It's silly for people to fight and gatekeep sims and simcades, they're all close enough to transfer skills with. The main thing is whichever you find more immersive/enjoyable for YOU.
No they're not. Basing your "skills" on most of the simcades would probably almost kill you in real life, for sure you would destroy a lot of cars if you want to actually compete and not just have fun. They can still help you with reaction times, but a realistic physics engine is the most important thing.
and there you have it, already 2 people gatekeeping. LOL. The fact of the matter is (wait, that is a Biden quote, lol) that ANY of these games teach you skills you can transfer over to the real thing. Some people are just not able to adapt. Back in the day we learned many basics in Gran Turismo 2. At the time it was considered a simulation, not a simcade (which is a wrong take imo, the GT series was always simulation and always will be, how correct it gets certain things simply means how good of a simulation it is or isn't. They never set out to make a simcade and they never made a simcade. Quality of life features like in GT7 where people spin out and become transparent are just that, quality of life to make it easier, they are not what make it a simcade. ACC which is arguably not a simcade and a hardcore racing sim has you go through other cars in pits and on rolling start.... does that make it a simcade? lol. Anyway, back on point) and as I was saying, GT2 at the time was arguably the best racing sim we could get our hands on. It taught you so many things that did indeed transfer over to the real world. At the very minimum, it taught you racing lines and the actual tracks. Now you go back to GT2, and it is horrendous compared to todays racing sims. So how then could we still adapt things we learned from it? The answer is simple. There are a lot of skills that can be transferred over depending on the game, and that is all there is to it. How much and what each experience transfers may differ, and for those that want a 1 to 1 representation I also get it, they want to build muscle memory but they still need to understand that it all comes down to tyre selections, car setups, and what each sim focuses on. The gatekeeping is real, and annoying. I mean ofcourse I wouldn't go as far as saying "you can transfer Need For Speed HP 2010 Remastered" to the real thing, because all that game teaches you is that you can go at 300kmp and touch the handbreak on a large turn and the car will wonderfully turn through the corner. lol. That is a prime way to end yourself in real life. But if you aren't that bright as to know and understand what can be transferred to real life or not then sure, stay away from simcades, and even more so arcade racers. Comes down to the personal experience of every person in the end. I would say there is a lot to take away from any of these racers, and I would go even further that it is actually a good practice to play different ones at that. This will make your more adaptable and give you an entire understanding of all the different ways of handling. Like in real life. You learn one car and know how to push it hard, then enter another car, you will need some time to adjust. Its practically each time like a different experience. From the handling, to the weight distribution to the weight overall, to power transfer to the road on each car, to even simpler and more obvious things such the clutch. I mean even the clutch is so different from car to car you need a few minutes to adjust. My car has a much softer longer (if that is the way to explain it) clutch feeling. Has a larger distance for it to go and its pressure is a little more linear. My spouses car, well her clutch (newer car, mines is from 2004 hers is from 2021) feels like it has a shorter distance to press on it, is a little more grippy and it doesn't feel as linear, has a little more of a harder kick to it at the start. Then we can go into technologies, her car being new for example when you let go of the clutch it has a lock system that doesn't allow the car to roll back when you are uphill unless you let go of the break for a while for it to register, like 3 seconds or something, making starting in first gear on uphill much easier, my car you need to be much quicker from break to acceleration and then play with the clutch much sooner as it will straight away want to roll backwards on the uphill so as to make sure you do not move back but also don't just abruptly start. Point being, there are so many differences even in real life. Gatekeepers are just immature people that need to defend their practice end of the day. Sure there are those that again come down to personal experience and can't adapt different skill sets to the real thing, but more often than not its just defending their preferred choice and I would say the less adaptable you are the less you need to think of simracing as practice to begin with. They are wrong on step one from the get go. And practicing to create muscle memory in those conditions is actually worse. Because end of the day NO sim racer no matter how good it is is actually 1 to 1. There are cars in iRacing that simply do not match their real life counterpart as much as say the first Assetto Corsa. And vise versa. Which brings us to the other lifelong argument between ACC and iRacing. Which is better for GT3? Neither and both. They use different tyre models that are based on tests on different tyre selections on different conditions to begin with. And the access of cars each team had in either case when they designed the games physics is different. So you can't say either is wrong. They both as a result kind of have a homogenous rersult. Their biggest difference being the breaks. iRacing for example has way too much break turning (when you start to break and turn the wheel slightly and use your feet more to turn the car) on every single car selection. Some of these do not feel anything like this in real life. ACC on the other hand seems like the cars it had more testing on had much more sophisticated ABS making it I would argue too good overall all around. Both are right and wrong, and there is an overlap. And that says it all. That is how much these people gatekeep. They would sit there and btch and whine over ACC vs iRacing, which are both top notch racing sims. What do you expect them to do with regards to simcades? lol. Its sad to see. Me? Personally? The more games I race on the better. And ultimately this increases your all around skills. And I don't even care to transfer my skills into the real thing. But if I did, I would be in a rude awakening realising that neither iRacing or ACC can be transferred 1 to 1 to the real thing and you will ALWAYS need to adjust. If your core understanding however is more well rounded, well you need less time to adjust and are more adaptable. Plain and simple. With said example, I enjoyed both iRacing and ACC. I simply don't play much iRacing not because it wasn't fun, it actually was I enjoyed it a lot (and that damage model is awesome, feels like you are ACTUALLY crashing when you go off track) but mostly because it has obnoxiously bad predatory practices. Its ridiculous. It is not worth its price range not by a longshot. Their practice is so bad, I had subbed for a month, I cancelled the sub of course so it doesn't just charge me every month when it sees fit, and I had 7 days left sub time. They done some patch update 7 days before my subscription ended, and the game would not update and tell me I do not have the latest patch to play, when I went to download it would say I am not allowed to upgrade due to my sub model. Talk about a bunch of stingy bstrds. That was the most abysmal practice I have ever seen. So they practically robbed me of my last week of subscription and I couldn't get the update because apparently I when I subbed I supposedly subbed for the previous content and had to be "greenlit" for a sub renewal to get new content? Talk about stingy. I could of gone around it and activated the autosub I assume, get the update, then deactivate the autosub again..... But I found a better solution. Its the little uninstall button. Works wonders. Buuuut, yeah... The gist of it is, play what you like. It doesn't matter. If you are incapable of adapting different skills to the real thing, again, you shouldn't be trying to transfer simracing to real no matter how good the racing sim you are on is, because it ALL needs adapting and the ability to transfer concepts rather than a 1 to 1 rendition. Those that say otherwise are just convincing themselves at this point. I even heard pro racers that are rabid iRacing fans defend iRacing so much and it is sooo good and their go to bla bla bla. After years they say they can't keep turning a blind eye to its shortcomings. lol. So you were not 100% honest? Right. Nice to know. Others straight up just admit iRacing is their goto choice, but it is still definitely not 1 to 1 and are more honest about it. For the rest of us that don't even care about going into real life racing, it honestly doesn't matter. If you are on real roads and are going over the speed limit to begin with you are already doing something wrong and need to be OFF the road. Those that want to go into real life racing, they will have a rude awakening when realising that no matter their choice, there will always be differences they need to adapt to and learn, and it will take time. You barely made your comment and within hours there are already 2 people gatekeeping. Says a lot mate. But I am with you.
Yep what actually matter is you learn the basics of how a real life works No matter what game you play, they won't be identical to real life. If you apply the basics of racing line you learn on mario kart, of iracing, its not the game you played that will make you good at irl. The principles of how the car will respond/ how you should react and learn from it to apply on real life is what will make difference. Ofc you will learn way more from iracing than Mario kart, but Your sim gears or sim game still a game after all Irl will be different regardless. What will help you its what you learned from playing the game and try to apply on real life. Any racing driver/ sim driver will tell you that, just search 🔎
For someone who had a thousand hours of playing a bunch of rally games (Dirt Rally, EA WRC, WRC7,10 etc) you are very lucky to have that sort of immersion in your area. We don't have much opportunity to slide around cars without having to buy a car.
I hear ya. It's about a 13 hour drive from where we live, to DirtFish. We definitely had to make a trip out of it! Super fortunate to have a place like that available on the same side of the continent though.
I’m building up my first proper PC rig next week, so once it’s all dialled in, I definitely want to try what you guys have been working on over there. I’ve heard good things!
@@thetwitchywarlock hopefully they eventually add proper rally activities like they have drag or track ones, with callouts and stages and everything. I think they will one day
Ive been playing rally sims all my life such as D3 to the newest WRC game. and last year i went from ingame to irl, but not rally only rallycross. and let me tell you that the fact that game knowledge translates to irl knowledge is genuinely true. ive reached P1 almost every HEAT ive done in my good old Opel astra 1.8 sport, without me having played those rally sims i wouldnt be able to spring the car into a slide even tho its a un-tuned un-modded FWD car. its actually awesome how close they resemble eachother.
I was a co pilot of friend of mine a few years back. He just invited me for an event, I said "ok" in the same second. First few drives and my stomach was inside out even that I was on passenger with some fast street drivers and cars before. But man, this mate got Impreza gt (so no sti) but on racing tyres. The level of grip was impossible comparing to road car. Then we got something like P5, was over 30 cars, and we was in the middle of 4wd turbo class. So I just asked: -man, that was sick, really good and fast driving, compared to the other pack also. So for how long you are doing this? -Well, that was my first time on stage, got this car for about a month maybe, did about 100 kilometers on roads before today. -what the hell, no way! It must be something more that that! -I played some games before on wheel. Remember that year before, he was hyped on the first Dirt rally coming out. Then I learned how sim racing can be important to be better driver. And in the same year got my first wheel and started playing. Still don't own any fun car but simracing still gets smile on my face.
Best of luck! I'm super happy to hear someone was able to make the game to irl move and not only enjoy it, but also find success. I hope nothing but the best for you and stay safe out there :)
Arguably one of the biggest problems of "simcades", as the more hardcore fans call them, is that they make the IRL problems notably more difficult than the actual problems. This probably comes from a desire to balance the fact that since you're not in any real danger or that can't represent other real problems so they make you pay more attention to the issues they can replicate, but it comes at the cost of feeling natural and authentic, so I'm not surprised you found out that some elements were easier
@@TacoTechnica same goes for drifting, I find it ironically harder in games than in real life. Feeling movement in your gut, and having over 200 degree field of vision, makes night and day difference.
None of them are harder in Dirt Rally 2.0 nor in any rally simulator except maybe original Richard Burns Rally without NGP physics. It's just that persons who tried real-life driving, who are trying simracing for the first time, get the inertias and speeds wrong. There's no sense of speed at all in most proper rally simulators. The first time I tried Assetto Corsa with a stock Porsche in the Nordschleife coming from rally sims I immediately thought "how is this supposed to be realistic" after going off the road straight away as the car wouldn't steer at all. That's until I realized the speeds at which I was going, my surprise was as huge as the number in the speedometer. Of course my brain is used to narrow forest roads that look blazing fast even with a Trabant, and to low-geared cars. So the engine noise on the Porsche, the time between gear shifts, and the surroundings confused my brain into thinking I was going slow and that therefore I should have the grip to make the corner. This is what happens to every person who tried rally IRL when they try RBR/NGP or something like that. They don't realize how fast they are going, go too fast into the corner, have no grip at all as a result, and they go off. On the other hand, world-class Nikolay Gryazin has as channel playing RBR/NGP regularly and he's stated many times how many things are way simpler in RBR/NGP than in real life, and one can see in fact how aggressive real cars sometimes behave but not in RBR/NGP. And in any other rally game, even less.
Can confirm, that sound never gets old. Had my Version 5 STI for 11 years now. Purchased as a road car, built into a rally car. Next rally in just under 3 weeks.
Also love that boxer sound. Every time a Subaru is passing me always wait for the pure music coming from exhaust, event the forester looking like liitle family wagon for soccer moms and going on low rpm (like normal non car people drive) gets smile on my face because this is quiet but still crazy sounding low roar :) Lancer is more powerful (and no need to discuss that) but the Impreza sounds a lot faster and meaner.
Played RBR for years and right after drivibg licence i went to check out n evo9 on gravel. I felt quite like "i know what happens cuz its similar like in game". Spun a few times, but thats because setup of this evo didnt suit me (rear brakes quite high, but ok few laps and you adapt). In general you take easily copy basics from RBR into real, but please leave a bit room because you know... it will be different, but you will quickly recognize situations and manage them if you dont overdo
I managed to save myself from a minor accident using skills I learned in dirt rally 2.0 there definitely is a transfer of skills just from an understanding of the physics point of veiw
This is a great video (your explanations of the sensations in game/reality are excellent), awesome that you got to experience DirtFish in real life too 😀
Just putting it out there. super bummed they didnt put this absolutley amazing location back into EA WRC, major miss by them. Spent so much time testing and dialing in the car setting here. Very cool hearing how it translates in IRL, and im excited to see your journey so i can cheat off someone lol Dirt Fish is also killing it with the WRC coverage these days, SICK!
Man, I remember when I bought my WRX after driving sims for years. Up to that point I had only driven normal passenger cars, had only driven stick once when I was a teenager. I don't care what anyone says, the skills you learn in these games will absolutely help apply those techniques to a real car. The key is to make sure the sims don't make you overconfident. Remember that you're driving a real car, with real parts, that can really break. Remember to keep your own safety and that of those around you as your top priority. Don't push it until you're confident in your real skills and you'll be just fine! Good luck on your journey my man, wish I had the time/resources to do the same!
Solid words of advice! I keep hearing the term “mechanical sympathy” from rally drivers. As in: you’ve gotta have some mechanical sympathy for your car, otherwise that thing is gonna break immediately if you don’t play nice with it. That’ll be an expensive lesson to learn, coming from the sim 😅
@@RyansRoadToRally Like my grandpa always told me, god rest his soul: "The turtle didn't beat the rabbit by being faster, the rabbit just threw a rod by driving like dipshit."
I think the thing this is missing about the force feedback is that the ffb from the wheel base isn't meant to only simulate the forces at the wheel, it's meant to simulate the g-forces as well (which, as you mentioned, are quite strong). Even in something like my Prius, which has super light steering, if I take an on-ramp with enough speed I'm going to feel a lot of weight in my arms and body trying to stop me from continuing to steer. Since we don't have any g-forces in a sim, the wheel strength has to be a lot stronger to compensate for the overall lack of information. Great video btw! Awesome that you got some sponsors, and an ambitious goal!
That makes total sense to me. Good call on that. The wheel really does need to be our main source of information for how the sim car is connected to the road.
@@RyansRoadToRally Also, most people have dogshit FFB settings to be fair... they leave the wheels force and wheel force waaaay up while they both need to be very very low and they don't up the suspension FFB which needs to be set very very high to feel what's going on... so the end result is a very heavy wheel with bad FFB that they're fighting against... personally with my FFB settings I don't need to force the wheel at all, ever... the wheel is light and easy to maneuver...
I got a wheel about a month or two back and was having the worst experiences with RWD cars but once I watched a few tutorials on weight transfer and other general tips I found myself spinning out less and controlling the car 100% better so its refreshing to see I wasn't the only one with this problem haha
Jack is awesome! I raced a bunch of DirtRally 2.0 with him back during covid when everything was shut down and Dirtfish was running a Twitch channel. The second they started offering classes again I booked a private lesson with Jack and had a blast. One word of advice when practicing in the sim. Drive the line you would drive in real life, not the optimal line for the game. While driving the optimal fast line for the stage may get you on the top of the leaderboards, you will not have the rally stage memorized the type of lines you will be driving in real life. Practice and perfect the late apex line as that will keep you on the road. If you want to finish first, first you must finish.
I am and have been multiple times the Australian khanacross champion. Been in it for over 8 years so i'd like to say i'm very good at rally driving. I play rally 2 on my basic logitech sim at home and would like to say yes. It is great practise and transfers to real life. However... only in the sense that you play it NOT to crash (not to go super fast). Its much harder to drive in it than it is in real life as you cant feel the car, gauge height and all sorts of things properly. It is overall great practise
What a great concept, to go from sim rally to the real world. I like the idea of matching your planned sim rig upgrades to the rally car as best as possible. If you end up with a motion simulator it would be interesting to compare accelerometer data from the real car and see how close it actually is (aside from g-force obviously).
Dirt rally gave me the skills to make awsome real life saves in my car. Lost it a few times in the wet and snow and the reflexes to countersteer, stay on throttle and straighter the car are all thanks to Dirt Rally.
Thing I noticed is that many RL drivers had very little understanding of how car works and how physics affect their handling, probably because of all computerized assists in modern cars. This means they lack knowledge to deal with situations when computer dampening is no longer enough. I had to explain to coworker what TCS is, and why his car "loses power" on curves, despite him flooring gas. Then I had to talk him out of disabling TCS, because he did not understand why you should not floor gas when turning. Secret behind fifth-gen Mustangs being so crash-prone suddenly became obvious to me. And try to explain to anyone, why slamming brakes makes their steering worse. You'll get blank stare 90% of time.
@@kireta21My first two cars got absolutely 0 assists, even no abs. First car was only on summer tyres and it was really hard to drive it on snow (knew that so was going really slow, to know the limits of grip). And thanks to that I was intentionally learned to lift the brake when locking up, feeling the grip coming back after the wheels started to rotate after lock. Or understood understeer and oversteer in rwd and fwd. On second car got lower coilovers and springs, low profile new tyres, and that make car feel more like gokart, getting back grip on dry tarmac was quite brutal. Of course going to abs tcs esp (and heavier) car I was forced to keep the wheel steady on corners and not countersteering (tcs was much quicker than me so started going opposite direction :D) and to hit hard and keep brake pressed when need emergency stop. But these fist two cars learned me a lot about the grip issues and how important the good tire is.
I am 50 and live in Ontario, Canada. Back when I was learning to drive (and unofficially before), parents brought their kids to parking lots (in different weather conditions) to learn how the vehicle will react.
@@shawndixon4536 It's something I still do everytime I buy a different car, during either heavy rain or snow. I find a mostly empty parking lot, pray to god there's no cops watching, and go over basic weight transitions for a few minutes. Saved my ass more than once
@@kireta21 true I learned to drift, trail brake and also how easy it is to crash on sims. All translated very well to RL driving. And always drive with DSC off on my car. Assist are NOT for spirited driving.
As a person who did AsettoCorsa and iRacing etc. and then went to a real track event in a couple of cars ... I agree with this video, driving real cars is easier in many ways, especially the "bum" feeling, you can slide by feel, you feel the grip at the front, the back, in general you get 3x more information about what is going on in a real car. The rest is pretty 1 to 1 if you have half decent setup at home. I was running higher tier fanatec in VR at that point, but that was years ago so things definitely changed.
used to watch you for mtb vids and slowly fell out of it but just got back into cars and was suprised to see that your the same guy glad to see u doin well and will be supporting this cool journey :D
Absolutely love this! As a sim rally fanatic with who works for a race team, but doesn't have the budget to go racing, I've always wondered how the skills transferred. Good luck dude!!!!
my main issue with sims is that, when I get in my car, I can feel what the car will do, where the weigh is resting, If I have good grip, If I can push a bit more. In the sim, all of this can only be relatively estimated using theoretical knowledge, which is cool, but it's not what you want to think of when you are driving
Damn, this video is so good and so important as well! I'm so tired of always telling people they're wrong when they say that "oh, DR 2.0 and WRC and all that is crap, it's just arcades, has nothing to do with actual driving, boohoo", because I have done some co-driving for a friend of mine who later got into these sim games and always praised it to the skies on how realistic it was... Also there's this video of I think Petter and Oliver Solberg trying out I think EA WRC and they both loved it as well! Well, now we also have it the other way around, in their case it was trying out a game after real experience, you did the opposite, you have tons of in-game experience and went to try out an actual rally car for the first time and once again confirmed how close it is... I'll just be directing people to this video from now on when they say nonsense such as "those games aren't even close to reality"... I mean you drove the actual car that's been put into the game, so there's pretty much no better comparison... Thank you so much for this video and good luck on your journey which I will definitely follow from now on (this is the first video I've seen from you by the way), you just got a new subscriber! ✌🏻
Recently, as the online support for Gran Turismo Sport went down, I told myself I’m going to do all the single-player stuff the game has. I did the driving school and the track experience with a wheel until I got all gold. My good god, did that actually make me a better driver in real life and in games! I have noticed that I have gained notable time on many tracks, not just in GT but in other games like Assetto Corsa Competizione, F1, even Dirt Rally, and more. I live in a remote place in Eastern Europe with a lot of empty roads around me, and I like to let my car rip through them. I have noticed that I have less fear on real roads as well. I do stuff at much higher speeds, brake later, take better lines, and know better when to let the car coast and when to step on the gas. Gran Turismo is no sim racer, but the lessons it teaches you are real and apply to real cars, and I think that’s pretty cool.
You my good Sir, just touch my soul !! Just hyped for this journey and truly happy for your experience of fulfilling your rally dream ! / thanks for sharing and the superb video-editing you provides us !! 🎉
Good luck for your rallying mate. I find the steering rotation is really important in getting right to get the real rally car feel. Looking forward to more videos!
Just came across this video as I'm getting back into rally (I used to watch in the 90s) and I thought "that guy's familiar". I used to watch your Loam Ranger channel Great to see the new channel
Just stumpled upon your channel - fantastic video! Especially the message about different rally sims. Just play what you enjoy and let others do their thing. I also noticed the stall thingy in many games. Somehow, it seems to be really difficult to simulate and transfer low-end torque and slow speeds from the car to the surface. Looking forward to more videos from you!
OH MY WORD JACK FROM DIRTFISH!!???? I miss doing DirtFish Live with him. Hope they bring that back because the new game WRC is (imo) way better than DR2
Back in the days I played _a lot_ of rally games and also other racing games. When I became 18 and got my drivers license I drove my parents everywhere because I enjoyed driving. One time I drove my mother in winter and we had to go quite slow (40 km/h where 100 km/h is allowed) and we hit a patch of ice which I couldn't see, because it was covered by snow. My reaction kicked in immediately without thinking - countersteering, lifting the gas until I had some grip again etc. I caught the car without issues and my mother didn't even notice and was surprised why I had to stop and take a breather. Iirc I didn't even have a force feedback wheel at the time, but the sims were pretty good already. Don't know if I had the guts to go flat out through a forrest though. 🙈
Thanks for your insights on how skills from rally games translate into real life driving. I'm really inspired by your motivation and determination to make your dream come true. I wish you all the best in your journey and thanks for setting a great example for other aspiring sim racers(myself included) to race in real life❤ Thanks from another guy called Ryan, from Singapore.
So, I have been practicing since Dirt 4 in Dirtfish from Argentina and in Dirt Rally 2.0 with the same Logitech G29 for a long time and... you say that if they invited me it is possible that I could take a real car for a spin rally? Would I even be able to time my times well enough if I could drive a really nice car like that? I need some references of real times in Dirtfish to break records from here. I'm a little impressed here and happy too!! On the one hand, for you, since being in Dirtfish is like a dream for any fan of the rally world, but this video allows me to put myself in the mindset that even an unknown Argentinian can undertake this beautiful journey. This lap you did put you on my map and the video looks pretty good and accurate regarding the quality of the editing and the content, so I want to wish you the best so that you can be the next legend in the Rally. I hope that one day I manage to break so many records that EA can call me to also be there along with many of my references in this world. I mean...somehow, I'll be called to stand alongside the best too! Haha Have a great time doing tricks Ryan! You are great!
First time I did rally styled driving was in an old RWD single cab truck with no doors, roll cage and a 4 speed gearbox out of a V6 with bald tires as well.and drive down a narrow curvy dirt road and I drove pretty fast 4 wheel sliding with throttle and brake control and using weight transfer to get prepared for the next corner and after that experience I started playing Dirt 2.0 and drove a the RWD cars and felt pretty similar
When you talk about the biggest hurdle part: For me its not only the G forces, its the spinning. The G forces actually "distract" you, they throw you around and make you dont notice the most important part: The spinning. When car yaws more or less due to your trail braking its the deal. The turning is decomposed in translation and rotation. Bottom line: I'm not complaining guys, but if youre training with sims, do it a lot and have fun. But here and there go to a good rental kart, it will improve even your sim racing experience :)
This is like the perfect video for me :D I have always wondered how it feels for a sim rally driver to be in a real rally car! And to know that the Sims are pretty accurate is super cool. One thing I always knew and now got confirmation is the force of the steering wheel. You can even see from watching videos of rally driver that the wheel has to be light. You need shift and keep steering with one hand. I never understand the obsession with heavy nm setups that could twist your hand off... I have a moza r9 and that is way more than enough for rally Sims. I would never use it at full strength.
Thanks! I agree. For cars like these, I don't think much more than 5nm is really needed. I do understand wanting the most dynamic range possible in a wheelbase though, and more force for those who like open-wheeled cars or classic racers... those things are a workout in real life, I hear!
I’m currently building a rally car for ARA. I’ve been driving on gravel most of my driving life because I lived in rural areas, and it was common to have to go places on primitive roads. I feel pretty confident about the driving portion, but less confident about the rules of rally, as well as listening to the codriver and learning what kind of pace notes work for me. I picked up a copy of dirt 2.0, and to be honest I think it’s far easier to drive in real life 😂. I have used it to learn what works for me and what doesn’t with pace notes as you can adjust a few things in the settings.
Can I ask about the ffb. You say it is light which is fair enough, what about feel how does the car, environment feel. Is it just a light feeling, can you feel the road ect .
Having driven by this place, it's so surreal to see it in such a well made video, good job man! I've been wanting to go there for a while but after this video I have to! Edit: Not to mention, I liked and subscribed within the first 3 minutes lol
Very great job man! For your next videos, it could be possible to fix a camera on the pedalbox to film your footwork and to include shots in full screen please? :)
The best way to test this would be to hook a sim racing wheel and pedals up to a real car, drive the real car with the exact same inputs and see if they end up in the same place after a few turns
This is awesome! I'm on the same journey down here in the states. So far i'm on track to hit my race this year in December🤞. Good look M8! I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
I watched the whole video and have two questions: 1. In real world I think you have the same wheel I've mounted on my G920 (bunch of mods including inverted pedals+springs)is that a momo wheel (two spikes mod0.3 alcantara) by any chance? 2. How do you feel about DD wheels being so strong FFB wise? I am quite shocked to see another fellow sim racer saying the G920 isn't too weak. If you mod it right (light-weight wheel, etc) its perfect for having a blast!
I don’t know what kind of amateur events they have in BC, but the Northwest Rally Association runs RallyCross events almost every month throughout the year here in the PNW. I am hoping to begin my first foray into rally with the 2025 winter series.
It's never going to be as immersive as driving a hot hatch round country lanes or if your blessed to own a rally car ,rally games and gran turismo are fun games to play for a blast now n then
wow i was very suprised that when i clicked on this video just out of curiosity and how close is rbr to real life ive seen the loam ranger. once again my two hobbies united
incredible video I love this content! please keep it up ! and maybe why not making a guide for settings in game ffb and all based on your real experience now :)
I think any rally game can help train you in some way whenever it’s just reflexes and correcting steering angle brakes etc but for me, after playing all the rally games over the years RBR definitely felt the most accurate. I’ve drove different rally cars on various rally days but also owned a FWD rally car that I competed in and I just couldn’t really properly recreate the feeling in DR2 as in steering with the brake pedal were as that’s exactly how I trained for it in RBR. The big thing that’s missing from all sims though is the seat of your pants feedback you get in a real car, I drive so much on felling IRL yet in sim I have to really on visual, sound and the limited feedback you get through a whee, no sim can compare to RL but they’re still bloody fun. Good luck with your IRL rallying dude and get ready to be constantly poor because rallying is a Money pit 😂
I once saw a guy from TH-cam saying if you have the budget try to avoid moza r9, go for r12 at least because more force means better. Who tf uses 12Nm to drive cars? Cars have power steering unless you plan to drive cars made before 1926 you don't need that much force. Provided you want realism of course.
I see three reasons to do that. The first one may seem not that important but it's hardware preservation. If you buy a R9 instead of a R12 or even R16/R21 you'll run it closer to 100% for some cars which mean more wear and heat on the base. The second one is precision, as using more powerful bases will often give you more subtle details even if you use the base at like 30-40% force feedback. And the third one is that, yes, most cars use power steering and don't require more than like 6-8Nm but there are some cars that need more. Older cars as you said are one example and you don't have to go that far back. F1 for example didn't have power steering until the 90s. And there are still categories that don't have power steering to this day, like Indycar. According to datas from the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, turn 3 requires a peak of 32.1 lb-ft of torque, that's 43.5 Nm, a value that literally no base on the market can output. Rental karts like the Sodi RT8 requires between like 12-17 Nm average, and other open wheels that don't have power steering are pretty common. That said to be fair, most of us sim-racers aren't built like a tank to support the 40+Nm that indycar drivers are prepared to and I think 90% of sim racers or even more would be okay with a base close to 10 Nm.
@@RedelaxYTWhen I came to CSL DD 8Nm from T300 was looking for some extra differences in force. Speed and responsiveness was noticeable immediately. Driving on road was quite more powerful but when I tried to turn wheels on gt3 car standing still that was the moment that I felt that my virtual wheels weight a lot. Then tired some VRS Tourers cars on Suzuka and going on the curbs made my whole alu rig shake like hell. And of course after some hit steering wheel was ripped from my hands (not prepared, haven't got strong grip). But maybe this VRS Peugeot 406 got something wrong with the FFB because other cars didn't shake the hell out of me in the same track situation.
I'm using a thrustmaster wheel and I have the ffb cranked all the way up just because if I need the wheel to unwind quickly I don't have to throw it like you would on a Logitech wheel. I like to have a heavier wheel because you feel much more road detail and any input you'd get is more easily felt through the wheel since you can't feel the g force on a Sim.
Do you compete in any of the clubs on Dirt2.0? I enjoy use it for training purposes as well. I currently race rally cross in Arizona. Would love to transition into stage rally. What’s your gamer tag?
I actually have gotten better, more confident in driving after playing 5 hours (I have over 20 hours on it) of GT7 knowing the basics and how the car behaves under certain conditions. Some of the techniques I struggled when I was learning how to drive, I practiced it in GT7 and I applied it in real life. Just sharing.
As you said, in real life, the car rotate more easily, and that s what make the diff between a simcad and hardcore sim. So rbr prepares you more to irl racing as the car rotate much more and is probably more difficult to catch it…
Ya I'd love to dive into that comparison. I will say though, there's one car in DirtRally 2.0 that by far matches my real-world experiences the best, and funny enough, it's the old 1990 Subaru Legacy GT. If you have the game, give it a try and let me know what you think. There's some magic sauce going on with that one.
Honestly there should be an option to disable stalling ingame (without enabling automatic). just never can have the feeling of clutch and gas in low RPM like in real life.
Thanks! The lesson was an investment, that's for sure (we paid out of pocket). We did a private full-day lesson, but the cost can be brought down considerably by doing a half-day, or full/half-day group program.
I *just* bought an abandoned RALLY CAR. For real. Here's the vid: th-cam.com/video/FdUMpLQjZDg/w-d-xo.html
It's silly for people to fight and gatekeep sims and simcades, they're all close enough to transfer skills with. The main thing is whichever you find more immersive/enjoyable for YOU.
No they're not. Basing your "skills" on most of the simcades would probably almost kill you in real life, for sure you would destroy a lot of cars if you want to actually compete and not just have fun. They can still help you with reaction times, but a realistic physics engine is the most important thing.
theres a night and day difference between dirt rally and rsfrbr with ngp physics
and there you have it, already 2 people gatekeeping. LOL.
The fact of the matter is (wait, that is a Biden quote, lol) that ANY of these games teach you skills you can transfer over to the real thing. Some people are just not able to adapt. Back in the day we learned many basics in Gran Turismo 2. At the time it was considered a simulation, not a simcade (which is a wrong take imo, the GT series was always simulation and always will be, how correct it gets certain things simply means how good of a simulation it is or isn't. They never set out to make a simcade and they never made a simcade. Quality of life features like in GT7 where people spin out and become transparent are just that, quality of life to make it easier, they are not what make it a simcade. ACC which is arguably not a simcade and a hardcore racing sim has you go through other cars in pits and on rolling start.... does that make it a simcade? lol. Anyway, back on point) and as I was saying, GT2 at the time was arguably the best racing sim we could get our hands on. It taught you so many things that did indeed transfer over to the real world. At the very minimum, it taught you racing lines and the actual tracks.
Now you go back to GT2, and it is horrendous compared to todays racing sims. So how then could we still adapt things we learned from it?
The answer is simple. There are a lot of skills that can be transferred over depending on the game, and that is all there is to it. How much and what each experience transfers may differ, and for those that want a 1 to 1 representation I also get it, they want to build muscle memory but they still need to understand that it all comes down to tyre selections, car setups, and what each sim focuses on.
The gatekeeping is real, and annoying.
I mean ofcourse I wouldn't go as far as saying "you can transfer Need For Speed HP 2010 Remastered" to the real thing, because all that game teaches you is that you can go at 300kmp and touch the handbreak on a large turn and the car will wonderfully turn through the corner. lol. That is a prime way to end yourself in real life. But if you aren't that bright as to know and understand what can be transferred to real life or not then sure, stay away from simcades, and even more so arcade racers.
Comes down to the personal experience of every person in the end.
I would say there is a lot to take away from any of these racers, and I would go even further that it is actually a good practice to play different ones at that. This will make your more adaptable and give you an entire understanding of all the different ways of handling. Like in real life. You learn one car and know how to push it hard, then enter another car, you will need some time to adjust. Its practically each time like a different experience. From the handling, to the weight distribution to the weight overall, to power transfer to the road on each car, to even simpler and more obvious things such the clutch. I mean even the clutch is so different from car to car you need a few minutes to adjust. My car has a much softer longer (if that is the way to explain it) clutch feeling. Has a larger distance for it to go and its pressure is a little more linear. My spouses car, well her clutch (newer car, mines is from 2004 hers is from 2021) feels like it has a shorter distance to press on it, is a little more grippy and it doesn't feel as linear, has a little more of a harder kick to it at the start. Then we can go into technologies, her car being new for example when you let go of the clutch it has a lock system that doesn't allow the car to roll back when you are uphill unless you let go of the break for a while for it to register, like 3 seconds or something, making starting in first gear on uphill much easier, my car you need to be much quicker from break to acceleration and then play with the clutch much sooner as it will straight away want to roll backwards on the uphill so as to make sure you do not move back but also don't just abruptly start.
Point being, there are so many differences even in real life.
Gatekeepers are just immature people that need to defend their practice end of the day. Sure there are those that again come down to personal experience and can't adapt different skill sets to the real thing, but more often than not its just defending their preferred choice and I would say the less adaptable you are the less you need to think of simracing as practice to begin with.
They are wrong on step one from the get go. And practicing to create muscle memory in those conditions is actually worse. Because end of the day NO sim racer no matter how good it is is actually 1 to 1.
There are cars in iRacing that simply do not match their real life counterpart as much as say the first Assetto Corsa. And vise versa.
Which brings us to the other lifelong argument between ACC and iRacing. Which is better for GT3? Neither and both. They use different tyre models that are based on tests on different tyre selections on different conditions to begin with. And the access of cars each team had in either case when they designed the games physics is different. So you can't say either is wrong. They both as a result kind of have a homogenous rersult. Their biggest difference being the breaks. iRacing for example has way too much break turning (when you start to break and turn the wheel slightly and use your feet more to turn the car) on every single car selection. Some of these do not feel anything like this in real life. ACC on the other hand seems like the cars it had more testing on had much more sophisticated ABS making it I would argue too good overall all around. Both are right and wrong, and there is an overlap.
And that says it all. That is how much these people gatekeep. They would sit there and btch and whine over ACC vs iRacing, which are both top notch racing sims. What do you expect them to do with regards to simcades? lol. Its sad to see.
Me? Personally? The more games I race on the better. And ultimately this increases your all around skills. And I don't even care to transfer my skills into the real thing. But if I did, I would be in a rude awakening realising that neither iRacing or ACC can be transferred 1 to 1 to the real thing and you will ALWAYS need to adjust. If your core understanding however is more well rounded, well you need less time to adjust and are more adaptable. Plain and simple.
With said example, I enjoyed both iRacing and ACC. I simply don't play much iRacing not because it wasn't fun, it actually was I enjoyed it a lot (and that damage model is awesome, feels like you are ACTUALLY crashing when you go off track) but mostly because it has obnoxiously bad predatory practices. Its ridiculous. It is not worth its price range not by a longshot. Their practice is so bad, I had subbed for a month, I cancelled the sub of course so it doesn't just charge me every month when it sees fit, and I had 7 days left sub time. They done some patch update 7 days before my subscription ended, and the game would not update and tell me I do not have the latest patch to play, when I went to download it would say I am not allowed to upgrade due to my sub model. Talk about a bunch of stingy bstrds. That was the most abysmal practice I have ever seen. So they practically robbed me of my last week of subscription and I couldn't get the update because apparently I when I subbed I supposedly subbed for the previous content and had to be "greenlit" for a sub renewal to get new content? Talk about stingy. I could of gone around it and activated the autosub I assume, get the update, then deactivate the autosub again..... But I found a better solution. Its the little uninstall button. Works wonders.
Buuuut, yeah... The gist of it is, play what you like. It doesn't matter. If you are incapable of adapting different skills to the real thing, again, you shouldn't be trying to transfer simracing to real no matter how good the racing sim you are on is, because it ALL needs adapting and the ability to transfer concepts rather than a 1 to 1 rendition. Those that say otherwise are just convincing themselves at this point. I even heard pro racers that are rabid iRacing fans defend iRacing so much and it is sooo good and their go to bla bla bla. After years they say they can't keep turning a blind eye to its shortcomings. lol. So you were not 100% honest? Right. Nice to know. Others straight up just admit iRacing is their goto choice, but it is still definitely not 1 to 1 and are more honest about it.
For the rest of us that don't even care about going into real life racing, it honestly doesn't matter. If you are on real roads and are going over the speed limit to begin with you are already doing something wrong and need to be OFF the road. Those that want to go into real life racing, they will have a rude awakening when realising that no matter their choice, there will always be differences they need to adapt to and learn, and it will take time.
You barely made your comment and within hours there are already 2 people gatekeeping. Says a lot mate. But I am with you.
Yep what actually matter is you learn the basics of how a real life works
No matter what game you play, they won't be identical to real life.
If you apply the basics of racing line you learn on mario kart, of iracing, its not the game you played that will make you good at irl.
The principles of how the car will respond/ how you should react and learn from it to apply on real life is what will make difference.
Ofc you will learn way more from iracing than Mario kart, but Your sim gears or sim game still a game after all
Irl will be different regardless. What will help you its what you learned from playing the game and try to apply on real life.
Any racing driver/ sim driver will tell you that, just search 🔎
@@DCFHazardRebornChannelwow you have time to loose bro…😅
For someone who had a thousand hours of playing a bunch of rally games (Dirt Rally, EA WRC, WRC7,10 etc) you are very lucky to have that sort of immersion in your area. We don't have much opportunity to slide around cars without having to buy a car.
I hear ya. It's about a 13 hour drive from where we live, to DirtFish. We definitely had to make a trip out of it! Super fortunate to have a place like that available on the same side of the continent though.
It's also 1100 for a half day but still cool none the less.
I would do it if I had the expendable income.
just fyi, there are multiple "rally schools/experiences" throughout the us. Just about wherever you are, you can find one within a days drive.
Imagine living on an island 30km big haha
I'd have saved up and bought something to rally years ago if I wasn't waterlocked
You play ea wrc? -1000 respect
BeamNG dev here, would love to see your opinion on Rally in the game I work on :D!
I’m building up my first proper PC rig next week, so once it’s all dialled in, I definitely want to try what you guys have been working on over there. I’ve heard good things!
I'm excited to see where Beam NG goes with rally for sure!
Where's our latest update? You spoiled us over the years! IMO BeamNG is by far the best Rally experience you can have.
Rally in beam is awesome, just lacking full stages
@@thetwitchywarlock hopefully they eventually add proper rally activities like they have drag or track ones, with callouts and stages and everything. I think they will one day
Dude if they gave me car number 43 i would just break down into pieces... I don't think i could handle it. LOVING the journey my man
Ive been playing rally sims all my life such as D3 to the newest WRC game. and last year i went from ingame to irl, but not rally only rallycross. and let me tell you that the fact that game knowledge translates to irl knowledge is genuinely true. ive reached P1 almost every HEAT ive done in my good old Opel astra 1.8 sport, without me having played those rally sims i wouldnt be able to spring the car into a slide even tho its a un-tuned un-modded FWD car. its actually awesome how close they resemble eachother.
That’s awesome to hear! Nice work 🤘
@@RyansRoadToRally thanks dude, good luck on your journey to the rally world aswell!
I was a co pilot of friend of mine a few years back. He just invited me for an event, I said "ok" in the same second. First few drives and my stomach was inside out even that I was on passenger with some fast street drivers and cars before. But man, this mate got Impreza gt (so no sti) but on racing tyres. The level of grip was impossible comparing to road car. Then we got something like P5, was over 30 cars, and we was in the middle of 4wd turbo class.
So I just asked:
-man, that was sick, really good and fast driving, compared to the other pack also. So for how long you are doing this?
-Well, that was my first time on stage, got this car for about a month maybe, did about 100 kilometers on roads before today.
-what the hell, no way! It must be something more that that!
-I played some games before on wheel.
Remember that year before, he was hyped on the first Dirt rally coming out.
Then I learned how sim racing can be important to be better driver. And in the same year got my first wheel and started playing.
Still don't own any fun car but simracing still gets smile on my face.
@@wisniatd hell yeah bro, sounds like an awesome story! you should really try out sim racing for yourself if you havent already, its pretty fun
Best of luck! I'm super happy to hear someone was able to make the game to irl move and not only enjoy it, but also find success. I hope nothing but the best for you and stay safe out there :)
Arguably one of the biggest problems of "simcades", as the more hardcore fans call them, is that they make the IRL problems notably more difficult than the actual problems. This probably comes from a desire to balance the fact that since you're not in any real danger or that can't represent other real problems so they make you pay more attention to the issues they can replicate, but it comes at the cost of feeling natural and authentic, so I'm not surprised you found out that some elements were easier
Absolutely!
In DiRT RALLY 2, a lot of elements are actually quite harder.
IRL you also have so much extra input to react to compared to a sim (you feel acceleration, rotation, the tires on the ground)
@@TacoTechnica same goes for drifting, I find it ironically harder in games than in real life. Feeling movement in your gut, and having over 200 degree field of vision, makes night and day difference.
None of them are harder in Dirt Rally 2.0 nor in any rally simulator except maybe original Richard Burns Rally without NGP physics. It's just that persons who tried real-life driving, who are trying simracing for the first time, get the inertias and speeds wrong. There's no sense of speed at all in most proper rally simulators. The first time I tried Assetto Corsa with a stock Porsche in the Nordschleife coming from rally sims I immediately thought "how is this supposed to be realistic" after going off the road straight away as the car wouldn't steer at all. That's until I realized the speeds at which I was going, my surprise was as huge as the number in the speedometer. Of course my brain is used to narrow forest roads that look blazing fast even with a Trabant, and to low-geared cars. So the engine noise on the Porsche, the time between gear shifts, and the surroundings confused my brain into thinking I was going slow and that therefore I should have the grip to make the corner. This is what happens to every person who tried rally IRL when they try RBR/NGP or something like that. They don't realize how fast they are going, go too fast into the corner, have no grip at all as a result, and they go off. On the other hand, world-class Nikolay Gryazin has as channel playing RBR/NGP regularly and he's stated many times how many things are way simpler in RBR/NGP than in real life, and one can see in fact how aggressive real cars sometimes behave but not in RBR/NGP. And in any other rally game, even less.
Can confirm, that sound never gets old. Had my Version 5 STI for 11 years now. Purchased as a road car, built into a rally car. Next rally in just under 3 weeks.
Good luck in your rally buddy.
Also love that boxer sound. Every time a Subaru is passing me always wait for the pure music coming from exhaust, event the forester looking like liitle family wagon for soccer moms and going on low rpm (like normal non car people drive) gets smile on my face because this is quiet but still crazy sounding low roar :)
Lancer is more powerful (and no need to discuss that) but the Impreza sounds a lot faster and meaner.
Played RBR for years and right after drivibg licence i went to check out n evo9 on gravel. I felt quite like "i know what happens cuz its similar like in game". Spun a few times, but thats because setup of this evo didnt suit me (rear brakes quite high, but ok few laps and you adapt). In general you take easily copy basics from RBR into real, but please leave a bit room because you know... it will be different, but you will quickly recognize situations and manage them if you dont overdo
I managed to save myself from a minor accident using skills I learned in dirt rally 2.0 there definitely is a transfer of skills just from an understanding of the physics point of veiw
This is a great video (your explanations of the sensations in game/reality are excellent), awesome that you got to experience DirtFish in real life too 😀
Thanks 🍻 DirtFish is quite a magical place!
Just putting it out there. super bummed they didnt put this absolutley amazing location back into EA WRC, major miss by them. Spent so much time testing and dialing in the car setting here. Very cool hearing how it translates in IRL, and im excited to see your journey so i can cheat off someone lol Dirt Fish is also killing it with the WRC coverage these days, SICK!
I CAN'T BELIEVE A VIDEO LIKE THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Man, I remember when I bought my WRX after driving sims for years. Up to that point I had only driven normal passenger cars, had only driven stick once when I was a teenager. I don't care what anyone says, the skills you learn in these games will absolutely help apply those techniques to a real car. The key is to make sure the sims don't make you overconfident. Remember that you're driving a real car, with real parts, that can really break. Remember to keep your own safety and that of those around you as your top priority. Don't push it until you're confident in your real skills and you'll be just fine! Good luck on your journey my man, wish I had the time/resources to do the same!
Solid words of advice! I keep hearing the term “mechanical sympathy” from rally drivers. As in: you’ve gotta have some mechanical sympathy for your car, otherwise that thing is gonna break immediately if you don’t play nice with it. That’ll be an expensive lesson to learn, coming from the sim 😅
@@RyansRoadToRally Like my grandpa always told me, god rest his soul: "The turtle didn't beat the rabbit by being faster, the rabbit just threw a rod by driving like dipshit."
I think the thing this is missing about the force feedback is that the ffb from the wheel base isn't meant to only simulate the forces at the wheel, it's meant to simulate the g-forces as well (which, as you mentioned, are quite strong). Even in something like my Prius, which has super light steering, if I take an on-ramp with enough speed I'm going to feel a lot of weight in my arms and body trying to stop me from continuing to steer.
Since we don't have any g-forces in a sim, the wheel strength has to be a lot stronger to compensate for the overall lack of information.
Great video btw! Awesome that you got some sponsors, and an ambitious goal!
That makes total sense to me. Good call on that. The wheel really does need to be our main source of information for how the sim car is connected to the road.
@@RyansRoadToRally Also, most people have dogshit FFB settings to be fair... they leave the wheels force and wheel force waaaay up while they both need to be very very low and they don't up the suspension FFB which needs to be set very very high to feel what's going on... so the end result is a very heavy wheel with bad FFB that they're fighting against... personally with my FFB settings I don't need to force the wheel at all, ever... the wheel is light and easy to maneuver...
I got a wheel about a month or two back and was having the worst experiences with RWD cars but once I watched a few tutorials on weight transfer and other general tips I found myself spinning out less and controlling the car 100% better so its refreshing to see I wasn't the only one with this problem haha
So pumped for you, man! I love tagging along with your journey. Even learning some things along the way!
Jack is awesome! I raced a bunch of DirtRally 2.0 with him back during covid when everything was shut down and Dirtfish was running a Twitch channel. The second they started offering classes again I booked a private lesson with Jack and had a blast.
One word of advice when practicing in the sim. Drive the line you would drive in real life, not the optimal line for the game. While driving the optimal fast line for the stage may get you on the top of the leaderboards, you will not have the rally stage memorized the type of lines you will be driving in real life. Practice and perfect the late apex line as that will keep you on the road. If you want to finish first, first you must finish.
I am and have been multiple times the Australian khanacross champion. Been in it for over 8 years so i'd like to say i'm very good at rally driving. I play rally 2 on my basic logitech sim at home and would like to say yes. It is great practise and transfers to real life. However... only in the sense that you play it NOT to crash (not to go super fast). Its much harder to drive in it than it is in real life as you cant feel the car, gauge height and all sorts of things properly. It is overall great practise
What a great concept, to go from sim rally to the real world. I like the idea of matching your planned sim rig upgrades to the rally car as best as possible. If you end up with a motion simulator it would be interesting to compare accelerometer data from the real car and see how close it actually is (aside from g-force obviously).
That's a great idea! I'd love to do that comparison. Cheers
Dirt rally gave me the skills to make awsome real life saves in my car. Lost it a few times in the wet and snow and the reflexes to countersteer, stay on throttle and straighter the car are all thanks to Dirt Rally.
Thing I noticed is that many RL drivers had very little understanding of how car works and how physics affect their handling, probably because of all computerized assists in modern cars. This means they lack knowledge to deal with situations when computer dampening is no longer enough.
I had to explain to coworker what TCS is, and why his car "loses power" on curves, despite him flooring gas. Then I had to talk him out of disabling TCS, because he did not understand why you should not floor gas when turning. Secret behind fifth-gen Mustangs being so crash-prone suddenly became obvious to me.
And try to explain to anyone, why slamming brakes makes their steering worse. You'll get blank stare 90% of time.
@@kireta21My first two cars got absolutely 0 assists, even no abs. First car was only on summer tyres and it was really hard to drive it on snow (knew that so was going really slow, to know the limits of grip). And thanks to that I was intentionally learned to lift the brake when locking up, feeling the grip coming back after the wheels started to rotate after lock. Or understood understeer and oversteer in rwd and fwd. On second car got lower coilovers and springs, low profile new tyres, and that make car feel more like gokart, getting back grip on dry tarmac was quite brutal.
Of course going to abs tcs esp (and heavier) car I was forced to keep the wheel steady on corners and not countersteering (tcs was much quicker than me so started going opposite direction :D) and to hit hard and keep brake pressed when need emergency stop. But these fist two cars learned me a lot about the grip issues and how important the good tire is.
I am 50 and live in Ontario, Canada. Back when I was learning to drive (and unofficially before), parents brought their kids to parking lots (in different weather conditions) to learn how the vehicle will react.
@@shawndixon4536 It's something I still do everytime I buy a different car, during either heavy rain or snow. I find a mostly empty parking lot, pray to god there's no cops watching, and go over basic weight transitions for a few minutes.
Saved my ass more than once
@@kireta21 true I learned to drift, trail brake and also how easy it is to crash on sims. All translated very well to RL driving. And always drive with DSC off on my car. Assist are NOT for spirited driving.
As a person who did AsettoCorsa and iRacing etc. and then went to a real track event in a couple of cars ... I agree with this video, driving real cars is easier in many ways, especially the "bum" feeling, you can slide by feel, you feel the grip at the front, the back, in general you get 3x more information about what is going on in a real car. The rest is pretty 1 to 1 if you have half decent setup at home. I was running higher tier fanatec in VR at that point, but that was years ago so things definitely changed.
Yep, I am going to follow this journey of yours. Thank you!
used to watch you for mtb vids and slowly fell out of it but just got back into cars and was suprised to see that your the same guy glad to see u doin well and will be supporting this cool journey :D
Absolutely love this! As a sim rally fanatic with who works for a race team, but doesn't have the budget to go racing, I've always wondered how the skills transferred.
Good luck dude!!!!
Love what your setting out to do with your channel. Wish you the best of luck! Every sim racers dream!
Thanks so much!!
Sometimes, YT recommend a jewel content like this. Subscribed! Love it!
This is awesome! I remember you had mentioned doing this when we spoke during the Mudlark Rally. Subbed
I did the same, but took my WRX to SCCA RallyCross event in OK. Got completely hooked.
my main issue with sims is that, when I get in my car, I can feel what the car will do, where the weigh is resting, If I have good grip, If I can push a bit more. In the sim, all of this can only be relatively estimated using theoretical knowledge, which is cool, but it's not what you want to think of when you are driving
Damn, this video is so good and so important as well! I'm so tired of always telling people they're wrong when they say that "oh, DR 2.0 and WRC and all that is crap, it's just arcades, has nothing to do with actual driving, boohoo", because I have done some co-driving for a friend of mine who later got into these sim games and always praised it to the skies on how realistic it was... Also there's this video of I think Petter and Oliver Solberg trying out I think EA WRC and they both loved it as well! Well, now we also have it the other way around, in their case it was trying out a game after real experience, you did the opposite, you have tons of in-game experience and went to try out an actual rally car for the first time and once again confirmed how close it is... I'll just be directing people to this video from now on when they say nonsense such as "those games aren't even close to reality"... I mean you drove the actual car that's been put into the game, so there's pretty much no better comparison... Thank you so much for this video and good luck on your journey which I will definitely follow from now on (this is the first video I've seen from you by the way), you just got a new subscriber! ✌🏻
just realized i recognises this guy, THE LOAM RANGER, great work, keep it up
Recently, as the online support for Gran Turismo Sport went down, I told myself I’m going to do all the single-player stuff the game has. I did the driving school and the track experience with a wheel until I got all gold. My good god, did that actually make me a better driver in real life and in games! I have noticed that I have gained notable time on many tracks, not just in GT but in other games like Assetto Corsa Competizione, F1, even Dirt Rally, and more.
I live in a remote place in Eastern Europe with a lot of empty roads around me, and I like to let my car rip through them. I have noticed that I have less fear on real roads as well. I do stuff at much higher speeds, brake later, take better lines, and know better when to let the car coast and when to step on the gas.
Gran Turismo is no sim racer, but the lessons it teaches you are real and apply to real cars, and I think that’s pretty cool.
That’s awesome! The fundamentals definitely seem to carry over well.
What an amazing video mate. In 11 minutes you practically went over everything I was interested in knowing. That is called doing it right.
I have been having so much fun lately with WRC. I am a longtime Dirt player and I think WRC is fantastic!
You my good Sir, just touch my soul !! Just hyped for this journey and truly happy for your experience of fulfilling your rally dream ! / thanks for sharing and the superb video-editing you provides us !! 🎉
As a new racecar driver I’m so glad that someone else is finding sims useful.
This second channel is underrated fr fr
Good luck for your rallying mate. I find the steering rotation is really important in getting right to get the real rally car feel. Looking forward to more videos!
That's a good suggestion. Definitely seems to make a big difference.
Awesome series ! Very excited to follow along. Great content as always :)
Just came across this video as I'm getting back into rally (I used to watch in the 90s) and I thought "that guy's familiar". I used to watch your Loam Ranger channel
Great to see the new channel
As it turns out, there are a lot of us mountain biking rally fans out there! It’s a good club to be in 🤟
@@RyansRoadToRally prob something to do with going fast off-road 😂
Man this is so cool, if the car at the end is what I think it is then it's one of my favorite rally cars of all time
Lets hope it's the one!
Excited for you and I can’t wait to follow along!
Just stumpled upon your channel - fantastic video! Especially the message about different rally sims. Just play what you enjoy and let others do their thing.
I also noticed the stall thingy in many games. Somehow, it seems to be really difficult to simulate and transfer low-end torque and slow speeds from the car to the surface.
Looking forward to more videos from you!
OH MY WORD JACK FROM DIRTFISH!!???? I miss doing DirtFish Live with him. Hope they bring that back because the new game WRC is (imo) way better than DR2
Back in the days I played _a lot_ of rally games and also other racing games. When I became 18 and got my drivers license I drove my parents everywhere because I enjoyed driving. One time I drove my mother in winter and we had to go quite slow (40 km/h where 100 km/h is allowed) and we hit a patch of ice which I couldn't see, because it was covered by snow.
My reaction kicked in immediately without thinking - countersteering, lifting the gas until I had some grip again etc. I caught the car without issues and my mother didn't even notice and was surprised why I had to stop and take a breather. Iirc I didn't even have a force feedback wheel at the time, but the sims were pretty good already.
Don't know if I had the guts to go flat out through a forrest though. 🙈
Thanks for your insights on how skills from rally games translate into real life driving. I'm really inspired by your motivation and determination to make your dream come true. I wish you all the best in your journey and thanks for setting a great example for other aspiring sim racers(myself included) to race in real life❤ Thanks from another guy called Ryan, from Singapore.
So, I have been practicing since Dirt 4 in Dirtfish from Argentina and in Dirt Rally 2.0 with the same Logitech G29 for a long time and... you say that if they invited me it is possible that I could take a real car for a spin rally? Would I even be able to time my times well enough if I could drive a really nice car like that? I need some references of real times in Dirtfish to break records from here. I'm a little impressed here and happy too!! On the one hand, for you, since being in Dirtfish is like a dream for any fan of the rally world, but this video allows me to put myself in the mindset that even an unknown Argentinian can undertake this beautiful journey.
This lap you did put you on my map and the video looks pretty good and accurate regarding the quality of the editing and the content, so I want to wish you the best so that you can be the next legend in the Rally. I hope that one day I manage to break so many records that EA can call me to also be there along with many of my references in this world. I mean...somehow, I'll be called to stand alongside the best too! Haha Have a great time doing tricks Ryan! You are great!
First time I did rally styled driving was in an old RWD single cab truck with no doors, roll cage and a 4 speed gearbox out of a V6 with bald tires as well.and drive down a narrow curvy dirt road and I drove pretty fast 4 wheel sliding with throttle and brake control and using weight transfer to get prepared for the next corner and after that experience I started playing Dirt 2.0 and drove a the RWD cars and felt pretty similar
Great video. Simrace community can be very toxic sometimes.
Just found this channel again. Epic. Subbed. Really well made video
Thanks! Next vid should be out this weekend 🤟
Great Video! Looking forward to more!
Glad you enjoyed it!
i bet it teaches you a lot but never the balls you jeed to be an actual rally hero thats what i admire the most
Great vid! I am also in Alberta, working on a car for next year as well!
OK, you've got my attention. Subbed with anticipation.
When you talk about the biggest hurdle part:
For me its not only the G forces, its the spinning. The G forces actually "distract" you, they throw you around and make you dont notice the most important part: The spinning. When car yaws more or less due to your trail braking its the deal. The turning is decomposed in translation and rotation.
Bottom line: I'm not complaining guys, but if youre training with sims, do it a lot and have fun. But here and there go to a good rental kart, it will improve even your sim racing experience :)
well done mate, Really impressive for first time in a rally car
Thanks! Much appreciated.
This is like the perfect video for me :D I have always wondered how it feels for a sim rally driver to be in a real rally car! And to know that the Sims are pretty accurate is super cool.
One thing I always knew and now got confirmation is the force of the steering wheel. You can even see from watching videos of rally driver that the wheel has to be light. You need shift and keep steering with one hand. I never understand the obsession with heavy nm setups that could twist your hand off... I have a moza r9 and that is way more than enough for rally Sims. I would never use it at full strength.
Thanks! I agree. For cars like these, I don't think much more than 5nm is really needed. I do understand wanting the most dynamic range possible in a wheelbase though, and more force for those who like open-wheeled cars or classic racers... those things are a workout in real life, I hear!
You're living the dream Ryan!
I’m currently building a rally car for ARA. I’ve been driving on gravel most of my driving life because I lived in rural areas, and it was common to have to go places on primitive roads. I feel pretty confident about the driving portion, but less confident about the rules of rally, as well as listening to the codriver and learning what kind of pace notes work for me. I picked up a copy of dirt 2.0, and to be honest I think it’s far easier to drive in real life 😂. I have used it to learn what works for me and what doesn’t with pace notes as you can adjust a few things in the settings.
That's definitely what I thought at first as well haha. "Why can't I stay on the damn road?!".
Holy shit I just found out were I've seen you before! You're that Enduro mtb guy!
Always loved watching your Loam Ranger videos when I still rode!
Cool. Pretty hyped about getting a cammus C5 with simtuito pedals. Can't wait to get some skills
Can I ask about the ffb. You say it is light which is fair enough, what about feel how does the car, environment feel. Is it just a light feeling, can you feel the road ect .
Having driven by this place, it's so surreal to see it in such a well made video, good job man! I've been wanting to go there for a while but after this video I have to!
Edit: Not to mention, I liked and subscribed within the first 3 minutes lol
Very great job man! For your next videos, it could be possible to fix a camera on the pedalbox to film your footwork and to include shots in full screen please? :)
Sounds like a good idea to me! Thanks
@@RyansRoadToRally Great, thank you very much! :D
The best way to test this would be to hook a sim racing wheel and pedals up to a real car, drive the real car with the exact same inputs and see if they end up in the same place after a few turns
This is awesome! I'm on the same journey down here in the states. So far i'm on track to hit my race this year in December🤞. Good look M8! I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
Thank you, youve motivated and inspired to try this again. Much love
Just came across your videos and I have to say, very Rad Ryan, very Rad indeed 👌🏼
do you clutch everytime you handbrake at lowspeed in game? i used to not do that in rbr and id stall all the time, hopefully this helps
Makes me super excited to give dirt rally 2.0 a try with how close it is to the real thing
I watched the whole video and have two questions:
1. In real world I think you have the same wheel I've mounted on my G920 (bunch of mods including inverted pedals+springs)is that a momo wheel (two spikes mod0.3 alcantara) by any chance?
2. How do you feel about DD wheels being so strong FFB wise? I am quite shocked to see another fellow sim racer saying the G920 isn't too weak. If you mod it right (light-weight wheel, etc) its perfect for having a blast!
I don’t know what kind of amateur events they have in BC, but the Northwest Rally Association runs RallyCross events almost every month throughout the year here in the PNW. I am hoping to begin my first foray into rally with the 2025 winter series.
I live in WA, very close to the dirtfish compound. Not sure why I havent gone yet, just never is quite the right time
Cool Journey you're on. Maybe one day.... Subbed.
It's never going to be as immersive as driving a hot hatch round country lanes or if your blessed to own a rally car ,rally games and gran turismo are fun games to play for a blast now n then
Just found your video. Awesome. Will subscribe and learn. Thanks.
Thanks and welcome!
wow i was very suprised that when i clicked on this video just out of curiosity and how close is rbr to real life ive seen the loam ranger. once again my two hobbies united
incredible video I love this content! please keep it up ! and maybe why not making a guide for settings in game ffb and all based on your real experience now :)
Great vid, subscribed
Even if i have no interest in rally games unless someone makes a unique mechanic surrounding it, but i respect players who love this category.
I think any rally game can help train you in some way whenever it’s just reflexes and correcting steering angle brakes etc but for me, after playing all the rally games over the years RBR definitely felt the most accurate. I’ve drove different rally cars on various rally days but also owned a FWD rally car that I competed in and I just couldn’t really properly recreate the feeling in DR2 as in steering with the brake pedal were as that’s exactly how I trained for it in RBR.
The big thing that’s missing from all sims though is the seat of your pants feedback you get in a real car, I drive so much on felling IRL yet in sim I have to really on visual, sound and the limited feedback you get through a whee, no sim can compare to RL but they’re still bloody fun.
Good luck with your IRL rallying dude and get ready to be constantly poor because rallying is a Money pit 😂
Super awesome. I don't have a racing wheel nor a drivers license but I love Rally games. I'm trash at them tho.
It took forever for me to just stay on the road for half a stage in any rally game. Pretty serious learning curve!
if you were to rank dirt rally 2 ea wrc and rbr according to how close they are to irl how would you rank them top to bottom
Great vid 👏
I once saw a guy from TH-cam saying if you have the budget try to avoid moza r9, go for r12 at least because more force means better. Who tf uses 12Nm to drive cars? Cars have power steering unless you plan to drive cars made before 1926 you don't need that much force. Provided you want realism of course.
I see three reasons to do that. The first one may seem not that important but it's hardware preservation. If you buy a R9 instead of a R12 or even R16/R21 you'll run it closer to 100% for some cars which mean more wear and heat on the base. The second one is precision, as using more powerful bases will often give you more subtle details even if you use the base at like 30-40% force feedback. And the third one is that, yes, most cars use power steering and don't require more than like 6-8Nm but there are some cars that need more. Older cars as you said are one example and you don't have to go that far back. F1 for example didn't have power steering until the 90s. And there are still categories that don't have power steering to this day, like Indycar. According to datas from the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, turn 3 requires a peak of 32.1 lb-ft of torque, that's 43.5 Nm, a value that literally no base on the market can output. Rental karts like the Sodi RT8 requires between like 12-17 Nm average, and other open wheels that don't have power steering are pretty common.
That said to be fair, most of us sim-racers aren't built like a tank to support the 40+Nm that indycar drivers are prepared to and I think 90% of sim racers or even more would be okay with a base close to 10 Nm.
@@RedelaxYTWhen I came to CSL DD 8Nm from T300 was looking for some extra differences in force. Speed and responsiveness was noticeable immediately.
Driving on road was quite more powerful but when I tried to turn wheels on gt3 car standing still that was the moment that I felt that my virtual wheels weight a lot. Then tired some VRS Tourers cars on Suzuka and going on the curbs made my whole alu rig shake like hell. And of course after some hit steering wheel was ripped from my hands (not prepared, haven't got strong grip).
But maybe this VRS Peugeot 406 got something wrong with the FFB because other cars didn't shake the hell out of me in the same track situation.
I'm using a thrustmaster wheel and I have the ffb cranked all the way up just because if I need the wheel to unwind quickly I don't have to throw it like you would on a Logitech wheel. I like to have a heavier wheel because you feel much more road detail and any input you'd get is more easily felt through the wheel since you can't feel the g force on a Sim.
Do you compete in any of the clubs on Dirt2.0? I enjoy use it for training purposes as well. I currently race rally cross in Arizona. Would love to transition into stage rally. What’s your gamer tag?
What stuff did they do to the pos Subaru rally car to make it survive one afternoon?
Wouldnt you want more front break bias for faster rotation? Having more in the back will straighten the car out
number 43? i believe in you. subbed
I actually have gotten better, more confident in driving after playing 5 hours (I have over 20 hours on it) of GT7 knowing the basics and how the car behaves under certain conditions. Some of the techniques I struggled when I was learning how to drive, I practiced it in GT7 and I applied it in real life. Just sharing.
As you said, in real life, the car rotate more easily, and that s what make the diff between a simcad and hardcore sim. So rbr prepares you more to irl racing as the car rotate much more and is probably more difficult to catch it…
Ya I'd love to dive into that comparison. I will say though, there's one car in DirtRally 2.0 that by far matches my real-world experiences the best, and funny enough, it's the old 1990 Subaru Legacy GT. If you have the game, give it a try and let me know what you think. There's some magic sauce going on with that one.
Man this is so cool I wish I could do what your doing I’m a big sim racer fan
Honestly there should be an option to disable stalling ingame (without enabling automatic). just never can have the feeling of clutch and gas in low RPM like in real life.
How much are the lessons? :))
I will surely be following you towards your jourey one of the coolest videos I've watched in a while!
Thanks! The lesson was an investment, that's for sure (we paid out of pocket). We did a private full-day lesson, but the cost can be brought down considerably by doing a half-day, or full/half-day group program.
Realistic or not. WRC 2 Extreme on PS2 was peak childhood memories.
Subbed! I want to do this! Best of luck and I'll be following along
Really cool vid :D
David Perel(GT3 driver) once said sim racing is like running on a treadmill, still a lot of the same practices and techniques