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coggsie
United States
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2023
it's ya boy coggsie
check out my art!
check out my art!
Revisiting The Webtoon Problem
NEW ANIMATION CHANNEL!
www.youtube.com/@coopergalanis
Check out Scott McCloud’s article - it’s a fantastic read. McCloud is a true pioneer of this whole field of discussion and is obviously about ten gazillion times more informed on this subject than my dumbass:
scottmccloud.com/4-inventions/canvas/
PUTTING THE WEBTOON PROBLEM TO REST:
I originally made “The Webtoon Problem” because I wanted to make a video discussing different comic formats, and especially, the things I love about manga paneling. I wasn’t sure how to frame that video in a way that was interesting, and after a while I thought, hey, I know! I’ve always found Webtoons to be really annoying to read! maybe i can tie the two together! And then it snowballed into a hate-fest of the scrolling comic format as a whole. I guess I had a lot of latent annoyance for Webtoons festering in me - people would always recommend them to me, and I could never get into them because of how irritating I found their reading experience to be.
But the problem with this method of writing is that you run the risk of framing subjective issues as objective facts, which is what ended up happening. When I rewatch “The Webtoon Problem,” now all I can think is, why the hell am I talking about comic history? What does Calvin and Hobbes’ evolution have anything to do with discussing my personal preference for page formatted over scrolling comics? Why am I talking about phones? This is supposed to purely be a discussion of paneling! Really, it’s just shit writing.
The vast majority of people agreed with what I was getting at in my last Webtoon video. But some people didn’t. Most of which were obviously just malding because I was shitting on their precious power-scaling isekai. And those people can kiss my nuts - I really don’t care if my opinion makes you angry. But other people left long, respectful, well-written, and very insightful criticisms on my take. After reflecting on those comments, I realized - you know what? They’re onto something.
But I hope it’s clear that my personal preference for manga/page formatted comics HAS NOT CHANGED. I still much prefer manga over Webtoons, I still find them quite annoying to read, and I still have a strong distaste for their common tropes. This is not me “going back” on my previous points in an attempt to appease haters or whatever. I didn’t have to make this video, but I wanted to because as an artist and comic lover, and for the sake of my integrity as a critic, I felt as though I should - I don’t want people to think of me as the Webtoon hater guy, and I certainly don’t want to discourage aspiring artists that like the scrolling format, or want to use it to promote their work. We ought to make the comics we personally find beautiful, whatever format they might be in. Who am I to say one is somehow “wrong” and “bad”? Art is always evolving. That’s my new stance on the matter.
Music credits: Me. I produced the music, bitch. Call me jacob coggsier
check out my art!: coggsie.art
www.youtube.com/@coopergalanis
Check out Scott McCloud’s article - it’s a fantastic read. McCloud is a true pioneer of this whole field of discussion and is obviously about ten gazillion times more informed on this subject than my dumbass:
scottmccloud.com/4-inventions/canvas/
PUTTING THE WEBTOON PROBLEM TO REST:
I originally made “The Webtoon Problem” because I wanted to make a video discussing different comic formats, and especially, the things I love about manga paneling. I wasn’t sure how to frame that video in a way that was interesting, and after a while I thought, hey, I know! I’ve always found Webtoons to be really annoying to read! maybe i can tie the two together! And then it snowballed into a hate-fest of the scrolling comic format as a whole. I guess I had a lot of latent annoyance for Webtoons festering in me - people would always recommend them to me, and I could never get into them because of how irritating I found their reading experience to be.
But the problem with this method of writing is that you run the risk of framing subjective issues as objective facts, which is what ended up happening. When I rewatch “The Webtoon Problem,” now all I can think is, why the hell am I talking about comic history? What does Calvin and Hobbes’ evolution have anything to do with discussing my personal preference for page formatted over scrolling comics? Why am I talking about phones? This is supposed to purely be a discussion of paneling! Really, it’s just shit writing.
The vast majority of people agreed with what I was getting at in my last Webtoon video. But some people didn’t. Most of which were obviously just malding because I was shitting on their precious power-scaling isekai. And those people can kiss my nuts - I really don’t care if my opinion makes you angry. But other people left long, respectful, well-written, and very insightful criticisms on my take. After reflecting on those comments, I realized - you know what? They’re onto something.
But I hope it’s clear that my personal preference for manga/page formatted comics HAS NOT CHANGED. I still much prefer manga over Webtoons, I still find them quite annoying to read, and I still have a strong distaste for their common tropes. This is not me “going back” on my previous points in an attempt to appease haters or whatever. I didn’t have to make this video, but I wanted to because as an artist and comic lover, and for the sake of my integrity as a critic, I felt as though I should - I don’t want people to think of me as the Webtoon hater guy, and I certainly don’t want to discourage aspiring artists that like the scrolling format, or want to use it to promote their work. We ought to make the comics we personally find beautiful, whatever format they might be in. Who am I to say one is somehow “wrong” and “bad”? Art is always evolving. That’s my new stance on the matter.
Music credits: Me. I produced the music, bitch. Call me jacob coggsier
check out my art!: coggsie.art
มุมมอง: 138 328
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typical harem trash
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Love Hina, the manga that popularized the greatest genre of all time. instagram: coggsie.art
Just got a webtoon ad before this played. What a coincidence
Its kind of funny to be how im reading a webtoon as i listen ro this.... but yeah i understand his points... but i like webtoons some are utter garbage but every now and then i see some beautifully detailed and well done webtoons but most of the time i still like manga, espeically since i basically grew up with that over webtoons
If Bocchi the rock doesent get a second seasion till 2026 ill give up, because like HOW DOES RENT-A-GIRLFRIEND HAVE SO MANY SEASIONS?
ITSSS UNDERRAPPPRECIATEDD QWQQ LIEKE FORRRR REALLLYUOOOOO>>> ANDHGD SICKOOO MODEEN XDD THGEGEE CRYINGG SCENES WHEN MIDNIGHT DIED HITT ME HARDD QMQQ ANDHDHG LEIKEKE-- I DRAWW MAII NOSES TRAINGULARLYY CAUUSEEAA THEMM AWQQ
Got a webtoon ad on this video😭
i learned pochita is a she in this video thanks buddy 😭🙏
the invention of the webtoon is the greatest thing ever, it makes things infinitely more accessible and i thoroughly enjoy manhwa more than any manga; thank you!
No, it does not get better. It gets much worse. Remember when the author began taking his Chizuru Body pillow out on dates in IRL Japan? Yeah, those are now canon in the story. AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Wut
if artists put blanks spaces to controll my scrolling they have NO IDEA how much i speed up to get past the stupid ass sea of white. I scroll 2-3 times as fast if theres too much negative space. I hate it so much. I find webtoon borderline unusable because of this composistion. I just feel like vertical scroll comics could be better than what we have
Most webtoons are the same
Webtoon is slop
If you wanna see crazy panel work, look at Witich Hat Atelier
Manwa
You should read "Sweet Home" and the author's other work "Bastard". The artist masterfully creates suspense using the webtoon formatting and really helps contribute to the horror atmosphere. Regarding how "bad" webtoons are, it's likely that the artists are overworked and underpaid as usual. Making comics with colour AND shading, is not easy. =/
It's very ironic - I just saw an ad for Webtoon.
the real losers all along were actually the readers who wasted their time on this manga
awesome video, but gachiakuta made it better fr
This video is smart because his argument mirrors the regression webtoons have taken. Almost every point you made here is not very compelling . For starters, all the "advantages" Scott McCloud’s article lays out are not exclusive to webtoons. And his challenge of the Infinite Canvas is not replicated in webtoons, since webtoons are still very inadequate. With borders / long breaks mirroring pages in its 'clarity' effect and never even taping into the z axis, finding identy, or Distance. Secondly, your argument for not comparing webtoons to manga is because of quality. I would agree if we were comparing quality. Compared to Scott McCloud’s "Hearts and minds" the art quality pales in comparison to many independent webtoons in the quality department. Yet his display and philosophy-turned-vision trumps nearly all webtoons in execution. Hitting all the advantages webtooons lack. So, not comparing webtoons to manga due to "average quality" is not very compelling. Lastly, I agree with Scott McCloud’s quote, but if we want to push what is possible, then why do all Webtoos look the same. There is no limitless frontier webtoons are exploring, they have just stagnated, decievng people like you into believing the delusion that this is not regression.
Scott is based an everything he says is the truth. However, the web game is still (yeah still) weak af. Better ppl will join. more complete artists ffs and at least some non ultra-cliched stories. letsgetiton
At least there are some good and unique webtoons, like Sweet Home and 4 Cut Hero
pochita is not a girl........................................................................
If webtoons would be printed theyd be scrolls. See they r obviosly outdated. If scrolls are that great why dont we use them anymore. I dont even buy toiletpaper i search for a square shaped alternatives like magazines
you.... You damn i watch till the end and look what i gyaat
As a webtoon creator, who uses the webtoon format, I really REALLY hated the amount of negative space between the panels so what i did was try to reduce that space as much as possible between panels and i always worried that it might look cramped to people who are used to the usual format but tbh i found my audience and no one complained so i ocassionally over lap panels or use vertical panels to establish wide landscapes and try to make it all look interesting. I love manga with all my heart and hope to make a real one once i'm done with my webtoon.
5:44 NEVERMORE MENTIONED!!!!! I LOVE LESBIANS!!!!❤❤❤❤
reall
Its awesome if done right, its boring and hard to read when done wrong.
I'm sorry, but bibliomania exists. Nothing can be cooler looking than that one.
Epic.
Man, shit is free. Good enough reason for me.
I'll always remember the Greed Island chicken
2:35 STRANGER BY THE SHORE MENTIONED
I hate this anime, I found it in the most watched tab on tomato, I saw 6 episodes and dropped it because the relationship between the characters was very bad and the protagonist is simply disgusting.
Ahhh I’ve been trying to articulate this feeling for myself. Whenever I try to read a manhwa recommended to me, I just feel like my brain shuts off. The single scrolling motion feels stale fast compared to being able to roam your eyes over a whole page or two. It’s like being spoon fed by a machine hand and the only control u have over it is speed up/down, reverse, and pause/play. I also hate how all webtoons I’ve encountered have so much negative space with little to no artistic intent. I get it’s designed for phone convenience, but.. man… it’s like how companies use similar oversimplified logos. Easy to read, has a ‘clean’ feel, can still be clever, but when everyone’s doing it, feels old and boring really fast. Like, surely there are other/better ways to utilize the medium?? Why they all feel the same?
The ending was trash, Eren should've been on the farm with Historia holding her hand as he Keikaku dooris everyone of those traitors.
You should write fan fiction about it.
@@madeofnonsense3634 It was all set up by the author, he couldve been controlling with the warhammer's powers. Just saying
@@jaimeruiz7837 Oh Im not trying to be sarcastic. I mean it genuinely for fun. Im saying you could actually write an alternative ending with what you wished to see. You don’t have to post it anywhere. You could write it for yourself.
@@madeofnonsense3634 I don't need to, I've already thought it out way back when the manga ended.
@@jaimeruiz7837 Oh that’s makes it even easier. Have you written it down anywhere?
Love Hina is GOD
Why is there always so much white space? Is there a minimum margin between panels they have to abide?
One of my favorite webtoons is Bastard. I think it takes advantage of the scrolling format really well. It's like every single panel is a jump scare or building tension.
has been not a fan for years I rarely read webtoon , only reading Japanese serialized mangas
Ok that's great and all but an actual artist using AI art for quick B-roll on an art analysis video is some crazy irony
this is going to be my next read, definitely, you should make a video about tokyo ghoul, this reminds me of ishidas artstyle a fair bit, maybe its just me but yk
Really... manga is very creatively drawn, but webtoons are limited. The charm of the artwork decreases on phone screens.
I mean it's mainly an issue of the format using scrolling instead of pages, which also easily fits on a phone.
STRANGER BY THE SHORE MENTIONED???
Reading webtoons on the phone is easier than reading a manga page and having to zoom into a tiny area to read what one character or little comment says
Imagine webtoon but it is AI infinite scroll
stop glazing, art is mid
The only reason why I like the webtoon format more rather than comic format, is the sole reason of it being way to messy. Don't get me wrong some are very well made and easy to follow but for me, I always read comics or manga that I like, be so messy, it was confusing to the point that it genuinely made my head hurt. This is the reason why I like the Webtoon format more as its more easy to follow, I know that the comic format is more creative and makes the story so compelling, but if you give anyone that creative thinking then they would either make it good or make it bad, and most of them are bad ( For me though, I don't know if anyone has this problem ). The webtoon format just eliminates that problem though it is not as good as a comic format, at least I can follow where the story and not make me lose my way through the story.
There isn’t actually a problem ye are just bein dramatic for drama sake there still plenty of great webtoons like emmience in shadow XP
The art is great, the story is mid. It's biggest downfall is million characters that who the f cares about. Also, it's about high-school and it makes me poke, because most people who read BNHA are not teenagers, so this high-school trope needs to leave Japanese mindset.