500W CNC Spindle Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2024
- In-depth test of Chinese 500W CNC spindle as an alternative to the Dremel. I build another Dremel CNC just so that I can test this spindle and I have to say that it is better than Dremel, but for some people, Dremel is still the best solution in my opinion :)
New spindle: amzn.to/49aiUMw
Dremel CNC parts list: bit.ly/2Hmlbcw
Facebook group: bit.ly/2JOdv5s
Instructables: bit.ly/2wvViAF
Thingiverse: bit.ly/2HKHzfO
Instagram: nikodembartnik
#diycnc #500wspindle #dremelCNC - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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@Samantha Briggs 2mm, single flute
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences with this spindle! I'm also about to build my own CNC machine with this 500W spindle. Good to know I have to envision something more stable than I originally thought. :)
Great video. I can't wait for you to make a bigger CNC with rugged construction like you mentioned at the tail end of the video. :)
For those saying he is spinning too slow, it comes down to surface speed and feed rate. Appropriate surface speed varies per material. Feed rate ensures that you actually produce a chip without "burnishing" the material.. This causes excess heat, and short tool life. High RPM means high feed rates. High feed rates means more torque for your steppers, more tool pressure, and therefore more stiffness required in the gantry and such. It is all a design tradeoff...
I like the video and I have always wondered about the air cooled spindles.. I have one of the chinese water cooled ones, and even at max RPM they are nearly silent.
so nice that you build this! as I saw your Dremel CNC video I was so impressed and started to build my own! then I see the same spindle on banggood and buy it! I don't have all the parts for my CNC machine but in maybe 2 months my machine is ready to mill! Thanks for the Tipp to use Nema 23 Motors!
i got the same spindel and i loving it. I mill alu and acryl glas for pc distro plates and never had an issue!
😂 I love your enthusiasm and curiosity. “It’s beginning to sound like a new project. 🤔 Maybe!”
Dude i love your CNC machines and it's trully the reason i am subbed to you :P keep up the good work
Thanks :)
Another awesome video. One day I'm going to get my cnc running properly
Great video! And great project! I just build the dremel cnc and I'm wondering, your machining settings. You shared the ones of the new splindle in aluminum. Can you share the setting for aluminum and wood for the dremel?
you want to use a down cut, or compression endmill on wood so you do not rip the edge upward. this will result in a much cleaner cut. i also find with MDF both of these end mills leave the perfect amount of dust packed into the cut to hold a 1/8" profile cut in place without any tabs or tape to secure the cutout portion. some woods might work well with a straight flute endmill also.
For Acrylic you want an upcut so that the material is pulled out of the cut otherwise is will melt back into the channel
metal, an upcut is normally desired as you want to remove the material from the cut to prevent binding issues.
Totally awesome job on the builds. One thing i was thinking is maybe you could come up with a sleeve that would go around the jacket, or even coil some copper tube around the body of the new spindle (CPU thermal paste too?) and use a small water pump to cool it like the industrial CNC units ;)
Can't wait for the next one. Thanks for your videos
Thanks!
Now that you have a pretty good CNC machine, you should try to start milling alluminium parts to replace the 3D-printed parts.
You should have better results, as aluminium should be a lot more stable (even with the dremel).
and beef up those steppers.....nema 17....EEEK....
try to get some cast iron, it should be easy to mill, and much more vibration damping.
Thats what i did First
Yes. Yes, that sounds like a new project :)
Amazing project! Thinking of making one for myself, keep up the good work :)
Thanks! Just do it :)
I liked very detailed keep all future vids that way thanks
Great video....A new project with Nema 23 motors sounds very good! Thanks a lot!
Thanks! I hope so, this will be something special :)
nema 23 have cnc minimum motors can working good, no lost step. and torgue better minimum 3Nm
thanks that was really helpful, might just have saved me a lot of tinkering :D
Nice video. Are you controlling the spindle rpm via firmware or potentiometer?
Your glasses are DOPE
european glasses are always so dope, spanish and italians like big thick frames, germans like those transparent frames
and this one is cool and thin, dope : )
Great machine and great videos--thanks for that! I built one but used some of the other remixes on thingiverse (offset x-axis carriage to change the center of gravity). One thing i'm noticing though is there is quite a bit of play on the Y-axis bearings--is this just mine or did you notice it on yours as well? I find that as soon as the 500W spindle is loaded on, it pulls the carriage down and toward the front due to its weight.
Hi Nikodem,
On a side note. You should definetly use a dust mask when milling MDF. It releases som toxic fumes(urea-formaldehyde) and also a lot of fine dust/particles. Also you should consider a ventilation system to ventilate the toxic fumes. One option is to enclose it and use extraction on the enclosure. Preferably leading the fumes/particles outside.
Other than that, great video :)
Daniel
NOT need if have dust vacuum head make to spindle.
Hello! Your channel is interesting and I'm wondering if a new version of this printer will come out! Maybe with nema 23!
Hello Nikodem Bartnik
,
I love this project and I´m doing mine with a 500w Spindle.
I would like to know If you will create a vacuum support like the dremel have.
Thanks.
Been following you as I want to build one but you comparison of dremel vs spindle raised a thought.
would an airdrill be lighter and easer to control instead of electric spindle/drill?
I very impressed with this project. So did you address the resolution problem? Witch leadscrews did you put, with what pitch?
Hi, I noticed that there's some gutting tool chatter on some of the surfaces that have been cut.Is this due to a too high feed rate of the stepper motor not being powerful enough? Or is there too much power for the hardware-constitution to handle? Great video!!
Congratulations, it's a very good project. I would have a question, how many minutes is the cutting time of the parts that cut? Could you give information?
Part of the problem with the wood appears to be the Endmills being used. You may want to use a down cut end mill with wood and use a upcut for aluminum.
I totally agree. Other factors are, I think, the MDF Nikodem used is not great quality; lots of fibre and not much resin, and the wood wasn't great either. It would have looked even better with a downcut bit, some nice wood like carvers use, and free-machining aluminium such as 6061. I don't think it's rigid or powerful enough for a compression bit. Great little machine to learn from, but like a lot of people, I am really looking forward to his new design.
I have a video where I show using blue tape, and how well it cuts (I use upcuts).
Have you thought about making it multipurpose ? An adapter to swap out the Dremel/CNC spindel with laser would be a great feature so you could also laser etch with it.
Hey. and you are going to put limit switches on the CNC ?? it would be convenient to determine the home points
I've had experience with DIY CNC machines, I've picked up some broken leafblowers and repaired them to make an extraction hood. If it pleases you, you can also attach a heat sink and use it as a method of cooling the spindle
You should sell a kit of the Dremel CNC.
I'm sure people would buy it.
Great video. Keep up the good work.
Sell the code. 3D printing is too slow.
I like how Ryan at "Mostly Printed CNC" does things. He's open source, but has a store for parts if people wish to buy parts. People buy other parts from him if they wish and print their own printed parts.
What an awesome project
Thanks, you helped me a lot
Have you checked the spindle rotation direction, also you seem to be routing with the spindle a bit slow.
I think you can test to put epoxy resin into the printed parts ( in this case you have to use less infill ) what is the pitch in this acme screws?? Thanks
Olá boy sou do Brasil...adorei seu vídeo... tenho uma router cnc com spindle de 500w...com motor de passo 15kg parece ser bom...oque você pode me aconselhar?
I love your channel,you're coolest guy🤘🤘 peace ✌
What program do you use to make the Gcode?
It looks like the Fusion 360
Do you have the configuration you use to use with the GRBL?
Great work ! I’ve made your dremel cnc machine and I’m very satisfied but if you will create something greater then ... I’m waiting for! Good luck
Thanks!
These are some great results!
Thank you!
Jakie śruby zamówiłeś do tego drugiego projektu 8x1? W liście zakupów do dremel CNC jest śruba 8x2, jakich microstepow używasz?
Gracias por a clarar mis duda buen vídeo
Great video. Ive been thinking of an interesting project where you build the CNC out of 3d printed parts and then use said CNC to mill the same parts out of aluminum essentially upgrading itself. Doesn't really solve your motor or unsupported rail issues but all the fixtures would be sturdier...
need supported SBR rails cheap and better, my cnc have SBR20 rails whit ball screws set cost 350$ ebay. size 1500x1500x400mm
Nikodem have you heard about hibrid step motor? They have a encoder.I think that you should consider it for future of this project.
Alright bro.. I'm about to embark on my own CNC build this Xmas while I have time off work but I'm not very electronics savvy so I was wondering if u could let me know what the best controller would be to get for my Nema 23 motors and TB6600 Drivers? I was told I could use an Arduino Uno R3 controller for this but I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers when it comes to this stuff. I've got my Aluminium 2020, 2060 & 2080 1000mm lengths ready along with other parts to build the frame. I got a Z Axis which is made from ABS? I believe and it is heavy as hell with a Nema 42 to control the movements.. I was thinking of changing it out for a Nema 17 but I'm not sure.. I'm using belts(2mm) and pulleys but I bought 4 Nema 23's with TB6600 drivers and I got a CNC Shield with it also with 4 Limits switches as well. It was a kit I got for under 100 Euros bro.. It was a decent deal I thought but I'm not sure tbh..
What is the best software to use with the Arduino if I choose to go that route?? Do u have any helpful hints and tips for me before I get to it?
I would very much appreciate any advice u can give me bro.. Take it ewasy and keep up the great work.
Oh Yeah I have 3 motors. I bought a Topshak 800W palm Router but it's very heavey and I don't want to unbalance the frame tbf so I went ahead and bought 2 other Spindle motors. One is a Genmitsu GS-775 but I cannot find the output in watts of this motor. Does anybody know that answer for me please. It's a 24V motor.
I also got the same 500W spindle motor u have here too and it comes with the same 52mm Clamp/holder and I got the power supply with it as well. I also got a 600W and a 360W and a 120W power supply as well.. I have a tonne of gear to begin my build but I really am stuck as far as the electronics are concerned. Any help anybody in the comments could give me would be awesome guys so just in case u help me I wanna say thankyou in advance.. Much appreciated
I think you need to mount a vacuum onto the cnc near the bit. With all those chips building up it'll retain much more heat and the airflow caused by the vacuum will help to cool it.
Nice upgrade! To prevent losing steps you could try changing the microstepping settings.
Thanks! Do you mean disabling it completely or just go half the max microstepping?
@@nikodembartnik I'm using x4 microstepping with 24v power supply, and nema17 have now more torque and I can go faster in rapids.
Excellente, i wil do the same tank lot
Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I remember something regarding the thousands of steps.....
Did you check you're microstepping settings on your controller? That might be the base of your problem. :)
Would you mind making a video on how you set up the cnc.js?
I JUST NOW ordered an "authorized refurbished" Makita rt0701c compact router for my MPCNC build. I saw a side-by-side comparison in their forums. I'll let you know how good it is. I have one of the older Dremels with the less ergonomic designs and so I'm hoping to use that one in the Dremel CNC. Because of the straighter casing, it MAY be easier to mount.
i has before makita router at spindle, worst option what i has test, after dremel, REAL spindle have lot better same cost but no noise and powerfull better,. i use 800W similar air cooler spindle what him uses video less than 150$ and lot better than makita has my cnc.
you can try two motors on each side of the leadscrew (turning in opposite direction!).. so eventually have 2 for x and 4 for y.. get motor driver extensions and drv8825 for higher violtage.. maybe 48mm deep nemas.. nice project btw :)
Im building a way larger machine than yours but I am also building a smaller machine like yours and appriciate you taking the time to compare both . Thank you
HI Nikodem Bartnik...I have de same Splinde...but, i have a (many) questions! Can you help me, please? What model of your stepper motor are you using? Would nema23? How many Kgf.cm?? Thank a lot for information and congratulations for your machines!
Hello, have you meassured how powerful the spindle and/or the power supply are? Are they really 500W?
Hello Nikodem. About 3D Parts of your CNCs, Are these form ABS Filament?
Hi Nikodem! Would it be possible to change the 3d parts for the nema 17 to be able to use nema 23? I really like this project and I would like to build it. Thank you very much! Best regards from Germany
Could you use this machine to CNC aluminum parts to make the bigger more powerful machine you mention towards the end?
Hello, I also have such a motor (48V). It was working before, but yesterday, while scraping wood, the motor had a hard time and suddenly stopped. Now it doesn't work at all. I measured it with a multimeter. There is electricity (48V) at the output of the PWM driver and the positive and negative terminals of the motor are powered, but the motor does not move. What do you think might be causing the problem?
C’mon build a new CNC. Use yours to recreate the 3D printed parts. Keep going, nice vids
How did you get that mount on spindle?
Mine seems too tight.
Hello from Russia! Thank you!
hello, what lead screws are you using now, thanks for answering
Those spindles usually have a lot of axial play, that's why I wouldn't use it a spindle. As a motor for a dedicated spindle, those are awesome.
Hi, ¿what dril (fresa) uses for cul aluminun ?
Keep on experimenting. That is how we learn :)
You know your talking to a college student right? Why the elementary comment?
It would be cool if you could make a new aluminium cnc with this cnc! I don't think it would be very practical but it would be nice to see!
You can use dremelcnc to make aluminum parts for bigger 500w cnc, then use that to machine steel parts for even bigger cnc!
what kind of aluminium did u use? looks like it was nice to dry mill it.
I am using this spindle on an MP-CNC (quite a bit bigger than the Dremel CNC) and I can really use the full potential of this spindle, which is quite good for the price ! It had a big tendency to overheat though, so building a water cooling sleeve is definitly a game changing upgrade ! If anyone is interested in the STL files of that water cooler to 3d print (specific to this very model of spindle), let me know I'll be happy to share it with you ;)
I would be interested in the STL files of the water cooler. May you share them? Thanks
MegaPaolo3000 Sure ! I can send it to you by email. You need about 125g of PLA and two ø52mm o rings
Hello! could you tell me how to connect the 500w kit to my cnc? i can't understand the wiring with the cnc
Has you some problema of interference of spindle?
When I turn on the spindle, my stepper motors go crasy.
No one's mentioned emissivity yet? :P
You can't just point an IR thermometer at a reflective surface (such as the aluminium clamp for your spindle) and expect to read anything close to an accurate temperature. In fact, with surfaces as reflective as aluminium, you're mostly going to be seeing the temperature of whatever's reflected in it! (eg yourself, the rest of the room, etc.)
Those thermometers only give accurate readings from totally matte black surfaces (but anything that isn't shiny will be fairly accurate).
Btw, you can get more powerful NEMA 17 stepper motors than the ones you're using there - you don't necessarily have to jump up to NEMA 23 :) E3D have a number of different NEMA 17 motors, including their "Super Whopper" motor. I don't know how easy it is to find those on AliExpress, though...
Agreed. NEMA 17s can easily drive a small machine like this. They have 92oz/in motors at the high end currently. A quick search for "NEMA 17 92oz" will find a bunch of sources.
We know.. those of us that know just shake our heads and let them be. Those cheap thermometers are all 0.95.
For better results, and less "tear out" use down-cut spiral / rotary bits for wood.
For machining metals such as aluminum, it's better for hobbyists to use single flute end mills, this will allow you to run the spindle at higher speeds, and still maintain a decent chip load.
It's also a good idea to use coolant with hard metals, and lubricants / lubricating coolant with soft metals.
Soft metals such as aluminium will gum up in the flutes, and can "chip-weld" themselves to your end mill. This will eventually result in a broken end mill.
All that said.. I think what you're doing is pretty neat. Keep it up!
I have also seen people using alcohol to lubricate aluminium.
So that is also good to know.
Getting rid of the brass nuts and 3d printed parts will stiffen up the chc allowing for faster feedrates and cleaner results. Check out delrin anti backlash blocks. Not expensive yet still quite good. Use compressed air to bliw away aluminium chips, that prevents gumming up the endmill. Using aluminium extrusions as frame is a step up, alliwing you to use bigger spindles and nema23 steppers. Cost quickly add up the more high quality parts you want to use like linear bearings and ballnut leadscrew and nuts.
Can I suggest using a motor heatsink, so you don't have to worry about melting the parts?
Disable microsteps with the other lead screws. Also use a higher voltage with the steppers.
i think people have done tests and there is little loss of torque with microsteps (at least with drv8825).. plus it is quieter with more microsteps..
@@speesy but u dont need quiet motors if u have a noisy spindle attached, i mean its not a 3D printer anyway. so dont use microsteps or you lose torque you need for accuracy.
@@GrandeCalle yeah.. i guess you're right :) mo noise mo powah ;)
Suggestion put the CNC on soft plastic foam board (similar to packing used to ship 3D printers and Desktop CNCs) That should kill the high speed noise. Maybe 40-50 Durometer rubber would work.
Does it vibrate a lot? Mine is almost unusable... rotor not balanced at all, it will probably fall apart after a month of use.
Hi Nikodem, what is the max voltage coming from the power supply at full speed? I get more than 120V and the spindle gets freaking hot. I wonder if the power supply need to be adjusted to a limit of max 100V?
If u go down with the voltage the amperse increase and so will your temperature. Normaly it should be better to drive with more Voltage and lower Amperes to get lower Temps, it depends also on the data of your used tools. So first you should educate yourself a bit about Electronics and reread the datasheets of your Tools.
Your Dremel cnc machine is a nice one, stick to it.
I would like to comment on your use of a 500 watt spindle.
- Lowering spindle RPM with the same feeding speed is increases (not decreasing) the cutting forces dramatically
- Seen the wood chips and burrs your guiding rods are bending (vibrating). Be careful here, if rods are coming in own frequency, bad things do happen
- When using heavier spindles please consider THK or similar linear guides on a solid base
Good luck
Nice job so far
Please elaborate on the process you use to zero the z-axis at 6:13 in the next videos if possible. Wonderful video as always.
Thank You!
He already did, notice the little Z-axis touchplate he made from a regular PCB. He has a video on that which should explain the process nicely and show you how you can make that handy and cheap touchplate yourself. In short you just use a few crocodile clamps, one on the workpiece (if it is electrically conductive you don't need a touchplate) and one on the tool. The tool is lowered slowly down and when it touches the workpiece (or touchplate) it closes the circuit which the CNC controller can detect (just like it would for a limit switch). If you used the touchplate then you know that the tool when it made contact was 1.x mm over the workpiece (however thick the touchplate is), if you did not use a touchplate then when the tool touched it was at 0 mm above the workpiece.
th-cam.com/video/l9o6ZUjb3k0/w-d-xo.html
@@nikodembartnik Thank you so much!
THANK YOU .
Just built this thanks for sharing.one thing is that you're machine seems to move alot quicker
Looks identical to the spindle I bought, there is about a 4mm hole in the top under the black fan, that hole will allow dust particles in and will seize the lower bearing in a relativly short period of time.
Hi! What software do you use?
Regards
Did you used Carbide mills or HSS for Aluminium ?
Did you ever upgrade this or did you stick to your Dremel CNC?
I just came across this, and would like to build it. I just want to make sure I get the right stepper motors etc. that you're talking about. Is there an updated parts list?
You can find ale the links in the description. There is a list of parts and link to STL files. Design is basically the same for 500W spindle and Dremel, just the spindle holder is different
minimum stepper motors need be cnc work, nema 23 3Nm and better use nema 34 biggest torgue 6-8Nm motors. but need biggest drivers too. DM 556 or DM860 have cheap good.
Has anyone tried using nema 23's instead of 17's? I'm in the process of building one and wondering if should go ahead and try to use those. Do you think some sort of adaptor plate would work or would the parts need to be redesigned for the larger size?
Problem with this spindle is RPM is too low for my taste ... Especially for PCB engraving it just seems to fall short. Also the shaft can get bent a little too easy. One stalling bit and your motor shaft is bent making it useless. But with all that said they do have a niche for which they work quite ok. Trespa and wood engraving/machining ... works just fine.
I would consider using the new Mafell with quick toolchange handle. High speeds, 1000 watts, the toolchange thing works great, especially if you invest in a few extra toolholders which would speed up changing bits even more. You can use the toolchanger with adapter sleeves or with a toolholder (and collet) so that you don't have to even use any wrenches at all when changing bits during the milling process.
The only thing I regret about the mafell is that it doesn't have an ER20 toolholder mechanism (I think max thickness for the Bit is 8 mm, would be better if it could cope with ER20 and 12 mm bits).
Waiting myself on the follow up version that is rumored to be coming soon with the quick tool change and a 10v PWM input (as opposed to a dial knob on the current version). Also sounds like they will make the power cable detachable.
Edit: btw your heat problem is most likely due to the fact that you were running it at low speed. The fan for cooling is attached to the same shaft as the toolholder. So ... less cooling at lower speeds. You could use an independent fan (12v blower would work good too) and remove the original one on the shaft so that the fan always runs at max speed even if the spindle does not.
I would be very surprised if a 1/8 or even 1/4 bit stalling could bend a 1/2" steel shaft.. First the nema 17s dont have enough stank to do that, but I would expect the cutters to snap before bending the shaft.. I sure have broken enough on my 1500W spindle..
Rory Duncan well I have one of these spindles with a bent shaft to prove it. Mind you my small scale cnc does indeed have nema23’s. But I was making the comment on the basis of my own experiences with it. And no the cutter did not snap. It happened when my machine was still using some godawful tb6550s Controller. A board with known issues on the optocouplers causing it to miss steps like mad. Which it did for me causing the cutter to plunge into a part of the stock that was nut supposed to be removed while at about 2 cm depth. The cutter stalled, the nemas kept moving, for a few seconds after the cutter stalled and the spindle was toast.
Thats when i threw this abomination driver board out and got a pokeys57cnc board.
Amazing!!! What stepper model are you using???
minimum need nema 23 3Nm torque motors and biggest motor drivers etc, DM 556 or DM860
hello
How many hours does it work non-stop these spindle?
i like your machine and thinkig about bilding the same have you ever tryed pcb ?
good job!!!!!
What is the end mill name you use to cut aluminum. Can you share a link?
Hi. what are the softwares you can recommend?
I've been wanting to experiment with 3d printed parts filled with epoxy granite. That would increase the amount of stiffness and vibration dampening exponentially. Perhaps even 3d printed parts simply wrapped in carbon tow on key areas, or perhaps even full layup.
Whats the point.. Just use aluminium or steel parts. !!