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@Scotty Kilmer I have a 2008 Ford Edge with that 3.5 L V6 engine. The engine has 159k miles on it, and I have it serviced regularly...Oil Changes every 3 months, had Transmission fluid & filter changed at 125k miles...and only repairs it's ever had was the fan assembly replaced back in August of 2019. My mechanic just changed my oil last week...said the oil was just fine...my transmission fluid looked brand new...and when I had my Texas Inspection done in October, my mechanic...who also does Inspections....said my emissions were less than some new cars. My question is, beside the oil being milky looking, what sounds should I listen for? My Edge has never leaked any fluid...and even when the fan assembly stopped working...it happened at my apartment complex...so I just had it towed to my mechanic. It never overheated...I just noticed when I turned off the engine that the electric fan didn't stay on. Thanks for all the excellent information!
If that were true they'd make a much greater effort to keep parts in production and available. There are already parts for my '08 Taurus that are listed as "discontinued" by the dealer.
Your shop teacher had his finance cap on I see. Most people don't know the game. Everyone likes new, we just give a reason to upgrade, so be thankful for modern design.
"People were created to be loved. Things were created to be used. The reason the world is in chaos, is because things are being loved and people are being used" John Green
Hey Scotty, I've been watching your videos for about 8-9 years, I'm 21 right now and currently training to become a mechanic and I just wanted to thank you for passing on the knowledge you gave man. I knew a lot before I enrolled in school for it thanks to you. Hope you're being safe during this virus madness.
I'd look into being an electrician, plumber, or HVAC tech, because as cars get more computerized, auto makers are going to go more and more in-house (dealership-only) for repairs. It's already happening with John Deere, Tesla, and FCA. No ability to go independent removes leverage for employees to negotiate wages and benefits = Not Good. To see the worst-case scenario from a car mechanic's standpoint, TH-cam "Tony Seba robin hood conference", and watch that presentation.
@@EMichaelBall I already have my I.T Certificates for Hardware, Software and Networking. I did my research and I handled those first because of the fact that most modern cars are heavily computer based. Especially these new hybrid and electric cars coming out. Thanks for the advice though I suppose.
Isaiah Valoryn I’m a long time Petrolhead, an automotive DIYer and I do automotive repair work on the side of my full time job. There is a great satisfaction of getting up to your armpits in car to make a repair and see the vehicle running or driving the way it should. I hope it takes you forty or more years to get tired of that. On top of that you have opportunity to help out customers like Kilmer’s who don’t want to be ripped off, but just to have their car fixed to keep going to work or keep on with their lives.
@@EMichaelBall JD is spending millions on lobbyist to send them to speak against consumers and third parties right to repair JD products and electionics.
Good advice! An easy way of knowing if the car you are looking to buy has an internal water pump is to look at a spare parts web site. If the pump has a pulley (to receive a rubber belt) it's external, if it has a cogwheel, it's internal.
The VQ series V6s are considered some of the best engines on the market, some of the best B6s on the market. Also the water pumps never really gives these vehicles problems and they can be replaced without taking much apart.
Old Subarus: Lets make the cabin filter right behind the glove box so they only need to take that off to replace it. Mid 2000's Subarus: Lets keep it in the same place, but make them having to disassemble half the dash and trim to get to it.
Following this advice, then I should never buy a car. They all have design faults (both known and unknown). Some are better designed than others, but eventually, given enough time, every car will have a failure at some point in it's life. And most often, not during the warranty period.
I've had 2 used s10 Blazers both were easy to repair both surpassed 200k im in Northern Illinois so the bodies rusted away. Im now on my third Blazer w 130k
Amused. I had a friend who loved his Chevy pickup. ...Until the engine throttle randomly opened to full just before the bearings ceased and it locked up in the middle of winter and threw him off the road, killing him and his entire family. And I know what happened because I was requested by his extended family to see what happened. Engine oil was good, oil sump was good. It really just wanted to kill him. So there’s your cheap Chevy for you.
“They don’t care if it breaks down and you have to buy a new one, that’s what they want!” So true. Scotty’s tells it like it is. Know what you’re buying and maintain your car.
This is exactly why I still have my 15 year old Chevy truck with an old school cast iron 4.3 V6. Very simple, tough design, easy to work on, cheap parts replacement.
As a defender of the Oldsmobile Quad 4, I can properly say that this did cause a lot of issues, and the pancake batter issue with the baffles didnt help matters either. Id wadger that a few thousand Quad 4 cars were repaired because of these known problems before some dope head figured out it wasnt a head gasket problem. But by that time, the damage had already been done. And to this day, idiots on the internet blame the Quad 4s issues on blown head gaskets. In my personal experience, very rarely, if ever, does a quad 4/twin cam car lose a head gasket. And if it does, its usually user error because they dont perform the proper maintenance.
Scotty, this happened to my 2008 Nissan Frontier. My mechanic removed the front of the engine to access the timing chain (as you stated). The whine I was hearing was actually created by the plastic tensioner head being scraped over by the tensioner chain which wore away the plastic head of the pin. Which by the way, Nissan found out that (later), the plastic, when exposed to lubrication, softened it, which diminished the life of the part. $1,500 bucks later, through research, I find out Nissan has a class action suit against them for this design flaw.
Not just break. The first failure is the shaft seal starts to leak. So for months you have coolant dripping into the oil. Unless you're checking the oil daily you'll miss the start of the leak. Since water is heavier than oil it will sink to the bottom and be the first thing the oil pump sucks up. Bye bye engine. Bye bye car.
Another reason why I stuck with the 4 cylinder in my current Subaru. On our last Subaru (2006 2.5l) we replaced the water pump, etc. with the timing belt at 110,000 miles. Head gaskets, another known issue then, were done at 130,000. Those were the only big expenses we had with it. BTW: We traded it in 2017 after 11 years and 221,000 miles.
Easy change the timing belt every second service. If you ever need to replace a water pump check where the timing marking are then highlight it with a white marker the positions of the pulleys.
Charles Dewey wow! What a lame thing to happen at only 30K miles. I used to be a ford fan but after my last fiasco with them and my wife’s escape, I’ll never buy another one!
I used to inspect my timing belt (top cover) once a year. It took me about 20 minutes. It gave me piece of mind. I never changed my belt or water pump. It was supposed to be changed at 60,000 I went to 150,000 when the trans went out and sold it. 2003 Elantra.
Robert McKeown join the MacTfordedge face book group. The main key to longevity of the water pump is to led the coolant fresh. Drain and fill every 20000 miles. And use full synthetic oil only and change it every 4000 miles
@@aluralur9855 coolant changes at 20k miles for coolants designed to run 150K + miles is pretty much a waste of what is essentially brand new coolant... same with that fully synthetic engine oil change interval that is suggested. i get what you're saying but if the vehicle is gonna go through fluids that quickly, then the vehicle just isn't worth owning in my opinion. that's ridiculous! Robert, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to get rid it while you can and invest your cash elsewhere on a more reliable motor. good luck!
Chrysler, and GM had the same concept a long while ago, with similar results. A very expensive repair. I have done my share of 3.5 Ford pumps to tell you that you will have a minimum $2000 repair right after you make your last car payment....
9 hour job for $600 is a steal, and you were lucky again for that mileage, It is a poor design, and the water pump is failure prone. I have done just as many Edges, as any other Ford that has that pump. Older Duratecs had the pump on the rear of the engine in an exterior configuration that was much easier to deal with
So glad you made this video. I will definitely stay away from all of those engines with that water pump design. One thing for certain is that they don't like an educated consumer and thanks to scotty we're getting an education. I just would've never imagined that some manufacturers would think this was in any way good.
By the time we figure out the design flaw, they've already sold millions. They have us by the throat with the ICE, and that is another reason why we need to let them go and get into electric.
As a former Ford tech I can attest to the chain driven water pump issues usually didn’t see any issues until about 100k but it’s still the point it’s dangerous to have linked into a timing chain
Easy on us engineers Scotty. I can pretty much guarantee that the people driving these design changes are not engineers but being driven to do this by program managers or bean counters. The true engineers doing the true design are probably bitting their tongues while they are forced to do this.
I hear ya. I hear about stuff like this happening not only in the automotive industry but also the video games industry as well. Electronic Arts has a very long history of forcing developers to rush their games (DICE included), buying up small companies just to put them under, and more recently the whole battlefield 5 reveal scandal in which they over politicize a World War 2 game that has women prominently featured in places where it was rare for them to be at the time, then said "don't like it don't buy it". And BF5 is still a broken mess of a game with barely any content to this day.
All engineers should have two representatives of who will be performing maintenance on the product involved. The Navy was the same way, some desk jockey whose never even been on a submarine telling us "It will fit, it will work". It didn't most of the time. Now it's the same in the HVAC trade.
That may be so, but engineers give their degrees away by allowing this nonsense. The car manufacturers use their degrees for show, and pay them to keep their mouths shut otherwise. It’s all about how far they can go to save a penny....
the nissan VQ engines have 2 access panels, one for the water pump and the other for the chain tensioner so the pump can be changed easier... best way to prolong the longevity of the water pump is to change the coolant at the recommended interval due to the fact that it has a lubricant in it for water pump bearings...
Nissan has had the water pump inside the timing cover for decades as has Honda. The thing is that you just have it replaced when you replace the chain or belt. Usually around 90K miles. In my 350Z and my Q60S, you have a tell tale hole that will weep antifreeze when the pump is starting to go. This pump has this little exit hole that sends the coolant outside. But, if you don't change the pump when this starts happening you run the risk of total failure. I had one replaced on my 350Z along with the chains and the chain tensioners and it cost around $1,100. As for just doing the water pump, Scotty must be a bit confused. There is a port in the timing cover that allows you to remove the pump without pulling that big front timing cover off as well as another that allows you to take tension off the chain as well as remove and replace the tensioner. I own a 350Z and a newer Infiniti Q60S and both can have water pumps replaced without the total removal of the timing chain cover.. I think this is just another of Scotty just plain hating anything Nissan.. Well? My boss has one of Scotty's beloved Lexus cars and that bloody thing is nothing but a rolling money pit.
My old 3.5 VQ pathfinder never had the waterpump changed or timing chain changed and it still runs good after 300K miles on it, that SUV gave me alot of trouble free miles as far as the drivetrain was concerned. The CD changer on the other hand was garbage.
I have an 18 year old VQ with 234k miles on it with original timing chain and water pump. All of the engine internals are original as are the starter, alternator and power steering pump. It's been one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned. But it's always had meticulous service of all fluids and never been abused.
@@wutang80oc39 It makes me laugh when some dummy thinks he knows the VQ engine is junk yet never owned one and if he did I guarantee he did not properly maintain it. They are one of the best engines ever made I know cause my coworker has a 06 G35 with 200,000 miles on it and brags how he uses cheap oil to. I'm not surprised you have that many miles on yours. That's awesome. 👍
I’m no Nissan fanboy but the Nissan VQ series engine is one of the most highly regarded engines in history. It’s been awarded (if not mistaken) 14 consecutive Ward’s best engines in the world. If there’s a defect in the design, obviously it wouldn’t have made this feat. Now, the Nissan CVT is a different matter. But the VQ engine was the standard for V6 engines for many years. Makes you think that this guy is obviously biased against certain brands especially Nissan.
After dealing with my fair share of water pump nightmares, thermostat replacements, heater core problems, and cooling system maintenance, I've come to the conclusion that my very first car, a trusty air cooled VW Karmann Ghia, was a much better way to get around.
We’ve seen this on several of the Ford Explorer and interceptor suvs 3.5 and 3.7 liter v6. Some we’ve caught quick enough, others it was too late. Wrecked the engine internally
Especially just in time for the warranty to run out. In hopes you trade that car in for a new one because they convince people that it’s not worth the money to fix it.. might as well buy a new car 😏
@@GeneralSirDouglasMcA remember kia/hyundai will last at least 11-12 years and normally use the old school designs for simplistic fixing due to the 10 year warranty
It's a great system worthy of the Big Three. You sell people cars that self-destruct in a few years, you make some money on parts and repairs, and then they leave you forever and buy Toyotas. Then you get the taxpayers to lend you more money.
Thanks scotty for letting me know about this. I have one of those duratec engines that you mention in the video. My water pump is going bad because I'm loosing some coolant every few days and now I know why. It's not leaking outside the engine its leaking inside and mixing with my oil
Makes room in the engine compartment, but causes your engine to fail... All vehicles I owned for the last 40 years needed a new water pump at some time. Luckily, all had an external water pump!
Scotty, you should consider making a video that is a compilation of such items as this one for people to use as a checklist for when searching and evaluating cars for purchase.
Thomas Blaine "sounds intentional "-doesnt equal- "absolutely intentional" Ford DOHC V6s(Mazda V6), & Nissan VQ, Vk, & VR engines were derived from timing belt engines that left the water pump *inside* the timing cover to *save exterior space*. Ford V6s & Nissan V6-V8 engines arent known for having their timing chain water pump failing very early in life. Ive met plenty of Ford standard & Ecoboost 3.0-3.7L V6s that had never been opened in over 250K miles I have plenty of friends who crossed 230-250k miles in Nissan V6s & V8s & had never the front of the engine opened.... If both the Ford & Nissan owners had to open their timing covers... It would be after 13-15 years of service!
@Thomas Blaine you might think that but it's far from true ,,Pontiac had the Quad 4 back in the early 90s and it has a timing chain driven water pump ,,those engines easily reached 250K miles if maintained ,,and GM recommended replacing the timing chain and tensioners at 150K miles ,and they also suggest replacing the water pump at that time due to the complexity of the job another engine of this design is the follow on engine to the QUAD-4 the GM ECO-Tec engine ,,millions of GM cars from 2002 till today , all of GMs small cars used this engine for most of the last 18 years ,,my sister had a 2003 chevy Cavalier that made 256,000 miles before a balance shaft broke inside the engine
@Ernest Cazenave I personally dislike the Ecotec engine , my primary reason for this is it's TINY cartridge oil filter ,,we never had any of the commonly associated problems that Ecotecs normally have ,specifically the headgasket problem ,it ran perfectly up till the day it broke ,only thing i ever did to it was maintenance ,oil/filter every 3500-4000 miles and filter every 2000,airfilter every 20K ,sparkplugs at 100K and again at 200K,,it had a habit of using 1 quart of oil between changes that never got worse ,,when the motor died my sister just bought another car rather than fixing it cause the then 14 year old car just wasn't worth spending $1500 on a used engine
Wow, thanks. Keeping an eye out for that one. Ya know? It seems if you buy any company's new car you're just opening yourself up to getting it up the kazoo for SO MANY reasons. They keep coming up with new SNAFUs from bumper to bumper (they don't even have those anymore!!).
I've had 5 cars with a timing belt driven water pump. They're all designed to be replaced with the timing belt. The problem is when they fail between changes and/or they have timing chains that have longer service intervals. It's really a toss of a coin. If you change yourself, think twice about getting a generic water pump or plan on a timing belt/water pump swap at about half the normal schedule.
The moral of this story, "Spend money on ROUTINE MAINTENANCE!" In the United States the average driver does not even THINK about maintenance or a car repair fund until the vehicle gets in a really bad way or leaves them stranded on the side of the road.
@@shawnhampshirehick101 The backbreaker to PO was the Engineers were designing on life cycles to match new car loan repayment financing of 36-48 months. By the time the engineering designs got into production of new models, price inflation required extension of the loan repayment periods to 60 months and now 72 months or more. Therefore the vehicle is worn out before it is half-paid for. The result is absolutely accountant stupidity in the Board Room-like fish, corporations die from the brain, not the tail.
NO! We have forward thinking which makes financial sense. More replaceable parts should be designed that way. Everyone likes new, we just give a reason for an upgrade, the least consumers can do is be thankful!!
@@carlthefriendlyllama2126 poorly built cars break down even from sitting unlike good quality built cars you can keep it sitting for years and come back hook up a battery and it starts right up
@@carlthefriendlyllama2126 I guarantee you out of experience with a friend's Jaguar, the Jaguar will cost you more as a lawn ornament, than driving a Lexus daily.
When changing my water pump on my 1975 Monte Carlo (with a 350 engine, the most time-consuming part was cleaning the new pump and prepping it for paint then waiting for the paint to dry!😂😂😂😂😂😂 The rest was easy!
Wish they still made slant 6 engines from the 70 & 80 now that was simple reliable engine and easy to fix. Plus u would get 500.000 miles and longer if u actually maintained it...
Uhhhh no....... I helped restored and owned a 1963 Falcon 144 I-6, a 1965 Mustang Notchback 200 I-6 and a 1967 Mustang Convertible 200 I-6. I was lucky to get 150-160K out of these engines. My Dad told me that the Continental long stroke in his Studebaker needed a ring and valve job around 60k! Metallurgy has come a LONG way since the 1940's-John in Texas
Correction, its just a reason for people to upgrade. Who doesn't like new and shinny? Get with the times, forward thinking is what makes American great!!
@@rubear1848 "upgrade" as in spending $30k every 4 years because car companies can't be fucked keeping parts in stock or making everything sealed and unreplaceable? I'd rather not.
Correct. Dealerships make most of their money from workshop repairs. And manufacturers need dealerships in order to sell cars. So manufacturers make things labour intensive so the dealerships can charge more for repairs...or sell them a new car.
The 2008- on cars/trucks are especially hard to work on & have serious design flaws/obsolescence built-in. Now if a new vehicle builder came along , able to field a well-designed, reliable, and easily user-servicable product, would that change the paradigm, or would "the big three ( Ford, Chevy Dodge)"gang up and destroy the upstart competition, like they did with Tucker Motors ?
I remember 2 or 3 decades ago older people saying, "I won't buy a foreign car! Buy American and support our jobs." That same guy now drives a Toyota Avalon. 'Nuff said! 😷
"Oh yeah I'm getting better gas mileage... but yet the repair, insurance and other costs exceed that, that's okay, I'm saving the environment!" Idiocy at its best. Sad. Great vid as usual Scotty. Exposing THE TRUTH.
Hes not saying anything revolutionary, and its not a common issue for people to have, if anything timing chain driven water pumps have been known to go over 200k miles non issue.
@@nils6177 200k is more than most people will go in a car, ive taken a camry to 480k, but i recognize that many other cars that arent toyota lexus wont hit more than 250k without issues.
Perry All of Scotty's examples were re-adapted Japanese engines that used to run timing belts & powered that water pump with the timing belt. All of Fords DOHC (Duratec) V6s were designed & pulled from Mazda. Mazda used to run timing belts in their V6 engines in the 90s. When the 2000s came mazda decided to readapt their V6s to timing chain drive to improve reliability & improve consumer faith. But Mazda didnt want to reenginer the V6s significantly- *so they left the water pump in place ran the pump with the chain* & finally the story remains the same about Nissan VQ,VR.& VK engines, & it still remains the same story with Subaru H6s & timing chain F4s
Perry One more thing I forgot to say: just because the water pump is buried inside the timing cover & driven by timing chain *doesnt make them inherintly unreliable* Examples: 👉The 2016-2019 Ford GT ran the same DOHC TT ecoboost V6 from the F150, & explorer. *So that means it used a timing chain water pump* They ran Le mans & never had a single engine failure, & never had an engine failure throughout the WEC. 👉Nissan uses many variants of the VQ, VR, & VK engine to run endurance races, (The VR is the turbo Variant of the VQ, & the Vk is the 90 degree V8 derived from VQ) *all of them use the use timing-chain water pumps, & they never have failed from cooling issues* One example is- *the whole 2017-now LMP2 field* They all use a modified Nissan VK45 engine. & oh boy, they're known to take a thrash!
VQs have won many awards for reliability. This issue is EXTREMELY RARE. He's not necessarily wrong, its a huge issue if the water pump fails but its no scam. Don't believe everything this guy says.
On the Fords, RWD vehicles with the 3.5/3.7 Duratec engine (F150/Mustang) have external water pump. FWD vehicles (Explorer/Edge) have internal water pump because there is less room with a transversely mounted engine.
Remember the Chrysler 2.7 litre V6? Nobody learned from Chrysler’s mistakes? Now these are all much better than Chrysler’s old 2.7 but they’re definitely prone to oil dilution if the pump or seal fails. It’s like to save money they hire the least qualified dummies to engineer their powertrains. Apparently it costs too much money to hire someone with the right experience and training.
Everybody likes to blame the engineers, but they were just given a set of requirements. The bosses wanted an engine with significant power that can fit in as many models as possible to reduce costs. There is no way to fit a engine of that size transversally for a FWD and put a 6 SPD transmission for better fuel economy in the bay size provided without compromises. The fact that on RWD cars with similar engines have the water pump external shows the engineers were aware. So don't blame the engineer, blame the asshat product manager that gave them the requirements.
Yet the early fours in the K cars ran forever if you changed the timing belt as specified. I bought a rust bucket Dakota for the rear end that had the V6 with a quarter million plus and the lower end is still tighter than Taylor Swift’s c....ontract.
My wife owns a 2019 Ford Fiesta 1ltr ecoboost engine and after a year it ended up in the garage the solenoid for the variable valve timing was broken they didn’t even stock that part in the uk so had to get it from abroad, cars are not made like they were used to that’s for sure. Love the show scotty keep up the good work from everyone in the uk and you all stay safe
On the Nissan VQ engines, there is a access door that enables you to replace the water pump without pulling the entire timing chain cover off. Actually, there are two access doors. One for the water pump, and another that enables you to take tension off the timing chain in order to get the pump off. There are videos right here on YT that show how to do it.
So, in summary.... make sure you follow the manufacturers' recommended service intervals. Good advice. In all the years I've driven cars, I've only had 1 water pump failure and 0 timing belt/chain issues. This includes cars with external and internal water pumps, chain and belt driven timing chains. The only ones I've ever heard about breaking are from friends and family that never did the manufacturers' regular service intervals. There's a reason they recommend specific intervals. The most common coolant problem I've had is a hose breaking or leaking. The worst problem I ever had was a radiator blowing out the bottom seam and dumping coolant on the road (at 60 MPH).
Well, Toyota still knows what they're doing. Their newer engines have electric water pumps. No chain, or even belt for that matter. An independent device that just needs some electrical connections. I like it.
@@msnpassjan2004 "Accountants just do what the executives tell them to do." Exactly, what the Nazis told to the tribunal as a defense at the Nuremberg trial. They still got a guilty verdict and got hung. Everybody would think twice before following orders if that's was the case. "Hey, I might lose my job but heck, I'll survive (in the literal sense)."
Ryad Hasan Ahmed You see the problem with that is, Ford is making all these ecoboost engines because the EPA and federal government keep pushing for higher and higher corporate average mpg’s. So Ford makes these stupid engines to make their vehicles look more efficient on the EPA’s controlled testing, when in reality, they suck.
I agree with you 100 percent , it’s completely unacceptable that manufacturers put the water pump inside the engine behind a chain which empties the cooling systems contents into the crankcase . One thing you didn’t specify is that not All Ford Duratec 3.5/3.7s have that, just the transverse mount ones. The F150 and Transit Vans use a belt driven water pump on the outside that’s easy to change
I have a 13' focus se, 5 speed manual, 2.0 TIVCT non turbo. Timing chain driven water pump and around 165,000 miles. Replaced original water pump at 100,000 miles because the timing cover haf a SLIGHT coolant leak. 4-6 hour job if you lower the k-member with engine enough to access all timing cover bolts.
Ross McDonald, HE'S A LEGEND ! LOOK HOW MANY SUBS. HE HAS . HE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING A ORCHESTRA CONDUCTOR, THE ITALIAN FROM TEXAS, AND MUCH MORE. HE'S GREAT !
I’m pretty sure Scotty only has one “mode”, it’s just Scotty being Scotty 😂; what you see on these vids is probably exactly what you get in real life!!
A long time ago (1970) when I worked fixing cars as a goff'er for some older German mechanics, they told me that English cars were often a nightmare to work on because they were designed by "English Gentlemen Engineers" that never had the experience of physically building or fixing anything. It's a social class thing. Upper-Class English always has someone else do their dirty, greasy work. In Continental Europe by comparison, Engineers started their training, in what is equivalent to our High School, by designing, building, and fixing their own simple machines. Consequently, they had a different design philosophy. I don't know if this is still true, but I once talked with a really old Swedish Engineer who confirmed that his early mechanical education included a similar 'hands on' approach!
@@RichardFreeberg , that European sensibility must've ended in the 90's, because European cars are a nightmare to work on compared to American and Japanese cars of the same era.
Scotty have you ever changed a water pump on a Toyota 3.5L V6? It’s right up against the passenger frame rail. Service manual calls for removing the engine. Although I’ve seen some people tilt the engine to get it off and on.
My 2000 Ford focus had it's only breakdown in my driveway, after whining for twenty miles. Smoke and hissing...but she got me home. 175,000 miles and my uncle loves it! Owned it since 2000, my only complaint, a persistent wheel bearing problem..had to replace the bearings every three years. Don't get me started on my Oldsmobile Cutlass..200,000 and still had the hub caps!
The Nissan water pump has two gaskets. One between for the oil and one the coolant. There is same drain in between the gaskets in case the coolant leaks.
You right it have 2 big o ring that goes around the water pump , so in case of the pump leaks , the coolant will channel out to outside the timing cover .. I change a lot them before when I was a technician in a Nissan dealership
I have a 2012 Infiniti M37 and recently replace my leaking water pump. No coolant went into the engine (due to the chamber design... whew!). I had the engine oil changed at the same time anyway (just to be safe). As for the cost... fortunatley my local mechanic was able to do it for about 1/2 the dealership price... but still came in at ~ $800 USD (incl. taxes, labour, parts, and the afore menetioned engine oil change).
@@ralphw1804 So what your saying is that you would of had to pay $1,600! but since you found a mechanic who did it for 1/2 price, you're happy with a $800 water pump repair bill versus a $60 one as Scotty said..
Engineers HAVE to think of new ways of doing things constantly to avoid becoming obsolete. There is no requirement they actually IMPROVE anything, as long as it is new (or recycled from a previous engineer's work).
The 3.5, 3.5 EcoBoost, and 3.7 in the F-150, Transit, Mustang, and Expedition/Navigator don’t have the timing chain driven water pump. Those are the only versions of that V6 I would buy.
Yes because the engine mount was in the way on the edge and explorer. I’ve had two of these engines and enjoy everything about them , it’s too bad they screwed that part up.
Valery Legasov: The boron control rod stops the reaction but first, the tip made of graphite enters the reactor which accelerates the reaction. Judge: Why do we make them that way? Legasov: The same reason why we do not have containment structures or use properly enriched fuel...it's cheaper! This sort of thinking sucks with cars too. Thanks for exposing this Scotty!
I recently found out what an interference engine is when my timing belt blew on my Ford fiesta. Hope to have it back in the next week or so.. When the new engine is installed🤣🤣
A wise man once told me.. "never marry a vehicle". He was my mentor at the Cadillac dealership.. HA HA! Northstar engines did put his kids through college though..
I HAVE A 2012 FORD FUSION SE WITH A 2.5L NON TURBO ENGINE. IT HAS AN EASY TO REPLACE EXTERNAL WATER PUMP. 200,000+ MILES, 30-33 MPG. BOUGHT NEW AND CHANGED OIL EVERY 5,000 MILES, RELIGIOUSLY. LITTLE MAINTENANCE AND NO RUST. IT IS A SOUTHERN CAR. FINIS PAX
The F-150 & Mustang with 3.5 & 3.7 have external water pumps. Taurus, Explorer, & Edge with 3.5 & 3.7 have timing chain. I got lucky, my '13 Taurus starting leaking out the weep hole at 160k. Was $2,700 at the Ford Dealer. Only reason I did it was the cam lobes had ZERO wear marks and no sludge build up at all.
rev up your real pain in the rear end to access, expensive to repair, dimwit designed, internal installed chain driven oil soaked water pump fitted engines!!
When it’s time for a new cell phone, it’s also time for a new car. Perpetual indebtedness. Same goes for credit cards, you pay down your account and then they increase your interest rate. Oh and Subaru doesn’t get a pass either, I’ve seen many with blown head gaskets. 40 year home mortgages, everything interest up front. The best policy is to save up and pay in full and take no loans, but that is almost unattainable for most people with a normal job. Systematically keeping us in want, need, and debt. Everything is planned and failure of every vehicle built to fail. I drive commercially and we have a repair shop on site. My Cummins turbo diesel had abs brake module failure on international 2015 box truck. Mechanic diagnose and replaced part but we still needed to tow my vehicle to dealer to had the new parts reprogrammed! Every vehicle maker does this now, so find the car maker that has the lowest featured flaws. Good luck all!
Yep got to agree.... hate engines like that you left some out ...Chevrolet's 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec are chain driven water pumps and as is the old quad 4.... those engines they put them in the back somewhat underneath the exhaust manifold.... basically when they quit making the quad 4, they started making the Ecotec 2.2 ...similar engine.. water pump in the exact same location...
Hey scotty you’re absolutely right about ford 3,5 engine. I own a 2011 Ford Taurus SEL and I had the same issue two times in 9 years of using even though I take a good care of it and done all the services perfectly. I’m stuck with the thing waiting for it to be totaled any time soon. It’s fine now but it cost me a fortune to fix. Good cars but absolute garbage when broken.
I just did a water pump on a taurus. Ford quoted 11hrs for the job. It was mind blowing how difficult it was, step one was take off the air intake on the other side of the engine. Luckily the engine got to stay in the car for the repair, not true on all Ford's tho.
2:56 Is the reason why they did it that way. Essentially you will experience this when you didn't want to have it serviced under warranty (because they replace this under dealer periodic servicing), trying to save by DIY'ing it and forgot to change it or out of warranty. Either way it is a nice little booby trap penalty for trying to save by not having your vehicle serviced by the Stealership so they can get your money (profits). Also a great way to cut the life cycle of products reducing the 2nd hand market (seen as a drain on profits) and forces people to buy new so that the manufacturer receives the most profit.
Well I have a Ford Escape and my wife has a Subaru Crosstrek so I'm all ears. Edit: Seems like we are good. My Lease on the Escape is almost done anyway and I am going to buy a Rav4.
I own and currently am rebuilding a 2011 ford taurus sel due to water pump failure. I was lucky and got it in my shop right before catastrophic failure.
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where is the new video in the 2nd channel scotty i cant wait
They just want you to time the maintenance properly. L.O.L
Scotty does my 2005 5.4l v8 F-150 fall under this category for water pump change?
@Scotty Kilmer I have a 2008 Ford Edge with that 3.5 L V6 engine. The engine has 159k miles on it, and I have it serviced regularly...Oil Changes every 3 months, had Transmission fluid & filter changed at 125k miles...and only repairs it's ever had was the fan assembly replaced back in August of 2019. My mechanic just changed my oil last week...said the oil was just fine...my transmission fluid looked brand new...and when I had my Texas Inspection done in October, my mechanic...who also does Inspections....said my emissions were less than some new cars.
My question is, beside the oil being milky looking, what sounds should I listen for? My Edge has never leaked any fluid...and even when the fan assembly stopped working...it happened at my apartment complex...so I just had it towed to my mechanic. It never overheated...I just noticed when I turned off the engine that the electric fan didn't stay on.
Thanks for all the excellent information!
Put the link all the way up in the description as well so it's visible without extending it.
Great stuff. I still miss the Bell.
My shop teacher once said that car manufacturers are not in the car business. They're in the parts business. Now it makes all sense.
That do make a lot of sense.
If that were true they'd make a much greater effort to keep parts in production and available. There are already parts for my '08 Taurus that are listed as "discontinued" by the dealer.
Nodak81 ya so you have to spend more money on newer parts
Your shop teacher had his finance cap on I see. Most people don't know the game. Everyone likes new, we just give a reason to upgrade, so be thankful for modern design.
@@nodak81 becuse now they want You to Buy a new car with more expensive parts
"People were created to be loved. Things were created to be used. The reason the world is in chaos, is because things are being loved and people are being used" John Green
I love my water pump.
@@notadoctor2598 where are you from? Just curious 😉
Awsome, dude! That beautiful!
We are all spirits* in a material world.
* - Void where prohibited. Your mileage will vary.
Love this quote!
Hey Scotty, I've been watching your videos for about 8-9 years, I'm 21 right now and currently training to become a mechanic and I just wanted to thank you for passing on the knowledge you gave man. I knew a lot before I enrolled in school for it thanks to you. Hope you're being safe during this virus madness.
Hello, thank you that means a lot, stay safe as well!
I'd look into being an electrician, plumber, or HVAC tech, because as cars get more computerized, auto makers are going to go more and more in-house (dealership-only) for repairs. It's already happening with John Deere, Tesla, and FCA. No ability to go independent removes leverage for employees to negotiate wages and benefits = Not Good. To see the worst-case scenario from a car mechanic's standpoint, TH-cam "Tony Seba robin hood conference", and watch that presentation.
@@EMichaelBall I already have my I.T Certificates for Hardware, Software and Networking. I did my research and I handled those first because of the fact that most modern cars are heavily computer based. Especially these new hybrid and electric cars coming out. Thanks for the advice though I suppose.
Isaiah Valoryn I’m a long time Petrolhead, an automotive DIYer and I do automotive repair work on the side of my full time job. There is a great satisfaction of getting up to your armpits in car to make a repair and see the vehicle running or driving the way it should. I hope it takes you forty or more years to get tired of that. On top of that you have opportunity to help out customers like Kilmer’s who don’t want to be ripped off, but just to have their car fixed to keep going to work or keep on with their lives.
@@EMichaelBall JD is spending millions on lobbyist to send them to speak against consumers and third parties right to repair JD products and electionics.
Good advice! An easy way of knowing if the car you are looking to buy has an internal water pump is to look at a spare parts web site. If the pump has a pulley (to receive a rubber belt) it's external, if it has a cogwheel, it's internal.
Great Tip for sure!!!
Excellent advice!
Great tip
The VQ series V6s are considered some of the best engines on the market, some of the best B6s on the market. Also the water pumps never really gives these vehicles problems and they can be replaced without taking much apart.
Me 4 Years ago: "Yes the engine is made out of engine"
Me Today: "The water pump is where? Who in the hell designed this???"
Haha😂👍
Same :D
Old Subarus: Lets make the cabin filter right behind the glove box so they only need to take that off to replace it.
Mid 2000's Subarus: Lets keep it in the same place, but make them having to disassemble half the dash and trim to get to it.
Maybe, in the next 4 years, you'll realise it's not a water pump.
@@philipcooper8297 lol
Best advice I’ve heard in a long time. Don’t buy a car with known design faults.
Following this advice, then I should never buy a car. They all have design faults (both known and unknown). Some are better designed than others, but eventually, given enough time, every car will have a failure at some point in it's life. And most often, not during the warranty period.
It's such a shame Studebaker went out of business all those years ago.
Automotive engineers should be made to work on everything they design into their products.
Donald Hollums great idea....I was a test engineer for a wholesaler that resold the products they bought.....but who does this on cars? Jim
Donald Hollums sorry.....Consumers Report does this. I you look up their magazines & yearly issue you’ll see that agree with Scotty! Jim, again
German engineers will quit after a day.
Blame the bean counters who are concerned about squeezing every possible penny of cost out, not allowing engineers to implement the best designs.
@@djo9c1 I'd blame the stock holders
I enjoy my 1990 chevy pickup. Everything's easy to fix and still relatively cheap.
I had a 91 Silverado RWD and it was an amazing city truck when I lived in Ottawa for a few years and not even that bad on gas. Not good but not bad
@@colinjohnston5734 p
I’ve changed my water pump twice 05 Ram 2500
I've had 2 used s10 Blazers both were easy to repair both surpassed 200k im in Northern Illinois so the bodies rusted away. Im now on my third Blazer w 130k
Amused. I had a friend who loved his Chevy pickup. ...Until the engine throttle randomly opened to full just before the bearings ceased and it locked up in the middle of winter and threw him off the road, killing him and his entire family. And I know what happened because I was requested by his extended family to see what happened. Engine oil was good, oil sump was good. It really just wanted to kill him. So there’s your cheap Chevy for you.
“They don’t care if it breaks down and you have to buy a new one, that’s what they want!”
So true. Scotty’s tells it like it is. Know what you’re buying and maintain your car.
True
This is exactly why I still have my 15 year old Chevy truck with an old school cast iron 4.3 V6. Very simple, tough design, easy to work on, cheap parts replacement.
a 1988 to 1998 chevy truck and a ford crown victoria are the most reliable vehicules I ever owned
Hope you don't have those damn poppet valves for fuel delivery. My 2000 did. Wouldn't start as soon as the fuel pressure was too low
poor mpg 12-14 at its best. The 5.3 dose better 16-18 mpg .I had a 4.3 in a 2007 silverado classic ( standard cab short bed) with a standard trans .
Yeah. That is why.
Trevor those are garbage motors. They last but garbage power and poor mpg
Imagine how many misdiagnosis of a blown head gasket must have happened because of this too.
on the subie they change the gaskets the water pump and timing belt all together. at the dealership of course
They test for exhaust gasses in the system
As a defender of the Oldsmobile Quad 4, I can properly say that this did cause a lot of issues, and the pancake batter issue with the baffles didnt help matters either. Id wadger that a few thousand Quad 4 cars were repaired because of these known problems before some dope head figured out it wasnt a head gasket problem. But by that time, the damage had already been done. And to this day, idiots on the internet blame the Quad 4s issues on blown head gaskets.
In my personal experience, very rarely, if ever, does a quad 4/twin cam car lose a head gasket. And if it does, its usually user error because they dont perform the proper maintenance.
in interference engines your engine will blow or lock up if your water pump fails and your engine is out of time. kind of a huge difference
Blown head is a term for a multiple problems. Which in simpler language means - you are screwed.
they sell a lot of motors this way, my local car parts store seems to always have a motor waiting for delivery with that kind of water pump system,
That feeling when you make it through a Scotty video without your car being included.
Scotty, this happened to my 2008 Nissan Frontier. My mechanic removed the front of the engine to access the timing chain (as you stated). The whine I was hearing was actually created by the plastic tensioner head being scraped over by the tensioner chain which wore away the plastic head of the pin. Which by the way, Nissan found out that (later), the plastic, when exposed to lubrication, softened it, which diminished the life of the part. $1,500 bucks later, through research, I find out Nissan has a class action suit against them for this design flaw.
Not just break. The first failure is the shaft seal starts to leak. So for months you have coolant dripping into the oil. Unless you're checking the oil daily you'll miss the start of the leak. Since water is heavier than oil it will sink to the bottom and be the first thing the oil pump sucks up. Bye bye engine. Bye bye car.
Wild
Another reason why I stuck with the 4 cylinder in my current Subaru.
On our last Subaru (2006 2.5l) we replaced the water pump, etc. with the timing belt at 110,000 miles. Head gaskets, another known issue then, were done at 130,000. Those were the only big expenses we had with it. BTW: We traded it in 2017 after 11 years and 221,000 miles.
My car has the big three issues
Interference
Timing belt
Belt driven water pump
That timing belt makes me nervous every day
I had a Mustang 4 cyl., timing belt broke at 30,000 miles
Easy change the timing belt every second service. If you ever need to replace a water pump check where the timing marking are then highlight it with a white marker the positions of the pulleys.
Jay Mac did they put it in the oil too
Charles Dewey wow! What a lame thing to happen at only 30K miles. I used to be a ford fan but after my last fiasco with them and my wife’s escape, I’ll never buy another one!
I used to inspect my timing belt (top cover) once a year. It took me about 20 minutes. It gave me piece of mind. I never changed my belt or water pump. It was supposed to be changed at 60,000 I went to 150,000 when the trans went out and sold it. 2003 Elantra.
Scotty's videos are great. I like to turn off the volume while watching and then crank some Mozart. He's the most amazing conductor. Give it a shot!
I'm going to do it. It's hilarious
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Are you me?
Lol 😂
My son and his wife went through this with their 2013 Ford Edge. Trashed the motor. $7000 fix. They traded it the way it sat.
How many miles?
Oh my! We just bought a low mileage 2010 3.5l Edge for my wife. I had no idea about this.
Robert McKeown join the MacTfordedge face book group. The main key to longevity of the water pump is to led the coolant fresh. Drain and fill every 20000 miles. And use full synthetic oil only and change it every 4000 miles
@@aluralur9855 coolant changes at 20k miles for coolants designed to run 150K + miles is pretty much a waste of what is essentially brand new coolant... same with that fully synthetic engine oil change interval that is suggested.
i get what you're saying but if the vehicle is gonna go through fluids that quickly, then the vehicle just isn't worth owning in my opinion. that's ridiculous!
Robert, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to get rid it while you can and invest your cash elsewhere on a more reliable motor.
good luck!
Chrysler, and GM had the same concept a long while ago, with similar results. A very expensive repair. I have done my share of 3.5 Ford pumps to tell you that you will have a minimum $2000 repair right after you make your last car payment....
Had to replace my 300s engine because of this
What was the average milage at which they failed?
This on the new 3.5 eco boost? Heard it was redesigned in 2017 or 18. Same design on the 2.7?
M Anderson no the 3.5L and 3.7L Duratec V6’s that we’re in the 2007-2010 edges.
9 hour job for $600 is a steal, and you were lucky again for that mileage, It is a poor design, and the water pump is failure prone. I have done just as many Edges, as any other Ford that has that pump. Older Duratecs had the pump on the rear of the engine in an exterior configuration that was much easier to deal with
So glad you made this video. I will definitely stay away from all of those engines with that water pump design. One thing for certain is that they don't like an educated consumer and thanks to scotty we're getting an education. I just would've never imagined that some manufacturers would think this was in any way good.
Frank D. Brennan
Ive met plenty of V6 Ford F150s that are still running original timing-chain water pump after 200K miles.
By the time we figure out the design flaw, they've already sold millions. They have us by the throat with the ICE, and that is another reason why we need to let them go and get into electric.
Afternoon Scotty!! Stay safe during these times!
hello, thanks you too!
Thank You Scotty for the warning !!! We the people are tired of all there junk !!!
As a former Ford tech I can attest to the chain driven water pump issues usually didn’t see any issues until about 100k but it’s still the point it’s dangerous to have linked into a timing chain
Easy on us engineers Scotty. I can pretty much guarantee that the people driving these design changes are not engineers but being driven to do this by program managers or bean counters. The true engineers doing the true design are probably bitting their tongues while they are forced to do this.
I hear ya. I hear about stuff like this happening not only in the automotive industry but also the video games industry as well. Electronic Arts has a very long history of forcing developers to rush their games (DICE included), buying up small companies just to put them under, and more recently the whole battlefield 5 reveal scandal in which they over politicize a World War 2 game that has women prominently featured in places where it was rare for them to be at the time, then said "don't like it don't buy it". And BF5 is still a broken mess of a game with barely any content to this day.
K
@@DAN007thefoxx1 k
All engineers should have two representatives of who will be performing maintenance on the product involved. The Navy was the same way, some desk jockey whose never even been on a submarine telling us "It will fit, it will work". It didn't most of the time. Now it's the same in the HVAC trade.
That may be so, but engineers give their degrees away by allowing this nonsense. The car manufacturers use their degrees for show, and pay them to keep their mouths shut otherwise. It’s all about how far they can go to save a penny....
the nissan VQ engines have 2 access panels, one for the water pump and the other for the chain tensioner so the pump can be changed easier... best way to prolong the longevity of the water pump is to change the coolant at the recommended interval due to the fact that it has a lubricant in it for water pump bearings...
Nissan has had the water pump inside the
timing cover for decades as has Honda. The thing is that
you just have it replaced when you replace the chain or belt. Usually
around 90K miles. In my 350Z and my Q60S, you have a tell tale
hole that will weep antifreeze when the pump is starting to go.
This pump has this little exit hole that sends the coolant
outside. But, if you don't change the pump when this starts
happening you run the risk of total failure. I had one replaced on
my 350Z along with the chains and the chain tensioners and it
cost around $1,100. As for just doing the water pump, Scotty must
be a bit confused. There is a port in the timing cover that allows you
to remove the pump without pulling that big front timing cover off
as well as another that allows you to take tension off the chain as
well as remove and replace the tensioner. I own a 350Z and a newer Infiniti
Q60S and both can have water pumps replaced without the total
removal of the timing chain cover.. I think this is just another
of Scotty just plain hating anything Nissan.. Well?
My boss has one of Scotty's beloved Lexus cars and that bloody thing
is nothing but a rolling money pit.
My old 3.5 VQ pathfinder never had the waterpump changed or timing chain changed and it still runs good after 300K miles on it, that SUV gave me alot of trouble free miles as far as the drivetrain was concerned. The CD changer on the other hand was garbage.
This is why you dont take a subaru, nissan, infiniti to a toyota fan boy.
I have an 18 year old VQ with 234k miles on it with original timing chain and water pump.
All of the engine internals are original as are the starter, alternator and power steering pump.
It's been one of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.
But it's always had meticulous service of all fluids and never been abused.
@@wutang80oc39 It makes me laugh when some dummy thinks he knows the VQ engine is junk yet never owned one and if he did I guarantee he did not properly maintain it. They are one of the best engines ever made I know cause my coworker has a 06 G35 with 200,000 miles on it and brags how he uses cheap oil to. I'm not surprised you have that many miles on yours. That's awesome. 👍
I’m no Nissan fanboy but the Nissan VQ series engine is one of the most highly regarded engines in history. It’s been awarded (if not mistaken) 14 consecutive Ward’s best engines in the world. If there’s a defect in the design, obviously it wouldn’t have made this feat. Now, the Nissan CVT is a different matter. But the VQ engine was the standard for V6 engines for many years. Makes you think that this guy is obviously biased against certain brands especially Nissan.
After dealing with my fair share of water pump nightmares, thermostat replacements, heater core problems, and cooling system maintenance, I've come to the conclusion that my very first car, a trusty air cooled VW Karmann Ghia, was a much better way to get around.
We’ve seen this on several of the Ford Explorer and interceptor suvs 3.5 and 3.7 liter v6. Some we’ve caught quick enough, others it was too late. Wrecked the engine internally
So the engine is designed to break five to eight years after they're made. Sounds like every major car corporation's dream come true right there.
Especially just in time for the warranty to run out. In hopes you trade that car in for a new one because they convince people that it’s not worth the money to fix it.. might as well buy a new car 😏
Hoped Honda and Toyota are the exception.
You need to get with the times buddy. Forwards thinkers giving people a reason to upgrade, I means who doesn't like new and shinny?
@@GeneralSirDouglasMcA remember kia/hyundai will last at least 11-12 years and normally use the old school designs for simplistic fixing due to the 10 year warranty
It's a great system worthy of the Big Three. You sell people cars that self-destruct in a few years, you make some money on parts and repairs, and then they leave you forever and buy Toyotas.
Then you get the taxpayers to lend you more money.
It’s a trap......bleh, think I’ll just stick to older vehicles, that way when it breaks I can figure out how to fix it
I swear
And cheaper to fix, cheaper parts
Thanks scotty for letting me know about this. I have one of those duratec engines that you mention in the video. My water pump is going bad because I'm loosing some coolant every few days and now I know why. It's not leaking outside the engine its leaking inside and mixing with my oil
A Timing Chain Driven Water Pump?
Stupid Design, made to increase Stealership bottom lines!
Makes room in the engine compartment, but causes your engine to fail... All vehicles I owned for the last 40 years needed a new water pump at some time. Luckily, all had an external water pump!
FORD BUILDS' JUNK !!!!!!! 777, PROVE ME WRONG !!!!!!!
Scotty, you should consider making a video that is a compilation of such items as this one for people to use as a checklist for when searching and evaluating cars for purchase.
Kinda like volkswagens timing belt driven high pressure fuel pump that was prone to failure anyway.
Sounds like an intentional design flaw to limit engine life.
Yep......
Its working
Thomas Blaine
"sounds intentional "-doesnt equal- "absolutely intentional"
Ford DOHC V6s(Mazda V6), & Nissan VQ, Vk, & VR engines
were derived from timing belt engines that left the water pump *inside* the timing cover to *save exterior space*.
Ford V6s & Nissan V6-V8 engines arent known for having their timing chain water pump failing very early in life.
Ive met plenty of Ford standard & Ecoboost 3.0-3.7L V6s that had never been opened in over 250K miles
I have plenty of friends who crossed 230-250k miles in Nissan V6s & V8s & had never the front of the engine opened....
If both the Ford & Nissan owners had to open their timing covers...
It would be after 13-15 years of service!
@Thomas Blaine you might think that but it's far from true ,,Pontiac had the Quad 4 back in the early 90s and it has a timing chain driven water pump ,,those engines easily reached 250K miles if maintained ,,and GM recommended replacing the timing chain and tensioners at 150K miles ,and they also suggest replacing the water pump at that time due to the complexity of the job
another engine of this design is the follow on engine to the QUAD-4 the GM ECO-Tec engine ,,millions of GM cars from 2002 till today , all of GMs small cars used this engine for most of the last 18 years ,,my sister had a 2003 chevy Cavalier that made 256,000 miles before a balance shaft broke inside the engine
@Ernest Cazenave I personally dislike the Ecotec engine , my primary reason for this is it's TINY cartridge oil filter ,,we never had any of the commonly associated problems that Ecotecs normally have ,specifically the headgasket problem ,it ran perfectly up till the day it broke ,only thing i ever did to it was maintenance ,oil/filter every 3500-4000 miles and filter every 2000,airfilter every 20K ,sparkplugs at 100K and again at 200K,,it had a habit of using 1 quart of oil between changes that never got worse ,,when the motor died my sister just bought another car rather than fixing it cause the then 14 year old car just wasn't worth spending $1500 on a used engine
Wow, thanks. Keeping an eye out for that one. Ya know? It seems if you buy any company's new car you're just opening yourself up to
getting it up the kazoo for SO MANY reasons. They keep coming up with new SNAFUs from bumper to bumper (they don't even have those anymore!!).
I've had 5 cars with a timing belt driven water pump. They're all designed to be replaced with the timing belt. The problem is when they fail between changes and/or they have timing chains that have longer service intervals.
It's really a toss of a coin. If you change yourself, think twice about getting a generic water pump or plan on a timing belt/water pump swap at about half the normal schedule.
The moral of this story, "Spend money on ROUTINE MAINTENANCE!" In the United States the average driver does not even THINK about maintenance or a car repair fund until the vehicle gets in a really bad way or leaves them stranded on the side of the road.
It's called "Planned Obsolescence"
Yes it is.
@@shawnhampshirehick101 The backbreaker to PO was the Engineers were designing on life cycles to match new car loan repayment financing of 36-48 months. By the time the engineering designs got into production of new models, price inflation required extension of the loan repayment periods to 60 months and now 72 months or more. Therefore the vehicle is worn out before it is half-paid for. The result is absolutely accountant stupidity in the Board Room-like fish, corporations die from the brain, not the tail.
@@eddydavid7025 Agreed. It is tough to build a car for people who realistically should be on foot, a bus, or a bike.
Does toyota have it ? Maybe but not so shameless 👍
Engineering dept: Take a component that doesn't give much trouble and - fix it !
NO! We have forward thinking which makes financial sense. More replaceable parts should be designed that way. Everyone likes new, we just give a reason for an upgrade, the least consumers can do is be thankful!!
Yeah it’s stupid to build something with inherent failures that destroy major components.
Engineers: if it ain't broke, break it. It it's broke, ignore it.
Year 2050:
scotty: my celica still runs fine it's good as new
.....and it STILL has only 240,000 miles.
He could buy a Jaguar and have it be just as reliable.... Because he never drives his personal car!
@@carlthefriendlyllama2126 poorly built cars break down even from sitting unlike good quality built cars you can keep it sitting for years and come back hook up a battery and it starts right up
@@carlthefriendlyllama2126 I guarantee you out of experience with a friend's Jaguar, the Jaguar will cost you more as a lawn ornament, than driving a Lexus daily.
In 2050 Scotty's Celica and B52s still in use
When changing my water pump on my 1975 Monte Carlo (with a 350 engine, the most time-consuming part was cleaning the new pump and prepping it for paint then waiting for the paint to dry!😂😂😂😂😂😂 The rest was easy!
A sbc makes life really easy; I love it
Wish they still made slant 6 engines from the 70 & 80 now that was simple reliable engine and easy to fix. Plus u would get 500.000 miles and longer if u actually maintained it...
Uhhhh no....... I helped restored and owned a 1963 Falcon 144 I-6, a 1965 Mustang Notchback 200 I-6 and a 1967 Mustang Convertible 200 I-6. I was lucky to get 150-160K out of these engines. My Dad told me that the Continental long stroke in his Studebaker needed a ring and valve job around 60k! Metallurgy has come a LONG way since the 1940's-John in Texas
@@TheGearhead222 I couldn't agree more! I'll take a modern engine over an antiquated engine any day of the week!
My Dad had a Plymouth Volare with the slant 6. As long as it didn't rain, that thing was awesome until the rust started :(
Slant? You mean inline 6?
@@かんぐちあき Both. Chrysler sold inline 6 cylinder engines that were slanted instead of upright.
Sounds to me like a Cash Cow for car dealership Service Department !
Correction, its just a reason for people to upgrade. Who doesn't like new and shinny? Get with the times, forward thinking is what makes American great!!
@@rubear1848 "upgrade" as in spending $30k every 4 years because car companies can't be fucked keeping parts in stock or making everything sealed and unreplaceable? I'd rather not.
Correct. Dealerships make most of their money from workshop repairs. And manufacturers need dealerships in order to sell cars. So manufacturers make things labour intensive so the dealerships can charge more for repairs...or sell them a new car.
@@bigdorkification I wish you can just order your car on the internet directly from the manufacturer
The 2008- on cars/trucks are especially hard to work on & have serious design flaws/obsolescence built-in.
Now if a new vehicle builder came along , able to field a well-designed, reliable, and easily user-servicable product, would that change the paradigm, or would "the big three ( Ford, Chevy Dodge)"gang up and destroy the upstart competition, like they did with Tucker Motors ?
I remember 2 or 3 decades ago older people saying, "I won't buy a foreign car! Buy American and support our jobs." That same guy now drives a Toyota Avalon. 'Nuff said! 😷
Short-sighted eyes on the profit margin. It's the American way. Shareholders rule what the companies do. Remember Hewlett-Packard a decade or so ago?
Isn't the Avalon, like many other Toyota's, manufactured in US factories?
I once saw a buy American bumper sticker, on the bumper of an ISUZU suv! Way to practice what you preach buddy. Lol!
Toyotas are made here and the Chevys are made in Mexico so....
Like my dad, a die hard Buick man. So pissed at me for buying a Toyota. Last car he owned was a Camry, he said it the best car he ever owned....
"Oh yeah I'm getting better gas mileage... but yet the repair, insurance and other costs exceed that, that's okay, I'm saving the environment!" Idiocy at its best. Sad.
Great vid as usual Scotty. Exposing THE TRUTH.
Hes not saying anything revolutionary, and its not a common issue for people to have, if anything timing chain driven water pumps have been known to go over 200k miles non issue.
Get EXCELLENT gas mileage sitting in the yard broken down.. lol
@@fernandogonzalez5770 200k miles is not a lot
@@nils6177 200k is more than most people will go in a car, ive taken a camry to 480k, but i recognize that many other cars that arent toyota lexus wont hit more than 250k without issues.
and is overall worse for the environment because youll need to trash your old vehicle
Those engines are definitely a scam. As an engineer, I can't understand how anyone can build such a thing.
Perry
All of Scotty's examples were re-adapted Japanese engines that used to run timing belts & powered that water pump with the timing belt.
All of Fords DOHC (Duratec) V6s were designed & pulled from Mazda.
Mazda used to run timing belts in their V6 engines in the 90s. When the 2000s came mazda decided to readapt their V6s to timing chain drive to improve reliability & improve consumer faith.
But Mazda didnt want to reenginer the V6s significantly- *so they left the water pump in place ran the pump with the chain*
& finally the story remains the same about Nissan VQ,VR.& VK engines,
& it still remains the same story with Subaru H6s & timing chain F4s
Perry
One more thing I forgot to say:
just because the water pump is buried inside the timing cover & driven by timing chain
*doesnt make them inherintly unreliable*
Examples:
👉The 2016-2019 Ford GT ran the same DOHC TT ecoboost V6 from the F150, & explorer.
*So that means it used a timing chain water pump*
They ran Le mans & never had a single engine failure, & never had an engine failure throughout the WEC.
👉Nissan uses many variants of the VQ, VR, & VK engine to run endurance races,
(The VR is the turbo Variant of the VQ, & the Vk is the 90 degree V8 derived from VQ)
*all of them use the use timing-chain water pumps, & they never have failed from cooling issues*
One example is- *the whole
2017-now LMP2 field*
They all use a modified Nissan VK45 engine.
& oh boy, they're known to take a thrash!
VQs have won many awards for reliability. This issue is EXTREMELY RARE. He's not necessarily wrong, its a huge issue if the water pump fails but its no scam. Don't believe everything this guy says.
It makes the engine package a couple of inches shorter. The shorter engine allows a longer multi speed transmission.
On the Fords, RWD vehicles with the 3.5/3.7 Duratec engine (F150/Mustang) have external water pump. FWD vehicles (Explorer/Edge) have internal water pump because there is less room with a transversely mounted engine.
Remember the Chrysler 2.7 litre V6? Nobody learned from Chrysler’s mistakes? Now these are all much better than Chrysler’s old 2.7 but they’re definitely prone to oil dilution if the pump or seal fails. It’s like to save money they hire the least qualified dummies to engineer their powertrains. Apparently it costs too much money to hire someone with the right experience and training.
I thought for sure Scotty was going to go off on the pentastar V6, but it turns out they "inspired" others. Yay...
Everybody likes to blame the engineers, but they were just given a set of requirements. The bosses wanted an engine with significant power that can fit in as many models as possible to reduce costs. There is no way to fit a engine of that size transversally for a FWD and put a 6 SPD transmission for better fuel economy in the bay size provided without compromises. The fact that on RWD cars with similar engines have the water pump external shows the engineers were aware. So don't blame the engineer, blame the asshat product manager that gave them the requirements.
Some chrysler v6 engines have that issue too, like the 2.7.
Anything chrysler is crap!
Yet the early fours in the K cars ran forever if you changed the timing belt as specified. I bought a rust bucket Dakota for the rear end that had the V6 with a quarter million plus and the lower end is still tighter than Taylor Swift’s c....ontract.
My wife owns a 2019 Ford Fiesta 1ltr ecoboost engine and after a year it ended up in the garage the solenoid for the variable valve timing was broken they didn’t even stock that part in the uk so had to get it from abroad, cars are not made like they were used to that’s for sure. Love the show scotty keep up the good work from everyone in the uk and you all stay safe
NeoYami do you not read reviews before buying a car? Shame on you for buying that disaster of a car.
@@er1115 Probably because that Ford 1L ecoboost engine won "Engine of the Year" award for 6 years in a row.
Nevey buy american cars specially with small engines.., theyre still not good at it. Period.
On the Nissan VQ engines, there is a access door that enables you to replace the water pump without pulling the entire timing chain cover off. Actually, there are two access doors. One for the water pump, and another that enables you to take tension off the timing chain in order to get the pump off. There are videos right here on YT that show how to do it.
So, in summary.... make sure you follow the manufacturers' recommended service intervals. Good advice.
In all the years I've driven cars, I've only had 1 water pump failure and 0 timing belt/chain issues. This includes cars with external and internal water pumps, chain and belt driven timing chains. The only ones I've ever heard about breaking are from friends and family that never did the manufacturers' regular service intervals. There's a reason they recommend specific intervals.
The most common coolant problem I've had is a hose breaking or leaking. The worst problem I ever had was a radiator blowing out the bottom seam and dumping coolant on the road (at 60 MPH).
Wow bring back memory's of my Dodge intrepid . Went to change it . I junked it .
Same here. 2000 dollars to fix it at 68K miles, then the engine started a slight knock at 80K. Got rid of it and traded in for a 2011 Crown Victoria.
Well, Toyota still knows what they're doing. Their newer engines have electric water pumps. No chain, or even belt for that matter. An independent device that just needs some electrical connections. I like it.
With electric fan too?.
I think that new Supra engine like that is a German BMW design though.
Scotty has always been a fan of electronics that never go bad lol
catsspat The Toyota maker is the standout winner of the most reliable cars on Earth. F$&@& the loser rest.
I wonder how long the alternator will last....
It's a good concept but electrical energy has to come from somewhere......
Thankfully on my 2018 Subaru, the water pump is external and serpentine belt driven.
I have a 2015 Outback with the 2.5L FB11 engine. The water pump is easy to access like on Scotty's Celica.
Preach it, Scotty! It's a shame how non-serviceable and failure-prone newer engines are!
Maybe they should start calling references when these engineers apply for a job 🤣
They don't care what happens after the warranty ends.
I think the bigger problem is design by accountants.
@@timkaldahl Accountants just do what the executives tell them to do
@@msnpassjan2004
"Accountants just do what the executives tell them to do."
Exactly, what the Nazis told to the tribunal as a defense at the Nuremberg trial.
They still got a guilty verdict and got hung.
Everybody would think twice before following orders if that's was the case.
"Hey, I might lose my job but heck, I'll survive (in the literal sense)."
@@sylvainmichaud2262 By that logic everyone who has a job would be in jail for the crimes of the executive.
Toyota should hire Scotty to oversee all engineering and production.
why? they seem to know what they;re doing. maybe ford should hire him
@@trippplefive then ecoboosts will go out of production and we'll have reliable Fords again, heck maybe we'll get back the panther platform
Ryad Hasan Ahmed
You see the problem with that is, Ford is making all these ecoboost engines because the EPA and federal government keep pushing for higher and higher corporate average mpg’s. So Ford makes these stupid engines to make their vehicles look more efficient on the EPA’s controlled testing, when in reality, they suck.
trippplefive Toyota is producing a brand new vehicle that doesn’t let you fill the gas tank over 3/4 full. Maybe they should hire him.
@@darkdog535 this is only happening with American made models the RAV4 Hybrids that are made in Japan are fine
That water pump setup on your 94 Celica is a nightmare compared to my 72 Dodge Ram.
bleuflamenco the water pump on that celica is a nightmare compared to my 2002 F150
@@jibrilsarabi2908 well now we're talking about front wheel vs rear wheel drive
yeah he said that is easy to change in like 30-60 mins and I thought hell no!
bleuflamenco the water pump on the ram is a nightmare compared to my 66 GMC V6! Just a flange w/a pump on it.
Subaru 3.6L engine has been discontinued
Sad I really love the engine without turbo and no direct injection. The new turbo 4 will be a problem with all that pressure
My 2012 ford taurus sel with 60k miles I've already had to replace the water pump and power steering pump
Thanks for the info Scotty. How about a Ford 3.5L Eco-boost in a 2018 Expedition, timing chain driven water pump?
Well now I'm going to be super paranoid about my water pump all day every day.
Change the antifreeze every 40k and regular oil changes should make it past 100k easy
I just bought one at the expected failure mileage😅 yey!
I agree with you 100 percent , it’s completely unacceptable that manufacturers put the water pump inside the engine behind a chain which empties the cooling systems contents into the crankcase . One thing you didn’t specify is that not All Ford Duratec 3.5/3.7s have that, just the transverse mount ones. The F150 and Transit Vans use a belt driven water pump on the outside that’s easy to change
I have a 13' focus se, 5 speed manual, 2.0 TIVCT non turbo. Timing chain driven water pump and around 165,000 miles. Replaced original water pump at 100,000 miles because the timing cover haf a SLIGHT coolant leak. 4-6 hour job if you lower the k-member with engine enough to access all timing cover bolts.
Does he really talk with his arms like that in "real life"? This guy is a hoot
Ross McDonald, HE'S A LEGEND ! LOOK HOW MANY SUBS. HE HAS . HE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING A ORCHESTRA CONDUCTOR, THE ITALIAN FROM TEXAS, AND MUCH MORE. HE'S GREAT !
He's a great guy, he's opening people's eyes...
I’m pretty sure Scotty only has one “mode”, it’s just Scotty being Scotty 😂; what you see on these vids is probably exactly what you get in real life!!
@@realenglish1932 Nah, more like ranting. My Subaru will outlast most everyone's cars! Let alone is safer and handles better.
I read a comment a while ago that said
If the engineers of the engine were in charge of doing work on it, they would be designed simpler
It is usually the pencil pushers that are telling the engineers what to do that are the problem
A long time ago (1970) when I worked fixing cars as a goff'er for some older German mechanics, they told me that English cars were often a nightmare to work on because they were designed by "English Gentlemen Engineers" that never had the experience of physically building or fixing anything. It's a social class thing. Upper-Class English always has someone else do their dirty, greasy work. In Continental Europe by comparison, Engineers started their training, in what is equivalent to our High School, by designing, building, and fixing their own simple machines. Consequently, they had a different design philosophy. I don't know if this is still true, but I once talked with a really old Swedish Engineer who confirmed that his early mechanical education included a similar 'hands on' approach!
@@RichardFreeberg , that European sensibility must've ended in the 90's, because European cars are a nightmare to work on compared to American and Japanese cars of the same era.
@@AbcAbc-sp1od I think you might have a point there. As another comment stated cost reduction was a key component as well.
If engineers were in charge, it might cost more.
Currently as of 2020 Subaru models have replaced the 3.6L flat-6 with the 2.4L turbo flat-4.
Yes but combine turbo in 4 cylinder with direct injection and no port injection, this engine will need to be update on his GDI video lol
Scotty have you ever changed a water pump on a Toyota 3.5L V6? It’s right up against the passenger frame rail. Service manual calls for removing the engine. Although I’ve seen some people tilt the engine to get it off and on.
My 2000 Ford focus had it's only breakdown in my driveway, after whining for twenty miles. Smoke and hissing...but she got me home. 175,000 miles and my uncle loves it! Owned it since 2000, my only complaint, a persistent wheel bearing problem..had to replace the bearings every three years. Don't get me started on my Oldsmobile Cutlass..200,000 and still had the hub caps!
The Nissan water pump has two gaskets. One between for the oil and one the coolant. There is same drain in between the gaskets in case the coolant leaks.
I guess every engine-driven water pump has that chamber with 2 gaskets separating oil and water. Even my motorcycle has it.
You right it have 2 big o ring that goes around the water pump , so in case of the pump leaks , the coolant will channel out to outside the timing cover .. I change a lot them before when I was a technician in a Nissan dealership
I have a 2012 Infiniti M37 and recently replace my leaking water pump. No coolant went into the engine (due to the chamber design... whew!). I had the engine oil changed at the same time anyway (just to be safe). As for the cost... fortunatley my local mechanic was able to do it for about 1/2 the dealership price... but still came in at ~ $800 USD (incl. taxes, labour, parts, and the afore menetioned engine oil change).
Yeah, so in other words it is a bad design since you had to change a lot of them..
@@ralphw1804 So what your saying is that you would of had to pay $1,600! but since you found a mechanic who did it for 1/2 price, you're happy with a $800 water pump repair bill versus a $60 one as Scotty said..
Engineers HAVE to think of new ways of doing things constantly to avoid becoming obsolete. There is no requirement they actually IMPROVE anything, as long as it is new (or recycled from a previous engineer's work).
The 3.5, 3.5 EcoBoost, and 3.7 in the F-150, Transit, Mustang, and Expedition/Navigator don’t have the timing chain driven water pump. Those are the only versions of that V6 I would buy.
Yes thank you! This is a big misconception that they have the internal timing chain driven pumps.
I wouldn’t buy any ecoboost
Yes because the engine mount was in the way on the edge and explorer. I’ve had two of these engines and enjoy everything about them , it’s too bad they screwed that part up.
Yes, the RWD versions don't suffer from this issue, the FWD (or AWD based on a front driver), do
I have a 2014 Ford flex 3.5 2wd, the water pump is internal
Loss of lubricity? What a big word! Lower main gone. The bearing weeps and leaky leaky.....
Valery Legasov: The boron control rod stops the reaction but first, the tip made of graphite enters the reactor which accelerates the reaction.
Judge: Why do we make them that way?
Legasov: The same reason why we do not have containment structures or use properly enriched fuel...it's cheaper!
This sort of thinking sucks with cars too. Thanks for exposing this Scotty!
I recently found out what an interference engine is when my timing belt blew on my Ford fiesta. Hope to have it back in the next week or so.. When the new engine is installed🤣🤣
A wise man once told me.. "never marry a vehicle". He was my mentor at the Cadillac dealership.. HA HA! Northstar engines did put his kids through college though..
Ford “built tough” more like built tough to keep 😂😭
iheartsupra111 I think it only applies to the 6 cylinders only. I doubt that the 5.0 Coyote V8 has this kind of negligent design flaw
andrew belmudez And it also doesn’t apply for Ford vehicles that are RWD.
@@andrewbelmudez6985 No, it only applies to the 3.5 and 3.7 DURATEC series of 6 cylinders. Not the EcoBoost or Cyclone series.
Bruh 💀💀💀
Ford
Fix
Obnoxious
Rust
Daily.
I HAVE A 2012 FORD FUSION SE WITH A 2.5L NON TURBO ENGINE. IT HAS AN EASY TO REPLACE EXTERNAL WATER PUMP. 200,000+ MILES, 30-33 MPG. BOUGHT NEW AND CHANGED OIL EVERY 5,000 MILES, RELIGIOUSLY. LITTLE MAINTENANCE AND NO RUST. IT IS A SOUTHERN CAR. FINIS PAX
The F-150 & Mustang with 3.5 & 3.7 have external water pumps. Taurus, Explorer, & Edge with 3.5 & 3.7 have timing chain. I got lucky, my '13 Taurus starting leaking out the weep hole at 160k. Was $2,700 at the Ford Dealer. Only reason I did it was the cam lobes had ZERO wear marks and no sludge build up at all.
Why would anyone give Scotty a thumbs down it's beyond me.
Stealership
rev up your real pain in the rear end to access, expensive to repair, dimwit designed, internal installed chain driven oil soaked water pump fitted engines!!
9:19 - Yeah, it’s as if the manufacturers who build the cars don’t want them to last forever...
Josh Bacon If you know how, and when to service and take care of your vehicle, it will last a very long time.
thats the point , they dont want vehicles to last...there no profit in it,
When it’s time for a new cell phone, it’s also time for a new car. Perpetual indebtedness. Same goes for credit cards, you pay down your account and then they increase your interest rate. Oh and Subaru doesn’t get a pass either, I’ve seen many with blown head gaskets. 40 year home mortgages, everything interest up front. The best policy is to save up and pay in full and take no loans, but that is almost unattainable for most people with a normal job. Systematically keeping us in want, need, and debt. Everything is planned and failure of every vehicle built to fail. I drive commercially and we have a repair shop on site. My Cummins turbo diesel had abs brake module failure on international 2015 box truck. Mechanic diagnose and replaced part but we still needed to tow my vehicle to dealer to had the new parts reprogrammed! Every vehicle maker does this now, so find the car maker that has the lowest featured flaws. Good luck all!
Yep got to agree.... hate engines like that you left some out ...Chevrolet's 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec are chain driven water pumps and as is the old quad 4.... those engines they put them in the back somewhat underneath the exhaust manifold.... basically when they quit making the quad 4, they started making the Ecotec 2.2 ...similar engine.. water pump in the exact same location...
Thanks for the heads-up on these engines Scotty! The public has been warned. A poor design will cost you money down the line.
Scotty's hands have taught me a lot.
Lol 😂
I just found out about this on my Lincoln mks the hard way. Total engine replacement, under warranty 😁
Scotty can you please list these cars with the chain driven water pump so I NEVER buy one! Thank you.
Hey scotty you’re absolutely right about ford 3,5 engine. I own a 2011 Ford Taurus SEL and I had the same issue two times in 9 years of using even though I take a good care of it and done all the services perfectly. I’m stuck with the thing waiting for it to be totaled any time soon. It’s fine now but it cost me a fortune to fix. Good cars but absolute garbage when broken.
I just did a water pump on a taurus. Ford quoted 11hrs for the job. It was mind blowing how difficult it was, step one was take off the air intake on the other side of the engine. Luckily the engine got to stay in the car for the repair, not true on all Ford's tho.
Endless money pits, every single one of ‘em.
2:56 Is the reason why they did it that way. Essentially you will experience this when you didn't want to have it serviced under warranty (because they replace this under dealer periodic servicing), trying to save by DIY'ing it and forgot to change it or out of warranty. Either way it is a nice little booby trap penalty for trying to save by not having your vehicle serviced by the Stealership so they can get your money (profits).
Also a great way to cut the life cycle of products reducing the 2nd hand market (seen as a drain on profits) and forces people to buy new so that the manufacturer receives the most profit.
) p.o
Well I have a Ford Escape and my wife has a Subaru Crosstrek so I'm all ears.
Edit: Seems like we are good. My Lease on the Escape is almost done anyway and I am going to buy a Rav4.
Kyle , your a smart man. I think you will find the RAV4 much nicer than the Ford Escape. 😃
My wife's Nissan has 210,000 miles and never had this issue. My 2010 F150 just turned 135K miles and so far so good. Bought both new.
Mike Miller
Ive seen plenty of F150 V6 trucks drive past 200K miles without a single cooling issue
I own and currently am rebuilding a 2011 ford taurus sel due to water pump failure. I was lucky and got it in my shop right before catastrophic failure.
check the oil often...it looks like a latte...stop driving it and change the pump pronto