Learn about the (REAL) history of the Library of Alexandria: th-cam.com/video/dnZ3PbjhanE/w-d-xo.html&t Learn about the intriguing history of Charlemagne: th-cam.com/video/CGHNTx4Zh-w/w-d-xo.html&t Learn about the history of the Catholic Inquisition: th-cam.com/video/UOJojMdSy48/w-d-xo.html&list=PLecHWD9NtQqrRReczL-TeSpC4AkzRwvde&index
I love your name! I was working and one of our Spanish - speaking clients' name was Hipatia and I looked it up. Our son is Archimedes (Arquímedes) so it would be perfect! ❤️
Hypathia a great women scholar belong to a great civilization. Which is destroyed by abrahamic religion Christianity. Respect to that women. From the only ancient civilization left the vedic civilization.
@@chandanawale4599 I wasn’t destroyed by Abrahamic religions and it wasn’t some great civilization. Rome was collapsing due to barbarian invasions and slavery was still around
I adore how concise and well put together this was. Thank you for taking the time to collect the closest to factual accounts of Hypatia as seemingly possible.
Hypatia is one of my personal heroines. Her astute thinking, intellect and curiosity in pursuing to expand her own knowledge all the while teaching her students is incredible. Not sure if anyone can classify her as being ahead of her time, but it's fun to think that she was to a certain extent. Man, to have a time machine to go back just to engage in philosophical debate/discussion. That would be so epic! Thank you for uploading this video!
I just watched the movie Agora, and searched this out as my questioning soul urges me to learn more about what I experience. Life is rarely so simple as to be portrayed accurately in a short simple tale. There is always more to the story and I love what you've posted here. It's urging me to dig even deeper.
@@ancientmage2669 If that is really so, then why Orestes even approached for her counsel in the first place? Why the previous bishop(the one *before* Cyril) had never caused any trouble for her? Turns out Hollywood is not the best source of historical information.
@@Progamermove_2003 Copernicus didn't suffer anything (it's generally agreed what he feared was being ridiculed by other scientists, not anything from the church) and Galileo was placed under house arrest and forced to recant for thinking it was a good idea to troll the Pope and doing bad science.
Not only did many of the Christians not consider Neoplatonists to be polytheists, but many Neoplatonists didn't care too much for the worship of pantheons from my understanding. Ammonius Saccas for instance regarded polytheism as the religion of the masses and of unthinking people.
@@WordsofHarmony While this is true, my point was being that it would not have mattered whether or not she was a Christian. They would have killed her regardless. They perceived her as aiding and abetting a political enemy. She wasn't killed for being a non-Christian.
Abrahamic religion like Christianity and Islam are murder of many civilization. Today all the places where Greece and other civilization people live there people are converted to Islam and Christian. And you known the irony that here murders Christian write here history. Hypathia a brave women who give here life so that here people can live here civilization can live sadly destory by abrahamic cult known as Christian.
Gibbon's account of her death is horiffic. After dragging her naked through the streets of Alexandria, she was skinned and dissected by Cyril's henchmen in the church.
That was normal for Christians. The Pilgrims in America did essentially the same to the Native American chief Metacomet who the Pilgrims called "King Phillip". He was drawn and quartered by horses pulling in four directions and each of the four limb quarters was hung at the four entrances to the town and his head was put on a stake, at first displayed in the town square and then moved to a storefront.
I am not much an expert on neoplatonism at all but it reminds me of the analytical school, specifically indirect realism. Since both kind of make a distinction between the 'real' world and the mind.
An a nonreligious skeptic, I ignore the anti-Christian propaganda and prefer to care about the historical facts. Why did a mob of political supporters of one civic leader murder the prominent supporter of another civic leader? The answer is because a member of their political faction had been murdered first and they were out for revenge. Both factions were led by Christians, so religion had nothing to do with it. Hypatia was a known supporter of the Prefect Orestes and a known opponent of his political rival the Bishop Cyril. One of Cyril's followers hurled a rock at Orestes' head in a riot and so Orestes had him arrested and tortured. The man died as a result. So an angry mob of Cyril's supporters seized Hypatia and killed her in revenge. It was politics, pure and simple. There is no indication that it was because Hypatia was a pagan. In fact, we don't actually know what her religion was. There is also no evidence that it was because she was a woman. And that wouldn't make much sense anyway given that just a few years later another famous female pagan philosopher, Aedisia, flourished in Alexandria with no problems from angry mobs. Nor is there any evidence it was because she was a mathematician and astronomer. Attempts at making this a case of hatred of women, hatred of science or hatred of learning are almost entirely modern fantasies, though they seem to get repeated endlessly, especially online. Finally, despite what a certain astronomer claimed in a 1980s TV series on science, her murder had zero to do with the Great Library of Alexandria, which had ceased to exist before she was even born. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, because history rarely resolves itself into neat and pretty parables. PS She was a philosopher of Alexandria in Egypt, which at that stage was part of the Roman Empire. So not "a philosopher of Greece".
Then according to your thinking was she ,an Arab ,or a black African ,or a Jew or Gaul and so on.of she was Greek,born in Alexandria in the local paroikia.
History is filled with examples of the misogyny,tyranny,deception,and general corruption of organized religion.Esoecially Christianity I You sound like a Christian apologist.and are probably a right winger .
This 'modern' fantasy or later interpretations that see this as a story about pagan vs Christian or feminism versus man has both feet firmly in what had come down to Renaissance historians and thence to the Enlightenment. In itself it indicates that despite the " triumph" of Christian thought, enough " pagan" writers or surviving agnosticism honoured the nature of the philosophy but as is seen in the existence of texts such as "Against The Christians" severe polarization had become the norm. Yet if not for the period feminists and Enlightenment historians our understanding would be less. Because the historiography of the classical world is ever moving and changing and yes, observation of a subject changes what is observed, we can't hope to understand the 4th century as it was, we are reliant on survivals and on interpreting them. History would be a lot less interesting if we decided that only one fact could have the status of "truth". The reflections of the religious world since Platonism declined, is bound to leave its mark on the later interpretations. I'm mystified by the apparent lack of historical rigour in folk so adamant they wish to get to " the truth". Descending to nonsensical insults and assumptions of modern mud slinging has the taste of the same patterns apparent in the 18th century discourses on the subject. But without either the wit or erudition, gentlemen. Why should people who can neither spell nor understand basic academic principles worry about the accuracy or otherwise of a popular film. It would be interesting to hear the take on the historiography of an actual ancient or classical historian.
Even though a powerful Woman later acquitted the Bishop whose teachings inspired the mob to kill her It wasn't Man vs Woman, but Woman vs Woman conflict you Marxist
He was certainly wrong though I think most of the misinformation in the video clip when he talks about Hypatia and the Library of Alexandria is due to Sagan relying on outdated scholarship from the 1700-hundred plus adding in his own opinions.
Yeah, I highly doubt your statement that "the conflicts between pagans and Christians had no effect on her life or philosophical activity." You have absolutely no way of knowing that, and logically, as an educated, politically well-connected woman who played a large role in civic and public life, it would be very surprising if the religious and political violence and uprisings around her left her life and thinking unaffected.
That's not my claim but the claim of professor Maria Dzielska. "You have absolutely no way of knowing that, and logically, as an educated, politically well-connected woman who played a large role in civic and public life, it would be very surprising if the religious and political violence and uprisings around her left her life and thinking unaffected." Yeah, we don't know by absolute certainty but we can infer the best explanations based upon the evidence that is available. We know that the early Christians opposed pagan religious practices and since Hypatia did not care about any of that the Christian didn't mind her. What you just have written is baseless speculations that has no support from the primary sources.
1) By stating it without attribution, you make it your claim. 2) What about your evidence? You present not a single shred of it for this statement. And you call mine "baseless speculation"? We're both speculating, naturally. Almost everything about her is speculation; there is evidence of very little about Hypatia and proof of almost nothing. 3) Who is "we"? Speak for yourself. 4) "The Chrisitan didn't mind her." What exactly do you mean by this? Which Christian didn't mind her? Many Christians obviously "minded" her because they killed her! 5) In the absence of evidence we have to use our reasoning abilities. To do so is useful and profitable. Logically, because she lived in the midst of political and religious turmoil that enveloped the public, and she took part in that public life; because she was reportedly a top adviser to prefect Orestes, the city's most powerful non-church political official; because she was an intelligent and curious woman by all accounts, it would be almost impossible for these conflicts to have "no impact" on her life. Such a statement simply doesn't make sense. These impacts may have been of many kinds: through disagreements among family connections; through her political connections and activities; through economic consequences or shortages (political instability usually impacts trade and finances, even among the upper classes), through lively public debates; through unsafe conditions or violence on the streets; through her students getting caught up in various factions--I am simply arguing that her life was almost certainly impact in some way by the rivalry among these groups.
Bishop Theophilus campaign(which is the only thing the claim is referring to) was mainly judicial, it took place between 375 and 412 and Theophilus worked together with the civil authorities, not against them like Cyril had done so there was no political instability cause because of it. The campaign didn't mean that ww3 broke out in the city, there were no food shortages nor trade deficits and while there certainly did break out violence between Theophilus faction and pagans a few times during that time-span it was for the most part business as usual in Alexandria. Hypatia, as I mentioned earlier, was not part of this campaign nor was affected by it, she had both Christian and pagan students and there's no evidence that neither her nor her students taking part in any conflicts between pagan and Christian factions. - Hypatia continued to live like she had done before 375 and continued with her philosophical activeties like she had done before 375.
Nice! As an agnostic, I feel that a lot of people in the atheist community need to get better at history. The Hypatia myth is so ingrained in many anti-religious/anti-theistic thinkers. I'll point them to this video whenever Hypatia comes up...
Thank you for the dispassionate presentation of facts rather than narrative. Although I loved the recreation of Alexandria in the film, I could not appreciate the injection of modern narratives into the story of Hypatia.
What a wonderful extended look into an oft overlooked classical hero! A reminder that unfortunately our love and search for the T(ruth) so often comes into conflict with the accepted orthodox t(ruths) of a particular time and place. A regrettable motif of human history in general, yet without such tensions and struggles, what progress can be made? Cheers!
I am sorry about the criticism, but you might want to reduce your voice fry a little. You end most sentences with a long fry and an awkward pause. Sorry about that. I'm obviously a little obsessed with sounds. You aren't Swedish by any chance? *Vinker fra Norge.* Subscribed.
No worry, I have learned that I have a very loud voice and that I need to speak with a high pitch from my stomach and I have done away with the long fry at the end of sentences(well diminished it somewhat at least) as well as the awkward pauses. Your right my friend, I guess the change in tonality gave it away. Its fun to see that other Scandinavian have started to discover my channel.
English isn't his first language so you probably just have to adjust your ear to the Swedish accent. The more foreign accents you hear the easier it is to decipher them. Also, I think Swedes tend to use English that's more in the British style, so if you're not used to that it can take a little while to get used to.
Thank you Dan! For my next video Im thinking about doing a quick overview on the Knights Templars seeing as the first season of Knightfall is still going.
No thanks to humanity's infamous misogynist, femicidal patriarchy, especially during her time. Every time a female becomes too proficient that she can compete with a guy, men WILL ALWAYS find a way to "SILENCE" her. It's still happening now, especially in muslim & latin countries, korea, japan, among many others.
Feminists love using her story and applying feminist ideas to her and that time period. Hypatia was well respected and wasn’t seen as a threat because she was a woman
I searched it because I saw some factually incorrect videos with either a feminist or atheistic agenda behind them. This one is an exception, and the fact of the matter is that she was a Neo-Platonist, not an atheist, and her death has more to do with politics than her gender.
Are you aware that you begin with some confusion by saying she was born in the 4th century but the visual shows the date 415 A.D. which is in the 5th century? The importance of using the label "the One" was that it is essential for removing the anthropomorphic projections on all gods, including the Christian God.
John Gabriel Ibo Alexandria was a Greco-Roman colony so I guess you can say she’s Greek + Egyptian by born place & living. But I personally can’t say she’s roman .. hope someone know better reply and correct me if I’m wrong & thanks 🌸
Cyril spent more than half of his time defending the name and honor of one woman he never met in person and her name was Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. One guy named Nestorious, and others who are used as sources for this Hypatia narrative, thought that she shouldn’t be called the mother of God. Nestorious believed she was just the mother of a man. This Cyril who is historically and continuously falsely slandered stood up with his pen and went to war defending the honor of this one woman. All of the earliest sources for this Hypatia murder story by a Christian mob had vendettas against Cyril or Christianity- the very person and faith that fought to protect and defend the status of a PEASANT JEWISH GIRL that lived 400 years before them. Go to Egypt and visit one of these churches and you'll find that they spend half of their time with the name of a FEMALE named Mary on their mouth. The writings they use to sing about this female? Written by a Christian male named Cyril.
@@ififif2022 I've since studied a bit more, and must say, this is a very one sided narrative. Socrates Scholasticus was the only contemporary to write about it, but he was sympathizer to a sect of Christianity called the Novatians. The emperor at that time ordered Novation churches to be closed, and this task was to be executed by the Christian bishops throughout the empire. This likely made Socrates bitter. However, Socrates doesn't attribute the death of Hypatia to Cyril directly, but to a Christian mob. Indeed, tempers were hot at this time and it was like an environment of civil war. The pagans were bitter because the emperor was closing temples. The j-ewz were angry because the emperor wasn't allowing the rebuilding of temples. The j-ewz of Alexandria had just massacred Christians by tricking them into thinking their church was on fire. The Christians frantically came out in the middle of the night, and many of them were slaughtered. The pagan faction of the city was also at that time harboring themselves in temples, using the temples as bases to attack christians. The governor Orestes was being advised by Hypatia at the time, and did nothing about the massacres of the Christians that night. This was also likely because the j-ewz had the power to the shipping grain trade, and he didn't want to mess up relations. Hot tempered and justice seeking Christians took matters in their own hands. Cyril expelled the j-ewz involved in the massacre, and a justice seeking Christian mob, albeit in a seemingly unchristian like manner, sought to execute the adviser to Orestes, Hypatia. Again, Socrates doesn't state Cyril is directly responsible. Indeed, Cyril's writings (he has several million words worth of reading material available to us) state to act in the exact opposite manner. In his exegesis of the sons of Jacob getting retaliation for the rape of Dinah, Cyril denounce violence and retaliation by Christians. He does the same in his exegesis of Peter cutting of the ear of the soldier in Gethsemane. Also, during the Nestorian controversy, no one brings up this event, although it would have been excellent ammo to attack Cyril as a murderous villain. The Nestoria opponents of Cyril are utterly silent on the matter of Hypatia. The second source, Damascius, is the ONLY source who attributes the death of Hypatia directly to Cyril. He was indeed a bitter pagan writing 75-100 years after the event. He was a pagan philosopher who was living at a time when paganism was dying hard, to the point that he left Alexandria and Athens, going to Persia, because of the death of paganism. He bitterly attributes this death of paganism to Christians who he vehemently detested. He was anti-Christian to say the least,and Alexandrian Christianity was certainly at the top of his most hated list. The third source, John of Nikiu, writes several centuries after the event and again attribute the death to a Christian mob. He doesn't directly implicate Cyril, but does praise Cyril for his defense of Christianity against paganism (Cyril wrote a tome called "Against Julian" which refuted Emperor Julians work against Christianity. This also likely contributed heavily to the decline of paganism, and the bitterness of Damascius, the second source). Hope this helps.
One idea that no one entertains is whether Hypatia deserved her death. (Before anyone starts clutching their pearls, recall that many people would begrudgingly admit that the French aristocrats in 1792, say, "had it coming".) Elevated as a rationalist and feminist martyr, she has received a glossy shield of apologistic protection and is now a bipedal sacred cow, but we do not know her character and deeds. In the same way, everyone ignores Galileo's falseness and backstabbing and receives the interpretation of the inquiry into his science from biased sources. As well, the violence of the Alexandrian monks was not necessarily approved by the best elements in the local church. (See The Sayings of the Desert Fathers, editor Benedicta Ward.)
There were thousands of Hellenes in Alexandria: A time when Romans thought of war. Greeks thought of philosophy in Alexandria, they thought of thought itself. So imagine how many great female's Studied in Egypt? Plus: The University and Library had writers from doctors around the world from India, China, Egypt, and even Mesopotamia [ etc ] ... Don't use that title the greatest, because you were not there. It is important to note that there are many Ancient Greek women philosophers. I am Hellene, not Greek. There is an intelligent video to be made in English about Hypatia culture, and this isn't it. You shouldn't approach this video as history in the typical sense. Treat it as an interesting speculative documentary with some historical information thrown in. History is way more clear with a Hellenic classical education, and someone who speaks like a native Greek and not as an outsider/foreigner who learned Greek. No other small country can compare with Greece in terms of impact on human benefit. In the beginning... God created the Earth, and in the light blue waters, put a small ship to travel forever, in order not only to give birth but also to transfer great ideas all over the world ... He called that ship...HELLAS! 🐬 The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance. Herodotus.
ı wish she can able to see 21th century, she would be so happy... And ı wish ı (and everyone) learned women philosophers too, in our highschool education ect.
@ Cemre “I wish she can able to see 21st-century, she would be so happy...” Maybe she IS here now (reincarnation). You never know. And yes, I think she’d be very happy & excited to witness all the amazing technological advances - she’s probably crazy about cell phones, lol.
why are u citing tim o neil who has no qualifications and makes nonsensical false claims constantly? She was attacked in part by the Christian beliefs of her being a witch among other things which they wanted to eradicate and their political backdrop helped in doing that. Why are you trying to deny this reality as stated in the literature?
"I came across Hypatia a few days ago and was so taken by her story that I wrote a song about it. I used this video in my research" - Spike Summers July 2023 -th-cam.com/video/96Gq5FUHrks/w-d-xo.html
I think that you overanalyse. The story is - in larger context - about reducing resources in a formerly wealthy world. Political forces re-adjusted to salvage the remaining resources. Hypatia was a symbol of the old system. Targeting her was, if not coincidence, a logic act of establishing a new rule.
I don't get the point. Egypt was still wealthy by all accounts, and it would remain the bread basket of Rome until the Muslim conquests. I don't know where you get this narrative from, but it certainly doesn't apply in Egypt.
The one is universe it's self not some old man that we think as god... just imagine if universe wanted have a form do you real think it will take form of human with all the other options 🤔
Everything about this video is perfect, other then your tone of voice. . . you notice how every sentence essentially ends the same way, the same tone? got about 3 or 4 minutes into it before I had to go to a new vid, thank you for sharing though! the format was perfect, at least of what I watched.
Thx for the information! I have been getting feedback from several people that I need to improve the way I'm speaking in the videos and I will try to have it in mind when making my next video.
My pleasure brother! I am a youtuber myself and I know how hard it can be to put content together, and I must say, you organized your content very well and the info I was looking for was present!!! For me it really is just how each sentence seems to end with the same inflection and tone, gets redundant and difficult to stick around for. But you got everything else on point! keep up the good work brother!
Theologg is totally compatible with philosophy and science. These things work together to understand the Creator and His Creation, not against each other.
This is a complicated statement, though many early Saints were deeply involved in Philosophy many of the Early Christians in that area... Roman Catholics felt as if they needed power in order to overcome pagan traditional philosophy... Have you ever read of Saint Aquinas?? He like many other Saints and Bishops of that time had a problem with Power play and Monopoly... They monopolized the Christian Religion .... They did this after The Death of Jesus.
Jesus Christ that is... Was killed by his believers and of course non believers as well... I would surmise that the skeptics stayed hidden and the beloved just wept.
18:09 just cause the sources don't mention it doesn't mean it didn't happen, we honestly don't know but we can theorize based on things like culture, art, journalism, social constructs of the the time period etc. And it's not too farfetched, based on such sources, to see why she is often depicted as having such a brutal death.
@@roboarcado5552 Yet he threatened the Jews who had nothing to do with this with the utmost severities and after the Church incident, he massacred and deported the Alexandrian Jews, took all their belongings and converted their synagogues into Churches.
Yes, I did, the mistake was probably due to a spelling error since I want to remember that I edited this part late in the evening. Thx for pointing it out. :)
KİLLED BY CHRİSTIANS HYPATATİA Hypatatia Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomical. He studies philosophy in the Alexandria Library, mathematics and astronomy. The new Platonism depends on the mathematical tradition of the mathematical tradition of the eudoxus of Athens Academy
The facts and truth makes for very interesting reading. But a powerful myth and martyr touches something deep within us, powerful enough to spark revolutions, start wars and to change worlds!
Look deeply then as you may find that many "truths" have their origins in a mythos. Since thales and anaximander we've based many ideas in either a logos or mythos.
Hypatia wasn't an astronomer or a physicist. She probably knew a little mathematics, but there's no evidence that she was that extensively educated in it. She mostly taught neopagan gobbldygook and her death was inconsequential to the intellectual life of Alexandria, as evidenced by Christian scholars like John Philoponus who followed shortly after.
Very well done, good sir! I wish more people would watch this to understand who she really was and that she came from the flock of Plotinus and Neoplatonism. Unfortunately, Carl Sagan and the film( which I did enjoy, but had nothing to actually do with Hypatia, except in the name of the main character) Agora carried on misinforming the public on who Hypatia really was..Carry on and your channel is most excellent!
While the books on Hypatia you recommend are excellent (Dzielska, Watts), one need not rule out views as espoused by Carl Sagan, Justin Pollard and others. The onset of Christianity did do harm to ancient culture -- the destruction of the Serapeion and its library being but one example. Damascius, author of the Life of Isidore, went in exile after the Christian emperor Justianian closed down schools of pagan philosophy in Athens. At the same time it is true that there was some overlap between neo-Platonism and monotheism at the time. So, things were complicated and politicized; but to say that Hypatia's murder had nothing to do with religion strikes me as spurious.
The reason I'm rejecting the claims done by Pollard and Sagan is that they are wrong and contradict the current scholarship on the subject. - The early Church was not hostile to ancient science and philosophy but adopted a view towards it that was very similar to their pagans contemporaries which are something I have covered in this video: th-cam.com/video/Zn6XixUJUe8/w-d-xo.html - The claim that Christians burnt down the Serapeum library is dubious and without evidential foundation, something I've covered in detail in the other half of this video: th-cam.com/video/dnZ3PbjhanE/w-d-xo.html - Yes, emperor Justinian did close down the second school of Athens because it was vehemently anti-Christian as well as practising theurgical rites and astrology. It was only one school and it mainly studies ethics and metaphysics rather than mathematics and astronomy and the empires other intellectual centres like Syria, Antioch and Alexandria were completely unaffected. - Overlapping? All the Neoplatonists from Porphyry and forward were essentially monotheists regardless if they were pagan or Christian. - "strikes me as spurious" That's not my opinion but the position held by both Watts and Dzielska, if you disagree with them, feel free to present an argument.
Contemporary accounts of the destruction of the Serapeion don't mention any books being destroyed. They only say that it was once used as an annex to the great library. One of the accounts is by a philosopher who hated Christianity. If there had been any books there he would have said so. Justinian didn't exactly close down the Academy in Athens. He stopped their stipends and diverted the money to an academy he had established in Constantinople, for his own political prestige. There were other pagan academies which continued in the Roman Empire.
@@quillinkhistory9539 I would like some pointer to the current scholarship you mention. It seems to me that the facts show too many gaps to justify absolute verdicts on who is right & wrong. I resent theism, but would for that very reason want scholarship to be as precise and objective as possible.
I linked to my other videos on the points you brought up and I'm very clear what sources I'm using in all of them which can either be found on Amazon, most university libraries, Jstor et.c. What subjects are you unsure about? Judging about your comments a lot of things "seem to be" to you but you haven't brought any argument or reference yet.
@Saint Dragon: Hypatia was held in esteem at the time. Her murder, committed by Christians and instigated or at least condoned by 'saint' Cyril, was disapproved of by many other christians, including her near-contempary Socrates Scholasticus. Any historian (be they religious, non-religious or anti-religious) will be in agreement, the more so while there is not much more to go on. I grant you that statements like 'the onset of Christianity harmed ancient culture' can't be straightforwardly DEDUCED from a single tragic event. Still, one suspects there to be SOME correlation.
As a skeptic I have to question when a claim to “real” history is used. Your cited historian’s University is not named correctly as I found researched on the web. Was this unintentional? Also, apparently her funeral appeared to have been celebrated with much religious pomp. Please explain how you may feel about a certain bias that may or may not be present here? This doesn’t change the history Hypatia murdered by religious zealots.
"Your cited historian’s University is not named correctly as I found researched on the web. Was this unintentional?" - Yes, I misspelled. "Also, apparently her funeral appeared to have been celebrated with much religious pomp." - That's not a claim I'm familiar with, any reference you want to share? "Please explain how you may feel about a certain bias that may or may not be present here? This doesn’t change the history Hypatia murdered by religious zealots." - I am biased just like you and everyone else. I also happen to be right and seeing as you have not attempted to refute any claim made in the video I remain confident. Also if you have any questions regarding the motive behind Hypatia's death, I covered that in the video.
Quill & Ink History a simple google will show your cited historian was a theist used in support of the religious apologetics subtext of this video. However, to me the inferences of history tell me her death was brought about by religious zealotry in politics. You probably would remain confident in your misguided belief no matter what I or anyone else says anyway. Prove us wrong though. I see others have caught on to this as well, so I’ll end it here with that.
@@user-jn5ux1ct4r "a simple google will show your cited historian was a theist used in support of the religious apologetics subtext of this video". Please show me a link supporting your statement and how I am using a scholar to support an apologetics subtext. "You probably would remain confident in your misguided belief no matter what I or anyone else says anyway. Prove us wrong though. I see others have caught on to this as well, so I’ll end it here with that." I'm well open to changing my views on any claim made in the video if you point out what claim in the video is false or inaccurate and give sources supporting that, you have made several claims so far but not given evidence for any of them.
"consensus in scholarship", meaning your fundamentalist circle of theocrats. sorry, not impressed. Education and learning collapsed during the middle ages, reborn in the Enlightenment sometime after the Crusades. Like I said, excellent presentation up to the point that you proposed something wonderful to have come from theocracy and dismissed the collapse of Greco-Roman civilization
Excellent presentation... until you bring up scholarship that contradicts my pre-existing beliefs and preferences. I understand that it sometimes can be hard to take in new information but I would recommend you to look up the current scholarship on the subject instead of dismissing it outright. The information after 17:00 is the current consensus among scholars and is held by many leading scholars in the field such as David C Lindberg, Edward Grant, Edward B Davies, Maria Dzielska, Edward J Watts etc. If you want to dismiss them as some loons being part of a my "fundamentalist circle of theocrats" that's your choice. It's probably something that works in your social circle were certain false beliefs about history is never questioned but doing it while talking to people who actually are familiar with the subject will only make you look dumb and ignorant. Also, if you want to challenge any claim you don't agree with that's made in the video, feel free to share some scholarly literature on the subject that supports your position. If the only people not sharing your position is my "fundamentalist circle of theocrats" that should be pretty easy :) PS, thx for taking the time to comment. The youtube algorithm registers it as video engagement which means that it improves the videos SEO and it's always fun to post screenshots of comments from haters who have no arguments for the community to laugh at. :) Best wishes! Quill
well, you say scholar, I say theologian. tomato, tomato. there was an end to scholarship in classical mechanics that was revived in the 12-15th centuries. humanity basically stagnated during the interim, in spite of theologians, or scholars, who say otherwise.
@@GenghisVern so it seems any "scholar" that disagrees with your worldview you wish to characterise as a "theologian" because it's much easier to dismiss. Your claim about the collapse of learning during the middle ages is unequivocally false, with the first University, that of Bologna being founded in 1088 by Catholic Monks and many other Universities following suit. You would also do well to learn about the Celtic Britons and Irish educating Europe during the middle ages. Perhaps reading on the classical works of Pelagius and Gildas will suffice but there is much more where that came from. If you know history, humanity did not "basically stagnate" during that time, it is quite the opposite.
Useful info, but some of the takes are pretty weak tbh. For example, saying that persecution of pagans was not a motive because "it was only 10 years later..." is quite weak and seems to disprove your point more than help it. In reality, people are complicated apes and have multiple motives. If he could persecute them 10 years later, it's likely he had the germs of wanting to persecute them 10 years earlier. Think about Hitler. He took over Germany in 1933, and yet, it wasn't until around 41 that the outright extermination of Jews began in earnest. Yet, it would be foolish to conclude, "Therefore, the earlier concentration camps were not intended to remove Jews from the face of the Earth." Honestly, it was hard to even word that last sentence coherently, because it's nonsense. Similarly for "it wasn't because she was a woman." Think about how silly that statement is. Are you suggesting there exists a reasonable interpretation that one night a bunch of men decided to kill women for the sake of killing women? Those guys probably had wives and daughters. That doesn't mean they weren't chauvinistic. And the chauvinism was part of Christianity from the get-go with several verses of the New Testament (not to mention the Old), talking about how women should be submissive and men should be in control To discount that some of those mobbers would have felt disgusted with a woman being so powerful is silly. As for Neo-Platonism being a part of both Christianity and Paganism, it doesn't mean "they were on the same page so all was good," because some of those attitudes pervaded both groups. The Golden Rule exists in both Buddhism and Christianity, but that doesn't mean Christians don't think of Buddhism as "the wrong religion." Generally, they do, and often persecution has resulted. The issue here would be "okay, we're both trying to transcend past this dirty dirty body of ours, but your way vs. our way is what we war over, because you are serving Satan." This is the Christian way sadly. I think all your points are partially valid but just not fully. It was a mix of all those things, and for different people involved in this, the importance of the elements were differently weighted. For the mob, it's very likely an oversimplified view was stuffed down their throats like propaganda. Want evidence? just look at the propaganda war the right-wing has inflicted on the left-wing in recent years in countries with a Christian-right like the United States or England. They have painted liberals as servants of Satan for a long time, and this is a repeating pattern. Those in power know it's easier to control a mob that way. This is why education and science are TODAY associated with neo-paganism to rile the masses against scientists and university professors and politicians because they threaten theocratic ambitions which continue to this day. It's the same playbook!!! This DESPITE the fact that overwhelmingly, when it comes to practical matters, members of the Christian-right, and everyone else in those countries, actually have the same culture and value system. Even the dumb right-wingers out in the boonies went to schools and have more education than 99% of the humans in history have had. That doesn't stop them from using their powers to read and use the internet to feed their minds with anti-secular political fanaticism! They don't APPRECIATE the educational values they have received enough to notice their own betrayal of them. ORGANIZED RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT POLITICAL POWER. It's a myth that it hasn't. Maybe at times, there have been religions explicitly not about that, but generally they are short-lived (mostly--there are clever exceptions), because of obvious selection pressures and waves of persecution, and control of education, and most importantly, the deposition of those not in a particular sect from seats of government which has been exceptionally common throughout history. Just look at England in the last 500 years where for stretches of time, almost on a generational basis, people were fired from their government jobs by whatever sect was currently committing a coup over the government. This has happened over and over again. You can call that "mere political power," but the fact is, it has been on the basis of dividing the population up based on their subscription or not to fairytales that create that power. The two simply cannot be divorced!
Seriously you can't say they respected philosophy or science, if their search of both was to coincide with religion or Christianity. Science or philosophy exists and is motivated to pursue truth, not justify existing beliefs in politics or religion.
- Was Cyril responsible for Hypatia's death = I would say yes. Did he order her death = Possible but unlikely? All we know of Cyril's relationship to Hypatia's death is that rumours started to grow among his followers that Hypatia was the one responsible for Orestes refusal to reconcile with the Bishop. Weather Cyril created or encouraged these rumours we don't know but seeing how he had treated political opponents so far it's not unreasonable to assume that he encouraged them. As for weather, Hypatia's death was ordered, its possible but unlikely. Professor Watts points out that it was common in late antiquity for urban mobs to sporadically gather and go after a public official but the purpose of the mobs was seldom to kill the official but only to scare him/her from participating in public society. A likely explanation for why Hypatia died was that a mob of Cyril's followers took to the streets to confront her but mainly to stop her from influencing Orestes. Watts notes that if the mob had encountered Hypatia while she was in her house it would likely have screamed outside at her doorstep and crash some windows but it would be unlikely that they would have stormed the house. However, since they encountered here in the street it's likely(according to Watts) that she died because of things getting out of control rather than that her death was ordered. To summarise: Whatever degree of responsibility Cyril might have for Hypatia's death he was at least responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to her death but we have no evidence that he ordered her death and the idea that he did is unlikely and unnecessary if one takes into the account the political and social climate of the Roman empire in late antiquity.
Hi Marko! Sorry for a late answer, I think Cyril can be held responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to Hypatia's murder but not for the murder by the mob per se.
@@seandtroit6620 Murderers, yes, well so were a lot of Christians. The facts were obviously romanticized in the bias of the Christian writers though. Other emperors like Galerius also were thrown under the bus.
Bishop Cyril was like a Judge in modern world. He has implemented justice over Hypatia. I am not Christian. This was normal in Early Christianity like destroying statues of Ancient Greece and Rome.
Some good points are made but I agree with critical comments. Contemporary books, even when writte by scholars, are secondary sources in historical analysis. It's is a scholars interpretation. The so-called primary source back-and-forth in comments is weak, but hey: this is YTube. Also, I find it odd that the execution of Cyrils Christian spy Hierax, a state affair, is visually dramatized in this video but Hypatia's brutal death by Christian mob is absent except the standard painting before her death. This difference gives credence to the criticism of an unbalanced view. I'd recommend Deakin's book because he gives the few primary sources in full as his appendices. One letter to Hypatia is about listening to men who appeal to God about anything. 😊
I wouldn't recommend a book by a mathematician about history, personally, particularly when just the title is at odds with the actual scholarly consensus that she wasn't a martyr for anything.
It is a pity for me that when it comes to the murder of Hypatia, why did not St. Cyril repent on behalf of the Christians and why did the Church venerate such a person as a saint who is meant to be respected and honored by it.
@@diannechathurangaatukorele4530 The story of Cyril invented by atheists is. About the woman you mentioned, I'm sorry she died on the hands of horrible people who apparently called themselves Christians, but they were not.
@shashankvirahi5221 No maybe you need to not being a bigoted what new atheists are not the brightest tales in the Shell but they never destroyed Greek learning they preserved it it was called the goal of the Egyptians that's why Christians preserve ancient but no bigoted new atheist off it's like you don't take that into thank you for demonstrating once again that new atheists are not exactly the then you're not the sharpest
I know my post comes across as very late. I have read some controversial articles on Druids (sect of Pagans) which says Druids were similar to Hinduism which kind of debunk the theory of Aryan invasion, rather it was Aryan migration to Egypt & Greece. Does Hypatia of Alexandria had anything to do with southern part of India? I believe she was a Pagan. But her husband, Orestes was n’t Pagan ( Indian?) . After her murder, Orestes was converted to Christianity. And Why was the Great library of Alexandria burnt down ? To hide some disturbing truths? 🤔
Hypathia a great women belong to a great civilization here civilization destory because of a abrahamic cult. Christianity and Islam. And you the irony of her story is that her mass murder Christian worte her story. When ever I think about her I see a brave women. I see a brave women who give her life so that here people can live her civilization can live. I am not a scholar like her but today I promise her battal will we continue by me.
Everyone should watch agora 2009 movie one of its kind movie which tell about how 2000yrs old roman pagan culture brutally ruined by Abrahamic Christianity culture and his knowledge lost in times. Must watch to see how pagan great heritage destroyed by bigot Abrahamic cultures like Christianity and islam.
@@Elly3981 I believe at least one of the contemporary accounts describes her as unusually attractive, though that's likely a literary device of equating moral virtue with physical beauty.
And so? Would you Catholics and Christians like it if Pagans or any other beliefs chose to slaughter you all off and destroy your churches? No right? Go learn to respect another living being's life was it not written in the 10 Commandments "Thou shalt not kill"
Learn about the (REAL) history of the Library of Alexandria: th-cam.com/video/dnZ3PbjhanE/w-d-xo.html&t
Learn about the intriguing history of Charlemagne: th-cam.com/video/CGHNTx4Zh-w/w-d-xo.html&t
Learn about the history of the Catholic Inquisition: th-cam.com/video/UOJojMdSy48/w-d-xo.html&list=PLecHWD9NtQqrRReczL-TeSpC4AkzRwvde&index
can you upload article from where you have made this video ??
Please pronounce the name as....Epatea.
The sources used are listed in the description.
@Ethel Happy to help :)
Thank you! I really love you work in this video. She was a great Philosopher ❤❤❤
I never get tired of hearing/reading about this inspirational woman. It is an honor to be named after such a wise person.
That’s lovely! Your parents made a good choice 👍🏼
Ese es tu nombre ? En vdd ? Lo juras ? 😏
I love your name! I was working and one of our Spanish - speaking clients' name was Hipatia and I looked it up. Our son is Archimedes (Arquímedes) so it would be perfect! ❤️
Hypathia a great women scholar belong to a great civilization. Which is destroyed by abrahamic religion Christianity. Respect to that women. From the only ancient civilization left the vedic civilization.
@@chandanawale4599 I wasn’t destroyed by Abrahamic religions and it wasn’t some great civilization. Rome was collapsing due to barbarian invasions and slavery was still around
Thank you! My daughter will love watching this. I named her Hypatia..
Happy to hear that you liked it Niv! I hope you and your daughter have a great weekend! :)
I'm wondering how you guys pronounce her name?
@@sc6155 i think in greeks she called hypotasia, in englishi s literally hypatia or hee-pa-cya. i know your comment is 6 months, but yea..
@@arifhendriyana4399 no worries. Thanks, Arif!
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
I adore how concise and well put together this was. Thank you for taking the time to collect the closest to factual accounts of Hypatia as seemingly possible.
Thx for the kind comment Shealyn. :)
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
regardless of the motive of her death, no one should die or have their body treated like that
Agreed ⭐️
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
The religion of love.....
@@redshift1223 you forget that her students and the governor and the politicians were Christians too lol
@@vibeamv859 hence, it all ceased to exist.
Hypatia is one of my personal heroines. Her astute thinking, intellect and curiosity in pursuing to expand her own knowledge all the while teaching her students is incredible. Not sure if anyone can classify her as being ahead of her time, but it's fun to think that she was to a certain extent. Man, to have a time machine to go back just to engage in philosophical debate/discussion. That would be so epic! Thank you for uploading this video!
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
I just watched the movie Agora, and searched this out as my questioning soul urges me to learn more about what I experience. Life is rarely so simple as to be portrayed accurately in a short simple tale. There is always more to the story and I love what you've posted here. It's urging me to dig even deeper.
Same, I believe her teachings were lost in purpose just for being a woman :((
@@ancientmage2669 If that is really so, then why Orestes even approached for her counsel in the first place? Why the previous bishop(the one *before* Cyril) had never caused any trouble for her? Turns out Hollywood is not the best source of historical information.
@@ancientmage2669 And btw, only women hadn't suffered because of such things. Look at Coppernicus and Galileo Galilee for example!
@@Progamermove_2003
Copernicus didn't suffer anything (it's generally agreed what he feared was being ridiculed by other scientists, not anything from the church) and Galileo was placed under house arrest and forced to recant for thinking it was a good idea to troll the Pope and doing bad science.
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
I'm very thankful for this video, i'll read the books too. Respect to Hypatia.
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
Not only did many of the Christians not consider Neoplatonists to be polytheists, but many Neoplatonists didn't care too much for the worship of pantheons from my understanding. Ammonius Saccas for instance regarded polytheism as the religion of the masses and of unthinking people.
That's correct my friend :)
That wasn’t going to stop Christian from eventually killing her
@@WordsofHarmony While this is true, my point was being that it would not have mattered whether or not she was a Christian. They would have killed her regardless. They perceived her as aiding and abetting a political enemy. She wasn't killed for being a non-Christian.
Abrahamic religion like Christianity and Islam are murder of many civilization. Today all the places where Greece and other civilization people live there people are converted to Islam and Christian. And you known the irony that here murders Christian write here history. Hypathia a brave women who give here life so that here people can live here civilization can live sadly destory by abrahamic cult known as Christian.
@@chandanawale4599 Have you watched the video?
Gibbon's account of her death is horiffic. After dragging her naked through the streets of Alexandria, she was skinned and dissected by Cyril's henchmen in the church.
@@viktortempleton960 but cyril clearly didn't liked her. Even if cyril didn't ordered her assassination, he was probably happy when she died
That was normal in ancient rome
And after having been flayed alive they cut off her limbs and burned them.
That sounds about christian.
That was normal for Christians. The Pilgrims in America did essentially the same to the Native American chief Metacomet who the Pilgrims called "King Phillip". He was drawn and quartered by horses pulling in four directions and each of the four limb quarters was hung at the four entrances to the town and his head was put on a stake, at first displayed in the town square and then moved to a storefront.
I am not much an expert on neoplatonism at all but it reminds me of the analytical school, specifically indirect realism. Since both kind of make a distinction between the 'real' world and the mind.
Interesting, what is indirect realism?
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
An a nonreligious skeptic, I ignore the anti-Christian propaganda and prefer to care about the historical facts. Why did a mob of political supporters of one civic leader murder the prominent supporter of another civic leader? The answer is because a member of their political faction had been murdered first and they were out for revenge. Both factions were led by Christians, so religion had nothing to do with it. Hypatia was a known supporter of the Prefect Orestes and a known opponent of his political rival the Bishop Cyril. One of Cyril's followers hurled a rock at Orestes' head in a riot and so Orestes had him arrested and tortured. The man died as a result. So an angry mob of Cyril's supporters seized Hypatia and killed her in revenge.
It was politics, pure and simple.
There is no indication that it was because Hypatia was a pagan. In fact, we don't actually know what her religion was. There is also no evidence that it was because she was a woman. And that wouldn't make much sense anyway given that just a few years later another famous female pagan philosopher, Aedisia, flourished in Alexandria with no problems from angry mobs. Nor is there any evidence it was because she was a mathematician and astronomer. Attempts at making this a case of hatred of women, hatred of science or hatred of learning are almost entirely modern fantasies, though they seem to get repeated endlessly, especially online. Finally, despite what a certain astronomer claimed in a 1980s TV series on science, her murder had zero to do with the Great Library of Alexandria, which had ceased to exist before she was even born.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet, because history rarely resolves itself into neat and pretty parables.
PS She was a philosopher of Alexandria in Egypt, which at that stage was part of the Roman Empire. So not "a philosopher of Greece".
Thx for the comment. However I dont see what its supposed to add, it kind of just restates things I already said in the video :/
@John Smith
Hypatia was a Greek Neoplatonist philosopher in Roman Egypt,of course she was Greek...
Then according to your thinking was she ,an Arab ,or a black African ,or a Jew or Gaul and so on.of she was Greek,born in Alexandria in the local paroikia.
History is filled with examples of the misogyny,tyranny,deception,and general corruption of organized religion.Esoecially Christianity I You sound like a Christian apologist.and are probably a right winger .
This 'modern' fantasy or later interpretations that see this as a story about pagan vs Christian or feminism versus man has both feet firmly in what had come down to Renaissance historians and thence to the Enlightenment. In itself it indicates that despite the " triumph" of Christian thought, enough " pagan" writers or surviving agnosticism honoured the nature of the philosophy but as is seen in the existence of texts such as "Against The Christians" severe polarization had become the norm.
Yet if not for the period feminists and Enlightenment historians our understanding would be less. Because the historiography of the classical world is ever moving and changing and yes, observation of a subject changes what is observed, we can't hope to understand the 4th century as it was, we are reliant on survivals and on interpreting them. History would be a lot less interesting if we decided that only one fact could have the status of "truth". The reflections of the religious world since Platonism declined, is bound to leave its mark on the later interpretations.
I'm mystified by the apparent lack of historical rigour in folk so adamant they wish to get to " the truth". Descending to nonsensical insults and assumptions of modern mud slinging has the taste of the same patterns apparent in the 18th century discourses on the subject.
But without either the wit or erudition, gentlemen. Why should people who can neither spell nor understand basic academic principles worry about the accuracy or otherwise of a popular film. It would be interesting to hear the take on the historiography of an actual ancient or classical historian.
Great story on this great intelligent lady. Wonder why religion stop advancement of scientific n spiritual varieti es. Jussojyan
Even though a powerful Woman later acquitted the Bishop whose teachings inspired the mob to kill her
It wasn't Man vs Woman, but Woman vs Woman conflict you Marxist
I was brought here by the good place but I ended up learning lots and this was very entertaining for me!
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
The movie breaks my heart. I ball my eyes out at the end, every time. She didn't deserve that. Those devils were not of God.
So what did you think of the video? :)
Oh yes they were.
His_Princess I guess...but they claimed Christianity
So tell my is it acceptable to kill in the name of your religion?
@@WordsofHarmony Yes, a lot of wicked people & cults hide behind religion.
Thank you for this video. What a brilliant woman; what a tragic murder.
So, Carl Sagan was lying?
He was certainly wrong though I think most of the misinformation in the video clip when he talks about Hypatia and the Library of Alexandria is due to Sagan relying on outdated scholarship from the 1700-hundred plus adding in his own opinions.
@@quillinkhistory9539 You mean Edward Gibbon?
No, just not very good on history.
Yeah, I highly doubt your statement that "the conflicts between pagans and Christians had no effect on her life or philosophical activity." You have absolutely no way of knowing that, and logically, as an educated, politically well-connected woman who played a large role in civic and public life, it would be very surprising if the religious and political violence and uprisings around her left her life and thinking unaffected.
That's not my claim but the claim of professor Maria Dzielska.
"You have absolutely no way of knowing that, and logically, as an educated, politically well-connected woman who played a large role in civic and public life, it would be very surprising if the religious and political violence and uprisings around her left her life and thinking unaffected."
Yeah, we don't know by absolute certainty but we can infer the best explanations based upon the evidence that is available. We know that the early Christians opposed pagan religious practices and since Hypatia did not care about any of that the Christian didn't mind her. What you just have written is baseless speculations that has no support from the primary sources.
1) By stating it without attribution, you make it your claim. 2) What about your evidence? You present not a single shred of it for this statement. And you call mine "baseless speculation"? We're both speculating, naturally. Almost everything about her is speculation; there is evidence of very little about Hypatia and proof of almost nothing. 3) Who is "we"? Speak for yourself. 4) "The Chrisitan didn't mind her." What exactly do you mean by this? Which Christian didn't mind her? Many Christians obviously "minded" her because they killed her! 5) In the absence of evidence we have to use our reasoning abilities. To do so is useful and profitable. Logically, because she lived in the midst of political and religious turmoil that enveloped the public, and she took part in that public life; because she was reportedly a top adviser to prefect Orestes, the city's most powerful non-church political official; because she was an intelligent and curious woman by all accounts, it would be almost impossible for these conflicts to have "no impact" on her life. Such a statement simply doesn't make sense. These impacts may have been of many kinds: through disagreements among family connections; through her political connections and activities; through economic consequences or shortages (political instability usually impacts trade and finances, even among the upper classes), through lively public debates; through unsafe conditions or violence on the streets; through her students getting caught up in various factions--I am simply arguing that her life was almost certainly impact in some way by the rivalry among these groups.
Bishop Theophilus campaign(which is the only thing the claim is referring to) was mainly judicial, it took place between 375 and 412 and Theophilus worked together with the civil authorities, not against them like Cyril had done so there was no political instability cause because of it. The campaign didn't mean that ww3 broke out in the city, there were no food shortages nor trade deficits and while there certainly did break out violence between Theophilus faction and pagans a few times during that time-span it was for the most part business as usual in Alexandria. Hypatia, as I mentioned earlier, was not part of this campaign nor was affected by it, she had both Christian and pagan students and there's no evidence that neither her nor her students taking part in any conflicts between pagan and Christian factions.
- Hypatia continued to live like she had done before 375 and continued with her philosophical activeties like she had done before 375.
Nice! As an agnostic, I feel that a lot of people in the atheist community need to get better at history. The Hypatia myth is so ingrained in many anti-religious/anti-theistic thinkers. I'll point them to this video whenever Hypatia comes up...
Thx Robert! Do you know any good forums or cites to share this video on?
Unfortunately, no. But when I'm conversing with some of my more anti-theistic acquaintances and they bring this up, I'll point them to this vid!
Thank you!
It is not a myth. She did exist.
he doesn't exist didn't you get the memo
Thank you for the dispassionate presentation of facts rather than narrative. Although I loved the recreation of Alexandria in the film, I could not appreciate the injection of modern narratives into the story of Hypatia.
I was about to say the same.
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
What a wonderful extended look into an oft overlooked classical hero! A reminder that unfortunately our love and search for the T(ruth) so often comes into conflict with the accepted orthodox t(ruths) of a particular time and place. A regrettable motif of human history in general, yet without such tensions and struggles, what progress can be made?
Cheers!
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
I wonder if she met Saint Augustus at that time. Did Saint Augustus who was known as a great traveller, travelled to Alexandria and met her?
You're right, that would be a really cool scenario! I wonder what a conversation two so interesting minds would look like?
St. Augustine (Aurelius Augustinus) :-) Such a meeting may well have occurred, but if so, we have no historical record of it.
I am sorry about the criticism, but you might want to reduce your voice fry a little.
You end most sentences with a long fry and an awkward pause.
Sorry about that. I'm obviously a little obsessed with sounds. You aren't Swedish by any chance? *Vinker fra Norge.* Subscribed.
No worry, I have learned that I have a very loud voice and that I need to speak with a high pitch from my stomach and I have done away with the long fry at the end of sentences(well diminished it somewhat at least) as well as the awkward pauses. Your right my friend, I guess the change in tonality gave it away. Its fun to see that other Scandinavian have started to discover my channel.
English isn't his first language so you probably just have to adjust your ear to the Swedish accent. The more foreign accents you hear the easier it is to decipher them. Also, I think Swedes tend to use English that's more in the British style, so if you're not used to that it can take a little while to get used to.
@@quillinkhistory9539 I thought your accent was Russian? Its norwegian?
Christina Kiki close, its Swedish 😁
This is literally the only good video on Hypatia all around TH-cam
I know you're trying to appreciate the channel, but the fact that it's the only good video on her is quite sad in it's own ways.
Thanks for this information!
The Good Place brought me here
Thank you so much for uploading such a informative video
From Nepal
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
Cool video. Keep up the good work! What are you working on next?
Thank you Dan! For my next video Im thinking about doing a quick overview on the Knights Templars seeing as the first season of Knightfall is still going.
Quill & Ink History , You may want to contact the Real Crusades History channel here on TH-cam to collaborate on the Knights Templar video together.
Thx for the recommendation, I have contacted J Stephen Roberts via his Facebook page but he hasn't answered yet.
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
Really enjoy your work.
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
so they wanted to scare her but accidentally chopped her to pieces ? im sorry but i dont buy it. they wanted to brutalize her and they did.
No thanks to humanity's infamous misogynist, femicidal patriarchy, especially during her time.
Every time a female becomes too proficient that she can compete with a guy, men WILL ALWAYS find a way to "SILENCE" her. It's still happening now, especially in muslim & latin countries, korea, japan, among many others.
What is the precise source for your statement at 1:08 that Hypatia was a more capable mathematician than her father?
Dont remeber, gonna go back and check with the sources.
I’ve read of this too! That she had surpassed her father knowledge wise in mathematics.
Feminists love using her story and applying feminist ideas to her and that time period. Hypatia was well respected and wasn’t seen as a threat because she was a woman
Age of empires mythology gang gang checking in!
The correct Greek pronunciation of her name is more like hi-PAHT-ee-ah
Thank you !!!!!! Thank you!!!!
Who else searched up “Hypatia” cause it was their name hypatia is my name lol
I searched it because I saw some factually incorrect videos with either a feminist or atheistic agenda behind them. This one is an exception, and the fact of the matter is that she was a Neo-Platonist, not an atheist, and her death has more to do with politics than her gender.
Are you aware that you begin with some confusion by saying she was born in the 4th century but the visual shows the date 415 A.D. which is in the 5th century? The importance of using the label "the One" was that it is essential for removing the anthropomorphic projections on all gods, including the Christian God.
Question, is Hypatia within the Greco-Roman Era or African Era? And is she Greek or Egyptian?
John Gabriel Ibo Alexandria was a Greco-Roman colony so I guess you can say she’s Greek + Egyptian by born place & living. But I personally can’t say she’s roman .. hope someone know better reply and correct me if I’m wrong & thanks 🌸
@@lardegh5793 oh thank you for the information! ♡
She was Greek and spoke Greek.
@@Komnenit there's probably have egyptian DNA because her mother is unknown
She was Greek .Alexandria founded be Alexander the Great.
Excellent presentation
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
When you read "sophrosyne" with English pronunciation, a thousand of kittens and puppies died.
Cyril spent more than half of his time defending the name and honor of one woman he never met in person and her name was Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. One guy named Nestorious, and others who are used as sources for this Hypatia narrative, thought that she shouldn’t be called the mother of God. Nestorious believed she was just the mother of a man. This Cyril who is historically and continuously falsely slandered stood up with his pen and went to war defending the honor of this one woman. All of the earliest sources for this Hypatia murder story by a Christian mob had vendettas against Cyril or Christianity- the very person and faith that fought to protect and defend the status of a PEASANT JEWISH GIRL that lived 400 years before them. Go to Egypt and visit one of these churches and you'll find that they spend half of their time with the name of a FEMALE named Mary on their mouth. The writings they use to sing about this female? Written by a Christian male named Cyril.
I will study about Cyril. Thanks!
@@ififif2022 I've since studied a bit more, and must say, this is a very one sided narrative. Socrates Scholasticus was the only contemporary to write about it, but he was sympathizer to a sect of Christianity called the Novatians. The emperor at that time ordered Novation churches to be closed, and this task was to be executed by the Christian bishops throughout the empire. This likely made Socrates bitter. However, Socrates doesn't attribute the death of Hypatia to Cyril directly, but to a Christian mob. Indeed, tempers were hot at this time and it was like an environment of civil war. The pagans were bitter because the emperor was closing temples. The j-ewz were angry because the emperor wasn't allowing the rebuilding of temples. The j-ewz of Alexandria had just massacred Christians by tricking them into thinking their church was on fire. The Christians frantically came out in the middle of the night, and many of them were slaughtered. The pagan faction of the city was also at that time harboring themselves in temples, using the temples as bases to attack christians. The governor Orestes was being advised by Hypatia at the time, and did nothing about the massacres of the Christians that night. This was also likely because the j-ewz had the power to the shipping grain trade, and he didn't want to mess up relations. Hot tempered and justice seeking Christians took matters in their own hands. Cyril expelled the j-ewz involved in the massacre, and a justice seeking Christian mob, albeit in a seemingly unchristian like manner, sought to execute the adviser to Orestes, Hypatia. Again, Socrates doesn't state Cyril is directly responsible. Indeed, Cyril's writings (he has several million words worth of reading material available to us) state to act in the exact opposite manner. In his exegesis of the sons of Jacob getting retaliation for the rape of Dinah, Cyril denounce violence and retaliation by Christians. He does the same in his exegesis of Peter cutting of the ear of the soldier in Gethsemane. Also, during the Nestorian controversy, no one brings up this event, although it would have been excellent ammo to attack Cyril as a murderous villain. The Nestoria opponents of Cyril are utterly silent on the matter of Hypatia.
The second source, Damascius, is the ONLY source who attributes the death of Hypatia directly to Cyril. He was indeed a bitter pagan writing 75-100 years after the event. He was a pagan philosopher who was living at a time when paganism was dying hard, to the point that he left Alexandria and Athens, going to Persia, because of the death of paganism. He bitterly attributes this death of paganism to Christians who he vehemently detested. He was anti-Christian to say the least,and Alexandrian Christianity was certainly at the top of his most hated list. The third source, John of Nikiu, writes several centuries after the event and again attribute the death to a Christian mob. He doesn't directly implicate Cyril, but does praise Cyril for his defense of Christianity against paganism (Cyril wrote a tome called "Against Julian" which refuted Emperor Julians work against Christianity. This also likely contributed heavily to the decline of paganism, and the bitterness of Damascius, the second source). Hope this helps.
@@MinaDKSBMSB It does!
Lol your swedish accent is pretty funny but I like it
Admirable 👍👍👍
Amazing documentary.what she followed was what we call gyana yoga ie reaching god through knowledge (in a simple language)
One idea that no one entertains is whether Hypatia deserved her death. (Before anyone starts clutching their pearls, recall that many people would begrudgingly admit that the French aristocrats in 1792, say, "had it coming".) Elevated as a rationalist and feminist martyr, she has received a glossy shield of apologistic protection and is now a bipedal sacred cow, but we do not know her character and deeds. In the same way, everyone ignores Galileo's falseness and backstabbing and receives the interpretation of the inquiry into his science from biased sources. As well, the violence of the Alexandrian monks was not necessarily approved by the best elements in the local church. (See The Sayings of the Desert Fathers, editor Benedicta Ward.)
415 AD was in the 5TH Century!
👍 good video
Hypatia of Alexandria Mathematician and Martyr a book by Michael Deakin a review of the book can be found in the Gazette 35 Volume 2
Thank you, this video helped me get a great understanding of story and its historical impact!
This video is fundamentalist christian, antiwhite propaganda. Hypatia was murdered by a christian mob, inflamed by Cyril of Alexandria.
There were thousands of Hellenes in Alexandria: A time when Romans thought of war. Greeks thought of philosophy in Alexandria, they thought of thought itself.
So imagine how many great female's Studied in Egypt? Plus: The University and Library had writers from doctors around the world from India, China, Egypt, and even Mesopotamia [ etc ] ...
Don't use that title the greatest, because you were not there. It is important to note that there are many Ancient Greek women philosophers.
I am Hellene, not Greek. There is an intelligent video to be made in English about Hypatia culture, and this isn't it.
You shouldn't approach this video as history in the typical sense. Treat it as an interesting speculative documentary with some historical information thrown in.
History is way more clear with a Hellenic classical education, and someone who speaks like a native Greek and not as an outsider/foreigner who learned Greek.
No other small country can compare with Greece in terms of impact on human benefit.
In the beginning... God created the Earth, and in the light blue waters, put a small ship to travel forever, in order not only to give birth but also to transfer great ideas all over the world ...
He called that ship...HELLAS! 🐬
The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance. Herodotus.
ı wish she can able to see 21th century, she would be so happy... And ı wish ı (and everyone) learned women philosophers too, in our highschool education ect.
I'm glad that you like the video Cemre :)
@ Cemre “I wish she can able to see 21st-century, she would be so happy...” Maybe she IS here now (reincarnation). You never know. And yes, I think she’d be very happy & excited to witness all the amazing technological advances - she’s probably crazy about cell phones, lol.
I would rather study her than Ayn Rand
Many including her would probably be horrified to see our world as it is now.
I doubt she would be gleeful to behold an era of debauchery and nihilistic moral apathy such as ours.
why are u citing tim o neil who has no qualifications and makes nonsensical false claims constantly? She was attacked in part by the Christian beliefs of her being a witch among other things which they wanted to eradicate and their political backdrop helped in doing that. Why are you trying to deny this reality as stated in the literature?
Thank you for this video!
Thank you Nancy!
"I came across Hypatia a few days ago and was so taken by her story that I wrote a song about it. I used this video in my research" - Spike Summers July 2023 -th-cam.com/video/96Gq5FUHrks/w-d-xo.html
I think that you overanalyse. The story is - in larger context - about reducing resources in a formerly wealthy world. Political forces re-adjusted to salvage the remaining resources. Hypatia was a symbol of the old system. Targeting her was, if not coincidence, a logic act of establishing a new rule.
I don't get the point. Egypt was still wealthy by all accounts, and it would remain the bread basket of Rome until the Muslim conquests. I don't know where you get this narrative from, but it certainly doesn't apply in Egypt.
The one is universe it's self not some old man that we think as god... just imagine if universe wanted have a form do you real think it will take form of human with all the other options 🤔
THANK YOU for this video
My pleasure, glad that you liked the video! Don't forget the check out the recommended literature if you want to learn more about Hypatia. :)
the movie version of Hypatia looks similar to female boxer savannah marshall.
*Hypatia died as a Martyr, nonetheless. 🧠 🔭 ✨*
I like your accent.
Everything about this video is perfect, other then your tone of voice. . . you notice how every sentence essentially ends the same way, the same tone? got about 3 or 4 minutes into it before I had to go to a new vid, thank you for sharing though! the format was perfect, at least of what I watched.
Thx for the information! I have been getting feedback from several people that I need to improve the way I'm speaking in the videos and I will try to have it in mind when making my next video.
My pleasure brother! I am a youtuber myself and I know how hard it can be to put content together, and I must say, you organized your content very well and the info I was looking for was present!!! For me it really is just how each sentence seems to end with the same inflection and tone, gets redundant and difficult to stick around for. But you got everything else on point! keep up the good work brother!
Lee Killingsworth Like Brian Griffin's ex-girlfriend, Jillian?! 😏
Thanks with infinite salutes.
Theologg is totally compatible with philosophy and science. These things work together to understand the Creator and His Creation, not against each other.
This is a complicated statement, though many early Saints were deeply involved in Philosophy many of the Early Christians in that area... Roman Catholics felt as if they needed power in order to overcome pagan traditional philosophy... Have you ever read of Saint Aquinas?? He like many other Saints and Bishops of that time had a problem with Power play and Monopoly... They monopolized the Christian Religion .... They did this after The Death of Jesus.
Jesus Christ that is... Was killed by his believers and of course non believers as well... I would surmise that the skeptics stayed hidden and the beloved just wept.
After the "death"
What an imbecile
Ressurection*
@@spiralgamora5538 Get your facts straight, disrespectful satanist
18:09 just cause the sources don't mention it doesn't mean it didn't happen, we honestly don't know but we can theorize based on things like culture, art, journalism, social constructs of the the time period etc. And it's not too farfetched, based on such sources, to see why she is often depicted as having such a brutal death.
What claims do you claim that one can make without it it being supported by the primary sources?
@@quillinkhistory9539 Indeed, and if her gender was really an issue, then why Orestes even approached for her counsel in the first place?
Pronunciation is not correct for it is a greek name not and should be pronounced in its origin language otherwise you are falsifying the true name.
cyril was still a psychopathic murderer
I never denied that Cyril was a thug, however, like Orestes they were simply men of their time.
There's no connecting him to the murder, you idiot.
@@roboarcado5552 Yet he threatened the Jews who had nothing to do with this with the utmost severities and after the Church incident, he massacred and deported the Alexandrian Jews, took all their belongings and converted their synagogues into Churches.
The "Jagollian University" doesn't exist. Do you mean Jagiellonian University?
Yes, I did, the mistake was probably due to a spelling error since I want to remember that I edited this part late in the evening. Thx for pointing it out. :)
Though your video is well-researched, I was skeptical of the name and wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those fake bible universities in Kansas. ;P
Haha, no worry my friend. If your interessted in learning more I would recommend you to pick up Dzielskas book. It's a well researched monograph.
KİLLED BY CHRİSTIANS HYPATATİA
Hypatatia Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomical. He studies philosophy in the Alexandria Library, mathematics and astronomy. The new Platonism depends on the mathematical tradition of the mathematical tradition of the eudoxus of Athens Academy
YPATÍA IN GREEK..pronounced epatea
11:33 There's the self-righteous villain that leads the angry mob who followed faith blindly
The facts and truth makes for very interesting reading. But a powerful myth and martyr touches something deep within us, powerful enough to spark revolutions, start wars and to change worlds!
I'll ALWAYS prefer facts and truths over myth and fictions.
Look deeply then as you may find that many "truths" have their origins in a mythos. Since thales and anaximander we've based many ideas in either a logos or mythos.
Hypatia wasn't an astronomer or a physicist. She probably knew a little mathematics, but there's no evidence that she was that extensively educated in it. She mostly taught neopagan gobbldygook and her death was inconsequential to the intellectual life of Alexandria, as evidenced by Christian scholars like John Philoponus who followed shortly after.
Hypatia was head of an university!! She studied all those sciences and more!! What are you? A no-thing, f..K off, mysogynist 👹👹
Very well done, good sir! I wish more people would watch this to understand who she really was and that she came from the flock of Plotinus and Neoplatonism. Unfortunately, Carl Sagan and the film( which I did enjoy, but had nothing to actually do with Hypatia, except in the name of the main character) Agora carried on misinforming the public on who Hypatia really was..Carry on and your channel is most excellent!
Many Thx Jupiter!
While the books on Hypatia you recommend are excellent (Dzielska, Watts), one need not rule out views as espoused by Carl Sagan, Justin Pollard and others. The onset of Christianity did do harm to ancient culture -- the destruction of the Serapeion and its library being but one example. Damascius, author of the Life of Isidore, went in exile after the Christian emperor Justianian closed down schools of pagan philosophy in Athens. At the same time it is true that there was some overlap between neo-Platonism and monotheism at the time. So, things were complicated and politicized; but to say that Hypatia's murder had nothing to do with religion strikes me as spurious.
The reason I'm rejecting the claims done by Pollard and Sagan is that they are wrong and contradict the current scholarship on the subject.
- The early Church was not hostile to ancient science and philosophy but adopted a view towards it that was very similar to their pagans contemporaries which are something I have covered in this video: th-cam.com/video/Zn6XixUJUe8/w-d-xo.html
- The claim that Christians burnt down the Serapeum library is dubious and without evidential foundation, something I've covered in detail in the other half of this video: th-cam.com/video/dnZ3PbjhanE/w-d-xo.html
- Yes, emperor Justinian did close down the second school of Athens because it was vehemently anti-Christian as well as practising theurgical rites and astrology. It was only one school and it mainly studies ethics and metaphysics rather than mathematics and astronomy and the empires other intellectual centres like Syria, Antioch and Alexandria were completely unaffected.
- Overlapping? All the Neoplatonists from Porphyry and forward were essentially monotheists regardless if they were pagan or Christian.
- "strikes me as spurious" That's not my opinion but the position held by both Watts and Dzielska, if you disagree with them, feel free to present an argument.
Contemporary accounts of the destruction of the Serapeion don't mention any books being destroyed. They only say that it was once used as an annex to the great library. One of the accounts is by a philosopher who hated Christianity. If there had been any books there he would have said so. Justinian didn't exactly close down the Academy in Athens. He stopped their stipends and diverted the money to an academy he had established in Constantinople, for his own political prestige. There were other pagan academies which continued in the Roman Empire.
@@quillinkhistory9539 I would like some pointer to the current scholarship you mention. It seems to me that the facts show too many gaps to justify absolute verdicts on who is right & wrong. I resent theism, but would for that very reason want scholarship to be as precise and objective as possible.
I linked to my other videos on the points you brought up and I'm very clear what sources I'm using in all of them which can either be found on Amazon, most university libraries, Jstor et.c. What subjects are you unsure about? Judging about your comments a lot of things "seem to be" to you but you haven't brought any argument or reference yet.
@Saint Dragon: Hypatia was held in esteem at the time. Her murder, committed by Christians and instigated or at least condoned by 'saint' Cyril, was disapproved of by many other christians, including her near-contempary Socrates Scholasticus. Any historian (be they religious, non-religious or anti-religious) will be in agreement, the more so while there is not much more to go on. I grant you that statements like 'the onset of Christianity harmed ancient culture' can't be straightforwardly DEDUCED from a single tragic event. Still, one suspects there to be SOME correlation.
Pop goes pop history!
The,philoser and proffesor hypetia sad soory will rememberd for ever....names of her killers..forgotten.for ever..
Thank you so much.you helped me finish my essay.
BTW no matter how old u r ur never to old or young to learn I'm 12
Happy to help! Hope your esseay went well :)
As a skeptic I have to question when a claim to “real” history is used. Your cited historian’s University is not named correctly as I found researched on the web. Was this unintentional? Also, apparently her funeral appeared to have been celebrated with much religious pomp. Please explain how you may feel about a certain bias that may or may not be present here? This doesn’t change the history Hypatia murdered by religious zealots.
"Your cited historian’s University is not named correctly as I found researched on the web. Was this unintentional?"
- Yes, I misspelled.
"Also, apparently her funeral appeared to have been celebrated with much religious pomp."
- That's not a claim I'm familiar with, any reference you want to share?
"Please explain how you may feel about a certain bias that may or may not be present here? This doesn’t change the history Hypatia murdered by religious zealots."
- I am biased just like you and everyone else. I also happen to be right and seeing as you have not attempted to refute any claim made in the video I remain confident. Also if you have any questions regarding the motive behind Hypatia's death, I covered that in the video.
Quill & Ink History a simple google will show your cited historian was a theist used in support of the religious apologetics subtext of this video. However, to me the inferences of history tell me her death was brought about by religious zealotry in politics. You probably would remain confident in your misguided belief no matter what I or anyone else says anyway. Prove us wrong though. I see others have caught on to this as well, so I’ll end it here with that.
@@user-jn5ux1ct4r "a simple google will show your cited historian was a theist used in support of the religious apologetics subtext of this video".
Please show me a link supporting your statement and how I am using a scholar to support an apologetics subtext.
"You probably would remain confident in your misguided belief no matter what I or anyone else says anyway. Prove us wrong though. I see others have caught on to this as well, so I’ll end it here with that."
I'm well open to changing my views on any claim made in the video if you point out what claim in the video is false or inaccurate and give sources supporting that, you have made several claims so far but not given evidence for any of them.
Excellent presentation. I disagree with your conclusion, from about 17:00 on
Well given that the conclusions from 17:00 is the current consensus in scholarship I'm a bit curious to what such a disagreement is based upon.
"consensus in scholarship", meaning your fundamentalist circle of theocrats. sorry, not impressed. Education and learning collapsed during the middle ages, reborn in the Enlightenment sometime after the Crusades.
Like I said, excellent presentation up to the point that you proposed something wonderful to have come from theocracy and dismissed the collapse of Greco-Roman civilization
Excellent presentation... until you bring up scholarship that contradicts my pre-existing beliefs and preferences. I understand that it sometimes can be hard to take in new information but I would recommend you to look up the current scholarship on the subject instead of dismissing it outright. The information after 17:00 is the current consensus among scholars and is held by many leading scholars in the field such as David C Lindberg, Edward Grant, Edward B Davies, Maria Dzielska, Edward J Watts etc. If you want to dismiss them as some loons being part of a my "fundamentalist circle of theocrats" that's your choice. It's probably something that works in your social circle were certain false beliefs about history is never questioned but doing it while talking to people who actually are familiar with the subject will only make you look dumb and ignorant.
Also, if you want to challenge any claim you don't agree with that's made in the video, feel free to share some scholarly literature on the subject that supports your position. If the only people not sharing your position is my "fundamentalist circle of theocrats" that should be pretty easy :)
PS, thx for taking the time to comment. The youtube algorithm registers it as video engagement which means that it improves the videos SEO and it's always fun to post screenshots of comments from haters who have no arguments for the community to laugh at. :)
Best wishes!
Quill
well, you say scholar, I say theologian. tomato, tomato. there was an end to scholarship in classical mechanics that was revived in the 12-15th centuries. humanity basically stagnated during the interim, in spite of theologians, or scholars, who say otherwise.
@@GenghisVern so it seems any "scholar" that disagrees with your worldview you wish to characterise as a "theologian" because it's much easier to dismiss. Your claim about the collapse of learning during the middle ages is unequivocally false, with the first University, that of Bologna being founded in 1088 by Catholic Monks and many other Universities following suit. You would also do well to learn about the Celtic Britons and Irish educating Europe during the middle ages. Perhaps reading on the classical works of Pelagius and Gildas will suffice but there is much more where that came from. If you know history, humanity did not "basically stagnate" during that time, it is quite the opposite.
Useful info, but some of the takes are pretty weak tbh.
For example, saying that persecution of pagans was not a motive because "it was only 10 years later..." is quite weak and seems to disprove your point more than help it.
In reality, people are complicated apes and have multiple motives. If he could persecute them 10 years later, it's likely he had the germs of wanting to persecute them 10 years earlier. Think about Hitler. He took over Germany in 1933, and yet, it wasn't until around 41 that the outright extermination of Jews began in earnest. Yet, it would be foolish to conclude, "Therefore, the earlier concentration camps were not intended to remove Jews from the face of the Earth."
Honestly, it was hard to even word that last sentence coherently, because it's nonsense.
Similarly for "it wasn't because she was a woman." Think about how silly that statement is. Are you suggesting there exists a reasonable interpretation that one night a bunch of men decided to kill women for the sake of killing women? Those guys probably had wives and daughters. That doesn't mean they weren't chauvinistic. And the chauvinism was part of Christianity from the get-go with several verses of the New Testament (not to mention the Old), talking about how women should be submissive and men should be in control To discount that some of those mobbers would have felt disgusted with a woman being so powerful is silly.
As for Neo-Platonism being a part of both Christianity and Paganism, it doesn't mean "they were on the same page so all was good," because some of those attitudes pervaded both groups. The Golden Rule exists in both Buddhism and Christianity, but that doesn't mean Christians don't think of Buddhism as "the wrong religion." Generally, they do, and often persecution has resulted. The issue here would be "okay, we're both trying to transcend past this dirty dirty body of ours, but your way vs. our way is what we war over, because you are serving Satan."
This is the Christian way sadly.
I think all your points are partially valid but just not fully.
It was a mix of all those things, and for different people involved in this, the importance of the elements were differently weighted. For the mob, it's very likely an oversimplified view was stuffed down their throats like propaganda. Want evidence? just look at the propaganda war the right-wing has inflicted on the left-wing in recent years in countries with a Christian-right like the United States or England. They have painted liberals as servants of Satan for a long time, and this is a repeating pattern. Those in power know it's easier to control a mob that way. This is why education and science are TODAY associated with neo-paganism to rile the masses against scientists and university professors and politicians because they threaten theocratic ambitions which continue to this day. It's the same playbook!!! This DESPITE the fact that overwhelmingly, when it comes to practical matters, members of the Christian-right, and everyone else in those countries, actually have the same culture and value system. Even the dumb right-wingers out in the boonies went to schools and have more education than 99% of the humans in history have had. That doesn't stop them from using their powers to read and use the internet to feed their minds with anti-secular political fanaticism! They don't APPRECIATE the educational values they have received enough to notice their own betrayal of them.
ORGANIZED RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT POLITICAL POWER. It's a myth that it hasn't. Maybe at times, there have been religions explicitly not about that, but generally they are short-lived (mostly--there are clever exceptions), because of obvious selection pressures and waves of persecution, and control of education, and most importantly, the deposition of those not in a particular sect from seats of government which has been exceptionally common throughout history. Just look at England in the last 500 years where for stretches of time, almost on a generational basis, people were fired from their government jobs by whatever sect was currently committing a coup over the government. This has happened over and over again. You can call that "mere political power," but the fact is, it has been on the basis of dividing the population up based on their subscription or not to fairytales that create that power. The two simply cannot be divorced!
Seriously you can't say they respected philosophy or science, if their search of both was to coincide with religion or Christianity. Science or philosophy exists and is motivated to pursue truth, not justify existing beliefs in politics or religion.
415 AD = 5th century
Atta girl!
So, Cyril was responsible for her death and ordered it, but he did that for political reasons? Please correct me if i am wrong.
- Was Cyril responsible for Hypatia's death = I would say yes. Did he order her death = Possible but unlikely?
All we know of Cyril's relationship to Hypatia's death is that rumours started to grow among his followers that Hypatia was the one responsible for Orestes refusal to reconcile with the Bishop. Weather Cyril created or encouraged these rumours we don't know but seeing how he had treated political opponents so far it's not unreasonable to assume that he encouraged them. As for weather, Hypatia's death was ordered, its possible but unlikely. Professor Watts points out that it was common in late antiquity for urban mobs to sporadically gather and go after a public official but the purpose of the mobs was seldom to kill the official but only to scare him/her from participating in public society. A likely explanation for why Hypatia died was that a mob of Cyril's followers took to the streets to confront her but mainly to stop her from influencing Orestes. Watts notes that if the mob had encountered Hypatia while she was in her house it would likely have screamed outside at her doorstep and crash some windows but it would be unlikely that they would have stormed the house. However, since they encountered here in the street it's likely(according to Watts) that she died because of things getting out of control rather than that her death was ordered.
To summarise: Whatever degree of responsibility Cyril might have for Hypatia's death he was at least responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to her death but we have no evidence that he ordered her death and the idea that he did is unlikely and unnecessary if one takes into the account the political and social climate of the Roman empire in late antiquity.
Quill & Ink History I assume that Cyril never condemned this act of murder done by his followers?
Hi Marko! Sorry for a late answer, I think Cyril can be held responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to Hypatia's murder but not for the murder by the mob per se.
Sean D'Troit Did you comment about atheists and then provide a link to a biased article?
Who was the nutjob that made Cyril a freaking saint? Seriously, who's idea was it?
Dunno and don't know why either to be honest.
Oh you actually replied, nice to see you read the comments, keep up the good content ;-)
Thank you Erick! I try to engage with my subs and viewers as much as I can, it is you guys that keep the channel going after all. :)
@@seandtroit6620 We could say the same thing about the baseless slander against Nero or Caligula cooked up by later christian writers.
@@seandtroit6620 Murderers, yes, well so were a lot of Christians. The facts were obviously romanticized in the bias of the Christian writers though. Other emperors like Galerius also were thrown under the bus.
It's /ypaˈtia/ (Attic) or /ypaˈtia/ (Constantinopolitan).
Bishop Cyril was like a Judge in modern world. He has implemented justice over Hypatia. I am not Christian. This was normal in Early Christianity like destroying statues of Ancient Greece and Rome.
The implementation of "justice" came under the jurisdiction of the state (Prefect of Alexandria in this case), and not the church!
Some good points are made but I agree with critical comments. Contemporary books, even when writte by scholars, are secondary sources in historical analysis. It's is a scholars interpretation. The so-called primary source back-and-forth in comments is weak, but hey: this is YTube. Also, I find it odd that the execution of Cyrils Christian spy Hierax, a state affair, is visually dramatized in this video but Hypatia's brutal death by Christian mob is absent except the standard painting before her death. This difference gives credence to the criticism of an unbalanced view. I'd recommend Deakin's book because he gives the few primary sources in full as his appendices. One letter to Hypatia is about listening to men who appeal to God about anything. 😊
I wouldn't recommend a book by a mathematician about history, personally, particularly when just the title is at odds with the actual scholarly consensus that she wasn't a martyr for anything.
It is a pity for me that when it comes to the murder of Hypatia, why did not St. Cyril repent on behalf of the Christians and why did the Church venerate such a person as a saint who is meant to be respected and honored by it.
Because he was a saint and the stories you heard are only defamations.
@@ififif2022 You mean that the story of Hypatia is a mythical defamation?
@@diannechathurangaatukorele4530 The story of Cyril invented by atheists is. About the woman you mentioned, I'm sorry she died on the hands of horrible people who apparently called themselves Christians, but they were not.
@@ififif2022 I heard that they were a Christian mob.
Hypatia she find with mathematics the earth go around the sun it does not make a circle but an elliptical circle
Unfortunately no. While she was a great scientist and her accomplishments were great, she wasn't the one who discovered it.
13:06 This is insane. Violence related to blind faith.
@shashankvirahi5221 No maybe you need to not being a bigoted what new atheists are not the brightest tales in the Shell but they never destroyed Greek learning they preserved it it was called the goal of the Egyptians that's why Christians preserve ancient but no bigoted new atheist off it's like you don't take that into thank you for demonstrating once again that new atheists are not exactly the then you're not the sharpest
I know my post comes across as very late.
I have read some controversial articles on Druids (sect of Pagans) which says Druids were similar to Hinduism which kind of debunk the theory of Aryan invasion, rather it was Aryan migration to Egypt & Greece.
Does Hypatia of Alexandria had anything to do with southern part of India? I believe she was a Pagan. But her husband, Orestes was n’t Pagan ( Indian?) . After her murder, Orestes was converted to Christianity.
And Why was the Great library of Alexandria burnt down ? To hide some disturbing truths? 🤔
Hypathia a great women belong to a great civilization here civilization destory because of a abrahamic cult. Christianity and Islam. And you the irony of her story is that her mass murder Christian worte her story. When ever I think about her I see a brave women. I see a brave women who give her life so that here people can live her civilization can live. I am not a scholar like her but today I promise her battal will we continue by me.
Everyone should watch agora 2009 movie one of its kind movie which tell about how 2000yrs old roman pagan culture brutally ruined by Abrahamic Christianity culture and his knowledge lost in times. Must watch to see how pagan great heritage destroyed by bigot Abrahamic cultures like Christianity and islam.
Have you even watched it?
@@shashankvirahi5221Roman culture was extremely bigoted, they saw everyone non roman as animals.
OMFG she was so beautiful why didn't everyone worship this woman!!???
Maybe they were less superficial than you
The actress who played Hypatia is beautiful. Who knows if the real one was?
@@Elly3981
I believe at least one of the contemporary accounts describes her as unusually attractive, though that's likely a literary device of equating moral virtue with physical beauty.
Its sad that every religion is agressive in some ways...
Nix CZ not Buddhism Fam
@@californianasianpersuasion3777 Have you ever heard of the Ikko Ikki?
imagine being such a pussy that violence in all forms is evil and thus should be avoided
Nix CZ created by Humans...yeah.
Buddhism is the most HUMANISTIC religion, but the most “religious” parts are trash.
ϟhitlord imagine being so weak, that violence is the only way to show strength
Anyone here after the black hole incident....?
Nope. What are you referring to?
She probably had it coming anyway.
You sound like a real jerk
@@lindareese4579 You sound like Norm MacDonald.
@@lindareese4579 She was a pagan
@@lindareese4579 He is right
And so? Would you Catholics and Christians like it if Pagans or any other beliefs chose to slaughter you all off and destroy your churches? No right? Go learn to respect another living being's life was it not written in the 10 Commandments "Thou shalt not kill"
yeah they only murdered anyone who went against bible teaching. No hostility. Yeah. Unwarrented claims! like made against galileo