With such a massive energy source in the traction battery a metre away from the 12v DC battery, it should never become too low. The fault is in the car's system failing to energise the DC to DC converter properly. It shouldn't matter how often a small 12v discharge takes place as long as it is replaced instantly from the traction battery. It seems simple really. Just needs a system that detects less than 12v and switches on a top-up. Of course, they should also address the problem of the phantom drain at the same time but allowing the car to die due to a tiny lead acid battery having a low charge is plain stupid.
This has been a problem in hybrids as well since 2013. I jump my hybrid once a month since new. This is the worst design given the HV battery could be charging the 12vt anytime it gets low. It has to do with the low voltage shut down too
@@b4804514 Hyundai's hybrids have a button for reset of aux battery (at least in Europe) when after pressing it, the car wakes up and charges the aux battery. Hyundai makes hyberids and EV's from 2016 (in europe)
@@lb5444 - The 12v DC batteries in almost all EVs are simple lead/Acid car batteries designed to crank a combustion engine. A much better choice would have been deep cycle batteries as used for domestic power in RV's and boats. They at least can withstand a low charge. But the focus should be on both ensuring that the traction battery in an EV keeps the 12v DC charged and also eliminates the mysterious phantom drains that cause this issue in the first place. Then, with a deep cycle battery or a Lithium unit installed this ongoing problem may be solved. The measure to limit 3rd party apps accessing the car to 20 per day is like putting a sticking plaster on a broken leg.
The problem is when the car has the high voltage battery connected to charge the 12v battery there are losses in running those systems, so car makers will try and minimise times when the car is sitting idle charging the 12volt. This results in the 12v battery being deep cycled more often which reduces its life. This problem is made much worse by cars with higher parasitic drain that could cause the battery to be discharged and charged several times a day (worst case). This takes the useful life of the battery down to 2 years. An ICE car would never be sold with such high parasitic drain because it's unable to start it's engine to charge the battery. Whereas EV makers can get away with selling cars that discharge the 12v very quickly as the problem only comes to light after 2 or 3 years. If the battery was being charged more frequently to prevent deep cycling the 12v battery owners would be complaining about excessive range loss while the vehicle is parked. As with ICE cars if the EV is driven frequently on longer drives and charged frequently you are less likely to have issues because the 12v battery will spend more time in its fully charged state which is excellent for battery life. And will have less opportunity to become deeply discharged. If the car often sits idle for days at a time or is driven a few miles a day and not plugged in you are asking for trouble.
It's down to poor software - e.g. my Kona will discharge the 12v battery if you leave the boot or other door open for a few hours. a 12V booster pack is an essential item to carry in any EV
That does sound more likely than the explanation in the video (that they should have used a lithium battery). In a normal car you would blame the alternator, in an EV it makes sense to blame its equivalent system.
Maybe this is why my Chevrolet Volt left me stranded five times and had 13 check engine lights. 36k of total frustration. I was out of free tows. All three leafs batteries failed and recently had a 500e fail on test drive. Still driving my 13 smart fortwo. I only slow 110 charge it. 45k and going strong. Put tires and a lawn tractor 12 volt battery in it recently.
Hi from Texas. 1. I call this a “12volt starter battery problem.” Just to differentiate it from the big drive battery. 2. My ioniq 5 is fine after 6000 miles. My plug in hybrid ford escape had its 12v starter batter die and the car go black. Solution: I carry a small jump starter battery in both cars in the frunk. PS You showed one in your video but did not mention it. Good luck to your wife.
Hi Sam I watched an interesting podcast where they did an in depth look into how the ionic 5 charges it’s 12v battery and if I understood it correctly the problem seems to occur mostly when you run your main battery pack below 10% This seems to inhibit the system from allocating any charge to the 12v battery during that charging cycle and it’s not until the next charging cycle that the 12v battery will be included in the charging programme. Of course if you again run below 10% it won’t recharge it. I could be wrong but that is what I thought they said, anyway I’ve just ordered an ionic 5 over the new Peugeot 3008 based purely on how it drove but now I’m worried that I may have made the wrong choice 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks Sam. My Kia EV6 GT line is at the dealers now with this problem. It was new in May 22. First time I have had this problem. I don't think Kia / Hyundai are addressing this issue in the manner they should be!
My dad's car's 12v has had to be jumped 6 times in the past 2 weeks. The issue started right after we took it to the dealer for the preconditioning update and the parking brake recall. Today it was so bad the keyfob couldn't unlock the doors so I could get under the hood, I had to use the physical key. Spoke to several dealers who either hang up on us or said they didn't have any appointment slots. One gave us an appointment but they're an hour away and the appointment is for JULY
The root of the 12v battery issue is the DC to DC converters are off the shelf units that are designed for 12v Lead Acid batteries. When they recharge the 12v battery is hardcoded and the 12v battery chemistry is hard coded. The Nissan Leaf has had this issue for a decade and Leaf owners could easily get the 12v battery in an odd state if left their cars are left sitting overnight unplugged. These DC to DC converters are basically the same ones used in their hybrid vehicles and not specifically designed for EVs. And you're right, these are not cheap vehicles. If they had dedicated more time to designing a system with a small LFP battery and a controller that could recharge it from the main pack, this issue would never have occurred. The EGMP platform could use improvement and the 'starter' battery should be one of the first they address.
Replace with an AGM battery they’re designed to cope with constant small discharge and recharge. That’s why they use them in those stupid stop/start fuel saving cars.
My BMW i3 has a small AGM and its been just fine for 4 years. Also BMW suggest you leave the car connected to AC if leaving it for a long time. However opening the drivers door causes the car to check the 12v and charge it if needed. This also happens if the car is connected to AC. BMW also suggest changing the battery every 5 years. It costs about $100
A 12v nominal lithium ion battery is not a straight swap for a12v nominal lead acid battery as the charging voltages are different, the lead acid battery requiring a minimum of13.5 v while the lithium battery requires a minimum of14.6v but the DC-DC converters on most EVs only gives out a maximum of 15.6V maximum so a lithium battery may not get sufficient charge, which is why Tesla owners initially had problems immediately after Tesla switched to Lithium ion anccesory batteries.
Eclectic: But Tesla fixed it. That's the important thing. Problems happen with complex things. But for cars, the makers need to competently FIX the problems or lose the business of lots of their customers. Or deservedly lose the business / loyalty of many customers. Hopefully Tesla never fails to keep this in mind re any problem that happens to a significant number of customers.
A better and cheaper fix is to replace the 12V batteries with a GMP deep cycle type…the charging voltage being somewhat higher is more comparable with the existing DC converter and is far cheaper the a LiFe 12V battery
My 2019 Kona had the High Voltage battery replaced through a recall. No charge for me but last year I had a dead 12V battery and that cost me over $400. It was not under warranty. They said it is a consumable , like tires and windshield wipers. It should not fail after only 3 years. I was able to start the car by Jump starting it with another car and avoid an expensive tow. Read your manual for that. Overall I am very happy with the car and will not sell it. All cars have problems, this is kind of minor.
the 12v battery in my 2020 kona died after 26 months,.. if the battery needs to be replaced every 2 to 3 years,.its a fail.. i to am (sort of) happy with the car but its a fail and should at least be changed under warranty.
bossman61: It depends on how much it happens. If it happens once and I can jump it, then sure, no big deal. This happens with ICE cars and old batteries all the time. If it happens like half a dozen times (per the narrative), and is a big headache and expensive each time AND the car maker doesn't FIX the damn thing -- THAT'S a big deal. Especially when they blame the owner. I've had good and bad cars (and car makers). I'm not putting up with bad car makers any more.
Yup, just started for my 2022 ioniq5 in the United States. We have had to jump our car several times in the past two weeks. Our vehicle is 2 years and 2 months old, with 40,000 miles ( we are the original owners ). We are looking to replace the battery with an AGM deep cycle because we live in Eastern Idaho and it winter temps can reach -25F. Thank you for the information in this video, I sure hope Hyundai comes around. We haven't installed any dongles or third party apps, didn't even know that was a thing let alone unauthorized third-party apps.
We have a Kia Soul EV which has a very similar electrical system. We have had the 12v battery fail 3 times. The battery was changed after the second failure and new software added after the third failure. I had fitted a voltage monitor after the first failure. This provides in an app a graphical display of voltage over time. On the third failure in the last 12 hours before the failure was discovered the battery voltage was alternating between 7.5v and 19v. To achieve this the source of the problem has to be the DC-DC converter. Whether the new software has solved this time will tell but I have my doubts. Certainly 19v is not a symptom of phantom drain.
the ID4 with 3.1 software has an energy management option that is pretty good at ensuring the 12V battery is always charged, even if you drain this battery intentionally with an always powered on device.
The ID4 had this same issue about 12 months ago and it was fixed with the firmware update. I have a Tesla M3 in Melbourne with the lead acid battery and have had no issues although Tesla did have some similar issues several years ago. Again a firmware update fixed this. Tesla's track the 12v battery and warn long before it fails of an intending issue. 12v LFP batteries are perhaps 2 times the cost of a equivalent lead acid battery model.
There was the same problem with the Previous Ioniq. The problem is that when the battery goes, it dials the SOS. I had this happen to me. Next day, dead 12v battery!! It wasn't something that I did, I can tell you that!!
My Kona EV - new September 2022 - battery has failed twice - March 2023 and also June 2023. Hyundai dealership checked it - said battery was fine - they could find no fault - implied my car management was cause of fault - advised that main EV battery should not fall below 50% as this will maintain the 12v battery. I have bought myself a battery power starter pack to keep in the car to jump start it if it fails again
The 12V battery drain is almost certainty a vehicle design issue. 1st, there should be a battery rundown protection circuit on this 12V battery that almost certainly was not put in, probably to save maybe $2 in cost at the most. This would protect against all types of possible "owner" mistakes, such as leaving a light on inside the vehicle. Far behind the above as a root cause or contributing factor would be the design lacking the ability to charge the 12V battery directly from the main battery, by using a step-down converter circuit, particularly when the vehicle is parked or when charging. This would eliminate the rundown of the 12V battery due to its operation of its communications when parked. Again, this poor design choice would have been made by Hyundai, and not an "owner" or user problem.
My EV6 is currently in the shop with 12v battery issues. I have zero third party apps and rarely use the Kia Access app. I reported increased 12v charging instances to the dealer two weeks before I had a failure. I followed the instructions on the Kia Access app and jumped off the vehicle. Two weeks later, I had the low 12v warning after turning the EV6 on. Unfortunately, I could not put the car in PARK and was unable to TURN IT OFF!! I found a fix on the web and got it turned off, finally. Had to jump start the car again the next day. They say they have no fix for the issue. Two days of "testing" and no loaner for me. This should never happen with when there is voltage in the traction pack.
There was the same issue in the older Ioniq (28kwh 2019 model). My Ioniq had a 12v battery fail at 6 months old, it took a while, but it was replaced under warranty. The battery has been fine since. The real kicker was at the replacement battery cost $1000au I read on some paperwork that I was not supposed to see. I now carry a 12v lithium ion battery jump starter and a 12v battery monitor that fits in one of the old 12v ports in the dash.
Hyundai has fixed this problem by updating their battery management software. I have an ioniq 5 2023 and have not experienced this problem. There was third party software that called for the bluelink info from the car too may times per day. Hyundai was correct in limiting those bluelink calls. There is a dash board lamp that illuminates when the battery is being charged so you know that the car is keeping the 12 volt battery charged. This problem is no longer an issue.
I've never had a 12v battery issue. But I know that when the traction battery is below 20% and you do not charge the car..you can drain the cars 12 volt battery. When you have more than 20% in the traction battery the 12 volt battery wil be kept charged as I'm told. (I have a project45 ioniq 5. First generation.) But once I could not get my ioniq 5 in drive mode (zomby status it's called on internet). Could be triggered by restarting the car when it was still busy with the previous shutdown . Advise on internet found is: Shut down and close the car, start the preheating with your phone (bluelink) And than go back to the and restart. This did work....
I have owned my Hi5 since September 2021 and last summer we encountered 12v death several times. Spoke with dealer here in Sweden and they had to struggle with Hyundai on getting it on warranty replacement. The blamed me for using the app to much, having my key to close to the car. Keeping the car unlocked over night. Not unplugging the car asap it was finished charging. Keeping the trunk open to long while onloading. I have received several updates on bms , waiting for the ICCU update. Last week I got a 12v death out of nowhere and the charge didn't complete. 12v went from 12v to below 5v in 2 hours. And was unsaveable and Hyundai seems to blame me and no warranty. When I speak with Hyundai support they haven't heard anyone else with the similar problems 😂
In about 2009/2010 Jaguar Land Rover had this same issue of self flattening batteries. Cure was a BMS update and a change from lead accident to Absorbed Glass Mat batteries and to make the electronics enter a sleep mode.
Ok. But an AGM battery does not have the same charging parameters as a regular lead-acid battery. Did you change the charging parameters for the AGM after the swap? If so, where does one do that on the car?
I had lots of problems from new with 12v battery on VW EGolf, really annoying. The 12v battery does not top itself up whilst charging the main pack. It has to be charged by driving? Does it have a alternator somewhere? ☹
I got 2 years and 3 days out of my 12V battery (EV6 AWD). Been through all the "3rd party apps" (don't have any), "password changes" (what rubbish), iccu recall, and two months arguing with dealer the Kia. 'We can't help you as our checks tell us there is no fault with your vehicle" - "Even if your battery had failed within 6 months of purchase, if there was no fault with the car, it wouldn't be Kia's fault but yours". My first failure was 2 days after 2 year service, second failure 2 days after iccu recall "fix". Every failure (4 more) happened while the car is waiting to overnight (cheap tariff) charge. I will now at my cost change to an AMG battery which was the type Kia did all their development testing with. No more Kia's for me though.
This is NOT specific to the Ioniq 5 or 6 ! I have had a Hyundai Ioniq (38kwh) for 3 years, and this is my 3rd 12V battery... So far, I have been able to argue and have replaced free of charge, but I am afraid next one will be on me ! And I am sure there will be a next time... I have bought a "booster", and have been able to get started each time, but it is a pain (pardon my french !) ! They never admitted to any fault from the car...
@@teddystoner8288 The volt was designed not to charge the 12v when parked. It only maintains the 12v when plugged in to charge. GM has no clue how to make an EV. The parts GM handles are done wrong. The car is super sensitive to the 12v, it can decide that it won't flip the relay to engage the main battery when the 12v is slightly low. You end up having to use a jumper pack to slightly boost the 12v so the main battery will engage and then charge the 12v by having the car on.
Gred Kroh: With BEV's normally having LARGE batteries with LOTS of power in reserve, to me it's ridiculous that the software doesn't at least check on the status and TRY to charge the 12V battery from the bigger battery (trickle charge or something), and notify the owner what they're doing. Waiting 15 or 30 minutes for this would be no big deal. Needing to arrange for another battery or a tow, etc. -- that's a much bigger deal. Especially if you're in a place where that's not convenient to obtain quickly, is very expensive, etc.
@@teddystoner8288: Leave it to GM to have every potential problem in one form or another. Sounds like another issue BEV makers need to sort out, and some PHEV makers as well.
@@_PatrickO: With software like that (where it won't even TRY), no wonder GM is so hapless. I absolutely GET that if it tries and can't top up the 12V for a variety of potential issues, THEN it gives up and informs the customer. And that implies that before the car shuts down, it should charge the traction battery to a certain level with the generator -- and if the customer doesn't like that (because, say, it might need to run the engine to do that), then it should be a customer CHOICE re a selectable setting. For me -- I wan't my car to be durable and RELIABLE, or I'll choose a different car (and/or maker).
The MGZSEV mk2 monitors the 12v battery even when off and locked, if it gets low the DC DC converter kicks in automatically and charges it from the main traction battery if its within certain parameters. The Mk1 ZSEV didnt do this. This seems to work quite well.
I come from Austria and my 12V battery has already failed 3 times. The first time was my own fault, there were really too many bluelink queries from my smart home, the other two times it was a mistake you can make when charging. In my case, when charging (AC) is finished and the charging plug is not disconnected, the 12V battery discharges deeply within two days. The vehicle apparently does not recognize that the charging is finished and some control unit constantly draws current until the 12V battery is empty. My ICCU has been replaced or at least the firmware has been updated. In Germany there is a recall campaign concerning the Obboard-Charger, this seems to be a different problem, so far nothing has arrived here in Austria.
Sam here in the UK their have been a lot of 12 volt batteries replaced I had mine replaced after 2 years on my Kona Electric 2018 only covered for 12 months my main battery was replaced at 28000 miles this was a recall worldwide because some of the Kona's were catching fire several in Korea and I believe one Canada keep up the good work if you get time check out the Macmaster who is slagging of Electric Vehicles in my view he is doing harm by his comments best wishes to you and your family.
There is some things they can do to increase the 12V battery lifespan... * Charge the 12V battery while charging the main battery (not all cars do this) * Turn periodically on and off 12V charger in the car. (Not all cars do this)
I agree with you about the manufacturers blaming owners for the issues with their car. This is the problem with many companies and engineers today. No one wants to take accountability for their products. I am fine with the lead acid 12v battery if they use something that is easy to obtain. Lead acid batteries can handle extremes or abuse better than some chemistries, but the charging profile for them has to be correct. I owned a first Gen leaf. More than once, I had to disconnect, wait, and reconnect the 12v battery to reset and fix minor hiccups with it. I would disconnect it to reset the car wait and reconnect it and the car would basically fix itself and I was not stranded. I got replacement batteries from Walmart because they had a good warranty on a cheap battery. I did not care if the 12v battery failed because I could go to any Walmart and get it replaced for free or at a reduced prorated price. I also used a Solar battery maintainer plugged into the car in Winter to help keep the battery happy. Extreme cold affects them more than heat. Many battery chemistries, including Lithium, need to be kept from super low Temps or freezing. Lead Acid does better in the North where I live. I guess people in the South have a bigger problem with batteries. Boiling dry. Maybe Lithium would work better there. Time will sort these things out. If companies don't stand behind their products , they will go out of business quick.
Hyundai is notorious for not taking ownership of problems with their vehicles. This is the main reason why I will never buy a Hyundai. It’s really a shame because they make great cars. ❤❤❤
I was amused to recently read that the Hyundai or Kia CEO was blaming Tesla for affecting their customers used car prices….. talk about Teflon shoulders…
I have an Ioniq 5, 2022 SEL model bought on 30 Jan 22. Car died on the highway Heard a loud pop from above the rear axle. I made it home and found the 12 volt was down to 47 SOC. Car was towed to Hyundai. Local dealer said they did not feel comfortable doing a diagnosis but could fix it. Hyundai field tech, over the phone, said the ICCU and high voltage fuse had to be replaced. He said there are no ICCUs in the US. If I do not go by the dealer I never hear from them. I am one week away from the lemon law.
Same issue with 12v failure on my ioniq5. Was fixed under warranty but the car was in the shop for 3 weeks and a new BMS part was shipped from Korea for the fix. Dealer advised that I keep the main battery charged above 25% as the BMS will only top up the 12v from the main battery when above that charge level.
Another little hint, in the video you can see that you use a 12V jump starter to give yourself a "jump start". You have connected it to the + pole and the - pole of the battery, but this can damage the battery sensor, which has already happened to me once. It would be correct to connect the + terminal to the battery first and then the - terminal to an earth point on the body, NOT to the battery directly! I know the manual says otherwise, but that's wrong, please use only one point on the body. and sorry for my possibly bad English, my native language is German.
Hello. I got the same problem today. Can't do anything. Tried charging the 12v battery today and it seems to help. Now I can start it 😀. But must clear at the workshop. And tanks for the video👍😊
This is the other problem. Using non auto, or regular fuses. Tesla uses ic self resetting protection that does not require owner intervention. This removes the cost, weight and reliability issues of adding fuseblocks, requireing extra connections, failure points, taking up extra space in vehicle taking away from storage etc. It is just another reason why all other evs and oems are garbage and in so many ways.
Erm, this is a common issue with Hyundai Kona and has been for a while. Not seen this on the Renault Zoe, or Peugeot...I think Hyundai need to charge the 12v better and improve the BMS.
I have the i6. Its 2 weeks old. It was driving just fine, had no problems, drove the car all day. Went to go out with my husband just to do errands and it's flagged up 'check electric vehicle system' summit like that. Trying to find any information as I've been told its something I've done, they keep asking what I did to it, I'm a wheelchair user and they expected me to drop the dead car back by magic or something. Hopefully on Monday they fix it. But bluelink isn't showing any issues. I hope they fix it soon coz having no car has been a pain in the butt. Can't have a hire car due to issues with my licence so no car till they fix it.
I have a Huyandai Kona Electric 2022. I had 3-4 times first year when the battery died. I could only start with a external batterypack. It was drained. They said it was because how i was using my car. I mostly used it for shorter trips, and multiple everyday to drive to kids schools, practices, work and shops. It never managed to load the battery on the shorter drives. After a year with several issues they changed my battery. Since then i have had 0 issues. Still driving the same way. But something must have been wrong with the battery.
Mine died last week. Car was parked at body shop for few days as I got rear ended. The car died when I picked it up. Dealer diagonosed it as ICCU and ICCU fuse failure. Wait for parks is 5 weeks. Vancouver Canada. AWD Ultimate 2022 with 28,000kms 13 months old.
I've got mine connected to a smart home setup (due to the solar panels on the roof), and I pull data from the car about 10 times a day via API with no problems. However, I've encountered an issue where my Ioniq 5 died while plugged into a wallbox charger with 90% of the main battery remaining. I replaced the 12V battery and installed a monitor on the new one. I then noticed a significant drop in the 12V battery's state of charge (from 90% to 20%) in just 2 hours, while the vehicle was parked in front of my house unlocked. It was just unlocked, with nothing else running. Also, it looks like there is no 12V charging when wallbox cable is plugged in (not even charging :D)...
40k miles on our 2022 AWD and not one dead or even low battery. I bought a small jumper but have only used it on other cars and never needed it for the Ioniq 5. From the forums it seems to be the original 12V battery isn't very good, some last a long time and other fail in a year. We had a 2015 subaru wrx that had it's battery fail in just over 2 years so I think many automakers get cheap on batteries.
Clearly a fault of the battery management system failing to maintain the 12v charge from the traction battery. In an EV with a 12v secondary system, the total-loss 12v system powering accessories has to be powered and rcharged by the main battery, just as a 12v system in an ICE car has to be powered by and recharged from the alternator.
They've had this problem all through the original Ioniq line too. My Ioniq PHEV has left me stranded 8 times since getting it. Hyundai claims nothing is wrong. It's supposed to have an automated feature that charges the 12V battery if it detects a low state of charge, but that seems not to work at all.
I am wondering whether there is a similar problem with the Kona. We have a 2019 Kona Highlander and, after owning it for just over a year, we started to have problems with a flat 12v battery. The dealer diagnosed a problem with the Auto Link module (predecessor of Blue Link) and replaced that as well as the 12v battery. All OK for a while, but we have started having similar problems again. We suddenly find the little light in the middle of the Hyundai symbol on, and the light around the charge point a nasty yellow colour instead of green. My reading of the (unclear) manual suggests that this is to tell you that the 12v has got too low and the car is charging it from the main battery (so beware of HV under the bonnet!). It can't be the overuse of Auto Link as that has been U/S for more than 12 months despite trips to the dealer and complaints to Hyundai Australia (but not really missed however as we rarely used it). I suspect it may be an ongoing problem with the Auto Link system but that is very hard to prove as it is an intermittent issue and never happens at the dealer.
@@steveleatheam4755 When you say "normal", are you suggesting that the 12v is often low enough voltage to require a boost from the big one? Ours is only showing up at fairly irregular intervals, but the last time it happened the wall charging had stopped as well. This doesn't really sound normal to me.
@@derekwhite2979 I understand when Hyundai released an update a year or so ago, they increased the frequency in which the battery topups occur. Not sure if they increased the charging trigger voltage or set a regular timer…but my Kona regularly switches on the charger about the same time each day for about 20 minutes. I have never had a problem with a flat 12V battery but my model, being the facelifted version, didn’t come equipped with remote facilities.
My 2020 Tesla model Y VRLA 12V battery did not fail yet and I have Sentry active. It is made in USA. The battery was tested by a mechanic and will last another 2 years.
Will installing a "kill" switch to disconnect your battery be possible, a kill switch is a positive way to disable a battery. I had a European car (ICE) with an expensive battery so the two could communicate with each other and according to the manual it was meant to prevent a flat battery, well guess what, the battery died regardless so I had to kill the battery every time as it was the only sure way I would be able to start the car.
Technically Jeff recommended the OHMMU LFP 12V battery - I've just swapped my 12V battery for this one in my Kia EV6 - Costs about $450, but well worth it for peace of mind - I had experienced 2 12V failures within a month with the stock battery
Thanks for that story, Sam I've been a Happy Hyundai owner since 2001, and I've been considering getting an ionic 5, but I keep hearing stories of Hyundai pissing on customers and it's good to hear specific problems with a vehicle you might purchase in the future!
@@rogergeyer9851 I am "whining" because Sam didn't do his homework and is trying to place the blame on Hyundai and didn't bother to discuss the actual details of what is going on. Context is important. I am whining because we are ignoring a much broader problem across a large number of vehicles not just EV's because of this poor technical implementation. I am whining because Tesla always seems to get a pass when they also are experiencing phantom/vampire battery drain of quite significant levels. I want the focus to turn to the broader discussion. Hyundai actually stated what the problem is and are going to attempt to limit it, but is is a poor bandaid. It is time for real solutions, and give uses the ability to just turn it off.
I have a 23 Hi5 and have not had the dead battery problem. However, I have had a problem some call Zombie Mode. When I try to shift out of park I can not get it to go into D or R. The car is thus immobile. I had it happen in a carwash after I paid for my wash at the entry gate. I had to open the door because I couldn't reach the card slot so the car shifted into Park. I couldn't get it out of Park. After turning it on and off a couple of times and trying several times to get it to shift it worked. Took about 5 minutes. I put my foot on the brake each time I restarted it. It has happened four more times randomly. Each time I am able to get it to shift after doing various things. The dealer won't help me if I can't make it happen in their presence. Hyundai said they can't help me without a dealer experiencing it. They recommend taking it in to the dealer and leaving it there so they can try to duplicate the issue. No loaner offered. It is usually a couple of months between each experience so I can't imagine it is going to happen when the mechanic at the dealer is checking it once or so times a day. So, it looks like I am on my own. I think it is a low battery problem but am only guessing. I have purchased battery tester and a jump start battery. Hopefully, if it happens again I can just jump start and the problem will be over for the time being. Do any of you have any suggestions for what I can do?
The claim of users making thousands of Bluelink (and in the Kia world Uvo/Connect) calls is a none sense. The API is rate limited to much less calls than “thousands”. I’ve triggered the limit before and it must be in the low hundreds not “thousands”. I use the unofficial home assistant integration with settings to ensure it doesn’t call too much and still had to replace my battery on my Niro. Many owners of the Niro did not use Home Assistant and still had the problem. The issue is software, regardless of how many times a customer wants a to check the status of their car, there’s a massive battery under the car which can and should keep the 12v battery healthy, no excuses.
It's funny because I have experienced this problem multiple times in a Mitsubishi, and Ford killed my battery and replaced it during a software update. I don't understand why they can't program the car to turn off all accessories, and deny data requests when the 12v battery is at a low SOC, or even better automatically turn on the DCDC when the 12v system is at a low SOC. It shouldn't really be that hard. That and don't most EV's use an AGM battery for the low voltage system? Both Ford and Mitsubishi do. They are much better at recovering from deep cycle use.
I have an Ioniq 5 for 2.5 years, It’s a First gen car with 23000 km I’m based in Sydney. Just had the ICU update last week completed by Hyundai and for the first time and I now have a flat battery. No idea why, car has been fine ever since until today…
I've got a 2019 Ioniq that's failed twice now. We don't use Blue-link, we didn't renew the subscription. How do I find the ICCU fuse and can I test it? I've ordered a separate blue tooth battery monitor that hopefully will give me some insight. Love the car, hate being stranded. Keep posting, I hope the Missus recovers quickly.
Greetings from the UK. My electricity supplier offers some very clever tariffs to charge my EV by giving some very low rates when they have a surplus, but this does rely on polling your car, they have recently stopped supporting Kia for the battery issue, but I believe there is a software fix from Kia, and they will soon resume the tariff for Kia. I have an EV6 for 16 months now, and never had the problem.
If the whole vehicle was restricted to ~16 polling requests per day then Octopus Energy would have difficulty interfacing with the vehicle at all. They would have to leave enough polling requests for the vehicle owner to use the app. I use this with Tesla and Octopus appear to have the functionality to get a notification when the vehicle is plugged in because that usually triggers an immediate response in the octopus app. Other than to actually start charging their app never appears to wake the vehicle. Maybe the Kia API doesn't have this notification functionality leaving smart apps like octopus to have to poll the car periodically to discover if it's plugged in? I would imagine they could get away with polling it only in the evening every hour for a few hours as their use case is to set an overnight charge plan that they only calculate after 1700 anyway.
I had to have the AA out to my Ionic as it had died and he said I needed to keep the car turned on for anything such as washing or hoovering it out...If your sat in it waiting for the wife to do some shopping leave it switched on.If you switch it off and the doors etc are open the 12v will drain. I noticed a blue light on the dash flashing as well when the car was switched off and locked and apparently the car does this to top the 12v up. This lasts about 20 mins but since I have been following the AA guys advice I haven't had any probs...fingers crossed!🤞
The 12v battery in an EV may be charged through several different charging modes - in drive; parked with no drive; utility (or camping mode); plugged in with traction battery charging and plugged in with traction battery finished charging. Each of these charging modes has specific individual characteristics and these differ substantially from the 12v battery charging profile characteristics in ICE vehicles that are charged through an alternator. Unfortunately 12v EV batteries have been downsized without adequate provision for high 12v electrical current surges and unanticipated loads when the vehicle is not in use.
Looks like the same sort of thing isnow happening to Skoda Enyaqs. Message on app says "Unavailable due to battery protection limit" which has started to appear lately. The solution is to charge or drive the car even briefly.
My Tesla is almost 4 years old and it's lead acid battery is still fine. Tesla made a software change that addressed the problem. The lithium battery in the newer Tesla's is supposed to last the life of the car which the lead acid batteries in the older cars won't. Never the less the lead acid batteries should last about as long as they do in gas cars.
My Ioniq electric 28kwh 2018 model 12v battery failed on the coldest day of 2022, the battery had 7v output. I took it inside put it on charge and aimed a fan heater at it. after 20 minutes it was over 12v and the car was able to start. I went down to Halfords and bought a new one. Its not unusual for a lead acid battery to fail after 4 years.
I have a 2 year old ioniq 5, and had this happen to me for the first time this week. We’d been away visiting relatives, and after driving home the main traction battery was at ~10%. Left it on the drive, not plugged in as the wife’s car was charging ready for her to go to work in the morning. I tried to the i5 over on Wednesday, and nothing. Ended up having to wait for her to come home that night to jump it off her battery, so I could move it over. I very much doubt excessive bluelink usage was to blame, as I rarely if ever use it. Maybe every now and then to turn the car in to defrost during winter time - but that’s it. Should I be getting Hyundai involved for a replacement 12v battery?
My EV6 failed after 15 months would not start 12v battery failure, breakdown assistance jumped it off booster pack. Failed another dozen times even after being in dealership and I was leaving my car on drive with 12v battery charger on. Finally the 12 v battery was changed not good enough on £50000 car. (Still carry jump leads in car as confidence has now gone)
Our EV6 had the battery replaced about two months after we took ownership It has gone for nearly a year with no problem It now is currently at dealership being diagnosed ( 3 nights so far) Same problem going flat at least six times in last week Told we should not leave boot up for long periods or lock the doors as soon as we get out….. Huh as if it’s our fault 😢😢😢
After 1 year, my Ioniq 5 works perfectly. I don't make more than 2 bluelink requests per day. I use it to defrost the winshield before work in the morning and to cool my car's cabin after work before I return to it in the sunny parking lot without any issues.
Peter Inns: They need to make their cars with QUALITY if they expect to get a long term decent sized set of reliable buyers. PERIOD. If they can't raise the prices or learn how to do things cheap enough to be competitive -- too bad. Screwing the customer with bad designs and not fixing the problem is NOT the way to obtain or keep customers, over time. The US "little three" showed this clearly in the 80's and 90's as they lost a LOT of their customers to outfits like Toyota and Honda. It's not like this concept is new news.
I don't get it.. my EVs 12v has lasted over 5 years with no issue yet. Never quite understood why so many have had an issue over the years and somehow it skipped me. You'd think.. if it's the battery chemistry, it'd happen to all of us.. so why the hell has mine lasted over 5 years and still seems to be going strong as ever. It's 'always connected'.. I've left it for weeks while I'm away on vacation.. never an issue. Course.. now it'll fail tomorrow since I said that lol
I've even had my first ev 8 years, no 12 v issue at all. (Nissan leaf). Also nom issue with a konae64, ioniq (2017 model 28 kwh) or my ioniq 5 ...my current car...until now. But with my previous diesel car (nissan xtrail) I've had a dead 12V battery suddenly (after maybe 7 years). A diesel needs a lot of electricity to start up, an EV not.
The problem with huyndai is going on for years and is well documented and understood. As you stated the issue is not the battery chemistry but with the software that manages it. The discharge is due to the car not shutting down during parking like if you don't open the door if you park.
I have a 3 year old Kona - I'm on third battery 12V battery ( By the way Volts as a Unit in capital "V") the problem with lead acid battery in EV's is they don't have the shock loading that a cold start ICE would have, now you would think that this would mean it lasts forever, but actually NO that cold start causes break away of the naturally occurring crystals that crow from plate to plate ultimately short the plates. So that's why these type of battery is wrong choice. LFP could be better, but as you rightly say maybe not for colder countries or region's . Could be an old fashioned AGM would prove a better choice. Hyundai have great forums on social media and everyday this issue comes up on one or more of them. They need to do something and stop ignoring the issue.
Teslas previous problem was mostly the result of shortened life after a year or so, not just in a new car or due to leaving things plugged in while parked. Teslas also maintain the 12v even when parked and shut off. Teslas problem is clearly nothing like that of Hyundai/Kia. Our model 3 had no issue and I went to an aftermarket lion 12v after 2 years even though no problem existed or occurred just as a proactive measure.
Sam always talk about an explosion in Norway at a hydrogen filling station lying that 9 people were killed. They weren't- "Hydrogen gas leaked from a tank at the station near Oslo in June 2019 and exploded, injuring three people when a pressure wave triggered airbags in their cars nearby, according to Nel and police reports." - www.reuters.com/article/us-nel-blast-idUSKBN2AG2N4 Most hydrogen refuelling stations now also make the hydrogen at the filling station itself which is an advantage over ICE where it has to be delivered and very expensive and highly polluting from vast amounts of mining for Tesla batteries at their supercharger stations.
My mom's Model 3 RWD is low milage and needed to have the 12v battery replaced. And, more recently, they scheduled a service van to come out and replace the 12v battery again in the past 6 months. Again, her car is a couple of years old and has less than 5k in miles so far.
Our 2020 Kona EV was, I believe the first Hyundai to exhibit this problem. In typical Hyundai fashion they ignored the issue and continued releasing multiple new models again with the same fault. Way to go Hyundai!!!! EVERY major drivetrain component on the Kona EV had to be replaced in the first 25K kms. Main battery, traction motor, reduction gearbox, 12V Aux battery.... We now drive a Tesla
This happened to me yesterday. I plugged in the charger the night before to do a 90% charge (usually do 80%). The car was unlocked. In the morning it was completely dead. I've had the car for about 6 weeks. Never happened before.
I dont understand why ev and hybrid need a 12v battery to run the auxiliary system while the propulsion battery is more than adequate of doing the job.
hi, after owning the Hyundai Ionic 5 car for 3 years now, I had the first 12v battery issue today. The car was on charge and had completed for 80% as usual. Today when I wanted to start\power on the car using the fob it did not work. It was dead. Had to call AA for help. He came and jump started the car using his battery kit. He said the 12v battery was drained. Then he told to drive the car for an hour so that the 12v battery is charged. It looks ok now. The car main battery was at 80% though. Such an expensive car but not sure why Hyundai chose to put cheap quality 12v lead battery. Why cant they put a permanent fix to it. Very disappointed and nervous if it happens again.
Wow we were considering the Ioniq 5 but this has put me off. Build quality issues with Tesla pointed me towards the Hyundai……sounds like I better consider other choices now.
Been going on since the first generation Leaf. Nothing new here sadly. Not many want to talk about the Tesla's sucking the battery from the traction battery. Look up phantom drain/vampire drain. These things are WASTING lots of energy while doing absolutely nothing. They need to give us the option to turn off all remote access to the vehicles when parked or whenever we choose to turn it off. If these cars aren't constantly being probed and data collected this problem goes away. But few want to talk about that, and of course the mothership wants your data.
@@Longsnowsm: AGREED that at least MINIMIZING vampire drain should VERY MUCH be a customer OPTION. Like if you're traveling and leaving the car at an airport, for example. With a large BEV battery, leaving it in "minimize vampire drain" mode should mean that it can sit parked for MONTHS (starting with a significant charge level), and not be drained to anywhere close to where the car won't start. If they can't do simple things like that, they're not even trying, and that's another reason I'll just wait. I drive very little anyway. Wrestling with car problems at retirement age isn't on my agenda. It was bad enough when I was young and poor, so had little choice.
@Tron Jockey: To me, to have to baby sit cars like that unless they're very old is SO 1960's. I want my cars to be RELIABLE and DURABLE, as long as I properly take care of them and they're under, say, a dozen years old (I don't put many miles on cars). If a car maker can't provide that, I'll move on to a better one.
@@rogergeyer9851 I am seeing this with ICE and EV's now. It is a mess. It is time for solutions and giving customers options to turn it off and to even select what types of events etc that will will accept. Lots of room for improvement needed here. It is a full blown mess.
@blaumax1910 I fixed mine by keeping it on a battery tender and then eventually pulled the modem out of the car and that fixed it for good. It was a programming issue on when to fire that charge for the 12v. Since my car wasn't driven that often I was chewing up 12v batteries until I finally had my fill of it. Battery tender was fine, but pulling the modem was the best solution for me since the Leaf is a local commuter car I didn't use navigation or any of that anyway. This is a broader problem that is affecting lots of vehicles that are now "online" and people and companies are accessing the vehicles remotely. Doesn't just affect EV's anymore either. Anyone who doesn't drive a great deal are probably finding themselves replacing 12v batteries on some regular interval. I knew that going into buying a new truck last year that has the telematics, full remote access etc. I pulled the telematics box out of the truck in pretty short order. Problem solved. If they would just give the vehicle owners the option to just turn it off problem would be solved.
Don't forget the Kona! My 2022 12 v battery dies unexpectedly just like the ioniq 5. I have to carry a portable booster pack in the glove compartment just to have any confidence I will be able to get home. This is awful!!
Are they saying that the DC to DC charger can't keep up with the usage? How many amps can it charge. It sounds like it needs a higher amp charger in the battery saving mode and reprogram the blue link to reduce the load.
With such a massive energy source in the traction battery a metre away from the 12v DC battery, it should never become too low. The fault is in the car's system failing to energise the DC to DC converter properly. It shouldn't matter how often a small 12v discharge takes place as long as it is replaced instantly from the traction battery. It seems simple really. Just needs a system that detects less than 12v and switches on a top-up. Of course, they should also address the problem of the phantom drain at the same time but allowing the car to die due to a tiny lead acid battery having a low charge is plain stupid.
This has been a problem in hybrids as well since 2013. I jump my hybrid once a month since new. This is the worst design given the HV battery could be charging the 12vt anytime it gets low. It has to do with the low voltage shut down too
@@b4804514 Hyundai's hybrids have a button for reset of aux battery (at least in Europe) when after pressing it, the car wakes up and charges the aux battery. Hyundai makes hyberids and EV's from 2016 (in europe)
Does anyone know whether these are deep cycle batteries?
@@lb5444 - The 12v DC batteries in almost all EVs are simple lead/Acid car batteries designed to crank a combustion engine. A much better choice would have been deep cycle batteries as used for domestic power in RV's and boats. They at least can withstand a low charge. But the focus should be on both ensuring that the traction battery in an EV keeps the 12v DC charged and also eliminates the mysterious phantom drains that cause this issue in the first place. Then, with a deep cycle battery or a Lithium unit installed this ongoing problem may be solved. The measure to limit 3rd party apps accessing the car to 20 per day is like putting a sticking plaster on a broken leg.
The problem is when the car has the high voltage battery connected to charge the 12v battery there are losses in running those systems, so car makers will try and minimise times when the car is sitting idle charging the 12volt. This results in the 12v battery being deep cycled more often which reduces its life.
This problem is made much worse by cars with higher parasitic drain that could cause the battery to be discharged and charged several times a day (worst case). This takes the useful life of the battery down to 2 years.
An ICE car would never be sold with such high parasitic drain because it's unable to start it's engine to charge the battery. Whereas EV makers can get away with selling cars that discharge the 12v very quickly as the problem only comes to light after 2 or 3 years.
If the battery was being charged more frequently to prevent deep cycling the 12v battery owners would be complaining about excessive range loss while the vehicle is parked.
As with ICE cars if the EV is driven frequently on longer drives and charged frequently you are less likely to have issues because the 12v battery will spend more time in its fully charged state which is excellent for battery life. And will have less opportunity to become deeply discharged. If the car often sits idle for days at a time or is driven a few miles a day and not plugged in you are asking for trouble.
It's down to poor software - e.g. my Kona will discharge the 12v battery if you leave the boot or other door open for a few hours. a 12V booster pack is an essential item to carry in any EV
That does sound more likely than the explanation in the video (that they should have used a lithium battery). In a normal car you would blame the alternator, in an EV it makes sense to blame its equivalent system.
You cannot charge litium batteries when temp is below 0C, although you can discharge it. AGM is the way to go if the outside temp can drop lower.
same with my kia niro
They also don't monitor the state of the 12v battery or display it where you can see it.
The bluelink software is often blamed for draining the 12v, it seems in many cases it keeps trying to "phone home" and drains the battery that way.
Maybe this is why my Chevrolet Volt left me stranded five times and had 13 check engine lights. 36k of total frustration. I was out of free tows. All three leafs batteries failed and recently had a 500e fail on test drive. Still driving my 13 smart fortwo. I only slow 110 charge it. 45k and going strong. Put tires and a lawn tractor 12 volt battery in it recently.
@Joe-lb8qn. "Nailed ET"
Hi from Texas.
1. I call this a “12volt starter battery problem.” Just to differentiate it from the big drive battery. 2. My ioniq 5 is fine after 6000 miles. My plug in hybrid ford escape had its 12v starter batter die and the car go black.
Solution: I carry a small jump starter battery in both cars in the frunk.
PS You showed one in your video but did not mention it.
Good luck to your wife.
Hi Sam I watched an interesting podcast where they did an in depth look into how the ionic 5 charges it’s 12v battery and if I understood it correctly the problem seems to occur mostly when you run your main battery pack below 10% This seems to inhibit the system from allocating any charge to the 12v battery during that charging cycle and it’s not until the next charging cycle that the 12v battery will be included in the charging programme. Of course if you again run below 10% it won’t recharge it. I could be wrong but that is what I thought they said, anyway I’ve just ordered an ionic 5 over the new Peugeot 3008 based purely on how it drove but now I’m worried that I may have made the wrong choice 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks Sam. My Kia EV6 GT line is at the dealers now with this problem. It was new in May 22. First time I have had this problem. I don't think Kia / Hyundai are addressing this issue in the manner they should be!
My dad's car's 12v has had to be jumped 6 times in the past 2 weeks. The issue started right after we took it to the dealer for the preconditioning update and the parking brake recall. Today it was so bad the keyfob couldn't unlock the doors so I could get under the hood, I had to use the physical key. Spoke to several dealers who either hang up on us or said they didn't have any appointment slots. One gave us an appointment but they're an hour away and the appointment is for JULY
People need to see this stuff before they waste hard-earned money to be a Guinea pig.
The root of the 12v battery issue is the DC to DC converters are off the shelf units that are designed for 12v Lead Acid batteries. When they recharge the 12v battery is hardcoded and the 12v battery chemistry is hard coded. The Nissan Leaf has had this issue for a decade and Leaf owners could easily get the 12v battery in an odd state if left their cars are left sitting overnight unplugged. These DC to DC converters are basically the same ones used in their hybrid vehicles and not specifically designed for EVs.
And you're right, these are not cheap vehicles. If they had dedicated more time to designing a system with a small LFP battery and a controller that could recharge it from the main pack, this issue would never have occurred. The EGMP platform could use improvement and the 'starter' battery should be one of the first they address.
Replace with an AGM battery they’re designed to cope with constant small discharge and recharge.
That’s why they use them in those stupid stop/start fuel saving cars.
My BMW i3 has a small AGM and its been just fine for 4 years. Also BMW suggest you leave the car connected to AC if leaving it for a long time. However opening the drivers door causes the car to check the 12v and charge it if needed. This also happens if the car is connected to AC. BMW also suggest changing the battery every 5 years. It costs about $100
So replacing battery is the solution ? Not the iccu with the fuse?
A 12v nominal lithium ion battery is not a straight swap for a12v nominal lead acid battery as the charging voltages are different, the lead acid battery requiring a minimum of13.5 v while the lithium battery requires a minimum of14.6v but the DC-DC converters on most EVs only gives out a maximum of 15.6V maximum so a lithium battery may not get sufficient charge, which is why Tesla owners initially had problems immediately after Tesla switched to Lithium ion anccesory batteries.
Eclectic: But Tesla fixed it. That's the important thing. Problems happen with complex things. But for cars, the makers need to competently FIX the problems or lose the business of lots of their customers. Or deservedly lose the business / loyalty of many customers.
Hopefully Tesla never fails to keep this in mind re any problem that happens to a significant number of customers.
@@rogergeyer9851 Yes Tela fixed it but my point is that it's not a straight swop.
A better and cheaper fix is to replace the 12V batteries with a GMP deep cycle type…the charging voltage being somewhat higher is more comparable with the existing DC converter and is far cheaper the a LiFe 12V battery
My 2019 Kona had the High Voltage battery replaced through a recall. No charge for me but last year I had a dead 12V battery and that cost me over $400. It was not under warranty. They said it is a consumable , like tires and windshield wipers. It should not fail after only 3 years. I was able to start the car by Jump starting it with another car and avoid an expensive tow. Read your manual for that. Overall I am very happy with the car and will not sell it. All cars have problems, this is kind of minor.
the 12v battery in my 2020 kona died after 26 months,.. if the battery needs to be replaced every 2 to 3 years,.its a fail.. i to am (sort of) happy with the car but its a fail and should at least be changed under warranty.
bossman61: It depends on how much it happens. If it happens once and I can jump it, then sure, no big deal. This happens with ICE cars and old batteries all the time.
If it happens like half a dozen times (per the narrative), and is a big headache and expensive each time AND the car maker doesn't FIX the damn thing -- THAT'S a big deal. Especially when they blame the owner.
I've had good and bad cars (and car makers). I'm not putting up with bad car makers any more.
Had similar issue with 12v.
Left dome lights on. Figured out after two jump starts.
So smart and yet so.. Unsmart!!
Had this happen in my electric Fiat, 2015.
@@rogergeyer9851 yes , you are right. I assume that it's a fluke and it won't happen again in such a short time.
Yup, just started for my 2022 ioniq5 in the United States. We have had to jump our car several times in the past two weeks. Our vehicle is 2 years and 2 months old, with 40,000 miles ( we are the original owners ). We are looking to replace the battery with an AGM deep cycle because we live in Eastern Idaho and it winter temps can reach -25F. Thank you for the information in this video, I sure hope Hyundai comes around.
We haven't installed any dongles or third party apps, didn't even know that was a thing let alone unauthorized third-party apps.
We have a Kia Soul EV which has a very similar electrical system. We have had the 12v battery fail 3 times. The battery was changed after the second failure and new software added after the third failure. I had fitted a voltage monitor after the first failure. This provides in an app a graphical display of voltage over time. On the third failure in the last 12 hours before the failure was discovered the battery voltage was alternating between 7.5v and 19v. To achieve this the source of the problem has to be the DC-DC converter. Whether the new software has solved this time will tell but I have my doubts. Certainly 19v is not a symptom of phantom drain.
the ID4 with 3.1 software has an energy management option that is pretty good at ensuring the 12V battery is always charged, even if you drain this battery intentionally with an always powered on device.
The ID4 had this same issue about 12 months ago and it was fixed with the firmware update. I have a Tesla M3 in Melbourne with the lead acid battery and have had no issues although Tesla did have some similar issues several years ago. Again a firmware update fixed this. Tesla's track the 12v battery and warn long before it fails of an intending issue. 12v LFP batteries are perhaps 2 times the cost of a equivalent lead acid battery model.
There was the same problem with the Previous Ioniq. The problem is that when the battery goes, it dials the SOS. I had this happen to me. Next day, dead 12v battery!! It wasn't something that I did, I can tell you that!!
Yep I had that on the Kona, exactly the same.
My Kona EV - new September 2022 - battery has failed twice - March 2023 and also June 2023. Hyundai dealership checked it - said battery was fine - they could find no fault - implied my car management was cause of fault - advised that main EV battery should not fall below 50% as this will maintain the 12v battery. I have bought myself a battery power starter pack to keep in the car to jump start it if it fails again
The 12V battery drain is almost certainty a vehicle design issue.
1st, there should be a battery rundown protection circuit on this 12V battery that almost certainly was not put in, probably to save maybe $2 in cost at the most. This would protect against all types of possible "owner" mistakes, such as leaving a light on inside the vehicle. Far behind the above as a root cause or contributing factor would be the design lacking the ability to charge the 12V battery directly from the main battery, by using a step-down converter circuit, particularly when the vehicle is parked or when charging. This would eliminate the rundown of the 12V battery due to its operation of its communications when parked. Again, this poor design choice would have been made by Hyundai, and not an "owner" or user problem.
My EV6 is currently in the shop with 12v battery issues. I have zero third party apps and rarely use the Kia Access app. I reported increased 12v charging instances to the dealer two weeks before I had a failure. I followed the instructions on the Kia Access app and jumped off the vehicle. Two weeks later, I had the low 12v warning after turning the EV6 on. Unfortunately, I could not put the car in PARK and was unable to TURN IT OFF!! I found a fix on the web and got it turned off, finally. Had to jump start the car again the next day. They say they have no fix for the issue. Two days of "testing" and no loaner for me. This should never happen with when there is voltage in the traction pack.
There was the same issue in the older Ioniq (28kwh 2019 model). My Ioniq had a 12v battery fail at 6 months old, it took a while, but it was replaced under warranty. The battery has been fine since. The real kicker was at the replacement battery cost $1000au I read on some paperwork that I was not supposed to see. I now carry a 12v lithium ion battery jump starter and a 12v battery monitor that fits in one of the old 12v ports in the dash.
Solution ( bunji cord a 12 V computer battery $40 next to the Huynday $500 battery ). It has been working for the last 3 years.
VW had a limit of about 20 Carnet requests per time that my e golf was parked, to get out ahead of this kind of issue.
Hyundai has fixed this problem by updating their battery management software. I have an ioniq 5 2023 and have not experienced this problem. There was third party software that called for the bluelink info from the car too may times per day. Hyundai was correct in limiting those bluelink calls. There is a dash board lamp that illuminates when the battery is being charged so you know that the car is keeping the 12 volt battery charged. This problem is no longer an issue.
If they fixed the problem, why us there yet another recall for the ICCU
ive been ok in 4 years with 2 Konas but on the Facebook group there are many with this problem
Lithium 12v batteries aren’t 10x at least in the US. At worst it’s 4x
depends how cheap you get the Lead-acid battery
@@lukasz2804 I’ve always paid around 100$ when I had a gas car
I've never had a 12v battery issue. But I know that when the traction battery is below 20% and you do not charge the car..you can drain the cars 12 volt battery. When you have more than 20% in the traction battery the 12 volt battery wil be kept charged as I'm told.
(I have a project45 ioniq 5. First generation.)
But once I could not get my ioniq 5 in drive mode (zomby status it's called on internet). Could be triggered by restarting the car when it was still busy with the previous shutdown .
Advise on internet found is: Shut down and close the car, start the preheating with your phone (bluelink) And than go back to the and restart.
This did work....
I have owned my Hi5 since September 2021 and last summer we encountered 12v death several times.
Spoke with dealer here in Sweden and they had to struggle with Hyundai on getting it on warranty replacement.
The blamed me for using the app to much,
having my key to close to the car. Keeping the car unlocked over night.
Not unplugging the car asap it was finished charging.
Keeping the trunk open to long while onloading.
I have received several updates on bms , waiting for the ICCU update.
Last week I got a 12v death out of nowhere and the charge didn't complete. 12v went from 12v to below 5v in 2 hours.
And was unsaveable and Hyundai seems to blame me and no warranty.
When I speak with Hyundai support they haven't heard anyone else with the similar problems 😂
In about 2009/2010 Jaguar Land Rover had this same issue of self flattening batteries. Cure was a BMS update and a change from lead accident to Absorbed Glass Mat batteries and to make the electronics enter a sleep mode.
Ok. But an AGM battery does not have the same charging parameters as a regular lead-acid battery. Did you change the charging parameters for the AGM after the swap? If so, where does one do that on the car?
I had lots of problems from new with 12v battery on VW EGolf, really annoying. The 12v battery does not top itself up whilst charging the main pack. It has to be charged by driving? Does it have a alternator somewhere? ☹
I got 2 years and 3 days out of my 12V battery (EV6 AWD). Been through all the "3rd party apps" (don't have any), "password changes" (what rubbish), iccu recall, and two months arguing with dealer the Kia. 'We can't help you as our checks tell us there is no fault with your vehicle" - "Even if your battery had failed within 6 months of purchase, if there was no fault with the car, it wouldn't be Kia's fault but yours". My first failure was 2 days after 2 year service, second failure 2 days after iccu recall "fix". Every failure (4 more) happened while the car is waiting to overnight (cheap tariff) charge. I will now at my cost change to an AMG battery which was the type Kia did all their development testing with. No more Kia's for me though.
This is NOT specific to the Ioniq 5 or 6 ! I have had a Hyundai Ioniq (38kwh) for 3 years, and this is my 3rd 12V battery... So far, I have been able to argue and have replaced free of charge, but I am afraid next one will be on me ! And I am sure there will be a next time... I have bought a "booster", and have been able to get started each time, but it is a pain (pardon my french !) ! They never admitted to any fault from the car...
I think Rivian has the same problem, 12v batteries dying, particularly in the cold weather and it bricks the car when it happens.
My volt did the same
@@teddystoner8288 The volt was designed not to charge the 12v when parked. It only maintains the 12v when plugged in to charge. GM has no clue how to make an EV. The parts GM handles are done wrong. The car is super sensitive to the 12v, it can decide that it won't flip the relay to engage the main battery when the 12v is slightly low. You end up having to use a jumper pack to slightly boost the 12v so the main battery will engage and then charge the 12v by having the car on.
Gred Kroh: With BEV's normally having LARGE batteries with LOTS of power in reserve, to me it's ridiculous that the software doesn't at least check on the status and TRY to charge the 12V battery from the bigger battery (trickle charge or something), and notify the owner what they're doing.
Waiting 15 or 30 minutes for this would be no big deal. Needing to arrange for another battery or a tow, etc. -- that's a much bigger deal. Especially if you're in a place where that's not convenient to obtain quickly, is very expensive, etc.
@@teddystoner8288: Leave it to GM to have every potential problem in one form or another. Sounds like another issue BEV makers need to sort out, and some PHEV makers as well.
@@_PatrickO: With software like that (where it won't even TRY), no wonder GM is so hapless. I absolutely GET that if it tries and can't top up the 12V for a variety of potential issues, THEN it gives up and informs the customer.
And that implies that before the car shuts down, it should charge the traction battery to a certain level with the generator -- and if the customer doesn't like that (because, say, it might need to run the engine to do that), then it should be a customer CHOICE re a selectable setting. For me -- I wan't my car to be durable and RELIABLE, or I'll choose a different car (and/or maker).
Bad news, I was about to buy a Ioniq5, from which I will now refrain!
The MGZSEV mk2 monitors the 12v battery even when off and locked, if it gets low the DC DC converter kicks in automatically and charges it from the main traction battery if its within certain parameters. The Mk1 ZSEV didnt do this. This seems to work quite well.
Dead 12V on 3/13 on a Kia EV6 with ~12k miles on it. 1st time this happened. Battery was 5.5V
I come from Austria and my 12V battery has already failed 3 times. The first time was my own fault, there were really too many bluelink queries from my smart home, the other two times it was a mistake you can make when charging. In my case, when charging (AC) is finished and the charging plug is not disconnected, the 12V battery discharges deeply within two days. The vehicle apparently does not recognize that the charging is finished and some control unit constantly draws current until the 12V battery is empty. My ICCU has been replaced or at least the firmware has been updated. In Germany there is a recall campaign concerning the Obboard-Charger, this seems to be a different problem, so far nothing has arrived here in Austria.
Sam here in the UK their have been a lot of 12 volt batteries replaced I had mine replaced after 2 years on my Kona Electric 2018 only
covered for 12 months my main battery was replaced at 28000 miles this was a recall worldwide because some of the Kona's were catching fire several in Korea and I believe one Canada keep up the good work if you get time check out the Macmaster who is slagging of Electric Vehicles in my view he is doing harm by his comments best wishes to you and your family.
My 2022 awd limited, is having all the issues in your video.
I’ll let you know the dealer says.
Thanks for your help
Same here. What was the fix?
There is some things they can do to increase the 12V battery lifespan...
* Charge the 12V battery while charging the main battery (not all cars do this)
* Turn periodically on and off 12V charger in the car. (Not all cars do this)
I agree with you about the manufacturers blaming owners for the issues with their car. This is the problem with many companies and engineers today. No one wants to take accountability for their products.
I am fine with the lead acid 12v battery if they use something that is easy to obtain.
Lead acid batteries can handle extremes or abuse better than some chemistries, but the charging profile for them has to be correct.
I owned a first Gen leaf. More than once, I had to disconnect, wait, and reconnect the 12v battery to reset and fix minor hiccups with it.
I would disconnect it to reset the car wait and reconnect it and the car would basically fix itself and I was not stranded.
I got replacement batteries from Walmart because they had a good warranty on a cheap battery.
I did not care if the 12v battery failed because I could go to any Walmart and get it replaced for free or at a reduced prorated price.
I also used a Solar battery maintainer plugged into the car in Winter to help keep the battery happy.
Extreme cold affects them more than heat.
Many battery chemistries, including Lithium, need to be kept from super low Temps or freezing.
Lead Acid does better in the North where I live. I guess people in the South have a bigger problem with batteries. Boiling dry. Maybe Lithium would work better there.
Time will sort these things out. If companies don't stand behind their products , they will go out of business quick.
Just replaced 12v battery in my Kia ev6. No 3rd party apps. They really need to fix this problem.
Hyundai is notorious for not taking ownership of problems with their vehicles. This is the main reason why I will never buy a Hyundai. It’s really a shame because they make great cars. ❤❤❤
I was amused to recently read that the Hyundai or Kia CEO was blaming Tesla for affecting their customers used car prices….. talk about Teflon shoulders…
I have an Ioniq 5, 2022 SEL model bought on 30 Jan 22. Car died on the highway Heard a loud pop from above the rear axle. I made it home and found the 12 volt was down to 47 SOC. Car was towed to Hyundai. Local dealer said they did not feel comfortable doing a diagnosis but could fix it. Hyundai field tech, over the phone, said the ICCU and high voltage fuse had to be replaced. He said there are no ICCUs in the US. If I do not go by the dealer I never hear from them. I am one week away from the lemon law.
Same issue with 12v failure on my ioniq5. Was fixed under warranty but the car was in the shop for 3 weeks and a new BMS part was shipped from Korea for the fix. Dealer advised that I keep the main battery charged above 25% as the BMS will only top up the 12v from the main battery when above that charge level.
At least your dealership replaced the 12v. I had to pay out of pocket. Any lawyers here?
No problem Viking, thanks for always putting out EV videos 💪🏼
Another little hint, in the video you can see that you use a 12V jump starter to give yourself a "jump start". You have connected it to the + pole and the - pole of the battery, but this can damage the battery sensor, which has already happened to me once. It would be correct to connect the + terminal to the battery first and then the - terminal to an earth point on the body, NOT to the battery directly! I know the manual says otherwise, but that's wrong, please use only one point on the body. and sorry for my possibly bad English, my native language is German.
Hello. I got the same problem today. Can't do anything. Tried charging the 12v battery today and it seems to help. Now I can start it 😀. But must clear at the workshop.
And tanks for the video👍😊
This is the other problem. Using non auto, or regular fuses. Tesla uses ic self resetting protection that does not require owner intervention. This removes the cost, weight and reliability issues of adding fuseblocks, requireing extra connections, failure points, taking up extra space in vehicle taking away from storage etc. It is just another reason why all other evs and oems are garbage and in so many ways.
Erm, this is a common issue with Hyundai Kona and has been for a while. Not seen this on the Renault Zoe, or Peugeot...I think Hyundai need to charge the 12v better and improve the BMS.
I have the i6. Its 2 weeks old. It was driving just fine, had no problems, drove the car all day. Went to go out with my husband just to do errands and it's flagged up 'check electric vehicle system' summit like that. Trying to find any information as I've been told its something I've done, they keep asking what I did to it, I'm a wheelchair user and they expected me to drop the dead car back by magic or something. Hopefully on Monday they fix it. But bluelink isn't showing any issues. I hope they fix it soon coz having no car has been a pain in the butt. Can't have a hire car due to issues with my licence so no car till they fix it.
With Tesla moving to 48v to eliminate wiring i would expect the 48v system to be built either into the main battery or charge system?
I have a Huyandai Kona Electric 2022. I had 3-4 times first year when the battery died. I could only start with a external batterypack. It was drained. They said it was because how i was using my car. I mostly used it for shorter trips, and multiple everyday to drive to kids schools, practices, work and shops. It never managed to load the battery on the shorter drives. After a year with several issues they changed my battery. Since then i have had 0 issues. Still driving the same way. But something must have been wrong with the battery.
Mine died last week. Car was parked at body shop for few days as I got rear ended. The car died when I picked it up. Dealer diagonosed it as ICCU and ICCU fuse failure. Wait for parks is 5 weeks. Vancouver Canada. AWD Ultimate 2022 with 28,000kms 13 months old.
I've got mine connected to a smart home setup (due to the solar panels on the roof), and I pull data from the car about 10 times a day via API with no problems. However, I've encountered an issue where my Ioniq 5 died while plugged into a wallbox charger with 90% of the main battery remaining. I replaced the 12V battery and installed a monitor on the new one. I then noticed a significant drop in the 12V battery's state of charge (from 90% to 20%) in just 2 hours, while the vehicle was parked in front of my house unlocked. It was just unlocked, with nothing else running.
Also, it looks like there is no 12V charging when wallbox cable is plugged in (not even charging :D)...
40k miles on our 2022 AWD and not one dead or even low battery. I bought a small jumper but have only used it on other cars and never needed it for the Ioniq 5. From the forums it seems to be the original 12V battery isn't very good, some last a long time and other fail in a year. We had a 2015 subaru wrx that had it's battery fail in just over 2 years so I think many automakers get cheap on batteries.
Clearly a fault of the battery management system failing to maintain the 12v charge from the traction battery. In an EV with a 12v secondary system, the total-loss 12v system powering accessories has to be powered and rcharged by the main battery, just as a 12v system in an ICE car has to be powered by and recharged from the alternator.
They've had this problem all through the original Ioniq line too. My Ioniq PHEV has left me stranded 8 times since getting it. Hyundai claims nothing is wrong. It's supposed to have an automated feature that charges the 12V battery if it detects a low state of charge, but that seems not to work at all.
I am wondering whether there is a similar problem with the Kona.
We have a 2019 Kona Highlander and, after owning it for just over a year, we started to have problems with a flat 12v battery. The dealer diagnosed a problem with the Auto Link module (predecessor of Blue Link) and replaced that as well as the 12v battery.
All OK for a while, but we have started having similar problems again. We suddenly find the little light in the middle of the Hyundai symbol on, and the light around the charge point a nasty yellow colour instead of green. My reading of the (unclear) manual suggests that this is to tell you that the 12v has got too low and the car is charging it from the main battery (so beware of HV under the bonnet!).
It can't be the overuse of Auto Link as that has been U/S for more than 12 months despite trips to the dealer and complaints to Hyundai Australia (but not really missed however as we rarely used it). I suspect it may be an ongoing problem with the Auto Link system but that is very hard to prove as it is an intermittent issue and never happens at the dealer.
Normal, however if the yellow light is generally on almost constantly that’s a sign your 12V battery is failing again.
@@steveleatheam4755 When you say "normal", are you suggesting that the 12v is often low enough voltage to require a boost from the big one? Ours is only showing up at fairly irregular intervals, but the last time it happened the wall charging had stopped as well. This doesn't really sound normal to me.
However, I suppose it is logical that, if the big one is charging the small one, you won't be able to charge the big one.
@@derekwhite2979 I understand when Hyundai released an update a year or so ago, they increased the frequency in which the battery topups occur. Not sure if they increased the charging trigger voltage or set a regular timer…but my Kona regularly switches on the charger about the same time each day for about 20 minutes. I have never had a problem with a flat 12V battery but my model, being the facelifted version, didn’t come equipped with remote facilities.
My 2020 Tesla model Y VRLA 12V battery did not fail yet and I have Sentry active. It is made in USA. The battery was tested by a mechanic and will last another 2 years.
Will installing a "kill" switch to disconnect your battery be possible, a kill switch is a positive way to disable a battery. I had a European car (ICE) with an expensive battery so the two could communicate with each other and according to the manual it was meant to prevent a flat battery, well guess what, the battery died regardless so I had to kill the battery every time as it was the only sure way I would be able to start the car.
Technically Jeff recommended the OHMMU LFP 12V battery - I've just swapped my 12V battery for this one in my Kia EV6 - Costs about $450, but well worth it for peace of mind - I had experienced 2 12V failures within a month with the stock battery
Thanks for that story, Sam I've been a Happy Hyundai owner since 2001, and I've been considering getting an ionic 5, but I keep hearing stories of Hyundai pissing on customers and it's good to hear specific problems with a vehicle you might purchase in the future!
@@Longsnowsm: Whining because you like Hyundai doesn't make you credible. Real world problems should be reported on.
@@rogergeyer9851 I am "whining" because Sam didn't do his homework and is trying to place the blame on Hyundai and didn't bother to discuss the actual details of what is going on. Context is important. I am whining because we are ignoring a much broader problem across a large number of vehicles not just EV's because of this poor technical implementation. I am whining because Tesla always seems to get a pass when they also are experiencing phantom/vampire battery drain of quite significant levels. I want the focus to turn to the broader discussion. Hyundai actually stated what the problem is and are going to attempt to limit it, but is is a poor bandaid. It is time for real solutions, and give uses the ability to just turn it off.
I bought a KIA Soul EV three years ago come October, in that nearly three period I have had the 12v battery changed twice.
I have a 23 Hi5 and have not had the dead battery problem. However, I have had a problem some call Zombie Mode. When I try to shift out of park I can not get it to go into D or R. The car is thus immobile. I had it happen in a carwash after I paid for my wash at the entry gate. I had to open the door because I couldn't reach the card slot so the car shifted into Park. I couldn't get it out of Park. After turning it on and off a couple of times and trying several times to get it to shift it worked. Took about 5 minutes. I put my foot on the brake each time I restarted it. It has happened four more times randomly. Each time I am able to get it to shift after doing various things. The dealer won't help me if I can't make it happen in their presence. Hyundai said they can't help me without a dealer experiencing it. They recommend taking it in to the dealer and leaving it there so they can try to duplicate the issue. No loaner offered. It is usually a couple of months between each experience so I can't imagine it is going to happen when the mechanic at the dealer is checking it once or so times a day. So, it looks like I am on my own. I think it is a low battery problem but am only guessing. I have purchased battery tester and a jump start battery. Hopefully, if it happens again I can just jump start and the problem will be over for the time being. Do any of you have any suggestions for what I can do?
The claim of users making thousands of Bluelink (and in the Kia world Uvo/Connect) calls is a none sense. The API is rate limited to much less calls than “thousands”. I’ve triggered the limit before and it must be in the low hundreds not “thousands”. I use the unofficial home assistant integration with settings to ensure it doesn’t call too much and still had to replace my battery on my Niro. Many owners of the Niro did not use Home Assistant and still had the problem.
The issue is software, regardless of how many times a customer wants a to check the status of their car, there’s a massive battery under the car which can and should keep the 12v battery healthy, no excuses.
I just had the battery replaced in my Niro PHEV, the dealer charged me over $300. Will they give me a refund?
It's funny because I have experienced this problem multiple times in a Mitsubishi, and Ford killed my battery and replaced it during a software update. I don't understand why they can't program the car to turn off all accessories, and deny data requests when the 12v battery is at a low SOC, or even better automatically turn on the DCDC when the 12v system is at a low SOC. It shouldn't really be that hard. That and don't most EV's use an AGM battery for the low voltage system? Both Ford and Mitsubishi do. They are much better at recovering from deep cycle use.
I have an Ioniq 5 for 2.5 years, It’s a First gen car with 23000 km I’m based in Sydney. Just had the ICU update last week completed by Hyundai and for the first time and I now have a flat battery.
No idea why, car has been fine ever since until today…
I've got a 2019 Ioniq that's failed twice now. We don't use Blue-link, we didn't renew the subscription. How do I find the ICCU fuse and can I test it? I've ordered a separate blue tooth battery monitor that hopefully will give me some insight. Love the car, hate being stranded. Keep posting, I hope the Missus recovers quickly.
Greetings from the UK. My electricity supplier offers some very clever tariffs to charge my EV by giving some very low rates when they have a surplus, but this does rely on polling your car, they have recently stopped supporting Kia for the battery issue, but I believe there is a software fix from Kia, and they will soon resume the tariff for Kia.
I have an EV6 for 16 months now, and never had the problem.
If the whole vehicle was restricted to ~16 polling requests per day then Octopus Energy would have difficulty interfacing with the vehicle at all. They would have to leave enough polling requests for the vehicle owner to use the app.
I use this with Tesla and Octopus appear to have the functionality to get a notification when the vehicle is plugged in because that usually triggers an immediate response in the octopus app. Other than to actually start charging their app never appears to wake the vehicle. Maybe the Kia API doesn't have this notification functionality leaving smart apps like octopus to have to poll the car periodically to discover if it's plugged in? I would imagine they could get away with polling it only in the evening every hour for a few hours as their use case is to set an overnight charge plan that they only calculate after 1700 anyway.
I had to have the AA out to my Ionic as it had died and he said I needed to keep the car turned on for anything such as washing or hoovering it out...If your sat in it waiting for the wife to do some shopping leave it switched on.If you switch it off and the doors etc are open the 12v will drain. I noticed a blue light on the dash flashing as well when the car was switched off and locked and apparently the car does this to top the 12v up. This lasts about 20 mins but since I have been following the AA guys advice I haven't had any probs...fingers crossed!🤞
The 12v battery in an EV may be charged through several different charging modes - in drive; parked with no drive; utility (or camping mode); plugged in with traction battery charging and plugged in with traction battery finished charging. Each of these charging modes has specific individual characteristics and these differ substantially from the 12v battery charging profile characteristics in ICE vehicles that are charged through an alternator. Unfortunately 12v EV batteries have been downsized without adequate provision for high 12v electrical current surges and unanticipated loads when the vehicle is not in use.
Looks like the same sort of thing isnow happening to Skoda Enyaqs. Message on app says "Unavailable due to battery protection limit" which has started to appear lately. The solution is to charge or drive the car even briefly.
My Tesla is almost 4 years old and it's lead acid battery is still fine. Tesla made a software change that addressed the problem. The lithium battery in the newer Tesla's is supposed to last the life of the car which the lead acid batteries in the older cars won't. Never the less the lead acid batteries should last about as long as they do in gas cars.
My Ioniq electric 28kwh 2018 model 12v battery failed on the coldest day of 2022, the battery had 7v output. I took it inside put it on charge and aimed a fan heater at it. after 20 minutes it was over 12v and the car was able to start. I went down to Halfords and bought a new one. Its not unusual for a lead acid battery to fail after 4 years.
I have a 2 year old ioniq 5, and had this happen to me for the first time this week. We’d been away visiting relatives, and after driving home the main traction battery was at ~10%. Left it on the drive, not plugged in as the wife’s car was charging ready for her to go to work in the morning. I tried to the i5 over on Wednesday, and nothing. Ended up having to wait for her to come home that night to jump it off her battery, so I could move it over. I very much doubt excessive bluelink usage was to blame, as I rarely if ever use it. Maybe every now and then to turn the car in to defrost during winter time - but that’s it. Should I be getting Hyundai involved for a replacement 12v battery?
My wife and I are so delighted about your wife’s progress ❤
Very sad for him and his family. So young.
My EV6 failed after 15 months would not start 12v battery failure, breakdown assistance jumped it off booster pack. Failed another dozen times even after being in dealership and I was leaving my car on drive with 12v battery charger on. Finally the 12 v battery was changed not good enough on £50000 car. (Still carry jump leads in car as confidence has now gone)
Our EV6 had the battery replaced about two months after we took ownership
It has gone for nearly a year with no problem
It now is currently at dealership being diagnosed ( 3 nights so far)
Same problem going flat at least six times in last week
Told we should not leave boot up for long periods or lock the doors as soon as we get out…..
Huh as if it’s our fault 😢😢😢
After 1 year, my Ioniq 5 works perfectly. I don't make more than 2 bluelink requests per day. I use it to defrost the winshield before work in the morning and to cool my car's cabin after work before I return to it in the sunny parking lot without any issues.
Hyundai make so little profit on the Ioniq 5 that they may not be able to afford a Lithium 12 V battery.
Peter Inns: They need to make their cars with QUALITY if they expect to get a long term decent sized set of reliable buyers. PERIOD.
If they can't raise the prices or learn how to do things cheap enough to be competitive -- too bad. Screwing the customer with bad designs and not fixing the problem is NOT the way to obtain or keep customers, over time.
The US "little three" showed this clearly in the 80's and 90's as they lost a LOT of their customers to outfits like Toyota and Honda. It's not like this concept is new news.
I don't get it.. my EVs 12v has lasted over 5 years with no issue yet. Never quite understood why so many have had an issue over the years and somehow it skipped me. You'd think.. if it's the battery chemistry, it'd happen to all of us.. so why the hell has mine lasted over 5 years and still seems to be going strong as ever. It's 'always connected'.. I've left it for weeks while I'm away on vacation.. never an issue. Course.. now it'll fail tomorrow since I said that lol
I've even had my first ev 8 years, no 12 v issue at all. (Nissan leaf). Also nom issue with a konae64, ioniq (2017 model 28 kwh) or my ioniq 5 ...my current car...until now.
But with my previous diesel car (nissan xtrail) I've had a dead 12V battery suddenly (after maybe 7 years). A diesel needs a lot of electricity to start up, an EV not.
The problem with huyndai is going on for years and is well documented and understood. As you stated the issue is not the battery chemistry but with the software that manages it. The discharge is due to the car not shutting down during parking like if you don't open the door if you park.
I have a 3 year old Kona - I'm on third battery 12V battery ( By the way Volts as a Unit in capital "V") the problem with lead acid battery in EV's is they don't have the shock loading that a cold start ICE would have, now you would think that this would mean it lasts forever, but actually NO that cold start causes break away of the naturally occurring crystals that crow from plate to plate ultimately short the plates. So that's why these type of battery is wrong choice. LFP could be better, but as you rightly say maybe not for colder countries or region's . Could be an old fashioned AGM would prove a better choice. Hyundai have great forums on social media and everyday this issue comes up on one or more of them. They need to do something and stop ignoring the issue.
If normal operation of a vehicle causes it to fail, that is the manufacturer's issue. Trying to blame this on the consumer will destroy owner loyalty.
what mileage are people having problems starting at? if you put 50,000 miles on your car maybe it's time for a new battery
Solution ( bunji cord a 12 V computer battery $40 next to the Huynday $500 battery ). It has been working for the last 3 years.
Teslas previous problem was mostly the result of shortened life after a year or so, not just in a new car or due to leaving things plugged in while parked. Teslas also maintain the 12v even when parked and shut off. Teslas problem is clearly nothing like that of Hyundai/Kia. Our model 3 had no issue and I went to an aftermarket lion 12v after 2 years even though no problem existed or occurred just as a proactive measure.
Sam always talk about an explosion in Norway at a hydrogen filling station lying that 9 people were killed. They weren't- "Hydrogen gas leaked from a tank at the station near Oslo in June 2019 and exploded, injuring three people when a pressure wave triggered airbags in their cars nearby, according to Nel and police reports." - www.reuters.com/article/us-nel-blast-idUSKBN2AG2N4
Most hydrogen refuelling stations now also make the hydrogen at the filling station itself which is an advantage over ICE where it has to be delivered and very expensive and highly polluting from vast amounts of mining for Tesla batteries at their supercharger stations.
My mom's Model 3 RWD is low milage and needed to have the 12v battery replaced. And, more recently, they scheduled a service van to come out and replace the 12v battery again in the past 6 months. Again, her car is a couple of years old and has less than 5k in miles so far.
Our 2020 Kona EV was, I believe the first Hyundai to exhibit this problem. In typical Hyundai fashion they ignored the issue and continued releasing multiple new models again with the same fault. Way to go Hyundai!!!! EVERY major drivetrain component on the Kona EV had to be replaced in the first 25K kms. Main battery, traction motor, reduction gearbox, 12V Aux battery.... We now drive a Tesla
This happened to me yesterday. I plugged in the charger the night before to do a 90% charge (usually do 80%). The car was unlocked. In the morning it was completely dead. I've had the car for about 6 weeks. Never happened before.
Are you based in Australia?
Would you recommend a Ioniq 5?
I dont understand why ev and hybrid need a 12v battery to run the auxiliary system while the propulsion battery is more than adequate of doing the job.
hi, after owning the Hyundai Ionic 5 car for 3 years now, I had the first 12v battery issue today. The car was on charge and had completed for 80% as usual. Today when I wanted to start\power on the car using the fob it did not work. It was dead. Had to call AA for help. He came and jump started the car using his battery kit. He said the 12v battery was drained. Then he told to drive the car for an hour so that the 12v battery is charged. It looks ok now. The car main battery was at 80% though. Such an expensive car but not sure why Hyundai chose to put cheap quality 12v lead battery. Why cant they put a permanent fix to it. Very disappointed and nervous if it happens again.
Wow we were considering the Ioniq 5 but this has put me off. Build quality issues with Tesla pointed me towards the Hyundai……sounds like I better consider other choices now.
Can’t believe this is still going on. Saw it featured a couple of years ago.
Been going on since the first generation Leaf. Nothing new here sadly. Not many want to talk about the Tesla's sucking the battery from the traction battery. Look up phantom drain/vampire drain. These things are WASTING lots of energy while doing absolutely nothing. They need to give us the option to turn off all remote access to the vehicles when parked or whenever we choose to turn it off. If these cars aren't constantly being probed and data collected this problem goes away. But few want to talk about that, and of course the mothership wants your data.
@@Longsnowsm: AGREED that at least MINIMIZING vampire drain should VERY MUCH be a customer OPTION. Like if you're traveling and leaving the car at an airport, for example. With a large BEV battery, leaving it in "minimize vampire drain" mode should mean that it can sit parked for MONTHS (starting with a significant charge level), and not be drained to anywhere close to where the car won't start.
If they can't do simple things like that, they're not even trying, and that's another reason I'll just wait. I drive very little anyway. Wrestling with car problems at retirement age isn't on my agenda. It was bad enough when I was young and poor, so had little choice.
@Tron Jockey: To me, to have to baby sit cars like that unless they're very old is SO 1960's. I want my cars to be RELIABLE and DURABLE, as long as I properly take care of them and they're under, say, a dozen years old (I don't put many miles on cars).
If a car maker can't provide that, I'll move on to a better one.
@@rogergeyer9851 I am seeing this with ICE and EV's now. It is a mess. It is time for solutions and giving customers options to turn it off and to even select what types of events etc that will will accept. Lots of room for improvement needed here. It is a full blown mess.
@blaumax1910 I fixed mine by keeping it on a battery tender and then eventually pulled the modem out of the car and that fixed it for good. It was a programming issue on when to fire that charge for the 12v. Since my car wasn't driven that often I was chewing up 12v batteries until I finally had my fill of it. Battery tender was fine, but pulling the modem was the best solution for me since the Leaf is a local commuter car I didn't use navigation or any of that anyway. This is a broader problem that is affecting lots of vehicles that are now "online" and people and companies are accessing the vehicles remotely. Doesn't just affect EV's anymore either. Anyone who doesn't drive a great deal are probably finding themselves replacing 12v batteries on some regular interval. I knew that going into buying a new truck last year that has the telematics, full remote access etc. I pulled the telematics box out of the truck in pretty short order. Problem solved. If they would just give the vehicle owners the option to just turn it off problem would be solved.
The 12 volt battery in my 2012 Leaf lasted over 9 years. Wth?
Don't forget the Kona! My 2022 12 v battery dies unexpectedly just like the ioniq 5. I have to carry a portable booster pack in the glove compartment just to have any confidence I will be able to get home. This is awful!!
Had same issues for a year. After they changed the battery it has worked for over a year without any issues.
Hyundai and Kia ICE cars have had their share of quality issues. I don’t know why one would expect that their EV quality would be much better.
So true. Billions of $ lost due to defective engine replacements. Their QC is poor.
FYI
The Tesla lithium battery is 16 volts.
Not the same voltage as a led acid battery.
I’m 5 batteries in since April 22, it’s been back 3 times. It doesn’t seem like a difficult fix and it’s really marring my otherwise great experience
My Hyundai Ionic 5 12-V battery just died out of the blue. I've had the car for almost 2- years with 15,000 miles. My battery should not be dying!
Are they saying that the DC to DC charger can't keep up with the usage? How many amps can it charge. It sounds like it needs a higher amp charger in the battery saving mode and reprogram the blue link to reduce the load.