I’ve meet a guy who believes deku can beat the likes of Zeno and Gimmi via out hazing them simply due to him breaking Todoroki’s ice. So yeah I needed to hear this.
Thank you for allowing providing us with such a consistent structure to scale a narrative. I plan on scaling the first five arcs of Dandadan, since a lot of degenerative narratives about how fast the characters move (120km/hour, but can dodge explosions and lasers) has led to a breakdown in the story structure. The in-universe power scaling is consistent, however, so it would be worth a look. [06:37] Hearing you do a bit of a stammer for, "credibility," and, [07:21] "cosmological," made me happy. I'm glad you're embracing your speech skills, as you owning it shows how professional you are, no matter what impedes you. (That being Dragon Ball Fans 90% of the time.) May God continue to bless you with vision and the ability to tell the truth.
Excellent how-to on research! I've been seeing a lot of blogs/videos/etc. that use flawed styles of research, and I'm quite happy that you've made a simple and easy to understand guide!
I think I am going to avoid scalings past planet level, those levels just keep getting toxic to no end on how exact the tierings should be, especially the ones that are about space-time continuums and above.
@@nagatouzumaki4047you can call them dumb but they are accurate to how strong some characters actually are, since multiversal is not really a cap to how strong characters can be.
I'm pretty much the same way, primarily because I aint no Astrophysicist and not going to pretend to be one either. Virtually every single person in scaling talking about shit they literally have no idea what they are talking about. An echo chamber of what their favorite scaler says about said character or what ever else they're talking about.
regarding author's statements is astral regulator thanos canon as i remember he was never retconned officially by marvel just a author said it to be non canon but marvel never said anything and didn't retconned it like beyonder. also they still sell infinity saga The End book.
5:17 This is kind of a blurry line, as ive seen this argument being used when someone points out that the adaptation adds better context to a certain feat; not rewriting said feat or making it stronger, just more valid as an argument. Yet apparently that's not accepted because "Not the original manga so, not canon"
That’s not always the case tho, that’s the issue. I understand that sometimes mangaka get that much involved to do that, but we shouldn’t assume that for every adaptation. It should be a case by case basis
@@surfbone My opinion on the matter is that it should be taken into account as long as it only provides context instead of changing the feat entirely. I've seen so many good arguments get thrown to trash because "Yeah but that dialogue only happens in the anime so, not valid". When said dialogue is not the basis of the scaling, just supporting evidence.
@@ーテイル If it’s just “supporting evidence” then that proves the point I make in the video. That it’s not needed or necessary. Again, unless specified to be an addition to the main story, it should not be taken as such by default
I still say Death of the Author is stupid. Especially with facts about the setting. The author might have never thought about it, never thought anyone would care, or had a place to put it into the work. And they could just as easily put it into the work themselves. Also doesn't stop someone for pulling a JK Rolling, since they could just shove it into the work officially. That's why I think we should include author statements, as long as they are the soul author, or the others agree: they have the power to put it in anyway, and they are the source it is coming from. Authors are basically the gods of their work. The only thing they don't have control over is the fundamental laws of things like math and logic, and the audience reaction to it. Not saying you specifically, but generally I find most Death of the Author arguments are either to defend someone's weird interpretation of a work, or to distance it from the author because they don't like them.
As surfbone pointed out though the author is not the story, and the story is it’s own thing. If we’re going by what the story tells us then what the author says is no different from what anyone else says outside the story, which is what death of the author points out. Sure the author could add it in, but that doesn’t mean what they say has power. Being god of the text doesn’t mean how much you’ve put into the text can’t be analyzed or judged.
@@princelamar1735 That doesn't make any sense though. What is really the difference between a creator making a lore supplement for their series vs just answering a Q&A besides a formal stamp of approval? It's like someone arguing that a feat doesn't count for an anime because it was only in the manga, and never made it to the screen, even if nothing contradicts it there and it was just cut for time. Besides, it also massively limits what we can know about a series, because the author can only shove so much stuff into the the franchise without hurting peoples enjoyment of it with exposition dumps.
@@dragonturtle2703 The difference is one is extra material that is part of the story, the other is a statement made from the creator who’s outside the story. One is the creation, the other is the creator. It’s like the difference of food and the shef. As the customer we can differentiate what is what. The anime feat does count if you are scaling the anime, however there’s no reason why that feat would apply to the manga since they are practically two different telling of the story. I don’t think it limits much of anything, since all the author has to do is place stuff they wish to clarify within guidebooks. Not to mention know one is saying you can’t hear out what the author says, it’s just that what they say isn’t inherently true if we’re going by what the story says. So you’re free to listen to the author’s interpretation if you want to know their insight into the series, it’s using that interpretation as evidence that’s the issue.
There is no difference between the author saying XY can destroy a planet and the author publishing a 1 page book where XY destroys a planet. Both are canon.
That was a really rough way to end the video. Super abrupt lol but anyway I have a few questions. -If statements from authors shouldnt be taken into consideration then why can guidebooks. theyre theyre same thing but in written form. They werent oart of the original story - how should supplementary media be treated. Like the naruto novels or cant fear your own world. are they on the same level of canon as the source material - for videogames are the original releases the only canon versions. should all remasters be considered a different continuity if it has story changes or would those be considered retcons
Guidebook statements should also be taken with a grain of salt For those, there has to be a level of canonicity to them, and not just any supplementary media can be used If other than the graphics quality and some mechanics the remaster is a one for one, it _can_ be taken as canon. Not too sure tho
@@primedarkking10 the biggest thing here is consistency, something which should be obvious but I guess the people here at Surfbone's audience can't understand that. If a statement is contradictory to what happened in the story then that statement isn't valid, again should be obvious. If the statement doesn't contradict cannon then it can be used, especially if its the author writing the guidebook, again something which should be obvious. The easiest way to tell if a guidebook or author statement can be used is if it contradicts cannon, key word being contradicts cannon, since people like to say that an author's statement can contradict the story and therefore all author statement shouldn't be used. Again this should be obvious in that if it contradicts cannon then it shouldn't be used, however this in it of itself isn't a reason to toss out all author statements, as that's assuming some = all.
@@primedarkking10 Reminder here is that you're proposing of never using author statements, because of "death of the author", when death of the author doesn't even have anything to do with scaling and chances are people like yourself and Surfbone don't even know what it is.
@@reflex9238 ...you still didn't define taking stuff with a grain of salt, properly at the very most. And, it seems disingenuous to say that a belief of how a work's interpretation works can't be used because it "doesn't apply". And I'm no expert on that concept, I only know the basics of it, but even still, as i said before, seems disingenuous
Man thank you surfbone, I desperately needed this video but I do have 1 question. For the author statments, aren’t we able to still use a few, since like you said “ a series wouldn’t be able to express the full detail”. Like with godzilla in hell we see that Godzilla kills 2 giant monster mountains, that are presumably gods, that’s all the comics say. But when you get the author statments you know those 2 god mountains also created the idw verse and they created everything and nothingness. Do we still use those statments to fill in the gaps?
in one punch man chapter 167, in the next to last panel, the drawing shows cosmic garou punching saitama in the face and it looks like saitama is spitting blood. both saitama's blood splatter and cosmic garou's fist travel past the manga panel! would you consider this drawing a 4th wall break just like or similar to the drawing of kid goku breaking the manga panel?
That question is a deep one,but the jist is that a positive claim is one where youre saying something is X rather than a negation So there is a hole at the bottom of the sea As opposed to No I dont think there is a hole at the bottom of the sea.
I didn't even have "scaling" in mind when I clicked this video. I only wanted to see a video on research in general. That being said I still found this to be quite helpful. The only point I disagree with is when you alluded to the concept of the death of the author and said that the author's statements aren't the absolute truth. I still believe that the author first and foremost has the most authority over their work and that while interpretations are fine, people tend to go too far or see things that aren't there, and thus the author is still the ultimate authority imo.
Writers can be straight up wrong about their own work, for example: Akira Toriyama (The writer of Dragon Ball) has forgotten the difference between super saiyan 2 and 3. And has even discredited himself, saying the daizenshuu is a better source of information on the series than his own word.
Out of curiosity. Where would a character scale if they remember changes in the timeline. indirectly created a fixed point in time. And discovered they are a universal constant. But in the cosmology nobody truly has free will do to Destiny being different in each timeline. Time and space are created by the concepts of good and evil. And causality is part of the laws of time
Nowhere, that's just cosmic awareness. Time and space being created by good and evil just upscames good and evil. Causality doesn’t have anything to do with that, but it all depends on how the verse presents "time" as being part of causality within that verse.
That's not very helpful. Also acausality in certain circumstances can be used as evidence for being more than 3 dimensional (in this case it's the character being able to be replaced by versions of themself from other timelines. Though they gain the powers. Memories. And personality of the original version of that person, through this they can remember changes in the timeline). And as I've said. In the verse it's been established that causality is part of the laws of time. This would mean you could warp reality via time manipulation and it means places without time don't have causality.
@@surfbone Thank you and reason why I thought they had abilities because i heard them 4d beings could see through walls just 3d being could see through 2d walls
@@Cosmomation279 we don’t see *through* 2D walls in the way like it’s some X-Ray vision or something. We see the other side of the wall due to the different perspective we’re able to perceive things at.
Why should we trust guidebooks but not authors? Also in the what source of info should we use section where do we even read volumes? And sorry but I'm not reading the whole manga just for one thing I'm going to the guidebooks for that.
Guidebooks are a published work thats gone through editorial The author is just some dude hows only claim to credibility is an "ought to". I.e they ought to know not that they have to know
@@hashiondiscord8540 so guide books are more trustworthy than authors even though authors yknow wrote the damn story in the first place and if so then why do people discredit guidebooks?
@@Shadow-Astro69 why does writing a story matter, ive made dozens of maps on halo that doesnt mean i know all the best sniping spots. A writer is ultimately another reader while a guidebook is more material. People atempt to discredit guidebooks because they dont like the information in them
@@hashiondiscord8540 I'm sorry but a writer is NOT just another reader And halo maps are much more different than manga A writer is someone that makes the story and Everything in it if he says Character A is stronger than character B then what he said (if not retconed later) should be taken at face value And people HATE dragon ball guide books does that mean everything in them is correct?
@@Shadow-Astro69 they are though Not really Writing a story doesnt make his opinion a fact, ultimately its the same as if I said it. I think every guidebook should be taken case by case, the guide book does have some very helpful information but also some very wonky tid bits
Came to ask about the apparent inconsistency between allowing guidebooks to be used, but not Author Statements. Seems like people are already on your ass for that, lol.
I clearly explained it in my video and so far all of the comments that have been “on my ass” for it don’t actually reference my concerns with using author statements. But Instead just criticize the idea and accuse me of being hypocritical. Which I have yet to see a valid explanation for. I would like to know, what in what I said in the video doesn’t make sense?
@@surfbone Aight. I could explain the public sentiment to you. I think it has mostly to do with a few things. Sorry if you wanted a small comment. In the "Ambiguity Fallacy" chapter, you are pretty clear with how you argue things are. You say that it's not necessary to look into every aspect of a property, especially when they refer to different continuities and/or form their own interpretations on the story. You apply this logic to guidebooks, and remarks how a primary source triumphs over secondary sources like guidebooks. In this section, many, me included, believe that you imply that guidebooks, although secondary, have some level of inherent credibility. You do this by pointing out how Dragon Ball fans call everything a guide to try and steal the credibility of the "actual guidebooks" like the Daizenshuu and Chozenshuu. You also say that an argument doesn't "have" to be related to a guidebook, which means you still "can" do it, which seems to be a 180 from what you say in the next chapter regarding Author Statements (AS). Your position in making this a different chapter from AS not being evidence also supports this interpretation. Another statement I believe people use to point an apparent contradiction is this one: *"Fundamentally, a guidebook should be this material published with sole purpose of explaining the work in question, since a series can't always go into super discreet detail about every technique, ability and or cosmological structure without sacrificing the pacing."* Compared to the following chapter, "Why Author Statements Are NOT Evidence", the positions you took prior seem off. In this part, you say that AS are not an acceptable source, and that the root of it is that they aren't in nor are part of the story. Well, by this logic, the use of guidebooks should also not be acceptable as they are not in the story nor are part of it, they exist to explain a story that can live without them. Not only that, but your counter-argument to the objection that "something Kishimoto said about Naruto should be valid because he is it's creator" is that "Why doesn't he write that statement in the manga, then?". This rebuttal seems tone-deaf when put side to side with the statement I highlighted: well, what if he couldn't do it? The last remarkable remark - pun intended - seen in this part is that authors are just as fallible or capable of making mistakes as anyone else. With the proposition that guidebooks are inherently valid, this would be contradictory, as many of them are made with or by the creator, and not only that, but they are produced by another team made by humans that, just like the creator, are fallible. This would also ignore work culture in manga where many times the creators are regarded as "the untarnished truth" by the staff responsible for the guides. The presence of an editorial figure on one side doesn't make it valid if we are taking this point to the utmost. If I were to make a TL;DR, it would basically just be centered on supplementary material and/or guidebooks being a case by case while author statements are just blatantly ignored. If I were to make a small comment that would phrase the main problem people seem to have, it would be: "Quick question. You said that guidebooks can serve a purpose in explaining the main source and are mostly used due to the nigh-impossibility of working extensive explanations within the story due to problems with pacing and more. However, you also stated that Author Statements are not valid evidence. If an Author is asked about something in his own series and can work an explanation about in an interview or something alike, separate from the main source, how would that at all differentiate it from a guidebook that is claimed to be valid?"
@@surfbone5:37 that what I am dealing debating death fanboys they said this "I aM dEAth StraigHt UP"🤡🤡🤡🤡 how does this exactly make you the embodiment of death 💀💀💀 Also thanks man now I can finally reaserch something I didnt know how
Not really related to the topic but it's crazy how being a powerscaler is so similar to being a Christian, with regards to determining what's canon and what you should believe. Problems like people not checking the original source material (The Bible), the validity of secondary material, using the correct version/translation, people just adopting the beliefs of some random priest/scholar/apologist, etc. If you're Christian, consider re-watching the video but replace "Naruto" and "Dragon Ball" with "The Bible". I'm not trying to evangelise or trying to make any random topic about Christianity, just found the parallels a bit odd.
7:35 Amateur, you already started with a massive red herring, as the author writes his and he can choose what he writes in it, to say otherwise is very dishonest. Plus you already admitted on the use of guidebooks and what they do, ie expand on the story and add some clarity, its funny you followed it up author statements as not being valid right as you just came of saying why guidebooks would be valid, its hilarious how amateurish you are if you can't even realize the inconsistency in your own script. I also think this needs to be said since illiterate people like you and Noodles toss this around like a silver bullet but don't even know what it even means and that is Death of the Author. Death of the Author simply means that the reader's interpretation is just as valid as that of the author to a story that was already left ambiguous to begin with, this is a subjective thing to something that isn't even remotely related to scaling at all and holds close to no place to begin with, as scaling looks at feats something we can literally see on screen happening. The example with Naruto since you were using that, Naruto in the Chunin exams defeating Neji something that happens on screen and we can see objectively and there's nothing in regards to interpretation that one can spin as Neji winning someone as we all have eyes. This is like scaling101 maybe you should look back at your old videos if you can't even remember what scaling is, especially if you're saying Death of the Author when its completely unrelated to scaling as that implies that scaling uses things that are ambiguity to begin with, which I should add should be clear why ambiguous things aren't used for scaling because it'd be no different than making a no limits fallacy or an appeal to ignorance fallacy. The fact that you guys don't even know what Death of the Author is but toss it around is just hilarious, like watching children play with guns.
Exactly,these types of people are like anti intellectuals,naruto isnt real,its a work of fiction,its just an author trying to portray an idea towards you.If he changed his mind,then the entire work of fiction changes,because it only exists as a means for HIM to express his thoughts,not as its own material.
@@princelamar1735 You think Appeal to Reality is a fallacy alongside the clown who made this video and just made an insult without refuting the Op, you have no space to call other people pseudos.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 As the other dude pointed out the other op did not point out when surfbone did not follow his own research, so there’s no point in “proving him wrong” when he didn’t substantiate his claim. And yes the appeal to reality is a fallacy when it comes to interpreting fiction, because when you interpret the story you’re trying to determine what is true within that story and what is true within a story can be unbound by the limits of reality. So interpreting fiction while being limited to what you think is possible in reality is flawed when trying to to go by what’s true in the fictional world, pointing out that humans can’t control fire in real life has nothing to do with people being able to fire bend in avatar for example. So yes from a power scaling perspective as well as just interpreting stories, appeal to reality is a legit fallacy as it’s flawed. So bringing up real world limitations to refute things like innacesible speed will not help your case. As for this op, it’s really just a matter of understanding what is the material vs what is the author, so he’s just making up a contradiction for surfbone. He also doesn’t understand that noodles and surfbones use of death of the author is related to scaling as they just point out that author statements which is sometimes used for scaling isn’t real evidence with the death of the author in mind, because as the op said it means the author statement has no more validity then a reader. So rather then surf and noodles saying death of the author is related to scaling, it’s moreso they use death of the author to also explain why author statements don’t work for scaling either as they aren’t evidence. This is something the op simply failed to consider. Neither of the two even said that you can spin an interpretation any which way so the op is just attacking a strawman after that.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 There you go, I think I made my point on why the op is the clown here if you read the bottom half of my comment, the top half explains why the appeal to reality is in fact a fallacy.
I’ve meet a guy who believes deku can beat the likes of Zeno and Gimmi via out hazing them simply due to him breaking Todoroki’s ice.
So yeah I needed to hear this.
The Ambiguity Fallacy feels like a call out to all Bleach Fans.
Another school session with Surfbone ❤
I agree and I haven't even watched the video yet. That's how true it is.
I never do research and I always sound like a hypocrite and far from intelligent 🥰
@@starpeep5769 That's okay. As far as I know, I never do scope and I always sound like a tool and far from the status forgivable. You're not alone.
Glazing
@@starpeep5769 You literally 'said' that, deleted it and repeated it.
Thank you for allowing providing us with such a consistent structure to scale a narrative. I plan on scaling the first five arcs of Dandadan, since a lot of degenerative narratives about how fast the characters move (120km/hour, but can dodge explosions and lasers) has led to a breakdown in the story structure. The in-universe power scaling is consistent, however, so it would be worth a look.
[06:37] Hearing you do a bit of a stammer for, "credibility," and, [07:21] "cosmological," made me happy. I'm glad you're embracing your speech skills, as you owning it shows how professional you are, no matter what impedes you. (That being Dragon Ball Fans 90% of the time.) May God continue to bless you with vision and the ability to tell the truth.
Excellent how-to on research! I've been seeing a lot of blogs/videos/etc. that use flawed styles of research, and I'm quite happy that you've made a simple and easy to understand guide!
As someone who is getting into scaling this was very useful.
I missed these videos. It's the morbid curiosity of seeing a madman ramble. Keep it up.
noodles and surfbone uploading in the same day? i'm starting to wonder if they're the same man
I think I am going to avoid scalings past planet level, those levels just keep getting toxic to no end on how exact the tierings should be, especially the ones that are about space-time continuums and above.
Anything above multiverse is kinda dumb
Yeah it kind of gets ridiculous.
@@nagatouzumaki4047you can call them dumb but they are accurate to how strong some characters actually are, since multiversal is not really a cap to how strong characters can be.
I'm pretty much the same way, primarily because I aint no Astrophysicist and not going to pretend to be one either. Virtually every single person in scaling talking about shit they literally have no idea what they are talking about. An echo chamber of what their favorite scaler says about said character or what ever else they're talking about.
Lamar
What is bigger then a multiverse
What bigger thing can you even destroy
funny enough this video is well timed for me since im trying to do research on a character right now lol
Powerscalers: “But I hate reading”🤓🤓🤓
That’s the dragon ball powerscalers
regarding author's statements
is astral regulator thanos canon as i remember he was never retconned officially by marvel just a author said it to be non canon but marvel never said anything and didn't retconned it like beyonder. also they still sell infinity saga The End book.
Sometimes the best lessons in life come from someone who doesn't apply them.🍷🗿
And which lessons in this video doesn't he apply?
@@ButtonZBruh How to Research.
If you've watched all his previous videos you'll know what I mean.
@@shanksyonko411 I've watched all his videos and I haven't seen any contradictions
@@ButtonZBruh So you are one of the people who believes that inaccessible speed is a type of speed.
@@shanksyonko411 Yes, because it doesn't make any sense to put it in the same category as infinite speed.
Please make a video about intelligence tiering
5:17
This is kind of a blurry line, as ive seen this argument being used when someone points out that the adaptation adds better context to a certain feat; not rewriting said feat or making it stronger, just more valid as an argument. Yet apparently that's not accepted because "Not the original manga so, not canon"
That’s not always the case tho, that’s the issue. I understand that sometimes mangaka get that much involved to do that, but we shouldn’t assume that for every adaptation. It should be a case by case basis
@@surfbone My opinion on the matter is that it should be taken into account as long as it only provides context instead of changing the feat entirely.
I've seen so many good arguments get thrown to trash because "Yeah but that dialogue only happens in the anime so, not valid". When said dialogue is not the basis of the scaling, just supporting evidence.
@@ーテイル If it’s just “supporting evidence” then that proves the point I make in the video. That it’s not needed or necessary. Again, unless specified to be an addition to the main story, it should not be taken as such by default
I still say Death of the Author is stupid. Especially with facts about the setting. The author might have never thought about it, never thought anyone would care, or had a place to put it into the work. And they could just as easily put it into the work themselves. Also doesn't stop someone for pulling a JK Rolling, since they could just shove it into the work officially.
That's why I think we should include author statements, as long as they are the soul author, or the others agree: they have the power to put it in anyway, and they are the source it is coming from.
Authors are basically the gods of their work. The only thing they don't have control over is the fundamental laws of things like math and logic, and the audience reaction to it.
Not saying you specifically, but generally I find most Death of the Author arguments are either to defend someone's weird interpretation of a work, or to distance it from the author because they don't like them.
As surfbone pointed out though the author is not the story, and the story is it’s own thing. If we’re going by what the story tells us then what the author says is no different from what anyone else says outside the story, which is what death of the author points out. Sure the author could add it in, but that doesn’t mean what they say has power.
Being god of the text doesn’t mean how much you’ve put into the text can’t be analyzed or judged.
@@princelamar1735 That doesn't make any sense though. What is really the difference between a creator making a lore supplement for their series vs just answering a Q&A besides a formal stamp of approval? It's like someone arguing that a feat doesn't count for an anime because it was only in the manga, and never made it to the screen, even if nothing contradicts it there and it was just cut for time.
Besides, it also massively limits what we can know about a series, because the author can only shove so much stuff into the the franchise without hurting peoples enjoyment of it with exposition dumps.
@@dragonturtle2703 The difference is one is extra material that is part of the story, the other is a statement made from the creator who’s outside the story. One is the creation, the other is the creator. It’s like the difference of food and the shef. As the customer we can differentiate what is what.
The anime feat does count if you are scaling the anime, however there’s no reason why that feat would apply to the manga since they are practically two different telling of the story.
I don’t think it limits much of anything, since all the author has to do is place stuff they wish to clarify within guidebooks. Not to mention know one is saying you can’t hear out what the author says, it’s just that what they say isn’t inherently true if we’re going by what the story says. So you’re free to listen to the author’s interpretation if you want to know their insight into the series, it’s using that interpretation as evidence that’s the issue.
There is no difference between the author saying XY can destroy a planet and the author publishing a 1 page book where XY destroys a planet. Both are canon.
Words can´t describe how much I hate Woozle Effect. Great video btw
That was a really rough way to end the video. Super abrupt lol
but anyway I have a few questions.
-If statements from authors shouldnt be taken into consideration then why can guidebooks. theyre theyre same thing but in written form. They werent oart of the original story
- how should supplementary media be treated. Like the naruto novels or cant fear your own world. are they on the same level of canon as the source material
- for videogames are the original releases the only canon versions. should all remasters be considered a different continuity if it has story changes or would those be considered retcons
Guidebook statements should also be taken with a grain of salt
For those, there has to be a level of canonicity to them, and not just any supplementary media can be used
If other than the graphics quality and some mechanics the remaster is a one for one, it _can_ be taken as canon. Not too sure tho
@@primedarkking10 the biggest thing here is consistency, something which should be obvious but I guess the people here at Surfbone's audience can't understand that.
If a statement is contradictory to what happened in the story then that statement isn't valid, again should be obvious. If the statement doesn't contradict cannon then it can be used, especially if its the author writing the guidebook, again something which should be obvious.
The easiest way to tell if a guidebook or author statement can be used is if it contradicts cannon, key word being contradicts cannon, since people like to say that an author's statement can contradict the story and therefore all author statement shouldn't be used. Again this should be obvious in that if it contradicts cannon then it shouldn't be used, however this in it of itself isn't a reason to toss out all author statements, as that's assuming some = all.
@@reflex9238 please define for me the phrase "take with a grain of salt"
@@primedarkking10 Reminder here is that you're proposing of never using author statements, because of "death of the author", when death of the author doesn't even have anything to do with scaling and chances are people like yourself and Surfbone don't even know what it is.
@@reflex9238 ...you still didn't define taking stuff with a grain of salt, properly at the very most. And, it seems disingenuous to say that a belief of how a work's interpretation works can't be used because it "doesn't apply". And I'm no expert on that concept, I only know the basics of it, but even still, as i said before, seems disingenuous
Man thank you surfbone, I desperately needed this video but I do have 1 question. For the author statments, aren’t we able to still use a few, since like you said “ a series wouldn’t be able to express the full detail”. Like with godzilla in hell we see that Godzilla kills 2 giant monster mountains, that are presumably gods, that’s all the comics say. But when you get the author statments you know those 2 god mountains also created the idw verse and they created everything and nothingness. Do we still use those statments to fill in the gaps?
in one punch man chapter 167, in the next to last panel, the drawing shows cosmic garou punching saitama in the face and it looks like saitama is spitting blood. both saitama's blood splatter and cosmic garou's fist travel past the manga panel!
would you consider this drawing a 4th wall break just like or similar to the drawing of kid goku breaking the manga panel?
W video Surfbone
I usually look at TH-cam find feats then I recalc the feats
Question
What is a positive claim?
That question is a deep one,but the jist is that a positive claim is one where youre saying something is X rather than a negation
So there is a hole at the bottom of the sea
As opposed to
No I dont think there is a hole at the bottom of the sea.
I didn't even have "scaling" in mind when I clicked this video. I only wanted to see a video on research in general. That being said I still found this to be quite helpful. The only point I disagree with is when you alluded to the concept of the death of the author and said that the author's statements aren't the absolute truth. I still believe that the author first and foremost has the most authority over their work and that while interpretations are fine, people tend to go too far or see things that aren't there, and thus the author is still the ultimate authority imo.
Writers can be straight up wrong about their own work, for example: Akira Toriyama (The writer of Dragon Ball) has forgotten the difference between super saiyan 2 and 3. And has even discredited himself, saying the daizenshuu is a better source of information on the series than his own word.
i needed this
Out of curiosity. Where would a character scale if they remember changes in the timeline. indirectly created a fixed point in time. And discovered they are a universal constant. But in the cosmology nobody truly has free will do to Destiny being different in each timeline. Time and space are created by the concepts of good and evil. And causality is part of the laws of time
Nowhere, that's just cosmic awareness. Time and space being created by good and evil just upscames good and evil. Causality doesn’t have anything to do with that, but it all depends on how the verse presents "time" as being part of causality within that verse.
That's not very helpful. Also acausality in certain circumstances can be used as evidence for being more than 3 dimensional (in this case it's the character being able to be replaced by versions of themself from other timelines. Though they gain the powers. Memories. And personality of the original version of that person, through this they can remember changes in the timeline). And as I've said. In the verse it's been established that causality is part of the laws of time. This would mean you could warp reality via time manipulation and it means places without time don't have causality.
Great video.
Scan server video were?
Hey so question do you think you can scale Warframe or something it's my favorite game and i dont see people powerscale it if thats ok with you
I use your videos to teach trash scalers how to scale, while debating them 😶
I got a question will a 4d character get the abilities a 4d being would have or would they have to show those feats first
4D characters don’t necessitate certain abilities and idk why they would
@@surfbone Thank you and reason why I thought they had abilities because i heard them 4d beings could see through walls just 3d being could see through 2d walls
@@Cosmomation279 we don’t see *through* 2D walls in the way like it’s some X-Ray vision or something. We see the other side of the wall due to the different perspective we’re able to perceive things at.
@@surfboneThanks for correcting me that's what I was trying to say
I tried to join your discord server and the link didnt work :(
Bro can you scale tensura
8:47
Appeal to Niarobi fallacy detected. Video debunked. 😪
Why should we trust guidebooks but not authors? Also in the what source of info should we use section where do we even read volumes? And sorry but I'm not reading the whole manga just for one thing I'm going to the guidebooks for that.
Guidebooks are a published work thats gone through editorial
The author is just some dude hows only claim to credibility is an "ought to". I.e they ought to know not that they have to know
@@hashiondiscord8540 so guide books are more trustworthy than authors even though authors yknow wrote the damn story in the first place and if so then why do people discredit guidebooks?
@@Shadow-Astro69 why does writing a story matter, ive made dozens of maps on halo that doesnt mean i know all the best sniping spots.
A writer is ultimately another reader while a guidebook is more material.
People atempt to discredit guidebooks because they dont like the information in them
@@hashiondiscord8540 I'm sorry but a writer is NOT just another reader
And halo maps are much more different than manga
A writer is someone that makes the story and Everything in it if he says Character A is stronger than character B then what he said (if not retconed later) should be taken at face value
And people HATE dragon ball guide books does that mean everything in them is correct?
@@Shadow-Astro69 they are though
Not really
Writing a story doesnt make his opinion a fact, ultimately its the same as if I said it.
I think every guidebook should be taken case by case, the guide book does have some very helpful information but also some very wonky tid bits
Actually check out the character’s material
Woah!, who could've guess!
@@victoroliveira3577Dragon Ball fans
@@vividlantern8854 yes
Like your videos
Came to ask about the apparent inconsistency between allowing guidebooks to be used, but not Author Statements.
Seems like people are already on your ass for that, lol.
I clearly explained it in my video and so far all of the comments that have been “on my ass” for it don’t actually reference my concerns with using author statements. But Instead just criticize the idea and accuse me of being hypocritical. Which I have yet to see a valid explanation for.
I would like to know, what in what I said in the video doesn’t make sense?
@@surfbone
Aight.
I could explain the public sentiment to you.
I think it has mostly to do with a few things.
Sorry if you wanted a small comment.
In the "Ambiguity Fallacy" chapter, you are pretty clear with how you argue things are. You say that it's not necessary to look into every aspect of a property, especially when they refer to different continuities and/or form their own interpretations on the story. You apply this logic to guidebooks, and remarks how a primary source triumphs over secondary sources like guidebooks.
In this section, many, me included, believe that you imply that guidebooks, although secondary, have some level of inherent credibility. You do this by pointing out how Dragon Ball fans call everything a guide to try and steal the credibility of the "actual guidebooks" like the Daizenshuu and Chozenshuu. You also say that an argument doesn't "have" to be related to a guidebook, which means you still "can" do it, which seems to be a 180 from what you say in the next chapter regarding Author Statements (AS). Your position in making this a different chapter from AS not being evidence also supports this interpretation.
Another statement I believe people use to point an apparent contradiction is this one:
*"Fundamentally, a guidebook should be this material published with sole purpose of explaining the work in question, since a series can't always go into super discreet detail about every technique, ability and or cosmological structure without sacrificing the pacing."*
Compared to the following chapter, "Why Author Statements Are NOT Evidence", the positions you took prior seem off.
In this part, you say that AS are not an acceptable source, and that the root of it is that they aren't in nor are part of the story. Well, by this logic, the use of guidebooks should also not be acceptable as they are not in the story nor are part of it, they exist to explain a story that can live without them.
Not only that, but your counter-argument to the objection that "something Kishimoto said about Naruto should be valid because he is it's creator" is that "Why doesn't he write that statement in the manga, then?". This rebuttal seems tone-deaf when put side to side with the statement I highlighted: well, what if he couldn't do it?
The last remarkable remark - pun intended - seen in this part is that authors are just as fallible or capable of making mistakes as anyone else. With the proposition that guidebooks are inherently valid, this would be contradictory, as many of them are made with or by the creator, and not only that, but they are produced by another team made by humans that, just like the creator, are fallible. This would also ignore work culture in manga where many times the creators are regarded as "the untarnished truth" by the staff responsible for the guides. The presence of an editorial figure on one side doesn't make it valid if we are taking this point to the utmost.
If I were to make a TL;DR, it would basically just be centered on supplementary material and/or guidebooks being a case by case while author statements are just blatantly ignored.
If I were to make a small comment that would phrase the main problem people seem to have, it would be:
"Quick question.
You said that guidebooks can serve a purpose in explaining the main source and are mostly used due to the nigh-impossibility of working extensive explanations within the story due to problems with pacing and more. However, you also stated that Author Statements are not valid evidence.
If an Author is asked about something in his own series and can work an explanation about in an interview or something alike, separate from the main source, how would that at all differentiate it from a guidebook that is claimed to be valid?"
@@surfbone5:37 that what I am dealing debating death fanboys they said this
"I aM dEAth StraigHt UP"🤡🤡🤡🤡 how does this exactly make you the embodiment of death 💀💀💀
Also thanks man now I can finally reaserch something I didnt know how
scale?
Not really related to the topic but it's crazy how being a powerscaler is so similar to being a Christian, with regards to determining what's canon and what you should believe. Problems like people not checking the original source material (The Bible), the validity of secondary material, using the correct version/translation, people just adopting the beliefs of some random priest/scholar/apologist, etc. If you're Christian, consider re-watching the video but replace "Naruto" and "Dragon Ball" with "The Bible".
I'm not trying to evangelise or trying to make any random topic about Christianity, just found the parallels a bit odd.
7:35 Amateur, you already started with a massive red herring, as the author writes his and he can choose what he writes in it, to say otherwise is very dishonest. Plus you already admitted on the use of guidebooks and what they do, ie expand on the story and add some clarity, its funny you followed it up author statements as not being valid right as you just came of saying why guidebooks would be valid, its hilarious how amateurish you are if you can't even realize the inconsistency in your own script.
I also think this needs to be said since illiterate people like you and Noodles toss this around like a silver bullet but don't even know what it even means and that is Death of the Author. Death of the Author simply means that the reader's interpretation is just as valid as that of the author to a story that was already left ambiguous to begin with, this is a subjective thing to something that isn't even remotely related to scaling at all and holds close to no place to begin with, as scaling looks at feats something we can literally see on screen happening. The example with Naruto since you were using that, Naruto in the Chunin exams defeating Neji something that happens on screen and we can see objectively and there's nothing in regards to interpretation that one can spin as Neji winning someone as we all have eyes. This is like scaling101 maybe you should look back at your old videos if you can't even remember what scaling is, especially if you're saying Death of the Author when its completely unrelated to scaling as that implies that scaling uses things that are ambiguity to begin with, which I should add should be clear why ambiguous things aren't used for scaling because it'd be no different than making a no limits fallacy or an appeal to ignorance fallacy. The fact that you guys don't even know what Death of the Author is but toss it around is just hilarious, like watching children play with guns.
Exactly,these types of people are like anti intellectuals,naruto isnt real,its a work of fiction,its just an author trying to portray an idea towards you.If he changed his mind,then the entire work of fiction changes,because it only exists as a means for HIM to express his thoughts,not as its own material.
Got a pseudo in here.
@@princelamar1735 You think Appeal to Reality is a fallacy alongside the clown who made this video and just made an insult without refuting the Op, you have no space to call other people pseudos.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 As the other dude pointed out the other op did not point out when surfbone did not follow his own research, so there’s no point in “proving him wrong” when he didn’t substantiate his claim. And yes the appeal to reality is a fallacy when it comes to interpreting fiction, because when you interpret the story you’re trying to determine what is true within that story and what is true within a story can be unbound by the limits of reality. So interpreting fiction while being limited to what you think is possible in reality is flawed when trying to to go by what’s true in the fictional world, pointing out that humans can’t control fire in real life has nothing to do with people being able to fire bend in avatar for example. So yes from a power scaling perspective as well as just interpreting stories, appeal to reality is a legit fallacy as it’s flawed.
So bringing up real world limitations to refute things like innacesible speed will not help your case.
As for this op, it’s really just a matter of understanding what is the material vs what is the author, so he’s just making up a contradiction for surfbone. He also doesn’t understand that noodles and surfbones use of death of the author is related to scaling as they just point out that author statements which is sometimes used for scaling isn’t real evidence with the death of the author in mind, because as the op said it means the author statement has no more validity then a reader. So rather then surf and noodles saying death of the author is related to scaling, it’s moreso they use death of the author to also explain why author statements don’t work for scaling either as they aren’t evidence. This is something the op simply failed to consider. Neither of the two even said that you can spin an interpretation any which way so the op is just attacking a strawman after that.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 There you go, I think I made my point on why the op is the clown here if you read the bottom half of my comment, the top half explains why the appeal to reality is in fact a fallacy.
gta san andreas is epic
W🤘🏾❤
😂😂😂 love the content
cell from dragon ball is outervarsal debit me
Don’t care, didn’t ask
@@surfbone touches children
@@surfbone cells explosion was seen in the other world which transcended beyond space and time done
Doesn't comp dragonball caps at galaxy level ??
@@Bts.capcutpro eh multi-Versel for cannon comp is like hyper that's just Imo