The TRUTH about the Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0. Its one and only PROBLEM revealed!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2020
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If you enjoyed this one, also check out my comparison between the Cayman GTS4.0 and my BMW M2 Competition: th-cam.com/video/s1VGQ1o4c0g/w-d-xo.html
Hi If price is the same : GT4 or GTS 4.0 or M2 CS which one you will choose?
@@mateuszkuciak7519 the GT4, or better still the Spyder, since it's now basically a GT4 without a roof
@@TunedIntoCars :) Thank you for your answer. But If you need it as a "semi" daily car and few times a year for a track day - GT4 is rather better than Spyder? Do you think that lack of roof is event better and ok for each purpose?
@@mateuszkuciak7519 I think the Spyder is perfect if you only plan to track it once in a while. The GT4 I think will be a better track car
I really liked this guy, my first view of his! IMO, the best true NA Porsche you can buy...clean, simple and just about perfect for less than $100k. I am so happy Porsche listened to their base and brought back a 6 to the mix...now a choice.
I guess you haven’t checked out its configurator. 2 options will put it within $2k of $100k: PDK and LWB.
@@Love2Cruise There is not one option that this car needs. Who wants an automatic on a sports car?
Great video....thanks for sharing. I love everything about this car. Manual transmission, NA 6 cylinder. Simple and clean displays. Old school indeed.
As we have speed limit 120 km/hr we need only two gears 1 and 2 for the pleasure....ha ha ha
Beautiful Sweden, great car..... spot on review. What to ask more !
Well done. Your comments deal with all the pros and cons concisely and seamlessly.
This car should be perfect except for its 2 speed manual transmission
It can be configured with a pdk
@@madsjensen4410 it can??!
@@armankiarmankii Yes
@@madsjensen4410 gearing is still long for a road car
@@kevinkeelan354 True true - But I've heard through some reviews that it should be much better with a PDK
Such a good review. You explained the point about the gearing really well.
Great Review Man! Keep it up
Cinematics are absolutely beautiful in this video
It looks amazing! Definitely a future car
The car was basically made to be stuck in second gear. They said way back when they made the GT4 that the gearing was long on purpose so you don't have to shift mid corner thus gaining on lap times. But then I didn't track one yet so...
It’s better for the car, you can always get the pdk or change the gearing, if it’s that big of a deal.
Loved your review! A maybe achievable dream car right there, I hope the ratios are fixed till I can afford one :D
Very great Video. Thanks a lot. I also have a M2 competition , a Focus RS and a 911 G50 from 86. My idea was to sell the M2 because of the natural apirated engine of the GTS and buy a Cayman GTS despite the higher price of the GTS but the gear ratio is for me a real problem and I take the decision to keep the M2. Your video confirm my feeling.
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Have you tried the PDK version yet? I think you still break the speed limits in second lol... nice vid
Probably, but I haven't tested it yet 😁
Great review. Agree with everything you stated except the gearing isnt a big deal. You just gotta drive fast and use first gear
In countries where speed limits are inforced, the ideal situation is being able to have a lot of fun at low speeds. Not everybody lives in Germany. Plus, a high revving engine with relatively low torque is best accompanied (and more fun) with short gearing and close ratios. There is no logical way porsche can explain enthusiasts why it’s non tuebo manual cars are geared like supercars with >600lbft or torque.
In london i doubt it
This is the Porsche I would own!
Very nice review! You nailed all the important points. I'd love to see your other reviews. I just placed an order for a Cayman 718 GTS 4.0 with a manual and LWB seats. The PDK was tempting but I wanted the engagement of the manual. May do the gearbox upgrade at some point.... Sharkwerks charges about $9100 from what it looks like
Manual is the way to go. I think you won't notice the gear ratios too much if you plan to take it often to a track :)
I just ordered one too! In manual. Are we excited or what??
Tuned Into Cars! haha. I guess my only option is to do some track time. The wife will understand. Lol!
Hamlet Wong Super stoked!!! Delivery date is 12/25/2020. Sounds like Santa’s comin’ in HOT!!! When’s your deliver date?
@Nima Aflatooni in the real world the ratios aren’t an issue and the car is a hoot to drive. Competition track use and you may want to do something? but for that you’d buy a GT4.
Note also that the Sharkwerks upgrades are only for gears 3,4 & 5 and doesn’t do anything for 1&2. As it is out of the box the car is just brilliant. Gr8 purchase.
Thanks for confirming you really must get the PDK. Which is disappointing.
I'm with you on the Cayman 4.0. This is the only thing on sale right now that I would consider trading up to from my M2. Used to have a 987 Cayman S which I loved, but the ratios were bad on that to. As another poster said, Sharkwerkes have been fixing the ratio issue for years with a new gear set.
There's a video coming soon where I compare this one with the M2 Competition and it's closer than people might think ;)
Tuned Into Cars! When will you Upload this ?
@@akfrets3770 it's coming this Sunday. September 27
The tall gearing on my base 981 manual was the only negative about the car.. now have a 718S pdk
Nice video! I wonder how the gearing will be with the PDK.
Next spring you can test drive at your Porsche Centre.
@@stigpalm1922 Next Spring? I thought early December we're supposed to see the GTS 4.0 start showing up at dealers (with PDK, too).
@@LouieDoesaThing Next spring in Sweden I've been informed by the Porsche Dealer
@@stigpalm1922 Oh, ok, I'm in the States so maybe the timetable is a bit different.
@@LouieDoesaThing I forgot to say, the PDK version
Porsche 911 and 718 model line boss Frank-Steffen Walliser says that because second gear is on the transmission mainshaft, changing the ratio would be too expensive given the relatively small sales volume.
I should be dreaming of this instead of the gt4...
Great car, but for the street you won’t be above 5k a lot with out breaking some laws. That’s why I got a base 981 for less than half. Same experience but you can wind it out for longer, still breaking laws but not as bad. Can’t beat the 2.7 sound.
Hard to beat the 981, but for someone who wants a new car, this 4l 718 is an excellent choice
You can get an aftermarket replacement final drive which shortens the gearing and fixes this car's one "fault" when opting for a manual. Frankly if you can afford to go buy a new Cayman GTS (or Boxster) a few thousand for this remedial work should not be a big deal - will cost the same as speccing the PDK but keep the driver involvement and save 20kg in weight.
Thank you!
07:54 I kept wondering what beautiful country I was in, and then I saw this - "Stockholm" on the plate. So, beautiful country is Sweden. This Porsche nice too.
That's not it's only problem...the new car now has Fuel Particulate Filters which kill the sound of the new 6 Cylinder engine, so no pops or crackles like the wonderful 981 version.
Well, that's a problem with the entire car industry at the moment...
Crackles are unnecessary, but the muffled tone is just sad.
An exhaust will do you good,bruv :D
Particulate filter is for euro market only. US version will not have it, thank goodness! This was confirmed by PCNA.
@@cayenne955 If that is true, then that's great news for US buyers. 👍🏻
Addition of the short shifter from the gt4 would make this perfect!
The GT4 unfortunately has the same issue
I had a similar gear ratio on my Mustang GT(450HP). I really didn’t like that. Even with 450hp it felt much slower than my lotus Elise 220.
Not watched the video yet, but my guess is the problem is the long gears ^^
I didn't drive GTS 4.0 yet, but I suspect its long 2nd-gear may not really be a problem.
You can always short-shift, and as a result use 3 or 4 gears, even in city driving. I do it all the time in my turbo Bimmer.
Sure, the car will be a little sluggish because it lacks flat torque curve of a turbo, but to rectify this you can downshift in a lightning-quick fashion, courtesy of automatic rev-matching.
In fact I believe that auto rev-matching is more useful in this car than in turbo ones, because it complements its high-revying, linear-torque, engine better.
Well then why not get the S instead? I mean, if you short shift all the time, then paying the extra premium for a high revving engine is pretty pointless, if you ask me.
@@TunedIntoCars Because you get extra 44hp with GTS 4.0, and there are situations where you can rev-it-up all the way like highway merging or passing, or even aggressive city driving in 1st gear (BTW I rarely use 1st gear in my turbo Bimmer, but I used it in my previous one which was naturally aspirated).
I also believe that GTS 4.0 is a bargain because when equally configured to Cayman S, you're only paying less than 3000 Canadian dollars more. Considering Porsche pricing that's nothing.
Yes, you do. But those 45hp doesn't really give you more performance, compared to the S.
For me personally, the whole point of this fantastic engine is to rev it out and hear it scream close to the 8000rpm redline. That's where it's at its best.
But again, that's just me. That's what I felt after driving this and the new Spyder.
Liked the review. I find it interesting how everyone was bashing the turbo 4's for their sound, but now everyone is complaining about the gear ratios on the flat 6. Fixed one problem and caused another. And like others are saying, it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the 981. Porsche could have fixed the gearing problem but simply chose not to. Their answer is PDK, which is truly a great transmission, but much less engaging in my opinion.
But isn't the gearbox an old problem? I know people complained about this for the Cayman, since forever
@@TunedIntoCars Much less of a problem when you have the low-end torque of the F4 turbo.
2.5 gts is the future always has been rev the arse off the 4.0
The 728 4T is better in every way than the slow and laborious 981. It’s a second quicker to 60 ffs.
do the pdk have different gear ratios?
How about comparing 718 gts 4t vs gt 4.0 ?
Better check the rev report on that car
someone needs to jump on that aftermarket rear end stat
G8 car these. Ended up going with a 4cyl turbo version thou, just asking too much here in Australia for the 4.0 (250k 😱) l paid 100k less for a turbo gts, identical interior & exterior. Stage 2 Tune has it pulling harder & faster then a current gt3 over the quarter & l still have 90k in the bank! Just incomparable value wise. Properly piped the car sounds excellent and rautious. Not a 6 or an 8 but not bad at all. Oh, & no gearing problems. Go figure.
if it's not one thing it's another. first the noise, now the gearing lol!
Cool video. The long 2nd gear may be for better emissions but surely for better 0-100km/h acceleration (by avoiding a shift to 2nd) because 4.5s is not that impressive.
Really? I think 4.5s from a NA engine is pretty good. A manual M2 Competition (twin-turbo engine) is just 0.1s slower to 100km/h
@@TunedIntoCars you have a valid point about Turbo vs N/A, but GTS is also about 100kg lighter. Anyway, with PDK it does 4s, which is impressive (M2C is 4.2s).
The engine doesn't have a lot of low end torque so i suppose shorter gears will make for more thrust and the car will pull better gaining speed faster. The question is:how short must the gears be, to make the car accelerate fast enough that the time you loose shifting is shorter than the gain
The GT4 with PDK will go 0-60 in 3.7 secs and have 10lb more torque because of the PDK and shorter 2nd gear according to Porsche.
@@souheib93430-60 is overrated most driving fun happen between 40-140 shorter gearing is definitely better for that range
Those long gears might be the only complaint, but it's a big one......Kills the thrill for public roads
I agree, it's quite a big one. But unfortunately, if you really want a 6 cylinder Cayman, it's a problem you have to live with, unless you wanna spend some more cash to fix it.
Is there a after market company that can fix this gearbox issue?
I wonder about this too
Sharkwerks
@@howardgrubbs6216 RPM Technik in the UK offer a shorter final drive. Sharkwerks is gears 3-6 only.
To me the gears are perfect, to each his own
@@olasek7972 'perfect' for what?
Solid.
so then... does it make more sense for once to actually just pick the auto with paddles??
I would go for the PDK, if you ask me...
I'd love to choose this in a manual but having not driven one in about 10 years with my TT I'm wondering if I forgot how. Anyone actually forget how?
It's like riding a bicycle, using a manual transmission should immediately come back to you without even thinking about it.
@@69FOSTER I sure hope so :) I can't imagine driving this car any other way!
Interesting perspective, which it seems everyone has but IMO this gearing problem is total and complete nonsense. Having fun through the gears 2-3-4 is absolutely possible at legal speeds and you get to enjoy the range of revs. Maxxing it out all the time in something this powerful should be for the track really. BTW, a Ferrari F40 does about 100mph in second, hasn't done much to damage it's reputation
better than a bmw e36 m3 csl with manual conversion?
Most likely, yes. But not as special
P.s. don't you mean E46?
The 2023 might be the most special though.
So PDK seems like the way to go?
I would rather buy the manual and go for the sharkwerks upgrade people were mentioning in the comments. Porsche manuals are absolutely sensational
Only if you’re lazy or don’t have the skill or confidence to drive a stick. My ego doesn’t need a couple milliseconds faster shifting like corvette drivers. An automatic in a sports car is sacrilege.
@@nomansland4811 OK I don't think any of these are objective arguments but thank you for your input. I think the real answer is manuals are at their limit for performance and most people don't want them anyway.
save the pdk for the 4doors! enjoy the manuals before 2030 then u won't have anymore choices.
@@JK12518 you really cannot use the argument that manuals have reached their limit when considering the Porsche manual transmission on the Cayman. There are several sports/performance cars that have similar or way more power and torque than the 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 and yet they have great manual transmissions with proper gear ratios and are a joy to use in any driving conditions. Examples of these are any of the manual Lotus cars, BMW M2 Competition, Camaro SS 1le with its Tremec 6 speed manual trans, etc
DCT for me minus the alcantara. Hate that crap.
Maybe the 2021 models will address this gear ratio problem.
only in case they replace the gearbox, which will not happen.
Why so many people like the low pitch sound from flat 6? I prefer cayman S 2.5 liter. It is not that much slower, 20k+ difference in the price, and has a faster acceleration because of the turbo, and just me, I prefer the turbo high pitch sound when it kicks in. I regretted to switch from S manual to Gts4.0 manual to be honest.
I'm curious why you switched if you don't enjoy the engine? Couldn't you get an extended test drive for your dealer?
I for one love all 718s. My favorite is, surprise, surprise, the T version. Such a lovely car to drive!
@@TunedIntoCars I switched because it is a more powerful car and it looks very good from the interior compared to my cayman S. But I really just don't think 20k+ for an engine update that is not THAT much faster than my previous cayman S. However, of course GTS is a fantastic car, just in my case, 20k+ for this upgrade I don't think it is worth it since I am not a fan of a low pitch engine sound. Haha. I don't think there is a testing drive period here tho.
Bet some third party company will soon be offering a kit to change the ratios or the final drive. Other than that it looks fantastic..
Hope so, that’s all it needs
Sharkwerks already does it.
samuel santiago ramirez Looks like a killer setup. Not cheap, but I guess that’s not shocking whatsoever.
Merrittorious sharkwerks only changes ratios 3,4 &5 so the ‘so called’ problem gears 1&2 are unchanged. Honestly in the real world the ratios aren’t an issue. Gr8 car as it is.
@@gjonno actually there is an outfit (Deman Motorsports) that will change gears 2,3,4, and 5. And even offers an optional longer sixth. (demanmotorsport.com/4-5l-gt4-gears/)
You think the PDK is going to be neutered in some way? (to protect the 911?)
You can't really compare. The 911 has the 8 speed PDK while the Cayman will get the 7 speed. I've driven a Cayman S with the PDK and it didn't really have any gear ratio issues.
From the very start Porsche has been protecting the 911 from the Cayman. The Cayman has greater performance potential with its rwd, mid engine layout but they will always just give it less than 100 percent focus and commitment.
Wait a second. If you're driving on a track or roads with many curves and therefore slower speeds as you say, why don't you use first gear? First gear goes very quickly up to 75-80km/h, and after red line, second gear starts at 5200rpm, the sweet point for this engine.
I mean, you can also accelerate from, let's say 40km/h to 250km/h in fifth gear, but you're not supposed to start accelerating from fifth gear...
Cheers
So how do you downshift from 2nd to 1st? The car doesn't let you do that at higher speeds
@@TunedIntoCars Of course you're not going to clutch and downshift from 2nd to 1st at 80-90km/h (this is 5000-5500rpm in 2nd!), but trying to accelerate at 30-50km/h in 2nd (1800-3000rpm) doesn't make any sense.
If the car was automatic and you went 100% on throttle, it would downshift to 1st at those slow speeds.
@@yf-zp5zf I'm not sure what you point is so I'll explain mine again. It's not about accelerating from lower down in the rev range. It's about how long the ratios are. And as I've shown in the video you can reach about 125km/h in 2nd gear. And that means that you can't really change gear too many times on a 'normal' road. That's the whole point of buying a manual car, right? Changing gears. And because this is a NA engine you need to rev it out to extract the power. So you're basically stuck in 2nd gear, most of the time
@@TunedIntoCars So true. My manual transmission BRZ was slow AF but the most fun car to drive that I've owned because I was able to shift gears often.
For the low price difference between This one and GT4 i would pay the extra money for the GT4...
I don't know where you live but here, in sweden, the price difference is not that low. It's almost 20.000€
Tuned Into Cars! You right it s about 20.000€ difference but for a such an expensive car I bet GT4 and Spyders will keep more value than GTS 4.0. Just my 2cents ;-) but if no choice i would go for GTS 4.0...
@@sayruscs i would go for the Spyder 😁
Tuned Into Cars! Both great cars 👍😀
Has Porsche confirmed the next Cayman will be electric? Will it be the whole range, no GT4?
They've only confirmed that about the Macan, but a lot of journalists that have sources inside Porsche said that it will happen. Hopefully the GT4 will stay but I guess it depends on how well it will sell
There is an electric Cayman in the works?
The rumours suggest the next generation is going electric. To 'protect' the 911 fr the emission regulations
@@TunedIntoCars I will probably be a hybrid, not all electric.
@@TheKoolaidekidd I highly doubt it. First because it's going to be very expensive as a hybrid and second, because a hybrid is not going to do enough to lower emissions for the company as a whole
They just can’t let the Cayman ever be as good as it should be because it’d eclipse the similar spec 911, so they give it useless gearing. Of course owners can partially fix it by paying a ton to regear.
Or just get the PDK.
$100k!.... it should be good for that price.
Yea, on the normal road you just drive this car in the second gear. Pretty much useless to have a manual transmission when you only use it as a daily driver - that's why I'd choose the PDK. But it is nice on the track if you like manuals :)
If you price one out - you might as well get the GT4.
the only problem with it is that i can't afford one.
💥
4.5 seconds a macan turbo withought crono does that.
Well yes. But that one has 4wd, a twin-turbo engine and a PDK transmission. Of course it's quick
Sorry but I love my 4 cylinder turbo engine more than 6 cylinder! Long gears and lack of torque is no go for me!
As you should. I've always told people there are no bad cars anymore, so when buying a car, you should go for the one you like the most. I've driven every variant of the 718 Porsche's and my favorite is the GT4RS, hands down. But a close second is the T variant of the 718. Amazing car!
That dolly zoom at 1:03 was just perfect.
Lizard Green and red calipers?
Crickey
Python green
What a waste, the four cylinder GTS was PERFECT and everyone complained and what did we get? This! Good thing we have the S still, I guess...not that you an get any Porsches right now.
Only an issue if you stick to the speed limits
So a real issue then
@@TunedIntoCars Not really; residential areas 1&2 gears, otherwise party time!
Oh boy... You have to be going 120km/h+ to get to 3rd and beyond 150 to get to 4th. Just go on a track...
@@TunedIntoCars Nah, must be faster that that surely; 120kph is about 75mph in real money.
The C8 is a better value.
Answer... PDK
Different gearbox, same problem with the gearing
The long gears are why I wouldn't buy this car. It would make it boring to drive. I'll keep my C7 Z51 7 spd.
Terog sa faci review-ul pe română
Doar in engleză l-am filmat. Și din păcate nu cred că o să mai filmez conținut în română
Well done.. it is pleasant to hear at your comments. And very smart from you to see you’ve perfectly understood this car. Wich is, from my point of view, not a must have. Gts usually are good product to get more sport but still In a daily. But here This cayman lacks of character and, yes, the gear ratios are a real subject of concern to expect an “each instant joy” as for other products from Porsche. And God... what a ugly green !!!
Therefore according to you all Porsche are rubbish as all have a problem with gear ratio
@paul... mine is a 2015 gt3 and does not suffer any gr pb... before it I had a 991 gts 420 : no more gr pb... gear ratios must be appreciated through the use of your car. A gts is a car made first for road use. It’s gear ratios are absolutely perfect for it (on 991 gts as on 997 gts, the only ones I can talk about).
A gt3 is first made for track days but must be easily used on road (if not, it is not a gt3!!!). Mine is absolutely perfect at spa, at ledenon (yes, also when you launch at the bottom of the finish strait line...), or at Le Vigeant for example. Which is really a performance (I would want more accuracy for a racing car of course but considering my gt3 still is a daily car with track capabilities, it is simply amazing).
Well, I thought I could talk about gr as long as, for my 1981 formula 3 that I race inside the f3 classic french trophy, I am used to select my gr for each race so... seven times a year, probably I am wrong ?...as all of my friends ? I will talk to them !
But I’m sure you can explain your post by an outstanding knowledge of all Porsche models ? (Knowledge I do not have).
too expensive road tax for the 4.0 engine in many countries !
and many want PDK
OMG all these amatures talking shit avout the gearing ratio... it's complete bullshit!!! I had this car since early March. One of the first in Europe to be delivered. Just before the cerveza sickness shut down the Stuttgart factory. I've been driving it almost daily now and put on admirable 10,000 km. The most fun you can have with this car is on dodgy country oads full of dirt and potholes keeping the revs between 3,000 and 5,000 - you're shifting all the times and it's the most fun you can have with your pants on. If you go above 5,000 rpms, the engine produces way too much torque and on dodgy country roads will be losing traction. If you get to better tarmac then you keep the rev's between 5,000 and 7,000 (the torque curve really starts plummeting after 7,000 so no reason to rev any higher), and shift every couple seconds again. I've driven this car all around Switzeralnd, Italy, Bavaria, Bohemia, Austria and Croatia's B-roads. The long gearing is only a problem if you're a woke person who enjoys staying bellow the speed limit on dodgy country roads... if that's the kind of person you are then buy MX-5 instead.
Why so salty? You just bought a Cayman GTS. Go out and enjoy it
@@TunedIntoCars cos of your long gearing :-*
@@TunedIntoCars If you really wanted to nitpick on what is pretty much the best sports car ever made you could have shown some original thought and complained about the aweful stock exhaust, or the absolutelly ridiculous VW handbreak... instead all you can do is regurgitate the same line every other clueless youtuber uses "oohhh nooo the gears are too long and I can't enjoy the gear shits on public roads buuu huuu"
@@fatfacades6361 you definitely don't have a GTS. I've never seen such an unhappy Porsche owner.
Can u prove that fanatics screamed for it? Or just a lie
If you listen carefully, you can hear them for yourself
I was ready to purchase the TTRS 2021 but Audi doesn't offer manual. That was the dealbreaker. So yeah, manual fans are out there.
Hamlet Wong make a vid of yourself screaming
Rev the arse of it screaming engine thrashing it power doesn’t kick in till 4000 turbo is the future this engine was released due to emissions the gearing is ridiculous turbo all the way
buy the PDK and problem solved
Porsches have their place for sure but they are small cars (Cayman), without much room and so are not everyday cars. This particular model has a very large engine (4 liters), and is pretty quick because of that. I drive a BMW M2 (3 liter) and is also quick and much more practical. Different strokes for different folks.
If you don't need the 4 seats, I'd say the Cayman can easily be your everyday car.
There are plenty of people who drive a Cayman as a DD
You need the extra room only if you're large. The Cayman is perfectly roomy, try a Lotus for confirmation.
This is stupid. The Cayman has always had tall gearing. Learn to drive.
Thanks for the tip
Man, the way you speak, why not do it in your native language ??! Very schratchy, I just have to look into another review.
Why do you feel you needed to announce that? Plenty of other reviews out there, so feel free to enjoy them
Why put up such a douchebag comment? Just go watch another review. No ones asking for your views. Karen!
his english is very good - and he obviously speaks at least 2 languages well.
The interior ergonomics of this car is a mess. He looks all squished and cramped. His right leg is hitting the center console 5:47 , and his left leg is against the door pocket and steering wheel. For the asking price, it should be more comfortable. Even a Mini Cooper has a more comfortable interior than this.
Don't judge ergonomics and comfort by watching a TH-cam video. Go see for yourself. The interior is quite comfortable. I really had no issues. I could drive this car all day without any issues
@@TunedIntoCars I had a 2006 911 and it was awful. I can't image this car being any better. I expect a bit more comfort what what I am paying for.