Thank you so much for watching, and if you are in the comments then I would appreciate any feedback or criticism (positive and negative!). I genuinely want to create a means of discourse and discussion and I implore you to engage with others as I have been trying my best to. I think that intentional, good faith discussion is the driving force for film and television and I love having the opportunity to hear your opinions even if you think im the dumbest person you have ever heard 😂 I am still early in my TH-cam journey and I have a long way to go before the content that I make is anywhere near the quality of some of the other amazing creators on this website! I also wrote an extensive rant within the description that is a little heart to heart from myself to you, explaining some of the behind the scenes facets of the channel. As I write this, we JUST hit 8,000 Subscribers (WHAT?!) and I am still blown away by the amount of support and love you guys have been showing me its unbelievable. Thank you so much again, and you will be hearing from me very soon ♥ - Zelly ( P.S. follow me on twitter twitter.com/ZellyJP )
I think you balanced the discussion well but ironically in your argument about comparing Boy and the Heron and Spiderverse the other nominees were left out entirely! Films like Nimona were pretty groundbreaking too that year and wouldve been interesting to hear that side of it too. And yes the Oscar disrespect of animation is the worst 🥲 but at least we have the Annies
@@animatedmelissa I thought about covering the other nominees, but my idea for this video was more focused on the "Robbery" between TBatH and ATSV. I came to the conclusion that covering all of them would have changed the video into something more along the lines of "Which Film Deserves the Oscar" and that just wasnt as interesting to me, and I dont think people care about my opinion enough just yet to watch that video 😂 But you are right, the other films nominated were amaaazzingggg as well
I find it incredibly ironic that you praise this film for having breathtaking animation and being a love letter to the medium, while using ugly, interpolated footage of it that completely ruins your point.
Sure, here's some feedback - while I think the points you made and your narration were great, the visual editing needs some serious work. It got a little tiring seeing the same few clips for The Boy and the Heron played on loop over and over, when you could have broken these up with either other clips, or bits of text and graphics to accentuate your point (for a good example on an interesting way to do this, check out AL the Boi, love the editing on that channel). And, on the topic of those Boy and the Heron clips, as another said - it's very ironic that you praise the film for it's amazing animation, and specifically point out the fact that Hayao Miyazaki has *condemned* AI, comparing it to an insult to *life itself* - and yet, you are USING AI interpolated clips in the video. It's just gross.
It’s wild how people fail to realize that The Boy and the Heron’s win is such a massive deal due to the fact that it is the first adult animated film to take home the Best Animated Feature award, which shows that animated films don’t have to be made for children, and can engulf adults into captivating worlds with intricate stories. 🔥
Exactly what I thought as well. I immediately recognized that this movie was not made for kids to understand or to even grasp. Its so esoteric in its design that if you dont have life experience to compare and contrast to the film its hard to recognize whats even going on. Masterful work it still blows my mind
As if Nimona wasn’t both an adult and children movie….Nimona got robbed. I’m a big Miyazaki fan, but this movie didn’t deserve to win, and wasn’t even half as good as any other of his works
Oddly enough my 6 year old enjoys The Boy and The Heron. Fun fact: it was the equivalent of a “PG” in other countries and I think it could have been rated PG. It’s not nearly as bloody as Princess Mononoke.
"spiderman is a wagiu steak in a michelin restaurant while the boy and the heron is a meal your parents or grandparents cooked" I love this comparison, reminds me of ratatouille where Anton Ego fell in love with Remy's cooking not because it was some fancy food but simply because it tasted like home.
So it's all about nostalgia? Honestly, to me the movie was so mid, I think people liked it because it felt similar to older Ghibli films, except it's not as good, they're repeating the same formula that made those movies great. I think they gave the oscar to Miyazaki for his career, rather than to the movie itself. Meanwhile Spiderverse actually did something unique and amazing, but the Oscars hate sequels I guess.
Spider-Man is not a wagyu steak lmao it’s a McDouble, maybe a Big Mac. Franchise slop marketed to the widest possible audience, and totally forgettable after consuming.
we, the people are robbed every year by the academy forcing "animated film" into its own category, as if the entire medium is a single genre. We're robbed every time that only one film is allowed to get the award for an entire medium, and beautiful works of art are unnecessarily shunted because there can only be one "winner" for the whole art form.
Yes, the approach of the academy borders on manipulation. The year 1999 had 31 animated movies released to theaters, for example: Disney's Tarzan, Ghibli's My Neighbours the Yamadas, Warner's The Iron Giant; and Production I.G.'s Jin-Roh the wolf brigade. ...Now I see that the Animated Feature category of the Oscar's was only introduced in 2001. If you look up the whole list of Academy Award for Best Animated Feature on wikipedia it's also obvious to animation interested people that the most movies selected are aimed at children/family (The second constriction made by the academy.)
Even better if they're spread over many genres/categories the normal movies usually got nominated on. Adult, children, women, men, teen, family, education, fantasy, horror, war, etc. You know what? Make a once every five-year international award event or programme just for animations and divide them also by medium used (stop motion, 2D, 3D) and what entity (indie, small/short project, school/college entries, big studio productions, seasonal competition, personal...), whether they're movies or tv series, classics or modern (pre or post 2000)... and then there are awards for best studio, best art style, best storyboard, best voice/model, best set/bg/world setting, best character designs, best storyline, best script/dialogues, best fx, best music score, best choreography, etc etc. Just for the animation industry. Straight up international so every country can participate that every five year or so.
Honestly, I really hate it when people don't take animation seriously. Animation can deliver stories that are just as great as those of live-action movies. In fact, the shows that were the most thought-provoking to me and made me appreciate life more were anime shows, which include Sousou no Frieren, Mob Psycho 100, and Violet Evergarden. I too hope that animation gets more categories.
Animation, shouldn't be a category imo. If it is as good as any live action movie then it should stand proud amongst them in the same categories they have.
I agree! Even Walt Disney himself believed that, too! He even quoted, "Animation offers a medium of storytelling and visual entertainment which can bring pleasure and information to people of all ages everywhere in the world".
@@Mik-kv8xx Tho that's like saying there shouldn't be any categories at all, and only have just one award. Which devalues the point of highlighting the need to show how varied the medium can actually be. Altho, which also make you beg the question if there should be an award ceremony.
“Animation is for kids!” I guess its alright for 8 year old timmy to watch the masterpiece that is end of evangelion, a film that definitely doesn’t kill a lot of people and contain imagery not suitable for anyone under the age of 17
I lost my dad last year, a week before Spiderverse came out. It was heavy and emotional for me to watch the relationships between Gwen and Miles' and their dads. After a few months, I started to feel some semblance of "normal" returning to my life. Then, The Boy and the Heron came out. That film dug deep and literally had me in tears at so many parts in the film. It had themes of losing a parent, and if you had just one more day with someone you love, what you say, what would you do with them. It was actually a very healing experience for me.
When people say "every frame a painting" this is the kind of movie they are refering to. I'm affraid the world at large will leave something important behind when the grumpy old man will go. He's pretty much the only internationally recognised name that strive to maintain the old ways and his artistry will probably die with him, and I don't find that a comforting prospect...
@@kingace6186 Was I the comment you intended to respond to? Because I fail to see how what you said has anything to do with the points I brought up. Anyways, it's fine to praise one or the other, but you seem to fall into the category of "mine's better because I like it more". They were both good movies, and any compliment towards one is not made to the detriment of the other.
@@rain4825 he's saying that Miyazaki isn't the only one who can make high quality animations and that there are others who will still continue in the same path as him, so hop off his dick.
@@ZellyJP I think voters hesitate voting for second films in trilogies. It wasn’t until Return of the King that the Oscars lavished awards for lord of the rings.
@@Ivyrigs Being structured in 3 acts doesn't suffice to make it complete I'm affraid. Without going into a long essay on everything in the movie, my biggest point against it would be that it loads a dozen tchekov rifle but only fires three or four by the end. I really liked it, mind you, but it's painfully obvious that it set up a sequel when you reach the credits and you're like "huh?". The abrupt end that cut you off mid climax comes as a cold shower when no conflict in the story has been resolved, and the tension is at its maximum. For all the greats things about it it left us hanging in the end.
yk what pisses me off the most? The fact that people who did not even watch the boy and the heron say that spiderman should have won and don't simply appreciate how great both movies are. Animation is before anything else made to convey a certain message which some people seem to miss. And the worst part of it all is that exactly those people are the loudest.
Honestly, I’m just grateful that this year’s most promising nominees were pretty much win-win situations. The Boy and the Heron or Across the Spider-verse, either of them winning was a win for animation, and I’m just glad it was so.
Yeah. People complaining about their favourite movie not winning. When this year was one of the strongest ever for animation in Years. I still remember the years when movies like Boss Baby were nominated. The only think I had a little bit of an issue with was that the Academy didn't nominate Suzume. It's like they have a rule that they can only take one animated film from Japan and it can only be a Ghibli film.
@@person2795really, WISH, got NoMiNATeD, shows how people shouldn’t be fighting at themselves over which movie is “better”, but seeing the true nature of the Oscar’s nowadays..
When I was younger, in my teens, I had an interaction with an elderly man. I’d known him for many years through my grandmother but I never really talked to him all that much or anything so it’s not like we were close. I was sitting down just playing some music on my phone while I was around a campfire and I eventually played Over the Rainbow. I’m casually starting the song then I hear a faint “somewhere over the rainbow, way up high”. It was the old man on the chair across from me singing along to the song. It was quiet and peaceful and extremely eye opening for me, someone who was younger and thought the world revolved around me. This moment reminded me that the world around me was real and the experiences of others around me were valid. The Boy and the Heron reminds me of that moment. Hayao Miyazaki did for the rest of the world what that old man did for me, provided a reminder that the world is alive, quiet, and powerful if you pay attention.
There's a japanese movie from 1952 that was just remade called "Ikiru" (or "Living"), you should watch it. it's about an old man singing gingerly as he copes with dying and the legacy he may or may not leave upon the world and upon the people in his life. Your story reminded me of it.
You forgot to mention how the film also adresses Miyazaki's conflict with his own son who hasnt received recognition also as an animator... Awards are subjective and the whole Academy system is broken down. Miyazaki winning is one those rare "worthy wins", because a lot of the times it comes down to politics, popularity, or simply luck. I love both movies an I wish both could have won. Period. Great video!! Thanx!!!
Oh 100% ! It was in my script to begin with but in full transparency I dont think i was skilled enough as a writer just yet to manage to fit it in while maintaining the pace of how the video is right now. I cut out a solid 3-5 minutes off this video that I wasnt able to fit in while maintaining flow and pacing.
Also, the Academy members, previously interviewed, don't take animation seriously, might not even watch the nominee, and vote for Disney as a safe bet. It's surprising The Boy and The Heron managed to reach enough of them.
I'm happy Ghibli won, but ATSV should've atleast been nominated for its music and editing. Grouping all the animated features into one category is so stupidly disrespectful towards the craft. They should try and expand it more by incorporating new awards Pinning Boy&Heron against ATSV is unfair as both films are exceptional in their own right. Not one is better than the other. Personally i am so happy Boy&Heron won as it ushered my local theatres to finally show it, and i got to see it on the big screen. It was worth the wait!!!
A tad bit biased because I'm a huge Miyazaki fan, but I honestly don't really understand why people are so pissed that TBATH won. I mean yeah, if you're like a die-hard Spiderverse fan, I can see where you're coming from, but this is the first time in over two decades a movie like THIS has won. Come on, give em some credit. And yes, both movies were absolutely phenomenal and beautifully made in their respective ways, but I mean still... Edit: Should I have not made this comment? Sorry if thats the case
Superhero fans an Anime fans are extremely similar in a lot of ways. The most poignant being they both think their "thing" is the best thing to every exist and everyone should love it. AND if you dont LOVE it, youre wrong and most likely dumb 😂😂
@@ZellyJP I think I'm like you and, since I enjoy both anime and superheroes, it'd be tough for me to pick between the two! Loved your end take. Animation needs more recognition and respect in the West! Hopefully both these films are helping to achieve that.
As someone who greatly prefer across the spiderverse, I will say I think the boy and the heron winning was probably better for the industry as a whole, as well as it’s acclaim and success. I have my personal issues with it, but it is so clear it was made by extremely talented people with so much love and care infused into it, and I also think the fact that this is the first 2D animated movie to win since spirited away in 2002, and as a send off to the man who made some of the best animated films to date, I think the win was well deserved, even if I prefer spiderverse.
Across the spiderverse was great I loved it for its characters, backgrounds, it looks like a comic in motion. Miyazaki takes me by the hand and sets a journey. In it I’m 12 years old again vulnerable, furious at the world for its cruelty. In the end I’m deep in my own emotions, and he’s there saying, “Are you happy to be alive?”
Spiderverse is a beautiful film with its fusion of 3D animation + traditional comic + oil paintings and the scene with Gwen and her dad really hits home but I mean, TBATH is an otherworldly experience. Its unlike anything I've ever seen before. Like you said, its like the viewer is going on a journey, i felt my entire life flash before my eyes. It definitely deserved the award over Spiderverse.
The characters in question: - Depressive spider man wannabe's - Miles Morales - Hobie Brown - Pavitr Prabhakar - Margo Kess - Peter B Parker - An irish-mexican humanoid spider with anger issues and LTG of the Spiderverse.
When we were kids, my father stumbled on Miyazaki at the local video rental, and for a while that was all that we watched (we didn’t have cable TV, so when I say it was all that we watched-I mean all). We owned Nausicaa on dvd and i must have seen that film over 100 times, so much that the disc was basically unreadable at some point. I rewatched the movies about 10 years later in my mid twenties to introduce them to a friend, and it hit me, as an adult, how much the films had shaped me as a child. As in, I’m fairly certain Miyazaki’s films laid the blueprint for all of my moral philosophy, my hierarchy of values, my ideals, etc, and it hit me as an adult that how my relationship to Miyazaki’s oeuvre was nearly religious. When I saw the Boy and the Heron I saw it with that same friend who was introduced to Miyazaki in their twenties, and they were pretty confused. During the credits they wanted to start analyzing what had just happened, but I couldn’t because I just started crying. The film felt like such a gift, something made just for me. It spoke in a language that I had learnt as a child, and could follow intuitively. I knew every frame as if I had seen it a thousand times, yet it felt like unpacking an entirely new present. A whole new world, one that said “i have given you everything that I have to give, but now i am old, and tired, and full of mistakes. All things must change.” It was so perfect. I saw it again with my sister a week later and my roommate, and she had the same reaction as I did. The roommate was confused-he could tell there was a lot going on in the movie that he wasn’t catching, but my sister had the exact same reaction that i did. She just started crying.
You described my own experience. I went alone, because I knew few of my friends or family would really understand and appreciate. My childhood was pretty much just like yours, with Nausicaa, Mononoke Hime, Porco Rosso, Laputa... It shaped many of my world views. I'm just grateful. Sometimes that means being sad, too.
Seeing people dismiss Boy and the Herons animation as less complex or impressive than ATSV honestly hurts. I'm as excited as anyone for the boundaries ATSV pushed for CGI and digital animation techniques, but BATH let us see what hand-drawn animated features could be today had they not been largely replaced by CGI. BATH isn't flashy but it shines in the mastery of the principles of animation, which makes the bedrock ASTV builds on, and BATH did it better than perhaps anyone ever has.
Its still a generic story about grief(not to say it is a bad story, just that the concept of coming to terms with grief is not groundbreaking or original)
@toasterowens8916 If you’re going that way, ATSV is another generic multiverse story. Don’t undermine a story because the premise has been used already; what matters is how it’s handled. Both movies handled their common troupes masterfully
@@MetaGiga spider verse is a continuation of a movie that kicked off the multiverse craze, don't be ignorant. I like both movies, but people are acting like tbath is God's gift to earth just because it's studio Ghibli
Across the Spiderverse has been 10 years in the making (combining with the beginning of preprod of Into) How Do You Live is the crystallisation of the work of a lifetime. The lifetime of the greatest animation film director of all time. Simple as that.
Totally agree. You can see Miyazaki's personal evolution from film to film, and this one was his biggest leap yet: throwing all of his consciousness into it in a way that only someone with his experience could without ruining the core themes of the film. Just like his thought process, it seems like the film is completely fluid in its representation of themes and ideas in a way that is much more prevalent than in his other films. I loved ATSV but to me it's more like a really well executed movie, while TBATH is a point of artistic culmination from one of the greatest artists to ever roam this earth.
What are you saying? I mean time makes a good movie but what if it's just another u know same parents die and stuff like most or all spiderman movies..
Totally agree: Across the Spiderverse was a really good movie made capably but its inexperience in contrast to the fluid storytelling we see in The boy and the Heron is palpable. To me it seems like Miyazaki, more than ever, threw his entire subconscious into this movie in a way that allows it to freely express its concepts without the restraints of storytelling conventions. It just feels so sincere and emotional in LITERALLY every stroke of paint and every note of the music, and it feels like every element is up to interpretation, not guiding you through a story, but instead allowing you to understand it in accordance to your own experiences. It was hard for me as well to justify why I liked TBATH more than ATS, but ultimately, I think that one is clearly more masterful and meaningful in its entirety, while the other develops a sub-genre into a really well-told story.
@@vic85667Yeah, I'll be the first to agree that to a contemporary audience, the amazingly detailed and raw animation of ATSV is much more appealing. Still think both are equally commendable for their animation. Each movie represents what it wants to with creativity and visual emotion, plus incredible skill in different ways.
@@youraveragepersonwalkingth6850 I think people thought it was gonna win because it’s clear. Like I’m sorry I love Miyazaki but genuinely when I was a kid I could enjoy his movies because they were pretty and cute but now that I’m older like I need to have other people explained to me what the fuck I’m watching because it doesn’t really make any sense. I watched the whole movie and the first time I came out and I had no clue what I just watched. I couldn’t comprehend story I couldn’t understand the meaning behind. It didn’t really make sense to me and I think a lot of people came out of the movie like that, and of course, the movie that they came out of being so awed by that they did understand in terms of into the spider verse was the one that they gravitated towards. I also want to take into account cultural context personally I’m black I find that I connect to some of the story of into and across the spider verse more think because of that cultural connection so some of us we get across the spider verse better we like it and we wanted it to win you know
Not only is the Boy and the Heron an adult animated film winning an oscar, but also a 2D animated film winning an oscar, two styles of film completely written off by modern Hollywood winning the biggest award an animated film can win, an it did it in a year where in other years, pretty much any other nominee for best animated picture could've easily won. The academy expected the Boy and the Heron to be great and Spiderverse to be spectacular, but in the end both films were spectacular, and the award was given to the film that had to fight so many expectations of it in order to be recognized
I like how everyone waxes poetic about the "significance" of the film. But the fact of the matter is, the only reason it won is because its Miyazaki's last film If this exact movie was made by someone else, it wouldnt even get nominated
@@melvinjoseph952 While the film is very deserving the award, there’s definitely truth to what you’re saying, as if it was directed by, say, Isao Takahata or Satoshi Kon (obviously, they passed away, but stay with me), then The Boy and the Heron likely would’ve lost. Miyazaki is a beloved and respected director, so his name being attached to the project is most likely why it won.
@@melvinjoseph952 you say "last" film like that shit means anything for the old man. the guy has been coming out of retirement after making his "last" film so many times by now, it feels like a running gag.
@@melvinjoseph952 Bro, he's had like 3 "last films". In fact, immediately after this movie did so well in theaters, Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli went into talks about future films he still wanted to make. I feel they just call it his "last film" every time because he constantly gets frustrated by the state animation is in in Japan and wants to give up but wakes up the next day like "I want to make a movie about a cat bus."
I think both are very deserving of the award but for different reasons, and I think which ever one you think should win comes down to this Spider-Man: the pinical of modern animation. This movie is setting the gold standard for all 3D animation moving forward. This movie is a real step forward in the technology of 3D animation and its potential. Boy and the heron: the last bastion of a largely overlooked medium and style. The industry has been rapidly moving into 3D for years now, and every year that goes by 2D seems like a thing of the past. This movie reminds us of why we love animation. This movie reminds us that 2D will never be obsolete. It reminds us of how much value the medium of 2D animation has, and pleads with us to not let it be forgotten in the future. In summary, Spider-Man points to the future, and the boy and the heron points to the path. Both opinions are incredibly valid in my eyes, and further shows why animation needs more categories.
good video, i just suggest rewatching the “insult to life itself” clip again. He was referring to how machine learning 3D models learning to walk shouldn’t be used as a reference for drawing “creepy things” because it reminds him of disabled friends he has, and felt it was dehumanizing.
It literally refers to the dehumanizing part that reminded him of his disabled friend in which he literally said it. It can also refer to the next scene in that very same context wherein the producer Mr. Suzuki asked what their goal is and they answered "They want to build a machine that can draw pictures like humans do" and Miyazaki certainly didn't like that statement, and he even goes to say "I feel like we are nearing the end of times. We humans are losing faith in ourselves" so in context, it can refer to both.
Having watched both films in theatres, I think the difference, for me at least, was that even though The Boy and the Heron has such fantastical imagery, it also felt so personal and real, it felt like a fairy tale of the heart, a living story told just for me, where everyone in the audience could take a different massage away from the film, their message, their little secret shared only with the animation. Spider-Verse was incredible, genuinely phenomenal, but, despite having incredible characters with depth and really amazing arcs, it was also meant to show things that were beyond human, super-human, and that was the point of it, writing an amazing, greater-than-life story about superheroes, it was delightful to watch. Still, that delight felt universal, everyone understood every line with the same meaning, it was made to connect people, and it did fantastically, but it lacked the calm, introspection, interpretation, and contemplation that The Boy and the Heron brought to me.
While I think the more deserving film won in the end, I think it's an accident and not indicative of the Academy taking any kind of interest in the medium. The fact of the matter is that the first Spiderverse movie won in the past and the Academy is apprehensive about awarding best feature to movies in the middle of a series (i.e. where the story is incomplete and a sequel is guaranteed). Miyazaki was a recognized enough name to push his film over the other offerings that the majority of Academy likely hadn't bothered to watch. Most years the award aligns with whoever topped the box office, though. 15 out of 24 have gone to Disney or Pixar. We've just been fortunate the last couple years the Disney offerings have either been controversial or mediocre, allowing someone else to take home the award. Still, I get the impression the winner this year was determined by name recognition rather than an appreciation for the craft.
I can see what you mean, but in my completely irrelevant opinion, the hand drawn animation of TBatH was more impressive to me personally. And that is 100% just personal bias I am fully aware 😂 Im just glad disney and pixar werent rewarded for mediocrity
Oh totally agree that it probably was just bias. The conversation around this should be more about "which movie I like more" than "which movie should have won the Oscar", and even then it's still a bit dumb.
@@marcelinepink For the individual, maybe, but we're talking about winning an Oscar and it's kind of sad that the criteria for winning an Oscar in animation is completely different from winning in live action film. The Academy generally stands for artistry and craft in filmmaking, except for where the animated features are concerned. They need to really change how the voting works. There is no requirement to see all the movies in a category or even any of them to vote. When the majority of members aren't in the animation industry or have any interest in it, you get a lot of people voting based entirely on what they recognize or what movies their kids dragged them to. There's very little of the scrutiny they give the live action films and shows their disdain for animation as a medium.
@@adseigo Oh yeah I knew about the whole "not having to watch all the nominees" thing. That's a whole other disgusting can of worms that I wish people talked about more often. It's clear that they don't take cinema seriously just in general.
0:19 - That's not what he was doing there. He was at a demonstration where someone was presenting a CGI animation of a humanlike creature with very deformed arms crawling around on the ground and they were pitching the program as useful for horror themed animation. Miyazaki instead noted that he has a friend who is similarly deformed and admonished the presenter's proposal. That was a great moment that showed that Miyazaki is always making the human connection.
there is a new viral video using this old video reference , and saying he talks about AI, but the original video was from some 10 yrs ago some animation studio showing some dead/zombie creature animation...they took it out of context.. Has nothing to do with Ai and more about letting the computer just jiggle/random movement without purpose...looks 'terrific' in a real time video game.. or so it was supposed to be but in animation just looks like cheap and random.. just like these lifeless animations on 3D fighting games.. with no soul and just 'mapped' to characters..
Agreed. Miyazaki wasn't horrified at AI (or at least he didn't voice his concerns at that moment) but instead at the fact that the CGI designers chose to show him a really out-of-place procedural zombie animation that he clearly wasn't going to be interested in the technology of. Miyazaki looked right past through the tech, and saw a zombie animation. He voiced his opinion, and left. His worry about technology is completely separate, and in his movies he has never voiced any kind of anti-innovation message.
Honestly, after the awards, we could be heading in the right direction. There is now a demand from the majority of people for more animated films for more adults or for more art styles and original stories. The progress is going to be a bit slow, but as both Millennials and Zoomers, including Gen Alpha, get older, we'll be able to make these changes happen faster.
I think so. I guarantee you that The Boy and the Heron will not be the least adult animated film to win the Best Animated Feature Oscar, as The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim, which is releasing this December, is more than likely to win 2025’s Best Animated Feature Oscar, which would make it the second adult animated feature to win the award, right after the first, mind you, and the first non-Ghibli film to do so, which is also a win for international animated feature, in general. We are heading into a new age of animation, and I think it’ll happen sooner than we think.
I’m a Spider-Man fan boy and even I could tell Spider-verse wasn’t going to win not because it’s a sequel but it’s because the it’s only the first two acts of a story. Essentially it’s not a complete movie and we’re waiting for Beyond to come out to complete it
I feel like the second film wasn't as strong as the first in its pacing and storytelling. It's still an incredible film but definitely felt like the awkward middle film. I'm excited though for the last one and will be seated 🎉.
@@juliawidmaier5334Bruv, you sound stupid. People like you throw me into a complete daze, mf’s never watched a film with a “to be continued” 😂😂😂. Empire Strikes Back was the most obvious comparison that was made in articles. Doesn’t make the film less worthy whatsoever. It just comes down to preference.
The boy and the heron may not have the super mega powerhouse animation like spiderverse, but it doesn’t need to. It tells a much more personal and deeper story that left an impact on me. It feels like a manifestation of his soul accepting that his time is running out. I really like his attitude of not giving a fuck. Even not showing up to the oscars and still winning lol.
7:24 It's like you go to a very fancy and expensive restaurant for a date with your crush. You go in with the armamentarium of your clothes, makeup, jewellery, jokes and charms. And then the main course is your mom's signature food, just the way she prepared, the mother you lost such a long time ago. You came here prepared for a battle and yet you got the warmest kiss.
I watched both Spiderman was such a cool movie and got me excited for a 3rd part But...I watched Boy and the Heron with my mom and after the movie was over She told me "when I past away remember to keep going forward" I fear the day my mom is no longer with me and a simple movie move all those feelings for me and her. Thats how Deep the boy and the Heron went
Another person (here on TH-cam I think) actually said that a part of the reason might've been that Across the Spider-verse, as a story, can only be understood if you watched the prequel beforehand. Boy and the Heron on the other hand has a story that can stand on its own.
I don’t really think that’s the case, especially since they loosely retell the events of the first film, early on, but I get what they mean, as The Boy and the Heron requires no prior knowledge to enjoy it, while Spidey encourages you to have a grasp of Miles story prior to the new movie.
This has always been the case with oscars they mostly like to give awards to a complete story rather than incomplete once like if the movie has a prequel or a sequal, which in this case both are true. But still beyond the perspective of oscars spiderverse though not conclusive still feels as personal as TBATH. If TBATH is about lose and grieving spiderverse is about not accepting the fate and rising above even if the word has already set it's course, it gives me strength and courage. People will feel different about both of these movies based on what of life they are in, but both of them are equally good. It giving us all that one expects from them.
I think the boy and the heron adds alot more context if you had enjoyed/watched other Miyazaki pieces. It's like a final farewell documentary pitched in his art form. It incorporates bits of every Miyazaki feature throughout the movie, including the end where the 13 blocks he is balancing and trying to add one more is a metaphor for the movies he has made. Overall, he describes the turmoil and process he/ghibli had as a creator by building this one final world that collapses back into normality. He says people will forget over time and that's not a bad thing (acceptance) as the protagonist carries that one block, a memory, which he is told is considerably weaker. It's up to him to do something with it (all of us). In a way he is saying farewell and passing on the memories and the future to us. This goes very deep for the millions of fans of Miyazaki's previous works. Even the abrupt ending points towards this; that the story continues on with us. It's a beautiful meaningful letter that he has addressed to his fans that maybe will get forgotten over time and that's okay
Something worth noting is how much more impactful the writing is for TBATH vs ATSV. I remember after walking out of the theatre for Spiderverse talking with my bf about how the main story itself felt childish and that the writers would have to be very careful in the next movie with what happens bc it could fall into a lot of traps and how neither of us really knew if they could do that. This is because both Miles and Miguel's stances felt wrong but we as the audience felt that we are supposed to pick just one and because the ending is a cliff hanger we dont know how the story will reconcile that. It sparks thinking about itself and theories while dealing with the themes of grief, responsibility, and control. Most of the emotions of the film are there to provide quick catharsis for the audience but once the movie is over, it is over, generally. TBATH on the other hand was very confusing the first time I watched it. It felt like a journey through the subconscious and that was difficult to follow and understand accompanied by sweeping scenes and animation. I walked out of the theater thinking, idk what happened but it was beautiful and i need to figure it out. And after weeks of thinking and processing in my mind consciously and unconsciously, I understood it. Its a film that sticks with you and that you have to take your time to process. That is why to me it deserves the win. It is a film that forces you to think not just about what will happen next or theories about the world; TBATH make you think about life, death, grief, creation, and your own life. How do you live?
Excellent video man. Watched Boy and the Heron recently and I loved it too. I do find it to be an extremely pure and personal work that already feels timeless, in a way that spider verse doesn’t. That movie is awesome too but it’s very meta and self aware. Different feel.
Having watched both, I can say that I enjoyed Spiderverse more during both movies' theater screenings and is still my favorite of the two. But I'm also a huge ghibli fan and I remember the first time watching boy and the heron in theater. I thought it was just "okay" relative to other Miyazaki works at the time. But for some reason it stayed in my mind in a way spiderverse didn't for several days. I kept thinking about how the main character processed his grief and how it affected him and the new people in his life. And it had me thinking about my own life as well lol. Which is why the Japanese title seemed so apt compared to the english one. The title in Japanese is 君たちはどう生きるか？ which roughly translates to "How do you live?" which was a major theme in the movie. Even compared to other Miyazaki works, there was SO much symbolism and definitely encapsulated the idea of "show, don't tell". It's one of those movies where it gets immensely better on second rewatch. And I can see why it lead to an oscar win over spiderverse. They eat this stuff up 100%.
As someone who follows the awards, here’s a bit of insight into the process. Before the Oscars there are precursor ceremonies that people could follow to predict the winners, the major being Golden Globes, Critics Choice, BAFTA, and the Guilds (unions). Golden Globes recently had a major overhaul to make their voting body more international and their picks for this year were very inspired - including nominating both ATSV and Heron in Score (they lost to Oppenheimer but nobody was beating that score). And in Animated - Boy and the Heron won, which kind of started the notion that international voters liked that movie more. Spider Verse would go on to win the more domestic-heavy awards like Critics Choice, the Producers Guild and the Annie Awards - but the BAFTAs, a UK-based international body went for Heron. And since the Oscars take in more international people for the voting body every year, it makes sense that Heron won in the end. Also to add, respect for Animated at the Oscars still has a long way - the fact that both films didn’t get any Score or above the line categories at the Oscars is criminal.
It’s insanely refreshing to see others who have such a deep admiration and love for animation and its abilities to reflect the human condition. Fantastic video, keep up the great work!!!
There are many ways I could tackle this conversation but I believe the reason Kimitachi wa dou ikiru ka? won over spiderman is because Across the spiderverse, is a product while Kimitachi wa dou ikiru ka? is art.
the film, the progression of the story, and it has INCREDIBLE AND IMPRESSIVE ANIMATION too! Suddenly they forget how experimental and artistic this movie also is with the different techniques and colors used throughout the different dimensions. The score I think plays a more important role and is more memorable than in The Boy and The Heron, while also having way more really emotional moments between the characters.
Damn, I saw your first episode the day it came out. I remember TH-cam recommending it to me and me liking how you structured your video. So many new TH-camrs I've seen that and I've subbed . You are one of the few who have continued making videos . The quality is amazing, hope your channel gets more traction!
thank you so much 😭 I really love making videos, and im so happy with how this one turned out. I just need to upload more so people dont forget me inbetween every upload 😂
Even though I can agree with the thought, spiderverse did the same for me it gave me strength to not just accept the fate no matter how many people around you have given up. The feel of lose is not like a worse feeling or anything, but I won't give one more respect than the other and if that part is clear for me spiderverse was a more deserving from me, and for me gibili is the fancy product that people say will make me feel complete but, I am fine with the sting I need. It's sort of hard to put it into words I am not doing a great job at it lol. But sometimes I don't like too much ambiguity and symbolism and hidden meaning, sometimes it's better to just cry. It can still be very personal with just that.
The movie is master piece for a person who has the same situation with Mahito like me. I lost my mother when I was young too and the word Acceptance is really really powerful. Took me 13 years to recognize that after my mother dead. The scene when he ran through the burning town the way it depicted is so real that it brought me back to the moment I ran all the steps upstairs to see my Mom one last time. The note the Mother left in the book for him, my Mom did the same thing too. Every single books she bought us she left a note at the first page. When I accepted and moved on and let my Mother go, I recognized she is closer to me than ever. She is part me or in another word I am a continual of her and the proud legacy that she left on this world and things will go on and my children will be her masterpiece and legacy too.
I’d find myself, on several occasions, with tears in my eyes while watching The Boy and The Heron, not because of any obviously sad scenes, but because the movie just had that much emotional effect on me. While viewing, I didn’t really know why I’d be crying, but now I think it’s likely because the story is just so intensely human
Literally how apart from expressing he thought what we loved and played a huge role in should’ve won? Not like he tweeted “fuck that old man” he just said “robed” (😭)
@@namesrowan3288 because if he had any respect for Miyazaki's legacy he would have fully understood that they were not robbed of the win. The producer understood that they lost to a legend, but for the actor to say they were robbed is discrediting Miyazaki.
Tbh I think ATSV would have won if The Boy and the Heron wasn’t Miyazaki’s (supposedly) last film. the judges probably wanted to honor him one last time if he doesn’t get the chance to make another movie which is understandable. I don’t mind TBatH winning either way, it’s always nice to see non-3d and non-Western stuff getting attention (ATSV should have been at least nominated for Best Score though… your point about animation never getting recognition at the Oscars outside of its designated "kid's table" category is so true.)
thats how I felt as well. Im glad that TBatH won, but if spiderverse won it would have been awesome as well. But there in lies the core issue is that both should have won something!
Ok, so story from my experience. When i told my movie school teacher, about the whole "last movie" thing, she was appalled by my words, as she that tBatH is the obvious winner as it is most adult one, and then said "Then what else would've won? Across the spiderverse?". She has a background in movie criticism, but her words genuinely angered me. Because, despite there are sometimes being obvious Oscar winners, every movie that has gotten to the finals got merit, or why else it is there. And since when we are judging animation by how "adult" it is. The medium of animation is all about expression, and thereby, it is more emotionally fuelled. Not like i don't agree that Miyazaki's work was stronger, but she said it in a way, as if Across the spider verse was another one of those generic CGI cartoons.
This whole thing made me think, based on does the academy judge which movie is better? Because animation isn't only it's story, but also the craft that went into it. Unlike in movies, there is no dedicated nominations for animation story and animation(as in process). Looking at past Oscar's nominees, i guess the winners are usually ones with the best package of both, but the whole list is the epitomy of robbed.
I watched it in theaters in the month of its release in my country. It's the last show of the day and after it, the mall will be closing. There were less than 20 viewers at that time and most of us are in our 20s-30s. Some even look like they just got off from work then immediately went to the theaters, just like me. The Pelican scene from The Boy and The Heron is what caught me the most. The Old Pelican said along the lines of, "It is not our war but they made us fight for it" as it splutters blood out of its mouth and the life in their eyes slowly fades away. Miyazaki is well-known for his opposition to war, hence that Old Pelican scene but me, a young-adult in his 20s who is burned out from work to finance my college studies, got a different perspective on it. That I should not be confined within the limits of what I should do now in order to succeed in the future. That one should live in the moment in order to appreciate the success of the future. For if I will be a prisoner of my own soul-decaying effort to preserve my future self, all of it will be in vain once I reach that promised destination.
First time I watched this movie in theater, I could really tell just how much this movie meant for Miyazaki. Like you said, this movie is made for a specific group of people, specifically for those who are really into animation and is a big fan of Ghibli itself. I watched this with my girlfriend, and she had to ask me what's the whole point of this movie in the end because to her it just feels like a kids movie haha :,D
I’ll just drop my two cents and do a hot take here: I did not enjoy Across the Spiderverse. I know other people did, I see the appeal and I think the animation is stunning but it just wasn’t my cup of tea. I have never been a Marvel or Superhero fan and I didn’t particularly relate or enjoy any of the characters in Across the Spiderverse. Now I have yet to see The Boy and Heron but I have long been a Studio Ghibli fan and I can’t wait to see it. On free weekends my siblings and I will just gather in the theater room and binge a ton of Ghibli. The way you equated The Boy and the Heron to a home cooked meal/Across the Spiderverse to a 5 star restaurant is exactly how I would describe the contrast between the two films and how I felt about them. It’s like coming home to a warm house after a long trip away. Across the Spiderverse was big and flashy and bold and for some that’s what they want to see in their films but it’s not for me and it makes me really happy to see that Studio Ghibli is still gets some recognition even in today’s world.
The film is the definition of style over substance. Nothing happens of importance. And while all that style had a purpose in the first film, here it just looks pointless. Simply put, pretentious.
Pretentious is honestly wild. Nothing happened? The whole story had themes of choices and decisions that lead us to changes in the characters we became so involved with in the first movie. If you think nothing of importance happens you obviously did not watch the film.
What you said about 2D animation being forced to beg for scraps at the kid's table-- FUCKING NAILED IT. Also, the voice actor's statement about being robbed-- I understand he is a bit biased because he's the lead voice actor in that film, but that just comes off as really disrespectful to his opposition and made me angry!! does he have no idea what goes into 2D animation?!??!?! 😡😡😡😡😡😡 I really love what you said about how The Boy and the Heron made us feel. I think that probably played a huge factor because you're absolutely right.We knew what to expect walking into one movie and with the other, we didn't. That's the key. 👏 👏 👏
Thank you so much for watching! Yeah he for sure came across as a sore loser and a bad sport, but at the same time like you said he is the voice behind the main characters so hes just repping his home team. I couldnt agree more, the feeling i got from watching TBatH was honestly unmatched from any movie ive ever seen before
I'm convinced that anyone who claimed that Spider-Verse was robbed didn't actually see Boy & Heron. It deserved to win on a technical level, a storytelling level and a filmmaking level. Just a gorgeous and moving picture.
I enjoyed both movies immensely, though I say I like Across the Spider-Verse a bit more. And while I'm glad that Miyazaki won another Oscar for what's probably his last film, I think him winning will not do that much about how the majority of the public thinks about animated films, ans especially anime films in general, since Miyazaki is practically a brand of its own, when people think of Miyazaki's film I see plenty of people that don't see then as anime Sidenote, I find it kind of amusing the fact that Miles Morales and Mahito were both dubbed by the same voice actor, Emilio Treviño, in the Latin American Spanish dub versions of both movies
" since Miyazaki is practically a brand of its own, when people think of Miyazaki's film I see plenty of people that don't see then as anime " So true, and extremely depressing at the same time when you think of how Studio Ghibli will 95% sure pass alongside with him when he does. Im just so grateful we got one more masterpiece!
@@ZellyJP I'm not sure what's going to happen in the future, but I can't see Ghibli having the same relevance in the future without Miyazaki. There's plenty of talented people in Ghibli, but very few of the non-Miyazaki directed movies have manage to capture the attention of the audience and critics, save for Grave of the Fireflies, Arriety (though Miyazaki wrote the script for that one), Tale of Princess Kaguya and maybe Marnie was here. Ever since Takahata's passing I think Ghibli has changed a lot, and even some memebers left the studio and founded their another one, Studio Ponoc. It's difficult to know how the anime film industry is going to be in the future, commercially it has never been so healthier, movies like Demon Slayer: Mugen Train, One Piece Film: Red, The First Slam Dunk, Suzume, Jujutsu Kaisen 0 have become huge hits in international markets as well, and there's plenty of other famous directors like Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai, though they're not as famous in the West as Miyazaki, and while some of those films I mentioned were well received they're not thematically in the same level, some of them are more like Hollywood blockbuster equivalents, which isn't bad, but I hope that some new voices in the anime industry can make movies as deep and moving as the ones Miyazaki did
How do you live while carrying profound grief, rage, fear, when social demands are at odds with your values and emotions, in an unjust and cruel world?
Every single Miyazaki and most Ghibli movies just hit different for me. My favorite movies of all time are almost all just animated and most of them are in fact Miyazaki's and Ghibli's
@@vic85667 Technically may not be the same level but to me all of them are above everything else apart from a few outliers like silent voice or suzume or your name
@@Arkhalis404 yes so it’s just nostalgia I’m sorry but logically Spider-Man had better and more innovative animation better développement the story line is good ect
A large part may have been that Studio Gibli tends to treat their animators kind of well from what I have heard. That can't really be said for the spiderverse 2 team. Rewarding overworking should be only for when a film is a so far above everything else. When it comes to a close match, pick the team that did their project the right way.
Finally watched The Boy and the Heron and I can say. I was blown away by the artistry, animation and music. The story comes full circle by the end and I can say I appreciate it. I’ll note the weird similarities to some of Miyazaki’s older films, but that’s to be expected. I disagree with you though where you equate Across the Spider-verse to the Michelin meal based on it being a big budget, bombastic sequel (my words😅). The same heart and emotion you felt from The Boy and the Heron I didn’t feel until the end. Whereas the Spider-verse served this across. Whether it was focally through Gwen’s reveal and consequences to her dad, Miles dealing with life as Spider-Man and not wanting to let his parents down, his parents worry about their child, Miguel’s desire for control to prevent the damage he previously caused in another dimension, etc. Capped on top by the tone of the canon and how Miles, could break everything just because he was the Spider-Man that should not have been. This crux of the story sits between the intersection of big hero movies and heart. And the mix of animation styles and the amazing score, which also blends orchestral with hip hop and rock is its own interesting thing itself. Liked the Boy and the Heron, but yeah, they were robbed by the Academy and should have won an award, the same as the Boy and the Heron.
I love both. It could have gone both ways. TBATH really filled my heart. at the end of it, I was crying and felt like i understood and didn't understand at the same time. It was beautiful
that means a ton thank you. I know i gotta upload more consistently so people can recognize when I upload. 2 months in between uploads is just horrible but thank you so much for taking the time to watch and glad you enjoyed!
Thank you so much for not using sound bytes in your review. There are sound bytes that I’m sensitive to so I’m glad you didn’t do them. And that intro HOLY CRAP IT’S SOOOOO GOOD! I squealed when you showed clips of the other nominees. AND YOU USED THE CINEVORE EDITS OMG! Hope this becomes popular soon.
@@ZellyJP I like meme-y sound effect sometimes but when I say sound bytes, I mean the sound clips from the clip like the brief clip you showed about the Iraq invasion. You could have used the audio for that clip for a few seconds, but you didn’t and I like that, because there are sound effects and audio clips that I’m sensitive to like war and audience reception when they collectively hate something. Plus, your review is short, but insightful. Very noice.
@@annikamarcelo3523 ahh that makes sense! And yes I am very intentional with my scripts, I have a very short attention span as most people do nowadays so I strip all the fluff and fat from my scripts and I think it helps the overrall quality
@@vic85667 "Objectively a better animation" how do you even define that? How is it 'better'? Yeah it's flashier but how does that make it better?? "A good story line" it's a part one. I'm not saying it's bad, its just a part one. So its hard to compare an incomplete story to a complete one like Boy and the Heron Also Boy and the Heron also had an excellent story which related to death and creation. Also how in the WORLD could it be nostalgia talking I'm 16 and I watched my first ghibili movie when I was 13???
@@a_viewer5386 "how do you even define that ?" The movie is not only flashier but have a groundbreaking animation combining various styles like 3D and 2D the movie itself is very innovative where in the other hand tbath is as always the same style where again in spider man the movie excel in distinctive visual styles for different Spider-Man characters and universes. The result is a highly innovative and visually stimulating film. "It’s a part one" it’s a part two and even this is not an argument it’s don’t change the fact it’s a good storyline adding more continuation in the story extension in the universe in fact it’s a good sequel "tbath is also an excellent story about creation and death" like spider man don’t use those subjects there’s a litteral death of a universe and it’s pretty much what the story is around spider man also talk about embrassing identity unity responsibility and legacy free will and caracther growth in the eyes of miles and Gwen becoming more mature and facing relatable problems that can also resonate with anyone and also the relationship with miles and his parents really worked in the movie tbath also have good messages but it’s really not that deep and already done better in others Ghibli movies don’t forget it’s the audience targeted is kids and 3 years is enough to develop nostalgia but maybe because you like animes
@@a_viewer5386 "how do you define that" it’s not only about being flashier 🤣This film is known for its groundbreaking animation style, combining various techniques to create a visually dynamic experience. It features a blend of 2D and 3D animation, with distinctive visual styles for different Spider-Man characters and universes. The result is a highly innovative and visually stimulating film. "It’s a part one" it’s a part two and even that is not an argument it add continuation to the story more complex storytelling an extension of the universe it’s should not even be an argument "also the boy and the heron is an excellent story related to death and creation" so is spider verse 💀 there’s a litteral death of a universe the story is literally around death and talk about many subjects like unity responsibility and legacy personal identity self acceptance free will and caracther growth in the eyes of Miles and Gwen and I think their experience with their parents can resonate even more with anyone and interaction are more realistic troughoug the movie we see the caracther becoming more mature tbath is really not that deep and have already be done better in other ghibli don’t forget the principal targeted audience is kids and 3 years is enough to have nostalgia or maybe you like animes
@vic85667 Just because it's ground breaking doesn't make it better. I agree Spiderverse has very good animation, that is very distinct and inovative. I went to the movie just for that. HOWEVER none of that makes it objectively better animation. ITS DIFFERENT sure but not BETTER. The Boy and the Heron is beautifully cell animated with fantastic hand painted backgrounds, wonderful character acting that makes them feel alive. These are both amazingly animated films, and its basically impossible to say one is better animated than the other. Part twos don't get any flack if they have an ending. Across the Spiderverse DOESN'T have an ending. It ends on a cliffhanger. So not comparable to Boy and The Herons story because it's complete. Even then, people liked Boy and The Heron more because it themes are much more... real. It deals with a death of a mother. Something many people have experienced. Nobody has experienced the death of a universe. I'm not saying spiderverse had a bad story far from it but, I find myself emotionally connecting with Boy and The Heron more because of my ability to relate to the characters. And all of that stuff about what spiderverses story is about? Yeah Boy and The Heron does that too. AND it is "deep" arguably it is one of the best ghibili movies made. Mahito's dealing of grief is very real and, to my knowledge, is not shown in any other Ghibili movie. This is also one of the only Ghibili movies not only about creation, but Legacy. The old man wants to pass his world down but Mahito refuses. The old man is left to wonder what does he do with the world he's made now that his life is coming to an end. And I would argue that the Boy and the Heron is not targeted at kids. The original japanese name for the movie directly translates to "How Do You Live?" Which is really what the movie is about. Many people are talked and agreed that this movie is more for the older crowd who have lived life quite a bit. The Boy and the Heron is just as much made for kids as Across the Spiderverse. Also about the nostalgia thing... no? Bro 13 SUCKED I never wanna go back. It makes me wonder why you like spiderverse so much more than Boy and The Heron, why are you so mad that it lost? Tell me. Why should have Spidervese won? WHY is it objectively 'better'
from the war scene alone in TBATH i knew it was the greatest thing Miyazaki has produced, the way i watched in theaters so entranced by something someone made , had made me tear up, not only because it was sad but because the pure beauty of the art itself.
Spiderverse felt like how modern talented artists really cared for their work despite being done in technology, meanwhile Ghibli still makes life with art while being traditional. It doesn't matter how you make great art with traditions or technology as long it's intentionally human made, but AI is never an art itself and people tend to forget that. I hope Miyazaki's fear of feeding folks with AI slop movies won't becoming an actual thing in the future.
There's something most fans forget, TBATH provided something Spider verse didn't, an ending. The storyline is far more superior as you said, but it also provide an ending to the journey. Part of spider verse downfall was not completing it's story. Now I'm not saying it is a bad thing to make 2 movies share a storyline, but it's definitely not a pro in the Oscar challenge. I watched TBATH and although it didn't apeal to me like other Ghibli movies it is still better than spider verse in the animation and storytelling. Each frame is pure gold.
i watched the movie yesterday and i have some questions about the endig 1. When the grand uncle world was destroyed (tower collapsed) does that mean the pelicans are now free? since they were stuck on the island starving and thus lead them to eat the wara wara and they weren’t native to the magic world ? Does that mean they returned to their real world 2. himi burns and kills some wara wara trying to protect the majority of them and some wara wara get eaten doesnt that mean the dead wara wara also reincarnate again? since the wara wara are a reference to how souls are created and the the movie theme is about life and death and reincarnation? and kiriko says that himi killing some of them with her fire will help the majority to be reborn doesnt that also imply that these souls also regulate anyways even if they get burned or die?
1) I think at the end when all the animals escape through the time door it insinuates they all were able to leave. There was no fish in the ocean, so they were forced to eat the wara wara in a vicious cycle of hunger, and pain but luckily were able to go back to the real world. 2) I assume since the wara wara that are eaten will eventually have another chance to go to the real world. I believe kiriko was referencing that himi's involvement its a net positive because even though she is burning some wara wara if she doesnt intervene then the pelicans would eat all of them. The other world is "balanced" but the grand uncle wasnt able to create one absolved of pain and malice and thats why he wanted mahito to take his place. The Birds eat the wara wara, himi burns the birds, and the wara wara reincarnate, and all of this process has pain and death at the focus point
@@ZellyJP thank you for explaining the ending confused me abit and wara wara part was so confusing to me since they r souls and not actual living beings but ya i think the movie hints that life all about reincarnation and that life is a continuous cycle instead of just death
I know it’s a controversial movie but the boy and the heron hit me in a way not many other movies have. For me it’s one of those movies you feel a bond with and can’t truely explain why. That makes it one of my favorite ghibli films. (Although my #1 favorite is definitely the tale of the princess kaguya)
I think a real big point to keep in mind as well about the difference between Boy and the Heron and Spiderverse is that, regardless of how good or bad Spiderverse actually is, much of its success also rides upon decades and decades of pre-established fan loyalty to the "Spider-Man" brand, completely disconnected from any particular artists' rendition of Spider-Man. Yes there is loyalty to Miyazaki as an internationally famous artist, because he makes great movies, but every single one of his works is stand-alone and unique from one another. I still find people regularly who are heavily involved in anime who have NO idea who Miyazaki or Studio Ghibli are. I've yet to meet a single person who hasn't heard of Spider-Man. The fact that a stand alone film, even from Miyazaki, won over one of the world's biggest IPs, speaks volumes. There are a lot of people who think Spiderverse should win just because of brand loyalty to the Spider-Man IP and all of the familiar Spider-Man memeification that tickles some part of their nostalgia (a tactic that's used heavily in super hero franchises to increase commercial success cheaply), which is not a fair measure when comparing it to other productions.
you get it, this is what miyazaki's film had that the spiderverse didn't. and it's amazing how that connection was portrayed through animation, while spiderverse's animation is just purely action.
We are so focused on “who won”, which will always be subjective based on a small group of people which are voting. But I think it makes more sense to look at all the nominees as winners (they are after all still a small number of all the movies made). Being the final “winner” is just the icing on the cake as they say. But even getting nominated is an honor, and gets some people aware of movies that they otherwise may not know about. I can imagine there are quite a few Spidey fans that don’t even know about Studio Ghibli, and this Oscars may have led them to broaden their horizons and explore its movies. And vice versa for that matter. I love both movies, but glad that Miyazaki won, since it is the more personal artistic vision, and will hopefully lead to new Miyazaki fans. Plus, Miller and Lord had just won an Oscar for part one, and have already raked in so much money with these movies, not like they needed another Oscar for validation, lol. Everybody just enjoy the amazing creatives we have in animation right now, both in movies and on the small screen, it is an awesome time to be an animation fan !
I'm still delighted by the fact that The Boy and the Heron. This is one of the greatest winners in the category ever, a groundbreaking win for adult animation (It's rated PG-13), hand drawn animation, international animation and indie animation distribution as well, since this is the first win from GKIDS. Sure, Spider-Man would've also been a great winner, but a less exciting one, since it would've been more predictable and fit the mold of what usually wins in the category: family friendly CGI blockbuster. The boy and the heron is complex, strange, serious, but also a work of art coming from a personal place. In no way is a conventional winner with the history of the academy with animation. This win is gonna age better and better the more people rewatch this film and get new things of it. It didn't win because of name recognition, it won because it was on the best animated films in a year with heavy competition
Omg, when you showed the clips from The Boy and the Heron, I started shivering and my heart accelerated. The way you described it and the music made it even better. I've never been so concentrated and disconnected at the same time, I don't even know what happened, it's a beautiful movie. I NEED TO WATCH THIS MOVIE FR
A movie should not be controversial just because there was another movie people wanted to win at a damn awards ceremony. You can love The Boy and The Heron and Spiderverse, how many rewards it wins or doesn't win shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Okay sheeshhh great video! I honestly didnt even know about the awards lol. That one line that you said there at 7:16 thoughhh that totally touched my heart ..
All of the little callbacks to his other films, visual callbacks in shots to totoro, spirited away, princess mononoke, and more, are what tells me you're right. This films audience is his deepest fans. The first one I caught was Mahito kicking off his shoes. It was definitely rotoscoped animation from Chihiro kicking off her shoes. Then the shrubby 'rabbithole' from totoro, and Mahito standing on the rocks like San, and those were all just in films first sequences. The callbacks kept coming up and it was just a joy and so special. I saw the film twice in theaters but I cannot wait for it to come to streaming so I can keep rewatching.
I wish you were a bit more specific about the comparison between the two. Boy and the Heron was a beautiful experience but it wasn't as emotionally gripping for me as you described. I would love to see a follow up video that dissects a theme or a certain scene.
05:35 You know nothing about that feeling of rejection if you've never witnessed how each and every animated masterpiece, be it from Studio Ghilbli, Cartoon Saloon or any other studio, lose to yet another Disney/Pixar movie time and time again. I'll NEVER forgive them for the fact that both "The Tale of Princess Kaguya" and "Wolfwalkers" lost. So I say get over it and let those who've been in the dark for DECADES take the spotlight
Another reason why the academy chose Boy and the Heron might be that Across the Spiderverse is a sequel, you kind of have to watch the first one to get some insight on what is going on in the film. But with Boy and the Heron, it is a movie you can just jump into without having any background or something you have to watch before. I personally enjoyed Boy and the Heron more than Across the Spiderverse because I had no idea what has coming.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
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I think you balanced the discussion well but ironically in your argument about comparing Boy and the Heron and Spiderverse the other nominees were left out entirely! Films like Nimona were pretty groundbreaking too that year and wouldve been interesting to hear that side of it too. And yes the Oscar disrespect of animation is the worst 🥲 but at least we have the Annies
@@animatedmelissa I thought about covering the other nominees, but my idea for this video was more focused on the "Robbery" between TBatH and ATSV. I came to the conclusion that covering all of them would have changed the video into something more along the lines of "Which Film Deserves the Oscar" and that just wasnt as interesting to me, and I dont think people care about my opinion enough just yet to watch that video 😂 But you are right, the other films nominated were amaaazzingggg as well
I find it incredibly ironic that you praise this film for having breathtaking animation and being a love letter to the medium, while using ugly, interpolated footage of it that completely ruins your point.
Robed
Sure, here's some feedback - while I think the points you made and your narration were great, the visual editing needs some serious work. It got a little tiring seeing the same few clips for The Boy and the Heron played on loop over and over, when you could have broken these up with either other clips, or bits of text and graphics to accentuate your point (for a good example on an interesting way to do this, check out AL the Boi, love the editing on that channel). And, on the topic of those Boy and the Heron clips, as another said - it's very ironic that you praise the film for it's amazing animation, and specifically point out the fact that Hayao Miyazaki has *condemned* AI, comparing it to an insult to *life itself* - and yet, you are USING AI interpolated clips in the video. It's just gross.
“If you’re going to lose, you might as well lose to the GOAT”
Remember Shape of Voice vs Boss Baby?
Never forget
Loser mentality
also across the spiderverse was a mess compared to into the spiderverse
Fact 🔥
@@tempoaccla4041 I disagree but even then, most movies are a mess compared to into the spiderverse.
It’s wild how people fail to realize that The Boy and the Heron’s win is such a massive deal due to the fact that it is the first adult animated film to take home the Best Animated Feature award, which shows that animated films don’t have to be made for children, and can engulf adults into captivating worlds with intricate stories. 🔥
Exactly what I thought as well. I immediately recognized that this movie was not made for kids to understand or to even grasp. Its so esoteric in its design that if you dont have life experience to compare and contrast to the film its hard to recognize whats even going on. Masterful work it still blows my mind
YEAH!!! and the first ever PG-13 rated one!!!
The story was pretty weak though, this was clear bias-
As if Nimona wasn’t both an adult and children movie….Nimona got robbed. I’m a big Miyazaki fan, but this movie didn’t deserve to win, and wasn’t even half as good as any other of his works
Oddly enough my 6 year old enjoys The Boy and The Heron. Fun fact: it was the equivalent of a “PG” in other countries and I think it could have been rated PG. It’s not nearly as bloody as Princess Mononoke.
Never forget The Boss Baby snatched an oscar from A Silent Voice.
No way they didn’t pay them 😭
And Kimi no Nawa
Never forget that Frozen snatched an oscar from The Wind Rises.
@@MrBoponpa Frozen is good compared to The Boss Baby
@@halloklouey6885 low bar
"spiderman is a wagiu steak in a michelin restaurant while the boy and the heron is a meal your parents or grandparents cooked" I love this comparison, reminds me of ratatouille where Anton Ego fell in love with Remy's cooking not because it was some fancy food but simply because it tasted like home.
Wagyu
@@DefenestrateYourselflol
So it's all about nostalgia? Honestly, to me the movie was so mid, I think people liked it because it felt similar to older Ghibli films, except it's not as good, they're repeating the same formula that made those movies great.
I think they gave the oscar to Miyazaki for his career, rather than to the movie itself.
Meanwhile Spiderverse actually did something unique and amazing, but the Oscars hate sequels I guess.
@@danielrc14 people will glaze miyazaki for anything nowadays across the spiderverse was literally better in every single way possible
Spider-Man is not a wagyu steak lmao it’s a McDouble, maybe a Big Mac. Franchise slop marketed to the widest possible audience, and totally forgettable after consuming.
we, the people are robbed every year by the academy forcing "animated film" into its own category, as if the entire medium is a single genre. We're robbed every time that only one film is allowed to get the award for an entire medium, and beautiful works of art are unnecessarily shunted because there can only be one "winner" for the whole art form.
Yes, the approach of the academy borders on manipulation. The year 1999 had 31 animated movies released to theaters, for example: Disney's Tarzan, Ghibli's My Neighbours the Yamadas, Warner's The Iron Giant; and Production I.G.'s Jin-Roh the wolf brigade. ...Now I see that the Animated Feature category of the Oscar's was only introduced in 2001. If you look up the whole list of Academy Award for Best Animated Feature on wikipedia it's also obvious to animation interested people that the most movies selected are aimed at children/family (The second constriction made by the academy.)
You make a good point. Multiple winners should be a thing.
Even better if they're spread over many genres/categories the normal movies usually got nominated on. Adult, children, women, men, teen, family, education, fantasy, horror, war, etc.
You know what? Make a once every five-year international award event or programme just for animations and divide them also by medium used (stop motion, 2D, 3D) and what entity (indie, small/short project, school/college entries, big studio productions, seasonal competition, personal...), whether they're movies or tv series, classics or modern (pre or post 2000)... and then there are awards for best studio, best art style, best storyboard, best voice/model, best set/bg/world setting, best character designs, best storyline, best script/dialogues, best fx, best music score, best choreography, etc etc.
Just for the animation industry. Straight up international so every country can participate that every five year or so.
So everybody should get a trophy? What?
Animation is a medium not a genre. People just don't realise that and its so frustrating
People keep saying crap about nostalgia, but i don't think it's nostalgia. I think we just miss quality.
Yeah, y'all definitely miss quality.
Nah, the boy and the heron was so mid
@@JDB51 What a great opinion! Next time: Keep it to yourself! 🗣🔥
@@JDB51hah, opinion from spidermid fan
Wait people call it spidermid now @TienNguyen-ky4dx
Honestly, I really hate it when people don't take animation seriously. Animation can deliver stories that are just as great as those of live-action movies. In fact, the shows that were the most thought-provoking to me and made me appreciate life more were anime shows, which include Sousou no Frieren, Mob Psycho 100, and Violet Evergarden. I too hope that animation gets more categories.
Animation, shouldn't be a category imo. If it is as good as any live action movie then it should stand proud amongst them in the same categories they have.
I agree! Even Walt Disney himself believed that, too! He even quoted, "Animation offers a medium of storytelling and visual entertainment which can bring pleasure and information to people of all ages everywhere in the world".
womp womp people dont take funny cartoon movies seriously
@@Mik-kv8xx Tho that's like saying there shouldn't be any categories at all, and only have just one award. Which devalues the point of highlighting the need to show how varied the medium can actually be. Altho, which also make you beg the question if there should be an award ceremony.
“Animation is for kids!”
I guess its alright for 8 year old timmy to watch the masterpiece that is end of evangelion, a film that definitely doesn’t kill a lot of people and contain imagery not suitable for anyone under the age of 17
I lost my dad last year, a week before Spiderverse came out. It was heavy and emotional for me to watch the relationships between Gwen and Miles' and their dads. After a few months, I started to feel some semblance of "normal" returning to my life. Then, The Boy and the Heron came out. That film dug deep and literally had me in tears at so many parts in the film. It had themes of losing a parent, and if you had just one more day with someone you love, what you say, what would you do with them. It was actually a very healing experience for me.
My sincere condolences for your father.
I am very sorry to hear about your father, I hope you’re doing okay right now. 🫂💜
One of Miyazaki’s goals is to relate to our traumas and gives us closure
May he rest in peace
When people say "every frame a painting" this is the kind of movie they are refering to.
I'm affraid the world at large will leave something important behind when the grumpy old man will go. He's pretty much the only internationally recognised name that strive to maintain the old ways and his artistry will probably die with him, and I don't find that a comforting prospect...
In a world full of profit margins and bottom lines its refreshing to see unfiltered, authentic art from a master in his craft
Same thing can be said about Spider Verse. Plus it was a 1000 times more ambitious.
@@kingace6186 Was I the comment you intended to respond to? Because I fail to see how what you said has anything to do with the points I brought up.
Anyways, it's fine to praise one or the other, but you seem to fall into the category of "mine's better because I like it more". They were both good movies, and any compliment towards one is not made to the detriment of the other.
Poor Things and Dune 2 are both very artistic movies, there is hope 😊
@@rain4825 he's saying that Miyazaki isn't the only one who can make high quality animations and that there are others who will still continue in the same path as him, so hop off his dick.
I mean, being a complete story sure helps a lot I reckon.
oh without a doubt. The oscars are notoriously hostile towards sequels. Just goes to show how good atvs was!
Across The Spider-Verse IS a complete story with a full three act structure so
@@Ivyrigsno its not😭 just compare to the first movie
@@ZellyJP I think voters hesitate voting for second films in trilogies. It wasn’t until Return of the King that the Oscars lavished awards for lord of the rings.
@@Ivyrigs Being structured in 3 acts doesn't suffice to make it complete I'm affraid. Without going into a long essay on everything in the movie, my biggest point against it would be that it loads a dozen tchekov rifle but only fires three or four by the end.
I really liked it, mind you, but it's painfully obvious that it set up a sequel when you reach the credits and you're like "huh?". The abrupt end that cut you off mid climax comes as a cold shower when no conflict in the story has been resolved, and the tension is at its maximum.
For all the greats things about it it left us hanging in the end.
yk what pisses me off the most? The fact that people who did not even watch the boy and the heron say that spiderman should have won and don't simply appreciate how great both movies are. Animation is before anything else made to convey a certain message which some people seem to miss. And the worst part of it all is that exactly those people are the loudest.
Watched both. Spider Man should've won by a MILE.
@@Nolord_ spiderman wasn't all that
By a miles*wink*
@Nolords_ no
@@Nolord_ Agreed
Animation is a medium not a genre seems the Academy still do not understand this after all these years....
Yeah it’s a shame. The fact that a movie like Barbie got a best picture nominee, but neither of these, speaks volumes about how they view animation.
@@drchristophe207 Barbie is still a good movie.
Didn't deserve the nomination tho.
@@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan yeah I agree I actually enjoyed it a lot. But compared to these two I don’t think it’s even close.
@@drchristophe207 Barbie also had the power of feminist bias on its side, these animations never stood a chance.
they're a bunch of old white farts, what do they know about any form of art but their own.
Honestly, I’m just grateful that this year’s most promising nominees were pretty much win-win situations. The Boy and the Heron or Across the Spider-verse, either of them winning was a win for animation, and I’m just glad it was so.
Don’t forget nimona
And Robot Dreams, that one was also a great watch!
Yeah. People complaining about their favourite movie not winning.
When this year was one of the strongest ever for animation in Years.
I still remember the years when movies like Boss Baby were nominated.
The only think I had a little bit of an issue with was that the Academy didn't nominate Suzume.
It's like they have a rule that they can only take one animated film from Japan and it can only be a Ghibli film.
@@themaximumchannel3345 namona was actually a decent movie, unlike wish, which got nominated somehow
@@person2795really, WISH, got NoMiNATeD, shows how people shouldn’t be fighting at themselves over which movie is “better”, but seeing the true nature of the Oscar’s nowadays..
When I was younger, in my teens, I had an interaction with an elderly man. I’d known him for many years through my grandmother but I never really talked to him all that much or anything so it’s not like we were close. I was sitting down just playing some music on my phone while I was around a campfire and I eventually played Over the Rainbow. I’m casually starting the song then I hear a faint “somewhere over the rainbow, way up high”. It was the old man on the chair across from me singing along to the song. It was quiet and peaceful and extremely eye opening for me, someone who was younger and thought the world revolved around me. This moment reminded me that the world around me was real and the experiences of others around me were valid.
The Boy and the Heron reminds me of that moment. Hayao Miyazaki did for the rest of the world what that old man did for me, provided a reminder that the world is alive, quiet, and powerful if you pay attention.
comments like these are why I love making videos! thank you for sharing ❤️
beautiful
There's a japanese movie from 1952 that was just remade called "Ikiru" (or "Living"), you should watch it. it's about an old man singing gingerly as he copes with dying and the legacy he may or may not leave upon the world and upon the people in his life. Your story reminded me of it.
@@peccamecha sounds dope. I’ll definitely check it out. Thank you
Alive even when quiet. Love that. A dream can feel as real.
You forgot to mention how the film also adresses Miyazaki's conflict with his own son who hasnt received recognition also as an animator...
Awards are subjective and the whole Academy system is broken down. Miyazaki winning is one those rare "worthy wins", because a lot of the times it comes down to politics, popularity, or simply luck. I love both movies an I wish both could have won. Period. Great video!! Thanx!!!
Oh 100% ! It was in my script to begin with but in full transparency I dont think i was skilled enough as a writer just yet to manage to fit it in while maintaining the pace of how the video is right now. I cut out a solid 3-5 minutes off this video that I wasnt able to fit in while maintaining flow and pacing.
Also, the Academy members, previously interviewed, don't take animation seriously, might not even watch the nominee, and vote for Disney as a safe bet. It's surprising The Boy and The Heron managed to reach enough of them.
I'm happy Ghibli won, but ATSV should've atleast been nominated for its music and editing. Grouping all the animated features into one category is so stupidly disrespectful towards the craft. They should try and expand it more by incorporating new awards
Pinning Boy&Heron against ATSV is unfair as both films are exceptional in their own right. Not one is better than the other.
Personally i am so happy Boy&Heron won as it ushered my local theatres to finally show it, and i got to see it on the big screen. It was worth the wait!!!
It's crazy that ATSV wasn't even nominated for its score.
Spiderverse didn’t get any nominations?? That’s insane should have got atleast one of them
A tad bit biased because I'm a huge Miyazaki fan, but I honestly don't really understand why people are so pissed that TBATH won. I mean yeah, if you're like a die-hard Spiderverse fan, I can see where you're coming from, but this is the first time in over two decades a movie like THIS has won. Come on, give em some credit. And yes, both movies were absolutely phenomenal and beautifully made in their respective ways, but I mean still...
Edit: Should I have not made this comment? Sorry if thats the case
Superhero fans an Anime fans are extremely similar in a lot of ways. The most poignant being they both think their "thing" is the best thing to every exist and everyone should love it. AND if you dont LOVE it, youre wrong and most likely dumb 😂😂
People also forget how animations from around the world influences each other even over the last hundred years or so.
@@ZellyJP I think I'm like you and, since I enjoy both anime and superheroes, it'd be tough for me to pick between the two!
Loved your end take. Animation needs more recognition and respect in the West! Hopefully both these films are helping to achieve that.
As someone who greatly prefer across the spiderverse, I will say I think the boy and the heron winning was probably better for the industry as a whole, as well as it’s acclaim and success. I have my personal issues with it, but it is so clear it was made by extremely talented people with so much love and care infused into it, and I also think the fact that this is the first 2D animated movie to win since spirited away in 2002, and as a send off to the man who made some of the best animated films to date, I think the win was well deserved, even if I prefer spiderverse.
Except Ghibli has been robbed way too many times. And no, Spiderman was not as special as you think it was as well@@perseus3115
Across the spiderverse was great I loved it for its characters, backgrounds, it looks like a comic in motion. Miyazaki takes me by the hand and sets a journey. In it I’m 12 years old again vulnerable, furious at the world for its cruelty. In the end I’m deep in my own emotions, and he’s there saying, “Are you happy to be alive?”
You made me nearly cry, thanks
Literally nostalgia is your reason
@@zthebig6753 And if I was a longtime Spider-Man fan, would I have nostalgia bias for Spiderverse? Get outta here with that.
Spiderverse is a beautiful film with its fusion of 3D animation + traditional comic + oil paintings and the scene with Gwen and her dad really hits home but I mean, TBATH is an otherworldly experience. Its unlike anything I've ever seen before. Like you said, its like the viewer is going on a journey, i felt my entire life flash before my eyes. It definitely deserved the award over Spiderverse.
The characters in question:
- Depressive spider man wannabe's
- Miles Morales
- Hobie Brown
- Pavitr Prabhakar
- Margo Kess
- Peter B Parker
- An irish-mexican humanoid spider with anger issues and LTG of the Spiderverse.
When we were kids, my father stumbled on Miyazaki at the local video rental, and for a while that was all that we watched (we didn’t have cable TV, so when I say it was all that we watched-I mean all). We owned Nausicaa on dvd and i must have seen that film over 100 times, so much that the disc was basically unreadable at some point. I rewatched the movies about 10 years later in my mid twenties to introduce them to a friend, and it hit me, as an adult, how much the films had shaped me as a child. As in, I’m fairly certain Miyazaki’s films laid the blueprint for all of my moral philosophy, my hierarchy of values, my ideals, etc, and it hit me as an adult that how my relationship to Miyazaki’s oeuvre was nearly religious.
When I saw the Boy and the Heron I saw it with that same friend who was introduced to Miyazaki in their twenties, and they were pretty confused. During the credits they wanted to start analyzing what had just happened, but I couldn’t because I just started crying. The film felt like such a gift, something made just for me. It spoke in a language that I had learnt as a child, and could follow intuitively. I knew every frame as if I had seen it a thousand times, yet it felt like unpacking an entirely new present. A whole new world, one that said “i have given you everything that I have to give, but now i am old, and tired, and full of mistakes. All things must change.” It was so perfect. I saw it again with my sister a week later and my roommate, and she had the same reaction as I did. The roommate was confused-he could tell there was a lot going on in the movie that he wasn’t catching, but my sister had the exact same reaction that i did. She just started crying.
I found the best youtube comment.
You described my own experience. I went alone, because I knew few of my friends or family would really understand and appreciate. My childhood was pretty much just like yours, with Nausicaa, Mononoke Hime, Porco Rosso, Laputa... It shaped many of my world views. I'm just grateful. Sometimes that means being sad, too.
Seeing people dismiss Boy and the Herons animation as less complex or impressive than ATSV honestly hurts.
I'm as excited as anyone for the boundaries ATSV pushed for CGI and digital animation techniques, but BATH let us see what hand-drawn animated features could be today had they not been largely replaced by CGI. BATH isn't flashy but it shines in the mastery of the principles of animation, which makes the bedrock ASTV builds on, and BATH did it better than perhaps anyone ever has.
Yeah nothing new basically
@@daeith1233 Only new in quality and strength I suppose.
Both are impressive to me and achieve different things.
Its still a generic story about grief(not to say it is a bad story, just that the concept of coming to terms with grief is not groundbreaking or original)
@toasterowens8916 If you’re going that way, ATSV is another generic multiverse story. Don’t undermine a story because the premise has been used already; what matters is how it’s handled. Both movies handled their common troupes masterfully
@@MetaGiga spider verse is a continuation of a movie that kicked off the multiverse craze, don't be ignorant. I like both movies, but people are acting like tbath is God's gift to earth just because it's studio Ghibli
Across the Spiderverse has been 10 years in the making (combining with the beginning of preprod of Into)
How Do You Live is the crystallisation of the work of a lifetime. The lifetime of the greatest animation film director of all time.
Simple as that.
Totally agree. You can see Miyazaki's personal evolution from film to film, and this one was his biggest leap yet: throwing all of his consciousness into it in a way that only someone with his experience could without ruining the core themes of the film. Just like his thought process, it seems like the film is completely fluid in its representation of themes and ideas in a way that is much more prevalent than in his other films.
I loved ATSV but to me it's more like a really well executed movie, while TBATH is a point of artistic culmination from one of the greatest artists to ever roam this earth.
Not 10, maybe 5
@@BattleBeast5 ATSV took 5 years, but the start of the conception of ITSV was 5 years prior, so the entire Spiderverse took 10 years
Yes. Yes. Yes.
What are you saying? I mean time makes a good movie but what if it's just another u know same parents die and stuff like most or all spiderman movies..
Totally agree: Across the Spiderverse was a really good movie made capably but its inexperience in contrast to the fluid storytelling we see in The boy and the Heron is palpable.
To me it seems like Miyazaki, more than ever, threw his entire subconscious into this movie in a way that allows it to freely express its concepts without the restraints of storytelling conventions. It just feels so sincere and emotional in LITERALLY every stroke of paint and every note of the music, and it feels like every element is up to interpretation, not guiding you through a story, but instead allowing you to understand it in accordance to your own experiences.
It was hard for me as well to justify why I liked TBATH more than ATS, but ultimately, I think that one is clearly more masterful and meaningful in its entirety, while the other develops a sub-genre into a really well-told story.
I think a big part as to why most people thought spider-verse was going to win because spider-verse is funnier.
@@youraveragepersonwalkingth6850 the animation too
@@vic85667Yeah, I'll be the first to agree that to a contemporary audience, the amazingly detailed and raw animation of ATSV is much more appealing. Still think both are equally commendable for their animation. Each movie represents what it wants to with creativity and visual emotion, plus incredible skill in different ways.
@@youraveragepersonwalkingth6850 In general, ATSV is quite more comercial than TBATH. It's natural that it gained more of a following.
@@youraveragepersonwalkingth6850 I think people thought it was gonna win because it’s clear. Like I’m sorry I love Miyazaki but genuinely when I was a kid I could enjoy his movies because they were pretty and cute but now that I’m older like I need to have other people explained to me what the fuck I’m watching because it doesn’t really make any sense. I watched the whole movie and the first time I came out and I had no clue what I just watched. I couldn’t comprehend story I couldn’t understand the meaning behind. It didn’t really make sense to me and I think a lot of people came out of the movie like that, and of course, the movie that they came out of being so awed by that they did understand in terms of into the spider verse was the one that they gravitated towards. I also want to take into account cultural context personally I’m black I find that I connect to some of the story of into and across the spider verse more think because of that cultural connection so some of us we get across the spider verse better we like it and we wanted it to win you know
Not only is the Boy and the Heron an adult animated film winning an oscar, but also a 2D animated film winning an oscar, two styles of film completely written off by modern Hollywood winning the biggest award an animated film can win, an it did it in a year where in other years, pretty much any other nominee for best animated picture could've easily won. The academy expected the Boy and the Heron to be great and Spiderverse to be spectacular, but in the end both films were spectacular, and the award was given to the film that had to fight so many expectations of it in order to be recognized
Beautifully put! I’m happy that the Academy has made such a stride in appreciating animation as a medium that isn’t exclusive to children’s media!
I like how everyone waxes poetic about the "significance" of the film. But the fact of the matter is, the only reason it won is because its Miyazaki's last film
If this exact movie was made by someone else, it wouldnt even get nominated
@@melvinjoseph952 While the film is very deserving the award, there’s definitely truth to what you’re saying, as if it was directed by, say, Isao Takahata or Satoshi Kon (obviously, they passed away, but stay with me), then The Boy and the Heron likely would’ve lost. Miyazaki is a beloved and respected director, so his name being attached to the project is most likely why it won.
@@melvinjoseph952 you say "last" film like that shit means anything for the old man.
the guy has been coming out of retirement after making his "last" film so many times by now, it feels like a running gag.
@@melvinjoseph952 Bro, he's had like 3 "last films". In fact, immediately after this movie did so well in theaters, Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli went into talks about future films he still wanted to make. I feel they just call it his "last film" every time because he constantly gets frustrated by the state animation is in in Japan and wants to give up but wakes up the next day like "I want to make a movie about a cat bus."
I think both are very deserving of the award but for different reasons, and I think which ever one you think should win comes down to this
Spider-Man: the pinical of modern animation. This movie is setting the gold standard for all 3D animation moving forward. This movie is a real step forward in the technology of 3D animation and its potential.
Boy and the heron: the last bastion of a largely overlooked medium and style. The industry has been rapidly moving into 3D for years now, and every year that goes by 2D seems like a thing of the past. This movie reminds us of why we love animation. This movie reminds us that 2D will never be obsolete. It reminds us of how much value the medium of 2D animation has, and pleads with us to not let it be forgotten in the future.
In summary, Spider-Man points to the future, and the boy and the heron points to the path.
Both opinions are incredibly valid in my eyes, and further shows why animation needs more categories.
good video, i just suggest rewatching the “insult to life itself” clip again. He was referring to how machine learning 3D models learning to walk shouldn’t be used as a reference for drawing “creepy things” because it reminds him of disabled friends he has, and felt it was dehumanizing.
It literally refers to the dehumanizing part that reminded him of his disabled friend in which he literally said it.
It can also refer to the next scene in that very same context wherein the producer Mr. Suzuki asked what their goal is and they answered "They want to build a machine that can draw pictures like humans do" and Miyazaki certainly didn't like that statement, and he even goes to say "I feel like we are nearing the end of times. We humans are losing faith in ourselves"
so in context, it can refer to both.
Having watched both films in theatres, I think the difference, for me at least, was that even though The Boy and the Heron has such fantastical imagery, it also felt so personal and real, it felt like a fairy tale of the heart, a living story told just for me, where everyone in the audience could take a different massage away from the film, their message, their little secret shared only with the animation. Spider-Verse was incredible, genuinely phenomenal, but, despite having incredible characters with depth and really amazing arcs, it was also meant to show things that were beyond human, super-human, and that was the point of it, writing an amazing, greater-than-life story about superheroes, it was delightful to watch. Still, that delight felt universal, everyone understood every line with the same meaning, it was made to connect people, and it did fantastically, but it lacked the calm, introspection, interpretation, and contemplation that The Boy and the Heron brought to me.
While I think the more deserving film won in the end, I think it's an accident and not indicative of the Academy taking any kind of interest in the medium. The fact of the matter is that the first Spiderverse movie won in the past and the Academy is apprehensive about awarding best feature to movies in the middle of a series (i.e. where the story is incomplete and a sequel is guaranteed). Miyazaki was a recognized enough name to push his film over the other offerings that the majority of Academy likely hadn't bothered to watch. Most years the award aligns with whoever topped the box office, though. 15 out of 24 have gone to Disney or Pixar. We've just been fortunate the last couple years the Disney offerings have either been controversial or mediocre, allowing someone else to take home the award. Still, I get the impression the winner this year was determined by name recognition rather than an appreciation for the craft.
I can see what you mean, but in my completely irrelevant opinion, the hand drawn animation of TBatH was more impressive to me personally. And that is 100% just personal bias I am fully aware 😂 Im just glad disney and pixar werent rewarded for mediocrity
Oh totally agree that it probably was just bias. The conversation around this should be more about "which movie I like more" than "which movie should have won the Oscar", and even then it's still a bit dumb.
@@marcelinepink For the individual, maybe, but we're talking about winning an Oscar and it's kind of sad that the criteria for winning an Oscar in animation is completely different from winning in live action film. The Academy generally stands for artistry and craft in filmmaking, except for where the animated features are concerned. They need to really change how the voting works. There is no requirement to see all the movies in a category or even any of them to vote. When the majority of members aren't in the animation industry or have any interest in it, you get a lot of people voting based entirely on what they recognize or what movies their kids dragged them to. There's very little of the scrutiny they give the live action films and shows their disdain for animation as a medium.
@@adseigo Oh yeah I knew about the whole "not having to watch all the nominees" thing. That's a whole other disgusting can of worms that I wish people talked about more often. It's clear that they don't take cinema seriously just in general.
@@ZellyJPthat is 100% peroanal bias
0:19 - That's not what he was doing there. He was at a demonstration where someone was presenting a CGI animation of a humanlike creature with very deformed arms crawling around on the ground and they were pitching the program as useful for horror themed animation. Miyazaki instead noted that he has a friend who is similarly deformed and admonished the presenter's proposal. That was a great moment that showed that Miyazaki is always making the human connection.
That make sense bcs I was confused ,isn't AI fairly new? So how did he know about AI at that point ? 🤔
@@Vor567tez I think he did based on what I’ve seen of that clip. And he still didn’t like the use of it.
there is a new viral video using this old video reference , and saying he talks about AI, but the original video was from some 10 yrs ago some animation studio showing some dead/zombie creature animation...they took it out of context.. Has nothing to do with Ai and more about letting the computer just jiggle/random movement without purpose...looks 'terrific' in a real time video game.. or so it was supposed to be but in animation just looks like cheap and random.. just like these lifeless animations on 3D fighting games.. with no soul and just 'mapped' to characters..
Agreed. Miyazaki wasn't horrified at AI (or at least he didn't voice his concerns at that moment) but instead at the fact that the CGI designers chose to show him a really out-of-place procedural zombie animation that he clearly wasn't going to be interested in the technology of. Miyazaki looked right past through the tech, and saw a zombie animation. He voiced his opinion, and left. His worry about technology is completely separate, and in his movies he has never voiced any kind of anti-innovation message.
He wasn’t talking about the generative ai that’s common nowadays, but the sentiment still stands.
Honestly, after the awards, we could be heading in the right direction. There is now a demand from the majority of people for more animated films for more adults or for more art styles and original stories. The progress is going to be a bit slow, but as both Millennials and Zoomers, including Gen Alpha, get older, we'll be able to make these changes happen faster.
I think so. I guarantee you that The Boy and the Heron will not be the least adult animated film to win the Best Animated Feature Oscar, as The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim, which is releasing this December, is more than likely to win 2025’s Best Animated Feature Oscar, which would make it the second adult animated feature to win the award, right after the first, mind you, and the first non-Ghibli film to do so, which is also a win for international animated feature, in general. We are heading into a new age of animation, and I think it’ll happen sooner than we think.
Spider-Verse is a nice Marvel Super Hero sequel…it’s a sequel. The first movie already got the Oscar. The Boy and the Heron is a unique experience.
I’d say ATSV is still extremely unique tbh
@@mujiescomedy279
Yeah
while it may be a sequel, it innovates on it's own just as much as the first movie
I’m a Spider-Man fan boy and even I could tell Spider-verse wasn’t going to win not because it’s a sequel but it’s because the it’s only the first two acts of a story. Essentially it’s not a complete movie and we’re waiting for Beyond to come out to complete it
That's an excuse not to show this anime love...
I feel like the second film wasn't as strong as the first in its pacing and storytelling. It's still an incredible film but definitely felt like the awkward middle film. I'm excited though for the last one and will be seated 🎉.
@@juliawidmaier5334Bruv, you sound stupid. People like you throw me into a complete daze, mf’s never watched a film with a “to be continued” 😂😂😂. Empire Strikes Back was the most obvious comparison that was made in articles. Doesn’t make the film less worthy whatsoever. It just comes down to preference.
Plus the fact that SONY butchered
most of the characters separate
from their comic counterparts.
The boy and the heron may not have the super mega powerhouse animation like spiderverse, but it doesn’t need to. It tells a much more personal and deeper story that left an impact on me. It feels like a manifestation of his soul accepting that his time is running out.
I really like his attitude of not giving a fuck. Even not showing up to the oscars and still winning lol.
Spiderman had a cliffhanger. The story wasn't over. it would be controversial to pick the film that isn't finished.
Actually, the story barely started.
@@r.c.c.10it’s about half way through
Exactly. You can't give a trophy
to something that is incomplete.
7:24 It's like you go to a very fancy and expensive restaurant for a date with your crush. You go in with the armamentarium of your clothes, makeup, jewellery, jokes and charms. And then the main course is your mom's signature food, just the way she prepared, the mother you lost such a long time ago. You came here prepared for a battle and yet you got the warmest kiss.
I watched both Spiderman was such a cool movie and got me excited for a 3rd part
But...I watched Boy and the Heron with my mom and after the movie was over She told me "when I past away remember to keep going forward" I fear the day my mom is no longer with me and a simple movie move all those feelings for me and her. Thats how Deep the boy and the Heron went
Another person (here on TH-cam I think) actually said that a part of the reason might've been that Across the Spider-verse, as a story, can only be understood if you watched the prequel beforehand. Boy and the Heron on the other hand has a story that can stand on its own.
I don’t really think that’s the case, especially since they loosely retell the events of the first film, early on, but I get what they mean, as The Boy and the Heron requires no prior knowledge to enjoy it, while Spidey encourages you to have a grasp of Miles story prior to the new movie.
This has always been the case with oscars they mostly like to give awards to a complete story rather than incomplete once like if the movie has a prequel or a sequal, which in this case both are true.
But still beyond the perspective of oscars spiderverse though not conclusive still feels as personal as TBATH. If TBATH is about lose and grieving spiderverse is about not accepting the fate and rising above even if the word has already set it's course, it gives me strength and courage. People will feel different about both of these movies based on what of life they are in, but both of them are equally good. It giving us all that one expects from them.
I think the boy and the heron adds alot more context if you had enjoyed/watched other Miyazaki pieces. It's like a final farewell documentary pitched in his art form. It incorporates bits of every Miyazaki feature throughout the movie, including the end where the 13 blocks he is balancing and trying to add one more is a metaphor for the movies he has made. Overall, he describes the turmoil and process he/ghibli had as a creator by building this one final world that collapses back into normality. He says people will forget over time and that's not a bad thing (acceptance) as the protagonist carries that one block, a memory, which he is told is considerably weaker. It's up to him to do something with it (all of us). In a way he is saying farewell and passing on the memories and the future to us. This goes very deep for the millions of fans of Miyazaki's previous works. Even the abrupt ending points towards this; that the story continues on with us. It's a beautiful meaningful letter that he has addressed to his fans that maybe will get forgotten over time and that's okay
Something worth noting is how much more impactful the writing is for TBATH vs ATSV. I remember after walking out of the theatre for Spiderverse talking with my bf about how the main story itself felt childish and that the writers would have to be very careful in the next movie with what happens bc it could fall into a lot of traps and how neither of us really knew if they could do that. This is because both Miles and Miguel's stances felt wrong but we as the audience felt that we are supposed to pick just one and because the ending is a cliff hanger we dont know how the story will reconcile that. It sparks thinking about itself and theories while dealing with the themes of grief, responsibility, and control. Most of the emotions of the film are there to provide quick catharsis for the audience but once the movie is over, it is over, generally.
TBATH on the other hand was very confusing the first time I watched it. It felt like a journey through the subconscious and that was difficult to follow and understand accompanied by sweeping scenes and animation. I walked out of the theater thinking, idk what happened but it was beautiful and i need to figure it out. And after weeks of thinking and processing in my mind consciously and unconsciously, I understood it. Its a film that sticks with you and that you have to take your time to process. That is why to me it deserves the win. It is a film that forces you to think not just about what will happen next or theories about the world; TBATH make you think about life, death, grief, creation, and your own life. How do you live?
Excellent video man. Watched Boy and the Heron recently and I loved it too. I do find it to be an extremely pure and personal work that already feels timeless, in a way that spider verse doesn’t. That movie is awesome too but it’s very meta and self aware. Different feel.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Having watched both, I can say that I enjoyed Spiderverse more during both movies' theater screenings and is still my favorite of the two. But I'm also a huge ghibli fan and I remember the first time watching boy and the heron in theater. I thought it was just "okay" relative to other Miyazaki works at the time. But for some reason it stayed in my mind in a way spiderverse didn't for several days. I kept thinking about how the main character processed his grief and how it affected him and the new people in his life. And it had me thinking about my own life as well lol. Which is why the Japanese title seemed so apt compared to the english one. The title in Japanese is 君たちはどう生きるか？ which roughly translates to "How do you live?" which was a major theme in the movie. Even compared to other Miyazaki works, there was SO much symbolism and definitely encapsulated the idea of "show, don't tell". It's one of those movies where it gets immensely better on second rewatch. And I can see why it lead to an oscar win over spiderverse. They eat this stuff up 100%.
"Robed"
that is feckin magnificent.
😂
I put on my robe and wizard hat
As someone who follows the awards, here’s a bit of insight into the process. Before the Oscars there are precursor ceremonies that people could follow to predict the winners, the major being Golden Globes, Critics Choice, BAFTA, and the Guilds (unions).
Golden Globes recently had a major overhaul to make their voting body more international and their picks for this year were very inspired - including nominating both ATSV and Heron in Score (they lost to Oppenheimer but nobody was beating that score). And in Animated - Boy and the Heron won, which kind of started the notion that international voters liked that movie more. Spider Verse would go on to win the more domestic-heavy awards like Critics Choice, the Producers Guild and the Annie Awards - but the BAFTAs, a UK-based international body went for Heron. And since the Oscars take in more international people for the voting body every year, it makes sense that Heron won in the end.
Also to add, respect for Animated at the Oscars still has a long way - the fact that both films didn’t get any Score or above the line categories at the Oscars is criminal.
Miyazaki feels 20 years younger tbh. Dude aged gracefully.
It’s insanely refreshing to see others who have such a deep admiration and love for animation and its abilities to reflect the human condition. Fantastic video, keep up the great work!!!
we still exist 🤣
could be worse, imagining f*cking losing to BOSS BABY!!!
The fact that A Silent Voice lost a nomination to The Boss Baby is still baffling. 💀
Wtf really?? I didn't watch it because it's not to my taste but I know it's known to be a masterpiece. @@madmanonyt9943
There are many ways I could tackle this conversation but I believe the reason Kimitachi wa dou ikiru ka? won over spiderman is because Across the spiderverse, is a product while Kimitachi wa dou ikiru ka? is art.
the film, the progression of the story, and it has INCREDIBLE AND IMPRESSIVE ANIMATION too! Suddenly they forget how experimental and artistic this movie also is with the different techniques and colors used throughout the different dimensions. The score I think plays a more important role and is more memorable than in The Boy and The Heron, while also having way more really emotional moments between the characters.
Damn, I saw your first episode the day it came out. I remember TH-cam recommending it to me and me liking how you structured your video. So many new TH-camrs I've seen that and I've subbed . You are one of the few who have continued making videos . The quality is amazing, hope your channel gets more traction!
thank you so much 😭 I really love making videos, and im so happy with how this one turned out. I just need to upload more so people dont forget me inbetween every upload 😂
Even though I can agree with the thought, spiderverse did the same for me it gave me strength to not just accept the fate no matter how many people around you have given up. The feel of lose is not like a worse feeling or anything, but I won't give one more respect than the other and if that part is clear for me spiderverse was a more deserving from me, and for me gibili is the fancy product that people say will make me feel complete but, I am fine with the sting I need.
It's sort of hard to put it into words I am not doing a great job at it lol. But sometimes I don't like too much ambiguity and symbolism and hidden meaning, sometimes it's better to just cry. It can still be very personal with just that.
The movie is master piece for a person who has the same situation with Mahito like me. I lost my mother when I was young too and the word Acceptance is really really powerful. Took me 13 years to recognize that after my mother dead. The scene when he ran through the burning town the way it depicted is so real that it brought me back to the moment I ran all the steps upstairs to see my Mom one last time. The note the Mother left in the book for him, my Mom did the same thing too. Every single books she bought us she left a note at the first page. When I accepted and moved on and let my Mother go, I recognized she is closer to me than ever. She is part me or in another word I am a continual of her and the proud legacy that she left on this world and things will go on and my children will be her masterpiece and legacy too.
I’d find myself, on several occasions, with tears in my eyes while watching The Boy and The Heron, not because of any obviously sad scenes, but because the movie just had that much emotional effect on me. While viewing, I didn’t really know why I’d be crying, but now I think it’s likely because the story is just so intensely human
The voice actor for Miles was mad disrespectful to Miyazaki.
Literally how apart from expressing he thought what we loved and played a huge role in should’ve won? Not like he tweeted “fuck that old man” he just said “robed” (😭)
@@namesrowan3288 because if he had any respect for Miyazaki's legacy he would have fully understood that they were not robbed of the win. The producer understood that they lost to a legend, but for the actor to say they were robbed is discrediting Miyazaki.
@@mamobeeomg bruh
@@mamobeeis it really that deep
@@DOG_EATER_1887 it's not. I just find it disrespectful, if you don't then that's fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinions
Tbh I think ATSV would have won if The Boy and the Heron wasn’t Miyazaki’s (supposedly) last film. the judges probably wanted to honor him one last time if he doesn’t get the chance to make another movie which is understandable. I don’t mind TBatH winning either way, it’s always nice to see non-3d and non-Western stuff getting attention (ATSV should have been at least nominated for Best Score though… your point about animation never getting recognition at the Oscars outside of its designated "kid's table" category is so true.)
thats how I felt as well. Im glad that TBatH won, but if spiderverse won it would have been awesome as well. But there in lies the core issue is that both should have won something!
Ok, so story from my experience. When i told my movie school teacher, about the whole "last movie" thing, she was appalled by my words, as she that tBatH is the obvious winner as it is most adult one, and then said "Then what else would've won? Across the spiderverse?". She has a background in movie criticism, but her words genuinely angered me.
Because, despite there are sometimes being obvious Oscar winners, every movie that has gotten to the finals got merit, or why else it is there. And since when we are judging animation by how "adult" it is. The medium of animation is all about expression, and thereby, it is more emotionally fuelled. Not like i don't agree that Miyazaki's work was stronger, but she said it in a way, as if Across the spider verse was another one of those generic CGI cartoons.
This whole thing made me think, based on does the academy judge which movie is better? Because animation isn't only it's story, but also the craft that went into it. Unlike in movies, there is no dedicated nominations for animation story and animation(as in process). Looking at past Oscar's nominees, i guess the winners are usually ones with the best package of both, but the whole list is the epitomy of robbed.
You might be right, but that says a lot more about the awards and the academy than it does about the quality and/or artistic merit of either movie.
I was incredibly pissed that ATSV didn’t get a nomination for best score, that was my most listened to ost last year but I’m glad Oppenheimer won.
The sea has less salt compared to spiderverse fans
😂😂🤣🤣
Spider-verse fans still salty about atsv not winning the Oscar award. 😂
I could tell from looking at that thumbnail.
Does it really matter who won and the grand scheme of things
@@jskywalker58does anything really matter in the grand scheme of things🗿
Everyone is salty over something
@@DORAisD34D Truest thing ever said
I watched it in theaters in the month of its release in my country. It's the last show of the day and after it, the mall will be closing. There were less than 20 viewers at that time and most of us are in our 20s-30s. Some even look like they just got off from work then immediately went to the theaters, just like me.
The Pelican scene from The Boy and The Heron is what caught me the most. The Old Pelican said along the lines of, "It is not our war but they made us fight for it" as it splutters blood out of its mouth and the life in their eyes slowly fades away.
Miyazaki is well-known for his opposition to war, hence that Old Pelican scene but me, a young-adult in his 20s who is burned out from work to finance my college studies, got a different perspective on it. That I should not be confined within the limits of what I should do now in order to succeed in the future. That one should live in the moment in order to appreciate the success of the future. For if I will be a prisoner of my own soul-decaying effort to preserve my future self, all of it will be in vain once I reach that promised destination.
First time I watched this movie in theater, I could really tell just how much this movie meant for Miyazaki. Like you said, this movie is made for a specific group of people, specifically for those who are really into animation and is a big fan of Ghibli itself.
I watched this with my girlfriend, and she had to ask me what's the whole point of this movie in the end because to her it just feels like a kids movie haha :,D
ialways get goosebumbs just seeing clips of that movie or even hearing a slip of the music its just that good
I’ll just drop my two cents and do a hot take here: I did not enjoy Across the Spiderverse. I know other people did, I see the appeal and I think the animation is stunning but it just wasn’t my cup of tea. I have never been a Marvel or Superhero fan and I didn’t particularly relate or enjoy any of the characters in Across the Spiderverse. Now I have yet to see The Boy and Heron but I have long been a Studio Ghibli fan and I can’t wait to see it. On free weekends my siblings and I will just gather in the theater room and binge a ton of Ghibli. The way you equated The Boy and the Heron to a home cooked meal/Across the Spiderverse to a 5 star restaurant is exactly how I would describe the contrast between the two films and how I felt about them. It’s like coming home to a warm house after a long trip away. Across the Spiderverse was big and flashy and bold and for some that’s what they want to see in their films but it’s not for me and it makes me really happy to see that Studio Ghibli is still gets some recognition even in today’s world.
The film is the definition of style over substance.
Nothing happens of importance. And while all that style had a purpose in the first film, here it just looks pointless.
Simply put, pretentious.
Pretentious is honestly wild. Nothing happened? The whole story had themes of choices and decisions that lead us to changes in the characters we became so involved with in the first movie. If you think nothing of importance happens you obviously did not watch the film.
What you said about 2D animation being forced to beg for scraps at the kid's table-- FUCKING NAILED IT. Also, the voice actor's statement about being robbed-- I understand he is a bit biased because he's the lead voice actor in that film, but that just comes off as really disrespectful to his opposition and made me angry!! does he have no idea what goes into 2D animation?!??!?! 😡😡😡😡😡😡 I really love what you said about how The Boy and the Heron made us feel. I think that probably played a huge factor because you're absolutely right.We knew what to expect walking into one movie and with the other, we didn't. That's the key. 👏 👏 👏
Thank you so much for watching! Yeah he for sure came across as a sore loser and a bad sport, but at the same time like you said he is the voice behind the main characters so hes just repping his home team. I couldnt agree more, the feeling i got from watching TBatH was honestly unmatched from any movie ive ever seen before
@@ZellyJPWhat I don’t get is the first Spiderverse movie won back in 2019. Why be angry about an incomplete sequel not getting the award?
I'm convinced that anyone who claimed that Spider-Verse was robbed didn't actually see Boy & Heron. It deserved to win on a technical level, a storytelling level and a filmmaking level. Just a gorgeous and moving picture.
The Boy and the Heron is a philosophical meditation on life and death in the form of art as animation.
I enjoyed both movies immensely, though I say I like Across the Spider-Verse a bit more. And while I'm glad that Miyazaki won another Oscar for what's probably his last film, I think him winning will not do that much about how the majority of the public thinks about animated films, ans especially anime films in general, since Miyazaki is practically a brand of its own, when people think of Miyazaki's film I see plenty of people that don't see then as anime
Sidenote, I find it kind of amusing the fact that Miles Morales and Mahito were both dubbed by the same voice actor, Emilio Treviño, in the Latin American Spanish dub versions of both movies
" since Miyazaki is practically a brand of its own, when people think of Miyazaki's film I see plenty of people that don't see then as anime "
So true, and extremely depressing at the same time when you think of how Studio Ghibli will 95% sure pass alongside with him when he does. Im just so grateful we got one more masterpiece!
@@ZellyJP I'm not sure what's going to happen in the future, but I can't see Ghibli having the same relevance in the future without Miyazaki. There's plenty of talented people in Ghibli, but very few of the non-Miyazaki directed movies have manage to capture the attention of the audience and critics, save for Grave of the Fireflies, Arriety (though Miyazaki wrote the script for that one), Tale of Princess Kaguya and maybe Marnie was here. Ever since Takahata's passing I think Ghibli has changed a lot, and even some memebers left the studio and founded their another one, Studio Ponoc.
It's difficult to know how the anime film industry is going to be in the future, commercially it has never been so healthier, movies like Demon Slayer: Mugen Train, One Piece Film: Red, The First Slam Dunk, Suzume, Jujutsu Kaisen 0 have become huge hits in international markets as well, and there's plenty of other famous directors like Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai, though they're not as famous in the West as Miyazaki, and while some of those films I mentioned were well received they're not thematically in the same level, some of them are more like Hollywood blockbuster equivalents, which isn't bad, but I hope that some new voices in the anime industry can make movies as deep and moving as the ones Miyazaki did
How do you live while carrying profound grief, rage, fear, when social demands are at odds with your values and emotions, in an unjust and cruel world?
Every single Miyazaki and most Ghibli movies just hit different for me. My favorite movies of all time are almost all just animated and most of them are in fact Miyazaki's and Ghibli's
Nostalgia talking for you not all ghibli movies are the same level and especially not tbath
@@vic85667 the boy and the heron? what do you mean i recently just rewatched a bunch of their movies and The boy and the heron is in my top 5
@@vic85667 Technically may not be the same level but to me all of them are above everything else apart from a few outliers like silent voice or suzume or your name
@@Arkhalis404 yes so it’s just nostalgia I’m sorry but logically Spider-Man had better and more innovative animation better développement the story line is good ect
@@vic85667 Its not Nostalgia Spider-Man is in my top 10 Both of them. along with some ghibli and those other anime movies i listed.
Oscar is just one aspect of appreciation. Both films had already got their best recognition of all time when the audience love those films
this ^
A large part may have been that Studio Gibli tends to treat their animators kind of well from what I have heard. That can't really be said for the spiderverse 2 team. Rewarding overworking should be only for when a film is a so far above everything else. When it comes to a close match, pick the team that did their project the right way.
the superior film won. Thankfully the correct decision was made.
The true winners were us the viewers who watched both of these films and were amazed to see both of them being amazing from start to finish!
THIS is the only objective fact
Finally watched The Boy and the Heron and I can say. I was blown away by the artistry, animation and music. The story comes full circle by the end and I can say I appreciate it. I’ll note the weird similarities to some of Miyazaki’s older films, but that’s to be expected. I disagree with you though where you equate Across the Spider-verse to the Michelin meal based on it being a big budget, bombastic sequel (my words😅). The same heart and emotion you felt from The Boy and the Heron I didn’t feel until the end. Whereas the Spider-verse served this across. Whether it was focally through Gwen’s reveal and consequences to her dad, Miles dealing with life as Spider-Man and not wanting to let his parents down, his parents worry about their child, Miguel’s desire for control to prevent the damage he previously caused in another dimension, etc. Capped on top by the tone of the canon and how Miles, could break everything just because he was the Spider-Man that should not have been. This crux of the story sits between the intersection of big hero movies and heart. And the mix of animation styles and the amazing score, which also blends orchestral with hip hop and rock is its own interesting thing itself. Liked the Boy and the Heron, but yeah, they were robbed by the Academy and should have won an award, the same as the Boy and the Heron.
I love both. It could have gone both ways. TBATH really filled my heart. at the end of it, I was crying and felt like i understood and didn't understand at the same time. It was beautiful
Seeing this in my notifications I was suprised, I did not remeber you nor why I subscribed. But watching this video reminded me of just that.
that means a ton thank you. I know i gotta upload more consistently so people can recognize when I upload. 2 months in between uploads is just horrible but thank you so much for taking the time to watch and glad you enjoyed!
Thank you so much for not using sound bytes in your review. There are sound bytes that I’m sensitive to so I’m glad you didn’t do them. And that intro HOLY CRAP IT’S SOOOOO GOOD! I squealed when you showed clips of the other nominees. AND YOU USED THE CINEVORE EDITS OMG! Hope this becomes popular soon.
ahhh thank you!! I only like to use chill transitional sound byted im not a huge fan of the loud meme-y sound clips. but im so glad you enjoyed it!!
@@ZellyJP I like meme-y sound effect sometimes but when I say sound bytes, I mean the sound clips from the clip like the brief clip you showed about the Iraq invasion. You could have used the audio for that clip for a few seconds, but you didn’t and I like that, because there are sound effects and audio clips that I’m sensitive to like war and audience reception when they collectively hate something. Plus, your review is short, but insightful. Very noice.
@@annikamarcelo3523 ahh that makes sense! And yes I am very intentional with my scripts, I have a very short attention span as most people do nowadays so I strip all the fluff and fat from my scripts and I think it helps the overrall quality
The reason why the boy and the heron won was because of its emotional core that can resonate with anyone.
Holly glaze 🙏 Spider-Man was objectively a better animation and a good story line nostalgia is talking
@@vic85667 "Objectively a better animation" how do you even define that? How is it 'better'? Yeah it's flashier but how does that make it better??
"A good story line" it's a part one. I'm not saying it's bad, its just a part one. So its hard to compare an incomplete story to a complete one like Boy and the Heron
Also Boy and the Heron also had an excellent story which related to death and creation.
Also how in the WORLD could it be nostalgia talking I'm 16 and I watched my first ghibili movie when I was 13???
@@a_viewer5386 "how do you even define that ?" The movie is not only flashier but have a groundbreaking animation combining various styles like 3D and 2D the movie itself is very innovative where in the other hand tbath is as always the same style where again in spider man the movie excel in distinctive visual styles for different Spider-Man characters and universes. The result is a highly innovative and visually stimulating film. "It’s a part one" it’s a part two and even this is not an argument it’s don’t change the fact it’s a good storyline adding more continuation in the story extension in the universe in fact it’s a good sequel "tbath is also an excellent story about creation and death" like spider man don’t use those subjects there’s a litteral death of a universe and it’s pretty much what the story is around spider man also talk about embrassing identity unity responsibility and legacy free will and caracther growth in the eyes of miles and Gwen becoming more mature and facing relatable problems that can also resonate with anyone and also the relationship with miles and his parents really worked in the movie tbath also have good messages but it’s really not that deep and already done better in others Ghibli movies don’t forget it’s the audience targeted is kids and 3 years is enough to develop nostalgia but maybe because you like animes
@@a_viewer5386 "how do you define that" it’s not only about being flashier 🤣This film is known for its groundbreaking animation style, combining various techniques to create a visually dynamic experience. It features a blend of 2D and 3D animation, with distinctive visual styles for different Spider-Man characters and universes. The result is a highly innovative and visually stimulating film. "It’s a part one" it’s a part two and even that is not an argument it add continuation to the story more complex storytelling an extension of the universe it’s should not even be an argument "also the boy and the heron is an excellent story related to death and creation" so is spider verse 💀 there’s a litteral death of a universe the story is literally around death and talk about many subjects like unity responsibility and legacy personal identity self acceptance free will and caracther growth in the eyes of Miles and Gwen and I think their experience with their parents can resonate even more with anyone and interaction are more realistic troughoug the movie we see the caracther becoming more mature tbath is really not that deep and have already be done better in other ghibli don’t forget the principal targeted audience is kids and 3 years is enough to have nostalgia or maybe you like animes
@vic85667 Just because it's ground breaking doesn't make it better. I agree Spiderverse has very good animation, that is very distinct and inovative. I went to the movie just for that.
HOWEVER none of that makes it objectively better animation. ITS DIFFERENT sure but not BETTER.
The Boy and the Heron is beautifully cell animated with fantastic hand painted backgrounds, wonderful character acting that makes them feel alive.
These are both amazingly animated films, and its basically impossible to say one is better animated than the other.
Part twos don't get any flack if they have an ending. Across the Spiderverse DOESN'T have an ending. It ends on a cliffhanger. So not comparable to Boy and The Herons story because it's complete.
Even then, people liked Boy and The Heron more because it themes are much more... real. It deals with a death of a mother. Something many people have experienced. Nobody has experienced the death of a universe.
I'm not saying spiderverse had a bad story far from it but, I find myself emotionally connecting with Boy and The Heron more because of my ability to relate to the characters. And all of that stuff about what spiderverses story is about? Yeah Boy and The Heron does that too.
AND it is "deep" arguably it is one of the best ghibili movies made. Mahito's dealing of grief is very real and, to my knowledge, is not shown in any other Ghibili movie. This is also one of the only Ghibili movies not only about creation, but Legacy. The old man wants to pass his world down but Mahito refuses. The old man is left to wonder what does he do with the world he's made now that his life is coming to an end.
And I would argue that the Boy and the Heron is not targeted at kids. The original japanese name for the movie directly translates to "How Do You Live?" Which is really what the movie is about. Many people are talked and agreed that this movie is more for the older crowd who have lived life quite a bit.
The Boy and the Heron is just as much made for kids as Across the Spiderverse.
Also about the nostalgia thing... no? Bro 13 SUCKED I never wanna go back.
It makes me wonder why you like spiderverse so much more than Boy and The Heron, why are you so mad that it lost? Tell me. Why should have Spidervese won? WHY is it objectively 'better'
from the war scene alone in TBATH i knew it was the greatest thing Miyazaki has produced, the way i watched in theaters so entranced by something someone made , had made me tear up, not only because it was sad but because the pure beauty of the art itself.
The thing with the spiderman movie is that all the style and colors was good for one time, then after that it get's repetitive.
Spiderverse felt like how modern talented artists really cared for their work despite being done in technology, meanwhile Ghibli still makes life with art while being traditional.
It doesn't matter how you make great art with traditions or technology as long it's intentionally human made, but AI is never an art itself and people tend to forget that.
I hope Miyazaki's fear of feeding folks with AI slop movies won't becoming an actual thing in the future.
So true
There's something most fans forget, TBATH provided something Spider verse didn't, an ending.
The storyline is far more superior as you said, but it also provide an ending to the journey. Part of spider verse downfall was not completing it's story. Now I'm not saying it is a bad thing to make 2 movies share a storyline, but it's definitely not a pro in the Oscar challenge.
I watched TBATH and although it didn't apeal to me like other Ghibli movies it is still better than spider verse in the animation and storytelling. Each frame is pure gold.
i watched the movie yesterday and i have some questions about the endig
1. When the grand uncle world was destroyed (tower collapsed) does that mean the pelicans are now free? since they were stuck on the island starving and thus lead them to eat the wara wara and they weren’t native to the magic world ? Does that mean they returned to their real world
2. himi burns and kills some wara wara trying to protect the majority of them and some wara wara get eaten doesnt that mean the dead wara wara also reincarnate again? since the wara wara are a reference to how souls are created and the the movie theme is about life and death and reincarnation?
and kiriko says that himi killing some of them with her fire will help the majority to be reborn doesnt that also imply that these souls also regulate anyways even if they get burned or die?
1) I think at the end when all the animals escape through the time door it insinuates they all were able to leave. There was no fish in the ocean, so they were forced to eat the wara wara in a vicious cycle of hunger, and pain but luckily were able to go back to the real world.
2) I assume since the wara wara that are eaten will eventually have another chance to go to the real world. I believe kiriko was referencing that himi's involvement its a net positive because even though she is burning some wara wara if she doesnt intervene then the pelicans would eat all of them.
The other world is "balanced" but the grand uncle wasnt able to create one absolved of pain and malice and thats why he wanted mahito to take his place. The Birds eat the wara wara, himi burns the birds, and the wara wara reincarnate, and all of this process has pain and death at the focus point
@@ZellyJP thank you for explaining the ending confused me abit and wara wara part was so confusing to me since they r souls and not actual living beings but ya i think the movie hints that life all about reincarnation and that life is a continuous cycle instead of just death
I never expected a ghibli film to advance in animation quality and was awed by the solid drawing of Boy and the Heron. It was stunning.
I know it’s a controversial movie but the boy and the heron hit me in a way not many other movies have. For me it’s one of those movies you feel a bond with and can’t truely explain why. That makes it one of my favorite ghibli films. (Although my #1 favorite is definitely the tale of the princess kaguya)
I think a real big point to keep in mind as well about the difference between Boy and the Heron and Spiderverse is that, regardless of how good or bad Spiderverse actually is, much of its success also rides upon decades and decades of pre-established fan loyalty to the "Spider-Man" brand, completely disconnected from any particular artists' rendition of Spider-Man.
Yes there is loyalty to Miyazaki as an internationally famous artist, because he makes great movies, but every single one of his works is stand-alone and unique from one another. I still find people regularly who are heavily involved in anime who have NO idea who Miyazaki or Studio Ghibli are. I've yet to meet a single person who hasn't heard of Spider-Man.
The fact that a stand alone film, even from Miyazaki, won over one of the world's biggest IPs, speaks volumes. There are a lot of people who think Spiderverse should win just because of brand loyalty to the Spider-Man IP and all of the familiar Spider-Man memeification that tickles some part of their nostalgia (a tactic that's used heavily in super hero franchises to increase commercial success cheaply), which is not a fair measure when comparing it to other productions.
Anyone who feels "Robbed" isn't making films for the right reasons. It's not a contest but about creating genuine human connection through story.
you get it, this is what miyazaki's film had that the spiderverse didn't. and it's amazing how that connection was portrayed through animation, while spiderverse's animation is just purely action.
loved this video and the analogy of the home cooked meal. hope this blows up!!
We are so focused on “who won”, which will always be subjective based on a small group of people which are voting. But I think it makes more sense to look at all the nominees as winners (they are after all still a small number of all the movies made). Being the final “winner” is just the icing on the cake as they say. But even getting nominated is an honor, and gets some people aware of movies that they otherwise may not know about. I can imagine there are quite a few Spidey fans that don’t even know about Studio Ghibli, and this Oscars may have led them to broaden their horizons and explore its movies. And vice versa for that matter.
I love both movies, but glad that Miyazaki won, since it is the more personal artistic vision, and will hopefully lead to new Miyazaki fans. Plus, Miller and Lord had just won an Oscar for part one, and have already raked in so much money with these movies, not like they needed another Oscar for validation, lol.
Everybody just enjoy the amazing creatives we have in animation right now, both in movies and on the small screen, it is an awesome time to be an animation fan !
I'm still delighted by the fact that The Boy and the Heron. This is one of the greatest winners in the category ever, a groundbreaking win for adult animation (It's rated PG-13), hand drawn animation, international animation and indie animation distribution as well, since this is the first win from GKIDS.
Sure, Spider-Man would've also been a great winner, but a less exciting one, since it would've been more predictable and fit the mold of what usually wins in the category: family friendly CGI blockbuster.
The boy and the heron is complex, strange, serious, but also a work of art coming from a personal place. In no way is a conventional winner with the history of the academy with animation.
This win is gonna age better and better the more people rewatch this film and get new things of it. It didn't win because of name recognition, it won because it was on the best animated films in a year with heavy competition
Omg, when you showed the clips from The Boy and the Heron, I started shivering and my heart accelerated. The way you described it and the music made it even better. I've never been so concentrated and disconnected at the same time, I don't even know what happened, it's a beautiful movie. I NEED TO WATCH THIS MOVIE FR
A movie should not be controversial just because there was another movie people wanted to win at a damn awards ceremony. You can love The Boy and The Heron and Spiderverse, how many rewards it wins or doesn't win shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Okay sheeshhh great video! I honestly didnt even know about the awards lol. That one line that you said there at 7:16 thoughhh that totally touched my heart ..
All of the little callbacks to his other films, visual callbacks in shots to totoro, spirited away, princess mononoke, and more, are what tells me you're right. This films audience is his deepest fans. The first one I caught was Mahito kicking off his shoes. It was definitely rotoscoped animation from Chihiro kicking off her shoes. Then the shrubby 'rabbithole' from totoro, and Mahito standing on the rocks like San, and those were all just in films first sequences. The callbacks kept coming up and it was just a joy and so special. I saw the film twice in theaters but I cannot wait for it to come to streaming so I can keep rewatching.
I wish you were a bit more specific about the comparison between the two. Boy and the Heron was a beautiful experience but it wasn't as emotionally gripping for me as you described. I would love to see a follow up video that dissects a theme or a certain scene.
Across the spider verse was good but it was a 2 hour trailer for a third movie. End of story
Maybe not trailer but it definitely wouldn’t make sense to give an Oscar to half of a movie
I love the depth and detail in your ideas. Truly such a well composed concept and video!!
Just be happy Elemantal didn't win .
When I first watched "The Boy and the Heron," I felt as if I were in another universe, as though I was experiencing it firsthand.
i'm so glad i'm alive while miyazaki is alive and got to watch some of his films in theaters as they came out 🥺
That analogy to wagyu and home-cooked meal really put into perspective your point, fantastic work.
05:35 You know nothing about that feeling of rejection if you've never witnessed how each and every animated masterpiece, be it from Studio Ghilbli, Cartoon Saloon or any other studio, lose to yet another Disney/Pixar movie time and time again. I'll NEVER forgive them for the fact that both "The Tale of Princess Kaguya" and "Wolfwalkers" lost. So I say get over it and let those who've been in the dark for DECADES take the spotlight
Im so happy for both. Congrats to the boy and the heron! Both are truly stunning
Another reason why the academy chose Boy and the Heron might be that Across the Spiderverse is a sequel, you kind of have to watch the first one to get some insight on what is going on in the film. But with Boy and the Heron, it is a movie you can just jump into without having any background or something you have to watch before. I personally enjoyed Boy and the Heron more than Across the Spiderverse because I had no idea what has coming.
lol that Dad who walked out of Boy and the Heron proves the kind of perspective that most people have towards animation.