Performing this maneuver in this specific car is a great demonstration of how open differentials work. It’s crazy to see all of the power in the drivetrain escape through the inside rear tire under full throttle coming out of the slide, until the ECU kills the wheelspin. A good mechanical diff (or a welded one) would help the rear end slide more predictably under power and apply power more equally to both rear wheels.
@@thenerdycanadian7172 same thing. The E-lsd effect is using brakes on the open diff to add power to the left or right side. That’s the torque vectoring. The manual transmission doesn’t get front to back torque bias like the automatic does. Is that what you meant?
i like these. its kinda like being able to see yourself and what you'll struggle with. watching wayat do everything makes it hard to gauge because he's just so good.
Well sliding on grippy surface is always basically slow destruction of every mechanical part even on RWD car. They have said that the viscous center diff unit is regular replaceable wear item even on their rally school cars, and those things are driven on gravel and snow which is MUCH easier for car than tarmac... 😅
I've done some rally training on gravel and your technique in this video (on asphalt) definitely isn't what I was taught. What I've learned is to come into the turn with some braking, turn the wheel into the turn, feel the weight transfer, THEN give it some handbrake before getting on the gas again and powering out. The steering input to initiate the turn is much greater. The handbrake is not used for as long. It was emphasized that the weight transfer is needed. The technique produced a similar line, and I was able to execute the turn with some consistency after about 5 reps. The technique translates nicely to learning pendulum turns. Not trying to start a flame war between rally schools, but I am curious what y'all think about the steering input and handbrake timing.
subaru dealer tech here, this is a quick way to ruin a viscus coupling center diff, i did it myself in my own car and have replaced a few on customer vehicles
It's cool, but people shouldn't try this at home unless they want to replace the center viscous coupler. If the car is moving, the handbrake should never be pulled. Some people think clutching in will save their center diff, but it won't because it's strictly the speed disparity between front and rear axles that affects the shearing action on the viscous fluid. Even a brief extreme disparity in speed can cause enough shearing to overheat the fluid, and then the fluid becomes no longer viscous and a new center diff is needed.
I'm just going to echo a question I'm seeing a lot here in this series and hope the team will answer. Isn't using the handbrake in an AWD Subaru on non-loose surface bad for the mechanical health of the car?
It would be easier with a modern centre diff that disconnects the front from the rear, with a Viscous centre, especially a tight one it will force the front to lock up and understeer straight off.
ALSO while I'm here, how does the center diff like handbrake turning? I feel like the common intuition is you need to clutch in to handbrake turn on older 5MTs, and thats usually what I do if I ever use the thing during rallies (I almost never do), but unsure if the latest WRXs have any other provisions to make this less stressful on the transmission.
I'm curious about this too. I drove a bugeye with a manual transmission for many years, but always assumed that without a rear driveshaft disconnect it was best to leave the handbrake alone.
At least in the evo there is a clutch pack diff (ACD) for the center diff that i think should disengage with the handbrake on. Not sure with the normal wrx though as i assume the STI the the DCCD would be similar. Just guessing it just slips the clutches in the center diff.
Clutch-in does nothing to save it, on these or the old ones (it's the same type of viscous coupler as the old ones). Speed disparity between front and rear axles is all that matters in ruining it, and the clutch has no effect on this (see my comment above). This is true of all WRXs. I think some years of older STIs opened the center diff if you pulled the handbrake, but others may not (I could never find confirmation), but the STI center diff is completely different either way.
What am I missing here on a VB platform seems like pulling the handbrake does nothing to lock up the rear tires even a slight bit. Had a 2004 wrx no problems doing this technically locked the rear wheels, 2010 STI I had also no issues doing this, on my 24 no freaking way can’t lock up rear wheels tried track mode on off nothing helps I’m thinking there is some computer none sense not allowing it. Or did you guys disconnect anything else what fuses were pulled? Or is this VB have an STI 6speed swap?
(open front + open rear diffs) x viscous center coupling = 1-wheel drive exits. Subaru, masterclass in marketing success without actually advancing technologically.
I always equated Ken to an actor in how he took multiple takes of a given corner. You think all the Hollywood you watch is done first try? Its about getting it right no matter what, not just doing it good enough the first time.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
i DOOOO love some VB WRX material. Especially on how to use it for rally.
Performing this maneuver in this specific car is a great demonstration of how open differentials work. It’s crazy to see all of the power in the drivetrain escape through the inside rear tire under full throttle coming out of the slide, until the ECU kills the wheelspin. A good mechanical diff (or a welded one) would help the rear end slide more predictably under power and apply power more equally to both rear wheels.
You can use the "Track mode" to emulate a lsd effect in the VB. I use for autocross every run.
@@ianfairbanks1318 does it have an E-LSD or torque vectoring? i was pretty sure its the same diff's from the VA WRX
@@thenerdycanadian7172 same thing. The E-lsd effect is using brakes on the open diff to add power to the left or right side. That’s the torque vectoring. The manual transmission doesn’t get front to back torque bias like the automatic does. Is that what you meant?
“rental car technique” hahaha
i like these. its kinda like being able to see yourself and what you'll struggle with. watching wayat do everything makes it hard to gauge because he's just so good.
When you're done with the gymkhana stuff you guys should do a Will It Rally with a Porsche 911
We are hoping some day @fcpeuro will bring back their Porsche Cayenne
I have a 991.2 safari you could use (but I’m a long way away:(
Fun series, thank you.
How is the center diff handling this? I guess this being non-STI model it doesn't disconnect the rear drive when you pull the handbrake?
Well sliding on grippy surface is always basically slow destruction of every mechanical part even on RWD car. They have said that the viscous center diff unit is regular replaceable wear item even on their rally school cars, and those things are driven on gravel and snow which is MUCH easier for car than tarmac... 😅
Hand brake in snow is a must :D such joy !!!
I've done some rally training on gravel and your technique in this video (on asphalt) definitely isn't what I was taught.
What I've learned is to come into the turn with some braking, turn the wheel into the turn, feel the weight transfer, THEN give it some handbrake before getting on the gas again and powering out. The steering input to initiate the turn is much greater. The handbrake is not used for as long. It was emphasized that the weight transfer is needed. The technique produced a similar line, and I was able to execute the turn with some consistency after about 5 reps.
The technique translates nicely to learning pendulum turns.
Not trying to start a flame war between rally schools, but I am curious what y'all think about the steering input and handbrake timing.
subaru dealer tech here, this is a quick way to ruin a viscus coupling center diff, i did it myself in my own car and have replaced a few on customer vehicles
I was really hoping you would test more cars on your course... I love rally racing... please test more cars and have the list grow....
That's interesting to know about applying the parking brake first. I would have expected to steer first like we did in snow when younger.
Wyatt is the man
This dude's Clutch is in warranty, and it will be needed. lol
Id like to see a before and after video of this car with an LSD in the back doing some of these manuvers
It's cool, but people shouldn't try this at home unless they want to replace the center viscous coupler. If the car is moving, the handbrake should never be pulled. Some people think clutching in will save their center diff, but it won't because it's strictly the speed disparity between front and rear axles that affects the shearing action on the viscous fluid. Even a brief extreme disparity in speed can cause enough shearing to overheat the fluid, and then the fluid becomes no longer viscous and a new center diff is needed.
You guys are fantastic! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I'm just going to echo a question I'm seeing a lot here in this series and hope the team will answer. Isn't using the handbrake in an AWD Subaru on non-loose surface bad for the mechanical health of the car?
It would be easier with a modern centre diff that disconnects the front from the rear, with a Viscous centre, especially a tight one it will force the front to lock up and understeer straight off.
If it has front and rear LSDs, especially the clutch type ones, it would be able to power out of turns so beautifully
Very cheap kit to modify the 22wrx handbrake to be able to toggle the handbrake button. Can either disable button or have it stock lock
I’m always a little worried that Chris is standing too close but it never seems to be an issue
ALSO while I'm here, how does the center diff like handbrake turning? I feel like the common intuition is you need to clutch in to handbrake turn on older 5MTs, and thats usually what I do if I ever use the thing during rallies (I almost never do), but unsure if the latest WRXs have any other provisions to make this less stressful on the transmission.
I'm curious about this too. I drove a bugeye with a manual transmission for many years, but always assumed that without a rear driveshaft disconnect it was best to leave the handbrake alone.
At least in the evo there is a clutch pack diff (ACD) for the center diff that i think should disengage with the handbrake on. Not sure with the normal wrx though as i assume the STI the the DCCD would be similar. Just guessing it just slips the clutches in the center diff.
It doesn’t like it. This is something to do on someone else’s VB, not your own lol
Clutch-in does nothing to save it, on these or the old ones (it's the same type of viscous coupler as the old ones). Speed disparity between front and rear axles is all that matters in ruining it, and the clutch has no effect on this (see my comment above). This is true of all WRXs. I think some years of older STIs opened the center diff if you pulled the handbrake, but others may not (I could never find confirmation), but the STI center diff is completely different either way.
What am I missing here on a VB platform seems like pulling the handbrake does nothing to lock up the rear tires even a slight bit. Had a 2004 wrx no problems doing this technically locked the rear wheels, 2010 STI I had also no issues doing this, on my 24 no freaking way can’t lock up rear wheels tried track mode on off nothing helps I’m thinking there is some computer none sense not allowing it. Or did you guys disconnect anything else what fuses were pulled? Or is this VB have an STI 6speed swap?
How do I disconnect the abs on a normal car? I can’t lock the tyres up
(open front + open rear diffs) x viscous center coupling = 1-wheel drive exits. Subaru, masterclass in marketing success without actually advancing technologically.
Can I try this in 1st gear with out changing to second? Just go slower coz I’m new to getting the car lose grip.😢
In the movie, Baby Driver, can any AWD car reverse at full speed and make a 180-degree turn with obstacles on either side?
I heard that car was converted to RWD.
Are you guys still on the first set of tires?
Yes we are!
Would doing this on wet pavement be easier or harder?
I always equated Ken to an actor in how he took multiple takes of a given corner. You think all the Hollywood you watch is done first try? Its about getting it right no matter what, not just doing it good enough the first time.
2nd?!
How I wish Subaru retained a handbrake for my '10 Outback.
Wont this destory the center diff
@@jeff666p eventually
My handbrake is an electric button 😢😢
5th?!
Where's the drift button on the handbrake
We are currently installing one for a later episode.
I wanna see this type of comment on a ff car
first?!
Car sounds like it's dying as you get on the gas from the turn
You sure it isn't the whine of the drone flying above it?
@@matthewwain9958 that’s a great observation. It certainly sounds like it.
@@untitled4841 if my VB WRX sounded like that I'd be crying lol
@@matthewwain9958 great to hear! Team O’Neil does beat on it hard, but it seems to be taking it well 💪
How do you think Pat Gruszka did? 😂
th-cam.com/video/QttysOXWFJU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=i54swdaL4_faoULv