The hero's river action is the key winning concept. If you can count more worse hands that will call you than better then a raise is correct but recognizing when to raise fold for value is the key. The raise getting paid off by worse will print profit, however if not capable of folding after raising, then a call only is better since you're now drastically changing the formula and would negate the profits from when villian just calls.
While true, when raise folding for value, you need to be pretty accurate about what worse hands will call you (including what fraction of the time they got there with them), how often. I absolutely do not buy that AJ/AT is always calling a pot-ish river raise here after they throw out a blocker, which may be a block bet by trips, or may be a raise inducer by aces full. Then we're into debating what fraction of the time you get paid by which worse hands, which actually is where the conversation should have started rather than ended. The answer is far from 100%, so simply counting combos without discounting them steeply, is wrong in my view. The answer also depends very heavily on hero's table image. Mine is usually that if I raise you on the river here, you're probably totally screwed if you have AK, AQ, AJ, AT. If hero has an image of always raising busted draws and always raising trips no kicker, then I'm no expert on what to do here, because I'm not that guy.
I’ve seen multiple times in live poker with recs not 3betting AK pre and just jamming all in on the river with trips best kicker for "value" and got better to fold because they said they were just playing their hands😅
Seconding recs massively underplaying AK pre then massively overplaying it post. That being said it would take a special type of player to 3 bet river jam trips just because their AK finally hit.
@@njerseydavid the problem is he’d have to be a really bad player to think AK is the best hand there and that he could get value from worse. He’d be totally out to lunch to think his pot size river 3 bet could be called by worse trips. Possible from a terrible rec, sure. But not likely.
I’ve seen players do that but the small river bet and then 3bet jam isn’t how I usually see them over value a hand like AKo. They tend to bet bigger or just jam straight out.
@@njerseydavidI’d say AQ/AJ would be more likely to bet turn than A9/A8. A9/A8 are extremely unlikely to get outdrawn on the river and so would be much more likely to slow play than AQ. With A9 you’d be really wanting villain to make a flush or straight on the river.
I don’t know. As a recreational player I could see myself playing AK this way. I bet the guy had an Ace. The check on the turn max him think his Ace was good here. I bet you had the best hand. Just my nobody opinion.
I like this hand because that's how I would have played it as well, and it seemed like easy decisions for me. So I got to feel smart on this hand (that doesn't happen often enough).
This strategy definitely works a lot of the time. The reason is that there are so many bad live players in the pool. Villain should really never be calling this river, unless he has some read or intuition that hero is bluffing. It's really a fold or raise spot. Because hero should really have a bluff like missed clubs or he should have a full house. Hero should never be raising any AX hand that is not full here. So his range really should be 88 - that checked back turn to allow villain to hit a club, or 66 - like he actually had, or A6 - which will only be 1 combo if Villain holds an ace. Hero also never has A9 here - no way he goes big with his C bet & then checks back on turn - those moves are two different player types. As to the "reveal", villain may well be lying - players lie all the time about their cards. I do think that Bart's disbelief is more about villain not 3 betting pre and/or not raising flop. But he often misses the mark about people having AK. It is perfectly possible for villain to have it. His river jam does seem bizarre with it - but he could easily be a bad player or just think hero cannot call because he never thinks hero would play A9 A8 99 or 88 with this betting line. Quite frankly - I doubt very much hero ever has any of those hands. Villain also might simply be ignoring 66. So he figures he only loses to A6.
I think it's reasonable to include the A-X suited wheel draws as possible hands for the villain when deciding to raise the river. I don't think villain has to raise or fold a hand like A-4 suited preflop. I don't think he's turning those hands into a bluff on the river. I think he either folds or calls, but doesn't raise with his trip Aces.
A rec player could easily have A9 or A8 here, they don’t really consider how many players are still to act behind them and call if they like their hand, which in this case could easily be A9 or A8.
He definitely has AK here. Bart might be forgetting they’re starting sub-100BB effective with the straddle on, and might be relying on absolute bet size since most of the calls he takes are at 1/3 or 2/5. Don’t think we can fold here sitting sub 100 BB pre and the way our hand seems underrepped
I think that’s a call cuz people tend to overplay high kicker aces in those spots as no flushes or straights complete and they think of their trips as of nutted hand on the river, so for me that’s a call all day
What about the bet pacing on the River? 5-10sec to shove shows a surprising lack of thought for a decision that should require at least some consideration. Also some sliver of 88 must be in V range when he R blocks. Though should not be in 3b shoving range. rhough
can someone explain Bart's rationale that on the river, the villain could be betting less that half pot with a busted flush draw as a bluff? What would the villain put the hero on if so? KQ? even if that was the case, he'd be behind...
asian rec older guy is NOT 3-betting an AK offsuit there. He could easily be telling the truth. Your ability to call the river raise is whether you have liquidity at your disposal to make the call, lose the money and then not continue the game. A lot of the times 66 is winning on that runout
@@EllieBanks333 Depends on how he structures his flop betting range, hard to tell based on him blasting 66, but AA, 99, 88, A9s, A8s all seem reasonable to slow play flop or turn.
@@CancelIFR He got called by next to act when using decent sizing on flop. What hands does he need to slow play against? Villain really should not have 9X, but if he does - why call flop & fold to a good turn card?
I honestly believe the player had ace King. Facing a raise with the big blind still to call. In that situation the way that board ran out I would’ve just called on the river. That hand was actually played pretty poorly from the beginning. 6s is a flat call
Nope. Villain doesn't have AK. No way. I think hero played this completely fine, slightly less on the flop like Bart said, like 80, defo check back turn, river raise should probably be slightly larger. But this spot is definitely a fold he doesn't do this for value with trips & you have bottom full house so it's just a fold.
I feel like Bart is giving the SB way too much credit. Because it's 5/T? If the SB is a fish himself, or feels that the caller or any of the blinds are fishy -- and especially if he's deep with the blinds -- then he's going to cold call ATo and AJo, any small or medium pp, and any suited ace. Just in general at 5/T there is a lot of cold calling in the SB for various reasons.
The villain asked the caller, “AK?” because he was hoping the caller had AK and wanted a call. Add that to the fact that the villain didn’t show leads me to believe he had a better boat. I would hold here too and sleep well.
good fold or no... You'll never know 😅 i dont like how this was played. After small flop bet, you check the turn. So on river he knows there is no way you have an ace
nitty nitty nittty fold! don't raise to 650 to just have Sb spew some bs and jam on you. You gotta call it on the river if ur gunna arrive there with a full house with 66s tf did u do here....
I don't like cbetting this flop multiway at all. You don't get worse to call or better to fold and you're almost never taking the pot down on the flop multiway anyway because people float flops way, way, way too wide in live cash, so there's very little protection you're gaining. Most people expect an ace and definitely 99 to check the flop most of the time, so people will float with air just to take it away later since you're pretty capped. An OMC could definitely have AK here and would go for it on the river. They'd never think you played 66, 88, 99 or A9 this way.
@gabrielrockman that's just not a line most take with an A or 99 here, though. So people aren't going to fold a ton of meh hands that have a ton of equity against 66 and he's going to get bluffed off the pot all day.
It really depends how "trappy" people are playing. How often does hero check his AX on this flop, other than A9? I do agree that Villain might have actually had AK here though.
How can you say “don’t get worse to call” and “never taking down the pot down on the flop multiway because people float flops way too wide” in the same sentence????
@ZacharyBrasel because even just two overs and a backdoor is almost 50/50 with his hand? Worse would be like 22, not giving a super +ev price to KcJh lol. And even if people do call with worse here, it's because they know they're going to steal it later from what is clearly a very weak range.
He didn't have AK. Bro has a weak Ave trying to scare a stronger ace. Or he thinking he is slow playing with AK. Depending on player, and pool. This is a chance. Don't ask me details cause it's obviously player dependant. Buddy 4 bet and called my 5bet all in with AK suited, i had QQ. That guy I don't think would end up on the river like this villain. Another guy called 3 semi bluffs of mine from out of position. In the river he said, "well i have a pair so I have to call." he had pocket 6s, and i would call a river jam from this guy. It's all player dependant. Live reads can be more valuable than any gto or exploit play.
The hero's river action is the key winning concept. If you can count more worse hands that will call you than better then a raise is correct but recognizing when to raise fold for value is the key. The raise getting paid off by worse will print profit, however if not capable of folding after raising, then a call only is better since you're now drastically changing the formula and would negate the profits from when villian just calls.
While true, when raise folding for value, you need to be pretty accurate about what worse hands will call you (including what fraction of the time they got there with them), how often. I absolutely do not buy that AJ/AT is always calling a pot-ish river raise here after they throw out a blocker, which may be a block bet by trips, or may be a raise inducer by aces full. Then we're into debating what fraction of the time you get paid by which worse hands, which actually is where the conversation should have started rather than ended. The answer is far from 100%, so simply counting combos without discounting them steeply, is wrong in my view.
The answer also depends very heavily on hero's table image. Mine is usually that if I raise you on the river here, you're probably totally screwed if you have AK, AQ, AJ, AT. If hero has an image of always raising busted draws and always raising trips no kicker, then I'm no expert on what to do here, because I'm not that guy.
I’ve seen multiple times in live poker with recs not 3betting AK pre and just jamming all in on the river with trips best kicker for "value" and got better to fold because they said they were just playing their hands😅
Seconding recs massively underplaying AK pre then massively overplaying it post. That being said it would take a special type of player to 3 bet river jam trips just because their AK finally hit.
@@njerseydavid the problem is he’d have to be a really bad player to think AK is the best hand there and that he could get value from worse. He’d be totally out to lunch to think his pot size river 3 bet could be called by worse trips. Possible from a terrible rec, sure. But not likely.
Yeah I’m not sure I’m as convinced as Bart that a rec couldn’t play AK this way.
I’ve seen players do that but the small river bet and then 3bet jam isn’t how I usually see them over value a hand like AKo. They tend to bet bigger or just jam straight out.
@@njerseydavidI’d say AQ/AJ would be more likely to bet turn than A9/A8.
A9/A8 are extremely unlikely to get outdrawn on the river and so would be much more likely to slow play than AQ.
With A9 you’d be really wanting villain to make a flush or straight on the river.
You think that recs can’t value own themselves with trip aces? Happens all the time. Then again, I’m in jacksonville
I don’t know. As a recreational player I could see myself playing AK this way. I bet the guy had an Ace. The check on the turn max him think his Ace was good here. I bet you had the best hand. Just my nobody opinion.
Nah he'd show it
I wonder if the WPT is doing a massive free roll
I think some people are over value betting nonboat Aces...
I like this hand because that's how I would have played it as well, and it seemed like easy decisions for me. So I got to feel smart on this hand (that doesn't happen often enough).
This strategy definitely works a lot of the time. The reason is that there are so many bad live players in the pool. Villain should really never be calling this river, unless he has some read or intuition that hero is bluffing. It's really a fold or raise spot. Because hero should really have a bluff like missed clubs or he should have a full house. Hero should never be raising any AX hand that is not full here. So his range really should be 88 - that checked back turn to allow villain to hit a club, or 66 - like he actually had, or A6 - which will only be 1 combo if Villain holds an ace. Hero also never has A9 here - no way he goes big with his C bet & then checks back on turn - those moves are two different player types.
As to the "reveal", villain may well be lying - players lie all the time about their cards. I do think that Bart's disbelief is more about villain not 3 betting pre and/or not raising flop. But he often misses the mark about people having AK. It is perfectly possible for villain to have it. His river jam does seem bizarre with it - but he could easily be a bad player or just think hero cannot call because he never thinks hero would play A9 A8 99 or 88 with this betting line. Quite frankly - I doubt very much hero ever has any of those hands. Villain also might simply be ignoring 66. So he figures he only loses to A6.
I think im leaning towards being
an omc and I no doubt raise here..
About same amount as hero.
And would feel committed to call off
Was villain not asking hero if he had ak?
I think it's reasonable to include the A-X suited wheel draws as possible hands for the villain when deciding to raise the river. I don't think villain has to raise or fold a hand like A-4 suited preflop. I don't think he's turning those hands into a bluff on the river. I think he either folds or calls, but doesn't raise with his trip Aces.
A rec player could easily have A9 or A8 here, they don’t really consider how many players are still to act behind them and call if they like their hand, which in this case could easily be A9 or A8.
He definitely has AK here. Bart might be forgetting they’re starting sub-100BB effective with the straddle on, and might be relying on absolute bet size since most of the calls he takes are at 1/3 or 2/5. Don’t think we can fold here sitting sub 100 BB pre and the way our hand seems underrepped
"definitely AK" Wow, send me the link to your poker coaching and i'll sign up with reading skills like that
Take out the word "sub" and the word "definitely", then you're in the ballpark.
What do we use five time bank so far?
Geez full house.....gotta call!
I think that’s a call cuz people tend to overplay high kicker aces in those spots as no flushes or straights complete and they think of their trips as of nutted hand on the river, so for me that’s a call all day
Sorry I’m calling this all day
I think you want 9x to call. If you go small on flop and turn and they flat. You can over bet the river at a high frequency
What about the bet pacing on the River? 5-10sec to shove shows a surprising lack of thought for a decision that should require at least some consideration.
Also some sliver of 88 must be in V range when he R blocks. Though should not be in 3b shoving range. rhough
AK doesn't play this way, but I was thinking AQ or AJ. I could see it played thru like that if v didn't think about a boat on board.
150% could see a rec playing AK this way. Happens alot in my $2/5 game. They over-value trips like it's nutted all the time.
425+650+2375=3450 pot size with 1725 behind
Yeah, he double-counted the initial $150 bet on the river.
@@renx81 Thanks, I also noticed that something wasn't adding up.
Wouldn't a rec player over value AK? AQ-AT?
can someone explain Bart's rationale that on the river, the villain could be betting less that half pot with a busted flush draw as a bluff? What would the villain put the hero on if so? KQ? even if that was the case, he'd be behind...
Bluffs and AK rep a portion of his range. Maybe 1/10?
I’ve never played 5/10/25 but I don’t think I can raise call the river
asian rec older guy is NOT 3-betting an AK offsuit there. He could easily be telling the truth. Your ability to call the river raise is whether you have liquidity at your disposal to make the call, lose the money and then not continue the game. A lot of the times 66 is winning on that runout
Nah he'd show it.
I don't think hero is that far up in his range if he has some turn slow plays. Either way, I can't see villain taking this play with Ax as a bluff.
What would his turn slow plays be?
@@EllieBanks333 Depends on how he structures his flop betting range, hard to tell based on him blasting 66, but AA, 99, 88, A9s, A8s all seem reasonable to slow play flop or turn.
@@CancelIFR He got called by next to act when using decent sizing on flop. What hands does he need to slow play against? Villain really should not have 9X, but if he does - why call flop & fold to a good turn card?
Good fold. If he did have AK he didn't do it as a bluff. Prob just had no idea.
I honestly believe the player had ace King. Facing a raise with the big blind still to call. In that situation the way that board ran out I would’ve just called on the river. That hand was actually played pretty poorly from the beginning. 6s is a flat call
Nope. Villain doesn't have AK. No way. I think hero played this completely fine, slightly less on the flop like Bart said, like 80, defo check back turn, river raise should probably be slightly larger. But this spot is definitely a fold he doesn't do this for value with trips & you have bottom full house so it's just a fold.
Just want to say even if you say they shouldn’t the reality is 0% if rec players are just calling 109suited pre and folding flop next to act on AA9
I feel like Bart is giving the SB way too much credit. Because it's 5/T? If the SB is a fish himself, or feels that the caller or any of the blinds are fishy -- and especially if he's deep with the blinds -- then he's going to cold call ATo and AJo, any small or medium pp, and any suited ace. Just in general at 5/T there is a lot of cold calling in the SB for various reasons.
The villain asked the caller, “AK?” because he was hoping the caller had AK and wanted a call. Add that to the fact that the villain didn’t show leads me to believe he had a better boat. I would hold here too and sleep well.
good fold or no... You'll never know 😅 i dont like how this was played. After small flop bet, you check the turn. So on river he knows there is no way you have an ace
I thought that game was match the stack
Villain bluffed with 89 of hearts
Eh it could be AK there
I don't think you beat hardly any of his value.
You've got like the 10th nut.
he 100pct had AK... a rec player wouldnt understand the needling at the end
Terrible fold
Return to hustler!
Nobody I know plays Holdem cash, plo and tournies is where the money is
Then what are you doing here?
True, exept for usa..😂😂😂
Lol donkaments
@ sounds like a skill issue
nitty nitty nittty fold! don't raise to 650 to just have Sb spew some bs and jam on you. You gotta call it on the river if ur gunna arrive there with a full house with 66s tf did u do here....
No
I don't like cbetting this flop multiway at all. You don't get worse to call or better to fold and you're almost never taking the pot down on the flop multiway anyway because people float flops way, way, way too wide in live cash, so there's very little protection you're gaining. Most people expect an ace and definitely 99 to check the flop most of the time, so people will float with air just to take it away later since you're pretty capped. An OMC could definitely have AK here and would go for it on the river. They'd never think you played 66, 88, 99 or A9 this way.
I think that's why he sized it up slightly to try to increase his chances of taking down the pot.
@gabrielrockman that's just not a line most take with an A or 99 here, though. So people aren't going to fold a ton of meh hands that have a ton of equity against 66 and he's going to get bluffed off the pot all day.
It really depends how "trappy" people are playing. How often does hero check his AX on this flop, other than A9?
I do agree that Villain might have actually had AK here though.
How can you say “don’t get worse to call” and “never taking down the pot down on the flop multiway because people float flops way too wide” in the same sentence????
@ZacharyBrasel because even just two overs and a backdoor is almost 50/50 with his hand? Worse would be like 22, not giving a super +ev price to KcJh lol. And even if people do call with worse here, it's because they know they're going to steal it later from what is clearly a very weak range.
If the villain was Asian he was 100% playing A9, A8, or A6. Suited or not.
He didn't have AK. Bro has a weak Ave trying to scare a stronger ace. Or he thinking he is slow playing with AK.
Depending on player, and pool. This is a chance. Don't ask me details cause it's obviously player dependant. Buddy 4 bet and called my 5bet all in with AK suited, i had QQ. That guy I don't think would end up on the river like this villain. Another guy called 3 semi bluffs of mine from out of position. In the river he said, "well i have a pair so I have to call." he had pocket 6s, and i would call a river jam from this guy. It's all player dependant. Live reads can be more valuable than any gto or exploit play.
Btw I'm not knocking you. I enjoy your content and you've helped me a ton
'out to lunch' means spaced out, disengaged, loopy