Monitoring the IONIQ 5's 12-volt battery: installing and using a battery monitor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- After my IONIQ 5’s 12-volt battery failed, I got a battery monitor to keep track on what the 12-volt battery was doing. Was the IONIQ 5 topping it up? Was it being drained by something? I’ve tried to find out.
Here’s how to install and use a battery monitor.
Battery Monitor device (affiliate links support the channel, thank you!):
Amazon UK: amzn.to/36CVq6U
Amazon USA: amzn.to/3qE8dLz
Battery Monitor BM2 app:
iOS: apps.apple.com/gb/app/battery...
Android: play.google.com/store/apps/de...
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#IONIQ5 #12v
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:45 - What is the battery monitor?
03:39 - Installing the battery monitor
06:21 - Getting the app
07:41 - Turning on Utility Mode
08:27 - Auxiliary Battery Saver+ on the e-Niro
09:12 - When does it charge the 12v battery?
10:07 - Analysing 15 days of 12v battery logs
17:22 - Tips to minimising risk of 12v drainage
18:28 - Why do we have a 12v battery?
20:46 - Conclusion - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Since your battery problem with the eNiro I fitted a monitor to our eSoul. Since then we had a 12v battery failure which was recorded and viewable as a graph on the monitor. I booked the car in to my Kia agent. They had the car for a week and even with a copy of the graph showing the overnight discharge of the battery to 9v they still couldn't diagnose the problem. This is despite many others with Kias and Hyundais having a similar problem. The car was outside the one year free breakdown cover. They would not supply a courtesy car. Luckily our other car (a Tesla as it happens) was available to avoid the need for a hire car. Kia will only provide a courtesy car if they have to repair a diagnosed fault. Not good. When I took the Tesla in to have a minor connectivity issue addressed they automatically provided a Model S as a courtesy car. Tesla may not have a large dealer network but did better than an OEM in this case. Hyundai/Kia need to get this sorted out.
You should attach the ground first because if you attach the positive first if the negative lead is floating around bumping into the chassis it'll complete the circuit and you might get sparks/etc (if there are any capacitors/inductors in whatever you're hooking up).
Hooking up the ground first means that if the positive bumps into the chassis nothing will happen.
Agreed. Pos off first, on last.
I have seen careless fools arc a battery with an overly long spanner too. On old cars it's usually OK but with the PlayStations that we now drive ...
I bought a year old Kia eSoul. It was delivered/driven 200 miles to my house. Next day I got in it and it wouldn't start.
So, I searched TH-cam and found your videos. I bought the battery monitor and watched the battery lose its power often over the next few days.
I phoned the dealer and he suggested I contact my local Hyundai dealer which I did. They wanted the car for 24 hours to test the battery. I could buy a new battery which cost £80 and would take a few days to arrive or they would replace it under warranty if it was found to be faulty. I didn't feel like wasting my time like that so I spent £60 on a new Varta Battery from ebay. I fitted that and the car has behaved perfectly ever since.
It seems that Kia/Hyundai fit rubbish 12v batteries to their cars. The Varta has a four year guarantee.
Thanks to your videos I was able to establish the fault very quickly.
I'm so happy my videos helped! Great to hear the Varta 12v has been working well for you.
I had similar issues with a MG ZS EV.After some snow the car wouldn't charge on the HV battery,and completely flattened the 12vbattery.This happened a few times,so I had to disconnect the neg lead on the 12v before I could get it back to the dealer.They eventually thought the problem was moisture in a HV plug,but after that the 12v was never the same.It was hard to start in the morning.After numerous visits to the dealer,and an official complaint about the dealer,they swapped the 12v.This cured the problem until 3 months ago when the problem started again.I parted with the car,but still couldn't figure out if it was the car, battery or what was causing it.I think it maybe crap batteries and sitting on a ship for weeks might be a cause.
I have noted on your channel before about the 12V lead acid battery...
1) you only want 12V behind the dash board - 400v or 800V in you dashboard to run the systems would be "unwise".
2) Yes, using standard tools that run on 12V is much cheaper
3) Isolation : the traction battery is only connected to the motors and inverter - and isolated by a large solenoid which keeps the wiring simple and away from anything, and fully waterproof.
4) When off the traction battery is off and isolated - you should hear a clunk when you turn on/off the battery. This is a safety issue, but you need power to run the alarm and listen to the "key", hence you need a supply to run these systems on the car when the car is turned off. This is no different from an ICE car - see point (7)
5) Why lead acid : because it is the best tool for the job, and no, Tesla are not changing it, and Musk has said they wont use traditional Li battery for this. The 12V system undergoes many charge cycles in any car, either ICE or EV, and it is the charge cycle process that kills Li technology batteries - usually limited to 5000-10000 cycles, and the 12V system might undergo 10 or more cycles of charge/discharge depending on the draw current and the alternator/inverter supply current a day when you are using your car, even maybe 100 on a long drive. This would quickly kill a Li battery and people that have tried this often kill the battery in 3-6 months. A lead acid battery under proper conditions should last between 2-5 years, and I have only ever changed 1 battery and I keep cars for a long time - and have had a Tesla for 2 years and not changed the battery. The problem is poor design of software and the car manufacture.
6) Hyundai,Kia and VW all had 12V battery problems because they did not design their software properly resulting in the battery failure. Simple. We all know that we should drive an ICE car every couple of weeks for the same reason, but in an EV we have the option for the system to top up the battery - and car companies that did not do this properly are negligent .
7) Has the problem got worse ? Yes, because we want our cars to welcome us, cos we want better alarms, because we want more toys. The old leaf never had problems, because it had no toys, so like an old ICE car it did not use the battery much. In fact, if you don't have a car alarm the drain the 12V battery is likely to be negligible. We will see the same problems in modern ICE cars too as they will have lots of new toys that were developed from the EV world, and some of these toys will be run when the car is "off".
8) Traditional manufactures are not used to using "deep cycle" batteries, ICE cars use "high discharge batteries". It is likely that they have not got a proper supply of deep cycle batteries and it is even possible they are using ICE batteries (designed for starter motors) which really hate being discharged too much.
Another great video, Andrew- very interesting. I have one of those 12 Volt USB chargers plugged in that also displays the 12 Volt battery voltage. It's usually around 14.8V when the car is on.
Thanks Andrew for another great video 👍🏻
Andrew,
Your video instruction is excellent.
Everything in an EV, except for the motors and the V2L, is powered by the 12 volt battery. There are several good reasons for this, but the best is that all vehicle electric parts are already 12v and it would be stupid to use any other voltage. The 12v battery will always have some draw, even when the vehicle is turned off - the alarm for example - so we shouldn't be surprised. The Ioniq 5 problem will be a stupid software error which, once located, will be easily fixed. As a former software developer for safety critical systems, I will reiterate my usual complaint that today's developers are lazy and don't write defensive software.
Far better explained than my attempt!
A lot of software developers fundamentally aren’t taking the time to understand the system they’re writing for. An automotive mechanical or electrical engineer won’t be allowed to touch development unless they know how a car basically works. Software developers can start at anytime.
i have ionic 5 project 45 my car was flat 3 days running there is a fault on charging flap of the car so when you charge the main battery the charging flap flattens 12v battery after8 days still waiting for replacement parts to rectify fault.
All this makes a good case for a 12V circuit but NOT for a 12V battery: these are not the same. Why not use an always on stepdown transformer? an always on transformer coupled with a supercapacitor? an always on transformer coupled with a small non removable Li battery ? There are various ways a 12V circuit can be reliably fed power (with all sorts of safety backups) but all of them imply keeping a part of 800V circuit power up all the time. If engineers are not doing it now... are they worried about circuits? the controller and 12V transformer cannot be separately powered and they a re worried about reliability? DO not know why but the decision is beyond a simple thinking "12V circuits need 12V battery".
@@sashkashurik I doubt there are any vehicle design exerts here, but if there are then feel free to correct me. It is my belief that the high voltage battery and associated systems need to be completely disconnected for shipping or vehicle maintenance. No EV that I have seen comes with a big power switch; they all use electronic switching, and the separate 12v system allows for this.
You should disconnect the negative terminal first when working on a battery. I do enjoy your down to earth videos.
+1 for your pun :)
Another really informative video Andrew, I'm learning so much from you.
Confession: I think I was one of the comedians who teased you about leaving the battery starter in the boot.😁 Good to know it was a sods law job, typical eh?!🙄
It is pretty rubbish that an oem who has actually made some really decent, desirable evs has let this irritating little flaw persist.
Uck... Hope you're both wrapped up doing the school run, weather is slapping loads of water down! 💦 💦 💦
Also thanks from me for this update on the 12V battery problem. I hadn’t expect that you would experience this problem again with the Ionic 5 as Hyundai / Kia would learn from this problem on the e-Niro!
I ordered the battery monitor just now for my e-Niro although I have no battery problems (yet)……
What a brilliant battery monitoring device that everyone could benefit from installing! It’s a lot better than what I have installed now. My Ford C-Max PHEV tells me on the phone application if there is a 12 volt battery failure. I’m not sure if my Model 3 does that, but it does monitor the lead acid battery and it keeps it charged up. I have a voltage display screen on both car’s cigarette/accessory ports so that I can check the voltage before the cars are started up.
Very interesting and it seems the 12v battery saver is working, so it is surprising you had the issue with your battery too low to start. Thanks for sharing.
Bought the monitor for my I5 which should hopefully be coming start of April. Thanks for taking the time to cover this stuff 👍
Thank you, and you're welcome!
My ionic five "Should" be arriving at the dealer fourth of April. This will be the second months delay. Can I ask when you ordered yours please?
@@airtube27 Hiya - yeah it was 14th Jan
Andrew thank you for a really interesting video. I was viewing it because...... my Ioniq 5 battery died 4 days ago! The recovery guy said it was down to 4V but boosted it and it started fine and I've had no problem since. I had used a tyre pump 2 days before (while engine was running) and driven it after that, but no other use of the 12V that I can think of. Worth saying the temperature went down to -6° and below freezing for a couple of days, and car only had an 11% charge.
So the problem is still there but my garage said "not a known issue".
Cheers Peter
I got one of these Battery Monitor II's after seeing this video. Works like a charm on my Kira Niro EV MY2022 👌 Tnx for the tip 👏
Great to hear!
Thanks for the tip Andrew. Best regards Martin
Thanks for this video, I just ordered one for my motorbike. The battery is hard to get at under the seat and I don’t ride it regularly. This will make it much easier to keep an eye on its charge. I’m Australian and also have an Italian wife, allora. I really identified with your videos with your wife. Love to see more. Cheers
Great to hear, thanks! Have you seen the videos of John Chivers by the way? He has an electric motorbike which looks like enormous fun. Worth checking out if you haven't.
And congratulations on also having an Italian wife! Keeps life interesting doesn't it?!
@@MrEV never a dull moment! Planning on a Tesla for my next car.
I had similar problem with my second hand 2015 VW e-Up!, i used the battery monitor showed in the video, was very useful, i concluded that the 12v battery was to little and checked the 12v battery support plate, as i expected, there was a second screw hole for a bigger (longer) battery. This mainly for cold climates regions where the temperature has bigger impact on cars (engine starter for ICE version, electric pre heating until engine is hot enough to supply heat to the cabin)
I upgraded from an original 40Ah to a 55Ah (Varta with silver dropping tech 👍🏻✅) since then never had any problem again.
Because of this video I purchased the monitor and a capacitor based jump starter. I hope I never need them, but the peace of mind is worth it.
The monitor was helpful, because it shows that the battery is being charged frequently. I have nothing to worry about. Maybe I will check the logs once per week to reinforce that all is good with the led acid battery. So the $25 cost was well worth it.
As for the super expensive capacitor jump starter, it's a lot better than jumper cables or maintaining a battery jump starter. It will help someone someday.
Thanks! Have one on my Id.4 now.
Just ordered thanks for the tip 😊
You're welcome - and thank you if you used my link!
It’s a good job it was only a cheap car, having to buy kit to keep it “start ready” and on the road etc, interesting to see what’s involved 😊
Healthy 12V battery is VERY important. One time, my brakes did not work on my Leaf until the 12V battery charged up for a few minutes. The 12V battery was in bad shape but didn't know it until the brakes didn't work when I started the car. All the brake/ABS lights lit up on the dashboard. The car started to complain off and on that the key was not found. The lights/radio worked and the car would still drive. The OBD port did not work until the battery was replaced.
Depending which chart you read, 12.5v is considered to be about 90% full and 12.65 or 12.7v is considered to be full, so I wouldn't worry too much. This would be resting voltage with no load attached, so the fact it's reading that with a slight load on it is even better. (There will always be a Voltage drop depending on how big the load is)
Hey Andrew, thank you for this video and the helpful links. Cheers from Germany.
Another topic: I read a lot about the HDA not working properly in the Ioniq 5, some reported wobbling effects (car repeatedly steering left right) when using it, other even mentioned life threatening situations (car was driving dangerously close towards oncoming traffic). I currently own a very old ICE car which I intent to replace with the Ioniq 5. So all those fancy assistance systems are new to me and I was pretty excited to get my hands on them. But now I wonder if they are actually save to use? Do you use any of the assistance features or are they just marketing bait?
You have developed obsession about 12 v battery 😊
Just one point worth mentioning. I have been speaking to a Hyundai tech and he insists that the black negative side of a BM2 bluetooth monitor should be attached to a nearby chassis point and not directly to the negative post of the 12v battery. It seems that in the Ioniq 5 there is an additional sensor on the car's lead on the terminal and adding an unexpected bit of hardware there can confuse it and send incorrect messages to the car's computers.
That's really interesting, thank you!
Hi all
We have a 2021 Kia E Niro, delivered Nov 2020, and spotted a 12v battery drain in Jan '21 when on furlough for just a month and at this time only doing short trips to the shops and back. Now back at work and doing a 60 mile round trip 4 times a week have no problems with 12v drain !
Watched all your videos on TH-cam on this point and tend to think it's a issue with lot's of short journeys draining the " tiny " 12v battery as have had no problems with 12v drain now.
Sorry but BEV's are brilliant in town,we live in London, but this short trip 12v battery drain must be a pain for some!
Another good video Andrew. Apart from my eniro I also have a classic car fitted with a Bosch 12v 86ah battery which is kept topped up when the car is not being used by a battery trickle charge monitor. When the charger is off the max voltage ever seen on the resting battery is 12.6-12.7 volts which my local battery supplier says is normal. If the battery in my eniro had shown near 12.6 when resting I would have been quite happy but it regularly showed 12.3-12.4v although since Nov 21 when new it has never gone flat, however since a recent (feb22) software update it now hovers around 12.6v which hopefully means it will remain OK.
I've had this issue on my 2020 Hyundai Kona EV too, although I think that was caused initially by the boot not properly closing and leaving the light on in the boot which drained the 12v battery. This happened a few times and then the 12v battery developed a fault (as they don't like to be left at 0% charge). Hopefully, it won't reoccur... but the Hyundai dealership near me was fairly clueless about this. We're much better at making sure the boot is completely closed (and the catch seems to have eased a bit over a few years so it works a bit better).
Great vid, keep them coming. Is it wise to stick the monitor onto the battery because if you have to change the battery, you've got to rip it off.
Nice video 👍 there’s a red light that comes on on the dash when the 12v is charging, great insight.
I didn’t see that when I looked! Thanks.
@@MrEV behind and beyond the two screens in the middle of the dash
Many thanks for the video. Just wanted to let you know that (obviously) same thing happened to me with my Ioniq 5 (battery dead), so I bought the potable charger and the battery monitor (and a 10mm spanner!). I charged and stored the charger in the frunk, but I had trouble fitting the battery monitor to the battery. I could loosen the live (red) nut, but it just loosened the whole fitting and the nut did not move up the bolt! Also, it is very tricky loosening the neutral (black) nut, so in the end I bought some additional nuts - they are M6 nuts - and attached it using them. It was much easier.
I tried to buy the kit from Amazon using your reference, but I have no idea if it worked.
One final minor note: I have the 2021 model (ordered in August '21, delivered Easter '22) and my Bluelink app does not have a Batter Status setting on the page that you show.
Which portable charger did you buy please?
Good vid with explanation, but what an insane situation to begin with :(
Hi have had a Ioniq 5 now for 3 months. Went to use it this morning only to find the battery dead. Went to Halfords and purchased a gizzmo that you suggested. This got the vehicle going and i am now trying to recharge. Many thanks for the insight
I'm glad you got it going in the end. Ridiculous to have to rely on gizmos like that in a modern car! Do check with Hyundai that you have the latest firmware.
Very good explanations. Well done. Someone should produce an OBD2 dongle with an on off switch via the app. All that data is then available if you turn it on via the app, but you can turn it off when not driving and not doing investigations.
What's the difference?
This uses Bluetooth, so it uses power.
Also, if you switch a Bluetooth device off, (remove power) how would you switch it on again if it's not broadcasting/ receiving.....because it has no power?
@@rogerstarkey5390 Good point. Can it run in a minimal power state that just keeps enough going to start back up when signalled.? The notion is that the problem of having OBD2 connected is the power drain is an issue , is there a way around that ? Perhaps the answer means a switch on the device itself that avoid having to unplug replug ???The battery monitor clearly also is draining some power from the battery, an OBD2 gives the same info and more so why have two different devices?
@@rogerstarkey5390 it actually uses Bluetooth LE (Low Energy). The current the whole logger consumes is just 1 mA! That is way less than what the natural internal self discharge rate of the battery is. So it has literally negligible effect on anything. A 45Ah battery could theoretically power this logger continuously for 45000 hours on one charge! (>5 years!). Standard Bluetooth etc consumes much more power. Using an OBD dongle/app is no use at all for this kind of battery continuous monitoring and 24/7/365 data logging. These BM2 devices are ace. There is nothing better for the purpose. I can check mine anytime from inside the house. Total peace of mind.
Thanks!
Wow, thank you so much!
Hi Andrew, I installed the same device after watching your first video and kept LOTS of notes and images to better understand the 12V battery- it is fun to watch what happens. On a Kia Soul 64kWh the AuxBatSaver comes on once every 24hrs if I don't drive for about 20 mins or so. If I do drive the ABSaver does not activate that date. Mine only runs for 20mins when it charges and it is not activated by the voltage, only time. The exact time if the car is not driven is exactly 24hrs after the ABSaver ends the day before so it moves "up". The spikes occur when I open the door, trunk, check using the Kia Connect app and yes, when Kia checks - randomly. Good to see they have upped the time to an hour!
The reason behind the 12 volt battery is when stopped and parked with engine off the big battery is disconnect. In order to reconnect you would either have a big switch that you’d have to turn on or a relay switch and that requires 12 volts to operate. That’s the main reason for the 12 volt battery and the reason why nothing works when it’s dead. I notice that Tesla are now in some of their cars fitting a 12 volt lithium battery, I think that’s the way most companies will go because you can drain a lithium and recharge without damage but lead acid is damaged if drained below 55 % of its capacity.
You can get smarter BMS systems too that will drain to 20% then shut off early. To use that last bit of capacity you need to press a button on the battery. The idea is if you've left a light on or something then accidentally drained the 12V battery it's not fully drained and still has enough juice to start your car, no jumper cables required.
"because you can drain a lithium and recharge without damage" - no you cannot a 12v Li battery is permanently damaged if drained below safe voltage. It actually is a much more complex tech than acid and requires a BMS with autoshutoff and so on BUT it has a greater capacity for the same size.
Great video. Based upon your feedback I've got the same battery monitor for my Ioniq which shopuld arrive next month. Does the battery monitor not actually drain the 12v battery or is the drain via the Battery monitor minimal?
Hyundai seem to have had a real issue the dead 12 volt batteries running flat in EVs. I myself in my '19 Kona EV have had to replace the 12-volt battery after the first 12 months of ownership however after reading so many others with the same problem across the internet I decided to switch the lead acid technology for a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) replacement and I have had no problems with that battery or anything else related to the 12-volt system since. The battery was 50% more expensive but should last 4 times as long. Even if I do flatten the battery, it won't care and won't be damaged such as a lead acid technology would and I have not had this situation arise anyway. Best decision I've made regarding boys I've added to the car over the year. BMS is rated to 50A continuous which is plenty. The funny part is when I take the vehicle into the dealership for its yearly services they tell me that the 12v battery fails the load test naturally because the BMS simply cuts out when they try and run too much current from the battery.
Hi Andrew, great video, I bought the battery monitor for my classic car off the back of this video. I was having battery issue with it losing charge and it was much easier to work what was happening with the logs from the battery monitor app. Thanks!
Thanks for the great video Andrew. Have you by any chance taken a closer look at how Bluelink app usage affects the 12v? If you open the app, presumably the car goes into "accessory" mode - but for how long until it goes to sleep again? Definitely need to keep away from the app at night :)
Thanks for looking into it Andrew - luckily havent had any issues with the 12v battery yet in my Ioniq 5 RWD but good to know we should get out of the habit of quickly turning off the "engine" once we arrive somewhere and sit in the car for a bit! The only issue Ive had is with the car date/time which seems to get confused and out of sync when switching between different driver/profiles when I or the missus jumps into the car on different days. Even when set as GPS time so will need to see whats causing that
Also curious how many cranking amps would be needed to jump start the 12v battery since there is no engine that needs to turn/start like in a ICE vehicle
Thank you for that informative video
I noticed you showed the Battery Discharge Warning on the dashboard of which I asked you in your video About your dead ioniq
Does that warning keep popping up on the dash if you continue to ignore it ?
You mentioned that you couldn't see any indication that the onboard 12v battery is being charged
Does it not mention this function in the vast manual ?
How do you get the associated links to the monitor and power pack please ?
Andrew. I fitted one earlier this year to my Prius and it was a revelation to discover the charging algorithm on the hybrid. However I found occasionally it would fail to upload 12v battery history curve leaving a gap between last good upload and moment of failure. (Could lose days or weeks up to max storage ).
Developers (in China) say probably a bug and no way to retrieve the lost data.
I would have flipped the positive spade terminal 180 degrees so that only the relatively thin and flexible wire would have to exit the battery terminal cover rather than the large, solid red hunk of plastic. It looked like there was plenty of wire to accommodate that.
Your video reminded me of one of the benefits of an EV is being able to leave the system on while waiting in line for car ferries here in Seattle US area. here it is unlawful to idle an ice engine in the ferry line. Winter of course. Nothing like a warm seat.
That's a great point - I always forget that benefit. It's the same when we go across to mainland Europe in the Channel Tunnel.
One of the first things I did when I got my EV (a 2016 Kia Soul EV+) was replace the 12V lead-acid battery with a LiFEPo 12V battery (actually two 20AH 12V ones in parallel) which behave much better than the lead acid batteries in pretty much every way.
@timemachine194 Not sure if the Soul itself does (I would say yes), but the LiFEPo4 batteries do. The built in BMS does a lot in protecting from under and over voltage and other problems. Here's the info page for the battery I got (ReLion RB20): relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb20#:~:text=ELECTRICAL%20SPECIFICATIONS
If anyone is interested, here's what my parallel setup looks like: photos.app.goo.gl/UV5WPdsJqnzRVQnZ8 (Remember to connect + to + and - to -, *NOT* + to - and - to +, otherwise you will have a 24V setup that will likely fry your system!)
@timemachine194 I'm sure they chose that cutoff limit after much testing. All I can say is that I've had no problems whatsoever with it. My guess is that the Soul's own BMS limits voltage to the 12V battery to well under 15V anyways. I haven't monitored incoming voltage with the system live, but I might do that in the near future just to see where it likes to hover.
@timemachine194 There are two things, I feel, that also work in the 12V battery's favor when it comes to BEVs. First, there are no, like you say, hard demands on the battery at all. Even the power required to engage the traction battery is far lower than what's needed to engage a starter. But even more importantly, I feel, the amount of heat that is under the hood where the battery is located is SO much lower and I definitely feel that this not only helps the longevity of the 12V, but of so many of the other components in there too. I've driven mine for well over an hour and then popped the hood to put washer fluid in and it's barely warm in there, whereas with my old ICE cars if I drive it more than about 10 minutes and do the same it is like an oven in there.
A quick mention on this note: I recently found out that Toyota puts the starter for their Tacoma (or Tundra?) truck *INSIDE* the engine block, under the intake manifold. I can't think of a worse place to put that. I'm guessing it gets a tad warm in there, not to mention the cost of replacing the starter since you have to remove the whole intake too. I guess it helps ground clearance? Gives it a cleaner look?
@timemachine194 Oh, okay. When I bought the battery I was worried that it would require a special charger or some alteration be made to charge correctly, but when I read that it had its own built in BMS and that it can be used in "any application that a lead acid battery can be used" I decided to give it a shot and it's worked like a charm so far.
Happy with my BM2. I have a different usage pattern due to 2 dashcams with security function on. My P45 has an even more rapid drop off than yours on the 12v and tops up more frequently. It all seems to work, so why do people get a flat battery as it seems to top up as intended?? All cars in this price bracket should be a lithium not lead acid 12v, even my motorbike has one….
My only beef with the BM2 is the battery consumption on my phone when constantly monitoring.
Great video Andrew. I've just experienced the same issue with my 3 week old, 500 mile ionic 5. On charge overnight, dead in the morning. This is my fist ev so i had no idea what had happened until watching your 2 videos. Not impressed that this has happened without warning in a £40k+ brand new car!! What was the outcome of taking the car back to hyundai? Can't find the promised follow up video?
Such a high tech car with 800V system yet Hyundai forgot to think about design to keep 12v battery charged!
Nice product. I think I will get for my spouse's ice vehicle, thankfully is built into my EV app already
Excellent video. I already have a battery booster pack (stored in the frunk), but have now ordered a monitor from Amazon. One question occurred to me though: What sort of current does the monitor itself draw and would this cause any significant battery drain if the car is parked up for a while, such as in an airport car park while I'm off sunning myself.
It only uses 1mA so a pretty insignificant draw.
Hi Andrew,
EV6 owner. Have 12v battery failure. Kia dealer unaware of any issues. Mentioned social media, and your channel in particular, with multiple instances of this issue going back many months.
The battery WOULD NOT charge (or at least retain a charge) using all sources including external 12v battery charger for 3 days.
It is currently left at the dealer waiting for a technician to diagnose.😡
Sorry to hear that. You’re certainly not alone - I’ve heard of so many people having similar issues. Let me know how you get on. With the Hyundai IONIQ 5, a firmware update sorted it so my hope is the same would be true for the EV6. For such brilliant, advanced EVs like these, to be having 12V issues is laughable.
Got the 12v monitor you recommended but I m going to use it on my caravan, just wondering if you’re going to tow with your car? Would make a great video to watch! Just seen the Car wow video where he test the Skoda under a few different conditions, would be nice if you could do the same with the I5.
Is it possible the gradual drop is caused by your device being constantly active and draining the battery? Doe it have some mode in which it would be mostly in standby mode and wake up only to sample the voltage? It would be nice to see what happens when I leave for a 2 week vacation in winter
I have a 2017 Ioniq Hybrid. The hybrid classic Ioniqs were equipped with the lithium ion 12 volt batteries while the plug-in and EV versions were stuck with the lead acid. There were many reports of dead 12v batteries in the PIH and EV Ioniq forums. Don’t know why Hyundai has persisted with lead acid in their more electrified versions.
After my 12 volt failed fully today, someone at hyundai just told me that putting a battery monitor on could invalidate my warranty.. I was also told that (surprise to me) that replacing the 12 Volt myself, even with a genuine hyundai battery, could also invalidate my warranty. I was told I had to call breakdown and get the car towed from my drive to the hyundai service centre and only then could they swap the battery without a two week lead time. I was not allowed to jump start the car and drive it to them.
I was told "that is how the whole car industry does it".
Can't deny this has made me somewhat rethink my plan to upgrade from a kona to a ioniq 6.
How utterly ridiculous.
Thanks. Although I don't yet have a BEV... I really wish the IONIC 5 was more widely available in the U.S.
But- I wasn't aware of these Bluetooth devices. They will likely be handy even for ICE cars. I'm going to try one.
Those two huge tablet screens on the infotainment systems must be eating away at the 12v battery, and I thought I was bad with my glitchy Golf mk8 infotainment systems!
It's amazing how much Hyundai appears to have left out when they launched IONIQ 5 in the UK compared with the original Kona EV, such as battery heating and a heat pump. My Kona 64kW EV also had a car settings option where you can set the traction battery to charge the 12V battery when its voltage was low. I always had this option enabled, but some people didn't and ended up with flat 12V battery, so in a later BMS software update Hyundai removed the option and left it permanently on. I know when this is happening because if the car is parked & locked in a car park, and I come back to it, the amber LED in the front Hyundai badge may be on, warning high voltage under the bonnet. This typically occurs once a week during the winter, especially when outside temperatures are sub 5C. I primarily do short journeys in my Kona EV (fully charge it once every 3 weeks), and in almost 3 years of ownership, I've never had a flat 12V battery. May be Hyundai need to fix the IONIQ 5's BMS software or check they don't have a batch of faulty 12V auxiliary battery monitoring sensors fitted to the launch IONIQ 5s?
Is it possible to export battery readings from that app to, say CSV format or similar?
That battery monitor just dropped from $27.50 US to $20 US over the last couple days, so good time to get it while it's on sale.
Just ordered one of these, will be interesting to see how the Kona compares, with a BMS update.
Thanks! I seem to remember Kona updating topping-up multiple times a day but I may be wrong?!
Yes, we often see the 12v charging light lit up, on the logo.
Surprised the Ioniq5 doesn't use same BMS method.
The 12 Volt battery runs almost everything except for the main traction motor and the AirCon.
Our EV runs the infotainment screen, radio, daytime running lights, bluetooth, if i, etc at all times that the car is being used. Some of those systems never seem to be turned off. For instance, how does the car detect your proximity with the key? It's because the system is always running.
It's very easy to draw, let's say, 100 mA (0.1 Amps) with those devices. A 50 Ah battery which is fully charged, and actually capable of delivering the claimed power, will be drained completely within 21 days, if the car is not in use. Unless you're running that battery saver mode.
In Winter, the Lead/acid battery will have reduced capacity, and as it ages it's capacity also reduces. So after a year of use, and if the car isn't used almost every day, it's common for that 50 Ah battery to have a capacity of 20 Ah or less. In Winter, even in England, the capacity can be halved again very easily. So that might leave a true capacity of 10 Ah or less in cold weather. That assumed 0.1 Amp power draw will therefore flatten the battery completely after about 4 days of standing idle.
Incidentally, how much current does that battery monitor draw? That current adds a little more to the drain of the battery.
I would like to replace the lead 12V battery with a li ion battery since i m away from home 5 month a year. Could you advise me the right 12V lithium battery that would fit the Ioniq 5?
Mr EV, thank you for this video and for the helpful links. Please keep the Good Work going. I ordered IONIQ 5 MY23 ; which is arriving in the UK end of February 2023. I hope Hyundai have updated ALL the software etc. However, I will purchase BM2 battery monitor. It's look like 12 volt battery dose lots of things in Ioniq 5. I think that 77 kWh main battery supports only the Driving Distance. I have a different question for you Andrew, which is about a immobiliser. Do you think, fitting a GHOST 2 immobiliser will void the Hyundai Warranty ? please let me know. Thank you in advance. ( GHOST 2 distributor is AutoWatch UK )
replacing a lead acid +12V battery with a Lithium Ion equivalent won't help if it there's phantom power draw on the +12V line and the car's own monitoring software doesn't notice the low voltage and automatically turn on the DC-DC converter to top it up. My hunch is that there's probably something going on when the charge flap is open but not charging because it's peak rate electricity. Are there lights in the charge flap?
Excellent video but I don't think there is much point in the bluetooth module. I had this issue after two years with the Kona, and it occasionally went flat. I changed the 12V and it has not happened since. The best solution is to have one of the small Lithium Boosters that you showed in the car somewhere. Also useful with USB output for emergency top up of mobiles etc. Do not but a cheap one, they are useless, I returned mine. Pay not less than £70 and I think most will be good. You can tell straight away if they are good by the weight. Light weight means poor battery capacity.
I hope those little monitors have decent in-built circuit protection. That little box would make a great little fire-starter connected across the battery like that if it ever shorts internally otherwise! I think I’d be inclined to install a 1 Amp inline fuse rather than risking a £48k car.
It does have short-circuit protection apparently.
@timemachine194 The unit only uses low milliamperes until there’s an internal short circuit. Also, “basically a fusewire” wrapped in plastic is basically a fire starter. That’s why we have actual fuses.
yes i agree, from an owner of exactly the same car, but gravity gold in spain, they should do a recall as this is the sort of thing that puts people off getting another car from a company, especially when they had the "risk" of it being a hyundai in the first place.
Ive had issues registering the account on line and hyundai could not solve the issue for 4 to 5 weeks, its little things like this that make you remember who they are and they should not allow that to happen.
i like the new Buzz from VW, I would have considered it I have to say, ideal for dogs..
Andrew, just a note, the monitor is straight across the battery so if a short cut appears then may be some serious damage under the bonnet, so should it not be fused?, as for your booster if you battery dies and you find it hard to enter to jump start the battery how about installing a permanent supply say under the charger flap, so if you carnt get info the car then open the charge port and plug you booster in and this may give you enough power to open the door and switch on the car
Excellent video Andrew, thank you.
I got the battery monitor yesterday, but the problem I encountered was with the nut on the positive side. The negative can be loosened to accomodate the monitor effortlessly, but the positive nut seems to be stuck / glued / solded in such a way that when I loosen it, the whole thing releases, which does not provide any gap whatsoever for the monitor to be fitted between the nut and the base. And when loosening it further, the whole thing releases from the battery. Any ideas why that is? I hope my question makes sense
I had the same problem, but managed to force it in there after removing it completely from the terminal post.
Hi. Not sure if you can change the car settings to use the high voltage battery instead of the 12 volt ? In the Cupra Born app. you can tell the car to use the high voltage battery instead of the 12 volt when idle.
That's a great feature! You can turn on Utility Mode (which does the same) but not from the app as far as I know.
@@MrEV Cool at least they thought of that. Many Tesla drivers had issues with flat 12 volt batteries
(even James May) when leaving cars for 2 weeks while on holiday as sentry mode and other circuits drain the battery.
I believe the problem with the 12v battery discharging fully is to do with the Hyundai's Bluelink app and the charging flap. Opening the charging flap with the app is causing some issues which results in constant connection with the app. People in Hyundai forums have advised not to use that function until it is resolved...which it may have been by now
Yes, it’s now fixed thanks to a BMS update at the dealer. I’ll do a video soonish!
Do you know what would happen to that spanner or possibly battery if you unfortunately touched the vehicle ground whilst undoing the power connection? You should always undo the vehicle ground and leave disconnected before touching the power lead (I'm saying power instead of positive for those cases where the vehicle has a positive earth/vehicle frame connection).
The battery or spanner could explode!
I had the zombie mode problem once. It happened because I used the app to open the charger flap before charging. Since I stopped doing this I’ve never had the problem again.
Great video, thx. I’ve got the new Kia Niro EV and I managed to discharge my 12v twice now by remotely starting the climate control. Just installed the monitor to see what’s going on. Does your Ioniq discharge if you remotely start heating?
Congrats on getting the new Niro! I no longer have the IONIQ 5 unfortunately, but no, that didn't happen for me. I'd heard of other people having issues when using the app though. It was all fixed with a BMS update the dealer had to do, so maybe check with Kia to see if there's a known issue and whether an update will solve it?
@@MrEV Will do
I've had a lot off issues with the 12v battery on my 2020 Ioniq, same thing it will all be fine and then one day the car just refuses to turn on, luckily I haven't had a problem with it locking me out yet. It does seem to be when the car has not been used for a few days that this happens, I have battery saver enabled but that doesn't seem to stop it happening. I've always put it down to the data communication it does with the App and short journeys that don't give the 12v time to charge.
I have an Ioniq 2020 and I drive many short trips, with the car often standing still for many days in between. I haven't had problems, but perhaps it helps that I don't have Bluelink. I sometimes see the blue blinking lamp on top of the dashboard (indicating that the 12V battery is being charged), especially when it is freezing outside.
What size of portable 12v charger should I purchase?
I wonder if you could just replace the lead acid battery with an automotive 12v lithium polymer replacement battery and be done. It should simulate a lead acid battery without the downsides. I have one for my motorcycle and it works like a charm.
How long (how many miles) have you owned this car? Cheers.
Does Hyundai use a Lithium Ion battery? We just took delivery of our MYLR this past weekend and it has the new battery which is supposed to be more robust. Time will tell I suppose.
Surely the car itself could monitor the 12v battery voltage and send a notification via Bluelink? I have a Kona electric so this issue concerns me.
That would be a great idea.
One issue I have seen is that the 12V battery is frequently the same one used by the brands ICE options. I had major issues with the 12V battery on my hybrid as it was designed for starting an engine, but it never saw a starting load. These 12V batteries should be deep cycle with proper battery management. They will last much longer than the starting batteries I have seen.
I couldn't agree more.
Just used the affiliate link to get one of these to stick on my dirty diesel as the stop/start keeps killing batteries within 6 months, it'll be good to see what's going on. Can't wait to get into an EV!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Something else you can do with a smart phone! Joking aside, it’s likely that the charging set up in your Hyundai is set up to manage a lead acid battery properly, using the “float charging” technique. It’s a compromise between keeping it charged up, but without too much chemical damage to it’s plates, thus extending it’s life cycle. If it operates as a float charger, you’d expect the voltage to be lower for a while, then back up to a charging value when it switches on.
After all, in most normal cars there is always some demand on the 12V, such as the alarm system, so they do run down every day, and are charged up intermittently in normal use
I’ve got an old mains powered gadget that does provide a float mode, with a couple of settings - slow, and fast, and an auto ‘float’ mode, so when it’s left on for a while, it will automatically avoid overcooking it. Essentially, in that mode it does not provide a ‘trickle charge’, but it is intermittent.
Hey Andrew, have you tried buying an inverter or making one with a 1 amp charger in series to a miliamp charger? You can charge a 12 volt with Epson salt and distilled water for 48 hours. It should last a year on Ice and charge back the amps to 70 %, you can do this up to 3x or roughly for 3 years.
Hi Andrew could you please share the link for this nice bit of kit, I wanna get my FE Soul hooked up cheers
Of course! Here you go: misterev.co.uk/gear/12v-monitor
Surely a Bluetooth OBD2 reader is a better choice?
It would not only show the state of the 12v battery, but also the main battery condition, including cooling circuit temperatures (to diagnose the "variable" fast charge?)
Should have a means to monitor the charge module state as well?
I believe the power draw would be much more than the 1mA this draws. Since my e-Niro 12v issues began with OVMS being plugged-in to the OBD2 port, I've grown weary of trusting it too much!
Also, I've heard reports of OBD2 devices not being very secure as, in theory, anyone could walk past and connect to the device to unlock the car etc? I'm happy to be corrected on that though!
@@MrEV
Still worth plugging in to monitor the charge door state when in the car, etc?
18:28 You could put a solid state transformer to down step the motion battery voltage to 12v. Its commonly done in camper vans to take the 48 or 24 V house battery down to 12V which the cheaper 12V components can use. So I disagree that we need a 12V battery. The car does this already when it charges the 12V. It outputs 14 or 15V to charge it.
My I5 should arrive in October in Luxembourg. These issues will hopefully be fixed by then.
If that were the case why does ever manufacturer including Tesla fit 12 volt batteries, simple it’s a safety precaution that allows things to work, lock, and the relay switch for the 800 v battery ect. If your right I’m sure Tesla who are always looking for expert’s in this field, would offer you a job. LOL. It’s only when plugged in or the engine is on that the motion battery comes into play and charges the 12 volt battery otherwise the motion battery is totally isolated.
@@wobby1516 Remember to keep comments respectful...
I disagree, RAW direct available 12V systems are feeding security components while driving (ABS pump, ABS sensors, steering angle sensors, collision warning systems, airbag-controllers, seat belt pre- tension-ers, window regulators, alarm-lights, emergency brake (pedal) assist, too much) If you make these systems depend upon one other step-down electronic system (the DC-toDC converter) you introduce a whole set of new risks that did not exist before. I am convinced we will need a 12 V (with its own separate feed) system from the High voltage battery. The FIRST thing that gets disconnected in an EV- car-crash (ie. when an airbag goes off) is the High-Voltage connector. I think a lot of the manufacturers make this connector with a mechanical spring to get it to break the connection to all other systems in case of an accident. It needs 12V to make (and sustain) the connection to the rest of the HV components. 800V DC is a major danger if not well managed!
Eco Worrier Difficult to change 400v DC to 12v DC using a transformer. It's a bit more complicated than that. In fact it's a lot more complicated than that. The car already does it to charge the battery. The battery is just a store to hold everything at 12v for the services.
I wonder if installing a deep cycle 12V battery is feasible, either AGM or standard. The car does not need cranking power. The OEM 12V is only 60 amp/hour I believe, not a lot.
I too have had several problems with the 12V battery of my EV. Two battery failures on our Renault ZOE within 3 years, and the first battery failure on our 2.5 year old Hyundai Kona EV. According to the workshop foreman at my car dealership, Hyundai has massive problems with the quality of the supplier's batteries. The Honda dealership stocks a large number of 12V batteries because the batteries of all cars fail very frequently. Unfortunately, the battery voltage is not a reliable indicator of whether the battery is still healthy. It's the internal resistance. 12.6V is the physical no-load voltage of the battery when fully charged. 14.4V is the recommended charging voltage at 25° battery temperature. Normally, the 12V batteries of EVs are significantly less stressed than in cars with internal combustion engines. Why they still fail so often is a mystery.
Hello, does the device mounted on the 12 v battery not consume the current from it? Is it possible to tell me the consumption of this device?
A tiny amount - 1mA.
As you say, the 12V system is for compatibility with existing automotive electronics and components, and it's also for safety. It's also necessary to disconnect the main high voltage battery when it's not in use. You clearly don't want everything in the car to be running off 800 Volts for a multitude of reasons, only one of which is safety for the occupants. If you're going to run things off a lower voltage, it just makes sense to go to the already existing 12V standard.
Hi Andrew, Do you plug-in the Ioniq 5 when you are not using it? According to the Tesla maintenance manual, the car is designed to be kept plugged in, so I suspect that this applies to the Ioniq as well. According to the manual for the Ioniq it says that the 12v battery is being charged as well as the main battery. However, I wonder what happens when the main battery reaches 100%. My order for the I5 is now delayed by Hyundai until delivery in July. Ciao
You are able to set how much you charge your battery to within the settings. Unless you’re planning a long journey, charging to 80% is recommended. Good luck for July
I just plug it in every other week. EVs don't tend to like being kept at 100% all the time (less an issue these days due to robust battery management though).
I doubt the 12V would continue being topped-up when it reaches 100%.
@@MrEV Thanks Andrew. The 12v issue is most interesting and I wonder what all the systems draw, when the HV battery is not on.
I love the idea that some people imagine they could have 800v interior light bulbs!
Right, or a seat-heater, or the steering wheel heater! 800V airbags,... these things are scary even when on 12V! And imagine the sheer amount of insulating plastics that would be needed to shield these circuits, and the security features for everyone involved in car-repair, car-crashes and accident assistance. The mind boggles just giving it a quick thought!
@@smijas you know your stuff, can you tell me which battery is used when I initiate remote climate from the app, to preheat on cold days. Does that hit the 12V? What battery does the heating use?
Please tell me which brand to buy. The one you shoe is on Amazon @ £39.99 and there are others @ a lot less. Is the one you show worth the extra? Appreciate your help.
I think there are a few that are virtually the same, just with different packaging. I've not tested them so I can't say for sure though, sorry! If you find one that goes on the battery as this does, supports Bluetooth 4.0, and has an app - then I'm sure it'll be fine. I just find it's the app aspect of this that makes it so good. Other 12V monitors that plug into the cigarette lighter are ok, but you have to get in the car to see the voltage which makes them less useful I think.