It goes even deeper in the recent manga arcs. When called the strongest humanity's melee fighter of his time Eisen replies that he's just a coward and that he's only the strongest fighter *alive* - there were many who were stronger than him but they didn't know when to give up and retreat.
oh my god the idea of having zenitsu closing his eyes to block out the fear and relying on his hearing makes too much sense that should've absolutely been what the writer went with instead of needing him to be passed out
And the author didn't even go through with it because somehow Zenitsu can still talk while being unconcious, what's the difference between him being awake and asleep then??
True true, would have been very cool, but I think its kinda to represent what happens when you blackout and see major events or even seeing red and not remembering what happened afterward, but to be fair, it is all opinion
That's part of why I dropped Demon Slayer. It was just annoying to sit through the screaming to get to the "good" bits. And the "good" bits weren't great either. The whole magic system is flawed, you just breathe in a different way to gain different abilities??? At first it was cool, you breathe properly to gain strength and endurance, but that devolved into breathing differently to gain different magic powers.
@@QwertySpaceOfficiali wouldn’t say that the slayer’s styles are inherently “magical” as it’s just a visual cue for us viewers, really. the creator has specified that the level of visuals that are seen to us, the audience, are breathing styles that are dependent on the dexterity of each individual as opposed to whichever one looks the prettiest or coolest, haha. at the end of the day, the slayers are fighting with their own meticulously controlled skills that in which reflect their style, but aren’t an entity that they harness. the hashira for example don’t gain their title for the fun swirly effects surrounding their weapon of choice, but because they have honed their swordsmanship to a T and have personally accepted their role as a protector, beacon, and “pillar” of the corps. i derailed a bit from my original point because i am who i am (oops), but what i’m really trying to say is that the more fun stuff the “camera” sees, the stronger the slayer because of their hard work, not because they were blessed by some outer source and just so happen to possess a unique power that isn’t just a result of RNG. aka the “magic” isn’t what makes them strong. rather, it’s their dedication that makes them look more magical ! they don’t really control the elements like that, but it would be an interesting interpretation ? i rambled a lot so apologies if none of this made sense
I like to have those slice of life moments where you can breath between high stakes situations, but it doesn't work if you're seeing clowns in a circus
@@lucky6961 you do have a point, but if you’re talking about zenitsu specifically then at the end of the day, you have to remember that he’s still a child that has gone through a lot of life-altering experiences at such a young age that together have effected the way he perceives things. when i first started getting into kny i didn’t really like him too i’ll be honest, especially as a woman. i’d say that my love for the series and sympathy for the characters made me realize that perfection isn’t always easy and that helped me look forward to seeing more content rather than criticizing every little detail that irks me. this is a fantasy world that has fantasy people in it ! it’s not going to be completely realistic and, because it was a one-person team producing the manga, i’m frankly okay with plot holes. if anything, it’s fun to fill in the gaps with my imagination. gotouge (the author and artist) legitimately had to rush the ending due to - iirc - ailing health and although i wish we could’ve seen what their intended direction was, i’m still very content with what we have. i love this series a lot since demon slayer’s one of the first animes that made me truly feel for the characters in it. i’m in no way demeaning your comment ! just expressing my feelings on it :)
I think another interesting thing about Stark is that other characters in the story ADORE him. Every town they stop in, he's just speed running side-quests and winning over the hearts of all the locals without even trying. He's got these ginormous shoes to fill, taking Eizen's place in Frieren's party, but in many ways I think hes taken on Himmel's as well, at least when it comes to being the party face. I think its another, really neat way to explore a character with very little self-confidence, who just happens to charm everyone he meets, not by being conniving or deceitful, but just by genuinely being a sweetheart.
Not only that but I agree that he represents Himmel in a humane way too. He helps bring warmth to Fern’s colder personality like how Himmel did for Frieren. And although he may be a bit more sturdier than most humans he KNOWS he can die like a regular person. He isn’t a supersoldier like Eizen nor practically God Tier power spikes like Frieren and Fern. He’s literally a human like Himmel who just happens to handle a axe better than most both is his hand and in his side.
i really love your idea of zenitsu progressing to a point where he just closes his eyes to avoid facing his, but remains awake. it retains his character while still allowing for growth, and it would do a lot to make him less annoying
@@DrPsychotic this makes no sense. english? to watch? sub titles are there for a reason. only by watching it in japanese/original language you will get the most out of a show
The sad part is for all the amazing visuals the team working on demon slayer is, the writing is very very incompetant and it doesnt make you care other than watching the cool fights
The "drawback" point is SO IMPORTANT, I remember thinking when seeing Zenitsu being a badass while unconscious "If literally everything about you is better when you're not conscious with no drawbacks, why would I ever want you conscious again?"
Zenitsu is far more capable while awake. Unfortunately they’re comparing a character far onto their arc with a character whose arc is halfway done. Zenitsu is presented as a problem and no one gives him the most basic sympathy for it, he’s treated like garbage, to be tossed out and left aside.
@@nanovega3918 Very good point. "Unfortunately they’re comparing a character far onto their arc with a character whose arc is halfway done" And i think people missed out his memory regarding his master and the training during the spider fight.
@@ekcmanhe’s comparing season 1 stark with season 4 zenitsu lol what are you on. Zenitsu does become more competent at the end but it’s not explained at all
@@ekcman because demon slayer just has bad writing. It would not take long to use the closed eyes explanation. Instead he just becomes asleep, again, him being unconscious > conscious. Does not feel earned at all. His courage isn’t his. This doesn’t change later on either because we never even get a couple lines explaining how he got over his fear
A quote I heard ages ago, but I think sums up Stark and Ussop, and then Zenitsu. "There is a fine line between stupidly brave, and bravely stupid." In order to face their fears, S&U needed to be stupidly brave at the time of their decision. It's been like 9 years since I read One Piece so I don't remember a lot of Ussop's moments, but a really good example for Stark is when he fights the demons. The amount of bravery he showed to *take an attack that was his master's style* while FEARING that style, is absolutely mind boggling. Then there's Zenitsu, who you wonder how they aren't afraid of breathing.
This sentiment is something Eisen likely taught Stark as well. Eisen himself is portrayed shaking from fear before battles, but he says that fear got him this far to begin with.
And that's why I've lost my mind when my friend said that meh "Stark is just copy of Zenitsu and Frieren as anime is one of those appealing to male fantasies" HOW CULTURALLY ILLITERATE CAN YOU BE?!
frieren as an anime only appealing to male fantasies?? i don't get why he would say that lol, that's a pretty odd and horrible take. (not being sarcastic btw, just cant word this better)
2:11 I think the issue with Zen is very simple. He never really grows, or faces consequences for cowardice. Him being a coward is fine, but there is a lot of emphasis placed on it, with no real payoff either positively or negatively, leaving him just plain annoying
Usopp is a coward, but he's really funny and he's brave. He might be weaker than the rest of the crew but makes up for it with sheer ingenuity. I'd argue he more than earns his place among legends. Early Zenitsu had me wishing he stayed asleep all the time. I tolerate him because he could be much more and we get a glimpse of that at the end. I love Stark's character. Everything about the character speaks to me at a fundamental level.
Haven’t watched that much of One Piece but his bravery in standing off against Luffy when The Merry was scheduled to be decommissioned is very commendable
I would also point out that Frieren also doesn't treat overcoming fear as an on/off switch. Stark still showing fear, as well as flashback with Eizen shaking, points out they will always be cowards, but they do not succumb or indulge in fear. Further reinforces that form of Heroism where triumph and action despite fear is bravery, rather than bravery through absence of fear.
@@magic_cfw she's also wet. (I don't like how that sounds). Everyone feels fear, some conquer it and act despite it. And those who, can't be called cowards reliably. So I wouldn't say stark is a coward.
The issue with Zenitsu, in my opinion, reflects a broader problem with the Demon Slayer anime: it struggles with character development. The characters tend to be static because the anime relies heavily on their surface personalities to define and distinguish them from one another. Take the Hashira, for example. Each one is almost like a brand, with distinct colors, weapons, and identifying attitudes. Even the ones we get to know better have their own catchphrases. When they do change, it’s not because of personal growth or lessons learned, but rather because they encounter the main character, who singlehandedly drives the plot. Tanjirou’s role is to be a purely innocent, unchanging protagonist, and he never really evolves. He gets stronger, but it feels effortless because he’s perfectly suited for it. He is the plot. Zenitsu’s purpose is to be the cowardly character until the plot suddenly requires him to change, which is exactly what’s happening in this upcoming season-he changes suddenly, with no real effort or development. Remember that early scene where Zenitsu bravely guards the box? That moment wasn’t really about Zenitsu; it was about Tanjirou. It marked the moment Tanjirou saw Zenitsu as a friend, coinciding with the introduction of the last character to complete their trio. The scene was never revisited because it served Tanjirou's development, not Zenitsu's. Demon Slayer is visually stunning, but it’s a bit basic. It’s great for people just getting into anime or for younger audiences-essentially, a “baby’s first anime.” This isn’t to say that Demon Slayer is bad. It’s just the way the creators decided to tell the story, and I think the anime’s other qualities-its artwork, premise, and high-energy moments-make it worth watching. However, it’s much less focused on character development than an anime like Frieren, where the plot is driven by the characters and their struggles. In Frieren, the characters must change and grow for the story to progress. In Demon Slayer, the plot moves forward regardless, and the characters change and grow only as it’s convenient for the plot and the enjoyment of the audience.
@Pangora2 I think it's too visually stunning to be forgotten. I think the animation and the high emotional moments are so iconic that it's going to stick around for a long time. Kind of like Dragon Ball Z. The animation is great but I kept getting tripped up by how bad the dialogue and character development was. you just kind of have to accept it for what it is and enjoy it when it's enjoyable and forgive it when it's not. I really like the premise of 'Japanese Dracula'. The main villain is one of the most interesting I've seen in a long time.
Basic is a good way to put it. And I don’t even mean that negatively-a lot of people like their media to mostly be cool fighting scenes and visuals, and a story that isn’t too deep. I have friends who believe DS is the best anime ever and genius writing, and I think they have a sort of second-order ignorance about their media literacy skills.
@@thegodplace7887 When ufotable came on the scene in a big way with Fate Zero people were stunned, but the reliance on special effects didn't hold up as well. It will get remembered for a few scenes of sword cutting art, but characters and cultural impact probably not
I think tanjiros character development is pretty good. He used to have a lot of issues when the story first started but over time he was able to deal with them. I’m not gonna go into detail but I think the main characters writing was completely fine so I don’t see where the criticism is coming from ??
Another key part of Stark's fear is how it echoes Eisen's. Literally both having fear tremors before battle. Which goes to show that fear isn't something you get rid of. Overcome your fear and then you never get scared again. You are literally fighting against your instinct for preservation. There is also a contrast between Zenitsu and Inosuke with regard to motivation. So many of the demon slayers, including most of the Hashira, are there for revenge, they are demon slayers to cope with the reality of what demons have personally done to them. Tanjiro too. Not Zenitsu and Inosuke. But Inosuke has reason to stay because he wants to fight, he has no fear. But Zenitsu is terrified of everything, of demons, of medicine, of training, of the Hashira. He is only there because 'Gramps' paid off his debt.
Which would be enough if their relationship was more fleshed out and he REALLY respected his grampa. Off the top of my head have his grandpa believe he can learn all the lightning forms and he will get there some day, then have him die of old age. Zenitsu could have been motivated by the guild he feels for letting his grampa down, and never becoming the person he thought he could be. But then you'd have to show him actually having agency and try...
You've included Zenitsu's motivation in your own comment. Yes, he's only there because of Gramps. That should tell you how much living up to his expectations matters to Zenitsu. S01E17 tells you exactly why he loves Gramps so much.
@@magicfibre I feel like people forget that Zenitsu is largely also a depressed dude. His hearing is so great he can even hear their thoughts of him (weird, but it counts). He says no one expects anything from him, that he'll ever be something. He wimps out once and people will think he's no good (Which is proven by the amount of people who hate him), but he stayed around and trained because gramps believed in him, even if he ran away countless times. People forget Zenitsu genuinely hates himself for being a coward and wishes he wasn't.
One interesting thing about Usopp: When Luffy meets a character he belives to be a coward he calls them out on it, he called Coby a coward in the beginning and he called Princess Shirahoshi a coward on Fishman Island. And the thing is Luffy is an incredibly good judge of character. Luffy has never called Usopp a coward, not even once.
@@stevendemayo3631 well you've never watched or read One Piece then, if there's something that Luffy has never been beaten with, its his judge of character
@@stevendemayo3631 no, i think its because the definition of cowards to luffy is a bit different. Usopp is weak and easily live in fear but he has never runaway to defend something precious to him, heck he even fought Luffy, his captain to defend merry despite knowing Luffy is superior to him in every way.
I would also cite Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit for this trope. Bilbo starts off the story as someone who believes he has no place or desire for adventure, but after being cajoled into a real epic quest and facing numerous challenges in succession he grows in confidence to the point he's calmly conversing with a fire-breathing dragon by the end. Had he remained the reluctant character he was at the beginning throughout the story constantly cowering in front of each and every danger... well, it certainly would've been "realistic" it also would've been a pretty obnoxious arc for his character and duller story over all.
Tbh it wouldn't have been "realistic". Not even remotely so. People get used to things insanely fast. Especially when it comes to survival situations. Sure it's not always without consequences but desensitisation is a thing. It makes no sense to be scared of something that you not only, have encountered but also killed dozens of times (looking at Zenitsu in this case). Unless you have a specific phobia born of trauma or something.
@@twelfthknight you are not wrong, but at least he changes. Not everything can be amazing in every aspect, but as long as the story or character makes progress it becomes better
@@danijellino1921 In BIlbo's case, he had a great many battle hardened dwarves and a wise wizard to help him get over his traumas. He wasn't *alone* and having to adjust. He didn't become a jaded hateful hobbit, far from home with no support. He was able to remain him throughout even as his confidence grew. That's why the story is good.
@@perrymeril You pointed out why right there, Bilbo had support. Zenitsu had nothing, in fact less than nothing cause his ex girlfiends took his money and ran. His only support was his old master who didn't lose hope despite him being a coward.
One iteration of the coward trope that really sticks out to me is king in one punch. He is the complete opposite of saitama, but supports his character really well. I thought that I would hate King as I'm not the biggest fan of the coward archetype, but King really grew on me.
give king a robot and a gaming set up and he is very much deserving of the number 1 rank. a solution im annoyed they'll never use or acknowledge (Heck connect him to genos so genos gets some experience from them both)
@@Shaunshahriarbut he doesn’t really, he just stands there too scared to move with his heart pounding so hard it strikes fear into everyone around him and they run away. Like when he ‘faced’ atomic samurai, he just gave the sword back without slicing the apple and walked away thinking “damn, I’m done for now, he knows I’m weak”, but because of King’s reputation Atomic Samurai assumes he jut cut the apple so fast not even he could see it.
@@NaThingSerious King put himself in harms way by standing up to Black S to stop the deaths of the other heroes. He literally had no plan after getting the monsters' attention other than praying something would defeat them before they killed him. I'd say that was pretty brave of him. He also stood up to Tank Top Master and told him to lay off Garou, despite knowing he would get his demolished if TTM even touched him.
Stark's intro is SUCH a good representation of fear. Not exactly cowardice, but REAL fear. The dragon is POWERFUL, and TERRIFYING. And no matter how powerful Stark becomes, he can't SEE himself overcoming that power and fear. Even when he's finally convinced to face it, it's only because he's tricked, told he has to hold it off for a bit so Frieren can prep a spell. There was no spell. Frieren knew Stark could kill it, even if Stark didn't. She knew Stark would go all-out, because of his fear, thinking he had to just to survive. And the dragon wouldn't survive that. It's not until the dragon is already dead, at Stark's hand, that Stark REALIZES he did it. And he was TRICKED into it.
You know what the best part of Stark's cowardice is? Its introduction and delivery. He wasn't just scared of a big monster and then realized he can do it and gained confidence. He was the village hero for a VERY. VERY. VERY long time. He saw a dragon, froze up, and gave up immediately. He thought he could never beat it, that there was no chance, it was over. Dead on sight. He got LUCKY when the dragon walked away, and in his head, he had to stay now. He lived in fear of that dragon every day, thinking that one day it would come back and finish him off. And then, finally, he found allies that were willing to help him remove this threat, the threat that has HAUNTED HIS LIFE AND STAGNATED HIM INTO HIS OWN PRISON... and then, before they can even help... he does it all himself, learning that literally nothing was stopping him other than his own fear and himself. He could have beaten that dragon months ago, A YEAR, even! He was forced to come face to face with the fact that his cowardice is useless, a poison that weakens him, *the moment they introduced him.* After all that... it was over in 30 seconds. Stark faces horror after horror, and every single time he is forced to confess he is scared, each time facing something seeming even more impossible than the last.... and every time, he gives up. Every time, he doesn't think he can do it. And every time, someone he cares about or something that is just and good and should be loved is put directly in harm's way, usually by said horror. And every time, despite his fear, his broken will, he steps up. Each time he goes into that ring, he goes with the thought and knowledge that he will die. He is not coming back. EVERY time Stark has picked up the axe, it has been with the understanding that he will die. And EVERY time, he is proven wrong, that he is strong, that he CAN be great, that the fear is POISON.
and it shows that each fight, he progressively gets more brave and even pulling smart tricks and 900 IQ plan despite being the brute of the team. he doesn't just swing and swang with his axe, but thinks. and then there's zenitsu..... yeah
I'd also mention that he plays the role of a tank *VERY* well in MANY fights. Not only is he brave for facing his fears constantly, but also he takes the role of a distraction, of a tank, and of a frontliner very seriously. Rewatch the team fights where he's working with the team and you'll see he immediately dives in constantly to drag attention to himself. He has fears, but his duty to his friends outweighs those fears. It's one thing to fight a monster, it's another to fight a monster with the GOAL and PURPOSE to piss it off enough to face you directly.
It's also what makes him truly brave. Like the quote say: "True bravery is not not feeling fear. True bravery is acting, takong a stand despite the fear". And every time he takes up the axe to face a threat, he is ready to die. He isn't foolish, or arrogant, he is ready to give his life for the cause. If that isn't true bravery, I don't know what is.
The problem with zenitsu is that his fighting capability when unconscious never being addressed or properly talk about by the in universe characters. It's make zenitsu uniqueness feels like a deus ex machina.
One thing for me that fall short about DS is this... The explanation... How do Zenitsu do this while unconscious? No explanation... Why Genya eats demon? No explanation...
@@cxncxrtmxstxr Genya has no talents as a swordsman (so no breathing styles), so he eats demon flesh, which allows him to briefly obtain the power of a demon.
@@ChaoticMess5618 i mean why like how does he think it would work? why does eating demon flesh give you power? what is the reasoning behind it? I like when they tell you the mystery behind it...
@@SarYia. Their's literally a saying "put on a brave face" for when someone feels discouraged, dissatisfied, afraid, etc. It's not "put on a courage face ". Although honestly I think your whole argument is pedantic and the words are interchangeable.
I like him purely because of his powers, but his loudmouthed antics get old. The perviness kills it. Also he shouldn't be able to perfectly assess a fight and communicate while asleep. I can get his body reacting by instinct but full on strategizing?
I was so deeply disappointed with how Zenitsu was written/portrayed. I really wanted to love him because there's something endearing about the coward finding courage and a sense of self worth, but I just couldn't with him.
I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him. No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward. He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy. The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
@@w1nther930 Absolutely agree, the only reason zenitsu continues being a demon slayer is the trust his master jigoro had in him and to parts his love for nezuko, as if he quit he could never see her again. And while he is a very annoying character the change we see at the end of season 4 (the hashira training) where zenitsu is all serious has a good reason, which we will get explained in the movies the cover the final arc of demon slayer.
@@Snowy_Yuki_X3 Honestly, it's sad how Zenitsu's character is reduced by others because they forget his past, and they even prove his quote about running away
@@w1nther930I think you’re misunderstanding the criticism. And this only applies to the anime and it’s portrayal, because I did not have same issue with the manga. His past/ motivations/ backstory.. do not matter if he’s super annoying. That’s all there is to it. His portrayal in the anime is so annoying that when he’s on screen, and awake, he almost ruins the show. It’s just extremely frustrating. Has nothing to do with his past.
@@StantonSims2112 I'd go so far as to say him being annoying does ruin the show. After the hype of season 1 and episode 17 we all had to wait for season 2. Watching that after a hiatus and being forced to listen to all the whining and screaming again was awful. It was too easy to forget just how annoying he was in season 1 and only remember the good parts. But nothing changed in the second season and I very much considered stopping entirely.
it could’ve been a gateway towards him learning how to protect others at his own sacrifice, he could learn how to turn fear into courage and that couldve been his start! But nope lets throw that away for haha funny scene The chasing nezuko scene likely would just be something that could be brushed off if they actually grew his character but surprisingly that scene ended up being more character defining than him protecting the box
@@Zetsubou-69420he didn’t know who nezuko was, but he was aware that Tanjiro was carrying a demon in the box because Zenitsu’s enhanced hearing is able to differentiate demons from humans. He protected it because Tanjiro asked him to.
The zenitsu only braving it up for tanjirou's box and then it not adding up to anything is a case that happens quite frequently in media when the author loves the main character too much, and everything that happens must happen related to the main character. Frieren is a breath of fresh air because despite loving her so much, the author loves all the other characters as well, and gives them the developments they deserve independent of the mc's cause. Their emotions, bravery, cowardice, choices, growths have fluctuations and aren't treated as on and off switches that can be conveniently used whenever plot requires it, rather their ups and downs become important cornerstones of the plot itself.
What's hilarious is that demon slayer just has bad writing. I watched the first season and an ova/movie/whatever and the only trait I know the MC has is "Loves sister. Works hard." Like people dog on Kirito from sao for being bland... demon slayer imo is somehow worse or equal.
literally zenitsu standing up against daki to protect the girl- like yall are just Alzheimer patients fr. demon slayer is meant to be dumb fun, everything doesnt have to be philosophical like chill tf out
Another contrast between Zenitsu and Stark that I feel like is very important to highlight, is how in Demon Slayer, the "joke" of Zenitsu freaking out always overstays its welcome which makes it even more tedious. By all means let them keep their core personality traits, that's genuinely important. But for the love of God, watching someone scream out in panic for half a minute for the 17th time is NOT funny.... I actually talked about this very subject with a friend and compared these exact characters a few weeks ago so the timing was great 😅 Lovely video and great analysis as per usual!
@@vittoriosavian9964when it comes to thing that are subjective, we use majority rule to determine whos right. Most ppl think zenitsu is unfunny asf therefore the jokes simply aren't good.
I often think of the Leap of Faith scene in Spiderverse when it comes to bravery/fear. The glass that Miles was holding onto shattering when he jumps wasn't just because it was cool in the moment - it was already established that he can't unstick himself when he's afraid. We don't just infer that he was probably afraid at that moment, we KNOW he was - and he leaped anyway.
Finally someone made a topic about this. I love how Stark might be a coward, but he has *courage,* just like his master before him. And that's all that matters.
Cavendish from One Piece is a great example of a character only becoming powerful after they pass out. Oda explores consequences, an in-world explanation for why it happens, and hints at a backstory without missing a beat through the story.
Who up here remember when Usopp dodged a villain’s powers because his anxiety was just THAT BAD, to the point where said villain dropped the battle shit and just started telling him to not give up on life. Das my GOAT right there, NOBODY doin it like him 🫡🫡🫡
fun fact: THe creator of demon slayer ended the series early so a lot of character development that characters like the hashira or zenitsu needed was just absolutely rushed
I really wonder why, I mean, I really, REALLY don't like demon slayer but it was really popular. Why would the mangaka need to rush this manga when, usually, popular manga on the contrary get draged out ? It just doesn't make sense to me
@@lahomi The creator probably only intended for a shorter story, but it blew up in popularity and they had to patch holes in the ship while it was already out at sea(kinda like one piece's author; but given how he has to keep extending the story, he has plenty of time to fix stuff up)
@@lahomiShe wanted to end the series quick and rushed a lot of the story plots and arcs which is why it has so msny plot hole and inconsistencies. She didn't give it time to cook.
@@delfuscreeto7552 Hmmm, I guess, but still, a lot of things makes me think that it was supposed to be longer but the mangaka had to make the story shorter forr some reason (like, the number of moon originally before muzan kill half of them without any good reason, the characterr really rushed, etc etc)
The closest reason comes at the end of the series (manga) sadly but I understand your points. I feel zenitsu's growth is undermined by his somnambulism and generally character growths are also not explored as much in demon-slayer safe for with-tanjiro-hashira moments
As much as I'm Demon Slayer fan, it has many writing problems and flat character building. I really love more how many variations the fandom has taken on the possibilities each character has that THAT is what made me respect or like some of them and love the potential that world had (even if in the canon wasn't as well done)
Jujutsu Kaisen is one of my top 3 manga and I'll be the first to admit it has a lot of problems. I think a true fan can acknowledge the flaws while still enjoying the series.
@@gundamguy833 I have the same thinking! I also like JJK and I acknowledge what you talk about haha. Still, what they made right is what made them a huge success. In my case, even with their flaws (such as flatness in certain aspects or the vertiginous rhythm in decrease of building better empathy with characters) I was still able to enjoy, connect and being avid for more... I never was into fanfiction, AU, OC or such as I'm now around DS, JJK and BnHA and it was because DS open the door haha
@@CherryNah I can relate so much to y'all Even though I hadn't watched that many animes I still had my fair share of badly written ones, whether they were flat, repetitive or overall bad I still somehow managed to enjoy them in my own way, Iets add the fact that fandoms change alot of people's perspective on said anime prime example for me is mha, at first I didn't have any reliable ways to watch anime so I tried to base my opinion of it from the fandom, and since a large portion of it is toxic and pretty cringey, I was sure it was a pretty shity anime but when I got the chance to watch it (AKA binge-watched all 6 seasons) I instantly loved it, even if some characters are poorly written or designed I managed to overlook those and focus on the more positive things, from there I was open to accept a lot more different animes and the community of said animes
@@gundamguy833so real. learning to tolerate the gege-cycle and enjoying the manga in all its jankiness did wonders for my sanity. sometimes you just gotta turn the brain off and raw dog it to enjoy it 💀
there are a few flat characters like tanjiro, zenitsu, nezuko, and so on, but there are some characters who definitely make sense tbh. the characters aren’t as flat as jjk characters, though that isn’t much of an accomplishment 💀
Usopp's character is made pretty clear from the start. No more than week or two into being a real pirate he shoots Arlong in the face to save Gen, with zero support in sight. His fear is not an obstacle when it really counts.
@@milkman2808except it didn’t tho. If you’re referring to Dressrosa, then Usopp only grew more cowardly AFTER Robin was affected by Sugar, which means he forgot she ever existed, which means he forgot all the personal growth he had during Water 7 and Enies Lobby because he’d have forgotten about Sogeking and his entire section of massive growth in that arc. And even without it, he comes back to win the battle and become the MVP of the arc.
I'm so glad you've made this video! I get frustrated when I hear my friend say "Why don't you like Zenitsu? He's just like Usopp". You've highlighted the differences between these three characters so well, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love that you suggest improvements for Zenitsu as well. I also don't want to write him off, I just wish I saw more growth from him sooner, or that I learned more about him in general.
If you like Usopp so far, I highly recommend watching or reading all of One Piece. Usopp is such a good character with really significant moments. The Water Seven Arc and Thriller Bark have especially good moments.
I'd say that my favourite coward and insecure character in anime is early Simon from TTGL. In just a couple of episodes they manage to establish his fears, show his bravery in facing them and foreshadow the kind of man he can become if he gets over them. Him returning after his funk is among my favoutite moments in fiction.
Another amaizing analysis and Starks growth seems only to have begun, theres so many things he does in the name of heroism despite his fears following the exemple of 3 great characters (Aisen,Himmel and Stoltz) that he feels like he cannot let them down, i hope one day Stark in the story can get momentos of those characters to represent them like his brothers cloak but all burned from the battle and heros sword in hand, the possibilities are so good for his character.
I'm writing a story right now, and there are 3 main characters so far. Two of the 3 are cowards, but the reasons for their fear and how they experience and deal with it is different. the primary mc is dealing with the trauma of his father being assassinated in front of him and being unable to stop it. This translates into a not unfounded fear of losing the other people he cares about, and he experiences his fears constantly and it wears down on him. He just forces himself to keep moving as a distraction, and at one of the pivotal moments in the story when his friend is about to die, the state of panic throws him into a desperate fit of action disregarding his own safety to stop it. The other coward in the party is a socially airheaded magical genius. She is by far the most powerful member of the party, but the moment she realizes the primary mc might die, she freezes up and goes into shock and has to be shaken out of it by the weakest member of the party so she can save him. The one member of the party who isn't a coward is the weakest of the three. I enjoy writing these character juxtapositions, and I believe I've managed to do it well enough that none of the characters are annoying with their cowardice. But I think there's more to do to make the characters even more compelling, and this video essay shed some light on one part of that. So thanks!
I just largely thinks he's missed Zenitsu's character a lot. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him. No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward. He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy. The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money. His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
@@w1nther930 True, either this guy didn't really wait for the last 2 arcs to be animated or just that he forgot S1E17 exists. And no, Zenitsu selflessly protecting Tanjiro's box WASN'T the only time he was selfless & brave while awake. During Season 2, He even confronted a demon he knew that is a LITERAL UPPER MOON DEMON, just because he saw the Upper Moon hurting a child. It is common knowledge for Demon Slayers to know that Upper Moons are invincible, untouchable & extremely powerful, yet Zenitsu of all people had guts & was selfless enough to even grab an Upper Moon's arm and told her to back off. These two were also not the only time, to shorten it; In the light novel "For Whose Sake", Zenitsu actually tried to confront an enormous demon because a girl was terrified of it. During Season 4, Zenitsu helped & even took Genya to run away with him so that Sanemi wouldn't hurt him (it was portrayed as a joke, but it was a brave action for Zenitsu). During the final arc, Zenitsu held off & fought Muzan Kibutsuji himself while motivating Tanjiro to fight for his sister's sake, a life whom he resides in an assumingly beautiful world.
@@w1nther930 No I meant the time when he confronted Upper Rank 6 Daki during the Entertainment District arc, NOT about Upper Rank 6 Kaigaku during the Infinity Castle arc. When Daki pulled the ear of a child until it bled, Zenitsu interfered, held her wrist & told her to back off, even after knowing full well that she is an Upper Moon Demon. That was such a brave & selfless action.
I love coward characters like Yajirobe from Dragon Ball Z. He is basically just a guy with some half ass karate training, but when it matters he jumps in to save his friend. He remains a coward after, but in the moment his fear of losing his friends is more potent than his own self preservation.
I did quit cuz of him hearing he gets better at the end. It makes me wonder, "Why wasn't he like that sooner? Why must he be asleep to be useful/tolorareable?"
Personally i felt that zenitsu was not only just a coward but he simply just felt like he was a pathetic person and that he thought he just wasnt strong enough to do anything but at the same time he does truly want to help people and save others even though hes afraid and thinks so little of himself, but when hes asleep he dreams about being the person he truly wants to be, someone whos strong and can protect people because to him its just a dream whiuch is why he usually doesnt remember anything afterwards. Honestly i feel like a lot of people forget thta many of the demon slayers who joined were either just straight up crazy or they had a personal vendette against the demons meanwhile zenitsu was just forced to become one due to his past. And why doesnt he quit? theres a clear reason but many people seem to forget it. zenitsu always had people look down on him such as his past girlfriends who used him and the only person who actually believed he could be someone better was his master who was the one who helped him and paid off his debt and even when he did try to run away it was his master who dragged him back, so why doesnt he quit? becaus he obvioulsy wants to be that person his master believes he is and truly make him proud that is his motivation and its that very motivation that makes him get serious in the next season. I used to hate zenitsu back in the first season as well but he eventually grew on me, I feel like people doent givwe zenitsu enough credit for who he really is behind his cowardly act and thats because they just dont understand him that well
Great response! I couldn’t say it any better myself, I believe Zenitsu really embodies cowardice unlike Stark, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s important to acknowledge the diff. bet. fear and cowardice. At the end of the day, Stark was still brave enough to face that dragon and other strong opponents unlike Zenitsu so far who runs away or goes unconscious when his life is threatened.
@@danielnidhiry5796 they will (spoilers further down) If you remember the letter zenitsu received during the previous season the letter informed zenitsu that his master ended up committing seppuku (ritual su*cide) after one of his other students ended up becoming a demon (the one who trained with zenitsu named kaigaku) and after hearing that news zenitsu decided that it was finally time for him to step up since he now truly has something to fight for and he ends up facing kaigaku in yhe infinity castle
I think another great example is Subaru from re;zero. Now I can't exactly be talking about him too much, I barely watched the anime. But I heard from other people and overall just my analysis, that Subaru is afraid of the threats, but he's always backed out in a corner, he needs to face it and utilize 'Return From Death' properly, otherwise it would end up bad for him. It eventually became a character growth for him to the point he knows he must face it and he faces it as the time passes by.
To really subvert the coward trope in anime, the coolest thing I've yet to see would to have your coward... give up. How layered and nuanced that would be that when someone is truly afraid, they no longer care about their "hero moment". It's innate self-preservation at that point. Basic instinct. To be afraid and not care to be brave in the end. I would love to see a secondary character give up. I will never agree with the sentiment that realism can't be fun. I've always felt that anime was missing something. It feels like it always scratches the surface with character depth. Which is incredibly strange because I read Japanese literature like Murakami and Kawabata- who both go into the surreal depths of the human psyche and primarily focus on the intricacies and complex nature of their characters. To be fair, I know and understand that anime is supposed to be a "light medium" for everyone to enjoy... I get that most people don't want to feel empty, or question their existence after watching. To me anime has always felt like: Character A is like this because pre-established B, C, and D. Sob story, dead mom, bullied. Just plug in a formula and you have an excuse for why your archetype exists. Okay, well humans don't act like that. We change and adjust and can be come unrecognizable for better or for worse. I am interested in seeing the "for worse". In quotes because who could blame anyone for being scared. Edit: Shinji lmao nvm
I wonder how many times people have written whole essays on tropes or particular implementations of tropes they want to see in anime before realizing NGE beat them to the punch
Might just be me but i too am getting kinda tired of the OP hero whos brave has a harem and never makes mistakes beside the one time he let his sensei or friend die for development. Probably why I have fallen for NGE, no one is depicted as a perfect white knight. Edit: Also for the first point I kinda agree, but i also want to see a “will to survive will sometimes be greater than the will to win,” aka the character being afraid to the point where its either they give up and run away OR just tap into the “fight to survive” type of energy since we sometimes get overfilled with the “win at all cost, even my life” trope.
Have you watched Jobless reincarnation? It absolutely tackles some fairly heavy topics… I empathize so much with Rudeus too much for my liking but damn its great.
This video just made me realize that I to enjoy characters that fall under this archetype as long as they're well-written. I've enjoyed more as a concept recently but Sousou no Frieren made me realize that it can be executed beautifully.
Well done on this video, but I did have something to say about zenitsu. I can understand why people don’t like his character, since it’s kinda the point in the beginning, but I wouldn’t argue that it’s realism for why he acts like that. Both zenitsu and inosuke are introduced as annoying and irregular people. We see zenitsu being a a huge coward, and lecherous. However, zenitsu’s is not just playing the coward archetype, but the something more like the crouching moron/hidden badass. We see that behind all that fear and idiocy, there is a competent demon slayer underneath, but he can’t. Because of this hidden skill that he has, it creates more of a mystery as to how he was able to hone this skill and why he’s so afraid when he can be so capable, something that is explained much later in the story (I won’t spoil it if anyone wants to read it). I’m not saying you can’t hate zenitsu, that’s kinda the point (even characters in the show acknowledge his shitty behavior) but overtime, we see him slowly begin to change, towards being both more responsible and less selfish. And with the crescendo of his character arc happening soon with the movie trilogy, I expect people will be changing how they view zenitsu.
Thank you so much for this video!! This kind of analysis makes me so happy and it gives so much more appreciation for excellent writers who come up with characters like Stark!!!
I love how you nailed every character in this video and I'm excited for Infinity castle ark because this is where Zenitsu actually faces his own fears without being asleep SPOILER ALERT During the Hashira training ark Zenitsu got a letter communicating that one os his fellow peers (Kaigaku) who is also a thunder breath user had transformed into a demon and that his Grandfather commited Seppuku due to that. This is an inflexion point for him because while he does blame Kaigaku for his grandfathers's dead, he puts blame on himself for not stepping up against his own fear and showing his grandfather how much he's grown while he was alive. This is where he stops falling asleep and faces reality with his eyes wide open, even fighting against Muzan himself. Although he's still a creep around women -_-
Whilst I agree with a lot of the criticisms on Zenitsu's overall character writing; motivation wise I think there's a bit more to understand. The Thunder Hashira saved Zenitsu from a life of servitude by paying off a life debt Zenitsu has been burdened with (through his own incompetence). In the same way Stark is going on his journey to return to Eisan with stories, Zenitsu stays with the Demon Slayers to honor his master.
Call me crazy but I feel like that's barely ever mentioned or even hinted? I think I remember that happening but that was like one time and after that; not much callback to it or anything, right? I might just be forgetting smth but we know the other dude motivation either because of how they act or them straight up talking about it Zenitsu cries and cries says I don't wanna be here and then gets mad at his friends I mean it's been a while since I've seen the older seasons but thats the core things I remember about him.
@@Rayko_v.1 You know, it's quite easy to figure out why he doesn't quit. No one expects anything from him. He was neglected by his parents of proper guidance and ended having 7 ex girlfriends who all abused him and used him for money, with a debt of around 600.000 yen as a result. That's about 4000 dollars worth of debt. His mentor paid it all off, and whenever he ran away, he got dragged back. His mentor is the first and only person at that time to ever expect something from Zenitsu, and even paid off that HUGE debt, of course Zenitsu won't quit with this.
I mean not exactly his own incompetence? Zenitsu was betrayed by girls he loved and thought loved him back. That aside… yes, he is annoying in my opinion, wish he wasnt even in the story. XD
Zenitsu was funny at first, I remember laughing at his quirks at the start of the manga. But then it stayed a recurring joke with no resolution and I can't even remember if he lived or died by the end of the series. One of the central characters in the story is literally a joke, nothing more than that. Which is sad, I agree with you that a coward is an interesting archetype. As anxiety being one of the lead mental issues and every person is affected by it in at least some degree in their lives, it feels therapeutic to watch a scaredy cat getting a hold of themselves and amount to something. It just hits home.
what is you talking about zenitsu beat upper moon 6 all by himself and fought muzan and you call him a coward (he was one in the start its called character development)
@@kmekosnk840 all his character development happened in the last part of the last arc. I love Demon Slayer but I can still point out that it has a huge flaw with pacing its character development to the point it hurts the story (with the expectation of their actual training/power scaling).
@@kmekosnk840 not arguing that it's not a good backstory or a great climax to it, I'm saying that it there was no real build up and therefore that climax is soured. He's whiny and annoying and any bit of progress he does make (protecting Tanjiro's box) is immediately revert/ignored two seconds later. He's great on paper, but in the actual end product, he falls flat.
another good character that is part of the coward architype is Fluttershy from MLPFIM. throughout the shows run, she takes baby steps to become less afraid. the show did explain it away with baby steps, but her growth is slowly shown
This felt more like a critique on zenitsu than an exploring frieren video 😂 If only anime could get rewrites, then I think so many shows would’ve been so much better.
Zenitsu is kinda deserving though, imagine if zenitsu's character is similar to stark he'd be much more likable but it's somewhat redundant because half of starks character is in tanjiro.
@@P1zzaGuy I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination to give reasons for how he is. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him. No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward. He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy. The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
Very good video analysis, i personally haven't done a complete character study of Zenitsu but from what I've seen his cowardice is heavily influenced by his ambitions of finding a wife. Unable to socialize like a normal person he's forced to only socialize with the demon slayers (Like you want to join another social group but can't fit in, so you deal with a group you do fit into even if you don't like it). Eventually i feel like Zenitsu confidence began to only grow with these social interactions and friendships, his self image begins to become lower with thoughts like "Even if i can fight, its normal for someone to fear Demons, my actions and fear are justified, but here is someone like me but they're doing better. " I kinda feel like Zenitsu's main fear wasn't the Demons, but how others saw him.
@@hanegawamidori4081 Agreed, i haven't read the last arc, but after the last episode, it feel like his anger overtakes his anxiety. Causing him to not care how others see him and he's finally able to focus only on fighting.
8:51 zenitsu is a demon slayer bc he is in crazy debt which is why he cant walk away, he also has huge respect for his master and continues to be a slayer because that's what he wants for him
Thank you for pointing this out, I was thinking the same thing! Also, they do show that zenitsu gets less scared throughout the show but for some reason he decided to fixate on season 1?
Yeah I feel the need to point out that Zenitsu has done several incredibly brave things while he's awake. They just haven't been during battles. He protected Nezuko with his body without even knowing who she was. All he knew was that there was a demon who Tanjirou said was more important to him than his life. And after knowing Tanjirou for all of one day he was willing to put his life on the line to protect a demon he'd never met. There isn't a single other character in the show that would do the same. When he was dying of spider poison he chose to keep himself awake in order to slow the poison as much as possible. He was in horrible pain and had no reason to believe help was coming at all. Realistically he was just extending his own suffering by not letting himself pass out. But he still chose to stay awake. He stands up to Daki for the sake of a little girl he had just met. These moments of bravery outside of battle are what make Zenitsu compelling and endearing. It's also worth noting that sleeping Zenitsu's power comes from his training while he's awake. The show is very clear about the fact that Zenitsu trained very hard to the point of skipping sleep to get the strength he has. It's just that his insecurity and fear stop him from using that strength when he's awake. If he can overcome those mental restrictions then it's entirely possible that we'll find out his sleeping self was always weaker than his awake self.
@@ap7635 a little spoiler but yeah zenitsu does end up outgrowing his sleeping version by a lot, like the difference between fighting an irl sleepwalker and an awake ufc fighter
But the show doesn't feel the need to show that dynamic. If its a money issue, mercenaries that need money and lose a battle still run away. And his character isn't built up around honor like a stoic warrior so okay, his master wants this thing for him, but there's not a rebellious phase where he's questioning? Why not a "I should fight, but my master's training would go to waste if I died here!" We're just told he should stick around because he's a main character.
I have been going through this series of yours watching each episode of Frieren for each essay, and reading each respective chapter in the manga. It’s nice to hear you clarify that you are talking about Stark in the show. The best part about this is that the show is very close being one to one with the manga, save for some animated parts that are likely to fill time for an episode. I am enjoying this series. Excited to see the end for season one and so on! Also I showed the first two episodes of the show to my mom and 3 days later you posted the essay about how you can watch Frieren with your mom lol
in defense of zenitsu... In 1 season of ds we can understand why he can't just walk away from being a demon slayer. He feel guilt to his master, who was absolute sure about that zenitsu will definitely became a good demon slayer. In the show there was the moment where zenitsu himself explain his sleep superpowers: Because he is sleeping, he can imagen himself as a better person then he currently is. In his dream this boy can be confident, and i really like that main idea like: "nothing can be a biggest wall on your path, then wall your mind can create". And by the way i mostly agree with 90% of what being sad in video. oh and sorry. I'm Russian and my English is not so good. thanks for your attention)
@@o0ugi860 p sure it's because he's essentially dreaming about what he'd do in battle. because he cannot trust himself and his capabilities, it's when his consciousness is all lucid that the him he wants to be and the him he is bleed into one, hence the sleep movement. it supposed to show that zenitsu is actually capable, but because of his crippling low self esteem, he can't bring himself to believe it enough to apply it unless he's passed out, at which point muscle memory and his hearing take over. tl;dr: it was all a dream °•°°
While I mostly agree with your points, I honestly feel you its a bit unfair to Zenitsu. If you take a step back and look at the Demon Slayer anime as a whole, you see two notable points: 1) Zenitsu, Does have a reason that he is unconsious during his fights. 2) You didnt even acknowledge one of the moments that he DID stand up to his fears while he was awake. 1) Zenitsu says in S1 E17 that he 'wants to do better and he wants to be strong and capable but he just ends up running away' and later says that he DREAMS that he is strong and that he can save a lot of people. This points to the fact that Zenitsu doent believe that he is capable of such feats. He fully belives that the ONLY way he could save people is if he was dreaming. So he does. 2) Zenitsu stands up to an Upper Six demon in the entertainment district. He does this in S3 E3 to save a little girl from being mercilessly beaten by the Oiran (the demon) and continues to standup in defense even after deducing that she is a powerful demon. It should also be said that he hasnt had much time on screen since the first season where he wasnt made unconscious Before the demon was there (The train he was put to sleep with demon art, and Entertainment he was quite literally knock out) so to say he hasnt grown much is saying it from an unfair perspective. We cant say he hasnt grown because we havent gotten a chance to see if he CAN fight awake. Zenitsu and Inoske also still have major hidden areas of their backstory that need to be explained. While most other character has their story explained. I am pretty sure this is intentional by the author to give them a moment in the next few movies to grow to the challenge of the infinity castle.
"This is where we're going to start getting to spoilers" alright I shall see myself out and return once I finish haha. Noting its a 5:55 for me when I come back. Cool video! Can't wait to finish it ^_^
ima pause here and address something that i love that you do. "if you find yourself back here consider subscribing." thank you for your realistic ask. when i watched one of your videos for the first time i appreciated that approach, but i didnt think i was gonna find myself back at your channel anytime soon. the second video popped up and i clicked. this line came up and i realized what had happened so i thought, "okay, thats fair. i can give a sub." then it happened again, and again, and again. you put out such consistent quality, and that line is perfect because it implies you arent looking for that one viral video. thanks pey
probably a bazillion people have said this, but if you enjoy usopp but don't want to commit to 1k episodes of one piece, watch the water 7 + ennies lobby arcs. his character development picks up there and it's really hard not to love him and admire him - the coward who so desperately wants to be brave and is afraid his superpowered friends will leave him behind
Very interesting analysis, however I think you have overlooked a lot of important factors : 1) Fear and lack of self confidence are not the only issues crippling Zenitsu. He also suffers from overthinking and intense anxiety. When you have anxiety, all your bad thoughts are magnified 10x and your panic mode is easily triggered. Usually, It interferes with your ability to normally function and make you forget basic skills (Like fear of public speaking can cause you to forget the speech you've been practicing by heart for days or how a big crush can cause you to stumble on your words and act stupid and out of character). But in the most severe cases people can actually pass out, the stress and panic is so overwhelming that their brain decide to shut down. 2) The background and upbringing of these 3 characters also count in how they deal with their issues. Stark was born in a Spartan like community so he already had a warrior mindset bred into him, he just needed the skills and confidence to act on it accordingly. When he's faced with danger and his brain goes to fight or flight mode, his education now pushes him to lean towards "fight" where characters like Zenitsu and Usopp half the time, are pushed towards "flight". Usopp grew up knowing he was the son of a great pirate who took the sea and spent his entire childhood dreaming to walk into his shoes. In fact every time he acts like a coward, his dream of becoming a great adventurer among his crew mates is what pushes him to turn around and face the danger. This is what the whole persona of Sogeking was built on. Other than that, Usopp may have some insecurities but he is very confident in his skills as a craftsman and a marksman. Zenitsu on the contrary, is for lack of better words, a nobody, just a normal guy. He doesn’t have any special upbringing and no real purpose to help him push through the fear and anxiety. Which bring us to the last point. 3) If you remember, Zenitsu already tried several times over to escape the Demon Slayer selection training. But every time it was his master/grandpa who brought him back. His sole reason to keep going on this path is exactly to not disappoint his teacher who was the only one who believed in him and refused to give up on him. Which might connect to why Zenitsu is so locked in at the end of the last season. Speaking as an anime only watcher, I guess something bad may have happened to the grandpa. So now all of Zenitsu mental energy, thoughts and emotions are now directed away from his fear and anxiety and towards only one specific purpose, which I guess would be revenge.
You’re right about the part where he has anxiety and was forced into being a demon slayer. But, this does not change the fact that he shows a lack of development and is not a “nobody”. He is a demon slayer who has special powers and a lot of strength, similar to stark. Even with the anxiety and fear Zenitsu has, he should still show growth by facing his fears. He fights countless demons and yet never shows any change in himself. He is an overall poorly written character because of his lack of any development. Using the excuse of “anxiety” and “no real purpose” is simply idiotic. His purpose in life is to marry Nezuko and to achieve it he has to defeat the demons. The author of demon slayer tends to use his “unconsciousness” to avoid his fears and any personal growth. This makes it feel bullshit and as if the author simply did not want to put in the effort to make him into a good character.
@@IcesGaming 1) " is not a “nobody”. He is a demon slayer who has special powers and a lot of strength, similar to stark" : the anime is literally named demon slayer so the fact Zenitsu is one doesn't mean anything. Plus in what way does he have the same strength and stamina as Stark ? The two characters evolve in two different universes, we have not been shown Zenitsu solo a dragon like we haven't seen Stark fighting an overpowered self healing demon at light speed. 2) "Even with the anxiety and fear Zenitsu has, he should still show growth by facing his fears. He fights countless demons and yet never shows any change in himself." : Except he never did fight them, he was unconscious remember ? Everytime he wakes up after the battle, he has no recollection of what transpired. The Infinite Castle Arc is probably going to be the first time he's actually fighting demons consciously. 3) "He is an overall poorly written character because of his lack of any development." Because Stark's character has ? Character development means he/she evolves over the course of the story. Stark facing his fears was the introduction of his character into the group and the main story. After that the only thing that developed with Stark is his relationship with Fern. The anime is still at his start, so there haven't been much going on with him except one or two foreshadows like with the sword of heroes. 4) " His purpose in life is to marry Nezuko and to achieve it he has to defeat the demons. " : No, you just made that up lol. Zenitsu's personality is basically that he loves girls, even after meeting Nezuko he kept hitting on other girls throughout the arcs. He has a special interest in Nezuko only because she's part of the group, nothing more. 5) " The author of demon slayer tends to use his “unconsciousness” to avoid his fears and any personal growth." : That's actually the only original thing about Zenitsu, and I've been watching shonen animes for 20 years now. Zenitsu forgetting about his fear and anxiety and fighting fully conscious, IS his character development that we are about to see in the last arc.
@@0927kira Never said it wasn't, everyone is free to have an opinion on a character. But if you want to build a whole argument as to why it's bad writing, it must be a fair one, and not just picking on stuffs that support your argument and ignoring the points that don't.
@@hikari9433 I mean, having a character switch off their coward personality without any reason just for the convenience of being able to defeat the bad guy is pretty lazy writing. It doesn't even come with any consequence or down side. He can talk, articulate, and even strategize while "asleep". Imagine if in the start, Nezuke can just unexplainably turn off her demon mode, just so they dont have to navigate the staying away from the sun bit or meeting people with a demon sister. That's what it feels like whenever I watch Zenitsu.
i feel like a big thing that makes zenitsu not grow is because he has zero faith in himself and is just overall depressed in the hashira training we see what could have been if he had even a little faith in himself it shows he can come along way in a short amount of time
another reason why zenitsu sucks and isnt even realistic like people try to argue to defend him, is he just as whiny and cowardly when he is in a fully safe environement, he isnt deathly afraid bc he is facing terrifiying foes, hes just consistently the most whiny baby ever no matter how tiny the cause is
In one episode of demon slayer Zenitsu was crying and screaming for about 6 minutes straight. That was the moment I turned off the show and never picked it up again.
Not just zenitsu, all the other characters abusing thier personality traits is extremely annoying, everyone of them has a wierd personality and the only moments they r cool happen during a fight, it's so annoying, demon slayer is absolutely carried by animation
It is sadly the curse of shounen shows you are not allowed to write "Proper" good characters only stereotypes allowed and never deeper than two shouts.
As far as I’m aware, zenitsu does get his glow up… eventually. Ussop is still a coward that always runs away but he no longer does it out of fear, he does it because his opponents are gods in close combat so of course he’s going to run. In response to those that complain about realism in fantasy: “News flash! The genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee!”
He does, yes, in the next season. This dude uploaded this video thinking it was definite, while the end of the last season literally reveals Zenitsu doing exactly what this guy mentioned at 7:41 ..... That is literally the cliffhanger. Zenitsu finally locked in. The last season also made it OBVIOUS that Zenitsu was MEANT to still be mid until now because they showed how insecure he is compared to the others, due to his lacking drive and ability as a slayer. The boulder training made this so obvious that missing it must mean one has something wrong their level of perception. He is far weaker than Tanjiro and Inosuke unless he gets serious, which he now finally did. I am not defending him by any means. If anything, I'm just attacking the flaws in this TH-camr's manipulation of the truth. He brings up things that have already been given to us by the narrative, while he pretends the narrative did not give it. Classic case of people hating on the "pervy character" Look at Sanji, Mineta, Jiraiya. (Yes even Jiraiya before his final battle) People always over-invalidate characters like them and ignore certain story beats about them. "Watch the Zenitsu fans defend him blablabla" No, this is just a neutral guy here, attacking a Zenitsu hater who is being biased and purposely ignores things. I am NOT saying the story is amazing, and that Zenitsu character is/will be amazing. I am just saying the TH-camr is wrong and spreading misinformation/manipulation.
@@michaeltb2746 the whole point was growth and the fact that zenitsu's gimmick overstayed its welcome. Also he explains at the start of the video how he is going to exclusively talk about the anime. No need to be ashamed from defending zenitsu he is decently likeable as a character he just lacks any sort of growth. Being a shounen doesn't excuse DS because Usopp exists.
Sometimes i wonder, about his gramp commit seppuku because of the other student. Had it came to be known as early as the first season of DS, season 1 zenitsu would've still react the same way he does in the latest season. Just to show that zenitsu dont have solid character development throughout the story. He lock in in the end? i mean sure why not. First season zenitsu would react the same. He finally hate demon, like the rest of the cast. He got gimmick(sleep while fighting) with no explanation, lost the gimmick at the end(because someone he love died), and no other character development.
Demon Slayer Mango Spoiler-ish: My real issue with Zenitsu is that he didn't grow. I absolutely believe he had no character arc. He had a character switch. He got mad and became serious off screen. The final arc was coming and the manga ran out of time to grow him. I genuinely thought it was a setup for a joke when Zenitsu looked all serious when he got the letter, expecting it to be something ridiculous he became serious about. But sadly i just didn't like him at any point in the series. Stark is great though. Stark is the best.
I'm no writer but thank you for pointing this out. Cause I genuinely hate how in the Hashira training arc. They had the perfect opportunity to actually develop Zenitsu but they didn't. It just happened off screen. And then when we see him in the infinity castle arc suddenly he's able to actually fight. Without falling asleep or anything and winning against an upper moon. Like if we were shown his whole arc of overcoming the fear he had and becoming stronger. And then when he enters the infinity castle arc and defeats an upper moon. It would have been more fulfilling to see. Since we saw him work hard to reach that point.
Him making up an asspull technique just to win the fight against Kaigaku made me vomit That fight was the definition of payoff with absolutely little to no built up
@@teriyakiburrito3036 i mean, his "character development" was sudden. Because the death of his grampa was sudden. Not that he had month to think about the trauma of the loss, he got tped into the castle not that long after it
You're saying as if the main character of Demon Slayer Tanjiro grew as well 😂. He's still the same dude from chapter 1 all the way to the very end. The difference is just that he's married and more skilled.
@@FlowerFruitTea I do wish we would've saw this tbh. But tbf on him killing an uppermoon, the uppermoon your talking about BARELY became one. So i think it makes sense that he was able to defeat him. And even then, he was close to death.
Ussop is a unique case, cause he fears those he believes stronger then him, if he were to return to say arlong park with his modern skills odds are he would wipe the floor with everyone but maybe arlong himself. Ussop only seems to be the same in the modern arcs due to the level of threat increasing with hin, he is constantly stuck in the position of being among the weakest members of the crew despite his increase in ability and strength. (I think this was something i had an issue with for a long time, how ussop had those moments where he was capable of soloing the fake strawhats, but then seemed to become a coward in future arcs, he didn't fear the fakes cause they were just that weak, in future arcs he was facing real threats so his attitude returned to what it usually is)
I understand your frustrations with Zenitsu and many people hate him because of his lack of growth throughout the series. For me personally, I do like Zenitsu's character since he represents a character who has a late-blooming character growth unlike what we all expect character growth to look like. Yes, him whining all the time can be seen as annoying but in some weird way, I find that related because, if we all start being honest, not many of us would be able to grow as consistently as many MCs if we were in Zenitsu's position and hence why I feel he is a realistic coward and instead of the anime cowards we all know and love. I do feel that not knowing the reason of his change at the end of the Hashira training arc makes it seem like a plothole but the final season will allow you underdstand his reason for his fear and what caused him to overcome it at the end. Don't get me wrong, I think Stark is a much better character than Zenitsu but I feel like the only reason why people hate on Zenitsu is the fact that he shows how any of us would've been if we were to be in his shoes and that's why I like him as a character.
Hey thank you so much for the shout out! It means a lot to me that my message resonated with you. When I first wrote the script for that video, I had a whole section talking about how Usopp does what Zenitsu doesn't, but ultimately decided to cut it, so it's super funny to hear you say the same things I wanted to. It's cool to find a like-minded creator. Great video, keep up the good work
When I was doing research for this video I found your video and it was great! Keep up the good work as well. You have some fans in this comment section excited to see you referenced
The character development for Zenitsu just took too long that I lost interest in him and get annoyed whenever he's on screen. I think that's why I stopped watching Demon Slayer like others did. Stark became my favorite character in Frieren right after episode 6 because what he learnt and he keeps evolving throughout the anime. Finally an anime where fear gets acknowledged as a good thing because courage doesn't exist without fear! Thank for the very good video!
the point of zenitsu's character is to show how he found a solution to being afraid and the trade offs are; He is usually late to join the fights despite his power, The lack of respect for him as a person showing why he can't grow as a character, His reliance on him being unconscious as a crutch showing why he doesn't grow as a character coz him being unconscious is a reliable way(in the meantime)for him to fight and leading him think he shouldn't change if his method works, People praising is power making him actually feel wanted and making him not want to change. All this is going on in the head of a coward who is despised by nearly everyone around him for how he acts, who failed to learn all but one form of his breathing style, who can only use that one breathing style when he is literally knocked out, then waking up to injuries he has no recollection of. I like his character and his rare moments of heroism despite how he acts and that the consequences are internal. His annoying character tropes are clever way to contrast his immense power and how he could be way more if he changed. His character is also realistic in the way he doesn't change because many people don't change just because they are wrong. The beauty of zenitsu's character is that he is in this cycle of "im weak" to "im actually strong" to "i dont remember being strong but people say i am" to "people dont like me except when i am strong" to "since im strong when asleep, i can make myself strong" to "i dont need to change since im already strong." Seeing him in this cycle makes him very interesting to watch.
I also just think this guy completely forgets Zenitsu's past. He's a guy who's been abused by 7 ex girlfriends, had a debt of 600.000 yen (4000 dollars) because of them, and his mentor paid it all off. His parents neglected him. No one wanted to associate with him. Only his mentor paid off his debt and expected Zenitsu to become someone great. Yeah, he runs away constantly, but his mentor dragged his ass back every time. He didn't give up on Zenitsu. Hell, large amount of the fanbase proves his quote. "If you run away once, people will think: Ah, this guy is no good".
I think you raised an interesting point at the beginning of this video about the pursuit of realism in fiction. I mostly approach character writing and worldbuilding from the perspective of TTRPGs. I write my own campaigns and run a consistent game for some friends. For a little while, I was trying to make the world feel as real as possible, but after seeing a video essay similar to this one, I realized that what I was looking for wasn't a world that was "Realistic" but for a world that made sense. I think it is generally more important for the world/characters to make sense for how their written rather than be as realistic as possible, particularly in fantasy. If there is an entire fictional universe/world that characters have supposedly grown up in, they need to have a fundamental understanding of how their world works (see Avatar, Frieren, etc.) I think that's where a lot of discussion over cowardly characters being "realistic" goes wrong. For the above reasons, Zenitsu and Usopp annoy me in their respective shows whereas Stark does not. For all of the reasons you mentioned, Zenitsu being a Demon Slayer makes no sense, unless it is a complete obsession with Tanjiro and Nezuko, he has no other reason to remain a demon slayer. And while people are free to disagree with me on the subject of Usopp, he continues to be cowardly throughout the One Piece story (at least to the point I've watched/read). I'm not trying to take away from his character development or achievements throughout the story, but he still displays the same cowardly tendencies no matter what enemy he is facing, and that grates against me. I appreciate you putting so much thought into your videos, and I really love Frieren as a whole, can't wait to see what more you have to say.
The word I generally see used for what you mean here is "grounded", as in grounded in reason/sense and being fundamentally sound. As for Usopp, though it's been a while since I've read early One Piece, I feel that his early presence is more about his unique voice in the crew of idiots, so he doesn't have as much of a narrative need to develop out of his cowardice-as annoying as it may feel if you're all aboard with the headstrong idiots (affectionate). As the Strawhat Crew becomes more and more of an undeniable threat on the world stage, Usopp's outright cowardice also reduces.
Stark for me has the qualities of both Eisen AND Himmel. He is a scaredy cat warrior who will do what he must when it counts. His heart is pure and soft, with no intention of gathering fame, he always attract others to him. He is the kindest warrior with the softest soul.
7:28 wait. didn't they already explain this in the anime? or at least partially explained it. didn't it had to do with his really good hearing and him still being able to hear while sleeping? being able to hear things while passing out might have allowed him to basically be fully aware while sleeping (like lucid dreaming) and thanks to that, he's able to block the subconscious fears he has while he's awake
"Being afraid is not a bad thing.
It's my fear that brought me this far"
- Eisen the Warrior
its odd how we remember the scene, shows how impacting frieren is in general
It goes even deeper in the recent manga arcs. When called the strongest humanity's melee fighter of his time Eisen replies that he's just a coward and that he's only the strongest fighter *alive* - there were many who were stronger than him but they didn't know when to give up and retreat.
Ayeee my fellow fate lover
Fate??
@@gilgameshlfx7006 read that as ethan winters how cooked am i
oh my god
the idea of having zenitsu closing his eyes to block out the fear and relying on his hearing makes too much sense
that should've absolutely been what the writer went with instead of needing him to be passed out
Or zenitsu going blind
And the author didn't even go through with it because somehow Zenitsu can still talk while being unconcious, what's the difference between him being awake and asleep then??
@@billlee3851 its kinda like sleep walking/ talking in your sleep
True true, would have been very cool, but I think its kinda to represent what happens when you blackout and see major events or even seeing red and not remembering what happened afterward, but to be fair, it is all opinion
@@landofthehazymist but that'd be forcing him, his fear shouldn't be erased but something that is still there however he still chooses to act
Even without better character writing, Zenitsu would be significantly more bearable if he didn't spend so much time screaming in our faces
That's part of why I dropped Demon Slayer. It was just annoying to sit through the screaming to get to the "good" bits. And the "good" bits weren't great either.
The whole magic system is flawed, you just breathe in a different way to gain different abilities???
At first it was cool, you breathe properly to gain strength and endurance, but that devolved into breathing differently to gain different magic powers.
@@QwertySpaceOfficiali wouldn’t say that the slayer’s styles are inherently “magical” as it’s just a visual cue for us viewers, really. the creator has specified that the level of visuals that are seen to us, the audience, are breathing styles that are dependent on the dexterity of each individual as opposed to whichever one looks the prettiest or coolest, haha. at the end of the day, the slayers are fighting with their own meticulously controlled skills that in which reflect their style, but aren’t an entity that they harness. the hashira for example don’t gain their title for the fun swirly effects surrounding their weapon of choice, but because they have honed their swordsmanship to a T and have personally accepted their role as a protector, beacon, and “pillar” of the corps. i derailed a bit from my original point because i am who i am (oops), but what i’m really trying to say is that the more fun stuff the “camera” sees, the stronger the slayer because of their hard work, not because they were blessed by some outer source and just so happen to possess a unique power that isn’t just a result of RNG. aka the “magic” isn’t what makes them strong. rather, it’s their dedication that makes them look more magical ! they don’t really control the elements like that, but it would be an interesting interpretation ? i rambled a lot so apologies if none of this made sense
I like to have those slice of life moments where you can breath between high stakes situations, but it doesn't work if you're seeing clowns in a circus
@@lucky6961 you do have a point, but if you’re talking about zenitsu specifically then at the end of the day, you have to remember that he’s still a child that has gone through a lot of life-altering experiences at such a young age that together have effected the way he perceives things. when i first started getting into kny i didn’t really like him too i’ll be honest, especially as a woman. i’d say that my love for the series and sympathy for the characters made me realize that perfection isn’t always easy and that helped me look forward to seeing more content rather than criticizing every little detail that irks me. this is a fantasy world that has fantasy people in it ! it’s not going to be completely realistic and, because it was a one-person team producing the manga, i’m frankly okay with plot holes. if anything, it’s fun to fill in the gaps with my imagination. gotouge (the author and artist) legitimately had to rush the ending due to - iirc - ailing health and although i wish we could’ve seen what their intended direction was, i’m still very content with what we have. i love this series a lot since demon slayer’s one of the first animes that made me truly feel for the characters in it. i’m in no way demeaning your comment ! just expressing my feelings on it :)
And thirsting after this girl who is reduced to a childlike state ..
I think another interesting thing about Stark is that other characters in the story ADORE him. Every town they stop in, he's just speed running side-quests and winning over the hearts of all the locals without even trying. He's got these ginormous shoes to fill, taking Eizen's place in Frieren's party, but in many ways I think hes taken on Himmel's as well, at least when it comes to being the party face. I think its another, really neat way to explore a character with very little self-confidence, who just happens to charm everyone he meets, not by being conniving or deceitful, but just by genuinely being a sweetheart.
Here is a 🍪 for you kind sir.
Indeed
@@nathanfernandes7085 I'm a lady, but thank you for the cookie regardless 🙏🍪
Not only that but I agree that he represents Himmel in a humane way too. He helps bring warmth to Fern’s colder personality like how Himmel did for Frieren. And although he may be a bit more sturdier than most humans he KNOWS he can die like a regular person. He isn’t a supersoldier like Eizen nor practically God Tier power spikes like Frieren and Fern. He’s literally a human like Himmel who just happens to handle a axe better than most both is his hand and in his side.
Great point!
i really love your idea of zenitsu progressing to a point where he just closes his eyes to avoid facing his, but remains awake. it retains his character while still allowing for growth, and it would do a lot to make him less annoying
I’d also be kinda bad ass in a way like “leme close my eyes to fight you and get stronger cause im less afraid and can focus better “
@@DrPsychotic not to spoil the rest of the anime, but it’s not that far off from how his arc goes.
@@goldshot754 Thad be cool, I’m waiting for it to be in English to watch ☺️
@@DrPsychotic this makes no sense. english? to watch? sub titles are there for a reason. only by watching it in japanese/original language you will get the most out of a show
The sad part is for all the amazing visuals the team working on demon slayer is, the writing is very very incompetant and it doesnt make you care other than watching the cool fights
The "drawback" point is SO IMPORTANT, I remember thinking when seeing Zenitsu being a badass while unconscious "If literally everything about you is better when you're not conscious with no drawbacks, why would I ever want you conscious again?"
Zenitsu is far more capable while awake. Unfortunately they’re comparing a character far onto their arc with a character whose arc is halfway done.
Zenitsu is presented as a problem and no one gives him the most basic sympathy for it, he’s treated like garbage, to be tossed out and left aside.
@@nanovega3918 Very good point. "Unfortunately they’re comparing a character far onto their arc with a character whose arc is halfway done"
And i think people missed out his memory regarding his master and the training during the spider fight.
@@ekcmanhe’s comparing season 1 stark with season 4 zenitsu lol what are you on. Zenitsu does become more competent at the end but it’s not explained at all
@@himlolo it didn't explained why because Zenitsu doesn't have that much of screentime than Stark (in comparison to their MC), even after 4 season.
@@ekcman because demon slayer just has bad writing. It would not take long to use the closed eyes explanation. Instead he just becomes asleep, again, him being unconscious > conscious. Does not feel earned at all. His courage isn’t his. This doesn’t change later on either because we never even get a couple lines explaining how he got over his fear
Bravery can not exist without fear. 'Bravery' without fear is recklessness.
A quote I heard ages ago, but I think sums up Stark and Ussop, and then Zenitsu. "There is a fine line between stupidly brave, and bravely stupid." In order to face their fears, S&U needed to be stupidly brave at the time of their decision. It's been like 9 years since I read One Piece so I don't remember a lot of Ussop's moments, but a really good example for Stark is when he fights the demons. The amount of bravery he showed to *take an attack that was his master's style* while FEARING that style, is absolutely mind boggling. Then there's Zenitsu, who you wonder how they aren't afraid of breathing.
Courage can't exist with our fear
This sentiment is something Eisen likely taught Stark as well. Eisen himself is portrayed shaking from fear before battles, but he says that fear got him this far to begin with.
@@Greaterthanmehuh do you mean without our fear?
since courage is essentially needs fear to exist
@@CerulianHimmel Zenitsu is goated,what are you on about,he carried the show for me
And that's why I've lost my mind when my friend said that meh "Stark is just copy of Zenitsu and Frieren as anime is one of those appealing to male fantasies" HOW CULTURALLY ILLITERATE CAN YOU BE?!
frieren as an anime only appealing to male fantasies?? i don't get why he would say that lol, that's a pretty odd and horrible take. (not being sarcastic btw, just cant word this better)
Are you sure you want to remain friends? 🤔
you mean like how Stark is effectively more useless awake instead of asleep, damn I must've been asleep while watching Frieren
I do agree its appealing to male fantasies. It's just not inappropriate in nature and I recent that male fantasies is used in this way
Is it a coincidence that it's far leftists girl with colored hairs?
2:11 I think the issue with Zen is very simple. He never really grows, or faces consequences for cowardice. Him being a coward is fine, but there is a lot of emphasis placed on it, with no real payoff either positively or negatively, leaving him just plain annoying
Have you read the manga?(Genuine question)
@@Mr_Shan5 Even then he kinda grows a bit too late in my opinion, not that I was bothered too much by him anyway.
@@Draconaii Well yeah I guess the final battle is kinda late
@@Mr_Shan5 no, purely speaking of my experience of Zen from the show up till the end of the Sword village arc
@@MegaMrASDwell alright then
Usopp is a coward, but he's really funny and he's brave. He might be weaker than the rest of the crew but makes up for it with sheer ingenuity. I'd argue he more than earns his place among legends.
Early Zenitsu had me wishing he stayed asleep all the time. I tolerate him because he could be much more and we get a glimpse of that at the end.
I love Stark's character. Everything about the character speaks to me at a fundamental level.
Usopp and Stark are cowards but brave, Zenitsu is just a coward
Usopp was kinda shafted after the time skip. I wish he wasn't changed for comedic value.
@@JJ-xe6wd He does put in work in Dressrosa and Wano tho
Go. D. Usopp change post time skip, he brave enough to face Ulti and not take his word back
Haven’t watched that much of One Piece but his bravery in standing off against Luffy when The Merry was scheduled to be decommissioned is very commendable
I would also point out that Frieren also doesn't treat overcoming fear as an on/off switch. Stark still showing fear, as well as flashback with Eizen shaking, points out they will always be cowards, but they do not succumb or indulge in fear. Further reinforces that form of Heroism where triumph and action despite fear is bravery, rather than bravery through absence of fear.
Are they really cowards if they don't succumb to it?
@@Orca_mammal succumb/indulging is like drowning in water, whereas stark shows bravery by swimming. Both are wet, but one swims.
@@magic_cfw who isn't wet?
@@Orca_mammal Fern since she's good Christian girl raised by a priest.... probably
@@magic_cfw she's also wet. (I don't like how that sounds). Everyone feels fear, some conquer it and act despite it. And those who, can't be called cowards reliably. So I wouldn't say stark is a coward.
The issue with Zenitsu, in my opinion, reflects a broader problem with the Demon Slayer anime: it struggles with character development. The characters tend to be static because the anime relies heavily on their surface personalities to define and distinguish them from one another. Take the Hashira, for example. Each one is almost like a brand, with distinct colors, weapons, and identifying attitudes. Even the ones we get to know better have their own catchphrases. When they do change, it’s not because of personal growth or lessons learned, but rather because they encounter the main character, who singlehandedly drives the plot. Tanjirou’s role is to be a purely innocent, unchanging protagonist, and he never really evolves. He gets stronger, but it feels effortless because he’s perfectly suited for it. He is the plot. Zenitsu’s purpose is to be the cowardly character until the plot suddenly requires him to change, which is exactly what’s happening in this upcoming season-he changes suddenly, with no real effort or development.
Remember that early scene where Zenitsu bravely guards the box? That moment wasn’t really about Zenitsu; it was about Tanjirou. It marked the moment Tanjirou saw Zenitsu as a friend, coinciding with the introduction of the last character to complete their trio. The scene was never revisited because it served Tanjirou's development, not Zenitsu's.
Demon Slayer is visually stunning, but it’s a bit basic. It’s great for people just getting into anime or for younger audiences-essentially, a “baby’s first anime.”
This isn’t to say that Demon Slayer is bad. It’s just the way the creators decided to tell the story, and I think the anime’s other qualities-its artwork, premise, and high-energy moments-make it worth watching. However, it’s much less focused on character development than an anime like Frieren, where the plot is driven by the characters and their struggles. In Frieren, the characters must change and grow for the story to progress. In Demon Slayer, the plot moves forward regardless, and the characters change and grow only as it’s convenient for the plot and the enjoyment of the audience.
DS is, as the kids say, Mid. Its not the worst, but its quickly going to be forgotten.
@Pangora2 I think it's too visually stunning to be forgotten. I think the animation and the high emotional moments are so iconic that it's going to stick around for a long time. Kind of like Dragon Ball Z.
The animation is great but I kept getting tripped up by how bad the dialogue and character development was. you just kind of have to accept it for what it is and enjoy it when it's enjoyable and forgive it when it's not.
I really like the premise of 'Japanese Dracula'. The main villain is one of the most interesting I've seen in a long time.
Basic is a good way to put it. And I don’t even mean that negatively-a lot of people like their media to mostly be cool fighting scenes and visuals, and a story that isn’t too deep. I have friends who believe DS is the best anime ever and genius writing, and I think they have a sort of second-order ignorance about their media literacy skills.
@@thegodplace7887 When ufotable came on the scene in a big way with Fate Zero people were stunned, but the reliance on special effects didn't hold up as well. It will get remembered for a few scenes of sword cutting art, but characters and cultural impact probably not
I think tanjiros character development is pretty good. He used to have a lot of issues when the story first started but over time he was able to deal with them. I’m not gonna go into detail but I think the main characters writing was completely fine so I don’t see where the criticism is coming from ??
"Can a man be brave if he is afraid?" Bran asked Ned Stark.
Ned replied "That's the only time a man can be brave"
when got had good writing
@@TJ_Pars ikr
Ned from spiderman?
Ts hits deep
@@Abdullah_human Nah bro, ned from game of thrones
Another key part of Stark's fear is how it echoes Eisen's. Literally both having fear tremors before battle. Which goes to show that fear isn't something you get rid of. Overcome your fear and then you never get scared again. You are literally fighting against your instinct for preservation.
There is also a contrast between Zenitsu and Inosuke with regard to motivation. So many of the demon slayers, including most of the Hashira, are there for revenge, they are demon slayers to cope with the reality of what demons have personally done to them. Tanjiro too. Not Zenitsu and Inosuke. But Inosuke has reason to stay because he wants to fight, he has no fear. But Zenitsu is terrified of everything, of demons, of medicine, of training, of the Hashira. He is only there because 'Gramps' paid off his debt.
Which would be enough if their relationship was more fleshed out and he REALLY respected his grampa.
Off the top of my head have his grandpa believe he can learn all the lightning forms and he will get there some day, then have him die of old age.
Zenitsu could have been motivated by the guild he feels for letting his grampa down, and never becoming the person he thought he could be.
But then you'd have to show him actually having agency and try...
@@greatclubsandwich5612 Well, about that...
You've included Zenitsu's motivation in your own comment. Yes, he's only there because of Gramps. That should tell you how much living up to his expectations matters to Zenitsu. S01E17 tells you exactly why he loves Gramps so much.
@@magicfibre I feel like people forget that Zenitsu is largely also a depressed dude. His hearing is so great he can even hear their thoughts of him (weird, but it counts). He says no one expects anything from him, that he'll ever be something. He wimps out once and people will think he's no good (Which is proven by the amount of people who hate him), but he stayed around and trained because gramps believed in him, even if he ran away countless times. People forget Zenitsu genuinely hates himself for being a coward and wishes he wasn't.
Weird coincidence that there are two characters that are spelt/pronounced similarly to two characters from bleach
One interesting thing about Usopp: When Luffy meets a character he belives to be a coward he calls them out on it, he called Coby a coward in the beginning and he called Princess Shirahoshi a coward on Fishman Island. And the thing is Luffy is an incredibly good judge of character. Luffy has never called Usopp a coward, not even once.
guess even he misses sometimes
@@stevendemayo3631 well you've never watched or read One Piece then, if there's something that Luffy has never been beaten with, its his judge of character
Huh, never noticed that. I remembered him calling some people a coward, but I now realizing that he didn't do the same with usopp
Huh, never noticed that. I remembered him calling some people a coward, but I now realizing that he didn't do the same with usopp
@@stevendemayo3631 no, i think its because the definition of cowards to luffy is a bit different. Usopp is weak and easily live in fear but he has never runaway to defend something precious to him, heck he even fought Luffy, his captain to defend merry despite knowing Luffy is superior to him in every way.
I would also cite Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit for this trope. Bilbo starts off the story as someone who believes he has no place or desire for adventure, but after being cajoled into a real epic quest and facing numerous challenges in succession he grows in confidence to the point he's calmly conversing with a fire-breathing dragon by the end. Had he remained the reluctant character he was at the beginning throughout the story constantly cowering in front of each and every danger... well, it certainly would've been "realistic" it also would've been a pretty obnoxious arc for his character and duller story over all.
Great example.
Tbh it wouldn't have been "realistic". Not even remotely so.
People get used to things insanely fast. Especially when it comes to survival situations. Sure it's not always without consequences but desensitisation is a thing.
It makes no sense to be scared of something that you not only, have encountered but also killed dozens of times (looking at Zenitsu in this case). Unless you have a specific phobia born of trauma or something.
@@twelfthknight you are not wrong, but at least he changes. Not everything can be amazing in every aspect, but as long as the story or character makes progress it becomes better
@@danijellino1921 In BIlbo's case, he had a great many battle hardened dwarves and a wise wizard to help him get over his traumas. He wasn't *alone* and having to adjust. He didn't become a jaded hateful hobbit, far from home with no support. He was able to remain him throughout even as his confidence grew. That's why the story is good.
@@perrymeril You pointed out why right there, Bilbo had support. Zenitsu had nothing, in fact less than nothing cause his ex girlfiends took his money and ran. His only support was his old master who didn't lose hope despite him being a coward.
One iteration of the coward trope that really sticks out to me is king in one punch. He is the complete opposite of saitama, but supports his character really well. I thought that I would hate King as I'm not the biggest fan of the coward archetype, but King really grew on me.
King is also interesting because he does face his fear despite knowing he doesn't have any ability to rely on.
king puts on that poker face which is kinda in a way not running away.
give king a robot and a gaming set up and he is very much deserving of the number 1 rank. a solution im annoyed they'll never use or acknowledge
(Heck connect him to genos so genos gets some experience from them both)
@@Shaunshahriarbut he doesn’t really, he just stands there too scared to move with his heart pounding so hard it strikes fear into everyone around him and they run away. Like when he ‘faced’ atomic samurai, he just gave the sword back without slicing the apple and walked away thinking “damn, I’m done for now, he knows I’m weak”, but because of King’s reputation Atomic Samurai assumes he jut cut the apple so fast not even he could see it.
@@NaThingSerious King put himself in harms way by standing up to Black S to stop the deaths of the other heroes. He literally had no plan after getting the monsters' attention other than praying something would defeat them before they killed him. I'd say that was pretty brave of him. He also stood up to Tank Top Master and told him to lay off Garou, despite knowing he would get his demolished if TTM even touched him.
Stark's intro is SUCH a good representation of fear. Not exactly cowardice, but REAL fear. The dragon is POWERFUL, and TERRIFYING. And no matter how powerful Stark becomes, he can't SEE himself overcoming that power and fear. Even when he's finally convinced to face it, it's only because he's tricked, told he has to hold it off for a bit so Frieren can prep a spell.
There was no spell. Frieren knew Stark could kill it, even if Stark didn't. She knew Stark would go all-out, because of his fear, thinking he had to just to survive. And the dragon wouldn't survive that. It's not until the dragon is already dead, at Stark's hand, that Stark REALIZES he did it. And he was TRICKED into it.
You know what the best part of Stark's cowardice is? Its introduction and delivery.
He wasn't just scared of a big monster and then realized he can do it and gained confidence.
He was the village hero for a VERY. VERY. VERY long time.
He saw a dragon, froze up, and gave up immediately. He thought he could never beat it, that there was no chance, it was over. Dead on sight. He got LUCKY when the dragon walked away, and in his head, he had to stay now. He lived in fear of that dragon every day, thinking that one day it would come back and finish him off. And then, finally, he found allies that were willing to help him remove this threat, the threat that has HAUNTED HIS LIFE AND STAGNATED HIM INTO HIS OWN PRISON... and then, before they can even help... he does it all himself, learning that literally nothing was stopping him other than his own fear and himself. He could have beaten that dragon months ago, A YEAR, even!
He was forced to come face to face with the fact that his cowardice is useless, a poison that weakens him, *the moment they introduced him.* After all that... it was over in 30 seconds. Stark faces horror after horror, and every single time he is forced to confess he is scared, each time facing something seeming even more impossible than the last.... and every time, he gives up. Every time, he doesn't think he can do it. And every time, someone he cares about or something that is just and good and should be loved is put directly in harm's way, usually by said horror. And every time, despite his fear, his broken will, he steps up. Each time he goes into that ring, he goes with the thought and knowledge that he will die. He is not coming back. EVERY time Stark has picked up the axe, it has been with the understanding that he will die. And EVERY time, he is proven wrong, that he is strong, that he CAN be great, that the fear is POISON.
and it shows that each fight, he progressively gets more brave and even pulling smart tricks and 900 IQ plan despite being the brute of the team. he doesn't just swing and swang with his axe, but thinks.
and then there's zenitsu..... yeah
I'd also mention that he plays the role of a tank *VERY* well in MANY fights. Not only is he brave for facing his fears constantly, but also he takes the role of a distraction, of a tank, and of a frontliner very seriously. Rewatch the team fights where he's working with the team and you'll see he immediately dives in constantly to drag attention to himself. He has fears, but his duty to his friends outweighs those fears.
It's one thing to fight a monster, it's another to fight a monster with the GOAL and PURPOSE to piss it off enough to face you directly.
It's also what makes him truly brave. Like the quote say: "True bravery is not not feeling fear. True bravery is acting, takong a stand despite the fear". And every time he takes up the axe to face a threat, he is ready to die. He isn't foolish, or arrogant, he is ready to give his life for the cause. If that isn't true bravery, I don't know what is.
"Fear is the mind killer."
Fear really is the mind killer.
The problem with zenitsu is that his fighting capability when unconscious never being addressed or properly talk about by the in universe characters.
It's make zenitsu uniqueness feels like a deus ex machina.
They just accepted that fact...
One thing for me that fall short about DS is this... The explanation... How do Zenitsu do this while unconscious? No explanation... Why Genya eats demon? No explanation...
@@cxncxrtmxstxr Genya has no talents as a swordsman (so no breathing styles), so he eats demon flesh, which allows him to briefly obtain the power of a demon.
@@ChaoticMess5618 I dont read manga but did they ever explains how tho? I mean, he cant just eat a bird then temporary can fly right?
@@ChaoticMess5618 i mean why like how does he think it would work? why does eating demon flesh give you power? what is the reasoning behind it? I like when they tell you the mystery behind it...
Bravery isn't a lack of fear, It's being afraid and doing it anyway because it's the right thing to do.
Like Zenitsu.
That’s courage. Bravery is the absence of fear!
@@jesquirrel9065 no????
@@SarYia. Their's literally a saying "put on a brave face" for when someone feels discouraged, dissatisfied, afraid, etc. It's not "put on a courage face ". Although honestly I think your whole argument is pedantic and the words are interchangeable.
@@gentlemankaiju1997 I’m sorry :( was just trying to help
In before Zenitsu apologists say not only he isn’t a coward but also he is normal and not weird around women
Zenitsu always annoyed me beyond belief. I hate him so much.
@@Poke_Ieapcalm down
I like him purely because of his powers, but his loudmouthed antics get old. The perviness kills it.
Also he shouldn't be able to perfectly assess a fight and communicate while asleep. I can get his body reacting by instinct but full on strategizing?
I was so deeply disappointed with how Zenitsu was written/portrayed. I really wanted to love him because there's something endearing about the coward finding courage and a sense of self worth, but I just couldn't with him.
It can be confusing though because Demon Slayer women aren't written like they are actual people. Is it so bad to be weird to cardboard cutouts?
Fear makes you stronger
-Souls gaming
Your mixing up fear with bold faced stubbornness lol
@@alwayssecond2 Bravery can not exist without fear. 'Bravery' without fear is recklessness
When I played DS 2, I didn't feel afraid just annoyed that the world was so empty ( yes, there is worldbuilding but it is hardly presented to you ).
scout gaming
And hesitation is defeat
I remember describing Stark to my friend once and saying "He's like Zenitsu but........ better". Thanks for crystallizing why lmao
I agree that the lack of explanation I’m Zenitsus ways really drives home how annoying his character is with the lack of redeeming qualities
I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money
His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
@@w1nther930 Absolutely agree, the only reason zenitsu continues being a demon slayer is the trust his master jigoro had in him and to parts his love for nezuko, as if he quit he could never see her again. And while he is a very annoying character the change we see at the end of season 4 (the hashira training) where zenitsu is all serious has a good reason, which we will get explained in the movies the cover the final arc of demon slayer.
@@Snowy_Yuki_X3 Honestly, it's sad how Zenitsu's character is reduced by others because they forget his past, and they even prove his quote about running away
@@w1nther930I think you’re misunderstanding the criticism. And this only applies to the anime and it’s portrayal, because I did not have same issue with the manga. His past/ motivations/ backstory.. do not matter if he’s super annoying. That’s all there is to it. His portrayal in the anime is so annoying that when he’s on screen, and awake, he almost ruins the show. It’s just extremely frustrating. Has nothing to do with his past.
@@StantonSims2112 I'd go so far as to say him being annoying does ruin the show. After the hype of season 1 and episode 17 we all had to wait for season 2. Watching that after a hiatus and being forced to listen to all the whining and screaming again was awful. It was too easy to forget just how annoying he was in season 1 and only remember the good parts. But nothing changed in the second season and I very much considered stopping entirely.
Even worse, zenitsu protecting the box is partially just set up for his other annoying trope where he chases Nezuko around.
he didnt knew who nezuko was tho when he was protecting the box
it could’ve been a gateway towards him learning how to protect others at his own sacrifice, he could learn how to turn fear into courage and that couldve been his start! But nope lets throw that away for haha funny scene
The chasing nezuko scene likely would just be something that could be brushed off if they actually grew his character but surprisingly that scene ended up being more character defining than him protecting the box
@@Zetsubou-69420he didn’t know who nezuko was, but he was aware that Tanjiro was carrying a demon in the box because Zenitsu’s enhanced hearing is able to differentiate demons from humans. He protected it because Tanjiro asked him to.
He didn't know who nezuko was at the time. He just knew the person inside was important to tanjiro💀
@@kanekikingstorm2113 yeah but the Original comment is implying that he was only protecting it cause he knew it was nezuko inside.
The zenitsu only braving it up for tanjirou's box and then it not adding up to anything is a case that happens quite frequently in media when the author loves the main character too much, and everything that happens must happen related to the main character. Frieren is a breath of fresh air because despite loving her so much, the author loves all the other characters as well, and gives them the developments they deserve independent of the mc's cause. Their emotions, bravery, cowardice, choices, growths have fluctuations and aren't treated as on and off switches that can be conveniently used whenever plot requires it, rather their ups and downs become important cornerstones of the plot itself.
What's hilarious is that demon slayer just has bad writing.
I watched the first season and an ova/movie/whatever and the only trait I know the MC has is "Loves sister. Works hard."
Like people dog on Kirito from sao for being bland... demon slayer imo is somehow worse or equal.
literally zenitsu standing up against daki to protect the girl-
like yall are just Alzheimer patients fr.
demon slayer is meant to be dumb fun, everything doesnt have to be philosophical like chill tf out
@@blanche42 Go watch an Isekai or sum man. There's people actually thinking here.
@@Someone-vq1jm everything isn't a source of learning. Pseudo intellects like you think so highly of yourselves. Despicable.
@blanche42 Your the one that needs to chill out wth are you calling people Alzheimer patients over some just noticing a character has bad writing?
Another contrast between Zenitsu and Stark that I feel like is very important to highlight, is how in Demon Slayer, the "joke" of Zenitsu freaking out always overstays its welcome which makes it even more tedious. By all means let them keep their core personality traits, that's genuinely important. But for the love of God, watching someone scream out in panic for half a minute for the 17th time is NOT funny....
I actually talked about this very subject with a friend and compared these exact characters a few weeks ago so the timing was great 😅 Lovely video and great analysis as per usual!
I mean, its kinda subjective. I find it funny him panicking over anything. And its not something like "i have a broken humor", because its subjective
@@vittoriosavian9964when it comes to thing that are subjective, we use majority rule to determine whos right. Most ppl think zenitsu is unfunny asf therefore the jokes simply aren't good.
@@o0ugi860and majority is made by you? The majority loves zenitsu lol
@@o0ugi860 popularity is an incredibly awful and flawed way of judging art
I hate Zenitsu. lol
Stark may have overcome his fear of dragons and demons, but he'll never overcome the fear of waking up late and seeing Fern's pouty face.
Man like real life huh.
The worst nightmare
I often think of the Leap of Faith scene in Spiderverse when it comes to bravery/fear. The glass that Miles was holding onto shattering when he jumps wasn't just because it was cool in the moment - it was already established that he can't unstick himself when he's afraid. We don't just infer that he was probably afraid at that moment, we KNOW he was - and he leaped anyway.
Thank God you exist. I don't know how I would have survived this three month manga hiatus without your weekly essays.
His voice and use of music
the manga comes back the 7th
No way really?
Frieren: "Only 3 months?"
Finally someone made a topic about this. I love how Stark might be a coward, but he has *courage,* just like his master before him. And that's all that matters.
Cavendish from One Piece is a great example of a character only becoming powerful after they pass out. Oda explores consequences, an in-world explanation for why it happens, and hints at a backstory without missing a beat through the story.
Who up here remember when Usopp dodged a villain’s powers because his anxiety was just THAT BAD, to the point where said villain dropped the battle shit and just started telling him to not give up on life.
Das my GOAT right there, NOBODY doin it like him 🫡🫡🫡
fun fact: THe creator of demon slayer ended the series early so a lot of character development that characters like the hashira or zenitsu needed was just absolutely rushed
I really wonder why, I mean, I really, REALLY don't like demon slayer but it was really popular. Why would the mangaka need to rush this manga when, usually, popular manga on the contrary get draged out ?
It just doesn't make sense to me
@@lahomi The creator probably only intended for a shorter story, but it blew up in popularity and they had to patch holes in the ship while it was already out at sea(kinda like one piece's author; but given how he has to keep extending the story, he has plenty of time to fix stuff up)
@@lahomiShe wanted to end the series quick and rushed a lot of the story plots and arcs which is why it has so msny plot hole and inconsistencies.
She didn't give it time to cook.
@@bunnyconcubus8468 yes I know and it is partially why I don't like it x) just... I don't understand why, that's all
@@delfuscreeto7552 Hmmm, I guess, but still, a lot of things makes me think that it was supposed to be longer but the mangaka had to make the story shorter forr some reason (like, the number of moon originally before muzan kill half of them without any good reason, the characterr really rushed, etc etc)
The closest reason comes at the end of the series (manga) sadly but I understand your points.
I feel zenitsu's growth is undermined by his somnambulism and generally character growths are also not explored as much in demon-slayer safe for with-tanjiro-hashira moments
😞😞
As much as I'm Demon Slayer fan, it has many writing problems and flat character building.
I really love more how many variations the fandom has taken on the possibilities each character has that THAT is what made me respect or like some of them and love the potential that world had (even if in the canon wasn't as well done)
Jujutsu Kaisen is one of my top 3 manga and I'll be the first to admit it has a lot of problems. I think a true fan can acknowledge the flaws while still enjoying the series.
@@gundamguy833 I have the same thinking! I also like JJK and I acknowledge what you talk about haha.
Still, what they made right is what made them a huge success.
In my case, even with their flaws (such as flatness in certain aspects or the vertiginous rhythm in decrease of building better empathy with characters) I was still able to enjoy, connect and being avid for more... I never was into fanfiction, AU, OC or such as I'm now around DS, JJK and BnHA and it was because DS open the door haha
@@CherryNah
I can relate so much to y'all
Even though I hadn't watched that many animes I still had my fair share of badly written ones, whether they were flat, repetitive or overall bad I still somehow managed to enjoy them in my own way, Iets add the fact that fandoms change alot of people's perspective on said anime
prime example for me is mha, at first I didn't have any reliable ways to watch anime so I tried to base my opinion of it from the fandom, and since a large portion of it is toxic and pretty cringey, I was sure it was a pretty shity anime but when I got the chance to watch it (AKA binge-watched all 6 seasons) I instantly loved it, even if some characters are poorly written or designed I managed to overlook those and focus on the more positive things, from there I was open to accept a lot more different animes and the community of said animes
@@gundamguy833so real. learning to tolerate the gege-cycle and enjoying the manga in all its jankiness did wonders for my sanity. sometimes you just gotta turn the brain off and raw dog it to enjoy it 💀
there are a few flat characters like tanjiro, zenitsu, nezuko, and so on, but there are some characters who definitely make sense tbh. the characters aren’t as flat as jjk characters, though that isn’t much of an accomplishment 💀
Making this video before getting to water seven hurts
Edit: honestly the ussop analysis was pretty spot on but still
Usopp's character is made pretty clear from the start. No more than week or two into being a real pirate he shoots Arlong in the face to save Gen, with zero support in sight. His fear is not an obstacle when it really counts.
Then what was going on on onigashima, with ulti?
If only most of Usopp's character growth didn't get thrown in the trash after Water 7/Enies Lobby
@@milkman2808 It didn't
@@milkman2808except it didn’t tho. If you’re referring to Dressrosa, then Usopp only grew more cowardly AFTER Robin was affected by Sugar, which means he forgot she ever existed, which means he forgot all the personal growth he had during Water 7 and Enies Lobby because he’d have forgotten about Sogeking and his entire section of massive growth in that arc. And even without it, he comes back to win the battle and become the MVP of the arc.
I'm so glad you've made this video! I get frustrated when I hear my friend say "Why don't you like Zenitsu? He's just like Usopp". You've highlighted the differences between these three characters so well, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love that you suggest improvements for Zenitsu as well. I also don't want to write him off, I just wish I saw more growth from him sooner, or that I learned more about him in general.
If you like Usopp so far, I highly recommend watching or reading all of One Piece. Usopp is such a good character with really significant moments. The Water Seven Arc and Thriller Bark have especially good moments.
I'd say that my favourite coward and insecure character in anime is early Simon from TTGL. In just a couple of episodes they manage to establish his fears, show his bravery in facing them and foreshadow the kind of man he can become if he gets over them. Him returning after his funk is among my favoutite moments in fiction.
Ttgl?
@@Kururu265 Gurren Lagann
Virgin Shinji Ikari vs chad Simon the Digger
@@paulmerviel1617 Broke "Nobody cares whether I live or die 😢" VS Woke "Believe in the me that believes in you!!!"
@@paulmerviel1617Shinji is a simon who never had a Kamina
Another amaizing analysis and Starks growth seems only to have begun, theres so many things he does in the name of heroism despite his fears following the exemple of 3 great characters (Aisen,Himmel and Stoltz) that he feels like he cannot let them down, i hope one day Stark in the story can get momentos of those characters to represent them like his brothers cloak but all burned from the battle and heros sword in hand, the possibilities are so good for his character.
i find it very beautiful the way you explain certain concepts and your thoughts, it's very well put together, i like it a lot
I'm writing a story right now, and there are 3 main characters so far. Two of the 3 are cowards, but the reasons for their fear and how they experience and deal with it is different. the primary mc is dealing with the trauma of his father being assassinated in front of him and being unable to stop it. This translates into a not unfounded fear of losing the other people he cares about, and he experiences his fears constantly and it wears down on him. He just forces himself to keep moving as a distraction, and at one of the pivotal moments in the story when his friend is about to die, the state of panic throws him into a desperate fit of action disregarding his own safety to stop it. The other coward in the party is a socially airheaded magical genius. She is by far the most powerful member of the party, but the moment she realizes the primary mc might die, she freezes up and goes into shock and has to be shaken out of it by the weakest member of the party so she can save him. The one member of the party who isn't a coward is the weakest of the three. I enjoy writing these character juxtapositions, and I believe I've managed to do it well enough that none of the characters are annoying with their cowardice. But I think there's more to do to make the characters even more compelling, and this video essay shed some light on one part of that. So thanks!
I just largely thinks he's missed Zenitsu's character a lot.
He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money. His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
PLEASE FINISH IT I BEG ILL BUY THE FIRST COPY🧎🏻
@@w1nther930
True, either this guy didn't really wait for the last 2 arcs to be animated or just that he forgot S1E17 exists. And no, Zenitsu selflessly protecting Tanjiro's box WASN'T the only time he was selfless & brave while awake. During Season 2, He even confronted a demon he knew that is a LITERAL UPPER MOON DEMON, just because he saw the Upper Moon hurting a child. It is common knowledge for Demon Slayers to know that Upper Moons are invincible, untouchable & extremely powerful, yet Zenitsu of all people had guts & was selfless enough to even grab an Upper Moon's arm and told her to back off. These two were also not the only time, to shorten it; In the light novel "For Whose Sake", Zenitsu actually tried to confront an enormous demon because a girl was terrified of it. During Season 4, Zenitsu helped & even took Genya to run away with him so that Sanemi wouldn't hurt him (it was portrayed as a joke, but it was a brave action for Zenitsu). During the final arc, Zenitsu held off & fought Muzan Kibutsuji himself while motivating Tanjiro to fight for his sister's sake, a life whom he resides in an assumingly beautiful world.
@@AMercenary...Withaheart Zenitsu in infinity castle is a different beast entirely, he's hashira level and can fight awake. He wasn't that in season 3
@@w1nther930
No I meant the time when he confronted Upper Rank 6 Daki during the Entertainment District arc, NOT about Upper Rank 6 Kaigaku during the Infinity Castle arc. When Daki pulled the ear of a child until it bled, Zenitsu interfered, held her wrist & told her to back off, even after knowing full well that she is an Upper Moon Demon. That was such a brave & selfless action.
Usopp at arlong park is such a great parallel to stark facing the dragon
I love coward characters like Yajirobe from Dragon Ball Z. He is basically just a guy with some half ass karate training, but when it matters he jumps in to save his friend. He remains a coward after, but in the moment his fear of losing his friends is more potent than his own self preservation.
let's not forget the fact that he's the one who cut off Vegeta's tail
Zenitsu almost made me quit watching Demon Slayer. Unless he's asleep, I feel like he makes every scene he's in worse.
I did quit Demon Slayer because of him. 😅
I did quit cuz of him hearing he gets better at the end. It makes me wonder, "Why wasn't he like that sooner? Why must he be asleep to be useful/tolorareable?"
@@TFoxhound he relapses after killing the upermoon
@@ImNostalgicer that's worse imo my God
@@TFoxhoundthen don’t watch bruh holy crap why y’all hating so much go do something else with your time
Personally i felt that zenitsu was not only just a coward but he simply just felt like he was a pathetic person and that he thought he just wasnt strong enough to do anything but at the same time he does truly want to help people and save others even though hes afraid and thinks so little of himself, but when hes asleep he dreams about being the person he truly wants to be, someone whos strong and can protect people because to him its just a dream whiuch is why he usually doesnt remember anything afterwards. Honestly i feel like a lot of people forget thta many of the demon slayers who joined were either just straight up crazy or they had a personal vendette against the demons meanwhile zenitsu was just forced to become one due to his past.
And why doesnt he quit? theres a clear reason but many people seem to forget it. zenitsu always had people look down on him such as his past girlfriends who used him and the only person who actually believed he could be someone better was his master who was the one who helped him and paid off his debt and even when he did try to run away it was his master who dragged him back, so why doesnt he quit? becaus he obvioulsy wants to be that person his master believes he is and truly make him proud that is his motivation and its that very motivation that makes him get serious in the next season.
I used to hate zenitsu back in the first season as well but he eventually grew on me, I feel like people doent givwe zenitsu enough credit for who he really is behind his cowardly act and thats because they just dont understand him that well
nah the story should've given him a better arc
@@danielnidhiry5796 dont worry the better arc is actually starting to happen but we need to wait until next season
Great response! I couldn’t say it any better myself, I believe Zenitsu really embodies cowardice unlike Stark, which isn’t a bad thing but it’s important to acknowledge the diff. bet. fear and cowardice. At the end of the day, Stark was still brave enough to face that dragon and other strong opponents unlike Zenitsu so far who runs away or goes unconscious when his life is threatened.
@@danielnidhiry5796 they will (spoilers further down)
If you remember the letter zenitsu received during the previous season the letter informed zenitsu that his master ended up committing seppuku (ritual su*cide) after one of his other students ended up becoming a demon (the one who trained with zenitsu named kaigaku) and after hearing that news zenitsu decided that it was finally time for him to step up since he now truly has something to fight for and he ends up facing kaigaku in yhe infinity castle
@@kachiedits6231 ik but that was pretty rushed i prefer his arc being growing confidence as he keeps fighting demons
I think another great example is Subaru from re;zero. Now I can't exactly be talking about him too much, I barely watched the anime. But I heard from other people and overall just my analysis, that Subaru is afraid of the threats, but he's always backed out in a corner, he needs to face it and utilize 'Return From Death' properly, otherwise it would end up bad for him. It eventually became a character growth for him to the point he knows he must face it and he faces it as the time passes by.
To really subvert the coward trope in anime, the coolest thing I've yet to see would to have your coward... give up. How layered and nuanced that would be that when someone is truly afraid, they no longer care about their "hero moment". It's innate self-preservation at that point. Basic instinct. To be afraid and not care to be brave in the end. I would love to see a secondary character give up.
I will never agree with the sentiment that realism can't be fun. I've always felt that anime was missing something. It feels like it always scratches the surface with character depth. Which is incredibly strange because I read Japanese literature like Murakami and Kawabata- who both go into the surreal depths of the human psyche and primarily focus on the intricacies and complex nature of their characters. To be fair, I know and understand that anime is supposed to be a "light medium" for everyone to enjoy... I get that most people don't want to feel empty, or question their existence after watching.
To me anime has always felt like: Character A is like this because pre-established B, C, and D. Sob story, dead mom, bullied. Just plug in a formula and you have an excuse for why your archetype exists. Okay, well humans don't act like that. We change and adjust and can be come unrecognizable for better or for worse. I am interested in seeing the "for worse". In quotes because who could blame anyone for being scared.
Edit: Shinji lmao nvm
I wonder how many times people have written whole essays on tropes or particular implementations of tropes they want to see in anime before realizing NGE beat them to the punch
Might just be me but i too am getting kinda tired of the OP hero whos brave has a harem and never makes mistakes beside the one time he let his sensei or friend die for development. Probably why I have fallen for NGE, no one is depicted as a perfect white knight.
Edit: Also for the first point I kinda agree, but i also want to see a “will to survive will sometimes be greater than the will to win,” aka the character being afraid to the point where its either they give up and run away OR just tap into the “fight to survive” type of energy since we sometimes get overfilled with the “win at all cost, even my life” trope.
Have you watched Jobless reincarnation?
It absolutely tackles some fairly heavy topics… I empathize so much with Rudeus too much for my liking but damn its great.
That's why I love that one character development in Vinland Saga Season 2. Not gonna explain further for spoiler reasons.
@@ickicki there is a character in jojo like that
so much respect for you man, you put so much effort into all 3 channels!
This video just made me realize that I to enjoy characters that fall under this archetype as long as they're well-written. I've enjoyed more as a concept recently but Sousou no Frieren made me realize that it can be executed beautifully.
Well done on this video, but I did have something to say about zenitsu.
I can understand why people don’t like his character, since it’s kinda the point in the beginning, but I wouldn’t argue that it’s realism for why he acts like that.
Both zenitsu and inosuke are introduced as annoying and irregular people. We see zenitsu being a a huge coward, and lecherous. However, zenitsu’s is not just playing the coward archetype, but the something more like the crouching moron/hidden badass. We see that behind all that fear and idiocy, there is a competent demon slayer underneath, but he can’t.
Because of this hidden skill that he has, it creates more of a mystery as to how he was able to hone this skill and why he’s so afraid when he can be so capable, something that is explained much later in the story (I won’t spoil it if anyone wants to read it).
I’m not saying you can’t hate zenitsu, that’s kinda the point (even characters in the show acknowledge his shitty behavior) but overtime, we see him slowly begin to change, towards being both more responsible and less selfish.
And with the crescendo of his character arc happening soon with the movie trilogy, I expect people will be changing how they view zenitsu.
I look forward to these every week!!!
Thank you so much for this video!! This kind of analysis makes me so happy and it gives so much more appreciation for excellent writers who come up with characters like Stark!!!
I love how you nailed every character in this video and I'm excited for Infinity castle ark because this is where Zenitsu actually faces his own fears without being asleep
SPOILER ALERT
During the Hashira training ark Zenitsu got a letter communicating that one os his fellow peers (Kaigaku) who is also a thunder breath user had transformed into a demon and that his Grandfather commited Seppuku due to that.
This is an inflexion point for him because while he does blame Kaigaku for his grandfathers's dead, he puts blame on himself for not stepping up against his own fear and showing his grandfather how much he's grown while he was alive. This is where he stops falling asleep and faces reality with his eyes wide open, even fighting against Muzan himself.
Although he's still a creep around women -_-
Whilst I agree with a lot of the criticisms on Zenitsu's overall character writing; motivation wise I think there's a bit more to understand. The Thunder Hashira saved Zenitsu from a life of servitude by paying off a life debt Zenitsu has been burdened with (through his own incompetence). In the same way Stark is going on his journey to return to Eisan with stories, Zenitsu stays with the Demon Slayers to honor his master.
Call me crazy but I feel like that's barely ever mentioned or even hinted?
I think I remember that happening but that was like one time and after that; not much callback to it or anything, right?
I might just be forgetting smth but we know the other dude motivation either because of how they act or them straight up talking about it
Zenitsu cries and cries says I don't wanna be here and then gets mad at his friends
I mean it's been a while since I've seen the older seasons but thats the core things I remember about him.
@SultanRayko That IS Zenitsu. He cries that he doesn't wanna be there, yet he still stays. People just forget to ask why.
@@Rayko_v.1 You know, it's quite easy to figure out why he doesn't quit. No one expects anything from him. He was neglected by his parents of proper guidance and ended having 7 ex girlfriends who all abused him and used him for money, with a debt of around 600.000 yen as a result. That's about 4000 dollars worth of debt. His mentor paid it all off, and whenever he ran away, he got dragged back. His mentor is the first and only person at that time to ever expect something from Zenitsu, and even paid off that HUGE debt, of course Zenitsu won't quit with this.
@@lapizlapoppy That's because we wish he'd just go.
I mean not exactly his own incompetence? Zenitsu was betrayed by girls he loved and thought loved him back.
That aside… yes, he is annoying in my opinion, wish he wasnt even in the story. XD
You should have 2 million subs easily. Love the analysis, the content is incredible! Keep it up!
Zenitsu was funny at first, I remember laughing at his quirks at the start of the manga. But then it stayed a recurring joke with no resolution and I can't even remember if he lived or died by the end of the series. One of the central characters in the story is literally a joke, nothing more than that.
Which is sad, I agree with you that a coward is an interesting archetype. As anxiety being one of the lead mental issues and every person is affected by it in at least some degree in their lives, it feels therapeutic to watch a scaredy cat getting a hold of themselves and amount to something. It just hits home.
what is you talking about zenitsu beat upper moon 6 all by himself and fought muzan and you call him a coward (he was one in the start its called character development)
@@kmekosnk840 all his character development happened in the last part of the last arc. I love Demon Slayer but I can still point out that it has a huge flaw with pacing its character development to the point it hurts the story (with the expectation of their actual training/power scaling).
@@SpacemanTheo it has ahuge flaw with pacing in general bruh, zenitsu grew because he had to fight someone he knew before
@@kmekosnk840 not arguing that it's not a good backstory or a great climax to it, I'm saying that it there was no real build up and therefore that climax is soured. He's whiny and annoying and any bit of progress he does make (protecting Tanjiro's box) is immediately revert/ignored two seconds later. He's great on paper, but in the actual end product, he falls flat.
@@SpacemanTheo he doesnt, the only time he gets serious is when he fights against someone he knows makes sense
Ussop's cycle every One Piece arc:
he lies
he gets scared
he runs
he turns back around
he fights
he kicks ass
his words came true
@@truthboom this. Ussop never lies, his truth is only delayed
@@samurai1993 The universe just takes a while to catch up with him.
another good character that is part of the coward architype is Fluttershy from MLPFIM. throughout the shows run, she takes baby steps to become less afraid. the show did explain it away with baby steps, but her growth is slowly shown
This felt more like a critique on zenitsu than an exploring frieren video 😂
If only anime could get rewrites, then I think so many shows would’ve been so much better.
Zenitsu is kinda deserving though, imagine if zenitsu's character is similar to stark he'd be much more likable but it's somewhat redundant because half of starks character is in tanjiro.
@@P1zzaGuy I completely disagree. Zenitsu has enough explination to give reasons for how he is. He's a largely depressed guy if you think about it. Hell, the people even prove one of his quotes. "You run away once and people think 'ah, this guy is no good'". Before Tanjiro, no one except his gramps expected anything from him.
No one has expectations that he'll become a good guy or that he'll be someone special, except his mentor. He runs away countless times and is dragged back. The reason he doesn't just quit is because his mentor actually did expect something from him. Someone, just one person didn't give up on him because he's a coward.
He had zero guidance from his parents and was neglected, and when he fell in love with a girl and gave her money, thinking he would appeal to her that way, he ended up in large debts and she just ran away with some other guy.
The dude had 7 ex girlfriends who all treated him like a slave and abused him while taking his money
His mentor paid off that debt, of course he wants to pay his mentor's teachings and help back.
No, let's not allow rewrites. Keep the anime how it was originally written. Write your own series
@@w1nther930Wow, you basically sum up his entire backstory but never change the fact that he's a poorly written coward troupe.
Dororo was heavily rewritted
Same for Evangelion
Very good video analysis, i personally haven't done a complete character study of Zenitsu but from what I've seen his cowardice is heavily influenced by his ambitions of finding a wife. Unable to socialize like a normal person he's forced to only socialize with the demon slayers (Like you want to join another social group but can't fit in, so you deal with a group you do fit into even if you don't like it). Eventually i feel like Zenitsu confidence began to only grow with these social interactions and friendships, his self image begins to become lower with thoughts like "Even if i can fight, its normal for someone to fear Demons, my actions and fear are justified, but here is someone like me but they're doing better. " I kinda feel like Zenitsu's main fear wasn't the Demons, but how others saw him.
I feel like there's something to be said for the idea of someone who's social anxiety wildly eclipses their fear of mortal danger.
@@hanegawamidori4081 Agreed, i haven't read the last arc, but after the last episode, it feel like his anger overtakes his anxiety. Causing him to not care how others see him and he's finally able to focus only on fighting.
Idk why but your voice feels so calming that its easy to binge all of your videos
LoL
I just love that Zenitzu is over the top. However, is he annoying? Hell yes. But I just love to laugh at him.
8:51 zenitsu is a demon slayer bc he is in crazy debt which is why he cant walk away, he also has huge respect for his master and continues to be a slayer because that's what he wants for him
Thank you for pointing this out, I was thinking the same thing! Also, they do show that zenitsu gets less scared throughout the show but for some reason he decided to fixate on season 1?
Yeah I feel the need to point out that Zenitsu has done several incredibly brave things while he's awake. They just haven't been during battles.
He protected Nezuko with his body without even knowing who she was. All he knew was that there was a demon who Tanjirou said was more important to him than his life. And after knowing Tanjirou for all of one day he was willing to put his life on the line to protect a demon he'd never met. There isn't a single other character in the show that would do the same.
When he was dying of spider poison he chose to keep himself awake in order to slow the poison as much as possible. He was in horrible pain and had no reason to believe help was coming at all. Realistically he was just extending his own suffering by not letting himself pass out. But he still chose to stay awake.
He stands up to Daki for the sake of a little girl he had just met.
These moments of bravery outside of battle are what make Zenitsu compelling and endearing. It's also worth noting that sleeping Zenitsu's power comes from his training while he's awake. The show is very clear about the fact that Zenitsu trained very hard to the point of skipping sleep to get the strength he has. It's just that his insecurity and fear stop him from using that strength when he's awake. If he can overcome those mental restrictions then it's entirely possible that we'll find out his sleeping self was always weaker than his awake self.
yess
@@ap7635 a little spoiler but yeah zenitsu does end up outgrowing his sleeping version by a lot, like the difference between fighting an irl sleepwalker and an awake ufc fighter
But the show doesn't feel the need to show that dynamic. If its a money issue, mercenaries that need money and lose a battle still run away. And his character isn't built up around honor like a stoic warrior so okay, his master wants this thing for him, but there's not a rebellious phase where he's questioning? Why not a "I should fight, but my master's training would go to waste if I died here!" We're just told he should stick around because he's a main character.
I have been going through this series of yours watching each episode of Frieren for each essay, and reading each respective chapter in the manga. It’s nice to hear you clarify that you are talking about Stark in the show. The best part about this is that the show is very close being one to one with the manga, save for some animated parts that are likely to fill time for an episode. I am enjoying this series. Excited to see the end for season one and so on!
Also I showed the first two episodes of the show to my mom and 3 days later you posted the essay about how you can watch Frieren with your mom lol
yo I've been toying with the idea of comparing these 2 for a while now
I canned the idea but I'm glad someone else did it, and did it well
in defense of zenitsu... In 1 season of ds we can understand why he can't just walk away from being a demon slayer. He feel guilt to his master, who was absolute sure about that zenitsu will definitely became a good demon slayer. In the show there was the moment where zenitsu himself explain his sleep superpowers: Because he is sleeping, he can imagen himself as a better person then he currently is. In his dream this boy can be confident, and i really like that main idea like: "nothing can be a biggest wall on your path, then wall your mind can create". And by the way i mostly agree with 90% of what being sad in video. oh and sorry. I'm Russian and my English is not so good. thanks for your attention)
Still makes no sense, since he's somehow able to talk, strategise and communicate while asleep
@@o0ugi860 It makes sense he can fight because of his absolute hearing, but other than that, yeah, how tf?
@@o0ugi860 ok. That's poor writing, I agree. Anime)
@@o0ugi860 Bruh, Inosuke that can rearrange his organs makes less sense than Zenitsu's sleep walking and subconscious talking.
@@o0ugi860 p sure it's because he's essentially dreaming about what he'd do in battle.
because he cannot trust himself and his capabilities, it's when his consciousness is all lucid that the him he wants to be and the him he is bleed into one, hence the sleep movement.
it supposed to show that zenitsu is actually capable, but because of his crippling low self esteem, he can't bring himself to believe it enough to apply it unless he's passed out, at which point muscle memory and his hearing take over.
tl;dr: it was all a dream °•°°
While I mostly agree with your points, I honestly feel you its a bit unfair to Zenitsu. If you take a step back and look at the Demon Slayer anime as a whole, you see two notable points: 1) Zenitsu, Does have a reason that he is unconsious during his fights. 2) You didnt even acknowledge one of the moments that he DID stand up to his fears while he was awake.
1) Zenitsu says in S1 E17 that he 'wants to do better and he wants to be strong and capable but he just ends up running away' and later says that he DREAMS that he is strong and that he can save a lot of people. This points to the fact that Zenitsu doent believe that he is capable of such feats. He fully belives that the ONLY way he could save people is if he was dreaming. So he does.
2) Zenitsu stands up to an Upper Six demon in the entertainment district. He does this in S3 E3 to save a little girl from being mercilessly beaten by the Oiran (the demon) and continues to standup in defense even after deducing that she is a powerful demon.
It should also be said that he hasnt had much time on screen since the first season where he wasnt made unconscious Before the demon was there (The train he was put to sleep with demon art, and Entertainment he was quite literally knock out) so to say he hasnt grown much is saying it from an unfair perspective. We cant say he hasnt grown because we havent gotten a chance to see if he CAN fight awake.
Zenitsu and Inoske also still have major hidden areas of their backstory that need to be explained. While most other character has their story explained. I am pretty sure this is intentional by the author to give them a moment in the next few movies to grow to the challenge of the infinity castle.
"This is where we're going to start getting to spoilers" alright I shall see myself out and return once I finish haha. Noting its a 5:55 for me when I come back. Cool video! Can't wait to finish it ^_^
Hey remind me to do the same
@ila_cat haha i was just talking about this video with a friend yesterday! Thanks for helping me find it again ^_^
@@weloopal2547 you're welcome
Literally at that exact moment I was like “😬😬😬 Oh I do want to watch Frieren I’ll have to come back to this later”
ima pause here and address something that i love that you do. "if you find yourself back here consider subscribing." thank you for your realistic ask. when i watched one of your videos for the first time i appreciated that approach, but i didnt think i was gonna find myself back at your channel anytime soon. the second video popped up and i clicked. this line came up and i realized what had happened so i thought, "okay, thats fair. i can give a sub." then it happened again, and again, and again. you put out such consistent quality, and that line is perfect because it implies you arent looking for that one viral video. thanks pey
This is exactly what I've been feeling about Zenitsu since I finished the series. Great points man.
probably a bazillion people have said this, but if you enjoy usopp but don't want to commit to 1k episodes of one piece, watch the water 7 + ennies lobby arcs. his character development picks up there and it's really hard not to love him and admire him - the coward who so desperately wants to be brave and is afraid his superpowered friends will leave him behind
Very interesting analysis, however I think you have overlooked a lot of important factors :
1) Fear and lack of self confidence are not the only issues crippling Zenitsu. He also suffers from overthinking and intense anxiety. When you have anxiety, all your bad thoughts are magnified 10x and your panic mode is easily triggered. Usually, It interferes with your ability to normally function and make you forget basic skills (Like fear of public speaking can cause you to forget the speech you've been practicing by heart for days or how a big crush can cause you to stumble on your words and act stupid and out of character). But in the most severe cases people can actually pass out, the stress and panic is so overwhelming that their brain decide to shut down.
2) The background and upbringing of these 3 characters also count in how they deal with their issues. Stark was born in a Spartan like community so he already had a warrior mindset bred into him, he just needed the skills and confidence to act on it accordingly. When he's faced with danger and his brain goes to fight or flight mode, his education now pushes him to lean towards "fight" where characters like Zenitsu and Usopp half the time, are pushed towards "flight". Usopp grew up knowing he was the son of a great pirate who took the sea and spent his entire childhood dreaming to walk into his shoes. In fact every time he acts like a coward, his dream of becoming a great adventurer among his crew mates is what pushes him to turn around and face the danger. This is what the whole persona of Sogeking was built on. Other than that, Usopp may have some insecurities but he is very confident in his skills as a craftsman and a marksman. Zenitsu on the contrary, is for lack of better words, a nobody, just a normal guy. He doesn’t have any special upbringing and no real purpose to help him push through the fear and anxiety. Which bring us to the last point.
3) If you remember, Zenitsu already tried several times over to escape the Demon Slayer selection training. But every time it was his master/grandpa who brought him back. His sole reason to keep going on this path is exactly to not disappoint his teacher who was the only one who believed in him and refused to give up on him. Which might connect to why Zenitsu is so locked in at the end of the last season. Speaking as an anime only watcher, I guess something bad may have happened to the grandpa. So now all of Zenitsu mental energy, thoughts and emotions are now directed away from his fear and anxiety and towards only one specific purpose, which I guess would be revenge.
You’re right about the part where he has anxiety and was forced into being a demon slayer. But, this does not change the fact that he shows a lack of development and is not a “nobody”. He is a demon slayer who has special powers and a lot of strength, similar to stark. Even with the anxiety and fear Zenitsu has, he should still show growth by facing his fears. He fights countless demons and yet never shows any change in himself. He is an overall poorly written character because of his lack of any development. Using the excuse of “anxiety” and “no real purpose” is simply idiotic. His purpose in life is to marry Nezuko and to achieve it he has to defeat the demons. The author of demon slayer tends to use his “unconsciousness” to avoid his fears and any personal growth. This makes it feel bullshit and as if the author simply did not want to put in the effort to make him into a good character.
@@IcesGaming
1) " is not a “nobody”. He is a demon slayer who has special powers and a lot of strength, similar to stark" : the anime is literally named demon slayer so the fact Zenitsu is one doesn't mean anything. Plus in what way does he have the same strength and stamina as Stark ? The two characters evolve in two different universes, we have not been shown Zenitsu solo a dragon like we haven't seen Stark fighting an overpowered self healing demon at light speed.
2) "Even with the anxiety and fear Zenitsu has, he should still show growth by facing his fears. He fights countless demons and yet never shows any change in himself." : Except he never did fight them, he was unconscious remember ? Everytime he wakes up after the battle, he has no recollection of what transpired. The Infinite Castle Arc is probably going to be the first time he's actually fighting demons consciously.
3) "He is an overall poorly written character because of his lack of any development." Because Stark's character has ? Character development means he/she evolves over the course of the story. Stark facing his fears was the introduction of his character into the group and the main story. After that the only thing that developed with Stark is his relationship with Fern. The anime is still at his start, so there haven't been much going on with him except one or two foreshadows like with the sword of heroes.
4) " His purpose in life is to marry Nezuko and to achieve it he has to defeat the demons. " : No, you just made that up lol. Zenitsu's personality is basically that he loves girls, even after meeting Nezuko he kept hitting on other girls throughout the arcs. He has a special interest in Nezuko only because she's part of the group, nothing more.
5) " The author of demon slayer tends to use his “unconsciousness” to avoid his fears and any personal growth." : That's actually the only original thing about Zenitsu, and I've been watching shonen animes for 20 years now. Zenitsu forgetting about his fear and anxiety and fighting fully conscious, IS his character development that we are about to see in the last arc.
you can have all the explanation in the world but its still valid to find a character annoying with a cop-out writing
@@0927kira Never said it wasn't, everyone is free to have an opinion on a character. But if you want to build a whole argument as to why it's bad writing, it must be a fair one, and not just picking on stuffs that support your argument and ignoring the points that don't.
@@hikari9433 I mean, having a character switch off their coward personality without any reason just for the convenience of being able to defeat the bad guy is pretty lazy writing. It doesn't even come with any consequence or down side. He can talk, articulate, and even strategize while "asleep". Imagine if in the start, Nezuke can just unexplainably turn off her demon mode, just so they dont have to navigate the staying away from the sun bit or meeting people with a demon sister. That's what it feels like whenever I watch Zenitsu.
I hath, discovered A New Person of interest To Watch! Godspeed, Good work.
i feel like a big thing that makes zenitsu not grow is because he has zero faith in himself and is just overall depressed in the hashira training we see what could have been if he had even a little faith in himself it shows he can come along way in a short amount of time
Courage is not about being fearless. It is about rising above those fears to do the right thing.
- some wise guy whom I forgot
another reason why zenitsu sucks and isnt even realistic like people try to argue to defend him, is he just as whiny and cowardly when he is in a fully safe environement, he isnt deathly afraid bc he is facing terrifiying foes, hes just consistently the most whiny baby ever no matter how tiny the cause is
In one episode of demon slayer Zenitsu was crying and screaming for about 6 minutes straight. That was the moment I turned off the show and never picked it up again.
As Atomic Skull once said, "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down"
Not just zenitsu, all the other characters abusing thier personality traits is extremely annoying, everyone of them has a wierd personality and the only moments they r cool happen during a fight, it's so annoying, demon slayer is absolutely carried by animation
It is sadly the curse of shounen shows you are not allowed to write "Proper" good characters only stereotypes allowed and never deeper than two shouts.
stark is what we wish we could be but zenitsu is what most of us are, we just daydream about being great.
I truly love the culture that every frame is a painting and nerdwriter has created in this type of videos
It's wild that 150 episodes is "a small chunk"
One pieZZZe
As far as I’m aware, zenitsu does get his glow up… eventually.
Ussop is still a coward that always runs away but he no longer does it out of fear, he does it because his opponents are gods in close combat so of course he’s going to run.
In response to those that complain about realism in fantasy: “News flash! The genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee!”
I love that insult lol
Me reading demon slayer: "we could tell whats gonna happen by page and age 5"
He does, yes, in the next season. This dude uploaded this video thinking it was definite,
while the end of the last season literally reveals Zenitsu doing exactly what this guy mentioned at 7:41 ..... That is literally the cliffhanger. Zenitsu finally locked in.
The last season also made it OBVIOUS that Zenitsu was MEANT to still be mid until now because they showed how insecure he is compared to the others, due to his lacking drive and ability as a slayer. The boulder training made this so obvious that missing it must mean one has something wrong their level of perception. He is far weaker than Tanjiro and Inosuke unless he gets serious, which he now finally did.
I am not defending him by any means.
If anything,
I'm just attacking the flaws in this TH-camr's manipulation of the truth.
He brings up things that have already been given to us by the narrative,
while he pretends the narrative did not give it.
Classic case of people hating on the "pervy character"
Look at Sanji, Mineta, Jiraiya. (Yes even Jiraiya before his final battle)
People always over-invalidate characters like them and ignore certain story beats about them.
"Watch the Zenitsu fans defend him blablabla"
No, this is just a neutral guy here, attacking a Zenitsu hater who is being biased and purposely ignores things.
I am NOT saying the story is amazing, and that Zenitsu character is/will be amazing.
I am just saying the TH-camr is wrong and spreading misinformation/manipulation.
@@michaeltb2746 the whole point was growth and the fact that zenitsu's gimmick overstayed its welcome. Also he explains at the start of the video how he is going to exclusively talk about the anime. No need to be ashamed from defending zenitsu he is decently likeable as a character he just lacks any sort of growth. Being a shounen doesn't excuse DS because Usopp exists.
Sometimes i wonder, about his gramp commit seppuku because of the other student.
Had it came to be known as early as the first season of DS, season 1 zenitsu would've still react the same way he does in the latest season.
Just to show that zenitsu dont have solid character development throughout the story.
He lock in in the end? i mean sure why not. First season zenitsu would react the same. He finally hate demon, like the rest of the cast. He got gimmick(sleep while fighting) with no explanation, lost the gimmick at the end(because someone he love died), and no other character development.
Great video!
I hope you keep enjoying OP as you deep into its huge world full of characters:)
Demon Slayer Mango Spoiler-ish:
My real issue with Zenitsu is that he didn't grow. I absolutely believe he had no character arc. He had a character switch. He got mad and became serious off screen. The final arc was coming and the manga ran out of time to grow him. I genuinely thought it was a setup for a joke when Zenitsu looked all serious when he got the letter, expecting it to be something ridiculous he became serious about. But sadly i just didn't like him at any point in the series. Stark is great though. Stark is the best.
I'm no writer but thank you for pointing this out. Cause I genuinely hate how in the Hashira training arc. They had the perfect opportunity to actually develop Zenitsu but they didn't. It just happened off screen. And then when we see him in the infinity castle arc suddenly he's able to actually fight. Without falling asleep or anything and winning against an upper moon.
Like if we were shown his whole arc of overcoming the fear he had and becoming stronger. And then when he enters the infinity castle arc and defeats an upper moon. It would have been more fulfilling to see. Since we saw him work hard to reach that point.
Him making up an asspull technique just to win the fight against Kaigaku made me vomit
That fight was the definition of payoff with absolutely little to no built up
@@teriyakiburrito3036 i mean, his "character development" was sudden. Because the death of his grampa was sudden. Not that he had month to think about the trauma of the loss, he got tped into the castle not that long after it
You're saying as if the main character of Demon Slayer Tanjiro grew as well 😂. He's still the same dude from chapter 1 all the way to the very end. The difference is just that he's married and more skilled.
@@FlowerFruitTea I do wish we would've saw this tbh. But tbf on him killing an uppermoon, the uppermoon your talking about BARELY became one. So i think it makes sense that he was able to defeat him. And even then, he was close to death.
Ussop is a unique case, cause he fears those he believes stronger then him, if he were to return to say arlong park with his modern skills odds are he would wipe the floor with everyone but maybe arlong himself. Ussop only seems to be the same in the modern arcs due to the level of threat increasing with hin, he is constantly stuck in the position of being among the weakest members of the crew despite his increase in ability and strength. (I think this was something i had an issue with for a long time, how ussop had those moments where he was capable of soloing the fake strawhats, but then seemed to become a coward in future arcs, he didn't fear the fakes cause they were just that weak, in future arcs he was facing real threats so his attitude returned to what it usually is)
I understand your frustrations with Zenitsu and many people hate him because of his lack of growth throughout the series. For me personally, I do like Zenitsu's character since he represents a character who has a late-blooming character growth unlike what we all expect character growth to look like. Yes, him whining all the time can be seen as annoying but in some weird way, I find that related because, if we all start being honest, not many of us would be able to grow as consistently as many MCs if we were in Zenitsu's position and hence why I feel he is a realistic coward and instead of the anime cowards we all know and love. I do feel that not knowing the reason of his change at the end of the Hashira training arc makes it seem like a plothole but the final season will allow you underdstand his reason for his fear and what caused him to overcome it at the end.
Don't get me wrong, I think Stark is a much better character than Zenitsu but I feel like the only reason why people hate on Zenitsu is the fact that he shows how any of us would've been if we were to be in his shoes and that's why I like him as a character.
Stark is the perfect example of what Zenitsu SHOULD'VE been
Hey thank you so much for the shout out! It means a lot to me that my message resonated with you. When I first wrote the script for that video, I had a whole section talking about how Usopp does what Zenitsu doesn't, but ultimately decided to cut it, so it's super funny to hear you say the same things I wanted to. It's cool to find a like-minded creator. Great video, keep up the good work
When I was doing research for this video I found your video and it was great! Keep up the good work as well. You have some fans in this comment section excited to see you referenced
The character development for Zenitsu just took too long that I lost interest in him and get annoyed whenever he's on screen. I think that's why I stopped watching Demon Slayer like others did. Stark became my favorite character in Frieren right after episode 6 because what he learnt and he keeps evolving throughout the anime. Finally an anime where fear gets acknowledged as a good thing because courage doesn't exist without fear! Thank for the very good video!
I could’ve sworn the title name was : when fear makes a character better
But now it’s changed oh he changed it right now ? Wow
people forget zenitsu is in debt..
ha wow cant beleive i got this channel recommended, I would never expect it from his music but this is also fire
we stayin up past midnight for this one yall
the point of zenitsu's character is to show how he found a solution to being afraid and the trade offs are;
He is usually late to join the fights despite his power,
The lack of respect for him as a person showing why he can't grow as a character,
His reliance on him being unconscious as a crutch showing why he doesn't grow as a character coz him being unconscious is a reliable way(in the meantime)for him to fight and leading him think he shouldn't change if his method works,
People praising is power making him actually feel wanted and making him not want to change.
All this is going on in the head of a coward who is despised by nearly everyone around him for how he acts, who failed to learn all but one form of his breathing style, who can only use that one breathing style when he is literally knocked out, then waking up to injuries he has no recollection of. I like his character and his rare moments of heroism despite how he acts and that the consequences are internal. His annoying character tropes are clever way to contrast his immense power and how he could be way more if he changed. His character is also realistic in the way he doesn't change because many people don't change just because they are wrong.
The beauty of zenitsu's character is that he is in this cycle of "im weak" to "im actually strong" to "i dont remember being strong but people say i am" to "people dont like me except when i am strong" to "since im strong when asleep, i can make myself strong" to "i dont need to change since im already strong." Seeing him in this cycle makes him very interesting to watch.
I also just think this guy completely forgets Zenitsu's past. He's a guy who's been abused by 7 ex girlfriends, had a debt of 600.000 yen (4000 dollars) because of them, and his mentor paid it all off. His parents neglected him. No one wanted to associate with him. Only his mentor paid off his debt and expected Zenitsu to become someone great. Yeah, he runs away constantly, but his mentor dragged his ass back every time. He didn't give up on Zenitsu. Hell, large amount of the fanbase proves his quote. "If you run away once, people will think: Ah, this guy is no good".
You put a lot of my thoughts into words here, great video!
I think you raised an interesting point at the beginning of this video about the pursuit of realism in fiction. I mostly approach character writing and worldbuilding from the perspective of TTRPGs. I write my own campaigns and run a consistent game for some friends. For a little while, I was trying to make the world feel as real as possible, but after seeing a video essay similar to this one, I realized that what I was looking for wasn't a world that was "Realistic" but for a world that made sense. I think it is generally more important for the world/characters to make sense for how their written rather than be as realistic as possible, particularly in fantasy. If there is an entire fictional universe/world that characters have supposedly grown up in, they need to have a fundamental understanding of how their world works (see Avatar, Frieren, etc.) I think that's where a lot of discussion over cowardly characters being "realistic" goes wrong.
For the above reasons, Zenitsu and Usopp annoy me in their respective shows whereas Stark does not. For all of the reasons you mentioned, Zenitsu being a Demon Slayer makes no sense, unless it is a complete obsession with Tanjiro and Nezuko, he has no other reason to remain a demon slayer. And while people are free to disagree with me on the subject of Usopp, he continues to be cowardly throughout the One Piece story (at least to the point I've watched/read). I'm not trying to take away from his character development or achievements throughout the story, but he still displays the same cowardly tendencies no matter what enemy he is facing, and that grates against me.
I appreciate you putting so much thought into your videos, and I really love Frieren as a whole, can't wait to see what more you have to say.
The word I generally see used for what you mean here is "grounded", as in grounded in reason/sense and being fundamentally sound.
As for Usopp, though it's been a while since I've read early One Piece, I feel that his early presence is more about his unique voice in the crew of idiots, so he doesn't have as much of a narrative need to develop out of his cowardice-as annoying as it may feel if you're all aboard with the headstrong idiots (affectionate). As the Strawhat Crew becomes more and more of an undeniable threat on the world stage, Usopp's outright cowardice also reduces.
Skill issue. Zenitsu and usopp are goated characters
Stark for me has the qualities of both Eisen AND Himmel. He is a scaredy cat warrior who will do what he must when it counts.
His heart is pure and soft, with no intention of gathering fame, he always attract others to him.
He is the kindest warrior with the softest soul.
your videos are awesome!
7:28 wait. didn't they already explain this in the anime? or at least partially explained it. didn't it had to do with his really good hearing and him still being able to hear while sleeping? being able to hear things while passing out might have allowed him to basically be fully aware while sleeping (like lucid dreaming) and thanks to that, he's able to block the subconscious fears he has while he's awake