Where in my eyes, Warhammer is this wonderful weave of history, ideas, stories laid bare for people to see; OPR is this MASSIVE SUPER MEGA canvas that's yet to be splashed on with nothing more than the theme name on the top corner for a small army of people to dig into. Warhammer lore is fire! OPR is so exciting to be in it on the ground floor.
Warhammer is entertainment - you sit back and let the show entertain you. OPR is this hippie/rave festival - it might not be perfect and lacking a lot but somehow you get this feeling of freedom and unity with people like you.
I am using OPR Gang War to set up a Notcromunda campaign, taking advantage of it NOT being Necromunda. Several hive cities, linked by roads on the surface and tunnels below. One city fallen, Ratmen in the ruins of the fallen spire, Jackals in the wastes between cities, and Soulstealer Cults hiding in all. Quick, dirty, and should be fun.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Ok, looking around I found it on the Wargames extension of DriveThruRpg and seems to be a number of add-on optional rules to go full Necromunda with Firefight - campaign play, a number of “you’re having a gunfight in a Hive, here’s a few ways to make collateral damage interesting” ideas, a few “how to make a faction” ideas and so on. Not strictly necessary, but if you want them, they are there. Same as GDF’s extended rulebook.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming An expansion on Firefight - adding territories, expanded injuries, campaign rules, critical hits, scavenging and exploration, and other rules to have something like Necromunda with the Grimdark Firefight rules.. The warbands are on Armyforge - Gangs of New Eden. The gangs are SMALL - only one hero, 200 points. Gang Wars is Wargames Vault - $5.
For the record, 40k and Warhammer in general started as knock offs of succesful scifi and fantasy stories - from Michael Moorcock's Eternal Hero to Dune to inquisitor Sherlock Obi Wan Clouseau. There's hope for OPR
yeah WH40k has stolen its stuff from other places too, thats why all the armies got renamed, just so games workshop can copyright the names. they have no leg to stand on against OPR
40K Rogue Trader was basically a mashup of Tolkienesque fantasy races, all the current strips running in 2000 AD, Dune , and Star Wars. That said, the universe that sprung from it is very popular. I wouldn't argue that 40k isn't inspiring for many people. I would say GW's rule are almost all impossible for casual and new players to master. And the rules are calculated to sell models - playability doesn't even enter into their game design. OPR is much more approachable.
That's one reason I really like OPR lore is because, well, it's barely there! I can make up whatever crazy stuff I want and not have to worry 40k lore bits from 20 years ago in an obscure book letting a guy online tell me I'm " doing it wrong". Now I know that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things and I can still play the way I want, but it does make for a community where story telling feels better and has more freedom. I've taken part in the writing jam and it's great.
The good thing is that we can transport the lore and just play another rule set. I do this all the time with RPGs, e. g. playing in Conan's world with the Hyperborea rules, or using 40K elements in my Traveller campaign alongside Twilight Imperium, Iain Banks' Culture, and the Jodoverse (like Dune, Incal, etc.).
What I enjoy most about OPR is being able to customize and build my own lore. Right now I’m working on a custom space marine army that’s vampires with elite squads of werewolves with chaplains as principle hero figures. It’s been fun to create my own lore (of sorts) with rationales for alliances and the like. Plus, that feature for crossing over and combining army types? *Chef’s kiss*
I'm all about custom lore. My lore is based around a mashup of Star Gate, Starship Troopers, Terminator, Aliens, and Predator. It's called Beyond the Gate: Alien Wars.
It's funny how both of the OPR "new" factions are just Tau. There's no Kroot in the DAO union so I use Jackals for those, and my friend plays his battle suit squad as ONI since they're more sword gundams and less shooty. (And Tau are the solidly Japanese 40k faction, memes about it forever)
OPR was a rage quit so the slim lore makes sense but they are getting big enough to start improving it. I ant to remember that they are working on their first book. One benefit with some improved lore would be that they cold work on better army & unit names. Some kind of gallery would be good though, I sometimes get uncertain what model I should/could use as a good proxy.
On the topic of books that inspired an army. There was a book of short stories GW put out. It was hit and miss, but one of the more memorable ones was about a Leman Russ with duel autocannons (I forget the name of the variant) stuck behind enemy lines, and for a while I'd pick that variant when playing Dawn of War.
I like world crafting and creation my own lore for campaigns, it's much easier for people to get onboard with this if it's not actually 40k. Plus OPR has the Army Studio where you can customize and build your own units. My current campaign is based around a mashup of Star Gate, Starship Troopers, Terminator, Aliens, and Predator. It's called Beyond the Gate: Alien Wars.
I doubt anyone who switched over to OPR switched because of lore. It's kind of ridiculous to compare the two. OPR doesn't exist to fill the void of GWs lore, it fills the void of GW's crap rules, period.
It's kind of a huge positive for me because I've really gotten sick of Warhammer 40k lore. I read a lot of science fiction, there are a lot of great settings and great stories out there from writers way better than the ones on GW staff. Wargaming to me is wargaming, I don't care to hear about 40k lore every time, I'd rather play with a group that creates their own narrative similar to how I've played tabletop RPGs in the past ( D&D rules but not int he forgotten realms, or even something like D20 Future where the lore pretty much doesn't exist and it's just a ruleset ).
I understand that. The reason I included it is because I want the series to be a complete comparison of every aspect of both systems, which means including the lore too. I agree, nobody goes to OPR for the lore, but if you jump to a great ruleset that's in a colorless and void universe it's a bit of a letdown. Right now I find OPR rules and 40k world to be everything I need.
I switched because of the system AND the lore. I hate everything about 40k tbh. I only played because that's what my friends played. I was so happy when they finally abandoned GW. We now have fun narrative campaigns free from the constraints that come with GW lore.
One thing I like about GDF is that it feels very much like Rogue Trader did before the full expansion of their immersive universe. Anything could happen and some stuff isn't out because of lore reasons.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming I still have all Bretonnians from that box. The Terrain got missing over the time though :( And i am not sure but there is a chance that i still have the Lizardmen lying around somewhere.
A number of years ago I had a conversation with a Stargrunt II player about space samurai, and a few weeks later he showed up with some Star Trek Klingons and said those were close enough. lol Now that I think about it, I should've asked what mini line they were from.
Love the videos, but did want to comment that the GW Tau faction are effectively Japanese/Anime based. Not a one to one copy like the space wolves, but near enough that it's a thing. Regardless, great videos, and I look forward to more!
I honestly just use the Warhammer lore with OPR. I just base my army and unit choices on lore friendly options for the armies I’m building. Works pretty well. Edited to add: another question would be to ask if the fans/players really want OPR to develop their own deep lore. Personally I’m a bit ambiguous. But I’m also interested in writing something for them just to see what can be done.
The 'Not-Squats' and 'Space-Skaven' are actually based more on the armies from Mantic Games 😉 OPR did it for both GDF and AoF, so if you want to field your Mantic Games Plague army against GW's Eldar you totally can. Great series you're making here, I'll defiently check out the rest of your channel 🙂
Funny your should mention that. I needed a drill transport for my Dwarf Guilds army and the Ratman drill from Mantic was perfect. It will be appearing in a batrep in the near future.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming OPR's pretty generic to allow that. Even a good deal of cross-overs are possible 😉 If you want to add some Mantic armies to a fight: Rebel Guerillias= Rebs Ratmen Clans= Veer-Myn Infected colonies= Plague. Same goes for AoF: Shadowstalkers= Nightstalkers Kingdom of Angels= Basileans.
No question GW has decades of lore, and the apparatus to push out novels and the like. That being said, I particularly prefer that OPR lore finds more a middle ground between grimdark and high fantasy. I prefer that orcs and goblins in AOF are not just produced by spores, but have families, children and relationships. They have a different point of view/interests/motivations than the other factions, but they also have homes to defend and care about what place in the world their children will have. It opens up way more storylines about why they might fight or negotiate with all the other factions. I also like that beastmen and ratfolk are not inherently evil. In AOS/fantasy battle the lore is pretty clear you can't have a story about a skaven or ungor trying to set up a place in the world for thier people that does not entail wiping out the other factions.
OPR is good because nobody is gonna give you the evil eye if you pull out the Proxy Army models for the homebrew army list (ok, sure, competition may be an issue… for that end, it would be interesting if OPR ever made a tournament…). That is the cool thing. Honestly, could be cool if OPR went and added some more factions. Like Arbites stand ins that, well, yeah, can't do the Judge Dredd thing, so what about the hundred other sci-fi cops shows out there? Have one of the named heroes be this Robocop wannabe by way of “Iron Hand” Straken, their aerial attack vehicles look like Blue Thunder, maybe rules for water cannons which, yeah, they are not lethal, but they keep the enemy pinned down and open for flanking. Or, heck, screw it just being the police. How about a whole “emergency services” army? Grim Dark Rescue Heroes, fire trucks that carry laser cannons and firefighters beheading Orks with axes as they rush in to save people.
I’m not here for lore, 40K already has all the lore. I’m here for a rule set that my wife can actually understand so that she doesn’t loose interest after 1 and a half rounds of play. The story can be whatever you want. I need interesting and dynamic gameplay.
Yeah, it was a kick in the guts when GW dropped Fantasy. As you say, particularly because AoS was such a joke (not a funny one). I’m not a huge fan of the AoS setting. Too over the top, although GW seems to be trying to pull the realms in a more realistic(?) direction with the release of Cities. I enjoy the 40k lore and fiction, but that aspect of the game has no impact on my interest in OPR. I’m not looking to replace the 40k setting or models, just the game rules.
The best part of OPR is the alternate activation system Really hope someday GW will do the same (the last kill team does it and it is good) I will perhaps come back to 40k when they do so
If I were going to create a slightly alternative setting for 40k/OPR, I’d have the Emperor still actively engaged, the Imperial government less overtly corrupt, people’s lives less of a living hell, in general. In essence, a setting where you actually have one or more “good guys”. As opposed to just bad guys and even worse guys.
Interesting that you say that, because to me it feels like older 40k was a world of bad guys and lesser bad guys, while the newer 40k pushes the imperium as good guys who occasionally have to do bad things and everyone else is bad because they aren't part of the empire.
One of the best things about OPR IS the lack of fluff. You can literally just take all your armies from the 40k universe and play 40k using OPR's rules and not have to worry about all the nerfing shenanigans and lack of balancing from the get go, and best of all, NOT shell out hundreds of dollars on books that are LITERALLY obsolete the moment you get them.
Why do I need to pay GW money to read stories of existing myths and legends but with bolters. Ive read every single Eldar book, and the lore is fluffy, but there is a huge disconnect between the lore and the game. Honestly I hope OPR takes after Battletech Shrapnels magazine. Its 400 pages of half professional and half fan written stories with some missions and templates thrown in. Feels more 'hobby' to me then being spoonfed the GW universe.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming That is what I meant the original release was so fun as just a beer and pretzel game. I was so disillusioned with Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I got into it really late just days after the 8th Edition release of the Lizardmen Army Book. I spent about 2,000$ for this huge army played it maybe 15 times and didn't even get close to winning a game they just seemed so underpowered. I then got a Dark Elf army and again about a dozen games without a single win. I picked up a Britionion army for the looks not even realizing they would never get a book release and only played them once to realize they couldn't compete. My final army was a Warriors of Chaos army, and while I had my best game I still lost so over a twoish year time frame up to the end times I sunk about 4,000 to 5,000$ in to a game I never even won a single time. Then AoS happened and we were all put on the same playing field I felt. I didn't mind no points if we wanted balance we would just say hey I'm brining 10 units so your limited to 10 units as well. And rules like For the Lady, or Old Grumblers were just so fun to play we had a blast and for that first year it became my number 1 game played.
Where in my eyes, Warhammer is this wonderful weave of history, ideas, stories laid bare for people to see; OPR is this MASSIVE SUPER MEGA canvas that's yet to be splashed on with nothing more than the theme name on the top corner for a small army of people to dig into.
Warhammer lore is fire! OPR is so exciting to be in it on the ground floor.
Warhammer is entertainment - you sit back and let the show entertain you. OPR is this hippie/rave festival - it might not be perfect and lacking a lot but somehow you get this feeling of freedom and unity with people like you.
@@tomaspuodziukynas5361And if you show up with a project you want to show off, _someone_ is gonna get hype over it.
I am using OPR Gang War to set up a Notcromunda campaign, taking advantage of it NOT being Necromunda.
Several hive cities, linked by roads on the surface and tunnels below.
One city fallen, Ratmen in the ruins of the fallen spire, Jackals in the wastes between cities, and Soulstealer Cults hiding in all.
Quick, dirty, and should be fun.
OPR Gang War?
How is that? It isn't covered under the Patreon freebies. Are the rules that different from Firefight?
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Ok, looking around I found it on the Wargames extension of DriveThruRpg and seems to be a number of add-on optional rules to go full Necromunda with Firefight - campaign play, a number of “you’re having a gunfight in a Hive, here’s a few ways to make collateral damage interesting” ideas, a few “how to make a faction” ideas and so on. Not strictly necessary, but if you want them, they are there. Same as GDF’s extended rulebook.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming A Gang Wars battle report - th-cam.com/video/bzSYLbuXCJE/w-d-xo.html
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming An expansion on Firefight - adding territories, expanded injuries, campaign rules, critical hits, scavenging and exploration, and other rules to have something like Necromunda with the Grimdark Firefight rules..
The warbands are on Armyforge - Gangs of New Eden.
The gangs are SMALL - only one hero, 200 points.
Gang Wars is Wargames Vault - $5.
For the record, 40k and Warhammer in general started as knock offs of succesful scifi and fantasy stories - from Michael Moorcock's Eternal Hero to Dune to inquisitor Sherlock Obi Wan Clouseau. There's hope for OPR
True! The videogame company Blizzard STOLE alot from Warhammer for Warcraft and Starcraft and they become one of the biggest games at the time
Excellent point. I can't believe I forgot about that. I even read some Moorcock because I wanted to see what inspired 40k.
I've heard that too. Makes sense for the 'Nids. Were the Protoss at least original?
yeah WH40k has stolen its stuff from other places too, thats why all the armies got renamed, just so games workshop can copyright the names. they have no leg to stand on against OPR
40K Rogue Trader was basically a mashup of Tolkienesque fantasy races, all the current strips running in 2000 AD, Dune , and Star Wars. That said, the universe that sprung from it is very popular. I wouldn't argue that 40k isn't inspiring for many people. I would say GW's rule are almost all impossible for casual and new players to master. And the rules are calculated to sell models - playability doesn't even enter into their game design. OPR is much more approachable.
That's one reason I really like OPR lore is because, well, it's barely there! I can make up whatever crazy stuff I want and not have to worry 40k lore bits from 20 years ago in an obscure book letting a guy online tell me I'm " doing it wrong". Now I know that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things and I can still play the way I want, but it does make for a community where story telling feels better and has more freedom. I've taken part in the writing jam and it's great.
The good thing is that we can transport the lore and just play another rule set. I do this all the time with RPGs, e. g. playing in Conan's world with the Hyperborea rules, or using 40K elements in my Traveller campaign alongside Twilight Imperium, Iain Banks' Culture, and the Jodoverse (like Dune, Incal, etc.).
What I enjoy most about OPR is being able to customize and build my own lore. Right now I’m working on a custom space marine army that’s vampires with elite squads of werewolves with chaplains as principle hero figures. It’s been fun to create my own lore (of sorts) with rationales for alliances and the like. Plus, that feature for crossing over and combining army types? *Chef’s kiss*
This is exactly the kind of thing I figured people would do with OPR. Badass. 🤘
I'm all about custom lore.
My lore is based around a mashup of Star Gate, Starship Troopers, Terminator, Aliens, and Predator. It's called Beyond the Gate: Alien Wars.
It's funny how both of the OPR "new" factions are just Tau. There's no Kroot in the DAO union so I use Jackals for those, and my friend plays his battle suit squad as ONI since they're more sword gundams and less shooty. (And Tau are the solidly Japanese 40k faction, memes about it forever)
OPR was a rage quit so the slim lore makes sense but they are getting big enough to start improving it. I ant to remember that they are working on their first book.
One benefit with some improved lore would be that they cold work on better army & unit names.
Some kind of gallery would be good though, I sometimes get uncertain what model I should/could use as a good proxy.
On the topic of books that inspired an army. There was a book of short stories GW put out. It was hit and miss, but one of the more memorable ones was about a Leman Russ with duel autocannons (I forget the name of the variant) stuck behind enemy lines, and for a while I'd pick that variant when playing Dawn of War.
I like world crafting and creation my own lore for campaigns, it's much easier for people to get onboard with this if it's not actually 40k. Plus OPR has the Army Studio where you can customize and build your own units.
My current campaign is based around a mashup of Star Gate, Starship Troopers, Terminator, Aliens, and Predator. It's called Beyond the Gate: Alien Wars.
I doubt anyone who switched over to OPR switched because of lore. It's kind of ridiculous to compare the two. OPR doesn't exist to fill the void of GWs lore, it fills the void of GW's crap rules, period.
It's kind of a huge positive for me because I've really gotten sick of Warhammer 40k lore. I read a lot of science fiction, there are a lot of great settings and great stories out there from writers way better than the ones on GW staff. Wargaming to me is wargaming, I don't care to hear about 40k lore every time, I'd rather play with a group that creates their own narrative similar to how I've played tabletop RPGs in the past ( D&D rules but not int he forgotten realms, or even something like D20 Future where the lore pretty much doesn't exist and it's just a ruleset ).
I understand that. The reason I included it is because I want the series to be a complete comparison of every aspect of both systems, which means including the lore too. I agree, nobody goes to OPR for the lore, but if you jump to a great ruleset that's in a colorless and void universe it's a bit of a letdown. Right now I find OPR rules and 40k world to be everything I need.
I switched because of the system AND the lore. I hate everything about 40k tbh. I only played because that's what my friends played. I was so happy when they finally abandoned GW. We now have fun narrative campaigns free from the constraints that come with GW lore.
One thing I like about GDF is that it feels very much like Rogue Trader did before the full expansion of their immersive universe. Anything could happen and some stuff isn't out because of lore reasons.
10:00 Bretonnia. I started with the same box as you did.
14:30 they did that because they also wnated to attract players of Mantics Warpath
I have fond memories of that box set. I still have one of the lizardmen. I had to keep something.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming I still have all Bretonnians from that box. The Terrain got missing over the time though :( And i am not sure but there is a chance that i still have the Lizardmen lying around somewhere.
A number of years ago I had a conversation with a Stargrunt II player about space samurai, and a few weeks later he showed up with some Star Trek Klingons and said those were close enough. lol
Now that I think about it, I should've asked what mini line they were from.
Love the videos, but did want to comment that the GW Tau faction are effectively Japanese/Anime based. Not a one to one copy like the space wolves, but near enough that it's a thing. Regardless, great videos, and I look forward to more!
True, and that's a good point, but OPR has both the DAO and the Eternal Dynasty, so you've got both samurai theme and Gundam. Best of both worlds.
Thanks for the reply!
That is very true, and something to consider now that I'm moving away from 40k and into OPR.
I honestly just use the Warhammer lore with OPR. I just base my army and unit choices on lore friendly options for the armies I’m building.
Works pretty well.
Edited to add: another question would be to ask if the fans/players really want OPR to develop their own deep lore. Personally I’m a bit ambiguous. But I’m also interested in writing something for them just to see what can be done.
The 'Not-Squats' and 'Space-Skaven' are actually based more on the armies from Mantic Games 😉
OPR did it for both GDF and AoF, so if you want to field your Mantic Games Plague army against GW's Eldar you totally can.
Great series you're making here, I'll defiently check out the rest of your channel 🙂
Funny your should mention that. I needed a drill transport for my Dwarf Guilds army and the Ratman drill from Mantic was perfect. It will be appearing in a batrep in the near future.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming OPR's pretty generic to allow that.
Even a good deal of cross-overs are possible 😉
If you want to add some Mantic armies to a fight:
Rebel Guerillias= Rebs
Ratmen Clans= Veer-Myn
Infected colonies= Plague.
Same goes for AoF:
Shadowstalkers= Nightstalkers
Kingdom of Angels= Basileans.
No question GW has decades of lore, and the apparatus to push out novels and the like. That being said, I particularly prefer that OPR lore finds more a middle ground between grimdark and high fantasy. I prefer that orcs and goblins in AOF are not just produced by spores, but have families, children and relationships. They have a different point of view/interests/motivations than the other factions, but they also have homes to defend and care about what place in the world their children will have. It opens up way more storylines about why they might fight or negotiate with all the other factions. I also like that beastmen and ratfolk are not inherently evil. In AOS/fantasy battle the lore is pretty clear you can't have a story about a skaven or ungor trying to set up a place in the world for thier people that does not entail wiping out the other factions.
Subbed for the OPR content!
Tomorrow morning another OPR batrep will magically appear!
OPR is good because nobody is gonna give you the evil eye if you pull out the Proxy Army models for the homebrew army list (ok, sure, competition may be an issue… for that end, it would be interesting if OPR ever made a tournament…). That is the cool thing. Honestly, could be cool if OPR went and added some more factions. Like Arbites stand ins that, well, yeah, can't do the Judge Dredd thing, so what about the hundred other sci-fi cops shows out there? Have one of the named heroes be this Robocop wannabe by way of “Iron Hand” Straken, their aerial attack vehicles look like Blue Thunder, maybe rules for water cannons which, yeah, they are not lethal, but they keep the enemy pinned down and open for flanking.
Or, heck, screw it just being the police. How about a whole “emergency services” army? Grim Dark Rescue Heroes, fire trucks that carry laser cannons and firefighters beheading Orks with axes as they rush in to save people.
I’m not here for lore, 40K already has all the lore.
I’m here for a rule set that my wife can actually understand so that she doesn’t loose interest after 1 and a half rounds of play.
The story can be whatever you want. I need interesting and dynamic gameplay.
Yeah, it was a kick in the guts when GW dropped Fantasy. As you say, particularly because AoS was such a joke (not a funny one). I’m not a huge fan of the AoS setting. Too over the top, although GW seems to be trying to pull the realms in a more realistic(?) direction with the release of Cities. I enjoy the 40k lore and fiction, but that aspect of the game has no impact on my interest in OPR. I’m not looking to replace the 40k setting or models, just the game rules.
OPR 1000%. Cooler more unique factions being added and they’re making lore books.
The best part of OPR is the alternate activation system
Really hope someday GW will do the same (the last kill team does it and it is good) I will perhaps come back to 40k when they do so
If I were going to create a slightly alternative setting for 40k/OPR, I’d have the Emperor still actively engaged, the Imperial government less overtly corrupt, people’s lives less of a living hell, in general. In essence, a setting where you actually have one or more “good guys”. As opposed to just bad guys and even worse guys.
Interesting that you say that, because to me it feels like older 40k was a world of bad guys and lesser bad guys, while the newer 40k pushes the imperium as good guys who occasionally have to do bad things and everyone else is bad because they aren't part of the empire.
Eternal Dynasty is clearly an alternate tau equivalent
One of the best things about OPR IS the lack of fluff. You can literally just take all your armies from the 40k universe and play 40k using OPR's rules and not have to worry about all the nerfing shenanigans and lack of balancing from the get go, and best of all, NOT shell out hundreds of dollars on books that are LITERALLY obsolete the moment you get them.
Yes, this!
Yep, that's what I've found to be literally the best of both worlds.
Aren't the Tau the japanese army? The suits like gundam, but also how the fire warriors look like ashigaru
Yeah, but nothing really samurai like, except maybe Farsight.
OPR has space rats and space lizards, warhammer skittle marines can't beat that!
Why do I need to pay GW money to read stories of existing myths and legends but with bolters. Ive read every single Eldar book, and the lore is fluffy, but there is a huge disconnect between the lore and the game. Honestly I hope OPR takes after Battletech Shrapnels magazine. Its 400 pages of half professional and half fan written stories with some missions and templates thrown in. Feels more 'hobby' to me then being spoonfed the GW universe.
There are no samurai. Best you have is Tau which have no swords whatsoever.
Tau definitely have a Japanese influence, especially when you hear the voice acting in DoW. There is one sword though - Farsight.
Any time anyone tells me Age of Sigmar was a terrible game tells me you have never just played a game to have fun!
It was only terrible in the initial release. After than I had lots of fun with it and only dropped off interest in the latest rendition.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming That is what I meant the original release was so fun as just a beer and pretzel game. I was so disillusioned with Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I got into it really late just days after the 8th Edition release of the Lizardmen Army Book. I spent about 2,000$ for this huge army played it maybe 15 times and didn't even get close to winning a game they just seemed so underpowered. I then got a Dark Elf army and again about a dozen games without a single win. I picked up a Britionion army for the looks not even realizing they would never get a book release and only played them once to realize they couldn't compete. My final army was a Warriors of Chaos army, and while I had my best game I still lost so over a twoish year time frame up to the end times I sunk about 4,000 to 5,000$ in to a game I never even won a single time. Then AoS happened and we were all put on the same playing field I felt. I didn't mind no points if we wanted balance we would just say hey I'm brining 10 units so your limited to 10 units as well. And rules like For the Lady, or Old Grumblers were just so fun to play we had a blast and for that first year it became my number 1 game played.
40 K lore has become so childish. It makes me want to puke. Back in the 90s it was dark as F