So happy you casted this, in the tz discussion board we all put our heads together to come up with answers for the dawi matchup. fpod is a madman for doing this in a tourney!
Always entertaining when a creative Army utilizes underrated units manages to defy expectations Those flamers gradually picking off the melee Dwarfs reminded me of helions vs roaches
How about a mass thunderer and slayer build? Instead of the longbeards, which seemed to be the most ineffective part of the dawi build. Lots of slayers would discourage the big birds while the thunderers could actually shoot the birds without all the human MP SEM dodging. Fill it out with warriors and rangers for sacrificial bodies, point holding, and flamer shooting.
chaos warriors would hard counter it tbh. Your counter build to this also has to take into account the other style of Tzeentch play, which is spamming chaos warriors to fight on the point.
“Dakka” is the ork word for shooting, or firepower. It’s typically used in the 40k setting, where greenskins actually wield guns and tanks and the like. It’s basically just a fun way to refer to shooting.
11:34 didn't the flamers add a debuff that increases flame/magic damage? Maybe that's why some attacks do better than others, cause some already attack debufed targets^^
flamers always had the warpflame debuff... the issue comes down to the animation/hit of the volley, it has a tendancy to overshoot models if shooting down a hill as it has a tendancy to arc over small units... now dwarf units... maybe it has an even greater issue
I’m looking to get a gaming pc for the holidays. I’ve really wanted to play this for ages, how do I get all armies? As I much prefer the ones available in total war warhammer 2, is there a way when buying wh3?
Flamers look good on the surface but don't they struggle to pay for themselves? In this match they were shooting unimpeded all their ammo into longbeards and stuff and most just broke even. The tzeentch player here was obviously on point and mitigated their squishiness and short range perfectly but I do think that they look better than they actually are
spend ammo, get partial refund, return and repeat is always a good strategy for missile units. Flamers paying for themselves heavily depends on what they're shooting (of course), but a few of them got over 750 value on their first summon. That's 2 full units of dwarf warriors. Focusing on value per shot can be really good in certain situations, but the dwarf army had basically nothing on the field other than long beards to generate that value. That makes flamers look artificially worse in this game. Any unit that can delete 2 full units of dwarf warriors in a handful of volleys is going to be great, just because they swing the balance of power on the battlefield so hard, so fast. Of course the flipside of this is that the Tzeentch player had to micro like a mad man all game to make sure the flamers weren't caught out, using fury units constantly to shut down any ranged play. Its far from an easy to use strategy, but I wouldn't say that because the player used the strategy well it made them look better than they are.
Bit of inaccuracy at the start of the vid, I asked some dwarf players what they thought of chariots, and they in fact did NOT like them. Just a heads up to anyone trying this so you don't end up grudging any dwarfs.
I like the thunderers not for the AP, only 1 tzeench unit had much armor for 90% of the battle, but rather for their ability to hit human missle dodging, jagger-moving SEM flyers. And the flamers are probably tall enough to shoot over other dawi too.
Well I doubt they anticipated this build. Maybe dwarf player thought he would be facing blues/pinks with low armor. Maybe some chaos warriors to grind with longbeards or smth. Oh well this is the nature of mp never know for sure what your facing :)
I am so glad you casted this. I sound like a crazy person trying to convince people this is a real build lol. Your tech against it in the next swiss tourny was great though! I will have to think about how best to deal with those master engineers. GG to Trex as well, definitely made it a hard fight the whole time.
Thanks for showing this off, man! It's pretty ingenious and I'm really shocked to see it working so perfectly. I'm only a campaign casual, but your build makes me wanna try this out, as well. It looks like a ton of fun.
Saw this in the tourney and thought you might post the replay. Deff was one of my favorite bouts aside from the first fight you had as Khorne vs Empire. I felt like it was a lot closer than the second one in the finals. Makes me want to join these tournaments instead of just sparring w my friends.
Flamers are so fun to use, if you can line them up they'll melt anything. as a Tzeentch main I always try to fit in at least one of them if I can in my reinforcements. Plus they're glowing blue and pink fire attacks are very pretty to look at lol
That was such an unnecessary spam of melee infantry from the dwarfs. The way to make these builds work is you use so many ranged units that the enemy cant shut them down not just a few.
Soo cool to see this tzeentch tech! Tzeentch has a lot of trouble vs dwarfs with traditional builds. So glad to see the changer roasting some stunties 😈
Have always loved seeing kite builds work in tournaments. It takes a lot of planning, placement, micro and skill to pull off. From Shogun 2, Rome 2, Attila to now Warhammer, it is always fun to watch a well excited kite absolutely dismantle a rush. Gg wp to both players. 😁
I used to hate them intensely when people would just wood elf you to death with the kite. Domination is all. Land battles need so much policing, and kite builds feel gross to watch there. But in dom, they aren't tactically perfect and rather fit into the meta, instead of define it.
@@patrickleonard4187 I can understand that. Draw kiting has always sucked in TW LB. I think kiting sucks major ass in QB. Tournaments with proper rules prevent draw kiting and shitty play styles. If it's a tournament setting with proper rules, LB kite can be fairly easily countered. All it takes is 1 or 2 slip ups and the kite fails. If you just press the player and tax their micro, they make a mistake the majority of the time which results in a loss for them. WH2 everchosen and faction wars where Lotus Moon tried to kite is a good example of how to beat kite in a tournament. Xiphos and others just methodically moved forward and cut off the map. But there def were a few times where kite pulled it out.
Great match! This is some cool stuff that the Tzeentch player is showing us. You really need to be on top of your micro. Hats off to the Tzeentch player for his build and micro.
They must've updated the flamers. When I used them months ago, all their models would shoot at the same enemy at the edge of formation and it was extremely ineffective
depends, i know exalted flamers were meh, regular flamers since launch / all i seem to figure out in playthrough is that they do better shooting at flat or slightly elevated in front of them terrain.. think it has something to do with the arc of the shot
So happy you casted this, in the tz discussion board we all put our heads together to come up with answers for the dawi matchup. fpod is a madman for doing this in a tourney!
There's a Tzeentch discussion board? Oh yeah, where can I find this?
Yea your fury tests were super helpful. I was way off base on the screamers lol.
"I feel like some volleys hit and some miss."
Tzeench: "Turin, it's like you don't even know me anymore."
Sure, tzeennch designed it that way for greater scheme....
Always entertaining when a creative Army utilizes underrated units manages to defy expectations
Those flamers gradually picking off the melee Dwarfs reminded me of helions vs roaches
Except the helions here hit like Thors.
@@mikerodrigues9822
Weave like a Helion, Sting like a Thor.
Actually amazing thumbnail, I’m sure that was a ton of fun to make man
Took inspiration from the current 40k meta I see, flames of Tz; menace since 2006
How about a mass thunderer and slayer build? Instead of the longbeards, which seemed to be the most ineffective part of the dawi build. Lots of slayers would discourage the big birds while the thunderers could actually shoot the birds without all the human MP SEM dodging. Fill it out with warriors and rangers for sacrificial bodies, point holding, and flamer shooting.
chaos warriors would hard counter it tbh. Your counter build to this also has to take into account the other style of Tzeentch play, which is spamming chaos warriors to fight on the point.
This is such an amazing match! So thematic, exploiting the strengh of tzench! Great casting too :)
Turin thanks for this great content!!!!!!!
what a sick build! now if only nurgle had some good artillery/ranged pieces...
This tzeentch army feels so on theme.
what is DACA?
“Dakka” is the ork word for shooting, or firepower. It’s typically used in the 40k setting, where greenskins actually wield guns and tanks and the like. It’s basically just a fun way to refer to shooting.
@@liamcullen3035 finally i understand! Thanks!
@@manny1manito2 No worries mate! :)
11:34 didn't the flamers add a debuff that increases flame/magic damage? Maybe that's why some attacks do better than others, cause some already attack debufed targets^^
flamers always had the warpflame debuff... the issue comes down to the animation/hit of the volley, it has a tendancy to overshoot models if shooting down a hill as it has a tendancy to arc over small units... now dwarf units... maybe it has an even greater issue
I’m looking to get a gaming pc for the holidays. I’ve really wanted to play this for ages, how do I get all armies? As I much prefer the ones available in total war warhammer 2, is there a way when buying wh3?
Flamers look good on the surface but don't they struggle to pay for themselves? In this match they were shooting unimpeded all their ammo into longbeards and stuff and most just broke even. The tzeentch player here was obviously on point and mitigated their squishiness and short range perfectly but I do think that they look better than they actually are
spend ammo, get partial refund, return and repeat is always a good strategy for missile units. Flamers paying for themselves heavily depends on what they're shooting (of course), but a few of them got over 750 value on their first summon. That's 2 full units of dwarf warriors.
Focusing on value per shot can be really good in certain situations, but the dwarf army had basically nothing on the field other than long beards to generate that value. That makes flamers look artificially worse in this game. Any unit that can delete 2 full units of dwarf warriors in a handful of volleys is going to be great, just because they swing the balance of power on the battlefield so hard, so fast.
Of course the flipside of this is that the Tzeentch player had to micro like a mad man all game to make sure the flamers weren't caught out, using fury units constantly to shut down any ranged play. Its far from an easy to use strategy, but I wouldn't say that because the player used the strategy well it made them look better than they are.
Bit of inaccuracy at the start of the vid, I asked some dwarf players what they thought of chariots, and they in fact did NOT like them. Just a heads up to anyone trying this so you don't end up grudging any dwarfs.
I feel like the dwarves would've been better served bringing more thunderers and cannons, the lack of good AP looked like a huge problem
I like the thunderers not for the AP, only 1 tzeench unit had much armor for 90% of the battle, but rather for their ability to hit human missle dodging, jagger-moving SEM flyers. And the flamers are probably tall enough to shoot over other dawi too.
Well I doubt they anticipated this build. Maybe dwarf player thought he would be facing blues/pinks with low armor.
Maybe some chaos warriors to grind with longbeards or smth.
Oh well this is the nature of mp never know for sure what your facing :)
I am so glad you casted this. I sound like a crazy person trying to convince people this is a real build lol. Your tech against it in the next swiss tourny was great though! I will have to think about how best to deal with those master engineers. GG to Trex as well, definitely made it a hard fight the whole time.
Thanks for showing this off, man! It's pretty ingenious and I'm really shocked to see it working so perfectly.
I'm only a campaign casual, but your build makes me wanna try this out, as well. It looks like a ton of fun.
Saw this in the tourney and thought you might post the replay. Deff was one of my favorite bouts aside from the first fight you had as Khorne vs Empire. I felt like it was a lot closer than the second one in the finals. Makes me want to join these tournaments instead of just sparring w my friends.
You should! And this wasn't the game from the tourney!
Double chicken build is in, can’t wait for triple
Flamers are so fun to use, if you can line them up they'll melt anything. as a Tzeentch main I always try to fit in at least one of them if I can in my reinforcements.
Plus they're glowing blue and pink fire attacks are very pretty to look at lol
That was such an unnecessary spam of melee infantry from the dwarfs. The way to make these builds work is you use so many ranged units that the enemy cant shut them down not just a few.
Soo cool to see this tzeentch tech! Tzeentch has a lot of trouble vs dwarfs with traditional builds. So glad to see the changer roasting some stunties 😈
Have always loved seeing kite builds work in tournaments. It takes a lot of planning, placement, micro and skill to pull off. From Shogun 2, Rome 2, Attila to now Warhammer, it is always fun to watch a well excited kite absolutely dismantle a rush.
Gg wp to both players. 😁
I used to hate them intensely when people would just wood elf you to death with the kite. Domination is all. Land battles need so much policing, and kite builds feel gross to watch there. But in dom, they aren't tactically perfect and rather fit into the meta, instead of define it.
@@patrickleonard4187 I can understand that. Draw kiting has always sucked in TW LB. I think kiting sucks major ass in QB. Tournaments with proper rules prevent draw kiting and shitty play styles.
If it's a tournament setting with proper rules, LB kite can be fairly easily countered. All it takes is 1 or 2 slip ups and the kite fails. If you just press the player and tax their micro, they make a mistake the majority of the time which results in a loss for them.
WH2 everchosen and faction wars where Lotus Moon tried to kite is a good example of how to beat kite in a tournament. Xiphos and others just methodically moved forward and cut off the map. But there def were a few times where kite pulled it out.
love Turin's commentary. always spot on
This was the earlier match from yesterday right? you played this same match up against the same build and won!
This was from a few days ago!! But yes, I played this tzeentch build/player last night also
Dawi are supposed to be an elite faction, they are a horde one...
They can be elite at times also
That thumbnail with many-eyed pheasant is something out of this world.
The thumbnail is a golden pheasant, if you wonder
This was like a meta 40k army list: balls to wall full out flamers, babyyyyy
This built truly pleases Tzeench,
Man, does it hurt to watch the poor Dawi get roasted by all those Slimers and big-chickens.
Loved this. The Fpod micro was the mvp
yes, finally some tz dom
Praise the Chicken overlords
Great match! This is some cool stuff that the Tzeentch player is showing us. You really need to be on top of your micro. Hats off to the Tzeentch player for his build and micro.
Grooooooooge
The blob formations of the drawf units is what did it for the flamers
Great cast! Fun battle to watch!
Wow those dwarves got roasted.
They must've updated the flamers. When I used them months ago, all their models would shoot at the same enemy at the edge of formation and it was extremely ineffective
depends, i know exalted flamers were meh, regular flamers since launch / all i seem to figure out in playthrough is that they do better shooting at flat or slightly elevated in front of them terrain.. think it has something to do with the arc of the shot