Travis Scott, and parasocial relationships
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- cw: astroworld tragedy
why are some defending travis scott for his recent actions? is it as simple as "travis scott fans are jerks"? or have a bunch of conditions in our world created more and more incentive for people to take to the internet and defend celebrities they connect to--even when it seems illogical and wrong?
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00:00 - intro
02:01 - part 1: context
08:55 - part 2: defending travis, and parasocial relationships
16:49 - part 3: conclusion (accountability is a dream)
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specifically with the parasocial commentary, which has been in the back of my mind for a long time. since as a kpop stan i often hear shit like “you know they aren’t your friends/girlfriends right?” like yea ..doesn’t mean there isn’t a relationship. there is a tradeoff happening: i support artists i enjoy (monetarily, vocally, whatever), and in return they work to produce art and content i enjoy. i’m grateful to them and i might even love them, in an abstract way, as they impact my life positively. they are then grateful to us, and might even love us, as we support them and help them achieve their dreams.
parasocial relationships are not as delusional, “they are my close personal friend” as most papers make out. but they aren’t just money money money like those same papers claim is reality.
sorry if this is convoluted or confusing!! parasocial relationships are something i’ve been thinking about a lot and i’m excited to discuss this but don’t yet have it totally organised in my head
Another thing I am grateful to BTS: to find your TH-cam channel. How can I say this? I wish you had been one of my College professor: I would understood and learned so much more than I do. Amazing essay.
I think focussing on the fans' reaction was the right decision at this moment. Crowd crush is a horrific and complicated topic, especially when you're trying to assign blame. I remember the Love Parade 2010 disaster, and the legal case against the personnel was only laid to rest last year.
One topic that wasn't mentioned in this video, but jumped out at me, was the performative masculinity of it all - the way Travis Scott advertised his concerts as "rage" events and the reaction of the fan on the left at 5:38, going on about "soft babys" whose "feelings are hurt". I say performative because, while moshing has a long tradition, the first rule between fans and musicians is always to take care of the people around you, and make sure nobody gets seriously hurt. Like Playboi Carti said in the clip Fantano showed: "I care about you guys, safety first!"
So as a fan of Travis Scott, you have two ways out of this dilemma: Either he actually cares, and it was just impossible for him to notice the situation, or caring is for weak people and you ridicule anyone who criticizes him.
I swear your channel is so underrated. I love the way you're consistently always so insightful with ur research and commentary. Keep up the good work! 👏
a real cool person once told us to have hobbies and interests…outside of our interest! Fandom life is fun but it’s not everything. 👆
Things would so much better if people understood that everything is not black and white. Infact a lot of stuff can be handled better if people perceive things as shades of grey.
I feel like the best you can do with parasocial relationships is maintain it in a healthy way like you would any relationship
I feel like the internet interpretation that parasocial relationships are inherently toxic is a very damaging interpretation, cause it scolds people for forming relationships that are inevitably form in this day and age. And I feel like this mentality has, ironically enough, put people under the illusion that they do not have a parasocial relationships.
I've seen many instances where a content creator will make insensitive or even bigoted comments towards artists and when fans of the artists come to the artists defense and try to explain to the creator why what they said was wrong fans of the creator will come in and fight the artists' fans saying that their criticism is void because of their parasocial relationship with the artist -completly lacking self awareness to realize what that are currently doing-
I've also see people try to categorize themselves away from what they perceive to be bad fans, and a lot of the categorization is centered around propping up being a casual fan of something over being a more parasocial stan "I'm a fan of ___ but I'm not a *stan*" (which is funny tbh cause fan is short for "fanatic" and years back would have been used the same way someone nowadays would used the word "stan")
Imo ignoring your parasocial relationships just leaves them to rot (turn toxic) because you're probably not gonna take time to step back if you don't feel like you're the kind of person who should be stepping back.
ooo interesting topic... my curiosity is really high!
Edit: This was very heavy but thought provoking. Great video!
This video made me think a lot about this issue.
Many people are sort of dehumanize these “stans”, like they a mindless.
And that minimizes how much influence these celebrities can have on us.
While this tragedy should be a wake up call to other artist, it should also be a warning to all of us.
To keep ourselves in check, when it comes to enjoying and indulging in celebrity culture/entertainment.
Good video Elliot!
I knew when I watched that first video 2 ish years ago that you were worth the time and you’ve never proven me wrong. As always appreciate the nuance and respect with which you engage all topics. This was insightful and thought provoking. Keep on keeping on.
I’d love to see your response to the screenshot of that bts rant that you showed near the end of the video! As always, this was a wonderfully insightful and well-spoken video. Holding people accountable in times like these are really important. I can’t even imagine what the families of those hurt by this tragedy are going through.
YES...I was waiting for you to talk about it...
Another great essay Elliot!
It's so important to be critical and evaluate decisions even when they may relate to something one holds very dear. It shouldn't be all in or all out. It's not so simple. It shouldn't be so simple.
i really appreciate the compassion and nuance you have when you present your ideas, especially while addressing sensitive topics. its rare to see sometimes, so thank you! also looking forward to the ep next month...
When I saw this notification I knew I would immediately be interested
I feel so angry that a kid as small as 14 died in a concert, where he went to enjoy..... THIS COULD'VE BEEN PREVENTED!!!!!!
A 9 years old just passed from brain dead.
one of the best video essayists out there, super glad to see another upload from you :)
I love how well thought out and thorough your videos always are.
Such a very well researched poiny of view. Totally agree with your narrative.
this was a great video. i appreciate your nuanced, human take on parasocial relationships
Day 317 of wondering why Elliot doesn’t have a lot more subscribers
I can't say I've never done this, but total hero worship is never a good thing. Interested to watch this.
Ngl I do think people are focusing too much on Travis Scott while letting the concert host company and security and assholes in the crowd taking pics/videos with the dead bodies a free pass. Like I just genuinely wish everyone who allowed that awful night to take place, and did nothing while people were yelling for help, would be held accountable, or at least learn something from it. Argghhhh hope that makes sense. I just feel like people go after the big name because it’s big and easy and public, and yes absolutely he should be held accountable, but damn this energy should extend in other directions as well.
Yeah, but I guess until the public sees any sincere and real apology and accountability from him they would only get angrier and angrier as time draws longer
Yes. This kind of tragedy has happened in various places around the world and are always a factor of múltiple problems
there were people in vip who had been helped out, kylie can not say that she did not know it and that Travis did not see it! they are to blame, that concert should have stopped when people broke in over the fence as there was no room for so many people.
several times you hear help (STOP THE SHOW) from the audience, and there is even someone calling 911, from the pile of people.
they must be sued, even the police for not having intervened.
Sue them
this shit slaps i should’ve never doubted
21:59 can you elaborate more about your thoughts om such venting posts
I wanna watch that
This tragedy really makes me concern regarding BTS's LA concert even though it's stadium. ARMYs, please be mindful of the people around you. You are in the same fandom and should help each other out. I still can't believe people would trampled the 9 years old kid. How are they not see someone next to them on the floor?
Crushes happen when the people in the back of a crowd think there's enough space towards the front than there actually is. Since they think there is still space to move forward, they continue to push, while the people in front slowly get crushed. Even worse, if they fall during a crush they'll likely end up getting trampled, and there's hardly anything you can do once you're in the situation. Which is why Travis Scott stopping the concert was necessary.
BTS are always super careful when it comes to stampedes. When I was at one of their concerts, I was almost a bit sad how much space there was on the floor even though the show was sold out twice but now I appreciate it.
At this point the court should simply ban him from doing any performances anymore, since he create such dangerous situations whenever he does.
👏👏👏
Thank you for sharing your point of view. It is healthy to discuss. I agree on the point that Travis has responsibility as the one holding the venue. Can you say he insighted a riot this time? No, not from what I have seen so far. Could he have stop the concert? If he was told, sure. Did they tell him? He hired Live Nation to make sure everything was put in place as required by city safety ordinance. But it seems like barricades were missing to section off groups. Were they not there? Who is responsible for setting that up? The police not assisting people out of the crowd who were suffocating and asking for help. Policeman, "Everyone is saying that. We are not letting anyone out." Some else called saying there are people that might be dead over here. Help us. Police, "We heard about it already." They walked away or ignored many especially early on in the concert. The medical/emergency paramedics. Why is the witness account that they had to take the initiative to do things because they did not seem to know what to do? The concert goers were ultimately taking more necessary action by getting more people to help provide aide. They had to ask the hired medical to bring a BVM - Bag Valve Mask. They had to go look and only provided one. They were asked to check for pulse with close to a dozen people on the ground getting cpr. One medic said he did not know how to do that. A woman was put on a stretcher and then she slid off and was dropped on her face. People need to make copies and post these vids everywhere. In all of this, where are the authority figures that should be directing the medics, the police, the concert staff, and management of Travis himself. Theses entities were to be in constant communication in case of emergencies. Travis himself needed to be aware of what he should have done to assist. He is responsible for holding that microphone and how he used it. You will find out, like the fire chief said, they did not want an angry mob on their hands and that may be part of the delay in action to reach Travis to stop the concert. I only heard one song from Travis Scott. Not a fan. Do not know him. These questions I ask is literally logical. Who was in charge of these entities that were to keep concert goers safe? Why would children be allowed in there? How is Travis responsible for the entities he hired not doing their jobs. If they are licensed medics, they will be responsible for part within their control. The media hyping this up into the biggest witch hunt to fault Travis everything. He has some responsibility, but not all. I laugh when any mention of infighting a riot when people were attacked and threatened at pumpkin head rallies all the way to killing people in an long charged champagne to do so from the speaker podium and none of them were charged with anything. So excuse me while I laugh about the irony. We can also compare other concerts and see what was the situation in comparison. But I see the media is just going for villanizing TS even after getting eye-witness account of the lack of police response and inept medical response.
If the crowd had pushed up so much that they were standing on bodies, what happens when an ambulance is driven into the crowd. Would they push forward more causing more injury? At least Travis said make way for them at that moment, but it should have stopped at this point. The first people hurt was right before Travis Scott got on stage. The crowd even broke barricades hours earlier and trampled some people then. The signs were there. Who were the troublemakers? I think the FBI should be looking closely at that.
Live Nation is managing BTS' concert.
i do agree that there is a drastic amount of blame shifted on travis for this incident, to the effect of subconsciously avoiding holding police and major corporations accountable and instead creating something of a Culture War. but i do also recognize there were numerous things travis could have done wayyyyyy better, before during and after the events, and that a lot of this falls on him
Why is it for people to realize that all it takes is compassion and care for the fans? If you look at his past history, he has no concern towards his fans. If he really cares about the people who give him money, he would’ve made sure his fans are in good condition just like many other artists. He stopped for a couple min and that’s it from what I seen. He didn’t even tell the crowds to make way for the ambulance. Any normal decent human being would have concern if it’s that serious.
@@hoanhuynh7059 Hi Hoan. He did tell them to spread out and let the ambulance pass. This is when he then asked if everyone is okay to raise your middle finger. People did everywhere in the crowd. So it is hard to tell from his perspective if things were as severe as they turned out to be. An official was suppose to come up right away as soon as he is having to pull 5 out from the very start of the concert that he needs to tell them to hold so they can take care of the issue. There was chaos hours before this concert started. People broke barricades and trampled people to break through. That had nothing to do with Travis. This is not uncommon at many concerts for other artists. Whatever happened in the past he is already dealing with. It has nothing to do with the lack of proper measures that should have been in place to make sure everyone is safe. Travis will bare part of the blame, but safety is exactly on the head of the safety planners which should have had Travis' management at the table to know what to do. I am not going to a concert thinking Travis is singing so he will keep me safe. tf no. Police, security, medical services, city safety requirements to even get a license to put on this concert has to be followed. It's not about Travis for me. These officials are suppose to take immediate action just like terror attack prevention. They were to communicate to Travis or the Concert Coordinator to stop the concert while they get the injured. From the fire chief, "We did not know how to contact them." It is about the lack of communication, action, prevention, experience, authority figures, an a semblance to care, clumsy handling, almost no equipment to keep more than one person alive. Travis was not saying what he said in the past. He noticed something in the crowd and said hey that guy passed out. Don't touch him. He points and says someone needs help over there. He continues the concert. He is suppose to is what the artists are taught to avoid having an angry mob. The same police and emergency management would say that. Which is why it takes them to communicate with a Travis's manager if something is not working out and they need him to stop or use the microphone to assist. Travis has his part of responsibility no matter what, because he is holding the microphone, but he is not the source of safety for the concert goers.
If someone is interested: this is another video (podcast) on parasocial relationships I really liked
th-cam.com/video/c9YJKLxd2UU/w-d-xo.html
Or in short, people don’t want their own lifestyle, like music choice etc, getting shamed by society, so they try to defend it, even with delusional reasoning.
"ignorance is a bliss"
idk if this take is going to be good honestly …
i mean there's only one way to find out
@@bbygang so true
So, what did you think? I think it’s quite a good and balance take on things
@@bembolbug very good!!
the pepe makes me cry
TS is screwed. It’s gonna hit his bank account big time.
I never understood how people can say artists like Travis Scott “saved” them. Dude’s music is nice but to go to that extent, like does he show some kind of special connection to his fans besides the occasional on camera charity work? Idk maybe I’m cynical or hypocritical seeing as I do stan bts and completely see why someone would say people like that “saved” them, but even then it’s always kind of a eye roll statement for me. I guess I just don’t know what it’s like to be that depressed. Anyway, great video. You were very respectful about the situation.
compassion will bring you understanding
I mean people would say the same about bts if they’d only heard their popular singles. Music is a very powerful thing that can have a great emotional impact on people in many different ways. I don’t find it hard to understand that there are people who connect with different types of music and artists in very strong ways😅
Maybe we don’t have enough knowledge about his music just like how people would misunderstand BTS. My nephew listens to him too like so many young people here who are so used to raps talking about women, sex and drug. I am a little worried for the future generation. Watching his past history make me disgusted how he treats his fans and don’t care about their safety.
says the channel dedicated to defending the moral decay that is the K Pop industry. like, cmon LOL