Irondrakes & Ironbreakers! Dwarfs vs Tomb Kings - Total War Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2022
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#Warhammer #totalwar #Turin - เกม
Dwarf victories are the only thing that provide me with solace these days
Here here!
In strange times, there will be solace in confidence. Confidence seems to been have taken from the people, if they label basic math as a conspiracy theory.
Josey Wales profile pic very nice
Rock and stome
based and dwarf pilled
Arkhan getting bathed in fire was so righteous.
Absolutely beautiful
Another grudge struck from the book
Irondrakes spitting fire, never gets old, one of the best feelings you can get when the roasting starts.
Agreed, they are such a cool unit!
Longbeards are ITP while ironbreakers aren't because that's how it was in the Tabletop game.
Longbeards are ancient; they've been around the mountains, seen everything, done everything, killed at least one of everything. Nothing phases them at all.
They'll face down a charging giant and grumble about "How why in MY days, the Giants were at least TWICE as big as this sorry specimen, won't ya' know it?! AND they had more teeth!"
Ironbreakers might be elite, but they don't have the breadth and width and more importantly, the age and experience that Longbeards have. They can still be rattled by scary things, hardbitten as they may be.
Longbeards aren't necessarily always Longbeards. Old warriors just tend to be classed as them.
I remember some white dwarf article which said that when Dwarf elites near the end of their ancient lifespans, they don't have the necessary stamina to go out onto front lines anymore, but nothing can truly kill their fighting spirit, so they become in effect 'Longbeards' who go out to battle every so often- as they're the group most keenly interested in satisfying grudges apart from Slayers.
I generally like how things are done, but I do think its confusing that the ultimate holding unit doesn't have ITP, but the mid level unit does. It's different from Slayers, who are unbreakable, but vulnerable to damage. That's to let them fight to the last man.
Ironbreakers should hold to the last man, but they can run from monsters and such, while the rando mid range unit won't. And if that's the way it was in the TT, then I would have an issue with it there too. If the longbeards are so good, then why aren't they used as Ironbreakers?
@@shorewall Because they're old, grumbling men. Not young/middle aged frontline fighters in the prime of their long lives. They don't have the stamina to run around in the tunnels all day and their experience is too valuable to put them in toughest spots, which is where the Ironbreakers, with their armour would be.
Longbeards are not professional warriors anymore; they're old curmudgeony bastards who show up to a fight to stand behind the main lines, smoking their pipes and grumble with each other (and anyone else that has the misfortune of being within earshot) about how the Orcs are too small, the Goblins aren't numerous enough, and everything in general was both tougher and better back in their days.
Sure, they're still tough as old boots if they need to get stuck in, but that's not why they're there: they're like those old men that always gather around public works to complain about how the quality of work is so shoddy nowadays.
That's who Longbeards are.
They're umarells, if you speak italian.
Iron Breakers are tough and elite, but not necessarily grizzled veterans. being the big fish against the Skagen horrors in the tunnels doesn't prepare you for the multitude of other flavors of abomination on the surface.
Typically in the TT a unit only had ITP for special reasons. Longbeards cuz they're old and grizzled veterans who are tired of the greenskins/skavens shit and have seen everything that could be thrown against them a dozen times over. Mark of Slaanesh units get it because the gift of Slaanesh isn't just increased speed and agility, it's also more a mental twisting of perception. Slaaneshi worshippers seek extremes in all emotions, including fear and terror, so not only does it not effect them the way it would a normal mind, they relish the sensation. In both of these examples, ITP has nothing to do with how elite/strong a unit is, and more about the unit's mindset.
The actual measure of a unit's discipline and bravery is their leadership statistic, not ITP. Fear is meant to represent something unnerving, creepy, or intimidating. It represents the slow drain on morale that would come from fighting your zombified loved ones, or the mental trauma of fighting something unatural like a daemon. You're forced to keep swinging your sword at these creatures that...shouldn't be. You're a warrior fighting in a war, so its not enough to make to shit your pants and flee in terror, but it pushes you one step closer to cracking under the pressure and running anyway. Fear is slow and insidious.
Terror more represents a supernatural horror that pierces your mind like the scream of a banshee and causes you to start running before you know what you're doing, or something so monstrous and powerful and loud that even the bravest warriors with super high leadership can be startled or shocked into a momentary panic when that dragon/greater daemon/steam tank crashes into your ranks from behind when you were already fighting for your life against something in front of you, which is why terror is a short-lived effect. It's more likely to take effect if your leadership was already suffering from your unit losing so many men, or from being surrounded or charged in the flank or from magic sapping your courage. Eventually you and your mates come to your senses, pull up your soiled britches, and return to the fighting.
TL:DR
Elite Unit = Higher Leadership
ITP = Special Circumstance or Supernatural Ability that allows unit to nullify fear & terror
ITP is not a measure of a unit's eliteness or power.
SATISFY THE GRUDGE!
What you gonna do? Sit in your hold?
@@sapiensiski
Watch the video. See what we'll do.
THEY HAVE WRONGED US!
@@gangstalker47 all I saw was a lot of sitting still lmao
@@sapiensiski
And who won? Crazy.
Literally my favorite thumbnail you've ever made. That Eddie Hall 500KG deadlift is a historic event for mankind.
Let's go DAWI! I got TW WH 1 this year thanks to twitch prime and the dwarves are the first race that made me get into a 100 rounds campaign. I still suck at battles but the dawi are just fun
This month with prime you get twwh2
I'm the opposite. I can't stand playing as dwarves. I've played literally thousands of hours between all titles and never got past turn 50 on a dawi campaign before loading up a different faction.
I'm around 2k hours between the 3 games and never even tried a dwarf play. May be time to open the book finally.
@@nickcarl6774 so you have to subscribe for october to get twwh2? Is it yours to keep afterwards? I am not familiar with how prime works.
@@supak15 yes you do keep it afterwards if you use the 1 month free trial
Would love to see a DLC that bring a dwarf engineer lord of some type. The double master engineer HQ tech is cool, but it would be great if they just had a lord option to fill that niche. Also wild to see that dwarves aren't even using artillery in high end games.
Yeah the guildmaster engineer lord, the demon slayer lord, and the dragon slayer hero are all missing. Grimm could bring the engineer pack.
TBH not that surprising that there's no arty floating about. They don't have a Sunbreaker equivalent and they're too slow to peel for the arty that they do have. It's kindof depressing to see that the Empire has better arty choices with Sunbreaker and the Hammer of the Witches then the Dawi.
@@leadpaintchips9461 Well, organ cannons can be useful to bait ai to attack
An arms race themed dlc Dawi
V Umgi.
@@user-fu2tx9hp4r Was specifically talking about the PvP side, which is what the comment is about. Dwarven arty is fantastic in campaign since the AI is dumb and campaign boosts are a thing, but the risk/reward for PvP isn't enough to bring them there.
its insane that they havent fixed how artillery and units like the chosen of the gods always focus the edges of units instead of the middle. do you consider that a problem?
YES. Dwarf MP, lets GOOOOOOO
PUMP THOSE DWARVEN LEGSSSS 👏👏
Edit: God damn that TK player got DUMPED on
*12:44* That dmg on Arkhan, they went full Vietnam on his ass.
Amazing moment! 🔥
domination was an extremely good addition to multiplayer for the third game. It really makes it feel like we have a way to play the fantasy tabletop but online. Very cost effective as well vs the physical game.
Damn that single line of Longbeards holding back the undead tide at 7:20. Love to see my Dawi bois
10:38 lol the way turin lowers his voice
“I wish the dwarfs had an engineer lord, like Malakai…”
WISH GRANTED
Irondrakes: open fire upon the unholy Arkhan
My dopamine levels: skyrocket
New to total war warhammer and was curious to experiment with iron drakes - had wolf riders going to both my flanks and in the space of about 3 seconds their cavalry on both sides were routing - I love it (it may have helped about 10 seconds earlier I'd managed to take out the general but the damage the irondrakes dealt was insane)
The ITP picks seem to mostly come from the old TT rules, but that doesn't really make it any more sensical.
Longbeards are old warriors and have seen it all, Ironbreakers are speciality warriors and not as old/ experienced (relatively)
@@legalchef Ironbreakers guard against all the horrors that the ratmen create, I think that’d be a bit more hardening than just being old
@nickelback someone's clearly never been old
@@josephchambers2640 still working on it
@@Nickelback8469 In Dwarf lore it's not that linear. Longbeards weren't necessarily always Longbeards. For instance, when an Ironbreaker gets old and can't really go out to fight on the front lines of every important battle anymore, but are still good enough for an old punch-up, they become, in effect, Longbeards.
Okay turin the thumbnail was perfect with eddie hall xD
I love watching Dawi battles in domination.
Can someone please explain why dwarves have bronze shields just like GOBLINS? How in the world are gobbos on par with Dwarves? I wish they would give the Dawi silver shields again
I agree, one of the reasons the Dawi struggle on open maps is mobility. But if they give the Dawi more staying power domination mode will perhaps be too easy for the Dawi, hard to say. I guess you really can´t balance for both modes unless you are a genius .... which I am not. :)
@@AurioDK I always say that games should make things make sense, and let the MP balance around that.
Dawi are nerfed because people don't want to fight against dwarf boxes, but that takes away the Dawi identity. That is why they exist, that is what makes up for their lack of mobility. Balance is unfair.
Like was said, how should a gobbo compare with a dwarf?
you would have to nerf their armor or something cause silver shield dwarf warriors would be so opressive against ranged factions. you would need elite ap ranged units to deal damge to a t1 unit.
@@ScrumChum I think the only way to balance the Dawi in open maps is to give them a semi-mobile unit, something grounded. Some sort of mid speed cavalry.
@@AurioDK but they don't HAVE that, unless CA wants to give dwarves some kind of war wagon.
Year 7 on waiting for silver shielded ironbreakers.
These thumbnails are fkin dank Turin keep up the good work
love that eddie hall thumbnail lol
check out 12:50, spotlight moment.
Dawi are good. They kinda allways were.
I remember people repeatedly underestimating them. Back in WH2, they were considered to have an equal MU against VC for some reason. Now, in WH3, after VC actually got an absolutely massive blanket buff to practicly everything, that matchup appears to be actually about even-ish. Pretty sure everyone who underestimated them went into the book.
I was probably the one underestimating, since i played a lot of High Elves in warhammer2... and it was on of the easy match ups
The issue isn't necessarily dwarves being bad in general, but their slow speed hurting them in multiplayer, and in campaign their econ, growth, and replenishment issues hurt them. They do fine if they can find their footing though.
I've started playing in WH2 and my favorite faction is VC. I always considered Dwarfs to be very strong. Their basic game plan of tarpiting with durable frontline and then dealing damage with range and artillery is just solid and I can't imagine it ever being bad. Dwarfs will always be at least even in the matchup I feel.
The biggest problem was the matchup in the campaign, though. VC had no access to early effective AP damage there. All the good stuff that actually does something vs Dwarfs, like GW Great Guard, Cairn Wraiths, Vargheists etc. were gated behind high tier buildings and/or required expensive support buildings. Also note the offenders Crypt Horrors, who were an early AP unit, but were generally just shit. You avoided fighting the Dwarfs as much as you could, even though they start right next to you, also because of the climate in case of Vlad/Mannfred, which then often resulted in annoying large Dwarf empires that took ages to dismantle once you actually got some AP options.
WH3 and Immortal Empires fixed pretty much everything. Crypt Horrors are good again and other stronger AP options more accessible. Updated Raise Dead mechanics allow you to cheat and get these units even sooner. To top it all off, Vlad specifically starts with a beastly army of Blood Knights, Vargheists and a Black Coach which all do lots of AP damage for some Dwarf killing. I fought them as early as turn 7 and succeeded.
They were equal in WH2, more or less. Vamps could swarm Dawi ranged with summons and dawi didn't really have the mass to go after mortis engines effectively, and three fell bats was enough to shut down the entire dawi airforce. I'd even say it was slightly VC favoured. In current land battles it's massively VC favoured, but in dom it's a bit different since vamps can't buffstack as effectively + zombies and skellies have low cap weight now.
VC would probably crush TK though if TK skellies had the same cap weight as the VC ones have.
Iron within, iron without!
Peter Turbo and his petulant prats are no more than wazzocks!
Hopefully mostly without, while dwarfs do on occasion eat small rocks (its one of the canon ingredients of their ale), eating iron would probably give them a stomach ache
I wanted the tomb kings to win. One of my favorite factions. But it was a nice battle. Thanks for showing it!
And thanks for the advice
Irondrakes be like *Do you wanna fried skeleton?*
*KHAZUKAN KHAZAKIT HA!*
When I'm TK vs Dawi on campaign I bring Ushabti Greatbows for the speed, range and AP as well as Casket of Souls which is the firepower you need to be effective vs. Dawi armor (instead of tickling them with the Screaming Skulls Catapults). Dive into melee with mobile Lords/Hero/SE buffed with Nehekara spells as you rain Casket and Greatbow fire on them. Skelly Arrows shoot any Slayers and then you can use things like Venom Knights with good effect vs. their non-anti-large infantry and ranged.
War kitty with Settra and some chariots will solve this Dawi infestation.
Arkhan getting invited to a BBQ party by thr dwarves it seem.
Strike another grudge from the Dammaz Kron!
Remember the lead up to TW:War3 when people were whining about how Dwarves would be the weakest faction? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I wanna see someone use some flame cannons to dominate a match, even if itll never happen.
Hey you got your wish about wishing the dwarves had a engineer lord lol
(you say you wish they had one at around the 3 minute mark lol)
A Dawi replay hell yeah!
Btw dawi have legendary engineer - Grimm Burloksson.
Very surprised the TK didn't bring any chariots, as they are quite good vs dawi. Even if they are a bit micro intensive.
imo, the entire outcome of that game was based on the initial placement of those Screaming Skull catapults.
Metaslayer is my favorite Gotrek and Felix novel.
Undead units when they break should lose modles a hell of a lot faster. On the table top they can lose as much as 1/4 of their unit per turn just to crumble. Also I think Empire should get something to make up for the lack of detactments, they are quite op on table top and a really big part of what makes Empire strong. In total war they do not exist at all.
That thumbnail did my man Eddie dirty & 100% right at the same time.
Master engineering exalted to a Dawi Lord? Sounds like a breach of tradition to me..
Hmm Look like Archan the black turned the hot water tap 2 millimeters and 16 Plancks too far in his shower
Thats a crispy, well done Arkhan.
Who called cremators anonymous?
just like mummy used to make
ITP is from tabletop and Longbeards are stubborn (their leadership value does not get affected by penalties)
TURIN TURIN
THE TOMB KINGS HAVE A 69% WIN RATE
it's the sacred number
they'll never be stopped now
I want Malakai on an empire wagon as a legendary lord
They trespass on our mountains,
*and expect us to do nothing?!*
Outside of marauders and Slaanesh I think TWW is more balanced then it gets credit for. For example Lizardmen, the reason Lizardmen don't have a good win rate is because they are in my opinion the best faction a bad player should use against a good player. Because of this they will never have a good win rate even though they're balanced.
The marauder bug is just too much or points increase and Slaanesh I2P and high move values are not as relevant in tabletop so it's hard to gauge where they should be even though we all can agree they should be more
Can we get some more land battles? Pretty please :)
Dawi HYPE🎉 smash the op kings 🙏🙏
Came here and liked instantly for the Eddie Hall thumbnail lol
I've always thought that Eddie Hall has the proportions of a dwarf in real life, so it really is perfect.
Does the score tracker now show how many tics to victory? Pretty cool, no need to math and micro at the same time.
Only with that mod. But it's 1 point per second for each captured point anyway, so easy.
I feel bad because I hate feeling like I'm abusing something overpowered, but TKs have been my main since VP launch last game
i think they're actually quite reasonable with the lore passive banned. it's a fun faction that has traditionally been middle of the road.
@@eumaies Yeah in the current state of the game I can totally see how it's too much. It used to be a little trickle of healing but now with percentage based healing its a bit too much
@@emvscout4600 and giving back ammo.
No TK content for WH2 because they were extremely mid and have no stans among the content creators and now no TK content for WH3 because they're OP. Feels bad as a TK fan.
TK were on the struggle bus for all of WH2. Most of the problem right now is the fact that their lore of magic is both bugged with the infinite ammo and just straight up OP because CA broke healing
Ironbreakers aren't immune to psychology because they aren't longbeards. Their beards are not long enough for itp. Self-explanatory, really.
When I said I wanted to see more TK content this isn't exactly what I meant...
It's been a hot minute since I watched a live stream. Has the dwarfs ever won a faction tournament?
Top teir thumbnail
personally i think it makes more sense if khorne units had itp rather than slaanesh. i mean... he IS the god of war his champions and choosen should not be running from battle they should fear no man or beast and welcome death and slaughter
Strange to see the dwarf player not using more Quarrellers, I only saw 1 unit on high ground. Thoughts @Turin?
tomb kings have too much silver shields.
You're right Turin, ITP IS the most arbitrarily assigned trait in this game. They should have it for the vast majority of elite units, and it gets assigned to weird units here and there. Chosen don't have it, swordmasters don't have it, iron breakers don't have it. The biggest injustice I feel is the Brettonian Paladin. Dude is a monster slayer by profession, yet terror routs all the time. And there are so many more dumb examples.
Fine, fine. I'll remove one from the Book, but just one.
TK not having any counters? That's some umgi bullshit.
the irony of dwarves vs vamp counts is that wraiths are a hard counter to dwarves, so they have hard counters for each other.
not quite anymore, with the change to ethereal units they dont crush dwarfs as hard as they used to, and things like blasting charges still rip them apart because of the sheer volume of damage
@@gregsmw fair, though I guess I tend to not have that problem because the dwarves I fight on the campaign map rarely throw blasting charges at me. I tend to fear quarrelers more.
i know skeleton spears are technically better melee statted with 4 less MA and 8 more MD but again dwarves they seem a bit unecessary.
Finally Dawi win!!
sick thumbnail
I actually disagree with Turin's take on crumbling. Turin has always had an aversion to undead so I get it; but the thing is a crumbling unit is a fighting unit. They should keep their capture weight while crumbling because they are actively capturing ground instead of running for their lives. Some people have never really accepted it, but never routing is a fundamental trait of undead. It's integral to their identity.
It's mostly just how little damage crumbling does. Like demons in banished state die in seconds.
@@mmorkinism daemons are pretty much entirely intangible though, and made of warpstuff while the undead are (barring wraiths) made of physical substance. If you want undead to crumble REALLY fast? Snipe their lord/heroes and watch them evaporate. The issue is how tanky vamps tend to be.
DAWI!
dawi!!!!
Btw. around 4000 h of WH2 and a 12 year old daughter that threatens her parents with needing a psyciatrist, ... "if we do not behave!", ... a full time job, ... a brilliant mother and lover as best friend (who hates computer gaming). Take care you two (The Lady and the Mullet), there might be an invitation to the german City of Leipzig.
In regards to lords the dawi have really been left behind. In campaign they have two different types of lords and thats it. With a LL you can have 3 unique Lords leading armies and then it gets repetitive. There isnt even any real way to level them differently. This makes me sad.
Just goes to show, there's no faction strong enough to get away with brain-off play.
Long beards are old farts who are to old and grizzled to feel fear and wish to only settle the grudge and show the young Dawi how it’s done.
Iron Breakers are typically younger then long beards but they get the best equipment. That’s how I understand they don’t get ITP
ITP is the penultimate point of "IDGAF," such that desth and horrors mean little. No amount of training offer that, only experience can achieve that level of numbness.
I miss AOE4
Its still bugged. Its been months. What the f is ca doing.
Rock and Stone!
Lore of Nekehara is banned
“Need chariots and a nekehara caster!”
No really??😂😂
Good stuff Turin ty!
Ah, only the passive of Lore of Nehekhara is banned, apparently? Chariots or more scorps would have helped though.
It is my match, ironbreakers is bad, only ror unit good. Lose because i set 3 catapult on fucking top of map and play real bad. This map is real shit dont use it please on tournament.
VS tk dwarf +- good but tk still stronger because 700 catapult kill all roster lol
Tk player bringing spears against dwarfs? No nehekara warriors?
spears aren't expendable right? i think the idea is just units in such numbers that you have good cap control; while ushabti and catapults do the damage. Nehekhara warriors do melt relatively fast to blasting charges anyway.
@@eumaies but why spears instead of warriors?
@@Laucron Same reason you used to take skeleton spears over swords or sometimes empire spears over swordsmen in ye-olden days of TW. Because if you don't expect to kill what you are fighting, then you might as well have a higher MD to last longer while your breadwinners do the killing.
@@Laucron neither does much damage but the spears will last much longer if you are just trying to cap and delay the enemy killing your capping units (and provide a template for your ushabti to fight in)
@@Laucron Because there’s a unit cap in the army build menu on taking too many skeleton warriors, and once you hit that cap but still want more cheap chaff you have to take skeleton spearmen instead. Pretty sure he hit that cap.
Dwarves are awesome!!
BY MY BEARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!