The difference between afraid and annoying
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Been thinking about making this video for awhile. Ended up being a ton of work so I hope yall like it! This is an analysis of the coward archetype in anime, specifically looking at Stark, Zenitsu, and Usopp.
Inspiration for this thumbnail:
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Music in order of appearance:
Bach - Cello Suite No. 2 in D minor
Rain - Pableno
Fleeting Light - James.Ifo
I Will Keep on Wandering - WIlliam Claeson
Nafas - HATAMITSUNAMI
Lonely Starfall - William Benckert
Planting the Seeds - David Celeste
#frieren #anime #pey
![🎤 จับฉลากร้องเพลง x P’ #XXSIVK [EP.1] (2/2) เพื่อนจับได้คำไหน..ต้องร้องคำนั้น เริ่ม! 💓🎶 #MXFRUIT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1bJvMJXmeS4/mqdefault.jpg)
"Being afraid is not a bad thing.
It's my fear that brought me this far"
- Eisen the Warrior
its odd how we remember the scene, shows how impacting frieren is in general
It goes even deeper in the recent manga arcs. When called the strongest humanity's melee fighter of his time Eisen replies that he's just a coward and that he's only the strongest fighter *alive* - there were many who were stronger than him but they didn't know when to give up and retreat.
Ayeee my fellow fate lover
Fate??
@@gilgameshlfx7006 read that as ethan winters how cooked am i
I think another interesting thing about Stark is that other characters in the story ADORE him. Every town they stop in, he's just speed running side-quests and winning over the hearts of all the locals without even trying. He's got these ginormous shoes to fill, taking Eizen's place in Frieren's party, but in many ways I think hes taken on Himmel's as well, at least when it comes to being the party face. I think its another, really neat way to explore a character with very little self-confidence, who just happens to charm everyone he meets, not by being conniving or deceitful, but just by genuinely being a sweetheart.
Here is a 🍪 for you kind sir.
Indeed
@@nathanfernandes7085 I'm a lady, but thank you for the cookie regardless 🙏🍪
Not only that but I agree that he represents Himmel in a humane way too. He helps bring warmth to Fern’s colder personality like how Himmel did for Frieren. And although he may be a bit more sturdier than most humans he KNOWS he can die like a regular person. He isn’t a supersoldier like Eizen nor practically God Tier power spikes like Frieren and Fern. He’s literally a human like Himmel who just happens to handle a axe better than most both is his hand and in his side.
Great point!
oh my god
the idea of having zenitsu closing his eyes to block out the fear and relying on his hearing makes too much sense
that should've absolutely been what the writer went with instead of needing him to be passed out
Or zenitsu going blind
i really love your idea of zenitsu progressing to a point where he just closes his eyes to avoid facing his, but remains awake. it retains his character while still allowing for growth, and it would do a lot to make him less annoying
I’d also be kinda bad ass in a way like “leme close my eyes to fight you and get stronger cause im less afraid and can focus better “
@@DrPsychotic not to spoil the rest of the anime, but it’s not that far off from how his arc goes.
@@goldshot754 Thad be cool, I’m waiting for it to be in English to watch ☺️
@@DrPsychotic this makes no sense. english? to watch? sub titles are there for a reason. only by watching it in japanese/original language you will get the most out of a show
The sad part is for all the amazing visuals the team working on demon slayer is, the writing is very very incompetant and it doesnt make you care other than watching the cool fights
And that's why I've lost my mind when my friend said that meh "Stark is just copy of Zenitsu and Frieren as anime is one of those appealing to male fantasies" HOW CULTURALLY ILLITERATE CAN YOU BE?!
frieren as an anime only appealing to male fantasies?? i don't get why he would say that lol, that's a pretty odd and horrible take. (not being sarcastic btw, just cant word this better)
Are you sure you want to remain friends? 🤔
you mean like how Stark is effectively more useless awake instead of asleep, damn I must've been asleep while watching Frieren
I do agree its appealing to male fantasies. It's just not inappropriate in nature and I recent that male fantasies is used in this way
Is it a coincidence that it's far leftists girl with colored hairs?
"Can a man be brave if he is afraid?" Bran asked Ned Stark.
Ned replied "That's the only time a man can be brave"
when got had good writing
@@user-sc5wo7yy4k ikr
Ned from spiderman?
Ts hits deep
@@Abdullah_human Nah bro, ned from game of thrones
Bravery can not exist without fear. 'Bravery' without fear is recklessness.
A quote I heard ages ago, but I think sums up Stark and Ussop, and then Zenitsu. "There is a fine line between stupidly brave, and bravely stupid." In order to face their fears, S&U needed to be stupidly brave at the time of their decision. It's been like 9 years since I read One Piece so I don't remember a lot of Ussop's moments, but a really good example for Stark is when he fights the demons. The amount of bravery he showed to *take an attack that was his master's style* while FEARING that style, is absolutely mind boggling. Then there's Zenitsu, who you wonder how they aren't afraid of breathing.
Courage can't exist with our fear
This sentiment is something Eisen likely taught Stark as well. Eisen himself is portrayed shaking from fear before battles, but he says that fear got him this far to begin with.
@@Greaterthanmehuh do you mean without our fear?
since courage is essentially needs fear to exist
@@CerulianHimmel Zenitsu is goated,what are you on about,he carried the show for me
Usopp is a coward, but he's really funny and he's brave. He might be weaker than the rest of the crew but makes up for it with sheer ingenuity. I'd argue he more than earns his place among legends.
Early Zenitsu had me wishing he stayed asleep all the time. I tolerate him because he could be much more and we get a glimpse of that at the end.
I love Stark's character. Everything about the character speaks to me at a fundamental level.
Usopp and Stark are cowards but brave, Zenitsu is just a coward
Usopp was kinda shafted after the time skip. I wish he wasn't changed for comedic value.
@@JJ-xe6wd He does put in work in Dressrosa and Wano tho
Go. D. Usopp change post time skip, he brave enough to face Ulti and not take his word back
Haven’t watched that much of One Piece but his bravery in standing off against Luffy when The Merry was scheduled to be decommissioned is very commendable
Even without better character writing, Zenitsu would be significantly more bearable if he didn't spend so much time screaming in our faces
That's part of why I dropped Demon Slayer. It was just annoying to sit through the screaming to get to the "good" bits. And the "good" bits weren't great either.
The whole magic system is flawed, you just breathe in a different way to gain different abilities???
At first it was cool, you breathe properly to gain strength and endurance, but that devolved into breathing differently to gain different magic powers.
In before Zenitsu apologists say not only he isn’t a coward but also he is normal and not weird around women
Zenitsu always annoyed me beyond belief. I hate him so much.
@@Poke_Ieapcalm down
I like him purely because of his powers, but his loudmouthed antics get old. The perviness kills it.
Also he shouldn't be able to perfectly assess a fight and communicate while asleep. I can get his body reacting by instinct but full on strategizing?
I was so deeply disappointed with how Zenitsu was written/portrayed. I really wanted to love him because there's something endearing about the coward finding courage and a sense of self worth, but I just couldn't with him.
It can be confusing though because Demon Slayer women aren't written like they are actual people. Is it so bad to be weird to cardboard cutouts?
Another key part of Stark's fear is how it echoes Eisen's. Literally both having fear tremors before battle. Which goes to show that fear isn't something you get rid of. Overcome your fear and then you never get scared again. You are literally fighting against your instinct for preservation.
There is also a contrast between Zenitsu and Inosuke with regard to motivation. So many of the demon slayers, including most of the Hashira, are there for revenge, they are demon slayers to cope with the reality of what demons have personally done to them. Tanjiro too. Not Zenitsu and Inosuke. But Inosuke has reason to stay because he wants to fight, he has no fear. But Zenitsu is terrified of everything, of demons, of medicine, of training, of the Hashira. He is only there because 'Gramps' paid off his debt.
Which would be enough if their relationship was more fleshed out and he REALLY respected his grampa.
Off the top of my head have his grandpa believe he can learn all the lightning forms and he will get there some day, then have him die of old age.
Zenitsu could have been motivated by the guild he feels for letting his grampa down, and never becoming the person he thought he could be.
But then you'd have to show him actually having agency and try...
@@greatclubsandwich5612 Well, about that...
You've included Zenitsu's motivation in your own comment. Yes, he's only there because of Gramps. That should tell you how much living up to his expectations matters to Zenitsu. S01E17 tells you exactly why he loves Gramps so much.
@@magicfibre I feel like people forget that Zenitsu is largely also a depressed dude. His hearing is so great he can even hear their thoughts of him (weird, but it counts). He says no one expects anything from him, that he'll ever be something. He wimps out once and people will think he's no good (Which is proven by the amount of people who hate him), but he stayed around and trained because gramps believed in him, even if he ran away countless times. People forget Zenitsu genuinely hates himself for being a coward and wishes he wasn't.
Weird coincidence that there are two characters that are spelt/pronounced similarly to two characters from bleach
The zenitsu only braving it up for tanjirou's box and then it not adding up to anything is a case that happens quite frequently in media when the author loves the main character too much, and everything that happens must happen related to the main character. Frieren is a breath of fresh air because despite loving her so much, the author loves all the other characters as well, and gives them the developments they deserve independent of the mc's cause. Their emotions, bravery, cowardice, choices, growths have fluctuations and aren't treated as on and off switches that can be conveniently used whenever plot requires it, rather their ups and downs become important cornerstones of the plot itself.
The problem with zenitsu is that his fighting capability when unconscious never being addressed or properly talk about by the in universe characters.
It's make zenitsu uniqueness feels like a deus ex machina.
They just accepted that fact...
One thing for me that fall short about DS is this... The explanation... How do Zenitsu do this while unconscious? No explanation... Why Genya eats demon? No explanation...
@@SummerTokyoNeko Genya has no talents as a swordsman (so no breathing styles), so he eats demon flesh, which allows him to briefly obtain the power of a demon.
@@ChaoticMess5618 I dont read manga but did they ever explains how tho? I mean, he cant just eat a bird then temporary can fly right?
@@ChaoticMess5618 i mean why like how does he think it would work? why does eating demon flesh give you power? what is the reasoning behind it? I like when they tell you the mystery behind it...
I would also cite Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit for this trope. Bilbo starts off the story as someone who believes he has no place or desire for adventure, but after being cajoled into a real epic quest and facing numerous challenges in succession he grows in confidence to the point he's calmly conversing with a fire-breathing dragon by the end. Had he remained the reluctant character he was at the beginning throughout the story constantly cowering in front of each and every danger... well, it certainly would've been "realistic" it also would've been a pretty obnoxious arc for his character and duller story over all.
Great example.
Tbh it wouldn't have been "realistic". Not even remotely so.
People get used to things insanely fast. Especially when it comes to survival situations. Sure it's not always without consequences but desensitisation is a thing.
It makes no sense to be scared of something that you not only, have encountered but also killed dozens of times (looking at Zenitsu in this case). Unless you have a specific phobia born of trauma or something.
@@twelfthknight you are not wrong, but at least he changes. Not everything can be amazing in every aspect, but as long as the story or character makes progress it becomes better
@@danijellino1921 In BIlbo's case, he had a great many battle hardened dwarves and a wise wizard to help him get over his traumas. He wasn't *alone* and having to adjust. He didn't become a jaded hateful hobbit, far from home with no support. He was able to remain him throughout even as his confidence grew. That's why the story is good.
@@perrymeril You pointed out why right there, Bilbo had support. Zenitsu had nothing, in fact less than nothing cause his ex girlfiends took his money and ran. His only support was his old master who didn't lose hope despite him being a coward.
Bravery isn't a lack of fear, It's being afraid and doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do.
Even worse, zenitsu protecting the box is partially just set up for his other annoying trope where he chases Nezuko around.
he didnt knew who nezuko was tho when he was protecting the box
it could’ve been a gateway towards him learning how to protect others at his own sacrifice, he could learn how to turn fear into courage and that couldve been his start! But nope lets throw that away for haha funny scene
The chasing nezuko scene likely would just be something that could be brushed off if they actually grew his character but surprisingly that scene ended up being more character defining than him protecting the box
@@Zetsubou-69420he didn’t know who nezuko was, but he was aware that Tanjiro was carrying a demon in the box because Zenitsu’s enhanced hearing is able to differentiate demons from humans. He protected it because Tanjiro asked him to.
He didn't know who nezuko was at the time. He just knew the person inside was important to tanjiro💀
@@kanekikingstorm2113 yeah but the Original comment is implying that he was only protecting it cause he knew it was nezuko inside.
One iteration of the coward trope that really sticks out to me is king in one punch. He is the complete opposite of saitama, but supports his character really well. I thought that I would hate King as I'm not the biggest fan of the coward archetype, but King really grew on me.
King is also interesting because he does face his fear despite knowing he doesn't have any ability to rely on.
king puts on that poker face which is kinda in a way not running away.
give king a robot and a gaming set up and he is very much deserving of the number 1 rank. a solution im annoyed they'll never use or acknowledge
(Heck connect him to genos so genos gets some experience from them both)
@@Shaunshahriarbut he doesn’t really, he just stands there too scared to move with his heart pounding so hard it strikes fear into everyone around him and they run away. Like when he ‘faced’ atomic samurai, he just gave the sword back without slicing the apple and walked away thinking “damn, I’m done for now, he knows I’m weak”, but because of King’s reputation Atomic Samurai assumes he jut cut the apple so fast not even he could see it.
@@NaThingSerious King put himself in harms way by standing up to Black S to stop the deaths of the other heroes. He literally had no plan after getting the monsters' attention other than praying something would defeat them before they killed him. I'd say that was pretty brave of him. He also stood up to Tank Top Master and told him to lay off Garou, despite knowing he would get his demolished if TTM even touched him.
Finally someone made a topic about this. I love how Stark might be a coward, but he has *courage,* just like his master before him. And that's all that matters.
I would also point out that Frieren also doesn't treat overcoming fear as an on/off switch. Stark still showing fear, as well as flashback with Eizen shaking, points out they will always be cowards, but they do not succumb or indulge in fear. Further reinforces that form of Heroism where triumph and action despite fear is bravery, rather than bravery through absence of fear.
Are they really cowards if they don't succumb to it?
@@Orca_mammal succumb/indulging is like drowning in water, whereas stark shows bravery by swimming. Both are wet, but one swims.
@@magic_cfw who isn't wet?
@@Orca_mammal Fern since she's good Christian girl raised by a priest.... probably
@@magic_cfw she's also wet. (I don't like how that sounds). Everyone feels fear, some conquer it and act despite it. And those who, can't be called cowards reliably. So I wouldn't say stark is a coward.
You know what the best part of Stark's cowardice is? Its introduction and delivery.
He wasn't just scared of a big monster and then realized he can do it and gained confidence.
He was the village hero for a VERY. VERY. VERY long time.
He saw a dragon, froze up, and gave up immediately. He thought he could never beat it, that there was no chance, it was over. Dead on sight. He got LUCKY when the dragon walked away, and in his head, he had to stay now. He lived in fear of that dragon every day, thinking that one day it would come back and finish him off. And then, finally, he found allies that were willing to help him remove this threat, the threat that has HAUNTED HIS LIFE AND STAGNATED HIM INTO HIS OWN PRISON... and then, before they can even help... he does it all himself, learning that literally nothing was stopping him other than his own fear and himself. He could have beaten that dragon months ago, A YEAR, even!
He was forced to come face to face with the fact that his cowardice is useless, a poison that weakens him, *the moment they introduced him.* After all that... it was over in 30 seconds. Stark faces horror after horror, and every single time he is forced to confess he is scared, each time facing something seeming even more impossible than the last.... and every time, he gives up. Every time, he doesn't think he can do it. And every time, someone he cares about or something that is just and good and should be loved is put directly in harm's way, usually by said horror. And every time, despite his fear, his broken will, he steps up. Each time he goes into that ring, he goes with the thought and knowledge that he will die. He is not coming back. EVERY time Stark has picked up the axe, it has been with the understanding that he will die. And EVERY time, he is proven wrong, that he is strong, that he CAN be great, that the fear is POISON.
and it shows that each fight, he progressively gets more brave and even pulling smart tricks and 900 IQ plan despite being the brute of the team. he doesn't just swing and swang with his axe, but thinks.
and then there's zenitsu..... yeah
I'd also mention that he plays the role of a tank *VERY* well in MANY fights. Not only is he brave for facing his fears constantly, but also he takes the role of a distraction, of a tank, and of a frontliner very seriously. Rewatch the team fights where he's working with the team and you'll see he immediately dives in constantly to drag attention to himself. He has fears, but his duty to his friends outweighs those fears.
It's one thing to fight a monster, it's another to fight a monster with the GOAL and PURPOSE to piss it off enough to face you directly.
It's also what makes him truly brave. Like the quote say: "True bravery is not not feeling fear. True bravery is acting, takong a stand despite the fear". And every time he takes up the axe to face a threat, he is ready to die. He isn't foolish, or arrogant, he is ready to give his life for the cause. If that isn't true bravery, I don't know what is.
"Fear is the mind killer."
Fear really is the mind killer.
I remember describing Stark to my friend once and saying "He's like Zenitsu but........ better". Thanks for crystallizing why lmao
I agree that the lack of explanation I’m Zenitsus ways really drives home how annoying his character is with the lack of redeeming qualities
I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money
His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
@@w1nther930 Absolutely agree, the only reason zenitsu continues being a demon slayer is the trust his master jigoro had in him and to parts his love for nezuko, as if he quit he could never see her again. And while he is a very annoying character the change we see at the end of season 4 (the hashira training) where zenitsu is all serious has a good reason, which we will get explained in the movies the cover the final arc of demon slayer.
@@Snowy_Yuki666 Honestly, it's sad how Zenitsu's character is reduced by others because they forget his past, and they even prove his quote about running away
@@w1nther930I think you’re misunderstanding the criticism. And this only applies to the anime and it’s portrayal, because I did not have same issue with the manga. His past/ motivations/ backstory.. do not matter if he’s super annoying. That’s all there is to it. His portrayal in the anime is so annoying that when he’s on screen, and awake, he almost ruins the show. It’s just extremely frustrating. Has nothing to do with his past.
@@mattsims2112 I'd go so far as to say him being annoying does ruin the show. After the hype of season 1 and episode 17 we all had to wait for season 2. Watching that after a hiatus and being forced to listen to all the whining and screaming again was awful. It was too easy to forget just how annoying he was in season 1 and only remember the good parts. But nothing changed in the second season and I very much considered stopping entirely.
Another contrast between Zenitsu and Stark that I feel like is very important to highlight, is how in Demon Slayer, the "joke" of Zenitsu freaking out always overstays its welcome which makes it even more tedious. By all means let them keep their core personality traits, that's genuinely important. But for the love of God, watching someone scream out in panic for half a minute for the 17th time is NOT funny....
I actually talked about this very subject with a friend and compared these exact characters a few weeks ago so the timing was great 😅 Lovely video and great analysis as per usual!
I mean, its kinda subjective. I find it funny him panicking over anything. And its not something like "i have a broken humor", because its subjective
@@vittoriosavian9964when it comes to thing that are subjective, we use majority rule to determine whos right. Most ppl think zenitsu is unfunny asf therefore the jokes simply aren't good.
@@o0ugi860and majority is made by you? The majority loves zenitsu lol
@@o0ugi860 popularity is an incredibly awful and flawed way of judging art
I hate Zenitsu. lol
The issue with Zenitsu, in my opinion, reflects a broader problem with the Demon Slayer anime: it struggles with character development. The characters tend to be static because the anime relies heavily on their surface personalities to define and distinguish them from one another. Take the Hashira, for example. Each one is almost like a brand, with distinct colors, weapons, and identifying attitudes. Even the ones we get to know better have their own catchphrases. When they do change, it’s not because of personal growth or lessons learned, but rather because they encounter the main character, who singlehandedly drives the plot. Tanjirou’s role is to be a purely innocent, unchanging protagonist, and he never really evolves. He gets stronger, but it feels effortless because he’s perfectly suited for it. He is the plot. Zenitsu’s purpose is to be the cowardly character until the plot suddenly requires him to change, which is exactly what’s happening in this upcoming season-he changes suddenly, with no real effort or development.
Remember that early scene where Zenitsu bravely guards the box? That moment wasn’t really about Zenitsu; it was about Tanjirou. It marked the moment Tanjirou saw Zenitsu as a friend, coinciding with the introduction of the last character to complete their trio. The scene was never revisited because it served Tanjirou's development, not Zenitsu's.
Demon Slayer is visually stunning, but it’s a bit basic. It’s great for people just getting into anime or for younger audiences-essentially, a “baby’s first anime.”
This isn’t to say that Demon Slayer is bad. It’s just the way the creators decided to tell the story, and I think the anime’s other qualities-its artwork, premise, and high-energy moments-make it worth watching. However, it’s much less focused on character development than an anime like Frieren, where the plot is driven by the characters and their struggles. In Frieren, the characters must change and grow for the story to progress. In Demon Slayer, the plot moves forward regardless, and the characters change and grow only as it’s convenient for the plot and the enjoyment of the audience.
DS is, as the kids say, Mid. Its not the worst, but its quickly going to be forgotten.
@Pangora2 I think it's too visually stunning to be forgotten. I think the animation and the high emotional moments are so iconic that it's going to stick around for a long time. Kind of like Dragon Ball Z.
The animation is great but I kept getting tripped up by how bad the dialogue and character development was. you just kind of have to accept it for what it is and enjoy it when it's enjoyable and forgive it when it's not.
I really like the premise of 'Japanese Dracula'. The main villain is one of the most interesting I've seen in a long time.
Basic is a good way to put it. And I don’t even mean that negatively-a lot of people like their media to mostly be cool fighting scenes and visuals, and a story that isn’t too deep. I have friends who believe DS is the best anime ever and genius writing, and I think they have a sort of second-order ignorance about their media literacy skills.
@@thegodplace7887 When ufotable came on the scene in a big way with Fate Zero people were stunned, but the reliance on special effects didn't hold up as well. It will get remembered for a few scenes of sword cutting art, but characters and cultural impact probably not
I think tanjiros character development is pretty good. He used to have a lot of issues when the story first started but over time he was able to deal with them. I’m not gonna go into detail but I think the main characters writing was completely fine so I don’t see where the criticism is coming from ??
Fear makes you stronger
-Souls gaming
Your mixing up fear with bold faced stubbornness lol
@@alwayssecond2 Bravery can not exist without fear. 'Bravery' without fear is recklessness
When I played DS 2, I didn't feel afraid just annoyed that the world was so empty ( yes, there is worldbuilding but it is hardly presented to you ).
scout gaming
And hesitation is defeat
Stark may have overcome his fear of dragons and demons, but he'll never overcome the fear of waking up late and seeing Fern's pouty face.
People are NOT ready for infinity castle Zenitsu
Thank God you exist. I don't know how I would have survived this three month manga hiatus without your weekly essays.
His voice and use of music
the manga comes back the 7th
No way really?
Frieren: "Only 3 months?"
fun fact: THe creator of demon slayer ended the series early so a lot of character development that characters like the hashira or zenitsu needed was just absolutely rushed
I really wonder why, I mean, I really, REALLY don't like demon slayer but it was really popular. Why would the mangaka need to rush this manga when, usually, popular manga on the contrary get draged out ?
It just doesn't make sense to me
@@lahomi The creator probably only intended for a shorter story, but it blew up in popularity and they had to patch holes in the ship while it was already out at sea(kinda like one piece's author; but given how he has to keep extending the story, he has plenty of time to fix stuff up)
@@lahomiShe wanted to end the series quick and rushed a lot of the story plots and arcs which is why it has so msny plot hole and inconsistencies.
She didn't give it time to cook.
@@bunnyconcubus8468 yes I know and it is partially why I don't like it x) just... I don't understand why, that's all
@@delfuscreeto7552 Hmmm, I guess, but still, a lot of things makes me think that it was supposed to be longer but the mangaka had to make the story shorter forr some reason (like, the number of moon originally before muzan kill half of them without any good reason, the characterr really rushed, etc etc)
I love how you nailed every character in this video and I'm excited for Infinity castle ark because this is where Zenitsu actually faces his own fears without being asleep
SPOILER ALERT
During the Hashira training ark Zenitsu got a letter communicating that one os his fellow peers (Kaigaku) who is also a thunder breath user had transformed into a demon and that his Grandfather commited Seppuku due to that.
This is an inflexion point for him because while he does blame Kaigaku for his grandfathers's dead, he puts blame on himself for not stepping up against his own fear and showing his grandfather how much he's grown while he was alive. This is where he stops falling asleep and faces reality with his eyes wide open, even fighting against Muzan himself.
Although he's still a creep around women -_-
Zenitsu almost made me quit watching Demon Slayer. Unless he's asleep, I feel like he makes every scene he's in worse.
I did quit Demon Slayer because of him. 😅
I did quit cuz of him hearing he gets better at the end. It makes me wonder, "Why wasn't he like that sooner? Why must he be asleep to be useful/tolorareable?"
@@TFoxhound he relapses after killing the upermoon
@@ImNostalgicer that's worse imo my God
@@TFoxhoundthen don’t watch bruh holy crap why y’all hating so much go do something else with your time
I'd say that my favourite coward and insecure character in anime is early Simon from TTGL. In just a couple of episodes they manage to establish his fears, show his bravery in facing them and foreshadow the kind of man he can become if he gets over them. Him returning after his funk is among my favoutite moments in fiction.
Ttgl?
@@Kururu265 Gurren Lagann
Virgin Shinji Ikari vs chad Simon the Digger
@@paulmerviel1617 Broke "Nobody cares whether I live or die 😢" VS Woke "Believe in the me that believes in you!!!"
@@paulmerviel1617Shinji is a simon who never had a Kamina
The first time I ever liked a content creator milk a topic, I'm crying.
Making this video before getting to water seven hurts
Edit: honestly the ussop analysis was pretty spot on but still
Usopp's character is made pretty clear from the start. No more than week or two into being a real pirate he shoots Arlong in the face to save Gen, with zero support in sight. His fear is not an obstacle when it really counts.
Then what was going on on onigashima, with ulti?
If only most of Usopp's character growth didn't get thrown in the trash after Water 7/Enies Lobby
@@milkman2808 It didn't
@@milkman2808except it didn’t tho. If you’re referring to Dressrosa, then Usopp only grew more cowardly AFTER Robin was affected by Sugar, which means he forgot she ever existed, which means he forgot all the personal growth he had during Water 7 and Enies Lobby because he’d have forgotten about Sogeking and his entire section of massive growth in that arc. And even without it, he comes back to win the battle and become the MVP of the arc.
As much as I'm Demon Slayer fan, it has many writing problems and flat character building.
I really love more how many variations the fandom has taken on the possibilities each character has that THAT is what made me respect or like some of them and love the potential that world had (even if in the canon wasn't as well done)
Jujutsu Kaisen is one of my top 3 manga and I'll be the first to admit it has a lot of problems. I think a true fan can acknowledge the flaws while still enjoying the series.
@@gundamguy833 I have the same thinking! I also like JJK and I acknowledge what you talk about haha.
Still, what they made right is what made them a huge success.
In my case, even with their flaws (such as flatness in certain aspects or the vertiginous rhythm in decrease of building better empathy with characters) I was still able to enjoy, connect and being avid for more... I never was into fanfiction, AU, OC or such as I'm now around DS, JJK and BnHA and it was because DS open the door haha
@@CherryNah
I can relate so much to y'all
Even though I hadn't watched that many animes I still had my fair share of badly written ones, whether they were flat, repetitive or overall bad I still somehow managed to enjoy them in my own way, Iets add the fact that fandoms change alot of people's perspective on said anime
prime example for me is mha, at first I didn't have any reliable ways to watch anime so I tried to base my opinion of it from the fandom, and since a large portion of it is toxic and pretty cringey, I was sure it was a pretty shity anime but when I got the chance to watch it (AKA binge-watched all 6 seasons) I instantly loved it, even if some characters are poorly written or designed I managed to overlook those and focus on the more positive things, from there I was open to accept a lot more different animes and the community of said animes
@@gundamguy833so real. learning to tolerate the gege-cycle and enjoying the manga in all its jankiness did wonders for my sanity. sometimes you just gotta turn the brain off and raw dog it to enjoy it 💀
there are a few flat characters like tanjiro, zenitsu, nezuko, and so on, but there are some characters who definitely make sense tbh. the characters aren’t as flat as jjk characters, though that isn’t much of an accomplishment 💀
8:51 zenitsu is a demon slayer bc he is in crazy debt which is why he cant walk away, he also has huge respect for his master and continues to be a slayer because that's what he wants for him
Thank you for pointing this out, I was thinking the same thing! Also, they do show that zenitsu gets less scared throughout the show but for some reason he decided to fixate on season 1?
Yeah I feel the need to point out that Zenitsu has done several incredibly brave things while he's awake. They just haven't been during battles.
He protected Nezuko with his body without even knowing who she was. All he knew was that there was a demon who Tanjirou said was more important to him than his life. And after knowing Tanjirou for all of one day he was willing to put his life on the line to protect a demon he'd never met. There isn't a single other character in the show that would do the same.
When he was dying of spider poison he chose to keep himself awake in order to slow the poison as much as possible. He was in horrible pain and had no reason to believe help was coming at all. Realistically he was just extending his own suffering by not letting himself pass out. But he still chose to stay awake.
He stands up to Daki for the sake of a little girl he had just met.
These moments of bravery outside of battle are what make Zenitsu compelling and endearing. It's also worth noting that sleeping Zenitsu's power comes from his training while he's awake. The show is very clear about the fact that Zenitsu trained very hard to the point of skipping sleep to get the strength he has. It's just that his insecurity and fear stop him from using that strength when he's awake. If he can overcome those mental restrictions then it's entirely possible that we'll find out his sleeping self was always weaker than his awake self.
yess
@@ap7635 a little spoiler but yeah zenitsu does end up outgrowing his sleeping version by a lot, like the difference between fighting an irl sleepwalker and an awake ufc fighter
But the show doesn't feel the need to show that dynamic. If its a money issue, mercenaries that need money and lose a battle still run away. And his character isn't built up around honor like a stoic warrior so okay, his master wants this thing for him, but there's not a rebellious phase where he's questioning? Why not a "I should fight, but my master's training would go to waste if I died here!" We're just told he should stick around because he's a main character.
To really subvert the coward trope in anime, the coolest thing I've yet to see would to have your coward... give up. How layered and nuanced that would be that when someone is truly afraid, they no longer care about their "hero moment". It's innate self-preservation at that point. Basic instinct. To be afraid and not care to be brave in the end. I would love to see a secondary character give up.
I will never agree with the sentiment that realism can't be fun. I've always felt that anime was missing something. It feels like it always scratches the surface with character depth. Which is incredibly strange because I read Japanese literature like Murakami and Kawabata- who both go into the surreal depths of the human psyche and primarily focus on the intricacies and complex nature of their characters. To be fair, I know and understand that anime is supposed to be a "light medium" for everyone to enjoy... I get that most people don't want to feel empty, or question their existence after watching.
To me anime has always felt like: Character A is like this because pre-established B, C, and D. Sob story, dead mom, bullied. Just plug in a formula and you have an excuse for why your archetype exists. Okay, well humans don't act like that. We change and adjust and can be come unrecognizable for better or for worse. I am interested in seeing the "for worse". In quotes because who could blame anyone for being scared.
Edit: Shinji lmao nvm
I wonder how many times people have written whole essays on tropes or particular implementations of tropes they want to see in anime before realizing NGE beat them to the punch
Might just be me but i too am getting kinda tired of the OP hero whos brave has a harem and never makes mistakes beside the one time he let his sensei or friend die for development. Probably why I have fallen for NGE, no one is depicted as a perfect white knight.
Edit: Also for the first point I kinda agree, but i also want to see a “will to survive will sometimes be greater than the will to win,” aka the character being afraid to the point where its either they give up and run away OR just tap into the “fight to survive” type of energy since we sometimes get overfilled with the “win at all cost, even my life” trope.
Have you watched Jobless reincarnation?
It absolutely tackles some fairly heavy topics… I empathize so much with Rudeus too much for my liking but damn its great.
That's why I love that one character development in Vinland Saga Season 2. Not gonna explain further for spoiler reasons.
@@ickicki there is a character in jojo like that
I'm writing a story right now, and there are 3 main characters so far. Two of the 3 are cowards, but the reasons for their fear and how they experience and deal with it is different. the primary mc is dealing with the trauma of his father being assassinated in front of him and being unable to stop it. This translates into a not unfounded fear of losing the other people he cares about, and he experiences his fears constantly and it wears down on him. He just forces himself to keep moving as a distraction, and at one of the pivotal moments in the story when his friend is about to die, the state of panic throws him into a desperate fit of action disregarding his own safety to stop it. The other coward in the party is a socially airheaded magical genius. She is by far the most powerful member of the party, but the moment she realizes the primary mc might die, she freezes up and goes into shock and has to be shaken out of it by the weakest member of the party so she can save him. The one member of the party who isn't a coward is the weakest of the three. I enjoy writing these character juxtapositions, and I believe I've managed to do it well enough that none of the characters are annoying with their cowardice. But I think there's more to do to make the characters even more compelling, and this video essay shed some light on one part of that. So thanks!
I just largely thinks he's missed Zenitsu's character a lot.
He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money. His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
PLEASE FINISH IT I BEG ILL BUY THE FIRST COPY🧎🏻
@@w1nther930
True, either this guy didn't really wait for the last 2 arcs to be animated or just that he forgot S1E17 exists. And no, Zenitsu selflessly protecting Tanjiro's box WASN'T the only time he was selfless & brave while awake. During Season 2, He even confronted a demon he knew that is a LITERAL UPPER MOON DEMON, just because he saw the Upper Moon hurting a child. It is common knowledge for Demon Slayers to know that Upper Moons are invincible, untouchable & extremely powerful, yet Zenitsu of all people had guts & was selfless enough to even grab an Upper Moon's arm and told her to back off. These two were also not the only time, to shorten it; In the light novel "For Whose Sake", Zenitsu actually tried to confront an enormous demon because a girl was terrified of it. During Season 4, Zenitsu helped & even took Genya to run away with him so that Sanemi wouldn't hurt him (it was portrayed as a joke, but it was a brave action for Zenitsu). During the final arc, Zenitsu held off & fought Muzan Kibutsuji himself while motivating Tanjiro to fight for his sister's sake, a life whom he resides in an assumingly beautiful world.
@@AMercenary...Withaheart Zenitsu in infinity castle is a different beast entirely, he's hashira level and can fight awake. He wasn't that in season 3
@@w1nther930
No I meant the time when he confronted Upper Rank 6 Daki during the Entertainment District arc, NOT about Upper Rank 6 Kaigaku during the Infinity Castle arc. When Daki pulled the ear of a child until it bled, Zenitsu interfered, held her wrist & told her to back off, even after knowing full well that she is an Upper Moon Demon. That was such a brave & selfless action.
The closest reason comes at the end of the series (manga) sadly but I understand your points.
I feel zenitsu's growth is undermined by his somnambulism and generally character growths are also not explored as much in demon-slayer safe for with-tanjiro-hashira moments
Personally i felt that zenitsu was not only just a coward but he simply just felt like he was a pathetic person and that he thought he just wasnt strong enough to do anything but at the same time he does truly want to help people and save others even though hes afraid and thinks so little of himself, but when hes asleep he dreams about being the person he truly wants to be, someone whos strong and can protect people because to him its just a dream whiuch is why he usually doesnt remember anything afterwards. Honestly i feel like a lot of people forget thta many of the demon slayers who joined were either just straight up crazy or they had a personal vendette against the demons meanwhile zenitsu was just forced to become one due to his past.
And why doesnt he quit? theres a clear reason but many people seem to forget it. zenitsu always had people look down on him such as his past girlfriends who used him and the only person who actually believed he could be someone better was his master who was the one who helped him and paid off his debt and even when he did try to run away it was his master who dragged him back, so why doesnt he quit? becaus he obvioulsy wants to be that person his master believes he is and truly make him proud that is his motivation and its that very motivation that makes him get serious in the next season.
I used to hate zenitsu back in the first season as well but he eventually grew on me, I feel like people doent givwe zenitsu enough credit for who he really is behind his cowardly act and thats because they just dont understand him that well
nah the story should've given him a better arc
@@danielnidhiry5796 dont worry the better arc is actually starting to happen but we need to wait until next season
Great response! I couldn’t say it any better myself, I believe Zenitsu really embodies cowardice unlike Stark, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s important to acknowledge the diff. bet. fear and cowardice. At the end of the day, Stark was still brave enough to face that dragon and other strong opponents unlike Zenitsu so far who runs away or goes unconscious when his life is threatened.
@@danielnidhiry5796 they will (spoilers further down)
If you remember the letter zenitsu received during the previous season the letter informed zenitsu that his master ended up committing seppuku (ritual su*cide) after one of his other students ended up becoming a demon (the one who trained with zenitsu named kaigaku) and after hearing that news zenitsu decided that it was finally time for him to step up since he now truly has something to fight for and he ends up facing kaigaku in yhe infinity castle
@@kachiedits6231 ik but that was pretty rushed i prefer his arc being growing confidence as he keeps fighting demons
Zenitsu was funny at first, I remember laughing at his quirks at the start of the manga. But then it stayed a recurring joke with no resolution and I can't even remember if he lived or died by the end of the series. One of the central characters in the story is literally a joke, nothing more than that.
Which is sad, I agree with you that a coward is an interesting archetype. As anxiety being one of the lead mental issues and every person is affected by it in at least some degree in their lives, it feels therapeutic to watch a scaredy cat getting a hold of themselves and amount to something. It just hits home.
what is you talking about zenitsu beat upper moon 6 all by himself and fought muzan and you call him a coward (he was one in the start its called character development)
@@kmekosnk840 all his character development happened in the last part of the last arc. I love Demon Slayer but I can still point out that it has a huge flaw with pacing its character development to the point it hurts the story (with the expectation of their actual training/power scaling).
@@SpacemanTheo it has ahuge flaw with pacing in general bruh, zenitsu grew because he had to fight someone he knew before
@@kmekosnk840 not arguing that it's not a good backstory or a great climax to it, I'm saying that it there was no real build up and therefore that climax is soured. He's whiny and annoying and any bit of progress he does make (protecting Tanjiro's box) is immediately revert/ignored two seconds later. He's great on paper, but in the actual end product, he falls flat.
@@SpacemanTheo he doesnt, the only time he gets serious is when he fights against someone he knows makes sense
An important thing about Zenitsu to remember is that he also legitimately doesn’t want to be there. He didn’t sign up for being a Demon Slayer, he was cheated out of all his money and then his master paid for his debts, and it is only Zenitsu’s sense of of honor that has him go as far as he does, at least until he gains more resolve. I think in the show he has only even been on a few missions. There was the drum demon, then immediately after that was the spider demon, and then immediately after recovering there was the train, which he was asleep for, then there was entertainment district, and that’s it, oh wait, and the offscreen one he did that was in the snow. That’s basically 4 on screen missions, and 5 mentioned ones. Of course he is still going to be a coward at that point.
Honestly the fact that he got over his cowardice so quickly is what’s surprising to me.
Don't forget Zenitsu's trait which is his enhanced hearing, it's a plus with a big minus for his childhood which in turn make him the way he is.
The sleeping Zenitsu is the embodiment of his training coming to life, kinda like an exaggerated version of muscle memory.
Spoiler alert he never got over his cowardice he goes right back to being a wimp at the end
@@jjjyy5397yet he still fought, people want to trash on him, but he genuinely has had some character development.
@enzone1975 his "character development" is reading a letter and instantly changing his entire personality. He never stopped being insufferable
@@jjjyy5397 no, his character development was training with tanjiro and inosuke, making bonds with them, putting his life on the line for them. He stays true to himself, a coward, but what he does in the final fight isn’t anything short of brave.
Usopp at arlong park is such a great parallel to stark facing the dragon
This felt more like a critique on zenitsu than an exploring frieren video 😂
If only anime could get rewrites, then I think so many shows would’ve been so much better.
Zenitsu is kinda deserving though, imagine if zenitsu's character is similar to stark he'd be much more likable but it's somewhat redundant because half of starks character is in tanjiro.
@@P1zzaGuy I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination to give reasons for how he is. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money
His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
No, let's not allow rewrites. Keep the anime how it was originally written. Write your own series
@@w1nther930Wow, you basically sum up his entire backstory but never change the fact that he's a poorly written coward troupe.
Dororo was heavily rewritted
Same for Evangelion
The crazy thing is zenitsu unironically saved demon slayer. When the manga first released it was not popular because people thought it was too generic and dark but zenitsu actually massively increased the popularity in japan and essentially saved the series from being cancelled early on.
As far as I’m aware, zenitsu does get his glow up… eventually.
Ussop is still a coward that always runs away but he no longer does it out of fear, he does it because his opponents are gods in close combat so of course he’s going to run.
In response to those that complain about realism in fantasy: “News flash! The genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee!”
I love that insult lol
Me reading demon slayer: "we could tell whats gonna happen by page and age 5"
He does, yes, in the next season. This dude uploaded this video thinking it was definite,
while the end of the last season literally reveals Zenitsu doing exactly what this guy mentioned at 7:41 ..... That is literally the cliffhanger. Zenitsu finally locked in.
The last season also made it OBVIOUS that Zenitsu was MEANT to still be mid until now because they showed how insecure he is compared to the others, due to his lacking drive and ability as a slayer. The boulder training made this so obvious that missing it must mean one has something wrong their level of perception. He is far weaker than Tanjiro and Inosuke unless he gets serious, which he now finally did.
I am not defending him by any means.
If anything,
I'm just attacking the flaws in this TH-camr's manipulation of the truth.
He brings up things that have already been given to us by the narrative,
while he pretends the narrative did not give it.
Classic case of people hating on the "pervy character"
Look at Sanji, Mineta, Jiraiya. (Yes even Jiraiya before his final battle)
People always over-invalidate characters like them and ignore certain story beats about them.
"Watch the Zenitsu fans defend him blablabla"
No, this is just a neutral guy here, attacking a Zenitsu hater who is being biased and purposely ignores things.
I am NOT saying the story is amazing, and that Zenitsu character is/will be amazing.
I am just saying the TH-camr is wrong and spreading misinformation/manipulation.
@@michaeltb2746 the whole point was growth and the fact that zenitsu's gimmick overstayed its welcome. Also he explains at the start of the video how he is going to exclusively talk about the anime. No need to be ashamed from defending zenitsu he is decently likeable as a character he just lacks any sort of growth. Being a shounen doesn't excuse DS because Usopp exists.
Sometimes i wonder, about his gramp commit seppuku because of the other student.
Had it came to be known as early as the first season of DS, season 1 zenitsu would've still react the same way he does in the latest season.
Just to show that zenitsu dont have solid character development throughout the story.
He lock in in the end? i mean sure why not. First season zenitsu would react the same. He finally hate demon, like the rest of the cast. He got gimmick(sleep while fighting) with no explanation, lost the gimmick at the end(because someone he love died), and no other character development.
Another amaizing analysis and Starks growth seems only to have begun, theres so many things he does in the name of heroism despite his fears following the exemple of 3 great characters (Aisen,Himmel and Stoltz) that he feels like he cannot let them down, i hope one day Stark in the story can get momentos of those characters to represent them like his brothers cloak but all burned from the battle and heros sword in hand, the possibilities are so good for his character.
One interesting thing about Usopp: When Luffy meets a character he belives to be a coward he calls them out on it, he called Coby a coward in the beginning and he called Princess Shirahoshi a coward on Fishman Island. And the thing is Luffy is an incredibly good judge of character. Luffy has never called Usopp a coward, not even once.
Whilst I agree with a lot of the criticisms on Zenitsu's overall character writing; motivation wise I think there's a bit more to understand. The Thunder Hashira saved Zenitsu from a life of servitude by paying off a life debt Zenitsu has been burdened with (through his own incompetence). In the same way Stark is going on his journey to return to Eisan with stories, Zenitsu stays with the Demon Slayers to honor his master.
Call me crazy but I feel like that's barely ever mentioned or even hinted?
I think I remember that happening but that was like one time and after that; not much callback to it or anything, right?
I might just be forgetting smth but we know the other dude motivation either because of how they act or them straight up talking about it
Zenitsu cries and cries says I don't wanna be here and then gets mad at his friends
I mean it's been a while since I've seen the older seasons but thats the core things I remember about him.
@SultanRayko That IS Zenitsu. He cries that he doesn't wanna be there, yet he still stays. People just forget to ask why.
@@SultanRayko You know, it's quite easy to figure out why he doesn't quit. No one expects anything from him. He was neglected by his parents of proper guidance and ended having 7 ex girlfriends who all abused him and used him for money, with a debt of around 600.000 yen as a result. That's about 4000 dollars worth of debt. His mentor paid it all off, and whenever he ran away, he got dragged back. His mentor is the first and only person at that time to ever expect something from Zenitsu, and even paid off that HUGE debt, of course Zenitsu won't quit with this.
@@lapizlapoppy That's because we wish he'd just go.
I mean not exactly his own incompetence? Zenitsu was betrayed by girls he loved and thought loved him back.
That aside… yes, he is annoying in my opinion, wish he wasnt even in the story. XD
Very good video analysis, i personally haven't done a complete character study of Zenitsu but from what I've seen his cowardice is heavily influenced by his ambitions of finding a wife. Unable to socialize like a normal person he's forced to only socialize with the demon slayers (Like you want to join another social group but can't fit in, so you deal with a group you do fit into even if you don't like it). Eventually i feel like Zenitsu confidence began to only grow with these social interactions and friendships, his self image begins to become lower with thoughts like "Even if i can fight, its normal for someone to fear Demons, my actions and fear are justified, but here is someone like me but they're doing better. " I kinda feel like Zenitsu's main fear wasn't the Demons, but how others saw him.
I feel like there's something to be said for the idea of someone who's social anxiety wildly eclipses their fear of mortal danger.
@@hanegawamidori4081 Agreed, i haven't read the last arc, but after the last episode, it feel like his anger overtakes his anxiety. Causing him to not care how others see him and he's finally able to focus only on fighting.
I’m glad that Zenitsu finally locked in.
To be fair, its because Zenitsu is an actual coward, while Stark isnt.
Coward: a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.
The defining feature of a coward is that they DON'T have the courage or discipline to face hard things. Someone who faces it and overcomes it, by definition, isnt a coward
But isnt there many times where Zenitsu doesn’t give up? He always pulls through. Like when he stood up for the little girl Daki was bullying despite knowing he would be in danger and doesn’t budge when told to scram. He literally endured all the bloody and brutal training. He went from an actual coward in the beginning when he tried to run away from his training at first but grew as a character and learned to even abandon his fear at the peak of his arc when defeating kaigaku.
People hate on Zenitsu because he reminds them of themselves and they don't want to relate to him, he's by far not a perfect character but I really like him more over Jesus demon slayer (tanjiro) or female fan service who is insane (inosuke), he has a lot of flaws but when it's needed he doesn't back down
@@raeldri5867 People hate on him because (in the anime) he is constantly screaming for 30 seconds which should have been shortened to 5 seconds. 90% of the jokes around him fall flat largely because they overstay their welcome.
@@splatd7978 Idk, ive never watched Demon Slayer past like episode 3, and honestly, I didnt watch this video either
well yes, but that's his character development. I think OP is referring to his fundamental character at the start and for most of the show.
the most notable thing about him is that he does not like his duties, tries to escape training and scrimps on it whenever he can, screams and runs from danger, outright refuses to encounter demons unless forced into a chance encounter during which he promptly passes out and deals with it while unconscious. he stood up to Daki because he was unaware that was a demon who could pummel him and well.. in that form, Daki wasn't quite *unpleasant* or a serious danger.
also on that note, cowards can have a morals, but can and oftentimes will refuse to inject themselves into situations where that needs to be exercised if the situation presents to be a possible danger. after dealing with near death and demons with faces not even a mother could love, Daki in that moment looked just about low stakes enough to intervene. in comparison, zenitsu outright refused to go in and fight the drum demon and multiple times tried to abandon the kids or use them as human shields (which honestly is real), even though he wanted to protect them and felt like shit when he thought he'd failed.
so yeah he is a textbook coward and that's his point. I think audiences are so used to the bravado of anime characters that it becomes unthinkable when a character behaves like a normal person. I'd probs be running and screaming all the time too if I'd been dropped into a world with murderous entities and given a flimsy sword and told to fight for my life with zero pay (atp I'm just giving up I'm cooked). like erm? probs 99% of the entire human population would be like or worse than zenitsu, it's just that his behaviour is an outlier in a world where his sole companions are literal Jesus incarnate and an adrenaline-addicted homeless man raised in the woods and dressed in an animal carcass
in defense of zenitsu... In 1 season of ds we can understand why he can't just walk away from being a demon slayer. He feel guilt to his master, who was absolute sure about that zenitsu will definitely became a good demon slayer. In the show there was the moment where zenitsu himself explain his sleep superpowers: Because he is sleeping, he can imagen himself as a better person then he currently is. In his dream this boy can be confident, and i really like that main idea like: "nothing can be a biggest wall on your path, then wall your mind can create". And by the way i mostly agree with 90% of what being sad in video. oh and sorry. I'm Russian and my English is not so good. thanks for your attention)
Still makes no sense, since he's somehow able to talk, strategise and communicate while asleep
@@o0ugi860 It makes sense he can fight because of his absolute hearing, but other than that, yeah, how tf?
@@o0ugi860 ok. That's poor writing, I agree. Anime)
@@o0ugi860 Bruh, Inosuke that can rearrange his organs makes less sense than Zenitsu's sleep walking and subconscious talking.
@@o0ugi860 p sure it's because he's essentially dreaming about what he'd do in battle.
because he cannot trust himself and his capabilities, it's when his consciousness is all lucid that the him he wants to be and the him he is bleed into one, hence the sleep movement.
it supposed to show that zenitsu is actually capable, but because of his crippling low self esteem, he can't bring himself to believe it enough to apply it unless he's passed out, at which point muscle memory and his hearing take over.
tl;dr: it was all a dream °•°°
Who up here remember when Usopp dodged a villain’s powers because his anxiety was just THAT BAD, to the point where said villain dropped the battle shit and just started telling him to not give up on life.
Das my GOAT right there, NOBODY doin it like him 🫡🫡🫡
Well done on this video, but I did have something to say about zenitsu.
I can understand why people don’t like his character, since it’s kinda the point in the beginning, but I wouldn’t argue that it’s realism for why he acts like that.
Both zenitsu and inosuke are introduced as annoying and irregular people. We see zenitsu being a a huge coward, and lecherous. However, zenitsu’s is not just playing the coward archetype, but the something more like the crouching moron/hidden badass. We see that behind all that fear and idiocy, there is a competent demon slayer underneath, but he can’t.
Because of this hidden skill that he has, it creates more of a mystery as to how he was able to hone this skill and why he’s so afraid when he can be so capable, something that is explained much later in the story (I won’t spoil it if anyone wants to read it).
I’m not saying you can’t hate zenitsu, that’s kinda the point (even characters in the show acknowledge his shitty behavior) but overtime, we see him slowly begin to change, towards being both more responsible and less selfish.
And with the crescendo of his character arc happening soon with the movie trilogy, I expect people will be changing how they view zenitsu.
And yet I'm so hyped for Zen' in the last two movies
An old saying my elders said was I am not afraid because I'll fail I am afraid because I may not.
If you could've succeeded but never tried the sting hurts less. Then it only compounds with time. Because once you try and succeed you look back at all the times you didn't try.
Showing you that when you try you might succeed is the arch that should happen. It is inspiring.
i feel like a big thing that makes zenitsu not grow is because he has zero faith in himself and is just overall depressed in the hashira training we see what could have been if he had even a little faith in himself it shows he can come along way in a short amount of time
Note that the difference between Stark are the differences between a 16 years old and a 20 years old. At 16 years old you are NOT supposed to think about your future, you are NOT supposed to have a defined path and obv "walk away" is completely out of the question. I myself at 16 jumped into the most stupid shits imaginable and always imagined myself being an Olympic winner which is completely stupid in a nation of a billion + people of which a huge chunk (like hundred of millions) are more talented than me and NEVER made it. You do NOT get to be an Olympic winner easily period.
Stark is at 20 in the latest chapter of Frieren (god knows how old he is now in the LN) you should atleast know wtf you are doing at that age, where to go and what you are good at. Stark being "braver" than Zenitsu who was 16 at the time of the Muzan raid is... honestly completely expected and required of him. Stark is a fully grown ADULT and is expected to act like a man. Zenitsu... I don't think anybody is expecting a 16 years old to jump into a building and save the old lady and her cat while escaping completely unscathed. I think Demon Slayer has a lots of issues BUT Zenitsu switching between cowardly and brave is absolutely PERFECT for the show. It represents his AGE and MENTALITY, not knowing what he is supposed to do yet. I think he is like Usopp in a way cowardly people who would run immediately when facing massive issues, BUT always ends up saving the day one way or another in some bizarre ways. They are the usual 16s you see walking on the street, there should not be any expectation of them well even in Japan where you see 16s like Deku all the times, commiting to a path, becoming a real man and acting like an adult... I do not think even a little bit these are the normal traits that a 16 years old should have tbh. At that age I KNOW I was not, so wtf do I expect a fictional character could? Huh?
A coward isnt a man who fears but a man who allows his fear to stop him from doing what is right
Courage is not about being fearless. It is about rising above those fears to do the right thing.
- some wise guy whom I forgot
Im at 7:34 and i cant keep listening to this without saying something: Zenitsu doesnt know that hes fighting in his sleep. He has no idea whatsoever. He fully believes that hes absolutely worthless in a fight. thats why his fear doesnt change. he fully believes that he passes out and is a hindrance from his friends. And they actively discuss why Zeni continues to be a Slayer: Because the only person who ever treated him like he was worth something trained him to do just that. It is reluctant compulsion. He doesnt let down that person, but also fully believes that hes incapable of doing the job. He trains with Inosuke and Tanjiro to one day be useful to his friends. so that when the day comes where they dont "magically" win (because again, he doesnt know that hes fighting in his sleep), that he can contribute. He's been shown multiple times to have some form of PTSD from the hardships in his life. so in his mind, hes been treated like shit by everyone, and the one person who believes in him, wants him to fight effectively immortal monsters, on an almost daily basis, while he fully believes hes unfit for the task and is being sent to his inevitable death constantly. He cannot gain confidence like Stark because he cant see what hes doing.
I know what the letter says because i read the manga, and i can promise you this without spoilers: it is a very justified reason for him to face his fear and step up to the plate.
What I wont abide by, however, is your surface level interpretation of Zeni, when you have shown all of us that you are capable of a more detailed look. You have drawn your conclusion about Zeni and did not look any further than that, and frankly im disappointed in you. Im going to unpause the video and finish it because i do like your style and work, but I couldnt just keep watching and listening to you completely misunderstand a character who has been explained IN THE ANIME for why he does what he does. I dont know which episode it is exactly, but hes had flashbacks and such that go into depth about his mindset, even including the scene with the lightning striking him because he hid in a tree. So I wont let you say "The Manga mustve explained it because the anime didnt" because that is severely false.
Do better, Pey.
P.S. Zeni is nowhere near my favorite character, so this isnt coming from a stan or blind rep mindset, but it is something that has been explained and for you to pretend that you dont get it, is egregious to me.
True but i still bet people will be like *hes too op for his traits blah blah*
Great reply!
Nah
Completely agree
@@Zoomscoping my point proven
thank you. I found Zenitsu really annoying and love Stark, you explain it very well.
Also, I really hate how people defend a lot of characters because it's "realistic". There are a lot of super frustrating and annoying people in real life that no one wants to be around, so why on earth would people want to read/watch them UNLESS the writer had a POINT in writing them. Like we learned something or they grew into an enjoyable character. When the annoying character doesn't change it's like being stuck with that one relative that gets on your nerves for the whole family reunion and you're dying to get away from them.
ima pause here and address something that i love that you do. "if you find yourself back here consider subscribing." thank you for your realistic ask. when i watched one of your videos for the first time i appreciated that approach, but i didnt think i was gonna find myself back at your channel anytime soon. the second video popped up and i clicked. this line came up and i realized what had happened so i thought, "okay, thats fair. i can give a sub." then it happened again, and again, and again. you put out such consistent quality, and that line is perfect because it implies you arent looking for that one viral video. thanks pey
It's wild that 150 episodes is "a small chunk"
One pieZZZe
The "drawback" point is SO IMPORTANT, I remember thinking when seeing Zenitsu being a badass while unconscious "If literally everything about you is better when you're not conscious with no drawbacks, why would I ever want you conscious again?"
Ussop is a unique case, cause he fears those he believes stronger then him, if he were to return to say arlong park with his modern skills odds are he would wipe the floor with everyone but maybe arlong himself. Ussop only seems to be the same in the modern arcs due to the level of threat increasing with hin, he is constantly stuck in the position of being among the weakest members of the crew despite his increase in ability and strength. (I think this was something i had an issue with for a long time, how ussop had those moments where he was capable of soloing the fake strawhats, but then seemed to become a coward in future arcs, he didn't fear the fakes cause they were just that weak, in future arcs he was facing real threats so his attitude returned to what it usually is)
Stark is the perfect example of what Zenitsu SHOULD'VE been
To be fair in regards to Zenitsu unlike everyone else on this list he didn't choose his path. He was tricked into being a debt servant whose contract was taken up by the former thunder hashira. He then is forced to train under him. Every time he tried to escape he was captured. Now the only skill and money making way he has is being a slayer. The only person who cares about him in his life is the thunder hashira. So hes kinda trapped in his own life.
I look forward to these every week!!!
I could’ve sworn the title name was : when fear makes a character better
But now it’s changed oh he changed it right now ? Wow
You forgot plenty of scenes about zenitsu because he did not accept the life he was in, he wanted to live a normal life with no trauma but, in the manga it changes since he accepts that he is a demon slayer and that he has to get revenge. The unconcious parts are explained in the anime as he is dreaming of him battling enemies as a renowned person with a lot of confidence(not the same ones), and he trained so much after hours his body adapted since he needs sleep. His hearing is how his dreams are impacted in a big way. Also I think personally that the thunder strike was an important factor to the sleepwalking. Hope that made sense ;-;
Hey so uhh, I dunno why there's a clip of Sogeking at 4:55 when you're talking about Usopp. I appreciate giving some representation to a character that only showed up for a few arcs, but I don't see how he's relevant to any of this fear and cowardice talk. I guess if you count how inspiring of a person he is, getting Luffy back into the fight and convincing Nico Robin that she had much more to live for than being a prisoner.
For real talk, point 4 is a great point for people wanting to get into a tabletop RPG: make a character that will go on the adventure. If your character is constantly whining about having to do things, or that they want to do something else instead of the main adventure, or keep talking about how much they hate being around the other characters, then why aren't you playing someone that doesn't do those things? At least Bilbo Baggins was a good person and tried to help out the dwarves despite being drafted into their hare-brained scheme to defeat a dragon. Usopp and Stark care about their party even if they butt heads, and Usopp even leaves for a bit before Sogeking gets recruited, but he came back to the crew when he gained some self-confidence off-screen.
Zenitsu, for as much as I watched, really only seemed to be in the Demon Slaying game because he was a good boy and killing demons is supposed to be a good thing to do, maybe also infatuation with Nezuko. I imagine his life would be much happier if he was just a farmer or rickshaw driver instead of having to be comatose through what are supposed to be the most impactful parts of his life. It's like the Adam Sandler movie Click where he figures out he can skip past bad things like illnesses, and eventually it snap cuts to him in his 50s having woken up from heart surgery and liposuction paid for by his now-adult children, there is no fire in which to forge a better person.
A whole two paragraph joke. My man is dedicated to trolling lmao
the point of zenitsu's character is to show how he found a solution to being afraid and the trade offs are;
He is usually late to join the fights despite his power,
The lack of respect for him as a person showing why he can't grow as a character,
His reliance on him being unconscious as a crutch showing why he doesn't grow as a character coz him being unconscious is a reliable way(in the meantime)for him to fight and leading him think he shouldn't change if his method works,
People praising is power making him actually feel wanted and making him not want to change.
All this is going on in the head of a coward who is despised by nearly everyone around him for how he acts, who failed to learn all but one form of his breathing style, who can only use that one breathing style when he is literally knocked out, then waking up to injuries he has no recollection of. I like his character and his rare moments of heroism despite how he acts and that the consequences are internal. His annoying character tropes are clever way to contrast his immense power and how he could be way more if he changed. His character is also realistic in the way he doesn't change because many people don't change just because they are wrong.
The beauty of zenitsu's character is that he is in this cycle of "im weak" to "im actually strong" to "i dont remember being strong but people say i am" to "people dont like me except when i am strong" to "since im strong when asleep, i can make myself strong" to "i dont need to change since im already strong." Seeing him in this cycle makes him very interesting to watch.
I also just think this guy completely forgets Zenitsu's past. He's a guy who's been abused by 7 ex girlfriends, had a debt of 600.000 yen (4000 dollars) because of them, and his mentor paid it all off. His parents neglected him. No one wanted to associate with him. Only his mentor paid off his debt and expected Zenitsu to become someone great. Yeah, he runs away constantly, but his mentor dragged his ass back every time. He didn't give up on Zenitsu. Hell, large amount of the fanbase proves his quote. "If you run away once, people will think: Ah, this guy is no good".
I feel like Zenitsu's cowardice is more because of extreme self doubt. He thinks his victories are flukes, so he never believes he is better. On another note, an interesting take on a coward imo is Killua from Hunter X Hunter, he has a fear of fighting someone stronger.
The thing is stark isn't really a coward he's just inexperienced as the manga progressed he stood on business all the time even when his foes are stronger
stark is what we wish we could be but zenitsu is what most of us are, we just daydream about being great.
For me it's even easier than that. Zenistsu is annoying because every time he's affraid, he has to have these comically exagerated traits that manga/anime usually reserve for funny times. You know like river of tears rolling down his eyes getting out of they're orbits while he screams with his mouth a lot bigger thant what it usually is. I know a part of this video was about realism being boring or at least not being mandatory but I usually find myself annoyed by story not being capable of staying serious when they need to be.
Stark's fear can be felt through his words and actions. Just like in real life. We live in a world where we can't always have our emotions bursting out. A character well written for me shouldn't be screaming "LOOK I'M AFFRAID" all the time, to make me understanding it.
i really like zenitsu being annoyingly coward cause i dont think his seriousness now in infinity castle arc would be as hype if he acts like stark from the start. That's just my opinion.
Same
Issue is the lack of buildup to his character change. Doesnt do anything to earn it, just reads a letter so while its hype its kinda unsatisfying
That just makes it even worse? Him getting 'serious' all of a sudden is just bad writing.
@@Indeeee i dont think its bad writing.
Some people gets serious all of a sudden when something bad happen in their lives. You can be a very happy person then suddenly change because of traumatic events.
I think you raised an interesting point at the beginning of this video about the pursuit of realism in fiction. I mostly approach character writing and worldbuilding from the perspective of TTRPGs. I write my own campaigns and run a consistent game for some friends. For a little while, I was trying to make the world feel as real as possible, but after seeing a video essay similar to this one, I realized that what I was looking for wasn't a world that was "Realistic" but for a world that made sense. I think it is generally more important for the world/characters to make sense for how their written rather than be as realistic as possible, particularly in fantasy. If there is an entire fictional universe/world that characters have supposedly grown up in, they need to have a fundamental understanding of how their world works (see Avatar, Frieren, etc.) I think that's where a lot of discussion over cowardly characters being "realistic" goes wrong.
For the above reasons, Zenitsu and Usopp annoy me in their respective shows whereas Stark does not. For all of the reasons you mentioned, Zenitsu being a Demon Slayer makes no sense, unless it is a complete obsession with Tanjiro and Nezuko, he has no other reason to remain a demon slayer. And while people are free to disagree with me on the subject of Usopp, he continues to be cowardly throughout the One Piece story (at least to the point I've watched/read). I'm not trying to take away from his character development or achievements throughout the story, but he still displays the same cowardly tendencies no matter what enemy he is facing, and that grates against me.
I appreciate you putting so much thought into your videos, and I really love Frieren as a whole, can't wait to see what more you have to say.
The word I generally see used for what you mean here is "grounded", as in grounded in reason/sense and being fundamentally sound.
As for Usopp, though it's been a while since I've read early One Piece, I feel that his early presence is more about his unique voice in the crew of idiots, so he doesn't have as much of a narrative need to develop out of his cowardice-as annoying as it may feel if you're all aboard with the headstrong idiots (affectionate). As the Strawhat Crew becomes more and more of an undeniable threat on the world stage, Usopp's outright cowardice also reduces.
Skill issue. Zenitsu and usopp are goated characters
I have been going through this series of yours watching each episode of Frieren for each essay, and reading each respective chapter in the manga. It’s nice to hear you clarify that you are talking about Stark in the show. The best part about this is that the show is very close being one to one with the manga, save for some animated parts that are likely to fill time for an episode. I am enjoying this series. Excited to see the end for season one and so on!
Also I showed the first two episodes of the show to my mom and 3 days later you posted the essay about how you can watch Frieren with your mom lol
I personally disagree with this video, but I’m glad this is actually a well explained and justified opinion rather than the other videos I’ve seen where it’s basically just “this character sucks”. I agree that Zenitsu having to be unconscious to fight well is strange and makes no sense, but I just don’t care enough to wonder about it since I’m more curious about the world and overall story he’s in in general. Also, I’m pretty sure the reason why he doesn’t stop being a demon slayer is because his grandpa wants him to be one? Japanese society worry about social reputation a LOT. So much so that they don’t act out from the norm in fear of becoming an outcast. The same usually goes for family relations, which is probably why Zenitsu doesn’t stop being a demon slayer. Again, this is all what I personally think, but I’m more than welcome to friendly, civil debates in the comments/replies :>
@@bboywolf That too. I find Zenitsu really funny. He’s the type of character where you don’t feel too bad for him since his fear and reactions are always so overblown and exaggerated and it’s kinda fun to make fun of him. I get that some might find his constant crying annoying, but I just find his screaming and yelling really entertaining and funny for some reason. I can’t say much about One Piece or Freiren since I never watched those ^^;
im the same as you here. demon slayer is in no doubt great overall but i always find zenitsu's character off/annoying whenever he's not in his sleeping state. i never really cared as well i just thought its a normal thing for every other anime to have this one annoying character but this video explained it so well. his character wouldve been a lot much more interesting if they gave proper explanation as to why he is like that or if they have given him drawbacks while being unconcious. like tanjiro being op during hinokami kagura there were drawbacks. see how badass that scene was. now imagine if they did something similar to zenitsu. knowing he's one of the major characters he deserves that. seeing how great this anime is it overshadows how shallow zenitsu is as a character which is why we never noticed/cared.
@@jdjsajjd3188wow its almost like zenitsu’s character hasnt been completely shown in the anime yet because the main chunk of his story is for the moment in the manga which hasnt been animated yet, its almost as if all of his personality stuff and power stuff is shown and explained in the manga but hasnt been animated yet
brief explanation while trying to avoid spoilers: he’s treated terribly by everybody in his life until he meets Jigoro Kuwajima, who is NOT his grandfather btw hes an adoptive guardian, who teaches him to be a slayer and even though zenitsu feels he’s awful he owes Jigoro so he doesnt quit, so zenitsu is being thrown into fighting almost immortal beings while believing he is awful
meanwhile for his strength, its explained that the first form of thunder breathing is its strongest form, however zenitsu cant use any of the other forms (while jigoro’s other student can use all the other forms, but cant use the first form)
the balance for his strength is that hes a one trick pony, but its a good trick
@@Grand_Kaiserin_Elysium congrats youve read the manga there's no need to be condescending. i dont read manga and my point still stands. his character is getting flak because they ddnt explain his shtick early on. its already endgame the only thing they showed is a sob story and how he got his goofy ass hair, they left out the most important part. why? the part about mastering only 1 technique is common sense but the sleeping isnt. i said "his character wouldve been a lot much more interesting" and not that he isnt interesting at all. they ddnt give him enough depth. being one of the major characters why would they do it when the show is almost over?
i love zenitsu, i relate to him a lot 😭 abt him having to be unconscious to fight well - i dont think its strange, its just the way his character is (was) lol. ive always thought it implied that even if his mind fails him, his muscle memory doesnt; it just shows how hard he’d been training. the reason he continues to be a demon slayer, aside from wanting to make jiichan proud, is cos he genuinely wants to help ppl and to be of use to society. on a final note, i think the anime makes him way more annoying than his manga counterpart 😢 at this point tho im just happy to see zenitsu crumbs lmfao
I like Zenitsu a lot….but damn your arguments are sound and logical.
I still like him though. Unfortunately for Zenitsu his big pay off is in the end of the series. So many people that dislike his character may not be a big fan of his climax, since you have to empathize with him in the first place because its a very serious thing for him.
Also it seems a lot of people forget that he is in the Demaon Slayer Corp because the first person to believe on him, did not give up on him even when he show he is cowardice. That is his grandpa. His grandpa show both love and discipline and constant belief of Zenitsu.
His hearing was always able to confirm that his grandpa spoke no lies about his love. It is that very reason he is a demon slayer even if he is so scared. So he wants to not let his granpa down that is his goal.
But…..he does have his annoyances like when he is around women.
I will say my same annoyance is also Sanji from One Piece. He is so cool! But there is a woman and he becomes a creep….Sanji is so cool! But then ruins after a pretty woman comes into the picture.
I like Zenitsu and Sanji but they are not without faults.
But I think the point of Sanji and zenitsu is that they are very flawed. Yes it might be cringe but for me personally o find that very sad interesting
My issue with zenitsu is he doesnt have an arc. There is no build up to his change in the final arc, he literally just changes his entire character in one moment and it feels cheap and unearned
Yes. I like sanji too. And he was awesome pretimeskip even when he was a simp. It was funny aspect of him.
But oda changed him post timsekip. It became annoying af. I still liked him because who am I to judge sanji if I myself am a simp?
But still....sanji shows his simp side more outwardly.
Anyway....I just wish oda kept his simping trait a bit mild like pre timsekip. And give him the wildcard moments just like pre timsekip.
@@307nishchay8 I agree with that, that would be much better.
@@Calebe428I can see your point and to some extent agree (I heard the series was rushed in general but don't quote me on that) but at the same time, it's abruptness makes sense.
because at no point did zenitsu want to be a swordsman and no amount of chance encounters with demons could alter that. so he made a massive deal about his duties and despised it.
[spoilers ahead]
but when his mentor and pseudo-family dies the event traumatises him. zenitsu lost his literal will to live and that essentially allowed him to get over the mental roadblock that his fear of death posed in battle.
with his mentor and sole character motivation gone (because the only reason he was continuing on was to make him proud), suffering loss and becoming acquainted with the vengeance that motivates most of the hashira and even tangiro himself allowed him to achieve what almost all notable swordsman had: the sheer will power that comes about when a person has nothing left to live for.
when looked at from that perspective, his sudden shift makes sense; he's entered sudden and profound depression and is quite literally sewerslidal enough to lock in and get the job done or perish trying.
You really hit the nail on the head here. Interestingly, I also think another way Zenitsu's writing is much weaker than Stark's is the way their love interests are handled. The work that Stark has been putting in to improve as a person has a positive effect on his relationships with the other characters, and we see that reflected in the growth in his relationship with Fern. And then on the other hand, we have Zenitsu. Similarly to how he never outgrows his cowardice, Zenitsu also does not work to treat Nezuko better in any way. He likes her, and thus acts entitled to her attentions and affections, but that's pretty much it. Well, as least as far as I watched. I ended up quitting Demon Slayer once I realized Nezuko was going to be sidelined and Zenitsu was going to have so much focus. Comparatively, Fern and Stark are a breath of fresh air!
Is always funny to see people hating zenitsu while he is the most popular character in japan.
What is your source for that? Also just because he's popular doesn't mean he's well-written, the anime itself is a perfect example of that
@@firstsunrise8759 agree, just because he's popular in one part of the world doesn't mean he is in the others.
@@firstsunrise8759 manga popularity polls, zenitsu got 2nd in the first one and 1st in the second.
Also i'm just saying is funny nothing else, Japan loves the guy while this part of the world mostly doesnt like him or are neutral, thats funny to me.
He's popular in America too. For every person that talks about how poorly written he is as a character, there are ten other people who think " cool lightning powers go brr"
@@firstsunrise8759 he is adequately written
maybe im biased because of the final episode where zenetsu was locked in, but I don't find him annoying, if anything its nice to see someone grounded and honest with their feelings, despite being one of the strongest characters in the demon slayer corps
I've just finished playing Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree last week and considering the topic of this video, I want to bring in a character in that DLC named Igon.
The first time we meet him he was a broken man, his body lost its limbs and he kept on getting angry at this entity named "Bayle"; all the while you sometimes caught him getting PTSD Flashbacks on this "Bayle" figure, which sets him cowering even wimpering in fear asking for mercy, it was meant to portray how much of a broken man Igon is.
Long story short you learned that "Bayle" is one of the oldest Dragon to ever lived in the game and that Igon once fought him but lost his limbs in the process. The NPC that told you the story about Bayle gave you the task to kill the Dragon.
During your travel to find this behemoth, you encounter 2 dragons having a territorial dispute. Upon defeating both Dragons, you hear a distant laughter from a familiar voice; it was Igon.
What's interesting is that Igon begins to berate himself, calling himself out for his cowardice and then asked you to allow him to assist you in your fight against Bayle even as a Spirit Summon. It's clear that your victory against the two dragons reinvigorated his spirit and bravery.
Needless to say, upon reaching Bayle and summoning Igon, you are treated to what I'd call the most epic fight in Fromsoftware's Dragon Bossfights.
At the end of the fight if Igon survived, he will scream on top of his lungs and then declare "Bayle the Dread, you shall haunt me, no longer!"
Such an amazing character growth.
I think the way they could have made Zenitsu work is by focusing more on the relation between him and his grandpa.
It is established that he was the one person who never gave up on Zenitsu and because of this he is deeply grateful, it is why on mount natagumo he fights through beeing poisoned long enoughto be saved. And while they could have been more explicit about it, him becoming and staying a demon slayer is probably because of his grandpa spending so much time training him and Zenitsu not wanting to waste that effort.
Spoilers:
His grandpa is also the reason why Zenitsu suppresses/leaves behind his cowardice for the finale. Where it is shown that Zenitsus grandpa committed seppuku because one of his students became a demon, and Zenitsu as a result becomes serious and goes to fight this demon.
The problem is that all these points are kept either to vague or are just thrown in whith little development.
It also didn't help that conscious and unconscious Zenitsu where almost two separate characters.
This was an amazing watch in general, but god is it refreshing to see someone else agree that Zenitsu is annoying and not well written, thank you 🙏
This is honestly the best rational I've heard someone say for liking Usopp. Personally, I dislike characters like him and Zenitsu, especially in animation bc of the VERY excessive screaming they do, which I get but it would be disingenuous of me to say its not over the top... It kills those characters for me because I feel like its supposed to be "funny", but I am just simply not amused especially when its frequent. That being said, I never looked deeper into those types of characters and after hearing this I can say I might find a new appreciation for characters that can overcome fear bc of this video.
I don't agree with your takes on zenitsu, the only thing I kinda agree with is the troupe of being afraid all the time it was dragging but it was mostly for the reason of comedic relief, but everything else no, overall zenitsu is a great character, there's tiny bits of progression as he goes through each season and the main troupe of his character isn't being "coward", if you actually payed attention, you would know zenitsu has specific reasons as to why he's not confident in his ability to fight, cause he seems himself as a burden, since everyone else sees him in that way, ever since he was younger, his master is the only one that showed him compassion, he grandpa is also the one that told him it's ok to cry and be afraid, as long you never give up, which is where him sleep fighting comes into play as apart of his character, that part of zenitsu is a side of himself, he needs to accept, he gets out of his shell little by little, him being able to go on missions by himself, him being more respectable towards woman, him also seeing he has potential to be strong, which he didn't think before, in the hashira training arc, he finally shows that he will still try his hardest to become stronger but he also complains still, so him getting that letter, was the final push that he needed for him to change, also it's really nice to see he isn't completely serious, he is just now capable of gaining a lot of confidence, if you ask me he is realistic, well that's about it o
Bro we have fears but like Dune's quote: "Fear is the mind-killer.".
the whole point of stark is "no it's not"
@@raeplaysval who knows?😂
@@raeplaysval Not so. Stark "finding his resolve" is the same concept as Dune's "fear is the mind-killer" mantra. First, they must acknowledge their fear, then they have to find the courage to act in the face of it.
Cavendish from One Piece is a great example of a character only becoming powerful after they pass out. Oda explores consequences, an in-world explanation for why it happens, and hints at a backstory without missing a beat through the story.
I . . .get it
This is the best explanation of why people don't reosnate. For me, I love the subtle growths of Zenitsu. He doens't do good for himself, but does so more subtly, consciously when its for others, for those he see's powerless. The Entertainmen distrcit? The small girl he faced the other was one such moment.
Narratively though, yeah, the writing could have gone further to display that narrative for sure, but eh. GOnna share this vid with a friendo uvu
sigh ... guess debating or talking is pointless in this shitty race and universe, you are the proof and reasons for why i now despises humans even when someone tries to be gentle and considerated to open your eyes you still decide to ignore it and to not grow (how ironic) and in the worst case even become violents too and when someone is sick of it and choose to open your eyes with violence it still won't work but you will pretend that you didnt see this coming. This is not happyness inducing universe that we live in.
Also it's implied and directly said in the video that the "bs" solutions are still bad solutions so fuck the "unconscious" bs the only diff is that some weaklings or hypocrites say it's "tolerable" if the pay off is well written and good while they still admit that starting is trash in a sense yeah we can move on and forget about it but personnaly i think it still sucks.
What I got from the video and the comments is Don’t finish Demon Slayer, aka the anime you’ve been waiting to watch until ur of age.
Also, I feel a lot of y’all watched the first few eps and made ur opinion cuz some of these comments sounds like y’all only going off rumors about the show and characters😂😂😂
(Sorry if this sounded rude😅)
OMG! Thank you! Zenitsu was literally one of the biggest reasons I almost gave up on this anime. He is still by far one of my least favorite characters from anime, he is annoying, and you make a great point about the growth needed from the characters throughout the series.
I think Kobeni is also a good example of this coward trope
Bro...we haven't got to learn anything about her.
So it's too early to judge.
Why she snapped and went for the kill in that ep? Not explained.
All of a sudden she changes from coward to badass. Is it due to devil contract or just her core personality coming out? Not explained.
So it's better to leave her out of the discussion for now
What I LOVE about One Piece is that analyzing Usopp up to arlong park and after arlong park can give you two completely different deep dives.
The character progresses so much but not in a vacuum but in reference to their past. Timeskip Usopp is not the same character, yet he's not a different person. He is what Usopp would be having come from the Usopp that was at Arlong. He changes in reference to the feeling of powerlessness that came with his cowardly nature and challenges it directly on multiple occasions, and more amazingly he FAILS to completely change, stands back up and keeps trying to become less cowardly.
The best part is that its not just him, its every character
Kanchome from Zatch Bell is a great example of this archetype done well. Especially in the sequel series where he’s still cowardly but braver than we’ve ever seen him despite losing most of his powers.
Demon Slayer Mango Spoiler-ish:
My real issue with Zenitsu is that he didn't grow. I absolutely believe he had no character arc. He had a character switch. He got mad and became serious off screen. The final arc was coming and the manga ran out of time to grow him. I genuinely thought it was a setup for a joke when Zenitsu looked all serious when he got the letter, expecting it to be something ridiculous he became serious about. But sadly i just didn't like him at any point in the series. Stark is great though. Stark is the best.
I'm no writer but thank you for pointing this out. Cause I genuinely hate how in the Hashira training arc. They had the perfect opportunity to actually develop Zenitsu but they didn't. It just happened off screen. And then when we see him in the infinity castle arc suddenly he's able to actually fight. Without falling asleep or anything and winning against an upper moon.
Like if we were shown his whole arc of overcoming the fear he had and becoming stronger. And then when he enters the infinity castle arc and defeats an upper moon. It would have been more fulfilling to see. Since we saw him work hard to reach that point.
Him making up an asspull technique just to win the fight against Kaigaku made me vomit
That fight was the definition of payoff with absolutely little to no built up
@@teriyakiburrito3036 i mean, his "character development" was sudden. Because the death of his grampa was sudden. Not that he had month to think about the trauma of the loss, he got tped into the castle not that long after it
You're saying as if the main character of Demon Slayer Tanjiro grew as well 😂. He's still the same dude from chapter 1 all the way to the very end. The difference is just that he's married and more skilled.
@@FlowerFruitTea I do wish we would've saw this tbh. But tbf on him killing an uppermoon, the uppermoon your talking about BARELY became one. So i think it makes sense that he was able to defeat him. And even then, he was close to death.