VASAviation - really love all your videos, and rarely see any corrections. This time I do have one very small correction in your transcript. You indicate tower controller responding incorrectly SWA but my ear did hear DAL apparently so did DAL as he never questioned this clearance. Listened to it 3 times and heard DAL every time. And I like to fact you are using real radar data, thanks.
Tower had some adrenaline rocketing through his voice, but still pulled it all together perfectly - despite the massive and obvious stress he was facing in a very fearful situation. Approach was a robotic champion of efficiency. Both reacted differently, both handled it flawlessly. I'll have solid peace of mind flying in to San Diego in the future!
Approach did great... Tower seemed a little frazzled when BAW44N didn't respond right away and N469CD was not turning north as directed, putting them on track to a mid air. He recovered pretty good, though.
Absolutely, did an excellent job. Just pointing out you can hear the stress in their voice. This is why I'm extra nice to controllers when I communicate with them.
xseig3x yes, good catch. When the runway gets blocked, the pressure goes up. You think of the aircraft you have in hand, then the vectoring that you must start, then keeping them within your airspace, then you think of the aircraft coming your way that are being stepped down in altitude by center, then you think about divert airports that can handle diverts, then the fuel of these aircraft that are being given the scenic tour until the runway is open, and last but not least, the weather. To reach this point of professionalism takes lots of training, and the ability to focus and make decisions, knowing that each decision must be correct. Great job done by this approach controller.
I saw and heard this in real time from my favorite SAN watching spot in San Diego and was very pleasantly surprised to see this nice production here on TH-cam. People who were listening on the scanners were actually coming out of their houses on a street just east of the airport to see this unfold . They were aghast that the British 747 failed to answer at least three calls from the tower while on final. I stood there with a couple of other locals speculating on where the Speedbird would end up after he got the go around command. LAX of course made the most sense because he was probably bingo fuel.
Just another day at the office for the SOCAL controller, who was excellent. For the tower controller, high early evening volume, plus the disabled aircraft on the runway, PLUS the somewhat nonresponsive inbound 747 has got to be about as stressful as it gets - he was great too.
@@rivvur Question: How could sudden pressure change, especially when said formerly-pressurized object is situated below thousands of pounds of external force, NOT be loud? I mean, aside from aircraft and airfields just generally being loud already, I think an exploding tire on a passenger jet would be pretty loud by default.
Years ago I was on about a four mile final for runway 27 at Monterey airport in California. CAVU day. Monterey approach had vectored a United 737-200 behind me and I was in a Seminole keeping my speed up as much as I could. I offered to break off and let him become # 1 but approach kept me #1 and made the 737 three-sixty. Lol I feel bad to this day for all the excess JET A they had to burn for a Piperdriver. The PNF actually thanked me for the offer. I was paying $12/every 6 minutes Far cheaper than United's fuel ticket!
Robyn Broyles so true. Wish I could have met the pilots on the tarmac. Those were the days when you could almost walk on the ramp freely. We used to fly into Sfo and hang out all day on the GA ramp. Ocassionally I'd ask to hold for a few minutes right off the active and watch a 747 rotate right in front of us. You could feel the ground shake!
One little suggestion: Can you highlight the aircraft with glow effects when the controller is talking to the subject aircraft or the aircraft is talking? It is quite hard for us to find that aircraft on the radar.
Thank you, VASA, for continuing to bring us these nicely edited videos for us to enjoy and learn. We, the loyal majority of the 100K+ subscribers of this channel, always look forward to get the next notification of your newest video and would like to continue to help you improve the channel, even if we can just do it with a just a suggestion. To help Akira with answering your question, here I am adding my 2 cents: I also believe that it could make it easier to quickly find the aircraft on the screen, especially when there is a lot of traffic involved as in this video. Even on a large screen it is not easy to quickly identify the aircraft by trying to read all the labels shown. Thank you again and keep up the good work, we do appreciate! ~~~ I really admire the work of the air traffic controllers because it would drive me crazy if I had to stare at a radarscope and safely coordinate where the planes have to go in a situation like this.
VASAviation - Love your work, but I agree with the others. Don't make anything fancy, a small microphone icon or color change where the talking aircraft would be great! Or more colors as you sometimes have used, but might be difficult when there are this many aircraft around. Anyways, love your content, you are truly adding a lot of effort and love into these videos!
Don't know about the others, but some of us have 'older eyes'... Which makes it a bit harder at times to locate the plane, especially when there are a lot of them. And, I am sometimes on a smaller screen. But, I still love and appreciate your work. And, I'm astounded at how ATC's handle things!
Wyatt Riemenschneider Check out the radar. ATC had an SR22 and a B744 very close to colliding and a B744 that wasn't responding and was getting lower. I'd get nervous too.
Sean Booher The concern here was not the SR22 but the BA continues to land with a disabled aircraft on the rwy would had been catastrophic. The SR 22 is on downwind the only reason they want him out of the bravo so that they can utilize the entire area for vectoring other aircraft that will be going missed.
Told my wife about this, said it explained pretty well why british went up to LAX for no other apparent reason that day. Also, I live directly under the North and West approaches about 3-4 miles short of the right hand turn said flights take to line up for runway 27, so its really cool to see everything mapped out via radar. One of my favorite fishing spots is directly under the takeoff for runway 27. Which makes for an epic sight when runway 9 is in use. Single runway airport is really fun to listen idly to during the day too lol
CBX is not for departures only. That would defeat the point. It would, however, likely be overwhelmed by a full 747. The main reasons have to do with a lack of facilities at TIJ, while they have 3 flights a day to LAX, plus all sorts of customs issues that could spring up when getting the aircraft back to SAN for the departure later. This isn't like they were on emergency bingo fuel - they were diverting to their alternate.
Any chance you could get footage from the near collision at Amsterdam Schiphol on march 28th or 29th? Apparently a go around and a departing aircraft had a near collision...
KOAK and KSAN, 2 of the last major metro airports with a single runway left in the system. Makes for a much more stressed situation for the tower when something goes wrong, so I can see why SAN TWR sounded a little out of sorts while trying to reroute a 744 that took a while to answer. Actually OAK has north field but the longest of it's 3 runways is almost half the length of main runway.
They couldn't have landed anyway since they didn't have a clearance. Delaying a call to Tower doesn't mean anything. Finally ended up landing at LAX and repositioning back to SAN minutes later.
I actually went spotting that say and filmed the FedEx MD-11 and British Airways going around! *Video:* th-cam.com/video/HI3KG0Fqgcw/w-d-xo.html I didn't hear the tire blow up even tho I ended the video right away!
Admittedly the first, Lindbergh Tower controller was dealing with the situation as best he could, but to me he sounds stressed and rattled. Not that either of these things are necessarily unexpected! The arrivals controller, on the other hand, sounds cool as a cucumber...
That is awesome! Of course there are other jobs with high responsibility but I do not know any other job with responsibility for so many people at once with so many decisions at that speed... Btw- Great idea to show both tower and approach. Thanks a lot!
thanks for all the time to compile; i would point out the initial controller telling a cirrus to keep it tight and kicking them out of sequence for a commercial behind. doesn't this sound familiar? a cirrus crash after multiple go arounds for commercial traffic and a request to keep it tight? telling a person to keep it tight would tend to have the effect of that person pushing the limits. NOT a good phrase. and any a/c in sequence should be able to keep the slot, if they are in danger of being run over then the following A/C should go around. every one should be equal, barring emergencies.
That was the South Bay sector of SoCal Tracon, world class controllers qualified on that scope. Some of the best controllers in the world no question, SoCal airspace is in good hands.
I am really surprised that the people in San Diego County have not pushed to make NKX a Joint/Us facility and put a civilian terminal there, extend 6R/24L by 4000 feet so it would have two runways long enough to handle anything. There is a heck of lot more open spaces there than at SAN, and it has two parallel runways. Get a disabled aircraft on one, just secure that scene and (if they are far enough apart) commence landing on the second. Now that the Navy has moved everything to Fallon or Lemoore, why not?
Great video. Tower seemed to get stressed very fast. I don’t think clearing 9CD was a good choice since fedex had such a high overtake speed. The approach controller was amazing. The speed at which he was working and only getting the wrong call sign once shows that the training needed to do this job pays off. It’s times like this that controllers really shine to keep us all safe.
That tower controller is actually very good, having talked to him before and had him work me in traffic (can't miss that New York accent in San Diego). With an airport like SAN, a true single runway with a ton of traffic, that will be a stressful situation, especially with an impatient and unfamiliar Cirrus in the pattern and a 747 bearing down on final and not talking to you immediately after you have an aircraft disabled on the runway.
could you possible find the (emirates?) flight that did an emergency landing into reykjavik, iceland a couple weeks ago? i followed it live in fr24 with my friends in swedish class. i got the emergency notification on my device while they had just reached iceland’s airspace. i’d love to hear the atc on this!
He was not missing any calls, either they switched frequency very late or Approach handed them off very late. When he said he was on a 3 mile final it indicated he had just come on the Tower frequency and contacted them.
Long flight and tunnel vision. I don't care if you have 2 sets of crew switching off you are going from cruise to stress in short time frame with ground issues going on. There is a lot going on and without knowing both sides of the story you can't even make a guess really. The second controller did a great job. That is one stress filled job!
How, you are? Simple: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. BAW was probably preparing for a go-around had he heard of FDX's blown tyre, then prepped the needed diversion, then communicated back to ATC.
It is in the regulation to state BREAK to separate instructions and information to the same aircraft. For example, "FDX001, traffic 11 o'clock and 3 miles, a C172 - BREAK- runway 27, cleared to land." It is in the regulations to state BREAK BREAK to separate instructions to two different aircraft. For example, "FDX001, traffic 11 o'clock and 3 miles, a C172 - BREAK BREAK- American 999, runway 27, cleared to land." This is useful in terms of frequency occupation. No readback is to be expected from the first aircraft unless it was a critical clearance which in that case BREAK BREAK should not be used.
Only certain instructions require readback. If the controller issues an instruction that does not require a readback they may say "break." Example, I fly out of chicago regularly and the ground controllers will read off taxi instructions to multiple aircraft without stopping, so long as there are no hold short instructions
But, functionally, it's not the best idea because it obviates the requirement for acknowledgement by the first aircraft and if the second call sign isn't very well stated, or repeated, that call might be missed as well. in the case of a lesser experienced VFR pilot, the last thing you want to do is confuse them. They really start hogging the freq.
VASAviation - VAS, I have read through the FAA7110, there is no such "Break" phraseology, it is not authorized for use. This was a mistake by the controller. Perhaps, it may be in another countries ATC rule book, but not in 7110. The only time the word "Break" is authorized, is when instructing a fighter jet to "Report the break", this is an overhead approach executed by fighter aircraft.
That is one reason to NOT clear everyone to land. I really think they MUST change their way of doing this: NEVER give cleared to land unless the runways IS clear. If it's tight traffic, use "Expect late landing clearance" but NEVER use Cleared to land. If they didn't do this here, all the following pilots would automatically just fly published missed if they do not hear anything.
How about the workload for the controllers? You got an extra two way conversation for each landing and the controllers must focus on the landing aircraft cos they have to issue the "late clearance". I used to train in san diego area and most of the training airports are very busy with up to 10 aircrafts in the circuit, this is the only way they can accommodate the numbers of the aircrafts and a very smooth flow. We were always train not to lose track on the aircraft we are following and actually the pilot can always force the controller to do the conventional way by insisting they don't have the previous traffic in sight. If you accept the early clearance, you accept the responsibility to maintain visual separation and let the ATC know if you lose the target.
Maybe I’m prejudiced as a former Enroute controller, but the Tower controller seemed rattled and started getting call signs wrong. It wasn’t that big a deal. Execute missed approach and start stacking them into holding. The Approach Controller seemed more in control though he, too, got call signs wrong. New York Center used to shit the door on us when JFK had delays and we’d have to start stacking up to 10 and more into holding north and around Norfolk. It doesn’t have to be an emergency fire drill.
Fred Eversole Come on Fred,tell the truth, when JFK is going down, flow control starts stacking and spinning them as far away as Salt Lake City! Really, I follow your point, just jesting with you!! The only difference i see here is the amount of airspace he has for vectoring, seems to be a big concern to him. With a bit of coordination, i bet he can borrow some airspace from bordering facilities.
ahhh, I was a Controller BEFORE Flow Control got started. (I was Fired in 1981) Still, NY Center absorbed the first hit then they 'slammed the door' on us. Our Norfolk High sector was not more than 20miles wide because of Patuxent River Restricted airspace to the West and W-385 (if that is the correct number ...it's been a while) to the East. Didn't matter, .... we' started holding south of Salisbury then, if necessary, just north of Norfolk and over Cape Charles. We wanted the first holding point to be where NY Center could see them piling up just south of their sector so they might take them earlier! Nothing like knowing you've got a mess getting messier that's all coming to you to help you push the next controller into relieving the pressure. I was told very early on that the more Junior folks were in the Tower then progressed into Approach Control. If that was the case in this instance, it sounded like it. The Local Controller probably doesn't have any area since he just deals with inbound and departures. He just sounded rattled a bit when it should've been straight forward....wave off incoming by issuing Missed Approached controls and give back to Arrivals so they could take them away from the airport to hold or divert. Maybe today, Flow Control sees weather building and starts flow restrictions. We didn't really have that then. I believe it was starting, but we went Old School and pushed as much as we could to help out the pilots without compromising safety. After the Strike, I always said a monkey could control 50 in trail with flow restrictions. Kinda defeats the purpose of a competent controller moving traffic.
Rumour has it that Cirrus Charlie Delta is still waiting for ATC to create a hole, and let him land. Whatever happened to the first-come-first-serve at US airports?
Not quite what happened, one was tower, the other was approach, if I'm not mistaken. You're right he sounded stressed though, but he did a good job I'd say. I think he had been getting a little nervous with a busy airport having its (I think only) runway suddenly blocked, but what really made him freak was the BA ("speedbird") that wasn't responding to his calls with the critical "go-around" instruction, making it seem like they weren't listening and were going to land on the runway with the disabled FedEx on it! I'm no expert, but that felt like a close one even from home! (It may not be as bad as his voice made it sound though).
I watched one of your videos the other day where the controller told the light aircraft that was no 1 for landing to go around because there was a commercial coming up behind. It is my understanding that the rules are based on first come first served. That previous video ended up as a fatality and in this video the same malarkey is going on. Telling someone to make a tight turn when they are at low speed is surely asking for trouble anyway.
The airliner is IFR flight plan and the Cirrus wasn't following the pattern at a high enough speed. The tower can re-sequence aircraft to maintain separation.
IFR should not have priority over VFRs or light aircraft but ATC can resequence to better the traffic flow. That one of his tasks as a controller, move the traffic as smooth and efficient as possible.
Martin Connor I follow what you mean, but we would have to see exactly where CD was when the turn was issued. I would say, he did not want CD to continue extending his downwind leg. Then again with the heavy at 7 nm, it could get tight, the heavy would eat up CD. Also, if CD was just practicing approaches, during this traffic period, he can be instructed to leave the pattern or hold visually.
You’re partly correct, He should’ve been able to land but the pilot didn’t. He did clear him to land and asked him to keep it in tight but the Cirrus pilot took his sweet time. If you want to fly into the big airports in a light plane you can’t fly like you’re still at the little neighborhood airport.
That's not 9.5 total minutes of fuel left, just 9.5 minutes of their normal trip fuel. All commercial aircraft carry additional fuel for contingencies and diversions.
Don't forget that diverting brings a lot of costs to the company as well. Passenger ferrying, crew and plane not at their expected location, etc. Their company will probably be grateful if they stick around as long as possible to land at the intended destination airport.
Well, I find, as long as the controller is on top of everything, it's less stressful as you get your clearance as soon as you go to tower, rather than just getting it as the GPWS calls out 300. I will concur it's probably less safe, but that's how they seem to do it.
Ondřej Bakan You know the saying, If you can not stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! What is so unnerving? You hear the clearance, follow the instruction and aircraft ahead and land. PS. They do not land at the same time, they are separate by the required spacing!
6 ปีที่แล้ว +2
Ruben Villanueva: Because in aviation, safety comes first as you already know. In my opinion, aircraft should be CLEARED to land, when it's safe to land and the runway is clear. In case of problems, it increases workload of ATC, who has to cancel landing clearance and issue a go-around. Just imagine if ATC forgot or pilot won't hear the go-around instruction. When you say "cleared to land" to 3rd aircraft in a sequence, you basically lie. Thankfully, that's just a US thing.
I partially agree. The “anticipated” separation rule opens the door to these issues but as a pilot, I don’t care if I am cleared to land; I still visually check for a clear runway first.
Okay so the cirrus is cleared to land but the landing was canceled.....why? so the big faster MD11 could land. Sorry but not my fault you put the MD11 behind me. If he cant slow to accommodate my speed then he should go around! Were all apart of the ATC system no matter how small or big.
I watched one of yours or someone else's video where an engine flamed out on a freighter aircraft and I couldn't believe how many liers there is in the world. I seen about 4 comments of people saying they were a passenger on that aircraft and they seen flames coming from the engine and that people were screaming, until i reminded them that it's a cargo aircraft so they would not be a passenger unless they work for the company and are hitching a ride and they instantly delete their message. I don't know why people lie about being on an aircraft that's had mechanical issues. But the most lies I see on aviation video's is people saying "I am a pilot" and they start running their cum catchers, pretending to know everything there is about flying.
Aviation Nut I agree with you. If you recall, there were people saying they were inside the Twin Towers when the fell, but managed to walk out. Just abnormal human behaviour during a stressful period. As for this site, I like the fact that some people have no idea how ATC or pilots have to contend with. Just ask, there are many with hands on knowledge and they will be glad to enlighten you. No need to say something outlandish, and be corrected for your lack of research.
As fast as some of them talk, I would think more like they have 5-Hour being I-V fed. I listen to ATC here at LAS quite a bit - they seem to switch off quite frequently - maybe 30 mins on, 15 mins off.
ThatWasSexy basically it means since you haven’t heard the airports ATIS. The controller tells you the altimeter settings, winds, RWY’s that are in use. And any NOTAMS the airport may have at the time.
Vishvas Sudarshan 9.5 minutes. That’s what’s remaining before they must go into their calculated reserve which is used only for diversion. They really have about an hour before totally empty.
![[REAL ATC] United B777 BIRD STRIKE + GRASS FIRE at Denver! | Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xd0qjF2zYEM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] United B777 BIRD STRIKE + GRASS FIRE at Denver! | Part 1](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] Embraer E175 diverts to Reno | 5 passengers injured!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZVtjI1NJ2y8/mqdefault.jpg)
This video was edited on 30/JAN/2018. Recent videos are edited according to the real STARS radar format.
VASAviation - really love all your videos, and rarely see any corrections. This time I do have one very small correction in your transcript. You indicate tower controller responding incorrectly SWA but my ear did hear DAL apparently so did DAL as he never questioned this clearance. Listened to it 3 times and heard DAL every time.
And I like to fact you are using real radar data, thanks.
Friendly tip. Traffic is already plural (defective noun) so "traffics" is not a real word. Should be "traffic".
@@MrThisIsMeToo Oh thank you 2nd grade English teacher...
Approach handled that like an total champ. His speed is absolutely astounding.
That's why I wanted to show it on the video. I found him awesome.
Sure did, the tower controller seemed a bit stressed but when the BA flight took their time answering I understand
I fly training out of KMYF and talk to this guy all the time, one of my fav SoCal controllers for sure.
Yeah, approach was amazing.
Approach guy was terrific! In control, quick with instructions and inspired confidence. Well done!
Tower had some adrenaline rocketing through his voice, but still pulled it all together perfectly - despite the massive and obvious stress he was facing in a very fearful situation. Approach was a robotic champion of efficiency. Both reacted differently, both handled it flawlessly. I'll have solid peace of mind flying in to San Diego in the future!
Wow hats off to that control that's some very good skill he showed.
You can really hear the controller get stressed trying to reroute all of the incoming planes in his airspace.
Approach did great... Tower seemed a little frazzled when BAW44N didn't respond right away and N469CD was not turning north as directed, putting them on track to a mid air. He recovered pretty good, though.
Absolutely, did an excellent job. Just pointing out you can hear the stress in their voice. This is why I'm extra nice to controllers when I communicate with them.
xseig3x yes, good catch. When the runway gets blocked, the pressure goes up. You think of the aircraft you have in hand, then the vectoring that you must start, then keeping them within your airspace, then you think of the aircraft coming your way that are being stepped down in altitude by center, then you think about divert airports that can handle diverts, then the fuel of these aircraft that are being given the scenic tour until the runway is open, and last but not least, the weather. To reach this point of professionalism takes lots of training, and the ability to focus and make decisions, knowing that each decision must be correct. Great job done by this approach controller.
Ruben Villanueva I was overwhelmed just reading that! I guess a second career in ATC isn't in my future!
I saw and heard this in real time from my favorite SAN watching spot in San Diego and was very pleasantly surprised to see this nice production here on TH-cam. People who were listening on the scanners were actually coming out of their houses on a street just east of the airport to see this unfold . They were aghast that the British 747 failed to answer at least three calls from the tower while on final. I stood there with a couple of other locals speculating on where the Speedbird would end up after he got the go around command. LAX of course made the most sense because he was probably bingo fuel.
Just another day at the office for the SOCAL controller, who was excellent. For the tower controller, high early evening volume, plus the disabled aircraft on the runway, PLUS the somewhat nonresponsive inbound 747 has got to be about as stressful as it gets - he was great too.
I was on the ramp that day. Loudest bang I’ve ever herd in my life.
Jorge Lopez didn’t think it’d be loud
Must have been quite a hard landing...
747 was insanely loud
Very loud but could have been SO so much worse ✔
@@rivvur Question: How could sudden pressure change, especially when said formerly-pressurized object is situated below thousands of pounds of external force, NOT be loud?
I mean, aside from aircraft and airfields just generally being loud already, I think an exploding tire on a passenger jet would be pretty loud by default.
Really enjoyed that you went back and showed app to us aswell 👌🏻 thats where the real magic happens and its actually stressfull apparently
Years ago I was on about a four mile final for runway 27 at Monterey airport in California. CAVU day. Monterey approach had vectored a United 737-200 behind me and I was in a Seminole keeping my speed up as much as I could. I offered to break off and let him become # 1 but approach kept me #1 and made the 737 three-sixty. Lol I feel bad to this day for all the excess JET A they had to burn for a Piperdriver. The PNF actually thanked me for the offer. I was paying $12/every 6 minutes
Far cheaper than United's fuel ticket!
Stephen Bond Yeah, but United was full of passengers helping pay the fuel bill! Thanks for the story, it's a funny mental image 😆
Robyn Broyles so true. Wish I could have met the pilots on the tarmac. Those were the days when you could almost walk on the ramp freely. We used to fly into Sfo and hang out all day on the GA ramp. Ocassionally I'd ask to hold for a few minutes right off the active and watch a 747 rotate right in front of us. You could feel the ground shake!
The approach radio com was amazing to hear at first. That guy deserves all the moneys
SoCal is the busiest ATC facility on earth. They are also the best. It isn't even a question.
I remember hearing the bang right when it touched down. Also remember seeing Speedbird pulling up and claiming slow.
One little suggestion: Can you highlight the aircraft with glow effects when the controller is talking to the subject aircraft or the aircraft is talking? It is quite hard for us to find that aircraft on the radar.
The radar shows the callsign and I put the callsign in the captions, why is it hard?
Akira Akiyama
I found the Aircraft the ATC was talking to with no problem, it's very easy to see them.
Thank you, VASA, for continuing to bring us these nicely edited videos for us to enjoy and learn. We, the loyal majority of the 100K+ subscribers of this channel, always look forward to get the next notification of your newest video and would like to continue to help you improve the channel, even if we can just do it with a just a suggestion.
To help Akira with answering your question, here I am adding my 2 cents:
I also believe that it could make it easier to quickly find the aircraft on the screen, especially when there is a lot of traffic involved as in this video. Even on a large screen it is not easy to quickly identify the aircraft by trying to read all the labels shown. Thank you again and keep up the good work, we do appreciate!
~~~
I really admire the work of the air traffic controllers because it would drive me crazy if I had to stare at a radarscope and safely coordinate where the planes have to go in a situation like this.
VASAviation - Love your work, but I agree with the others. Don't make anything fancy, a small microphone icon or color change where the talking aircraft would be great! Or more colors as you sometimes have used, but might be difficult when there are this many aircraft around. Anyways, love your content, you are truly adding a lot of effort and love into these videos!
Don't know about the others, but some of us have 'older eyes'... Which makes it a bit harder at times to locate the plane, especially when there are a lot of them. And, I am sometimes on a smaller screen. But, I still love and appreciate your work. And, I'm astounded at how ATC's handle things!
That air traffic controller sounded like he was having a panic attack
The first tower controller might had been a trainee because the one that relieved him is more calm and sounded like he knows what he is doing.
Wyatt Riemenschneider Check out the radar. ATC had an SR22 and a B744 very close to colliding and a B744 that wasn't responding and was getting lower. I'd get nervous too.
Sean Booher The concern here was not the SR22 but the BA continues to land with a disabled aircraft on the rwy would had been catastrophic. The SR 22 is on downwind the only reason they want him out of the bravo so that they can utilize the entire area for vectoring other aircraft that will be going missed.
Sean Booher Can you elaborate on that comment?
Hey look, another case where anticipated separation could have lead to a catastrophe. They really should reconsider that rule.
Told my wife about this, said it explained pretty well why british went up to LAX for no other apparent reason that day. Also, I live directly under the North and West approaches about 3-4 miles short of the right hand turn said flights take to line up for runway 27, so its really cool to see everything mapped out via radar. One of my favorite fishing spots is directly under the takeoff for runway 27. Which makes for an epic sight when runway 9 is in use. Single runway airport is really fun to listen idly to during the day too lol
More videos from San Diego with real radar format are coming soon :)
I wonder why they don’t file MMTJ as alternative airport. It will a lot cheaper to use CBX. How did your wife get to SD from LAX?
CBX is for departures only. And, IIRC, BAW44N refueled and hopped back from LAX to SAN afterward.
They probably don't file tj as the alternate due to it being a different country. And British has facilities at lax, dunno about down at tj though.
CBX is not for departures only. That would defeat the point. It would, however, likely be overwhelmed by a full 747.
The main reasons have to do with a lack of facilities at TIJ, while they have 3 flights a day to LAX, plus all sorts of customs issues that could spring up when getting the aircraft back to SAN for the departure later. This isn't like they were on emergency bingo fuel - they were diverting to their alternate.
Any chance you could get footage from the near collision at Amsterdam Schiphol on march 28th or 29th? Apparently a go around and a departing aircraft had a near collision...
Southwest: 9.5 minutes of fuel remaining until BINGO
Pac Valley: We can wait for an hour
Ameriflight: I got 3 hours
KOAK and KSAN, 2 of the last major metro airports with a single runway left in the system. Makes for a much more stressed situation for the tower when something goes wrong, so I can see why SAN TWR sounded a little out of sorts while trying to reroute a 744 that took a while to answer. Actually OAK has north field but the longest of it's 3 runways is almost half the length of main runway.
BA crew waited until 800’ to call tower... and then they didn’t get what they were expecting....
They couldn't have landed anyway since they didn't have a clearance. Delaying a call to Tower doesn't mean anything. Finally ended up landing at LAX and repositioning back to SAN minutes later.
These ATC audio clips really make it clear why people love speedbird callsign so much...
glad it was just a blown tyre, not belly up like the one in Japan. MD-11 is notoriously hard to land
Poor 9CD :D
LOL an SR22 landing at Lindbergh..life must be really hard for him.
He almost made it! :-)
I actually went spotting that say and filmed the FedEx MD-11 and British Airways going around!
*Video:*
th-cam.com/video/HI3KG0Fqgcw/w-d-xo.html
I didn't hear the tire blow up even tho I ended the video right away!
Admittedly the first, Lindbergh Tower controller was dealing with the situation as best he could, but to me he sounds stressed and rattled. Not that either of these things are necessarily unexpected! The arrivals controller, on the other hand, sounds cool as a cucumber...
I CONCUR
Southwest was pretty tight on fuel. Despite the reserves for an alternate airport that's still quite few.
That is awesome! Of course there are other jobs with high responsibility but I do not know any other job with responsibility for so many people at once with so many decisions at that speed... Btw- Great idea to show both tower and approach. Thanks a lot!
It's amazing they here each other half the time.
thanks for all the time to compile; i would point out the initial controller telling a cirrus to keep it tight and kicking them out of sequence for a commercial behind. doesn't this sound familiar? a cirrus crash after multiple go arounds for commercial traffic and a request to keep it tight? telling a person to keep it tight would tend to have the effect of that person pushing the limits. NOT a good phrase. and any a/c in sequence should be able to keep the slot, if they are in danger of being run over then the following A/C should go around. every one should be equal, barring emergencies.
3:57 .. 500 Hundred!~
TWR: Sigh, Go Around -_-
Any more info on this? Did the tire blow or did the brake plugs blow?
So, at the end, Southwest and Compass (the two on low fuel) made it in without diverting?
5495D IS A PLUS ONE A/C. FIRST AIRCRAFT I EVER FLEW, AND ITS IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS SHOW
Almost had a completely different issue asking a Cirrus to "turn in tight".. Yikes! aka N4252G.. but fantastic work among all controllers!
That was the South Bay sector of SoCal Tracon, world class controllers qualified on that scope. Some of the best controllers in the world no question, SoCal airspace is in good hands.
Amazing !!
3:57 “500” lol
You could really hear the stress in the tower controller's voice. Good hustle all around though.
I am really surprised that the people in San Diego County have not pushed to make NKX a Joint/Us facility and put a civilian terminal there, extend 6R/24L by 4000 feet so it would have two runways long enough to handle anything. There is a heck of lot more open spaces there than at SAN, and it has two parallel runways. Get a disabled aircraft on one, just secure that scene and (if they are far enough apart) commence landing on the second. Now that the Navy has moved everything to Fallon or Lemoore, why not?
LOL - I guess you don't know that story. NIMBY's defeated that proposal, then the Marines saw a chance to get a beautiful facility and took it.
I'd take that deal, especially since the USN will still have ownership of it then! Smart.
And I thought I had a stressful job,,,hats off to pilots and air traffic controllers... bravo zulu
wow. These guys rock.
Great video. Tower seemed to get stressed very fast. I don’t think clearing 9CD was a good choice since fedex had such a high overtake speed. The approach controller was amazing. The speed at which he was working and only getting the wrong call sign once shows that the training needed to do this job pays off. It’s times like this that controllers really shine to keep us all safe.
That tower controller is actually very good, having talked to him before and had him work me in traffic (can't miss that New York accent in San Diego). With an airport like SAN, a true single runway with a ton of traffic, that will be a stressful situation, especially with an impatient and unfamiliar Cirrus in the pattern and a 747 bearing down on final and not talking to you immediately after you have an aircraft disabled on the runway.
Approach is a machine!
could you possible find the (emirates?) flight that did an emergency landing into reykjavik, iceland a couple weeks ago?
i followed it live in fr24 with my friends in swedish class.
i got the emergency notification on my device while they had just reached iceland’s airspace.
i’d love to hear the atc on this!
The use of -BREAK- uncommon but effective to push tin 7:03
Great final controller.
Sounds to me like you did an awesome job my hat's off to him
I don't get it with BA at Lindbergh. They nearly always seem to call in quite late inbound, and I don't think it is due to SoCal not handing them off.
Fantastic job by the controllers. Amazing.
Speedbird pilots seem to be a bit slow. I could tell ATC was getting annoyed. How can you miss numerous calls on such a short final?
He was not missing any calls, either they switched frequency very late or Approach handed them off very late. When he said he was on a 3 mile final it indicated he had just come on the Tower frequency and contacted them.
they wouldn't hand them off on a 3 mile file. He was handed off during the sped up portion
Long flight and tunnel vision. I don't care if you have 2 sets of crew switching off you are going from cruise to stress in short time frame with ground issues going on. There is a lot going on and without knowing both sides of the story you can't even make a guess really. The second controller did a great job. That is one stress filled job!
How, you are? Simple: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
BAW was probably preparing for a go-around had he heard of FDX's blown tyre, then prepped the needed diversion, then communicated back to ATC.
even if no mistake was made, I can see how it would have been comforting to know if they cancelled their landing !!!
Never heard a controller say “break” and issue a command to another aircraft. Is that in the 7710 somewhere?
It is in the regulation to state BREAK to separate instructions and information to the same aircraft. For example, "FDX001, traffic 11 o'clock and 3 miles, a C172 - BREAK- runway 27, cleared to land."
It is in the regulations to state BREAK BREAK to separate instructions to two different aircraft. For example, "FDX001, traffic 11 o'clock and 3 miles, a C172 - BREAK BREAK- American 999, runway 27, cleared to land."
This is useful in terms of frequency occupation. No readback is to be expected from the first aircraft unless it was a critical clearance which in that case BREAK BREAK should not be used.
Only certain instructions require readback. If the controller issues an instruction that does not require a readback they may say "break." Example, I fly out of chicago regularly and the ground controllers will read off taxi instructions to multiple aircraft without stopping, so long as there are no hold short instructions
But, functionally, it's not the best idea because it obviates the requirement for acknowledgement by the first aircraft and if the second call sign isn't very well stated, or repeated, that call might be missed as well. in the case of a lesser experienced VFR pilot, the last thing you want to do is confuse them. They really start hogging the freq.
VASAviation - VAS, I have read through the FAA7110, there is no such "Break" phraseology, it is not authorized for use. This was a mistake by the controller. Perhaps, it may be in another countries ATC rule book, but not in 7110. The only time the word "Break" is authorized, is when instructing a fighter jet to "Report the break", this is an overhead approach executed by fighter aircraft.
A small commercial plane (23 passengers) plane just landed KGJT with an engine failure in case you are interested. 7:54am local time.
Thanks for the info.
That is one reason to NOT clear everyone to land. I really think they MUST change their way of doing this: NEVER give cleared to land unless the runways IS clear.
If it's tight traffic, use "Expect late landing clearance" but NEVER use Cleared to land.
If they didn't do this here, all the following pilots would automatically just fly published missed if they do not hear anything.
How about the workload for the controllers? You got an extra two way conversation for each landing and the controllers must focus on the landing aircraft cos they have to issue the "late clearance". I used to train in san diego area and most of the training airports are very busy with up to 10 aircrafts in the circuit, this is the only way they can accommodate the numbers of the aircrafts and a very smooth flow. We were always train not to lose track on the aircraft we are following and actually the pilot can always force the controller to do the conventional way by insisting they don't have the previous traffic in sight. If you accept the early clearance, you accept the responsibility to maintain visual separation and let the ATC know if you lose the target.
No emergency comms? Would love to hear what the Airport was saying on ground. lol
Why cirrus approach get cancelled?
Impressive
Very cool video thanks!
Blowing a tyre on landing, ouch!
Maybe I’m prejudiced as a former Enroute controller, but the Tower controller seemed rattled and started getting call signs wrong. It wasn’t that big a deal. Execute missed approach and start stacking them into holding. The Approach Controller seemed more in control though he, too, got call signs wrong. New York Center used to shit the door on us when JFK had delays and we’d have to start stacking up to 10 and more into holding north and around Norfolk. It doesn’t have to be an emergency fire drill.
Fred Eversole Come on Fred,tell the truth, when JFK is going down, flow control starts stacking and spinning them as far away as Salt Lake City! Really, I follow your point, just jesting with you!! The only difference i see here is the amount of airspace he has for vectoring, seems to be a big concern to him. With a bit of coordination, i bet he can borrow some airspace from bordering facilities.
ahhh, I was a Controller BEFORE Flow Control got started. (I was Fired in 1981) Still, NY Center absorbed the first hit then they 'slammed the door' on us. Our Norfolk High sector was not more than 20miles wide because of Patuxent River Restricted airspace to the West and W-385 (if that is the correct number ...it's been a while) to the East. Didn't matter, .... we' started holding south of Salisbury then, if necessary, just north of Norfolk and over Cape Charles. We wanted the first holding point to be where NY Center could see them piling up just south of their sector so they might take them earlier! Nothing like knowing you've got a mess getting messier that's all coming to you to help you push the next controller into relieving the pressure. I was told very early on that the more Junior folks were in the Tower then progressed into Approach Control. If that was the case in this instance, it sounded like it. The Local Controller probably doesn't have any area since he just deals with inbound and departures. He just sounded rattled a bit when it should've been straight forward....wave off incoming by issuing Missed Approached controls and give back to Arrivals so they could take them away from the airport to hold or divert. Maybe today, Flow Control sees weather building and starts flow restrictions. We didn't really have that then. I believe it was starting, but we went Old School and pushed as much as we could to help out the pilots without compromising safety. After the Strike, I always said a monkey could control 50 in trail with flow restrictions. Kinda defeats the purpose of a competent controller moving traffic.
Fred Eversole I met many of your fellow brothers controlling in Bharain, and Saudi Arabia. ICAO was very nice with their monetary benefits!
FedEx has to stop getting their tires at Tire Barn!
Rumour has it that Cirrus Charlie Delta is still waiting for ATC to create a hole, and let him land. Whatever happened to the first-come-first-serve at US airports?
The first controller sounded a little bit flustered. The second controller came in and got a grip of the situation.
Not quite what happened, one was tower, the other was approach, if I'm not mistaken. You're right he sounded stressed though, but he did a good job I'd say. I think he had been getting a little nervous with a busy airport having its (I think only) runway suddenly blocked, but what really made him freak was the BA ("speedbird") that wasn't responding to his calls with the critical "go-around" instruction, making it seem like they weren't listening and were going to land on the runway with the disabled FedEx on it! I'm no expert, but that felt like a close one even from home! (It may not be as bad as his voice made it sound though).
Ground has ice water in his veins.
I watched one of your videos the other day where the controller told the light aircraft that was no 1 for landing to go around because there was a commercial coming up behind. It is my understanding that the rules are based on first come first served. That previous video ended up as a fatality and in this video the same malarkey is going on. Telling someone to make a tight turn when they are at low speed is surely asking for trouble anyway.
Martin Connor was just about to make the same comment.
The airliner is IFR flight plan and the Cirrus wasn't following the pattern at a high enough speed. The tower can re-sequence aircraft to maintain separation.
IFR should not have priority over VFRs or light aircraft but ATC can resequence to better the traffic flow. That one of his tasks as a controller, move the traffic as smooth and efficient as possible.
Martin Connor I follow what you mean, but we would have to see exactly where CD was when the turn was issued. I would say, he did not want CD to continue extending his downwind leg. Then again with the heavy at 7 nm, it could get tight, the heavy would eat up CD. Also, if CD was just practicing approaches, during this traffic period, he can be instructed to leave the pattern or hold visually.
This airport really has its share of GA.
San Diego needs a new airport...preferably one with an additional runway lol
John Ham Yes, drain San Diego bay, fill it in, build something similar to Narita airport in Japan.
Why did atc not allow that cirrus to land? It’s first come first serve. That cirrus should have been able to land before that MD11
Probably close enough and MD-11 should have gone around.
You’re partly correct, He should’ve been able to land but the pilot didn’t. He did clear him to land and asked him to keep it in tight but the Cirrus pilot took his sweet time. If you want to fly into the big airports in a light plane you can’t fly like you’re still at the little neighborhood airport.
Doesn't matter what airport you fly at. Were all apart of the same system.
"I have 9.5 minutes of fuel left, but hey, we'll be fine out here for 10 minutes!"
Facepalm
That's not 9.5 total minutes of fuel left, just 9.5 minutes of their normal trip fuel. All commercial aircraft carry additional fuel for contingencies and diversions.
Totally agree. That was like "dang, we should'nt have said 9.5 that early. Let's say we can make 10 before diverting anyway"
What's 30 seconds of gliding on a 10hr flight anyway?
Don't forget that diverting brings a lot of costs to the company as well. Passenger ferrying, crew and plane not at their expected location, etc. Their company will probably be grateful if they stick around as long as possible to land at the intended destination airport.
gomphrena
That's only 30 seconds of gliding. Hold my beer i got this, but if we have to go around you can have the controls.
10 min of fuel....I want him to divert to the nearest airport. That would stress me out...just waiting and not knowing.
I hate those landing clearances in US so much... 3 aircrafts cleared to land on rwy 27 at the same time...
Well, I find, as long as the controller is on top of everything, it's less stressful as you get your clearance as soon as you go to tower, rather than just getting it as the GPWS calls out 300. I will concur it's probably less safe, but that's how they seem to do it.
Ondřej Bakan You know the saying, If you can not stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! What is so unnerving? You hear the clearance, follow the instruction and aircraft ahead and land. PS. They do not land at the same time, they are separate by the required spacing!
Ruben Villanueva: Because in aviation, safety comes first as you already know. In my opinion, aircraft should be CLEARED to land, when it's safe to land and the runway is clear.
In case of problems, it increases workload of ATC, who has to cancel landing clearance and issue a go-around. Just imagine if ATC forgot or pilot won't hear the go-around instruction.
When you say "cleared to land" to 3rd aircraft in a sequence, you basically lie. Thankfully, that's just a US thing.
I partially agree. The “anticipated” separation rule opens the door to these issues but as a pilot, I don’t care if I am cleared to land; I still visually check for a clear runway first.
Wade Saxton Well put! That is why we, pilots and controllers strive to be perfect. It is personal pride.
I always wondered how many take offs and landings a tire lasts on a 747….
More traffic than a Vatsim FNO :)
Wow, there's an SR22 casually hanging around on radar!
A plane that is difficult to land is by definition a bad airplane. MD-11 landing incidents have been consistent throughout the life of this airplane.
SanDiego sounds shook
I'm sure this happened on 26th Jan as i saw the news and Flightradar24 says so too
Can't remember. This was at 01:00 UTC so I may have put GMT date instead of local.
The tire shown on the picture is from an Airbus, not an MD11...the md or boeing dont have break fans..
I thought he bounced when I read the title
Can you make the airport/runways more visible?
Maps look as real radar screens.
@@VASAviation Since we're all retired ATC, that's very helpful. Not.
As usual, AAA took a long time to get there.
That is the type of voice I like to hear from a controller. But his verbiage was sloppy.
Sdx is a scary short runway, and requires harder braking than many American airports
Hobo G 9,400 ft of concrete? What are you landing the the Enterprise!
🤨 Go in MDW when it’s wet
Wade Saxton Well, hope the winds favor 31L, and that you have brand new Firestone tires on! Wet rwys can affect your pucker factor!
Ex ryanair pilot.
It's gonna be a minute, waiting for my Fedex ...
Controller sounds like he's having an aneurysm.
Okay so the cirrus is cleared to land but the landing was canceled.....why? so the big faster MD11 could land. Sorry but not my fault you put the MD11 behind me. If he cant slow to accommodate my speed then he should go around! Were all apart of the ATC system no matter how small or big.
Money matters.
Hectic..
I watched one of yours or someone else's video where an engine flamed out on a freighter aircraft and I couldn't believe how many liers there is in the world. I seen about 4 comments of people saying they were a passenger on that aircraft and they seen flames coming from the engine and that people were screaming, until i reminded them that it's a cargo aircraft so they would not be a passenger unless they work for the company and are hitching a ride and they instantly delete their message. I don't know why people lie about being on an aircraft that's had mechanical issues. But the most lies I see on aviation video's is people saying "I am a pilot" and they start running their cum catchers, pretending to know everything there is about flying.
Aviation Nut I agree with you. If you recall, there were people saying they were inside the Twin Towers when the fell, but managed to walk out. Just abnormal human behaviour during a stressful period. As for this site, I like the fact that some people have no idea how ATC or pilots have to contend with. Just ask, there are many with hands on knowledge and they will be glad to enlighten you. No need to say something outlandish, and be corrected for your lack of research.
Febex cash
And now we know why ATCs drink~!
Randy She That is total BS!!, grow up!
Ruben, that was a joke - Lighten UP!
...a 5 hour energy's every 30 minutes.
As fast as some of them talk, I would think more like they have 5-Hour being I-V fed.
I listen to ATC here at LAS quite a bit - they seem to switch off quite frequently - maybe 30 mins on, 15 mins off.
Md-11?
Affirm
pilotul fedex minte
What
what the hell is an airport advisory
ThatWasSexy basically it means since you haven’t heard the airports ATIS. The controller tells you the altimeter settings, winds, RWY’s that are in use. And any NOTAMS the airport may have at the time.
I think I glean that the channel operator is not a native English speaker, but yikes every transcription has so many errors!
9.5 min of fuel? Isn't that a fuel emergency and why didn't he declare it? (Not a pilot/flight student, forgive me if this is silly)
Vishvas Sudarshan 9.5 minutes. That’s what’s remaining before they must go into their calculated reserve which is used only for diversion. They really have about an hour before totally empty.
If you pay attention, ATC asks for fuel time *before* they need to divert. Not total fuel endurance.
UberDude Thanks!
VASAviation - Guess I need to pay more attention! Thanks for replying, and I love your videos! :)
what’s up with a plane having 3 hours left, isn’t that a very expensive way to fly?
how can the 15 min fuel plane fly to ontario?? its far
You didn't understand. Rewatch the video.
Hey That is Ontario, California! Duh!
Ruben Villanueva I live near Ontario and I don’t think 15 min of fuel can last 110 miles
15 minutes PRIOR diverting.
damned chinese re caps
dave mcstine ,
I thought all those recaps had to be from an approved FAA certified recap source.
I really like your videos but please get back the little aircraft symbols
You have aircrat symbols here. Look at the FedEx landing.
1st
Oh I remember this happening! Wish I was down there filming...
Small world?