If y'all were wondering why I started out the video with "Shalom," was because my Jewish script writer Hashi thought it'd be funny to make me say it Lol. Also, had a lot of fun with that little narration I did half way through the video. Honestly, let me know if you'd be down for more stuff like that.
@@bruhm0ment6000 of course, but I celebrated it early considering one of my brothers who just came from Marine boot camp would leave the week of Thanksgiving. So we did it a week before
I have a question for you. Are the things you are talking about in these videos generally accepted in the powerscaling community? I'm very new to all this, and my friend is giving me a hard time.
@@attackonterran3933 Most of what I talk about are, but there are some aspects that are either common misconceptions that I have to address or when presenting better alternate solutions. And unfortunately, you can't convince everyone. So these videos are more so for people like you that are very new and trying to learn how to power scale.
This is an issue I'm having with a friend. Where in Baki they say he can jab at the speed of light. But when Katsumi breaks the sou d barrier, it destroys his arm. And yujiro has only shown dodging lightning as speed. He then goes to tell me that equalizing speed in powerscaling is too inconsistent, so speed relevance shouldnt be assumed.
But by this statement you are claiming feats to be superior, just Like they are. Statements are reliable but a feat Holds more ground, Examples If someone said they could jump to the moon while the other jumped to the moon, The one that did it would be more trusted If something is stated to be immune to Heat but gets burned then the Feat of it burning > The Statement of it not being affected by Heat
@@attackonterran3933 You shouldn't have to argue to much, the feat here would be that going faster then the speed of sound breaks their arms. If said person moves at the speed of Light his arms would be break but they do not. An example on Feats > Statements
2:00 So, I'm writing a story, and the power levels went crazy somehow (🗿), so i got to the point where i had to solve the issue of "How can this dude destroy a planet without destroying the planet". My solution was to put a character explaining that, even if their punched could wipe entire civilizations, they were attacking so hard that most of that energy went to another dimension and damaged the literal soul of the enemy (of course, not like that, it was a less exposition-ish explanation) That way, even if the character is breaking an island in half, you know that the punch in question was capable of wiping the entire galaxy, it just didn't because most of that energy went directly to the enemy's soul.
As long as the statements themselves are never directly contradicted by other statements or feats that happen in the series then the statements are valid for use
Feats vs statements isn't a "image" vs "words" comparison. Feats are things that actualy happen in universe. Statements are things that we don't know if happened or not, but a character or unreliable narrator says that happened (or would happen, or simply "are", etc). A narrator reliability may be subjective even when he is being truthful, because it's easy to misinterpret words than images. But feats obviously weight more than statements. If two characters fight, and the loser says that the winner was lucky and he is in fact stronger... obviously the result of the fight is the more reliable information. Even if a reliable narrator says it was an unlikely victory, and the loser character is probably stronger... if the feats shown during the fight make no reference to "lucky" events that changed the outcome, it would be unwise to believe the statement over the fact. Feats are facts (being them explained with or without "words"). Statements may be factual, or not. Feats > Statements. If any statement, even coming from the most reliable narrator possible, contradicts what is actualy being shown to happen on page/screen, giving the statement more credibility seems insane (altough I would not care that much as if this is happening, this means the art in question is very inconsistent and I would not care about powerscaling it)
Yeah some put feats are always above statements but sometimes feats isn't the ultimate telling like u said a stated planetary character can show only country level feat but scales above characters who can destroy the moons or have even feats on that level then planet level would make more sense than country level to be honest
Good video. And sometimes the author might have a character say/express something that they want the audience to specifically know. (This could be hints as to how strong a character is or what the character can do etc) The usual argument that people use when debating statements is "Oh this person is lying/bluffing." But deep down they only saying that because the person hasn't SHOWN that they can do it. That doesn't automatically mean the statement the character says is false. Surrounding context, Proper Scaling, guidebooks etc needs to all be analyzed in that situation.
Have you tried explaining why in some fictional works immesureable Speed is treated as light Speed. For example ftl is considered to be the Speed for time traveling in some flash Comics and etc is there any difference between ftl and immesureable Speed?
i think when considering statements , the people who make such statements should be researched. if picollo were to say "goku has enough power to destroy the universe" compared to if xeno or grand priest were to say it, can the person who made such a statement truly perceive what they are reffering to
imo feats should depend on the feat, as in, it shouldn't be taken at face value, for example a character exploiting another's weakness to overpower them after weakening them when they should logically have no chance otherwise should be different than overpowering them with raw strength alone. Statements should count if the statement was made from a reliable source, and would matter less if the source of the statement was less reliable. It also depends on if the statement was legit, or exaggerated for story purposes, or just a joke/gag.
I believe feats and statements are both important I will give re zero as a example spoilers past season 2 In re zero are main character Subaru is told that Satella destroyed half the world 400 years ago and that she couldn't be killed by a dragon plus two other people that where the strongest at time so they sealed her away but unfortunately we don't know how she destroyed half the world. Even with her sealed away Satella was able to summon Subaru to the re zero universe and was able to give Subaru return by death giving him the ability to restart like a check point in a video game in a ova Subaru says that the stars are different in the world he was summon so even with Satella being sealed she's still powerful enough to summon other people from a different world. In season 2 they show a hint how Satella destroyed half the world Satella was free from her sealed for a short period of time because Subaru return by death restarts everything but with the short period of time of Satella being free she used shadow magic to absorb a entire village and the people living there so we kind of know how she destroyed half the world from that feat in season 2. Satella wasn't using her real body when she absorb the village she took over Emilia body and at that time Emilia true magic potential was sealed away and her true memories became of a contract she made with puck so Satella was using a weaker body and killed Garfield in his tiger form without even trying and Garfield is very strong in one of Subaru loops Roswell had to killed Garfield when he was distracted because he said he would have a hard time killing him if he had his tiger from so Satella show how strong she is by using a different body that isn't her own and had their true magic potential sealed. In arc 5 pass season 2 nobody in the re zero world knows what a ocean is because there are no oceans left after what Satella did so we know that that part is true about what happened past 400 years ago and Satella was capable of destroying half world and she probably could have destroyed the entire world but was sealed away before she could we still don't know how long it took for Satella to destroyed half the world but in season 2 Satella already had the entire village cover in her shadow magic to absorb the village we won't know Satella true power until the last 3 arcs so we have to wait until more light novels or web novels come out telling us more about Satella sorry if this was long I hope I explained things well sometimes I am not good at explaining things.
Are you interested in that Shinza Bansho and SCP Mythos topic I replied to your answer when I asked you? Both have pretty interesting analysises you could make if you check them out.
Hey there! Thank you very much for teaching me a lot about power scaling! I haven't watched all of your videos yet (Specifically the Powerscaling 101 series) but after watching all of them I got amazed by how clear your explanations are! I have 1 question (But technically they're 2) and it's; What's Cosmology (Especially in Power Scaling)? Till now I don't seem to fully understand it. Can you make a video about it? If you can't, can you reply to me about what it really is (Again, especially in power scaling) in the simplest explanation? I don't know but I think my comprehension is too horrible to fully understand what cosmology is. That's why I said "in the simplest explanation" because I think cosmology is still pretty complex for me. Can you?
Here’s cosmology in a nutshell from Wikipedia: “Physical cosmology is the study of the universe's origin, its large-scale structures and dynamics, and the ultimate fate of the universe, including the laws of science that govern these areas” For example, if we were studying Dragon Ball’s cosmology, we would want to know about how many universes co-inside it, how many structures are within these macrocosm, how they work etc
Boundless is a tier made up by VSB that used to be called true infinity. Boundless only really exists so that verses the mods on VSB like can be a tier above rest Outerversal is simply being beyond the concept of space Due to how VSB describes their tier 0, outerversal as in being beyond the concept of space would be more impressive since VSB allows dimensioned things to be outer for some reason
@@dannysdungareedanceoff8481 white outer is stronger than infinite dimensions, infinite dimensions are not a pre requisite for outer. Also no one worth their salt uses boundless
Merry Christmas Surfbone! Great stream as always. Can you judge this argument for me? I came up with it because I was tired of people trying to downplay the Narutoverse's speed because of that *ONE* statement Zetsu made during the Sasuke and Itachi fight. If possible, can you make a video on this so we can create a meta that can finally rid of this horrendous downplay? Argument: 1. Sentence Subject: Zetsu never says the Kirin is lightning speed. He says verbatim "The speed of lightning is 1/1000 of a second...its faster than sound!". No where in that entire quote does he mention the Kirin. He was talking about actual lightning. 2. Continuity and Causality: Zetsu made that statement before the Kirin was even launched. So (unless he _somehow_ has the ability to see into the future) how could he possibly be commenting the speed of an attack he hasn't even seen yet??? 3a. Context: Black Zetsu was trying to describe the battle in terms that white Zetsu could understand. Throughout the entire battle, black Zetsu kept having to dummdown even the simplest battle concepts to white Zetsu, and he _still_ wasn't getting it - he even says verbatim "I still don't get it" after black Zetsu explains the Kirin to him. 3b. On top of that, white Zetsu is weak (probably not even Chunin level) so saying "the speed of lightning" is going to be enough to convey the point to white Zetsu that this attack is meant to be fast. Conclusion: In short, because white Zetsu is weak AND a little dull. It would be much easier to just dummitdown to "lightning speed" in order to convey the point, rather than to try to describe it's actual speed, when he doesn't even know how fast it is yet. Its like how how you would dummdown answers to hard questions from a 5 year old. That doesn't somehow change reality to match what you're saying. 4. Proven False: Zetsu would just be wrong; he literally said "It can't be evaded" and then Itachi evades it. So even *IF* you discard context and the literal fact that he *CAN'T SEE INTO THE FUTURE,* then he'd just be wrong, as both sick Itachi and *fatigued* kid Kakashi evade lightning. So the statement is just wrong and invalid. Zetsu was also wrong when he thought Pain couldn't be defeated either so why are we treating him like some sort of omniscient, reliable narrator? 5. Preponderance, Validity and Weight of Evidence (Cherrypicking): There are countless other pieces of evidence that points towards light speed in Naruto, yet people will discard *ALL* of that in favor of this *ONE* out of context, and proven factually false, statement. Again, even if you ignore the context and the falsidical nature of the statement (my 4 previous points), why does this *SINGLE* passing statement - made by a significantly weaker character at the time - suddenly holds more weight than all the later information? It doesn't. It's just like how in real life, when we have conflicting scientific studies and evidence that points to two mutually exclusive conclusions, we don't just cherrypick the outliers; we go with the preponderance of scientific evidence, and discard the outliers, especially if they can be explained with conflict of interest, etc. 6. Progressions and Contradictions: The war happens *after* this statement. All this means is that Kishimoto could have just changed his mind about how fast he wanted his characters to be, or simply made them *faster* after the fact. Zetsu *supposedly* saying the Kirin is lightning speed doesn't somehow limit the rest of the series to that level. Its almost like people don't get that an author can change their mind, or simply progress a series beyond a previous point. Wow, who would have thought. Here, I've laid out 6 separate points, all of which can *individually* render this statement invalid and factually false. But all 6 of them are true together and coexist, making the effect even stronger in my opinion. Please don't get discouraged from making the video if you see others making it first. I already plan on asking as many Naruto Scalers as I can to address this topic; so you can just flash this comment on screen to show that it was a viewer recommendation/request, and *not* that you were copying video ideas. The more videos made, the more people see it, and the more we can fight back against this downplay
When a character describe "what is happening" its a statement. And in DB, its usualy a nonsensical lie. A feat would be if we saw goku destroying a universe. This could be hard to draw happening in a manga, and so a reliable non character narrator could explain it, making it a feat, but its not the case in the example. And it would make no sense. Goku is usualy contained within a universe. If he was hit if something that could destroy the whole universe, it would necessarily be capable of destroying him too. He would need to be an outerversal character for something like this to be considered.
Hey, so this is a completely unrelated topic to this video, but seeing how you are friends with webcamparrot and do dc stuffs yourself I had a question. You all scale darkseid to 1A because of Plato's theory of forms and perfect idealism or something it's called. So, now every comic I have read of darkseid appearing I.e the new gods and so from the 1900's it always either refer darkseid to be a physical being, the dimension where darkseid lives having size I.e space, and sometimes eveb temporal activities. Bombtubes just makes you small like damn small, bur they still exist on the same plane, universes are considered bubbles in the godsphere but the difference between you and me with a bubble is not an outerversal difference. Size is also an inherent aspect of space as we determine a space by it's size and so, which wouldn't make sense when darkseid and the new gods are supposed to trans dual perfect forms beyond all conception of time and space of humans and beyond human mind. Plus, darkseid in his true form was killed by vibrations...
@@mercyyy5625 thank you for the answer. Is that a highball? If not could I ask for a highballed scaling. Maybe an argument to even light speed( it’s okay if they are contentious I just wanna hear🙂)2. Also how does gravity affects a persons speed? Since the planet is much larger in hxh and it’s assumed that it isn’t made up by gas wouldn’t the characters be much faster?
Question after watching your video I'm still kinda confused with the feats vs statements for example Mr. Satan from dragon many characters made statements that he's the strongest man in the universe and the feats Mr Satan has shown was surviving a punch from cell and a cyber man while the z fighters couldn't at the time so does that make Mr Satan stronger than the z fighters if we use statements instead of feats?
@@pyktukasplays4945 like that's what I'm saying I'm thinking feats>statements other wise what's the known limit you can take statements without feats to back it up?
Thats where we apply context to the statement which is basically what the video stresses on, and with context we apply the sense of "relativity" Let me explain this Mr Satan is stated and he himself claimed many times to be the strongest man in the world so is that a exaggeration? If we compare his demonstrated power and feats to entiety of the Dragon ball verse, his feats indeed are far eclipsed by any superhuman. Does that mean the statement is exaggerated and we can throw it away? Not exactly. Thats where we apply the context, analyzing the context of his statements and context of when people call him strongest we come to know that people making the statements aren't aware of any superhumans or power of ki(which is main fuel for superhuman level strengths) nor have they witnessed anyone stronger than him by their own eyes, now with the added context and applying sense of relative scale, we come to conclusion based on available knowledge of people and demonstrated power of Mr Satan that he is "strongest man" in the world only in relation to human level which means that instead of dismissing the statement as hyperbole or believing in it absolutely, we say that the statement is true to extent that he is on top of strength chain of ordinary human strength henceforth the title but his power is far weaker than that of Z fighters or any Superhuman level people in verse. Thats how you answer the cases like these by using context and if needed applying the sense of relative scale. Hope my lengthy explanation(apologies for length) answers your question
@@IbiActive Oh, sometimes long explanations are needed. But it is also better to not write walls of text. Try to separate some groups of sentences from others.
@@pyktukasplays4945 I agree, I also indeed like to seperate different topics into various bunch of paragraphs rather than large bulk of text but its just that the idea in my paragraph was same and I just wanted to continue with the same idea which is why it ended up with large hulk of text. Second reason is that to be fair when I am writing the comment in a editor, it appeared much smaller than when I posted it.....which ended up looking like that, thats because of how comments appears in my TH-cam which is split vertically between video and comment which then ends up giving gives limited space to comments in comments section so they end up appearing much larger than what they actually are
Death of the Author in general is a stupid concept that gets misused in the community anyway. An interpretation or statement from an author inside or outside the text should automatically be more valid than any fan made one. That just goes without saying.
Stupid? Hell no. Misunderstood heavily? Hell yeah. Maybe you should go give that video a watch first or better yet go read Roland Barthes' essay before saying something ignorant like this Lol
@@surfbone I will to see what y’all have to say but I don’t need to because I already know all about it and why it’s dumb. Nothing I said was ignorant, not acknowledging something because it’s not in the work is stupid to me. People usually only reject it because it goes against their own interpretations which they want to be superior. It’s an ego thing. If there’s gonna be any one interpretation that’s “true” it’s gonna be the intended one, not some made up one.
@@FahimusAlimus After you watch the video, you'll hopefully realize how dumb of an idea this "true" interpretation sounds. And if you want to discuss this further, join my discord
@@FahimusAlimus Then what was the point of coming into my comment section admitting to being willfully ignorant and not knowing what you're talking about? You're only making yourself look like a fool rn Lol
If I ever do a video on pixel scaling, it would actually be about educating people and telling them the basics of what they need to know; because I don't find the concept to be at all stupid. Because only people that do are the people that believe in authorial intent and that authors supposedly "didn't intend for their work to be calc'd or drawn to scale." And I would even go so far as to dedicate a whole section on why that point of view is incredibly close-minded and inconsiderate. No offense to you that you think that, but if you value my opinion, that's what I believe. And I would be more than willing to defend it.
😳wtf!? huh? what? noooo! wait!? what you said doesn't make sense. 1. we see goku and beerus clash and "shake the universe 7" 2. we do not see goku and beerus clash and "destroy universe 7" or anything even close to destroying universe 7 in the anime or the manga 3. all we see is a some moons and a planet destroyed, vibration waves, some solar flares, and some bright lights - the destruction looks solar system level compared to what we say in the tournament of power . . . yawn!🥱 4. then, the supreme kai says "the universe is going to crumble" and "the story of this cosmos has reached its final page". 5. the supreme kai's comment about "universe 7 being destroyed" isnt an "exposition" or even a "description" of the universe being destroyed 6. the supreme kai's comment about universe 7 is "something that was said on page or on screen" rather than what's shown to us" in the manga or the anime 7. so, based on your definition of feats having exposition, we cannot say that goku and beerus are powerful enough to destroy the universe. now, contrast that to saitama's and cosmic garou's first punch 1. we can clearly see the energy radiate off of their punch and rip a hole in the universe - where millions of stars, galaxies, nebulas, black holes, and dark matter used to be. 2. based on this image, we know that saitama and cosmic garou' punch can destroy a portion of the universe 2. their feat was "something that was shown to us." rather than something that was said on page or on screen" 3. we also clearly see saitama and cosmic garou repair the portion of the universe that they destroyed and undo their timeline 4. so, based on your definition of feats having exposition, we can say that saitama and cosmic garou are powerful enough to destroy the universe, or at least a portion of the universe also, blast called cosmic garou a being who can manipulate the reality of the cosmos
It probably didn’t make sense to you because you completely misrepresented what I said. If what you found issue with was the actual example of what I thought about Goku vs Beerus, then I don’t care. Since it changes nothing about what my video represents if I didn’t include it. So besides, do you actually have a REAL problem with my video or what?
@@surfbone actually, i really like your videos. they're really cool and informative. but, if you make the rules then you have to follow the rules. and in this instance, the you broke your own rules. 1. you said that a statement is something that is said or read on screen vs something that is shown to us. based on this, when thanos told doctor strange "with all six stones i could simply snap my fingers and they would all cease to exist." that was a statement. 2. you said that a feat as something a character actually does on page or on screen. based on this, when thanos snapped his fingers and destroyed half of the life in the universe, that was a feat. 3. we see the vibrations from goku's and beerus' punch actually shake universe 7 and/or even the multiverse. i agree with you 100 percent. that was a huge feat! 4. you said "when we see goku and beerus clash and nearly destroy universe 7 on screen, that itself is a feat." (fyi - in the tournament of power, we actually saw what the beginning of the destruction of a universe looks like). 5. however, in the db anime and manga, all we see are the ripples destroying a couple of planets and causing some solar flares. how can any objective person claim that those tiny events could "nearly destroy universe 7"? that's impossible! and . . . those tiny events can hardly be considered the beginnings of a universe ending, cataclysmic event that you and many db fans made it out to be. wouldn't you agree? 6. the supreme kai said "the universe is going to crumble" and "the story of this cosmos has reached its final page". but he didn't observe or describe any universe ending destruction nor did we see any. based on your own definition, the kai's comments about goku/beerus potential universe destroying punch is not "a feat". it's just a statement or something db fans tell themselves whenever they read opm chapters 167 and 168. 7. in sharp contrast, blast's comment about cosmic garou's powers was a statement until saitama and garou punch a hole in the universe and then repair it - now that what you call "a feat"!
@@fitnessstuff915 Ok, do you don’t actually have any problems with my video then. Noted, glad to you like the videos. However, I don’t want to get in this bible text dump in a YT comments section. If this is something you actually want to discuss with me. Feel free to join my discord. Otherwise have a good day
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
If y'all were wondering why I started out the video with "Shalom," was because my Jewish script writer Hashi thought it'd be funny to make me say it Lol. Also, had a lot of fun with that little narration I did half way through the video. Honestly, let me know if you'd be down for more stuff like that.
I enjoyed shalom and the narration thought u were Jewish lmao
Do you celebrate Thanksgiving?
@@bruhm0ment6000 of course, but I celebrated it early considering one of my brothers who just came from Marine boot camp would leave the week of Thanksgiving. So we did it a week before
I have a question for you. Are the things you are talking about in these videos generally accepted in the powerscaling community? I'm very new to all this, and my friend is giving me a hard time.
@@attackonterran3933 Most of what I talk about are, but there are some aspects that are either common misconceptions that I have to address or when presenting better alternate solutions. And unfortunately, you can't convince everyone. So these videos are more so for people like you that are very new and trying to learn how to power scale.
Feats and statements should both be equally valid with context, as long as there aren’t any giant contradictions with scaling
This is an issue I'm having with a friend. Where in Baki they say he can jab at the speed of light. But when Katsumi breaks the sou d barrier, it destroys his arm. And yujiro has only shown dodging lightning as speed. He then goes to tell me that equalizing speed in powerscaling is too inconsistent, so speed relevance shouldnt be assumed.
Ty context always matter and ppl r either intellectually dishonest or misunderstand feats and statements altogether
I agree
But by this statement you are claiming feats to be superior, just Like they are. Statements are reliable but a feat Holds more ground, Examples
If someone said they could jump to the moon while the other jumped to the moon, The one that did it would be more trusted
If something is stated to be immune to Heat but gets burned then the Feat of it burning > The Statement of it not being affected by Heat
@@attackonterran3933
You shouldn't have to argue to much, the feat here would be that going faster then the speed of sound breaks their arms. If said person moves at the speed of Light his arms would be break but they do not. An example on Feats > Statements
2:00 So, I'm writing a story, and the power levels went crazy somehow (🗿), so i got to the point where i had to solve the issue of "How can this dude destroy a planet without destroying the planet". My solution was to put a character explaining that, even if their punched could wipe entire civilizations, they were attacking so hard that most of that energy went to another dimension and damaged the literal soul of the enemy (of course, not like that, it was a less exposition-ish explanation)
That way, even if the character is breaking an island in half, you know that the punch in question was capable of wiping the entire galaxy, it just didn't because most of that energy went directly to the enemy's soul.
Holy, that is smart. I should probably do something similar to that.
Great video man!! Very glad I was recommended this video by another scaler.
Statements and feats > headcannon and biases
3:28 that’s Perfect
Ayyy, I needed just this! I just came across your videos. Helping me learn a lot!
Same…..
The music gave you a detective vibe
Surfbone you ever thought about making a audio book channel 😂. That narration was really good.
As long as the statements themselves are never directly contradicted by other statements or feats that happen in the series then the statements are valid for use
Feats vs statements isn't a "image" vs "words" comparison. Feats are things that actualy happen in universe. Statements are things that we don't know if happened or not, but a character or unreliable narrator says that happened (or would happen, or simply "are", etc). A narrator reliability may be subjective even when he is being truthful, because it's easy to misinterpret words than images.
But feats obviously weight more than statements. If two characters fight, and the loser says that the winner was lucky and he is in fact stronger... obviously the result of the fight is the more reliable information. Even if a reliable narrator says it was an unlikely victory, and the loser character is probably stronger... if the feats shown during the fight make no reference to "lucky" events that changed the outcome, it would be unwise to believe the statement over the fact.
Feats are facts (being them explained with or without "words"). Statements may be factual, or not. Feats > Statements. If any statement, even coming from the most reliable narrator possible, contradicts what is actualy being shown to happen on page/screen, giving the statement more credibility seems insane (altough I would not care that much as if this is happening, this means the art in question is very inconsistent and I would not care about powerscaling it)
Wrong, Feats = Statements lol
Yeah some put feats are always above statements but sometimes feats isn't the ultimate telling like u said a stated planetary character can show only country level feat but scales above characters who can destroy the moons or have even feats on that level then planet level would make more sense than country level to be honest
Tysm for making this video!
You got me at "Shalom"
Good video. And sometimes the author might have a character say/express something that they want the audience to specifically know. (This could be hints as to how strong a character is or what the character can do etc)
The usual argument that people use when debating statements is "Oh this person is lying/bluffing." But deep down they only saying that because the person hasn't SHOWN that they can do it. That doesn't automatically mean the statement the character says is false.
Surrounding context, Proper Scaling, guidebooks etc needs to all be analyzed in that situation.
Statements and feats need the proper context of understanding to scale them I think.
love your impression of cell
That was a pretty good cell impression
Your perfect cell voice could use some work but ur reeeeeeeeeaaaallly close.
I’m honestly impressed
i want to learn scaling and stuff, just found your channel and it helps me a lot, thank you so much
Could you someday do a video about Composite Characters? Many people misunderstood this concept or does not know what this truly means.
As if you’ve got more subs than noodles, well done my friend, your different content has stood out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Statements are the right way to scale
Great video.
Have you tried explaining why in some fictional works immesureable Speed is treated as light Speed.
For example ftl is considered to be the Speed for time traveling in some flash Comics and etc is there any difference between ftl and immesureable Speed?
i think when considering statements , the people who make such statements should be researched. if picollo were to say "goku has enough power to destroy the universe" compared to if xeno or grand priest were to say it, can the person who made such a statement truly perceive what they are reffering to
Cinimatic timing fans explaining why the characters are talking at super speed:
Can you do a video on the different fallacies in scaling
I have two videos going over 10
imo feats should depend on the feat, as in, it shouldn't be taken at face value, for example a character exploiting another's weakness to overpower them after weakening them when they should logically have no chance otherwise should be different than overpowering them with raw strength alone. Statements should count if the statement was made from a reliable source, and would matter less if the source of the statement was less reliable. It also depends on if the statement was legit, or exaggerated for story purposes, or just a joke/gag.
So basically how people tend to do things
I believe feats and statements are both important I will give re zero as a example spoilers past season 2
In re zero are main character Subaru is told that Satella destroyed half the world 400 years ago and that she couldn't be killed by a dragon plus two other people that where the strongest at time so they sealed her away but unfortunately we don't know how she destroyed half the world. Even with her sealed away Satella was able to summon Subaru to the re zero universe and was able to give Subaru return by death giving him the ability to restart like a check point in a video game in a ova Subaru says that the stars are different in the world he was summon so even with Satella being sealed she's still powerful enough to summon other people from a different world. In season 2 they show a hint how Satella destroyed half the world Satella was free from her sealed for a short period of time because Subaru return by death restarts everything but with the short period of time of Satella being free she used shadow magic to absorb a entire village and the people living there so we kind of know how she destroyed half the world from that feat in season 2. Satella wasn't using her real body when she absorb the village she took over Emilia body and at that time Emilia true magic potential was sealed away and her true memories became of a contract she made with puck so Satella was using a weaker body and killed Garfield in his tiger form without even trying and Garfield is very strong in one of Subaru loops Roswell had to killed Garfield when he was distracted because he said he would have a hard time killing him if he had his tiger from so Satella show how strong she is by using a different body that isn't her own and had their true magic potential sealed. In arc 5 pass season 2 nobody in the re zero world knows what a ocean is because there are no oceans left after what Satella did so we know that that part is true about what happened past 400 years ago and Satella was capable of destroying half world and she probably could have destroyed the entire world but was sealed away before she could we still don't know how long it took for Satella to destroyed half the world but in season 2 Satella already had the entire village cover in her shadow magic to absorb the village we won't know Satella true power until the last 3 arcs so we have to wait until more light novels or web novels come out telling us more about Satella sorry if this was long I hope I explained things well sometimes I am not good at explaining things.
I made it up > feats and statements
Are you interested in that Shinza Bansho and SCP Mythos topic I replied to your answer when I asked you? Both have pretty interesting analysises you could make if you check them out.
Thank You!!! He literally just explained why the 3rd Hokage is actually one of the weakest Hokages
Hey there! Thank you very much for teaching me a lot about power scaling! I haven't watched all of your videos yet (Specifically the Powerscaling 101 series) but after watching all of them I got amazed by how clear your explanations are! I have 1 question (But technically they're 2) and it's; What's Cosmology (Especially in Power Scaling)? Till now I don't seem to fully understand it. Can you make a video about it? If you can't, can you reply to me about what it really is (Again, especially in power scaling) in the simplest explanation? I don't know but I think my comprehension is too horrible to fully understand what cosmology is. That's why I said "in the simplest explanation" because I think cosmology is still pretty complex for me. Can you?
Here’s cosmology in a nutshell from Wikipedia:
“Physical cosmology is the study of the universe's origin, its large-scale structures and dynamics, and the ultimate fate of the universe, including the laws of science that govern these areas”
For example, if we were studying Dragon Ball’s cosmology, we would want to know about how many universes co-inside it, how many structures are within these macrocosm, how they work etc
@@surfbone So basically it's "how big" the verse is?
@@freedelahoyathesuperzblade5743 that’s basically it, yeah
@@surfbone So it's like how big the verse's universe is, or how many universes/multiverses there are in, how much dimensionality they have, etc?
@@freedelahoyathesuperzblade5743 ye
I have a question, what is the key difference between outerversal and boundless, and is sun wukong boundless?
Boundless is a tier made up by VSB that used to be called true infinity. Boundless only really exists so that verses the mods on VSB like can be a tier above rest
Outerversal is simply being beyond the concept of space
Due to how VSB describes their tier 0, outerversal as in being beyond the concept of space would be more impressive since VSB allows dimensioned things to be outer for some reason
Outerversal transcend infinite dimensionality
Boundless transcends that (outerversal) lvl of existence/ power with no upper limit
@@dannysdungareedanceoff8481 white outer is stronger than infinite dimensions, infinite dimensions are not a pre requisite for outer. Also no one worth their salt uses boundless
Merry Christmas Surfbone! Great stream as always.
Can you judge this argument for me? I came up with it because I was tired of people trying to downplay the Narutoverse's speed because of that *ONE* statement Zetsu made during the Sasuke and Itachi fight. If possible, can you make a video on this so we can create a meta that can finally rid of this horrendous downplay?
Argument:
1. Sentence Subject: Zetsu never says the Kirin is lightning speed. He says verbatim "The speed of lightning is 1/1000 of a second...its faster than sound!". No where in that entire quote does he mention the Kirin. He was talking about actual lightning.
2. Continuity and Causality: Zetsu made that statement before the Kirin was even launched. So (unless he _somehow_ has the ability to see into the future) how could he possibly be commenting the speed of an attack he hasn't even seen yet???
3a. Context: Black Zetsu was trying to describe the battle in terms that white Zetsu could understand. Throughout the entire battle, black Zetsu kept having to dummdown even the simplest battle concepts to white Zetsu, and he _still_ wasn't getting it - he even says verbatim "I still don't get it" after black Zetsu explains the Kirin to him.
3b. On top of that, white Zetsu is weak (probably not even Chunin level) so saying "the speed of lightning" is going to be enough to convey the point to white Zetsu that this attack is meant to be fast.
Conclusion: In short, because white Zetsu is weak AND a little dull. It would be much easier to just dummitdown to "lightning speed" in order to convey the point, rather than to try to describe it's actual speed, when he doesn't even know how fast it is yet. Its like how how you would dummdown answers to hard questions from a 5 year old. That doesn't somehow change reality to match what you're saying.
4. Proven False: Zetsu would just be wrong; he literally said "It can't be evaded" and then Itachi evades it. So even *IF* you discard context and the literal fact that he *CAN'T SEE INTO THE FUTURE,* then he'd just be wrong, as both sick Itachi and *fatigued* kid Kakashi evade lightning. So the statement is just wrong and invalid.
Zetsu was also wrong when he thought Pain couldn't be defeated either so why are we treating him like some sort of omniscient, reliable narrator?
5. Preponderance, Validity and Weight of Evidence (Cherrypicking): There are countless other pieces of evidence that points towards light speed in Naruto, yet people will discard *ALL* of that in favor of this *ONE* out of context, and proven factually false, statement. Again, even if you ignore the context and the falsidical nature of the statement (my 4 previous points), why does this *SINGLE* passing statement - made by a significantly weaker character at the time - suddenly holds more weight than all the later information? It doesn't. It's just like how in real life, when we have conflicting scientific studies and evidence that points to two mutually exclusive conclusions, we don't just cherrypick the outliers; we go with the preponderance of scientific evidence, and discard the outliers, especially if they can be explained with conflict of interest, etc.
6. Progressions and Contradictions: The war happens *after* this statement. All this means is that Kishimoto could have just changed his mind about how fast he wanted his characters to be, or simply made them *faster* after the fact. Zetsu *supposedly* saying the Kirin is lightning speed doesn't somehow limit the rest of the series to that level. Its almost like people don't get that an author can change their mind, or simply progress a series beyond a previous point. Wow, who would have thought.
Here, I've laid out 6 separate points, all of which can *individually* render this statement invalid and factually false. But all 6 of them are true together and coexist, making the effect even stronger in my opinion.
Please don't get discouraged from making the video if you see others making it first. I already plan on asking as many Naruto Scalers as I can to address this topic; so you can just flash this comment on screen to show that it was a viewer recommendation/request, and *not* that you were copying video ideas. The more videos made, the more people see it, and the more we can fight back against this downplay
And then there's characters like kratos where u can use the scaling from the lore or the game 😆
When a character describe "what is happening" its a statement. And in DB, its usualy a nonsensical lie. A feat would be if we saw goku destroying a universe. This could be hard to draw happening in a manga, and so a reliable non character narrator could explain it, making it a feat, but its not the case in the example. And it would make no sense. Goku is usualy contained within a universe. If he was hit if something that could destroy the whole universe, it would necessarily be capable of destroying him too. He would need to be an outerversal character for something like this to be considered.
So does that mean that Sengoku’s statement with Whitebeard destroying the planet is not a hyperbole?
I love you.
i only have 2 brain cells and I don't under stand any of this
Dw bro, I'm sure you will come around
can you make a video covering the difference between low, mid, and high outerversal? the vs battles wiki's definitions are way too confusing
Already did, it's called "How to Scale Higher Dimensions and BEYOND"
@@surfbone well that's nice
Hey, so this is a completely unrelated topic to this video, but seeing how you are friends with webcamparrot and do dc stuffs yourself I had a question. You all scale darkseid to 1A because of Plato's theory of forms and perfect idealism or something it's called. So, now every comic I have read of darkseid appearing I.e the new gods and so from the 1900's it always either refer darkseid to be a physical being, the dimension where darkseid lives having size I.e space, and sometimes eveb temporal activities.
Bombtubes just makes you small like damn small, bur they still exist on the same plane, universes are considered bubbles in the godsphere but the difference between you and me with a bubble is not an outerversal difference. Size is also an inherent aspect of space as we determine a space by it's size and so, which wouldn't make sense when darkseid and the new gods are supposed to trans dual perfect forms beyond all conception of time and space of humans and beyond human mind.
Plus, darkseid in his true form was killed by vibrations...
If you have an issue with Outerversal godsphere you're better off joining the discord
Can you do a video on Immortality?
That will be made, I gotchu king
Great idea because there a different types of immortality
Can you make video about Plot-Induced Stupidity
Do you do scaling vids. Please do so for hxh charcters( anyone) maybe some inverse or between other verse like mha🙂
Mountain lvl and mhs
@@mercyyy5625 thank you for the answer. Is that a highball? If not could I ask for a highballed scaling. Maybe an argument to even light speed( it’s okay if they are contentious I just wanna hear🙂)2. Also how does gravity affects a persons speed? Since the planet is much larger in hxh and it’s assumed that it isn’t made up by gas wouldn’t the characters be much faster?
damn it i got banned from the discord☠
JugIaNS arCHEtyPEs High outer tho
surfbone the dub va???
שלום
So Boro> Delta? Heh heh...
What novel were you narrating ?
the devastation of baal
What if a characters states that their universal?
Besides context being important, if they’re stated to be universal then they’re universal
@@surfbone where do you scale goku
@@GameZone-m5r Low Multiversal to Multiversal and MFTL+
Question after watching your video I'm still kinda confused with the feats vs statements for example Mr. Satan from dragon many characters made statements that he's the strongest man in the universe and the feats Mr Satan has shown was surviving a punch from cell and a cyber man while the z fighters couldn't at the time so does that make Mr Satan stronger than the z fighters if we use statements instead of feats?
Kid Buu flinched from Mr Satan's punches. And he was being serious.
@@pyktukasplays4945 like that's what I'm saying I'm thinking feats>statements other wise what's the known limit you can take statements without feats to back it up?
Thats where we apply context to the statement which is basically what the video stresses on, and with context we apply the sense of "relativity"
Let me explain this
Mr Satan is stated and he himself claimed many times to be the strongest man in the world so is that a exaggeration? If we compare his demonstrated power and feats to entiety of the Dragon ball verse, his feats indeed are far eclipsed by any superhuman. Does that mean the statement is exaggerated and we can throw it away? Not exactly. Thats where we apply the context, analyzing the context of his statements and context of when people call him strongest we come to know that people making the statements aren't aware of any superhumans or power of ki(which is main fuel for superhuman level strengths) nor have they witnessed anyone stronger than him by their own eyes, now with the added context and applying sense of relative scale, we come to conclusion based on available knowledge of people and demonstrated power of Mr Satan that he is "strongest man" in the world only in relation to human level which means that instead of dismissing the statement as hyperbole or believing in it absolutely, we say that the statement is true to extent that he is on top of strength chain of ordinary human strength henceforth the title but his power is far weaker than that of Z fighters or any Superhuman level people in verse. Thats how you answer the cases like these by using context and if needed applying the sense of relative scale.
Hope my lengthy explanation(apologies for length) answers your question
@@IbiActive Oh, sometimes long explanations are needed. But it is also better to not write walls of text.
Try to separate some groups of sentences from others.
@@pyktukasplays4945 I agree, I also indeed like to seperate different topics into various bunch of paragraphs rather than large bulk of text but its just that the idea in my paragraph was same and I just wanted to continue with the same idea which is why it ended up with large hulk of text.
Second reason is that to be fair when I am writing the comment in a editor, it appeared much smaller than when I posted it.....which ended up looking like that, thats because of how comments appears in my TH-cam which is split vertically between video and comment which then ends up giving gives limited space to comments in comments section so they end up appearing much larger than what they actually are
Death of the Author in general is a stupid concept that gets misused in the community anyway. An interpretation or statement from an author inside or outside the text should automatically be more valid than any fan made one. That just goes without saying.
Stupid? Hell no. Misunderstood heavily? Hell yeah. Maybe you should go give that video a watch first or better yet go read Roland Barthes' essay before saying something ignorant like this Lol
@@surfbone I will to see what y’all have to say but I don’t need to because I already know all about it and why it’s dumb. Nothing I said was ignorant, not acknowledging something because it’s not in the work is stupid to me. People usually only reject it because it goes against their own interpretations which they want to be superior. It’s an ego thing. If there’s gonna be any one interpretation that’s “true” it’s gonna be the intended one, not some made up one.
@@FahimusAlimus After you watch the video, you'll hopefully realize how dumb of an idea this "true" interpretation sounds. And if you want to discuss this further, join my discord
@@surfbone not dumb at all. I do know how dumb death of the author sounds tho lol. There’s nothing to discuss lol, this isn’t a debate.
@@FahimusAlimus Then what was the point of coming into my comment section admitting to being willfully ignorant and not knowing what you're talking about? You're only making yourself look like a fool rn Lol
Please do a vidoe of pixal scaling and it stupidly of it
If I ever do a video on pixel scaling, it would actually be about educating people and telling them the basics of what they need to know; because I don't find the concept to be at all stupid. Because only people that do are the people that believe in authorial intent and that authors supposedly "didn't intend for their work to be calc'd or drawn to scale." And I would even go so far as to dedicate a whole section on why that point of view is incredibly close-minded and inconsiderate. No offense to you that you think that, but if you value my opinion, that's what I believe. And I would be more than willing to defend it.
@@surfbone ok
@@surfbone I Would To See That Video!!
😳wtf!? huh? what? noooo! wait!? what you said doesn't make sense.
1. we see goku and beerus clash and "shake the universe 7"
2. we do not see goku and beerus clash and "destroy universe 7" or anything even close to destroying universe 7 in the anime or the manga
3. all we see is a some moons and a planet destroyed, vibration waves, some solar flares, and some bright lights - the destruction looks solar system level compared to what we say in the tournament of power . . . yawn!🥱
4. then, the supreme kai says "the universe is going to crumble" and "the story of this cosmos has reached its final page".
5. the supreme kai's comment about "universe 7 being destroyed" isnt an "exposition" or even a "description" of the universe being destroyed
6. the supreme kai's comment about universe 7 is "something that was said on page or on screen" rather than what's shown to us" in the manga or the anime
7. so, based on your definition of feats having exposition, we cannot say that goku and beerus are powerful enough to destroy the universe.
now, contrast that to saitama's and cosmic garou's first punch
1. we can clearly see the energy radiate off of their punch and rip a hole in the universe - where millions of stars, galaxies, nebulas, black holes, and dark matter used to be.
2. based on this image, we know that saitama and cosmic garou' punch can destroy a portion of the universe
2. their feat was "something that was shown to us." rather than something that was said on page or on screen"
3. we also clearly see saitama and cosmic garou repair the portion of the universe that they destroyed and undo their timeline
4. so, based on your definition of feats having exposition, we can say that saitama and cosmic garou are powerful enough to destroy the universe, or at least a portion of the universe
also, blast called cosmic garou a being who can manipulate the reality of the cosmos
It probably didn’t make sense to you because you completely misrepresented what I said. If what you found issue with was the actual example of what I thought about Goku vs Beerus, then I don’t care. Since it changes nothing about what my video represents if I didn’t include it. So besides, do you actually have a REAL problem with my video or what?
@@surfbone actually, i really like your videos. they're really cool and informative. but, if you make the rules then you have to follow the rules. and in this instance, the you broke your own rules.
1. you said that a statement is something that is said or read on screen vs something that is shown to us. based on this, when thanos told doctor strange "with all six stones i could simply snap my fingers and they would all cease to exist." that was a statement.
2. you said that a feat as something a character actually does on page or on screen. based on this, when thanos snapped his fingers and destroyed half of the life in the universe, that was a feat.
3. we see the vibrations from goku's and beerus' punch actually shake universe 7 and/or even the multiverse. i agree with you 100 percent. that was a huge feat!
4. you said "when we see goku and beerus clash and nearly destroy universe 7 on screen, that itself is a feat." (fyi - in the tournament of power, we actually saw what the beginning of the destruction of a universe looks like).
5. however, in the db anime and manga, all we see are the ripples destroying a couple of planets and causing some solar flares. how can any objective person claim that those tiny events could "nearly destroy universe 7"? that's impossible! and . . . those tiny events can hardly be considered the beginnings of a universe ending, cataclysmic event that you and many db fans made it out to be. wouldn't you agree?
6. the supreme kai said "the universe is going to crumble" and "the story of this cosmos has reached its final page". but he didn't observe or describe any universe ending destruction nor did we see any. based on your own definition, the kai's comments about goku/beerus potential universe destroying punch is not "a feat". it's just a statement or something db fans tell themselves whenever they read opm chapters 167 and 168.
7. in sharp contrast, blast's comment about cosmic garou's powers was a statement until saitama and garou punch a hole in the universe and then repair it - now that what you call "a feat"!
@@fitnessstuff915 Ok, do you don’t actually have any problems with my video then. Noted, glad to you like the videos.
However, I don’t want to get in this bible text dump in a YT comments section. If this is something you actually want to discuss with me. Feel free to join my discord. Otherwise have a good day
Ni([-
Facts.
Gawr Gura>ficton
You agree?
no
@@aepht9268 why
No
Yes*
@@thebeyonders6672 thanks for the laughs