I know that Laerneans have the Line special rule, I just don't see a huge deal of value in a line unit which has all short-range weapons to camp an objective, I suppose if they are in the enemy deployment zone they can be an objective capping pest, but I can't figure out what this unit wants to be. Do they want to be a close-range assault scoring unit with terminator armour? They'll lose a fight to conventional Tartarus. Do they want to hold objectives in the mid-field? They're armed exclusively with short-range firepower unless you upgrade two of them (and pay the over 500 points for the unit with power axes and two culverins?). They just don't fill any niche, even if you use them to hold backline objectives in your own deployment zone, unless the enemy comes to you, serving up units on a silver platter, something you'd be a fool to expect, I don't see them achieving much there either. Bizarre unit.
The one thing I've had them do well in was backline objective camping with c-beamer to surprisingly good effect. Think that was just down to enemy mis-plays, though, can think of plenty of ways to ruin it.
I suggest normal units, when you cannot go toe to toe with other legions, why try and do it? Max out on cheaper legion terminators, get some headhunters for multi-melta sniper shenanigans, use range to keep yourself in range of them by an inch or two, so they cannot shoot back.
Laerneans look nice and I agree that the rules are meh for them. I would rather them have the Banestrike combi-bolters than volkite chargers. I do have a question though, if they changed the Laerneans to have the ability to mimic 1 terminator unit but they are required to keep their current loadout do you think they would be worth it? Otherwise thank you for the video.
@@DemonAce18 - That's an interesting idea. There's a DA special character (forgot his name) that let's you mimic a warlord trait from select other legions, so there is precedent for such a rule. Laemeans were supposed to be scary, leaving no witnesses. Hardly something conveyed with their profile.
So basically, they were short on the tactical viability in the last edition due to the power creep and the new edition has not improved them. A shame for a really cool looking unit that would have fit really nicely with the chataphractii terminator praetor model that is cool too. Shame.
All the responding to drama is a bit boring. I wouldn't mind if Macca rose above it instead of engaging, but you can't get everything! Other than that, it's insightful and well thought out in regards to 30k. 5/5 digeridoodles, or what ever people pay with down under.
Me too though from what i have read the Thousand Sons isn´t the powerhouse they used to be. And a lot of the War Lord Traits isn´t as deadly as it once where. Guardian of the Crimson King was once very good, but since Terminators can no longer be scoring units... well they are kinda shit compared to regular terminators. Pride of the Legion is basically everything the the Crimson king build should have been. As for the Castellax-Achea Automata they are... okay...ish, but only because we haven´t gotten the Mechanicum rules yet (their versions of the Castellax might be a better choice). So it would seem that Thousand Sons might just the Alpha Legion requiring some skills to play and win with.
Of note the Laerneans have two wounds, three on the Harrower making IWND much more likely to be of use. The Hydran Exemplars rule also applies to shooting attacks as well.
Two-wounds is standard on all terminators, some even have three, but the It Will Not Die rule isn't crash hot on them, not as good as Feel No Pain, but it may result in one extra terminator at the end of the game, so it is something, I guess.
You should have mentioned that Headhunters are relentless, which means they can not only fire their heavy weapon in a turn they moved at full BF, they may also charge in a turn, in which they fired their rapid fire weapons. This might be useful considering the fact they all bear power daggers.
Really do appreciate channels like this. Because without people like you then new players wanting to get into a faction due to their theme and cool looking units and, as a result, spending quite a bit of money outright on them, only to then discover the not so great cons of said army which you may have accidentally built towards is not the greatest thing.
Headhunters can take combi weapons for cheaper than seekers have bs5 and infiltrate/scout so first turn plasma/melta kills... Then assault with daggers. No dissintegrators to my knowledge.
I understand that Coils of the Hydra let's you take up to 3 units from one legion. But I can't for the life of me find anywhere that says whether or not they can be different units. For example if I pick Dark Angels as my rewards of treachery unit, could I take a unit of Dreadwing Interemptors, a unit of Deathwing companions, and a unit of inner circle knights Cernobium? Or would I have to take 3 of the same of any of the options available?
Just getting into 30K and AL. I appreciate the great thoughts here. I'm thinking of leaning heavily into dreadnoughts, headhunters, Exodus, and recon squads as a base. The goal being to snipe things from a distance while harassing with multiple dreadnoughts.
One thing about the Power Dagger: It's lost Specialist Weapon. So it doesn't give +1 Attack if used with a Paragon Blade or Power Fist as it used to do.
Im disappointed by the removal of the special pick-a-trait legion rule as it was really fun. In the same regard, it sucks that vets lost the ability as well. Loved customizing them so much.
Really makes me happy that my Legion gets their part 2 first. Just out of curiosity, how would you recommend running the Headhunters in terms of wargear? I've decided to go with mass bolter fire to lean in hard on sniping characters, but, I haven't yet glued on the bolters and I noticed my force is lacking quite significantly in the anti-armor department.
I already have a lot of AL units at my disposal, might expand into Rewards of Treachery to give an excuse for making more conversions. I am bit bummed by the Lernaeans though, wish they would have made them WS5 and also given them something else instead of an otherwise misplaced and somewhat useless conversion beamer and maybe also give options for Thunder Hammers. But then ofc I can just grab a nice Termie unit from another legion and custom convert/make them off various bits as I like instead, so who knows.
I really don't understand why the Lerneans had to be WS4 when most Legion special Terminators have WS5. Also what does everyone feel is the preferrable Consuls for this legion?
Okay so I can take unit from another legion right. So if I take a 10 man squad of contenkar whom have the hq type, can I make them my warlord? They get the LA(alpha legion), so they can't join a character because that rule on them says they have to join a /night lords/character.
Caan someone teach me how you can take other legions units that have weapons which are not accessible to Alpha Legion? - The rule states that (x) becomes (Alpha Legion) which includes the sub rule - armoury of the alpha legion - removing the armoury option for their native legion. As far as I can see - this prevents the use of many, many units.
I read that the coils of the hydra everything except the RoT units must start off the table, doesn’t this make it basicly unusable since the RoT units will get wiped instantly in turn one?
I know, I just don't see a huge deal of value in a line unit which has all short-range weapons to camp an objective, I suppose if they are in the enemy deployment zone they can be an objective capping pest, but I can't figure out what they want to be.
@@TheOuterCircle gotcha, yea I don't have any yet and I want to get them, but like you've said their kinda in a weird spot. I'll probably just get 5 for rule of cool 👍🏻
You missed the important part of Lerneans - they're Line. Place these guys on a mid-field objective and your opponent will have a hard time wrestling that objective off you
I think you underestimate the value of redeploying 3 key units right before the battle begins. I dont think that smth that is so important in 40k could be so insignificant in HH games
Wait. What the fuck. The Lernaean Terminators can take a volkite CULVERIN??? That is crazy!! A: It blows my mind they give them options that never existed before, and don't currently have bits for. B: It sounds like these termies are positioned to be horde killers. Granted they are a way to expensive for that role to be worth it.
Seems pretty obvious alpha legion should have kept reserves manipulation if they lost all minor buffs they got to melee via Alpharius a loss decent rites of war. I'm all for high skill cap and challenge but Alpharius got butchered. Dorn stops everything below 4+ yet the pale spear can't be given wound anything on a 3+? The spear cuts through metal with ease
I'm committed to Alpha Legion but i feel like almost all their specialities are auper meh. Headhunter Killteams kind of underwhelming, Lerneans very overpriced and righta of war are really meh. Sad times.
I know that Laerneans have the Line special rule, I just don't see a huge deal of value in a line unit which has all short-range weapons to camp an objective, I suppose if they are in the enemy deployment zone they can be an objective capping pest, but I can't figure out what this unit wants to be. Do they want to be a close-range assault scoring unit with terminator armour? They'll lose a fight to conventional Tartarus. Do they want to hold objectives in the mid-field? They're armed exclusively with short-range firepower unless you upgrade two of them (and pay the over 500 points for the unit with power axes and two culverins?). They just don't fill any niche, even if you use them to hold backline objectives in your own deployment zone, unless the enemy comes to you, serving up units on a silver platter, something you'd be a fool to expect, I don't see them achieving much there either. Bizarre unit.
The one thing I've had them do well in was backline objective camping with c-beamer to surprisingly good effect. Think that was just down to enemy mis-plays, though, can think of plenty of ways to ruin it.
I suggest normal units, when you cannot go toe to toe with other legions, why try and do it? Max out on cheaper legion terminators, get some headhunters for multi-melta sniper shenanigans, use range to keep yourself in range of them by an inch or two, so they cannot shoot back.
Laerneans look nice and I agree that the rules are meh for them. I would rather them have the Banestrike combi-bolters than volkite chargers. I do have a question though, if they changed the Laerneans to have the ability to mimic 1 terminator unit but they are required to keep their current loadout do you think they would be worth it? Otherwise thank you for the video.
@@DemonAce18 - That's an interesting idea. There's a DA special character (forgot his name) that let's you mimic a warlord trait from select other legions, so there is precedent for such a rule.
Laemeans were supposed to be scary, leaving no witnesses. Hardly something conveyed with their profile.
So basically, they were short on the tactical viability in the last edition due to the power creep and the new edition has not improved them. A shame for a really cool looking unit that would have fit really nicely with the chataphractii terminator praetor model that is cool too. Shame.
By far (and for YEARS) the best 30k channel on TH-cam!
All the responding to drama is a bit boring. I wouldn't mind if Macca rose above it instead of engaging, but you can't get everything!
Other than that, it's insightful and well thought out in regards to 30k.
5/5 digeridoodles, or what ever people pay with down under.
Dollerydoos.
I have been waiting for this series to return, can’t wait for the Thousand Sons episode! Keep up the amazing work
Me too though from what i have read the Thousand Sons isn´t the powerhouse they used to be.
And a lot of the War Lord Traits isn´t as deadly as it once where.
Guardian of the Crimson King was once very good, but since Terminators can no longer be scoring units... well they are kinda shit compared to regular terminators.
Pride of the Legion is basically everything the the Crimson king build should have been.
As for the Castellax-Achea Automata they are... okay...ish, but only because we haven´t gotten the Mechanicum rules yet (their versions of the Castellax might be a better choice).
So it would seem that Thousand Sons might just the Alpha Legion requiring some skills to play and win with.
Thanks for continuing this series. Patiently waiting for emperors children.
Of note the Laerneans have two wounds, three on the Harrower making IWND much more likely to be of use. The Hydran Exemplars rule also applies to shooting attacks as well.
Two-wounds is standard on all terminators, some even have three, but the It Will Not Die rule isn't crash hot on them, not as good as Feel No Pain, but it may result in one extra terminator at the end of the game, so it is something, I guess.
When I pick the box up I'll be going Alpha legion!
This is exactly the type of content I was looking for. So thorough and well explained!
You should have mentioned that Headhunters are relentless, which means they can not only fire their heavy weapon in a turn they moved at full BF, they may also charge in a turn, in which they fired their rapid fire weapons. This might be useful considering the fact they all bear power daggers.
I think I did mention they were relentless, and also that I like the idea of a multi-melta on them.
Really do appreciate channels like this.
Because without people like you then new players wanting to get into a faction due to their theme and cool looking units and, as a result, spending quite a bit of money outright on them, only to then discover the not so great cons of said army which you may have accidentally built towards is not the greatest thing.
I'll be waiting for DA
Same. They should have been first of course. Damn Alpha Legion infiltrators ruined everything.
Well, for what it's worth I should have it out by about the... 5th of August?
I have been waiting thousands of years for these to return, yay.
I've been having good fun and games with Recon Company RoW and Headhunter Leviathan RoW, I use allot of recons and dreadnoughts
Thanks! Very helpful for me planning an army in the future!
Headhunters can take combi weapons for cheaper than seekers have bs5 and infiltrate/scout so first turn plasma/melta kills... Then assault with daggers. No dissintegrators to my knowledge.
I understand that Coils of the Hydra let's you take up to 3 units from one legion. But I can't for the life of me find anywhere that says whether or not they can be different units. For example if I pick Dark Angels as my rewards of treachery unit, could I take a unit of Dreadwing Interemptors, a unit of Deathwing companions, and a unit of inner circle knights Cernobium? Or would I have to take 3 of the same of any of the options available?
It is stated in Liber Hereticus Faq in community website, you can't pick different units from same legion you selected anymore.
Just getting into 30K and AL. I appreciate the great thoughts here. I'm thinking of leaning heavily into dreadnoughts, headhunters, Exodus, and recon squads as a base. The goal being to snipe things from a distance while harassing with multiple dreadnoughts.
Seems a bit WAAC to be honest
And u score with the Air?
Recon squads are line
@@tudorguti1309 I mean if u want to rely on Power armour. I see no Transports in his list
@@timostegemann9738 Yeah, this is just a general idea thus far. Still much to be determined.
One thing about the Power Dagger: It's lost Specialist Weapon. So it doesn't give +1 Attack if used with a Paragon Blade or Power Fist as it used to do.
But it does for Chainfists strangely
Just a reminder that Exodus isn't Unique so you can take 2 of them.
is 2 the maximum… i want 3 😊
Im disappointed by the removal of the special pick-a-trait legion rule as it was really fun. In the same regard, it sucks that vets lost the ability as well. Loved customizing them so much.
hmm these videos are just enticing me to play multiple legions im torn between iron hands or alpha legion but mobius conf sounds really interesting
I really like the Headhunter Leviathal
Really makes me happy that my Legion gets their part 2 first.
Just out of curiosity, how would you recommend running the Headhunters in terms of wargear? I've decided to go with mass bolter fire to lean in hard on sniping characters, but, I haven't yet glued on the bolters and I noticed my force is lacking quite significantly in the anti-armor department.
You absolutely must take the Multimelta. It becomes a character deleter because it also benefits from Precision Shots(4+)
@@ValhallanMelta Alright noted.
Recons with shroud bombs stack with our legion trait
So for the purposes of shooting theyre an extra 8"s away
Good points but you completely overlooked the power daggers on Headhunters. They actually hit harder than one might think.
Great series. Can't wait for white scars and t-sons
I don't think you mentioned that the lernaean terminators have line?
I already have a lot of AL units at my disposal, might expand into Rewards of Treachery to give an excuse for making more conversions. I am bit bummed by the Lernaeans though, wish they would have made them WS5 and also given them something else instead of an otherwise misplaced and somewhat useless conversion beamer and maybe also give options for Thunder Hammers. But then ofc I can just grab a nice Termie unit from another legion and custom convert/make them off various bits as I like instead, so who knows.
Oh my god I've been blessed he chose to run em backwards I'm building shattered legions WOOO
NEXT TWO ARE FOR ME
Woop Woop, Raven Guard Next
Lernaeans should have the option for a disintegrator in their special/heavy slot and you can't persuade me otherwise.
Agreed.
Realy good input on the Leviathal, very fun and flavorful but not very competitive
Well, I think they are very competitive, but require a skilled person to pull that from them.
@@TheOuterCircle ahh makes sense, my apologies haha. I’m very new to HH
Laernaensa are one of the few terminator units that are line-units, though.
Coils: Any unit that's not one of the Rewards of Treachery must start in Reserves. Not one unit per Rewards unit.
Yes, I wasn't clear enough.
I really don't understand why the Lerneans had to be WS4 when most Legion special Terminators have WS5. Also what does everyone feel is the preferrable Consuls for this legion?
Vigilator or moritat are very on theme.
Do you think the Lernaeans having the Line rule makes them any more useful than regular Terminators for seizing and holding objectives?
Well, given it means that they are actually capable of doing so, yes....
@@Orlunu doh, kinda answered my own question there
@@zeekree4596 They can do it, but refer to my pinned post.
Okay so I can take unit from another legion right. So if I take a 10 man squad of contenkar whom have the hq type, can I make them my warlord? They get the LA(alpha legion), so they can't join a character because that rule on them says they have to join a /night lords/character.
AL are definitely on my short list even if they're not the simplest legion to play
Is taking the gal vorbak with AL a thing that people do? Or are there more fun combos?
I've been experimenting with Phoenix terminators and fire drakes
Please do space wolves next
Caan someone teach me how you can take other legions units that have weapons which are not accessible to Alpha Legion? - The rule states that (x) becomes (Alpha Legion) which includes the sub rule - armoury of the alpha legion - removing the armoury option for their native legion. As far as I can see - this prevents the use of many, many units.
I read that the coils of the hydra everything except the RoT units must start off the table, doesn’t this make it basicly unusable since the RoT units will get wiped instantly in turn one?
These new Alpha Legion rules feel fore fluffy than the last.
Maca Lerneans are also Line troops
I know, I just don't see a huge deal of value in a line unit which has all short-range weapons to camp an objective, I suppose if they are in the enemy deployment zone they can be an objective capping pest, but I can't figure out what they want to be.
@@TheOuterCircle gotcha, yea I don't have any yet and I want to get them, but like you've said their kinda in a weird spot. I'll probably just get 5 for rule of cool 👍🏻
You missed the important part of Lerneans - they're Line. Place these guys on a mid-field objective and your opponent will have a hard time wrestling that objective off you
Especially with a primus medicae
As per the new FAQ, you can only pick 3 of the SAME unit using Coils of the Hydra instead of 3 units from the same legion :(
Which faq was this in? :o
@@phlxvi www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/3s4WA1UGgC15iDp2.pdf
Hydra Dominatus Brother
I think you underestimate the value of redeploying 3 key units right before the battle begins. I dont think that smth that is so important in 40k could be so insignificant in HH games
Deployment rules are extremely different, though.
Lol, well I'm a little disappointed with the vote since I'm building 3rd Legion, but at least I won't have to wait as long as Dark Angels.
I AWAIT YOUR WORLD EATERS.
Wait. What the fuck. The Lernaean Terminators can take a volkite CULVERIN??? That is crazy!!
A: It blows my mind they give them options that never existed before, and don't currently have bits for.
B: It sounds like these termies are positioned to be horde killers. Granted they are a way to expensive for that role to be worth it.
They are also Line though, so while not perfect that bit alone makes them worth considering imho
Seems pretty obvious alpha legion should have kept reserves manipulation if they lost all minor buffs they got to melee via Alpharius a loss decent rites of war. I'm all for high skill cap and challenge but Alpharius got butchered. Dorn stops everything below 4+ yet the pale spear can't be given wound anything on a 3+? The spear cuts through metal with ease
Casual reminder not to buy the new GW washes... they broke them.
Why and how did they break them?
👍
I'm committed to Alpha Legion but i feel like almost all their specialities are auper meh. Headhunter Killteams kind of underwhelming, Lerneans very overpriced and righta of war are really meh. Sad times.