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This movie doesn't work in HD the granny looked worked with the dark setting it looked live action. And the elves are creepier then the Halloween creatures and I see how painted on all the textures are
I like Sally. When I was young, I thought she was obsessed with Jack. But now as an adult, she's really a kind person who is a victim to a possessive scientist. And she tries to help Santa leave that horrible place. Even though jack and his village live in horror because it is Halloween town, I think jack banished oogie boogie because he had a more sinister view.
The fact that Danny Elfman actually admitted that this song was projecting his own identity crisis while he was processing his lack of enthusiasm for his band at the time, breaks my heart. He was so relatable to me as a child but even more so as an adult
@@Xeavone he even went so far as to say that h felt so connected with this song that he asked to be jacks singing voice at least. at the time it wasn't confirmed that he would actually be doing the voice and not just composing the songs. And you can really feel the passion and the longing in his voice in the movie. He really put his whole heart into it
every year on halloween at 11:46 pm, my brother and i play The Nightmare Before Christmas, so that when it turns to November, “What’s This?” starts playing, kicking off the Christmas season ♡
7:43 Basically this song: "Well, I ruined Christmas, but at least I had fun doing it. Anyway, back to Halloween." I'll give Jack this, he knows how to bounce back from his failures.
True 😂 There IS a very important lyric there: "I hope there's still time to set things right." Which he then goes to do. Part of bouncing back from failure is doing what you can to clean up your own mess in the first place.
Santa, touching the side of his nose, is a nod to the poem The Night Before Christmas, where, at the end, Moore writes: "And laying his finger aside of his nose And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose."
I never understood Sally as a young girl. She was too soft for me, and as a rowdy one I couldn’t relate. Wasn’t until I got older that I understood her. She is always right, and no one listens. That makes you quiet, and broken down-but, that doesn’t make her less a rebel. She runs away, jumps out windows, is clever and won’t be silenced. She just wants to find someone who listens. Her life is one of darkest of all Halloween Town, so she understands the beauty of Christmas. Her softness is her strength. Nightmare Before Christmas is my favorite movie of all time, one I’ve watched over and over since I was a kid to the point of memorization. It has become my sons favorite movie. It has been a different experience to watch it after growing older. I’m so excited you did this.
@bambicrandi, have you read her book/origin/epilogue story? It’s called “Long Live the Pumpkin Queen.” It makes the reader appreciate Sally even more for both her kindness and her quiet courage, especially when she recognizes those as her strengths, too. It’s very well written and expands the holiday worlds apart from Christmas town and Halloween town.
I don't know when you grew up, but in the 90s and 2000s (and before that too) all those virtues were seen as "lesser than". It was a cultural issue. It's nice that nowadays we can give softness and kindness the importance they deserve.
I am reminded of the Greek myth of Cassandra. A Trojan priestess who was given the gift of prophecy by Apollo, but also cursed by having no one take her seriously.
Oh, my wife and I always felt like Jack was an artist without a challenge, and he saw Christmas as a challenge but never expected to fail... In the end he just expanded his horizons and understood how to challenge himself
I think the reason Jack and Sally don’t interact a whooole lot during the movie is because they want you to assume they’ve been friends since before it, which is why Sally could tell something was going on with Jack. His behavior in the movie isn’t normal for him, but yeah if you don’t assume that their romance is honestly really funny lmao A few months ago they released a comic recently that confirmed they knew each other as kids, along with some history on Jack and Oogie also. Knowing that aspect of their dynamic honestly makes them really sweet to me.
Theres also a lot of indication that Sally has been sneaking around the town and hanging out with everyone for a long time. The Halloween song at the beginning of the movie has a line specifically for sally and the wind ("I am the wind blowing through your hair"- Sally is the only one with long hair) and we know that they start preparations a year in advance at least. The mayor had plans premade the day after they finished. I kind of feel that if this movie had a show, we would be following Sally as she sneaks around and makes friends with the hanging tree/others and keeps her shenanigens secret from her father. The movie followed jack, but Sally was the one having the character growth before this.
This helps a lot actually bc when I first saw it, the ending romance came completely out of nowhere in my view. I didn't feel like it was earned and so it didn't resonate with me at all :(
jack singing to the towns people about christmas reminds me when you try and explain something u love and are excited about to the people u care about and they dont or cant understand and how disappointing that can be when you want to share the joy u feel with them
This is very common feeling with me. I just stopped talking to my family about my interests entirely because they either don’t get it or don’t react in the best way.
I know we gave my dad crap as kids about his niche interests: "bla bla blah rivets bla bla blah yaw bla bla blah aileron rolls... Lemme show you the model..." but we picked up more than we might have expected just from his sheer joy and expanded our knowledge, like the Halloween Town citizens at the end of the movie. Can't give you the entire Smithmasonian or Dayton Air Museum tour over the phone like he can, but I've found ways to relate it to my own interests and encourage him with in the vein of "I know just enough about your hobby to know it makes you happy." Not everyone is going to get your interest or even give it much of a chance, but sometimes that blank stare is just the inner hamster wheel spinning in the background, connecting "huh. Weird thing = stuff my friend/family member likes. May bring it up next time I see them or call them if I encounter it elsewhere."
I love how Sally is the only one who is genuinely excited by the discovery of Christmas before Jack's Halloween framing. It shows a rare chemistry that illustates their romantic connection later on.
There's also the fact that it seems that, in all his years as the Pumpkin King, Jack has never faced any opposition from the residents of Halloween Town. They just go along with everything he does and give him the utmost praise no matter what he does. His first entirely new experience in years is when he visits Christmas Town, and his first real challenge in years is trying to explain to the townsfolk that not everything is about scaring and fear. Jack slides back and ends up making this hybrid holiday kind of out of frustration at the town being seemingly unable or unwilling to actually listen and learn about these new concepts, and being unable to explain them in ways that they'll understand properly. Now that I think about it, imagine if Jack had taken everyone on a field trip to Christmas Town. I get the feeling it would be like a single teacher trying to keep a class full of overexcited toddlers under control.
I see Jack and the residents of Halloween Town being rather... innocent. They jump so easily into Christmas with such enthusiasm. Jack wants something new, but when he finds it his first instinct is to share it. Everyone gets so excited by the thrill of this completely new and, to them, alien thing, and like anyone is capable of but especially the innocent-minded, they go overboard really quickly. While the theme of this movie is to to appreciate what you have, the sort of secondary thing is also to find compromise which actually comes from Santa at the end of the film. He fixes Jack's mistakes but then reaches back out to Halloween Town, bringing them snow and wishing them a happy Halloween in a show of forgiveness and sort of building a bridge of friendship in a sense. The reality is that this movie has a lot of little messages and themes mixed throughout it, and in paying attention you may find more with each subsequent watch.
An educator I knew once told me she uses the premise of the film to teach the differences between cultural appropriation and cultural exchange, since they're often conflated and confused for one another. She doesn't think it was an intended read of the film, more of a happy accident. But there's a really stark distinction between how Jack steals and twists Christmas in his own culture's image and how Santa willingly shares Christmas with Halloween Town by gifting them a nice little snowstorm.
Yes!!! I love Jack and I've bought so much merch (tbh this movie was my obsession for the entire 2022). That said I always joke that Jack is a colonizer bc the way he sees a different tradition and takes it and perverts it, for lack of a better word. Also when Santa is leaving and he calls the town "backwards" I'm like "that's xenophobic, man". I absolutely love this movie and Jack, though
@@melodi2036 Jack's not a colonizer because he didn't impose Halloween culture on the Christmas town. It's just more straightforward cultural appropriation (taking the tradition and perverting it).
That's an interesting distinction. This helps me understand why Holidaze by Vivziepop has so many Nightmare Before Christmas vibes with none of the conflict. The two main characters engage in cultural exchange instead of cultural appropriation.
I have always thought that we only start to see the real Jack after he returns to Halloween after being blown out of the sky. When we meet him, he’s in crisis and doesn’t know who he is. When he goes back to Halloween to save Santa and Sally, we see him protect others (“how dare you treat my friends so shamefully!”), apologize and take accountability for his mistakes, magnanimously forgive Lock, Shock, and Barrel (it’s implied, anyway, when they hit him with the snowball), and finally see that he was taking Sally for granted. To me, the Jack we see in the third act explains why the folks in Halloween respected him so much in the first place. That was always who he was, he just got wrapped up in being the Pumpkin King and lost sight of himself.
My read on this movie was always if you make your entire life about your job, you're going to feel empty. You have to have more than that, like companionship and family, or the job will lose all meaning.
Yes, I feel the same. The residents of Halloween Town have passion and enthusiasm for their holiday, of course they do, but they put all the pressure onto Jack to lead them, to make it The Best Halloween Ever, every single year. He rose to the top because he was the best, and now they expect him to keep going over and over. None of them are friends to Jack, none of them challenge or oppose him. To be surrounded by so many and have no one actually seeing or hearing him must have accelerated all his other feelings about his role as The Pumpkin King.
Whenever I think of this movie, I think of Jack resting in the arms of the angel statue. It's like he was saved because he wasn't a bad person, but just confused. He was given another chance to fix things, and he jumped right in and did the right thing.
@@nerissarowan8119 I've often noticed that moment. He becomes the angel for a moment...a fallen (quite literally) angel reclaiming/finding his redemption
I watch this movie at both Halloween and Christmas. It's rare that you can find a movie that perfectly represents TWO holidays, but this is it! As for Jack is definitely an antivillain. I've always thought if him as a reverse Grinch, so obsessed with Christmas but his inability to understand it drives him crazy.
I would definitely agree. Because Jack is the hero of his own story, trying something new after centuries which gives him a sense of purpose. But the way he does it makes him evil in a sense that he doesn't grasp what he is doing is wrong. So yeah, he is an antivillain.
@@CinemaTherapyShow Speaking of the Grinch, would you do both Chuck Jones/Seuss and Illumination versions of Grinch’s story? I feel that Illumination’s version of the Tale is as important as the original version of the story, because the Grinch doesn’t hate Christmas, but rather the Clusterfest surrounding the holiday. I wouldn’t recommend putting the Live-Action version in the same category, because it de-valued the moral that the original story had; which is that the Whos love the holiday, whether or not they needed material things; which the movie went against just to prove the Grinch’s point, which is what I hate.
I truly feel "Poor Jack" showcases why Jack Skellington is the best at what he is. We already know he is great, he is the Pumpkin King after all. He enthuses all of Halloween town for Christmas, he gets everyone in on it, he delegates tasks to those best suited for it and puts Christmas together in less than 2 months. But what makes him the best is when he reflects, finds what he needs to do, and then commits to it with the same infectious enthusiasm he always had.
Yes! He's such an awesome leader to the people of Halloween town! He delegates appropriately, he gives constructive criticism kindly, he is genuine and caring towards his people. Also, Oogie Boogie is genuinely scared of him, implying that he's a bad ass when it comes to protecting people
One takeaway i've had on rewatch is also how important delegation is to prevent burnout. From how the Mayor acts, it seems like everyone really depended on Jack to basically do everything and lead everyone and make the important decisions. But then when Jack got everyone working together on Christmas, letting them contribute and add their own spin on things even though the meeting showed they didnt share his vision, it probably did give him something of a break and showed everyone the value of working together on things. And then of course also having Sally around, who cared about him as an individual and didnt put him on a high pedestal like the others did. So that is less pressure overall and gives him a chance to actually enjoy things and live in the moment more when it comes to his job.
"I'm ONLY an elected official! I can't make decisions by myself!" - Mayor of Halloweentown everybody. Probably the most accurate character to exist in real life 😂 But yeah, the delegation point is valid. Jack came up with the plans, he was the main man. The boss guy that everyone looked up to and went to for help and advice on stuff. The poor bony dude was burned out, he needed a vacation, a reset. Christmas was his reset, letting him get hyped up again and excited about life
"Don’t be a harsh judge of the people who don’t get it. Just find the people who do." That realization helped me leave a spiritually abusive environment a year ago and strike out into better communities. Well put!
Sally is my favorite character in all of cinema. She perfectly encapsulates the Cassandra character trope. The seer who is ignored. And that's a trope I've heavily identified with. That, along with her diverse knowledge of potions, foraging, sewing and pattern drafting, and general MacGyvering....
As someone with major depressive disorder(+ psychotic features), I find Jack very VERY relatable. Self loathing to the point of searching for a new identity entirely, thinking you yourself are the problem so you change everything about you. I always loved Jack, he’s my biggest comfort.
Yes! Yes! Yes! When I watched this movie for the first time, as soon as Jack sang his lament song i immediately thought, “oh, Jack has depression”. I would’ve loved to hear them talk about the movie from that perspective, but oh well.
@@back2thefuturefan88 “oh well” basically sums up how I felt watching this video. There’s so much in this movie, and I didn’t feel they did it justice. I guess they have to have something for the Patreon though.
23:53 What's cool about that is Santa like the Halloweentown residents only understands his own holiday, Sally is a ragdoll which is a toy, so i get why she'd be the only thing Santa would be able to figure out.
That's a good point. I always dislike how Santa is so mean to Jack. I understand being upset but he's just a bit cruel when all Jack wanted, intended was to give Santa a break and try Christmas out. Jack certainly should have talked to Santa first, but only saw Santa as a projection of his own tired self. Jack looked at Santa and saw someone just like him who might welcome a break for a bit. Jack just....doesn't communicate this and it causes problems.
@@Stargazer_Ley Jack told Lock, Shock, and Barrel not to involve Oogie in any of this, but Santa didn't know that and they did take him to Oogies anyway, hopefully Santa giving HalloweenTown snow means: 'alright we're good now.'
One more philosophical interpretation I got from this movie after rewatching it is that everything has its place. Halloween is good for Halloween time, but it’s a problem if it takes over Christmas (and vice versa). The kids that were terrified of the “Halloween” style Christmas presents would undoubtedly be disappointed if they had a Halloween with no monsters and ghosts. That being said, they can complement and improve each other.
Oh no! The Oogie Boogie song is the one song from this movie that gets play time on my Spotify. They're all great but for me, it's a cut above the rest.
I'm a St. Louis theatre kid, and Ken Page was an *institution* here - the booming preshow-announcer voice of the Muny, our huge outdoor theatre, and frequently appearing in its productions. It was a privilege to see his final few appearances on the Muny stage, and next summer there will sound downright weird without his signature "Good evening" welcoming everyone to the show.
Personally, the movie always spoke to me in an artistic angle - with Jack feeling like he's stuck in a rut, just like you said, he seems to have lost his passion. You likened it to a midlife crisis (which is a fascinating way to look at it too), but to me it always reminded me of how an artist or writer can suddenly find themselves in an artblock/writer's block. But discovering a new different hobby all together and just replacing the previous art form with that isn't a permanent solution. At first it may seem new and exciting, but it's not the same. It's all about finding that one spark again, the inspiration you need to pick up your brush or pen again. To relearn what about your passion was what made you love it in the first place.
I relate to this waaay too much. I've been stuck in a creative rut for years now. I'm not really sure how to regain the passion I once had for art and writing. It used to be a huge part of my identity ever since I was a small child, especially art. Now that I've lost my creative drive, I feel like I'm nobody. I don't know who I am anymore, like I've lost a huge part of my identity. I can see why Jack would try something completely new and different to see if that sparks his creativity again.
i was born in november. Nightmare before christmas has always been the one movie that falls perfectly on my birthday because of it being halloween and christmas. Growing up with sally and jack made me find what i wanted my love life to be in the future and it makes me so happy.
I was born on December 24th: the perfect time to be short-changed on both birthday and Christmas. I get it now; holiday giving is expensive, and getting gifts isn't as important to me. However, as a kid and young adult, I HATED it. I do tend to refer to the day before Christmas as Melindamass however.
As someone who watched all of these stop-motion movies as a kid, Coraline was the only one that actually scared me and I am obsessed with all of them. This movie is a cinimatic masterpiece, and is beautiful, and is amazingly written, I could go on forever.
I can’t be the only one who wants so badly to go behind every holiday door…I was always so curious what the heck the 4th of July and Thanksgiving doors would reveal!
There's a game called Lost in Random that has an art style which Nightmare Before Christmas fans may enjoy and has a whole town of double people. Some have two moods, some have a second face and personality on the other side, some have two bodies, etc. Can recommend looking into it. As well as The Midnight Walk.
Movies that I have watched for the first time because Cinema Therapy talked about them: Wonka, Encanto, Clueless, Soul, Howl's Moving Castle, Luca, Onward, Turning Red, Cruella, 10 Things I Hate About You, & Good Will Hunting... probably more. Love this channel! Thanks for all the work you guys put into these!
I've tried moving all over the country trying to give my life meaning. It turns out I actually have a big problem with vulnerability because of chronic loneliness and neglect since childhood. Jack's lament is something I relate too much with. I lost my identity trying to get my basic human needs met, without being vulnerable. It's cost me almost 2 decades. I'm still learning to be myself and discover who I really am with the help from a psychologist and my youtube therapy videos. Happy Halloween CT family
I love how the people of Halloween town don't understand what jack is going through, but support him and try to be there with him. I also love how jack (if you're using the midlife crisis metaphor) is not leaving the people he knows behind, he's including them in this new venture.
Something overlooked is how deep of a character Sally is. My own mother went through an incrsdibly similar life experience. How Sally's father was so demanding of her and how unsympathetic to her he was. How Sally felt the need to sneak out to have friends and help those in need and to go against the crowd to do what was right. Ans shes shaken with insecurity, wondering if shes worthy of being loved when no one around her expresses it. Only in her abikity to persevere that her friendship toward Jack leads to mutual friendship to blossom to something more.
I loved the beginning the most, not just because of the singing but because everyone sees Jack as the guy who has it all “the pumpkin king” but it’s a lesson in having everything isn’t what makes people happy.
I read an article stating that Jack is the "Reverse Grinch", in that he adores Christmas, but it ends up driving him insane. He could definitely be construed as having ADHD, from a therapist standpoint.
as a fellow Cassandra I appreciate this movie as one of the only reads that gives her a chance at a happy ending. When Sally gets the vision of how Jack's Christmas is going to turn out she's asking for a vision of how their relationship might go. She's looking for love, and seeing the obstacles she knows could come between them and wise enough to know that there might be unseen obstacles she's asking for help in getting clarity on what those might be. Her vision is right, not just in what the consequences are for Jack's choices but in how best to bring them together. He sees that she gets him when she sends up the bottle of wine with a smoke butterfly in it, it's why he trusts her with the most iconic part. He's in the middle of dealing with everyone else's doubts so he's not in the correct space to hear her when she expresses her concerns. The whole town has gathered to help him do something none of them fully get and he's having to make do with 1/10th results from misunderstood efforts. (Hence opening my remarks by comparing Sally and myself to Cassandra.) There's no room in his awareness right now to hear what someone who gets him is saying. I agree that it's obsession or hyper-focus that drives him through, I think that ties back to the read on midlife crisis. How often when we are in those crisis moments do we feel internal pressure to sprint as fast as we can at the perceived answer lest it vaporize before we can grasp it. With out a fear of mortality to work with they gave him a chronological deadline. If you want to steal Christmas this year, you have this many days. Normally you spend all year working on your holiday (we know because the mayor shows up bright and early Nov 1st to start planning and his attitude is "ok the crunch is on, let's get cracking") and now you've decided to do an all new one in 1/8th your normal time frame. So he's rushing himself and everyone connected to him towards this cliff with the intention of "we're all going to jump and fly and it will be AWESOME!" Everything Sally does to try and help, makes his Christmas better for him than it would have been, so that he learns his lesson faster. Everything she says shows her love and care, so that when he realizes his mistake he can hear her doubts about how it was going to go in a different light. When he asks her why she put herself in harms way to help fix his problems, he finally sees her motivation. So her vision at the start was not NOT an answer to the question she was asking. Just not an answer she would have seen for herself. (Ya know. like how most visions work) I love this movie because figuring out the riddle of Sally's vision (over about 20yrs of personal growth) helped me to see that it's no bad thing to have faith in myself. It's no bad thing to trust in my intuition even if it feels like it's pointing me in a counterintuitive direction. "Tell the person you love that they are wrong about their grand plan" doesnt feel loving, doesnt feel supportive, doesnt feel like it should bring you closer together. When I got those feelings, I rejected them. I didnt give warnings I should have. I didnt say "you dont look like yourself" when I saw people going against their nature. And it created MORE distance between us that I didnt. They accused me of with holding and of sabotaging them by not speaking out when I knew it was wrong. True Love isnt being your partner's Yes Man, it's being the person who can say, after making the perfect SandyClaws outfit, "you dont look like yourself" it's seeing who is standing there, and the hurt they are having, and helping them deal with it, while also helping them with their plan to deal with it and voicing any misgivings had about said plan.
I've been semi-seriously saying I was going to legally change my name to Cassandra for nearly 40 years. From one deeply dismissed "oracle" to another, greetings. Frustrating, innit? 😬
Lol, Thanksgiving was my dad's favorite holiday. I heard countless rants in the stores that used to put out Christmas stuff before Thanksgiving was over, about how nothing is sacred anymore, and "Is it too much to ask that we sit down and shut up for one damn day and be thankful for something?"
Poor Jack is a great example of "the greatest teacher failure is". Sometimes you just have to learn things the hard way. And Jack was able to really bounce back from his wrongdoings so well. I'm always impressed when i watch the film. He really does have a great personality.
One point i see is how it's all about incorporating changes with moderation and humility. Jack was so used to being effortlessly successful at being the Pumpkin King that he thought he could be just as successful as Santa at Christmas. The Dunning-Kreuger effect is there in Jack's life as he gets a little taste of Christmas and decides to be completely in charge of the holiday within a short time.
MY BELOVED JACK 😭😭😭😭 I never knew how badly I needed an episode analyzing him, he's a strangely relatable character to me, thank you!! Edit: As to how I personally intepret Jack, and why I relate to him: I was an expat in the US for almost a decade, from 2013 to 2021. As a European kid spending the full second half of her school years in an American environment, I was so amazed and enthralled by everything around me. I grew so much in my creative expression and versatility thanks to the freedom I found in school. I went to class every day craving to be an equal to these other teens that I found so passion-driven and free, I felt so at home there, and the longer I stayed there, the more convinced I was that that was truly my place, that Spain (my country) was so behind me and that I was more American than Spanish. But I wasn't home, really. The feeling of belonging in school, like school itself, is not eternal, for one thing, and eventually my family and I had to return to our country because we were never truly tethered to the US, and when we were in need of help, we had nothing to cling onto there - it was a momentary home that we deeply loved but we were never a part of it. Our departure deeply hurt us, but overtime I've learned to see this in a different and kinder light. Cause... honestly, the reason why my time in America mattered so much to me isn't that I became American, rather that America helped me finish my development as a person while I was growing up, expanding in my ideals, my knowledge, my flexibility, my perpective on things, etc., because I was raised in an American AND European environment. I was never here nor there, but an individual crafted by both places, and for that I am who I am today. And I still have so much more to learn, but I recognize now that I'm an adult that my love for my former home was always linked to personal growth, not belonging. Jack's love but deep-rooted misunderstanding of this brand new Christmas world is so relatable to me for this reason. It reminds me of my own possibly-failed attempts to enter the new exciting world I was suddenly placed in, discarding my old one behind because I no longer saw value in it. It takes actually returning to your roots and applying the things you've learned to develop an identity unique to you, rather than BECOME something you aren't and limiting yourself to being just one of your experiences. Hence the beauty of Jack's ending with Sally in Halloweentown, in the snow - he is still the Pumpkin King, but his willingness to grow his perspective and explore new things has made him something greater than that, as has it transformed his once-repetitive world into both his past and his future. (This is LONG, I got ahead of myself, sorry XD)
No worries on the length of the comment it was an interesting perspective honestly. I didn't get the chance to go abroad even in university (thank the pandemic for that). However I was fortunate to have a variety of interest in various cultures, religions, etc even when I was very young. Thankfully this was nurtured and I even got to visit some places I wanted to go to. While nowhere near the same it can be very enriching for self discovery to look at other, cultures, belief systems, or traditions and see what you like and what you don't. Honestly one of the reasons I have a deep love for the fantasy genre is getting to in a small way, explore a whole new world.
As an expat myself…born American and lived in Asia for 5 years - your story resonates and I’ll finally watch this movie through because of you sharing! ❤
I posted this in the Discord, but I wanted to share my views on Sally here, too. After all, I strongly relate to Sally. In the Director's Cut, I love that Jono points out how Sally truly sees Jack as a friend, always. As someone who has been on the unrequited love side of the house, I feel like that is what keeps her from becoming bitter. She genuinely has his interests in heart and wants to support him, but also keeps true to herself and doesn't change who she is in hopes that he'll see her worth. She is who she is, and that's that. Should she talk to him about her feelings? Yes. If she is like me, though, then I can understand her feeling of not being worthwhile. After all, she is the creation of a scientist who is trapped to do his bidding while he is the freaking Pumpkin King and town hero. This shouldn't define her worth, and she does what she can to thrive, but I could understand if this is her motivation. The following is all used in the episode, so I'll share my views on those scenes and respond to what the guys talk about. After "Jack's Lament", Sally says, "Jack, I know how you feel." I read this as she also feels trapped in her situation with the scientist and doesn't know what to do either. Her struggle is different, but she still empathizes with him, which is something that is unique to the both of them since everyone else in Halloweentown is content with their lives. When Jack comes back to describe the wonders of Christmastown, she is equally excited about it for two main reasons. One, there is something wonderful about seeing someone you care about being excited about a dream. As someone who is empathetic, it is easy to absorb that excitement and want to help them achieve their goals. Two, it would be something new for her, too. Something that could potentially break her out of her day to day life, thus making this a common goal for both of them. When she sees the Christmas tree vision, which no one questions so I imagine it's common for her, her desire switches. She instead realizes that Jack's dream will lead to a nightmare. To use the personalities that Jono and Alicia are fond of, Jack strikes me as a Dreamer. Every Dreamer I have had the pleasure of meeting greatly benefits from having someone who helps them stay focused, and not get lost in their many dreams that they have. Sally, the Healer, is doing her best to be this person for him. When she is in the dressing room, telling Jack that he doesn't look like himself, it's not because she's trying to make him stay the same. It's because she's desperate to save him from himself. Unfortunately, he's still too focused on this dream to see what's in front of him in Sally. In the scene that was ever so rudely cut off in the episode (I know, Alan, it was a mistake. I forgive you, even though you don't need it lol), Jack finally sees Sally for all that she has done for him, without expecting anything in return, while he was busy lamenting and dreaming. The end scene where Jack approaches Sally on the hill is the perfect transition for them to become friends and romantic partners. She's not just "a" friend. She's his "dearest" friend. He wants to join her at "her" side and is asking for permission to do this so that they can be together and build a future for both of them. That's. Freaking. Beautiful. Neither of them compromise who they are. They're just simply meant to be.
@@hannahpatwell5435 Same! I love that we're thrown into the world at some unknown point in their friendship and her unrequited feelings. It allows the viewer to fill in the blanks themselves. Absolutely brilliant.
A little anecdote here. When I was about thirteen I became obsessed with learning the lyrics for "What's This?". I didn't speak much English back then, so I had to learn them (mostly) phonetically. To this day I remember every word. To me, this movie was always about opening up to new perspectives and experiences without losing yourself in the process. In the end, they do have something new (the snow) and it's implied that Jack and Santa remained friends. But still, they stayed true to themselves.
For me Sally reminds me of girls who are in love with Idols and Singers but in a healthy respectful way. She wants to know lots about him and get close yes, but above all she wishes for his happiness and success. She understands Jack is like a celeb so doesn't remember she exist but Sally supports him whole heartedly.
Recently I've struggled with identity issues, depressive thoughts, not being comfortable with where I am. I relate to Jack in wanting to just, find something different to do. My read on it is that we can absolutely do that IF we don't do it as extreme as Jack did. Finding new perspectives in your own "line of work" (in the movie it's holidays) can be the bucket of cold water you need to remember the excitement and bring fresh ideas to what you love. Kinda like a rock musician going to a jazz gig and then going back with a whole new perspective and combining and making something new.
As a composer who’s kinda stuck in a rut myself (this came at the perfect time) I think this is a good idea. I’ve always found working with new instruments exciting and inspirational after months of the same things. (I play around on Studio One with stuff, mostly Spyro fan music ideas. 😆)
I kinda see this movie as an artist finding inspiration for their work through new experiences Jack feels burned out of being the Pumpkin King and leaves to find something new, he then finds Christmas and tries to make it apart of his work. By the end he realizes that the new ideas for Halloween were always there & Christmas was the catalyst to bring it out. Especially the song at the cemetery, Jack expresses that even though things went wrong he still had a lot of fun & it motivated him to not only fix his mistakes but also gave him new ideas for Halloween.
To touch upon the comment made at the end of the video about sharing new movies with us as viewers, I had never seen the Rocky movies before the video you all created about Rocky Balboa and his healthy masculinity, and as cliche as it sounds watching those movies genuinely changed my life in a massively positive way. I had never had a real strong role model that I could relate to growing up, especially concerning someone who went from struggle to finally achieving his sense of worth that he'd been looking for, which I have and still actively struggle with myself. Every day I find it hard to get out of bed, I think to myself "Rocky would want me to get up and face the day," and it works. So thank you to all hearts and minds behind Cinema Therapy but especially to Jono for his love of the movies and character alike. I'm right there with you, man.
I always read the message of this movie, in part, about being able to be in and appreciate other people's hobbies and spaces without taking them over or making them about you.
So I always connected with Sally as an empathetic person who sees others dismiss what will likely cause others pain. Feeling hesitant because of low self worth (at the time of watching at first) and the witch/clumsy side of her too. I also saw it mainly as a romance, and I'm fascinated that so many people found the romance as unsupported. It wa definitely a romance based on friendship, but I personally saw so many indications that they were particularly special to each other. That they were already friends, with Jack being her secret crush too and Sally being someone he finds fascinating because she's not like everyone else. Jack turning away from his groupies because he doesn't want someone to fawn over him for his fame, he wants someone who understands. Sally with the basket to care for him and gentle concern about his wellbeing. Jack seeing the beautiful luna moth and going Someone FINALLY Gets It and scrambling to hopefully see which gorgeous soul sent the pretty thing, while Sally hides in embarrassment and joy that her secret crush liked the gift. Jack saying "who else would I trust with something this important?" Her supporting him even though she thinks he's making a mistake. Sally actually saying he's making a mistake and trying to bring him back to reality, something none of his other friends or groupies would think to do - who would tell the Pumpkin King he's wrong? But to Sally, he's the man first, Pumpkin King second. I never liked that he dismissed her concerns, but I also thought that he was thinking she was just nervous. And then at the end realizing that she was right all along (with Santa directly pointing it out) and was there for him in a way no one else was, and understood him when no one else ever had. Almost losing Sally possibly woke Jack up to how important she was to him, and that she was a What's This kind of wonder and joy that could last. While Jack had always been important to Sally. So when he realized he cared for her, BAM, she was completely onboard. Her dream come true. Him coming to his senses in a way. Just how I always saw the movie- it was very influential for how I thought love should work, along with Beauty and the Beast (though less yelling for that one).
My read on The Nightmare Before Christmas has always fluctuated. Sometimes I read it as a mid life crisis, sometimes an allegory for struggling relationships, sometimes a lack of passion and interest in the pretty much anything, and sometimes a mirror to part of my life wherein I was just lost and felt pulled in too many different directions at once. That's what's so great about this movie, that it speaks to its audience on a number of levels and can be interpreted in so many ways. Its also why The Nightmare Before Christmas has such a huge fanbase: It's not (only) because its speaks to those who love the gothic aesthetic, as many people tend to believe -even though that is a part of it. It's the nuances of the characters, and how they reflect our own emotions throughout life in so many ways.
I've read it for a long time as Appreciation vs Appropriation. Jack starts by appreciating Christmas but quickly (even at the end of what is this) wanting it "for my own" and even 'oh i can do this better then they can' lets show them how good we can make this' while completely misunderstanding any of the whys. Very much like the panda express example.
Jack is my favorite anti Grinch. He steals Christmas not to destroy it but to share it. But he's sharing the wrong parts of Christmas because it's not lights or toys or the roast beast. It's about everyone.
For the record... I maintain the reason Christmas stuff keeps showing up earlier and earlier every year, pushing even HALLOWEEN out of stores... is because Santa's still pissed at Jack for messing up his holiday that one time.
Fun Fact: Tim Burton got his inspiration to create this movie (even though he wasn't the one who directed it) was seeing the Halloween decorations in a store getting taken down slowly as the staff started putting up Christmas decorations. I love the music and the animation of the movie, I even saw it in 3D at the theaters. My take back when I was a kid was how unhealthy it is when seeing something that is something that is new can be inspiring, but it can also lead you to an obsession if you are not careful. I had this when it came to fan art, I would print them off of my family's printer and tape them up all over my bedroom walls. I lost count of how many I had, but I think it was around two thousand, four hundred-something-something. I've taken them down but still kept a few up because I love art, and they sometimes help me to remind myself of where my inspiration for designing originated from. But for now, I'm saving them on a drive and to save the forest.
You guys are on a roll covering movies that I LOVE :D One of my favorite things about this movie is how Jack picks himself up after screwing up Christmas. He acknowledges his mistakes and his own feelings, but instead of moping about it until it's too late to fix it, he looks for the silver lining and for a solution within 1 song. Very impressive.
Continuing with the marriage comparison, Jack tries to find something completely different to Halloween, but finds happiness in his relationship with Sally. In marriage, generally (not in toxic relationships), what can make you happy relays inside of your marriage and not outside it. Outside can make you feel a thrill, but true and sustainable happiness means to reflect on things inside your marriage. I am not married but my relationship with uni was kinda like this. I was tired of college and academia, but instead of quitting I thought about bringing in things that I enjoyed the most. Maybe you can change one thing at a time, until you feel new passion within your work/marriage/ relationship/ situation.
Oh yeah sorry about the double comment but now that I've finished the episode I would like to mention that I was not a movie person before encountering this channel. You guys didn't get me to try one particular movie, you guys got me to try movies, period. And it's great because now I love movies. Thanks guys
Omg I HAD to comment after the Murder She Rolled ad because I felt proud of myself for recognizing that when Jonathan said "Gottman" and "Brene Brown" that I knew who he was talking about it. Also, I love how 4 of my worlds (mental health, cinema, goth stuff, and D&D) have collided in one video and I couldn't be happier lol. Murder She Rolled has been so fun to listen to. I wanna especially recognize Alan for the emotional depths he took his character to so far throughout the campaign in some unexpected and impressive ways. The whole cast is absolutely wonderful and the darn theme song is addictive, so warning about that lol. It's great, so I highly recommend. Love this interpretation of one of my favoritw movies and will be watching it again soon for sure.
It’s also quite poetic that Jack was voiced by composer Danny Elfman (who also did the score). Elfman was formerly famous at the time for being the frontman and brainchild to new wave band Oingo Boingo. When he started getting bigger in film he was having to divide his attention between the band and films and he’s expressed how he started to feel empty from the band and at around the ‘90s or maybe slightly earlier he left the band. Really REALLY poetic and perfect casting since Elfman could actually put that emotion to the performance.
My sister and her husband had given me a copy of The Nightmare Before Christmas on Blu-Ray, last Christmas, and it looks amazing in high definition! They also gave me a copy of a book that explains the making of the movie. I'm learning so much about the movie, from reading it. As for the movie itself, it sounds like Jack is someone who's trying to explain to a group of dysfunctional people what it means to be happy, but they just go and twist it around. That's what it feels like to share experiences of a happy childhood with someone who came from a more traumatic one. For instance, when I was still with my ex, I was telling him about how my sister and I grew up reading books, and he just assumed that Mom had forced us into it, but I explained to him that wasn't the case; it was because Mom wanted to share a love of reading with us. In fact, everyone in my family loves to read, but people who weren't encouraged to read like him didn't see it that way, since he came from a dysfunctional family. So, those who don't know joy don't know how it feels. Jack wants to bring the warmth of Christmas to Halloween Town, but all they know is pain and misery, so by the end of the movie, the snow fall that Santa brings to them brings them hope.
As weird as this is going to sound... I actually subscribe to the perspective that this is a Thanksgiving movie. We start with Halloween, yes, but notice how the movie ends: between Halloween and Christmas, with Jack having a fresher and more thankful outlook on his life. There are still remnants of the spooky season, the citizens are beginning to accept the arrival of snow, and Jack is starting to pay more attention to the one who has tried and failed to get his full attention, who loved him as he already was: Sally. (Seriously, their duet at the end is so beautiful; it's a wonderful way to end the film, even though they still have a long way to go in their relationship.) as an artist, I relate with Jack's desire to improve what he's good at by integrating his obsessions with his usual style. You can't be the artist you're inspired by. You can, however, take what you love about their work, and put your own unique spin on it.
Now that you pointed this observation out, this movie could very well qualify as a New Years Day movie too, since the movie actually ends on Christmas....and in a few days it will become the New Year due to January 1st So Jack declaring "Oh I just can't wait until next Halloween, cuz I got some new ideas that'll really make them scream!" By that time Christmas is over in this movie, New Years Day will come.....signaling that it will already be the next Halloween Jack has set in motion by then!
Will you please react to Gravity Falls? I’d say there’s plenty of themes for a therapist to explore in that show: 1. Sibling Communication (Stan and Ford vs Dipper and Mabel) 2. Manipulation (Bill Cipher) 3. Growing up (The entire show) 4. Isolation and projection (Ford and Dipper) 5. Family Trauma (Grunkle Stan) 6. Separation Anxiety (Dipper and Mabel) 7. Peer Pressure (Mabel and Gideon vs Dipper and the Manotaurs) 8. True Arrogance vs Masking Self-Hatred (Ford vs Stan) 9. Denial (Old Man McGucket)
15:05 this part to me shows how while you are struggling/striving for a new identity you blind yourself to something or someone who sees you and your struggles as well as seeing there true creative self or skills that only needs another’s perspective on ideas to get them out of their funk
The side of his nose thing Santa does is a reference to older stories about him. I think it’s mentioned in The Night Before Christmas. Basically he would the thing and just go flying up the chimney. Halloween is my favorite holiday and I like the horror movies well enough but my favorite Halloween movies are the cheerful ones that get me in the spirit. That’s why I love the Tim Burton movies and Scary Godmother. Sometimes Halloweentown as well though it’s not as cheerful. I love getting to dress up, get free stuff (especially food), and go out at night. You get to pretend to be someone you’re not and try new things. It’s just so much fun and I love getting to see other people enjoy it too
I am 23 and watched this movie for the first time when i was roughly 2 or 3 years old. My grandma showed me it and my mom thought it was too scary Lol. Cut to 20 years later and this is still my favorite movie ever. This is one of the few movies that i can quote from behinning to end ❤ And RIP to the legendary Ken Page❤❤
I've always read Nightmare before Christmas as a story about cultural appropriation vs appreciation. Jack was tired of his original culture and wanted to do a new one while the intention are good the actual new version was mockery/traumatizing. Find contentment in what you have because looking for something new all the time can be dangerous
I see that movie mostly through the lenses of Sally now that I really think of it. She's seeing her friend fall into a sort of manic episode. She's not against Jack finding new hobbies as we can see with the gift scene she gets excited too but she also see Jack's not himself. She tells him. He ignore it. And oh gosh I feel Sally on that one, the inability to reach him is one of the things that breaks my heart in this movie. Could feel like that feeling when you see a friend fall into depression, deny it and no matter what you do they just fall. But they need the fall in some kind of way ? Jack's become sad when he see that everything comes to shit and it's not what he wants. I'm french so I struggle a bit explaining my point of view😂 But yeah it would go denial, manic episode , acceptance of depression but also himself ? I have many many feeling about this movie I watch every year and every year I see something different
I watched this movies for YEARS because my best friend loved it! Now I can’t stand looking at it because it reminds me of her. She is no longer with us this movie just brings me sadness and a reminder of her. But I love this channel so much I had to watch this. I needed this this year thank you
The Nightmare Before Christmas is both the BEST Halloween and Christmas movie. 🎃 🎄 A timeless classic that will forever live on throughout my childhood! Tim Burton Is such a genius and visual artist. And Henry Selick is able to bring his gothic imagination into fruition.
I feel that this is more a Halloween movie because not only are all the main characters from Halloween Town but the majority of the movie takes place there
Idk if this matters in relation to your comment, but Tim produced and wrote it, but Henry Selick (his mentee) directed this. Then went on to do Coraline
@@melodi2036 true, but the story and the character of Jack Skellington started as a poem that Tim wrote while he was still an animator at Disney, long before the movie was ever made.
Hiya, guys! PLEASE add these films to your list! - About a Boy, Spanglish, In Her Shoes, Last Samurai, Joe vs. the Volcano, Shall We Dance, and P.S. I Love You... So many great themes of trauma, relationships, family, and healing.
YES!! I was waiting for this one, because I relate to Jack so much. Number one, I believe he might be in some way neurodivergent. But number two, I have gone through the same depression as him. I have been involved in this theater troupe where I found my feet in freshman year. But one day it shut down. No biggie, I started getting involved with my school’s theater. But as nice as the teacher was, it wasn’t the same. My first troupe was a Christian youth troupe with laid back, sweet, talented and humble people. But this new environment was more toxic and competitive, and… I began to fear that I was losing my love for theater. And I began to question if I needed to find a new outlet. But after giving it one more shot with another troupe, I found my footing again! Because like the first time, it was a group of sweet and supportive people. So… Jack’s Lament was my anthem in that period of time. But like Jack, it took mistakes and exploring to realize where I had lost my love for what I do and how to regain it. Also I love Jack and Sally’s relationship! It’s perfectly established if you’re paying attention! Nuff said. 😆
The conversation y’all had at 3:14 about routine made me think of the movie Perfect Days which I hope you’ll cover. It was also a film that I found myself to be inspired by just like this one
I watched this movie earlier this week and thought after, "I would love to see Cinema Therapy do an episode on this." So pleasantly surprised to see this pop up! Watching this again, I think Jack got burnt out from Halloween year after year which lead him to Christmas. And after it went south, instead of blaming everyone else completely, he acknowledged that he caused a problem and went to fix it.
What I love about this movie was the impact it had. All of a sudden spooky people had an in to secular Christmas and made it so much more inclusive. Since I was little, Christmas has been presented to me as the holiday when the outcasts (Rudolph, the Grinch, Charlie Brown) are validated, important, and included. Christmas is for everyone!
It speaks to me in a lot of ways but currently it’s about remembering the things that made me happy on their own and opening myself up to those things again.
I’ve seen three of the sets for TNBC (a local museum has them in their collection and they display them once in a blue moon) and for how grand rich the movie feels, the sets outside of the film are only like 18-24 inches tall, iirc. They look like very goth dollhouses. It’s amazing how much detail they get into that space too
That sounds so awesome! It's good to know some of the sets at least are still around; it's heartbreaking how many things like that get trashed without folks being able to appreciate all the love and hard work that get put into them. Thanks for sharing this with us!
I've related to Jack so many times and in so many ways throughout my life. In my late 20's I lost passion for my career, and went through my own "failed Christmas", only to end up very happy for many more years working in... Gothmas. I also relate to the level of self loathing that leads to want to leave our old "flawed" self behind and transform into something joyful and bright (I didn't know I was autistic until my 40's when I got diagnosed). Jack's Lament makes my eyes water every single time.
This is one of the movies that sentimental to me because one of my best friends died in a car accident five years ago and this was her favorite movie so thank you guys for looking over this masterpiece
I totally relate to the way Jonathan approached it. I ended a relationship not so long ago. I had this constant grass is greener feelings with other people, we tried doing new things and improving things, but it only seemed to take us farther apart. And like Jack, we tried pulling it off, but eventually it didn't work out.
It's been quite a while since I watched The Nightmare Before Christmas but I am glad to be seeing it again with the new perspective. Before gaining new perspective from this video, this movie to me is just about Sally is being right. She was right all along that Jack didn't being himself and that he has no need to change himself at all, especially how successful he is at the moment. But now that I gained the new perspective, I have come to understand Jack more. He felt empty and cannot deal with it. So as a result, he ventured to find the new shiny thing. But when that new shiny thing screwed him up one way or another somehow, he returned to where he belonged but with new ideas and possibly, new beliefs.
I haven't watched the movie in forever but my read is realizing you enjoyed a hobby so dearly that you practiced and made it your entire life. like an athlete who does nothing but their sport or an artist stuck in a single medium. They try something new and realize that being too excited and eager can make people think youre already trying to burn bridges when its not evil or wrong to have both
1:20 around Halloween time, I actually watch it up until the end of Oogie Boogie’s Song, that’s the last “Halloween” part of the movie to me. Then I wait until Christmas time and then I’ll watch it all the way through.
Nightmare before Christmas is one of those films that had to grow on me. I think this is one of those situations where, as I grew older, I came to understand, and appreciate it more. Like it started to resonate with me on a different level. Plus it doubles as a Halloween and Christmas movie lol.
A true comfort movie for me- I have watched it so much I know every little detailed movement. This movie helped me to see, that even though my life is dark and sad, I can still have fun and explore what's going on outside of the darkness in my life.
I watch this movie on Christmas, because Halloween warms my hearth way more than Christmas. Was fun to see your perspective on the best movie to watch on Christmas. Halloween just is permission to be total odd ball. Where as in Christmas you are supposed to pretend angel and not have any needs so that you can get gifts. Christmas Gifts are just black mail to make you something you are not. I rather not have the gifts and just be myself and that is why my Christmas has Halloween decoration.
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This movie doesn't work in HD the granny looked worked with the dark setting it looked live action. And the elves are creepier then the Halloween creatures and I see how painted on all the textures are
Evolution psychology is Pseudo science
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I like Sally. When I was young, I thought she was obsessed with Jack. But now as an adult, she's really a kind person who is a victim to a possessive scientist. And she tries to help Santa leave that horrible place. Even though jack and his village live in horror because it is Halloween town, I think jack banished oogie boogie because he had a more sinister view.
@@StrongAndfemininee😅srr😮
The fact that Danny Elfman actually admitted that this song was projecting his own identity crisis while he was processing his lack of enthusiasm for his band at the time, breaks my heart. He was so relatable to me as a child but even more so as an adult
Precisely
I had no clue! What a wonderful way to heal and breath life into your passion/ craft again! What a huge coincidence too.
Danny Elfman's musical genius is such a treasure
@@Xeavone he even went so far as to say that h felt so connected with this song that he asked to be jacks singing voice at least. at the time it wasn't confirmed that he would actually be doing the voice and not just composing the songs. And you can really feel the passion and the longing in his voice in the movie. He really put his whole heart into it
@@AliceTheChaosWitch And what a beautiful voice it is. Like melted butter and so soulful. Love baritones.
every year on halloween at 11:46 pm, my brother and i play The Nightmare Before Christmas, so that when it turns to November, “What’s This?” starts playing, kicking off the Christmas season ♡
Best comment 😂
Dude that's GENIUS
@@Queen_Sakura my brother thought of it, he takes holidays VERY seriously, especially Christmas lol
@@KlownKumiho
As he should holidays are important
@@Queen_Sakura agreed, but he turns into an absolute nut case sometimes lmao
7:43 Basically this song: "Well, I ruined Christmas, but at least I had fun doing it. Anyway, back to Halloween." I'll give Jack this, he knows how to bounce back from his failures.
Haha 100%😂❤
True 😂 There IS a very important lyric there: "I hope there's still time to set things right." Which he then goes to do. Part of bouncing back from failure is doing what you can to clean up your own mess in the first place.
And write he’s wrong s 😅
@@ravens-crypt Right his wrongs
Would've been one of the funniest movie endings ever if he just skedaddled happily back to Halloween without cleaning up the mess he made though.
Santa, touching the side of his nose, is a nod to the poem The Night Before Christmas, where, at the end, Moore writes:
"And laying his finger aside of his nose
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose."
Thank you!
OHHHH I was wondering what it meant!!!
I never understood Sally as a young girl.
She was too soft for me, and as a rowdy one I couldn’t relate. Wasn’t until I got older that I understood her. She is always right, and no one listens. That makes you quiet, and broken down-but, that doesn’t make her less a rebel. She runs away, jumps out windows, is clever and won’t be silenced. She just wants to find someone who listens. Her life is one of darkest of all Halloween Town, so she understands the beauty of Christmas. Her softness is her strength.
Nightmare Before Christmas is my favorite movie of all time, one I’ve watched over and over since I was a kid to the point of memorization. It has become my sons favorite movie. It has been a different experience to watch it after growing older. I’m so excited you did this.
@bambicrandi, have you read her book/origin/epilogue story? It’s called “Long Live the Pumpkin Queen.” It makes the reader appreciate Sally even more for both her kindness and her quiet courage, especially when she recognizes those as her strengths, too. It’s very well written and expands the holiday worlds apart from Christmas town and Halloween town.
I don't know when you grew up, but in the 90s and 2000s (and before that too) all those virtues were seen as "lesser than". It was a cultural issue. It's nice that nowadays we can give softness and kindness the importance they deserve.
That's a beautiful take on Sally, I adore it so much!
This is a beautiful description 🥹❤️
I am reminded of the Greek myth of Cassandra. A Trojan priestess who was given the gift of prophecy by Apollo, but also cursed by having no one take her seriously.
Oh, my wife and I always felt like Jack was an artist without a challenge, and he saw Christmas as a challenge but never expected to fail... In the end he just expanded his horizons and understood how to challenge himself
Ooh I really like that!
As an artist myself, that's how I always saw it too! Lol!
I think the reason Jack and Sally don’t interact a whooole lot during the movie is because they want you to assume they’ve been friends since before it, which is why Sally could tell something was going on with Jack. His behavior in the movie isn’t normal for him, but yeah if you don’t assume that their romance is honestly really funny lmao
A few months ago they released a comic recently that confirmed they knew each other as kids, along with some history on Jack and Oogie also. Knowing that aspect of their dynamic honestly makes them really sweet to me.
And a novel for Sally that confirms she's from a completely different land but was kidnapped by the doc in a wheelchair
Agreed
Theres also a lot of indication that Sally has been sneaking around the town and hanging out with everyone for a long time.
The Halloween song at the beginning of the movie has a line specifically for sally and the wind ("I am the wind blowing through your hair"- Sally is the only one with long hair) and we know that they start preparations a year in advance at least. The mayor had plans premade the day after they finished.
I kind of feel that if this movie had a show, we would be following Sally as she sneaks around and makes friends with the hanging tree/others and keeps her shenanigens secret from her father. The movie followed jack, but Sally was the one having the character growth before this.
@@RazorO2Productions
I thought he made her.
This helps a lot actually bc when I first saw it, the ending romance came completely out of nowhere in my view. I didn't feel like it was earned and so it didn't resonate with me at all :(
jack singing to the towns people about christmas reminds me when you try and explain something u love and are excited about to the people u care about and they dont or cant understand and how disappointing that can be when you want to share the joy u feel with them
I feel this completely. After a couple times of this, I learn to keep it inside. Then, I can pretend I'm not so alone.
This is very common feeling with me. I just stopped talking to my family about my interests entirely because they either don’t get it or don’t react in the best way.
@ i always get so excited to share something i’m excited about and no body even attempts to look interested or care 😭
I know we gave my dad crap as kids about his niche interests: "bla bla blah rivets bla bla blah yaw bla bla blah aileron rolls... Lemme show you the model..." but we picked up more than we might have expected just from his sheer joy and expanded our knowledge, like the Halloween Town citizens at the end of the movie. Can't give you the entire Smithmasonian or Dayton Air Museum tour over the phone like he can, but I've found ways to relate it to my own interests and encourage him with in the vein of "I know just enough about your hobby to know it makes you happy."
Not everyone is going to get your interest or even give it much of a chance, but sometimes that blank stare is just the inner hamster wheel spinning in the background, connecting "huh. Weird thing = stuff my friend/family member likes. May bring it up next time I see them or call them if I encounter it elsewhere."
@ even just listening and pretending to be excited is enough. 🩷
I love how Sally is the only one who is genuinely excited by the discovery of Christmas before Jack's Halloween framing. It shows a rare chemistry that illustates their romantic connection later on.
Yes ❤
Ooohhhh I never notified this…everyone else is little confused and frames it with Halloween before even Jack does, but she loves it from the start!
There's also the fact that it seems that, in all his years as the Pumpkin King, Jack has never faced any opposition from the residents of Halloween Town. They just go along with everything he does and give him the utmost praise no matter what he does. His first entirely new experience in years is when he visits Christmas Town, and his first real challenge in years is trying to explain to the townsfolk that not everything is about scaring and fear. Jack slides back and ends up making this hybrid holiday kind of out of frustration at the town being seemingly unable or unwilling to actually listen and learn about these new concepts, and being unable to explain them in ways that they'll understand properly.
Now that I think about it, imagine if Jack had taken everyone on a field trip to Christmas Town. I get the feeling it would be like a single teacher trying to keep a class full of overexcited toddlers under control.
@@dionettaeon That would blow up spectacularly if he didn't prearrange it. The Christmas villagers would think it was _Night of the Living Dead._
I remember a joke someone made saying Jack did cultural appropriation so horribly that they sicked anti-aircraft on him
"BRO IT'S A COMPLIMENT BRO I JUST LOVE YOUR CULTURES SO MUCH BRO"
I see Jack and the residents of Halloween Town being rather... innocent. They jump so easily into Christmas with such enthusiasm. Jack wants something new, but when he finds it his first instinct is to share it. Everyone gets so excited by the thrill of this completely new and, to them, alien thing, and like anyone is capable of but especially the innocent-minded, they go overboard really quickly. While the theme of this movie is to to appreciate what you have, the sort of secondary thing is also to find compromise which actually comes from Santa at the end of the film. He fixes Jack's mistakes but then reaches back out to Halloween Town, bringing them snow and wishing them a happy Halloween in a show of forgiveness and sort of building a bridge of friendship in a sense. The reality is that this movie has a lot of little messages and themes mixed throughout it, and in paying attention you may find more with each subsequent watch.
An educator I knew once told me she uses the premise of the film to teach the differences between cultural appropriation and cultural exchange, since they're often conflated and confused for one another. She doesn't think it was an intended read of the film, more of a happy accident. But there's a really stark distinction between how Jack steals and twists Christmas in his own culture's image and how Santa willingly shares Christmas with Halloween Town by gifting them a nice little snowstorm.
Yes!!! I love Jack and I've bought so much merch (tbh this movie was my obsession for the entire 2022). That said I always joke that Jack is a colonizer bc the way he sees a different tradition and takes it and perverts it, for lack of a better word. Also when Santa is leaving and he calls the town "backwards" I'm like "that's xenophobic, man". I absolutely love this movie and Jack, though
@@melodi2036 Jack's not a colonizer because he didn't impose Halloween culture on the Christmas town. It's just more straightforward cultural appropriation (taking the tradition and perverting it).
@@LittleHobbit13 appropriation is colonizer behavior 🤷🏾♀️
That's an interesting distinction. This helps me understand why Holidaze by Vivziepop has so many Nightmare Before Christmas vibes with none of the conflict. The two main characters engage in cultural exchange instead of cultural appropriation.
@@LittleHobbit13But he did have their "Chief" kidnapped. Colonizing is as much the theft of culture as it is the enforcement of your own.
I have always thought that we only start to see the real Jack after he returns to Halloween after being blown out of the sky. When we meet him, he’s in crisis and doesn’t know who he is. When he goes back to Halloween to save Santa and Sally, we see him protect others (“how dare you treat my friends so shamefully!”), apologize and take accountability for his mistakes, magnanimously forgive Lock, Shock, and Barrel (it’s implied, anyway, when they hit him with the snowball), and finally see that he was taking Sally for granted. To me, the Jack we see in the third act explains why the folks in Halloween respected him so much in the first place. That was always who he was, he just got wrapped up in being the Pumpkin King and lost sight of himself.
My read on this movie was always if you make your entire life about your job, you're going to feel empty. You have to have more than that, like companionship and family, or the job will lose all meaning.
Absolutely, Jack has had nothing but his job. He couldn't even see Sally because of this focus.
Yes, I feel the same. The residents of Halloween Town have passion and enthusiasm for their holiday, of course they do, but they put all the pressure onto Jack to lead them, to make it The Best Halloween Ever, every single year. He rose to the top because he was the best, and now they expect him to keep going over and over. None of them are friends to Jack, none of them challenge or oppose him. To be surrounded by so many and have no one actually seeing or hearing him must have accelerated all his other feelings about his role as The Pumpkin King.
Whenever I think of this movie, I think of Jack resting in the arms of the angel statue. It's like he was saved because he wasn't a bad person, but just confused. He was given another chance to fix things, and he jumped right in and did the right thing.
There’s one frame when his face is directly in front of the angel’s head and it’s perfect. There’s so many beautiful details in this film.
@@nerissarowan8119 I've often noticed that moment. He becomes the angel for a moment...a fallen (quite literally) angel reclaiming/finding his redemption
I watch this movie at both Halloween and Christmas. It's rare that you can find a movie that perfectly represents TWO holidays, but this is it! As for Jack is definitely an antivillain. I've always thought if him as a reverse Grinch, so obsessed with Christmas but his inability to understand it drives him crazy.
That's awesome!
I also watch it on Easter and Thanksgiving cause it's also mentioned 😂
Same here!
I would definitely agree. Because Jack is the hero of his own story, trying something new after centuries which gives him a sense of purpose.
But the way he does it makes him evil in a sense that he doesn't grasp what he is doing is wrong.
So yeah, he is an antivillain.
@@CinemaTherapyShow Speaking of the Grinch, would you do both Chuck Jones/Seuss and Illumination versions of Grinch’s story? I feel that Illumination’s version of the Tale is as important as the original version of the story, because the Grinch doesn’t hate Christmas, but rather the Clusterfest surrounding the holiday. I wouldn’t recommend putting the Live-Action version in the same category, because it de-valued the moral that the original story had; which is that the Whos love the holiday, whether or not they needed material things; which the movie went against just to prove the Grinch’s point, which is what I hate.
I truly feel "Poor Jack" showcases why Jack Skellington is the best at what he is. We already know he is great, he is the Pumpkin King after all. He enthuses all of Halloween town for Christmas, he gets everyone in on it, he delegates tasks to those best suited for it and puts Christmas together in less than 2 months. But what makes him the best is when he reflects, finds what he needs to do, and then commits to it with the same infectious enthusiasm he always had.
Yes! He's such an awesome leader to the people of Halloween town! He delegates appropriately, he gives constructive criticism kindly, he is genuine and caring towards his people. Also, Oogie Boogie is genuinely scared of him, implying that he's a bad ass when it comes to protecting people
You made me realise I love Jack too
"Get stuffed, Thanksgiving" feels more apt. :)
This comment deserves more love.
@@EmpressoftheLoneIslands Thankyou. ^_^
One takeaway i've had on rewatch is also how important delegation is to prevent burnout. From how the Mayor acts, it seems like everyone really depended on Jack to basically do everything and lead everyone and make the important decisions. But then when Jack got everyone working together on Christmas, letting them contribute and add their own spin on things even though the meeting showed they didnt share his vision, it probably did give him something of a break and showed everyone the value of working together on things. And then of course also having Sally around, who cared about him as an individual and didnt put him on a high pedestal like the others did. So that is less pressure overall and gives him a chance to actually enjoy things and live in the moment more when it comes to his job.
"I'm ONLY an elected official! I can't make decisions by myself!"
- Mayor of Halloweentown everybody.
Probably the most accurate character to exist in real life 😂
But yeah, the delegation point is valid. Jack came up with the plans, he was the main man. The boss guy that everyone looked up to and went to for help and advice on stuff.
The poor bony dude was burned out, he needed a vacation, a reset. Christmas was his reset, letting him get hyped up again and excited about life
"Don’t be a harsh judge of the people who don’t get it. Just find the people who do." That realization helped me leave a spiritually abusive environment a year ago and strike out into better communities. Well put!
Sally is my favorite character in all of cinema. She perfectly encapsulates the Cassandra character trope. The seer who is ignored. And that's a trope I've heavily identified with. That, along with her diverse knowledge of potions, foraging, sewing and pattern drafting, and general MacGyvering....
As someone with major depressive disorder(+ psychotic features), I find Jack very VERY relatable. Self loathing to the point of searching for a new identity entirely, thinking you yourself are the problem so you change everything about you. I always loved Jack, he’s my biggest comfort.
Absolutely.
gods yes. i feel this so deeply.
I aspire to this
Probably shouldn't
But skelly man
Yes! Yes! Yes! When I watched this movie for the first time, as soon as Jack sang his lament song i immediately thought, “oh, Jack has depression”.
I would’ve loved to hear them talk about the movie from that perspective, but oh well.
@@back2thefuturefan88 “oh well” basically sums up how I felt watching this video. There’s so much in this movie, and I didn’t feel they did it justice. I guess they have to have something for the Patreon though.
23:53 What's cool about that is Santa like the Halloweentown residents only understands his own holiday, Sally is a ragdoll which is a toy, so i get why she'd be the only thing Santa would be able to figure out.
That's a good point. I always dislike how Santa is so mean to Jack. I understand being upset but he's just a bit cruel when all Jack wanted, intended was to give Santa a break and try Christmas out. Jack certainly should have talked to Santa first, but only saw Santa as a projection of his own tired self. Jack looked at Santa and saw someone just like him who might welcome a break for a bit. Jack just....doesn't communicate this and it causes problems.
@@Stargazer_Ley Jack told Lock, Shock, and Barrel not to involve Oogie in any of this, but Santa didn't know that and they did take him to Oogies anyway, hopefully Santa giving HalloweenTown snow means: 'alright we're good now.'
@Stargazer_Ley "A bit cruel?" Jack came _this close_ to annihilating Christmas Town. Think about it--nobody would ever trust Santa again.
I always used to feel so sorry for the poor Easter Bunny who got kidnapped. The guy saying "Bunny!" lives in my head rent free.
Oh my gosh that guy is the reason why whenever I see a bunny, I shout it like he does XD
Im always proud of Jack in this scene where he tells the kids "Take him home FIRST"
Been stimming BUNNY for about a week now...
Ahahahahaha. Yeah the poor Bunny😂
@@paulastacy12”WHICH DOOOOOOR?! There’s more than one!!!!”
One more philosophical interpretation I got from this movie after rewatching it is that everything has its place. Halloween is good for Halloween time, but it’s a problem if it takes over Christmas (and vice versa). The kids that were terrified of the “Halloween” style Christmas presents would undoubtedly be disappointed if they had a Halloween with no monsters and ghosts. That being said, they can complement and improve each other.
@@nicholasprice7260 There ought to have been a sequel with Santa trying Halloween just to see what that would look like.
Honestly, I would like to see how Santa succeeds or fails at interpreting Halloween through a Christmas lens.
RIP to the great Ken Page! It’s been almost a month and I still can’t believe he’s gone.
Yes. I wish they showed some of the oogie boogie clips
WHAT?! I didn’t know he passed😞
Yeah he did a few weeks ago 🙁
Oh no! The Oogie Boogie song is the one song from this movie that gets play time on my Spotify. They're all great but for me, it's a cut above the rest.
I'm a St. Louis theatre kid, and Ken Page was an *institution* here - the booming preshow-announcer voice of the Muny, our huge outdoor theatre, and frequently appearing in its productions. It was a privilege to see his final few appearances on the Muny stage, and next summer there will sound downright weird without his signature "Good evening" welcoming everyone to the show.
23:19 - "Take charge, and write the screenplay of your own life" is weirdly inspiring!
Personally, the movie always spoke to me in an artistic angle - with Jack feeling like he's stuck in a rut, just like you said, he seems to have lost his passion. You likened it to a midlife crisis (which is a fascinating way to look at it too), but to me it always reminded me of how an artist or writer can suddenly find themselves in an artblock/writer's block. But discovering a new different hobby all together and just replacing the previous art form with that isn't a permanent solution. At first it may seem new and exciting, but it's not the same. It's all about finding that one spark again, the inspiration you need to pick up your brush or pen again. To relearn what about your passion was what made you love it in the first place.
That’s how I see it too, having been going through the same thing lately!
@@DoofenSpyroDragon16 I feel that. I genuinely hope you will feel better soon and rediscover your very own creative spark.
I relate to this waaay too much. I've been stuck in a creative rut for years now. I'm not really sure how to regain the passion I once had for art and writing. It used to be a huge part of my identity ever since I was a small child, especially art. Now that I've lost my creative drive, I feel like I'm nobody. I don't know who I am anymore, like I've lost a huge part of my identity. I can see why Jack would try something completely new and different to see if that sparks his creativity again.
i was born in november. Nightmare before christmas has always been the one movie that falls perfectly on my birthday because of it being halloween and christmas. Growing up with sally and jack made me find what i wanted my love life to be in the future and it makes me so happy.
I was born on December 24th: the perfect time to be short-changed on both birthday and Christmas. I get it now; holiday giving is expensive, and getting gifts isn't as important to me. However, as a kid and young adult, I HATED it.
I do tend to refer to the day before Christmas as Melindamass however.
As someone who watched all of these stop-motion movies as a kid, Coraline was the only one that actually scared me and I am obsessed with all of them. This movie is a cinimatic masterpiece, and is beautiful, and is amazingly written, I could go on forever.
I can’t be the only one who wants so badly to go behind every holiday door…I was always so curious what the heck the 4th of July and Thanksgiving doors would reveal!
The two-faced mayor has to be my favorite character. Jaaack! 😀 gasp 😨 It just never gets old!!
There's a game called Lost in Random that has an art style which Nightmare Before Christmas fans may enjoy and has a whole town of double people. Some have two moods, some have a second face and personality on the other side, some have two bodies, etc.
Can recommend looking into it. As well as The Midnight Walk.
@jurtheorc8117 Nice!
I look forward to that part every time
Movies that I have watched for the first time because Cinema Therapy talked about them: Wonka, Encanto, Clueless, Soul, Howl's Moving Castle, Luca, Onward, Turning Red, Cruella, 10 Things I Hate About You, & Good Will Hunting... probably more. Love this channel! Thanks for all the work you guys put into these!
That's so awesome! We love to hear that. 😊
Jack telling Sally how to make his Sandy Claws outfit is every time my nephew describes how I’m going to make him a costume 😂
That’s cute
I've tried moving all over the country trying to give my life meaning. It turns out I actually have a big problem with vulnerability because of chronic loneliness and neglect since childhood.
Jack's lament is something I relate too much with. I lost my identity trying to get my basic human needs met, without being vulnerable. It's cost me almost 2 decades. I'm still learning to be myself and discover who I really am with the help from a psychologist and my youtube therapy videos.
Happy Halloween CT family
I love how the people of Halloween town don't understand what jack is going through, but support him and try to be there with him. I also love how jack (if you're using the midlife crisis metaphor) is not leaving the people he knows behind, he's including them in this new venture.
Something overlooked is how deep of a character Sally is. My own mother went through an incrsdibly similar life experience. How Sally's father was so demanding of her and how unsympathetic to her he was. How Sally felt the need to sneak out to have friends and help those in need and to go against the crowd to do what was right. Ans shes shaken with insecurity, wondering if shes worthy of being loved when no one around her expresses it. Only in her abikity to persevere that her friendship toward Jack leads to mutual friendship to blossom to something more.
I loved the beginning the most, not just because of the singing but because everyone sees Jack as the guy who has it all “the pumpkin king” but it’s a lesson in having everything isn’t what makes people happy.
17:54 The skeletal system does have nerve endings. They're called intrabony nerves.
I read an article stating that Jack is the "Reverse Grinch", in that he adores Christmas, but it ends up driving him insane. He could definitely be construed as having ADHD, from a therapist standpoint.
as a fellow Cassandra I appreciate this movie as one of the only reads that gives her a chance at a happy ending.
When Sally gets the vision of how Jack's Christmas is going to turn out she's asking for a vision of how their relationship might go. She's looking for love, and seeing the obstacles she knows could come between them and wise enough to know that there might be unseen obstacles she's asking for help in getting clarity on what those might be.
Her vision is right, not just in what the consequences are for Jack's choices but in how best to bring them together. He sees that she gets him when she sends up the bottle of wine with a smoke butterfly in it, it's why he trusts her with the most iconic part. He's in the middle of dealing with everyone else's doubts so he's not in the correct space to hear her when she expresses her concerns. The whole town has gathered to help him do something none of them fully get and he's having to make do with 1/10th results from misunderstood efforts. (Hence opening my remarks by comparing Sally and myself to Cassandra.) There's no room in his awareness right now to hear what someone who gets him is saying. I agree that it's obsession or hyper-focus that drives him through, I think that ties back to the read on midlife crisis. How often when we are in those crisis moments do we feel internal pressure to sprint as fast as we can at the perceived answer lest it vaporize before we can grasp it. With out a fear of mortality to work with they gave him a chronological deadline. If you want to steal Christmas this year, you have this many days. Normally you spend all year working on your holiday (we know because the mayor shows up bright and early Nov 1st to start planning and his attitude is "ok the crunch is on, let's get cracking") and now you've decided to do an all new one in 1/8th your normal time frame. So he's rushing himself and everyone connected to him towards this cliff with the intention of "we're all going to jump and fly and it will be AWESOME!"
Everything Sally does to try and help, makes his Christmas better for him than it would have been, so that he learns his lesson faster. Everything she says shows her love and care, so that when he realizes his mistake he can hear her doubts about how it was going to go in a different light. When he asks her why she put herself in harms way to help fix his problems, he finally sees her motivation. So her vision at the start was not NOT an answer to the question she was asking. Just not an answer she would have seen for herself. (Ya know. like how most visions work)
I love this movie because figuring out the riddle of Sally's vision (over about 20yrs of personal growth) helped me to see that it's no bad thing to have faith in myself. It's no bad thing to trust in my intuition even if it feels like it's pointing me in a counterintuitive direction. "Tell the person you love that they are wrong about their grand plan" doesnt feel loving, doesnt feel supportive, doesnt feel like it should bring you closer together. When I got those feelings, I rejected them. I didnt give warnings I should have. I didnt say "you dont look like yourself" when I saw people going against their nature. And it created MORE distance between us that I didnt. They accused me of with holding and of sabotaging them by not speaking out when I knew it was wrong.
True Love isnt being your partner's Yes Man, it's being the person who can say, after making the perfect SandyClaws outfit, "you dont look like yourself" it's seeing who is standing there, and the hurt they are having, and helping them deal with it, while also helping them with their plan to deal with it and voicing any misgivings had about said plan.
I've been semi-seriously saying I was going to legally change my name to Cassandra for nearly 40 years. From one deeply dismissed "oracle" to another, greetings. Frustrating, innit? 😬
@@sharpeslass5452 always!
Lol, Thanksgiving was my dad's favorite holiday. I heard countless rants in the stores that used to put out Christmas stuff before Thanksgiving was over, about how nothing is sacred anymore, and "Is it too much to ask that we sit down and shut up for one damn day and be thankful for something?"
Poor Jack is a great example of "the greatest teacher failure is". Sometimes you just have to learn things the hard way. And Jack was able to really bounce back from his wrongdoings so well. I'm always impressed when i watch the film. He really does have a great personality.
Agree.
Love this movie, and though Jack is a bit of a narcissist, as someone who deals with AuDHD, I find his search for something “new” very relatable 😅
SAME
One point i see is how it's all about incorporating changes with moderation and humility. Jack was so used to being effortlessly successful at being the Pumpkin King that he thought he could be just as successful as Santa at Christmas. The Dunning-Kreuger effect is there in Jack's life as he gets a little taste of Christmas and decides to be completely in charge of the holiday within a short time.
MY BELOVED JACK 😭😭😭😭 I never knew how badly I needed an episode analyzing him, he's a strangely relatable character to me, thank you!!
Edit: As to how I personally intepret Jack, and why I relate to him:
I was an expat in the US for almost a decade, from 2013 to 2021. As a European kid spending the full second half of her school years in an American environment, I was so amazed and enthralled by everything around me. I grew so much in my creative expression and versatility thanks to the freedom I found in school. I went to class every day craving to be an equal to these other teens that I found so passion-driven and free, I felt so at home there, and the longer I stayed there, the more convinced I was that that was truly my place, that Spain (my country) was so behind me and that I was more American than Spanish. But I wasn't home, really. The feeling of belonging in school, like school itself, is not eternal, for one thing, and eventually my family and I had to return to our country because we were never truly tethered to the US, and when we were in need of help, we had nothing to cling onto there - it was a momentary home that we deeply loved but we were never a part of it. Our departure deeply hurt us, but overtime I've learned to see this in a different and kinder light. Cause... honestly, the reason why my time in America mattered so much to me isn't that I became American, rather that America helped me finish my development as a person while I was growing up, expanding in my ideals, my knowledge, my flexibility, my perpective on things, etc., because I was raised in an American AND European environment. I was never here nor there, but an individual crafted by both places, and for that I am who I am today. And I still have so much more to learn, but I recognize now that I'm an adult that my love for my former home was always linked to personal growth, not belonging.
Jack's love but deep-rooted misunderstanding of this brand new Christmas world is so relatable to me for this reason. It reminds me of my own possibly-failed attempts to enter the new exciting world I was suddenly placed in, discarding my old one behind because I no longer saw value in it. It takes actually returning to your roots and applying the things you've learned to develop an identity unique to you, rather than BECOME something you aren't and limiting yourself to being just one of your experiences. Hence the beauty of Jack's ending with Sally in Halloweentown, in the snow - he is still the Pumpkin King, but his willingness to grow his perspective and explore new things has made him something greater than that, as has it transformed his once-repetitive world into both his past and his future.
(This is LONG, I got ahead of myself, sorry XD)
No worries on the length of the comment it was an interesting perspective honestly.
I didn't get the chance to go abroad even in university (thank the pandemic for that). However I was fortunate to have a variety of interest in various cultures, religions, etc even when I was very young. Thankfully this was nurtured and I even got to visit some places I wanted to go to. While nowhere near the same it can be very enriching for self discovery to look at other, cultures, belief systems, or traditions and see what you like and what you don't.
Honestly one of the reasons I have a deep love for the fantasy genre is getting to in a small way, explore a whole new world.
As an expat myself…born American and lived in Asia for 5 years - your story resonates and I’ll finally watch this movie through because of you sharing! ❤
I posted this in the Discord, but I wanted to share my views on Sally here, too. After all, I strongly relate to Sally.
In the Director's Cut, I love that Jono points out how Sally truly sees Jack as a friend, always. As someone who has been on the unrequited love side of the house, I feel like that is what keeps her from becoming bitter. She genuinely has his interests in heart and wants to support him, but also keeps true to herself and doesn't change who she is in hopes that he'll see her worth. She is who she is, and that's that. Should she talk to him about her feelings? Yes. If she is like me, though, then I can understand her feeling of not being worthwhile. After all, she is the creation of a scientist who is trapped to do his bidding while he is the freaking Pumpkin King and town hero. This shouldn't define her worth, and she does what she can to thrive, but I could understand if this is her motivation.
The following is all used in the episode, so I'll share my views on those scenes and respond to what the guys talk about.
After "Jack's Lament", Sally says, "Jack, I know how you feel." I read this as she also feels trapped in her situation with the scientist and doesn't know what to do either. Her struggle is different, but she still empathizes with him, which is something that is unique to the both of them since everyone else in Halloweentown is content with their lives. When Jack comes back to describe the wonders of Christmastown, she is equally excited about it for two main reasons. One, there is something wonderful about seeing someone you care about being excited about a dream. As someone who is empathetic, it is easy to absorb that excitement and want to help them achieve their goals. Two, it would be something new for her, too. Something that could potentially break her out of her day to day life, thus making this a common goal for both of them.
When she sees the Christmas tree vision, which no one questions so I imagine it's common for her, her desire switches. She instead realizes that Jack's dream will lead to a nightmare. To use the personalities that Jono and Alicia are fond of, Jack strikes me as a Dreamer. Every Dreamer I have had the pleasure of meeting greatly benefits from having someone who helps them stay focused, and not get lost in their many dreams that they have. Sally, the Healer, is doing her best to be this person for him. When she is in the dressing room, telling Jack that he doesn't look like himself, it's not because she's trying to make him stay the same. It's because she's desperate to save him from himself. Unfortunately, he's still too focused on this dream to see what's in front of him in Sally.
In the scene that was ever so rudely cut off in the episode (I know, Alan, it was a mistake. I forgive you, even though you don't need it lol), Jack finally sees Sally for all that she has done for him, without expecting anything in return, while he was busy lamenting and dreaming. The end scene where Jack approaches Sally on the hill is the perfect transition for them to become friends and romantic partners. She's not just "a" friend. She's his "dearest" friend. He wants to join her at "her" side and is asking for permission to do this so that they can be together and build a future for both of them. That's. Freaking. Beautiful. Neither of them compromise who they are. They're just simply meant to be.
That last paragraph was so beautifully written that it gave me chills
@@estherhinds6314 Oh, thank you! I greatly appreciate that ❤.
I always loved how fast unrequited became requited in this movie
@@hannahpatwell5435 Same! I love that we're thrown into the world at some unknown point in their friendship and her unrequited feelings. It allows the viewer to fill in the blanks themselves. Absolutely brilliant.
@SaucyJTD this is only a joke, we should form an unrequiteds club 😂
A little anecdote here. When I was about thirteen I became obsessed with learning the lyrics for "What's This?". I didn't speak much English back then, so I had to learn them (mostly) phonetically. To this day I remember every word.
To me, this movie was always about opening up to new perspectives and experiences without losing yourself in the process. In the end, they do have something new (the snow) and it's implied that Jack and Santa remained friends. But still, they stayed true to themselves.
For me Sally reminds me of girls who are in love with Idols and Singers but in a healthy respectful way. She wants to know lots about him and get close yes, but above all she wishes for his happiness and success. She understands Jack is like a celeb so doesn't remember she exist but Sally supports him whole heartedly.
Recently I've struggled with identity issues, depressive thoughts, not being comfortable with where I am. I relate to Jack in wanting to just, find something different to do. My read on it is that we can absolutely do that IF we don't do it as extreme as Jack did. Finding new perspectives in your own "line of work" (in the movie it's holidays) can be the bucket of cold water you need to remember the excitement and bring fresh ideas to what you love. Kinda like a rock musician going to a jazz gig and then going back with a whole new perspective and combining and making something new.
As a composer who’s kinda stuck in a rut myself (this came at the perfect time) I think this is a good idea. I’ve always found working with new instruments exciting and inspirational after months of the same things. (I play around on Studio One with stuff, mostly Spyro fan music ideas. 😆)
I kinda see this movie as an artist finding inspiration for their work through new experiences
Jack feels burned out of being the Pumpkin King and leaves to find something new, he then finds Christmas and tries to make it apart of his work. By the end he realizes that the new ideas for Halloween were always there & Christmas was the catalyst to bring it out.
Especially the song at the cemetery, Jack expresses that even though things went wrong he still had a lot of fun & it motivated him to not only fix his mistakes but also gave him new ideas for Halloween.
My kids and I love this movie so I came running to this video after getting the notification. Much love Internet Dads!
That's so sweet! Thanks for watching. 😊
To touch upon the comment made at the end of the video about sharing new movies with us as viewers, I had never seen the Rocky movies before the video you all created about Rocky Balboa and his healthy masculinity, and as cliche as it sounds watching those movies genuinely changed my life in a massively positive way. I had never had a real strong role model that I could relate to growing up, especially concerning someone who went from struggle to finally achieving his sense of worth that he'd been looking for, which I have and still actively struggle with myself. Every day I find it hard to get out of bed, I think to myself "Rocky would want me to get up and face the day," and it works. So thank you to all hearts and minds behind Cinema Therapy but especially to Jono for his love of the movies and character alike. I'm right there with you, man.
I always read the message of this movie, in part, about being able to be in and appreciate other people's hobbies and spaces without taking them over or making them about you.
So I always connected with Sally as an empathetic person who sees others dismiss what will likely cause others pain. Feeling hesitant because of low self worth (at the time of watching at first) and the witch/clumsy side of her too.
I also saw it mainly as a romance, and I'm fascinated that so many people found the romance as unsupported. It wa definitely a romance based on friendship, but I personally saw so many indications that they were particularly special to each other. That they were already friends, with Jack being her secret crush too and Sally being someone he finds fascinating because she's not like everyone else.
Jack turning away from his groupies because he doesn't want someone to fawn over him for his fame, he wants someone who understands. Sally with the basket to care for him and gentle concern about his wellbeing. Jack seeing the beautiful luna moth and going Someone FINALLY Gets It and scrambling to hopefully see which gorgeous soul sent the pretty thing, while Sally hides in embarrassment and joy that her secret crush liked the gift.
Jack saying "who else would I trust with something this important?" Her supporting him even though she thinks he's making a mistake. Sally actually saying he's making a mistake and trying to bring him back to reality, something none of his other friends or groupies would think to do - who would tell the Pumpkin King he's wrong? But to Sally, he's the man first, Pumpkin King second. I never liked that he dismissed her concerns, but I also thought that he was thinking she was just nervous.
And then at the end realizing that she was right all along (with Santa directly pointing it out) and was there for him in a way no one else was, and understood him when no one else ever had. Almost losing Sally possibly woke Jack up to how important she was to him, and that she was a What's This kind of wonder and joy that could last. While Jack had always been important to Sally. So when he realized he cared for her, BAM, she was completely onboard. Her dream come true. Him coming to his senses in a way.
Just how I always saw the movie- it was very influential for how I thought love should work, along with Beauty and the Beast (though less yelling for that one).
My read on The Nightmare Before Christmas has always fluctuated. Sometimes I read it as a mid life crisis, sometimes an allegory for struggling relationships, sometimes a lack of passion and interest in the pretty much anything, and sometimes a mirror to part of my life wherein I was just lost and felt pulled in too many different directions at once. That's what's so great about this movie, that it speaks to its audience on a number of levels and can be interpreted in so many ways. Its also why The Nightmare Before Christmas has such a huge fanbase: It's not (only) because its speaks to those who love the gothic aesthetic, as many people tend to believe -even though that is a part of it. It's the nuances of the characters, and how they reflect our own emotions throughout life in so many ways.
I've read it for a long time as Appreciation vs Appropriation. Jack starts by appreciating Christmas but quickly (even at the end of what is this) wanting it "for my own" and even 'oh i can do this better then they can' lets show them how good we can make this' while completely misunderstanding any of the whys.
Very much like the panda express example.
Jack is my favorite anti Grinch. He steals Christmas not to destroy it but to share it. But he's sharing the wrong parts of Christmas because it's not lights or toys or the roast beast. It's about everyone.
For the record... I maintain the reason Christmas stuff keeps showing up earlier and earlier every year, pushing even HALLOWEEN out of stores... is because Santa's still pissed at Jack for messing up his holiday that one time.
Happy Halloween everyone!! Let’s go!
Happy Halloween! 🎃👻
Happy Halloween! 🎃
Happy Halloween!
Fun Fact: Tim Burton got his inspiration to create this movie (even though he wasn't the one who directed it) was seeing the Halloween decorations in a store getting taken down slowly as the staff started putting up Christmas decorations.
I love the music and the animation of the movie, I even saw it in 3D at the theaters. My take back when I was a kid was how unhealthy it is when seeing something that is something that is new can be inspiring, but it can also lead you to an obsession if you are not careful. I had this when it came to fan art, I would print them off of my family's printer and tape them up all over my bedroom walls. I lost count of how many I had, but I think it was around two thousand, four hundred-something-something. I've taken them down but still kept a few up because I love art, and they sometimes help me to remind myself of where my inspiration for designing originated from. But for now, I'm saving them on a drive and to save the forest.
You guys are on a roll covering movies that I LOVE :D
One of my favorite things about this movie is how Jack picks himself up after screwing up Christmas. He acknowledges his mistakes and his own feelings, but instead of moping about it until it's too late to fix it, he looks for the silver lining and for a solution within 1 song. Very impressive.
Continuing with the marriage comparison, Jack tries to find something completely different to Halloween, but finds happiness in his relationship with Sally. In marriage, generally (not in toxic relationships), what can make you happy relays inside of your marriage and not outside it. Outside can make you feel a thrill, but true and sustainable happiness means to reflect on things inside your marriage.
I am not married but my relationship with uni was kinda like this. I was tired of college and academia, but instead of quitting I thought about bringing in things that I enjoyed the most. Maybe you can change one thing at a time, until you feel new passion within your work/marriage/ relationship/ situation.
Oh yeah sorry about the double comment but now that I've finished the episode I would like to mention that I was not a movie person before encountering this channel. You guys didn't get me to try one particular movie, you guys got me to try movies, period. And it's great because now I love movies. Thanks guys
Omg I HAD to comment after the Murder She Rolled ad because I felt proud of myself for recognizing that when Jonathan said "Gottman" and "Brene Brown" that I knew who he was talking about it. Also, I love how 4 of my worlds (mental health, cinema, goth stuff, and D&D) have collided in one video and I couldn't be happier lol. Murder She Rolled has been so fun to listen to. I wanna especially recognize Alan for the emotional depths he took his character to so far throughout the campaign in some unexpected and impressive ways. The whole cast is absolutely wonderful and the darn theme song is addictive, so warning about that lol. It's great, so I highly recommend. Love this interpretation of one of my favoritw movies and will be watching it again soon for sure.
It’s also quite poetic that Jack was voiced by composer Danny Elfman (who also did the score). Elfman was formerly famous at the time for being the frontman and brainchild to new wave band Oingo Boingo. When he started getting bigger in film he was having to divide his attention between the band and films and he’s expressed how he started to feel empty from the band and at around the ‘90s or maybe slightly earlier he left the band. Really REALLY poetic and perfect casting since Elfman could actually put that emotion to the performance.
Danny Elfman didn’t voice Jack, he just did the singing voice. The speaking voice was Chris Sarandon.
My sister and her husband had given me a copy of The Nightmare Before Christmas on Blu-Ray, last Christmas, and it looks amazing in high definition! They also gave me a copy of a book that explains the making of the movie. I'm learning so much about the movie, from reading it.
As for the movie itself, it sounds like Jack is someone who's trying to explain to a group of dysfunctional people what it means to be happy, but they just go and twist it around. That's what it feels like to share experiences of a happy childhood with someone who came from a more traumatic one. For instance, when I was still with my ex, I was telling him about how my sister and I grew up reading books, and he just assumed that Mom had forced us into it, but I explained to him that wasn't the case; it was because Mom wanted to share a love of reading with us. In fact, everyone in my family loves to read, but people who weren't encouraged to read like him didn't see it that way, since he came from a dysfunctional family. So, those who don't know joy don't know how it feels. Jack wants to bring the warmth of Christmas to Halloween Town, but all they know is pain and misery, so by the end of the movie, the snow fall that Santa brings to them brings them hope.
As weird as this is going to sound... I actually subscribe to the perspective that this is a Thanksgiving movie. We start with Halloween, yes, but notice how the movie ends: between Halloween and Christmas, with Jack having a fresher and more thankful outlook on his life. There are still remnants of the spooky season, the citizens are beginning to accept the arrival of snow, and Jack is starting to pay more attention to the one who has tried and failed to get his full attention, who loved him as he already was: Sally. (Seriously, their duet at the end is so beautiful; it's a wonderful way to end the film, even though they still have a long way to go in their relationship.) as an artist, I relate with Jack's desire to improve what he's good at by integrating his obsessions with his usual style. You can't be the artist you're inspired by. You can, however, take what you love about their work, and put your own unique spin on it.
I love that and agreed.
Now that you pointed this observation out, this movie could very well qualify as a New Years Day movie too, since the movie actually ends on Christmas....and in a few days it will become the New Year due to January 1st
So Jack declaring "Oh I just can't wait until next Halloween, cuz I got some new ideas that'll really make them scream!" By that time Christmas is over in this movie, New Years Day will come.....signaling that it will already be the next Halloween Jack has set in motion by then!
A fulfilling end, and a beautiful beginning for our good ol’ Jack ❤️
Will you please react to Gravity Falls? I’d say there’s plenty of themes for a therapist to explore in that show:
1. Sibling Communication (Stan and Ford vs Dipper and Mabel)
2. Manipulation (Bill Cipher)
3. Growing up (The entire show)
4. Isolation and projection (Ford and Dipper)
5. Family Trauma (Grunkle Stan)
6. Separation Anxiety (Dipper and Mabel)
7. Peer Pressure (Mabel and Gideon vs Dipper and the Manotaurs)
8. True Arrogance vs Masking Self-Hatred (Ford vs Stan)
9. Denial (Old Man McGucket)
15:05 this part to me shows how while you are struggling/striving for a new identity you blind yourself to something or someone who sees you and your struggles as well as seeing there true creative self or skills that only needs another’s perspective on ideas to get them out of their funk
The side of his nose thing Santa does is a reference to older stories about him. I think it’s mentioned in The Night Before Christmas. Basically he would the thing and just go flying up the chimney. Halloween is my favorite holiday and I like the horror movies well enough but my favorite Halloween movies are the cheerful ones that get me in the spirit. That’s why I love the Tim Burton movies and Scary Godmother. Sometimes Halloweentown as well though it’s not as cheerful. I love getting to dress up, get free stuff (especially food), and go out at night. You get to pretend to be someone you’re not and try new things. It’s just so much fun and I love getting to see other people enjoy it too
I am 23 and watched this movie for the first time when i was roughly 2 or 3 years old. My grandma showed me it and my mom thought it was too scary Lol. Cut to 20 years later and this is still my favorite movie ever. This is one of the few movies that i can quote from behinning to end ❤ And RIP to the legendary Ken Page❤❤
I thought the themes were on the lines of "careful for what you wish for"," grass is greener" or "you can't have everything"
I've always read Nightmare before Christmas as a story about cultural appropriation vs appreciation. Jack was tired of his original culture and wanted to do a new one while the intention are good the actual new version was mockery/traumatizing. Find contentment in what you have because looking for something new all the time can be dangerous
Also Happy 31st Anniversary to A Nightmare Before Christmas 🥳
I am older than this movie…..what the heck now I feel old😂
I'm the same age as this film!?
I see that movie mostly through the lenses of Sally now that I really think of it. She's seeing her friend fall into a sort of manic episode. She's not against Jack finding new hobbies as we can see with the gift scene she gets excited too but she also see Jack's not himself. She tells him. He ignore it. And oh gosh I feel Sally on that one, the inability to reach him is one of the things that breaks my heart in this movie.
Could feel like that feeling when you see a friend fall into depression, deny it and no matter what you do they just fall. But they need the fall in some kind of way ?
Jack's become sad when he see that everything comes to shit and it's not what he wants.
I'm french so I struggle a bit explaining my point of view😂
But yeah it would go denial, manic episode , acceptance of depression but also himself ?
I have many many feeling about this movie
I watch every year and every year I see something different
I think you did a great job, and the way you think about it certainly makes sense to me!
I watched this movies for YEARS because my best friend loved it! Now I can’t stand looking at it because it reminds me of her. She is no longer with us this movie just brings me sadness and a reminder of her. But I love this channel so much I had to watch this. I needed this this year thank you
The Nightmare Before Christmas is both the BEST Halloween and Christmas movie. 🎃 🎄
A timeless classic that will forever live on throughout my childhood! Tim Burton Is such a genius and visual artist.
And Henry Selick is able to bring his gothic imagination into fruition.
I feel that this is more a Halloween movie because not only are all the main characters from Halloween Town but the majority of the movie takes place there
Idk if this matters in relation to your comment, but Tim produced and wrote it, but Henry Selick (his mentee) directed this. Then went on to do Coraline
@@melodi2036 true, but the story and the character of Jack Skellington started as a poem that Tim wrote while he was still an animator at Disney, long before the movie was ever made.
Hiya, guys! PLEASE add these films to your list! -
About a Boy, Spanglish, In Her Shoes, Last Samurai, Joe vs. the Volcano, Shall We Dance, and P.S. I Love You... So many great themes of trauma, relationships, family, and healing.
YES!! I was waiting for this one, because I relate to Jack so much. Number one, I believe he might be in some way neurodivergent. But number two, I have gone through the same depression as him. I have been involved in this theater troupe where I found my feet in freshman year. But one day it shut down. No biggie, I started getting involved with my school’s theater. But as nice as the teacher was, it wasn’t the same. My first troupe was a Christian youth troupe with laid back, sweet, talented and humble people. But this new environment was more toxic and competitive, and… I began to fear that I was losing my love for theater. And I began to question if I needed to find a new outlet. But after giving it one more shot with another troupe, I found my footing again! Because like the first time, it was a group of sweet and supportive people. So… Jack’s Lament was my anthem in that period of time. But like Jack, it took mistakes and exploring to realize where I had lost my love for what I do and how to regain it.
Also I love Jack and Sally’s relationship! It’s perfectly established if you’re paying attention! Nuff said. 😆
The conversation y’all had at 3:14 about routine made me think of the movie Perfect Days which I hope you’ll cover. It was also a film that I found myself to be inspired by just like this one
I watched this movie earlier this week and thought after, "I would love to see Cinema Therapy do an episode on this." So pleasantly surprised to see this pop up!
Watching this again, I think Jack got burnt out from Halloween year after year which lead him to Christmas. And after it went south, instead of blaming everyone else completely, he acknowledged that he caused a problem and went to fix it.
What I love about this movie was the impact it had. All of a sudden spooky people had an in to secular Christmas and made it so much more inclusive. Since I was little, Christmas has been presented to me as the holiday when the outcasts (Rudolph, the Grinch, Charlie Brown) are validated, important, and included. Christmas is for everyone!
As someone going through a bit of a quarter life crisis themselves, I absolutely relate to this. Also, hope you have a wonderful Halloween week!🎃🎃🎃
We wish you well. Happy Halloween week to you too! 🎃
Happy Halloween!
It speaks to me in a lot of ways but currently it’s about remembering the things that made me happy on their own and opening myself up to those things again.
I’ve seen three of the sets for TNBC (a local museum has them in their collection and they display them once in a blue moon) and for how grand rich the movie feels, the sets outside of the film are only like 18-24 inches tall, iirc. They look like very goth dollhouses. It’s amazing how much detail they get into that space too
That sounds so awesome! It's good to know some of the sets at least are still around; it's heartbreaking how many things like that get trashed without folks being able to appreciate all the love and hard work that get put into them. Thanks for sharing this with us!
I've related to Jack so many times and in so many ways throughout my life. In my late 20's I lost passion for my career, and went through my own "failed Christmas", only to end up very happy for many more years working in... Gothmas. I also relate to the level of self loathing that leads to want to leave our old "flawed" self behind and transform into something joyful and bright (I didn't know I was autistic until my 40's when I got diagnosed). Jack's Lament makes my eyes water every single time.
This is one of the movies that sentimental to me because one of my best friends died in a car accident five years ago and this was her favorite movie so thank you guys for looking over this masterpiece
I totally relate to the way Jonathan approached it. I ended a relationship not so long ago. I had this constant grass is greener feelings with other people, we tried doing new things and improving things, but it only seemed to take us farther apart. And like Jack, we tried pulling it off, but eventually it didn't work out.
It's been quite a while since I watched The Nightmare Before Christmas but I am glad to be seeing it again with the new perspective. Before gaining new perspective from this video, this movie to me is just about Sally is being right. She was right all along that Jack didn't being himself and that he has no need to change himself at all, especially how successful he is at the moment. But now that I gained the new perspective, I have come to understand Jack more. He felt empty and cannot deal with it. So as a result, he ventured to find the new shiny thing. But when that new shiny thing screwed him up one way or another somehow, he returned to where he belonged but with new ideas and possibly, new beliefs.
I haven't watched the movie in forever but my read is realizing you enjoyed a hobby so dearly that you practiced and made it your entire life. like an athlete who does nothing but their sport or an artist stuck in a single medium. They try something new and realize that being too excited and eager can make people think youre already trying to burn bridges when its not evil or wrong to have both
1:20 around Halloween time, I actually watch it up until the end of Oogie Boogie’s Song, that’s the last “Halloween” part of the movie to me. Then I wait until Christmas time and then I’ll watch it all the way through.
Nightmare before Christmas is one of those films that had to grow on me. I think this is one of those situations where, as I grew older, I came to understand, and appreciate it more. Like it started to resonate with me on a different level. Plus it doubles as a Halloween and Christmas movie lol.
It’s a movie that transcends the season
A true comfort movie for me- I have watched it so much I know every little detailed movement. This movie helped me to see, that even though my life is dark and sad, I can still have fun and explore what's going on outside of the darkness in my life.
"Iconic... but so weird."
I watch this movie on Christmas, because Halloween warms my hearth way more than Christmas.
Was fun to see your perspective on the best movie to watch on Christmas.
Halloween just is permission to be total odd ball. Where as in Christmas you are supposed to pretend angel and not have any needs so that you can get gifts. Christmas Gifts are just black mail to make you something you are not. I rather not have the gifts and just be myself and that is why my Christmas has Halloween decoration.
Gotta do Jingle All the Way next!