Ex GW Staff explains WHY so many Age of Sigmar kits are going away
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
- ageofsigmar #tabletopgaming #miniwargaming
Logic has entered the chat.
Let's talk about the 'why' behind this week's Age of Sigmar news! There's been a lot of negativity about the #newaos article this week, but I haven't a lot of people discussing why it might be happening, and as ex GW staff, I feel like I can add a bit of background information to explain things. I'm not trying to take away any bad feelings you might have, just adding some logic to the conversation! Please let me know what you think of the video, and watch until the end! I'm not interested in hate comments about GW, there's plenty of videos on other channels that will welcome you there, but I'd love to have a constructive chat about if my video helped explain things a bit!
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Pinning this from the description!
Let's talk about the 'why' behind this week's Age of Sigmar news! There's been a lot of negativity about the #newaos article this week, but I haven't a lot of people discussing why it might be happening, and as ex GW staff, I feel like I can add a bit of background information to explain things. I'm not trying to take away any bad feelings you might have, just adding some logic to the conversation! Please let me know what you think of the video, and watch until the end! I'm not interested in hate comments about GW, there's plenty of videos on other channels that will welcome you there, but I'd love to have a constructive chat about if my video helped explain things a bit!
For me, the biggest issue is : why should a kit only for one game system?
Why can’t you have Leviathan Dreadnought in your 40K space marine army ?
Why can’t you have latest sculpt of Slaves to Darkness or Black orks in The Old World ?
The more units in an army the harder it is to balance. My advice never buy 30k models for 40K, GW will make them legends. That is a dirty sales tactic GW has enployed in the past and will in the future.
I read one theory that maybe it’s an internal business reason, they only want kits to come under one game so they can budget and track sales and manage production for that one game better. A kit for multiple games will appear in the accounting for multiple games which might be too much hassle for them to bother with anymore (regardless of the tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent developing the kits like all those gorgeous heresy dreadnoughts and tanks that 40K players surely would buy much more of than heresy players…)
@@Mr_Waffle. Interesting, and likely accurate conundrum they must have to face, yes.
Dumb internal non-compete clauses that exist due to a combination of internal politics, complacent management, and maximizing shareholder value. GW entertains, or outright encourages disputes between design studios so it can attempt to justify the need for more model purchases by it's consumers.
Honestly, maximizing shareholder value is one of the most toxic ideas in modern business. It absolutely deletes long-term planning, while encouraging predatory practices and discouraging innovation. GW SHOULD be 100% behind some of their game systems sharing models, as it would decrease the barriers to entry and potentially increase the broader investment of more players - ie purchasing more specialized kits for more games. Instead, GW has opted to attempt to sell you identical, or similar, kits twice they think it'll push their stock price.
because it doesn't fit the lore...
The not selling bit doesn't sit in super well when Gunpla is still printing kits from the 80s. They still have their limited runs but those limited runs are known in advance. The storage formula is there but at the same time: X is sold out, cool print some more in a few weeks/months, Y isn't selling, then stop printing until they're sold. Z only sells occasionally, then second string it and store them in facility Z. The core of the hobby should be these incredible miniatures, letting it be the games is a recipe for sadness because the paper rules publishing side will forever be increasingly behind current rules. Lore, campaigns, art, hobbying, and factional direction shifts should have enough leverage to move paper in as robust an IP as we have.
Very different businesses. With gamesworkshop releasing models every week some stuff will have to come off sale.
I have no idea where you get your info but there's a LOT of stuff more recent than the 80s that doesn't get reprints in gunpla. Like a lot a lot. Like a painful amount.
I've been waiting on a few reprints and they only go up and up by the day. Now imagine those units were needed for a competitive game. What do you think that does for accessibility?
(Please Bandai, reprint more HGUC, I'm dying)
@@MediocreHobbies With full respect, sir, I must say that Bendai releasing almost new models 3 times more than GW a week. I know the bussiness is not the same, but they keep things not rude all the time. The way GW treat their comsumers is not something you see anywhere.
I haven't heard a single new argument for nuking half of a very new range that is supposed to be the "face" of AoS.
I meant to say "good argument", don't know why I typed "new" instead xD
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
the only "good" argument is that the proportions are slightly off and more heroic scale whilst the 3rd and 4th ed stormcast while inferior in design and concept (and basically just a generic knight in armour now) - are more realistic and less heroic-scale. That is partly why, without a doubt, they trashed them.
I am not sure I correctly understood your comment, but he clearly said that models that don't sell well will eventually get removed. I suppose we'll never know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the new stormcast models sold a lot better than the older ones, according to what I saw on the Internet.
Just a clarification point. GW might be valued at £7 Billion, but their turnover over last year was about £500 Million. £7 billions is what people think it would cost to buy GW, not how much they got paid/made in a year.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies Hi, thanks for responding, though I'll admit I'm slightly confused by it - I by no means meant any criticism of what you said in the video and broadly agree with you (If they were selling, they'd still be sold...) and generally disagree with the GW bashing I see on a lot of social media - they're a business, they run like a business and we shouldn't be surprised by that, becuase if they didn't, they'd be selling no minis, as they'd go bust.
The point I was making was more that people seem to thing GW are some sort of enormous behemoth company, but really they're a medium sized fish in small pond (TT wargaming) - the example I always use is that I work at the hospital a 10 minute walk away from GW HQ, our turnover last year was £1.8 Billion, or to put it more simply, GW is just over a quarter of the size of it's local hospital. And something like Wizards of the Coast absolutely dwarfs it.
@daviddalby6217 it's the same response being given to everyone.
@@absolutfreak5012 yeah this is pretty tacky
@@absolutfreak5012yep, I can see that now - ah well...
I always like your positivity, and I continue to be a fanboy but Stormcast being so bloated was GW’s fault, not the consumers’. They released that many kits to grab sales and that cycle will continue. Stormcasts will get rebloated in 4.0 again.
I didn’t even have a chance to get my dracolines done before they’re going away, so that means I’m just going to proxy them as whatever Stormcast cavalry unit is released down the road. My paladins will be whatever heavy infantry is released. I’m still going to use my models I paid for, they’re GW models and I’ll base them on whatever size bases I need to, they’ll just count-as whatever new datasheets get released.
My ballistas are going to be stolen by my Night Goblins for The Old World though 😂
Exactly. The bloat Warhammer, both AoS and 40k, are currently suffering from is the direct result of GW's current design philosophy where we don't get customization options, and every loadout needs to be its own box with its own rules entry. A Space Marine Force Commander used to have dozens of different loadout options taking up half a page in the codex- now we have tens of captains and lieutenants instead, taking up just as many pages. Devastator Marines had 6+ weapons to chose from, now we have a sperate box of Primaris for each and every one. The bloat will continue, and so will the culling, for as long as GW continues on writing rules like that. They could have simply merged most of those Stormcast into a more reasonable number of warscrolls, but that would have ment offering players a real choice of wargear options - just like the Old World does.
That’s fine to do until I face you in a tournament after they have officially been moved to legends. I’m calling you out if it is illegal so I can get that win. It’s petty, but the competitive scene is the competitive scene.
@@DerOrk Blame our "modern" education system for being the real root cause behind everything...
I used to work as a filthy Red Shirt at my local GW back in the late 2000's/early 2010's. We had a short-lived program called 'The Academy' program, which would supposedly teach new players (re: kids) how to *properly build*, paint, *write an army list* & finally play a game.
It was an absolute shitshow trying to teach even 13/14 year olds how to build a fething game-legal Tactical Squad, because so many of these kids were illiterate and couldn't add 10 + 5 without using a bloody calculator!
The program lasted barely a year before being dropped as a terrible idea
We would get complaints from parents all the time about how ridiculous most of the kits were, with too many options, 0 instructions, and codices/army books that were, "far beyond the levels of grade schoolers to possibly understand." Their kids "wouldn't know or understand" that they couldn't use every last weapon in the box & thus "force" parents to invest in multiple 'replacement boxes' to build proper versions of most of their units/vehicles, etc...
So GW killed off options to appease their biggest market, namely middle class parents who's kids would stay in the hobby for 6 - 12 months.
This was over a decade ago... the average middle schooler/high schooler is 100x dumber today than they were even in 2010. (...I mean, at least in 2010 kids still knew how to count out $0.75 in change, but nowadays? Eh, not so much!)
@@drunkenastarte5243 what kind of a middle schooler can afford an AoS or w40k army?
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Removing a model from production for a new model doesn't make removing the rules for the first model reasonable,
Many of these having been sold out at the time they removed them implies they weren't taking up warehouse space. Especially given all the out of print Forgeworld figures that have cluttered up the website.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Your points make total sense, but surely “they don’t sell” is almost entirely their own fault- the rules? When Eldar were overly powerful at the start of 10th their ancient 20 year old fire prism kits were constantly sold out. Make an army better and people will buy it, but I guess when you’re pumping out so much new stuff constantly it’s cheaper to kill a product than to hire a rules writer to make it an enjoyable army to play. Based on the Painting Phase’s interview with James Hewitt, GW wants to spend as little time and money on writing rules for the game they sell as possible. It just depressing
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
It's BS that they "don't sell" in a sense that no one wants them.
Firstly about 80% of GW's customers don't play any of the games, so we can deduce GW's customers are mainly painters and collectors, though hardcore gamers can be used to stimulate sales thus the rules being "tweaked" to boost sales. That's why they employ near 300 staff to design the miniatures, and about 10 or so staff to write the rules: almost none of them have any talent for rules-writing at this point.
Once you appreciate that you realise GW's customers have the luxury of literally picking any model they like to paint.
Most of the Stormcast units they picked for deletion were being sold at £40 for 10 models (LOL) and are WEBSTORE ONLY, whilst the kits that weren't deleted are all sold at FLGSs with 15-20% discounts.
GW are not like a normal company, they're actually very stupid. They don't realise when they price models highly and even worse make it webstore-only that cuts sales. they just assume no one likes the model when in reality it's the PRICE that killed sales. Those warcry boxed sets are priced at extreme levels and are webstore only: of course they're not shifting.
This is partly why Warhammer Fantasy died: the price was too high, and why Old World will also, naturally fail.
@@Norcha8 This isn't wholly true. the older Stormcast sold poorly which is WHY they were made online only. They weren't online only until halfway through 3e.
Beasts of Chaos went to TOW only because management has been fighting with both AoS and TOW, since there's lots of arguments about TOW which is why there are legacy factions at all in TOW. They don't want to share their beans.
and Warhammer fantasy died because there was only one standardised game size. 2K, which was hundreds of models. TOW has 4 standardised game sizes. Two of which are *under* 2K.
Way more than just gameplay that matters, the fun/quirky/impressive/pretty/challenging or satisfying to paint values of the sculpts really matters to sales too (something GW for me has been falling down on of late fairly often) - you might buy into a whole army even as a serious tabletop gamer simply because you love the theme and some of the minis not because they are objectively a good army. Plus online only isn't a good idea - I generally discover the new cool mini's mostly by actually going into the local store a few times a year, and I expect I'm not the only one, so unless its mentioned while I'm there...
From what I've seen of the old word's revival they haven't done it badly rules wise, other than leaving out far too many cool factions. And to some extent not spending a fortune on the rules is to be expected, the rules to these games in many ways can't even be changed from the stuff published in the 80's that much - 40K is supposed to feel like 40K to play etc. The most 'perfect' rulebook imaginable won't actually make it a good rulebook as in part it is the quirks of the system that make it fun in its own unique way.
@@Norcha8 exactly, it feels like some would miss these points on purpose just to play white knights.
I like your positivity, I really do.
But let's be honest, I clicked on the video hoping I would learn something. Spoiler : I did not😅
We certainly aren't as knowledgeable as you about the logistic of minis production, but we were all raised and educated in a capitalistic system. We do understand the basic that you're explaining here.
Pb here is not the "why". Again, we all understand why. The pb here is the "how"🤔.
I am pretty sure you understand that this specific move is bad customer communication.
Why don't you adress it 😉?
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I play infinity from Corvus Belli. They also have whole armies out of catalog/print/manufacturing. BUT they keep the rules for these armies in the game. Plus they have proxy rules that as long as it is an infinity model, you can use it. For them not selling isn't a reason too pull an army from the game. Plus free rules, free armybuilder, etc to keeping up with your collection far easier. GW could have this easily be resolved by telling players that the models will not be sold no more, BUT they can count-as the new stuff/profiles/etc. And if you want to lessen that you could shove profiles together of the units look similar. So your argument that it is "Natural" and something too get used too, I think other companies show that it can be done better. It can be solved with rules being kept up to date/viable or allowed to be counted as something else to keep a collection in the game. This is an example of a company only interrested in future sales. Even GW has its own example: How many times have the Space Marine kits changed, but still count as space marines....
Other companies aren’t on the scale or under the same pressure as GW but I appreciate what you mean. You can play with any models you want as long as it’s not an official GW tournament, most tournaments allow proxies/old models and only a fraction of the customer base play in tournaments. Appreciate the comment pal
I mean you explained some of the possibilities about the thoughts behind dumping models that aren't selling, but you didn't connect WHY they aren't selling. If the kits are cool, then it must be something else. Do people just buy one, and that's it? Are they not buying any, because the rules in-game aren't good? Some of those Stormiest Eternals kits have spent more time rather than less being unavailable/waitlisted, so even if we wanted to get them, we couldn't. Any thoughts on variables like that?
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
it's because the kits are at a very high price point (£40 for 10) and have been hit with constant price hikes and are WEBSTORE ONLY which means most people who might buy them can't afford them / take their money elsewhere. Look at the stuff again, it's almost all webstore only, which means no 20% discount. The stuff isnt' affordable even with 20% discount for many, and GW put it on their webstore and get confused when no one buys them.
The stormcast units that aren't on the chopping block appear to all be available to buy from your FLGS for £32 instead of £40.
It's cheaper to buy a lot of those Stormcast miniatures on eBay than to buy them from GW. It is probably down to people buying and splitting the boxed sets that these miniatures haven't been selling from store.
You can't just assume the kits are cool can play into the calculation on GW's side. A kit might be cool in the eyes of people who like it, but garbage in the eyes of everyone else. I know a guy who prefers the old Stormcast aesthetic to the new one, but a *vast* majority of people prefer the new look. It'll be the same when they inevitably do a refresh on Fyreslayers. That line is cool to an exceptionally small percent of the player base and could really use a reimagining so that it isn't just unrecognizable orange haired mohawk dudes as far as the eye can see. But that will upset some portion of the players of that faction, no matter how sorely needed.
I think the problem is that their messaging has been horrible. The biggest "problem" is the Stormcast. Of course Beasts players were going to be upset, but they're a faction that was on the chopping block for a while same with nakey orcs. They could have easily shown exactly what was going to be replaced so we didn't have as much fear, as well as instead of giving "Timed rules" encourage people to use their Sequitors or Old Liberators as new Liberators.
All of this is a GW created problem by making overly bespoke rules for each different slight variant of "Heavily armored stormcast infantry on a 30mm base with a hammer and shield." that could have been fixed by making the rules just be "Here is your unit of heavily armored stormcast infantry on a 30mm base with a hammer and a shield, use the mini you feel most appropriate."
Yes. It should be a variant sculpt not a new unit.
Yeah. They should have just folded units together into new singular ones. All single hand weapon people, all two handed weapons, etc.
@@photonfartsqueeze6694 honestly barely even that. My KT models have rules for sword & board, pistol, and rifle on the same datasheet. One rule for the Stormcast himself, e.g. armour, health, to-hit, and one line each for each weapon. Simples.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@darthkek1953 its like they learned absolutely nothing from the first born-primaris debacle. Thats why it comes across as so stupid on their part.
I hope the Thunderbird is secured well, its rocking in the background :P
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies oof. boilerplate responses with unrelated context are a bad look
Thunderhawk*
Its the precident. Do models need an expiry date now? Are fyreslayers the next on the block? We need proper communication
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
If models aren't selling, especially recent models, there are likely two culprits:
1. the rules are bad
2. GW is charging too much for the model in-question
Maybe they should fix both of those before considering removing kits?
Easy to say hard to do.
@MediocreHobbies If this gets posted twice, I apologize. I was trying to do a carriage return and failed; the message then disappeared on my end.
If it's hard to do, then GW needs better rules writers. That doesn't mean every unit needs to be "top tier." That would be worse for the health of the game. But, as an example, the Battle Sanctum was released sometime in 2020 but didn't sell well. It's was around $140 US the last time I saw one in a store, plagued with mediocre rules, and further burdened by the rules for deploying fortifications combined with its massive area (about 9"). It was added the Legends last year, after only being on the market three years and barely over 1 edition. The only attempts to "fix" the Battle Sanctum were to lower its points cost. For about $20 more, I could purchase one of the three Sisters "combat patrols" and get far more useful models on the tabletop.
You're seriously telling me this is an acceptable business practice? Abandon a model after three years rather than make an actual effort to fix any of the problems that might increase its sales?
Oh, wait, this is GW. It was that very practice that led to Sisters of Battle being metal-only for twenty-six years because their rules were hot garbage ever since 2E meanwhile fans had been clamoring for almost two decades for halfway usable rules and plastic models.
I am loosing 1/5 of my slaves to darkness army with not being able to use the warcry warbands, i own all the once they remove exept two
Lucky you... I wanted them for so long but always postponed
I bought my warcry for slaves to darkness just last week when they announced this. Good thing i am not a tourney person. Sucks tho for the comp people.
I'm in the same boat, I started in warcry and then moved to AOS, I'm just going to proxy the models as Mauraders/Darkoath,
Play Warcry. Problem solved.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Good vid. A current insider I know tells me that Stormcast kits literally never sell outside of the starter boxes; ever, like worse than Idoneth and Lumineth. Did your experience match this?
Every store I have been to across the US has piles of old Stormcast for sale. Often including the old five man packs. They just aren’t selling. And the new Thunderstrike pattern seems to be much more popular.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
What about Dark Elves. As a legendary army not currently being in the The Old world main lists, do you think the kits are being removed to be re released with an updated army book in the future.
Perhaps I reckon there will be a dark elf update in AOS like there was for high elves with the lumineth. And then after that we will get the old kits back in old world.
“Finished up my service…”
What? It sounds like working for GW is equivalent to doing a couple combat tours or something.
It’s just terminology used in this company and many many others, it’s not strictly for army use 😄
I think you missed an important distinction. The issue isn’t that range are discontinued. That’s normal.
The issue is that those ranges, some of them only a few years old, won’t be playable anymore. Most people have a pill of shame, which translates into years of delay before your last kit reach the table. If some ranges like the 2e AOS stormcast lose their rules in just 6 years, then it doesn’t make sense to buy any of them at all.
There’s no excuse for a 6b company to discontinue something as essential as rule support. Especially considering it doesn’t take any warehouse space and how low wages are.
Maybe this is a good case of buy to build and paint, not to put in a draw and get around to it at some point in the far future. I have now a striked rule, im not allowed to buy any models until all i have it built and painted, the exception is limited run kits. Doing thia rule i have reduced my back log down by 60-70% in a year and im aiming to get it to 100% by the end of the year or beginning of next year.
Dont get me wrong, fighting against the FOMO is hard but i have seen it out of control in the past, one of my friends has a 28000+ tau army and has only built 6-8k of it, and painted less than 2K, he is sitting on literal £1000s of pounds of plastic he will never get around to building or painting and thats just one of the many games systems he owns.
No thanks i want to have a zero pile of shame hobby.
@@peppermintshore people pay the extra for competitive play. If all you're getting is homebrew stuff, but at tournament prices, you might as well get a 3d printer and brrrrrr it.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@MediocreHobbies do you use a bot to reply to every comment thread? Using the same reply to each comment is odd.
@@peppermintshore the pile of shame argument is funny anyway. So the complaint is now an army that's been collecting dust on a shelf and never played can't be played?
I was going to get back in and buy 40K around the holidays. Looking at everything with edition releases and the way GW does business pushed me away. I bought different minis, play a mini-agnostic system and use non-Citadel paints I get from my local game store to support local.
And stuff like this is just confirming that I was right to do so.
Good for you! Lots of cool options out there, no-one is forced to play Warhammer 😊
People might have been happier if they announce models are being "consolidated" into remaining units, rather than mothballing them. I bet that people will be doing that anyway.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
If it’s not the best decision for the people who fund the company (customers) then it’s not the best decision for “the company” it’s where best for a person with decision making power.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Thanks for posting this. I am a big SCE collector and had a lot of these models already being squatted. You're right, they are never really played (even in the editions they came out in IMHO) with certain units being the go-to for armies. That being said, I will still use them as I don't play competitively at all and was already running sequitors and liberators as the same unit in 3e. I am very excited about the new, streamlined models too as I have quite a large force of Thunderstrike armor. I want more names heroes to be reforged in it, like Naeve Blacktalon. I want my Gavriel Sureheart to be taller and more imposing.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I do think giving people more notice about these cancellations would mitigate the anger from fans. The people who bought Kratos tanks for use in 40k comes to mind. The paint was barely dry on a lot of people's models before it went to Legends.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Great video andy, we appreciate the calmness with which you explained it :). The problem I see is the distrust that has been generated right now in the brand image. I could have done it like with the primaris, step by step and with delicacy, but here it was with the delicacy of a steamroller. I get the impression that it is going to be more expensive for them (especially for marketing) to regain that trust than what they save in a warehouse...
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Kudos for this video. Very thoughtful and all makes sense. I think what is a shame is the company's aversion to multi-use kits, feels like that would be good news for us and for GW (for exactly the reason you talked about: more sales per box on the shelves is good news!) That feels like it's an outcome of internal dysfunction and we just have to hope that at some point the relevant people at GW see the light and doesn't put the sales attribution cart before the commercial horse. And I do think people have a legitimate complaint that the Stormcast range wasn't grown at a more sustainable pace. But, big picture, I think you make a great case.
Why would a company want to make the same kit for 2 or more game systems.
1. Less warehouse space needed
Warehouse space is now dedicated to a single product vs multiple products.
2. Less molds required.
Single mold can be used to fill the need over 2 or more game systems
3. Less unique packaging
Single packaging (cover art) instead of having a bespoke cover art for each game system
Better return on overall investment, which means a higher profit margin.
Less logistics when dealing with a single product over multiple game systems.
When/If the product becomes out dated, it is easier and more cost effective to replace this single product vs having to replace multiple products over multiple game systems.
From an Operations and Capital Expenditure POV it makes no sense to create the additional overhead involved with creating a bespoke product for each game system.
The Marketing or Sales departments may argue that point of a single product being used over multiple game systems; but neither of those departments should be the final decision makers on how product lines are produced
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Taking models out of rotation to make room for a replacement kit would be fine. No one would care.
The thing that pisses everyone off is they don’t do that. They take the old kit out, abandon the rules for that unit
Bring in a whole new kit with new rules to invalidate your existing miniatures.
That’s what grinds everyone’s gears.
This hobby is a lifelong obsession that can take years or decades to assemble and paint a force. Only to have it yanked from underneath you.
People would still buy the fancy new kit even if they didn’t invalidate the old models.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
To save on warehouse space, gw should adopt how daemons of chaos were compatible with 40k and WHFB/AOS. For beasts, their sprues could be tooled with gun and other futuristic weapons. I remember WD encouraged this.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
It's a shame that alot of what is in demand just comes down to tournament play and the rules writing team. I wish more people were actually buying the models they like and not just whatever is smashing the meta this week.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Mate, 80% of GW's customers DO NOT PLAY THE GAME. That's 20% who do play a GW game, and only, what, 1% ? 5?% who meta chase (and they do earn GW a lotta money, sure).
The reason people aren't buying the models is because they are priced too high.
Look at the Stormcast list. All the 10 man units being shelved are £40 for 10 models. That's an insane price point - but note they are ALL "WEBSTORE ONLY". That means no 20% discount from your FLGS. All the 10-man stormcast kits that are still available, are newers sure, but also available to buy for £32 from 3rd party stores.
GW price this stuff too high in the first place, then lock it up on the "webstore only" and then act confused when people don't buy them?
It's not that "no one is buying them" as that implies no one wants them: it's because GW's stupid choices make most unable to afford the stuff in the first place. This is what killed WFB: people just couldn't afford it (and why Old World is going to die note).
META can drive sales to a specific model but at the end of the day 4 in 5 of GW's customers have never played a wargame in their life (source is a CEO report).
That 80% number is & has been made up for a while.
@@Norcha8 there's literally no way to verify those numbers so they might aswell be made up which tbh they might be. I've never met anyone who bought and owns (buying it for someone else doesn't count) a GW model not to use it, whether it be in a GW system or not.
@MediocreHobbies your copy and paste response makes your opinion come across even less sincere
As a fellow ex GW employee of 16 years who left 9 months ago, I completely agree with your comments. Though I have a huge Beasts of Chaos army (all minotaur and dragon ogers!) and a large Bonesplittas army, I agree that if products are selling like crazy, they don't get pulled. Now, an argument could be made that poor rules sometimes influence sales. If a beautiful unit (like Aventus) has sub par rules, it can influence a segment of the customer base not to buy them. This was probably an influencing factor with the bonesplittas. I love my savage boyz, but there was only one unit in the entire army that had a Rend of more than 0.
Great video, thanks for being a positive influence on the interwebs!!!
Hey man, that’s awesome, where were you working? Yeah I wish they would release sales figures and maybe people would chill a bit 😂
Great to have your insight on this, always good to have a decision like this given some context, would love more of it in the future.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
It's interesting that Aventis Firestrike was included in an ability in the new Cities of Sigmar battletome, I wonder if that was an attempt to get people to pick some up as an ally. I thought it was such a cool idea but then I went and looked at the price of Aventis and it wasn't in my price range at the time. Hopefully no one is feeling frustrated having bought one recently. Still a beautiful kit though!
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies Well said, I agree. For the record I think you came across fine, very rational and it's good context for people to have when holding this conversation.
The main ones I'm hurting from is plastic Wargor, the herdstone and the Untamed Beasts. I just wanted the Wargor and Herdstone for painting and terrain, but the Untamed Beasts were my chaos marauder replacement for my army, so now my project is ruined because no way am I going to pay 2nd hand prices.
This was for a Cult of Slaanesh army; I was using Untamed Beasts as my Chaos Marauders so that their more savage looked clashed better with the elegance of the Dark Elves.
I believe they will all be back for old world. Every last one of them.
@@MediocreHobbies I hope so, and it isn't just the non-AoS models.
@@MediocreHobbies This is the height of hypocrisy in the ToW community. You insult AOS models for AOS as "soulless". You forbid others to use old fantasy models for AoS, like a jealous child does not allow them to play with other toys.
But you were proud of yourself when you stole AoS models from AoS, weren't you?
Yeah I dont know, firstly i appreciate and applaud the fact that your going against the grain to speak what you feel is true, thats pretty difficult to do especially when you have a big enough platform like yourself. But I feel as though the only times GW should and can discontinue kits without massive community backlash is if theyre updating the kit. The issue with the argument of "theres only so much warehouse space" is that we already know that GW can manage it, not only are they making enormous ammounts of profit which could absolutely afford more warehouse space, but they have had the made to order system come in and out of the hobby since I joined like 8 years ago. They could easilly keep the moulds and make them made to order while still giving them rules. But the comparison to river island isnt exactly fair. Clothes have always been seasonal and whoever buys them buys them and whoever doesnt misses out, but because there is rules in games workshop games like beastmen, it would be like saying "ok anyone that bought beastmen in the last 20 years can keep their models but they cant play aos with them" "ok anyone that bought river island clothes that are out of season can keep their clothes but they cant wear them outside" its a little unfair and a little silly to make that comparison but I get where your coming from. Anyway not trying to spread negativity or anything but i feel its important as part of the community to speak out if people are being mistreated for being a customer especially that this could happen with any range at any time gw just has to make that decision.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies for sure it's an incredibly divisive and difficult topic to discuss as there is alot of emotion at play but I think any opinion is justified once people aren't getting nasty or dismissive of eachother
It is on a flight stand and it seems to be grayish black. Would like to know what it is I might want to get one.
Thanks
Fire raptor
Problem with Aventis isn't that it isn't a great lookin model, the unit didn't have good rules people wanted to use ingame. It wasn't a competitive warscroll. If they simply had updated the warscroll to make Aventis great - it would most likely have sold at least a little better.
I understand this logic that a lot of people apply to the issue but the problem is it’s inaccurate. We were told so many times while working there that the % of people who play versus just collect and paint is crayz. Like 15% play and the rest are collectors. Especially true when it comes to competitive players they make up less than 1% of the player base. You get me?
@@MediocreHobbies I know, therefore I mentioned it would sell a little better, not much more.
As someone who collected Warcry warbands, it was pretty disappointing to see some of the kits disappear in as little as two years.
Appreciate that they have to drop models to release new ones. On social media, GW said buy while you have the chance, but most of these sold out within a few hours.
Not sure what the problem with doing a final made order run on kits they are retiring. The fact they sold out so quickly suggest there is still demand for them.
I don’t think the logistics would work that. Don’t they get the box packaging made in China and order it with a 6 month or so lead time to come over by boat. They couldn’t just do a made to order without a loooong wait for people to get their models if people ordered a lot.
vote with your feet. There are lots of rule set and models out there that will scratch the same itch without having to get hosed every time GW want to fellate shareholders.
@glyngreen538 I would prefer the wait than not be able to get the models at all. Current MTO is a six month lead time.
Giving people notice is a good thing, but selling out in a few hours is not really giving notice.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I remember when they stopped them as a Warcry band, they doubled the model count and released them for AoS and allowed them to be sold in third party retailers.
Then, in 2022 or whenever, they HALVED the models in them and RAISED THE PRICE then restricted it to webstore only (so no 15-20% discount).
That's why they're not selling. From what I can tell the warcry kits are aimed at painters and sell nicely towards their primary customer base (painters): but at £35 per box now for 9-10 models and no discount, of course few are buying them. That's GW's fault and choice: it's not that the boxed sets are bad or that no one wants them, contrary to this video's claims.
I think it's understandable that they removed kits for various reasons, but they could be a bit more open about why and a bit longer roadmap, and also give a made-to-order send off for the stuff that gets removed.
That I 100% agree. A two week made to order grace period for all kits retiring.
Two of the armies I had the most fun as hobby projects were Greenskinz (which disappeared in the first Orruk Warclans battletome) and Beasts of Chaos.
The first one I started because I wanted to have an army of "normal orcs" to play in AOS. It was fun to go through these venerable kits and build them and paint them up to be MINE.
The Beast of Chaos started, innocently enough during The Pandemic because I had managed to get a Start Collecting set and then the Broken Realms(?) Bullgor formation box at a discount, mainly just to paint up until earlier this year when my local shop was running a narrative fun AOS league then I decided to get them finished and onto the table.
I still own both forces and I fully plan to keep them and all the other models from the list that I own.
The idea has occured to me to use the Orc and Beasts as an opportunity to finally pull the trigger on One Page Rule and use them to see what that game has to offer me.
All companies are obligated to keep themselves afloat, and though its disappointing when something goes away, it is a part of the process.
I also have a not too small force of Dispossessed that I can easily fold into OPR as well.
As an alien scientist of my acquaintance was fond of observing "There are always possibilities"
Always pal. And one he rules is a great idea for them.
It’s sad about the Warcry stuff. Game started off looking like a cool chaos-AOS Necromunda thing, but GW bowed to pressure of people wanting to use other AOS stuff. And now it’s just a way to release new AOS models, more so if the chaos tribes are gone totally. Bit of a shame, I really wanted them to do deeper into each tribe. Cool characters, cavalry options, unique realm themed monsters.
I don't play Warcryt but I think the Necrumunda players were happy Kill Team was added so they made "skirmish 40k" there and not change the heart of Necromunda. GW could have made just some AoS Skirmish rules. Didn't even need models TBH. Just a ruleset.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Do you think they are going to do the same for other ranges or even games? How is LI doing according to you?
I honestly don’t know. I’ve been expecting it with middle earth for years. But they keep updating the licence.
Games Workshop will do what Games Workshop do. It first happened to me when the Undead army were split an half of my only painted army became unusable.
I learned back then that GW don't owe me anything, but in return I owe them nothing...certainly not any loyalty. Other manufacturers, games, conversions, proxying, house rules, fan group supplements all exist as ways to soften the blow.
Ultimately, the consumer can only control their own actions. If this decision bothers you, change your buying/playing habits and let them know through the only method they will ever hear - the tills.
Agreed, life is too short to spend on a hobby that makes you miserable. There’s lots of options out there!
Wait, is Drycha Hamadreth going away with 4th edition? I just ordered one for my brother's army.
The old school resin one. Not the beautiful plastic one.
Ah, cheers.
Oh the branchwraith was the old world Drycha? Hell of a glow up.
My problem is the life time of the models GW is giving them, cuz it feels to me that if i don't buy the model INMEDIATLY AS IT COMES OUT, then i wont get the most of it until GW says "didn't do well, scrap it and make a new one",
if anything it makes me not wanting to buy models now...
Those who buy are now submited to the overall market and sales that their only control is how good they do in game and even that is completly in the hands of the rules they get...
It fucking sucks.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Everything GW sell has a limited lifespan and if you like it you should def collect it soon as you can, I learnt this the hard way thinking WHFB would be around forever and I’d have enough time to collect everything I wanted…. This is why old kits in Old world are so popular it’s people like me getting the kits they missed out on back in the day
I don't disagree with anything you've said. As with a number of things GW does it's not what they're doing, it's how they're doing it and the way that's communicated to us.
Because of the exhausting weekly churn of new models, and the heavy enticement from them to get us to buy the new shiny thing, there's often times where older models get ignored over new ones. And then there's a lot of times where I might go to buy a model and it's sold out for months at a time, likely due to warehouse and manufacturing space being focussed on those new models. Sales are always going to be poor for a model you've not produced and has been unavailable for half the year. That's the how they're doing it.
How they're communicating it, in this article specifically is that "we can't possibly be expected to keep making all these old things for you to buy AND keep making new things!" when, unless there's some faustian bargain in play I don't know about, they're not actually required to keep making as many new models as they do, or aggresively and predatorily pushing them at the expense of existing kits. Knowing the tiniest amount about how much it must cost to design and make new models (and the moulds required for them) it's almost baffling that they don't try to incentivise us buying older kits more often, because there's no new design work or tooling required so higher profit. Especially higher profit when the price of the old kits is keeping being "adjusted" to meet the newer, more complicated kits which we're told are priced higher because of these backend costs.
The aformentioned inventory problems they face mean that a lot of the things being removed are either currently, or have been very recently out of stock, and with this announcement being sprung on everyone in the general consumer base we've had no time to get the things that we might have liked to pick up at some point but been holding off on for whatever reason. I suspect there may be more than a few ebay auctions for those that had been available after this announcement, marking the price of already not inexpensive items due to the out of production nature of them.
Like the inflexibility of GW to offer an actual proper pre-order system for their items, or their reluctance to include digital rules updates on a subscription basis, it seems like this is just more money they're leaving on the table. Marking kits as last chance to buy, and having them sell out immediately is the same as not producing enough new releases for the demand. It seems great on paper but could they not be taking more advantage of the renewed demand? Imagine if they offered a Last Chance To Buy system like their Made To Order system, where you got notice models were being removed, and had a relatively long time period to place an order for them (lets say something spanning at least one month to account for most people being able to get a paycheck during it) and that those items will then be made as a last run so people could reasonably have a chance to stock up on the kits they might want for their army before seeing them vanish?
They could go a step further and have the retirement of kits be on a regular basis. Normalise the removal of items so there's less outcry when kits are removed from sale, and drive people to not just check what is new and shiny but what old things they've been putting off getting that they have to get now. I'm not sure it'd do my mental health any more favours than the current new release churn does but it feels like it would fit with the FOMO oriented sales tactics, and would possibly give the company better idea of the demand of some kits before removing them from sale.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Welp. Looks like folks with *entire armies* getting nuked are gonna have to find somewhere that’ll let them keep playing them…
Somewhere *else.*
That’s cool man, there’s a lot of great game systems out there!
I’ve got a couple of units from my slaves to darkness army that are no longer supported, I never play in tournaments so I’m happy to use them in casual games. It’s a little annoying but I don’t mind too much at the end of the day, especially with some new stuff coming out, gives me more of an excuse to expand them 👌🏻
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I think the biggest thing is now adays gw went from keeping stuff around way to long and never updating to all of a sudden dropping an ax and executing full lines all at once and changing things every three years as opposed to 5 to 20 years lol but if they just did it little by little I think it would hurt less
Ye for sure. There is a better system they just need to find it.
At what point can you blame GW for shooting themselves in the foot? Rules sell models and they write the rules. If a kit doesn’t sell, it’s THEIR fault.
It could also be down to people just not liking the model. Wierd as it sounds but i will not buy any model that i dont like the look of, no matter how powerful and game breaking it is.
Sometime they just cant gwt the unit to work, space marine rievers for example, they are not great but i love the models so will always have them in the Phobos Kill Team, and when i get my space marine army painted up iwill have them in it. However i have a feeling the my get the axe in 11th edition
The problem is that when you have 78 different kits in the line, even if the rules for all of them are good, you can only fit so many figures into an army. So some are going to be left behind or pushed out simply because "I've put all the ten best models in my army and there's no room for an eleventh."
And if they then updated the rules for the eleventh, you might put it in your army, and the old number ten gets pushed out
@@peppermintshore but a lot of new, beautiful kits are being squatted. It's not that the models are horrible or not selling. The problem is they've sold once now they need to resell to the spent-out customers.
As someone who work for GW for many years. I can tell you that there are a lot more people who just build and paint models only than there are people who play the games. I would say almost 70-80% people just paint.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I don't play AoS but there were quite a few of the minis that are being done away with that I had planned to pick up at some point for use in other games. In they go they go, I'll just have to look for alternatives.
It’s always when the models go that people were just about to buy them 😄
Dropping all those Skaven from AoS is making me a lot less likely to actually play The Old World. I wasn't expecting a *lot* of support for them, but just entirely removing the entire TOW lineup from sales is pretty annoying.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Had Beasts of Chaos been an actual array of different beasts and not just Goats they might have been more popular. GW did this to themselves IMO
I don’t understand what you mean.
@@MediocreHobbies Going back 2 decades Beasts of Chaos has always been one of the least popular factions. That didn't change much in AoS. I personally think their model range and thematic design where the animal form the units take is only a variation of Goat/Bull is to at least partially to blame, as that's very limiting and not likely to garner widespread appeal
I like the balanced view you've given, as clearly there's a lot of conflicting feelings, as the Stormcast Eternals are probably my favourite faction in all of Warhammer (and I've been playing on-off since the late 90s, but consistently since 2014). I'm obviously gutted for the people who are losing their entire armies for the game system.
I adored the original Stormcast and the Sacrosanct chambers - I painted over 5k points worth of Celestial Vindicators with those models (and the Vanguard stuff - which I think is so cool, but doesn't really fit the narrative for Celestial Vindicators!), particulalry the robes look.
But when the Thunderstrike stuff came out, as a better painter, I rebooted my army, and have painted 10 Vindictors and the Knight Relictor so far, and haven't played many games. I have also really struggled with the robed Stormcast for how I wanted them to look - the same as the 1st iteration of the army (red and purple), or something different? And I never worked it out.
But whilst sad, I am absolutely so keen for the new liberators as they're one of my favourite units, and why I jumped on AoS after Fantasy was discontinued.
Don't worry though - I'm trying Old World with Bretonnians, with a fiefdom inspired by Baratheons and old Scottish lords and nobles history.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I have a large "real" beastmen army, all gors and minotaurs. I was expecting these guys to go but the real hurt is my alt for what I was going to play was stormcast sacrosanct, so I'm waiting for the new rules to see what I do. My beasts though I'm excited to play in old world, Some of these guys will be getting rebased for a second time from old fantasy.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Please what is the aircraft on the top shelf behind you? It is on the shelf with the Titan. It is on your right for this angle
It is on your left behind you.
It’s a fire raptor
Really odd that they kept the crappy looking skaven plague monk kit.
But I guess they have a warehouse full of them.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Which River island shop, i used to delivery for them, travelled over from MK warehouse to Dublin and a few stores nearby. I think you are talking complete sense mate if it's not selling, they have to get rid so they can keep going and innovate new stuff
Hahaha when I worked there it was in arnnots
@MediocreHobbies is that the shop smack bang in the pedestrian part of Dublin, because that was one of my shops
you're not alone with Firestrike, great model but I have never seen it on a table, the store managers I know have never sold one off the shelf. Though one thing I noticed, the unnamed character alt build of that kit was not listed on the list of things going away... so maybe the character is but the unnamed leader unit isn't?
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
5:40 This is so true. I, too, have always thought that the Tauralon is an amazing piece.. Never bought it for myself, basically never see anyone post a picture of it, never see it in games. ; /
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I see your point and to be honest it makes absolute sense from a business point of view. But the point you missed here is that they used this excuse to go ahead with setting a precedent of removing miniatures that were released less than six years ago. How would that translate to customer retention? It's ok to cite business reasons to remove models that do not sell but that same reasoning must be applied to other aspects of the business.
How do you imagine SCE players' confidence will be with buying new kits going forward? Why would they spend hundreds of pounds for something that might be retired a couple of years down the line? Removing the ENTIRE Sacrosant range was a step too far and in my opinion disrespectful of customers' time and money.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
All good and true things. I've always been curious what the process is on the design element for the products. As much time and effort that goes into bringing products to market, for them to at times makes me wonder where they missed the mark. You can't please everyone all the time, but when something is blatantly unpopular you have to wonder what got missed in the development process.
I know, some things just get missed. A lot of the internal departments are a lot smaller than you’d think and they work pretty independently so I don’t think that helps either! Cheers for the comment man
I don't buy the whole not making money on older plastic kits, they have paid for themselves many times over. The main upfront cost is in making new moulds, after that has been covered by initial sales making more plastic kits cost pennies if you are at GW scale. This is more likely a shelf space and storage issue for GW, we know they can't make enough of popular kits to keep up so reducing the number of lines you need to keep supplied means more kits in stock and more sales. You can't sell what you don't have.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies Yeah it's fine 👍
I mean the thing we don't know with some of these Stormcast and other newer kit deletes is that we don't have the full picture and GW isn't going to divulge what they probably see as sensitive commercial info. GW may have used the expensive steel moulds or they may have been the cheaper ones that have been talked about from a different material which have shorter lifespan and the moulds are just wearing out. For me the issue is GW seem to be heading down the card game route and things go out of rotation but there is so much more effort and time goes into building and painting an army unlike a card deck that makes it harder to take.
Why spend that time on a GW game when there are so many other great miniature game options and many that allow you to choose from dozens of alternative figures?
The problem isn’t that they dumb tje models now. It’s what’s in between the lines. When something isn’t selling under their perspective they will simply delete it. If another specialist game team needs the kits for their yearly selling reports (gw is actually built like this apparently) your models will be renoved from the game and put into another one. Means your invest is never over. Play the newest stuff or good luck in finding a group that plays an old edition.
Your armies or models are constantly in the threat of being cancelled away - that insecurity is pushing me out. And to be honest on a level that I consider to leave the painting part too.
There where so much dick moves in the last couple of years - I‘m fed up.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies thank you for the warm words. But I am kind of not interested in the (gw) hobby anymore.
Just paint some stuff here and there - but I won’t put any efforts into army building anymore. Bestiarium miniatures here I come lol
hey Andy, Gigantor here. im really glas AoS gave me a whole new range of night goblins for my old world army. i like how nearly all the models are useable even though not all of them were ports from warhammer fantasy. gonna start with a 500 point list thats like......................80% squigs
Hahahaha. Nice pal. That will look epic. Hope you’re keeping well.
Hey Andy, I really value your channel and I can say you've encouraged me in my painting and modelling journey. But I don't see the logic here in releasing a video to defend games workshop. I know you said it was a feels bad moment but overall you justified the decision purely from the standpoint of GW's profitability. But as you said, GW is a very profitable company already and basically holds a semi monopoly in tabletop miniatures. The argument about warehouse space comes across as very narrow minded, not only because GW is so profitable but also because i feel like there could be other options, either when it comes to honesty and clarity of communication or in making the models MTO or something. I understand we don't want negativity in the hobby but I don't see how this video helps because people's feelings are valid and GW's reasons are for narrow self interest, and not the interests of the hobby.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
From my experience the warcry units tended to be very popular and difficult to find, even online. There were a couple that didn't sell great, but that's because their rules were so bad, they basically didn't have rules.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
People keep forgetting, GW's customers include roughly 80% who have never played any of the wargames. The models drive the sales and that's why GW say they are a "model company not a games company" and why they have some 200-300 miniature designers vs 10-20 ruleswriters.
The Warcry stuff was a stroke of genius as it allowed them to put out kits aimed (in reality) at painters and collectors, and allowed them to be creative. From what I can estimate they sold very well - and ate into some of GW's competitors.
But then they price hiked them oved and over and at £35 per box and "WEBSTORE ONLY" (i.e. no discount from your LFGS) that means low sales. If these kits aren't selling it's because GW priced them too highly. That's why there's some disbelieve, because what is "not selling" at GW has no connection to the demand for the item: GW do not operate like other companies.
So speaking on the SCE removals, I think the anger comes from a lack of info from GW.
My assumption too was like yours, that the kits are being removed and replaced with Thunderstrike versions - and Knight characters will probably end up as a single, multi-use kit, along the lines of the Primaris Captain kit.
And my assumption is because when GW announced the retirement of the firstborn kits last year (scout, terminators, jump pack marines), we saw the same outcry of anger, but if GW had just said "these are coming back in Primaris scale, but if you want to use firstborn as proxies, that's fine too" then they would've avoided the issue then - and they would avoid the issue now.
And I base this on basically not hearing the same anger from Skaven players. They expect the range refresh, and while some are sad to see the old kits going from a nostalgia perspective, it's not anger.
Beyond this though, I don't have an excuse for BOC or Bonesplitta players, it just sucks.
I'm sure I did read in the article that they are indeed being repackaged once again for The Old World, but if that's not the game they play, then yeah, it's just no consolation.
I also agree with you about the reasoning for the WarCry stuff leaving (and I think they even implied it, as the Dark Path Savagers kit isn't being retired) but while they may be used as generic marauders, it does suck that they're losing their individual flavour.
It would also be REALLY useful if GW addressed the question on whether they're just removing the rules from AOS, but the models will remain for sale for WarCry, or if they're also retiring the models themselves.
Anyway, just my 2c.
My army wasn't affected (well, technically 1 model was removed: Madcap Shaman) but my thoughts on where the anger should be directed, as well as my assumptions.
I may very well be wrong about SCE, but again, GW should do better with their comms.
We’ll get more information soon, totally understand the frustration based around this one article but hopefully things will be explained better soon and we can see the benefits too
It's not good. Makes customers unsure about investing in GW stuff.
They now do this regularly. It's not about rules it's about miniature collections being invested in and then made impossible to complete.
If stuff is not selling fast enough, warn the customers, give them 3 months warning, watch them sell out as customers finish off collections as a priority. GW happy, customers happy.
As it is, you get a weeks notice that all the stuff that has been out of stock for a month is disappearing.
What remains will be snapped up by eBayers who will successfully sell them at 3 times the price GW couldn't sell them at. To miniature collectors.
I think GW could afford to make a few less than optimal business moves that keep the fan base happy, loyal and spending money with GW for the rest of their lives.
They don't have any serious competition. Yet.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
To be fair, it's a hobby and a game, not an investment. The weird wall streetification of hobbies is obnoxious and does more harm than good. If you like the models, get the models, and find a way to play them. Nobody is gonna bat an eye if you bring your passion project to play at your LGS.
@@gregorycafiero9688 If it costs money, it's an investment. There is also such a thing as an emotional investment and GW are masters of working it into you at a young age.
I am considering collecting all of the Blood Bowl teams one by one each month. I am also mid way through an extremely expensive terrain project using Zone Mortalis terrain.
Now I will definitely not be starting the Blood Bowl project and will look for other ways to complete the terrain project I am mid way through.
Either one could be squatted by GW at any moment.
They are using this to pressure customers into a 'Buy Now!' psychology and they know it's aimed at kids.
Look I'm all for prudent business management but GW are way over the line into manipulation and abuse of it's customers and this is all targeted at kids first and foremost.
No for alot of people it's a game & an investment. Many people buy pre-painted armies to play the game strictly competitivly. Now their investments are squatted.
I do like the term everyone uses for it is something that recently got it's support again, which kinda underlines how silly all of this really is.
About the stormcasts not selling; I think it was in big part down to bad rules, and bad rules made no one want to invest. It’s like the gorgeous angel lady from the 3.0 start box; she was just so bad no one wanted her
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I wanna bring a beam of light about Aventis: one of my friends takes him in most of his lists since he started playing AoS in 3rd ed. He just loves this guy so much and it's like his staple even if he does not so much in games
That’s really cool!
The problem is GW didn't anticipate that there's a non-monetary cost to this. Yes, producing an unprofitable item isn't ideal from a business perspective, but it does earn you another valuable currency in the consumer space that IS crucial to continuing success: Trust. Which can lead to money in the overall even if that item isn't profitable.
Buying into a hobby like miniature wargaming is expensive and time consuming. It's fun, of course, but it's not like say... buying an action figure. It's much more expensive, much much more effort on the consumer's part, and in order to be worth that extra money and effort, there has to be trust that it will be rewarded.
If you keep selling a product that isn't selling super hot, then I, as a consumer, am confident my purchases will be backed up for years to come. Sure you're making less money on that one product... but you're making more money overall because I can look at that thing and say 'okay well if that's around - even if it's mostly just on store shelves and warehouses taking up a little space and not being actively manufactured - and think "Okay, even though my faction is a bit niche, it's less niche than that, and if that's still around then I know my investment is safe."
It's like a stock except instead of putting in money in the hope of getting more money out, you put in money in the hope to get fun out - and now they've made the fun stock feel way more volatile.
My Hedonites of Slaanesh no longer feel perfectly safe, even if their updates may be minimal - now they feel like they could be chopped and my wonderful bisexual genderfluid dance party/army could evaporate in 5e cause it wasn't selling enough. Or because some exec decided they didn't like the look of them. (Never forget, just because sales may be the biggest thing, it doesn't mean petty vindictiveness can't also be a factor - I've seen entire MMOs that were quietly profitable killed off over that kind of thing.)
In short - GW now needs to justify itself to me. GW needs to explain why I would continue to invest my time and money into their products when I can play other, arguably better balanced, wargames with cheap 3d printed minis.
Basically I invested into GW because GW, while far from flawless, has generally been pretty safe and does produce very good quality minis, and has a built in fanbase that makes finding games a little easier. But now that you've hurt my trust, you've made me seriously question if I should continue to invest or if it's better to try to build something less centralized, elsewhere.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies It's OK, and I hope you understand I'm not angry with you. I just feel it's important that it be understood there's another side the equation you know?
I have used firestrike in a 1 day tournament last year, she was a beautiful model with good rules. I have a picture of her on the tabletop......oooh rare
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
@@MediocreHobbies I only mentioned it to highlight that although beautiful, the lack of use in game is what killed most of what went.
@@telboysrantsandbants4077 agreed 100%
I think you make fair points that show part of the reason the decisions were made. Ultimately, I think it’s not going to set a good precedent and people are right to be upset. The reasons even in the most generous interpretation will make customers less confident in buying future products.
I think it’s awesome that you steelmanned the opposing view on the topic and I hope people don’t bring too much hate your way.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Some Minis like Aventis Firestrike or the Prosecutors, I am sure, did not sell well, because the rules were crappy. They were basically unplayable in matched play. This could be fixed easily.
You would be surprised
Stormcasts were the "sell" for the game, push push push. Retiring this many Stormcast this early is insulting. To use a real-life example of someone online videoing, he has $3500 of Stormcast. $2500 of it has been removed from GW play. That's a LOT of money to throw away. Or has he bitingly satirically put it, "it's really $2500 of opportunity. All I need now is another $2500".
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Such an underrated video well done, dude!
This is exactly what I've been thinking if they we're selling, they wouldn't be going people just like to hate GW.
I'm proper gutted about the warcry warbands I much preferred chaos vs chaos of the first edition.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I think one of the issues here is the idea of people's existing collection of models being "invalid" for play, and so, if they want to keep playing, they have to buy a new army. I think this idea comes from the switch from firstborn to Primaris marines where Primaris, instead of being simply new designs of space marines, were presented as being different space marines, with different rules. Therefore there's the idea that you can't use old firstborn tactical marines as new Primaris intercessors. I think this is the key idea that we have to knock on the head. "Counts-as" should be something that is fine in any type of game, whether that is tournament or casual play, as long as it isn't confusing for the other player, and so old firstborn marines with bolters should be able to "count-as" new primaris marines with bolters.
And the same applies to whatever stormcast eternal models/units have been discontinued - let people play with their existing collection of models, and make reasonable and liberal use of "counts-as".
They're only invalid if you take part in Warhammer events, and that's a very very tiny % of customers. Lots of tournaments allow proxies etc.
I kind of feel like dropping AoS.
Now i have a fair amount of models that get removed from my army, but at least its not the 2100 Australian Dollars going into the bin i have seen on 1 video. Thats a hefty price to be simply thrown into the bin imo.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Does this mean the Vanguard Stormcast are still good sellers as they somehow managed to dodge the bullet? So did the disspossesed which bewilders me also...
The only chaos warband i think is harsh leaving is the horns of hashut as they're practically brand new.
The Vanguard Chamber minis are also pretty distinctive from the other Chambers.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Bring those Beastie Bois on over to Kings of War. They're quite strong in that game and would require very little to get them on the table. Some movement trays to accommodate the round bases and off you go.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
As much as I understand & appreciate the business & storage end of the argument, it's not quite the same 1:1 here. Like your analogies to other business like lower selling lines of clothing, brand of snack foods, etc whatever...the difference is those consumer goods are not sold or promised as things that will "always be viable/always be playable or usable" in the system within which you're purchasing things like that. You know clothes won't last forever and go out of style, consumables get...well...consumed, and then are gone. GW sells armies under the pretense that, yes they're pretty expensive for unbuilt, unpainted plastic...but then you'll always have them for your army & you'll always be able to use them. If anything, since this is CLEARLY not the case, then they need to be more upfront with consumers (especially newer players) about the fact that once you buy all these boxes and spend all the time & effort on them, we could just yank & retire them/render them obsolete at any point...and not even for balance or rules reasons, just simply because there's a couple more bucks to be made elsewhere. If they were more honest about this, it'd be much less "feels-bad". Of course they won't do this, because putting that disclaimer on their expensive boxes of grey plastic would result in FAR fewer sales, so, that's why I think it ends up looking shady & dishonest to so many people
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I understand your point but the ability to play older rules/editions of the games never goes away. Outside of the tournament scene, it is the choice of the player to only play these games with the latest rules and guidelines, models never go out of date and can always be used. The wider problem is that western society is obsessed with 'the new'.
The aventus kit makes a generic character version, which wasnt removed. You can just play him as the generic version.
Hmmm I hope that’s true but I think the kit is being removed.
I think GW could be more elegant about this stuff, I suppose. Some other games I have played had one or two datasheets which could be used to represent multiple models, with the right wargear options. This could be something for the Stormcast. For the Beasts of Chaos… “business logic” has no reason to find sympathy in the individual here, I think. Arcane Journal style products for situations like this would help (talking about the physical style of them). Like a more legitimate Legends, even if the rules are bad. Bit rambley, sorry.
I think the way they went about it was the best way of doing it. Just here are the facts and rip the band aid off. Other companies have done similar stuff and in worse ways. Regardless though the situation sucks and there's no right way of announcing this sorta news that makes it easier or elegant. This is coming from someone who plays S2D 😢
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I play 40k rather than AoS, so this didn't directly affect me. That said, I had plans to buy a contemptor Dreadnought for my Chaos Marines the weekend before they were announced as being sent to legends for 40k, and when I got to my local game store, they had a couple of other boxes that had been out of stock for months so I decided to get those first. If I had bought that Dreadnought I would have been super mad. We just had a few weeks warning before it went to legends. AoS players are getting over a year.
I absolutely get being bummed about losing them, especially if they're your main army, but at least you know that you need to buy any you want as display pieces now, and you are up against the clock to use them. At least this time around there's advance notice. That's a massive step in the right direction.
Thanks man, completely agree. Feels like they tried to announce ahead of time for a change and people still don’t like it. Oh well.
Aventis is my favorite Stormcast Model
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
If my WS bikers and Sacrosanct weren't selling then the main reason for it was bad rules. GW, after people got their Sacrosanct armies , nerfed the bejesus out of them . And then they did NOTHING to fix the units which would have improved the sales. 10th w40k and 4th AoS taught me an important lesson . Clearly collecting an army over 3-4years is not the way to go. The only way to do it is to buy stuff in 1-3 months fet 6-12 months of plwying out of it and buy a new army. Also legal for friedly play means nothing in all parts of europe where legend means not accepted to play against.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Its funny you say that only the Tzeench stuff is taken for BoC, because I don't own anything Tzeench. Only recently got the Slaangor because I have HoS. My army was....gors...gors...gors...ungors...ungor raiders...bullgors. Then you know, the good ol' Cockatrice battle chicken sculpt and a gargant. It works well. Swarm em and make em fight last!
Yours is the army I alway want to play when I hear beastmen. It’s the way I see them in my head and the way I love them. Shake were the minority.
It would reduce the sting slightly if they would discount any models going away. Big box stores discount stock they want to discontinue and get rid of. Does GW just throw them out or send them to a recycler so they can claim a financial loss?
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
i have one aos army and that is stormcast ethernals my hole army is now gone, best thing it can become is legends. i did spent lot off money on it and now my army isnt playeble at tournements
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I'm new to the hobby and I was sad that I was missing out on Age of Sigmar and didn't know what to buy. But since you really liked the Aventis I found one on ebay and got it. I don't care about stats and tournaments. If I think the model is cool I'll make it cool on my table. I play alone. So I can make up any stats I want. :)
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I can understand from a marketing point of view what GW is trying to do, except for warcry, that's a bit confusing as to why. As for SE...I've been playing SE from the start and have also been more of a collector/painter with these units. I have nearly all the models except for a chosen few and i still think it's sad that all those years of spending money on them is now left as useless pieces, decorating my shelves. But luckily, i also play a lot of One Page Rules, which does not care what models i put down on the table, so, i think i will stick to OPR for now. I admit i love the look of the new models but i try to resist buying them haha. Thanks for the video.
I’m hoping the warcry bit gets explained further too!
No models are useless, no one is taking them away from you-you can still play them, just not in tournaments which is only a fraction of the customer base. You can still get a lot more enjoyment out of them. Thanks for the comment man
Thank you for your thoughts. I really would like it if GW embraced 3d printing in house and looked at picking up 2 or 3 commercial grade machines so they can offer a print on demand service for in an ideal world 100% of the back catalog.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
Great video! Great insight! Thank you!
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
My issue is this; I got into AoS last year, I do actually enjoy the setting and I think it gets too much hate. To start I got the BoC vanguard box and beastlord for my army which equalled about 750 points. I did this because I specifically want/might still want to have at least 1 force for every warhammer game except for a few. I got into dwarfs not long before with the specific idea in mind that they would be my old world army, and now it feels like I'm getting kicked out of a game I just started.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversation. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everyone agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
What about a true made to order system on the website where we can order older kits and get them 3-6 months later. They wouldn’t be sitting in a warehouse and people could still get them.
Not a bad idea!
Thank you for your opinion and for me it’s clarification. Whether I like it or not it’s sound and logical. Thanks.
Appreciate the comment man, that’s all I wanted to do with this video, offer an explanation!
The tauralon was a beautiful kit ruined by a terrible head. That was the overriding conversation when the kit first appeared. There was lots of talk about converting but most people including myself just didn't bother. Also now we have dragons including the Awesome Ionus model which Aventis could make a decent proxy for.
Thank you for commenting and being a part of the conversion. I hope I came across the way I intended. And I’m sure not everybody agrees and that’s ok. It’s not an easy thing to talk about or deal with. It’s never a fun thing losing models or armies. Can’t wait to see what the future holds.
I don’t play AOS, and won’t now for sure, but I really feel for players over this screw over,
Thanks for the comment man
I know I've made a couple comments in here, but I keep finding new ones I disagree with. Skaven are not being completely replaced, it's not even majorly, the most that will be replaced is 10 models, they're removing 18 so you're closer to half. Also they're removing the support for the underworld characters I literally just bought two boxes like 4 months ago 3 months ago, they will not be supported in age of sigmar pisses me off
It’s perfectly okay to not be happy. This video is about why things are happening, I’m not agreeing with anything.