modern euro5 bikes ride nothing like numbers they're boasting. They're dead until almost WOT and torque range is awful in a lot of them. One of the last modern bikes I rode was Panigale v2, 155 hp from 955cc v2. It's dead until 7.5k rpm and than for a brief 2k you have some sort of a power and than it dead again.
Yamm, you are mixing the specs of Triumphs with older models. Starting from 2023 the new model has been refreshed and better than ever. You should try it asap.
@moto022, you are correct. The new version does have a 6 axis IMU with lean sensitive traction control, lean sensitive ABS, a few more ponies, plus up & down quickshifter as standard.
Check your info Yammie ...Both the ST R and the RS have rider modes, QS / Blipper, and a six axis IMU and ST RS makes 128HP. Sounds like you're pulling data from the older models.
I'm on my 3rd Streetie. I wouldn't call the TFT on the RS an upgrade. It's unreadable, illegible, almost useless... you're lucky you're happy with one on the R. 🙂I joke though, that I'd buy the ST even if it didn't have a dash.
He classifies 'middle weight' at the start of the video as: 100+hp, 700cc-997cc... so the cb650r misses out on this list. Which is a bummer, because it's such an awesome bike!
IMO, The Z900 is an awesome bike. Personally, I love inline 4's but what makes this bike awesome is that it has the rider aids you need without having to much while making good continuous power/ torque throughout the rev range
Yammie has been hating on the z900 since he rode it I have had one for 3 years and I love it. I don’t have the pleasure of riding any bike I want so hard to say how it stacks up to the others but 125hp for less than 10k is hard to say it’s bad value for money
@@jakescheid9602he’s a clown for hating on the z900 . He put some ugly ass expensive bmw that makes 95 hp in front of it and cost double. This guys opinion is not valid😂
This list is on point Papa Yam! Just a note, sharing the 1st spot with MT-09, the xsr900 should be there, that also got a slight update for the 2024 year and is literally the same thing underneath. Brilliant machines, good Job Yamaha
Ok, so the Z900 has more power and costs less than almost all of these other bikes, but it comes in at #7 out of 8. I live with one and unless you plan on taking it to a track (which you absolutely could do) it is fantastic. I have ridden it for over 2 hours straight (from Gulfport, MS to Baton Rouge, LA) on one tank of gas at over 40 mpg and never had any issues with comfort. It is amazing that all of these lesser bikes are rated so high. I know it is just your opinion, but I believe you may think differently if you rode a Z for a while.
It's really a great bike, I love it.. unfortunately the middleweight category is extremely competitive and the Z900 just lacks some of the latest features offered by the competition and is also a bit heavier than most.
I feel similarly about the gsxs750, which I do own. Looking at the performance-to-price ratio many of the bikes have it’s hard to beat either of them. And regarding the gsxs specifically, pretty much everyone I know that owns one can’t figure out why it gets so overlooked.
About the new suzuki GSX-S750 being one of the only new 4 inline nakeds you can buy. I just want to say, do not forget the Honda CB650R!!! I know it is a 650cc but ik makes almost as much HP as the suzuki and the specs don't lie! Love your content Yammie! Keep it up
Peak power is not that close, and power everywhere else is a mile apart. Why people want to say 100cc engine differences are essentially the same? Sounds like someone trying to flex the 650. Suzuki makes around 100 wheel HP after tuning. The CB650 can't get close to that, and offers 10 ft-lb less torque.
Got my GSXS750 for under 7500 new and I gotta be honest, it’s only held back by its lack of “modern” amenities. I love it but I’d like LEDs and a proper tach or a tft display. Other than that it performs really well for me and doesn’t have “run from the cops” power. What you said was spot on though, compared to most, it’s long in the tooth.
Yammie noobs is now officially the first channel that I’ve accidentally clicked on the time drop and was like “hell no, what about the intro” and went back to watch it in whole. Congrats bro you’ve come a long way over the years. I’ve loved being here for it!
For a rider who doesn't care much for all the new tech and wants a quick, smooth, and well mannered naked bike the Z900 is hard to beat. Honestly almost none of the succeeding bikes had something that made me say "I want this" Put the MT-09 in the Z900 price range by getting rid of the 6 axis imu and then id buy it. The street tripple R / RS seems great but I'm not completely sold on the reliability. Obviously this speaks about my style. I like simple, smooth, torque motorcycles. and owning a FJR 1300 known for being one of the smoothest bikes. I think the Z900 engine is even smoother.
Hey Yam... just a shout out to you.. I'm 61 and bought a street bike after 40 years of not riding anything. I raced motocross as a youngster but due to the wife and kids, put the riding on hold for a while! lol... I bought a used Triumph T-120 and have been having the time of my life.. ALL thanks to you. I'm cruising Ozark backroads (probably the best riding in America!) and wishing for a ride with you.. Yea... probably not happening! But, thanks anyway!
I’ve recently picked up a 2018 Suzuki GSX-S750 as my first motorcycle for 5 Grand, and it is an absolute beast of a bike in terms of value and usable power. I think this motorcycle should definitely be higher up in the list, considerately.
@@usernameunavoidable It's my 5th bike. I still have a 1000cc sports tourer. I've had a 1500cc cruiser, and a 900cc cruiser. But it's my favorite bike hands down. My only inline 4 ever. I love the power delivery. And it's not an insanely torquay like my Ducati ST2. It just spins the tire and drifts everywhere. Perfect balanced in all areas. Great price. I'd by another 1 if this 1 was paid off.
This list is uh….hmmmm u past up on the Monster for price when it’s actually 5grand cheaper the street fighter V2 …cost about the same as the speed triple only looks 10x better ..idk yam think u fumbled this one
Wrong , the Street Triple's rider-aid package gets some significant updates for 2024. A brand-new Optimized Cornering ABS system is anchored by a new ABS modulator with an integrated six-axis IMU and also regarding the HP you are completely off
I will place the Street Triple RS on 2nd position and Duke to 3rd and Street Triple R on 4th. But MT 09 is yes a Complete motorcycle for what we are paying .
Good review Yammie. However, I feel when you consider the power to weight ratio and the refined engine, Triumph Street Triple should top the list. Also the Triumph engine is the one choosen in Moto2GP . This is my view and not contesting your review at all.
The street triple R is literally cheaper msrp than the base mt09 and comes with brembos, steel braided lines, and better suspension. Sure yamaha has more tech but can't beat the price of the street triple r for the components it has. If you wanna go head to head mt09 SP and Street triple Rs they paint a similar story with the rs having slightly better finish and better components.
Okay so first of all, the Street Triple has a 6 axis IMU and up and down QS. The Z900 isn't nearly as bad as you stated. When the ECU is flashed on it, it's an amazing bike and feels like a naked ZX10R with the top rev range cut off. It's much faster than the MT09 as well. Some other bikes you ranked, you hadn't even ridden. How can you rank a bike if you haven't even ridden it? This is an irresponsible video and it makes me wonder if you aren't paid off by Yamaha to spout a lot of these inaccuracies while ragging on their main competitor, Kawasaki.
@@T418HSE MT-09 deserves top due to features, cost, model maturity, engine charisma. Z900 should be no less than 1 or 2 spots beneath it due to cost, engine power, chassis poise and stability, value for money. Seriously, when a company makes something so incredible tractable why in the world do people think a computer needs a billion digits to intercept human control to make everything "safer"? It's incredibly easy to manage throttle and power on the Z900. It just does what you ask. It can be made to be more charismatic with an exhaust and tune, dropping 14 pounds and gaining about 10-12 horsepower, and only increased control due to tuning. If it handles heavy, there's always the same aftermarket as the other brands for lighter wheels, better brake MS, anything else you want to change. It's a mature model and deserves more thought, less biased stupid attitude that refuses to get close to it for fear of getting some kind of disease.
The only two I would consider are the: 1) MT-09 and the 2) Suzuki GSX-S750. Both offer fantastic bang-for-the-buck, stellar reliability and great power plants. The other bikes are too pricey or too ugly.
Dude, you quoted almost ALL the wrong specs for the Street Triple R/RS. You're quoting the last model. The new one does have a six-axis IMU and cornering ABS, 128 HP (RS) and 118 HP (R), both make 59 ft. lbs. of torque at peak. The base Duke 990 and the Panagale V2 are hardly "middleweights" (except in racing with performance balancing rules)-- certainly not by price. With the tech pack the base Duke 990 is significantly more expensive than all of these bikes...except the Panagale V2. You shafted the Monster, which is still too pricey but better than the BMW. For value for performance/equipment, the new MT-09 probably takes the cake (if it handles close to the KTM/Triumph/Aprilia). Not perfect, but the most bang for the buck.
My 3rd motorcycle that I have now is a Honda CB919 (CB900f). It’s a naked bike and makes between 100-110 horsepower. It’s got a lot of power on the low end, handles great, and is great for street/city riding. I honestly think this might be my favorite bike out of all the bikes I’ve bought !
Suzuki is ancient technology. The Z series has a seat designed for riders without a phallus. Ducati Streetfighter V2 is the GOAT but who wants to spend the dosh. BMW? Buy the Ducati. The Aprillia Tuono is a solid option but. The Street Triple is the rational choice. The 2024 KTM Duke 990 has engine problems if the Indian Chapris are the be believed(hell you might s'well just bought a cfmoto and saved some money). MT-09 is a good choice but Yamaha is gonna be the next Suzuki with how little they innovate between gens.
Yammie, the Street Triple R has lean sensitive electronics since the 2023 update...the RS has it aswell! Quickshifter also comes as standard on both models.
@@TheDarkness_92 Oh, that's interesting, didn't know that. So now I have to decide between the MT-09 and RS since they both feature quick shifter and cruise, thanks for the info
@@Lord_C0mmander I already tried both 23 models, both amazing bikes. But they really have different personalities imo. You can feel race derived dna with the Triumph, you hit corners so precise, the brakes are phenomenal and also the Suspension is on point... So for faster and more commited riding take the Streety 100% If you love the torquey punch and the more hooligan behaviour of the MT-09 I get it too... It is also very addicting 😂 just try them both, it really depends what you are looking for ✌️
I think stating the weights here for these bikes would be very important. I have a Tuono 660 Factory and it is the lightest of them all, racing frame, Brembo Brakes, and the Olin Suspension. Don't waste your money on buying more CC's. The equivalent Triumph is almost $3,000 more. The 660 is so fast that owners joke about 'what speed were you going when you finally put it in 6th gear'. It's also the best handling bike you can get.
The 2023/2024 STR is the #1 middle-weight naked. Yammie, as others have mentioned, the STR has a great rider aid package, including 6-axis IMU, ride by wire, quick shifter, cornering ABS, cornering traction control, wheelie control, and five rider modes. Furthermore, it also has optional cruise control, heated grips, and a Bluetooth module, w/turn-by-turn navigation. Not to mention Brembo brakes (Stylema front), and fully adjustable suspension (Ohlins rear). Would this change your ranking? It should.
@@jeffwertz2953 also, MV Agusta F3 & Triumph Trident 660 (I own one since 2021 April) & Street Triple 765 … are all conventional inline 3 … but the only genuine Crossplane Triples are the new Tiger 900 & 1200 with T-plane Crank 1-3-2
Honestly, the one I think that should’ve been on this list is a Honda CB 1000 R. I realize it’s somewhat considered a leader bike, but based on the price and horsepower it put out still I feel like it would rank with the rest of these bikes.
Same, was my 1st too. Now a 23' MT-09SP. Love triples and the 09 is just a mean bitch! I love the aggressive nature of it and absolutely addicted to the torque. The acceleration is just bliss!
Yammie, you must have looked on the specs of old Street triples. New ones are more powerfull, have 6-axis IME, lean-sensitive ABS, TC, whelle-control, quickshifter and they are cheaper now than 2022 models
The z900 is such an underrated motorcycle. I have ridden an MT-10 and an MT-09. Neither of those bikes compared to the feel of the z900 to me. Maybe I'm crazy 😂.
Just noticed something. Yammie, did you break your nose at some point? It's not centered. Z900 badly needs updated. HOWEVER, it has one of the best inline-4 engines made in terms of broad torque, butter smoothness (no tingles at any RPM), and not being very high strung it should last forever. Tuned, a solid 125-128 hp at the wheel. It's stout. Chassis had a lot more confidence in feedback and stability than the MT-09 has had until the MT's '21 update.
Absolutely all the motorcycles in this category are light years ahead of bikes only a few years back. Once again however if you want near total reliability and good dealership plus parts support the Japanese big four is your best bet. I have a 2022 MT09 that pushes all my buttons. I would buy it again without any hesitation because in the overall price, quality and the riding experience. I have owned bikes from just about all these brands over the past 60 years. I always have fantastic experiences and results from the Japanese big four.
One and three need to be swapped. Especially if youre track focused. Your ranking of first may be cheaper but lacks power, weight, and suspension. Even the sp version only carries the base ohlins suspension compared to the Great suspension and frames of 2nd and third place. Tried not to give any spoilers incase anyone hasnt gotten that far. I think with time though second place will win especially when the R version is released
The Suzuki 1000 Gsxs naked is the bomb value for money, can't go wrong with the K8 infamous engine with Electronics at my level and ready for transformation with Vodoo huge pipes plus a DNA air filter... next many ECU program in all levels needed 💥
Got the 2022 gsx s750 as my first bike. Full yoshi r11, 110hp at the wheel 55 torque on the dyno... third season on it and the soundtrack still puts a smile on my face every ride. Will be moving on to tuono v4 1100 factory... pretty soon because of the v2s that bike will be considered a middle weight as well!😂
Crazy u put the z so low. It’s a great bike. Plenty of power and has no problem hanging the tire in 3rd gear. Eats mt09s. You should throw in there Yamahas fragile frame that many owners have had problems with. The street triples headlight looks like they took the fairing off the sport bike and said yup these ugly things will do.
When it comes to the Duke 990 and new Yamaha MT-09, if you look at the reviews online, the Yamaha almost always has way more video views than the Duke 990 does, even if the Yamaha videos are more recent. No joke, check out all the current reviews of these bike and compare the views by channel. I think people are put off by the duke simply because of 1) price 2) demo mode and 3) reliability. The new Yamaha MT-09 is rightly in first place.
Boys this is very dangerous. Don’t listen to someone that days a 100+hp bike is a middleweight. This is the cause for “middle” riders to die. As an experimented rider (20+ years riding) a middleweight bike is 40-95hp. Everything more than that is a BIG BIKE not suitable for a rider with little or “middle” experience. I ride 70-90hp bikes and don’t need more than that for the road. You are going to die on a bigger bike, fact.
If you’re already on the Triumph train take a look at the Street Triple 765RS, he got the information wrong anyway. It does in fact have a six axis IMU and makes more power than he stated, about 130hp.
I would put the BMW last, then the Ducati. I don't care for either one. I like the Z900 and that Suzuki, as nice and well. Not into the Aprilia at all. No Triumphs for me at all. Ugly lights. MT09, eh. I would take the Kawasaki Z900 over the MT09. I think it's more of a purist motorcycle. I do like that KTM too.
In brazil we don’t get half of these models unfortunately.. i have a 2023 Z900 and my father has a 2023 gsxs 750. Both really good bikes in my opinion. I would really love to have a mt09, but we are 2 models behind you in US and that just sucks. I do understand what you say about the Z900 just being a mid chassis with a huge engine in it, but I gotta say, I just love this bike in almost every aspect (aside from its ridiculous weight) cheers yammie
Great video. For an interstate ready, every day, get to work bike, i think that Suzuki 750 would be hard to beat, Kind of yesteryear but in a good way. Just keep it fed with premium gas and change the oil and air filter regularly and drive it till it dies. But I get the ratings. I am very happy to see the MT-09 at the top. What a samurai sword hath Yamaha wrought.
Yammie just loathes inline-4 engines. It became popular to diss on them after about 15 years ago with all the motojournalists rubbing off on each other. Inline-4 engines were crushing everything in motorcycles during the 70's and 80's. Today, the most powerful engines being made are still inline-4 flat-plane engines. Personally I appreciate the sounds a lot of different engines make, I prefer some more than others but I still appreciate the sounds.
A few thoughts about "class" 1) price is always a factor. 2) value is always a factor. Mt-09 are pretty much at the top with features/price/reliability KTM - naw dog, I want a reliable non-money pit ( just like bmw Speed triple - it's pretty good, but as much as mt09 Aprilia- get real, so many better motorcycles for less , mt-09, xsr900, zx6r and probably gsxs1000, gsxr600. Bmw .... Didn't know it existed what does that say. Ducati? 18k come on brah Z900 can be found new for 9k Gsxs750 can be found new for 7.5k These bikes are not all in the same class....
I think you are hyping up the MT-09 just a little, it is a fantastic bike. But you did not say anything about the terrible display like you did on the triumph's. Might not agree with the list but good hearing other thoughts to :)
Not really considering anything in the top half of the list, but close. I'm seriously considering the MT09 in its much more aesthetically pleasing XSR900 disguise. Once I save up enough, it's going to be tough for me to not pull the trigger to get one.
I have a 2024 street triple r and came from the trident 660. I was debating about getting the RS but I've heard multiple reviewers say that they prefer the R's tft display rather than the RS. The best way I can put it is R is better for more street use so if you don't go to the track don't bother with the RS BUT if you go to the track often the RS I'd recommend. I've sat on a KTM 890 at the dealer when debating about a new bike and I felt that the street triple was more comfortable for me and the KTM kinda just felt cheap to me? Idk it was a weird feeling when comparing to to a street triple. (Perhaps that's the triumph bias speaking). I'd say the closest competitors is the MT09's and street triple's.
The new Duke 990 feels even cheaper. I sat on one and the switchgear felt super rubbery and almost broken. Little to no feedback even without gloves. My 390 Adventure has better switchgear!
Yep, I should’ve got an mt09 or mt10! I got a V4s just because the all the big makes and some in this category have so much power you need full fairings to slice through the wind! I have a Diavel also and that’s comfortable enough to deal with the wind!! I wouldn’t recommend having only anything V4 by its self! Maybe a tuono V4 could get the job done, but here we go all the power just get the panigale🤷♂️ Tuonois the sensible option, but what’s sensible about any 200 hp V4 motorcycle??🤯
I have a Tuono 660 and I love it. My girlfriend has a GSX-S750 and it is also very cool. You di see the difference between the parallel twin and the in-line 4, different experience but both very cool.
Noob here. It seems the Ducati Streetfighter V2 doesn't belong in this category (horsepower and price), yet, Monster DOES belong in this category, yet it was brushed over. Why?
Yeah sorry but considering the 990 is roughly the same price as the Triumph yet you still end up paying for the extras six months later definitely puts it at 3rd on this list IMHO. And yes the MT09 is an excellent hooligan bike and a pretty great all rounder the RS is simply the better all rounder. Definitely my choice of the bunch and having ridden all but the 990 it's definitely the one I'd rather own. Which is why I'm getting one.
Weird to think that a 900cc bike could be considered an intermediate middleweight motorcycle. A 750cc. machine, to me, would be the upper end of middleweight.
While I agree with you about the MT09 (although I think you should have mentioned the XSR 900 and the coming R9), I really can't get behind a middleweight Not being somewhere between 599 cc's and 849 cc's. Don't care how the manufacturers try to wedge them in, and 899 cc to 999 cc bike is not a little weight. Just because the manufacturers make a bigger bike doesn't make one slightly smaller a middleweight. Case in point, Yamaha makes the FJR 1300 which does not make the R1 a middleweight. .... And, Yamaha makes the R7/MT07 and that is their true middleweight bike.
I ordered the MT 09 tech black gen 4 and it will arrive this month. the only downside with a new model is waiting for parts like an exhaust. I'm not a fan of what Yamaha is offering at the moment. I'm more of a fan of sc project str-1.😁
The stock exhaust sounds pretty decent, just too corked up, heavy, and ugly. Replaced mine with a Black Widow low mount on my 23'. Looks pretty sharp but with both DB killers out, its F'n loud.
the price is one reason I wouldn't go for the Ducati... the other is the ever present, cost to service & repair. It's what puts Suzuki cars ahead of all the other small cars on the market, and also what puts Suzuki bikes ahead of Hondas & Yamahas, as well as every European bike on the market (no I would never buy a BMW or Mercedes Benz car either... the ability of the ports to have cars coming in to the country means that it would take 15 years to replace every car on the road, and European cars are designed to fail after just 5 years, and have a maximum life expectancy of 10 years. and replacement parts are not stored in the country, they have to be specially ordered from Germany at great expense... these are the factor I look into before purchasing anything!
I'm getting really, really old. I remember when a 750 was a big bike and the only things that boasted 100+hp was considered a cutting edge superbike.
To be fair, even low tier cars have become faster and more capable
modern euro5 bikes ride nothing like numbers they're boasting. They're dead until almost WOT and torque range is awful in a lot of them.
One of the last modern bikes I rode was Panigale v2, 155 hp from 955cc v2. It's dead until 7.5k rpm and than for a brief 2k you have some sort of a power and than it dead again.
Same same.
Not sure why, but I’m drawn to the Suzuki Katana. Maybe because I had a GS1150 back in the day. Just love the sound of a big inline 4.
@@PrestoninParadisus You're not wrong.
You can get in some pretty "boring" cars, these days, and be surprised with the performance, that's for sure.
Yamm, you are mixing the specs of Triumphs with older models. Starting from 2023 the new model has been refreshed and better than ever. You should try it asap.
@moto022, you are correct. The new version does have a 6 axis IMU with lean sensitive traction control, lean sensitive ABS, a few more ponies, plus up & down quickshifter as standard.
Meh boring bike
@@er98ah 🤣
To be honest I think the Honda CB650R should be considered a middle weight bike aswell. And that is an awesome machine. Looks- and specs wise!🔥
Not where he is. Honda hates north America.
I agree. Eats alot of bikes from the list above and looks better than most.
I love mine. Great for a competent beginner and I dont see myself getting bored with it for a long while.
Check your info Yammie ...Both the ST R and the RS have rider modes, QS / Blipper, and a six axis IMU and ST RS makes 128HP. Sounds like you're pulling data from the older models.
st rs hands down the best bike in the class. he puts it third while forgetting half of it's features.
Yes, he also fcked up the hp data for the mt09
You should make a video
@@TobytuneNinja You would think you check the facts BEFORE making the video. 😁
@@stoodz Right, doesn't seem fair. But I bought the right one. Cosmic yellow ST RS😉
Love my 22 Street Triple R, and oddly enought, the analog tach is one of my favorite things about the bike.
I'm on my 3rd Streetie. I wouldn't call the TFT on the RS an upgrade. It's unreadable, illegible, almost useless... you're lucky you're happy with one on the R. 🙂I joke though, that I'd buy the ST even if it didn't have a dash.
Loved my Speed 4. 4 cylinder and with the TT600 map,103Hp.Only problem is it shared the TT600 mechanic problems.😢
LOVE the analog tach on my 2014 SP3R. Just saying.
Analog Tachs are AWESOME!
@Jmpaul26 the shift light in the tach is also a really cool feature.
Triumph Street Triple 2024 got 6 axis IMU. R model makes 120ps and RS makes 130ps power.
yea, lazy research on this one by mr yam
Honda still makes the CB650 with an inline 4....it is a sweet machine.
The CB650 is beautiful imo
I’m here to say that this as well. But I couldn’t find a 2024 model online so maybe they stopped producing it
@@drewben1231na, still available brand new as a 2024 model. He just hates Honda. Idk why
He classifies 'middle weight' at the start of the video as: 100+hp, 700cc-997cc... so the cb650r misses out on this list. Which is a bummer, because it's such an awesome bike!
Then I guess he should have also left the Tuono 660 out
IMO, The Z900 is an awesome bike. Personally, I love inline 4's but what makes this bike awesome is that it has the rider aids you need without having to much while making good continuous power/ torque throughout the rev range
Love my 2020 z900
Yammie has been hating on the z900 since he rode it I have had one for 3 years and I love it. I don’t have the pleasure of riding any bike I want so hard to say how it stacks up to the others but 125hp for less than 10k is hard to say it’s bad value for money
Plus they are out there (2020+ low miles ) for like 6k
@@jakescheid9602he’s a clown for hating on the z900 . He put some ugly ass expensive bmw that makes 95 hp in front of it and cost double. This guys opinion is not valid😂
Z900 best motor, clutch, and tranny. You want handling get the SE Ohlins version. I’ve had a 2017 and 2021.
Just ordered the new MT-09. can’t wait for June ❤
I did the same thing today, brother I know how you feel
@@teodorpanic8098that makes 3 of us 😎 😂
Me too, expected in June too! I want to hibernate to the arrival day 😂
Ordered mine in January was supposed to be delivered in april but delayed to June didn´t bother me, was expecting the delay actually!
Does anybody know if a short plate holder fits the new MT-09 like the older one?
I need that ugly stock holder to change asap!
This list is on point Papa Yam!
Just a note, sharing the 1st spot with MT-09, the xsr900 should be there, that also got a slight update for the 2024 year and is literally the same thing underneath. Brilliant machines, good Job Yamaha
I love my inline 4 CARBURATED sportbike. No rider aids, TFT display, just beautiful unrestricted planet killing vibes!😅
So many younger YT reviewers are obsessed with all the tech and modes. I don't get it. I ride to get away from all that sh*t.
Yeah... I love my old girl too, but I sure wish I had traction control when it's a fresh rain. I had a really scary moment recently
I use my Vmax to give hippies nightmares!
Amen
You like carburetors? With all the ultra low maintenance FI systems out there?
Bro…how have you not ridden the Duke series bikes? You got some homework! 790, 890, 990 and especially 890 duke R.
Give’em a shot/review etc…
890R owner here…yes they are incredible.
Ok, so the Z900 has more power and costs less than almost all of these other bikes, but it comes in at #7 out of 8. I live with one and unless you plan on taking it to a track (which you absolutely could do) it is fantastic. I have ridden it for over 2 hours straight (from Gulfport, MS to Baton Rouge, LA) on one tank of gas at over 40 mpg and never had any issues with comfort. It is amazing that all of these lesser bikes are rated so high. I know it is just your opinion, but I believe you may think differently if you rode a Z for a while.
I found it boring
I swapped it for a street triple the z900 I just found bland
Yammie just hates the Z900 and is always bashing it.
@@BOB24502 for reliability though the z900 was excellent
It's really a great bike, I love it.. unfortunately the middleweight category is extremely competitive and the Z900 just lacks some of the latest features offered by the competition and is also a bit heavier than most.
I feel similarly about the gsxs750, which I do own. Looking at the performance-to-price ratio many of the bikes have it’s hard to beat either of them. And regarding the gsxs specifically, pretty much everyone I know that owns one can’t figure out why it gets so overlooked.
About the new suzuki GSX-S750 being one of the only new 4 inline nakeds you can buy. I just want to say, do not forget the Honda CB650R!!! I know it is a 650cc but ik makes almost as much HP as the suzuki and the specs don't lie!
Love your content Yammie! Keep it up
Just gotta look the other way on that 35 lbs of torque on the Honda ( and no 2024 cbr650 twins for north America)
Peak power is not that close, and power everywhere else is a mile apart. Why people want to say 100cc engine differences are essentially the same? Sounds like someone trying to flex the 650. Suzuki makes around 100 wheel HP after tuning. The CB650 can't get close to that, and offers 10 ft-lb less torque.
I have a 2018 MT09 and I absolutely LOVE it. ill never get rid of it and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a good fun bike
Got my GSXS750 for under 7500 new and I gotta be honest, it’s only held back by its lack of “modern” amenities. I love it but I’d like LEDs and a proper tach or a tft display. Other than that it performs really well for me and doesn’t have “run from the cops” power.
What you said was spot on though, compared to most, it’s long in the tooth.
Yammie noobs is now officially the first channel that I’ve accidentally clicked on the time drop and was like “hell no, what about the intro” and went back to watch it in whole. Congrats bro you’ve come a long way over the years. I’ve loved being here for it!
you should definitely make a video on the svartpilen 801 when you can bro! would be super dope
For a rider who doesn't care much for all the new tech and wants a quick, smooth, and well mannered naked bike the Z900 is hard to beat. Honestly almost none of the succeeding bikes had something that made me say "I want this" Put the MT-09 in the Z900 price range by getting rid of the 6 axis imu and then id buy it. The street tripple R / RS seems great but I'm not completely sold on the reliability.
Obviously this speaks about my style. I like simple, smooth, torque motorcycles. and owning a FJR 1300 known for being one of the smoothest bikes. I think the Z900 engine is even smoother.
BMW R1250R 💪
@@seansixfive no
Hey Yam... just a shout out to you.. I'm 61 and bought a street bike after 40 years of not riding anything. I raced motocross as a youngster but due to the wife and kids, put the riding on hold for a while! lol... I bought a used Triumph T-120 and have been having the time of my life.. ALL thanks to you. I'm cruising Ozark backroads (probably the best riding in America!) and wishing for a ride with you.. Yea... probably not happening! But, thanks anyway!
I’ve recently picked up a 2018 Suzuki GSX-S750 as my first motorcycle for 5 Grand, and it is an absolute beast of a bike in terms of value and usable power. I think this motorcycle should definitely be higher up in the list, considerately.
I have the 2015. Yam always hates on this bike. Best bang for you buck naked bike out there.
two words: first motorcycle - once you get more experience riding and on more bikes, some of that shine will wear off
@@usernameunavoidable It's my 5th bike. I still have a 1000cc sports tourer. I've had a 1500cc cruiser, and a 900cc cruiser. But it's my favorite bike hands down. My only inline 4 ever. I love the power delivery. And it's not an insanely torquay like my Ducati ST2. It just spins the tire and drifts everywhere. Perfect balanced in all areas. Great price. I'd by another 1 if this 1 was paid off.
This list is uh….hmmmm u past up on the Monster for price when it’s actually 5grand cheaper the street fighter V2 …cost about the same as the speed triple only looks 10x better ..idk yam think u fumbled this one
Exactly!
Wrong , the Street Triple's rider-aid package gets some significant updates for 2024. A brand-new Optimized Cornering ABS system is anchored by a new ABS modulator with an integrated six-axis IMU and also regarding the HP you are completely off
He also got the power outputs wrong. For the RS, it's 128 HP, not 121.
RS has the IMU. Does the R?
@@exothermal.sprocket Both RS and R have IMU
@@ImePrezime-fs3vq Ah. Looks like it took until 2024 for that to happen.
I will place the Street Triple RS on 2nd position and Duke to 3rd and Street Triple R on 4th. But MT 09 is yes a Complete motorcycle for what we are paying .
Good review Yammie. However, I feel when you consider the power to weight ratio and the refined engine, Triumph Street Triple should top the list. Also the Triumph engine is the one choosen in Moto2GP .
This is my view and not contesting your review at all.
The street triple R is literally cheaper msrp than the base mt09 and comes with brembos, steel braided lines, and better suspension. Sure yamaha has more tech but can't beat the price of the street triple r for the components it has. If you wanna go head to head mt09 SP and Street triple Rs they paint a similar story with the rs having slightly better finish and better components.
Great video!! Most definitely moving up to an intermediate Naked in early 2025 when I have 20K+ miles on my little beginner bike.
Okay so first of all, the Street Triple has a 6 axis IMU and up and down QS. The Z900 isn't nearly as bad as you stated. When the ECU is flashed on it, it's an amazing bike and feels like a naked ZX10R with the top rev range cut off. It's much faster than the MT09 as well. Some other bikes you ranked, you hadn't even ridden. How can you rank a bike if you haven't even ridden it? This is an irresponsible video and it makes me wonder if you aren't paid off by Yamaha to spout a lot of these inaccuracies while ragging on their main competitor, Kawasaki.
I love my 2022 Z900 SE
Same. Nimble, complete and awesome looking bike. You know the review is biased when you see the mt09 in first place and z900 second to last.
@@T418HSE Spec sheet comparison. It's like playing top trumps :D
@@T418HSE MT-09 deserves top due to features, cost, model maturity, engine charisma.
Z900 should be no less than 1 or 2 spots beneath it due to cost, engine power, chassis poise and stability, value for money. Seriously, when a company makes something so incredible tractable why in the world do people think a computer needs a billion digits to intercept human control to make everything "safer"? It's incredibly easy to manage throttle and power on the Z900. It just does what you ask. It can be made to be more charismatic with an exhaust and tune, dropping 14 pounds and gaining about 10-12 horsepower, and only increased control due to tuning. If it handles heavy, there's always the same aftermarket as the other brands for lighter wheels, better brake MS, anything else you want to change. It's a mature model and deserves more thought, less biased stupid attitude that refuses to get close to it for fear of getting some kind of disease.
My CFMOTO CLX 700 sport was a good buy and good deal for the money.
The only two I would consider are the: 1) MT-09 and the 2) Suzuki GSX-S750. Both offer fantastic bang-for-the-buck, stellar reliability and great power plants. The other bikes are too pricey or too ugly.
Dude, you quoted almost ALL the wrong specs for the Street Triple R/RS. You're quoting the last model. The new one does have a six-axis IMU and cornering ABS, 128 HP (RS) and 118 HP (R), both make 59 ft. lbs. of torque at peak.
The base Duke 990 and the Panagale V2 are hardly "middleweights" (except in racing with performance balancing rules)-- certainly not by price. With the tech pack the base Duke 990 is significantly more expensive than all of these bikes...except the Panagale V2. You shafted the Monster, which is still too pricey but better than the BMW.
For value for performance/equipment, the new MT-09 probably takes the cake (if it handles close to the KTM/Triumph/Aprilia). Not perfect, but the most bang for the buck.
My 3rd motorcycle that I have now is a Honda CB919 (CB900f). It’s a naked bike and makes between 100-110 horsepower. It’s got a lot of power on the low end, handles great, and is great for street/city riding. I honestly think this might be my favorite bike out of all the bikes I’ve bought !
Suzuki is ancient technology. The Z series has a seat designed for riders without a phallus. Ducati Streetfighter V2 is the GOAT but who wants to spend the dosh. BMW? Buy the Ducati. The Aprillia Tuono is a solid option but. The Street Triple is the rational choice. The 2024 KTM Duke 990 has engine problems if the Indian Chapris are the be believed(hell you might s'well just bought a cfmoto and saved some money). MT-09 is a good choice but Yamaha is gonna be the next Suzuki with how little they innovate between gens.
Yamaha hit the sweet spot with the MT09 and when it is almost perfect what do you change???
Yammie, the Street Triple R has lean sensitive electronics since the 2023 update...the RS has it aswell! Quickshifter also comes as standard on both models.
Quick shifter is awesome, but no cruise control?
@@Lord_C0mmander you can get cruise control as an extra in europe at least, but only for the RS trim
@@TheDarkness_92 Oh, that's interesting, didn't know that. So now I have to decide between the MT-09 and RS since they both feature quick shifter and cruise, thanks for the info
@@Lord_C0mmander I already tried both 23 models, both amazing bikes. But they really have different personalities imo. You can feel race derived dna with the Triumph, you hit corners so precise, the brakes are phenomenal and also the Suspension is on point... So for faster and more commited riding take the Streety 100%
If you love the torquey punch and the more hooligan behaviour of the MT-09 I get it too... It is also very addicting 😂 just try them both, it really depends what you are looking for ✌️
made my license on the F900R (I think 2023) super nice! bike! perfect for beginners :D
I think stating the weights here for these bikes would be very important. I have a Tuono 660 Factory and it is the lightest of them all, racing frame, Brembo Brakes, and the Olin Suspension. Don't waste your money on buying more CC's. The equivalent Triumph is almost $3,000 more. The 660 is so fast that owners joke about 'what speed were you going when you finally put it in 6th gear'. It's also the best handling bike you can get.
MT09 I've had mine for 9 months now... awesome and thrilling street bike 😁
The 2023/2024 STR is the #1 middle-weight naked. Yammie, as others have mentioned, the STR has a great rider aid package, including 6-axis IMU, ride by wire, quick shifter, cornering ABS, cornering traction control, wheelie control, and five rider modes. Furthermore, it also has optional cruise control, heated grips, and a Bluetooth module, w/turn-by-turn navigation. Not to mention Brembo brakes (Stylema front), and fully adjustable suspension (Ohlins rear). Would this change your ranking? It should.
Ducati Monster is amazing, I would say it's the best offering in this class.
MT-09 doesn't have an actual CP3 (cross-plane Triple) Engine having 1-3-2 Firing Order, in fact, it's a regular inline 3 with FiRiNG ORDeR 1-2-3
No, it is considered cross plane but so are almost ever other triple ever made.
@@jeffwertz2953 also, MV Agusta F3 & Triumph Trident 660 (I own one since 2021 April) & Street Triple 765 … are all conventional inline 3 … but the only genuine Crossplane Triples are the new Tiger 900 & 1200 with T-plane Crank 1-3-2
Streety all the way. Silky smooth. The RS is the way to go
Z900 is silky smooth. Streety is tingly. People say it buzzes more than the MT-09.
According to @fortnine , inline 4 is the best engine of all engines mentioned here, in the video where he compares engines..delivers more top end too
Cb650 should be considered a middleweight machine in my opinion
Even more so if the Tuono has been mentioned
I suspect anything under 100HP is classed as a "beginner bike" in the opinion of the narrator.
@@user-rb3jw7yj9odidn’t the Tuono make 99hp? I’m pretty sure the CB650R makes like 93/94hp so it’s splitting hairs 🤷
Honestly, the one I think that should’ve been on this list is a Honda CB 1000 R. I realize it’s somewhat considered a leader bike, but based on the price and horsepower it put out still I feel like it would rank with the rest of these bikes.
I recently got a used 2015 FZ09 as my first bike, it aint for the weak but its been fun af so far.
Same, was my 1st too. Now a 23' MT-09SP. Love triples and the 09 is just a mean bitch! I love the aggressive nature of it and absolutely addicted to the torque. The acceleration is just bliss!
Yammie, you must have looked on the specs of old Street triples. New ones are more powerfull, have 6-axis IME, lean-sensitive ABS, TC, whelle-control, quickshifter and they are cheaper now than 2022 models
If you put the same pro rider that isn't Yamaha biased on a Z900 & MT09 around a race track, I bet the Z900 would easily win.
Please do a review of the new 2024 MT09 papa yam, love the content btw!❤
🤮
This list lost credibility when you put the KTM over the Street Triple. You don't even have the correct numbers for the new Streets.
It lost credibility at the very beginning..
Love the STR character and handling!
Me with my fz09 hoping to see mt-09 near the top then hearing what yammie says about my old fz really makes me wanny try a new mt09
My old 15' had Stoltec MotoGP setup on it and it handled pretty well but still not as good as the 23' SP. It carves pretty well.
The z900 is such an underrated motorcycle. I have ridden an MT-10 and an MT-09. Neither of those bikes compared to the feel of the z900 to me. Maybe I'm crazy 😂.
The Inline 4 engine is the reason why I picked my z. Still in love with my first bike. ❤
Sat on one at the NEC last year and Yamaha nailed the 2024 MT09 in my opinion, and I ride a Suzuki!
The way the cb650r and xsr700 aren’t on this list is crazy
Just noticed something.
Yammie, did you break your nose at some point? It's not centered.
Z900 badly needs updated. HOWEVER, it has one of the best inline-4 engines made in terms of broad torque, butter smoothness (no tingles at any RPM), and not being very high strung it should last forever. Tuned, a solid 125-128 hp at the wheel. It's stout. Chassis had a lot more confidence in feedback and stability than the MT-09 has had until the MT's '21 update.
I ve got a 2007 Yamaha FZ6 N Version 2. Absolutely stunning bike. Also beautiful even after nearly 20 years 😊
Just curious how the suzuki 8s and honda hornet fitnin to this category.
If they don't pass the set power threshold, what about the honda cb?
Absolutely all the motorcycles in this category are light years ahead of bikes only a few years back. Once again however if you want near total reliability and good dealership plus parts support the Japanese big four is your best bet. I have a 2022 MT09 that pushes all my buttons. I would buy it again without any hesitation because in the overall price, quality and the riding experience. I have owned bikes from just about all these brands over the past 60 years. I always have fantastic experiences and results from the Japanese big four.
If I bring my GSXS750 would you do a ride review? I’m near you guys and I think you might fall in love with it!!!
One and three need to be swapped. Especially if youre track focused. Your ranking of first may be cheaper but lacks power, weight, and suspension. Even the sp version only carries the base ohlins suspension compared to the Great suspension and frames of 2nd and third place. Tried not to give any spoilers incase anyone hasnt gotten that far. I think with time though second place will win especially when the R version is released
The Suzuki 1000 Gsxs naked is the bomb value for money, can't go wrong with the K8 infamous engine with Electronics at my level and ready for transformation with Vodoo huge pipes plus a DNA air filter... next many ECU program in all levels needed 💥
Got the 2022 gsx s750 as my first bike. Full yoshi r11, 110hp at the wheel 55 torque on the dyno... third season on it and the soundtrack still puts a smile on my face every ride. Will be moving on to tuono v4 1100 factory... pretty soon because of the v2s that bike will be considered a middle weight as well!😂
Yamm! you forgot CFMOTO 800NK, it is a great contender, 100HP at a great price! KTM DNA!!!!
Crazy u put the z so low. It’s a great bike. Plenty of power and has no problem hanging the tire in 3rd gear. Eats mt09s. You should throw in there Yamahas fragile frame that many owners have had problems with. The street triples headlight looks like they took the fairing off the sport bike and said yup these ugly things will do.
When it comes to the Duke 990 and new Yamaha MT-09, if you look at the reviews online, the Yamaha almost always has way more video views than the Duke 990 does, even if the Yamaha videos are more recent. No joke, check out all the current reviews of these bike and compare the views by channel. I think people are put off by the duke simply because of 1) price 2) demo mode and 3) reliability.
The new Yamaha MT-09 is rightly in first place.
Boys this is very dangerous. Don’t listen to someone that days a 100+hp bike is a middleweight.
This is the cause for “middle” riders to die. As an experimented rider (20+ years riding) a middleweight bike is 40-95hp. Everything more than that is a BIG BIKE not suitable for a rider with little or “middle” experience.
I ride 70-90hp bikes and don’t need more than that for the road. You are going to die on a bigger bike, fact.
Waitin to get my 2024 390 duke shipped in ❤️
I'm on the list for a 2024 mt09 can't wait till they come in
We all knew the MT09 would be #1. The new one looks so sick, i wish i knew that was coming before i bought my XSR 900
Next video: Kawasaki Z900 - I was wrong! Sorry Kawasaki!
Just the title would be an awesome clickbait!
Nice video. As always. I’m a little butt-hurt. My 2012 Speed Triple is a baby compared to most of these bikes. Really looking at that KTM. THANKS!
If you’re already on the Triumph train take a look at the Street Triple 765RS, he got the information wrong anyway. It does in fact have a six axis IMU and makes more power than he stated, about 130hp.
As someone who fawns over triumphs regularly it’s weird you got so much wrong about the Striple.
I would put the BMW last, then the Ducati. I don't care for either one. I like the Z900 and that Suzuki, as nice and well. Not into the Aprilia at all. No Triumphs for me at all. Ugly lights. MT09, eh. I would take the Kawasaki Z900 over the MT09. I think it's more of a purist motorcycle. I do like that KTM too.
Z900 deserves to be a little higher almost on price alone. don’t sleep on that bike
There was a time when a KZ900 was the king of the hill,and a 400cc Honda hawk, was considered a middleweight motorcycle. My how times have changed
In brazil we don’t get half of these models unfortunately.. i have a 2023 Z900 and my father has a 2023 gsxs 750. Both really good bikes in my opinion. I would really love to have a mt09, but we are 2 models behind you in US and that just sucks. I do understand what you say about the Z900 just being a mid chassis with a huge engine in it, but I gotta say, I just love this bike in almost every aspect (aside from its ridiculous weight) cheers yammie
Get the gsx-s1000 for just over 11k and call it a day if you're in this market. Maybe the triple rs if you want something a touch sharper
Great video. For an interstate ready, every day, get to work bike, i think that Suzuki 750 would be hard to beat, Kind of yesteryear but in a good way. Just keep it fed with premium gas and change the oil and air filter regularly and drive it till it dies. But I get the ratings. I am very happy to see the MT-09 at the top. What a samurai sword hath Yamaha wrought.
As an rs660 owner, can confirm I am looking forward to trading up for a ktm 990 once the Evo version comes out next year
Yup, you were right in the end of the episode the Z900 deserves to be higher up the ladder 😊
Yammie just loathes inline-4 engines. It became popular to diss on them after about 15 years ago with all the motojournalists rubbing off on each other.
Inline-4 engines were crushing everything in motorcycles during the 70's and 80's. Today, the most powerful engines being made are still inline-4 flat-plane engines. Personally I appreciate the sounds a lot of different engines make, I prefer some more than others but I still appreciate the sounds.
A few thoughts about "class" 1) price is always a factor. 2) value is always a factor.
Mt-09 are pretty much at the top with features/price/reliability
KTM - naw dog, I want a reliable non-money pit ( just like bmw
Speed triple - it's pretty good, but as much as mt09
Aprilia- get real, so many better motorcycles for less , mt-09, xsr900, zx6r and probably gsxs1000, gsxr600.
Bmw .... Didn't know it existed what does that say.
Ducati? 18k come on brah
Z900 can be found new for 9k
Gsxs750 can be found new for 7.5k
These bikes are not all in the same class....
Was worried my bike wasn’t making it to the list but yammie gave us #1
I think you are hyping up the MT-09 just a little, it is a fantastic bike. But you did not say anything about the terrible display like you did on the triumph's. Might not agree with the list but good hearing other thoughts to :)
The display for this year is updated (just like the looks)
It's a much larger 5 inch display, new for this year. And the display is much more customizable than the previous displays.
Not really considering anything in the top half of the list, but close. I'm seriously considering the MT09 in its much more aesthetically pleasing XSR900 disguise. Once I save up enough, it's going to be tough for me to not pull the trigger to get one.
I see the CFMOTO 800nk got no love today😢
You really need to hop on a Duke 890 or 990. I think it will blow you away.
I have a 2024 street triple r and came from the trident 660. I was debating about getting the RS but I've heard multiple reviewers say that they prefer the R's tft display rather than the RS. The best way I can put it is R is better for more street use so if you don't go to the track don't bother with the RS BUT if you go to the track often the RS I'd recommend. I've sat on a KTM 890 at the dealer when debating about a new bike and I felt that the street triple was more comfortable for me and the KTM kinda just felt cheap to me? Idk it was a weird feeling when comparing to to a street triple. (Perhaps that's the triumph bias speaking). I'd say the closest competitors is the MT09's and street triple's.
The new Duke 990 feels even cheaper. I sat on one and the switchgear felt super rubbery and almost broken. Little to no feedback even without gloves. My 390 Adventure has better switchgear!
Yep, I should’ve got an mt09 or mt10! I got a V4s just because the all the big makes and some in this category have so much power you need full fairings to slice through the wind! I have a Diavel also and that’s comfortable enough to deal with the wind!! I wouldn’t recommend having only anything V4 by its self! Maybe a tuono V4 could get the job done, but here we go all the power just get the panigale🤷♂️ Tuonois the sensible option, but what’s sensible about any 200 hp V4 motorcycle??🤯
I'd get the XSR 900 instead of the MT09...
I have a Tuono 660 and I love it. My girlfriend has a GSX-S750 and it is also very cool. You di see the difference between the parallel twin and the in-line 4, different experience but both very cool.
If you want a retro style naked bike the XSR is pretty rad too.
Noob here. It seems the Ducati Streetfighter V2 doesn't belong in this category (horsepower and price), yet, Monster DOES belong in this category, yet it was brushed over. Why?
Yeah sorry but considering the 990 is roughly the same price as the Triumph yet you still end up paying for the extras six months later definitely puts it at 3rd on this list IMHO. And yes the MT09 is an excellent hooligan bike and a pretty great all rounder the RS is simply the better all rounder. Definitely my choice of the bunch and having ridden all but the 990 it's definitely the one I'd rather own. Which is why I'm getting one.
I thought the street R had the 6 axis IMU. Why are we not talking about the RS. It's still comparabl to the price of the 990 duke i think.
Weird to think that a 900cc bike could be considered an intermediate middleweight motorcycle. A 750cc. machine, to me, would be the upper end of middleweight.
While I agree with you about the MT09 (although I think you should have mentioned the XSR 900 and the coming R9), I really can't get behind a middleweight Not being somewhere between 599 cc's and 849 cc's. Don't care how the manufacturers try to wedge them in, and 899 cc to 999 cc bike is not a little weight. Just because the manufacturers make a bigger bike doesn't make one slightly smaller a middleweight.
Case in point, Yamaha makes the FJR 1300 which does not make the R1 a middleweight.
.... And, Yamaha makes the R7/MT07 and that is their true middleweight bike.
I ordered the MT 09 tech black gen 4 and it will arrive this month. the only downside with a new model is waiting for parts like an exhaust. I'm not a fan of what Yamaha is offering at the moment. I'm more of a fan of sc project str-1.😁
The stock exhaust sounds pretty decent, just too corked up, heavy, and ugly. Replaced mine with a Black Widow low mount on my 23'. Looks pretty sharp but with both DB killers out, its F'n loud.
the price is one reason I wouldn't go for the Ducati... the other is the ever present, cost to service & repair. It's what puts Suzuki cars ahead of all the other small cars on the market, and also what puts Suzuki bikes ahead of Hondas & Yamahas, as well as every European bike on the market (no I would never buy a BMW or Mercedes Benz car either... the ability of the ports to have cars coming in to the country means that it would take 15 years to replace every car on the road, and European cars are designed to fail after just 5 years, and have a maximum life expectancy of 10 years. and replacement parts are not stored in the country, they have to be specially ordered from Germany at great expense... these are the factor I look into before purchasing anything!