Sorry this took so long, this was because I was super unwilling to continue writing the Tiering System vids. Since attempting to writing about each one and trying to make it interesting and not repetitive was next to impossible. And after talking to both my friends, Hashi and Webcamparrot, they gave me the idea of NOT writing it because it would just be a waste of time and not many people would be interested in it. Instead, I should do a video on "What is a Tiering System?" and what it entails to use it. So if you guys REALLY want me to cover each one, I'm thinking of doing them as YT shorts and TikToks. So if this pinned message gets 500 likes, I'll do it. EDIT: I realized I said that I accidently said that Transfinite amount of dimensions were only high outerversal instead of high hyperversal. I don't see a way I can fix that but hopefully people don't get the wrong idea.
@@surfbone Hey Surfbone How do or can we know that the Dimensional tiering is correct? I ask because if you have something the size of infinity you can't have anything outside of it, also how can destroying 4 dimensions such as a space-time continuum or 4D object be more impressive than destroying infinite 3D Universes?
Authors can make their own cosmology and dimensional concepts. Such words as hyperverse, outerverse, omniverse and etc. are subjective to their Authors and those who follow it, thus, not an axiom on how dimensions work or should work because no one in reality can't comprehend anything beyond 4D, it's up to our own imagination. Be creative and make your own dimensional particles, powers and mechanics.
And ffs don't stick to overused verse names and leave it to VSB nolife nerds, be original. Or If you gotta use them anyway, make something unique with them or it's hierarchy like me. Try to answer with dimension such question as Time Space Sentience Afterlife Fate And so on
Dimensions are a simplification of higher layers of reality, if an author creates a verse which is Low Complex Multiversal, that doesn't necessarily mean that the verse has 5 dimensions, but that the layers of existence are, in total, 5. An example of this would be the Dragon Ball cosmology which has temporal lines, then each temporal line has universes, and each universe has 3 space-time continuums, therefore, the verse is technichally 6D, and each temporal line is technichally 5D even though they are, technichally, 4th dimensional objects.
** Movie Title: * * "Battle of Wits: Math vs. Wiki" **Genre: * * Science fiction, Comedy Plot: In the distant future, where technology and magic are intertwined, there is an online Wiki encyclopedia where users compare anime characters by various parameters. Wiki becomes popular, but soon its principles and methodologies are criticized by mathematicians. In the center of the plot is a young mathematician named Max, who believes that Wiki cannot be an exact science, since it is based on subjective assessments and opinions of users. He decides to prove it and creates an algorithm that can predict the results of anime characters ' battles based on mathematical principles. However, his plans are ruined when he runs into a girl named Lina, who is an active member of the Wiki. Lina is convinced that a Wiki can be an accurate science if you use the right research methods. Max and Lina decide to join forces and create a new project that will combine the principles of mathematics and Wiki. They call their project "Battle of Wits". In the" Battle of Wits", participants fight each other using mathematical principles and knowledge from the Wiki. The winner receives a reward in the form of virtual currency, which can be used to purchase items in the game. The project quickly becomes popular, and Max and Lina decide to expand it by adding new elements. They add magic-based battles to the project, as well as the ability to create your own anime characters. At the end of the film, Max and Lina realize that a "Battle of Wits" can be not only fun, but also a tool for teaching children. They decide to use the project to teach their children math and Wikis. ** Ending:** Max and Lina continue to develop the "Battle of Wits", attracting new participants and improving the project. They understand that their idea can change the world by combining math and Wiki in a new, amazing world where knowledge and skills can be used to create something great.
cool to hear about the AP and existence distinction from another person. Its all too often someone would have an idea since their character would preform a 4d feat that they would transcend a 3 dimensional character given their supposed extra spatial axis. Also the mention of the " "X" being beyond space" given content would mean any range on dimensional tiering given what exists within said verse" is refreshing.
Actually it goes this way : Someone who has X amount of AP ≠ becoming higher dimensional. But, Someone who is 12D = will have 12D AP. If the verse explicitly mentions higher dimensions having a reality>fiction interaction or uncountably infinite amount of superiority over lower ones, that's literally only when Higher D = More AP.
@@Ichigo-gp9vq Not that that idea makes any sense since we as 3D beings can't just will lower-dimensional beings out of existence. If a 2D construct was to appear on your wall you wouldn't be able to interact with it whatsoever, it would be like trying to fight your own shadow.
Although I would say I knew a decent but on my dimesional tiering this video extended my knowledge even further , I subbed and liked , keep up the great work
I know this might be a lot to ask for but can you make or reccomend covering the basics of alephs , cardinals and inncaseibale cardinals I think I might have the basics but I dont know any where on where to learn them
@@jhobmartin1689 I mostly cover that stuff in my Speed Tiering video actually. Because it was relevant to understanding Inaccessible Speed and why it's above Infinite Speed
@@okeydokeyyoisitttrueeeyes5061 you would be Outerversal if you’re beyond the concept of SPACE. Which would by virtue make you above time as time is a property of space. But it’s time is not required in order to be Outerversal. I explain this in my video
A succinct and effective distillation of some heady and complex topics. I definitely learned a lot and have been encouraged to go learn more (just watched Carl Sagan's flatland explanation and it was super interesting). Ironically, I was recommended this video from another powerscaling where they referenced you, but this video sort of debunks the point they were trying to make, funny enough. Just goes to show how counter-intuitive these concepts are.
Dimensional tiering is the type of scaling that doesn’t ignore dimensional quantities is to take into account of how many dimensions the thing occupies
This video was very helpful and great. And yes I would like if you did a video about covering up every tier like multiversal hyperversal etc and feats are considered multiversal or hyperversal.
I appreciate you replying to all these comments man, hope you can help me out as well. I just have a few questions: What would you consider top 3 top-tier dimensions? I have heard snippets of things in power-scaling. For example. People say that Superman (At base form) can neg-diff every anime character in existence because he is a type 4 multiversal being, this is because a single atom in dc contains mathematical structures like bohms, absolute infinity, cardinals, higher mathematical dimensions as stated by batman. That means its a type 4 multiverse. And type 4 multiverse contains every mathematical structure which includes Russell's and Naive's Paradoxes which are straight up above tiering. That's all according to them. So it had me a bit confused on that part on how high the scaling can go before hitting beyond limits we know. Second question, what are the different types of power-scaling you would consider that exists on the outside? For example lets look at Speed. There's version of it that I have seen like "irrelevant" which is basically where speed is so high that it isn't even a *mark* the character has as a feat. Could you give me a few examples of these? Third and most important question (About a character). What would you tier Sun Wukong at in term's of his dimensionality? Here are his greatest feats: - He took on all the armies of the heavens and they had to call the Buddha to deal with him. (As a number, he took on over 600k PANTHEONS of Gods, some of them being embodiments of 28 Constellations.) - Terrified the Dragon Gods, the same beings who could create infinite realms. - Leaped across all of Heaven from one edge to another in one go. - Shook Dimensions (Or Universe, I don't remember) while clashing with the Dragon Gods. - Sun Wukong also lifted the Mount Sumeru which carries the entire Cosmos meaning that he has either "Irrelevant" strength or infinite strength (yes I still don't know how that terminology works.) I'd appreciate it!
1. I would never use Type “Whatever the fuck” Multiverse stuff in fictional power scaling ever. It’s practically useless information that you never actually need to power scale anything. As long as you understand Dimensional Tiering, you’re good. 2. I honestly don’t understand the question 3. Idk, I would rather read Asian Mythology myself before telling you what I think of his scaling. Sorry
@@surfbone - Thanks for the quick response man. For the second question I think you made a video on that, I just noticed. I should go watch it before I continue on so that you don't need to repeat yourself hahah. As for the third question. It's a-ok if what your opinion is - isn't 100% accurate, I just wanted your personal thought on it with minimum thought. If you insist on reading the mythology, I suggest reading Journey To The West. Thank you.
Aight so what I learned from this video is that everyone is absolutely braindead on vs battle wiki. Cuz there are so many outerversal - high outerversal characters that are just chilling at high multiversal on that goofy website
how would you quantify the difference between outerversal and high outerversal in a debate? like can you give an example of a outerversal and a high outerversal character and the feats that give them that distinction?
@@lordcaprisunthe2nd outerversal and high outerversal are redundant. outerversal is just transcending dimensions high outerversal is transcending outerversal which is redundant. you can't directly scale diffrent fictional verses to one another. alot of times those characters arent even outerversal and can't even exist in the dimension/plane of existent of their own verse.
outerversal characters are people who transcends dimensional scalings infinitely and cannot be bound to any axis point or dimensions hence they transcend all 11-13 dimensions infinitely.. whereas high outerversal are multiple layers above outerversal beings but cannot be seen as them transcending outerversal beings because that will be make them Extraversal/Boundless
Well what they mean by time being the 4th dimension is that it arises from distortions in a similar manner to how spacial dimensions arise. If you distort a point, by moving it back and forth, it creates a line. If you distort the line by bending it, it bends into revealing the space of a 2d plane. If you distort the 2d plane by folding it, it folds into and reveals 3 dimensional space. 3 dimensional space distorts by warping around mass. Space is time because the calculations for momentum treat moving into the future as if it were movement in 3 dimensional space. The faster you move in space, the slower you move in time, to the same degree general relativity predicts with momentum calculations
Time, mathematically, acts exactly like how a fourth dimension would. You are right that there is no reason that it should be the 4th dimension specifically (a world of 2d flatlanders with time would have time as the 3rd dimension for example), but that's similar to how length, height and width have nothing tying them to 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension respectively. I could say that time is the first dimension, length the second, etc etc and nothing in my mathematical models would break. Physicists also apply weight to 2d or even 1d objects pretty frequently. Interesting video, but you have made some mistakes in how higher dimensionality (especially time-related higher dimensionality) works in science.
Very cool video 8:24 I think that's too little of a transcendence to grant a completely different tier. For example an endless ever increasing-d being would be superior to a merely 13-d being in a similar but lesser manner but both would be Hyperversal. Hear me out, I think a character/being/realm that is above baseline Outerversal the same way baseline Outerversal is above 3D would be just one step above baseline Outerversal. And another character who sees that the same way a baseline Outerversal would see an 3d is one step above Outerversal of that being. Think of it like an endless staircase, the first step is baseline Outerversal, beyond concept of dimensions, and every step transcends the step below the same way baseline Outerversal transcends 3D. With this tiering even the infinite-th step of this staircase would still be Outerversal, very high into Outerversal, and a High Outerversal would be something that is beyond this staircase and even its concept all together and is completely inaccessible to it. What do you think?
@@404IsFodderaliens are a infinite cardinal number that size is so great(big) that’s it unchangable no matter what you do or try to change through transformation and is equal to the total of cardinals below it which would be in this case outerversal which would just be high 1-B without further context if it beyond beyond alll dimensions
Below D: innerversal Negitive D : low hypoversal - hypoversal 0 D: dot LVL 1D : point lvl 2d: plane lvl 3d : below human - high uni 4d : uni + - multi + 5d : low comp multi 6d - 9d : comp multi 10 d - 11d : high comp multi 12d + : hyperversal Infinite D : high hyper
i came across two articles. the first article read, "In quantum mechanics, the quantum state of the physical system lives in an infinite-dimensional hilbert space and can be written in terms of two different bases, the position basis (uncountably infinite) and the energy basis (countably infinite). apparently, the two bases are of different cardinalities, which violates a theorem in linear algebra that all bases of a vector space must be of the same cardinality. how to explain this confusion? the second article read, "a hilbert space need not be infinite-dimensional as tilper observed. however, if a hilbert space is infinite-dimensional, then it is uncountable-dimensional; in fact, it has dimension at least 2ℵ0. incidentally, it turns out that this may be strictly bigger than ℵ1! do you agree? and would that make ℵ0 - hyperversal, ℵ1 - low outerversal, and an infinite-dimensional hilbert space (2ℵ0) - outerversal+? did i conflate article 1 with article 2 or even worse?
I go over it a bit in my Speed Tiering video. But Aleph Null is basically just the smallest set of infinity. Or in simpler terms, the “infinity” that we all know and love, the one we refer to all the time is Aleph Null.
What do you do if for example character A is multiversal and their muktiverse has 11 dimensional layers, but Character B scales to a higher plane of existence said to be greater than the multiverse but is only 6D?
This is because the mutilverse has no mentions of infinte dimensions or being infinite in size and have dimensions that are above infinite dimensional but does not transcend it. This would only make the multiverse high complex multiversal or high 11d and if a character is beyond this or exist in a higher plane of reality then they are low 12d or 12d
Wait, so if a 3d render of Sonic faught a sonic drawn in 2D space Does the 3D Sonic absolutely stomp the 2D one? Does this scaling apply to characters from different Mediums, or is it all based on feats?
You’re wrong about Hilbert Space. It’s not referring to an infinite number of Euclidean dimensions or Eudclidean space (physical space), which by definition, must be finite, it’s referring to the total number of quantum wave functions of the universe or a system. Mathematicians refer to the information of a system as a space. For example, let’s say we have an object, like an apple. It’s position would consist of 3 dimensions. If it’s moving, that would include another 3 dimensions, and if it has an orientation, that’s another 3 dimensions, and so on.
So low outer is aleph 1 dimensional as it cannot be accessed by just stacking infinite amount of infinite dimensional structures right? And outerversal would be aleph 2 dimensional because of transcending low outer in the similar manner as to how low outer transcends high hyper
What level would this character be? He exists in a plane that is completely cut off from the Multiverse and the only way of getting to the multiverse is through portals and teleportation. The plane he lives in is infinite dimensional since it is unbound from all Multiversal Concepts. The character also has the destructive capabilities of annihilating entire infinite universes with no effort and can even transport himself to the fourth wall.
for me, it's high hyperversal since infinite dimensions alongside having metafiction feats For the unbounded from all Multiversal concepts, dunno maybe outer but 'He' could exist in a realm with a higher form of those concepts (kinda like how my verse's concepts would be.... which might cause my verse to be wanked alot. Example: The Multiverse's concepts > The Entire universe's concepts > The universe's concepts > The the uncountable amounts of infinite observable universes' concepts)
Not Type 0 but not Utility Omnipotent... A bit lower... 7th Dimension of Existence on the low end of True Conceptual. I'm using my own scaling. So unless your character can handle Abolute Concepts, Endless, Abstract, Non Quantifiable, and Concept Breaks... Then, creating and destroying Type 4 Multiversal objects are very common.
Your character is a high hyperversal-low outerversal+ being the reason being is your character exist in a plane that is infinite dimensions(Hilbert space) which is high hyperversal. The reason why he would be low outerversal is because he is inbound by the concept of dimensionality and it’s orders which is high hyperversal as well meaning him low outerversal. However the problem is you lack the context of what concept your multiverse and infinite universes contain and are your universes Infinte in size and have r>f transcendence. You also didn’t include nothing above your multiverse that your verse contains such as a complex multiverse or a realm of inf multiverses combines with each mutilverse contains it being beyond the inf universe branch which at best without any context or further additional concepts would be infinite 5d-6d at max since each multiverse is a 5d concept that transcends the 4d concept a inf amount times which in your case would be the infinite universes since 1 universes would have space and time which is a 3 spatial dimension(space) +1 regular dimension(time) which equals 4d. 1 universe: 4d Inf universe branch: infinite 4d Multiverse: 5d The plane: high 12d Your character: low 1-A+ with immsurable speed and metafictional hax
So where would the characters scale that can manipulate/destroy abstract concepts/laws(eg: day/night, identity/destiny, dream/reality, light/darkness, etc) with hax or brute force? And also those who totally ignore the concepts (eg: death, time, distence, etc)?
can someone help me? if i have 1 character that transcends dimensions what scale would he have? or if this character only transcends space or only time? and all together?
@browdoe Define Dimensions to Omnipotence (God Creator). To Nirvana, a step above God Creator. To Origin, for none is above it. Dimensions still exist because they are mathematical. Omniscience of the true Akashic Records can model all, even that of fiction itself. Beyond beyond all Dimensions is incorrect... Because of Origin.
Aren't all anime character actually 2d but in the world of fiction are in their own dimensions? For example anything written on a piece if paper should be actually 2d to us but to then it's 3d?
good video, but I was hoping you would go over how different dimensional characters would react to one another. For an example, can a 3D character even see a 4D character? And what can a 4D character do to a 3D character? Are there any things which they are able to do to the 3D character, solely because they're higher in dimensionality? And this one is a bit specific, but if a character is literally the embodiment of the concept of Space, does that mean they're at most Low Outerversal because they're not above Space?
@@Vitou777 1: can a 3d character see a 4d character? Yes though they would have to be on the same dimensional plane to be seen but we would not truly see them for what they are. We would not be able to see them if they were in their 4 dimension plane and none of it overlapped with our 3d plane like how they could not see the 3d sphere until he went into the 2 dimensional plane. 2:what can 4d character do to a 3d character. From my understanding most likely being able to grab things that are inside of them like a 3d character could do to a 2d character. Another thing is probably move them though the 4th dimension to by pass a Door or wall. 3:embodiment of space. depends on what they can actually do but either they would be high hyperversal as they aren't beyond dimensions
@@godversesans5152 oh thank you, those all make sense. And about the character, she's described as being the embodiment of "all dimensions and matter to exist.". I'm writing a fanfiction with her and I basically made it so she's everywhere at once and gave her the ability to materialize her body literally anywhere, and she can do it as much as she wants, so there could be like a billion of her if she wants. Even when a character tried to run away from her by opening a portal to a different dimension, she just came out of that portal and said that those portals are also a part of her lol. And she can also increase and decrease her dimensionality at will. Given all of that, I imagined her to be Low Outerversal, since she's infinite dimensional.
Got a question what if someone was using a Transdimensional device to search for someone around the infinite array of dimensions. Where would that scale to as it Transdimensional and contains infinite arrays of dimensions which have no end.
@@_Legion__ depends. If there are an infinite amount of dimensions and you transcend the top layer, then that's still high hyper. Low outer by definition is transcending any extensions of dimensionality. It's very vague. Outer means transcending the concepts of dimensionality. At least if you're using VSBW tiering. CSAP>VSBW in terms of scaling.
@@starflatinum683 True that makes sense Ty I agree with CSAP > Vsbattle considering it works alot better when it comes to outer and hyperversal tiering.
Old video but I don’t like how platonic concepts were brought up for Outerversal scaling, as it’d only take a few more minutes to explain in the video. Aside from that good video.
Hey Surfbone! Amazing Analytical video you did here. Realizing that your views differ from the power scale community, I have a request for you. May you please make Your Own Power Tier Scale from 0 Dimension and Human level to Universal, Outerversal and Boundless? Can you please make one with YOUR rules, explanations and understanding?
I have a question if a character was able to destroy an infinite multiverse by destroying infinite timelines from every universe in that infinite multiverse what dimension would they be or would that mean that character is beyond infinite dimensions? (I ask because some character's can be considered around 7 dimensional or something because of being able to destroy infinite timelines from multiple universe's at the same time without even discovering a hyperverse or something where it could be possible to destroy infinite dimensions instead of infinite timelines from multiple universe's)
It's difficult to understand what that means unless you mean the infinite multiverse has infinite timelines and hierarchy or something so if you don't mind could you provider an example of how it could be possible for a infinite multiverse to be considered infinite dimensional
That doesn't quite answer what I was asking I was asking if a multiverse can be beyond the concept of dimensions/infinite dimensional and if it can what are the requirements to prove it
@@christianwhite8877 that depends on what is given friend. For eg, a realm is beyond the concept of space-time/dimensionality, it automatically makes the realm outerversal even if the Cosmo isn't reaching it. In the same way, unless and until stated that a multiverse is of higher dimensions, or if it views the lower layer as fiction or something which could make the higher layers as higher dimensions, then even the infinite multiverse you're referring to will still be 4D. Also, ig you're referring to xeno Goku from being able to destroy infinite timeline. Does this answer your question ?
So is the reason destroying a timeline is often considered a 4d feat kinda like how a a cube is infinitely many squares on a line so infinite 3d time snapshots could be portrayed as on a line to create a tesseract or am I just overthinking things
Boundless = not bound by anything (which doesn’t exist in fiction unless you’re talking about the VSB tier) Irrelevant layers into Boundless = people talking out of their ass, there’s not even a consensus of what a “layer” constitutes Absolute Infinity = Cantor’s view of Infinity AKA Omnipotence (also doesn’t exist in fiction)
Okay so let's say an invite dimensional universe is the size of a soccer ball on the outside but still infinitely big on the inside. If a character can destroy such an infinite dimensional object,does that make said character beyond infinite dimensional? What if a being was stronger than infinite sets of infinite dimensional universes? Is this a way to scale beyond omnipotence?
Really does depend on the context of the story being told. For example, if its a magic type story and that 3D ball with an infinite sized universe or such inside was created by someone, and another person destroys it, it could just mean that the person that destroyed it is stronger than the spell. Usually when infinite universe types of deals are shown to be created by a 3D person of finite power, all you have to do is overpower their creation power to destroy their creation
@@emastermet609 . Actually infinite dimensional. Also all it's height, width, depth, and so on are infinite in size so it takes up infinite space in multiple ways at the same time. Although all of those infinite sets of infinite space spread through an infinite number of directions are all contained within a 3D small sized ball shape. So with infinite layers of infinite strength, a character could maybe crush it in their hands.
Me when high hyper with infinite dimensions is only high hyper when there’s evidence of higher dimensions that all transcend one another, otherwise it’d just be considered multi+
you explain the notion of 3d and 4d and the difference, and that a character can have 3d depth but 4d power scaling, but never explain.. how. at least, not that i could pick up
Spatial Dimensionality refers to the Geometrical Shape of the Object such as the X, Y and Z Axis and the Space the Object occupies while Temporal Dimensionality refers to the Time perspective of these said objects like a Linear Timeline which uses the Past, Present and Future
I don't understand the qualifications for low outerversal, obviously something like Sugoroku space or the world of void aren't outerversal places but if there is no space and time at all how do you deal with that
I think the analysis of dimensions being higher or lower is flawed. Being “larger” does not necessarily make a character stronger overall. If we use 2D and 3D as our frames on reference, I don’t believe a cube is actually stronger than a square, instead it would seem intuitive that a square would be immune to any attack from a cube by virtue of existing on a lower dimension. Thus lower dimensions transcends higher dimensions in the same way that higher dimensions supposedly transcend lower ones.
unless the higher dimensional beings that can go to lower dimension can even go there also in the end the one who can interact with and harm x dimension wins
I have a question surfbone will you answer please ?thank you in advance If an object is infinte layered dimension and transcends space and time concepts will it still be low outer
Is it possible to negate durability of a higher dimensional being? If you can negate durability on the 0th dimension, wouldn't that mean you can negate every dimension?
0 dimension is the lowest possible dimension. You would be below a 1d being, which is infinitely below a 2d being, which would be infinitely below a human.
@@voidtempering8700 yes but since durability on the atomic level can be unchecked that means that having the properties of lower-dimensional/quantum manipulation + durability negation can be used as a way to play around the tiering system for certain characters with that hax
@@blaster.m1943 Why are you Equating lower-dimensionality with quantum manipulation? Unless a Hax is stated to ignore, or be able to harm a being that is higher-dimensional, it can't be used for that.
@@voidtempering8700 because of the planck scale, it should be 2D and in theory being able to negate durability on a lower dimension should give stat advantages through property scaling
Bro thats so simple, it depends on how strong the ability is if you can affect higher dimensions, if you can! theres no way ur ability to negate 0d only can negate 1d, like its only 0d. Im saying you cant loop the tiering system
I'm gonna write out a panel for Thor. Tell me where this scales him please. "The Collector boasted of this universe being contained within a tesseract, I inhabit the material world, and as such know but the mere shadow of such a construct... Yet, I am also a god and thus my nature is not bound by the merely perceptible. My divinity transcends dimensions and so might my corporeal form... if I can but determine where lie the seams and jointures of the tesseract...then in theory my escape is a simple matter." Thor then uses his finger to open a portal and leave. By this very video this puts Thor outerversal, but I'd like to know for sure. He has several showings of "faster than light, faster than all known laws of man" and another where he states he's "not bound by mortal laws." "Space and time weave at Thor's command." And casually hops dimensions lol. I'm trying to learn proper scaling. Also your discord link isn't working.
Might be outerversal depending on how many higher dimensions exist in marvel, however most “transcends dimensions” usually refer to higher dimensional stuff. So basically it all depends on the context.
Genuine question here for anyone who comes across this. I foolishly decided to try a vs match in which the combatants scaled FAR beyond what I initially thought. Now I'm comparing one combatant, who's 100 times universal, to another guy who's 9th dimensional. I have to assume the 9th dimensional guy is stronger, but I'm still pretty lost in dimensional tiering and genuinely can't tell how 100 times universal compares to 9th dimensional. Is it close? Is the 9D guy infinite levels of infinity more powerful? Is 100 times universal actually the more impressive feat? These are questions I've spent the past few hours trying to answer, so a little help would be appreciated.
It’s not even close. So universes are typically 4D constructs and even if he’s 100 times stronger than that, let’s be generous and say that makes it so he can destroy 100 4D constructs now. And now you’re pitting that dude up against a 9D being. The difference between dimensions is beyond an infinite difference. Hence the whole “you can’t stack Infinite 2D squares and get a 3D cube.” So imagine that that you can’t get infinite 2D to get to 3D which is only ONE DIMENSIONAL DIFFERENCE, now compare a 4D being to 9D being. Last time I checked 5 is greater than 1.
Would something or someone that transcends dimensions be labeled as outerversal? This is mostly pertaining to dragon ball as I keep seeing videos and people saying Goku is outerversal. Reasons include heaven transcending dimensions, Jirens power transcending time itself, and goku moving in the world of void which apparently means he has inaccessible speed due to moving in 0 time as there’s no time in the world of void. (Apparently)
This Dragonball wank is honestly getting out of hand because it’s people assuming the highest end interpretation to get the best results even if it means throwing away any kind of consistency. But no something just “transcending dimensions” by itself is not even close to Outerversal. Like how many dimensions is it transcending? Even if there was infinite, that only be High Hyperversal. And people I swear just don’t understand what context is when it comes to Jiren fighting Hit, it’s honestly ridiculous.
@@surfbone A question. The Dragon Ball Universe was stated to have a Hierarchy of Infinite Dimensions meaning it was a Hyperverse. Several statements about this from Staff supports this and they are more reliable than Toriyama. Now my question is, if Heaven is transcending this is it a Outverse?. An Outverse is a realm transcending reality to sum it up am I correct? Transcending the concepts of dimensionality is Outer and wasn’t Heaven transcending this? Also, what do you mean by concept of dimensionality?
@@captainrantman3892 “Several statements from Staff” I really hope you’re not citing the TWITTER statements from Koyama Lol. Also I never found Toriyama to be reliable anyway due of his horrendously and notoriously terrible memory. But both instances would fall under Death of the Author anyway. Nothing in the main source material actually backs up almost anything Koyama said on Twitter and I honestly feel bad so many people asked him such leading questions just so a bunch of them can run around and say “Look Guys, Koyama said backs up my scale that states this about the cosmology” despite nothing in the series actually supporting it.
I'm a little confused, so if a 4th dimensional being has nothing to do with time. Would they still be infinitely faster than a 3rd dimensional being, or object? Is this how we measure infinite speed? Edit: Ok so I did some research, apparently dimensional tearing doesn't actually measure speed, it just closes the distance shorter to that being. You know how some video games you're able to take shortcuts in races but other racers can't, that's how it works. You're not fast or you're just closer to the place you want to be. If a third and fourth dimensional being had the same speed, the fourth dimensional being would still be 'Faster' but only because the end goal is closer.
Ok so I did some research, apparently dimensional tearing doesn't actually measure speed, it just closes the distance shorter to that being. You know how some video games you're able to take shortcuts in races but other racers can't, that's how it works. You're not fast or you're just closer to the place you want to be. If a third and fourth dimensional being had the same speed, the fourth dimensional being would still be 'Faster' but only because the end goal is closer.
So im still a bit confused here. A character from a video game and I quote is "born from the branches of time". A person claims this makes them a "4D creature" but you just explained the 4th dimension isnt time. So would this character still be 3D?
Given that 12 Tier (All Fiction), 11 Tier (IRL), and up to 0 Tier (Axiom+) are all mathematical... Yes. The categorical details are... Fiction of Fiction All Fiction Fiction in Real Life Real Life Universal Outer Worldly Outer Realms Outer Multiversal Outer "Beginning and End" Eternal Conceptual Absolute Will Soul God Soul Omnipotence (The Creator and the Destroyer) Nirvana Finally, Origin. Then, all of this returns to Origin in order to begin in a new cycle. By the time one reaches Omnipotence. Axiom+ is already surpassed. As there is now further than Origin. Why?... Because like Fiction. I can close all of these dimensions, like a book on the final page. Origin is Beyond All. It's like a loop. This helps to explain how someone like Sun Wu Kong can reach the level of Buddha from starting as a mortal. There is no higher than Origin. Even in the realm of fiction. Someone can only connect to Origin, and very few are one with Origin. Existence, non-existence, and all outside of existence, as one... Is a step below Origin. Nirvana is Existence. Void is outside of existence. And Yog Sothoth oversees non-existence. (As an example). There is one other... Absolute Nothingness... A unique key to Origin and one half of Absolute Existence. The balance of the two mended into one will open the Gate into the Core of Origin... ... ... That's where "I" am.
So If a verse caps at 6d for example and the creator of the verse transcends it (concept of space and time) would the creator be complex multiversal or outerversal?
He would more likely be Outerversal. But you gotta keep in mind that, Context and consistency matters, so you gotta make sure that him being that powerful would make the series more consistent if it were to be true and that the statements line up that he’s above the concept of space.
@@surfbone Oh alright got it, so the amount of dimensions a verse has doesnt really prevent it from going all the way to outer and above? Unless its inconsistent and such
Sorry this took so long, this was because I was super unwilling to continue writing the Tiering System vids. Since attempting to writing about each one and trying to make it interesting and not repetitive was next to impossible. And after talking to both my friends, Hashi and Webcamparrot, they gave me the idea of NOT writing it because it would just be a waste of time and not many people would be interested in it. Instead, I should do a video on "What is a Tiering System?" and what it entails to use it. So if you guys REALLY want me to cover each one, I'm thinking of doing them as YT shorts and TikToks. So if this pinned message gets 500 likes, I'll do it.
EDIT: I realized I said that I accidently said that Transfinite amount of dimensions were only high outerversal instead of high hyperversal. I don't see a way I can fix that but hopefully people don't get the wrong idea.
Don't Care + Ratio
@@hashiondiscord8540 I hate you, Counter Ratio
@@surfbone your discord isn’t working
Take as long as you need man
@@surfbone Hey Surfbone How do or can we know that the Dimensional tiering is correct? I ask because if you have something the size of infinity you can't have anything outside of it, also how can destroying 4 dimensions such as a space-time continuum or 4D object be more impressive than destroying infinite 3D Universes?
For anyone wondering this video uses the Character Stats and Profiles Wiki Tiering system
You’re a perfect teacher for any versus show or debater
Nah
@@FahimusAlimus ?
I’ll love to learn of my weird scaling stuff this was great 👍
@Harrish Romero yeah, check my comment.
@Harrish Romero debunking the vid
Authors can make their own cosmology and dimensional concepts. Such words as hyperverse, outerverse, omniverse and etc. are subjective to their Authors and those who follow it, thus, not an axiom on how dimensions work or should work because no one in reality can't comprehend anything beyond 4D, it's up to our own imagination.
Be creative and make your own dimensional particles, powers and mechanics.
And ffs don't stick to overused verse names and leave it to VSB nolife nerds, be original. Or If you gotta use them anyway, make something unique with them or it's hierarchy like me.
Try to answer with dimension such question as
Time
Space
Sentience
Afterlife
Fate
And so on
what @@OscuroProductions
Dimensions are a simplification of higher layers of reality, if an author creates a verse which is Low Complex Multiversal, that doesn't necessarily mean that the verse has 5 dimensions, but that the layers of existence are, in total, 5.
An example of this would be the Dragon Ball cosmology which has temporal lines, then each temporal line has universes, and each universe has 3 space-time continuums, therefore, the verse is technichally 6D, and each temporal line is technichally 5D even though they are, technichally, 4th dimensional objects.
So my channel’s multiverse could feature as many dimensions as i want?
@@brainiacworld71yeah
Can't wait for the next video!! Hopefully you can pump it out quickly!
Yeah…
I am not to big of a powerscaler but this video did help alot
Honestly your videos are helping me keep up with people I'm on a debating group chat with,it ain't easy
** Movie Title: * * "Battle of Wits: Math vs. Wiki"
**Genre: * * Science fiction, Comedy
Plot:
In the distant future, where technology and magic are intertwined, there is an online Wiki encyclopedia where users compare anime characters by various parameters. Wiki becomes popular, but soon its principles and methodologies are criticized by mathematicians.
In the center of the plot is a young mathematician named Max, who believes that Wiki cannot be an exact science, since it is based on subjective assessments and opinions of users. He decides to prove it and creates an algorithm that can predict the results of anime characters ' battles based on mathematical principles.
However, his plans are ruined when he runs into a girl named Lina, who is an active member of the Wiki. Lina is convinced that a Wiki can be an accurate science if you use the right research methods.
Max and Lina decide to join forces and create a new project that will combine the principles of mathematics and Wiki. They call their project "Battle of Wits".
In the" Battle of Wits", participants fight each other using mathematical principles and knowledge from the Wiki. The winner receives a reward in the form of virtual currency, which can be used to purchase items in the game.
The project quickly becomes popular, and Max and Lina decide to expand it by adding new elements. They add magic-based battles to the project, as well as the ability to create your own anime characters.
At the end of the film, Max and Lina realize that a "Battle of Wits" can be not only fun, but also a tool for teaching children. They decide to use the project to teach their children math and Wikis.
** Ending:**
Max and Lina continue to develop the "Battle of Wits", attracting new participants and improving the project. They understand that their idea can change the world by combining math and Wiki in a new, amazing world where knowledge and skills can be used to create something great.
Wow, my friend, your explanation is beautiful, detailed and incredibly understandable
cool to hear about the AP and existence distinction from another person. Its all too often someone would have an idea since their character would preform a 4d feat that they would transcend a 3 dimensional character given their supposed extra spatial axis. Also the mention of the " "X" being beyond space" given content would mean any range on dimensional tiering given what exists within said verse" is refreshing.
Actually it goes this way :
Someone who has X amount of AP ≠ becoming higher dimensional. But,
Someone who is 12D = will have 12D AP.
If the verse explicitly mentions higher dimensions having a reality>fiction interaction or uncountably infinite amount of superiority over lower ones, that's literally only when Higher D = More AP.
@@Ichigo-gp9vq yep I don't disagree with that I just made a point of 4d AP not having anything to do with a sort of existential level.
@@whataredoge7129 Yeah..There are smurf characters too who are like tier 3 but have tier 1 AP and Hax feats.
@@Ichigo-gp9vq Not that that idea makes any sense since we as 3D beings can't just will lower-dimensional beings out of existence. If a 2D construct was to appear on your wall you wouldn't be able to interact with it whatsoever, it would be like trying to fight your own shadow.
@@ohno3736 but we can see them which they can't.
*Thanks my dude! This cleared up a TON!*
These videos are helping me more than all the time ive spent trying to learn and get into powerscalling
Great job man✌❤
@Harrish Romero 🤡
@harrishromero6447🤡
This is an excellent video I myself use as the basis for my own power scaling. Good Work!
Although I would say I knew a decent but on my dimesional tiering this video extended my knowledge even further , I subbed and liked , keep up the great work
I know this might be a lot to ask for but can you make or reccomend covering the basics of alephs , cardinals and inncaseibale cardinals I think I might have the basics but I dont know any where on where to learn them
@@jhobmartin1689 I mostly cover that stuff in my Speed Tiering video actually. Because it was relevant to understanding Inaccessible Speed and why it's above Infinite Speed
@@surfbone bro surfbone, does being beyond the concept of TIME AND SPACE scale you to outerversal?
@@okeydokeyyoisitttrueeeyes5061 you would be Outerversal if you’re beyond the concept of SPACE. Which would by virtue make you above time as time is a property of space. But it’s time is not required in order to be Outerversal. I explain this in my video
@@surfbone ah ok
A succinct and effective distillation of some heady and complex topics. I definitely learned a lot and have been encouraged to go learn more (just watched Carl Sagan's flatland explanation and it was super interesting). Ironically, I was recommended this video from another powerscaling where they referenced you, but this video sort of debunks the point they were trying to make, funny enough. Just goes to show how counter-intuitive these concepts are.
Dimensional tiering is the type of scaling that doesn’t ignore dimensional quantities is to take into account of how many dimensions the thing occupies
This video was very helpful and great. And yes I would like if you did a video about covering up every tier like multiversal hyperversal etc and feats are considered multiversal or hyperversal.
I'm going to try and understand this again if my head doesn't think about school works anymore, and if I'm done.
Dimensional power scaling really is not made by weird people, if you look deeper it is all based off of quantum mechanics and the Tegmark scale.
When was dimensions ever in tegmark scaling
@@cellomovious_former it’s in string theory
@@Sinbishopoflust Are you an utter brainless monkey?
wierd people ❌
Nerds ✅
I appreciate you replying to all these comments man, hope you can help me out as well. I just have a few questions:
What would you consider top 3 top-tier dimensions? I have heard snippets of things in power-scaling.
For example. People say that Superman (At base form) can neg-diff every anime character in existence because he is a type 4 multiversal being, this is because a single atom in dc contains mathematical structures like bohms, absolute infinity, cardinals, higher mathematical dimensions as stated by batman.
That means its a type 4 multiverse. And type 4 multiverse contains every mathematical structure which includes Russell's and Naive's Paradoxes which are straight up above tiering.
That's all according to them. So it had me a bit confused on that part on how high the scaling can go before hitting beyond limits we know.
Second question, what are the different types of power-scaling you would consider that exists on the outside? For example lets look at Speed. There's version of it that I have seen like "irrelevant" which is basically where speed is so high that it isn't even a *mark* the character has as a feat. Could you give me a few examples of these?
Third and most important question (About a character). What would you tier Sun Wukong at in term's of his dimensionality?
Here are his greatest feats:
- He took on all the armies of the heavens and they had to call the Buddha to deal with him. (As a number, he took on over 600k PANTHEONS of Gods, some of them being embodiments of 28 Constellations.)
- Terrified the Dragon Gods, the same beings who could create infinite realms.
- Leaped across all of Heaven from one edge to another in one go.
- Shook Dimensions (Or Universe, I don't remember) while clashing with the Dragon Gods.
- Sun Wukong also lifted the Mount Sumeru which carries the entire Cosmos meaning that he has either "Irrelevant" strength or infinite strength (yes I still don't know how that terminology works.)
I'd appreciate it!
1. I would never use Type “Whatever the fuck” Multiverse stuff in fictional power scaling ever. It’s practically useless information that you never actually need to power scale anything. As long as you understand Dimensional Tiering, you’re good.
2. I honestly don’t understand the question
3. Idk, I would rather read Asian Mythology myself before telling you what I think of his scaling. Sorry
@@surfbone - Thanks for the quick response man.
For the second question I think you made a video on that, I just noticed. I should go watch it before I continue on so that you don't need to repeat yourself hahah.
As for the third question. It's a-ok if what your opinion is - isn't 100% accurate, I just wanted your personal thought on it with minimum thought. If you insist on reading the mythology, I suggest reading Journey To The West.
Thank you.
Surfbone posting heat as usual 🔥🔥🔥
wow....dropped out of college to scale fictional characters. beautiful
Bros most likely more successful than you
Fr@@ClassicalAlwayslol
And you dropped out this here 🧠
That’s sad lol
@@belkYT nah
I learned about you through the Seth drama and I have to say your criminally underrated.
nice vid, finally understood the infinte 3D statement
This video is awesome, thanks for this
This is the best video on this subject.
Aight so what I learned from this video is that everyone is absolutely braindead on vs battle wiki. Cuz there are so many outerversal - high outerversal characters that are just chilling at high multiversal on that goofy website
Like which characters
how would you quantify the difference between outerversal and high outerversal in a debate? like can you give an example of a outerversal and a high outerversal character and the feats that give them that distinction?
High outer and outer in this video interpertation right ?
High outerversal transcends the aleph hierarchy while outerversal is aleph 2 and higher
@@lordcaprisunthe2nd outerversal and high outerversal are redundant.
outerversal is just transcending dimensions
high outerversal is transcending outerversal which is redundant.
you can't directly scale diffrent fictional verses to one another.
alot of times those characters arent even outerversal and can't even exist in the dimension/plane of existent of their own verse.
outerversal characters are people who transcends dimensional scalings infinitely and cannot be bound to any axis point or dimensions hence they transcend all 11-13 dimensions infinitely.. whereas high outerversal are multiple layers above outerversal beings but cannot be seen as them transcending outerversal beings because that will be make them Extraversal/Boundless
yo Wurfbone, can ya make a vid about like concepts specifically? i have trouble understanding the platonic concepts and stuff
Cosmic Armor Surfbone doesn't exist he can't hurt you
Cosmic Armor Surfbone:
the story of surfbone
Most anime fanboys don’t even know how dimensions know,and they still think they’re based,good you actually did this video
Well what they mean by time being the 4th dimension is that it arises from distortions in a similar manner to how spacial dimensions arise. If you distort a point, by moving it back and forth, it creates a line. If you distort the line by bending it, it bends into revealing the space of a 2d plane. If you distort the 2d plane by folding it, it folds into and reveals 3 dimensional space. 3 dimensional space distorts by warping around mass. Space is time because the calculations for momentum treat moving into the future as if it were movement in 3 dimensional space. The faster you move in space, the slower you move in time, to the same degree general relativity predicts with momentum calculations
Bro, I like the Cosmic Armor Superman reference at the thumbnail
Time, mathematically, acts exactly like how a fourth dimension would. You are right that there is no reason that it should be the 4th dimension specifically (a world of 2d flatlanders with time would have time as the 3rd dimension for example), but that's similar to how length, height and width have nothing tying them to 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension respectively. I could say that time is the first dimension, length the second, etc etc and nothing in my mathematical models would break. Physicists also apply weight to 2d or even 1d objects pretty frequently.
Interesting video, but you have made some mistakes in how higher dimensionality (especially time-related higher dimensionality) works in science.
I clocked out at low outerversal but good vid 👍🏾
so your not really outerversal
Very cool video 8:24 I think that's too little of a transcendence to grant a completely different tier. For example an endless ever increasing-d being would be superior to a merely 13-d being in a similar but lesser manner but both would be Hyperversal.
Hear me out, I think a character/being/realm that is above baseline Outerversal the same way baseline Outerversal is above 3D would be just one step above baseline Outerversal. And another character who sees that the same way a baseline Outerversal would see an 3d is one step above Outerversal of that being.
Think of it like an endless staircase, the first step is baseline Outerversal, beyond concept of dimensions, and every step transcends the step below the same way baseline Outerversal transcends 3D. With this tiering even the infinite-th step of this staircase would still be Outerversal, very high into Outerversal, and a High Outerversal would be something that is beyond this staircase and even its concept all together and is completely inaccessible to it.
What do you think?
And that’s what aleph levels do (cardinality numbers)
@@lordcaprisunthe2nd what are alephs?
@@404IsFodderaliens are a infinite cardinal number that size is so great(big) that’s it unchangable no matter what you do or try to change through transformation and is equal to the total of cardinals below it which would be in this case outerversal which would just be high 1-B without further context if it beyond beyond alll dimensions
the difference between the first episode of this seriesto this one is crazy
I watched this video for the sole reason that the thumbnail is a C.A.S panel
Below D: innerversal
Negitive D : low hypoversal - hypoversal
0 D: dot LVL
1D : point lvl
2d: plane lvl
3d : below human - high uni
4d : uni + - multi +
5d : low comp multi
6d - 9d : comp multi
10 d - 11d : high comp multi
12d + : hyperversal
Infinite D : high hyper
2:13 Why the frick does that stickman have balls?
i came across two articles. the first article read, "In quantum mechanics, the quantum state of the physical system lives in an infinite-dimensional hilbert space and can be written in terms of two different bases, the position basis (uncountably infinite) and the energy basis (countably infinite). apparently, the two bases are of different cardinalities, which violates a theorem in linear algebra that all bases of a vector space must be of the same cardinality. how to explain this confusion?
the second article read, "a hilbert space need not be infinite-dimensional as tilper observed. however, if a hilbert space is infinite-dimensional, then it is uncountable-dimensional; in fact, it has dimension at least 2ℵ0. incidentally, it turns out that this may be strictly bigger than ℵ1!
do you agree? and would that make ℵ0 - hyperversal, ℵ1 - low outerversal, and an infinite-dimensional hilbert space (2ℵ0) - outerversal+?
did i conflate article 1 with article 2 or even worse?
That's a great vid but could you, perhaps explain abt aleph null a little more if possible ? It's a little complex to understand that
I go over it a bit in my Speed Tiering video. But Aleph Null is basically just the smallest set of infinity. Or in simpler terms, the “infinity” that we all know and love, the one we refer to all the time is Aleph Null.
@@surfbone oh okay got, thank you
I have a question. Is Space-Time for 4d or Outer?
Space-Time is 4D. The concept of space would be Outer, as I explained in the video
@@surfbone 👍 ok, thanks for answering my question.
Amazing video! You get my like & subscription.
What do you do if for example character A is multiversal and their muktiverse has 11 dimensional layers, but Character B scales to a higher plane of existence said to be greater than the multiverse but is only 6D?
thats because a lot of authors don't even directly follow the dimensional theory.
This is because the mutilverse has no mentions of infinte dimensions or being infinite in size and have dimensions that are above infinite dimensional but does not transcend it. This would only make the multiverse high complex multiversal or high 11d and if a character is beyond this or exist in a higher plane of reality then they are low 12d or 12d
I feel How hard it would have been for you to script the vedio and I think so shorts will be good way to cover those topics.
Finally
Your the best teacher
Do you know what teir creating every concept would scale to?
this is including the concepts dimensions, power and speed
Baseline Outerverse level.
So, nobody's gonna talk about the Cosmic armor superman-inspired thumbnail?
Wait, so if a 3d render of Sonic faught a sonic drawn in 2D space
Does the 3D Sonic absolutely stomp the 2D one?
Does this scaling apply to characters from different Mediums, or is it all based on feats?
A 3D is higher that 2D. 2D can’t interact with 3D, but 3D can interact with 2D. That being said, 3D wins
You’re wrong about Hilbert Space. It’s not referring to an infinite number of Euclidean dimensions or Eudclidean space (physical space), which by definition, must be finite, it’s referring to the total number of quantum wave functions of the universe or a system. Mathematicians refer to the information of a system as a space. For example, let’s say we have an object, like an apple. It’s position would consist of 3 dimensions. If it’s moving, that would include another 3 dimensions, and if it has an orientation, that’s another 3 dimensions, and so on.
So low outer is aleph 1 dimensional as it cannot be accessed by just stacking infinite amount of infinite dimensional structures right? And outerversal would be aleph 2 dimensional because of transcending low outer in the similar manner as to how low outer transcends high hyper
No and no, I never once claimed any of these. That’s how VSB tiers them
@@surfbone ok seems fair
@@surfbone so csap outer > vsbw outer right ?
@@ifrit220 yessir
@@surfbone is mathematical scaling possible in csap
thumbs up to the editor
I edited it Lol, I've edited all my videos
What level would this character be?
He exists in a plane that is completely cut off from the Multiverse and the only way of getting to the multiverse is through portals and teleportation. The plane he lives in is infinite dimensional since it is unbound from all Multiversal Concepts. The character also has the destructive capabilities of annihilating entire infinite universes with no effort and can even transport himself to the fourth wall.
Low outer for: Infinite dimensions + not being bound by usual concepts
for me, it's high hyperversal since infinite dimensions alongside having metafiction feats
For the unbounded from all Multiversal concepts, dunno maybe outer but 'He' could exist in a realm with a higher form of those concepts (kinda like how my verse's concepts would be.... which might cause my verse to be wanked alot. Example: The Multiverse's concepts > The Entire universe's concepts > The universe's concepts > The the uncountable amounts of infinite observable universes' concepts)
Not Type 0 but not Utility Omnipotent... A bit lower... 7th Dimension of Existence on the low end of True Conceptual.
I'm using my own scaling. So unless your character can handle Abolute Concepts, Endless, Abstract, Non Quantifiable, and Concept Breaks... Then, creating and destroying Type 4 Multiversal objects are very common.
Your character is a high hyperversal-low outerversal+ being the reason being is your character exist in a plane that is infinite dimensions(Hilbert space) which is high hyperversal. The reason why he would be low outerversal is because he is inbound by the concept of dimensionality and it’s orders which is high hyperversal as well meaning him low outerversal. However the problem is you lack the context of what concept your multiverse and infinite universes contain and are your universes Infinte in size and have r>f transcendence. You also didn’t include nothing above your multiverse that your verse contains such as a complex multiverse or a realm of inf multiverses combines with each mutilverse contains it being beyond the inf universe branch which at best without any context or further additional concepts would be infinite 5d-6d at max since each multiverse is a 5d concept that transcends the 4d concept a inf amount times which in your case would be the infinite universes since 1 universes would have space and time which is a 3 spatial dimension(space) +1 regular dimension(time) which equals 4d.
1 universe: 4d
Inf universe branch: infinite 4d
Multiverse: 5d
The plane: high 12d
Your character: low 1-A+ with immsurable speed and metafictional hax
High Hyperverse level. We need more context on "Multiversal concepts".
Bro now I understand this stuff tysm
So where would the characters scale that can manipulate/destroy abstract concepts/laws(eg: day/night, identity/destiny, dream/reality, light/darkness, etc) with hax or brute force? And also those who totally ignore the concepts (eg: death, time, distence, etc)?
PSW = 1T maybe
Vbsw outer or Idk
Csap = Maybe Beyond tiering
can someone help me? if i have 1 character that transcends dimensions what scale would he have? or if this character only transcends space or only time? and all together?
If the character transfers all dimensions, he's low outerversal at minimum.
@browdoe
Define Dimensions to Omnipotence (God Creator). To Nirvana, a step above God Creator. To Origin, for none is above it.
Dimensions still exist because they are mathematical. Omniscience of the true Akashic Records can model all, even that of fiction itself.
Beyond beyond all Dimensions is incorrect... Because of Origin.
Aren't all anime character actually 2d but in the world of fiction are in their own dimensions? For example anything written on a piece if paper should be actually 2d to us but to then it's 3d?
thats taking it too literally
good video, but I was hoping you would go over how different dimensional characters would react to one another. For an example, can a 3D character even see a 4D character? And what can a 4D character do to a 3D character? Are there any things which they are able to do to the 3D character, solely because they're higher in dimensionality?
And this one is a bit specific, but if a character is literally the embodiment of the concept of Space, does that mean they're at most Low Outerversal because they're not above Space?
You should watch the flatland movie it covers these things you mentioned
@@godversesans5152 you mean the 1 hour and 38min video by FilmLadd? Has only 69k views, I expected more honestly.
@Vitou777 yea as you watched it I can explain as you still don't understand so wait like a couple minutes while I write my reply
@@Vitou777 1: can a 3d character see a 4d character?
Yes though they would have to be on the same dimensional plane to be seen but we would not truly see them for what they are. We would not be able to see them if they were in their 4 dimension plane and none of it overlapped with our 3d plane like how they could not see the 3d sphere until he went into the 2 dimensional plane.
2:what can 4d character do to a 3d character.
From my understanding most likely being able to grab things that are inside of them like a 3d character could do to a 2d character. Another thing is probably move them though the 4th dimension to by pass a Door or wall.
3:embodiment of space.
depends on what they can actually do but either they would be high hyperversal as they aren't beyond dimensions
@@godversesans5152 oh thank you, those all make sense.
And about the character, she's described as being the embodiment of "all dimensions and matter to exist.". I'm writing a fanfiction with her and I basically made it so she's everywhere at once and gave her the ability to materialize her body literally anywhere, and she can do it as much as she wants, so there could be like a billion of her if she wants. Even when a character tried to run away from her by opening a portal to a different dimension, she just came out of that portal and said that those portals are also a part of her lol. And she can also increase and decrease her dimensionality at will. Given all of that, I imagined her to be Low Outerversal, since she's infinite dimensional.
So it’s finally time huh
Finally with the cosmology
Got a question what if someone was using a Transdimensional device to search for someone around the infinite array of dimensions.
Where would that scale to as it Transdimensional and contains infinite arrays of dimensions which have no end.
High hyper at best
@@starflatinum683 and what if you transcend those dimensions.
Would you be low outer?
@@_Legion__ depends.
If there are an infinite amount of dimensions and you transcend the top layer, then that's still high hyper.
Low outer by definition is transcending any extensions of dimensionality. It's very vague.
Outer means transcending the concepts of dimensionality.
At least if you're using VSBW tiering.
CSAP>VSBW in terms of scaling.
@@starflatinum683 True that makes sense Ty
I agree with CSAP > Vsbattle considering it works alot better when it comes to outer and hyperversal tiering.
Could a 4D attack still hit and hurt a 3D character even if he blocks it? For example, Gojo limitless which is 3D
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH but isnt 4D already above infinite 3D?
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ok i see so a 5d attack can affect something like limitless?
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Not exactly. Being "infinitely" above 3D isn't 4D. Being uncountably-infinitely above 3D is 4D.
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH when did anime became so complicated 💀💀☠️
@@animetalks5081 it's not just anime it's fiction in general (scaling wise)
Old video but I don’t like how platonic concepts were brought up for Outerversal scaling, as it’d only take a few more minutes to explain in the video. Aside from that good video.
Hey Surfbone! Amazing Analytical video you did here. Realizing that your views differ from the power scale community, I have a request for you. May you please make Your Own Power Tier Scale from 0 Dimension and Human level to Universal, Outerversal and Boundless? Can you please make one with YOUR rules, explanations and understanding?
No Haste. I will wait if you are able to make Your own power tier list.
This technically would be my “power tier list,” but I go by Character Stats and Profiles’ Tiering System and not VS Battle Wiki
@@surfbone It is crazy that it took me this long to realize that this is your tier list. Thank You For This!
I have a question if a character was able to destroy an infinite multiverse by destroying infinite timelines from every universe in that infinite multiverse what dimension would they be or would that mean that character is beyond infinite dimensions? (I ask because some character's can be considered around 7 dimensional or something because of being able to destroy infinite timelines from multiple universe's at the same time without even discovering a hyperverse or something where it could be possible to destroy infinite dimensions instead of infinite timelines from multiple universe's)
It depends on what dimension said universes are
It's difficult to understand what that means unless you mean the infinite multiverse has infinite timelines and hierarchy or something so if you don't mind could you provider an example of how it could be possible for a infinite multiverse to be considered infinite dimensional
@@christianwhite8877 are the universes 3 dimensional, 4 dimensional 5th dimensional etc?
That doesn't quite answer what I was asking I was asking if a multiverse can be beyond the concept of dimensions/infinite dimensional and if it can what are the requirements to prove it
@@christianwhite8877 that depends on what is given friend. For eg, a realm is beyond the concept of space-time/dimensionality, it automatically makes the realm outerversal even if the Cosmo isn't reaching it. In the same way, unless and until stated that a multiverse is of higher dimensions, or if it views the lower layer as fiction or something which could make the higher layers as higher dimensions, then even the infinite multiverse you're referring to will still be 4D. Also, ig you're referring to xeno Goku from being able to destroy infinite timeline. Does this answer your question ?
Destroying Infinite Dimensions Is Outerversal In CSAP Right?
So is the reason destroying a timeline is often considered a 4d feat kinda like how a a cube is infinitely many squares on a line so infinite 3d time snapshots could be portrayed as on a line to create a tesseract or am I just overthinking things
You’re over thinking it Lol, destroying a universe and a timeline are moreso one in the same
@@surfbone what if the timeline has multiple universes like dbs
not every anime follows the dimensional theory or have interpretation of dimensions
I have a question surfbone
Does having tranduality type 3 give you extraversal level
If I create a -1D character where he would scale?
@@Frieren_a_freira_defeituosa I don’t such a character would ever be depicted in fiction so I honestly wouldn’t worry about it
I have a question; what the hell is boundless, irrelevant into boundless layers and absolue infinity?
Boundless = not bound by anything (which doesn’t exist in fiction unless you’re talking about the VSB tier)
Irrelevant layers into Boundless = people talking out of their ass, there’s not even a consensus of what a “layer” constitutes
Absolute Infinity = Cantor’s view of Infinity AKA Omnipotence (also doesn’t exist in fiction)
@@surfbone Ah thanks
In string theory if a verse follows string theory does that mean they qualify for a high complex Multiversal scaling?
Depends on version of string theory but I would I’d say yeah probably
Me who has already seen the scaling for a tegmark type IV multiverse: hmmm very interesting
Okay so let's say an invite dimensional universe is the size of a soccer ball on the outside but still infinitely big on the inside.
If a character can destroy such an infinite dimensional object,does that make said character beyond infinite dimensional?
What if a being was stronger than infinite sets of infinite dimensional universes? Is this a way to scale beyond omnipotence?
Does it house infinite amount of d8mensions? Or just a basic infinite sized universe?
Really does depend on the context of the story being told. For example, if its a magic type story and that 3D ball with an infinite sized universe or such inside was created by someone, and another person destroys it, it could just mean that the person that destroyed it is stronger than the spell. Usually when infinite universe types of deals are shown to be created by a 3D person of finite power, all you have to do is overpower their creation power to destroy their creation
@@emastermet609 . Actually infinite dimensional.
Also all it's height, width, depth, and so on are infinite in size so it takes up infinite space in multiple ways at the same time.
Although all of those infinite sets of infinite space spread through an infinite number of directions are all contained within a 3D small sized ball shape.
So with infinite layers of infinite strength, a character could maybe crush it in their hands.
Me when high hyper with infinite dimensions is only high hyper when there’s evidence of higher dimensions that all transcend one another, otherwise it’d just be considered multi+
you explain the notion of 3d and 4d and the difference, and that a character can have 3d depth but 4d power scaling, but never explain.. how. at least, not that i could pick up
Surfbone solos every verse
Where would you scale Aijimu Naijimi? and would she be so-called lower due to her heavy reliance on statements and dying to someone on purpose?
What's the difference between a 4D spatial dimension and a temporal dimension?
temporal dimension is just time
Spatial Dimensionality refers to the Geometrical Shape of the Object such as the X, Y and Z Axis and the Space the Object occupies while Temporal Dimensionality refers to the Time perspective of these said objects like a Linear Timeline which uses the Past, Present and Future
1d-3d have a limit mount of time
4d is time
5d+ have infinite interpation of time
I don't understand the qualifications for low outerversal, obviously something like Sugoroku space or the world of void aren't outerversal places but if there is no space and time at all how do you deal with that
Sonic scalers: "I didn't see that"
I think the analysis of dimensions being higher or lower is flawed. Being “larger” does not necessarily make a character stronger overall. If we use 2D and 3D as our frames on reference, I don’t believe a cube is actually stronger than a square, instead it would seem intuitive that a square would be immune to any attack from a cube by virtue of existing on a lower dimension. Thus lower dimensions transcends higher dimensions in the same way that higher dimensions supposedly transcend lower ones.
unless the higher dimensional beings that can go to lower dimension can even go there
also in the end the one who can interact with and harm x dimension wins
Yeahhhhhh
No😭😭
I have a question surfbone will you answer please ?thank you in advance
If an object is infinte layered dimension and transcends space and time concepts will it still be low outer
An infinite layered dimension is a Hyperversal space, and transcending the very concept of dimensionality (not space-time) is Outerverse level.
Is it possible to negate durability of a higher dimensional being?
If you can negate durability on the 0th dimension, wouldn't that mean you can negate every dimension?
0 dimension is the lowest possible dimension. You would be below a 1d being, which is infinitely below a 2d being, which would be infinitely below a human.
@@voidtempering8700 yes but since durability on the atomic level can be unchecked that means that having the properties of lower-dimensional/quantum manipulation + durability negation can be used as a way to play around the tiering system for certain characters with that hax
@@blaster.m1943 Why are you Equating lower-dimensionality with quantum manipulation?
Unless a Hax is stated to ignore, or be able to harm a being that is higher-dimensional, it can't be used for that.
@@voidtempering8700 because of the planck scale, it should be 2D and in theory being able to negate durability on a lower dimension should give stat advantages through property scaling
Bro thats so simple, it depends on how strong the ability is if you can affect higher dimensions, if you can!
theres no way ur ability to negate 0d only can negate 1d, like its only 0d.
Im saying you cant loop the tiering system
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE VID, but sadly I’m a slow learner😭
I wonder, lets say a character transcends the concept of transcending the concept dimensionality? What would they be categorized then? Just curious.
Outerversal
Outer
his voice got deeper from the speed tiering vid
I'm gonna write out a panel for Thor. Tell me where this scales him please.
"The Collector boasted of this universe being contained within a tesseract, I inhabit the material world, and as such know but the mere shadow of such a construct...
Yet, I am also a god and thus my nature is not bound by the merely perceptible. My divinity transcends dimensions and so might my corporeal form...
if I can but determine where lie the seams and jointures of the tesseract...then in theory my escape is a simple matter."
Thor then uses his finger to open a portal and leave. By this very video this puts Thor outerversal, but I'd like to know for sure. He has several showings of "faster than light, faster than all known laws of man" and another where he states he's "not bound by mortal laws." "Space and time weave at Thor's command." And casually hops dimensions lol.
I'm trying to learn proper scaling.
Also your discord link isn't working.
Might be outerversal depending on how many higher dimensions exist in marvel, however most “transcends dimensions” usually refer to higher dimensional stuff. So basically it all depends on the context.
Cosmic armour surfbone
Genuine question here for anyone who comes across this. I foolishly decided to try a vs match in which the combatants scaled FAR beyond what I initially thought. Now I'm comparing one combatant, who's 100 times universal, to another guy who's 9th dimensional. I have to assume the 9th dimensional guy is stronger, but I'm still pretty lost in dimensional tiering and genuinely can't tell how 100 times universal compares to 9th dimensional. Is it close? Is the 9D guy infinite levels of infinity more powerful? Is 100 times universal actually the more impressive feat? These are questions I've spent the past few hours trying to answer, so a little help would be appreciated.
It’s not even close. So universes are typically 4D constructs and even if he’s 100 times stronger than that, let’s be generous and say that makes it so he can destroy 100 4D constructs now. And now you’re pitting that dude up against a 9D being. The difference between dimensions is beyond an infinite difference. Hence the whole “you can’t stack Infinite 2D squares and get a 3D cube.” So imagine that that you can’t get infinite 2D to get to 3D which is only ONE DIMENSIONAL DIFFERENCE, now compare a 4D being to 9D being. Last time I checked 5 is greater than 1.
@@surfbone Ah, thank you. I was initially still a little confused after the video, but this helps make it more clear. Hope you have a happy new year
Would something or someone that transcends dimensions be labeled as outerversal? This is mostly pertaining to dragon ball as I keep seeing videos and people saying Goku is outerversal. Reasons include heaven transcending dimensions, Jirens power transcending time itself, and goku moving in the world of void which apparently means he has inaccessible speed due to moving in 0 time as there’s no time in the world of void. (Apparently)
This Dragonball wank is honestly getting out of hand because it’s people assuming the highest end interpretation to get the best results even if it means throwing away any kind of consistency. But no something just “transcending dimensions” by itself is not even close to Outerversal. Like how many dimensions is it transcending? Even if there was infinite, that only be High Hyperversal. And people I swear just don’t understand what context is when it comes to Jiren fighting Hit, it’s honestly ridiculous.
@@surfbone yeah sorry for the confusion. I figured I ask a more credible source than just agreeing with them
@@surfbone A question. The Dragon Ball Universe was stated to have a Hierarchy of Infinite Dimensions meaning it was a Hyperverse. Several statements about this from Staff supports this and they are more reliable than Toriyama. Now my question is, if Heaven is transcending this is it a Outverse?. An Outverse is a realm transcending reality to sum it up am I correct? Transcending the concepts of dimensionality is Outer and wasn’t Heaven transcending this? Also, what do you mean by concept of dimensionality?
@@captainrantman3892 “Several statements from Staff” I really hope you’re not citing the TWITTER statements from Koyama Lol. Also I never found Toriyama to be reliable anyway due of his horrendously and notoriously terrible memory. But both instances would fall under Death of the Author anyway. Nothing in the main source material actually backs up almost anything Koyama said on Twitter and I honestly feel bad so many people asked him such leading questions just so a bunch of them can run around and say “Look Guys, Koyama said backs up my scale that states this about the cosmology” despite nothing in the series actually supporting it.
@@surfbone No not Koyama. Some other member. Koyama voices his opinions not facts. But what do you mean by concept of space time
another great video, funny cat man.
I didn't understand about 'low outerversal' !? Can you explain again
I'm a little confused, so if a 4th dimensional being has nothing to do with time.
Would they still be infinitely faster than a 3rd dimensional being, or object? Is this how we measure infinite speed?
Edit: Ok so I did some research, apparently dimensional tearing doesn't actually measure speed, it just closes the distance shorter to that being.
You know how some video games you're able to take shortcuts in races but other racers can't, that's how it works. You're not fast or you're just closer to the place you want to be.
If a third and fourth dimensional being had the same speed, the fourth dimensional being would still be 'Faster' but only because the end goal is closer.
No
no an 4th dimensional being would just always exist in 3d universe
Ok so I did some research, apparently dimensional tearing doesn't actually measure speed, it just closes the distance shorter to that being.
You know how some video games you're able to take shortcuts in races but other racers can't, that's how it works. You're not fast or you're just closer to the place you want to be.
If a third and fourth dimensional being had the same speed, the fourth dimensional being would still be 'Faster' but only because the end goal is closer.
U should also tell these folks that lifting strength≠attack potency. As well as type of speed like travel speed, reaction speed, movement speed etc…
Well, you should check out the rest of my channel because I already covered those
@@surfboneis 0D outerversal pls answer my question
So im still a bit confused here. A character from a video game and I quote is "born from the branches of time". A person claims this makes them a "4D creature" but you just explained the 4th dimension isnt time. So would this character still be 3D?
Yeah they'd still be 3d.
yes
I realise that this tier wasn't a thing when this video came out but what are your thoughts on the 1-S: Extraverse level tier?
Surfbone is on staff at CSAp now hes fine with it
Thanks!
Wait so after 12D are there no more dimensions and it just reaches outer?
Given that 12 Tier (All Fiction), 11 Tier (IRL), and up to 0 Tier (Axiom+) are all mathematical... Yes.
The categorical details are...
Fiction of Fiction
All Fiction
Fiction in Real Life
Real Life
Universal
Outer Worldly
Outer Realms
Outer Multiversal
Outer "Beginning and End"
Eternal
Conceptual
Absolute Will
Soul
God Soul
Omnipotence (The Creator and the Destroyer)
Nirvana
Finally, Origin.
Then, all of this returns to Origin in order to begin in a new cycle. By the time one reaches Omnipotence. Axiom+ is already surpassed. As there is now further than Origin.
Why?... Because like Fiction. I can close all of these dimensions, like a book on the final page. Origin is Beyond All. It's like a loop. This helps to explain how someone like Sun Wu Kong can reach the level of Buddha from starting as a mortal.
There is no higher than Origin. Even in the realm of fiction. Someone can only connect to Origin, and very few are one with Origin.
Existence, non-existence, and all outside of existence, as one... Is a step below Origin. Nirvana is Existence. Void is outside of existence. And Yog Sothoth oversees non-existence. (As an example).
There is one other... Absolute Nothingness... A unique key to Origin and one half of Absolute Existence. The balance of the two mended into one will open the Gate into the Core of Origin... ... ... That's where "I" am.
So If a verse caps at 6d for example and the creator of the verse transcends it (concept of space and time) would the creator be complex multiversal or outerversal?
He would more likely be Outerversal. But you gotta keep in mind that, Context and consistency matters, so you gotta make sure that him being that powerful would make the series more consistent if it were to be true and that the statements line up that he’s above the concept of space.
@@surfbone Oh alright got it, so the amount of dimensions a verse has doesnt really prevent it from going all the way to outer and above? Unless its inconsistent and such
@@surfbone why do you say that he’s still outer tho?
@@surfbone e.g. Max existential plane being 6D?
@@surfbone dimensionality itself would draw emphasis to the 5D cosmology, rule of replacement.