Hey Guys! First video of 2021!! You probably noticed the outro wasn't as long, that was mainly attributed to being lazy and wanting to just get the video out Lol. In other news, my next video will be going in depth and discussing the different types of Speed (Combat, Travel, Reaction etc). And after that, the ever anticipated videos about the AP/DC Tiering System and Dimensional Tiering!! Both of those videos might take a while because I want them to come out as perfect as possible. A lot of thought goes into every script, but those two especially will require constant revisions and a lot of research. So look forward to all of that! If you want to get more frequent updates concerning future uploads and other things concerning my channel, please go follow my Twitter @Surfbone2
The biggest Achilles Heel for a gag character is that they're limited by the rule of funny. The reason Arale was never brought to fight Cell is because it'd be tonally inconsistent; Cell is played seriously so Arale beating him would be frustrating from an audience standpoint...so she would simply lose in a comical fashion and leave so the saga can get back to its normal tone
The 'rule of funny' is literally an in-universe mechanic in Bobobo. It's cannon that characters need to consistently practice being silly and funny to maintain their Hajike powers. That's the reason why Torpedo Girl was such a threat; it was because of how good she was at pointing out how unfunny other characters were.
I find the logic behind gag/joke falacies disingenuous. First, you can't assume all gag characters share the same powers. I mean, just because Bugs Bunny can redraw a cartoon, doesn't mean that every single cartoon character can do the same, they must display by themselves such 4th wall hability for this argument to make sense. Second is the fact that cartoon imortality usually isn't true at all: in many cartoon universes, there are cemiteries, ghosts, "long gone" ancestors, testaments, end of the world scenarios with just a few survivors (well, I remeber at least one episode of the world being nuked and Bugs Bunny being the sole survivor), and even the Grim Reaper itself. All of this implies that death exist in those universes, even if the main characters aparently are immortal, it's just airbrushed for the sake of being "kid friendly". Oh, and there's the classic episodes which the character actually dies and have to do something to be allowed by some higher entity to come back to life.
@@ErrorEditz1 you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, lol. "By one of the writers or creators" There is a single writer and creator, ONE. That's it. He drew it too, until an extremely talented artist took over, and that's what the Manga is. So unless ONE himself said Saitama is a joke, then it's total bullshit, which, I've never heard of him saying
I like when people adress this kind of common misconceptions, but I was hoping more 4th wall talk. Maybe it deserves a dedicated video about it? *wink wink*
So, if you can break the 4th wall and can regenerate from being destroyed like gumball from the amazing world of gumball show for example. Should remove those abilities from VS debates? Though in my opinion we would use regeneration but, not 4th wall breaking.
People who don't like power scaling and think only toxic nerds care about power scaling. Are usually the ones who used the gag character can't beat any character argument. Because they don't take power scaling seriously in the first place. So they mock power scaling by saying gag characters can beat anybody. Maybe this isn't the case for all of them. Sure we have the people who just joke around and use memes. And people who think a gag character can beat any character in fiction. But some people use the gag character thing to mock power scaling. Just for them to say something like this ", haha your OP character who you keeps scaling to be powerful would lose to SpongeBob haha" Btw these gag people are also the "we don't care about stupid power scaling it's all about the story and writing" people too. So it explained why these anti-power scalers would use gag characters to mock power scaling or make fun of it.
You make an intriguing point, personally The more I see of powerscaling the less i care for it. I wouldn’t go so far as to declare folks that do toxic or any more nerds than me or the next guy pfft, Just don’t get as much satisfaction as I feel I should for all the effort it takes. Like..its good fuel for a conversation but i’m a thousand times more invested in seeing the actual characters interact in a potential scenario then whatever the most accurate result of the conclusion is. The journey over the destination you know? Its why the phrase curb stomp is so unsatisfying...an easy just ruins the imagination of the potential battle, its enough to make a fellah not even care if one character got s power boost, or the other got nerfed just for the sake of an actually fun fight being there. For better or worse I think its a mindset a lot of writers from a lot of franchises have when making two fan favorites square up. its hard not to fall to the mindset, since whoevers writing it really is the deciding factor for everything.
Lol name fallacies and no limits fallacies are so easy to counter by using their spell against them mentality, I can literally say the One Above All is above everyone or Omni king is omnipotent or kratos literally means strength and they would get confused
Lucemon is actually pretty weak compared to the top tiers of beyond mega level digimon. Only one of his forms comes a little bit close but even then the others can beat him with a snap of their fingers
You didn’t actually take that seriously did you?Toei owns no part of arale character which means that beerus actually wouldn’t have been able to kill her.
@@deadmask5467 hit him harder, break his soul, have his brain get fried at the heat of 2-3 exploding suns if that, run back in time and kill him before he got his powers, pull his essence out of the narrative boundaries, remove his ability to breathe at all, give him super cancer, freeze him at absolute zero etc
@@deadmask5467 Saitama isn’t a gag character like arale, bugs bunny, and many others He is a running gag. Well was because he’s running gag was he one punched everyone and everything but after boros appeared, that running gag was shown less and less
Saitama can’t beat everyone in one punch, people say “ReAd ChApTeR 168” but in that fight he used an Omni-directional punch and it didn’t kill Garou or do a big amount of damage against him while Saitama was using his full power
Literally watched the video because Bobobo was in the thumbnail. One of my Favourite Animes, and possibly one of the best English dubs, and criminally underrated. Although by your definition, I wouldn't quite call him a gag character... More that he lives in a gag world. In the World of Bobobo, half of all the characters fight *using Gags*. In fact, their is an in universe fighting style called 'wiggin' which is about out-gagging your opponent, and reality is so malleable in universe that it basically conforms to whatever would be funniest. Bobobo himself is as powerful as he needs to be to make the next joke land, and his most persistent gag is that he can generally end most fights at any time with his powerful nose hair attacks, but he only does so at the end of the battle, after drawing out the fight with various jokes and gags, because winning instantly like that that isn't funny (another example of this being Saitama, while the running gag, or joke if you prefer, of One Punch man is his ability to end any fight with one Punch, it would not be funny or cathartic if every fight ended instantly, thus most fights are drawn out by having the villain fight other heroes first, monolog a lot, or have Saitama hold back to try and extract a bit of excitement or fun out of the fight, so that when he finally does one Punch someone the resulting comedic anti-climax actually lands). Then there are the members of his supporting cast, Don Patch and Jelly Jigglier, who are shown to be incredibly powerful fighters in the very few times they actually fight seriously, but almost always loose their fights because their persistent gag is Don Patch has an overinflated Ego, and Jelly Jiggler is pathetic, so seeing them win would not be funny. None of them by your definition could really be called gag characters, because if the definition includes not being relevant to the plot, then that doesn't work, because the gags are the plot. Their entire world runs on rule of Funny. Honestly I feel like when people say that gag characters are unbeatable, they are probably getting them confused with 'Toon characters', as in characters who function based on cartoon logic or Loony toons physics, Like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, (and Bobobo for the most part). They also confuse 'Unbeatable' to meaning the same as being 'always wins' Sure Wile e Coyote is a toon can take a lot of punishment, perform impossible feats of endurance, speed and strength, but thats not the same as saying he could beat superman in a fight. Superman may never be able to kill or otherwise cripple the Coyote in anyway that a scene transition won't fix, but the Coyote lacks any way to meaningfully hurt Superman either, not the least bit because his 'gag' is that he always fails. Toon characters, like Bobobo, run on rule of funny more then any consistent powers or abilities. Bugs Bunny smacks you with a giant Hammer, you deform into a hubcap with your face superimposed on the top, before popping back into shape with a silly sound effect and with tweety birds flying in a halo around your head, because thats funny. Daffy gets shot in the head, he gets covered in soot, and his beak spins around his head like the brim of a baseball cap, because that's funny. And they don't often die and rarely kill, because death isn't really funny. There are some characters who desires to kill, or whose stated job is to kill, or whom death is threatened against, Like Elmer Fudd, Wile E coyote, Tom and Jerry, ect, but their toon nature means that they will never really succeed, because that wouldn't be funny. Death exists as a potential consequence, but can almost never be delivered on, without spoiling the joke (with some obvious exceptions where death is the punchline, like in the classic Daffy Cartoon where Daffy accidentally kills himself while avoiding being given his draft letter, and goes to hell, relieved that he won't get drafted, only to find that the man drafting him had followed him there, letter in hand). And when it comes to power scaling... well I won't really say toon characters are impossible to scale, But more they don't lend themselves to power scaling well, because like I said, what they can and can't do is dependant on whatever is and isn't funny in the current situation. There have been Some Episodes of Classic Loony toons where someone puts on a superman costume and can suddenly gain the powers of the Kyptonian, yet in the 'Loony Toons show' which is more like a suburban sitcom, everybody has more normal abilities to fit the more suburban setting and the nature of the comedy being more mundane, with only a few exceptions, like Taz, who the entire joke being that he is an unstoppable monster, who just happens to be Bugs pet dog.
The problem with gag characters is what happens when they're in crossovers. Sure, they may not have as impressive feats or statements backing them than non-gag characters, but they can still defeat characters theoretically far stronger simply because their power is a meme, even if they're of lower tiering, simply because the plot would fit that kind of theme more than going with the obvious (character with stronger feats beating the gag character) because that's obvious and makes the story a lot more boring.
This just sounds like a lot of headcanon my guy. Like, that make more sense to you in your head, but that’s not how power scale. Plot manipulation is an actual ability, and not all gag characters have them. With some characters having better demonstrations of it.
@@surfbone I would argue that no character truly has plot manipulation as that is something only the writer of the plot could have. All character-based "plot manipulation" abilities are pretend, unless said character is an author avatar. I understand that from a powerscaling standpoint, it cares about statements and feats, but from a writing standpoint, there is fair reason for writers to ignore scaling and rate the gag character designed to be stupidly overpowered over the theoretically more powerful character.
@@WomanSlayer69420 The issue with gag characters is that very very very rarely are they like Arale, Bobobo, or even Squirrel girl where their gag is related to their abilities and pertain to combat. Which makes me question why people have generalized gag characters like this when most often, it’s consisted of characters like Cabbage Man from Avatar. But regardless, they still have limitations and should be treated just like any other fictional character. Just the title of gag character doesn’t give you inherent properties like they’re an alien race like a Saiyan or Kryptonian.
@@surfbone It really depends on what the gag is. If the gag happens to be "this character is unbeatable for comedic purposes" which is usually what most people refer to when they mention a gag character in combat, then of course, no character in that verse could beat them because now they have the ultimate plot armor.
Saying One punch man One punches everything because his name says one punch is like saying someone with the name of "Non-erectile dysfunction man" Doesn't have erectile dysfunction because his name says so even though it doesn't prove if he does or doesn't have it
@Divine Blood no you are the video demonstrated that gag characters aren’t infinite by nature LMFAO and the guide book says saitama trains and we can argue that saitama doesn’t grow any stronger because he doesn’t have anyone to compare himself to in a fight and that’s a blatant fact. You aren’t good at debating and you can scale characters who haven’t gone all out based on what they show of who they scale off of
One way I can get people to give up "it's a gag character" arguments pretty easily is by asking if the character can beat Beerus. If they say yes than they lose the ability to call it a gag character. Even make it clear of your intentions with the question, because they will be forced to give it up or look stupid.
@Ok No fillers aren’t in the primary source (Manga) and they aren’t even cannon to the secondary source (Anime). It’s a difference between anime cannon and fillers.
If fillers are considered cannon than why aren't they treated as such? The reason why is because fillers are (usually) used to give people something to watch while people are working on making more episodes with little regard for what is actually cannon to the story and therefore aren't actually part of the story which means it's not cannon to the story
13:37 This right here is the point of the story. Saitama has all this power, but he can't enoy it because a large majority of his fights last a few seconds. The struggle that he endured to get to this level is a thing of the past, and he yearns to go back to those exciting days, as shown in his dream where he fights this army of mole people. Whenever a character survives a punch, his eyes light up at the possibility that this one could be the one he was looking for, then he pushes too hard and the opp explodes. Back to sadness. I personally can feel for this character. When I reach the end of a video game and there's nothing left to do, I just feel so empty inside, knowing that I can't get anything more from this experience that I paid for. The euphoria of those 3 hours is gone, and I'm 5 pounds short.
Yeah, Saitama has some level of depth as a character and is written seriously in the grand context of his own story. Idk about you but that doesn't seem like the characteristics of a gag character to me
Even if he was a gag character, I think this would only make his character worse and his supposed gag is trash considering the multiple opponents he doesn’t beat in one punch. Also, I don’t care what the author says since his word would contradict the text if he did say this.
@@a.bsplanet8763if is gag is one punching anything it would’nt matter how hard he tries he would still one punch the opponent reguardless which he doesn’t.
I agree with this video, except for the part that a gag can’t be relevant to the story. But I don’t think that takes anything away from the video though.
ONE himself said he wanted to put a character whose whole existence is a joke who is literally a limitlessly strong and virtually invincible character introduced as an end series protagonist from the start. He said making a story on such character would be like pretty easy as even if there existed an evil that was an universal threat saitama is always there to punch the problem away with no sweat. His whole gag is that he's an unbeatable and invincible character.
Your videos have been one of the few recommendations I've got that is actually bomb af, keep it up, but one question... ever thought of doing a video about toon force?
Toon Force is basically a theory that people created in order to try and make sense of why certain cartoon characters are able to do what they do. Or in a way, it can be used to help explain characters with gag related powers like Bugs Bunny. But as of rn, I don't see a reason to dedicate a full video on it, but who knows.
@@surfbone dang, hopefully someday toon force will become more fleshed out. Seeing what characters like bugs bunny and spongebob can do with toon force is pretty crazy even compared to serious characters, so it would be cool to see toon force being used in a serious manner.
What do you mean with becoming "fleshed out" or "a theory"? Animaniacs had a song about the main leads being Toons and what they can do thanks to this. Tiny Toons strait up calls it Toon Physics & has several episodes explaining gags. But I have to agree with Surfbone for now about Bobobo being probably the most OP gag character and I haven't even finished the manga yet!
Power scaling applies to parody characters but not gag characters as power doesn’t restrict them from doing what they want. However, that same gag character can still lose to a parody character if that parody character is considered “too strong”. A good example of this is Beerus from Dragonball being able to destroy any gag character in Dragonball or Bugs Bunny losing to a turtle in a race. They are not “unbeatable”.
@@kawakiuzumaki5934 Bro everyone in Dragonball besides Arale is a Parody character. Parody characters are regular people in cartoons. Gag characters are those that are just overpowered with stupid hax that make them unable to beat. Such as stepping in the next scene from what spot to the other, Goku breaking the manga barrier or Saitama grabbing a dimension
@@TGx92 What? Are regular characters parody characters? The definition of a parody is "an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.", so a parody character would be one who imitates other characters with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. Usually with a tone of satire. Saitama is a good example of a parody character but I don't see why regular characters are parody characters. Who/What are they parodying?
It has been argued that gag characters can't really be scaled in the traditional sense because their "feats" aren't meant to be taken seriously and can't work in a hypothetical matchup analysis because their toon force abilities can't work outside the context of an actual story
Y: Yeah, isn’t that how [One Punch Man] typically goes? ONE: That’s right. You see, my favorite way to make plots is to “rub” serious elements and gag elements together and create comedic atmosphere by the friction. Saitama also is GAG Just read properly, he can be both, now haters will be cry 😂😂
From my experience with the gag characters I enjoy As long as it's done comically, yea, Slapstick Gag Characters can beat omnipotent beings But they can't beat *anyone* If someones weak, them losing would be absolutely hilarious and would turn out in their defeat in the mean of comedy They weren't invented for scaling, they're just outwith it, whether or not you scale somewhere usually changes nothing
This is why there are 1 Powerscaled Beings: Rule followers are any powerscaled character. They have whatever level of power the author has decided to give them, and are limited so as to be taken seriously. This includes 99% of fictional characters, from realistic microbiotic germs to even omniversal reality warpers and most gag characters. 2 The True Omnipotent: There can only be a single "True Omnipotent" in any series, he is the sole creator of their omniverse, and has no limits (Edit 1). He is the "rule maker", rules cannot compel him because he created the rules in the first place. Examples are Marvel’s “The One Above All”, DC Comic’s “The Writer”, and Middle Earth’s Eru Illuvatar. 3 The True Joke: The “True Joke” is a comedic character was never given limits in magnitude to their power (edit 3). The lack of limits is the difference between most gag characters and him. That's also why he beats any powerscaled character. He is a “rule breaker”, there is no logic for why he should lose. Saitama, Bugs Bunny, and Popeye are examples of this category.
2nd and 3rd categories are irrelevant from a powerscaling perspective. Every character can be powerscaled, it doesn't matter if they're a Joke character or are said to be Omnipotent. Omipotence is usually used in this nonsensical way of "can do whatever they want", and should never be used in context of powerscaling, and such characters can just be scaled based on feats and statements just like anyone else
@@erenaygun9696 They are relevant because their etire self as omnipotent beings defies common powerscaling rules, why? Easy,feats. You cant get feats from omnipotentcy, only facts, to get feats the writer should be capable of showing a character doing literally every single thing aand that its virtually impossible.
@@GrooveAtlas365Please read carefully. I said they are irrelevant from a powerscaling perspective, in addition to battleboarding. When the word omnipotent used in fiction it better translates to a character having great power, and not that they can do whatever they want, which contradicts itself. Like it's so vague, how can we even quantify it if you wanted to? Terms like "Omnipotent", or "have great power" are usually used to hype up a character without actually showing any feats, statements, or a scaling chain. They are vague, can't be quantified. Powerscaler has to scale them based on the latter, and they will do it even if they are said to be omnipotent or unbeatable, which would be something that only applies to their own verse. A planet level character can be called omnipotent or unbeatable in a verse where everyone else is around city level, that doesn't mean they are literally what is stated
@@erenaygun9696 Right, you are right because everything in powerscaling falls under the powerscaling rules. Second, what you say is really too specific, first of all, as you say, to be able to say that a character really is omnipotent, in most occasions it is simply named, because as I told you before and you yourself repeated, it is unquantifiable, however, what you say about that in a world full of planet busters a character with higher scales is omnipotent feels even biased. That applies for cases where for obvious reason you are hyperbolizing, for example, when you say kid buu is omnipotent/invincible even when he is not, however, we are talking about true cases of ''i do wathever i want'' type characters whose existence is based on being overwhelmingly powerful, so powerful that it's a joke in the case of true jokes, or so powerful that it doesn't even make sense, in the case of true omnipotents, they are beings, so powerful, that they are simply brought into the category of boundless because of the unquantifiable nature of their powers, they have a power that literally lives up to their names, boundless, however, most of the times powerscaling is used running it on feats only, however, this can reach wrong conclusions if we only make use of feats and not facts, for example, canonically garou is universal, because this was what was said by the original tweet of the cover, something that contrasts perfectly with the factor that can handle control and understand all the energies of the universe, the same with Saitama, said by dr. genus,Boros,Garou, one, Murata and sueisha in an official magazine, all agree that Saitama has a power that is simply limitless, infinite. Dr. Genos calls it boundless strenght, immeasurable strenght, or in the original English translation of the manga, endless power. Boros says that the energy that Saitama emanates is immeasurable and that he feels no limits to it, garou says that his power has no limits, one says that he is in a state of peak condition and that he possesses the maximun power, which even makes sense, being Saitama the strongest, he is exactly that, a being that has absolute or complete power. And Murata together with One uploaded to sueisha a graphic where it was expressed that Saitama also had infinite power. The point I want to get to is that in order to express how powerful a character is, both factors and feats must be scrutinized, the feats to be able to witness what a character is capable of, and the facts to be able to define and understand what we witness. The problem with powerscaling is that they only look at feats, that's why they fail and characters like Saitama, or toaa about 2 years ago, are not in the boundless category even though their powers emanate that definition.
@@GrooveAtlas365 I understand that I do, but powerscaling exists to scale characters, and cannot give too much credit to hype words like "boundles, endless, infinite, all powerful, omnipotent", otherwise they can't be scaled in the first place, and powerscalers want to scale these characters. I don't know much about OPM, watched the show for about 30 episodes (decent show btw) and saw the recent Multi-Solar System level feat. Even if ONE said Saitama is universal, it is irrelevant from powerscaling perspective; author statements can be ignored if they contradict what is being shown or no other supporting evidence exists for the statement. Now, in the case of Saitama, afaik, he has never done anything remotely close to being Universal, nor did he fought against Universal characters, nor does the show potray him as a Universal character. He is far stronger than anyone else in his verse and strong enough to casually achieve Multi-Solar system level feats, but that's about it. Other characters in OPM like Garou and Genos can call Saitama "immeasurable, infinite, endless power" because Saitama is just so much more powerful than those two, they can't even comprehend it, so they describe it with biggest words they can think of. Imagine this, a Planet busting character can also be described the same way by other characters in a verse where everyone else is around City level, because that character is just so incredibly more powerful than anyone else, but this obviously does not carry on to characters from other verses; one of the major purposes of power scaling is battleboarding. Do you think that makes Saitama unbeatable? There are characters that exist beyond concepts of space, time, dimensions, death, existence, causality, and transcend them multiple over, transcend the universe and all of its uncountably-infinite higher dimensions in their own verse, and EVEN those characters can be scaled. Nothing is out of reach for powerscaling, they can be scaled by scaling Cosmology of their verse and their position inside it. You'd say TOAA or Eru are omnipotent? They don't even come close to being compared to absolute insanity that is going on in lesser-known verses like World of Darkness or SCP (search for cosmology of those two verses on TH-cam), none of them are even called Omnipotent, rather their status is determined and justified by Cosmological scaling instead of empty hype words; Marvel cosmology is just so much smaller than those two verses. And I repeat, even those characters from WOD and SCP can be scaled, because powerscaling does not care about empty hype words. I hope you understand
@@surfbone OK I get it. By the way a little off topic but how would you power scale characters who manipulates files and code. Like Monika from ddlc (if you know her)
What about a gag character that's unbeatable? And also, what says that they shouldn't have a personality? The website you showed the definition of literally says that in some cases, a gag character has emotions because they are the main character of that story. So yes, obviously not all gags are unbeatable. But gags that are meant to be unbeatable can't be beaten. You probably agree with this and just forgot to add that last clarification of what a gag character can be.
In their own verse, the rules bend to the gag character. However, what happens when two gag characters, one that can beat anyone, and one who is unbeatable, face off against each other in a crossover? The logical conclusion is that the character who shows the more impressive feats will be more likely to win. Nothing more and nothing less. The one with less feats may still get the advantage, and it ultimately still depends on who the author of the crossover favors.
Nerd: Erm actually Saitama broke his limiter-! Power scaler: You idiot, he has to be fighting for a while before he is that strong. Which means you can measure his strength!
@@rememberme3762 I somewhat do, I am up to date on the manga, but depending on if I get any requests to cover more OPM on my channel, I might consider scaling it again. I think you're referring to a debate I had that was Jumping Spider vs Bug God, that was at least over a year ago. That debate was for a tournament and some of the arguments I made during that debate I personally don't agree with anymore. Especially the one concerning Garou's durability when off guard Lol
@@surfbone Ranking videos, vs battles, underated and overrated characters are some videos you can do. Dang why don't they have OPM tournaments anymore.. they were interesting.
@@rememberme3762 Not many are fans of debate tournaments, and currently not many people scale OPM as much as they did a year ago when Parrot popularized it
You're definition of gag characters is wrong, they can be main characters but it's a very small group like squirel girl and saitama's power is that he doenst have a limiter on his strength so he'll just grow with out limit, and he'll probably get defeated at some point but just like a muscle he'll come back bigger and stronger
One punch man started as a gag manga, that's what the creator said, and now he is making it more serious so there will be way stronger enemies to challenge him
@@surfboneLiterally the only thing that comes to my mind is that background thing. You can try to destroy it but you just end up with another background so it’s literally unable to be destroyed. Examples being the emptiness of space. Get rid of the universe and all matter and it’ll still be there and just as boundless as it was before.
I think the reason Saitama was able to one punch many characters because there durability wasn't enough to handle it like he didn't one punch Garou and before you say he wasn't using his full power First:proof? Second:How much of his power did he use to one punch the others so really I think the reason he could one punch the others was because there durability wasn't enough
Another thing I can say is at the moment he is only Galaxy level and compared to the other anime characters like zeno who can destroy a multiverse then yeah he doesn't stand a chance
@@Fox63638 ah yr DBfan now understand.. Watch again DBS Beerus never destroy anything with Sneeze🤧 Beerus has KI, his physical condition are average human lvl
Simple answer NO even if they are a gag character some are shown to be on the same level as someone else or near there level even if you do imply the feats some of some these guys we could technically make them stronger than someone else but if someone full strength never reveal we just only have the feat that they done to see how strong they are so we can't make them any stronger and most gag characters are just normally living there life and don't do much besides some overpowered abilities every now and then some are just doing the most ridicules things ever every episode so at the end of the day scaling gag characters are probably one of the most hardest things to do.
@@jaredbowen3527 For one, I said the only gag character that I am aware of that is incredibly OP was Bobobo. And if you recall, I actually inserted Bugs Bunny multiple times during the video as a representation of a gag character.
honestly I don't feel that there is any sense in leveling characters that have their power extremely linked to the context. if people want to measure what he has already shown I think it makes sense but things get particularly bizarre when people try to put the joke that the character carries in the equation. saitama is probably stronger than anything in his universe and yet is not capable of killing a fly so it sounds like saying the fly could destroy all the characters in the other universe which clearly sounds very strange and certainly is a lie.
I wish this video blew up more and reached million of people because you get people like hevanly controller adding fuel to the fire when he hisself is a certified dumbass.
I have a question. Isn't the point of a gag character (a real one) supposed to be that because they don't live under any consistency or reality why you can say that they're so unbeatable. Or is that because they have feats and powers that allow them to be on that tier.
They characters solely made for the sake of comedy. To the point where there whole existence is centered around a particular joke. Depending that gag, it can make them weak or incredibly overpowered.
Wait a second.... Thats not a bush,Thats moss! >:( 8:56 Edit: also I used tp be a semi--hard saitama stan when it came to things like fights, but now I see that scalling characters in this fasion makes way more sense then like just using their gag as a scapegoat. (But also bugs bunny is probably like the only gag character thay can truly solo all of fiction or at least coming close to being able to do it)
The only Gag Character that I know that can beat any character is The Mask... His Gag Character powers are ridiculously overpowered and scary; to the point It's not funny anymore
@@AJ-ry8qd LMAO Popeye have toon force lol even that he smash then real human so u see deathbattle have fact otherwise Popeye have more then your Saitama Saitama can be gag character and serious character but still Popeye negs Saitama LMAO and Popeye can reality manipulation 💀 ITS prove that Popeye have more toon force then Saitama so conlcusion Popeye>Saitama
Bro missed the point that it actually wouldn’t change the story. There’s like 4 characters that actually know how strong saitama is. They’re the only characters who like the audience are in on the joke.
The most recent chapters of OPM PROVE that Saitama does not have infinite power as both Garou and the narration explicitly state that Saitama's power continues to grow exponentially as he fights Garou.
The dog shit chapters which 'supposedly' made saitama look weak, dosnt prove anything. The graph is only talking about the power output of saitama's punches, not an overall increase in his power. The narration and the graph is shown from Garou's perspective
@@AJ-ry8qdBro straight up said the what the manga itself says doesn’t matter💀 also you’re just blatantly wrong about the graph lmfao. Top tier fanboyism right here.
Meta fictional feats are BS. Transcending the 4th wall that exists beyond your entire fictional cosmology (AKA being aware of and interacting with the real world) doesn't scale anywhere. Unless you're willing to tell me that every gag character in existence is beyond scaling.
If the gag characters' gag is to be invincible and is officially stated to be, then they are invincible. If the gag characters' gag however is to only be really strong, then they are beatable.
@@surfbone pretty sure Squirrel Girl is one as her name implies "Unbeatable Squirrel Girl" or Saitama which has never been shown to get defeated and is always holding back. I don't really fully say that Saitama is unbeatable though, he is most LIKELY to be unbeatable, but other than that I never did any research on more gag characters that are most likely invincible.
@@siranonymous_3757 Squirrel Girl directly loses to Dormammu on screen, I literally showed that in the video. Also, being undefeated isn't at all a way to determine if a character can be beaten. Please watch my video, I quite literally address ALL OF THIS
@@surfbone alright, I watched it now. Well now I know Squirrel Girl got defeated. I agree on what you said about "just because he's undefeated doesn't mean he always wins" I only said he was LIKELY to be unbeatable. About what you said on gag characters that need to be scaled, wouldn't it be inconsistent then? I mean, if you judge Squirrel Girl and powerscale her to a mere human then you'd think she wouldn't be able to solo Galactus easily, but she did. Her feats are inconsistent to how strong of an opponent she's beating.
Even if Saitama is removed from the story it will still function and it doesn't really matter on which it is. Just because a shows called a sorten name doesn't mean its full on either related to the show or it is, ex which shows with different or weird names have absolutely nothing to do with the show or plot, even without Saitama the show can still be called one punch man, just like if you removed the dragon balls from the show of dragon ball the name will still function. And also not all gag characters are op all depends on their gag, power or story. Some gags can beat some some are omnipotent, not all gags are the same level and should not scale. Saitama is a special case as his still in that showing said but his gag is indeed one shot everything no matter how strong. If they are presumably need to follow power scaling even if author say they have Infinite power doesn't mean their gag isn't allowed as its part of their character, gags are strong and their power are very flexible all depends on the type of gag.
No it won't. The series one punch man is heavily dependent on saitama saving the day and not getting recognition for it. Many of the main characters would be dead without him to the point where boros arrives and cleans everyone on earth. Dragon ball doesn't function without the dragon balls. Dead people don't get revived, wishes don't get made, and there isn't a drive to even begin the journey in the first place. The entire reason the series even began was bulma and goku searching for the dragon balls. Without them, the story never starts and any other story that would occur just meets a dead end.
Hey Guys! First video of 2021!! You probably noticed the outro wasn't as long, that was mainly attributed to being lazy and wanting to just get the video out Lol. In other news, my next video will be going in depth and discussing the different types of Speed (Combat, Travel, Reaction etc). And after that, the ever anticipated videos about the AP/DC Tiering System and Dimensional Tiering!! Both of those videos might take a while because I want them to come out as perfect as possible. A lot of thought goes into every script, but those two especially will require constant revisions and a lot of research. So look forward to all of that! If you want to get more frequent updates concerning future uploads and other things concerning my channel, please go follow my Twitter @Surfbone2
Do u have a discord?
@@XIX965 I don't currently, but I plan to drop one after I hit 1K.
@@surfbone dont
@@surfbone ur mid
@@surfbone I’d slap yoy
The biggest Achilles Heel for a gag character is that they're limited by the rule of funny. The reason Arale was never brought to fight Cell is because it'd be tonally inconsistent; Cell is played seriously so Arale beating him would be frustrating from an audience standpoint...so she would simply lose in a comical fashion and leave so the saga can get back to its normal tone
The 'rule of funny' is literally an in-universe mechanic in Bobobo. It's cannon that characters need to consistently practice being silly and funny to maintain their Hajike powers. That's the reason why Torpedo Girl was such a threat; it was because of how good she was at pointing out how unfunny other characters were.
beerus literally erased a ghost gag character and almost erased arale, but bulma and diarhia stops him lol
beerus is part gag to
Diarrhoea is a dragon ball character💀
W
@@thebotpackers6473 No
He's a 100% serious character
I find the logic behind gag/joke falacies disingenuous. First, you can't assume all gag characters share the same powers. I mean, just because Bugs Bunny can redraw a cartoon, doesn't mean that every single cartoon character can do the same, they must display by themselves such 4th wall hability for this argument to make sense. Second is the fact that cartoon imortality usually isn't true at all: in many cartoon universes, there are cemiteries, ghosts, "long gone" ancestors, testaments, end of the world scenarios with just a few survivors (well, I remeber at least one episode of the world being nuked and Bugs Bunny being the sole survivor), and even the Grim Reaper itself. All of this implies that death exist in those universes, even if the main characters aparently are immortal, it's just airbrushed for the sake of being "kid friendly". Oh, and there's the classic episodes which the character actually dies and have to do something to be allowed by some higher entity to come back to life.
i don’t recall him saying they are the same
Also gag characters doesn't always win, like i still believe that Dante beat Saitama no matter what
@@ErrorEditz1 Saitama isn’t a gag character tho
@@Zeno1781 he stated that he is gag by one of the writers or creators, but still doesn't solos
@@ErrorEditz1 you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, lol. "By one of the writers or creators" There is a single writer and creator, ONE. That's it. He drew it too, until an extremely talented artist took over, and that's what the Manga is. So unless ONE himself said Saitama is a joke, then it's total bullshit, which, I've never heard of him saying
Love your content as a power scaler. Keep up the good work, subbed.
I like when people adress this kind of common misconceptions, but I was hoping more 4th wall talk. Maybe it deserves a dedicated video about it? *wink wink*
Oh yes, 4th wall awareness. I might, just because some people think it makes a character so OP that they need to ban it from tournaments LMAO
So, if you can break the 4th wall and can regenerate from being destroyed like gumball from the amazing world of gumball show for example. Should remove those abilities from VS debates? Though in my opinion we would use regeneration but, not 4th wall breaking.
People who don't like power scaling and think only toxic nerds care about power scaling. Are usually the ones who used the gag character can't beat any character argument. Because they don't take power scaling seriously in the first place. So they mock power scaling by saying gag characters can beat anybody. Maybe this isn't the case for all of them. Sure we have the people who just joke around and use memes. And people who think a gag character can beat any character in fiction. But some people use the gag character thing to mock power scaling. Just for them to say something like this ", haha your OP character who you keeps scaling to be powerful would lose to SpongeBob haha" Btw these gag people are also the "we don't care about stupid power scaling it's all about the story and writing" people too. So it explained why these anti-power scalers would use gag characters to mock power scaling or make fun of it.
You make an intriguing point, personally The more I see of powerscaling the less i care for it. I wouldn’t go so far as to declare folks that do toxic or any more nerds than me or the next guy pfft, Just don’t get as much satisfaction as I feel I should for all the effort it takes. Like..its good fuel for a conversation but i’m a thousand times more invested in seeing the actual characters interact in a potential scenario then whatever the most accurate result of the conclusion is. The journey over the destination you know? Its why the phrase curb stomp is so unsatisfying...an easy just ruins the imagination of the potential battle, its enough to make a fellah not even care if one character got s power boost, or the other got nerfed just for the sake of an actually fun fight being there. For better or worse I think its a mindset a lot of writers from a lot of franchises have when making two fan favorites square up. its hard not to fall to the mindset, since whoevers writing it really is the deciding factor for everything.
yeah but spongebob has feats he scales to dreamy dreamer who is beyond his multiverse and defeat mawgu who is going to destroy Nicktoons multiverse
Sometimes though, the joke matters not the feats.
SAITAMA CAM BEAT ANYONE 😆😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@siranonymous_3757no lol
Lol name fallacies and no limits fallacies are so easy to counter by using their spell against them mentality,
I can literally say the One Above All is above everyone or Omni king is omnipotent or kratos literally means strength and they would get confused
So how does one scale Digimon? Particularly Lucemon nowdays.
Lucemon is actually pretty weak compared to the top tiers of beyond mega level digimon. Only one of his forms comes a little bit close but even then the others can beat him with a snap of their fingers
This video is very well explained about gag characters, I liked it !
Thank you for addressing this. People just dont get how gags work
Wow, I was just searching about Gag Characters!
Starting off 2021 strong i see
What's the difference between a parody character and a gag character?
Thanks for helping sir. You have my upmost respect
Beerus was about to clap Arale last time I knew
Beerus is a god so....
You didn’t actually take that seriously did you?Toei owns no part of arale character which means that beerus actually wouldn’t have been able to kill her.
@@von1626 toriyama created arale and dragon ball so it counts. You tried tho ill give you that
@@Zenith_Nulls read my comment again.
@@von1626 so toei created arale and dragon ball? If yes then you're correct but if not then you're wrong
Starting a new year with a good video. Answer in short: Yes they are beatable, after all if you can kill a joke you can kill a gag character.
My question is how do u kill the joke. Like I know gag characters aren’t unbeatable. But how do u beat a gag like saitama then?
@@deadmask5467 hit him harder, break his soul, have his brain get fried at the heat of 2-3 exploding suns if that, run back in time and kill him before he got his powers, pull his essence out of the narrative boundaries, remove his ability to breathe at all, give him super cancer, freeze him at absolute zero etc
@@yulverick super cancer lol
@@deadmask5467 Saitama isn’t a gag character like arale, bugs bunny, and many others
He is a running gag. Well was because he’s running gag was he one punched everyone and everything but after boros appeared, that running gag was shown less and less
@@Zeno1781 still a gag until the author says he isnt.
Saitama can’t beat everyone in one punch, people say “ReAd ChApTeR 168” but in that fight he used an Omni-directional punch and it didn’t kill Garou or do a big amount of damage against him while Saitama was using his full power
He did say he promised the kid he wasn't gonna kill him.
The only way you can beat a gag character which this gadget (which is ain’t real though) is by using…
The Gmod delete gun.
Literally watched the video because Bobobo was in the thumbnail. One of my Favourite Animes, and possibly one of the best English dubs, and criminally underrated.
Although by your definition, I wouldn't quite call him a gag character... More that he lives in a gag world. In the World of Bobobo, half of all the characters fight *using Gags*. In fact, their is an in universe fighting style called 'wiggin' which is about out-gagging your opponent, and reality is so malleable in universe that it basically conforms to whatever would be funniest. Bobobo himself is as powerful as he needs to be to make the next joke land, and his most persistent gag is that he can generally end most fights at any time with his powerful nose hair attacks, but he only does so at the end of the battle, after drawing out the fight with various jokes and gags, because winning instantly like that that isn't funny (another example of this being Saitama, while the running gag, or joke if you prefer, of One Punch man is his ability to end any fight with one Punch, it would not be funny or cathartic if every fight ended instantly, thus most fights are drawn out by having the villain fight other heroes first, monolog a lot, or have Saitama hold back to try and extract a bit of excitement or fun out of the fight, so that when he finally does one Punch someone the resulting comedic anti-climax actually lands). Then there are the members of his supporting cast, Don Patch and Jelly Jigglier, who are shown to be incredibly powerful fighters in the very few times they actually fight seriously, but almost always loose their fights because their persistent gag is Don Patch has an overinflated Ego, and Jelly Jiggler is pathetic, so seeing them win would not be funny.
None of them by your definition could really be called gag characters, because if the definition includes not being relevant to the plot, then that doesn't work, because the gags are the plot. Their entire world runs on rule of Funny.
Honestly I feel like when people say that gag characters are unbeatable, they are probably getting them confused with 'Toon characters', as in characters who function based on cartoon logic or Loony toons physics, Like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, (and Bobobo for the most part).
They also confuse 'Unbeatable' to meaning the same as being 'always wins'
Sure Wile e Coyote is a toon can take a lot of punishment, perform impossible feats of endurance, speed and strength, but thats not the same as saying he could beat superman in a fight. Superman may never be able to kill or otherwise cripple the Coyote in anyway that a scene transition won't fix, but the Coyote lacks any way to meaningfully hurt Superman either, not the least bit because his 'gag' is that he always fails.
Toon characters, like Bobobo, run on rule of funny more then any consistent powers or abilities. Bugs Bunny smacks you with a giant Hammer, you deform into a hubcap with your face superimposed on the top, before popping back into shape with a silly sound effect and with tweety birds flying in a halo around your head, because thats funny. Daffy gets shot in the head, he gets covered in soot, and his beak spins around his head like the brim of a baseball cap, because that's funny. And they don't often die and rarely kill, because death isn't really funny. There are some characters who desires to kill, or whose stated job is to kill, or whom death is threatened against, Like Elmer Fudd, Wile E coyote, Tom and Jerry, ect, but their toon nature means that they will never really succeed, because that wouldn't be funny. Death exists as a potential consequence, but can almost never be delivered on, without spoiling the joke (with some obvious exceptions where death is the punchline, like in the classic Daffy Cartoon where Daffy accidentally kills himself while avoiding being given his draft letter, and goes to hell, relieved that he won't get drafted, only to find that the man drafting him had followed him there, letter in hand).
And when it comes to power scaling... well I won't really say toon characters are impossible to scale, But more they don't lend themselves to power scaling well, because like I said, what they can and can't do is dependant on whatever is and isn't funny in the current situation. There have been Some Episodes of Classic Loony toons where someone puts on a superman costume and can suddenly gain the powers of the Kyptonian, yet in the 'Loony Toons show' which is more like a suburban sitcom, everybody has more normal abilities to fit the more suburban setting and the nature of the comedy being more mundane, with only a few exceptions, like Taz, who the entire joke being that he is an unstoppable monster, who just happens to be Bugs pet dog.
The problem with gag characters is what happens when they're in crossovers. Sure, they may not have as impressive feats or statements backing them than non-gag characters, but they can still defeat characters theoretically far stronger simply because their power is a meme, even if they're of lower tiering, simply because the plot would fit that kind of theme more than going with the obvious (character with stronger feats beating the gag character) because that's obvious and makes the story a lot more boring.
This just sounds like a lot of headcanon my guy. Like, that make more sense to you in your head, but that’s not how power scale. Plot manipulation is an actual ability, and not all gag characters have them. With some characters having better demonstrations of it.
@@surfbone I would argue that no character truly has plot manipulation as that is something only the writer of the plot could have. All character-based "plot manipulation" abilities are pretend, unless said character is an author avatar. I understand that from a powerscaling standpoint, it cares about statements and feats, but from a writing standpoint, there is fair reason for writers to ignore scaling and rate the gag character designed to be stupidly overpowered over the theoretically more powerful character.
@@WomanSlayer69420 The issue with gag characters is that very very very rarely are they like Arale, Bobobo, or even Squirrel girl where their gag is related to their abilities and pertain to combat. Which makes me question why people have generalized gag characters like this when most often, it’s consisted of characters like Cabbage Man from Avatar. But regardless, they still have limitations and should be treated just like any other fictional character. Just the title of gag character doesn’t give you inherent properties like they’re an alien race like a Saiyan or Kryptonian.
@@surfbone It really depends on what the gag is. If the gag happens to be "this character is unbeatable for comedic purposes" which is usually what most people refer to when they mention a gag character in combat, then of course, no character in that verse could beat them because now they have the ultimate plot armor.
OPM fans just squirming in their seats
Lmao
Meaning?
First Video of 2021!
Great argument concerning gag characters
Death Battle are one of the worst power scalers of all time in the internet....
Ok?
Nahh animation rewind has worse scaling
@@Bigsmoke-tn3wf both are cancer
@@notauri1693 nahh rewind is far worse
@@Bigsmoke-tn3wf yeah
Depends on what the gag is. If the gag is that they're unbeatable, it's a bit tricky.
So saitamas gag is Strenght, a character joke was created with idea with punching the shit out of every mf who fights with him
@@josuke2282 yea he solos
The no limits fallacy destroys that
Saying One punch man One punches everything because his name says one punch
is like saying someone with the name of "Non-erectile dysfunction man"
Doesn't have erectile dysfunction because his name says so even though it doesn't prove if he does or doesn't have it
@Divine Blood cool but what was the point of commenting this here im not sure
no offense though bro after i read my reply i thought it would sound offensive
@Divine Blood there are different levels of infinity in fiction, kid goku has better gag feats than saitama
@Divine Blood no you are the video demonstrated that gag characters aren’t infinite by nature LMFAO and the guide book says saitama trains and we can argue that saitama doesn’t grow any stronger because he doesn’t have anyone to compare himself to in a fight and that’s a blatant fact. You aren’t good at debating and you can scale characters who haven’t gone all out based on what they show of who they scale off of
@Divine Blood and the guide book says Boros broke his limiter to LMFAO
Man this video really opened my eyes
The same should be applied to Toon Force users.
It’s an interchangeable term with gags
It really would benefit everyone if everyone stopped "scaling" characters
Good luck with that Lol
@@surfbone why would luck be involved
Great video man
One way I can get people to give up "it's a gag character" arguments pretty easily is by asking if the character can beat Beerus. If they say yes than they lose the ability to call it a gag character. Even make it clear of your intentions with the question, because they will be forced to give it up or look stupid.
Why do you use beerus?
@@josephcollins4823 because beerus was stated to be able to destroy gag characters as he was about to erase arale
@@Kritical77 That was from a filler episode, fillers are not a good source to get feats. Pretty sure that didn’t happen in the manga.
@Ok No fillers aren’t in the primary source (Manga) and they aren’t even cannon to the secondary source (Anime). It’s a difference between anime cannon and fillers.
If fillers are considered cannon than why aren't they treated as such? The reason why is because fillers are (usually) used to give people something to watch while people are working on making more episodes with little regard for what is actually cannon to the story and therefore aren't actually part of the story which means it's not cannon to the story
13:37
This right here is the point of the story. Saitama has all this power, but he can't enoy it because a large majority of his fights last a few seconds. The struggle that he endured to get to this level is a thing of the past, and he yearns to go back to those exciting days, as shown in his dream where he fights this army of mole people. Whenever a character survives a punch, his eyes light up at the possibility that this one could be the one he was looking for, then he pushes too hard and the opp explodes. Back to sadness. I personally can feel for this character. When I reach the end of a video game and there's nothing left to do, I just feel so empty inside, knowing that I can't get anything more from this experience that I paid for. The euphoria of those 3 hours is gone, and I'm 5 pounds short.
Yeah, Saitama has some level of depth as a character and is written seriously in the grand context of his own story. Idk about you but that doesn't seem like the characteristics of a gag character to me
Gag characters are really interesting in terms of power but here's a question does Saitama from One Punch Man count as a gag character?
Nope because he couldn't catch the gag Flie
He is a parody character
@@markstriker925 are you sure?
@@legendary3952 well what's the difference?
yep, he is a parody character like Deadpool. Even Deadpool gets his ass kick from time to time.
saitama fits into category of modern day gag characetr,author said he is, he has gag feats so idk how ppl still find out more ways to downplay him.
Even if he was a gag character, I think this would only make his character worse and his supposed gag is trash considering the multiple opponents he doesn’t beat in one punch. Also, I don’t care what the author says since his word would contradict the text if he did say this.
@@surfbone he never went full out on any of those opponents. I know it sounds fanboyish but I can prove it if you want
@@a.bsplanet8763if is gag is one punching anything it would’nt matter how hard he tries he would still one punch the opponent reguardless which he doesn’t.
Good to see you again man .
Amazing video and damn! that god tier editing
I remember a manga where Freezas tried to beat Ryotsu from Kochikame in a fight, trying to kill him, but he couldn't because he is a gag character
I am proud to say I nearly never see this argument used anymore
I agree with this video, except for the part that a gag can’t be relevant to the story. But I don’t think that takes anything away from the video though.
Happy New Year
ONE himself said he wanted to put a character whose whole existence is a joke who is literally a limitlessly strong and virtually invincible character introduced as an end series protagonist from the start.
He said making a story on such character would be like pretty easy as even if there existed an evil that was an universal threat saitama is always there to punch the problem away with no sweat.
His whole gag is that he's an unbeatable and invincible character.
Your videos have been one of the few recommendations I've got that is actually bomb af, keep it up, but one question... ever thought of doing a video about toon force?
Toon Force is basically a theory that people created in order to try and make sense of why certain cartoon characters are able to do what they do. Or in a way, it can be used to help explain characters with gag related powers like Bugs Bunny. But as of rn, I don't see a reason to dedicate a full video on it, but who knows.
@@surfbone dang, hopefully someday toon force will become more fleshed out. Seeing what characters like bugs bunny and spongebob can do with toon force is pretty crazy even compared to serious characters, so it would be cool to see toon force being used in a serious manner.
What do you mean with becoming "fleshed out" or "a theory"? Animaniacs had a song about the main leads being Toons and what they can do thanks to this. Tiny Toons strait up calls it Toon Physics & has several episodes explaining gags.
But I have to agree with Surfbone for now about Bobobo being probably the most OP gag character and I haven't even finished the manga yet!
@@mr.e717 I was more referring to the fact that most other cartoons never really address the powers
Vegeta’s big bang attack can destroy a universe
Glad I found this video😂 you know what we been dealing with lately
UMM THAITAMA ITH BOUNDLETH I DONT KNOW WHAT KIND OF MITHINFORMATION YOU ARE THPREADING
AMAZING VIDEOS
Saitama literally has not one punched every villain.
exactly
Power scaling applies to parody characters but not gag characters as power doesn’t restrict them from doing what they want. However, that same gag character can still lose to a parody character if that parody character is considered “too strong”. A good example of this is Beerus from Dragonball being able to destroy any gag character in Dragonball or Bugs Bunny losing to a turtle in a race. They are not “unbeatable”.
Beerus isn’t a parody character tf??
@@kawakiuzumaki5934 He is a Parady Character but is able to defeat Gag characters
@@TGx92 he isn’t a parody character, he’s just stronger than that character. Simpl.
@@kawakiuzumaki5934 Bro everyone in Dragonball besides Arale is a Parody character. Parody characters are regular people in cartoons. Gag characters are those that are just overpowered with stupid hax that make them unable to beat. Such as stepping in the next scene from what spot to the other, Goku breaking the manga barrier or Saitama grabbing a dimension
@@TGx92 What? Are regular characters parody characters? The definition of a parody is "an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.", so a parody character would be one who imitates other characters with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. Usually with a tone of satire.
Saitama is a good example of a parody character but I don't see why regular characters are parody characters. Who/What are they parodying?
6:34 *the all powerful squirrel women*
It has been argued that gag characters can't really be scaled in the traditional sense because their "feats" aren't meant to be taken seriously and can't work in a hypothetical matchup analysis because their toon force abilities can't work outside the context of an actual story
That right
Y: Yeah, isn’t that how [One Punch Man] typically goes?
ONE: That’s right. You see, my favorite way to make plots is to “rub” serious elements and gag elements together and create comedic atmosphere by the friction.
Saitama also is GAG
Just read properly, he can be both, now haters will be cry 😂😂
🤦♂️
@@ανσιι-δ6ξ cry?
@@ανσιι-δ6ξ i know i can feel u bro
@@ανσιι-δ6ξ its okay Saitama is been state Gag so u can cry now
@@ανσιι-δ6ξ need any proof about Saitama being gag? I can show u Author state with voice 😏
From my experience with the gag characters I enjoy
As long as it's done comically, yea, Slapstick Gag Characters can beat omnipotent beings
But they can't beat *anyone*
If someones weak, them losing would be absolutely hilarious and would turn out in their defeat in the mean of comedy
They weren't invented for scaling, they're just outwith it, whether or not you scale somewhere usually changes nothing
I'm surprised no one has talk about saiki k.
This is why there are
1 Powerscaled Beings:
Rule followers are any powerscaled character. They have whatever level of power the author has decided to give them, and are limited so as to be taken seriously. This includes 99% of fictional characters, from realistic microbiotic germs to even omniversal reality warpers and most gag characters.
2 The True Omnipotent:
There can only be a single "True Omnipotent" in any series, he is the sole creator of their omniverse, and has no limits (Edit 1). He is the "rule maker", rules cannot compel him because he created the rules in the first place. Examples are Marvel’s “The One Above All”, DC Comic’s “The Writer”, and Middle Earth’s Eru Illuvatar.
3 The True Joke:
The “True Joke” is a comedic character was never given limits in magnitude to their power (edit 3). The lack of limits is the difference between most gag characters and him. That's also why he beats any powerscaled character. He is a “rule breaker”, there is no logic for why he should lose. Saitama, Bugs Bunny, and Popeye are examples of this category.
2nd and 3rd categories are irrelevant from a powerscaling perspective. Every character can be powerscaled, it doesn't matter if they're a Joke character or are said to be Omnipotent. Omipotence is usually used in this nonsensical way of "can do whatever they want", and should never be used in context of powerscaling, and such characters can just be scaled based on feats and statements just like anyone else
@@erenaygun9696 They are relevant because their etire self as omnipotent beings defies common powerscaling rules, why? Easy,feats.
You cant get feats from omnipotentcy, only facts, to get feats the writer should be capable of showing a character doing literally every single thing aand that its virtually impossible.
@@GrooveAtlas365Please read carefully. I said they are irrelevant from a powerscaling perspective, in addition to battleboarding. When the word omnipotent used in fiction it better translates to a character having great power, and not that they can do whatever they want, which contradicts itself. Like it's so vague, how can we even quantify it if you wanted to? Terms like "Omnipotent", or "have great power" are usually used to hype up a character without actually showing any feats, statements, or a scaling chain. They are vague, can't be quantified. Powerscaler has to scale them based on the latter, and they will do it even if they are said to be omnipotent or unbeatable, which would be something that only applies to their own verse. A planet level character can be called omnipotent or unbeatable in a verse where everyone else is around city level, that doesn't mean they are literally what is stated
@@erenaygun9696 Right, you are right because everything in powerscaling falls under the powerscaling rules.
Second, what you say is really too specific, first of all, as you say, to be able to say that a character really is omnipotent, in most occasions it is simply named, because as I told you before and you yourself repeated, it is unquantifiable, however, what you say about that in a world full of planet busters a character with higher scales is omnipotent feels even biased.
That applies for cases where for obvious reason you are hyperbolizing, for example, when you say kid buu is omnipotent/invincible even when he is not, however, we are talking about true cases of ''i do wathever i want'' type characters whose existence is based on being overwhelmingly powerful, so powerful that it's a joke in the case of true jokes, or so powerful that it doesn't even make sense, in the case of true omnipotents, they are beings, so powerful, that they are simply brought into the category of boundless because of the unquantifiable nature of their powers, they have a power that literally lives up to their names, boundless, however, most of the times powerscaling is used running it on feats only, however, this can reach wrong conclusions if we only make use of feats and not facts, for example, canonically garou is universal, because this was what was said by the original tweet of the cover, something that contrasts perfectly with the factor that can handle control and understand all the energies of the universe, the same with Saitama, said by dr. genus,Boros,Garou, one, Murata and sueisha in an official magazine, all agree that Saitama has a power that is simply limitless, infinite. Dr. Genos calls it boundless strenght, immeasurable strenght, or in the original English translation of the manga, endless power. Boros says that the energy that Saitama emanates is immeasurable and that he feels no limits to it, garou says that his power has no limits, one says that he is in a state of peak condition and that he possesses the maximun power, which even makes sense, being Saitama the strongest, he is exactly that, a being that has absolute or complete power. And Murata together with One uploaded to sueisha a graphic where it was expressed that Saitama also had infinite power.
The point I want to get to is that in order to express how powerful a character is, both factors and feats must be scrutinized, the feats to be able to witness what a character is capable of, and the facts to be able to define and understand what we witness.
The problem with powerscaling is that they only look at feats, that's why they fail and characters like Saitama, or toaa about 2 years ago, are not in the boundless category even though their powers emanate that definition.
@@GrooveAtlas365
I understand that I do, but powerscaling exists to scale characters, and cannot give too much credit to hype words like "boundles, endless, infinite, all powerful, omnipotent", otherwise they can't be scaled in the first place, and powerscalers want to scale these characters.
I don't know much about OPM, watched the show for about 30 episodes (decent show btw) and saw the recent Multi-Solar System level feat. Even if ONE said Saitama is universal, it is irrelevant from powerscaling perspective; author statements can be ignored if they contradict what is being shown or no other supporting evidence exists for the statement. Now, in the case of Saitama, afaik, he has never done anything remotely close to being Universal, nor did he fought against Universal characters, nor does the show potray him as a Universal character. He is far stronger than anyone else in his verse and strong enough to casually achieve Multi-Solar system level feats, but that's about it. Other characters in OPM like Garou and Genos can call Saitama "immeasurable, infinite, endless power" because Saitama is just so much more powerful than those two, they can't even comprehend it, so they describe it with biggest words they can think of. Imagine this, a Planet busting character can also be described the same way by other characters in a verse where everyone else is around City level, because that character is just so incredibly more powerful than anyone else, but this obviously does not carry on to characters from other verses; one of the major purposes of power scaling is battleboarding. Do you think that makes Saitama unbeatable? There are characters that exist beyond concepts of space, time, dimensions, death, existence, causality, and transcend them multiple over, transcend the universe and all of its uncountably-infinite higher dimensions in their own verse, and EVEN those characters can be scaled. Nothing is out of reach for powerscaling, they can be scaled by scaling Cosmology of their verse and their position inside it.
You'd say TOAA or Eru are omnipotent? They don't even come close to being compared to absolute insanity that is going on in lesser-known verses like World of Darkness or SCP (search for cosmology of those two verses on TH-cam), none of them are even called Omnipotent, rather their status is determined and justified by Cosmological scaling instead of empty hype words; Marvel cosmology is just so much smaller than those two verses. And I repeat, even those characters from WOD and SCP can be scaled, because powerscaling does not care about empty hype words. I hope you understand
Didn't Goku fight a gag character as a kid?
This is why Saitama arguments are shut down
3:20 I know a certain bald anime protagonist parody who'd like to have words with you.
Lmao that Dwayne one
Can I ask how would you scale Bugs Bunny being the author?
Whatever he does during that he would obviously scale to. I don’t think the idea of him being an “author” means anything inherently
@@surfbone OK I get it.
By the way a little off topic but how would you power scale characters who manipulates files and code. Like Monika from ddlc (if you know her)
What about a gag character that's unbeatable?
And also, what says that they shouldn't have a personality? The website you showed the definition of literally says that in some cases, a gag character has emotions because they are the main character of that story. So yes, obviously not all gags are unbeatable. But gags that are meant to be unbeatable can't be beaten. You probably agree with this and just forgot to add that last clarification of what a gag character can be.
In their own verse, the rules bend to the gag character. However, what happens when two gag characters, one that can beat anyone, and one who is unbeatable, face off against each other in a crossover? The logical conclusion is that the character who shows the more impressive feats will be more likely to win. Nothing more and nothing less. The one with less feats may still get the advantage, and it ultimately still depends on who the author of the crossover favors.
No limits fallacy
Stan Lee is the god of marvel, which is true so it makes sense that why he is unbeatable
I mean, he dead now so-
@@surfbone the one above all took his place
R.I.P ✝️.
Btw can you explain all fallacys in debating
In due time
People keep saying Mario has toon force when he shouldent rlly
Nerd: Erm actually Saitama broke his limiter-!
Power scaler: You idiot, he has to be fighting for a while before he is that strong. Which means you can measure his strength!
9:13 I thought a gag character couldn't have their story revolve around them being a gag character.
and then there's saiki k
@@_hoshik0631 Not seen it.
Do you do OPM debates because I think I have seen you on a OPM debate.
I scale it and I have debated it before, yes
@@surfbone Do you think scale it even in 2021? And I remember you saying Garou's durability deceased because he was of guard which is
Not true
@@rememberme3762 I somewhat do, I am up to date on the manga, but depending on if I get any requests to cover more OPM on my channel, I might consider scaling it again.
I think you're referring to a debate I had that was Jumping Spider vs Bug God, that was at least over a year ago. That debate was for a tournament and some of the arguments I made during that debate I personally don't agree with anymore. Especially the one concerning Garou's durability when off guard Lol
@@surfbone Ranking videos, vs battles, underated and overrated characters are some videos you can do.
Dang why don't they have OPM tournaments anymore.. they were interesting.
@@rememberme3762 Not many are fans of debate tournaments, and currently not many people scale OPM as much as they did a year ago when Parrot popularized it
Saitama isn’t even a Gag character he’s a parody character 😑😪
Exactly 💯
You're definition of gag characters is wrong, they can be main characters but it's a very small group like squirel girl and saitama's power is that he doenst have a limiter on his strength so he'll just grow with out limit, and he'll probably get defeated at some point but just like a muscle he'll come back bigger and stronger
One punch man started as a gag manga, that's what the creator said, and now he is making it more serious so there will be way stronger enemies to challenge him
Your*
Stan lee does solos fiction tho
yeah no shit he exist in real life so he does
Okay but how about characters that can anyone can agree their favorite characters can't beat even if they know nothing about the other character?
Like who
@@surfboneLiterally the only thing that comes to my mind is that background thing. You can try to destroy it but you just end up with another background so it’s literally unable to be destroyed. Examples being the emptiness of space. Get rid of the universe and all matter and it’ll still be there and just as boundless as it was before.
The only character I say Saitama a beats with gag character excuse against goku there’s lots who can beat him like kirby
I think the reason Saitama was able to one punch many characters because there durability wasn't enough to handle it like he didn't one punch Garou and before you say he wasn't using his full power
First:proof?
Second:How much of his power did he use to one punch the others so really I think the reason he could one punch the others was because there durability wasn't enough
Another thing I can say is at the moment he is only Galaxy level and compared to the other anime characters like zeno who can destroy a multiverse then yeah he doesn't stand a chance
And him sneezing jupiter away isn't a new thing like Beerus hasn't done that
With a sleepy ahh sneeze
Bruh when y hasn't read the manga:
Saitama can one punch anyone that's why called
" One punch man "
@@Fox63638 ah yr DBfan now understand.. Watch again DBS Beerus never destroy anything with Sneeze🤧 Beerus has KI, his physical condition are average human lvl
@@UNlimit-gin and he ain't called one punch man no one has ever referred to him as that in the series plus batman isn't a bat mf
Simple answer NO even if they are a gag character some are shown to be on the same level as someone else or near there level even if you do imply the feats some of some these guys we could technically make them stronger than someone else but if someone full strength never reveal we just only have the feat that they done to see how strong they are so we can't make them any stronger and most gag characters are just normally living there life and don't do much besides some overpowered abilities every now and then some are just doing the most ridicules things ever every episode so at the end of the day scaling gag characters are probably one of the most hardest things to do.
14:51 so i guess buggs bunny doesn't exist?
?
@@surfbone You said the only gag character that was actually strong was bobo.
Do you not think buggs bunny is a gag character?
@@jaredbowen3527 For one, I said the only gag character that I am aware of that is incredibly OP was Bobobo. And if you recall, I actually inserted Bugs Bunny multiple times during the video as a representation of a gag character.
@@surfbone Oh ok,and just for clarification i was genuinely asking the Question and not in a rhetorical sense.
@@jaredbowen3527 Gotcha
Great Vid
honestly I don't feel that there is any sense in leveling characters that have their power extremely linked to the context. if people want to measure what he has already shown I think it makes sense but things get particularly bizarre when people try to put the joke that the character carries in the equation. saitama is probably stronger than anything in his universe and yet is not capable of killing a fly so it sounds like saying the fly could destroy all the characters in the other universe which clearly sounds very strange and certainly is a lie.
That is comedic effect. Not gag.
R.I.P ✝️.
Yo nice vid, bugs bunny still solos tho😼
Fax
Saitama Terra 2 vs Goku
I wish this video blew up more and reached million of people because you get people like hevanly controller adding fuel to the fire when he hisself is a certified dumbass.
I have a question. Isn't the point of a gag character (a real one) supposed to be that because they don't live under any consistency or reality why you can say that they're so unbeatable. Or is that because they have feats and powers that allow them to be on that tier.
They characters solely made for the sake of comedy. To the point where there whole existence is centered around a particular joke. Depending that gag, it can make them weak or incredibly overpowered.
Saitama can be beaten in jump force.
He's not a jump character, idiot,
Boundless characters isn't strong as beyond fiction characters by the way.
Ultra instinct shaggy with 0.000000069420 percent of his power
Bobobo is invincible.
Wait a second.... Thats not a bush,Thats moss! >:(
8:56
Edit: also I used tp be a semi--hard saitama stan when it came to things like fights, but now I see that scalling characters in this fasion makes way more sense then like just using their gag as a scapegoat.
(But also bugs bunny is probably like the only gag character thay can truly solo all of fiction or at least coming close to being able to do it)
The only Gag Character that I know that can beat any character is The Mask... His Gag Character powers are ridiculously overpowered and scary; to the point It's not funny anymore
He can't beat anyone
The Mask loses to Popeye and Bugs Bunny.
No, Not really if you ask me it all goes down to cartoon logic, which is just feats the only difference is that it's meant to be funny.
I here after Death Battle Saitama vs Popeye.
Popeye stomps
@@jirkavrana7789
No he dosnt, saitama has casuality manipulation, which is better than toon force
@@AJ-ry8qd Nah
@@AJ-ry8qd LMAO Popeye have toon force lol even that he smash then real human so u see deathbattle have fact otherwise Popeye have more then your Saitama Saitama can be gag character and serious character but still Popeye negs Saitama LMAO and Popeye can reality manipulation 💀 ITS prove that Popeye have more toon force then Saitama so conlcusion Popeye>Saitama
man saitama argument didnt age well lol
Opm fans crying
Bro missed the point that it actually wouldn’t change the story. There’s like 4 characters that actually know how strong saitama is. They’re the only characters who like the audience are in on the joke.
You basically skipped over the second point
The most recent chapters of OPM PROVE that Saitama does not have infinite power as both Garou and the narration explicitly state that Saitama's power continues to grow exponentially as he fights Garou.
The dog shit chapters which 'supposedly' made saitama look weak, dosnt prove anything. The graph is only talking about the power output of saitama's punches, not an overall increase in his power. The narration and the graph is shown from Garou's perspective
@@AJ-ry8qd
The graph is literally a showcase of his strength growing.
@@AJ-ry8qdBro straight up said the what the manga itself says doesn’t matter💀 also you’re just blatantly wrong about the graph lmfao. Top tier fanboyism right here.
Meta fictional feats are BS. Transcending the 4th wall that exists beyond your entire fictional cosmology (AKA being aware of and interacting with the real world) doesn't scale anywhere. Unless you're willing to tell me that every gag character in existence is beyond scaling.
So it saitama doesn’t solo
Obviously not lol
If the gag characters' gag is to be invincible and is officially stated to be, then they are invincible. If the gag characters' gag however is to only be really strong, then they are beatable.
There's no such thing as an totally invincible character, and I would love it if you could bring up any examples of one.
@@surfbone pretty sure Squirrel Girl is one as her name implies "Unbeatable Squirrel Girl" or Saitama which has never been shown to get defeated and is always holding back. I don't really fully say that Saitama is unbeatable though, he is most LIKELY to be unbeatable, but other than that I never did any research on more gag characters that are most likely invincible.
@@siranonymous_3757 Squirrel Girl directly loses to Dormammu on screen, I literally showed that in the video. Also, being undefeated isn't at all a way to determine if a character can be beaten. Please watch my video, I quite literally address ALL OF THIS
@@surfbone I didn't watch the video fully my bad
@@surfbone alright, I watched it now. Well now I know Squirrel Girl got defeated. I agree on what you said about "just because he's undefeated doesn't mean he always wins" I only said he was LIKELY to be unbeatable. About what you said on gag characters that need to be scaled, wouldn't it be inconsistent then? I mean, if you judge Squirrel Girl and powerscale her to a mere human then you'd think she wouldn't be able to solo Galactus easily, but she did. Her feats are inconsistent to how strong of an opponent she's beating.
Even if Saitama is removed from the story it will still function and it doesn't really matter on which it is. Just because a shows called a sorten name doesn't mean its full on either related to the show or it is, ex which shows with different or weird names have absolutely nothing to do with the show or plot, even without Saitama the show can still be called one punch man, just like if you removed the dragon balls from the show of dragon ball the name will still function. And also not all gag characters are op all depends on their gag, power or story. Some gags can beat some some are omnipotent, not all gags are the same level and should not scale. Saitama is a special case as his still in that showing said but his gag is indeed one shot everything no matter how strong. If they are presumably need to follow power scaling even if author say they have Infinite power doesn't mean their gag isn't allowed as its part of their character, gags are strong and their power are very flexible all depends on the type of gag.
No it won't. The series one punch man is heavily dependent on saitama saving the day and not getting recognition for it. Many of the main characters would be dead without him to the point where boros arrives and cleans everyone on earth.
Dragon ball doesn't function without the dragon balls. Dead people don't get revived, wishes don't get made, and there isn't a drive to even begin the journey in the first place. The entire reason the series even began was bulma and goku searching for the dragon balls. Without them, the story never starts and any other story that would occur just meets a dead end.