a story that uses it vertical layout so well that I cant imagine the story in any other way.
I agree, had the same thought on annarasumanara.
tomahawk angel is another great example!
Hellper 😃
Isn't The Horizon paged despite being a webcomic? Just tried reading it like normal webcomics and it looks weird as hell that way.
Mritunjoy’s Tragicomedy is one webtoon w incredible art/paneling that’s honestly underrated.
HOW do all characters in webtoons look the same??? they are all differenciated by hair color or hair style, but their faces ALL look the same, especially with women
The "Same Face Syndrome" (aka "Only Six Faces") happens when an artist is mentally stuck with certain "formulas". For example, facial feature formula a+b+c = cute girl, so every cute girl character will have an a+b+c face. It's hard for the artist to draw a cute girl without those features.
Personally, it was like a bad habit and an awfully tough one to break 😅
akira toriyama
The amount of Sung Jinwoo lookalikes I've seen bro
They are all inspired by each other and it end up with them just copying the faces of each other until the faces just end up looking the same
There's plenty of variety, but it depends on what you read of course. It's kind of like the generic 'anime look' art style you see in almost every anime/manga ever. For example Sword Art Online, Konosuba and every other isekai ever for shounen, and Fruits Basket, Kaichou wa Maid-sama etc for shoujo. Know what I mean? Similarly, webtoons have their own generic 'webtoon look', like Solo Leveling for shounen/seinen and anything with 'villainess' in the title for shoujo/josei. But there's plenty with unique art styles outside of those.
The vertical format that is used in webtoons was invented for digital comics to be easier to read on phones, that’s basically it. I don’t think it’s ruining a whole industry, those who like webtoons will read them and those who like mangas and western comics will read those to each their own.
yes, those who like webtoons will read them, but that doesnt mean webtoons should just be content to be trash artistically
@@Ozone946 Art is subjective
@@walnutsss until those webtoon artists use cgi art lmao.
There's a reason why 3d cgi in anime like berzerk is reviled.
@@Ozone946most webtoons arts are like literally same with 0 to no creativity not all but some , lookism actual feels like a comic and great story line
That's as a fan. But the problem with the industry becomes apparent if you're an artist wanting to make a webcomic like me. Webtoon vertical format dominates online so even if you dislike it, like I do, you don't really have a choice. You have to do vertical even tho so many comic artists hate it.
I want to make panels, not vertical scrolling shit. But I'm not in Japan, I won't get publshed in manga or probably wont get published by western comics either since they're so small and only pick very few stories to publish.
This is why people say it's destroys the indusrty,
Most manhwa are like tiktok brain. Character are one dimensional and there is always regression/system/level-up/dungeon.
This type of works doesn't really need deep thinking or analyzing that's why they are in this format. Also they lack background details.
Everything is fine, metaphorical her, ordeal, black sun, dont read this, sweethome/shotgun boy, the ember knight, high spirits neoma, covenant, finding fiends, hand jumper are just a few titles i would recommend that none of those. Try webtoons outside of the few the shitty publisher highlights.
yea i agree with this, SO HERE ARE GOOD WEBTOONS:DD - like mother like daughter, the guy upstairs, homesick, school bus graveyard, cherry crush (it’s a bl tho) and operation true love
"Most manga are like loser self inserts. Character are one dimensional and there is always isekai/system/level-up/harem.
This type of works doesn't really need deep thinking or analyzing that's why they are in this format. Also they lack character details."
See, you can do it the same way for manga. Filtering good things and only leaving the bad parts is easy. This is just hypocrisy.
@@_apple_juice_thisssss
@@_apple_juice_ Exactly, people take the worst manhwas and compare them to the best manga out there, try reading Domestic kanojo, that shit is pure ass.
To appreciate webtoons, you have to acknowledge that they are a separate medium from web comics. The linear medium makes them drastically more portable and accessible. You could argue the inability to structure text visually makes audiobooks inferior in quality to visual text, but I cant read text and drive to work. I can't read text and wash the dishes. By optimizing a graphic medium for the phone, webtoons do something for portability that unoptimized web comics don't. If you wanted paneling like a normal web comic, you would need a big screen or have to rotate the phone back and forth to view varying vertical and horizontal panels properly.
That's an amazing argument, nothing subjective, just facts c:
Webtoons are fine it's just that they immediately all turned to trash before an experiment stage. Like Manga and comics had experiment and growth stage where they tried to push the limits of art and story until the present day where they basically got the meta which are the current day superheros and isekai trends. When Webtoons came out and not even 10 years passed and it already developed a meta which are the oversaturated art, regression, or time travel stories. Manwhua and webtoons hit its stagnation stage too fast
@@lordlopikong6940 only on the biggest ones. There are tons if great webtoons out there that are unique but its on the webtoon publisher for not highlighting them. Ordeal, metaphorical Her, hand jumper, Don’t read this, black sun. And many more that webtoon publisher should be promoting more
@@artsandgoodies4653 Burning Effect is also one I recommend. Eleceed and Space Boy are also incredible reads and work very well in the format.
@@lordlopikong6940thats just what the stuff the publishers push, if you look for the more indie and smaller stuff you find good shit. ofc what the publisher pushes is going to suck because their bottom line is money, but admist those theres some legit passion projects that do everything you say
Your words about the page format on webtoon bring so much pain, cuz it's so true, I feel like a tapeworm while drawing my comic, but it's still better than sitting and doing nothing, so I'll continue adapting. Dream is a dream after all
don't let my yapping slow you down, you got this! it's still a valid medium and has a lot of potential 👍
y'all are both chads
IMPORTANT!!
I somewhat gloss over it in the video, but I genuinely don't have an issue with Webtoons _qua_ Webtoons. What really annoys me is the precedent of designing things solely for phone consumption and how it tends to create unnecessary and problematic limitations for artistic mediums. The vertical-scroll comic format heavily sacrifices artistic freedom for the SOLE benefit of phone consumability - in my opinion, a very bad tradeoff.
This video is intended to be an argument for how important paneling is to comics, and specifically, how the vertical-scroll format strongly limits paneling freedom. It's not supposed to be me shitting on Webtoons for no apparent reason. While I do personally find them very unpleasant to read (and obviously passionately argue for why that is in the video) I really am glad they exist for the wider comic audience. I think my original title led some people to misinterpret my take, so I changed it.
what a loser take. there are so many NEW possiblities with the medium. paneling still exists, its just different approach. most webtoons arent done by professionals, unlike mangas. if you dont like the medium, dont use it. its just that that simple. dont try and discourage people who want to experiment with the medium.
if you want a simple example of interesting paneling in webtoons check out "burning effects" first few chapters
@kenonerboy Okay. I read it. Is that really your best example? In my opinion, Nevermore and Marionetta both have much better paneling, and I mention those _in the video._
The art style is awesome, but the paneling suffers from the exact same things i criticize in the video: giant blank spaces, and limited wide shots (the only wide shot, in chapter 1, is literally forced to be ROTATED in order to fit. This also happens in chapter 3). There's a really cool long vertical shot in chapter 2, but I PRAISE those in my video at 3:27. What exactly was I supposed to be looking at that distinguishes Burning Effect from my other examples?
Yeah, paneling _still exists_ in Webtoons. My argument is that it's a _very limiting_ format, and the cons outweigh the pros. I also explicitly state in my video that I'm _not trying to discourage any aspiring Webtoon artists_ (5:46). Did you even watch the entire thing?
I do think my video has some _very_ major flaws, but if you're going to say it's a "loser take," you should bring some valid criticism to the table.
@@coggsie I'm pretty sure the people defending vertical scrolling comics have never even picked up a physical book dude, don't bother
As an artist, I agree that it’s limited and a shame. But the scrolling Webtoon format is actually a tremendous opportunity! The issue is just that most webtoons are rushed, and have pressure to be easily legible, to not experiment. And often, they’re made by artists with no experience in a traditional comic/manga format, leading to many empty pages and lessened art quality.
But I’m going to focus on the positives, because there are some fantastic innovations that’ve been made!
Viewing art through a limited frame has a long history. Handscrolls, for example, were unrolled on the left as the other hand rolled them up on the right, so you’d only view a small portion at a time. Phones work EXACTLY the same way (hence the term ‘scrolling’). And unlike comics, webtoons can’t show multiple panels at once, which makes each feel like their own beat, as opposed to adding up to one large image/impression.
And comics artists have long recognized the importance of anticipation in their medium, often placing visual elements on the bottom right corner of the page so you’d turn it, or hiding the reveal of a large spread behind that next page. Webtoons do the same for EVERY panel, with the bottom of the screen hiding whatever is next.
With this, Webtoon artists can replace the wide horizontal panels with vertical ones, unveiling-say-blood splatters or smoke higher up, then as you scroll down, you slowly reveal the source of the bleeding/burning.
“Dragnarok” really amped up the horror aspect with its spindly, pointy branches often preceding a gory scene, to the point that it almost conditioned me to be terrified whenever I scrolled down and saw them peaking out over the border.
Likewise, some comics use the pacing that scrolling provides to gradually fade the background color from white to black, signaling a change from day to night. Or, if you’re descending, it indicates depth.
“Space Boy” does a lovely job with this, often using beautiful, tall establishing shots of space and buildings to give you a sense of scale.
And even more impressive is the art in “Inarime”, where the professional comic artists have tackled the Webtoon format and even used it for STUNNING displays of power discrepancies-my favorite being the end of chapter one, where we see Gods hurling lightning above the clouds, armies clashing, and blood dripping-a mass of chaos, that all focuses and things until it’s just one bolt of energy striking the ring figure of the main character as she sinks into the ocean: m.webtoons.com/en/super-hero/inarime/episode-1/viewer?title_no=675&episode_no=1
The effect is amplified greatly when reading on a laptop, and zooming in so the panels reach both sides of the screen. In that sense, it’s not dissimilar to a movie, just with a slower frame rate.
It’s a great technique for building suspense, but a majority of webtoons (very casual comedies or romances) aren’t taking full advantage of that. The handful that do, though, are spectacular.
those are excellent points! Inarime looks absolutely gorgeous, wow. i think that's a perfect example of artist(s) taking advantage of the format.
i honestly largely agree with what you're saying - i came off far too harshly in my video, which in retrospect is not what i intended.
i still do dislike the nature of "phone comics," but if all webtoons were of (or near) Inarime quality, i wouldn't have made this video. i hope they continue to evolve in that direction, and i truly hope that the platforms actually allow their featured creators the time and resources to actually make good quality work.
The thing that i hate most about webtoon is when there is a long detailed image with hours that put in on the work, but its horizontal and i have to physically turn my head to see it and sometimes read the damn text.
turn your fucking phone then instead
do you by chance use a computer to read webtoons?
you know you can rotate your phone, right?
@@vizthex He's too stupid to realise that webtoons nowadays are designed to read on mobile phones
Imo it’s even worse when the image is horizontal but at the same time the text is vertical
I could not agree more with this. I really hate when a series on Webtoon doesn't try to utilize its medium in interesting ways, and instead just makes boring square images. I truly think that it's possible to make great page composition in the medium of manhwa, but it's just so much harder to do, due to how new the medium is.
There are, however, a few great examples that actually do this correctly. In "The Horizon", 98% if the art is black and white, and there are a select few moments in the entire series where it hits you with pages full of beautiful coloring.
But the best example I've ever seen in my life, has to be the series "Soulwinder", where in an episode really late in, it tells you to lock your phone's screen rotation, then it turns the comic on its side, and suddenly the entire episode goes from a 16:9 ratio, to a 9:16 Imax movie screen ratio. The entire series also has sound effects synced to where the reader is in the story, meaning that there's incredible music that changes in each scene, and sounds for when there are things like gunshots and earthquakes
These examples alone show that, if the creator is really dedicated enough, it is possible to utilize the medium in ways that manga's physically cannot do.
yeah, but that would take effort. Something that the editor, the project manager, the illustrator, the writer, and the colourist somehow cannot put up to the deadline. i'm not saying manga's are better, but *usually* with that much staff for one web comic, it's quality should be on par with a standard comic. Hell, they could've been more better or pushed the 16:9 ratio limitation.
I have a counter argument to this, there's nothing stopping them from using the traditional paneling style, I tested it out with very wide images, webtoons automatically scales them to the screen without any hickups. you can use 4k images aswell and it'll try its best to compress them. and on mobile you can just zoom in like any other app.
you zoom in anyways when you read normal manga pages on mobile.
if anything its either a choice or they're forced by higher ups if they have a contract with webtoons, which is so so much more infuriating.
4:56 yeah exactly my point
There are more different style webscroll comics out there even ones that are webtoon originals. But they do a shit job uplifting those so people have this assumption theyre all the same when its just the same ones they put forward first
Companies these days really just like sucking the fun out of creative works.
And i tried it myself, vertical scrolling makes a work too condensed if you just wanna put it like a normal comic and it's not even difficult to understand. Most of the frame would be crushed and appreciating the art would become difficult.
but constantly zooming in makes for a shitty reading experience - i know because i've done it a few times.
there's a reason comic reader apps tend to limit it to 1 page or a handful of panels.
What you're describing doesn't look like it will be a good smartphone experience
There's no such thing as bad format, there's only bad artists.
This one can do interesting things other formats can't. Just because the most popular ones don't explore the new possibilities doesn't mean it has to be that limited.
And on the case of Solo leveling, despite having an overall simplistic construction, occasionnally some pannels are very interesting and expressive in a way that uses the scrolling rather smartly.
The issue lies in the production pressure, not the artform.
I can recall one manhwa that's formatting was felt justified. It was a horror and author placed frames quite clever and engaging. The background limitations also felt as a tool to emerge a fear of isolation, everything was authentic and... well, a good paranoia fuel
So I guess people just need to catch up how to use this format? But no, that's require work lol
Was it Rotten?
black and white creates a strange dreamscape that color never can
- random quote in my drawing diary I don't use colors
and i won't say that colors are bad they are great but webtoons are just nah
Eh, color allows more detail, Berserk is beautiful but you can't understand what the fuck is going on half the times because all the greys blend together
There’s a naturalism to monochrome that is really hard to replicate with color
@@MALICEM12monochrome is cool, color is also cool. It depends on the style of coloring. I can't stand manhwa coloring. It's so souless and makes me so sick to my gut that I try to throw up the memories of even laying my eyes on that mass-produced garbage.
@@MALICEM12 I personally had no problem with the berserk action sequences
As Someone who only ever read manga and manhwa in the webtoon format 4 six years, I don’t see whatever everybody’s complaining about. I don’t think it really takes away from the story at all. You just get used to it. I think a good example is like solo leveling or something. You have those nice long, vertical pictures that stretch on, and they can basically go on however, long they want not limited by page size. There was another one I read called, her summon. Literally some of the most beautiful artwork I’ve ever seen. Better than manga. it was just vibrant and full of color so full of detail. It made it so easy for something to feel so massive. This is my problem. Another great one is legend of the northern Blade. I just love being able to go down as fast as I want. Going fast makes it feel like I’m actually going at there speed. I don’t really even read on my phone. Usually on my computer. I think it’s really just what you prefer. This is just what I prefer
Most people read on their phone. I personally like the webtoon formating. I think it necessary in the current contrains.
Reading a manga on a phone is a painful experience that'y why i use eink reader or tablet for that.
I'd say the biggest problem with webtoon is that the companies that are responsible for these apps are very exploitive of their artists.
Also the model in the apps isn't good. As reader you don't own the chapter you just buy a temporary license to access it.
The ammount you pay is hidden behind the coin system.
You get much less that buying a manga volume.
This exactly. Mangaka and industry comic creators work under different conditions than webtoon creators.
Optimizing the format for phone screens was always smart because that's how the majority of readers experience it. The issue isn't the format;
It's that webtoon creators have to produce industry rivalling quality on half the budget and expertise for a fraction of the pay and job security.
@@mdstevens0612 formatting could affect the creativity tho 😂
Formatting still have effect for some people
Just because most people read it on phone, doesnt mean it need to follow webtoon formatting
Nah I read manga on mihon, and it's not uncomfortable by any means, the horizontal format is cool in phones imo.
@@karan_singh.364
The issue with reading in mihon or any similar app is that some stories have small text so to see the text there’s a need to pinch to zoom. Which doesn’t create very convenient reading experience.
If I reading manga digitally I prefer to read on a tablet or an eink reader which has big enough screen.
hieroglyphics > comics
As the Pharaoh intended
This shit got me laughing out loud lmao
nah, caveman painting was SOVL
-shitass copypasted icons, only a few ones are original and different
-tries to convey the story through "vision" (its just a worse kanji at the end of the day)
-ordered by somebody else, never born out of passion
VS
-everything was new, there wasnt a set standard
-actually shows whats going on without a verbal system (yes, hieroglyphics is a verbal system)
-born out of free will and creativity
This shit got me dead 😭😭
Stranger by the Shore was honestly one of my most enjoyable reads ever. So glad ppl are talking about how great it is. Awesome video
Webtoon was made for phones. Reading manga on a phone is a pain that's why it's vertical.
This comes down to taste as I despise reading webtoon format.
@@larrytherustyboii7442 lol I get it and I used to think its weird as well then after reading a few webtoons as mangas usually tend to have only 30 chapters lately and then release 1 chapter every 2 months at a geological pace, I got used to webtoons.
Now going back to manga on my phone is a pain. I have to zoom in to read stuff etc.
Webtoons would be really annoying to read on paper or even the PC though but for a quick read in the subway they are great and they usually have a regular release schedule of 1 chapter per week.
Personally, I have no problem reading manga on phone the typical way with Tachiyomi. The only time it is hard to read is when a manga utilize the whole two page of the art while having some dialogue, that is where I will need to zoom in a bit.
Though for convenience sake, Webtoon is better for phones.
He literally covers this in the video..
Yeah but unlike Manga you can actually get tired of the webtoon format. At a certain point the images are non-important for about 90% of webtoons, and just scrolling rapidly and focusing only on the text works because most of the space is just white background. It's pathetic that the main selling point, images, is non-existent in most webtoons or hardly important.
Calvin and Hiobbs goes stupid hard.
so true
We have to accept the change the medium. Manga and Comics are born out of the Newspaper. Even its dimensions are made from 1/8 measure of Newspaper spread. It’s meant to be read on the fly, from a train or a toilet break, then thrown away. It’s only in Silver age when Comics have matured and dedicated volumes are made when the art-form finally matured.
Now, as people trade in the Newspaper for their daily driver of news and entertainment to Smart phones it’s really natural that the art-form must adapt to the new Medium, it’s advantages and disadvantages, plus the present moment psychological quirks of the consumer. We are still in its early decades, like comics in the late 19th to the early 20th century. There is real hope of what’s it final form will be when the medium finally matureS. That is a great thing.
I don’t know how else standard Manga and Comic can evolve. To me it reached its plateau. So to me seeing a new medium really growing successfully both financially and artistically is really satisfying and comforting.
exactly! it's kinda ironic they pointed out how the creator for calvin & hobbes adapted their comic to the limitations of the newspaper space. that is exactly what's happening with webtoons. because of the narrow width of the phone screen, only a few panels can be shown per slide. it is like a slideshow because that's how webtoon limitations molded the media to. nobody wants to constantly zoom in & out of panels just to read speech text, it's easier to tap to scroll.
however many users here shared many examples of webtoon with creative panelling. so it's not like these artists aren't innovating with the limiting medium. people are pissed because it's not the same as they want it to be.
yeah, I agree,
I read webtoon in between my lunch break which is probably 20 minutes or when waiting for a reply email.
Precisely because it's in the same medium as the email I need for.
but also there are great panels on webtoon.
If you look at the comments in the WEBTOONS, some of them say “I wish this was a book I can buy at the store “.
Webtoons reduces the use of paper. So they are at least saving trees indirectly. 😄
Weirdly enough if the Webtoon gets very popular they may release a physical version that may be absolutely worse due to adapting the pannels badly or extremely better due to good adaptation
But, you can not buy webtoons digitally and put them on an ereader
"The single biggest downgrade of the comic book in its history"
Guess we'll ignore the 90s where the became little more than gimmicky holofoil collectible advertisements with barely any thought paid to the story
Dude, webtoons are drawn *for* the vertical format. The *vast* *overwhelming majority* of comics that are made do *not* follow this format. You clearly dont like the vertical format, I dont either, but its not "ruining" comics, ffs
fr
triggered
@@Al-JuhaidyJumad sorry to hear that, didnt realize my comment effected anyone that badly, you poor poor dear
I agree with a lot of the things he's said in this video, I do think the format is very bare-bones and it limits a lot of potentially good moments in webtoon stories with the vertical composition. But honestly? this video just seems extremely empty.
I understand that people are allowed to share their opinion, and I really like how he expressed himself throughout it, but this is the type of video that you watch while answering the questions in your own head.
"Nobody pays attention to the art, they just read through it as fast as possible."
>"Like most manga"
"The webtoon artists try to innovate, and they do it in an amazing way."
>"Then what's the problem?"
The comparison with TH-cam Shorts also was... completely random, I think he just saw that both formats have a 9:16 ratio and decided to bring that up in the video. (It's such a spit on the face of the artists who put effort into their stories as well.)
it's a downgrade because the format is actual camel shit, like honestly. There is no room to breathe and imo it's not "ruining comics" I just don't feel as excited, just another boring thing I casually scroll by as I do on other apps daily
Most webtoons are originate from South Korea and China. Meanwhile, in the Japanese manga market, a majority of audiences still prefer traditional printed manga, and many of the world-famous manga series from Japan today still come from long-established manga magazines.
This is probably why I can never truly enjoy webtoon series. Honestly, even the coloring are also being ruined since they creators also have deadlines, in which color composition & unique palettes & detailed colorization are practically almost nonexistent in webtoons.
At least with manga, having 1-3 colored pages means you know the arts are gonna be something special.
Not only is the format so bad but the stories that get the most traction are absolutely HORRIBLE
what are you talking about? sure some of the genres like romance gets bad traction some times but thats cuz they are romance everything there goes toxic.
honestly cant see how you look at orv and sss-suicide class hunter and say they are bad
That literally applies to everything tho, in terms of manga, how much isekai garbage manga get traction when there is actual good stories in other genres? Same thing with comics, when was the last time someone wrote a decent main continuity spider man comic? Same could be said for Batman, the most recent run of Batman is as popular as popular gets, and it’s ok at best. I do agree the whole format thing is weird tho
Fr. Most of it is just ISEKAI with more talking and ugly backgrounds
so true
Its a different format tgat requires a different way of storytelling that most artosts don’t yet know. Horror stuff like everything is fine, stagtown, sweet home works amazingly for the scroll and tension build up.
I’ve had fun experimenting with the format myself. Relying less on bordered panels and creating more vertical movement in your thumbnails is key. Magic Soda Pop imo uses the scrolling format the best, having characters dive and dance without panels makes for a unique experience you could only adapt to a scroll if printed.
i legit have never read a single good webtoon/manhwa in my entire life and i've read quite a few of the most popular ones.
Been making webcomics for over 5 years, physical comics for over 7 and good lord I could not agree more. There were so many times I looked at my storyboards and said "I rather this be an actual page" or "If the reader would physically turn the page, this would hit so well".
It really is the accessibility angle that attracted me to the vertical layout, but the more I worked with it, the more I wanted to break away from it. The big thing is definitely eye movement. You hit the nail on the head in the video. Webcomics only really have one path for the eye to go: Down. Maybe a sidestep here and there. But a physical page can take you the entire page if it wanted to. All 4 corners in a variety of orders, or between 2 pages and you'd still be on the right path. You just can't do that in a webcomic format.
Once I'm done with my current story this year, and if I ever wanted to make another comic in the future, I don't think I'd ever return to this format.
name
What comics/webtoons have you made
@@eel5618 Keep in mind, they're all super amateur works, it basically became my way to consistently make things and practice art fundamentals + character design. They're not fantastic, but I like them all. I've made:
PEST (2016 - 2018; print)
Dream Dialusion (2020; print)
Dream Dialusion #2 (2021; print)
SUMMON! series (2019 - ongoing; webcomic)
- A Flower in Full Bloom (2019 - 2021)
- Little Dreamer Boy (2020)
- The Nameless Relic (2020 - on)
Additionally, the story is so generic nowadays, this and that just repeat, gradually contributing to its downfall. Yes, you can find some needles in the haystack; but the haystack just keeps on getting bigger. It’s sad man
I have a feeling Solo Leveling and Redice Studio had a role. I can't think of the last time I didn't see a popular series by Redice studio or shared the art style. It's been a hot minute since I saw a series with a unique style like her summon or the first few seasons of Moonlight sculptor. You really have to dig deep for the gems now.
It’s just funny to me. The shonen jump app works perfectly on my phone. The smaller screen doesn’t really impact the original format at all
I've been reading manga on my phone since forever and even I hate the webtoon format. When you have to scroll through 3 full pages just to read one line without scrolling past is super annoying.
@@lharsayyeah like solo leveling has to many problems like that too
I agree, I can't believe this dude in my discord told me webcomics are better than manga XDXDXD, dude's a millineal too and tried to argue that older manga/anime are outdated and webcomics, isekai and all storytelling is better now cause we're in the present so therefore what's out now must be better just due to progression..
EXACTLY, THANK YOU!
The webtoon format is the biggest issue I have with that particular medium of comics, it always feels just so drab and dull. It's no fault of the artists, honestly, I'm sure they would want to innovate if they weren't on weekly schedule that includes everything manga artists do AND coloring, but reading panels in one continuous line just removes so much from the comic experience.
The constraint of phone screen makes it so it is impossible to have panels which would carry same impact as double spread page, for example, as there is only so much that can fit onto the screen.
It feels like webtoons as a medium peaked very early and there isn't much innovation in it, save for standout few comics (shoutout to 4cut Hero which actually plays around with paneling).
As a comic artists who has worked in both formats, I prefer the scroller, I think the ability to completely hide the next panel, or even spoon feed information of one panel to a viewer is very awesome compositionally
Yea I like it because it builds suspense. Unlike manga where if you have blank space you are wasting money. Webtoon artist can spread out the events in a way that is really interesting
As a reader, I absolutely detest scrollers. I'm mainly a manga reader, but a friend of mine told me to try Solo Leveling, so I did. Needless to say, I felt like I was just mindlessly scrolling through the dialogues, and my hand was actually tired from scrolling that much. It really was not fun to read in that format.
my sis' fav manga rental place got shut down when online reading became a thing, quite sad, she been complaining bout not having the physical book to hold
watching your video made me realize TH-cam WHERE THE HELL IS MY ABILITY TO DISABLE SHORTS ON MY RECOMMEND PAGE
Configuration>General>Reproduce in Feed>Never>find shorts on main page>"don't recommend" on every single one>restart app 👍
@@lisandrasanches2822 Okay is this for the phone app or do you have one for PC
@@lisandrasanches2822 but thank you even if it only works on phone
@@Bragemaster Oh, yeah sorry. I don't know about PC version
@@lisandrasanches2822 all good
making a comic being so accessible now has its ups and downs; more people and more ideas get turned into comics and more people and more ideas get turned into comics.
same thing with the advent of digital art: fortunately, you can draw anything anywhere at any time and however you want and unfortunately, you can draw anything anywhere at any time and however you want.
The only webtoon that uses the scroll format and colors in the best way possible is Mom's Contract Marriage. When i scroll through it the way the webtoon reveals scenery and information is beyond impressive. And the colors genuinely create a whole new dimension in the storytelling. It by far outdoes every manga I've ever read. In chapter 6 there is a panning scroll that is done so perfectly well that I ended up sitting for minutes to just soak up the beauty of it. Please do a review on it the official uploads are on Tapas.
There are webtoons i really love and also some that do panelling really creatively and well as well. I've seen incredible art in webtoons too. But i also agree that for the most part, the enjoyment i get from page spreads is more than the scrolling structure. It's just freer and the artist can be more creative or just put the panels where they want. They just feel more enjoyable most times.
This feel like the argument:" paper books is better than E-book" if you think about it
because it is the same argment and is just stupid tbh
except is nothing alike. e-books dont change the way something can be written and its just an upgrade you can read a book in either of the formats and there would be no differencies. But webtoons and manga are almost completely different in comparison as he explains in the video.
Or also like "this video is better than this picture". Both are two different kind of formats, yet both can be enjoyable if done well
Don't compare manga and web webtoons. They're made to be different. And just to be clear, I ain't a huge webtoon fan, I've just read like two, but I don't see the point in comparing both in that way
@@artemi-sim4872 instead let's compare novels vs webnovels instead. Seems like that fits the analogy better
I've only read 2 webtoons but i can't really imagine reading more. The art was amazing but it's annoying having to scroll down for like 30 seconds to see a long ass panel that honestly would've looked better if it was wider. A lot of webtoons look damn near the same which makes it tough to remember what happened in which one instead of mixing them up. Also i can read through a chapter in like 2 minutes which is bonkers and doesn't allow me to stop and look at the art as much.
try Hellper
I mean I don’t find the scroll format too bad to read on my phone. But I prefer manga/comic panels when they are in my hands. But on my phone? It’s just easier.
My main complaint is webtoons are so derivative in their plot. It’s all the same thing; hero looks like a K pop idol, regression/isakai, gamification of life etc. it’s like if you read one you’ve read them all.
I am not gonna lie I feel like this is a really horrid take. to denounce a form of art as simply inherently inferior is bafffling. Yes I can understand critiques of this style of comic and I do know there are many cons but to say it is inferior whilst ignoring all of its pros and things that only it can do is dishonest.
1. The vertical scroll allows for easier line of action. Many manga due to the fact they were made for pages just cannot have that continous action. Manhwa is fun to read because it feels like a never ending tape. Its fun and fluid.
2. Because manhwa are in the scroll format many of the panels have to be bigger which allows for more visual clarity. Especially in manga sometimes its just much harder to see the small movements or maybe the panel is too hectic which manhwa don't need to worry about.
3. Because manhwa scroll there is a different type of suspense. Manhwa like Horangs nightmare make great use of this by having the scroll slowly reveal a horror. Manga cannot do this due to the fact once you flip a page its open to your entire eyes but manhwa forces a scroll dripping you the visual data.
All in all while you do have some credibly points I feel like you should delve deeper into the medium instead of just discrediting it entirely. Art is made to grow and evolve and we as enjoyers of art should take the time to help foster and see the potential any new format may have.
I know you most likely will not see this but if you do I truly reccomend checking out Horangs Nightmare, Hellper, The Boxer and Annarasumanara as they really utilize the scroll format in such a way that could not be done through the manga format.
Yeah I was about to make a webtoon a year ago, but I realized how fucking limited that was, so I made a manga on Manga+ creators instead. Waaaaaaay better.
Edit: You still gotta scroll when you make a manga from left to right which I did. It’s fucking stupid, but there is a chance that will get updated hopefully.
What's the manga?
@@Takejiro24”HELLSHEART” Only 1 (60 page) chapter is out, but I plan on releasing 3 more this summer.
@@Takejiro24 TH-cam deleted my comment for some reason
The manga is “HELLSHEART” only one 60 page chapter is out, but I plan to release three more this summer.
@@Takejiro24 The manga is called "HeIIsheart" and there is only one 60 page chapter out, I plan to release three more in this summer.
@@casmachinaa5223 I'll check it out. Thanks for letting me know. 👍
Long strip is a popular format because everyone has a phone and people can enjoy it by just swiping down like TikTok, but it will be fucking painful if you're reading webtoon on your PC, I don't know how people reads long strip style comic in pc. I like the points you mentioned in the video and the limitation that artist try to break the long strip format is true but they don't innovate much compared to manga/comics due to the consumption method is just scrolling. when people meet storyline they thing it's boring or the fight scene is shit they just scroll that shit and skip pretty much the artist work. But I sometimes do enjoy how artist present their original story in a long strip format. Example they turn the scene horizontally to show how the beautiful scenery look or when the main character slash attack is like long as fuck and use the long strip format to show how much the terrain is damaged. I wish that this format will force artist to be more creative and use this format more effectively. Love the vid, if reading this is weird it's becuz my English is shit.
the mahwa industry is barely 30 years in compared to manga/comics who've been here for almost a century, ofcourse there's less innovation
@@Nishikant611That is true that's why I wish the webtoon industry would improve in the future since there's also some good webtoon hiding under most corporate slop.
@@xianyu_QAQThat's the same with every industry. I've been reading manga for over 20 years and oh boy have a read through some garbage. I'd say 90% of it is just not good. And if we only account for the last 3 years 99% of it is not good. I think people are just biased and only remember the good series from their favorite medium and forget about the 99% of dogshit out there.
Westerners also don't know that there are manga so dogshit that it never gets translated to English. Now think of the worst isekai trash you've read recently and imagine that there's something so much worse.
As someone with ADHD, seeing a long white void per image spikes my anxiety every time
When reading the csm manga for the first time, I was absolutelay thrown away by the sheer Detail the double spreads have. That feeling wasnt really there when continouing the online spreads
Paneling in manga vs webtoon : paneling is definitely important as it makes us to focus more on some parts and also text bubbles alignment but it's exactly because its manga like it has big history and mainly targeted for offline reader (physical copy) at its start so there are certain disciplines/formats established in its long run but manhwa/webtoon are meant to be digital (atleast at start but some popular ones make it to books) so it's obviously made to be read in vertical mode specially in mobile format
I think that's because webtoons are more recent. In the future maybe they'll get more creative with the format, that's how it works. Also yeah you can say that the majority of the artists don't take the format to the fullest but you can say that about traditional comics as well. A lot of mangas today ONLY use splash pages and boring paneling, but you can find some really creative stuff like The Maxx with it's "experimental panels" or Dororo using the panels to make a fourth wall breaking joke with Dororo literally breaking the design of the page, you don't see that too often, that's because the majority of the artists don't focus too much on these and use the "normal" ways.
Try Hellper
@@polimbo123 what's that?
@@pablohenrique3442 a webtoon, duh
Clicked the second I saw this. Peak is back.
I personally enjoy webtoons mainly because they allow you to add music to the comics, so it adds a different layer that traditional comics don't have. I do get your point about it not being as dynamic visually, but I still think they are pretty cool.
I've always hated webtoons despite some of them having stellar character design and interesting plot devices but never knew why and thanks to this video I now understand why I was never drawn to them (pun intended). It is like having to films but they fit everything into a vertical tiktok aspect ratio.
i can bear it since i feel like a lot of that output is traded in favor of coloring it all (it'd be simpler and easier). My big gripe is how a lot more tend to use the standard 3d shapes made in unity or blender as backgrounds for their 2d characters, like i thought we got this down pat with gantz in 2000
I honestly couldn't care less as long as I can read a somewhat interesting story
I wish there was some way to read webtoon, manga, comics, or any kind of graphic illustrated media like a book without spending too much money or effort just to read it.
Uhhh, you know how many sites there are where you click "next image" to show the next page? It's a pretty good substitude to buying a physical volume
金払え
That's the main reason i've fallen in love with the day we promised and lalin's curse
they have a really great use of colors and format that every panel feels unique
I personally don’t mind that panel stuff I like how it’s got longer panels and the only time I swipe through it really fast like you said is when they write 5 paragraphs about one ability
I agree with you man, reading solo levelling was really difficult than any manga I have read in my life because of its format.
well there's the physical version
@@derp_nuggetis it a scroll? 😂
@@HANIMEME Nah, but that would be funny.
@@HANIMEME lol
i actually loved reading solo leveling as the physical copy, so i wonder if this is a webtoon only issue? only backs up this guy's video i guess lol
It still baffles me that the quality of your videos isn't proportionate to your number of views/subscribers since your videos are always a treat to watch. Also, I hope the algorithm favors you in the coming months as I suspect it will, so keep it up!
Problem with webtoon is there are very few unique & innovative ideas. I still like the unique ones
To be fair webtoons have its own techniques impossible to do in book format and usually its about time flow.
I've seen chapter that had quite alongated scene that faded into white and then got a single line of text (I was at first like wtf did page not load or something but then it got into next scene and I was like whoa... webtoon actually made me feel pace, I felt like if watching and listening to animation at that moment)
And other creative use, don't remember exactly what was on scene but it "turned camera" in other direction.
There was also character consciousnes fading.
Its tool with its own uses. (and hurts my finger and mouse wheel by scrolling, I even added scrolling to buttons under thumb to save my finger)
Good uses of webtoon format probably aren't common cause its quite new format, artists didn't have time to experiment with it enough to do it as well as book format.
But there's one quite large drawback... how do you print that... scrolls? NGL having scrolls instead of books sounds cool. (and uncomfortably)
Well I both agree and disagree. It really depends on how the artists utilizes the medium. The comic brothers used to be this amazing movable comic wherein you scroll down and the characters zoom or do an action and it was freaking lit. But the artist had to change it cause users had issues and couldnt bother to download it first before reading so he had to make it static which basically lost the comics magic for many. Webtoon has a lot of issues other than formatting but its benefit of accessibility and giving a chance for many aspiring comic artists to reach more readers is whats keeping it alive.
I actually think if you know what you're doing. The scrolling format can work really well.
Bro i was shocked when you mention umibe no etranger, its my favourite manga 😭 and you sound so straight i dont know you read bl too
I'm denying his sexuality because i don't know him. Personally but straight people can read bl.
@@thatsauce882 yeah
I just read everything, i dont care if it's manga or webtoon, and i never got such a problem with none of them, and i think you just exaggerated in the title
My experience was wildly different, and I'm guessing it's gonna be pretty unpopular, but for me manga and comics often felt overwhelmingly cluttered, like too much stuff all at once (maybe related to ADD brain or something, idk), so discovering webtoons was really refreshing. I enjoyed the way webtoons control the pace you read at with negative space and create that illusion of timing almost like in animation. And ironically, although I get why you say they lead you to paying less attention to each drawing, for me it felt all the opposite. Instead of having my attention split between all the drawings in the page and not really stopping to look at each individual pannel properly, with webcomic it was like being spoon-fed the artworks one by one at just the right pace while giving me the time to focus my full attention on each one individually, which felt pretty good. Obviously they lose out on other things like complex page composition, as you mentioned, but I've come to appreciate it as its own medium separate from regular comics. It has different strengths, sacrifices certain things for others I guess?
As someone with ADHD as well I completely disagree lol
Webtoons that take advantage of the format make for awesome reading. Using the scrolling of a phone/PC to make it feel like the action is this dynamic flowing wave, like for a big attack or a high speed chase, are awesome uses of the format. There's definitely a lot of poorly laid out webtoons, but you can equally find poorly or boringly laid out manga as well.
im working on preproduction for a webcomic rn and im planning to shop around for somewhere that i can upload full pages rather than these panels. so that i can incorporate things like panel composition
the worst thing about webcomics is the long scrolling from panel to panel, i hate being flashbanged by long white strips before reading what's next
Webtoons/Manhwa are the fast food of comic books.
But they still are unique in there own way, but yeah i agree with you. But if i had to pick one it would be manga simply because the fight scean are more detailed in a unique way and the black and white i sometimes imagine its a impact frame that going on in my own head.
Kinda insulting of saying that when knowing that 1. you seem to be mixing manwha and webtoon, 2. People seem to forget the sheer majority of isekai existing
@@blero9089 Trash isekai is a minority of manga and no one reads those. Trash solo leveling-lite is the majority of webtoons and everyone reads those, that's the difference. I don't know which one is which, so i used both. Honestly, the fact that I have to look hard before I can find a well written webtoon says enough, cuz with manga i can just read top ten manga on mal and find new favorites lol
@@randomlurker7929 no actual reader reads those , people with brains exist lmao
Losers will always read trash isekai manga and system manhwas to self insert and that is predictable also there wouldn't be as many romcoms and isekai if people weren't reading them dude
Rn I could probably think of just as many good running manhwas as many good running mangas , it is just mangas have the start advantage lol (this is coming from someone who loves reading about everything and has 1000+ pics of mangas on his phone from how beautiful they are so I ain't biased lmao)
@@blero9089 yeah, but the amount of high quality mangas is just overwhelmingly higher compared to good manwhas
I would recommend reading one called Hellper it takes the format of webtoons and tries to take it in unique ways, like some parts actively tell you to scroll fast to simulate movement. Other webtoons do two page spreads by making you turn your phone vertically. Authors themselves are lacking the creativity to work around these constraints rather then being caged in by then.
I’m probably gonna get flamed for this but I disagree with the dialogue flow. As an artist, the way the dialogue is laid out is much better for me to both read and draw out personally. The dialogue in manga doesn’t flow for me like others, it gets me lost even sometimes. In the Webtoon format it’s such a simple way to follow the dialogue without going in zig zags and circles just to read it in the correct order, just seeing the red line he made to visually show the order felt like a clusterfuck. So this is one thing I can appreciate about it. Webtoons are a completely separate things from mangas though, they’re made to be portable and more accessible, so ofc they both have their limitations and at the end of the day it’s just preference on what you want to read and how
honestly, to each their own! i think that's a reasonable argument to make.
6:04 had me cracked up for some reason
It's called webtoon for a reason, it's not called booktoon. Maybe they can try to create a new format of manhwa/manhua that follow the traditional manga
Exactly
Manga can be read online and achieves the same effect as a physical book
Webtoons’ format just sucks
He's back! finally someone i can agree with, peak video btw
The speech bubbles breaching panel borders and slightly translucent speech bubbles isn't really unique to seaside travellers, I've seen it in most good mangas I've read. That being said, this was the exact issue I had with webtoons. Even though some of them have like, 80 whole pages per episode for some reason webtoons drag on and on. What takes a manga maybe, half a chapter or so, takes some webtoons like, 3 or 4 whole episodes, and manga chapters already have slower pacing compared to anime (though its still informationally dense), webtoons focus way too much on the art, specifically only on the character art, and sacrifices the information density achieved with nice paneling (not to mention, speech bubbles only cover up like, 2% of the panel or something and 90% of the time never exceeds 3 lines), and it would have been maybe acceptable if the art was good. It's not, its full of unity flip assets in the background, the characters and art style most of the time look indistinguishable from the art style of other webtoons, it's just not good.
I just watched Oshi no Ko Season 2 Episode 3 recently although I have read the chapter for that ages ago. Abiko and Yoriko missed sleep on a deadline and Yoriko was becoming unhealthy obsessing over the backgrounds. Watching that episode and then seeing a webtoon background it feels like a spit to the face of mangakas who work day and night in their meritocratic industry, especially those with far more polished art than more than half of whoever's doing webtoon illustrations yet somehow do not get into big publishers and never get their mangas realized. It fkg hurts, I don't want to hate on the webtoon artists, but it feels so unfair.
my suggestions from a person who had enjoyed webtoon over 10 years. (I only selected those available in webtoon english)
HELLPER (GOAT)
Guardian of the Video Games (GOAT)
Distant Sky (the original title in korea was 심연 meaning Abyss)
Island
A Mark Againt Thee
A Killer Paradox (GOAT)
Moon You
About Death (GOAT)
Hive
My Daughter is a Zombie
GOSU (GOAT)
Bastard
5:43 NEVERMORE MENTIONED RAHHHH
Interesting concept for a video topic
0:39 got me hooked
Your comments on the history of comics and the production of manga are quite imprecise and you don't end up even relating how webtoons affect the wider comics landscape. It kind of ends up feeling disjointed and an excuse to shit on webtoons for being different to what you like.
Which makes the backtracking at the end to say you dont hate them feel really weird and rings hollow. Especially when you just immediately shit on it afterwards. Just comes across cowardly.
Yes. He should not have held back at all. He didn’t even get into the awful, uninspired, derivative, insipid, “stories” of webtoon. Five or six stories a year that are decent out of a deluge of mediocrity is just sad.
@@geometerism9378 you accidentally summarized most of the manga. Both industries have blatant copies and works with horrible stories.
@@colgato5614 LOL your ignorance is really showing manga is a really diverse industry is not just the shonen manga and iseka you read before is not even close compared to webtoon who more similar to each other
Personally I think the main problem is the schedule. Like a lot of content apps, Webtoon expects you to crank this stuff out sometimes daily. Most artists simply aren’t given the proper time to experiment and push the visuals. Heck I even get emails from Webtoon saying “hey you haven’t posted yet” and I’m just one of the no-names on the Canvas tab! I can’t imagine the pressure the contracted artists are under to meet deadlines.
Webtoons on toilet paper would be a hit though! You can read the slices before you wipe with them 😂
HELPPP
Me simply just from reading the title: he’s right. Yes. Yes they are
Babe wake up, coggsie uploaded
Well it's about 🅓🅐🅜🅝 time, he finally did something
The idea that Devilman, Berserk and HxH are the same medium as K-On, Lucky Star and Rent-A-Girlfriend makes my skin crawl
I'd like to also add, vertical format has been around for 20-ish years. Compared to physical comics that had 100-ish years to nail the paneling.
Vertical format did inherit some good paneling conceptions from traitional comics so it isn't complete new start, but still it is fairly young.
I will be honest, the major issue I have with webtoons is the artstyle itself. It's so generic that I can never even tell if it's an actual different artist. When I read manga I can typically tell the artist like with Fujimoto (CSM), Nihei (Blame!), Araki (JoJo), Oshimi (Flowers of Evil), etc. etc. But I can barely name a few manhwa artist even though I consume manhwa almost equally. It all just looks the same to me (excluding a few like Hellper), I am not sure if anyone else has this issue.
Same Here. It is because they are all come from same factory.
@@user-gx9uv6qo3qwebtoons aren’t made in a factory? they’re each made by individual people
as an avid webtoon reader im ngl whenever I try reading a webtoon on a computer I want to kill myself because of how its formatted (unrelated but everyone should read the last dimension, hand jumper, marionetta, soulwinder, hellper, and the boxer)
These are ALL shit
I get what you're saying, but i feel like its more so the comunities lack of creativity than a limitation problem, cause if you look at webtoons like god of highschool, solo leveling, revenge of the sword clans bloodhound, eleceed, youll notice theyre whole thing is based around them using panelling, and overlaying, and wideshots with a mix of long scroll, action shots or transitions in a really good balance.
Meanwhile every webtoon that tries to copy them to the T utterly fails at this and cause hundreds of shity copies to pile up and make webtoons scroll format and storytelling look boring, lackluster, and way too overdone, now that i think about it leviathan's a great example too.
Hellper and hero killer too, there's a number of cool examples
Especially Hellper with it's "scroll fast" instructions from time to time
@@Russian_engineer_bmstuhellper I think it's the best action webtoon, so unique. it's a shame that we will never have the translation of the second season, knowing who manages the webtoon
@@polimbo123 yo, see my youtube handle? I didn't lie in it. So I do have a translation, on a gray resource