*Delay + being in a hurry + icy conditions = Imminent incident* What do you think? Were the pilots in a rush because of their previous delay and slid off the taxiway taxiing quick for departure or is it just an isolated incident that anyone else could have had? Leave your opinion!
VASAviation - Maybe a little of both. I was just thinking, our post-modern world has us thinking we gotta do this or that yesterday. I know how easy it is to get caught up in the do-or-die frantic pace. But are we killing ourselves faster with the stress?
VASAviation - I bet it's that the pilot was rushing. However, the bad weather is large factor. I mean, they were all good sports, but the numerous delays must have been annoying. Lessons learned all around I hope.
The temperature at the time was hovering just about at 32 or 33 and it was raining. However, BWI has stated that the field temperature was warmer than that and there was no ice on any taxiway, and that no other aircraft reported any skidding that whole day. I live about 5 miles away from BWI and there was no ice on the pavement but some on cars. So I'm guessing there was no ice on the taxiway at BWI and this was either pilot error or some brake problem.
In my opinion there was no skidding and the Captain that always does the taxiing failed to make the turn as in distracted taxiing. I based this on the position of the aircraft from the video. A skid would have been while turning and the fuselage was pointing in the direction of the taxi line from the taxiway. Major good! Ret Captain.
Pilot to cabin: We're just waiting in our sequence here..nothing going on here just enjoy the view. Pilot to copilot: I told them not to roll the trucks bro, should be sweet.... Pilot sourrounded by trucks: @#$%!
It still blows me away the quick coordination and communications in these situations. A true testament to the training and dedication to their work all the way around
Great coverage. Reminds me of LOF ERJ that went off the taxiway in BNA about 4 weeks ago (1/12). I learned, from LiveATC archives, they tried to do two 180° turns during taxi in -FZRA or might’ve misjudged their 2nd turn radius.
I found it kind of odd how you made the graphic for SWA906 disappear from time to time. If time is sped up, I would rather see the graphic moving faster rather than it disappearing from one place and then appearing in another, at least in my opinion. Other than that, I liked the graphics.
SWA pilots are notorious for moving quick on the ground (gotta keep that on time perf up) I'm gonna guess that might have been the case with this, then the slick spot on PAPA. plus the impatience with the ground stop. no one else had or reported and issue
A car driving at 40 MPH can easily slide... why won't a couple-ton plane... imagine you are driving a semi on Icy roads, with fewer wheels and more weight.
Generally big jets are actually pretty hard to get sliding, since they have so much ground pressure eon each tire. Generally, provided the pilots don't get too crazy (or if they do, leave one reverser open), I find they usually don't slide, even on two inch thick ice (I work at KJAC, and our snow removal is brushes and plows, and nothing else).
@@MillionFoul i work at CYUL and CYMX for over 20 years ... ive seen many plane slide off the taxi way ... usually it is because they are going way to fast ! i even seen air algerie do a full 360 ! but like you said if the pilot as common sence he will take it easy ! what kind of broom truck and plows where you using over there ? here it is mostly oshkosh and larue
@@marcvachesus9071 My airport uses four Overassen brooms/plows and a variety of other equipment to plow the ramps. During the storm we had yesterday and today, they run back and forth down the runway non-stop from 0530 to 2130. And then of course, we have the classic line guy with a shovel, the ultimate snow-removal equipment!
I know this is old but EDCT is Estimated Departure Clearance Time, basically it means that due to some Traffic Management Initiative (TMI) they are holding aircraft bound for the destination on the ground for a time. Usually because there are delays at the destination airport and too many aircraft are building up in the holding pattern. Better to hold them on the ground than have aircraft circling around burning fuel because there are no free landing slots at the destination for them at their expected arrival time.
BWI is often very poorly prepared for weather that is predicted a week ahead of time. One of the issues that I've seen drive get-there-itis with WN flights is flight crew duty cycle limits, especially with de-icing and cascading delays. The flight crew may exceed their duty cycle if the flight is already airborne, but once they exceed it on the ground, they have to return to the gate and get a new crew; and if there's no available crew (this happens often with wx) then they have to cancel the flight.
How did they get him out? Did the tug push the aircraft from the grass? I don‘t think a tug would have very much torque on the grass.. also i think it might get stuck aswel
VASAviation - I‘m just wondering how.. because a proper tug wouldn‘t fit under a 737 and i’d imagine a small tug wouldn‘t have the torque to pull a fully loaded 737 out of the grass
I've had to unstuck an A320 from the snow after it overran the runway at KJAC. In that situation, we had a single airline tug, a lot of chains, tow straps, and four tractors. Then we had shovels and every ramp agent and lineman on the airport pushing. Had to have one guy leaning out the door to tell them to hit the brakes once we got them unstuck, and then the tug pulled them to the gate. If our Lektros had been rated for it, we would have used one, because they'll fit under the plane, and they have way more than enough torque. Our newest is rated for a 737 BBJ, and can probably do a 75 if we were feeling crazy.
It was REALLY icy here yesterday morning (Baltimore), schools closed in the area and there was a number of accidents. Not surprised there was an incident at BWI Edit: I find the lack of a Bawlmer accent disturbing.
It's possible they were in a rush, but they also could have gotten deicing fluid on the brakes or wheels which would have caused decreased braking performance.
7:34 A civilian aviation person can probably answer this...When I was in the USAF we were instructed to never request "clearance" to cross a runway with a vehicle to avoid confusion with an aircraft getting clearance. We were to ask "permission" to cross. Is it not that way in the civil sector? Or maybe that rule is just old?
I find it odd that so many assume pilot error (taxiing too fast). The engines at idle can push the aircraft on ice with the brakes locked/set. In 1989 we had a major ice storm. Our 4 wheel drive pushback couldn't even push the aircraft off of the gate with the engines idling. He had to shut down, then we had to push him back and he restarted on the tarmac. Here is some good examples of aircraft on ice........ th-cam.com/video/JmAG-IU0Et0/w-d-xo.html
I can't really see the engines but unless they retrofitted the B738s with those winglets wouldn't that make it a 737 MAX and not a 738? I don't know the ICAO code for the maxes. But I know it can't be B738.
Rubbish, from experience, an empty B738 with low fuel is light. The CFM 26K engines on the ground provides about 25% power, and B.E.W. is about 42 tonnes. if you taxi onto ice, same as a car or another metaphor could be downhill skis, no matter which way you turn your front wheels or skis on ice, without friction, you're going one direction....forward. The norm is that people usually slow down to a safe speed on black, white or rime ice to use their controls. too fast, then Ronnie is always in the bucket.
They do have thrust reversers but on modern planes with large jet engines close to the ground using them to back up carries a high risk of foreign object damage. On turboprops and planes with tail-mounted jets FOD is less of an issue and they do sometimes "powerback".
![[REAL ATC] Cessna Skyhawk LANDS ON TAXIWAY w/ ENGINE FAILURE | Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C8mTksB0fp0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] Cessna Skyhawk LANDS ON TAXIWAY w/ ENGINE FAILURE | Part 1](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] United B777 BIRD STRIKE + GRASS FIRE at Denver! | Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xd0qjF2zYEM/mqdefault.jpg)
*Delay + being in a hurry + icy conditions = Imminent incident*
What do you think? Were the pilots in a rush because of their previous delay and slid off the taxiway taxiing quick for departure or is it just an isolated incident that anyone else could have had? Leave your opinion!
VASAviation - Maybe a little of both. I was just thinking, our post-modern world has us thinking we gotta do this or that yesterday. I know how easy it is to get caught up in the do-or-die frantic pace. But are we killing ourselves faster with the stress?
VASAviation - I bet it's that the pilot was rushing. However, the bad weather is large factor. I mean, they were all good sports, but the numerous delays must have been annoying. Lessons learned all around I hope.
i watched the fire engines leave the station, everyone thought a plane had crashed.
"driving too fast for conditions"
Simple as that. Too much ice on the pavement for the speed they were going.
The temperature at the time was hovering just about at 32 or 33 and it was raining. However, BWI has stated that the field temperature was warmer than that and there was no ice on any taxiway, and that no other aircraft reported any skidding that whole day. I live about 5 miles away from BWI and there was no ice on the pavement but some on cars. So I'm guessing there was no ice on the taxiway at BWI and this was either pilot error or some brake problem.
That de-icer sounds like a bar-keeper mixing up some cocktails :D Love it!
I love everyone's attitude. Especially the qualified de-icer!
what a lovely deicing operator
That de ice guy is so chill
"Ramp? It would be great if you could fly my jet for me also" "Yeah....that would be great"
Really good audio on this feed. Wish all were like this!
Ronnie's stuck in the bucket
Landon Moore poor Ronnie
1 like equals 1 less minute Ronnie waits to get out of his bucket
awful to be him....lol
Press F to pay your respects to Ronnie.
Legend has it, that Ronnie's stuck in that bucket to this day. RIP, Ronnie.
In my opinion there was no skidding and the Captain that always does the taxiing failed to make the turn as in distracted taxiing. I based this on the position of the aircraft from the video. A skid would have been while turning and the fuselage was pointing in the direction of the taxi line from the taxiway. Major good! Ret Captain.
Great animations! I like when I can tell what's going on while everything's unfolding.
Thanks for watching!
Pilot to cabin: We're just waiting in our sequence here..nothing going on here just enjoy the view.
Pilot to copilot: I told them not to roll the trucks bro, should be sweet....
Pilot sourrounded by trucks: @#$%!
6:09 When the pilot says "All is Well" I just picture the ROTC cadet at the parade in Animal House yelling that....it's about as accurate.
It still blows me away the quick coordination and communications in these situations. A true testament to the training and dedication to their work all the way around
Southwest always taxis fast even not delayed.
Great coverage. Reminds me of LOF ERJ that went off the taxiway in BNA about 4 weeks ago (1/12). I learned, from LiveATC archives, they tried to do two 180° turns during taxi in -FZRA or might’ve misjudged their 2nd turn radius.
Is it just me or in Southwest surprisingly often involved in offroad excurcions at the airport?
They tend to taxi faster than the others.
They don't get paid until they're off the ground, so they want to get off the ground fast. It's a reason I like SWA, they are fast and cheap as hell.
Negative. Pilot error
seems like this isnt Ronnies first time getting stuck in the bucket !
This is fast becoming my favorite aviation related channel. Good work VASA.
Thanks! :D
I found it kind of odd how you made the graphic for SWA906 disappear from time to time. If time is sped up, I would rather see the graphic moving faster rather than it disappearing from one place and then appearing in another, at least in my opinion. Other than that, I liked the graphics.
Some people prefer it this way and some others prefer real time and some other prefer speed up animations. Hard to be right with everyone.
This happened to me at DFW in 1988. As a passenger, not a pilot.
lol @ 9:13 - Doesn't matter if ur going to ATL or not bruh
I've been "itching" to hear this!
Here it is! :D
SWA pilots are notorious for moving quick on the ground (gotta keep that on time perf up) I'm gonna guess that might have been the case with this, then the slick spot on PAPA. plus the impatience with the ground stop. no one else had or reported and issue
A car driving at 40 MPH can easily slide... why won't a couple-ton plane... imagine you are driving a semi on Icy roads, with fewer wheels and more weight.
Generally big jets are actually pretty hard to get sliding, since they have so much ground pressure eon each tire. Generally, provided the pilots don't get too crazy (or if they do, leave one reverser open), I find they usually don't slide, even on two inch thick ice (I work at KJAC, and our snow removal is brushes and plows, and nothing else).
not true. I have seen many slide and had some slide on me when towing
As a truck driver, when you're loaded you're ok as long as you take it easy. When you're empty is when it's scary.
@@MillionFoul i work at CYUL and CYMX for over 20 years ... ive seen many plane slide off the taxi way ... usually it is because they are going way to fast ! i even seen air algerie do a full 360 ! but like you said if the pilot as common sence he will take it easy ! what kind of broom truck and plows where you using over there ? here it is mostly oshkosh and larue
@@marcvachesus9071 My airport uses four Overassen brooms/plows and a variety of other equipment to plow the ramps. During the storm we had yesterday and today, they run back and forth down the runway non-stop from 0530 to 2130. And then of course, we have the classic line guy with a shovel, the ultimate snow-removal equipment!
haha 'animations not to scale.' duh. =) love this channel.
What's an EDCT, and who put it it into effect? And why was it only for Southwest flights?
I know this is old but EDCT is Estimated Departure Clearance Time, basically it means that due to some Traffic Management Initiative (TMI) they are holding aircraft bound for the destination on the ground for a time. Usually because there are delays at the destination airport and too many aircraft are building up in the holding pattern. Better to hold them on the ground than have aircraft circling around burning fuel because there are no free landing slots at the destination for them at their expected arrival time.
BWI is often very poorly prepared for weather that is predicted a week ahead of time. One of the issues that I've seen drive get-there-itis with WN flights is flight crew duty cycle limits, especially with de-icing and cascading delays. The flight crew may exceed their duty cycle if the flight is already airborne, but once they exceed it on the ground, they have to return to the gate and get a new crew; and if there's no available crew (this happens often with wx) then they have to cancel the flight.
Ground controller is getting pissed. Lol
I was in Chicago in that storm
At 9:30 it is more like "Are the pilots on this frequency or on alternate ground?"
What would the likely punishment for the pilot? Is it something that’s going to haunt him permanently?
thats my home airport!
Is that a brand new 737? Looks like it by the wing tips
One year old.
lol why were you listening to signatures fbo radio?
How did they get him out? Did the tug push the aircraft from the grass? I don‘t think a tug would have very much torque on the grass.. also i think it might get stuck aswel
I think they pulled it back instead of pushing.
VASAviation - I‘m just wondering how.. because a proper tug wouldn‘t fit under a 737 and i’d imagine a small tug wouldn‘t have the torque to pull a fully loaded 737 out of the grass
I've had to unstuck an A320 from the snow after it overran the runway at KJAC. In that situation, we had a single airline tug, a lot of chains, tow straps, and four tractors. Then we had shovels and every ramp agent and lineman on the airport pushing. Had to have one guy leaning out the door to tell them to hit the brakes once we got them unstuck, and then the tug pulled them to the gate.
If our Lektros had been rated for it, we would have used one, because they'll fit under the plane, and they have way more than enough torque. Our newest is rated for a 737 BBJ, and can probably do a 75 if we were feeling crazy.
yes with straps
yeah... its icy as hell here
Noob here coming thru
whats an overnight area?
off gate parking
i swear BWI need another runway.
I think he need new winter tires this 738 :p
What’s CONLE?
Maryland weather for you. I'm not entirely sure it was actually SWA906's fault here.
it's their fault since the plane's nose went off the runway instead of a full departure
SW pilot didn't want to own up on air.
It was REALLY icy here yesterday morning (Baltimore), schools closed in the area and there was a number of accidents. Not surprised there was an incident at BWI
Edit: I find the lack of a Bawlmer accent disturbing.
Rick K. ha, the controller is from new jersey i think
It's possible they were in a rush, but they also could have gotten deicing fluid on the brakes or wheels which would have caused decreased braking performance.
skid marks from both mains...
7:34 A civilian aviation person can probably answer this...When I was in the USAF we were instructed to never request "clearance" to cross a runway with a vehicle to avoid confusion with an aircraft getting clearance. We were to ask "permission" to cross. Is it not that way in the civil sector? Or maybe that rule is just old?
Sonet ,
The rule still applies here in the USofA DoD.
Ahh, poor Ronnie. Lol
Goodness, what a mess they had there.
Is it me or does the image of the weather at 2:57 look like a dolphin?
Jason Crespin it does
I find it odd that so many assume pilot error (taxiing too fast). The engines at idle can push the aircraft on ice with the brakes locked/set. In 1989 we had a major ice storm. Our 4 wheel drive pushback couldn't even push the aircraft off of the gate with the engines idling. He had to shut down, then we had to push him back and he restarted on the tarmac. Here is some good examples of aircraft on ice........ th-cam.com/video/JmAG-IU0Et0/w-d-xo.html
I can't really see the engines but unless they retrofitted the B738s with those winglets wouldn't that make it a 737 MAX and not a 738? I don't know the ICAO code for the maxes. But I know it can't be B738.
That's a 738. Many -8s that SW uses have the scimitar wingtips added on.
Mac289 that's neat. Thanks for the info.
N8523W is a Boeing B737-8H4, not a max. It is one year old.
Yeah! I knew it!!! Southwest pilots taxi really fast like takeoff!
No anymore boo.
EDCT??
Expected Departure Clearance Time
That was really extrange
Cheifly ice and traffic concerns on route. ATC sites can only handle so much planes at any given location
Ronnie in the bucket
What caused the plane to slide? Pilot error?
Probably ice.
getting upset at a simple question? saying "ascertain" in a youtube comment? really? god you sound like a pretentious dork
skid marks from both mains...
I was told it was possibly too much power added on the turn.
Rubbish, from experience, an empty B738 with low fuel is light. The CFM 26K engines on the ground provides about 25% power, and B.E.W. is about 42 tonnes. if you taxi onto ice, same as a car or another metaphor could be downhill skis, no matter which way you turn your front wheels or skis on ice, without friction, you're going one direction....forward. The norm is that people usually slow down to a safe speed on black, white or rime ice to use their controls. too fast, then Ronnie is always in the bucket.
and folks wonder why Aircraft Controllers drink! LOL
Why can't aircraft have a reverse gear? :-)
Jez
They have reverse thrust but it's not meant to move a stopped aircraft.
It has fallen somewhat out of fashion to back out under engine power. Except for the military, they love that shit.
Airlines don't like paying for damage to the terminals during powerback ops
They do have thrust reversers but on modern planes with large jet engines close to the ground using them to back up carries a high risk of foreign object damage. On turboprops and planes with tail-mounted jets FOD is less of an issue and they do sometimes "powerback".
Is this Kennedy Steve at 9:18 ?
Unfortunately Kennedy Steve is retired now. I wish it was him.
Yes - i know that. But it's good to hear there a some other funny guys on ATC.
Kennedy Steve worked at JFK. Not Baltimore
drmayeda1 I know that. I tried to be funny.
Well thats embarassing
52 gallons of glycol and a few million dollar plane
It almost got off the runway
Taxiway. He didn't enter the runway.
Putz around the airport for an hour, finally you're all cleared to go and, 10 meters from the runway... oops. That would be so frustrating.
Looks like the problem was bad piloting skills...
I'm pretty sure it's a b737 not a 738
And I'm pretty sure it a B738, if you know what that is.
A 738 is a B737. It’s the -800 model
Embarrassing