Honda vs Suzuki vs KTM vs Yamaha: which 2023 Parallel Twin wins?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- Which is the best twin-cylinder middleweight naked motorcycle for 2023?
This category has had a long-time King in the shape of the Yamaha MT-07 but for 2023 three others are snapping at its heels - do they have what it takes to steal the limelight?
BikeSocial's Michael Mann enlists John Milbank, Simon Hargreaves and Martin Fitz-Gibbons to test the #honda Hornet, #suzuki GSX-8S, #ktm 790 DUKE and #yamaha MT-07 back-to-back to see which is the winner.
Leave you comments, queries, thoughts or questions in the comments section below, or chat with us about this video at our Facebook Group, just search Bennetts BikeSocial.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
00:54 Riding montage
01:15 Context of the test
01:57 Price & PCP
05:57 Engine & Performance
20:21 Riding Position
24:57 Handling, Suspension & Weight
31:34 Brakes
33:50 Rider Aids & Gadgets
42:12 Build Quality
51:00 Economy
54:45 Conclusion
01:01:52 BikeSocial membership advert
01:02:11 Outtakes
Bike insurance due this month? We search our panel of insurers to find you our best price for the cover you need. Get a quote today at www.bennetts.co.uk/ or call us on 03444122171.
For exclusive offers on a massive range of bike kit and events, visit www.bikesocial.co.uk/join
We really hope you enjoyed this video, and all the others we do. Now why chat to us about it at our friendly Facebook group: / bikesocial
SUBSCRIBE FOR OTHER VIDEOS & UPDATES
th-cam.com/users/subscription_...
LET’S CONNECT!
Twitter ▻ / bennetts_bike
Facebook ▻ / bennettsbike
Instagram ▻ / bennetts_bike - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Picked my Suzuki 8 up a week ago after not owning a bike for 16 years I’ve 170 miles on her 2 up with my wife what a bike the low down power is unreal my previous bikes were 2007 r6,2003 cbr600rr, this Suzuki is perfect for me I plan on touring Scotland next year on her
Brilliant to hear! And welcome back to biking. Keep us posted about your travels. You could always share them via our Facebook group. Just search ‘Bennetts BikeSocial’
Ppl say you can find 10 more hp with retune and exhausted
@@Knockelheadyou can indeed. The exhaust is deeply restricting power. I think 90hp are possible with good exhaust system
Awesome choice 👍 mate
2 wheel dyno works is getting an extra 16hp out of the Suzuki
th-cam.com/video/smyP2W0zoBo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NH_t2TfToMrpjbDT
I understand the KTM winning but people won't buy them to me that GSX8S is the winner looks great lots of low down torque reliable shifter blipper good suspension clocks etc a bike you could live with whatever your skil level
Looks are subjective. I think the KTM looks better. Plus, the gsx8s has no top end. And I've heard that every review out there. No thanks. A more skilled rider wants that roaring top end
I think Suzuki is the best IMO. Most universal, reliable, with wide power train, this bike just want to go no matter what, and I've seen it's power curve, its magic how flat it is!
Ladies and gents, for the 4,000 people so far who've asked the same question... you're quite right, there were no Kawasaki, Triumph or Aprilia models included. You can probably tell that by the title. We deliberately chose the two main new parallel twins for 2023 (Honda and Suzuki), plus the KTM because it had been reintroduced for this year, is a parallel twin, and comes closest in the terms of spec and price. Then what better to include that the existing and long-term champ, the Yamaha. We talk about rivals in the film, and encouraged you to get involved, so thank you for doing so... and do keep it up, but don't keep saying the same thing: "No "!
This is by far the best comparison video I`ve seen this year. I love the fact that you guys talk about how each aspect of these bikes "feel" rather then sticking to just the spec sheets. Congrats!
Suzuki 8S well balanced bike 🤩🤩🤩 I ride it on daily basis
The one thing that rules out the KTM is the cam wear issue. Many of the 790s and 890s show disasterous cam wear at 10 to 20,000 miles. Like up to 2mm grooves in the cams. KTM are doing as little as possible as many bikes are 2+years old by the time this problem arrives.
Check ADV rider where this issue keeps coming up.
Thanks for the review guys, these multi bike shows are always a great watch and much appreciated.
Nice round up ... although I may be biased as I bought a new 790 Duke back in 2019 after having an MT07 for 14 months from new (after a list of older bikes over almost 20 years riding). The MT was the most modern bike I'd owned and was a load of fun for a while .. but it is still pretty basic and the limits can be found without pushing it too much. Stepping up to the 790 was a blast ... loads more power and torque, far more agile chassis and suspension, a whole suite of decent electronic toys to play with .. it just felt like a much more mature package. The MT is a cracking bike for sure, I don't regret owning one at all ... but the 790 is definitely in a higher league, as are the Honda and Suzuki.
How've you found reliability on it? MT owner for the last 2 years and scoping options atm. Happy to do some basic spannering but the reliability of the MT is a huge thing for me
@@drummerboy768 it's had a couple of annoying little issues like very very gentle fluid weeps (not enough to drip on the floor but enough to dribble down the side of the engine) that got sorted under warranty with revised seals / gaskets - and the rear shock developed a damping fault so was replaced for new also under warranty ... other than that it has been no more or less reliable than any other bike I've owned from any other manufacturer. It's only ever failed to start / been unrideable just once in 4 years due to the stock battery being a bit crap, gave it some charge and away we went. I'd happily own another KTM no worries.
What about the heat that comes from shifting gear ? Thank you !
This is grate the four of you together having a chat, more of these :))
Really happy the riding position was spoken about with various peoples heights and what not. Always gets missed. Gives people great information when a test ride is not always available
Once again I have to say, I love this style of. review, really digs into the nitty gritty of the bikes, and from different perspectives. Great stuff 😊
The Yamaha was too outdated / budge for me. KTM a little… too KTM (if you know what I mean). I tried the Honda - nice, very close, a little too ‘built-to-a-price’ and steering was a little too live - then tried the 8S - bingo, perfect. I’ve not looked back since - love my little Suzuki, fantastic bike. I get loads of nods out on the road and haven’t seen another one yet, so it feels special.
Also the Suzuki has another 10hp that can be tuned out with an ECU flash
Suzuki's are very reliable.
I feel like the 8s is super underrated, maybe due to the polarizing looks. I have an xsr which is basically a retro reskinned mt07, but I LOVE the way the 8s looks. Was definitely my second choice.
The MT07 very good l listen to myself when l ride
All.these 3.new.models are not good on Thai roads
Next
It is so good to watch 4 guys talk sense about motorcycles. I know all the terminology and appreciate the time you have put into making this film.
I just wouldn't have a parallel twin if it was free. I did win the NMM's 2018 Winter Raffle and just couldn't bare seeing it in my garage too long.
I am a single and four cylinder engine nut, two stroke and four.
All the best.
KTM duke 790 owner, chosen after reading a lot about it. Among other type of bikes, on this particular segment came from a Ducati monster 821, that had for 5 years after an initial sv650. About the duke, I really have to say it is a wonder of engineering. What an incredibly fun, easy, powerful machine. The amount of confidence it delivers, making you feel like you're a super skilled rider, is really amazing.
Is it a good choice for first bike?
This format works really well. More please!
An hour of pleasure.
And that doesn't happen often at my age, now.
Great to hear the great voices of modern motorcycling.
Ride safe, happy travels 👍
My 2019 Suzuki Katana is my best naked bike. Character, best Gixxer engine ever, easy maintain, reliable & best value for money and finally something so different to this lot.
just bought the 2024 suzuki gsx-8s. the katana was what i was also highly debating on getting, I just cant get past the two blocky rectangle headlights
@@baileyberry4370I'm still new to the motorcycle world, but my suzuki mechanic rightly said that if you ride many miles, a middleweight bike will be a lot cheaper to run.
the katana is weird looking, in my country almost 50% more expensive than 8s, heavier and more fuel demanding...mire is not always better for everyone. Horses for corses
This has to be the best review of these bikes, well done lads
But! When one actually OWNS one of these, what you DON'T want to do is spend too much time at a dealer or pay too much/wait too long for parts. That, for me, takes the KTM right off the list. That little bit you get from it would sour pretty damned quickly after a few unscheduled trips to the dealer. Truly great to see, though, every one of these would do it, and kudos to Suzuki!
Great review and they are all really nice bikes. The Suzuki is only €250 more than the Honda here in Ireland, the Ktm is €1,000 more. I think reliability has to be part of the decision and for me, you just know the Suzuki is going to be bullet proof. Don't think you can say that about the Ktm. The looks of the Honda doesn't do it any favours, the Mt still looks great. For me it's the Suzuki, every day of the week and twice on Sunday 😂😂
In new Zealand the Honda and Suzuki are the same price and the Honda quick shifter is NZ$800 fitted (stg400). The KTM is still coming. Will be NZ$3,000 more (stg1,500.)
i have a 2018 790 duke with 115,000km's and still sounds great.
@@MrKdr500 My valve train blew up after 33.000km, luckily at KTM you can extend the factory warranty every year which I did. The only thing now is I don't have a bike for the next 2 months.
@@BraapBanana_ every biker needs at least two bikes for that reason imo😎
Stay away from KTM, its fun but unreliable, as BraapBanana said, parts are hard to get and you'll wait long time to fix it here in Canada and USA, in Europe is different story!!
That Suzuki is a phenomenal package and looks the part too. Can't wait to see them de-restricted.
Biggest fuel injectors of the bunch. E.C.U. flashes should be fun.
@@moorepower13should be able to get 105hp if the old ktm 790 made that amount.
Really enjoyed this chat....appreciated all of your insights into these bikes. As a former owner of a gen1 MT07 got to admit that 2023 two parallel cylinder class has been really elevated with the other three newer bikes. Wish you had the Trident 660 over there as well for full comparison! Great talk 🎉
I've had 2 Ktm 790 Dukes, first one brand new in 2021, I returned under warranty to dealership after 300km, leaked oil from 3 different parts of cylinder head and second one they gave me I had since then, lasted until now at 5500km before same leak appeared and counter shaft leak. Very fun bike, rides like no other but never ever anymore! Out of warranty and prepare 2k$ to fix it!!
Thx for this information 🙏🏻
Thank you for this. Really good to hear the four of you, all actually knowing what you are talking about. Very interesting.
Super content as always fellas
Great review gentlemen! 😍
Enjoyed that, thank you guys.
Just did 50 miles on my Hornet in the POURING rain back from the dealer. The Hornet is an absolute delight to ride, and really easy to handle which was vital as this is my first bike after getting full licence. It's a lovely machine and I am very happy.
Now I just need some proper wet weather gear, this jacket wasn't as water proof as it's description made out!
Why does it always rain when you get a new bike….I have bought a bunch of new bikes in the past 10-15 years and almost every time I go with the sun shining and by the time you leave the dealer boom clouds on the ride home with a new bike and new tires 😳 both you don’t want to get wet🤦🏼♂️
Guess just england weather ? 🤷
This was a good one, i enjoyed it a lot..
Thanks for helping me narrow down middleweight contenders - 600 miles into KTM 790 Duke ownership has be thinking no street machine could possibly be more satisfying.
Fantastic analysis of the 4 bikes……really nice to watch some calm informative feedback and review instead of the standard on board shouting through a go pro stuff that you normally find on you tube.
It surprises me a bit how so many riders find the hornet small and cramped…..I test rode the street triple r and hornet back to back and actually to me apart from the seat height the hornet felt more substantial (and comfortable) and if you check the specs of both bikes the ST is actually smaller in dimensions than the hornet.
I also felt the hornets power was more accessible than the ST which for me = more fun !
No doubt the ST is a great bike….I ordered the hornet….delivery in September, can’t wait !
Thanks again BBS for an entertaining hour 👍
Triumph Street triple 765 is missing :)
Love the 2023 MT-07. Big fan
I wish we had the same prices here in Denmark. Yamaha - 95k, Suzuki and Honda - 100k and the KTM IS 120k. I would choose the Suzuki from new and KTM as second hand. Great vid 👍
The best comparison yet. Great job.
Really enjoyed that review. Brilliant 👍
Suzuki all the way,..mainly because I think if you have years of experience you naturally would love the torque characteristics of the Suzuki ,.. well I did anyway 👍
I really really enjoyed this..thanks guys
Our pleasure, glad you enjoyed.
Cheers, Michael
That was long wasn't it... but loved it, really thorough. Well done.
Have the 790 Duke myself, love it, and daily usage for commuting. Greets from Austria, Tom
Awesome guy's cheers 👍🏻
That was a proper review👍
Suzuki for me kTM are a rip off expecting you to pay out for extras,
Great comparison 👏
It’s a very fair point and one I hope came across in the film.
Just so I've got this clear do ktm already have things built into the bike but you have to pay to unlock them?
@@davewestsk8yes
@@bennettsbikesocial It was certainly mentioned but did you mention the cost of the KTM as tested as distinct from RRP? And the Honda and Yamaha for that matter since both of them had the quickshifter added. The only one tested as standard was the Suzuki. The Suzuki also has a three year warranty which the others don't and it's extendable to 7 years or 70,000 miles at no extra cost as long as you keep it dealer serviced. Of course Suzuki can offer this knowing it's going to be reliable, unlike your winner!
European bikes are for people with deep pockets. Japanese bikes are for those on budget.
Hi, great video,
I’ve been biking for 40 years. Had a nasty crash over the winter which wrote off my z900 2019. I wanted something lighter as I’m still recovering from the broken leg, shoulder etc.
Test rode the hornet in April then the KTM straight after. Rode the KTM twice as far on the demo before I headed back. In April they had 3.9% finance & free quickshifter so I ordered a KTM, got it later that month. 3000 miles later it’s a great bike. You pointed out the better motor & suspension, it just seemed a better bike all round. I rode the Yamaha a few times after launch but couldn’t face the poor standard suspension. All the best guys 👏😎👍🏍
Thanks for your input and I’m glad you’re ok after the Kwak off.
Great in depth review ❤ Love the format - much netter than one reviewers opinion.
You’re very welcome. What four shall we review next?
@@bennettsbikesocialonly recently returned to biking - went for what I knew ...a 2002 CBR600 (mint, 5k on the clock) - I love it but my older frame isnt as pliable to the riding position or the constant gear changing.. a quickshifter would be a godsend 😂
I did have a hankering for a big trail/trail style tourer - but I'm honestly seriously thinking about the 750 Hornet now 😂 For the scant miles I do the PCP is a bargain 🤷♂️
Thank you great fun watching you perfect review
Couldn't sleep tonight so I thought I would watch this to help me. I have now watched it and I'm still awake. I found it very interesting as I own a new Hornet and love it. I agree with most of what you said but for me I had 7 grand to spend and the Hornet was the only one that came in at that price. I sold a 390duke to buy it and did try the 790 a few years ago but wasn't blown away by it at the time. Not sure why. I've owned loads of bikes and the Hornet is as much fun as any of them on the road. I also think it's got loads of bottom end power. I'm surprised it didn't come out on top to be honest after you said it was cheapest, sounded the best, steered the quickest, had a great quick shifter, the most storage and the biggest tank for better range. I'm quite small so fit it well and love the dash which has 4 different layouts to choose from. I do agree it can get out of shape a bit at speed and it's not the best looking of the bunch but better looking than the MT07!! Anyway a great review of 4 fantastic machines and no the triumphs being triples shouldn't have been included in this test I don't think but I would like to see a test between the Hornet and the new CFmoto 800nk as they're both 7 grand. Also the 790duke and the CFmoto 800nk as they share the same engine.
I ended up buying the Hornet.
I test rode the mt07, Hornet, sv650, and kawa 650. The 8s wasn’t out yet and I have read to much about KTM and people having problems with them, plus like you said it’s built in China now.. I will never buy a new motorcycle that’s built in China.
I really liked riding the sv650, it felt really comfortable and sounded gorgeous with the Yosi pipe and I couldn’t complain about anything, but I felt it was just a old bike with new paint.
The Kawa just isn’t me, the way it looks and I absolutely hate the sound of it. Rides fine just underpowered.
I really really liked the mt07, I love the look and sound, but it’s a harsh ride and the seat is really hard compared to the others.
I ended up buying the Hornet because it was the one with most power and comfort.. I am honest I absolutely hate the look of the Hornet. It looks boring and like the 500 and I never liked the look of that either.
If they could put the Hornet motor in the mt07 and put another suspension in, I would be 😍
I am a new rider, but I can feel what you are talking about on the Hornet wenn pushing it in corners. I do love how easy it is to flick into corners though.
I bought the yellow one, it’s a lot nicer irl. The red color on the black and white Hornet. I hate that color cause it makes the bike look cheap..
Thanks for the detail and I hope you’re getting on well with the Hornet. As with all these things, they don’t tend to be a forever purchase.
You are right especially the red and white one it looks super cheap when compared to the gun metal one which I think that or the black and red are the best looking. Other than that stickers might be the way to go for the hornet
Great choice for picking yellow hornet.
Although KTM ranks first in terms of the criteria you have discussed here, it ranks last for me due to reliability problems. So my preference would be between Honda or Suzuki.
That was brilliant. Please do the same for the category above. Mt09, Street Triple, Monster, 890
I chose the Honda. I drove 9000 km with it this year. I'm completely satisfied.
I bought the Hornet in April and have loved every minute of riding it. I’m 66 and the big GS was getting a bit too heavy for me to manoeuvre around. I wanted something I could have a relaxed ride on, that was light and easy to ride and get my feet on the floor but you could have some fun with if you pulled the throttle back. The bike has cost me in total (with all the extras) £10,250 and I’m getting 69.2 MPG out of it. Really enjoyed your review
Thanks for sharing and I’m glad you enjoyed.
Cheers, Michael
Hi Roger. How many extras did you buy for your Hornet? £3251 of extras? I rode it a few months ago and really liked it. Felt it was a bit flighty at higher speeds. (That may be down to tyre pressures, possibly). I ended up buying a 919 hornet instead, for a lot less. Enjoy your bike 👍👊✊
@@arryt3912 yes that’s about what I put on the bike extra to the sales price
Congrats on a good decision. I would have picked the Hornet but learned that Honda has no plan to bless America, so I bought my new 790 Duke and love it.
Triumph Trident and Troon 660 would have been good additions.
They did mention them, but it seems they chose battle of the twins. Though the Aprilia in my opinion is basically a better hornet, it'd be a close competitor to the 890 duke instead of the 790.
@@JelloThatsMellow
the aprilia costs much more than all of the rest, it is also a track foxused high revving bike compared to the other street bikes.
ive had a trident before i bought the 790 duke, the ktm is a lot more fun.
haven't ridden any of them and the Hornet isn't even available near me so this was just neat to listen to :)
A few years back I was looking into getting a nice new KTM 1290R.
I saved my pennies, waited for the new model year to come out and popped to the dealer.
Most of the paperwork done and he came out with "would you like any extras" - I had already got some of the power parts and the Akra in mind so said yes.
The next thing he said was "would you like to add the (can't remember the name) pack" which was to unlock wheelie control, rear abs defeat and a couple of other things.
Long story short I said thats a deal breaker and he tried to call my bluff by saying he couldn't do anything about it.
I walked and two days later he called to say he could get it thrown in as "goodwill".
I declined and haven't been back since - nor will I while they continue the ridiculous practice of trying to charge extra to digitally unlock things which are already on the bike and have already had all the cost and development paid.
On where they are built - it makes no difference apart from showing intent. If they are building in Japan or other places with high wages they are likely going for quality over price. If they are going to Thailand they are looking for a price cut and my Thai built Honda certainly isn't up to the quality of my Japan built ones - not bad but there are noticable differences in quality.
Made in China got a bad name for a reason because the early Chinese built bikes were terrible. I've been to the WK and CF Moto stands at the NEC along with the usual 125cc ones and the general trend seems to be poor welds, uncovered wiring, things not quite lined up properly and really cheap materials.
Obviously not all are like that but its certainly a gamble.
Anywhere can produce bikes of the same quality but when they do they tend to cost a similar amount.
The exeption is when there are subsidies such as state ownership and infrastructure investment. If you need to be told why thats a bad thing when there is a dictatorship in power just ask the workers.
You make some solid points with rational thinking instead the usual "fan-boy" thinking that goes on here....thanks.
You're doing the world good by refusing that B/S dlc unlockable crap!
Gr8 review :) I'm currently riding a Trident 660, and was looking at getting a 790 Duke next year. This video convinced me even more in favour of the KTM, compared to the rest of the midi naked category. I'm also 6' tall and feel the Trident is also a bit cramped.
Triumph Trident, Ducati Monster, Aprilia Tuono!!!! See how this works, you give us this excellent review and we just want more 🙂
Wanted a second bike to use around the country lanes so test rode the Hornet and S8 back to back 3 weeks ago and bought the S8. I felt the engine was better, had more grunt, none of these bikes need to be screamed on the public road so having the power low and mid range is far better for me than screaming it!! and I felt the quality of the Suzuki was better than the Honda which had a swing arm that looks like it was off a 125!! and the sub frame join to the rest of the frame also looked cheap compared to the S8 which is a far better looking and practical addition. With regards to value, some people are missing something... The Hornet gets a 2 year warranty so to get it with the same 3 year warranty as the S8 costs an extra £250, the quick shifter £260 so its nowhere way above the Hornet as some suggest.. The other thing that is far better than all the others is if you keep the Suzuki serviced every year you get a renewed FULL Suzuki warranty each year for up to 7 years FOC!!! Had 2 KTM,s a 1290 Adventure and a 390 Duke, both played up and I got rid so never again....My wife had a 390 Duke and that played up too!
What do you mean by "played up"?
Good morning, front fork seals leaked, engine oil leaks horn stopped working, indicators stopped working, all within 1200 miles!@@spartanx169x
@@spartanx169x just a guess but I think he means reliability problem.
@@spartanx169x POS, literally. A piece of sheeeet. Typical KTM quality control. And then, gee whiz, let's produce our bike in china-land, because our products don't have a big enough reliability black-cloud hanging over our head already.......stupid is as stupid does.
I had a feeling, that is what the real world would choose
I think the Suzuki is a tremendous value; I'd love to see what it can do with clip-ons, suspension mods, brembo brakes, and power mods.
the austrian magazine 1000PS tested a very recent cup version of the bike and apparently its veery capable and seems impressive by the looks of it. Its on youtube aswell you can look it up if you dont mind not understanding whats said.
Great video, I have to say as a shorty 5 foot 4 I really struggle with most bikes, as seat heights have increased so much
Really compelling format; the similar test you did a couple of years ago with the Tiger 900, Tracer GT etc is still in my favourites list. I find the group of you (who consist of most of my favourite roadtesting bike gurus in one…. barn? Partly-completed garage?) in discussion far more informative and engaging than one reviewer standing by a bike reading a list of specs. I’ll caveat that by saying that I DO enjoy more conventional road tests/launch reports and understand that this format must take a lot of organising, coordinating schedules and logistics but when you can do them, I will definitely pay attention, even if I’m not that interested in any of the bikes being reviewed. Which is the case here, though I’m being tickled by the idea of the KTM’s slightly bigger brother as a track bike. So thank you quite a lotly, please keep them coming and if you could do a similar gig for the next-level up nakeds/semi-najeds such as KTM 890R, Triumph Street Triple RS, Aprilia RS660/Tuono 660 Factory, that’d be super
Thanks Mr D, it's our pleasure to be able to make this kind of content, and to have the likes of Simon, Martin and John contribute so cohenrently and with great experience was a privilege. We're always open to ideas and I'm working on creating a 125cc commuter group test at the moment.
All the best, Michael
Thanks for an interesting comparison between these.
I think you have many viewers from overseas where meter is the unit and liters/km is revised. Please also use the measurements in future. Having said that, your tests are super 👍😊
Thanks!!
It’s great that there are so many good middle weight naked to choose from. I think I like the Suzuki best personally (but haven’t ridden the Honda or KTM!)
Brilliant. What a great man
I had the 2019 390 and made the switch to 2021 790. And still love it
The Suzuki has proven to be a monster when tuned and upgraded with a better air box and full exhaust. 2WDW is getting 88 whp (around 100 bhp) with the said mods. The actual throttle position is also completely murdered in the higher rev’s on the Suzuki. A tune fixes the issues…
I’ve only ridden the mt-07 but just looking at the specs I think the Honda deserves more even though it doesn’t have the best looks ultimately it sounds the best, performs well, super reliable and very affordable.
I would buy the Honda even though my heart is set on inline 4 engines
Yep it's ugly no desire not my type
You can't just look at the specs and say the Honda should be ranked higher. The MT07 is behind in everything. 0-60 between the 8S, Hornet, and Duke are almost identical and 0-100 are pretty close. The 8S and Duke outhandle the Hornet and have a better power curve for a naked street bike. The only things the Hornet beats them at is top end and price.
Thanks for the excellent video. I especially liked it that included four individual opinions. I'm looking to upgrade to one of these from my current Duke 390 but live in the US so I'm forced to wait till 2024 when the Hornet is rumored to be released for sale here. Will reserve my final opinion till I can see my current favorite Hornet which sounds like the best fit for me with the possible exception of the suspension which is easily upgraded if necessary.
I upgraded my 390 to a hornet. No regrets
I will be buying a hornet,I personally like the looks, originally I thought the white but changed my mind to the grey one.
I ve just did the same m8! Grey FTW!!!
As some have already mentioned, the new 790 Duke is down on power compared to the first model (95bhp compared to 105bhp) and doesn't have all the same tech and quickshifter/blipper as standard. It's also made in China now. I owned a 2020 original model and while a good bike it had several issues...leaking sprocket and thermostat housing, rust appearing on the engine block after 9 months of mainly dry non winter use, bike cutting out on downshifts. Hopefully, these things have been rectified
I wonder what is different if anything hardware wise for that power loss or if it is fuelling/mapping. If so, for someone not interested in A2 you could tune that back to full power pretty easily. What can also be done is fuel it richer to solve the issue you mention with stalling on downshifts. This is down to them being super-lean from factory to meet emissions standards.
just curious ... how did you manage to get rust on an alloy engine block?
@MotoGoato A good question and one I put to ktm. Only to be told their warranty didn't cover wear and tear. There was definite bubbling starting around the headers where the top end meets the bottom end
@@TheeMisterspain ahhh I see, ok .. bit of oxidisation forming under the paint by the sound of it. You got a little unlucky there .. my 2019 790 shows no signs of any corrosion or rust anywhere, even all the bolt heads (usually the first to go) are still good. Have used a fair bit of ACF-50 and TC-200 protectants on it since new though, seems like those must be helping.
Yup, it's the dubious reliability of the KTM that's stopped me buying one.
I was looking at mt07, but I had Honda F4I, and GIXXER R6 in my young days. Then I saw XSR900, instant love.
It's funny, i just looked it up, the GSX8S and hornet are both 100000 dkr here in denmark :-) exv 11500 pound
Denmark has heavy tariffs on imports.
@@A-FrameWedge only on vehicles. It's a luxury tax 😉
I think the reason why the Hornet might feels like a smaller bike is due to the level of the tank and pilon seat. Since You’re not sitting “on top of” but rather “in” the bike you have a feeling of being relatively low (which is only emphasised by the seat height, which is pretty low).
One of the best reviews/evaluations I ever saw. Great opinions from a wide range of experience. By the way, the KTM gets almost 105hp in the states(no A2 here).
We have the 890 duke if the 94hp is not enough.
Thanks for the review. I am very interested in this (and another 2 bikes) for my next bike and would be great if you can do top 10 things you like/don’t like about this bike. Couple of questions I had were
1. Any vibrations (at motorway speeds)
2. I couldn’t find any major updates since 2020 but wondering if there are any new features I would miss out by buying an older bike (2020 onwards).
Thanks in advance🙏
Great review. I think I would prefer the KTM 790. But not trusting KTM to be reliable I went with the Suzuki. Love the low to mid range. Would like a little more pull on top. Hopefully an ECU flash will solve that. Oh and Yohimura to solve that tail section.
Being the Suzuki just came out and is an econo model , the KTM is the safer bet on reliability
@@jake88ci no not really how it works.
@@jake88ciNot a chance. KTM is known for dodgy reliability and being made in China definitely isn't going to change that. Suzuki, on the other hand, is consistently reliable and the fact that the engine is pretty mild should help.
@jridenour31 yes but cf moto are offering a 4 year warranty on their bikes which shows they think reliability shouldn't be too much of an issue, also if ktm were having lots of issues cf moto would end up loosing the contract so I doubt reliability, other than the usual ktm niggles, is going to be a problem just because it's built in China
@jridenour31 Just pointing out that KTM has been quite reliable the last few years. As long as they keep it up, KTMs being unreliable will be more meme than reality
A removable subframe would be nice on a road bike if, as happened to me, a little tap by an inattentive driver bends the rear tip of the frame, causing a total loss of the bike (a CB500F) according to the Honda dealer. I took a little compensatory cash from the driver and removed the steel license plate hanger that got bent along with the frame, and ride with my plate zip-tied to a plastic bit. But a 2 mph bump totalling the bike? Please make the rear subframe removable for middleweight nakeds, and certainly for middleweight ADVs. I'm looking at you, Transalp. Suzuki it is.
Great, balanced comparison. I haven't ridden any of these but would consider them as a second bike. I think I'd go for the Suzuki on looks and low down grunt. I always like the idea of a KTM but would I own one? Probably not. I've heard too many horror stories about reliability issues. Maybe a Chinese built one will be better though! Despite being a Yamaha owner I think the MT07 has had its day. I like the Hornet in red and white but I've seen it and strikes me as too small.
Great review Lads - I think it is a case of you need to test all and ride all a few times before you lay down some coin.
Thanks for commenting on tank size, mileage and range. 1 of my local rides is 220km between fuel stops. Mandatory for me to have a bike that can make that distance while riding spirited
Good discussion
I would choose the Hornet having it either in Yellow or Grey with the Sport and Style pack, add the SC Project exhaust and sports seat it definetly makes it look so much better.
I wanted the KTM, had several test rides thru some twisties ... then i rode the Suzuki thru the same twisties - Put my money on the 8S that same day !!! 😅❤
Just what i was looking for im after an upgrade for my 390 duke and the hornet 8s and 790 are going to be tested soon
790 had all of the electronics standard when it was more expensive, and likely wasn't made by cfmoto.
It’s only £200 more expensive if you spec it to the equivalent of the original. Not too bad if you think about how much inflation there has been since 2018
Really great thorough comparison guys. Out of interest was there any suspension twiddling on any of them, if so, did it help?
I don't think any of them have adjustable suspension.
@@JelloThatsMellow I believe all the Jap bikes have rear shocks adjustable for preload only. Admittedly it's not much to play with but adding a bit of preload sometimes improve things & nothing to lose by trying it.
Also forgot to mention in my last comment - this 4 way style comparison video was awesome!, you guys need to do some more!
Possibly suggestion for next video; keeping with “middleweights” but with slight cc/power step up to this video- so a Triumph ST 765 RS/Ktm 890duke r/Yamaha mt09sp/kawasaki z900
Let’s find some sponsors and get the next one done! Middleweight adventure bikes, 125s, sporty nakeds would all be good group tests too.
Interesting chat gentleman! I rode all this bikes and ended up buying a Tuono 660 Factory. Yeah, it does cost quite a bit more, but you get an amazing chassis, brakes and state of the art electronics for, not only for this class, so the price difference is justified in my opinion.
Yeah and lots of breaking Parker’s 😂
@@er98ah I‘m not sure what exactly the reason is, but 99% of all the horror stories about breaking engines and other issues with the 660 bikes seem to come from the US market. Maybe there is something wrong with their final assembly of the bikes at their dealers? I had Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 for 6 years, 35.000 km/ 23.000 miles - not a single issue. My friend rides a Tuno V4 Factory since a couple of years and had no issues other than a faulty switch, another one rides a RS 660 since two years and is a very happy owner. Search the internet carefully and you won’t find many complains from Europe, what is rather interesting.
@@bartoszpajak2285 people freak out if they hear anything.....check out all MT 10s blowing Motors, tons of em....its still a reliable bike
Have KTM 890 R wasn't worried when I bought it and it's been a gem for over a year
I would get an Aprilia in a heartbeat....beautiful bikes and handling
I buy bikes for enjoyment and performance......Aprilia is probably my next bike...
Fully agree that the fuel tanks are just too small on all these type of bikes. Its what’s stopped me upgrading my cb500f as I use it mainly at commuting speeds etc with the occasional country road weekend blast. Great video though
The chinese KTM may be as reliable as an austrian KTM but an austrian KTM is nowhere near as reliable as the japanese bikes.
FINALLY, someone with a logical, rational statement.
Great review.
I wonder what the CF Moto version of the 790 will be like.
I just got the 790. Love it. I had the mt07 which is brilliant. I still own a street triple 765 which is amazing in every aspect. But the ktm is addictive. Whatever you want to do, she wants to do more. It's a ktm thing. Love it or hate it. I had three. As I said, it's addictive.
All these bikes are good but I've ordered the Honda (with quick shifter and heated grips) as it suits my needs and I found it hard to fault when I had a test ride. It's got an exciting engine, a good ride and it's tremendous value for money.
I wouldn't buy the 790 Duke as it's made in China, and I wouldn't buy the Suzuki as I don't like it's looks and its ride could be too firm.
At the end of the day fortunately we're spoilt for choice!
"The Honda struggles a bit, visually." I do appreciate dry understatement.
Great comparison, especially Simon's chat. I fully agree with the statement about why highlight an already ugly frame
in red as Honda have done. In Australia we don't even get any versions of the Hornet with a black frame and here the price difference between the Hornet and 8S is only the equivalent of about 350 quid. I am leaning towards the 8S as is my son in his early 20s whom I can pass the bike onto in a couple of years.
Honda for me looks really bland, which is a shame because the cb650r is a great looking bike.
KTM, I’d regret not getting the 890.
Yamaha, too much money for what it is.
Suzuki, best looking in my opinion but doesn’t sound like the engines best and it’s a bit porky.
I have one of the final SV’s and got it for a bargain price, them v twin engines still brilliant and it’s a great chassis. Stock dunflops tyres let it down slightly and It’s no tech, but it’s not like you need it on a sub 100bhp bike.
If I was to change to a bike in the same category, I’d probably try a Z650RS.
-2 teeth on the front sprocket really wakes and SV up too 😁
Test rode a 790, then an 890R and also an MT09 SP, absolutely blown away y the 890R and bought it the following week. THE most fun bike I’ve ridden in 20 years of biking
Well put together revue Simon's input is always on the money. As for bikes I would pick the hornet I wouldn't trust a ktm built in Austria let alone China loads of horror stories out there well documented then a friend of mine bought a brand new 1290 two weeks in and its dripping coolant on the floor or is it just parking it's territory 😂
I've just commented on that! WTF are KTM's so shit wherever they're built? I don't get it? I don't get why Yamaha can build a bike better? I also believe Triumph are the same unless you only do low mileage.
Notorious for leaks
in regards to price, the yammy is the cheapest at $8200 in the US, the suzuki is 8850, and the ktm is a whopping 9200. (the hornet is not available in the US) incidentally, the sv650 is still available and is only 7400. and still an absolutely excellent bike.
they mention the handlebar angle being adjustable... the ktm says it actually has four positions on the triple clamp for the handlebar mount. i don't think i've ever seen that on any other bike.
another bike nobody talks about in this class is the gsx-s750. it's only $8650 and has about 98hp, 54ftlbs. the most recent review i could find was from 2015, but there are two dealerships near me that have at least one in stock for 2023. though in terms of modern, this model is not.
regarding fuel capacity, my sv650 will easily go another 10 miles after the screen says zero miles remaining. and that's with spirited riding. but my z900 on the other hand won't even show figures that low, it stops showing a number under like 15. but if you count it out, it's usually right on the money. 15 miles later, you had better already have stopped because that's the absolute max you'll get even with gentle riding. so each manufacturer, and maybe each model, should be range checked when you buy it, so that you know what the dash numbers mean.
I just watched out of curiosity and I’m biased having a 2021 SDR. one thing which comes almost always back about KTM. They are fun bikes to ride. In the super naked category the SDR is not efficient as Tuono or a streetfighter. However it always brings a smile on my face no matter the weather. This said I find KTM’s option politic outrageous.
Reliability wise I never had an issue with my 4 SDR but i didn’t keep them for too long.
Great review btw