I recently watched a video by poorhammer. It was based on how many 40k 2k point armies could you make for $500. Out of 21 factions, only 4 were able to be made at that price point! That's insane to me
That's interesting. I've always suspected that GW pricing is semi-tied to points so that there's no financial advantage to picking one army over another. This seems to be supporting that thesis
try any other hobby, its just as expensive. i dont get why people dont do research into this before complaining or commenting on how expensive 40k is. not to mention almost all the models you buy provide "hobby time", and are still legal 30 years later, my eldar for example, so in one sense its also an investment
@@Wildtaz That is just objectively not true. I can play one page rules for a quarter of the price of 40k, and that's what I do. No hate to anyone who loves it and wants to spend the money on it. It's your money do what you want with it, but it doesn't get rid of the fact that the barrier of entry for playing plastic army man is $500 dollars minimum. That will keep a lot of new people out of the hobby and push them to other games. Hey if that is okay with the people who play 40k, then it works out. I did do research and that is why I made the comment I did. It's the same idea when video game companies want to charge more and more money for no more value, and in some cases less value. Like I said no hate to those that are cool with it, but it'll keep me out of the hobby and others as well.
@@Wildtaz lol no. Hobby supplies, yeah sure but nobody is complaining about that. GW models are way overpriced compared to just about any other company that makes models of equal or greater quality.
The first two opr games I played were not even with green army men, but a cardboard rectangles with name of troops written on them and I had a lot of fun nonetheless 🤩
Fun fact, I remember looking at a (previously) new release that was that space marine turret bunker thing and decided to test something out. I looked at the weight and price of the model, googled a price conversion between US dollars and silver. The model’s price was close… terrifyingly so, to it’s weight in silver. Now it probably has surpassed that price to exactly or higher then its weight in silver.
People can and should play whatever they find fun. That being said a while back I went looking for videos from different TH-cam creators to find where they discussed why they liked/chose to play AOS/40K. For most their reasons were lore and the models, I found one provider who stated that they actually like the game mechanics, structure, and rules. This one provider was involved in the tournament/completive scene and liked the high complexity and granularity of the game when played competively. This I found one video of a player that belongs to a very tiny subset of players (completive), saying they the game for the game itself. So I am not saying that I found all takes from everybody that plays, but I think it is telling that even among GW players you don't find a lot of people talking about actually likening the game mechanics/systems/rules let alone choosing them over another system. It also goes without saying that I did not find anyone playing that patronizes GW because they were consumer friendly or like their FOMO/power creep treadmill/predatory business model.
Good point. One of the things that drew me to OPR was the scaling back of rules, giving more time to focus on the narrative. Sometimes it feels like the ruleset is the price you have to pay to play in the 40k universe.
I'm a dedicated OnePageRules player and a proud owner of multiple 3D printers. The level of detail you can achieve with STL files from various studios is simply astounding. For less than the cost of a Games Workshop starter set, you can get an entry-level resin printer and a bottle of resin. What's incredible is that with just that single bottle of resin, you can print as many models as you'd typically find in a GW starter set. After that initial investment, everything you print becomes a significant cost-saving over purchasing GW models. I often bring some of these 3D printed models to the game stores where we play, and people are consistently blown away by the quality. Even the owners of my main game store are contemplating getting their own printers and collaborating with STL studios to offer 3D printed miniatures. It's clear they see the market evolving rapidly, and the soaring prices of GW products are making alternatives more appealing. I've been thoroughly enjoying your videos and was particularly impressed with your recent battle report. Keep up the fantastic work, and I'm eagerly anticipating your future content!
Thanks for the compliment. I gave in myself and bought a resin printer last year. Yeah, the initial cost was steep, but about as much as starting a 2000pt army in 40k, and since then I've printed 3-4 entire armies with it. There is a bit of a steep learning curve with the printing (and especially cleaning), but now that I've got it down I have big plans... Definitely more batreps on the way.
3 tournaments + 50 2000p games in 10th edition. I agree onepagerules is so mutch better. No rules debates or gotchas in opr. MUTCH BETTER BALANCE. You go i go makes so mutch diffrent, i have been standing 60min bored as f playing 40k 😂 thats when inasked my self why am i wasting my time with this? No paying for rules :) Free list builder :) Nah man i am done with 40k Will keep my imperial knights for some casual games. But my other 5 armys will be sold so i can buy a 3d printing setup simce i have been a opr patreon for 2 years 😊
Yeah, GW should have made 2 ways to play: casual and competitive, and made all the restrictions for the competitive folks instead of applying the rules changes across the board.
I have been playing Warhammer since 3rd edition, and I can tell you right now they have lost their way. One page rules is the answer to all of our frustrations. The only thing Warhammer has over grimdark is the years of lore.
Pretty similar here as well. I got in the game at 2nd edition and I loved it. I stopped playing at 7th/8th and it's no where near as fun as I remember it being
Great comparison between the two systems. I too was a prior GW employee. Back then the discount was 30% and that’s the only way I could afford the models. I love to support the local GW when I can but it’s just too expensive now. I have always said they will price themselves out of their own hobby. Anyway….. looking forward to seeing some BatReps with One Page. Perhaps we can meet up at Waterloo and you can give me a demo sometime. Thanks again for the info.
I have been playing 40k 10th and OPR 3rd recently. I absolutely love the simplicity of opr vs 40k. However I do wish their were more differentiation between factions and the specials of each faction made its way into opr rules. But as a whole i prefer OPR. It is cleaner, faster, and more consistent overall.
You want to get cheaper than even green army men? OPR just moved all their paper models to the free-bin, and if you're creative you can alter the myriad of D&D etc... paper models to make the missing factions. Printing a sheet of paper at the library ~$.10...
I saw that. I'd just uploaded a video on how to get into OPR, and of course, they post that just as I upload the film. I put a note about it in the description of the video when it comes out.
As others have said, any game is really miniatures agnostic. Back in the old days of Warhammer Fantasy, we used to play with little rectangles of card stock, covered in tape, with a grid marked off to represent the individual model bases. Could you use them in “official tournaments”... NO! But could you take them down to the independent FLGS and get a game? Not a problem. You’d generally proxy a new army this way to test your list, and then, once you had a list that worked the way you wanted, buy the actual models over time. For 40k, or AoS, you could easily buy or make the little round bases, write the name of the model on them, and play with friends casually. As far as rules and codexes goes, it’s all out there for free anyway. Sure, you’re using “pirated” content, but if you’re just getting started, or trying a new army, you can always buy the official books at a later time, if and when you can afford it. There’s no “official” OPR tournaments anyway, not in the sense that there are GW sponsored events. So to try to suggest that you’re forced to buy GW models to play GW games is a little misleading. There’s really only a OPR casual scene anyway, and you can use anything you want to play GW games in a casual fashion. So, cost is only really an issue if you’re going to play GW games competitively in sponsored sites and events, which don’t even exist in the OPR world.
Would love to see more videos on onepagerules! I know they have the STL files, but I don't currently have a 3D printer. Would love to know more about if they sell the models already printed, or even others that print their STLs! I have no problem giving money to people inside of a community and company that actually support their fans and customers. I know their miniature agnostic, and I definitely have some models in mind, but wouldn't mind buying some the onepagerules models as well! This might actually give me an in to the grimdark sci-fi war gaming scene. I've been interested for a long time, but the price for 40k is just not justifiable, and the fact that GW (and some of their fans alike) will try to shame players for 3D printing also keeps me from jumping in. This system seems like a great alternative! Sorry for the long comment, just excited to see something like this out there!
I have a video planned for that. They do have a 3rd party that will print them, but the cost is a bit higher than I would have expected (in some cases you pay about the same as GW). I was going to do a "shopping cart" experiment and see what it would cost to buy the army that I 3D printed on my own and compare the costs.
When I were a lad I got together with a mate. I ad to walk up ill int' snow drifts, wi out shoes to play a game of toy soldiers. Sorry, Monty Python flash back there. Anyway, the other lad was given a box of WWII Airfix Germans for a birthday present, (For which he swore a blood oath of revenge). I had my Airfix British Infantry Combat Group and we got together for a game. We were thirteen, and after a discussion we established a set of rules for fire, movement and casualties. It took us 15 minutes to nut out and then we had a game with no dice. It was a blast and probably got 40 minutes out of it with each box containing about 40 figures with MG's, rifles, mortars and grenades. So if two eager lads can come up with a set of rules on the spot for an impromptu game of soldiers, how hard is it for a company to do it. I think the thing was, we were not cynical of the process and for GW there biggest bug bear is rules lawyers who take advantage of what is not explained in a rule to gain advantage. I think One Page seems to be a bit more like the kids we were in that it does not expect the rules lawyers, correct me if I am wrong here.
Prices are an interesting topic. I've seen in the past years that the prices deviate by region heavily. Here in Germany, one of the online shops where I order my combat patrols sells them for 89.95 Euros (~96 USD). VAT included… and even GW “only” sells them for 125 Euros (~133.62 USD) in Europe… again, VAT included…
I've always been fascinated at the lack of uniformity or consistency in pricing. At one point I thought it was based on points (2000 points of one army costs about the same as 2000 in another). Maybe that's part of the plan - never be pinned down and nobody can figure out what they are really worth.
While I wholeheartedly agree that anyone can play and enjoy whatever they want as much as dislike whatever else. I play a fair amount of bad video games that I know are objectively bad for x y or z reasons, but I still enjoy playing them. I do think that games (video, board, or war games) do have objective qualities of the game that makes them good and bad both in a vacuum and when compared to other systems.
So, good video - a few inaccuracies - and not sure if just things have changed or what... * don't include paint and glue costs etc. need that for both if using most minis. * $5 rulebook is not hardcover, is pdf * Joining the pateron does not give you all their models for free - it gives you a 50% discount on their bundles. Yes, there are monthly free models - but no, you don't get all their models for free. It is still a good deal - but just not that cheap.
I'm actually planning on a video where I'll compare buying the same army list in GW models, OPR 3rd party models, STL printing your own, and buying off Etsy.
The game which provides rules that captures the essence of not just my faction but sub-faction on the table. The game that has rules not for generic weapons etc. but the game that corresponds to the lore. The game that isn't vanilla or players are carbon copies of each other.
Though they have a VERY different background and personality than skaven - like the exact opposite. Skaven are, well, rats and vermin. In OPR they are like Secret of NIMH with space weapons.
ah yes GW codexes being out of date before being released.. the FOMO content packs that mess with balance.. I just sold all my 40k lots, and picked up a 3d printer. Its Battletech and OPR for me.
The 40K Universe (barring some total Brexit-sized idiocy) will probably stay the best share Sci Fi universe for a long while (sorry to all the Star Wars or Trek fans out there). But I hope when GW collapses from bloat, they’ll sell their rights to someone who will keep the Universe alive.
About $150. It's larger scale, and it was a way of rebranding the most commonly played army so that player would have to essentially repurchase their models all over again. And the incentive was that the new models had better stats. We were told "old marines aren't going anywhere." A few years later "we're retiring the old models. It's all primaris now." In OPR they made one list for the old GW models and one list for the new.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I'm having a hard time figuring out the "dark brothers" and the "watch Brothers". And their GW counterparts
Ah. I get it. Blood Brothers (Blood Angels), Wolf Brothers (Space Wolves), Dark Brothers (Dark Angels), Knight Brothers (Grey Knights), Watch Brothers (Deathwatch), and no specific group are most likely Ultramarines. They don't have anything for White Scars, Salamanders, or Imperial Fists. @@jackalkhan5676
I think you might be underselling the quality of other miniature producers over the last 20 years. Conventions (the ones with multiple miniature companies in attendance, including smaller companies) were a good source of spotting the really great ones. The quality has always been there, maybe not front and center like GW, but still there if you knew where to look.
As for the cost of GW vs 3d printing, GW sell models more expensive than a nice resin printer. Every average sized mini will cost 10-20c in resin in my experience. So if you have the space to have a resin 3d printer and plan on making anything more than a 2k 40k army printing is cheaper. Unfortunately you might not have the space for a printer and 3d printing companies are usually not cheap. Barely cheaper than buying from gw. 3d printing is not mass production, every order needs to be supported, take a printer 3+ hours to print when it can't be doing other orders and then they need to be cleaned up and cured by hand. But if a friend or someone in your tabletop community prints as a hobby, they might be able to print a build plate full of minis for you for the cost of resin plus a lil bit if they don't need their printer. I have also heard of libraries that have resin printers people can use. Not all hope is lost if you can't get a printer, you might still be able to have an army for a reasonable price.
I agree. When I got my printer it took up a lot of counter space in the Kingdom. Do you play Warmachine at all? When I heard they were going to try to supply all their models with printers I thought that may not have been a great idea.
Hate to say it, If GW did cut prices to help drastically increase sales...not sure that would work out too well. They already cannot keep up with the supply and demand as it is.
The hassle with these things is there is so much that can be said but you can't wax lyrical and keep attention. Basically you are right in the first instance, you play what you like. But a number of your comments I felt were a little disingenuous. Like for instance the need to purchase hobby tools on top of everything else. That is true for paints, glue, clippers and so on for anyone getting into the hobby be it GW or Bolt Action. Further, based on your $10 pm subscription, two years will easily exceed the cost of codex and rule set for GW. As for the STL, either the supplier prints it or you buy your own set up which is not as cheap as they would have you believe, here in Australia. And you better make sure the one you buy can build the bigger models. If the supplier prints it, you also have to pay mail prices, which is not cheap coming from the US. So no savings there. Finally, prices. GW Recommended Retail is only a guide for their products. I rarely purchase from a GW store. The closest I got recently was for the new Avatar model which was out of stock before it was in, in so many stores. I still found it though and saved $30 Aus. Have you noticed its pose? I'm going the full Hamlet with one of the spare heads in that upraised hand. Anyway, I got the $399 Cadia Stands box for $250 at a wargames convention. Don't do much buying online though. Trust issues. So GW insular and pricey but quality and variety. Yes they monopolise their rule set to their models but they cover everything with a rule set and it can be as simple or complex as you want. OPR, agnostic model count. free rules and bring your own army. You can opt to spend money but over all things can be as pricey as issues are still there. I still think you game what you want.
Love the video and about to watch the next few parts. I was a big fan on 40k 3rd - 9th but OPR definitely won me over when I finally thought ... I can't keep this up anymore. That all said I have a question about your point of GW could sell so much more volume if they dropped the price, do they have the manufacturing capacity to meet that increased demand? From interviews I've seen of ex GW employees (mainly over the the painting phase) the company goal is to make models in Nottingham UK forever and having been to Warhammer world I can attest there is nowhere for them to expand their production in their location until the surrounding businesses are willing to sell them land. Plus from what we saw of the scarcity of things like kill teams boxes during the lead up to 10th launch its pretty clear they dont have the capacity for their current player base let along an increased volume from cheaper prices. So doing that would mean less profit margin, for no substantial sales increase because they cant meet current demand let alone a sudden spike in demand.
That's a good point. I'm afraid I don't have very good business sense, so I only comment on things from the consumer perspective. If they were willing to open a FW warehouse in the US, why not a factory? It would be a heavy startup cost, but I think it'd pay off in the long run.
If you are Tier 2 then you get access to the STLs starting from the date you began as a member. You create an account at My Mini Factory and every month they add the files.
I like different armies. Its unattainable to me to buy and paint and codex 4-5 armies, that’s probably around 8-10k 😵💫 OPR is infinitely cheaper and I can have multiple armies Flavor is lacking but with the army forge it a simple Excel file “this unit gains X ability for +X points” and you’ve got the flavor you need
On the price drop...was there an element of 'Better get this while I still have the discount through the job' in your buying? (And yes, I think GW's pricing policy is short-sighted. Best regards.)
Partially. It wasn't until their employee policy changed and I knew I wasn't going to stay on much longer as an on-call that the FOMO binge happened. Mostly it was "hey that looks neat, and it's only $50 for me, why not?" I was way more willing to branch out, especially into their boxed games, because the buy-in price was so low. Get the Warcry starter for $75? Sure!
I would love to watch this video, but I can't hear you over your background music/noise. Trying to listen to a low fidelity microphone through "background music" that is louder than the foreground actually have me a headache. The microphone on it's own would be fine; if you're going to talk over other sounds/music, you should aim to keep their volume at 20% of your speaking volume or less. Any chance at a reupload without the extraneous noise pollution?
I really need to get someone I know to look into this. I hear this from others and I turn the volume on the music track down further and further each time. I just uploaded the 2nd video with music turned down. If that still doesn't work I'll try one with no music at all.
Someone might not wanna buy an apple for 5 dollars even if they really like apples. But if you offer them an apple for 1 dollar they would buy 10. And every box of warhammer would only cost a few dollars to produce, so they can reduce the costs ALOT before they go at a loss. And more sales will pay for the development of the kit alot quicker.
Ok right off the bat, you cant compare prices from 30 years ago to now with out do a minimum wage and cost of living break down too lol. because back then minimum wage was like 4.25ish where i was, and now its 16.28 so almost 4 time that,id like to see a video do a price point of minimum wage to a full time pay check, to how much they should be costing now .....To me its not about better but diffrent, why does something always have to be "better" lol
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming totally feel ya 🙂, just at a ballpark, I do feel I was paying a lot more for mini's back in 93' vs minimum wage, and minimum wage vs mini's costs now. I have had a lot of discussions on this point in many different forums. I bring up the cost of other hobbies or entertainment costs, like coffee, going out to eat, smoking, etc. and the costs of other entertainment usually add up to as much if not more. If you really look at it, 40k also provides you with "hobby time" : modeling, painting, basing, kitbashing etc, that for me and I am sure many others also provides a therapeutic time as well. plus if you have family (kids, uncles, brothers) it provides some family time, witch i look forward to as well, as my 2 sons are into 40k , and I always look forward to our painting or modeling sessions, and no amount of money can replace that 🙂 . its also an investment, considering I just got back from 2nd edition, and found out my 30 year old Eldar army is still table legal 🤪🙃
@@Good.Nuff.Gamingexcept it's not a wargame, it's an abstract strategy game. Not even the first, either. It was derived from an Indian game called Chaturanga.
Just saying I don't think OPR sells a hardcover copy of the rules. They sell the PDF for $5 of the full rules. Honestly they probably don't have the capital to produce a printed rulebook. They have 1 full time employee and that's the founder of the company.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming > Game rules and business model - One Page Rules > 28mm army miniatures quality - Victrix > 28mm skirmish miniatures quality - Hasslefree > 10mm scope and scale - Pendraken > Customer service - Bad Squiddo (Pendraken's a close second, and Element Games is up there too) All of this is in the process of being disrupted by 3D printing. For me, GW isn't near the top in any category except its IP. Opinions vary of course.
@@sjhhejthe concept of a gold standard isnt really intended to designate the absolute pinnacle of value, but to have a baseline comparison for everything else. By having a standard, you can more easily assess what the value of a currency, or in this case, product, is in comparison to that standard. Connotations are pretty powerful, so I totally understand focusing more on the gold part of gold standard rather than the standard part. Tangential, but the phrase "the gold standard" can use any kind of standard or even none at all and still get the point across. We have had silver standards, and food ingredient standards, and a whole host of other things for just about every regulated product. Simply saying, "the standard" works just as well Although wh40k isnt the best in any category, it is almost definitely going to be the most played tabletop wargame sim in a given region. For this reason, comparing it to other games is more likely to be easily understood by your audience.
Good video, personally i find OPR to be just a little bit too streamlined and despite being a unit activation system (which is always better) doesn't feel different enough to escape the cheap imitation feeling. One MAJOR plus for OPR though is that it has FIXED CHARGE RANGE! GW has spoiled all it's game systems by making you roll for charges, i think many people don't realise it's why they stopped enjoying 40k/WHFB after 5th/6th edition. So Fixed charges (and charging being an initial activation) and unit activation gives it a solid basis to be a real alternative rather than the off-brand it is right now imo. Apologies if it's your personal composition but i really dislike your backing music, i find it quite irritating when i'm trying to listen to what you're saying, imo.
Not my own composition. I'm working through the hundreds that Kevin McLeod gave the internet and some work better than others. Have you tried the rules beyond the base set (additional activation choices, landscape rules, they even have command points). I agree that at times it can feel a bit too simplistic, especially in the skirmish games.
I just print my own stuff, because fuck gw, and I mean I print soace marines and all 40k stuff. Granted just for my own use and I dont play official GW games nor their tournaments. I legitimately don't care for them. I took the lovely core rules for OPR Skirmish, home brewed a bit with it and stat sheets for the armies I have that can be found free online, and I play with friends and family.
Before it went mainstream, 30k was even worse. You bought FW stuff, or you lost, simple as that. I played a game where I was tabled in turn one because he played Solar Auxilia and their transports had demolisher cannon shots, but for the cost of a Chimera. he got six of them in each round, no counting the Baneblade he brought to. I wasn't even close to being fun.
Right. It was a bad generalization that if you sign up and stay signed up you'll have access to everything from that moment forward. There was note I added on the screen but it may not have been up long enough. My bad.
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I recently watched a video by poorhammer. It was based on how many 40k 2k point armies could you make for $500. Out of 21 factions, only 4 were able to be made at that price point! That's insane to me
That's interesting. I've always suspected that GW pricing is semi-tied to points so that there's no financial advantage to picking one army over another. This seems to be supporting that thesis
'Maxing out the credit card of a twelve-year-old near you '
try any other hobby, its just as expensive. i dont get why people dont do research into this before complaining or commenting on how expensive 40k is. not to mention almost all the models you buy provide "hobby time", and are still legal 30 years later, my eldar for example, so in one sense its also an investment
@@Wildtaz That is just objectively not true. I can play one page rules for a quarter of the price of 40k, and that's what I do. No hate to anyone who loves it and wants to spend the money on it. It's your money do what you want with it, but it doesn't get rid of the fact that the barrier of entry for playing plastic army man is $500 dollars minimum. That will keep a lot of new people out of the hobby and push them to other games. Hey if that is okay with the people who play 40k, then it works out. I did do research and that is why I made the comment I did. It's the same idea when video game companies want to charge more and more money for no more value, and in some cases less value. Like I said no hate to those that are cool with it, but it'll keep me out of the hobby and others as well.
@@Wildtaz lol no. Hobby supplies, yeah sure but nobody is complaining about that. GW models are way overpriced compared to just about any other company that makes models of equal or greater quality.
The first two opr games I played were not even with green army men, but a cardboard rectangles with name of troops written on them and I had a lot of fun nonetheless 🤩
Nice! OPR is completely behind that and they offer paper versions of minis and terrain.
Fun fact, I remember looking at a (previously) new release that was that space marine turret bunker thing and decided to test something out.
I looked at the weight and price of the model, googled a price conversion between US dollars and silver. The model’s price was close… terrifyingly so, to it’s weight in silver.
Now it probably has surpassed that price to exactly or higher then its weight in silver.
People can and should play whatever they find fun.
That being said a while back I went looking for videos from different TH-cam creators to find where they discussed why they liked/chose to play AOS/40K. For most their reasons were lore and the models, I found one provider who stated that they actually like the game mechanics, structure, and rules. This one provider was involved in the tournament/completive scene and liked the high complexity and granularity of the game when played competively. This I found one video of a player that belongs to a very tiny subset of players (completive), saying they the game for the game itself.
So I am not saying that I found all takes from everybody that plays, but I think it is telling that even among GW players you don't find a lot of people talking about actually likening the game mechanics/systems/rules let alone choosing them over another system. It also goes without saying that I did not find anyone playing that patronizes GW because they were consumer friendly or like their FOMO/power creep treadmill/predatory business model.
Good point. One of the things that drew me to OPR was the scaling back of rules, giving more time to focus on the narrative. Sometimes it feels like the ruleset is the price you have to pay to play in the 40k universe.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming That's what's genius about OPR; you don't have to change anything to use their rules with GW's lore
I'm a dedicated OnePageRules player and a proud owner of multiple 3D printers. The level of detail you can achieve with STL files from various studios is simply astounding. For less than the cost of a Games Workshop starter set, you can get an entry-level resin printer and a bottle of resin. What's incredible is that with just that single bottle of resin, you can print as many models as you'd typically find in a GW starter set. After that initial investment, everything you print becomes a significant cost-saving over purchasing GW models.
I often bring some of these 3D printed models to the game stores where we play, and people are consistently blown away by the quality. Even the owners of my main game store are contemplating getting their own printers and collaborating with STL studios to offer 3D printed miniatures. It's clear they see the market evolving rapidly, and the soaring prices of GW products are making alternatives more appealing.
I've been thoroughly enjoying your videos and was particularly impressed with your recent battle report. Keep up the fantastic work, and I'm eagerly anticipating your future content!
Thanks for the compliment. I gave in myself and bought a resin printer last year. Yeah, the initial cost was steep, but about as much as starting a 2000pt army in 40k, and since then I've printed 3-4 entire armies with it. There is a bit of a steep learning curve with the printing (and especially cleaning), but now that I've got it down I have big plans...
Definitely more batreps on the way.
One page rules is better than 10th edition hands down.
3 tournaments + 50 2000p games in 10th edition. I agree onepagerules is so mutch better. No rules debates or gotchas in opr. MUTCH BETTER BALANCE. You go i go makes so mutch diffrent, i have been standing 60min bored as f playing 40k 😂 thats when inasked my self why am i wasting my time with this?
No paying for rules :)
Free list builder :)
Nah man i am done with 40k
Will keep my imperial knights for some casual games. But my other 5 armys will be sold so i can buy a 3d printing setup simce i have been a opr patreon for 2 years 😊
In 10th edition you know if you lost a game afther the roll of :) lost 7 of 8 tournament games against aeldari 1st turn 😂
Fun
Yeah, GW should have made 2 ways to play: casual and competitive, and made all the restrictions for the competitive folks instead of applying the rules changes across the board.
@@Good.Nuff.Gamingthis is the core of the issue and always has been. There are two very different player bases that want very different things.
Amen
I have been playing Warhammer since 3rd edition, and I can tell you right now they have lost their way. One page rules is the answer to all of our frustrations. The only thing Warhammer has over grimdark is the years of lore.
Pretty similar here as well. I got in the game at 2nd edition and I loved it. I stopped playing at 7th/8th and it's no where near as fun as I remember it being
Great comparison between the two systems. I too was a prior GW employee. Back then the discount was 30% and that’s the only way I could afford the models. I love to support the local GW when I can but it’s just too expensive now. I have always said they will price themselves out of their own hobby. Anyway….. looking forward to seeing some BatReps with One Page. Perhaps we can meet up at Waterloo and you can give me a demo sometime. Thanks again for the info.
I have been playing 40k 10th and OPR 3rd recently. I absolutely love the simplicity of opr vs 40k. However I do wish their were more differentiation between factions and the specials of each faction made its way into opr rules.
But as a whole i prefer OPR. It is cleaner, faster, and more consistent overall.
I can understand that. Instead of rules entirely unique to a faction, it's a universal rule with a new name, at least in some cases.
Do not forget the gw kills armies and units looking at you real space marines.
RIP first gen.
OPR rules !!! the Lore book coming on 9th of april !
You want to get cheaper than even green army men? OPR just moved all their paper models to the free-bin, and if you're creative you can alter the myriad of D&D etc... paper models to make the missing factions.
Printing a sheet of paper at the library ~$.10...
I saw that. I'd just uploaded a video on how to get into OPR, and of course, they post that just as I upload the film. I put a note about it in the description of the video when it comes out.
o7 TYFYS @@Good.Nuff.Gaming
Bro can you link the video or at least tell what it's called?@@Good.Nuff.Gaming
As others have said, any game is really miniatures agnostic. Back in the old days of Warhammer Fantasy, we used to play with little rectangles of card stock, covered in tape, with a grid marked off to represent the individual model bases. Could you use them in “official tournaments”... NO! But could you take them down to the independent FLGS and get a game? Not a problem. You’d generally proxy a new army this way to test your list, and then, once you had a list that worked the way you wanted, buy the actual models over time.
For 40k, or AoS, you could easily buy or make the little round bases, write the name of the model on them, and play with friends casually.
As far as rules and codexes goes, it’s all out there for free anyway. Sure, you’re using “pirated” content, but if you’re just getting started, or trying a new army, you can always buy the official books at a later time, if and when you can afford it.
There’s no “official” OPR tournaments anyway, not in the sense that there are GW sponsored events. So to try to suggest that you’re forced to buy GW models to play GW games is a little misleading. There’s really only a OPR casual scene anyway, and you can use anything you want to play GW games in a casual fashion.
So, cost is only really an issue if you’re going to play GW games competitively in sponsored sites and events, which don’t even exist in the OPR world.
Will be trying this out tomorrow. My 40k armies are sitting unused in the garage.
Nice. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much it feels like 40k but without the rules bloat.
Would love to see more videos on onepagerules! I know they have the STL files, but I don't currently have a 3D printer. Would love to know more about if they sell the models already printed, or even others that print their STLs! I have no problem giving money to people inside of a community and company that actually support their fans and customers. I know their miniature agnostic, and I definitely have some models in mind, but wouldn't mind buying some the onepagerules models as well! This might actually give me an in to the grimdark sci-fi war gaming scene. I've been interested for a long time, but the price for 40k is just not justifiable, and the fact that GW (and some of their fans alike) will try to shame players for 3D printing also keeps me from jumping in. This system seems like a great alternative! Sorry for the long comment, just excited to see something like this out there!
I have a video planned for that. They do have a 3rd party that will print them, but the cost is a bit higher than I would have expected (in some cases you pay about the same as GW). I was going to do a "shopping cart" experiment and see what it would cost to buy the army that I 3D printed on my own and compare the costs.
When I were a lad I got together with a mate. I ad to walk up ill int' snow drifts, wi out shoes to play a game of toy soldiers. Sorry, Monty Python flash back there. Anyway, the other lad was given a box of WWII Airfix Germans for a birthday present, (For which he swore a blood oath of revenge). I had my Airfix British Infantry Combat Group and we got together for a game. We were thirteen, and after a discussion we established a set of rules for fire, movement and casualties. It took us 15 minutes to nut out and then we had a game with no dice. It was a blast and probably got 40 minutes out of it with each box containing about 40 figures with MG's, rifles, mortars and grenades.
So if two eager lads can come up with a set of rules on the spot for an impromptu game of soldiers, how hard is it for a company to do it. I think the thing was, we were not cynical of the process and for GW there biggest bug bear is rules lawyers who take advantage of what is not explained in a rule to gain advantage. I think One Page seems to be a bit more like the kids we were in that it does not expect the rules lawyers, correct me if I am wrong here.
I agree. There are probably tons of players with better game systems. The problem is getting your out there and getting people to try it.
Prices are an interesting topic. I've seen in the past years that the prices deviate by region heavily. Here in Germany, one of the online shops where I order my combat patrols sells them for 89.95 Euros (~96 USD). VAT included… and even GW “only” sells them for 125 Euros (~133.62 USD) in Europe… again, VAT included…
I've always been fascinated at the lack of uniformity or consistency in pricing. At one point I thought it was based on points (2000 points of one army costs about the same as 2000 in another). Maybe that's part of the plan - never be pinned down and nobody can figure out what they are really worth.
While I wholeheartedly agree that anyone can play and enjoy whatever they want as much as dislike whatever else.
I play a fair amount of bad video games that I know are objectively bad for x y or z reasons, but I still enjoy playing them.
I do think that games (video, board, or war games) do have objective qualities of the game that makes them good and bad both in a vacuum and when compared to other systems.
So, good video - a few inaccuracies - and not sure if just things have changed or what...
* don't include paint and glue costs etc. need that for both if using most minis.
* $5 rulebook is not hardcover, is pdf
* Joining the pateron does not give you all their models for free - it gives you a 50% discount on their bundles. Yes, there are monthly free models - but no, you don't get all their models for free.
It is still a good deal - but just not that cheap.
also: onepagerules is half the price for entry.
For a solid wh40k roster you calculate with 500 dollars just for models.
I'm actually planning on a video where I'll compare buying the same army list in GW models, OPR 3rd party models, STL printing your own, and buying off Etsy.
The game which provides rules that captures the essence of not just my faction but sub-faction on the table. The game that has rules not for generic weapons etc. but the game that corresponds to the lore. The game that isn't vanilla or players are carbon copies of each other.
I think OPR is starting to build that. They were initially just a 40k knock off, but now they want to build their own game, lore, etc.
GW makes a much higher gross margin than what you mention, but excellent video
One Page Rules got Space Skavens. That is all I need ;)
Though they have a VERY different background and personality than skaven - like the exact opposite. Skaven are, well, rats and vermin. In OPR they are like Secret of NIMH with space weapons.
ah yes GW codexes being out of date before being released.. the FOMO content packs that mess with balance.. I just sold all my 40k lots, and picked up a 3d printer. Its Battletech and OPR for me.
The 40K Universe (barring some total Brexit-sized idiocy) will probably stay the best share Sci Fi universe for a long while (sorry to all the Star Wars or Trek fans out there). But I hope when GW collapses from bloat, they’ll sell their rights to someone who will keep the Universe alive.
Has someone who hasn't played any of the games workshop games, can anyone explain to me what the different types of battle brothers mean?
About $150. It's larger scale, and it was a way of rebranding the most commonly played army so that player would have to essentially repurchase their models all over again. And the incentive was that the new models had better stats. We were told "old marines aren't going anywhere." A few years later "we're retiring the old models. It's all primaris now." In OPR they made one list for the old GW models and one list for the new.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I'm having a hard time figuring out the "dark brothers" and the "watch Brothers". And their GW counterparts
Ah. I get it. Blood Brothers (Blood Angels), Wolf Brothers (Space Wolves), Dark Brothers (Dark Angels), Knight Brothers (Grey Knights), Watch Brothers (Deathwatch), and no specific group are most likely Ultramarines. They don't have anything for White Scars, Salamanders, or Imperial Fists. @@jackalkhan5676
I think you might be underselling the quality of other miniature producers over the last 20 years. Conventions (the ones with multiple miniature companies in attendance, including smaller companies) were a good source of spotting the really great ones. The quality has always been there, maybe not front and center like GW, but still there if you knew where to look.
That is entirely likely. There are so many it's hard to keep up. You can spend hours just looking at different STLs for one army.
As for the cost of GW vs 3d printing, GW sell models more expensive than a nice resin printer. Every average sized mini will cost 10-20c in resin in my experience. So if you have the space to have a resin 3d printer and plan on making anything more than a 2k 40k army printing is cheaper.
Unfortunately you might not have the space for a printer and 3d printing companies are usually not cheap. Barely cheaper than buying from gw. 3d printing is not mass production, every order needs to be supported, take a printer 3+ hours to print when it can't be doing other orders and then they need to be cleaned up and cured by hand.
But if a friend or someone in your tabletop community prints as a hobby, they might be able to print a build plate full of minis for you for the cost of resin plus a lil bit if they don't need their printer. I have also heard of libraries that have resin printers people can use. Not all hope is lost if you can't get a printer, you might still be able to have an army for a reasonable price.
I agree. When I got my printer it took up a lot of counter space in the Kingdom. Do you play Warmachine at all? When I heard they were going to try to supply all their models with printers I thought that may not have been a great idea.
Hate to say it, If GW did cut prices to help drastically increase sales...not sure that would work out too well. They already cannot keep up with the supply and demand as it is.
That's a good point. If they built another factory it would mess with their "all in Nottingham" tradition.
I Love One Page Rules!
Bit off topic but could we have a skirmish comparison between OPR and space/sword weirdos? :D
I'm not familiar with that one. I'll have to take a look
The hassle with these things is there is so much that can be said but you can't wax lyrical and keep attention. Basically you are right in the first instance, you play what you like. But a number of your comments I felt were a little disingenuous.
Like for instance the need to purchase hobby tools on top of everything else. That is true for paints, glue, clippers and so on for anyone getting into the hobby be it GW or Bolt Action.
Further, based on your $10 pm subscription, two years will easily exceed the cost of codex and rule set for GW.
As for the STL, either the supplier prints it or you buy your own set up which is not as cheap as they would have you believe, here in Australia. And you better make sure the one you buy can build the bigger models. If the supplier prints it, you also have to pay mail prices, which is not cheap coming from the US. So no savings there.
Finally, prices. GW Recommended Retail is only a guide for their products. I rarely purchase from a GW store. The closest I got recently was for the new Avatar model which was out of stock before it was in, in so many stores. I still found it though and saved $30 Aus. Have you noticed its pose? I'm going the full Hamlet with one of the spare heads in that upraised hand. Anyway, I got the $399 Cadia Stands box for $250 at a wargames convention. Don't do much buying online though. Trust issues.
So GW insular and pricey but quality and variety. Yes they monopolise their rule set to their models but they cover everything with a rule set and it can be as simple or complex as you want. OPR, agnostic model count. free rules and bring your own army. You can opt to spend money but over all things can be as pricey as issues are still there. I still think you game what you want.
Love the video and about to watch the next few parts. I was a big fan on 40k 3rd - 9th but OPR definitely won me over when I finally thought ... I can't keep this up anymore.
That all said I have a question about your point of GW could sell so much more volume if they dropped the price, do they have the manufacturing capacity to meet that increased demand?
From interviews I've seen of ex GW employees (mainly over the the painting phase) the company goal is to make models in Nottingham UK forever and having been to Warhammer world I can attest there is nowhere for them to expand their production in their location until the surrounding businesses are willing to sell them land. Plus from what we saw of the scarcity of things like kill teams boxes during the lead up to 10th launch its pretty clear they dont have the capacity for their current player base let along an increased volume from cheaper prices. So doing that would mean less profit margin, for no substantial sales increase because they cant meet current demand let alone a sudden spike in demand.
That's a good point. I'm afraid I don't have very good business sense, so I only comment on things from the consumer perspective. If they were willing to open a FW warehouse in the US, why not a factory? It would be a heavy startup cost, but I think it'd pay off in the long run.
I didn't get access to all stls just a 50% discount did i do something wrong
If you are Tier 2 then you get access to the STLs starting from the date you began as a member. You create an account at My Mini Factory and every month they add the files.
I like different armies. Its unattainable to me to buy and paint and codex 4-5 armies, that’s probably around 8-10k 😵💫
OPR is infinitely cheaper and I can have multiple armies
Flavor is lacking but with the army forge it a simple Excel file “this unit gains X ability for +X points” and you’ve got the flavor you need
On the price drop...was there an element of 'Better get this while I still have the discount through the job' in your buying?
(And yes, I think GW's pricing policy is short-sighted. Best regards.)
Partially. It wasn't until their employee policy changed and I knew I wasn't going to stay on much longer as an on-call that the FOMO binge happened. Mostly it was "hey that looks neat, and it's only $50 for me, why not?" I was way more willing to branch out, especially into their boxed games, because the buy-in price was so low. Get the Warcry starter for $75? Sure!
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Who wouldn't?
Good video but your music is louder than your voice
You're not the first to mention that. I'm still trying to figure on the best setting. I'll keep at it. Thanks for letting me know.
I would love to watch this video, but I can't hear you over your background music/noise. Trying to listen to a low fidelity microphone through "background music" that is louder than the foreground actually have me a headache. The microphone on it's own would be fine; if you're going to talk over other sounds/music, you should aim to keep their volume at 20% of your speaking volume or less. Any chance at a reupload without the extraneous noise pollution?
I really need to get someone I know to look into this. I hear this from others and I turn the volume on the music track down further and further each time. I just uploaded the 2nd video with music turned down. If that still doesn't work I'll try one with no music at all.
song?
It's from Incompetech Music (Kevin MacLeod). I got a bunch of people who said it was really annoying so I didn't use it again.
Someone might not wanna buy an apple for 5 dollars even if they really like apples.
But if you offer them an apple for 1 dollar they would buy 10.
And every box of warhammer would only cost a few dollars to produce, so they can reduce the costs ALOT before they go at a loss. And more sales will pay for the development of the kit alot quicker.
Only played a few minutes in but couldn’t hear you over the music. No music whilst you’re speaking would be great!
This was an early video. I've been trying to figure it out since then. Hopefully the later videos are better.
Ok right off the bat, you cant compare prices from 30 years ago to now with out do a minimum wage and cost of living break down too lol. because back then minimum wage was like 4.25ish where i was, and now its 16.28 so almost 4 time that,id like to see a video do a price point of minimum wage to a full time pay check, to how much they should be costing now .....To me its not about better but diffrent, why does something always have to be "better" lol
I would be interested in such a video too, but it should be made by someone more familiar with economics. My field is history.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming totally feel ya 🙂, just at a ballpark, I do feel I was paying a lot more for mini's back in 93' vs minimum wage, and minimum wage vs mini's costs now.
I have had a lot of discussions on this point in many different forums. I bring up the cost of other hobbies or entertainment costs, like coffee, going out to eat, smoking, etc. and the costs of other entertainment usually add up to as much if not more.
If you really look at it, 40k also provides you with "hobby time" : modeling, painting, basing, kitbashing etc, that for me and I am sure many others also provides a therapeutic time as well. plus if you have family (kids, uncles, brothers) it provides some family time, witch i look forward to as well, as my 2 sons are into 40k , and I always look forward to our painting or modeling sessions, and no amount of money can replace that 🙂 . its also an investment, considering I just got back from 2nd edition, and found out my 30 year old Eldar army is still table legal 🤪🙃
For me, 10th edtion 40k needed alternating activations to attract me.
As I've said, even the first tabletop wargame in world history (chess) realized that you have to alternate activations.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming
Makes me wanna try chess with Warhammer style turns and seeing how much of a shit show it is.
@@Good.Nuff.Gamingexcept it's not a wargame, it's an abstract strategy game. Not even the first, either. It was derived from an Indian game called Chaturanga.
Just saying I don't think OPR sells a hardcover copy of the rules. They sell the PDF for $5 of the full rules. Honestly they probably don't have the capital to produce a printed rulebook. They have 1 full time employee and that's the founder of the company.
Ah, well I supposed you could head to a store like Office Depot and have them print and bind one for pretty cheap.
great content but the background music is distracting me from your speaking
"Games Workshop is the gold standard for tabletop gaming". Yeah, nah. Not even close.
What would you put in its place? Warlord Games? Privateer Press? Or is there no one company that holds that position?
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming > Game rules and business model - One Page Rules
> 28mm army miniatures quality - Victrix
> 28mm skirmish miniatures quality - Hasslefree
> 10mm scope and scale - Pendraken
> Customer service - Bad Squiddo (Pendraken's a close second, and Element Games is up there too)
All of this is in the process of being disrupted by 3D printing.
For me, GW isn't near the top in any category except its IP.
Opinions vary of course.
@@sjhhejthe concept of a gold standard isnt really intended to designate the absolute pinnacle of value, but to have a baseline comparison for everything else. By having a standard, you can more easily assess what the value of a currency, or in this case, product, is in comparison to that standard. Connotations are pretty powerful, so I totally understand focusing more on the gold part of gold standard rather than the standard part. Tangential, but the phrase "the gold standard" can use any kind of standard or even none at all and still get the point across. We have had silver standards, and food ingredient standards, and a whole host of other things for just about every regulated product. Simply saying, "the standard" works just as well
Although wh40k isnt the best in any category, it is almost definitely going to be the most played tabletop wargame sim in a given region. For this reason, comparing it to other games is more likely to be easily understood by your audience.
OPR FTW
Good video, personally i find OPR to be just a little bit too streamlined and despite being a unit activation system (which is always better) doesn't feel different enough to escape the cheap imitation feeling. One MAJOR plus for OPR though is that it has FIXED CHARGE RANGE! GW has spoiled all it's game systems by making you roll for charges, i think many people don't realise it's why they stopped enjoying 40k/WHFB after 5th/6th edition. So Fixed charges (and charging being an initial activation) and unit activation gives it a solid basis to be a real alternative rather than the off-brand it is right now imo.
Apologies if it's your personal composition but i really dislike your backing music, i find it quite irritating when i'm trying to listen to what you're saying, imo.
Not my own composition. I'm working through the hundreds that Kevin McLeod gave the internet and some work better than others.
Have you tried the rules beyond the base set (additional activation choices, landscape rules, they even have command points). I agree that at times it can feel a bit too simplistic, especially in the skirmish games.
I just print my own stuff, because fuck gw, and I mean I print soace marines and all 40k stuff. Granted just for my own use and I dont play official GW games nor their tournaments. I legitimately don't care for them. I took the lovely core rules for OPR Skirmish, home brewed a bit with it and stat sheets for the armies I have that can be found free online, and I play with friends and family.
You need a minimum of $100 on paints alone to make them look decent. $200 if you buy citadel.
Only if you buy only GW paints. You can get by with acrylic hobby paint.
"For $10 a month, get the rules for free"...
That's not what the word "free" means.
I wrote that poorly. You get the rules for free regardless, and then then on top of that you get the models.
GW is a pay to win situation.
Before it went mainstream, 30k was even worse. You bought FW stuff, or you lost, simple as that. I played a game where I was tabled in turn one because he played Solar Auxilia and their transports had demolisher cannon shots, but for the cost of a Chimera. he got six of them in each round, no counting the Baneblade he brought to. I wasn't even close to being fun.
OPR. No contest.
ANY game system is better than GW 40k - regardless of the version.
You do not get every .stl they have ever made. You just get the current release and a substantial discount on past ones.
Right. It was a bad generalization that if you sign up and stay signed up you'll have access to everything from that moment forward. There was note I added on the screen but it may not have been up long enough. My bad.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Ah, I must have missed the note. In any case, awesome video. Thanks for doing these.