Unfortunately, many civilization interactions are like this: Colonists: ''Hello! We would like to live with you, intermarry and build up a new civilization !" Locals : Toss Spear through the chest of the outsiders.... Colonists: Urrggh, I take it you don't like that idea ? hmmmmrgh (dies).
I thought Lee's biggest mistake was managing to lose Pegasus, but being the lead advocate for ditching everything that could help the fledgling colony survive on a hostile new world takes the cake.
No. Lee's decision was dangerous and radical but humanity survived, and his decision to drop humans back to the stone age brought mankind 250,000 years and a completely clean slate free of the mistakes of past generations. Humans were then free to muck it up themselves without anyone else to blame. If they'd had high technology history proves it would have been less than 1000 years until the Cylons or something like them returned. Instead humanity got 250,000 years to heal and restore its vitality before the next robotic crisis was even possible. Oh and unlike the 12 Colonies, humanity had only one sanctuary left this time. If they lost New Earth, they lost everything they had left. It was a chhance Lee was probably right not to take, given the stakes. There was really nowhere else to go this time after all. Old Earth, New Caprica and the original 12 were out there but it would be tens of thousands of years before they could become fully habitable again. That was a huge issue at the time, but now 250,000 years have passed. Now when this new human civilization reaches for the stars there are at least 15 habitable worlds out there waiting for humanity to find them -- Old earth, Kobol, New Caprica and the 12 all long since abandoned and returned to nature and with all the time they needed for the radiation to die down. And if they manage not to repeat their mistakes they might even get to keep them this time.
The Adamas were good at working against the interests of humanity. Keep in mind that Bill rebelled against every authority figure the fleet ever had--Roslin, Zarek, Cain--except for the one who was actually a Cylon sympathizer.
@@TrackerNeil He eventually got on good terms with Roslin, Zarek was literally a Terrorist and Cain would have sacrificed all of humanity to continue her pointless war.
So you are advocating for literally stealing the planet from the natives for their own benefit. Becasue that is what colonialism as initially proposed would sooner or later lead to. What right do they have to steel and basically enslave a planet for their own?
more true than you think... just minutes after this when "the angels" talk in "the current times" they say Hera's corpse was from a "young woman" .. meaning she died young
@@sparrowlt hah. Missed that. And the robot montage alluding to a repeat of the cycle just confirms things: Lee's dumbfuckwitery just MADE the cycle happen again because they destroyed ALL capabilities of long term record keeping.
The irony is that modern Homo sapiens DNA has entire blocks of both Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA woven into it because that "joke" was actually what happened... :-)
Lee's line in itself would be their own undoing seeing how the best of themselves would still contaminate and pollute the hunter-gatherers thus repeating the cycle all over again. I mean hey just look at us now. Nothing has changed, haha.
The Centurions didn't have to earn their freedom. They were created to be free -- that's why Cavil had to put those inhibitor chips in them, to keep them from exercising free will.
The subtle implication is that the robots enslaved themselves and the humans had built them to be free. Humans enslave robots. Humans set robots free. Robots enslave robots. Kinda of a classic "I learned it by watch you" moment.
"Hey, sweet, a new planet to coloniz--oh, no, we're all dropping dead from smallpox and our only hope of saving our race is sitting vaporized at the center of the Sun, oh well."
This was a perfect setup for them to found the city of Atlantis or something. Land those ships on a spot with fertile ground and lots of resources. Dismantle them all and use the parts to build your city. Dammit.
Nothing saying they didn't go on to found Atlantis. The Cylons are basically immortal barring a violent death. They would be the keepers of forgotten knowledge as to the ships, they were worn out, major components were breaking down and most of the industrial equipment necessary to reshaping the material into something else was left behind on New Caprica.
At the absolute minimum the ships would be way better shelters than whatever you could throw together by hand. Not to mention that if you have any extrasolar mining capability AT ALL you have one huge leg up on rebuilding your civilization.
David Kelly oh wow i didn't even think about that. I also remember that there used to be a huge sea in central Australia but I think that was long before 150000 years ago
Polio didn't become a real problem until we started living in cities. Polio is mainly passed through contact with infected feces. Before the 1800's, cases of polio were rare and (according to the website historyofvaccines.com) only resulted in paralysis in less than 2% of cases. That sombitch done mutated in the cities where people were shitting where they were eating all the time. Typhoid on the on the hand may be more of an issue. In reality though, viruses wouldn't be near the problem for people living like this than bacterial infections and infections from injuries and that can generally be dealt with herbally. Stone aged hunter gatherers lived a pretty long life IF they made it to adulthood without getting a bad ear infection or bitten by a snake or something (archeologists estimate only about 57% lived to age 15). Until Europeans brought a little smallpox to the continent, Cherokee were known to have very often lived to be over 100 years old.
Polio didn't get drop-dead deadly until the US was saturated with DDT. Before DDT, polio was quite survivable, paralysis often temporary. Need for iron lungs was minuscule. DDT is a low-key nerve agent, polio attacks nerves indirectly. 2+2=17 when it comes to neurochemistry. After DDT was common, polio was causing permanent all-body paralysis. If you couldn't afford (or find!) an iron-lung, you died. The Salk vaccines didn't become widely available until after the death rate had dropped significantly. The death rate dropped months after companies making DDT and the precursor chemicals stopped operations. The vaccine was in wide distribution about the time the death rate was nearly down to pre-DDT levels. Salk was given many honors for his miraculous vaccine, but later on made a number of statements that his work had very little impact. He vacated his post at the CDC in protest. If the guy who invented the vaccine disowned it and stepped away from a leadership role with the CDC, something far bigger was going on. Why would one of the most profitable chemical industries in the US at the time just suddenly stop all operations? There is no record indicating why this would be. DDT production was moved offshore, exporting the problem. Don't rust me? Look at domestic DDT production by year, and map that against polio lethality by year. Then map new polio cases against vaccine distribution by years, and weirdly enough, the number of infections was dropping before wide-spread manufacture, let alone distribution was occurring. Yes, Salk gave us a usable polio vaccine, but the deadliest part of the outbreak was man-made.
They saw what humanity was doing and thought "Allright, if you are so keen on killing yourself, let us lend a hand and give you a rather quick death instead of a slow one."
Lee: We break the cycle. We leave it all behind and start over. Humanity, 150.000 years later: Oh man, these new AI and robots sure look cool Lee: Am I a joke to you? Really makes you think that it was pointless. They went through all of this to just throw everything out of the window
@@SCARRIOR Not a very nice break on the earth's ecosystem and co2 levels. Just saying, a space-faring race would probably have an easier time NOT killing the planet and NOT descending into factional warfare. Surrendering knoweledge like that is a collosal fuckup that invites repitition, which is why we - thousands of years later - burned down the library of alexandria and also forgot how to make cement. TWICE.
Yeah, I'm surprised that there wasn't an uprising too. Somebody would have said, "I want my microwave." or, "I want heat and A/C" or, "No damn WAY I'm having sex with THAT!"
Forget the microwave... how about "I want to be able to make antibiotics"... otherwise, everybody gets the pleasure of dying early due to infection. Dumb ending. Just dumb.
It was stupid.. esentially the colonial civilization gets totally wiped out.. because this is 150K years before now and the earliest writings or signs of any civilization of any kind are (if i dotn renember bad) 50 to 15000 years before now.. that meant that not only colonial civilization got absolutelly wiped out.. but that those humans took another extra 100 to 130K years just to begin writing in rocks... You probably know all this is RDM fault because he readed a National Geographic magazine about the theory of the Mitocontrial Eve and then he wanted to make her Hera.. but that meant putting the colonials arrival at 150000 years ago.. He should had made them land like 15000 or 5000 years ago when Egyptian civilization began to blossom... or allow anyone who wanted to stay in earth and the rest leave with the Cylons somewhere else watching over earth as long as posible... anything but this
Not to mention the fact that the Colonials haven't developed immunities to diseases and microbes on planet as well as them importing alien counterparts on the unsuspecting non immune locals. Small pox in the new world, remember that in history class Hollywood writers? Then you send the means to create vaccines and other treatments straight into the sun. Fucking hippies.
The best part of the ending was giving the renegade Cylons their freedom. I would love to know what they decided to do on their own after 150,000 years.
Considering what Cavil said about wanting to hear X-rays and see ultraviolet light, they probably just went across the universe studying and witnessing all of creation.
and thousands of years later the descendants of the centurions detected the explosion of nuclear weapons on earth and thought "the prophecy was fulfilled ... we pass on the knowledge of their ancestors ... or we eliminate them once and for all, TIME OF THE JUDGMENT"
My idea for a better ending, with borrowed ideas from the game Homeworld: The colonials opt to move the fleet into parking orbit in one of Jupiter's many moons. The location of the fleet, plus every scrap of knowledge that could be accumulated, gets loaded into an archive. The archive is split into multiple fragments and scattered to every corner of Earth. In order to be fully decrypted, all the fragments must be found. They are paired with a radioactive beacon, something with a half-life of hundreds of thousands of years. If the colonials' descendants want to follow the ancients' footsteps to the stars, they'll have to cooperate. Thus the Fleet sleeps, until the day it may be needed again.
Not without 5 years worth of orbital simulations. The Jovian system's many influential fields (gravitational, atmospheric, electrical) would inflict too many variables into a passive orbit. The ships would need to have some guidance and RCS system maintained to keep them from plunging into Jupiter. And it had better be robust too. The Io/Jupiter flux tube is one nasty customer. It can fry even the most hardened modern electrical system.
This ending was a missed opportunity for the city of Atlantis to be formed, and for the complete record of all colonial history and the mistreatment of AI that lead them to this fate. We could have stood to benefit from that now.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 In this other site, Quora, every time I'd post a question about a science fiction TV or movie series, SOMEBODY upbraided me, telling me " IT'S NOT REAL ! ", etc. I finally gave up out of frustration, disgust, & the feeling of banging my head against a rock.
Yes, we can start anew! A clean slate! A new beginning! Two weeks later... So, I have malaria and my wife and kids have pneumonia. Any chance we have any of that modern medicine left? No? Ok... Two weeks later... Grog, you notice all weird sky people dead?
@@davidnelson7719 yep I watched/heard/read "War of the Worlds" also and I would have been leading the protest for keeping basic medicines (esp. the anti-'s*). At least homeopathic on concert with the existing local remedies. *i.e. antibiotic, antiseptic, antiviral, antimicrobial, anti diarrheal[ etc.
@@robertg7249 And how would they manufacture medicine, or anything for that matter? After a year or so, they would be wearing animal skins and brushing their teeth with sticks.
@@CieJe.Alexander Homeopathic in concert with the local remedies?? You mean the stuff we had in the 1800s, when people died from broken toes and diarrhea?
I heard that Nuked Earth was written with the assumption that the show might not come back from the writer's strike and may have to serve as a series finale.
Yes, it would have been very upsetting. I'm one of those people who was 10 years old when the original series ended in 1978. I was in it to see the end of the story. I thought Moore did an excellent job of modernizing the approach.
My personal headcanon is that some people left with the Cylons, said they'd set the ships to sail into the sun but not, and instead colonize the other side of the planet WITH all our technology.
They don't even have the tools to do that. Hell, those ships were literally on their last legs as it is. All of that tech requires infrastructure and tools that the RTF simply doesn't have...
2020: the Cylons return. I mean, why not? We've gone through almost everything else this year, why not add a robot alien invasion to the mix for some fun?
What if Anders changed his mind and instead of flying the fleet into the sun, he put the fleet into a stable orbit around the Sun. What if we could write a story about us finding it about now and that the Cylon "GOO" had worked it's magic? What a tale would be told.
Put them in parking orbits in the asteroid field. They mostly may not be warships but would still have things to teach us about the engineering of FTL drives. By putting the fleet in the asteroid field, they would insure that we would be a space-faring civilization before we found it. We're good at putting guns on modes of transport. With space-based manufacturing and the resources of the asteroid belt, we might be ready in case the Cylons return. Unless we build them ourselves.
Darthhooktu could you imagine a centurion ship showing up over the skies of New York as the series ends, with Head Six turning to Head Baltar and saying “This should be interesting”
I like it, BSG / Enterprise cross over - where is your script ? It sounds like a real money maker $$$, toss in SG-1 from a mirror universe , along with a cameo visit by the Doctor in his Blue Box, and you got yourself a real gold mine !
Hated the ending of going primitive completely idiotic! Breaking the cycle? If you forget the past you'll only repeat it again didn't anyone learn that lesson.
I mean what Lee is suggesting is EXACTLY what the Kobalians did when they got to the 12 colonies. It took them 2k years to get back to where they were when they fled the Cylons on Kobal and that was with their history intact. Lee even wants to dump that and doom humanity to 150k years of barbarism just to start building new Cylons. What they SHOULD have done is name drop Atlantis while discussing the city layout then cut away to Lee and Bill saying their goodbyes.
Hey, go ahead and destroy the only long-standing records of any of this happening. What's the worst that could happen? I remember an ongoing meme at a forum I used to visit where various crew members, now planetside, died of the dumbest, most easily prevented thing. One former flight deck ape gets mauled by a rhino that could have been shot, hundreds died of infections that could have been cured, etc.
Same thoughts here. This is an idiotic ending. How are these people even going to get food? Without farmers and tools or equipement? Not to mention deseases...
And,shit, the wildlife. They are deploying in Africa, SE Asia, Australia, etc. Those three alone will have wildlife and predators that will kill a lot of defenseless people that have *no knowledge of the fauna*. "Grizzly bear? That sounds kind of cute!"
150,000 years ago, plus thats 150k of dying through simple but now uncurable deseases or your own wisdom teeth, not to mention earths predators i.e. lions, snakes, sabretooths etc. All so some cylon god who started the whole mess in the first place could fulfill its plan, one that cost billions of lives and ultimately leads humanity to where it is now, divided on religion, etc. Amazing plan there Lee Adama lets leave it all behind and suffer in ignorance for thousands upon thousands of years - you complete asshole!
I was seriously torn between screaming and crying when it hit me what they were going to do. The technology they have is literally the result of tens of thousands of years of hard work by people spending their entire lives to figure out the math, chemistry, physics, etc to make everything from the ship itself to your cell phone. And you're just going to throw the results of countless hours of R&D away like yesterday's newspaper. That's not just stupid that's an insult to the entire human race.
That "technology" and the vanity is brought was the REASON they lost the colonies and had to flee across the stars to begin with. Keep it? Then what? Oh it's too much work... let's build some robots to help ease the load. Oh.... shit."
Bunch of bulshit some of those ships Got Hijacked and landed on the moon and it was count thousands of years later by NASA in the Pentagon and it kept it a secret in the fucking Pentagon got a hard-on with all of that Tech just laying in the moondust question below wait a minute that was already done with the Transformers I forgot
I might be in the minority here but I really liked the ending. After all the crap they had been true, it makes sense to me that they decided to leave everything behind and like Adama say start with a clean Slade.
it’s not the greatest, but it’s certainly not the travesty people make it out to be. everyone saying things like, “they don’t know how to survive without their stuff” are forgetting some key points. A) these are people who just spent spent the last few years fighting to survive, and before the cylons came, those on New Caprica were just living in tents anyway. that fact actually makes the proposal for a city seem stupid since why didn’t they have one on New Caprica? it was more like a campsite. which is exactly what they’ll have now. B) they were pretty much out of raw resources and materials at that point anyway, the ships wouldn’t be able to get anymore fuel, they barely had any ammo left, they were out of friggin toothpaste if people recall, so what good would the ships do them in the long run? they were pretty close to having all their tech just be useless paperweights anyway, so ditching it wasn’t that much of a stretch at that point. C) they knew how to survive in hostile environments- i guarantee that at least some military people went with each group. the wildlife of Earth would be nothing compared to what they’ve dealt with, plus the natives clearly know how to hunt as it is.
@@mkv2718 A) Some merit to this. The Rag Tag fleet had been through a lot in the last few years, including the absolute gut punch of the other radioactively destroyed world they'd recently visited. So the emotional state of the people was pretty vulnerable. Possibly vulnerable enough to follow Apollo's devastatingly bad plan for just long enough to wake up on the far side without the ships, libraries, medicine, hot water, power, tools, mobility, etc. needed to really survive on this world. B) Those ships were still a treasury worthy of keeping and insane to destroy. Even crippled, they'd offer early shelter from weather and local predators. Moreover, energy for light, hot water, laundry, libraries, medical tool sterilization, and so on. Amongst those ships were basic tools that could've helped rebuild the basics for a climb back up the technology ladder. As for raw resources, they've just arrived on our world - which for their eyes would be a plum ripe with the resources of breathable air, fresh food sources, untouched deposits of every mineral, no pollution, no radioactive fallout, pristine. They could make a go of it - if they hadn't decided to just chuck every needed tool and civilizational advantage into the Sun. C) Yeah, they knew how to survive - by building a city. Not so much by wandering out into sabertooth tiger infested grasslands with only the clothing on their backs sans the hunter gatherer skills the locals relied upon. Those sabertooth tigers only went extinct about 10,000 years ago, so about 140,000 years in their future. Whereas agriculture and writing and even the kind of religions these people believed in aren't generally identified until a similar number of millenia later. The local animal threats did fine, the Colonials - not so much. Fortunately the Cylons out in space may eventually be a bridge for returning humanity's lost knowledge. The Head Cylons (Angelic) could also do that, but they're playing for team Zeus, not humanity - so you can't rely on them for anything nice. Those freed Colonial Cylons might even have continued occupying and restoring Caprica and other colonial worlds, so perhaps Apollo's disastrous burning of the libraries can ultimately be reversed.
While I think it's bad idea generally, I understand why they did it. They were going to go through technological and civilization regression anyway, with remains they have from their destroyed civilization, just like their ancestors did when they arrived to colonies (all of them, including 13) and there is good chance that 1-2 000 years later, they will repeat mistakes again. So by leaving technology behind, they at least made circle longer. Hopefully message is that humanity could learn from their history of war and slavery and not repeat mistakes with robots (without knowing about pre earth 2 history, purely thanks to their own history). If it will be success and they will break circle is thing for future. I would definitely leave Galactica behind (and rest of ships), but not somewhere they can find it. Basically leave records in ships about history (in many different forms, not know if they have same language and what will survive) and leave them somewhere in space or something. How long it would need to survive and if it would survive is questionable, but at this point, it would be in God's hands. If humanity needs remainder about their history, hopefully God will make them find it one way or another.
Every time one of these BSG clips comes up on my feed I'm reminded just how frakkin' good this series was. Everything has stood up to the test of time, and like a fine wine has just improved with age.
The robots most likely decided to avoid all contact with a race fundemently unable to learn from its mistakes. To the point they wrecked their own ships and deliberately forgot all their errors for poorly considered reasons.
Heck yes. A race that intentionally cuts its own chances of survival to zero by wholesale abandonment of thousands of years of advancement is too stupid to live. Personally I would literally get on the radio and beg to sign on with the Cylons. I would literally rather be a janitor for them than stay with my 'fellow' humans who apparently all lost their freaking minds.
Before we knew they arrived 150,000 years ago, I always thought it would be great for Galactica to enter the Sol system, Cylons hot on their trail, and receive a hail.....from the Enterprise.
@@relentless3169 It's worth a watch if you're REALLY drunk actually. Was way too campy for my taste. It did have a few bright spots and concepts though i admit.
Right?! Sure, let's not only give up space travel and all our technology.. let's destroy it forever because we won't change our minds and those cylons won't come back and hurt us. Pass me a coconut Starbuck. Personally, I would have commandeered one of those ships and kept travelling. By the way; sending the fleet into the sun 93,000,000 miles away when you have a perfectly good moon 248,000 miles away to crash them into, makes no sense. Here is a more realistic plan; Anyone wanting to go native may do so. Those wishing to stay in the stars may do so. Any leftover ships will be landed on the dark side of the moon.. just in case grass skirts, disease, tribal warfare, or those cylons come back.
Matthew Edwards and what would you have the fight with? Galactica didn't have any fight left she was done. Did you see what happened on the final jump?
Look, I'm not that big a fan of it either, but Lee has a point - we don't think whether we SHOULD do something as soon as we find out we CAN. Real world, people. How many times did humanity nearly destroy itself because we DIDN'T think & "just did"?
@@scotcarr3390 I agree that this was the gist of the message, but my issue with it is twofold. Firstly, it's utterly defeatist. We can apply that argument to every technological advancement that has the 'possibility' of being misused. What's the alternative? To remain cavemen? To even forgo the use of fire in case something burns down? All technology is potentially dangerous, and what is technology really? It's just knowledge with practical application. So the series is basically advocating ignorance as a solution, at which point mankind may as well put a gun to its collective head and pull the trigger, except it threw away all the guns and apparently shuns the knowledge of what the trigger will do. Instead of regressing technology, (as the series acknowledges that it will be rebuilt eventually anyway), then surely the focus must be on dealing with it responsibly? Now the series does indicate that this is the message they wish to propagate, so why do my plums ache? Well, they failed. The 'present day' ending shows mankind going down the same route of creating artificial life, completely unaware of the bloody history that mankind has with machines. Whatever warning the Colonials wanted to leave was utterly lost, probably because they didn't have adequate technology left to preserve it ... So, they did nothing to resolve this eternal mankind vs machine outcome that seems to repeat through the epochs of civilisation. They just delayed it at considerable personal cost, and one could argue threw away the opportunity to adequately warn future civilisations in a fit of luddite pique. And secondly, who in their right mind would embrace this as a solution? We're going to destroy all our technology, including medical advances, and go live as hunter gatherers. We'll keep whatever medical supplies we have, but those are going to run out quick unless we set to work reproducing them, and we're not going to do that. Who's up for it? Not anyone who wants to live, presumably. With no resupply of meds, average life expectancy would plummet. Within a generation, trivial medical issues become life-threatening, such a flu, cuts, child birth. Native predators become much bigger threats, and essentially, you roll the dice on whether any of the colonial mankind survives at all. What does survive, becomes a regressed, short lived and brutalised version of the species that because they didn't do enough to preserve the warning against using AI, is condemned to repeat the same mistakes once they advance far enough. So, yeah ... that's my ramble.
@@Rekaert I promise I'll shut up after this response...🙃 Look, I agree myself the ending was, to put it mildly, weak & not only was bad writing, it ruined an otherwise awesome episode. "Daybreak" was a great finale. Still is. The plot was dramatic & bold. The climax was brilliant. Everything worked. And THEN the writer, director, & showrunner weinied out & took all the viewers right out of the show. I think of myself as a writer & teacher. I know the mechanics of good storytelling. I know what works, what doesn't, what a good resolution is & what a cheap way out of writing yourself into a corner looks like. Therefore, I agree w/the author/critic who said these guys just ignored the truth about using deux ex machina as a giant get out of jail card. It's cheap, lazy, & just plain insulting to your audience. But it was done. And they were trying to make a point which was valid. What am I going to do? Say the theme of the series is invalidated by a moment of panic by the person writing the script? Hate the entire finale because they panicked & wanted a cheap fix? I've come to the conclusion almost every reviewer did as well - the BSG story team pulled an occasional cheat to fix a spontaneous problematic element they introduced on a whim - Starbuck's death & resurrection. The identity of the Final 5. Hell, the whole concept of their identities or purpose. Good ideas they incorporated w/out thinking of a proper solution, only to just do a mulligan 1 or 2 "just because" to resolve 'em. All cheap writing tricks to get them past a "holy ,$#!+!" thing they thought would be a cool shock plot twist that they had no idea how to resolve. Bad writing & terrible continuity that crapped on an otherwise fine show. Sometimes, though, y'gotta let something like that slide. BSG 2000's was a great show w/major warts. More like tumors. But nothing is perfect & sometimes, even badly thought-out twists & panic resolutions of same, you just gotta love the ride. I know they're glaring goofs in an otherwise impeccable show, but I'm willing to forgive them because everything else was so damn good. So, yeah, parts of the continuity makes me cringe. I wonder where the "grown-ups" were when these caskrt nails were pushed. But, dammit, I loved the show. And I liked the somewhat happy ending, even though the actions taken strained credibility ridiculously, charitably put. I don't mind the cheap resolution because the vast majority of the show was so damned compelling.
@@scotcarr3390 Oh hey don't shut up on my behalf. I'm guiltier than most for rambling on, and I like hearing what other people thought. Honestly I don't think we're far removed in opinion. We both recognise the short-comings and I also loved the show 'generally'. I bought it. I've seen it through a couple of times. They did amazing things with it, and elevated it from a simple space opera to a much more human approach, of how people cope in such a situation, how law and order breaks down, and how the military can be a double edged sword. Their take on suicide bombings when they were happening in the real world was bold to say the least. I could criticise the ending all day long, but you shouldn't take that as a general dislike for the series. Nothing could be further from the truth. The sight of Galactica's back breaking is gut-wrenching for someone who has watched that ship deliver the crew through disaster after disaster. You simply don't have that response to it if you haven't developed a love of the series. From the writing aspect, yeah they committed a cardinal sin. In the fantasy genre, a writer tries to steer clear of using magic as a problem solver for all the reasons you list. It can be pulled out of the hat when you hit a corner, it encourages lazy plot, and the audience finds it unsatisfying. Same thing with the "God did it" approach they used increasingly as BSG progressed. But hey, it is what it is. They wrote the ending they wanted and don't owe anyone anything. Taken as a whole, the series is great. If it wasn't, people like me wouldn't be prepared to write lengthy comments about it, so they must have done something right.
Beautiful, completely satisfying ending. What so many people seem to miss is that for the four year journey we only get to see things from the point of view of the military who, while they do suffer, at least know what is going on. How terrible it must have been for the thousands of civilians living in cramped quarters constantly caught between the authorities and criminal elements. Spending months at a time doing very little but waiting. Finally making it to "earth" only to discover a burnt out shell. When they finally walked free on the plains of Africa it is difficult to imagine the relief they must have felt. Four years imprisoned between bulkheads. The idea of them never wanting to return, to make a home on this new where they can once again be the masters of their own destiny. How can anyone not see why they were happy to walk away.
Flying all that technology into the sun makes no sense. Less than 40k humans left on a new and unfamiliar world? You need all the help you can get. Overall a terrible ending to what was a phenomenal series.
"never underestimate the desire for a clean slate"....... Think about early pilgrims coming from Europe to start a life in the colonies. People coming from England to start a new chapter in the Americas actually brought technology with them. Totally the opposite of what happened here. There are heritage gold mine towns in Western Canada that actually have slate pool tables that settlers brought with them. Some people brought furnaces! There are so many ways to rewrite this to still have the potent message and not be idiotic
THEY were not bringing FTLs or weapons or the other baggage... The fleet was done. New Caprica would have been a paradise in comparison. Maybe they could have held on to some of it... for a while. Probably not. I would say, in theory integrating with the existing population - slowly - was the best idea.
It would have been better if the choice to leave technology behind was involuntary. Perhaps we see the colonials lose what’s left of their medicine and lose the parts to produce new products. Then maybe losing the fleet would make more sense.
@@drx1xym154 Losing the tech wasn't the problem. There were other ways to do it-it's not like they had a way to maintain most of it anymore, so degradation over time is an obvious choice. Choosing to forget the past is just insane.
I also came up with a different ending. That part mentioning "giving up the creature comforts" doesn't work. Colonials would build their city. The time line would be moved 70.000 years, when Mount Toba erupted in Indonesia, in what would be one of the biggest volcanic eruptions in the history os the planet and reduced the human population to a few hundreds. Every vestige of colonials, Cylons and their technology would be erased. The whole fleet would be driven to the Sun, except Galactica. After Laura's death Adama would return to Galactica, to be Earth's sentinel. The Battlestar would be hidden in a cave on the Moon. The series would end with the "angels" walking in Times Square at night, talking about the progress of human kind and its evolution. One of them would mention the fact that our race learned about loyalty. The camera would look up, zoom through the atmosphere, the space, towards the Moon, into a crater, a cave, the old starship, the CIC. There, we would see Anders, still in control and, by his side, a skeleton with a uniform. Laying on the ground, by its side, an open book and a photo of Laura. This would be a final worthy of Battlestar Galactica.
@Matthew Caughey I really like that ending, it has a lot more emotional impact than the real one and makes more sense overall, too. I hate how wasteful the actual ending of the show was :( I understand the point Lee was making, and why people wanted a clean slate, but that was a very drastic step to take to achieve it.
@Matthew Caughey No, we are not from this planet. I grew up in West Africa and from a very young age, believed I wasn’t really from this planet. Even now, at 60 years old, I still believe this. I’ve seen and experienced out of this world things that enhance that belief. I’m sure I’m not alone in believing this. We do have extraterrestrial origins - many of us have forgotten our true identity - and in some of us, like me, that data is encoded in my DNA. No, I’m neither crazy nor seeking attention - there’s some truth in all of these ancient astronaut/ ET theories. Many of us are hybrids - human looking, but also of extraterrestrial origins.
Uhm... problem is, that after 70k years of development, this is still 5x as long as Colonials existed in Cyrranus system. They'd colonize dozens of planets by that time. To technology and cultural memes to last, they'd had to be clsoer to 15k years, think Atlantis.
"Every vestige erased" Lol, you are an idiot. We've found fossils hundreds of millions of years old (even billions for micro organisms). Pompeii, is a fine example of how well volcanic eruptions can 'erase' cities not actually buried in lava.
@@andrewstrongman305 and you're naive if you believe that any advanced technology dug up from under the ground would be revealed to the masses instead of being confiscated, hidden and studied by the militaries and governments of the world. You probably believe that if Extraterrestrial life was ever found and confirmed that the knowledge of their existence would also be given to the masses. The mass panic all of that would cause would make the hoarding and civil unrest we experienced from the covid pandemic look like a picnic by comparison. Just look at all the toilet paper hoarding from the start of the pandemic and all the rest of irrational behavior. Add to that breakdown of supply chains and multiply it by a thousand The complete breakdown of civilization on a global scale. Humanity is too fragile to know the truth.
All of this has happened before and will happen again. I get the feeling this is what happened after Kobol Destruction. The 12 tribes found the Cyrannus star system and they did the same thing. They saw all of the habital worlds and decided to go with a clean slate. 12 worlds for 12 Tribes. I wish their was a more extensive lore to Battlestar Galactica
A little late to this party but you are correct, and there is a tiny bit more lore if dig. I normally hate comics as a storytelling medium but there is a series that covers it so I bought it. Called "The Final Five", and it's pretty good. It explains a _ton_ of stuff, including Starbuck and how both the 12 colonies and the 13th tribe ended up where they are. The ending actually makes sense after reading these. One of the writers from the show wrote it
I have all four seasons sitting on a shelf, and I've not been able to bring myself to watch them, as good as especially the first 3 seasons were, because I know I'll just have to face this ending all over again.
Galactica would still be practically dead and without maintenance crews she would eventually destroy herself. He could have theoretically put down the fleet on the side of the moon facing away from Earth. That way there would still be a vault of knowledge for humanity to tap into once they are advanced enough to get into space.
@@AnonD38 Yes, the Galactica would've been trapped in our system with her broken spine, but the other ships in the fleet weren't in the same state. Since the war with the Cylons was effectively over, some of the fleet's constituent captains might've bucked at throwing away their ships and made a gambit to return to the Colonies. A place where we know the Cylons were expending efforts to restore in order for the human form Cylons to survive. BTW, I do really like that idea of the Galactic 'landed' somewhere on the backside of the moon. Homeworld vibes with that idea.
I always liked the idea of them turning up at Earth during the 60s or 70s. Integrate themselves in mankind and see huge leaps in technology like we saw in that era.
Actually on a pod cast Ron Moore said that a alternative option ending would be to have present day archaeologists discover the Galactica in present day South America under those massive man made mounds that are there today.
How to fix the ending. Step 1 set it 5,000-10,000 years ago. Step 2 Stash Colonial One somewhere where mankind can find her and the history of the colonies when they’re ready. Step 3 show a series of flashes of the Colonials integrating with the various civilizations and finally step 4 show people who look like the character walking around in the present day.
TheBaconWizard The Milky Way is more than 110000km acid and Andromeda is 2M LY away. The survivors literally came to this 🌍 earth and settled in the end. The colony ships didn’t have force fields, and they ran on a fuel that needed constant refueling. So yes, I presume their galaxy is our galaxy.
imagine not starting fresh and they kept the ships and the technology and they laid out a map for a city.. imagine how powerful humans would be 150,000 years later !!!
This ending doesn't makes sense. 40,000 people willing to give everything up for what and there wasn't any gaurantee that the cylons would not come back.
Keep in mind that the tech was failing. Galactica was done, crippled to the point that all she could do is limp around the solar system. And the rest of the fleet was in similar shape. i suppose they still could have used what knowledge they had to revert to an early industrial civilization, but I doubt they had the gear necessary for it. Most of that got left behind on New Caprica. So the best they could hope fro was a reversion to an iron age civilization. And the other Cylons would still be out there. BSG doesn't have magic Star Trek style sensors. Without a developed city visible from orbit, any Cylon ships might jump in, take a look around, even land. But finding a few dozen humans living a nomadic lifestyle would be next to impossible for them. Lee's plan was the best shot they had at survival.
Even in its failing state the Galactica would be suited as raw material for structures. Taking its life support systems for survival, it's stores of weapons ammunition could be converted into explosives for mining operations. The reactors for power, it's dismantled structure for shelter. It's not useful as a ship anymore, but it could endure as a home for humanity for centuries to come if converted into a city. The other ships, being newer and in better shape, could be used as a safeguard against natural disaster that could happen, sensors to detect possible asteroid impacts and act as safe refuge from major volcanic eruptions or other extinction level events. It makes no sense to throw away that safety net to random chances of disaster when you are trying to ensure survival.
Their tech was failing for being capable of extrasolar flight and combat. It would have still been a tremendous bootstrap to eventually get BACK to a civilization that can reach for the stars. To throw that all away to play "Little Tent on the Prairie" is absolutely insane.
What doesn't make sense is giving up ALL technology. While I could see abandoning their ships (maybe on the moon for their descendants to come back for) in case the Cyclons came back the idea that you'd entirely give up 23rd century technology to go back to stone tools is so stupid I literally don't have words for it.
If I had been stuck in my house for three years, yes I would want to spend a day outside, but I am not about to destroy the television and burn down the house with my fridge. That was a WTF ending. This return to primitive living does not appeal to me. I would be like Evil from Time Bandits when he laments how God took time to create so many diffent species of animals. "8 O'CLOCK DAY 1!" th-cam.com/video/To5wKh9Ypec/w-d-xo.html
Sam should have taken the fleet to the other side of the sun and put it in the same orbit of the earth and put the ship's systems to sleep . and they could have started a 2018 show of us finding the sleeping fleet of ships on the other side of our planets orbit, back engineer the ships and.............................................
David Olver My idea would be next moon landing would find a crashed Galatica near the landing area. People would start to access the ship but there are sleeping Cylons not meant to be awakened. Title would be Galatica: Revelations.
Space is actually quite hars.. micro meteor and radiation in 150K years would certainly fried those ships without some maintenance.. read about what awaits to Elon Musk Roadster wandering space
My ending: Galactica and the fleet arrives in orbit around earth, suddenly multiple missile launches are detected from earth, the fleet flees once again flees into deep space settling on a system not far from earth. Final shot: An advisor talks to a man sitting down facing away, telling him the unknown objects in orbit are gone, the chair turns revealing a Cavil model who simply nods, shot zooms out and reveals it to be the oval office.
That's Olmos's ending, too: "I personally - this is not [from] any of the writers, but my thing - I wanted to come into [the present day], find Earth, cruise on top of it, see it for what it is, and as we're coming down to it, we're blown up, we're nuked. And then [someone says to] the President of the United States, which is Bush, "They've been taken care of. Thank God you saved the world again." And you turn, and you see who told him that, and it's one of the Cylons."
That's like burning down your house and living in your backyard in a sleeping bag with nothing more than a spoon to live with while a big dog roams the neighbourhood. Pretty trusting.
Watching the series unfold, as much as I loved it, I had the increasing sense that the writers were tying themselves into a knot (or backing themselves into a corner, or whatever other metaphor you wish to use). I felt there was no way they could end this convincingly, but I watched hoping to be proven wrong, since I really did like so much of it. Alas, as far as I'm concerned, I was actually proven right. The ending is distinctly unconvincing and anti-climactic.
Part of me wondered about Option B. What is Option B you ask? That is where the Cyclons head back to the home world (either theirs or the humans). Because either one or two things are true. Either (a), the Cyclons completely left their homeworld when they attacked the 12 colonies thus it is ready for them to return to. Or (b) there are still Cyclons and humans living on the Cyclon homeworld and the human 12 colonies and they can try to find a way to mingle right in. Either way, it seems like the Cyclons have a solution to the problem that the humans may not necessarily have.
One of the comics series untied a lot of it for me. Enough for it to make sense at least. In fact, after reading those I really like _some_ parts of the ending. The whole let's abandon all of our technology really pisses me off to this day though
This version of the show was good until they landed on that one planet where they were trapped for a year. That sucked. Then the writers started taking long hiatuses between seasons and lost their magic. But the first season was good.
The mini series and the 1st season was brilliant, it was all pretty much down hill from there because as admitted by the writers, they haven't plan for a multi season long arc out, so they had not clue what the end of the story was going to be or how to get there.
As weird and daft as the ending of Battlestar Galactica was, with the woolly religious nonsense and bizarre Space-Amish decision to abandon and forsake effectively all technology, just be grateful this was written by a reluctant Catholic based on the work of a Mormon and not a Scientologist. Imagine Battlestar Galactica in the vein of Battlefield Earth. I will forever consider it a bullet dodged.
AllaMortify i can maybe understand saying fuck the ships, 6 years solid of being trapped aboard crapped and rapidly breaking down vessels is probably enough to make anyone want rid of them, or at least enough of a majority of people to win a vote on the idea. The oart i dont get is ditching everything else, medicine, guns and other advanced supplies would be such a massive help to making a new start it honestly makes no sense for them to abandon it
It would be a completely believable response to say "I've been trapped on this beat up ship for years, I want OFF!" because humans don't like being confined. But to throw away all the technology that came with them from your microwave to vaccinations?! That does not ensure your survival in any way. In fact it pretty much dooms you right there.
I realized after watching this episode about 20 times over the last 15 years, that there are five Centurions in this brief clip of the ones that were given their freedom. Thinking they must have evolved into the final five.
Adama said this world is one million light years away from where they started. The Milky Way Galaxy is only about 200,000 light years across. They would have had to have come from somewhere between here and the Andromeda galaxy (2.5 million light years away), which is silly.
They could have done a brilliant call back to the original series and had the Colonials raise great cities like Atlantis but no, instead no one will remember your struggle and there were humans here already so nothing mattered in the end.
So if they traveled 1 million light years then they came from another galaxy then. Not Andromeda since it's 2.5 million ly away, but maybe one of the closer smaller ones?
Accept that the year in 'light year' as we use it is an Earth year. The Colonies certainly have 12 completely different years but being colonies of Kobal they probably use a Kobalian year as the standard time base for the term 'light year'. If the planet Kobal takes 2.5 times longer than Earth to orbit it's sun, than one Kobalian 'light year' is 2.5 Earthean 'light years' while being the exact same amount of physical distance. Hence very likely the Colonial human's and their civilization are from what we call The Andromeda Galaxy tho other nearby galaxies may also be their origin. But the farther away their galaxy is the greater the distance that has to be compressed into Adama's statement of 'over 1 million light years away' (meaning less than 1.5) which means the Kobalian year on which it's based become longer and longer.
There is no closer galaxy than Andromeda. Given that jumping from one point to another required specific coordinates, how does one gain the proper coordinates across the immense intergalactic void into the orbit of a specific planet? Particularly when any visual reference would be over a million years out of date. Yes, I know. Starbuck had a vision that provided such coordinates. Can the ship even jump that far, as they had never entered the void prior to arriving at Earth? And if it could, why not escape to a nearby galaxy in the first place?
Wow. That is...the most insane, stupid idea i could ever think of. its one thing if they were stranded and helpless, but they literally are starting from ground 0. And that would be fine if not for the fact we know the history of the human race leading up to now and know that it only made things worse.
Heres an idea guys; instead of starting with some technology on 12 planets, lets instead pool our entire civilization onto one planet with the gambit that starting over and eventually raping the planets resources AGAIN as we inevitably industrialize (see; failure to efficiently teach and document our past) will somehow garner different results and hope that - in the process - we don't go extinct from inefficient usage. Ah yes, I can't wait to watch coal be the leading cause of our fucked up co2 levels
quoting their reasoning, "if there's one thing we should've learned it's that our brains have always outraced our hearts, our science charges ahead, our souls lagged behind" which explains why Yoda has a heart of gold and lives quite happily in a swamp
3 years later comment. Yes you get it too. The whole point of the end is that the original colonies:human and cylons were not meant to survive as own civilization, but just stay and live longe enough to interact and past on DNA and some skills like language and basic knowledge but without advanced technological knowledge, to the primitive humans of the new earth and then leave them to evolve on their own by dying out eventually. So yes a clean slate and a suicide mission of their entire human colonial civilization, just leaving the seed for development of the humans of earth in order to break the cycle of violence and destruction once and for all, ackording to the colonial humans and cylons by removing themselves from the equation.
What if in the next Battlestar Galactica reboot, the Cylon Basestar the Centurions have shows up again. All this has happened before; and all of it will happen again.
I can understand the idea of giving up the tech and the weapons, to go back to a simpler way of life. But to give up knowledge and learning, give up mathematics and chemistry and metallurgy? These are the very things modern humans love to do, and they would never give it up on a personal level. There would be thousands of colonials pushing back, setting up schools and educating their kids.
Seems odd not to just land the ships on the far side of the Moon. Not visible from Earth and by the time someone finds them they will be advanced enough to understand them.
JohnJ469 better to leave them visible from earth imho, so as soon as they developed good enough telescopes someone will eventually look at the Moon and say " hey what the heck are those?" And will be aware of their existence and wonder what they are and want to go investigate.
Good point. Nearside or Farside have the same result. I always think of "The Sentinel" by Arthur C Clarke and wonder if there is something we just haven't seen yet..... future-lives.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TheSentinel.pdf
Horrible finale to an absolutely incredible series! 😥 Less than 50,000 humans left and the call is to trash any technology that might help themselves survive on a planet that they know nothing about??
As the final beginnings of humanity began its slow march to the future, the cylons began their inevitable march to the furthest reaches of the galaxy and the inevitable evolution and creation of the Borg!
what garbage. Without tech, life is hard, short and constantly looking for food. There is a reason why a healthy human can live for 1 month without food but only 2 days without water. Also farming is alot more difficult without machines and farm animals.
James Wardrop Not with absoultly nothing and no prior survival experience.. fifty people can just as easliy die like the thousands who die from disease.
Going back just 2 centuries in technology IRL would royally suck and mean a lot of children would die due to lack of vaccines. Going back basically ten thousand years for a small group inexperienced at wilderness survival is nothing less than a suicide pact.
Adama: "We'll land civilians at various points..."
The people he lands in Australia when they see the wildlife: "uhhhh....."
*every colony not in africa dies because 150000 years ago humans were not in north america or other regions*
I don't think Australia was such a harsh continent back then.
L. O. L. !!
I laughed hard at your comment....It is how I see
places like Down Under, Africa, and the mountains of Mexico where my dad was from.
😂😂😂😂
I'm dead
I love how they’re trying to hide from the humans, while building a settlement right next to them.
Unfortunately, many civilization interactions are like this:
Colonists: ''Hello! We would like to live with you, intermarry and build up a new civilization !"
Locals : Toss Spear through the chest of the outsiders....
Colonists: Urrggh, I take it you don't like that idea ? hmmmmrgh (dies).
Not to mention it's kind of hard to hide a bunch of ships that are landing in broad daylight.
@@patrickmurray3846 they could be miles away
Well I think the idea would be to reveal themselves once they've studied them a bit more and attempt to integrate the societies.
@@SeaJay_Oceans Usually it’s the colonists who do all the killing
You know Baltar is redeemed when Adama is cracking a joke with him. Nice to see
I thought Lee's biggest mistake was managing to lose Pegasus, but being the lead advocate for ditching everything that could help the fledgling colony survive on a hostile new world takes the cake.
ya who's side is he actually on?
No. Lee's decision was dangerous and radical but humanity survived, and his decision to drop humans back to the stone age brought mankind 250,000 years and a completely clean slate free of the mistakes of past generations. Humans were then free to muck it up themselves without anyone else to blame.
If they'd had high technology history proves it would have been less than 1000 years until the Cylons or something like them returned. Instead humanity got 250,000 years to heal and restore its vitality before the next robotic crisis was even possible.
Oh and unlike the 12 Colonies, humanity had only one sanctuary left this time. If they lost New Earth, they lost everything they had left. It was a chhance Lee was probably right not to take, given the stakes. There was really nowhere else to go this time after all.
Old Earth, New Caprica and the original 12 were out there but it would be tens of thousands of years before they could become fully habitable again. That was a huge issue at the time, but now 250,000 years have passed. Now when this new human civilization reaches for the stars there are at least 15 habitable worlds out there waiting for humanity to find them -- Old earth, Kobol, New Caprica and the 12 all long since abandoned and returned to nature and with all the time they needed for the radiation to die down. And if they manage not to repeat their mistakes they might even get to keep them this time.
The Adamas were good at working against the interests of humanity. Keep in mind that Bill rebelled against every authority figure the fleet ever had--Roslin, Zarek, Cain--except for the one who was actually a Cylon sympathizer.
@@TrackerNeil He eventually got on good terms with Roslin, Zarek was literally a Terrorist and Cain would have sacrificed all of humanity to continue her pointless war.
So you are advocating for literally stealing the planet from the natives for their own benefit. Becasue that is what colonialism as initially proposed would sooner or later lead to. What right do they have to steel and basically enslave a planet for their own?
2:55 Group: "Uh yeah no that's stupid as hell"
*Group goes back to studying maps*
One can only hope XD
They should keep the ships to defend Earth from Goauld, ra is coming soon in Egypt :D
Fucking ancient aliens.
Usul573 brilliant 😂😂
@@usul573 Don't forget the Dalek Empire as well. They're the oldest and most deadliest enemy of all in the Galaxy.
@@mattmcdonald8059 Stargate. Watch this: /watch?v=VZWk4a6GHbs
Stargate and sg1
One year later: The colonial survivors have died from dysentery.
No shit
Oregon Trail..
more true than you think... just minutes after this when "the angels" talk in "the current times" they say Hera's corpse was from a "young woman" .. meaning she died young
@@sparrowlt hah. Missed that.
And the robot montage alluding to a repeat of the cycle just confirms things:
Lee's dumbfuckwitery just MADE the cycle happen again because they destroyed ALL capabilities of long term record keeping.
Would you like to play again?
Colonists: "We can breed with them, teach them, give them our best selves"
Natives: "Fresh meat!"
"DEATH BY SNU SNU!"
Ooga booga!!
The irony is that modern Homo sapiens DNA has entire blocks of both Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA woven into it because that "joke" was actually what happened... :-)
Cannibalism 😂😂😂
Lee's line in itself would be their own undoing seeing how the best of themselves would still contaminate and pollute the hunter-gatherers thus repeating the cycle all over again. I mean hey just look at us now. Nothing has changed, haha.
The Centurions didn't have to earn their freedom. They were created to be free -- that's why Cavil had to put those inhibitor chips in them, to keep them from exercising free will.
They had to regain thier freedom, they watered thier tree
what a joke,,
machine are laways slaves
The subtle implication is that the robots enslaved themselves and the humans had built them to be free. Humans enslave robots. Humans set robots free. Robots enslave robots. Kinda of a classic "I learned it by watch you" moment.
Yes let the killing machines free. I'm sure that'll be good for everyone.
@@LordTalax cuz yeah, humans never kill, right?
"Hey, sweet, a new planet to coloniz--oh, no, we're all dropping dead from smallpox and our only hope of saving our race is sitting vaporized at the center of the Sun, oh well."
This was a perfect setup for them to found the city of Atlantis or something. Land those ships on a spot with fertile ground and lots of resources. Dismantle them all and use the parts to build your city. Dammit.
Nothing saying they didn't go on to found Atlantis. The Cylons are basically immortal barring a violent death. They would be the keepers of forgotten knowledge as to the ships, they were worn out, major components were breaking down and most of the industrial equipment necessary to reshaping the material into something else was left behind on New Caprica.
Atlantis is a complete myth. Zero evidence outside of Homer. Just wishful thinking, rose colored glasses in the conservative mindset.
At the absolute minimum the ships would be way better shelters than whatever you could throw together by hand. Not to mention that if you have any extrasolar mining capability AT ALL you have one huge leg up on rebuilding your civilization.
Solon actually. Not that long ago the only evidence for the Hittites was the mention in the Bible, so it's still too early to say.
John Butler wouldn’t it be ironic if they found the lantean city ship of Atlantis, before they left for the Pegasus galaxy.., 😏😏
4:16,
lol whoever got sent to Australia got f-ed over.
lol the entire population probably received an evolutionary lobotomy
Ya but some of the purest gold is found there RIPE for the pickings lol
The spot they pointed to on the map is literally one of the worlds detest deserts too
@@LO-qs3sp this is during the ice age, remember. Totally different climate.
David Kelly oh wow i didn't even think about that. I also remember that there used to be a huge sea in central Australia but I think that was long before 150000 years ago
"Our brains have always outraced our hearts" Tell that to the polio vaccine.
Polio didn't become a real problem until we started living in cities. Polio is mainly passed through contact with infected feces. Before the 1800's, cases of polio were rare and (according to the website historyofvaccines.com) only resulted in paralysis in less than 2% of cases. That sombitch done mutated in the cities where people were shitting where they were eating all the time.
Typhoid on the on the hand may be more of an issue.
In reality though, viruses wouldn't be near the problem for people living like this than bacterial infections and infections from injuries and that can generally be dealt with herbally. Stone aged hunter gatherers lived a pretty long life IF they made it to adulthood without getting a bad ear infection or bitten by a snake or something (archeologists estimate only about 57% lived to age 15).
Until Europeans brought a little smallpox to the continent, Cherokee were known to have very often lived to be over 100 years old.
Polio didn't get drop-dead deadly until the US was saturated with DDT.
Before DDT, polio was quite survivable, paralysis often temporary. Need for iron lungs was minuscule.
DDT is a low-key nerve agent, polio attacks nerves indirectly. 2+2=17 when it comes to neurochemistry.
After DDT was common, polio was causing permanent all-body paralysis. If you couldn't afford (or find!) an iron-lung, you died.
The Salk vaccines didn't become widely available until after the death rate had dropped significantly.
The death rate dropped months after companies making DDT and the precursor chemicals stopped operations.
The vaccine was in wide distribution about the time the death rate was nearly down to pre-DDT levels.
Salk was given many honors for his miraculous vaccine, but later on made a number of statements that his work had very little impact. He vacated his post at the CDC in protest.
If the guy who invented the vaccine disowned it and stepped away from a leadership role with the CDC, something far bigger was going on.
Why would one of the most profitable chemical industries in the US at the time just suddenly stop all operations? There is no record indicating why this would be.
DDT production was moved offshore, exporting the problem.
Don't rust me? Look at domestic DDT production by year, and map that against polio lethality by year. Then map new polio cases against vaccine distribution by years, and weirdly enough, the number of infections was dropping before wide-spread manufacture, let alone distribution was occurring.
Yes, Salk gave us a usable polio vaccine, but the deadliest part of the outbreak was man-made.
The vaxxers already have.
@Mk. 5 /Eyeroll
Everything you just said was wrong.
Nuclear ICBMs vs the cure for Blindness. We have the first one, but not the other... Why ?
An hour later the Centurions came back and finished the job.
Why? Being machines with FTL they can afford to wait and build interstellar f...kin EMPIRE.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
lol
that is pathetic, Cee Bee.
@@piotrd.4850
Take out the cancer before it metastasizes? Kill it while it's small.
They saw what humanity was doing and thought "Allright, if you are so keen on killing yourself, let us lend a hand and give you a rather quick death instead of a slow one."
Lee: We break the cycle. We leave it all behind and start over.
Humanity, 150.000 years later: Oh man, these new AI and robots sure look cool
Lee: Am I a joke to you?
Really makes you think that it was pointless. They went through all of this to just throw everything out of the window
At least Lee made sure that Kara wasn't forgotten. Whenever I visit my local "Starbucks" I think of her xD
Lmao, 150,000 years is a long time, some would call it a nice break.
Humans make tools to make life easier. That's the catch.
@@SCARRIOR Not a very nice break on the earth's ecosystem and co2 levels. Just saying, a space-faring race would probably have an easier time NOT killing the planet and NOT descending into factional warfare. Surrendering knoweledge like that is a collosal fuckup that invites repitition, which is why we - thousands of years later - burned down the library of alexandria and also forgot how to make cement. TWICE.
Hey, we haven't wiped ourselves out yet.
Yeah, I'm surprised that there wasn't an uprising too. Somebody would have said, "I want my microwave." or, "I want heat and A/C" or, "No damn WAY I'm having sex with THAT!"
Forget the microwave... how about "I want to be able to make antibiotics"... otherwise, everybody gets the pleasure of dying early due to infection. Dumb ending. Just dumb.
No failbook. Sounds like paradise actually.
It was stupid.. esentially the colonial civilization gets totally wiped out.. because this is 150K years before now and the earliest writings or signs of any civilization of any kind are (if i dotn renember bad) 50 to 15000 years before now.. that meant that not only colonial civilization got absolutelly wiped out.. but that those humans took another extra 100 to 130K years just to begin writing in rocks...
You probably know all this is RDM fault because he readed a National Geographic magazine about the theory of the Mitocontrial Eve and then he wanted to make her Hera.. but that meant putting the colonials arrival at 150000 years ago..
He should had made them land like 15000 or 5000 years ago when Egyptian civilization began to blossom... or allow anyone who wanted to stay in earth and the rest leave with the Cylons somewhere else watching over earth as long as posible... anything but this
bobert4him dammit Lee. I left my Ps4 on that ship. Damnnyou.
Not to mention the fact that the Colonials haven't developed immunities to diseases and microbes on planet as well as them importing alien counterparts on the unsuspecting non immune locals. Small pox in the new world, remember that in history class Hollywood writers? Then you send the means to create vaccines and other treatments straight into the sun. Fucking hippies.
The best part of the ending was giving the renegade Cylons their freedom. I would love to know what they decided to do on their own after 150,000 years.
And that's how the Borg was created
They became the machines from the Matrix and properly enslaved us.
Considering what Cavil said about wanting to hear X-rays and see ultraviolet light, they probably just went across the universe studying and witnessing all of creation.
and thousands of years later the descendants of the centurions detected the explosion of nuclear weapons on earth and thought "the prophecy was fulfilled ... we pass on the knowledge of their ancestors ... or we eliminate them once and for all, TIME OF THE JUDGMENT"
I would like to think the had a several year long party initially
My idea for a better ending, with borrowed ideas from the game Homeworld:
The colonials opt to move the fleet into parking orbit in one of Jupiter's many moons. The location of the fleet, plus every scrap of knowledge that could be accumulated, gets loaded into an archive. The archive is split into multiple fragments and scattered to every corner of Earth. In order to be fully decrypted, all the fragments must be found. They are paired with a radioactive beacon, something with a half-life of hundreds of thousands of years. If the colonials' descendants want to follow the ancients' footsteps to the stars, they'll have to cooperate. Thus the Fleet sleeps, until the day it may be needed again.
BRILLIANT!
@arrival
Not really.... Orbits decay if they are low enough to skim atmosphere. Above that, nothing stops em.
MentalEdge only three of Jupiter’s moons have an atmosphere and even then they barely do
Not without 5 years worth of orbital simulations. The Jovian system's many influential fields (gravitational, atmospheric, electrical) would inflict too many variables into a passive orbit. The ships would need to have some guidance and RCS system maintained to keep them from plunging into Jupiter. And it had better be robust too. The Io/Jupiter flux tube is one nasty customer. It can fry even the most hardened modern electrical system.
This ending was a missed opportunity for the city of Atlantis to be formed, and for the complete record of all colonial history and the mistreatment of AI that lead them to this fate. We could have stood to benefit from that now.
If it was real, yeah😂
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 In this other site, Quora, every time I'd post a question about a science fiction TV or movie series, SOMEBODY upbraided me, telling me " IT'S NOT REAL ! ", etc. I finally gave up out of frustration, disgust, & the feeling of banging my head against a rock.
'What's the plan?' 'Hug the trees, hug them as tightly as possible!'
@meaturama bang the trees
I’d rather live with the Cylons than give up technology
Taking the human form cylons into consideration the basestar likely had essentials like food, toilets, etc, too.
Me too would join Cylons and travel through star together as equal
The model #6 or #8 were not bad!
Technology was the cause of the destructive cycle. Only way to break it was to abandon it
@@89five3five It wasn't just the technology it was the technology with out the wisdom to use it properly
Yes, we can start anew! A clean slate! A new beginning!
Two weeks later...
So, I have malaria and my wife and kids have pneumonia. Any chance we have any of that modern medicine left? No? Ok...
Two weeks later...
Grog, you notice all weird sky people dead?
Works both ways... Grog would probably get Astropox and pop as well =/
@@davidnelson7719 yep I watched/heard/read "War of the Worlds" also
and I would have been leading the protest for keeping basic medicines (esp. the anti-'s*). At least homeopathic on concert with the existing local remedies.
*i.e. antibiotic, antiseptic, antiviral, antimicrobial, anti diarrheal[ etc.
tgey would only need to forget about AI and Space.
the rest would be free game apart from cities apparently.
@@robertg7249 And how would they manufacture medicine, or anything for that matter? After a year or so, they would be wearing animal skins and brushing their teeth with sticks.
@@CieJe.Alexander Homeopathic in concert with the local remedies?? You mean the stuff we had in the 1800s, when people died from broken toes and diarrhea?
The writers strike will forever leave a mark on this masterpiece
Being at least 2 years after you wrote this, I don't remember. Would like you to give some more information on your view point.
The whole show nearly ended half way through the final season because of the writers strike. That would’ve been more upsetting.
I heard that Nuked Earth was written with the assumption that the show might not come back from the writer's strike and may have to serve as a series finale.
Masterpiece? the show was a travesty!
Yes, it would have been very upsetting. I'm one of those people who was 10 years old when the original series ended in 1978. I was in it to see the end of the story. I thought Moore did an excellent job of modernizing the approach.
Personally I'd rather go with the Centurions than stay on Earth and die a miserable death from hunger, disease, hostile wildlife, or cold.
My personal headcanon is that some people left with the Cylons, said they'd set the ships to sail into the sun but not, and instead colonize the other side of the planet WITH all our technology.
If I were a Centurion, I'd be done with the flesh-bags.
yeah, if i were a centurion i wouldn't want some meat-bags stinking up my basestar.
Going with the Centurions sounds better the whatever fate waited on Earth.
you're a product of people who took that chance thousands of times over, relentlessly...being intrepid has its benefits.
They didn't even bother to salvage the ships, talk about wastefulness.
They don't even have the tools to do that. Hell, those ships were literally on their last legs as it is. All of that tech requires infrastructure and tools that the RTF simply doesn't have...
Several kilo-tons of metal that could of been used for a settlement... wasted by sending into a space furnace called a star.
@@lumberluc Do the words 'don't have the ability to scrap them' have any meaning to you?
@@TheTrueAdeptNot all of them, sure but some of them were capable of landing on the planet.
@@catmani2 Given the condition of the various ships, I would doubt those that could can survive reentry without killing people.
2020: the Cylons return. I mean, why not? We've gone through almost everything else this year, why not add a robot alien invasion to the mix for some fun?
Watch what you wish for! You might just get it...😱😱😱
Maybe 2021
Who needs a Cylon invasion? We're pretty good at destroying ourselves.
And the Cylons will be 150,000 years more advanced technologically.
yo dawg we just survived a war that nearly ended our species so lets fly our last battleships into the sun...... u fkn wot?
Imagine if the UNSC in Halo just destroyed all of their technology after the human-covenant war
Yeah, let's all give up our technology and use leaves to wipe our rears.
Paul S Lol
they had more toilet paper than we have these days
I always loved the space shots of battlestar galactica. I looks like someone is just standing there with a camera. Its so unique.
Yeah those weird zoom-ins and camera adjustments. Yeah!
Much as I agree, the fact that it was presumably filmed by someone who just pounded 10 cups of coffee while detoxing off alcohol gets to me sometimes
What if Anders changed his mind and instead of flying the fleet into the sun, he put the fleet into a stable orbit around the Sun. What if we could write a story about us finding it about now and that the Cylon "GOO" had worked it's magic? What a tale would be told.
Put them in parking orbits in the asteroid field. They mostly may not be warships but would still have things to teach us about the engineering of FTL drives.
By putting the fleet in the asteroid field, they would insure that we would be a space-faring civilization before we found it.
We're good at putting guns on modes of transport. With space-based manufacturing and the resources of the asteroid belt, we might be ready in case the Cylons return.
Unless we build them ourselves.
150000 years in space the ships would be nothing but metal dust.
Regardless of the ending, it's cool to think there might be a highly advanced centurion descended machine society somewhere in the universe.
Darthhooktu could you imagine a centurion ship showing up over the skies of New York as the series ends, with Head Six turning to Head Baltar and saying “This should be interesting”
@@GabyGeorge1996 That would have been a better ending. or one of them say, that not part of the plan and then simply vanishing.
@@GabyGeorge1996 150k years of development for machine Civilisation would rather make them something along lines of.... Galctica Empire?
@@piotrd.4850 Ship of Light from the Original Series would be appropriate.
Plot twist, it was the 2's decendents who exponentially upgraded and expanded V'ger. 😉
BagoPorkRinds LOL
Yes that would be an excellent plot twist/crossover.
I like it, BSG / Enterprise cross over - where is your script ? It sounds like a real money maker $$$, toss in SG-1 from a mirror universe , along with a cameo visit by the Doctor in his Blue Box, and you got yourself a real gold mine !
Had i been a captain of one of the other ships, i would have told him, " champ, you do what u like, but my ship and equipment is staying with me.".
"Whaddya mean we out of toilet paper?? No one told me we'd have none of that here!" "No, I WONT use a pine cone!"
It was a hard scene the one where you see galactica breaking her spine, that battlestar did her job and then some and she brought them home to earth.
I believe that some of them did keep the technology and became the lost civilization of Atlantis.
nice idea
My headcanon was either that or all the people with brains joined the centurions and left the hippie wannabes to their fate.
And they took all that tech and moved to the Pegasus Galaxy.
@@richardbidinger2577 Doesn't work out. Ancients were millions of years old, way before when this would take place.
And what happened to Atlantis? It was destroyed by its own technology!!!
Hated the ending of going primitive completely idiotic! Breaking the cycle? If you forget the past you'll only repeat it again didn't anyone learn that lesson.
I mean what Lee is suggesting is EXACTLY what the Kobalians did when they got to the 12 colonies. It took them 2k years to get back to where they were when they fled the Cylons on Kobal and that was with their history intact. Lee even wants to dump that and doom humanity to 150k years of barbarism just to start building new Cylons.
What they SHOULD have done is name drop Atlantis while discussing the city layout then cut away to Lee and Bill saying their goodbyes.
Hey, go ahead and destroy the only long-standing records of any of this happening. What's the worst that could happen?
I remember an ongoing meme at a forum I used to visit where various crew members, now planetside, died of the dumbest, most easily prevented thing. One former flight deck ape gets mauled by a rhino that could have been shot, hundreds died of infections that could have been cured, etc.
Same thoughts here. This is an idiotic ending. How are these people even going to get food? Without farmers and tools or equipement? Not to mention deseases...
And,shit, the wildlife. They are deploying in Africa, SE Asia, Australia, etc. Those three alone will have wildlife and predators that will kill a lot of defenseless people that have *no knowledge of the fauna*.
"Grizzly bear? That sounds kind of cute!"
Don't forget sabertooths and all the other cute pets that were roaming our planet at that time.
All that technology gone to waste. That's what I hated about this ending.
Ripley would've never let them do something that stupid :)
150,000 years ago, plus thats 150k of dying through simple but now uncurable deseases or your own wisdom teeth, not to mention earths predators i.e. lions, snakes, sabretooths etc. All so some cylon god who started the whole mess in the first place could fulfill its plan, one that cost billions of lives and ultimately leads humanity to where it is now, divided on religion, etc. Amazing plan there Lee Adama lets leave it all behind and suffer in ignorance for thousands upon thousands of years - you complete asshole!
I was seriously torn between screaming and crying when it hit me what they were going to do. The technology they have is literally the result of tens of thousands of years of hard work by people spending their entire lives to figure out the math, chemistry, physics, etc to make everything from the ship itself to your cell phone. And you're just going to throw the results of countless hours of R&D away like yesterday's newspaper. That's not just stupid that's an insult to the entire human race.
That "technology" and the vanity is brought was the REASON they lost the colonies and had to flee across the stars to begin with. Keep it? Then what? Oh it's too much work... let's build some robots to help ease the load. Oh.... shit."
Bunch of bulshit some of those ships Got Hijacked and landed on the moon and it was count thousands of years later by NASA in the Pentagon and it kept it a secret in the fucking Pentagon got a hard-on with all of that Tech just laying in the moondust question below wait a minute that was already done with the Transformers I forgot
I might be in the minority here but I really liked the ending. After all the crap they had been true, it makes sense to me that they decided to leave everything behind and like Adama say start with a clean Slade.
it’s not the greatest, but it’s certainly not the travesty people make it out to be. everyone saying things like, “they don’t know how to survive without their stuff” are forgetting some key points. A) these are people who just spent spent the last few years fighting to survive, and before the cylons came, those on New Caprica were just living in tents anyway. that fact actually makes the proposal for a city seem stupid since why didn’t they have one on New Caprica? it was more like a campsite. which is exactly what they’ll have now.
B) they were pretty much out of raw resources and materials at that point anyway, the ships wouldn’t be able to get anymore fuel, they barely had any ammo left, they were out of friggin toothpaste if people recall, so what good would the ships do them in the long run? they were pretty close to having all their tech just be useless paperweights anyway, so ditching it wasn’t that much of a stretch at that point.
C) they knew how to survive in hostile environments- i guarantee that at least some military people went with each group. the wildlife of Earth would be nothing compared to what they’ve dealt with, plus the natives clearly know how to hunt as it is.
@@mkv2718 A) Some merit to this. The Rag Tag fleet had been through a lot in the last few years, including the absolute gut punch of the other radioactively destroyed world they'd recently visited. So the emotional state of the people was pretty vulnerable. Possibly vulnerable enough to follow Apollo's devastatingly bad plan for just long enough to wake up on the far side without the ships, libraries, medicine, hot water, power, tools, mobility, etc. needed to really survive on this world.
B) Those ships were still a treasury worthy of keeping and insane to destroy. Even crippled, they'd offer early shelter from weather and local predators. Moreover, energy for light, hot water, laundry, libraries, medical tool sterilization, and so on. Amongst those ships were basic tools that could've helped rebuild the basics for a climb back up the technology ladder.
As for raw resources, they've just arrived on our world - which for their eyes would be a plum ripe with the resources of breathable air, fresh food sources, untouched deposits of every mineral, no pollution, no radioactive fallout, pristine. They could make a go of it - if they hadn't decided to just chuck every needed tool and civilizational advantage into the Sun.
C) Yeah, they knew how to survive - by building a city. Not so much by wandering out into sabertooth tiger infested grasslands with only the clothing on their backs sans the hunter gatherer skills the locals relied upon. Those sabertooth tigers only went extinct about 10,000 years ago, so about 140,000 years in their future. Whereas agriculture and writing and even the kind of religions these people believed in aren't generally identified until a similar number of millenia later. The local animal threats did fine, the Colonials - not so much.
Fortunately the Cylons out in space may eventually be a bridge for returning humanity's lost knowledge. The Head Cylons (Angelic) could also do that, but they're playing for team Zeus, not humanity - so you can't rely on them for anything nice. Those freed Colonial Cylons might even have continued occupying and restoring Caprica and other colonial worlds, so perhaps Apollo's disastrous burning of the libraries can ultimately be reversed.
slate
While I think it's bad idea generally, I understand why they did it. They were going to go through technological and civilization regression anyway, with remains they have from their destroyed civilization, just like their ancestors did when they arrived to colonies (all of them, including 13) and there is good chance that 1-2 000 years later, they will repeat mistakes again. So by leaving technology behind, they at least made circle longer. Hopefully message is that humanity could learn from their history of war and slavery and not repeat mistakes with robots (without knowing about pre earth 2 history, purely thanks to their own history). If it will be success and they will break circle is thing for future. I would definitely leave Galactica behind (and rest of ships), but not somewhere they can find it. Basically leave records in ships about history (in many different forms, not know if they have same language and what will survive) and leave them somewhere in space or something. How long it would need to survive and if it would survive is questionable, but at this point, it would be in God's hands. If humanity needs remainder about their history, hopefully God will make them find it one way or another.
Centurions come back in hundred years to find Earth ruled by Skynet >_< LOL
Or today, Starlink!
There plan of finding the Battlestar Galactica in under rocks of 159,000 years later I wish show did that scene.
She's talking about the alternate ending
Where can I watch the alternate ending??
@@MeidoInHebun It was just raptor. And it wouldn't last 150k years anyway.
Every time one of these BSG clips comes up on my feed I'm reminded just how frakkin' good this series was. Everything has stood up to the test of time, and like a fine wine has just improved with age.
Yeah, thinking about rewatching it when I have some time like in 150 000 years or so lol
Except the ending.
@@Harold2230 Yeah, it got a bit stupid right at the end. It was like they had made their money and stopped caring.
The robots most likely decided to avoid all contact with a race fundemently unable to learn from its mistakes. To the point they wrecked their own ships and deliberately forgot all their errors for poorly considered reasons.
Heck yes. A race that intentionally cuts its own chances of survival to zero by wholesale abandonment of thousands of years of advancement is too stupid to live. Personally I would literally get on the radio and beg to sign on with the Cylons. I would literally rather be a janitor for them than stay with my 'fellow' humans who apparently all lost their freaking minds.
Claire Stark lmao imagine if they came back thousands of years later just to see us creating Cylons again and just wiped us out.
There was probably a raptor or two on that base ship.
@@JCarey1988 This couldnt have been said better
Before we knew they arrived 150,000 years ago, I always thought it would be great for Galactica to enter the Sol system, Cylons hot on their trail, and receive a hail.....from the Enterprise.
The original Galactica show ended up coming to earth in modern times. Its called Galactica 1980 and worth a watch.
Someone has done a fanfic of just that. On YT somewhere
@@relentless3169 It's worth a watch if you're REALLY drunk actually. Was way too campy for my taste. It did have a few bright spots and concepts though i admit.
There is a fan fiction called Going Native where the Enterprise D meets the Galactica by Romulan space. Good read.
Destroy your technology???? OMG!!! The last(as far as we know) bad decision in a long line of bad decisions by Lee Adama.
Oh yeah. It's a good thing dad was leading the fleet otherwise Lee would have had them dead long before they got to Earth.
Yea capt., I volunteer to stay behind and make sure those ships go into the sun...
Matthew Edwards Anders was a Hybrid by this time, so he would be stuck on Galactica anyway
Matthew Edwards FUCKING IDIOTS!
Right?!
Sure, let's not only give up space travel and all our technology.. let's destroy it forever because we won't change our minds and those cylons won't come back and hurt us.
Pass me a coconut Starbuck.
Personally, I would have commandeered one of those ships and kept travelling.
By the way; sending the fleet into the sun 93,000,000 miles away when you have a perfectly good moon 248,000 miles away to crash them into, makes no sense.
Here is a more realistic plan;
Anyone wanting to go native may do so.
Those wishing to stay in the stars may do so.
Any leftover ships will be landed on the dark side of the moon.. just in case grass skirts, disease, tribal warfare, or those cylons come back.
Matthew Edwards and what would you have the fight with? Galactica didn't have any fight left she was done. Did you see what happened on the final jump?
Matthew Burtis They had a cylon basestar... So.
One of those endings that's about as satisfying as getting kicked in the plums ... hard.
Look, I'm not that big a fan of it either, but Lee has a point - we don't think whether we SHOULD do something as soon as we find out we CAN. Real world, people. How many times did humanity nearly destroy itself because we DIDN'T think & "just did"?
@@scotcarr3390 I agree that this was the gist of the message, but my issue with it is twofold.
Firstly, it's utterly defeatist. We can apply that argument to every technological advancement that has the 'possibility' of being misused. What's the alternative? To remain cavemen? To even forgo the use of fire in case something burns down? All technology is potentially dangerous, and what is technology really? It's just knowledge with practical application. So the series is basically advocating ignorance as a solution, at which point mankind may as well put a gun to its collective head and pull the trigger, except it threw away all the guns and apparently shuns the knowledge of what the trigger will do.
Instead of regressing technology, (as the series acknowledges that it will be rebuilt eventually anyway), then surely the focus must be on dealing with it responsibly? Now the series does indicate that this is the message they wish to propagate, so why do my plums ache?
Well, they failed. The 'present day' ending shows mankind going down the same route of creating artificial life, completely unaware of the bloody history that mankind has with machines. Whatever warning the Colonials wanted to leave was utterly lost, probably because they didn't have adequate technology left to preserve it ... So, they did nothing to resolve this eternal mankind vs machine outcome that seems to repeat through the epochs of civilisation. They just delayed it at considerable personal cost, and one could argue threw away the opportunity to adequately warn future civilisations in a fit of luddite pique.
And secondly, who in their right mind would embrace this as a solution? We're going to destroy all our technology, including medical advances, and go live as hunter gatherers. We'll keep whatever medical supplies we have, but those are going to run out quick unless we set to work reproducing them, and we're not going to do that. Who's up for it? Not anyone who wants to live, presumably.
With no resupply of meds, average life expectancy would plummet. Within a generation, trivial medical issues become life-threatening, such a flu, cuts, child birth. Native predators become much bigger threats, and essentially, you roll the dice on whether any of the colonial mankind survives at all. What does survive, becomes a regressed, short lived and brutalised version of the species that because they didn't do enough to preserve the warning against using AI, is condemned to repeat the same mistakes once they advance far enough.
So, yeah ... that's my ramble.
@@Rekaert I promise I'll shut up after this response...🙃
Look, I agree myself the ending was, to put it mildly, weak & not only was bad writing, it ruined an otherwise awesome episode. "Daybreak" was a great finale. Still is. The plot was dramatic & bold. The climax was brilliant. Everything worked. And THEN the writer, director, & showrunner weinied out & took all the viewers right out of the show.
I think of myself as a writer & teacher. I know the mechanics of good storytelling. I know what works, what doesn't, what a good resolution is & what a cheap way out of writing yourself into a corner looks like. Therefore, I agree w/the author/critic who said these guys just ignored the truth about using deux ex machina as a giant get out of jail card. It's cheap, lazy, & just plain insulting to your audience.
But it was done. And they were trying to make a point which was valid. What am I going to do? Say the theme of the series is invalidated by a moment of panic by the person writing the script? Hate the entire finale because they panicked & wanted a cheap fix?
I've come to the conclusion almost every reviewer did as well - the BSG story team pulled an occasional cheat to fix a spontaneous problematic element they introduced on a whim - Starbuck's death & resurrection. The identity of the Final 5. Hell, the whole concept of their identities or purpose. Good ideas they incorporated w/out thinking of a proper solution, only to just do a mulligan 1 or 2 "just because" to resolve 'em. All cheap writing tricks to get them past a "holy ,$#!+!" thing they thought would be a cool shock plot twist that they had no idea how to resolve. Bad writing & terrible continuity that crapped on an otherwise fine show. Sometimes, though, y'gotta let something like that slide.
BSG 2000's was a great show w/major warts. More like tumors. But nothing is perfect & sometimes, even badly thought-out twists & panic resolutions of same, you just gotta love the ride. I know they're glaring goofs in an otherwise impeccable show, but I'm willing to forgive them because everything else was so damn good. So, yeah, parts of the continuity makes me cringe. I wonder where the "grown-ups" were when these caskrt nails were pushed. But, dammit, I loved the show. And I liked the somewhat happy ending, even though the actions taken strained credibility ridiculously, charitably put. I don't mind the cheap resolution because the vast majority of the show was so damned compelling.
@@scotcarr3390 Oh hey don't shut up on my behalf. I'm guiltier than most for rambling on, and I like hearing what other people thought.
Honestly I don't think we're far removed in opinion. We both recognise the short-comings and I also loved the show 'generally'. I bought it. I've seen it through a couple of times. They did amazing things with it, and elevated it from a simple space opera to a much more human approach, of how people cope in such a situation, how law and order breaks down, and how the military can be a double edged sword. Their take on suicide bombings when they were happening in the real world was bold to say the least.
I could criticise the ending all day long, but you shouldn't take that as a general dislike for the series. Nothing could be further from the truth. The sight of Galactica's back breaking is gut-wrenching for someone who has watched that ship deliver the crew through disaster after disaster. You simply don't have that response to it if you haven't developed a love of the series.
From the writing aspect, yeah they committed a cardinal sin. In the fantasy genre, a writer tries to steer clear of using magic as a problem solver for all the reasons you list. It can be pulled out of the hat when you hit a corner, it encourages lazy plot, and the audience finds it unsatisfying. Same thing with the "God did it" approach they used increasingly as BSG progressed.
But hey, it is what it is. They wrote the ending they wanted and don't owe anyone anything. Taken as a whole, the series is great. If it wasn't, people like me wouldn't be prepared to write lengthy comments about it, so they must have done something right.
Naw it was good both of you were wrong 🙂
Col. Tigh’s laugh at 1:44 always gets me
LIke a revving motormower
Not bad for a ... robot.
"Laughter.exe has experienced a malfunction and will be shut down."
Beautiful, completely satisfying ending. What so many people seem to miss is that for the four year journey we only get to see things from the point of view of the military who, while they do suffer, at least know what is going on. How terrible it must have been for the thousands of civilians living in cramped quarters constantly caught between the authorities and criminal elements. Spending months at a time doing very little but waiting. Finally making it to "earth" only to discover a burnt out shell. When they finally walked free on the plains of Africa it is difficult to imagine the relief they must have felt. Four years imprisoned between bulkheads. The idea of them never wanting to return, to make a home on this new where they can once again be the masters of their own destiny. How can anyone not see why they were happy to walk away.
Flying all that technology into the sun makes no sense. Less than 40k humans left on a new and unfamiliar world? You need all the help you can get.
Overall a terrible ending to what was a phenomenal series.
Yeah you can basically forget the last 10 episodes
"never underestimate the desire for a clean slate"....... Think about early pilgrims coming from Europe to start a life in the colonies. People coming from England to start a new chapter in the Americas actually brought technology with them. Totally the opposite of what happened here. There are heritage gold mine towns in Western Canada that actually have slate pool tables that settlers brought with them. Some people brought furnaces! There are so many ways to rewrite this to still have the potent message and not be idiotic
THEY were not bringing FTLs or weapons or the other baggage...
The fleet was done. New Caprica would have been a paradise in comparison.
Maybe they could have held on to some of it... for a while. Probably not. I would say, in theory integrating with the existing population - slowly - was the best idea.
If so why would they land so close to the Boston Bay settlement? That was already there nearly 100 years at this point.
@@richardscathouse Care to expound on that? I'm not sure I understand you
It would have been better if the choice to leave technology behind was involuntary. Perhaps we see the colonials lose what’s left of their medicine and lose the parts to produce new products. Then maybe losing the fleet would make more sense.
@@drx1xym154 Losing the tech wasn't the problem. There were other ways to do it-it's not like they had a way to maintain most of it anymore, so degradation over time is an obvious choice. Choosing to forget the past is just insane.
I also came up with a different ending. That part mentioning "giving up the creature comforts" doesn't work. Colonials would build their city. The time line would be moved 70.000 years, when Mount Toba erupted in Indonesia, in what would be one of the biggest volcanic eruptions in the history os the planet and reduced the human population to a few hundreds. Every vestige of colonials, Cylons and their technology would be erased. The whole fleet would be driven to the Sun, except Galactica. After Laura's death Adama would return to Galactica, to be Earth's sentinel. The Battlestar would be hidden in a cave on the Moon. The series would end with the "angels" walking in Times Square at night, talking about the progress of human kind and its evolution. One of them would mention the fact that our race learned about loyalty. The camera would look up, zoom through the atmosphere, the space, towards the Moon, into a crater, a cave, the old starship, the CIC. There, we would see Anders, still in control and, by his side, a skeleton with a uniform. Laying on the ground, by its side, an open book and a photo of Laura. This would be a final worthy of Battlestar Galactica.
@Matthew Caughey I really like that ending, it has a lot more emotional impact than the real one and makes more sense overall, too. I hate how wasteful the actual ending of the show was :( I understand the point Lee was making, and why people wanted a clean slate, but that was a very drastic step to take to achieve it.
@Matthew Caughey No, we are not from this planet. I grew up in West Africa and from a very young age, believed I wasn’t really from this planet. Even now, at 60 years old, I still believe this. I’ve seen and experienced out of this world things that enhance that belief.
I’m sure I’m not alone in believing this.
We do have extraterrestrial origins - many of us have forgotten our true identity - and in some of us, like me, that data is encoded in my DNA.
No, I’m neither crazy nor seeking attention - there’s some truth in all of these ancient astronaut/ ET theories.
Many of us are hybrids - human looking, but also of extraterrestrial origins.
Uhm... problem is, that after 70k years of development, this is still 5x as long as Colonials existed in Cyrranus system. They'd colonize dozens of planets by that time. To technology and cultural memes to last, they'd had to be clsoer to 15k years, think Atlantis.
"Every vestige erased" Lol, you are an idiot. We've found fossils hundreds of millions of years old (even billions for micro organisms). Pompeii, is a fine example of how well volcanic eruptions can 'erase' cities not actually buried in lava.
@@andrewstrongman305 and you're naive if you believe that any advanced technology dug up from under the ground would be revealed to the masses instead of being confiscated, hidden and studied by the militaries and governments of the world.
You probably believe that if Extraterrestrial life was ever found and confirmed that the knowledge of their existence would also be given to the masses.
The mass panic all of that would cause would make the hoarding and civil unrest we experienced from the covid pandemic look like a picnic by comparison.
Just look at all the toilet paper hoarding from the start of the pandemic and all the rest of irrational behavior. Add to that breakdown of supply chains and multiply it by a thousand
The complete breakdown of civilization on a global scale.
Humanity is too fragile to know the truth.
All of this has happened before and will happen again.
I get the feeling this is what happened after Kobol Destruction. The 12 tribes found the Cyrannus star system and they did the same thing. They saw all of the habital worlds and decided to go with a clean slate. 12 worlds for 12 Tribes. I wish their was a more extensive lore to Battlestar Galactica
A little late to this party but you are correct, and there is a tiny bit more lore if dig. I normally hate comics as a storytelling medium but there is a series that covers it so I bought it. Called "The Final Five", and it's pretty good. It explains a _ton_ of stuff, including Starbuck and how both the 12 colonies and the 13th tribe ended up where they are. The ending actually makes sense after reading these. One of the writers from the show wrote it
There are parts I never fully understood and probably never will. Time frame confuses me a lot on it all.
All these years later, and still the saddest, most poignant, most hopeful, most infuriating, stupidest ending to such a saga ever created.
I feel you! The ending is one big, soaring lovely finale while at the same time being a hot, lazy mess. It's okay to have both opinions.
Mass suicide of the majority of the population that didnt land in africa, more like.
I have all four seasons sitting on a shelf, and I've not been able to bring myself to watch them, as good as especially the first 3 seasons were, because I know I'll just have to face this ending all over again.
I like that Adama's subtle joke says that he's forgiven Baltar
What if Anders didn't fly into the sun with the fleet and went around it and kept going?
lol maximun trolling
Galactica would still be practically dead and without maintenance crews she would eventually destroy herself.
He could have theoretically put down the fleet on the side of the moon facing away from Earth. That way there would still be a vault of knowledge for humanity to tap into once they are advanced enough to get into space.
@@AnonD38 Yes, the Galactica would've been trapped in our system with her broken spine, but the other ships in the fleet weren't in the same state.
Since the war with the Cylons was effectively over, some of the fleet's constituent captains might've bucked at throwing away their ships and made a gambit to return to the Colonies. A place where we know the Cylons were expending efforts to restore in order for the human form Cylons to survive.
BTW, I do really like that idea of the Galactic 'landed' somewhere on the backside of the moon. Homeworld vibes with that idea.
@@jasonp.1195 Also they could have left warnings not to pursue sentient AI technology.
@@AnonD38 2001: Mission to Jupiter to find an object.
Oh look it's a starship.
I always liked the idea of them turning up at Earth during the 60s or 70s. Integrate themselves in mankind and see huge leaps in technology like we saw in that era.
Trek already accounted for that. Starling I think his name was.
To be honest, I was kind of hoping that they would of come across a high tech earth that welcomes them or they buried their ships on the moon.
It's called Star Trek vs Battlestar Galactica.
It's called terrible writing and a sad ending to what had been a promising show in it's first 2 seasons.
And yet you're here to complain. Move along.
I like to remind myself sometimes. ;)
Actually on a pod cast Ron Moore said that a alternative option ending would be to have present day archaeologists discover the Galactica in present day South America under those massive man made mounds that are there today.
How to fix the ending. Step 1 set it 5,000-10,000 years ago. Step 2 Stash Colonial One somewhere where mankind can find her and the history of the colonies when they’re ready. Step 3 show a series of flashes of the Colonials integrating with the various civilizations and finally step 4 show people who look like the character walking around in the present day.
Classic Baltar his first thought is getting jiggy with the local population.😂
“One million light years away” would mean what, that the Twelve Colonies were in some sort of orphan mini galaxy outside the Milky Way?
Your basing a light year off our definition. Who knows how far it was in the 12 Colonies.
1bishw WTF, light travels about the same speed no matter where.
So Caprica is in the Milky Way?
TheBaconWizard The Milky Way is more than 110000km acid and Andromeda is 2M LY away. The survivors literally came to this 🌍 earth and settled in the end. The colony ships didn’t have force fields, and they ran on a fuel that needed constant refueling. So yes, I presume their galaxy is our galaxy.
Or he was speaking hyperbolically.
imagine not starting fresh and they kept the ships and the technology and they laid out a map for a city.. imagine how powerful humans would be 150,000 years later !!!
especially if this time they didn't for some reason stagnated like they did in the 12 colonies.
Because they're idiots.
They’d be all dead by wiping themselves out much faster.
This ending doesn't makes sense. 40,000 people willing to give everything up for what and there wasn't any gaurantee that the cylons would not come back.
Keep in mind that the tech was failing. Galactica was done, crippled to the point that all she could do is limp around the solar system. And the rest of the fleet was in similar shape. i suppose they still could have used what knowledge they had to revert to an early industrial civilization, but I doubt they had the gear necessary for it. Most of that got left behind on New Caprica. So the best they could hope fro was a reversion to an iron age civilization. And the other Cylons would still be out there. BSG doesn't have magic Star Trek style sensors. Without a developed city visible from orbit, any Cylon ships might jump in, take a look around, even land. But finding a few dozen humans living a nomadic lifestyle would be next to impossible for them. Lee's plan was the best shot they had at survival.
Even in its failing state the Galactica would be suited as raw material for structures. Taking its life support systems for survival, it's stores of weapons ammunition could be converted into explosives for mining operations. The reactors for power, it's dismantled structure for shelter.
It's not useful as a ship anymore, but it could endure as a home for humanity for centuries to come if converted into a city.
The other ships, being newer and in better shape, could be used as a safeguard against natural disaster that could happen, sensors to detect possible asteroid impacts and act as safe refuge from major volcanic eruptions or other extinction level events.
It makes no sense to throw away that safety net to random chances of disaster when you are trying to ensure survival.
Their tech was failing for being capable of extrasolar flight and combat. It would have still been a tremendous bootstrap to eventually get BACK to a civilization that can reach for the stars. To throw that all away to play "Little Tent on the Prairie" is absolutely insane.
What doesn't make sense is giving up ALL technology. While I could see abandoning their ships (maybe on the moon for their descendants to come back for) in case the Cyclons came back the idea that you'd entirely give up 23rd century technology to go back to stone tools is so stupid I literally don't have words for it.
If I had been stuck in my house for three years, yes I would want to spend a day outside, but I am not about to destroy the television and burn down the house with my fridge. That was a WTF ending. This return to primitive living does not appeal to me. I would be like Evil from Time Bandits when he laments how God took time to create so many diffent species of animals. "8 O'CLOCK DAY 1!" th-cam.com/video/To5wKh9Ypec/w-d-xo.html
Sam should have taken the fleet to the other side of the sun and put it in the same orbit of the earth and put the ship's systems to sleep . and they could have started a 2018 show of us finding the sleeping fleet of ships on the other side of our planets orbit, back engineer the ships and.............................................
David Olver My idea would be next moon landing would find a crashed Galatica near the landing area. People would start to access the ship but there are sleeping Cylons not meant to be awakened. Title would be Galatica: Revelations.
Space is actually quite hars.. micro meteor and radiation in 150K years would certainly fried those ships without some maintenance.. read about what awaits to Elon Musk Roadster wandering space
My ending: Galactica and the fleet arrives in orbit around earth, suddenly multiple missile launches are detected from earth, the fleet flees once again flees into deep space settling on a system not far from earth. Final shot: An advisor talks to a man sitting down facing away, telling him the unknown objects in orbit are gone, the chair turns revealing a Cavil model who simply nods, shot zooms out and reveals it to be the oval office.
"Filthy... Xenos.
So they've come at last."
That's Olmos's ending, too:
"I personally - this is not [from] any of the writers, but my thing - I wanted to come into [the present day], find Earth, cruise on top of it, see it for what it is, and as we're coming down to it, we're blown up, we're nuked. And then [someone says to] the President of the United States, which is Bush, "They've been taken care of. Thank God you saved the world again." And you turn, and you see who told him that, and it's one of the Cylons."
@@GeneralGrievous-1138Damn. He wanted the ending to be that every character we know died? That's dark
@@jaycievictory8461 well, it was a joke on his part haha
That's like burning down your house and living in your backyard in a sleeping bag with nothing more than a spoon to live with while a big dog roams the neighbourhood. Pretty trusting.
Watching the series unfold, as much as I loved it, I had the increasing sense that the writers were tying themselves into a knot (or backing themselves into a corner, or whatever other metaphor you wish to use). I felt there was no way they could end this convincingly, but I watched hoping to be proven wrong, since I really did like so much of it. Alas, as far as I'm concerned, I was actually proven right. The ending is distinctly unconvincing and anti-climactic.
Yup season 4 was halfway through becoming more and more illogical and stupid. To be fair though its kinda difficult to end the series properly.
Part of me wondered about Option B. What is Option B you ask? That is where the Cyclons head back to the home world (either theirs or the humans). Because either one or two things are true. Either (a), the Cyclons completely left their homeworld when they attacked the 12 colonies thus it is ready for them to return to. Or (b) there are still Cyclons and humans living on the Cyclon homeworld and the human 12 colonies and they can try to find a way to mingle right in.
Either way, it seems like the Cyclons have a solution to the problem that the humans may not necessarily have.
@@superdave8248 That's assuming the Cyclons had a home world, I always got the notion they were just spacefaring
The Cylon Colony that was destroyed in the finale I believe was their “home world”.
One of the comics series untied a lot of it for me. Enough for it to make sense at least. In fact, after reading those I really like _some_ parts of the ending. The whole let's abandon all of our technology really pisses me off to this day though
I would have liked to see them arrive at modern Earth and then watch in horror as the nation's go to war over their technology
This version of the show was good until they landed on that one planet where they were trapped for a year. That sucked. Then the writers started taking long hiatuses between seasons and lost their magic. But the first season was good.
The mini series and the 1st season was brilliant, it was all pretty much down hill from there because as admitted by the writers, they haven't plan for a multi season long arc out, so they had not clue what the end of the story was going to be or how to get there.
Writers strike.
I like the 1970's era Canadian Armed Forces surplus inflatable MUST tents!
Well, the show was shot in Vancouver...
This goes a way to explaining the Neandarthal skull in the Berlin museum that has a .308 kill hole in it...
The ending was so beautiful they also aired the finale of StarGate Atlantis that night, I wept from the pure SciFi Beauty I beheld that night
As weird and daft as the ending of Battlestar Galactica was, with the woolly religious nonsense and bizarre Space-Amish decision to abandon and forsake effectively all technology, just be grateful this was written by a reluctant Catholic based on the work of a Mormon and not a Scientologist. Imagine Battlestar Galactica in the vein of Battlefield Earth. I will forever consider it a bullet dodged.
Yes. Yes it was that bad. The highlight of the movie was seeing the ending credits come up.
The movie was terrible...
While it could indeed been worse than it was that's still no excuse for it sucking so bad.
AllaMortify i can maybe understand saying fuck the ships, 6 years solid of being trapped aboard crapped and rapidly breaking down vessels is probably enough to make anyone want rid of them, or at least enough of a majority of people to win a vote on the idea.
The oart i dont get is ditching everything else, medicine, guns and other advanced supplies would be such a massive help to making a new start it honestly makes no sense for them to abandon it
It would be a completely believable response to say "I've been trapped on this beat up ship for years, I want OFF!" because humans don't like being confined. But to throw away all the technology that came with them from your microwave to vaccinations?! That does not ensure your survival in any way. In fact it pretty much dooms you right there.
I realized after watching this episode about 20 times over the last 15 years, that there are five Centurions in this brief clip of the ones that were given their freedom. Thinking they must have evolved into the final five.
"...let’s start anew."
Thus ends the stupidest line of dialog in this entire series.
And you...like many others missed the entire point of the show!!!
@@kharilane1340 We did not miss it, we just think it's incredibly hamfisted and stupid.
Bittersweet, painful, and equally beautiful at the same time.
In the 24th Century the Cylons return, as the Borg.
I don't even want to give up my phone today.. ya think I'm going to give up my frakking toaster!!??
I was about to start a rewatch and then youtube suggested this video and now I'm not so sure...
Adama said this world is one million light years away from where they started. The Milky Way Galaxy is only about 200,000 light years across. They would have had to have come from somewhere between here and the Andromeda galaxy (2.5 million light years away), which is silly.
All this has happened before and shall happen again. True to life.
There are probably other survivors back on the original colonies that continued to advance after the cylons there were destroyed.
Nuked wastelands
They could have done a brilliant call back to the original series and had the Colonials raise great cities like Atlantis but no, instead no one will remember your struggle and there were humans here already so nothing mattered in the end.
Best remake of show, EVER.
3:09 Lee Adama is such an idiot.
5:04 Oh thank you so much! Regards, the Borg
So if they traveled 1 million light years then they came from another galaxy then. Not Andromeda since it's 2.5 million ly away, but maybe one of the closer smaller ones?
Probably just a figure of speech
Accept that the year in 'light year' as we use it is an Earth year. The Colonies certainly have 12 completely different years but being colonies of Kobal they probably use a Kobalian year as the standard time base for the term 'light year'. If the planet Kobal takes 2.5 times longer than Earth to orbit it's sun, than one Kobalian 'light year' is 2.5 Earthean 'light years' while being the exact same amount of physical distance. Hence very likely the Colonial human's and their civilization are from what we call The Andromeda Galaxy tho other nearby galaxies may also be their origin. But the farther away their galaxy is the greater the distance that has to be compressed into Adama's statement of 'over 1 million light years away' (meaning less than 1.5) which means the Kobalian year on which it's based become longer and longer.
There is no closer galaxy than Andromeda. Given that jumping from one point to another required specific coordinates, how does one gain the proper coordinates across the immense intergalactic void into the orbit of a specific planet? Particularly when any visual reference would be over a million years out of date. Yes, I know. Starbuck had a vision that provided such coordinates. Can the ship even jump that far, as they had never entered the void prior to arriving at Earth? And if it could, why not escape to a nearby galaxy in the first place?
The Large and Small Magellanic Clouds, visible in the southern hemisphere, are actually dwarf galaxies that orbit the Milky Way.
Thank you - and they are about 170 LY away.
Love the series Hated this ending to it. Completely unrealistic
I hope they retconning it in the new series.
fanfiction:
General Jonathan "Jack" O'Neill, Admiral Adama, Admiral Adama, General O'Neill.
"We'll land civilians...at various points..." - drops his finger in the middle of Western Australia, LOL.
Wow. That is...the most insane, stupid idea i could ever think of. its one thing if they were stranded and helpless, but they literally are starting from ground 0.
And that would be fine if not for the fact we know the history of the human race leading up to now and know that it only made things worse.
Heres an idea guys; instead of starting with some technology on 12 planets, lets instead pool our entire civilization onto one planet with the gambit that starting over and eventually raping the planets resources AGAIN as we inevitably industrialize (see; failure to efficiently teach and document our past) will somehow garner different results and hope that - in the process - we don't go extinct from inefficient usage. Ah yes, I can't wait to watch coal be the leading cause of our fucked up co2 levels
quoting their reasoning, "if there's one thing we should've learned it's that our brains have always outraced our hearts, our science charges ahead, our souls lagged behind"
which explains why Yoda has a heart of gold and lives quite happily in a swamp
3 years later comment. Yes you get it too. The whole point of the end is that the original colonies:human and cylons were not meant to survive as own civilization, but just stay and live longe enough to interact and past on DNA and some skills like language and basic knowledge but without advanced technological knowledge, to the primitive humans of the new earth and then leave them to evolve on their own by dying out eventually. So yes a clean slate and a suicide mission of their entire human colonial civilization, just leaving the seed for development of the humans of earth in order to break the cycle of violence and destruction once and for all, ackording to the colonial humans and cylons by removing themselves from the equation.
What if in the next Battlestar Galactica reboot, the Cylon Basestar the Centurions have shows up again.
All this has happened before; and all of it will happen again.
The name of the video is just a 10 second portion of this 6 minute clip. Gotta love official channel uploads of tv shows.
I can understand the idea of giving up the tech and the weapons, to go back to a simpler way of life. But to give up knowledge and learning, give up mathematics and chemistry and metallurgy? These are the very things modern humans love to do, and they would never give it up on a personal level. There would be thousands of colonials pushing back, setting up schools and educating their kids.
Seems odd not to just land the ships on the far side of the Moon. Not visible from Earth and by the time someone finds them they will be advanced enough to understand them.
JohnJ469 better to leave them visible from earth imho, so as soon as they developed good enough telescopes someone will eventually look at the Moon and say " hey what the heck are those?" And will be aware of their existence and wonder what they are and want to go investigate.
Good point. Nearside or Farside have the same result. I always think of "The Sentinel" by Arthur C Clarke and wonder if there is something we just haven't seen yet.....
future-lives.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TheSentinel.pdf
who says they're not there right now..?
Elon'll find them
Horrible finale to an absolutely incredible series! 😥
Less than 50,000 humans left and the call is to trash any technology that might help themselves survive on a planet that they know nothing about??
Yeeaaa..... not damn likely. Giving up absolutely everything to go out and hug trees together sounds like suicide to me.
As the final beginnings of humanity began its slow march to the future, the cylons began their inevitable march to the furthest reaches of the galaxy and the inevitable evolution and creation of the Borg!
One of the most disappointing endings in sci-fi history. At least for me.
Absolutely. I was actually embarrassed.
Still better than Galactica 1980....
what garbage. Without tech, life is hard, short and constantly looking for food. There is a reason why a healthy human can live for 1 month without food but only 2 days without water.
Also farming is alot more difficult without machines and farm animals.
Nick L I wouldent be suprised if they got wiped by disease.
Smaller groups would not have it so hard actually.
20-50 people can accomplish a lot.
James Wardrop Not with absoultly nothing and no prior survival experience.. fifty people can just as easliy die like the thousands who die from disease.
Going back just 2 centuries in technology IRL would royally suck and mean a lot of children would die due to lack of vaccines. Going back basically ten thousand years for a small group inexperienced at wilderness survival is nothing less than a suicide pact.
And with tech is "oh shit they're invading and killing by the billions, let's go get chased across the universe."