why are people unstanning?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2020
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today's video is a kind of op-ed exploration on the potential issues with a trend of publicly "unstanning" an artist.
written and narrated by Elliot Sang
edited by Danae O.
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Unstanning an artist isn't the problem for me. It's the people that proudly parade the fact around, and those that make TH-cam videos and Twitter threads about it. Some of them dissuade others from giving an artist a fair chance and forming their own opinion about them.
It's like still making an unpopular opinion video. It's not cool anymore; people just use it to hate on artists and say the same old actually quite popular opinions. That's what I usually find under those "unstan" videos as well
You make a v fair point and I’m happy you said this. Yes I have unstanned some groups myself, but most of the time it’s been b/c I’ve fallen out of love with their music, but it hasn’t stopped me from still consuming their content. Just b/c I unstan doesn’t mean I hate the group (which some people may think) but rather that I’ve become a more casual fan typically.
you might enjoy this vid
@@bbygang please make a video on how western media discredits BTS' hard work and how some white people takes credits of BTS' and poc's work.
And also time magazine... 😊
@@mydna8372 Oooh, I support this idea so much! It was so gross how they were like, "Meet the writer behind Boy with Love (etc)", but when you look it up they like, mixed a portion or two and had nothing to do with the lyrics at all (because of course they didn't), and then they don't even bother to mention BH's amazing in-house producers.
@@bbygang I really enjoyed the video!😄 You said what I was thinking in a much more organised and detailed way.
I remember when unpopular opinions became a thing a few years ago, it was so easy for them to become a breeding ground for hate and negativity, and it still hasn't changed. Same thing with these "why I unstanned videos". There are some genuinely valid ones, but people are high jacking them just to be jerks, and I'm sick of seeing it. You know what they say, "this isn't an airport, you don't have to announce your departure".
Hi
I'm your moot. Nice to meet you here.
@@iyanuayoade4586 Ayyyy Captain Lu nice to see you here
i remember when i first got into kpop and started seeing all these unstanning videos (mainly about blackpink and bts) popping up on my page I thought they would be more serious about bringing awareness to possible problematic behaviours that the members/group did or were bringing to light things that actually mattered but after watching a few they all turned out to be people getting mad at the fandoms for being "toxic". people are just publicly unstanning groups and using their names and photos in their videos to get clicks and start arguments in comments sections rather than focusing on the groups they actually care about. my main thought when I see them is just "why arent you putting this much care into the group(s) you actually do stan rather than focusing on the negative?"
great video! i really enjoyed it!
100% agree! As an ARMY, I totally understand this problem. Yes, I stan BTS, but I know they’re flawed and take that into account just like other groups I stan. At the end of the day, they are still humans and they’re gonna do things we don’t like. If we don’t like things they do, it’s healthier to talk about why rather than just unstanning with no forethought. I really have been careful about my unstanning over time and I can only say I’ve unstanned maybe 10 or so groups over the course of about 10 years as a fan, mainly due to my discontentment with management/production and releasing content that just wasn’t up to par with their previous releases as a result of those issues.
Ah same here. When I first became a fan I thought I would have to stop listening to Blackpink because they did something bad only to realize it was nothing lol
I also saw that a lot... And I was having a hard time... Like, should I leave the fandom like others?... I don't have a lot of friends who are kpop stans to talk to so this always was a problem to me until I saw a post on quora saying, "REMEMBER YOU BECAME A FAN BECAUSE OF THE MUSIC, NOT THE FANDOM"... That quote hit me hard and I live by that principle. I mean, BTS, Blackpink, Stray kids etc have never wronged me so I don't have any reason to unstan
I'm afraid I'm too old for this kind of discussion. It just sounds too millennial-like to me. I just like BTS because I love their music, their message and the way they do their thing. I don't care about their fans or fandom, I care about them and what they do as artists and humans. Call me a stan or not, I don't think that's important.
I think it may be a gen-z thing, millennials are a bit too old for stan culture.
I don't know what "generation" it belongs to or whatever, but I agree. I just listen to the music I like and chill. That's literally it.
Agreed.
I once watched a video about how the BTS ARMY exhibits cult behavior and it is perpetuated by BTS themselves. It was an hour long and he quoted articles about cults, and I found it so problematic but in the comments so many were giving reasons as to why they left the Fandom like they left some religion. It was so weird.
What bothered me the most is the fact that he showed comments of ARMY helping answer questions about BTS, and he took it out of context and made them sound so sinister how ARMY "recruite" victims and such.
YIKES imagine having the audacity to twist reality and facts so much just so you could make a fandom seem like a cult- people out there really trying to spread that much negativity for no reason and frankly its sad
I mean the fandom act cultish too (of course not everyone) that most likely made their job easier to do at changing the reality.
Omg, i seen that video, to me the Video aged poorly like milk since BTS is being more and more normalize ( it's slow but happening)
Like, if your gonna call ARMY a cult, (which it is not, and is frankly, disrespectful to cult victims), they're gonna have to call TS fans a cult, BP fans a cult, Billie Eilish fans a cult, 1D fans a cult. And as we know, all of that is untrue, even if there are toxic behaviours from any of these fandoms.
@@beatm6948 don't forget the oldies, The Beatles cult
As an army, (its kinda unrelated but..) im really getting tired of the "armys are so toxic" thing, like its the only fandom that has toxic stans, hypocrisy, like people are refusing to acknowledge that every fandom has its good and its bad, they literally forget everything good armys has ever did just because an army said something bad on the internet, like they r allowed to drag bts every chance they get, they r allowed to make hate posts and make fun of them but when an army does the same the other way around , its the whole fandom's problem, and its getting ridiculous, like u would unstan a group just because bad ppl in the fandom, its the artist that u stan not the fandom and if u hate bad stans, be a good one and help others create a better environment and a better fandom instead of bashing the artist that u unstanned and running away to an another fandom that ll be the same thing I swear.
Yeah, I'm getting sick of people saying "ArMYs iS So tOXic" and "I uNStaNNed bTs beCaUsE oF tHEiR faNs"
It’s also bad for people thinking about joining Army. I remember before I joined all I heard about was the toxicity and that made me second guess myself simply because I didn’t want to associate myself with a toxic fandom. I ended up joining Army and so far I’ve met very few toxic stans.
@@awaywiththefaeries9464 That was your experience, mine's was vastly disappointing and traumatizing. Lots of kpop fans start as ARMY's yet most of them disassociate themselves from that term because of its toxicity. Its really large and I dont understand why people like this commenter bring up the same old defense. The largest fanbase will always be the most toxic one, it doesn't mean every 23 million(or more) of you guys are toxic. 20% of 23 million alone is bigger than you think. No matter what you say, people's experiences should be brought to light. Its horrible and disgusting how people disregard it by saying that unstanning a group because of fandom is not valid. Y'all do realize that being a casual listener still exists...right? I feel like stanning is when you truly are engaged and manifested inside a certain artist. That hugely includes being inside a fandom.
fr, these kpop stans will be like "i unstanned bts bcs armys are so toxic" while stanning artists whose fandoms drag bts on the daily, send de4th threats, r4pe threats, bully ppl, etc...
they have the weirdest double standards cause 90% of fanwars involving armys are started by the other fandoms, and NONE of these kpop stans actually call out their co-fandom for writing disgusting sht abt bts, but as soon as an army defends bts... coincidentally hundreds of kpop stans see ONLY the army being problematic and not the other fandom, and start dragging armys/bts only........ literally no words
especially bcs this narrative of "armys toxic" is so widespread that kpop stans constantly make tweets about us, screenshotting army's tweets that have nothing to do with them just to basically bully the op...
few days ago they made a few tweets with 100k likes, 90k likes, etc... all with the same screenshot of an army talking about how, during mama, no group was wearing a mask until bts did, and after they did everyone wore masks. these kpop stans bullied said army off twitter over it, for absolutely nothing, since a tweet like that doesnt harm anybody. and whats funny is that a representative of mama, while talking abt mama in an interview thing, confirmed that indeed idols werent obliged to wear masks on stage, but after seeing bts do so they decided to do the same....
kpop stans condemn armys and unstan bts for the same things their fandoms do to us and bts, but doing it to us and bts is okay in their mind bcs they deluded themselves into thinking we are the devil's spawn
I used to be an ARMY (I still love the boys but I just drifted away from their music idk why) and the amount of shit I got from other ARMYs was huge. It literally ruined my day. Stan twitter was absolutely toxic as hell and tumblr was filled with weird fanfics and artworks of the boys which I didn't approve of. I thought youtube would be better but the comment section who was once filled with wild theories was all filled up with spams and streams and people shouting at each other to censor vi3w and str3am (it doesn't affect anything lol)
It's always "army vs the world" and army discrediting other artists (as a fan of many 2nd gen artists, this hurts a lot), over-crediting, babying idols and using BTS's feats to drag others down. I got guilt-tripped to stream, vote, and consume every single BTS content out there. It's weird that Armys feel threatened because they have literally no need to. They're the BIGGEST fandom out there and the most powerful. People literally spread the rumour and started crying that TH-cam deleted the views or it's against BTS. Like tf? And let's not mention them bringing BTS into every unrelated conversation.
I'm SORRY my experience wasn't like you. :( I KNOW there are tons of great army over there but it was my rotten luck I couldn't meet many of them. I'm well aware of Army's charity efforts, family vibe and hard-work.
And yes, it's completely valid for someone to "unstan" a group because of the fandom. That doesn't mean you no longer listen to their music. You can follow BTS and yet never choose to become an ARMY. What makes kpop different is the amount of content and interaction with the artists and the FANS. Army are a HUGE part of BTS and will always be.
And people keep dragging Armys mostly because they are HUGE and toxic stans and newbies are probably many thousands lol. Also they are literally everywhere and constitute a large percentage whether you like it or not. It's not the fault of good Armys like you. It just is that way :(
But they'll grow up after they realize that what they're doing is wrong :D
I stan BTS for BTS not for their fandom. Nobody introduced me to BTS, I found them and I CHOSE to stan them so I wouldn't unstan them because of their 'toxic' fans nor would I make an announcement in case I unstan them. They're my PERSONAL choices in both cases!
Unless you're shedding light on someone suddenly being a terrible person, unstanning publicly is like her making an "i'm leaving" announcement in an FB group. Literally pointless and no one cares.
This was another great video! I only stan Bangtan, really. Like, I only consider myself a stan if I love nearly everything an artist puts out, know who they are and what their personality(ies) are like, and spend real actual money on their music, concerts, and occasional merchandise. I am HUGE fan of quite a few artists, but stanning is taking it to another dedicated level that is just...consistent. I don't really claim that with anyone else. It seems like people who publicly unstan were never even real stans in the beginning for the most part.
ppl don't know the difference between "stan" and "casual fan" and it shows
I think that "stanning" multiple groups has become a kpop trend honestly. If they can name all the members and find the funny or cute moments, they stan. If they like a few songs or performances, they stan. Not because they become fans so easily, but because they want that artist, that group, under their belt essentially. So the more groups you "stan" the better kpop stan you are. ł
So many multistans call out specifically ARMY's for being so fixated on just BTS, and it got to my head and I tried "stanning" other groups because I wanted to appear impressive or whatever. I like more groups now, but definitely not to the point of stanning them.
I hope that a lot of people can see this and reevaluate whether or not they really stan a group or not.
They make us feel so wronged for stanning only BTS. Like I dont stan BTS bc they're funny visually appeal to me or bc I like just a few of their songs. I was introduced to them thru a cover of BS&T on one of kpop survival show. I didnt know it was their song and didnt even know how they looked like. After I heard that song, I dugged down their mvs and songs for a month before stanning. They'll be the first and last group I stan.
THISSS!!!!
Honestly they might be kids with FOMO. They'll get over it.
"The fandom is so toxic" is not a new thing. I remember being in the homestuck fandom and people on tumblr would scream about how the homestuck fandom was soooo toxic, yet I very rarely encountered toxic fans. Online fan spaces are curated by /you/ and if you engage with toxic people your view of these fandoms will become negative. I've also seen recently a number of people unstanning 875 because they are "too popular" or since they "got big in america" which is a little bit mind boggling. Though this is also not unique, I mean lil nasx has an entire song about this...It feels like most of these things are just attention grabs. Thank you for another great video!!~
I can understand not wanting to be around negativity but why would you "unstan" an ARTIST because of some fans? I am an ARMY and there are times when others annoy me or I disagree with their opinion. But nothing they do will determine if I remain an ARMY or not. I became an ARMY to support BTS and no one else. So, if you are finding yourself around too many "toxic" people you need to check who you follow. They're probably the problem.
To add to your pov, I truly believe a vital part of the experience of being a bts fan or Stan or whatever, is army!
100% - army translators, army artists, the army medical community. Army's that disseminate news and chat about music. Army's that work hard to win our boys prizes. Army content and army art.
I'm indebted to them and embolstered as a fan by them.
And I hear the 'army's are toxic'... But I don't think I've experienced the worst of it. For one, the minute I'm not happy with the rhetoric on Twitter, I unfollow. Unfollow and mute. Simple. I only keep around a few Twitter forends/followers, that's it. And that way I get exposed to the absolutely beautiful sides of Army, the sides that BTS themselves never get tired of taking about.
Yeah, yeah, you should be a fan of BTS first and foremost, your experience shouldn't be swayed by fans... But I think it is a matter of curating. The artists I like so much talk about army _all the time_ . Jk and his endless, 'I wanna go to a coffee shop with army, I wanna go and give out hugs and hifives, I miss you' RM and his long raw letters... The kind i never really receive even from people I love and who love me irl. Jin and Suga and their quiet 'out of the way' methods of giving back, Suga's gifts and 'my dears' and Jin's donations. JHope's cultural sensitivity and care....
But even then jk has spoken about how people having his personal phone number is uncomfortable and annoying. Tae draws lines when he sees the need. JHope has said the people with cameras can be frightening.... They _love_ army, but they can be critical about it!
I live army, but you'll never catch me generalizing army as toxic, because I see that as a _you_ problem. Why are you following people that say BLM doesn't matter? Why are you following people that harass other groups? That sort of thing
(the you's above are meant in the general sense)
I always say this; everyone is responsible for their own social media experience. Frankly as an ARMY, I love going to Twitter. And I'll confidently say it's because among BigHit and BTS themselves, I follow ARMY journalists, professors, interviewers, chart data accounts, study accounts, translators, charity accounts, stuff like that. There's no individual fan accounts in my following list.
Stanning does not have to mean engaging with the fandom on social media. I’m an army and blink but I’m only on army twitter because blink twitter is just too much for me. Doesn’t mean I unstanned bp. I watch a couple of blink TH-camrs, watch bp’s reality shows, follow them on a few socials, and anticipate their comebacks. There, problem solved, I didn’t I unstan the group but I removed myself from the toxicity of the fandom
sometimes the fandom can be really important for people to stay engaged. the social media aspect is a huge part of being a fan for them. if they end up seeing fan after fan being toxic, it can ruin the whole thing. as soon as they try to ditch the fandom and just stan the group, it's a lot more difficult to keep up. and seriously, it's near impossible to completely avoid toxic fans. trust me, it's not about who you follow. I don't have twitter so my only interaction with kpop fandoms is in youtube comments and my Instagram discover page. I got sick and tired of a fandom real quick, so imagine what it would be like for someone who really needs that fandom engagement. they will probably still be a casual fan, but it could really be difficult to remain a "stan," so they "unstan."
@@lightishredgummi9654 you need to be in one hell of a toxic fandom if stanning the media they follow isn't possible without seeing toxic fans
I saw a twt post about the 1% theory. Basically it states that within any community(e.g. fandoms) 1% of that group of people will be problematic. It describes why bigger fandoms are often seen to be more toxic than smaller fandoms when thats not actually the case.
According to the theory, a fandom of 100 people 1 person will be toxic. The other 99 people within that fandom can easily ignore or overshadow this one person. But a fandom of 1 000 000 people will have 10 000 toxic people. Those 10 000 support each other, it's much easier for them to be loud and continue to spread toxicity. It's a lot harder for the rest of the fandom to control them. Outsiders may only see that part of the fandom and generalise the entire fandom as toxic. As an army, I do believe this is what happens to us.
There is one more element since late 2018 and up until now, for some reason it seems to be a rite of passage in other fandoms that hate BTS or ARMY to create an account & pretend to be a BTS Stan, trash the group you REALLY Stan or other groups to make it look like ARMY is even MORE toxic. It is absolutely rediculous.
That does make sense actually 🤔
It's annoying lol imagine some hates making your fandom look bad and then your fandom getting blamed
Some of the worst reasons for "unstanning" are hen people say the artist has gotten too popular.....like did u really stan in the firat place?
This was another great video Elliot! Can't wait for the next one
Yeah! *COUGH COUGH SQUISHY MIN YOONGI COUGH COUGH*
(Is that right? I can’t remember)
@@mariekuelbs9347 yes lol. She unstanned BTS because they were too "popular" for her and then started to stan NCT.
*cough cough squishy min yoongi*
good job, perfectly said everything i personally agree with. gonna reiterate what i said in the chat: we fall out of love with artists we used to listen to and follow and care about, real life happens, brain things happen, they stop being appealing, they stop making music that was good, or they just end up hurting people. don't make unstanning your villain origin story, too many fans see themselves as avengers it's just not good for either party tbh you just clog a bunch of people's tl it's a mess.
and please stop shading artists you never actually liked/ secretly listen to.. for clout, we know when you do it, none of you are subtle you Want us to know it and then cry wolf when the feral side attacks you. and if toxic fans are really hindering your enjoyment of the music! curate your circle or completely avoid them! your playlists are yours alone! not a single army can stop me from enjoying my favorite exo tracks (fan of music, forget their names a lot).
i have plenty of friends who'd die for btxt's music alone but don't even know their last names, just putting it out there. let's use 'fan' more often.
this!!! Honestly unstanning is a bittersweet thing for me because of exactly what you said. An artist/thing you used to love and you’re moving on for whatever reason. But people use it so casually to the point I couldn’t care less when they say unstan. People who want to vocalize unstanning, while maybe unintentionally, display opinions that try to have other people adopt the same ideas. If they unstan because of toxicity in the fandom, are they not indicating they were also part of said fandom or...?? At least don’t act above everyone else. Whatever they imagine when they think of army (just for example... there’s A LOT of people who consider themselves an army in the world really) or any other fandom really it’s just a bunch of *people* who go to school or work, have friends, kids, families, have other interests etc etc. shoving an entire following (+the artist consequently) into a box based off the impression they got off of that one corner of stan twitter is a no
@@igu4443 seriously, this trend of declaring "i'm unstanning them!!" and then making weird provocative tweets or whole videos on Why.. like chill out??? actual stans who cared for the idols and the idols broke their hearts by being racist or homophobic or w/e have an entirely different way of handling it, with exceptions of course. if an act has been harmful, unapologetically so, call them out let others know.. but lying, saying half truth, making posts just to spread baseless hate and rumors and ruin a lot of people's day just for clout.. what are we supposed to do! sorry your own fandom doesn't give you enough attention? it is ridiculous! it's not even stans who do this. the amount of ex armys who can't live w/o that attention they used to get, especially content creators, it's very concerning i hope they get better.
(i don't mean you as in /you/ i mean them)
Completely agree, I don't understand why people say they unstanned because of a fandom, just ignore it or don't associate yourself with those people. Like he said if you really like an artist why is the fandom bothering you so much that you won't listen to their music, it's something private after all. Also I don't understand why people feel pressured or a certain pride in calling themselves a stan, you can be a fan of an artist and listen to them casually or intensely, that's fine.
The Inherent Comedy Of Stock Images uwu
There is one exception where I think its important to let people know you've unstanned on social media:
If you've created a decent community/following off of stanning a particular artist and you've unstanned and are going to continue stanning another artist with the same account, I do think your friends/audience should know so they have an option of unfollowing because they no longer want to see your content. But even then I don't think its necessary to have to say WHY.
Other than that the weird grandiose youtube videos and twitter threads are so unnecessary and self important.
The "toxic fandom" excuse is so confusing. You like an artist for their music, personality and the message they impart. But unstanning because of a fandom implies that the fandom has changed your taste in music which is quite senseless. It makes people like me wonder whether that person supported the artist in the right way.
"YOU COULD'VE KEPT IT TO YOURSELF INSTEAD OF BEING DRAMATIC ABOUT IT!" LOL! I'M DYING.
But to add my worthless two cents, any artist I spend money on is an artist I stan. It takes way more than me simply being a fan of your music or occasionally watching you in an interview to go to the lengths of buying your music or a concert ticket. All music can be downloaded for free and I'm very content to view live performances through a screen. So buying your albums and concert tickets is me spending money on something I don't particularly need. I'm spending because you have managed to take up so much of my attention and make me happy, that I have become invested in furthering your career. I want to be part of your story. I want to say "I was there." I literally only stan 3 groups/artists, each to varying degrees, because it is such a rare occurrence for me. For all other music making folk I am either a fan (I'll follow your releases and listen to your albums), or a casual listener (anywhere from downloading a few title tracks to not minding when your song comes on shuffle). Therefore my only reasons for un-stanning would be loss of interest or the artist displays behavior that I just cannot stand behind- but I always simply purge my playlist and move on quietly. No need to make a fuss.
Moni Muppet
I got the same view as you except for the concert part. Like going to a concert to see a person live is such an experience and I don't have to stan the artist in order for me to go to their concerts. I just need to be a fan of them, so I know that I like and enjoy their overall content.
I didn't go to a Nickelback, Pink, Justin Bieber or Blackpink concert because I stan them. I went because I generally enjoy their music and going to a concert is an amazing experience. However for me to even consider buying an album or other merchandise is when I consider myself a stan, since I actively want to support the artist even though most of the content is for free and I don't really need those BTS shirts or dolls 😂
@@dharling97 I feel you on the concert part. I'm just not big on crowds or drunk people, so I really need to know the artist is going to put on a spectacular show for me to feel it's worth dealing with those two things. Beyonce's Formation tour was one such show.
@@monimuppet6132
That's understandable, that can make it hard to enjoy!
the amount of why i unstanned bts and blackpink videos i’ve seen oooof, some of them are straight up rude it’s weird just say you don’t like their music anymore and move on
'Why i unstanned' topic mostly have bp videos
a lot of people listen to 2 songs from a group and immediately think they already stan, it's like being a casual listener doesn't exist. if i followed this logic I would be a "stan" of almost the whole kpop industry
the sad thing is that the people watching your channel would probably won't make an "unstanning video". and those who do, will see your title and won't want to listen
This is a good analysis of the unstanning culture. I agree that people should be more careful who they declare to stan because there are levels. As said fan =/= stan. If you kinda like 3 or so songs from an artist and like how they dance or dress, you're a casual listener or a fan. Not a stan. People generally will like many different artists and music but they don't "stan" all of them. The only issue here is, who gets to decide who is a stan and who isn't? It is an individual's choice at the end of the day.
Ohhhh I love the last part, some people said like if you don't do this and that you are not a stan, which always kinda annoys me bc of what you said, everyone has a different experience with the artist and the art so idk hahaha.
I don’t typically get invested enough to say I stan someone so I’ve never experienced it.
From the definition of stan that he uses in this video, I can pretty much say I stan BTS, but I’m just a fan of the other artists I listen to
Lachimolala yea I don’t vote or stream but I do care about them more than usual so I guess I do stan? But I don’t participate in most stan behaviors if that makes sense.
Hello. I'm from Namibia. My country's right above South Africa and that's why you've never come across my name and will probably never be able to pronounce it correctly.
I'm 22 years old and according to your chart I stan BTS. I stan BTS quietly. I'm not on most of the major social media platforms. I choose to inform myself about BTS and Kpop through online articles and TH-cam videos like yours.
I really enjoy your videos. 'Hope you're well and keeping safe.
💜🌻🌼
Hi
I'm from Nigeria. Do you know BTS is releasing a new single August 21st?
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too. Yeah. I head about it. I'm really excited about their new single.
Hello,
I'm from Malawi, so I can relate to people not knowing my country.
Like you I guess im a BTS stan too...but im a quiet stan.
I genuinely like them but choose to stay away from social media platforms like twitter and Instagram.
Hi, I’m from South Africa... I’m also a quiet stan. Nice to meet you all🌈
@@sonalimorar117 Nice to meet you!
We love South Africa here 💜
I feel like the community is an important part of my definitions of "Stanning", especially in Kpop which is so reliant on the fans. From having special names given to fans (Something seen in the west, but they usually aren't dressed as so), to specific colors. A large part of the Kpop experience relies on having a community, It's not as fun to Stan a group when you have no one to talk about it with. Every fandom has it's bad apples, and the larger the fandom, the more of those bad apples there will be. It's usually this vocal minority that will ruin the community experience for someone and overall enjoying the artist. You may not feel comfortable listening to someone if you know your experience with those who they attract has been nothing but toxic and hateful. I think it asks a larger question of whether it's the community's job to silence this toxic, yet louder minority.
I feel like disengagement is often better than trying to silence people in such cases. Similar to troll behavior, the more you engage with them, the more they put your mood down
Roman In communities THAT big there is really no way for the community at large to silence toxicity. People should be discouraging that behavior at large, but other fans nor BTS have control over the people that choose to join these spaces
i usually unstan silently i feel like if you feel the need to publicly say ur unstanning its just kinda clout chasing
2:23 i think about people with display names that look like this so often it fascinates me because like for me to "stan" someone i would really need to feel connected to them on some emotional level but for them it looks like they're collecting groups like they're pokémon and i've never really seen something like that outside kpop?
Anyways if you see me unstanning bts it will be because they commited a federal crime or something like that since they make bops and have proven themselves to be quite decent dudes
Ex ARMYs literally have group hugs and therapy sessions on twitter 😂
You're right that being more cautious about "stanning" mitigates risk of disappointment. You'll also be more focused on the music/content rather than get caught up in fandom drama. I agree that fandoms can be very toxic, but people often don't cultivate a positive fandom experience. Blocking, muting, reporting, and unfollowing go a long way!
I agree with everything you said, I feel like people need to relax and just enjoy the music, if you like an artist. just enjoy it, you don't need to treat it like a job, you don't have to get involved in the fandom, like all their songs (some people think it's wrong to dislike songs from your favorite artist), stream their songs (they also shame people who don't or they don't sleep or eat just to stream). Enjoy the music, you don't need to make it the most important thing in your life, you won't disappoint the artists or something. Do what makes you happy and don't do anything to feel pressured to.
Hot take: If you unstanned because of some toxic fans then maybe you’ve never stanned the Artist in the first place.
Not really but ok
I’m very glad this video touches on one aspect of (K-Pop) stan culture that really bothers me. The commodification of fan love and the labour aspect of fandom are something I often feel very uncomfortable with, but I hardly see addressed anywhere.
So glad I found your channel. Informed research is so hard to come across these days.
its incredibly easy to to curate your timeline. see something you dont like? block. see somebody say something that's really offensive and completely out of pocket? report and then block. No one forces you to engage with people who say or do things you dont like. and if you supposedly dont like the fandom, dont unstan and become an anti, why tf are you gonna hate on the people who were apparently so important to you at one point?
Idk why people who unstan turn into antis. I've quietly left fandoms plenty of times but I guess they want clout with other fandoms. 🤷🏿♀️
@@usagi907 exactly, you dont have to announce to the masses that you're unstanning. Just stop supporting them lmao
completely agree with u. it's funny cause i had both a similar yet quite opposite experience to unstanners of bts. i got into bts in 2015-2016 which lead me to discover kpop. at the time i was 14-15 and i got into the whole "i see an idol, wanna know who they are, discover some of their music, like a couple songs, and then *boom* i stan them". that went on for some time until i basically listened to literally every kpop group/idol ever and """stanned""" like 50+ of them. i was a young teenager and stanning new kpop groups was my hobby. then i joined stan twitter in early 2018, after having avoided it cause every person was like "armys are so toxic" "twitter stand are toxic" and to my surprise, when i started looking at what went on with my actual eyes, armys werent as toxic. in fact, when i saw some sort of fanwars, i looked for who started it and what was being said, and realized: 1) the large majority are started by the other fandom dragging bts
2) kpop stans never bothered to call out the toxicity of their own, never bothered to defend bts, but bashed armys as a whole for stuff, often joined by other fandoms always siding with the others, but never with armys, even if the other fandom was at fault
3) even if the other fandom is making the most vile and disgusting things, armys somehow are always blamed, at fault and the worst
i never and even now dont engage with fanwars, but, seeing the toxicity of kpop stans towards bts i, soon after joining stan twitter, """unstanned""" everyone in kpop and stayed an army only. but the truth is, while the toxicity was a factor, the thing was, i never "stanned" any of them except bts, i was only a casual listener of a bunch of kpop idols, and, when i grew up, kpop music (except bts) wasnt my taste anymore, and the only actual connection i had with an artist was the one i had with bts. thats the reason why i could """unstan"""" over stans being toxic. so yeah, i rly would love to make a youtube video on my unstanning story, bet it would be the only one where kpop stans would say unstanning an artist because of the fandom is invalid, since having an army hate boner is the norm, but if im a bts only stan who doesnt like the other kpop fandoms im toxic
So true! I've noticed that a LOT of the times it's not ARMY who begin a fan war, but it is us who get blamed for it...
That is something I really appreciate about you- you care about putting out positivity and having respectful conversations backed up with proper research- we need more channels like bby gang 👀
People make whole videos about unstanning?? I’m glad I’m subscribed to the right channels then, because what a waste of time lmao
Also your picture of Seokjin thumbing up in the sky, I felt that.
Thank you for the video, I thought I was being “too loyal” about stanning only one group, despite enjoying several other artists. I agree with your idea about deeply connecting with an artist as the true meaning of being a stan, and wondered how gregarious multis did that, but I think you’re in the right track regarding the superficial usage of the word.
honestly i dont feel anything abt these unstanning videos at all, but i relate to what ure talking about. idols carry with themselves a heightened parasocial connection and adoration from fans, since thats their job, and that makes online spaces messy esp one like twt that thrives on short snappy emotional remarks. and thats the ground where both "stanning" and "unstanning" happens a lot of the time, its hard to measure the depth of either bc its just....twt is just stressful in itself imo. theres fomo, theres social hierarchy within fandom, theres a pull to be more honestly connected... and yea clout is a strong motivator for fandom creatives. ive been doing fanart for 5 years and just recently stopped (i still draw, i dont post currently tho). i tried doing bts fanart at one point and dropped it bc the fanart community (at the time) was way too common and accepting w rps (for me), rps fanartists also got the most clout and followers so that was also an incentive for ppl to do rps if they wanted to make friends and connections w cool artist ppl or whatev. even if i dont wanna do it i encounter it too much, and it also gets in my head like am i supposed to just do it so i can be like these successful artists? i deleted my acc bc i hated the daily headache. i think places like twitter make it impossible to avoid these mechanisms, partly bc the sites own setup to keep u there and posting n make $ and partly bc of idols job being that they make u as invested as possible and make $. another thing is how "stanning" and "unstanning" both get kinda performative in these circumstances, bc they transform into social incentive (retweets), bc u can make friends thru showing ur loyalty..like how there r disclaimer tweets w huge engagement (showing how necessary it is) before a bts cb thats like "remember fanartists u dont have to immediately draw to show ur love dont burn urself out take care of urself♡" and i first thought thats ridiculous its even needed to be said but it *is* , i remember when i was younger being anxious to draw everything fresh to pull numbers and be present and ride the wave of things and all. and thats *another* thing, how many stans and fans are so young and...u dont even have to be young to be pulled into these mechanisms. maybe im v grim but i think the environment where stanning happens is just... difficult and may be unhealthy
does this make sense did i just repeat ur points im rambling i just feel strongly abt this bc i think growing up on fandom and these sites gave me brain damage im trying to undo
You're not insane. I understood the points you made. I decided to stay off the major social media platforms to avoid what you experienced.
'Hope you're doing okay and that you've found a way to deal with all of that pressure.
💜🌻🌼
@@tulongangenomesho2257 thank you🌻 yeah thats a good thing to do with these things in mind!
and yes, kind of, i left my acc for my own good and only check updates occasionally from private, ill try not to be swept back in 🤧
Bby gang never fail to educate
this was a little weird for me to watch at first because I've only watched like two "unstanning" videos and they were both really about how Blackpink isn't getting the musical work they deserve and how we really shouldn't be supporting YG. I guess I managed to find the actual good examples of a commonly harmful trend XD (unlike my experience with "unpopular opinion" videos where it's just an excuse to shit on people then say "it's just my opinion so if you don't like it that's your problem")
with the fandom thing..... just focus on finding people who vibe with u i will say that kpop fans who like multiple groups tend to be very chill, plus u never get bored because theres more things to talk about
your analysis made me realize tha i often said it was the fandom's fault for why i unstanned (the group was the one that got me into kpop and i would only listen to them and watch/read stuff about them), when ultimately, it was something fan had no real control over and i started to grow out of their music. but seeing my reaction today when i hear about that group is what makes me think the most. it's almost repulsive, even though neither the fandom or the group itself ever did something bad to me. i worry a bit when i start to think like an "anti" because where do these ideas come from? was i expecting something from the group/fandom that never happened and i blamed it on them? did unstanning make me "neutral" and more easily influenced by antis? what exactly is the cause of my disgust?
and to this day i still can't answer these questions. maybe it was because i started to see how fandoms had questionable behaviors ("stereotyping" members to 1 part of themselves, excessive/dangerous shipping, inside jokes becoming more cringe than before), or because i just...didn't vibe anymore. i don't know.
This vid: PERIODt.
I've always thought about how much I dislike this trend of being 'edgy' for unstanning a popular group (no shade to the people who made reasonable n good videos about this btw). I used to wonder why this trend was never addressed by any of the 'tea' spilling kpop channels. Glad someone finally spoke up, now I don't have to make a low-quality documentary of this using imovies lmao xD
Yeah, I used to be huge ass fan of Ed Sheeran's but at some point I felt like I was listening to his music and watching his content without really enjoying it. I still find some of his music nice and I'm super happy I had that fase in my life but I'm not into it anymore, it's ok, people change, it doesn't mean I'm going to make a video saying "I stopped being his fan" it just doesn't fit
Great video - I love the critical discussion!
For me, if the reason you 'unstan' an artist/idol is due to outgrowing their music or your music taste changing, or you are becoming less interested or engaged in their content over time rather than because of criticism or negative feelings for the group, I am not really interested in a video.
However, I do think 'unstanning' videos are an opportunity to critically discuss artists. It can be a chance to talk about the idols' contributions to the genre as a whole, and why they may (or may not!) have been worth our time, attention and money as consumers.
It can be a platform to discuss trends across groups that become more popular (and remain that way), as well as highlighting any concerns over management, music quality and if we, as consumers, are being taken advantage of by agencies.
I can’t fathom unstanning BTS, ever! I was a fan from a distance from FIRE 2016 but hesitated jumping in both feet because of so many negative comments about ARMY. Any negative BTS comments, I just dismissed immediately cuz I know great music when I hear it! After Hwarang I said fuck it cuz they are too amazing to ignore. I can deal with the crap discretely without engaging or making a situation worse. Best. Decision. Of. My. Life.
I never understood why some people unstan an artist or group because of a few toxic fans they may have seen. You are stanning the artist/group for their work and music, not the fans...
I stan BTS because of them and their music, and with the impact they had on me and kinda changed my life, I could never unstan because when you think about it, even when they would stop making music, the music and the impact will remain. The saying I´m in this bangtan shit forever, is there for a reason :) also, like you said, when you engage with toxic people you will only see toxic people. I started to be on twitter again because of bts but I am very careful who I follow and who follows me and I can tell you, I found so many lovely people who I can talk to. Twitter is wild, and yes sometimes you will see toxic stuff, but you can make your own terms and decide not to let toxic people in your space. Surround yourself with good people.
Exactlyyyy, the positive impact will stay, that is what I told some kpop fans that are trying to make stan like 100 groups, bc they say oh when BTS stop making music u will feel sad and I said I know there would be a time when they stop doing it but that never would change the beautiful impact they have on my life.
I think that most of these unstanning fans just mean they won’t engage with the community anymore. Or at least that’s my case. BTS is one of my ults and I admire their work so much, but I really don’t feel comfortable anymore in the fandom, so I just listen to their music and watch their MVs on my own (bc that’s why I love them in the first place), without engaging with other fans or platforms in social media.
Another great vid! Well said, I love the emphasis on positivity here, unstanning doesnt have to be a dramatic, destructive spectacle Liking or disliking music really doesnt have to be contentious or worthy of drama and excessive discussion, like who you like, no biggie. Given the current events in the world... people turn to what they stan (comics, movies, music, sport, whatever) because a lot of crazy scary stuff is happening and we feel pretty helpless, we really dont need our own fandoms and interests to feed into more negative narratives. I know some internet folks hate the term safe space, but ... is it really such a bad thing to promote positive, constructive fan culture rather than feed into negativity?
I somewhat agree with the fact that you might be able to stan artist just by yourself of your are stanning them from afar. As you mentioned the kpop sphere of stanning revolves a little more among a community. Even more so if you are active as a fan in Korea you are physically seeing the same group of people during promotions at every single event. In light of that I totally understand when people unstan a group (as in just enjoying from afar) because they make horrible experiences with these ppl they see day by day. For me for example after some happening withing the fandom I feel highly uncomfortable to go to events eventhough I want to see my idol. For me I superficially look like I unstanned them as I stopped communicating online and cut ties with the ppl, additionally not visiting events anymore. However I still love this group so much which gives me lots of head and heart aches if i am being honest. Its a very difficult topic the deeper you get into a fandom culture I feel.
this was so informative! i've definitely seen a TON of unstanning videos like the ones you talked about it and i couldn't make peace with the idea of unstanning or the reasons for doing so in the videos i watched and couldn't really voice why i thought it was problematic but you worded it perfectly! i am now happily subscribed for more video essays :)
Omg this. I couldn't get my finger on why those "why i unstanned" videos in my reccomendations bothered me so much and you said it so spot on. I agree with everything u said as usual
First of all i really really like your videos. I also really like the way that you speak, since english isn't my first language i feel like your videos help me to learn new words and ways to express myself in english.
Regarding to the video, i think one of the reasons why "why i unstanned x group" videos are being created so much in the kpop community is because of how the "kpop world" works. I remember seeing one of those videos and one of the reasons as to why the person stopped stanning a group was because they didn't felt motivated to keep up with their content/their content didn't caught their attention anymore, and i think a lot of people feel this way, they think that they need to watch every music show performance, vote for them in every platform available, stream their content 24/7 or else they're not a "real fan" and then, when they can't keep up with all that content, they feel guilty, they feel like they're not worthy of calling themselves a stan, thus they just "quit". It honestly makes me sad (and a little confused) because music is there to make us happy, to distract us from bad things or to help us see things differently, it should never feel like a chore, it shouldn't makes us feel stressed.
Dahyun did WHAT???
Invented pineapple on pizza 😱😱😱😱😱
She was my bias
😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔😢😔
took the words out of my mind. thank you for posting about this. I very much agree with you and think more people should understand this ideas.
this is what I've been saying all along! Well said as always- I like how you looked at the broader context of stanning and fandom
Thank you for your videos. I've been feeling frustrated and confused about a lot of things and it is very stressful, especially when you see a lot of negativity on social media and it seems like no one else feels the same way. I think this channel has created a space where people can have conversations that I wished would happen and I appreciate that.
People who say "I UnStAnD BeCaUsE Of ThE FaNdOm"
If you unstan because of a fandom, you were never A real one anyways.
If you stan artist for their music, passion and the messages in their songs, you would NEVER EVER let a fandom ruin it for you. We stan the artist, NOT the fandom.
I don’t think they solely talk about the fandom. There’s other things too. But the fandom does play a role. I’m an army and I’m sorry but most of the fandom is just rude, immature, and toxic. So I understand why that would play a factor. But yes you should Stan for the group not the fandom.
@@cxramelty242 well........we can't say most because we don't know most of the fandom. You know😬😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 but it's just for the ones who say i unstanned because of the fandom😅😅
@@cxramelty242 I want to agree with you except that part of most of the fandom. I agree a lot of armies may be seen as immature, until you realise that the fandom has many older people moms, dads, teachers etc... But I also see many nice armies out there who people don't seem to notice which is kinda sad but true
@@cxramelty242 But why do you have to be a part of the fan community to be a stan is something I don't understand. I stanned Delena in my teen years but never talked to their fans or cared about what they were doing. I did my own thing, had my own friends, my own circle. If discourse doesn't suit you or you find that your opinions aren't being accepted, I feel that it should be clear that that community isn't for you.
tbh if i see stuff i don't like i just block it to the point where my tl is completely clear
This is my new favorite channel, by far!
Thanks for another great video elliot 💜👍
THIS!! I often feel like an outsider of some fandoms because I don't have a fan account or I'm not on stan twitter (I DON'T EVEN HAVE TWITTER). I am honestly too old to dedicate 20 hours a day to a certain group and to spend every waking hour consuming their content and I don't want to feel bad about it. I understand that when you are younger you have different priorities and have more free time and that's perfectly fine but I don't want to be shamed for not doing the same thing. My connection to artists has nothing to do with how loud I am on the internet about my love for said artist. I still consume the content when I have time and I feel like it and I enjoy the music just as much as any other fan/stan and I wish this shaming for not being a loud enough stan would stop.
ye i only ever watched one "why i unstanned" video bc the title already gave me the feeling that it would be full of (unnecessary?) hate but it was pretty good and brought up some valid concerns... and yeah i left it on that
so yeah of course not all of these videos are bad but i myself didn't want to involve myself any further in these kind of videos and this kind of negativity...
I agree with this entire video💜
If you go through qoura, all the answers are the same when it comes to unstanning, just worded differently. "The fandom was toxic"
3:55 the slow panning of jin. i like it
This radiates the same energy as r/imnotliketheothergirls
You have actually helped me a lot .Thank you 💜
every point was so extremely valid! thank you for making video essays that are so extreme relevant and well articulated.
one thing i believe everyone should rmb is that the army base IS HUGE. the reason u might notice more toxic people in the army community more often is bc of the greater no. of persons per percentage. usually a certain percentage of every fandom is toxic. if they could better use their time making unstanning videos or spreading gossip, they could do the math sis! let’s say 10% is toxic, definitely u’ll see more toxic people in the army community, that can amount to 1 billion fans, as compared to other fandoms with 100,000 fans.
Thank God. I was waiting for someone to say this. Great video!
I unstanned blackpink because they weren’t releasing enough content to keep me interested. I like the girls and I in no way blame them for the amount of music they release since they have very little to no control over how much music they release but I just wasn’t happy with the amount of music the girls were releasing so kind of phased out of their fandom.
like basically all your videos, you did a really great job 🥰 i agree wholeheartedly with what you presented and how you explained the phenomenon and it’s existence. i have the same opinion. thank you for the great video 💜
Take it from a fan of Homestuck: there are always bad apples in the crowd. Say, 1 out of 100 is toxic. It is a rather small number, but in huge fandoms? The quantity grows so much it can be more voluminous than whole smaller fandoms. In those small fandoms there are less toxic purely by proportion. There are a ton of more chill quiet fans then there is of loud toxic ones. YOU are the one responsible for your social circle and experiences you get from engagement with fandom (which should be separate from experience you get from engagement with the artist’s content, which is a given), just manage your feed and follows better, block some people, mute some words. You are there for the artist, not for the fans
this essay is godlike
thank u for this amazing video! it made my day
So I personally don’t like majority of the experiences I’ve had being an army with the fandom itself but I’m not gonna unstan BTS because of toxic fans. That’s when you just distance yourself from the community and silently support the group or something. If you unstan because you simply don’t like the music anymore then you don’t need to announce you’re departure. Then only time I see a good reason to publicly unstan is if the group has exhibited problematic behavior (like being racist, sexist, homophobic transphobic etc.) and didn’t apologize for it or make any effort to change.
The experience of being part of a fandom depends on the people you surround yourself with. It's like in life, the world it's full of toxic people, you may be lucky and not found many of them, or not, but you have to surround youself with the good ones to have a nice
experience and a sense of belonging. I know some people like to ruin a experience because they have problems with themselfes and are very toxic, it can happen in a fandom, in your amazing work place, that you love but then someone like this comes along and ruins the good vibes, but if you love what you do, you will not stop (this it's a more complex subject, it's worse, in social media you can just follow different people and block, in real life it's more difficult). Bigger fandoms have more changes of having this people,
because there is more diversity, and also everyone can say they are a fan or a stan that doenst mean it's true, depends on the meaning they have gave to the word, it's confusing sometimes like you said in the video. Some say they stan but just because it's trendy or think they are cute, or want to belong to
something like a fandom, and sometimes they don't even care about the art that the artists puts out. Defining this terms it's what complicates everything because people use it with diferrent levels of meaning, I used stan as being a fan, but there's so many levels of being a fan, but for me it's more like a hardcore fan who feels a special connection with the artist and his art.
I realy like the way you explain the different levels of liking an artist. I like a lot of artists, some I listen to more often and try to be aware of knew releases and stuff, some of their music means a lot to me, or have marked some
phases of my live, but that's it, I don't feel a need to know more, I don't love their whole discography and feel the need to se every mv and performance, but
totally would go to a concert. I love concerts and I even discovered amazing artist when I went to see others artist at festivals and saw others perform and
absolutely loved.
But felling a deep connection with someone's art and personality it's rare for me. I was a Linkin Park fan since I was 15, I'm 27 now. I love their whole discography, I listen to their solo stuff, that they did with other artists/bands, I loved seeing their behind the scenes and interviews, not because their were cute or anything like that but because I felt a connection with the way they talk and see the world and express themselves. I went to 3 concerts of them in my country even though I saw some amazing artists in concerts, theirs were amazing and special to me.
And now I am a Army, I'm BTS fan only, that doens't mean I don't like others artist a lot but not at this level, and I even feel more connected to their art and them, that I did with Linkin park (that I still love, but it still hurts a lot listining to their music because of what happened). For a few years I didn't stan any artist and I don't have to, it didn't bother me, because I only became a fan when I feel a special connection, it's not something that I am searching for, but i still loved music and I listened to a lot of artists back then.
Sometimes I feel like there are people who need to always stan someone and they are always searching for someone to stan, like it's some trend, or because they are bored, or need that to feel important. It's okay to love some artists but not at this level, to be a casual listener, without going around saying you stan someone just because you think they are cute and like some of their music. It's okay to not really be a part of a fandom, it's okay to not be a fan of a artist, it's okay to not be a stan to any artist.
I think that´s why unstanning happens a lot, I see that especially between the kpop fandoms, because the definition of the fan or stan term it's even more confusing now, people just use those words or enter a fandom just because they want to stan or like some songs.
It's fine to like an artist and then grow apart from their music, it's okay to love other artists more, we change, they change it can happen for some people, but nowadays it's seems like it happens much more, lasts less and it's a way to attack other fandoms, and having attention. If you don't feel a connection with the artist anymore okay just go live your life and let other people have fun with what they love, like you said in the video
unless there is a specific reason like your example in the video to talk about it is not necessary and just spreads hate.
Sorry for writing so much and thank you for another great video.
i never watch these videos for all the reasons you mentioned, but also bc my rsd makes it really difficult to see negativity about things i like without taking it personally (something im always working on). knowing the comments are probably riddled w hate makes it impossible for me to *want* to watch, which means any actual constructively critical videos will always get passed up by me, unfortunately :•/
I would NEVER unstan BTS because of their fandom (or even just because of 1-2 songs). It would really take a lot for me to unstan them honestly...
If by any chance ARMYs become so toxic I can't bear to be around ANY of them (I don't know if that's possible), I'm just going to ignore comments under videos, tweets from fans and other posts from fans and continue supporting BTS. I'm here for the artist not the fandom.
the bc 1 or 2 songs I feel u hahahha
great video again elliot! thank you
this isn't too related to the video, but stan culture in kpop has gone too far. I'm not just talking about stans going too far. It seems to have almost become an expectation that you HAVE to be a dedicated stan to be a fan. I've seen people SHAME other fans for not streaming and voting obsessively because "it's not that hard." it may not be that hard, but I just _don't care how many views or music show wins they have._ those people think that stanning is the only way to be a fan and will basically call you a selfish lazy PoS for not downloading a foreign app, paying for a membership, and watching ads all day to collect voting points. rinse and repeat for every different music show and every new appearance on each of those shows or else "you're making our boys sad and it's YOUR fault if they don't get a win!!" (even if the entire reason they don't win is that they hardly have any KOREAN fans so they can't get higher scores in the category that can only be affected by KOREANS and their previous wins despite that were basically miracles that then led some people to accuse them of cheating)
Yeah I literally cannot go on twitter if I want to stay mentally well so I’m thankful you brought up how you can limit your social intake
i like your videos a lot. thanks for your effort!!! i appreciate it.
To me someone I stan is an artist that I follow what they do. Every twitter post, weverse post, music release etc. and I've listened to pretty much their whole discography (bar a few solo releases, songs not on apple music from the early days and Japanese tracks that I haven't got round to listening to yet). But by this definition i only class myself as stanning BTS because theyre the only artist I do this for, and the only artist in whos whole discography i have listened to and listen to a lot. Theyre also basically the only kpop group I've looked up lyric translations for and the connection I feel to their discography and lyrics is unmatched by any other artist for me.
Tysm for this video because I never understood why some people call themselves "stans" when they are clearly just casual fans.
I stan BTS but I listen to plenty other artists & groups casually.
When I first got into kpop, I thought you had to "stan" a lot of groups. Didn't take long for me to realize how stressful it was to keep up with 10 groups lol. So eventually I chose to only stan BTS. But did I write a 15 page thesis on why I unstanned others? Nope because what's the point?
Also your toxic stans part is exactly what I thought. You can't generalize a huge fandom, especially when each person's experience in a fandom is different. Those "unstanning" videos/threads can make people who feel good in a fandom second guess themselves. Like all those "armys are toxic" threads used to make me feel terrible. Now idgaf but newer fans could still feel like they joined a "toxic fandom".
i have the same definition as you in the word stan. i can never say i stan someone that i have not spent time watching almost all their content. and i see those people stanning more than 5 artists at the same time and always wonder how they can actually manage to follow these artists when i can't even keep up w my two groups that i stan.
I hope that more people will see your video ! You did a good job 👏👏👏👏
yes another frank ocean and bts stan ‼️ (we need another album soon frfr)
When those videos started to show up on my recommended I was like "but WHO are you?" Like.... Those youtubers don't have a fansite, they're not that famous and feel so entitled to do a video about why they stopped being a fan of someone like wtf 💀If I "unstan" someone I don't need to do a thread or a video about it like who cares. And about toxic fandoms, every fandom will have rotten people 🗣️ "You don't have to be an active member of an online fandom to stan an artist" PREACH 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I appreciate your content :)
1:38 AYEEEE RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE GREAT JOB EDITOR DANAE O. I APPROVE AAAAAA
This Video is Gold ! Thank you !
i actually really enjoy the labels “stan”, “semiult”, and “ult” groups in kpop as a multi because that allows me to distinguish between groups that i just stan (i like their music, i know all the members), i semiult (ive listened to their whole discography, i know a lot about them, i enjoy the art they make and i support them for it), and the groups i ult, and hyperfixate on (as a neurodivergent person), and know basically everything about. often times “semiult” to me means i am choosing to follow this creator because i love their art, while with ult groups it’s almost compulsive. my ult for two years was izone, but i don’t like the edm genre they fall in, and only listened to their music while watching stages. i’m not sure if i can explain, but i wouldn’t have gotten into them if not for whatever about them made my brain so reliant on them to feel safe. their group chemistry and choreography fulfilled something and i would talk about them and think about them for hours, and if i wasn’t able to i’d get stressed and panicky. it felt like a show i loved, even if i thought the soundtrack was mediocre. and yet i still know all the words to all their songs.
i’m not exactly sure where i was going with this i just needed to talk lol
Great vid! I have this way of thinking/being (idk English is noty 1st language) that I don't feel the need to publicly inform people of my likes and dislikes and I also don't understand why the people need to whether it be a about staning or unstaning a group or a different matter. What I mean is why do I have to go out of my way to let people know why I like something. I'm not saying that the people who make this videos are bad or something, they can do whatever they want but to me just seems pointless.
Idk if I expressed myself correctly but I tried. 😊
this is a very good video! I often feel uncomfortable with how fast kpop fans declare they’re a stan of a group and how equally fast they are to unstan them. it’s like, you know you can just say you like groups casually right?? not everything has to be ride or die.
This video deserves millions of views I love you ok bye
Thank you so much for this video
While I agree with a lot of your points (and I really like your videos in general), I have to disagree on some parts; I absolutely think it's valid for someone to unstan (a kpop artist particularly) because of the fandom. I personally wouldn't do it myself, but having been into BTS and kpop for a few years now, I think it's totally valid.
Like you said, really stanning someone requires taking the time to consume a lot of content, often not just the music but also news articles, behind the scenes content, fan content etc. It is really likely that you are going to HAVE to interact with fans to do that (eg: comments under TH-cam videos, fan created content, making friends within the fandom etc). As an example, I'm going to use BTS and their fandom. Obviously there are so so so many fun, chill and interesting fans, but the sheer amount of toxicity perpetuated by other ARMYs can be really unsettling (and this goes for many other kpop and non-pop acts too). This is especially made worse as ARMY is a HUGE fandom. As a kpop fandom, it is already prone to overprotective fans (given the way companies actively encourage forming parasocial fan-artist relationships) and additionally, it is easy to be emotionally invested with the boys (given that their music and content comes across as very personal and sincere). Essentially, the aspects of this fandom that become "toxic" are a) very large in numbers and b) very emotionally attached to the artists.
I have seen scary mob-mentality behaviour on twitter (not just with ARMYs but including ARMYs) and frankly, I understand why being part of this fandom can be a scary experience (especially for new fans or younger fans). Again, the majority of ARMYs are very sweet but the sheer amount of toxicity can be mind blowing. I find that no one can ever give their opinions on any social media platform without being called an "anti" (and that's why platforms like reddit seem so anti-BTS, as they are one of the few places people can criticise the group). Essentially, a protective minority polices everything one does as a fan. For example, ARMYs are quick to immediately suspend and report accounts who give any opposite opinion of the group, mass block accounts, prevent fans from stanning other groups etc. There is also a huge amount of racism, anti-blackness and horrible sexism/mysogyny etc but the moment anything is said: mass reported and suspended. I have seen people receive death threats, severe bullying, doxxing and more and frankly, it's very detrimental to one's mental health. For example, (trigger warning) apparently there was a Kaachi fan named Malena who got bullied so severely online that she committed suicide.
This is NOT ALL ARMYs and is prevalent in other fandoms too (thinking about Swifties doxxing Pitchfork's journalist recently) but just because you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I personally do not engage on many social media platforms with stans, but I think that it's really unfortunate that stan culture as a general prevents people from enjoying the content and criticising it. Many journalists recently have been talking about how difficult it is to even do there job and write about groups like BTS (but also Taylor Swift etc) because of the rampant cancel culture and hate received (note: you absolutely SHOULD criticise people who do a bad job, but doxxing, bullying, hating is never right).The average stan in a lot of other fandoms too feel like they aren't able to freely express their opinions. Although I personally find the fulfilment I get out of being an ARMY (in this example) much greater than the negatives, this is not the case for everyone. Stan culture is rampant with major bullying and toxicity and frankly that can really affect someone's mental health (as I have seen many times online), thus tainting their image of the group.
Even if you love something very much, everyone has a limit and for people who have had traumatic experiences online, I'm not going to judge for unstanning because of the fandom. Is it all fans? Obviously not. But it's what the minority do and the experience you have with them that makes a difference. And honestly, you don't need a logical reason to unstan. Often, when people are facing this much toxicity every day, they aren't going to think "but it's not everyone" because those experiences may taint the way you see the fandom, and cause you to lose interest. You don't stan something purely logically (I like xyz) but mainly because of a connection (I feel emotionally invested and care about xyz) and fans can cause you to lose that emotional connection or permanently damage it.
I hope you respond because I'd love to know your thoughts!
Some links about this: junkee.com/stan-culture-anonymous/263987 (journalists having to anonymously criticise big fandoms)
medium.com/@hanxine/why-the-normalization-of-stan-culture-is-unhealthy-b37fb8024346 (similar mass reporting experience from Ariana stans)
Woah, I was gonna type something similar but you expressed exactly what I felt about the things mentioned in this video! I honestly stopped to call myself a stan /fan of anything in general because of some of the friends I made solely because we were stans/fans of the same things but the pure toxicity and ignorance that I saw in them made me feel detached from the media we bonded over. Not only did I not like being associated with a fandom with so many different kinds of people that I don't wish to feel responsible for but also made me not enjoy the artist anymore, although, this might sound illogical or stupid to someone who hasn't gone through it, people need to realise it won't always sound logical when people explain random emotions they feel. This made me realise that the issue lied in the fact that I tried to give a name to the enjoyment I felt from consuming certain media, whether it'd be a fan or a stan, I don't want there to be a diagram laid out in my mind that says I'm a casual fan if I just listen to some of their music, I'm a fan if I listen to their music a lot, I'm a stan if I consume several things related to the artist other than their music. Here, the level of responsibility I feel towards the fandom and the artist or stuff they release increases with the level of indulgence with their stuff. And when any of them do bad stuff, I feel responsible and it ruins what I enjoy. Thus, I decided to stop feeling an entitlement toward things I shouldn't feel an entitlement by stop naming my enjoyment, defining it and not feeling shocked or bad when just because someone who was a stan of something I was a stan of ended up being subjectively bad, stopped differentiating them from others just cuz they were also a stan, feeling less unbiased. I just feel more at peace not going around with a name tag of, "I am a casual fan/fan/stan" and I would appreciate it if people don't automatically assume I am one if I say I enjoy something, although it's completely understandable if they do it and I can't put them in a negative light just for doing that.
And as for this trend of, "Why I unstanned xyz", it's sorta like a fandom, all of them are neither bad nor good, not all of them will be positive videos that don't intend to spread hate but there will certainly be ones where people just wanted to express their opinion not intending any hate and they are completely allowed to do that just like this video at the base is expressing an opinion, it's fair if they say they didn't want to be put under the same category as one fandom so they left it but still are part of fandoms with a toxic part in it, that's their choice and opinion and people attacking them for it are all the more proving them right.
Anyway, that's all I have to say, have a nice day !
I almost TLDR-ed it but I didn’t because I disagree. I personally believe that toxicity comes when you look for it. For the short amount of time that I had twitter I rarely encountered toxic fans. Now am I saying that I couldn’t even find a single toxic comment? No. But when you look at a tweet or a comment most of the time you can kind of see where the person is heading. Many people can’t resist this because as humans this ‘us vs them’ mentality is engrained onto us and by no means am I saying that I’m immune to this. Sometimes I fall into a trap and do have arguments with these people who make it their purpose to spread negativity but this narrative that it is inescapable is utter and complete bs.
If you really stanned BTS for their message and because it helped you battle your inner demons and quite possibly save your life then a few toxic tweets should be easy to avoid. Social media algorithms too give you what you want. If you click on an unpopular opinion/ unstan video you get more of it. If you click on meme/ positive videos you get that.
After all their entire message is to spread positivity in the words of KNJ “If you don’t have anything nice to say then Shut up,” And it’s completely alright if you didn’t have that life changing experience while liking their artist. Everyone has their own experiences but if you’re unstanning because of some toxic fans that means that you never stanned them in the first place. You’re just leaving a toxic part of a fandom.
The best example I can give is myself, I can confidently say that I have never once, for a second interacted/encountered with a toxic army, I agree that it’s mostly luck because I hadn’t been so lucky with Exo-ls and I found the major interactions I’ve had with them were trying to put down Armys, bts and other fandoms. Just like people had to separate the artist from the art these days we have to separate the fans from the artist. I still like exo and I follow them but I just don’t interact and choose to ignore the fandom for the most part. You don’t really need to interact with the fans as much as you’re thinking tbh. I still watch the videos, look and like fanart and other things without necessarily exposing myself to the negativity that sme fans may put out which turns out detrimental to everyone involved. I hope I made sense