Forza Motorsport on Xbox Series X/S: The Digital Foundry Tech Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Six years in development, Turn 10 re-emerges with its most advanced Forza Motorsport yet, designed exclusively for current-gen consoles and modern PC. Our coverage today concentrates on the console experience, examining the upgrades in depth, the pros and cons of 'on track' ray tracing along with recommendations on the best graphics modes to use - and how the game compares between Series X and Series S consoles.
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00:00 Overview
00:47 Forza Motorsport 7 comparison
06:41 What’s up with reflections?
09:47 Modes and image quality
13:20 Performance
15:33 Gameplay and conclusion - เกม
Just a tiny bit of clarification. The crowds are less dense when driving in practice session compared to the actual race session. Just like in real life more people will come to the actual race and skip the practice.
It looks really realistic. But this definitely shows the visual beauty limit of realism. People respond much better to hyperrealism with exaggerated details rather than a true to life look.
That's kinda a personal preference issue. That's not a universal take. Many people prefer realism.
GT7 looks better imo, more real and appealing to me
@@NoradNoxtusit look more pleasant to eyes, but it looks way more like a videogame then forza. Especially at night.
Reality also not every time looks pleasant
@@NoradNoxtus That's exactly what the comment is refering to... GT7 doesn't look more realistic at all, but like a videogame with instense colours you won't find IRL but in edited pics and videos. Try to find a car IRLwith shadowed borders as in GT7...
@@NoradNoxtus Way too colorful to look "realistic".
What Turn 10 was able to do with the Xbox One hardware was nothing short of amazing. Even with all of the sacrifices, the game still looks superb six years later.
I was actually comparing FM7 a little over a year ago on my oled TV running on a PC at native 4K maxed out, it looked a bit better than GT7 on my PS5.
Looking forward to checking this one out when it comes out for sure.
@@TerraWare 🤡
That's not explaining it well enough, sure FM7 looks terrible compared to FM8/Forza Motorsport, but the fact that Turn 10 managed to get FM7 run at native 1080p 60FPS WITH MSAA on the OG Xbox One is nothing short of amazing, same with The Coalition's Gears 4 and 5. That console generation had very underpowered CPUs, yet these two studios did it, somehow.
Yep and they said that was only using 70% of the One X's power.
@@outdoorsjoeUh. Ok
I'd love to see a comparison between GT7 and Forza now that both are out on their current gen consoles. Similar to how it was done with GT Sport and FM7 a few years back. Would love to see the video in HDR again as usual because that looked incredible
The HDR is probably sexy as hell in this game. My buddy just got his series X so I will be going to see for myself 😂.
John already said he’s going to make one (in November)!
there is one on the ign channel
@MicheleKalina704 what? There is a comparsion Video on ign for Gt7 and forza
@MicheleKalina704Unsurprising someone from IGN is spewing fanboy BS
Having reserved my judgment until I actually played the game… I gotta say it’s pretty incredible. I’m having a fantastic time. The tracks are pretty immersive as well.
You're one in a million then. I cannot agree
Lol on a controller I bet
One in a million? Dont be so dramatic. A lot of people like the game, get off your high horse@@theone2be33
RTAO seems to dramatically improve visuals on the game. Good to see them using it.
that's because it seems like instead of RTAO the other option is no AO at all.
@Zeryth960
Like how games with RT Shadows tend to have absolutely obysmal shadows unless you use RT shadows compared to one's that don't have RT as an option.
@@originalityisdead.9513 seems like it yeah, or RT reflections vs no reflections or just cubemaps.
RTAO is Ray tracing?
It's too expensive, tho.
I’ve also noticed that ray traced car reflections depend on what paint job you’re using. When my Supra was blue, other cars reflected in its paint realistically. But when I chromed it out, it literally didn’t show other cars reflected at all. Even when I was right next to another vehicle, the only reflection was the cube map reflection of the environment.
They definitely need to give the option for full RT reflections in the PC version
The main takeaway is that no racing game will EVER be able to compete with Gran Turismo…. The power of PS5 tech is just too complex yet streamlined to replicate.
@@hdhdhhehe6709 What in the hell are you talking about?
@@WLLM1 sorry man. Your chose the losing side. Forza will always be inferior
@@hdhdhhehe6709 What the hell are you gabbing about?
@@willuigi64 Your tombstone: “here lies Xbot, never got to play Gran Turismo!”
I'm sure it looks a lot better in hdr, but the color grading here is just a tad flat. I find this to look a lot better than FM7. Materials, image stability, features, but the drop in clarity to fix up specular and instability with TAA rather than MSAA is not a strict upgrade. It makes a lot of sense seeing as basically this game's entire graphical goal was to improve materials.
Go back and check out the reveal trailer. This looks NOTHING like what we were shown back there. A massive downgrade, not only in lighting but straight up missing or heavily downgraded world assets.
GT7 using MSAA or TAA?
Great work. I really enjoyed the detailed comparison with Forza 7 as it really showcases what's actually changed generation to generation.
Can't wait for the comparison to GT7 💟🌌☮️
I feel like there was a bigger difference between FM2, 3 and 4 just on Xbox 360, than between 7 and "8". Diminishing returns are definitely hitting hard.
I'm still excited to play, I'm definitely hungry for a track racing game. But just looking at the previews, I'm not really seeing a "next-gen" game six years in the making.
@THU31 It's more about physics for me. I can't wait to try them out. Yes, they have more GPU grunt to work with in order to make it look a little more pretty, but they are really trying to take advantage of the improved CPUs.
@@THU31Same here, but at least the foliage looks better🤔🤣🤣
@@THU31because the graphical leap between Xbox 360 to Xbox One was very noticeable compared to the graphical standard we have now. That’s why game companies focus more on Frame Rate and Ray Tracing instead of Ultra Real graphics.
TAA makes this game look overly soft, like a very very thin layer of clear mud, its distracting imo.
Yeah, I still can't believe they dropped MSAA for this. It's ridiculous
So true. And the lower the native resolution the worse it gets with TAA.
So its Performance Mode on Series X than...
@@AlexanTheManNeed performance for RT features.
Bad tradeoff considering the game not only looks washed out overall, but blurry and ghosty on top of that
tbh the tarmac texture and the ground next to the track looks really low res compared to FM7, what is going on there texture wise? its quite blurry
Maybe I'm just blind, but sometimes I think that the predecessor looks better or that the graphical leap isn't that big
I was thinking the same thing! The track textures seem to look better to my eye in FM7 and a good number of the cars too. I o love the new vegetation and lighting enhancements but I was really expecting more along the lines of their 2022 preview footage. I was thinking of getting on Xbox but might get on pc to try to get more out of it visually
I agree.. and apparently on PC the aliasing is terrible compared to horizon 5 and the mirrors are really low Res!
And is it me but I have had enough of this realism crap! It's a game I like saturated colours and contrast and to be able to see! I mean I play iracing and that game looks like crap in general but it's the feeling and gameplay that matters! Ray tracing is just the latest buzz word and it's just pointless.. like 3D TVs back in the day! At the end of the day if it handles like FM7 I'll be uninstalling it after 10 mins! Time will tell
You are right, you are blind
Its the TAA, destroys sharpness.
I think at that point is preference due to art style than anything else
New game looks better overall but I prefer some of the cheats being used in FM7 like crowds. I think this game shows some of those tricks had value for the final result to casual observers.
At least it's stable 60 fps. A lot of games go crazy w/ trade offs but still have a poor framerate. Great effort!!!
i agree. fuller crowds 2d crowds look better than sparse 3D crowds. you can't even tell they're 2D or 3D when moving, anyway!
I don't understand why they wasted resources on the 3D crowds?
It doesn't make sense and comes with a hit to crowds density, F7 looks much better.
Was it really that important?
Forza 6 got raked for its crowd billboards. We've probably all forgotten about that but I bet Turn 10 hasn't.
@@johnmarstall by dumb fanboys online lol
@johnmarstall don't forget the trees. It's a shame when the average a-hole on the internet has the same sense of entitlement that was once only reserved for royalty in centuries past.
Performance RT mode in heavy rain looks spectacular
I agree with Oliver on almost all the improvements in a technical perspective... but in terms of art, colors, contrast - it looks like a significant step back from the prior games. It has that hazy look with elevated blacks. Not a fan of it. To be clear, a lot of times I preffered the visuals of FM 7 in this footage. Maybe because of youtube compression and "watching it, not playing it" plays a role here but either way contrast definitely seems off !
It looks way off, you're not alone
Practically, this Forza has a greater dynamic range in terms of image (you can see more details in the lights and shadows), and I've noticed that the desaturation effect occurs on some tracks. This can be easily fixed or it might be an intentional artistic choice.
That's due to performance RT. Play in performance only
He played the game with a bug that affected the colour gamut. I thought DF would have come out and admitted their mistake by now.
i guess it's the compression, but overall the colors are more realistic. Depends on that you are looking to into a game
Its really strange that the cockpit camera has no motion blur enabled. It looks really odd when Switching to it while all other views use a high quality per object motion blur. Any known reasons for that?
How about performance.
Yeah, it's either a bug or a very bad design decision. Should be there.
@@Shaki123 Sometimes cockpit view is slightly easier to render though because you are displaying less of the car and environment than chase cam.
@@Chasm9 I assume its a bad design decision because Forza 6 and 7 had the same Problem. And it never was explained why. It's just Something which bothers my eyes. Because Performance wise it makes no sense. The PC version has the same problem. In Horizon it works just fine.
Microsoft needs to care more about HDR implementation. The 2 heaviest hitters for Xbox this year exhibit grey blacks and terrible color gamut and HDR. That's unacceptable.
Halo did as well. Very weird
@christiansonesson8292 lol I'm not the biggest Halo guy to begin with, but man, that game was forgettable.
Unpopular opinion: I would take superior baked lighting over dynamic time progression any day. Look at what Mirror's Edge was able to achieve with its lighting model a decade and a half ago. Racing games could look absolutely unreal if that technique was applied to modern games.
There's a reason why films use controlled lighting... RT has not made gaming any better, if anything, has worsen the performance.
Thats what Im saying, even in movies they dont even use natural light so why are we so obsessed with it.@@athena9029
I don't know, I would agree with every other game, but GT7 imo nailed its Dynamic ToD lighting model... It looks photorealistic. Forza, and all other games, not so much.
RT absolutely has its place, but using it as a fix-all solution is the wrong way to go about it, and it’s yet another automated process that takes away from handcrafted artistry and makes every product look similar to each other.
forza 7 looks better and it has x8 MSAA
What was said in the preview: track textures and foliage textures are a lot lower resolution than in Forza 7.
In this video, it is again visible and so obvious, but suddenly is not mentioned anymore.
The textures look horrible and flat.
As also said in this video: texture filtering is reduced in quality over Forza 7.
What was mentioned in the preview video, than the anti-aliasing has been changed to TXAA, while it was MSAA in Forza 7, is not mentioned here, but is still visible.
Why was this not mentioned in this video???
What I conclude from both videos, is that global illumination is vastly improved, that trees look better (although they still aren't 3D while in the previous video was claimed to be 3D and Turn 10 also claims that they are now 3D), and that RT is being used but at a much lower way than Turn 10 claimed it was in their own videos.
So on one hand, they have improved the visuals, while on the other hand they have lowered the visual quality.
I'm not impressed by the whole. Remember that this is exclusive for Xbox series X, S and PC.
Turn 10 is a first party dev for MS.
Forza Horizon 5 is much more impressive than this Forza Motorsport considering it's completely open world.
This game was anounced as THE showcase for Xbox series X and S. It is far from it.
Turn 10 can do better than this, but were they pushed by MS to release it because it has taken since the anouncement and showcase for Xbox Series X until now, being 4 years ago?
If this was really more than 4 years in development, why is it not a graphical showcase as promised?
Or could it be that it wasn't actually being developed for more than 4 years as they first developed Forza horizon 5?
Something isn't right here. I expect that there will be graphical updates in the future and much more optimisation.
This is not worth 80 Euro's in this state. This is not the game that was promised. Just look at the first gameplay anouncement and look how much better it looked then.
You mention the "crowd is less dense." I'm guessing you took those pictures during a Free Race. The game dynamically changes crowd density depending on the race type. There are fewer people at Practice than the race for instance. If you were racing on Career or a full race, those stands would have been full.
I think one this is clear, the age of more and more polygons is officially over. It’s safe to assume the car on the right has significantly more polygons and yet the difference between the two cars to the human eye is not that big. This is now the era of lighting and textures.
The lack of spectators is really noticeable and in some shots the last Forza 7 looks better.
Dude look at damn track. Flat no textures
I thought the same for quite a number of those comparison shots, thought 7 looked better.
I keep hearing a lot of praise for this game but I'm underwhelmed, plus FH5 has been bricked for over 3 weeks now since the last update, so not exactly pulling me in with that either.
Maybe I am totally mad, but I swear heavily modded Assetto Corsa can often look better than either F7, F8 or GT7.
@@LewisHamiltonMSPRglad to see Im not the only one not able to play fh5 anymore
@@IamJay02 It seems FH5 only works on the C: drive now and if it was already there, you have to reinstall all of it to make it work.
I'm not going to uninstall other games nor spend hours shifting them around different drives because they F'd up. Assetto corsa is taking up nearly 800Gb on my C: drive so I don't have any room.
Nearly a month now with error 0x0 at launch.
7 looks more cartooney than realistic at times with the colors. Motorsport tops it in all areas
That January preview looked seemingly far better than the final product wth
Yeah. Looks like they had to dial the game way back because of the Series S.
@@outdoorsjoenot because of series s. Because of console hardware I guess
Sony has a console parity Claus contract. Because they're scared of competition with Microsoft.
You know the weaker opponent always has to go for the lags.
They were showcasing full rt on cars and now it's only self reflection just like in Forza Horizon 5 lol, something definitively went wrong. The fact that it didn't make the cut to PC is scummy
@@Packin-Heat Oi. Those banger rt reflections are still supported by the engine though. How can it be because of series s
5:20, worth mentioning Gran turismo started every car model from scratch for GT Sport (with future gens in mind) while Forza is still using some car models which are 18 years old! Take a look at the R32 Skyline and its really lacking detail and even the shape is wrong. The new Forza models for this game do look good though, shame they didn't scrap more of these older model for a re-scan.
Because they don't care. It's in gamepass anyway, so they don't feel the need to care and push limits.
Great video and I just want to applaud that Oliver always gives his personal recommendation on which mode to choose, love it!
There’s a number of times where if you took the labels off, I might mistakenly mark 7 as the new game. 😬 looks great on PC, but not near as good on console as we were led to believe it would be
Wouldnt a 1080p@30fps RT mode on XSS be possible though?
I feel we're at the point where developers should just release absolute garbage pre-view builds, as well as graphical options that make the game unplayable.
Most conversations around game quality seem to focus on a complete lack of understanding about how real word limitations means you can't max out visuals, include every modern technology, and still have a game run at a reasonable frame rate. People simply see a 60 or even 120 fps experience with full real time path tracing as this completely achievable thing the developer choose not to deliver for some reason.
Letting people tank their experience to a unplayable slid-show by including options that hardware simply can't support might be the only way forward, as you see this problem a lot less among PC gamers.
Mind you, GT7, which offers extremely limited Ray-tracing and only does so at 30fps didn't see anywhere near the negative response FM7 is getting for having more ray-tracing at a higher frame rate, so maybe the real problem is actually even more simple ...
I think a lot of people also don't realize that GT 7 is running a game with a physics engine that runs on last gen PS4 with a 1.6Ghz Jaguar CPU. Yet many don't want to acknowledge the increase in physics fidelity FM 2023 is bringing, and I'm sure it is not a light tax on the CPU. Couple that with all the new visuals they are brining, and I'm content with what I see from FM 2023, I'll reseve final judgement after I play the game.
The fact that GT 7 gets a pass in certain areas from the enthusiastic Sony masses, yet this game is being reviewed via a microscope is kind of hilarious. IMO, and this is coming from a GT fan. The IGN comparison the put up a few hours ago, IMO mind you, shows how more realistic FM 2023 looks. GT 7 is gorgeous, but I think, need to stress that so the Sony fanbase doesn't get bent out of shape, seems more realistic.
Dynamic 1080p and no rt, i have an s and this just looks a bit too blurry for my console. Based on the trailers i hoped they could at least do rt shadows on the s and a 1440p 60 mode.
It’s a $299 console. Be happy it even plays the game.
what i dont really like is that wash out look of the game on day time i 100% prefered the saturation and contrast it had on motorsport 7
Is it just me or does Forza 7 look better in the first comparisons? The new Forza looks a bit blurry and washed out, also see the aliasing on the barrier still. This appears closer to something I'd expect from the Series S in terms of clarity and visuals.
theres some aliasing issues as discussed which normally fixed over time, but other than that its miles better, 7 didnt even have decent lighting, it just like playing a game with max contrast ratio
To be honest without title signs I couldn't tell which one is the newer when you show them side by side. 6 years of graphics improvement and the differences are minor.
They are significant, but you need to watch on a 4k screen and not your phone.
Content Manager for Assetto Corsa has a module called Extra FX, in which it has the option to replace the usual way the game does reflections on cars (cube maps, updated in real-time. You can set at what frequency) with so-called "local reflections (SSLR)". This also makes other cars show up in reflections on your car. Is it possible Forza isn't using ray tracing at all but instead whatever this Assetto Corsa mod uses? - I ask, because I would think if the rays are being shot around anyway, what's the benefit of making parts of cars reflect with cubemaps instead and only show ray traced reflections where they're "most reflective"? And what does that mean anyway? Do cars with less reflective paint not use ray tracing where shinier cars would?
Also, it's weird to me that time of day changes appear scripted and don't follow a linearly moving sun. If shadows are in real-time and the AO is ray traced in real-time, why not have the sun move in real-time and have that determine the level's lighting? What's going on there? Again, Assetto Corsa with Content Manager and SOL has a sun that moves astronomically correctly. To the point that days in winter are shorter than days in summer. I would have thought with Forza specifically built to handle everything in real-time, it would follow that it simulates the sun in real-time too. Otherwise, if we're going to blend from one "state" to the next, why bother rendering AO in real-time?
I would love to see a bit of a deeper dive on this.
12:07 IQ of FM7 looks about 4x clearer/higher res.
I kinda prefer the 7 looks, despite of less complex geometry and not so advanced lighting. It looks bright, shiny, and lively, and the latest one is just flat and boring to my eye.
7 was my least favourite, it didn't look as lively to my eyes as anything from Motorsport 3 onwards and everything felt either exaggerated or underdone
Maybe try FM5/6 instead. Clear, sharp visuals. No realistic nonsense.
Yeah those road and grass textures surely took a hit. I wonder if they have any moving detailed grass like they have in GT7.
I didn't enjoy 7, but the visuals weren't the problem. However, I'm concerned how frequently I prefer how 7 looks in comparison. The new reflections are distractingly low res.
No it doesn't. It's time of day dude. Jesus.
There are a few differences for sure but I see much greater leap compared with Lamborghini 64.
About the comparison between FM and GT7...
An interesting detail is that it's much easier to calibrate your TV to make FM more visually impactful than GT7 more realistic (if that is what you want).
The same logic applies to photography. Photographers seek photos in the "RAW" format, which has minimal post-processing and appears quite washed out. This way, you can edit and achieve the ideal result. However, have you ever tried editing a photo that has already undergone smartphone post-processing? The colors are highly saturated, and the contrast is high. It becomes much more challenging to make the photo more realistic-or ideal for you-in this way.
(RAW photos have various advantages besides being less "contrasty." I only addressed this point due to the similarity.)
In the case of Forza, I would simply reduce the gamma and shadow detail a bit, and it would be perfect.
in real racing the sequence goes as follows.
Practice, qualifying, then race.
you should get a good bonus for qualifying high. is seems like the top 3 or 4 AI cars really pull away early race.
so I can see a lot of players choosing a 6th place, 7, and 8th place starting spot. Qualifying would do the same thing as choosing a start spot. the players skill level should be the main focus.
Just me or does Forza 7 look better at 1:35? The lighting and crepuscular rays poking through the foliage look insanely good. FM just looks well lit but flat. Time of day thing perhaps?
That's the thing, implement real-time time of day..but why? Long duration racing where huge swings in time of day account for a small amount of the actual races you'll take part in and the trade off is a mostly worse looking end presentation. Saddens me
I’ll be playing this day one tomorrow thanks to early access and am super hyped for this. But I’m disappointed about no qualifying for AI races, which I could have swore was promised previously, and the lack of RT GI on the PC version. I do like that there is a practice session before each race. Which will help to simulate the race weekend feel.
I’ve been playing all morning already , change Region to New Zealand ! Very disappointed in the graphics though, baited us with the preview trailer , some parts look like 360 graphics 😅
How can they say gamepass day one…and it not be gamepass day one…crazy
@@illestcatnnebraska7331 bruh...launch day is October 10. But if you purchased the $100 edition you get 5 day early access. It is on gamepass on day 1...
@@illestcatnnebraska7331 Because day 1 = Oct 10. That's when the game is officially out. If you want to play up to 5 days early, you need to buy the premium edition. Gamepass is the standard edition, which even if you buy it, still releases Oct 10.
@@illestcatnnebraska7331it's day -3 if you pay enough money for it. I'll wait for Gamepass tho. I'm a racing fan but not so much when it comes to sims.
4:23 Lower res asphalt textures??? Did Turn10 never heard of anisotropic filtering?!
Yea, nice to see it side by side with Forza 7, a game I played the hell out of, got gold on every track. I do plan on the same on this one. It looks good, and I can't wait to get my hands on it..
12:00 that TAA butchering..... like, sure image stability is better, but it blurs the image so badly I got the idea the game went to 480p
Looking forward to Forza motorsport vs Gran Turismo PS5 DF video!
facts forxa 7 held up to GT so we will c whos king
@@mattmccaughen7371 and many things in the new forxa look worse than forxa 7.
@@robertlawrence9000false
I can see the obvious lighting upgrades....but other than that...many of these comparisons could have swapped and you wouldnt even know. Like at 6:16 the changes are just changes...not an upgrade/downgrade. This is not to put a negative spin on the new release, just really a testament to how far they pushed the last Forza visuals on the hardware it used.
How To Change Field Of View In Forza Motorsport
First off, head to settings (either via the main menu or in-game)
Head right to 'Gameplay & HUD'
Scroll down to the 'Camera' section
All of your FOV options are laid out here. For PC & Console.
I don't know .. . . aside from the foliage, I find the older game looking vastly superior... I do not understand why there are so little people thinking the same (if any)
yeah besides the interior and some technical aspects, old one visually looks way better.
6 years of improvement and still FM7 looks better sometimes on last gen...
you all need glasses😂
I agree but I’m also watching this vertically on my phone screen
I agree and the lack of spectators is noticeable
Great Job DF! I wonder if things like FS3 will allow these consoles to fly the way we all thought they would and know they could, GFX have taken so many steps backwards to me recently but it's not the hardware's limits as much as using new technique's , I know there's incentives using knew engines but I want to see some Devs Use Older Tech for crisp high FPS using said generations tricks to get buttery smooth optimized gameplay even if newer tech is not able to be used like RT etc. I never had an Issue with old style reflections, and I appreciate RT in certain games too, balance is needed in the Industry.
It will, yeah. The graphical leap of the PS4 over the PS3 vanished almost completely into chasing resolution, and so it goes with the PS5 over the PS4 (and Xbox consoles) - ultimately, consoles should never render more than 1300p upscaled to whatever and frame interpolation should always be used as well. Until the lowest tier console in a given generation can use whatever the future console DLSS and FG equivalent is, we'll never actually escape the last generation.
Of course, Microsoft will then release a new console with half the memory and demand feature parity with every single game on that console, too... so yeah, you can expect actual current gen graphics in about 10 years!
I agree.
I would bet that if a studio took all the techniques from say, Driveclub, instead of wasting resources on things like raytraced reflections, they would still have room to spare at 4k60fps for some improvements and have a more impressive looking game.
I think while FM is clearly ahead technically, I find FM7 to be LARGELY more aesthetic than FM. From contrast and lighting choices to color palette, I much prefer the visuals of FM7
To be honest,the 2 shots of the mustang,performance image looks better than perf RT image,to me anyway.
It's looking soft, desaturated and low contrast but maybe it's because of the gamma value bug mentioned in the video. Should be easy to fix with a patch.
Like reality
@@LandHooman I've watched footage of real races and it can look soft with low contrast but never this flat. The game doesn't look much like reality either cos then it would pop off the screen when now it just don't. I think I'll wait and see what future patches will do.
@@geminijinxies7258 yea I guess your right
I feel like FM7 trackside detail almost looks better in a way. It seems like they scaled down the quantity of trackside assets to increase the detail of fewer assets. IMO FM7 looks better in that aspect of the track not seeming so empty.
Am I mad, I prefer how 7 looks by a stretch. Possibly the new one looks more realistic, just doesn't have that pop, it's not dazzling to the eye.
Fear not for we have horizon
Out of curiosity, is the Mercedes SL from the start of the video in the comparison between Forza Motorsport 7 and Forza Motorsport the same paint color? Just aking since it talked about the car materials, but the FM7 Mercedes looks like it have a brushed chrome while the FM looks like it have a metallic light brown.
At 6:40 there a bar of shade popping in the top of the licensplate space. Weirdest and most disatracting glitch of the entire video,
I don't want to start a fanboy war. This is clearly a beautiful looking game. But I feel, at least in this video, it looks a little bit more artificial, and less photorealistic than GT7. I wonder why. Is it the PBR materials? Is it the lighting model? The subtle yellow/orange color grading? A combination of multiple of those aspects? What's going on? I mean, this is probably an artistic choice and that's fine. I'm just interested in the technical reasons. I'd love to see a video of John comparing the different approaches to rendering these cars and tracks in Forza Motorsport and GT7 (since he did the GT7 analysis). But looking at the release schedule ahead, I guess he'll be busy for the next few months. But it's rare to see two industry leading teams at the top of their game taking on the same source material, and come up with different solutions. I mean, between, PS5 and Series X, even the hardware is very similar. I'm sure it'd be interesting to see which decisions these developers made in terms of drawbacks and features they're pushing.
It seems obvious that Forza Motorsport has no art staff responsible for coloring, so the FM8 screen looks so dull and terrible...
I hope we'll get RTGI on PC at some point, because the PC version seems quite restricted at the moment
Path tracing or bust
I don't understand. There is no mention of the obvious blurry image because of the choice of TAA.(series x here)
On PC VRR seems to be broken entirely. Run a simple benchmark with 60 vs 60 vsync with and without VRR enabled on your monitor. 60 vsync acts unlocked on my 120Hz LG CX with VRR enabled, where 60 tries to hold 60 but is still all over with frame times. The only 'fix' I've found is to turn off VRR running at 60 (vsync) in game and I get a perfectly flat line for frame times.
Excellent video. Oliver is the new work horse of the channel. He seems to do most of the videos now. Great addition to DF.
The more I play the more disappointed I get but but with the gameplay rather than the graphics. This is a next gen (current gen) only game but there is clearly something going on with the graphics here. The graphics are not as impressive as GT7 or even Motorsport 7 in some instances and I don't get it. The texture resolution seems much lower on many items, the road and grass looks lower in resolution and is quite noticeable compared to Forza 7 and I don't know why. The team talked about their new 3D foliage but all they are, are 2D boards that stay static as opposed to always facing forward to the player. It took them 6 years to develop so why is a game made from the ground up for the Series consoles not as impressive as something that was developed for last gen consoles? I am way more impressed with what Turn 10 was able to accomplish on the X Box One which was a 1.3 TFLOP machine. The Series X is a 12 TFLOP machine so why it looks like this makes zero sense. The image isn't stable, its blurry and the ray tracing looks messy, noisy and busy. Their new AA solution looks bad, Forza 7 was much sharper and stable. I put over 200 hours in Forza Motorsport 7 and while this new game plays much better, it does not look better. I'm curious if patches can fix this, I'm also curious if we ever hear what happened behind the scenes at Turn 10 because its clear that something went seriously wrong during its development cycle. I can't wait for John's video where he compares Motorsport 8 vs GT 7, its going to be one to remember!
P.S. Forgot to mention how washed out it looks. This was clearly not built from the ground up.
I was very disappointed in the graphics too. Thought Fm7 looked better too! It looked so blurry and soft, but I started to play in Dolby vision and the contrast seems to be normal not washed out. Also the textures seems to be sharper. To overcome the dull contrast I had been lowering the brightness and gamma to make it somewhat acceptable. Under dolby vision I could set the brightness and gamma as I normally do. Im actually very impressed now. It seems like they had an additional update or the texture update that was required for download is finally working. So happy now!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Please make a comparison video for GT7 and Forza Motorsport.
a 40fps MODE with the reflections boosted to the same 40fps BE an ideal mode for this game, on both series s and x, or if they can get the 60fps mode to have the reflections be 40fps, sense no frame drops occur they might have some headroom for that.
I really want to see more 40fps modes on console.
I would love to see a graphics comparison/technology review for older games that are still being updated. One might bring up World of Warcraft, Even Online, War Thunder, etc. Great to see how these games evolved graphical wise and keep adding newer technologies in them.
Judging by its small incremental upgrades I feel like it could've ran of Xbox One. Compare this 2023 game with 2013 Forza 5, the difference is hard to spot, I'd even say that 5 looks better in some instances
Yeah I felt the same way about GT7. It probably could have ran on the PS2. It also looked about the same as GT3.
@@callando5882 that's because GT3 was that big of a leap, it still looks good today
I question wether all the additional compute power is being used in a way that is providing a signifigant generational visual improvement. Slight improvements with more layers of hardware functions. Will reserve judgment till i play it
I missed the logos on the side by sides and realized it looks better in 2 out of 10 scenes and just different everywhere else
Don’t forget y’all. Playground Games is creating FABLE with ForzaTech :)
Looks amazing, will be playing it on PC and Series X (maybe try it on my steam deck to), thanks as always for the video, looks like another great Forza Motorsport entry, they sure are consistent Turn 10.
Hey! Are you guys planning on doing a deep dive on FSR 3 anytime soon?
They’re not answering you
The interior mirror affecting the screen space reflections on the wet race track surface is absolutely awful, they need to fix that
Very curious how close the PC version will come to the original preview footage...
you think PC will be worse, LOL.
will be much better obviously
@@JohnEastmanExAttyAtLaw of course not but Turn10 used something to create that original footage and it looks like it wasn't an Xbox lol. MS is doing better with stating what footage we are seeing in trailers lately but this one was a prime example of them being vague.
From the sounds of it, PC won't look much better than Series X does, at least for now but there may be additional updates down the road, particularly on the RT front, based on what Turn 10 said in a previous interview.
@@TakumiJoyconBoyz still, need for upscale and higher FPS is always a plus for PC. sharper picture quality and higher base resolution can make reflections etc. better by default. not to mention double the frame rate. much smoother for a racing game experience. as you said tho, those things will have to hopefully be added later.
It looks great but it doesn't seem to overtake GT7 more realistic driving.
Still I look forward to trying it out this week.
I wouldn't be surprised if they enable more RT options for PC later. Maybe when the new XBox release or so for parity reasons. They probably just want the game to run right now so ppl can play and don't complain about crashes too much.
I think the TAA Implentation make the 30FPS Cube Maps more jaring because of the temporal noise.
Yeah, game looks washed out resulting in low contrast. Color volume seems a bit lacking in some areas as well, but isn't as big of a deal as the contrast. Hoping reshade fixes this issue, or they patch it. HDR might help this a bit, hopefully.
I think what you perceive as washed out is just more realistic volumetric lighting.
Real life is washed out.
Go outside. Look around.
almost every scene in this video is either overcast or raining. that probably has something to do with it.
but there's also this annoying trend lately of compressing the color range so it doesn't even ever come close to reaching a full black. starfield also does it. it feels like going back to LCDs on oled, and even worse on lcds.
I agree. The new game might look more realistic but it looks boring compared to the old game
Lighting is such a huge step from last gen games
It looks so much more realistic/natural/atmospheric with better lighting
I honestly don't like it as much, it has that "raw video footage before color grading" look. It's a bit bland and washed out :/
Agreed FM7 looked drab
Still isn't better than GT7 🤣
Agree Turismo 7 looks absolute dogs shit when put side by side. Sony needs to wake up !
6:39 that shadow on the bootlid 😳
Can you change the visuals mode after your initial selection? I'm not seeing that anywhere
Great video. I think for some reason the game looks way behind GT7 graphically
Current Gen only + Dev time = Not impressive
I still wonder why modern racing games don‘t implement brake light flickering road cars use when hitting the brakes hard. And corner bend lightning exists for decades as well..
I miss the music in the background while you drive!! The anyone knows how to enable the music or is totally gone?
Have been looking forward to this
It's funny how time of day can make the game go from looking photorealistic to last gen
Or the screen your watching on lack of HDR ,oh forget TH-cam compression eh
Forza Motorsport doesn't look last gen at all whatsoever, regardless of time of day.
Good stuff. Only thing is the audio was a bit quite/muted making it hard to hear your narration Oliver.
I often wasnt sure what was the old forza and what was the new game
Really do feel like I was sold a dud with the Series S. Same graphics at a lower resolution they said.. yeah that’s not what’s panning out here. I was happy with a 1080p box (and they said it would be 1440p initially!) but we’re really not getting the same graphical features simply at a lower resolution.
Yep! Microsoft lied to us big time! Buyer beware it seems… 🙄
Upgrade and get a Series X it's that simple 🤷
@@Retro_Gamer_89 that doesn’t change the fact that we were lied to you about the boxes capabilities, bro…
Not that it matters, but I actually have both. I’m just agreeing that he’s right, we were all collectively lied to. Stop defending Microsoft deceit.
@@drunkenhearted7256 Things change that's life 🤷
Is it just me or does it appear that forza 7 looks better than the new one when they had comparisons in the video? 😂
In all the videos I have seen the new FM, all of them are blurry. But all of them are blurry, also compared with FM7. Why? What is making the FM so blurry. It hurts my eyes...
For Motorsport, they switched from MSAA to Temporal Anti Aliasing which is responsible for the overall blurrier and softer image. The MSAA of the previous titles leads to an overall cleaner and sharper final image but has trouble resolving finer lines and details leading to lots of artifacts all at a higher performance cost. TAA gets rid of the artifacts leading to a more stable and cohesive presentation but at the cost of a softer and blurrier overall image.
Do U guys use drivers that are optimised for games? Do you get drivers from nV (or AMD) before release to public?? Grtz
what i really want to know is how much has the underlying tech responsible for overall car handling and track physics improved over Forza Motorsport 7? is there a difference in how the driving in Forza Motorsport "Feels" vs the previous games? Do these new tech improvements bring Forza Motorsport closer to being an actual "Racing Simulator" or is it still just an "Arcade Racing Game/Race sim lite"?
I own both Assetto and Forza Motorsport 7 and when you turn off all the assist they are extremely similar to eachother, they claimed this one had even more realistic physics so I would say so. Games like iRacing will cover more complicated aspects and incorporate them in the physics, but that requires a subscription.
After playing for the last few days I can say the handling model is far better than FM7. The cars are more grippy, can turn sharper corners at faster speeds, has a higher sense of speed, and has that buttery, arcadey/sim cornering feel (if that makes any sense) that you'd find in the GT games that makes driving satisfying. But at the end of the day, while it is more simulation based, it's still a simcade but more on level with GT
Turn 10 "We've pulled out all the stops and have delivered a cutting edge game engine from tireless years of work in the field".
DF "Yeah, it looks pretty good..buuuut...."
Sorry guys but your starting to sound like food critics 😖
We come to DF to put things under a microscope to see things that we would never see while playing. It gives me a better appreciation for how games are designed, but would never spoil a good game for me.
Is there any reason to use an RT mode if I rece only on bumper camera?
Silverstone was fully scanned for this game. And it shows, apparently the Nuremberg rings Nordshlife long track is getting the same treatment.
I always wonders back in the day if we would ever have a racing game where the reflections in the cars would be realtime.
Yep! Two things I always hoped for in racing games. Seeing the my car reflected in the opponent car's paint. And 3D FOLIAGE on trees, instead of those lame 2D 'billboards' that just rotate so they look 'sort of right' when you look at them from different angles...
@DontReadMyProfilePicture.57I’ll think of you every time I read a Bloodborne message that says “Don’t you dare look at me!”
pole position didn't need them for me. lol
@@StreetPreacherr It still uses billboards. There are just more of them at different angles.
@@StreetPreacherr
So, you played Driveclub too, then?
Excellent video, Oliver! You have improved a lot since the beginning 💪🏻
Rude
Do you think with fsr3 they can make the rt reflection looks good on series x?
Hang on...why does this clip of FM look much clearer than igns??? Ign looks like theres a filter on it compared.