Better question, what value hands does Hero take a x/jam river line after very aggro action on previous streets? If we have QQ or 1010, we can’t allow a check back so value betting would be necessary.
This is what you do when you know you got sucked out on the river and try to steal it out of frustration, when a lot of hands that now beat you are unlikely to fold
I’m glad to have found this page! I’ve been playing recreational poker three to four times per year for the last 17 years, and I think i’ve won 15 to 20 percent of the time. Now it makes sense as to why i lose so much more than I win. I’m leaning how to evaluate the hands, the thinking process that takes place when placing a bet, and responding to other players bets based on the range and position, through the stories of this channel subscribers. ,i’m able to evaluate all the actions with the chart, from all the players while listening to the Analysis, and it’s a game changer for me, I’m so very happy, thank you 🙏🏼
If u focus on just the preflop Ranges that still stick around on the river - it is already super tough to find even hands that would bluff the River... there is almost no worse hand left. That is also the reason why you shouldn't 3bet q9s at all when being oop postflop. Guess the Best and only reasonable bluff combos for our opponent are AJ (But this hand would jam and not bet small) or some suited axs hands (but to bluff these would need balls out of steel / so missmatch to the discription of our opponent). So basically: no bluffs left...
This is an ambitious bluff but it needs to work 1 time in 4 so I can see a lot of people folding here even hands like JT vs a x/r river. Props to the caller for keeping it compose and for calling a losing hand, for some reason even as a pro I m not interesting in hearing people bragging about their won hands.
If you unblock hearts, why would the play be to jam? If he’s got a busted heart draw, the play would be to call. So really the only hand to bluff him off of is AQ. Really enjoyable hand to walk through though.
@@Gos1234567Q9ss blocks AQ combos from 12 combos to 8 (net 4). And blocks combos of QQ , 99 , QTss, T9ss from 8 to 2 (net 6). It goes both ways, but more so blocking thick value that snaps (:
@@Gos1234567 Yes. This falls under fancy play syndrome. Theres a love affair with poker jargon now and people dont grasp the actual concepts of terms they use.
@@greatwhite3676 "range advantage" is another one that annoys me,people spewing off their stack into a calling station just because an ace is out there! The more "balanced" (new jargon for the old mixing it up) players try to be the worst they seem to play!
@@Gos1234567 I couldnt agree more. Range advantage only matters when people are playing reasonable ranges!! I would argue being unbalanced is the best way to win at live poker. You should be 95% value 5% bluff in live 2/5.
I think that the worst thing is that the hero blocks Q, so there are less combos of AQ out there. If he's targeting that specific hand. And also there are a lot of hands that the villain is never bet-folding, only few bluffs.
Yep seems either the guy tilted and used the "bl0ockers" excuse or he has read a bit about blockers and used them in totally the wrong situation. Trying to get one sliver of the possible range (which is mostly polar) to fold is madness.
Exactly. Nothing folds to that shove except busted heart draws. And the chance of the old guy calling the turn bet sizing on a flush draw is low. This is an absolute absolute punt..
If the hero is putting the villian on AQ, then what hands does he think the villain puts him on 3-betting preflop, then barreling the first 2 streets, AA or KK? If the villain has AQ, then he isn't going to think the hero has QQ. The river is a painful fold for me.
on the turn it wasn't suggested he might raise a combo draw like J9h or AJh (or JT but that makes trips later), I wonder if that changes anything in the analysis. hero mentioned he'd raise his value, but would he semi bluff on the turn, too? if he would that's more reason to call the river, since he could have random J in his hand that doesn't get there.
If I’m the villain with AQ I’m comfortable calling action on the flop. The turn is probably a fold for me, but if I playing the player ( this hero sounds a bit of bully ) then I’m thinking 50% of the time I am in front. When the river pairs the board my hand has improved I’m prepared to value bet at the very least. Because, so many times I’ve been in the hero position where I’m counterfeited or run down with a better 2 pair, by a villain with top top on flop
I disagree with the caller that Q9 is the best combo to check jam river with bc of his read that the villain would raise all of his 2 pair + earlier. In that situation blocking 99, T9 and QQ is irrelevant. Think you want to block his Tx, his most likely bet calling hands. So you want hands that have the Jd,Jh, Kd,Kh and Ah although the Kx probably not so much since it turned the nuts and would've raised.
I raised Q9S out of position because I have an edge. What edge is that? Not scared to put the money in the middle? You watch Hustler Casino Live 5 times a week? You understand basic pot odds and equity? Poker is a game that should keep you humble. You not only have to make the right decisions but also need your hand to hold too. Nothing wrong with confidence but thinking you can outplay everyone can be pretty detrimental when you feel entitled to a pot, or don't want another player to beat you that hand.
As soon as said that i knew he was going to something dumb and light some money on fire. Even if you have an edge in skill that doesn not always equate to winning in poker. Theres a lot of variance.
Lol, before reveal it's like J-10 or 10-x of hearts all day, just check call you're getting a decent price if super curious, on if he can turn a somewhat made hand into a bluff, if you think you're bluffing him off a Q and getting snapped by a 10, there's no price here to bluff. If you're thinking you can get him off a 10 you're delusional lol. Even if they think you have KJ or QQ/99 they're still gonna have to sigh call cos they're at the top of their range with trip 10's here as played. His bluffs are A-x of hearts, most of his K-x of hearts are crushing you. He's only got a few hands to bluff with and they're reverse blocking, meaning like, he can't really bluff with A-x of hearts cos how is Hero gonna have a hand that folds this river that isn't A-x of hearts themselves WP on villain on inducing the aggro player who 3! Q9s OOP to shove with no equity lol. This is actually just a c/f. As Bart says just cos you're checking doesn't mean you don't win, it can go c/c and you win at showdown, but when V bets here, he's just beating you. They don't have enough hands to call a value bet with worse with for 3 streets. This was definitely an 'entitlement tilt' play where you know you had the best hand on the flop and felt entitled to the pot, but it got away from you and you couldn't let it go.
Hero checked the river and then I paused it to write this comment.. Hero should be jamming the river, Not checking, to get max fold equity: it’s a super strong line; and hero blocks full houses. Villain will fold a lot of hands this way.
The callers should look up the definition of effective stack size… it’s not what you have, but the lowest stack in the pot… you can have 1900, but if your opponent only has 700, the effective stacks are 700
He's saying that in this spot fold > call > raise or maybe call > fold > raise. I.e. you can argue about whether calling or folding is best but raising is for sure the worst play.
Hero played this like he was playing an online tourney. Clearly doesn’t fully understand live cash game dynamics. First, Q9s is a horrible 3 bet from the small blind against an omc raise. The omc is just going to call with every better hand and fold every worse hand, you might get exactly Q10 and QJ off-suit to fold but that’s about it. This type of player is never opening a worse hand even on the button, especially with a limper already in. Honestly, I often see the limper cold call the 3 bet in the live games I play, then hero has to play 3-ways out of position off a pre-flop bluff. This raise basically never wins the hand pre-flop in a live game. On the river, maybe online someone folds a 10 here, but live any 10 is never folding and villian gets to river with soooo many 10’s, and likely raises AQ on the flop given the draw heavy board (this is how omc’s play). So hero is getting exactly KQ and QJ to fold but villian NEVER raises these hands on river. Overall, Hero’s play gives me hope for the future of live poker.
The point of the channel is to learn. He called in a hand he obviously played incorrectly. The problem about this era is people are learning from their mistakes.
Really dislike this play, once villain calls that sizing on the turn when the ten falls on the river and with his river sizing I think it's just a fold most of the time and I guess maybe sometimes a call if the villain is clearly a very bad player. I feel like villain is only ever folding busted hearts here to your jam...I think he just calls off AQ KQ and obvs JT which are realistically the only value he has on the river the way the hand was played, unless he somehow has 33 and slow played, likewise he could have T9hh. Your stack sizes aren't large enough for you to apply max pressure on the river and fold out AQ and KQ and then also the JT. I also just think if the player is pretty average on the whole you can wait for a much better spot and just own him with value instead of this approach.
I’m not check raising here as a bluff against a guy that’s never thin value betting or bluffing the river. He’s only betting trips or better. The “hero” over thought this one and got too fancy. You talk a good game hero but dumb it down some against weaker opponents
This was in Bonita Springs? No wonder he lost he was definitely the poorest person at the table by a wide margin. These guys play golf for way more money than poker.
Hero/Villain sounds so ridiculous referring to a poker hand, especially if the self-proclaimed "hero" just lights money on fire. It sounds like it's straight out of Zelda. Could you ever even just imagine Phil Ivey speaking like this explaining a poker hand? No.
@@coleclark6866 "hero vs villain" is two people. You can't follow a two person narrative? For instance "I" bet 1/2 pot after "first to act" checked the turn.
@Jimmy Two Times Imagine somebody that has no idea about poker and they hear about somebody talk about Hero vs Villain. It's going to sound like Pokemon card, magic the gathering players, whatever the hell it is. There's a lot of money at stake, this is serious business. Should not be Syfy, Pokemon card bullshit story linens when the "hero" losses and the villain is just a poker player.
how is he calling himself "WE" might sound to you? Sounds sound? Now when he said: "well, WE are to act next", and immediately add "I" bet..." and "HE" raises so WE call. So: when comes to bet, then it's "I". When calling, then it's "WE" ...and when addressing opponent then "HE". And when lose the pot, then WE lost, when wins then "I" won. I bluffed. SO: "I" never lose, never play weak, it's WE who did that. But when money comes to my part of table, then it's "I" who won it. And the opponent? He is always "HE", never "THEY".
What do you think the minimum hand the button villain is betting for value here on the river?
Trips or better. JT at a minimum
kk or better
ttt
Quads
Better question, what value hands does Hero take a x/jam river line after very aggro action on previous streets? If we have QQ or 1010, we can’t allow a check back so value betting would be necessary.
This is what you do when you know you got sucked out on the river and try to steal it out of frustration, when a lot of hands that now beat you are unlikely to fold
this jam is 100% chat pro approved
Lol so true. I can’t escape that mindset tho.
I’m glad to have found this page! I’ve been playing recreational poker three to four times per year for the last 17 years, and I think i’ve won 15 to 20 percent of the time. Now it makes sense as to why i lose so much more than I win.
I’m leaning how to evaluate the hands, the thinking process that takes place when placing a bet, and responding to other players bets based on the range and position, through the stories of this channel subscribers. ,i’m able to evaluate all the actions with the chart, from all the players while listening to the Analysis, and it’s a game changer for me, I’m so very happy, thank you 🙏🏼
Really great discussion Bart! I feel I understand what you're talking about now I'm more knowledable about the game.
If u focus on just the preflop Ranges that still stick around on the river - it is already super tough to find even hands that would bluff the River... there is almost no worse hand left. That is also the reason why you shouldn't 3bet q9s at all when being oop postflop. Guess the Best and only reasonable bluff combos for our opponent are AJ (But this hand would jam and not bet small) or some suited axs hands (but to bluff these would need balls out of steel / so missmatch to the discription of our opponent). So basically: no bluffs left...
I feel like hero just wanted to win the hand not win at poker. Happens to me all the time
This is an ambitious bluff but it needs to work 1 time in 4 so I can see a lot of people folding here even hands like JT vs a x/r river. Props to the caller for keeping it compose and for calling a losing hand, for some reason even as a pro I m not interesting in hearing people bragging about their won hands.
Your thumbnails are better and less click baity…I think it’s bc your audience is here to learn NOT be entertained
Bart's thumbs can be all blacked out for all I care and I would still click and watch every one lol
O no !we are always entertained by some of the crazy plays on this channel.
If hero unblocks hearts I see that as a reason to call, not jam. Busted flushes aren’t calling a jam.
Well said
If you unblock hearts, why would the play be to jam? If he’s got a busted heart draw, the play would be to call. So really the only hand to bluff him off of is AQ. Really enjoyable hand to walk through though.
This guy is misusing the blockers theory.He blocks AQo the one,one hand he is trying to get to fold!!
@@Gos1234567Q9ss blocks AQ combos from 12 combos to 8 (net 4). And blocks combos of QQ , 99 , QTss, T9ss from 8 to 2 (net 6). It goes both ways, but more so blocking thick value that snaps (:
@@Gos1234567 Yes. This falls under fancy play syndrome. Theres a love affair with poker jargon now and people dont grasp the actual concepts of terms they use.
@@greatwhite3676 "range advantage" is another one that annoys me,people spewing off their stack into a calling station just because an ace is out there! The more "balanced" (new jargon for the old mixing it up) players try to be the worst they seem to play!
@@Gos1234567 I couldnt agree more. Range advantage only matters when people are playing reasonable ranges!! I would argue being unbalanced is the best way to win at live poker. You should be 95% value 5% bluff in live 2/5.
I think that the worst thing is that the hero blocks Q, so there are less combos of AQ out there. If he's targeting that specific hand. And also there are a lot of hands that the villain is never bet-folding, only few bluffs.
Yep seems either the guy tilted and used the "bl0ockers" excuse or he has read a bit about blockers and used them in totally the wrong situation.
Trying to get one sliver of the possible range (which is mostly polar) to fold is madness.
Exactly. Nothing folds to that shove except busted heart draws. And the chance of the old guy calling the turn bet sizing on a flush draw is low. This is an absolute absolute punt..
So would you flat call, or would you fold the 40% pot bet on river?
If the hero is putting the villian on AQ, then what hands does he think the villain puts him on 3-betting preflop, then barreling the first 2 streets, AA or KK? If the villain has AQ, then he isn't going to think the hero has QQ.
The river is a painful fold for me.
on the turn it wasn't suggested he might raise a combo draw like J9h or AJh (or JT but that makes trips later), I wonder if that changes anything in the analysis. hero mentioned he'd raise his value, but would he semi bluff on the turn, too? if he would that's more reason to call the river, since he could have random J in his hand that doesn't get there.
If I’m the villain with AQ I’m comfortable calling action on the flop. The turn is probably a fold for me, but if I playing the player ( this hero sounds a bit of bully ) then I’m thinking 50% of the time I am in front. When the river pairs the board my hand has improved I’m prepared to value bet at the very least. Because, so many times I’ve been in the hero position where I’m counterfeited or run down with a better 2 pair, by a villain with top top on flop
The more I watch your content, the more I understand how trying to bluff opponents off river value hands is a bad idea.
If villain would fold AQ he's not betting it on the river. Too much showdown value to risk getting blown off the hand.
I disagree with the caller that Q9 is the best combo to check jam river with bc of his read that the villain would raise all of his 2 pair + earlier. In that situation blocking 99, T9 and QQ is irrelevant. Think you want to block his Tx, his most likely bet calling hands. So you want hands that have the Jd,Jh, Kd,Kh and Ah although the Kx probably not so much since it turned the nuts and would've raised.
I raised Q9S out of position because I have an edge. What edge is that? Not scared to put the money in the middle? You watch Hustler Casino Live 5 times a week? You understand basic pot odds and equity? Poker is a game that should keep you humble. You not only have to make the right decisions but also need your hand to hold too. Nothing wrong with confidence but thinking you can outplay everyone can be pretty detrimental when you feel entitled to a pot, or don't want another player to beat you that hand.
Fancy Plap Sydrome pre and post,the ruin of many
As soon as said that i knew he was going to something dumb and light some money on fire. Even if you have an edge in skill that doesn not always equate to winning in poker. Theres a lot of variance.
I would not jam …just call the 400$ or ,maybe even fold depending on my read of the player
Lol, before reveal it's like J-10 or 10-x of hearts all day, just check call you're getting a decent price if super curious, on if he can turn a somewhat made hand into a bluff, if you think you're bluffing him off a Q and getting snapped by a 10, there's no price here to bluff.
If you're thinking you can get him off a 10 you're delusional lol.
Even if they think you have KJ or QQ/99 they're still gonna have to sigh call cos they're at the top of their range with trip 10's here as played.
His bluffs are A-x of hearts, most of his K-x of hearts are crushing you. He's only got a few hands to bluff with and they're reverse blocking, meaning like, he can't really bluff with A-x of hearts cos how is Hero gonna have a hand that folds this river that isn't A-x of hearts themselves
WP on villain on inducing the aggro player who 3! Q9s OOP to shove with no equity lol. This is actually just a c/f.
As Bart says just cos you're checking doesn't mean you don't win, it can go c/c and you win at showdown, but when V bets here, he's just beating you. They don't have enough hands to call a value bet with worse with for 3 streets.
This was definitely an 'entitlement tilt' play where you know you had the best hand on the flop and felt entitled to the pot, but it got away from you and you couldn't let it go.
Hero checked the river and then I paused it to write this comment.. Hero should be jamming the river, Not checking, to get max fold equity: it’s a super strong line; and hero blocks full houses. Villain will fold a lot of hands this way.
He called with trips because the “hero” is probably over bluffing in general against this dude.
These stakes you don’t need fancy plays
The callers should look up the definition of effective stack size… it’s not what you have, but the lowest stack in the pot… you can have 1900, but if your opponent only has 700, the effective stacks are 700
What does Bart mean at 11:18
He's saying that in this spot fold > call > raise or maybe call > fold > raise. I.e. you can argue about whether calling or folding is best but raising is for sure the worst play.
He's saying that raise is the last thing he would do. He's not super sure whether he'd fold or call, but raising is the worst option.
First fold, then call if that does not help. Then raise if calling makes you lost.
He beats QJ?
No, he was mistaken
Hero played this like he was playing an online tourney. Clearly doesn’t fully understand live cash game dynamics. First, Q9s is a horrible 3 bet from the small blind against an omc raise. The omc is just going to call with every better hand and fold every worse hand, you might get exactly Q10 and QJ off-suit to fold but that’s about it. This type of player is never opening a worse hand even on the button, especially with a limper already in. Honestly, I often see the limper cold call the 3 bet in the live games I play, then hero has to play 3-ways out of position off a pre-flop bluff. This raise basically never wins the hand pre-flop in a live game. On the river, maybe online someone folds a 10 here, but live any 10 is never folding and villian gets to river with soooo many 10’s, and likely raises AQ on the flop given the draw heavy board (this is how omc’s play). So hero is getting exactly KQ and QJ to fold but villian NEVER raises these hands on river. Overall, Hero’s play gives me hope for the future of live poker.
Omc = old man coffee, 50+ year old, often retired, that spends 40 or more hours a week sitting in a poker room playing very conservatively.
Raising preflop shouldn't necessarily be about trying to get immediate folds. Taking the lead in the hand gives you a better chance to win post.
@@AT-bw4cm I would agree if hero was in position, in this case hero was oop against potentially 2 other players.
The point of the channel is to learn. He called in a hand he obviously played incorrectly. The problem about this era is people are learning from their mistakes.
@@Cubswin2434 For balance and to maintain an aggreesive image, an omc, who will generally play faceup is the prime candidate to raise op.
Did he say he beats QJ?
I would have thought that he had 9-9... thats why he had the low raise on the limbs trying to get cheaply to the flop!
If I could only have half my money back from all the times this happened to me.
Me when villain calls flop: he has JT
Turn: he has JT
River: he has JT
So in the flop villain doesn't call with AQ, KQ, QJ, AJs, T9...
Wow you're a diviner! Who need to think in ranges if you can nailed! Now to vegas
@@malazuth3306thanks, I have good game sense. Comes naturally.
Ten plus
Really dislike this play, once villain calls that sizing on the turn when the ten falls on the river and with his river sizing I think it's just a fold most of the time and I guess maybe sometimes a call if the villain is clearly a very bad player.
I feel like villain is only ever folding busted hearts here to your jam...I think he just calls off AQ KQ and obvs JT which are realistically the only value he has on the river the way the hand was played, unless he somehow has 33 and slow played, likewise he could have T9hh.
Your stack sizes aren't large enough for you to apply max pressure on the river and fold out AQ and KQ and then also the JT.
I also just think if the player is pretty average on the whole you can wait for a much better spot and just own him with value instead of this approach.
T8 of hearts at the worst probably
I’m not check raising here as a bluff against a guy that’s never thin value betting or bluffing the river. He’s only betting trips or better. The “hero” over thought this one and got too fancy. You talk a good game hero but dumb it down some against weaker opponents
This one hurts
😊
Do you feel Bonita?
This was in Bonita Springs? No wonder he lost he was definitely the poorest person at the table by a wide margin. These guys play golf for way more money than poker.
🎉
Enough of the click bait thumbnails, please; they're insulting.
I’m a thinner value bettor than you
Easy fold on the river for me.
Ya jam was completely pointless as literally nobody bets Kx there without a T. I called Tx immediately.
Just fold pre
Hero/Villain sounds so ridiculous referring to a poker hand, especially if the self-proclaimed "hero" just lights money on fire. It sounds like it's straight out of Zelda. Could you ever even just imagine Phil Ivey speaking like this explaining a poker hand? No.
but it makes it easy to follow the action
@@coleclark6866 "hero vs villain" is two people. You can't follow a two person narrative? For instance "I" bet 1/2 pot after "first to act" checked the turn.
@Jimmy Two Times Imagine somebody that has no idea about poker and they hear about somebody talk about Hero vs Villain. It's going to sound like Pokemon card, magic the gathering players, whatever the hell it is. There's a lot of money at stake, this is serious business. Should not be Syfy, Pokemon card bullshit story linens when the "hero" losses and the villain is just a poker player.
how is he calling himself "WE" might sound to you? Sounds sound? Now when he said: "well, WE are to act next", and immediately add "I" bet..." and "HE" raises so WE call. So: when comes to bet, then it's "I". When calling, then it's "WE" ...and when addressing opponent then "HE". And when lose the pot, then WE lost, when wins then "I" won. I bluffed. SO: "I" never lose, never play weak, it's WE who did that. But when money comes to my part of table, then it's "I" who won it. And the opponent? He is always "HE", never "THEY".
@@pot_kivach160 lmaooo what did i just read