Fantastic job especially the meter in series with ground of the battery to a ground then only remove the accessory ground don’t know how I never thought of that just genius CHEERS
Darren this is really a tremendous course. I sent you a message on my own battery drain experience. I’m a hands on learner and by physically doing the tests it never registered in my brain that a simple 12V lamp staying on already exceeds the mA of say 20 to 50mA limits on most cars. The picture I sent shows one bulb drawing .065A. Thanks for sharing. Artie 👍
Hey Artie, glad you are still enjoying the content, you are a very valued member! I appreciate your contributions 😁 Yes I saw your post, about to get to them. I agree, the .065 could be a problem depending on battery size and condition 👍
My approach is slightly different. What follows is my basic procedure: 1) Measure battery terminal voltage. What you are looking for is if the battery voltage is very low like 10 VDC, which could indicate a damaged cell. If so it is prudent to first get a new battery on order and take the old one out and see if it will accept a full charge which will probably take 8 hours. If it fails to charge, the battery is damaged, if it does charge you can test capacity with a battery internal impedance meter at the battery terminals. If the battery is older than about 2 years, for a parasitic draw problem vehicle, the battery will must likely not be recoverable. However, there is a very small chance it will recover. While you are waiting for the new battery, you can put in a similar of smaller size battery, could to have a flooded and an AGM on hand, to allow you to start your testing if the problem is not related to starting the vehicle and only needs key on engine off. If you have to start the vehicle to reproduce the problem then you will need the full sized battery. 2) Battery terminal voltage okay, no damaged cell and the battery is not completely discharge. Put a battery sustainer on the vehicle and prep the vehicle for parasitic draw testing (doors latched etc.) so the vehicle will go to sleep and you can still access all of the fuse panels (if one is in the trunk also latch the trunk). 3) But an amp clamp meter on one of the battery cables (at this point in the testing the current clamp meter is just faster and I don't have to touch the vehicle as delivered and I am not looking for a high resolution current reading), I use a B&K 316 which has a resolution of 10mA. All you are looking for with the B&K is if you have a large parasitic draw and about how much and is it dynamic. You can monitor the meter as the car goes to sleep to see any changes. Monitor the meter periodically and wait until the vehicle goes to sleep without a draw or it never goes asleep proper and wait about 30 minutes. If it has a high draw after 45 minutes then watch the meter to see if the current is constant or is changes periodically (dynamic). 4) Current is constant but high. This means you have a constant draw which could be a bulb or some other constant "dumb" load. You generally move on to looking at fuses and dash with a thermal camera to see where the load is generating heat. Many times this is an aftermarket thingamabob who is misbehaving. 5) Current is dynamic and high. This means you have a dynamic draw which is not a simple "dumb" load, it is complex system behavior which usually means there is a module periodically waking up, which intern wakes up a bus, which then wakes up other modules connected to this bus, and after the active module sees no bus activity it will then go asleep again, and once again wake up for no apparent reason, and this pattern repeats, and what you get is a periodically dynamic parasitic draw current waveform. This is where I remove the B&K 316 and put on my Pico current clamp so I can see the exact dynamic behavior of the current with my Pico Scope. As you can see I have yet to disconnect the battery after the sustainer is connected. I want the sustainer to put a slight charge on the battery while I am diagnosing the vehicle. Here again at this point in the testing I don't need a huge amount of current resolution so the Pico current clamp will work just fine. By analyzing the waveform you can start to understand what system would match the behavior. From here to fine tune your troubleshooting strategy to see where you would want to look first. The Pico Scope waveform is needed proof of the problem to the customer. It is proof of applying diagnostics. If you just write down that you have done some diagnostic test without proof the customer may not agree with your conclusions, and the customer may have no idea about what the test means, but are not happy that the test costs money to perform. Which is a bit strange because diagnostic time is usually the highest hourly rate if broken out separately and overhead included. The industry is to blame for not educating the customers on the need to diagnose (diagnostic time estimate) before providing a repair estimate. Which is also a bit strange because how can you provide a repair estimate if you do not know what is wrong? Perhaps you make more money by just shot-gunning perfectly good parts which is in my opinion is unethical. If you replace enough parts and the customer pays, do you really need to treat the customer any different? Why diagnose? if you make more money just changed good parts, regardless if this fixes the problem. 6) Identify the problem to a particular circuit, this is easily found with a thermal camera if you have an idea where to look, which is one of the reasons we recorded the current waveform with the Pico scope. 7) If you need to narrow down a common fuse power feed between several modules (they are all powered by the same fuse, which is very common) you can then use the B&K 316 to look at each module power feed wire current after the splice to narrow the draw down to one module. 8) Inform the customer of the testing results (which includes all the documented data like scope captures, thermal camera captures, etc.) and issue a repair estimate. If the customer accepts the estimate then you can repair the vehicle. It is not uncommon for the customer to decline repairs if you have narrowed down the problem to a module, unless it will need to be reprogrammed, learned or matched. Before releasing the vehicle obviously the customer must pay the bill. 9) Repair approved. Replace the failed part or remove the thingamabob, reprogram a module/learn if necessary, and retest. Here I use the Pico current clamp and scope on the same settings at the diagnostic report and verify proper operation. 10) Parasitic draw resolved, take final sleep current measurement. This is the point in the testing where I introduce my DMM to measure accurately the normal operation sleep current using the methods in the video as to not wake up the vehicle while I introduce the current meter. This is the final measurement to include with the invoice. With the B&K or the Pico I know the current is below 50 mA or below so I am confident the vehicle is going to sleep, I just need to measure the final value. As you can see from the above sequence that I don't disconnect the battery unless I have to replace it. Normally the battery will be spanked and you want to start charging it as soon as possible. However, don't use a charger, use a sustainer to set the voltage to produce a charge current of about 1/20 C to 1/10 C rate (e.g. for 80Ah battery use 8 Amps), so the testing voltage is stable, regulated and low noise. This way after working on the car the battery is charged enough to release the vehicle to the customer once the bill is paid.
To not loose settings , keep alive memory etc. sometimes the following may come in handy: Connect a second battery to the B+ stud of the alternator and chassis ground. Then open the ground/negative connection of the original battery's post and go inline with your metering device. Then you disconnect the auxiliary battery. In a similar way this technique will allow to change a battery without loosing information/memory.
@@MechanicMindset I use a current shunt (with the pico) and an "Amp Hound 2". These two methods give me a fast and effective method to locating quiescent current draw. However most cases are due to bus wakeups/keepalives and therefore the picoscope or Canalyzer take over since traditional testing methods don't work for these type of drains. I have a flir IR camera too but never seem to have it with me when I'm diagnosing a drain
@@ashleyg3357 The shunt nearly featured in the video… Interesting you use CANalyzer, I used to used to use that as an EMC tech working at MIRA. How do you get on with it. It’s never really been considered a diagnostic tool…
@@MechanicMindset I use it daily for various topics, primarily I use it for remote support and especially for transmission complaints or stalling complaints. You are right it doesn't provide all the information you need but it makes a good piece to the puzzle. The picoscope is the tool that really does find the culprit. We also use canalyzer for UDS which is great when OEM diagnostic tools have limited actual values or IO control
@@ashleyg3357 Awesome, where I was before, they were looking to use VSpy, very powerful if you have the software to identify the awake commands etc. unfortunately, most of this is data they should make available on scan tools 😬
Darren, another AWESOME video, it's made me quite hungry whilst watching your endless tutorials, i think i def need a thermal camera, to check on my Pizza, so it's still warm !!🙂 keep up the great work, as ever, Bless 😇
@@MechanicMindset i was intrigued to check the prices for these 'thermal cameras' OMG i nearly died, they are very expensive, i thought the cost may have been very low or affordable, but are £££££'s in hundreds, me thinks a cold Pizza, or the Bath tub, is easily accommodating regardless of the critical temp' 🙄
@@ronhammons2070 Cheers for that, tip, any links? Made in -China ? if so, they usually take forever to get here !! i remember ordering a dinosaur when they were around, ,,, still waiting for delivery 🙂
Nice interesting Video but i have one question if im going to disconnect the battery (or battery cable) witch cable is best to remove first the positive or negative?
While electrically it does not make a difference where the circuit is opened the recommendation is to disconnect the negative side first. Reason being no short will occur if by accident the wrench/tool used to disconnect touches ground. This would happen while disconnecting B+ first.
@@MechanicMindset Okay i also learned this the hard way, years ago by grounding the wrench to the chassis of my old Opel Frontera 2.5 (the positive pole is just next to the ABS pump) thank god that i got lucky and the wrench didin`t weld herself to the ABS pump but my qestion was more i direction of PCM and varius modules in the modern cars. Is there any difference for the sensitive electronics on board.
@@alexybodom 😂 I know some good welders. It’s never come up as an issue. The big one was where people were shorting pos and neg together after a battery reset to drain capacitors. This will damage ECUs. Also just making sure there are some electrical loads on after jump starting, to soak the current surge
@@MechanicMindset I saw someone recommend doing a capacitor drain by disconnecting negative battery cable. Then depressing the brake pedal to "short" them. With the load of the bulb filaments, you are less likely to damage the ECUs.
Electronic Specialties makes several miliamp range amp clamps that are designed for parasitic drain measurements that fit easily around the postive or negative battery cables and their really accurate
Hey i bought your pico cheap kit from Amazon . Its in the post. So have you ever thought about altering yours so the grounds per channel are not shared? Video of yours explained how it caused a misfire.
@@MechanicMindset anything is possible. To want something is to solve the design puzzle on how to get it. I presume inside wants looking at. Im a great taker aparter. Update you if U if I ever find out.
ok what happens when you have a draw ..and did exact what you said to do ...but I still can't find the draw ...I even pulled out all the fuses and relays out of both fuse boxes the interior fuse box and the engine bay fuse box ...I connect a amp clamp to the positive side and it gives me an indication that i still have a draw ..where can it be coming from ...need your help ..
Could be a bad alternator, even if it's charging properly. It could have a faulty diode internally. Try disconnecting the wires going to the alternator and then run your test.
Just wonder , if you drilled a short hole at the negative post , install e wire with a sheet metal screw , connect the wire to the meter , the other wire to chassis ground , meter at 10 amps , now remove ground clamp at battery over the wire , now you have a perfect connection .
I use my digital multi meter bit I do not break the connection. One thing I always teach younger techs. Disconnecting the battery completely can reset all the modules back to normal if there really was an issue.
I sometimes use a Fluke i30 amp that clamp hooks to my Fluke 88. It has a much wider clamp area. But it takes some practice with decimal placement with the meter reading. YYYYeah the i30 is about 500 bucks 😮
Hello, good morning, I am a follower of your channel and I am contacting you, to be able to comment on the following situation that occurs in my vehicle, Ford mondeo mk2 2.5 v6, one morning the battery was discharged, without knowing how to change the battery, when month or so, the car stopped in full operation, it was as if the electricity had died, stop, giving it and giving it until it started, again as if the battery was without charge, it was only a month old, I changed the alternator regulator , and well, I bought it, it charges over 14.5V, and I considered the fault finished, one day cleaning the interior, I left the radio on, while I cleaned, and nothing a few minutes later, the voltage began to drop, less to less, until the battery was discharged at that moment, I was surprised because that had never happened to him, I did another test, with the battery charged again, I gave the contact, after a short time, equal to less to less , that in a moment the battery goes away, I recharge it, install it, and leave it and connected approximately 2 months, until I realized that the red light of the alarm did not blink, I checked it and discharged, that did not happen in the past either, it carried out the current leakage test with the multimeter, because I told myself that this would have to be a current leak, it is the logical thing to think, and what was my surprise, that the value it gave is 0.02 amps, with the battery just charged, so there is no current leak, I have also performed the voltage drop test and it gives 000v both positive and negative, and then what happens to it? I don't even know what else to do, regarding what I am explaining to you, I await your prompt clarification, please, greetings.
The biggest mistake I always see is measuring the battery voltage without a load. Battery can read 13.5 volts but a drain from the starter and it goes to 5V. Put your meter on the battery and put a load on the battery like starter, headlights. or AC compressor. The volts you see are real.
Hi , Sean here , mechanic from Ireland. Love your videos. Keep them coming. Just wondering where you got the seek camera attachment for your phone please. ? They vary in price wildly from €33(ali express) to €300(amazon) . Would you trust the ali express? Also I made a pulse pressure sensor, for myself and a few workmates. They work great. Thanks. 😊
Awesome, pulse sensors are great! The seek camera I got off Amazon. Not sure if they are genuine for €33, but I suppose it’s worth a try for that price!
As a DIY or a newer mechanic installing a battery what is an easy (and fast) way for someone to find out if it is a Drain (parasitic draw), Alternator, Relay, or something grounding out? Do you have to wait until there is an issue multiple times? Is there a way to check it out when installing the battery and then checking the Starting-Charging System (to deal with it all at once)? Thanks in advance
As always on this channel, this video is didactically excellent. Moreover, it is very pleasant to have all this presented in the distinguished manner of a British gentleman. Thank you.
You show a 3 milliamp draw on the multimeter, and say that is a large draw on the battery. But earlier 50 milliamps is acceptable, so I must be missing something here. Please clear up my confusion!
The use of a thermal imager can be a real time saver, but they can be misleading, they're best used after a vehicle has sat undisturbed for a period long enough for everything to cool down.
@@MechanicMindset I'm fairly sure a thermal imager would work just fine anywhere near the equator on a hot day, as long as the vehicle has been parked in the shade and has sat for a while. Looking for relative temperature differentials, learning the difference between what's normally hot and not. When I first got my Flir, I found a relay glowing brightly, it wasn't the relay at fault, it was its connections. :O) I pulled out all 3 of my DMMs yesterday and did some comparisons, now I'm not sure which one to trust :O) Thanks!
Nice video!! I Like the amp clamp first at the battery separation points to isolate fuse boxes. MV check across fuses, unplug associated components! CAN bus is also a nice place to scope if it’s not so easy to locate
Great video! I think I will try your course, because now I'm curious to see tip no 3. Regarding that automotive multimeter, for precise measuring of mV can be used an oscilloscope?
Yes give it a go, I have big plans for it! You can try the Free Taster to get an idea of how we do things 👍 Yes, I suppose you could use an oscilloscope, they are definitely accurate enough. Might not be so convenient though 😁
Darren if your vehicle has multiple leads let’s say two coming off the ground post of the battery does it make a difference which one you connect to with the meter to get an amperage reading or does it have to be the larger of the two ground cables? Just checking before doing. Thanks 👍
Good question; you would need to make sure that both are disconnected. It would probably be easier to take the battery terminal off instead. My Suzuki is like that and one of the splits it easy to remove, the other is buried underneath
Is 0.15A normal for a battery drain? For me it’s a bit high 150mA. But it might not be a problem depending on the battery size and how the car is used. Below 50mA is ideal. 0.05A
HI Darren - thanks as always for your high quality videos. I've subscribed to your paid channel and would encourage others to do so as well - great value for $$. I've had difficulties in the past using my fluke multi-meter regarding voltage drops across fuses due to the millivolt value. I have been looking for a good millivolt volt meter and like the one you've used here. Are there any others you can suggest? I can't seem to find the 710 you use. I'm in Canada so maybe it's a UK thing... any thoughts or suggestions really welcomed.
Glad you are enjoying the content and lessons! I did buy this Mac about 20 years ago, might have been superseded. Had a quick look online, I think the Fluke 179 should do it. That has the separate mV setting, so assume it measures down to 1/10th of a mV
@@MechanicMindset i met a guy who was outside Halfords claiming he was there to buy a nee battery for his car. I said how did he get to Halfords. He said in his car. I said did it need a bump start first. He said no it started fine. Im laughing. So what made you think you needed a new battery. Oh because there was a light on telling him to buy a nee battery. Logic here is he lives very close to that Halfords. As he was a Volvo driver. (Almost zombies in personality most of them) he never realised the battery light was only saying not charging. So alternator. Aux belt. Cable issue. He thought because it was a symbol of a battery it meant go buy a new one. But the fact his car cranked fine never sparked a thought in his volvo brain that that may be wrong. Ha ha
I'm sick up to my eyeballs with these dopey battery drain test videos. I love it when mechanics think they are electricians- literally the blind leading the blind. Maybe next you can extoll the virtue of the shitbird solder shrink butt connectors or how soldering old underhood wiring is somehow smart. Electricity does exactly two things- it either induces magnetism or it creates heat. Anything taking out a good car battery is getting warm. Park the stupid car with a stupid charger on it then scan it with a thermal cam. Remember to look underneath the car as well. Afterwards, you can marvel at the non-melted probe tips that you have (you know, to save you from looking like an incompetent boob). Furthermore, not all clamp probes have a DC spec, and even if any particular probe is good for DC, it probably isn't worth a shit at 8 milliamps. Gonna measure millivolt drops across fuses you say? Better make sure your probe tips aren't so melted that they don't make contact with the fuse points. What's that? Your F-150 has J-case fuses? Better luck next time. The best advice any TH-camr can offer to the unwashed masses is to cultivate a relationship with a mechanic that is mutually rewarding such that the mechanic is looking out for your best interest. If you take the "any swinging dick will do" attitude (meaning you are a bad customer), it is predictable that your results will be less than favorable. You always hear about the bad mechanics, but you never hear about the bad customers. If you don't trust him with his bill, you shouldn't trust him with your car either. That said, if the relationship is proper, the mechanic will be thoughtful and responsive. One of the biggest red flags I get is when someone says "I can't find a decent mechanic". Not only are they the worst to do business with, the junk they drop on you is more difficult to repair because they had their brother in law butcher it over brewskis and he never came back.
I’m not doing videos but I play with cars for more than 12 years and special with PicoScope and i know exactly everything what is there but you know just playing basic and playing around. Show me your skills
Hands down best video for drain testing, big thumbs up.
Cheers Mike!!
Fantastic job especially the meter in series with ground of the battery to a ground then only remove the accessory ground don’t know how I never thought of that just genius CHEERS
Hope it helps! We used to have a special tool at BMW that pretty much did the same
Darren this is really a tremendous course. I sent you a message on my own battery drain experience. I’m a hands on learner and by physically doing the tests it never registered in my brain that a simple 12V lamp staying on already exceeds the mA of say 20 to 50mA limits on most cars. The picture I sent shows one bulb drawing .065A. Thanks for sharing. Artie 👍
Hey Artie, glad you are still enjoying the content, you are a very valued member! I appreciate your contributions 😁
Yes I saw your post, about to get to them. I agree, the .065 could be a problem depending on battery size and condition 👍
At 6:19, interesting to see can bus communication through the amp clamp on the screen.
My approach is slightly different. What follows is my basic procedure:
1) Measure battery terminal voltage.
What you are looking for is if the battery voltage is very low like 10 VDC, which could indicate a damaged cell. If so it is prudent to first get a new battery on order and take the old one out and see if it will accept a full charge which will probably take 8 hours. If it fails to charge, the battery is damaged, if it does charge you can test capacity with a battery internal impedance meter at the battery terminals. If the battery is older than about 2 years, for a parasitic draw problem vehicle, the battery will must likely not be recoverable. However, there is a very small chance it will recover. While you are waiting for the new battery, you can put in a similar of smaller size battery, could to have a flooded and an AGM on hand, to allow you to start your testing if the problem is not related to starting the vehicle and only needs key on engine off. If you have to start the vehicle to reproduce the problem then you will need the full sized battery.
2) Battery terminal voltage okay, no damaged cell and the battery is not completely discharge. Put a battery sustainer on the vehicle and prep the vehicle for parasitic draw testing (doors latched etc.) so the vehicle will go to sleep and you can still access all of the fuse panels (if one is in the trunk also latch the trunk).
3) But an amp clamp meter on one of the battery cables (at this point in the testing the current clamp meter is just faster and I don't have to touch the vehicle as delivered and I am not looking for a high resolution current reading), I use a B&K 316 which has a resolution of 10mA. All you are looking for with the B&K is if you have a large parasitic draw and about how much and is it dynamic. You can monitor the meter as the car goes to sleep to see any changes. Monitor the meter periodically and wait until the vehicle goes to sleep without a draw or it never goes asleep proper and wait about 30 minutes. If it has a high draw after 45 minutes then watch the meter to see if the current is constant or is changes periodically (dynamic).
4) Current is constant but high. This means you have a constant draw which could be a bulb or some other constant "dumb" load. You generally move on to looking at fuses and dash with a thermal camera to see where the load is generating heat. Many times this is an aftermarket thingamabob who is misbehaving.
5) Current is dynamic and high. This means you have a dynamic draw which is not a simple "dumb" load, it is complex system behavior which usually means there is a module periodically waking up, which intern wakes up a bus, which then wakes up other modules connected to this bus, and after the active module sees no bus activity it will then go asleep again, and once again wake up for no apparent reason, and this pattern repeats, and what you get is a periodically dynamic parasitic draw current waveform.
This is where I remove the B&K 316 and put on my Pico current clamp so I can see the exact dynamic behavior of the current with my Pico Scope. As you can see I have yet to disconnect the battery after the sustainer is connected. I want the sustainer to put a slight charge on the battery while I am diagnosing the vehicle. Here again at this point in the testing I don't need a huge amount of current resolution so the Pico current clamp will work just fine.
By analyzing the waveform you can start to understand what system would match the behavior. From here to fine tune your troubleshooting strategy to see where you would want to look first. The Pico Scope waveform is needed proof of the problem to the customer. It is proof of applying diagnostics. If you just write down that you have done some diagnostic test without proof the customer may not agree with your conclusions, and the customer may have no idea about what the test means, but are not happy that the test costs money to perform. Which is a bit strange because diagnostic time is usually the highest hourly rate if broken out separately and overhead included. The industry is to blame for not educating the customers on the need to diagnose (diagnostic time estimate) before providing a repair estimate. Which is also a bit strange because how can you provide a repair estimate if you do not know what is wrong? Perhaps you make more money by just shot-gunning perfectly good parts which is in my opinion is unethical. If you replace enough parts and the customer pays, do you really need to treat the customer any different? Why diagnose? if you make more money just changed good parts, regardless if this fixes the problem.
6) Identify the problem to a particular circuit, this is easily found with a thermal camera if you have an idea where to look, which is one of the reasons we recorded the current waveform with the Pico scope.
7) If you need to narrow down a common fuse power feed between several modules (they are all powered by the same fuse, which is very common) you can then use the B&K 316 to look at each module power feed wire current after the splice to narrow the draw down to one module.
8) Inform the customer of the testing results (which includes all the documented data like scope captures, thermal camera captures, etc.) and issue a repair estimate. If the customer accepts the estimate then you can repair the vehicle. It is not uncommon for the customer to decline repairs if you have narrowed down the problem to a module, unless it will need to be reprogrammed, learned or matched. Before releasing the vehicle obviously the customer must pay the bill.
9) Repair approved. Replace the failed part or remove the thingamabob, reprogram a module/learn if necessary, and retest. Here I use the Pico current clamp and scope on the same settings at the diagnostic report and verify proper operation.
10) Parasitic draw resolved, take final sleep current measurement. This is the point in the testing where I introduce my DMM to measure accurately the normal operation sleep current using the methods in the video as to not wake up the vehicle while I introduce the current meter. This is the final measurement to include with the invoice. With the B&K or the Pico I know the current is below 50 mA or below so I am confident the vehicle is going to sleep, I just need to measure the final value.
As you can see from the above sequence that I don't disconnect the battery unless I have to replace it. Normally the battery will be spanked and you want to start charging it as soon as possible. However, don't use a charger, use a sustainer to set the voltage to produce a charge current of about 1/20 C to 1/10 C rate (e.g. for 80Ah battery use 8 Amps), so the testing voltage is stable, regulated and low noise. This way after working on the car the battery is charged enough to release the vehicle to the customer once the bill is paid.
The thermal camera is pretty awesome, your video as well.👍
Love the thermal camera, powerful tool!
I like the fused jumper wire with a scope. Did it this morning on the job to verify a parasitic drain repair.
Awesome job 👍
Just saved this video to my DIY playlist and how to playlist.
To not loose settings , keep alive memory etc. sometimes the following may come in handy:
Connect a second battery to the B+ stud of the alternator and chassis ground. Then open the ground/negative connection of the original battery's post and go inline with your metering device. Then you disconnect the auxiliary battery.
In a similar way this technique will allow to change a battery without loosing information/memory.
Nice tip Jurgen, cheers!
I just let the engine run while changing a battery lol swap the battery quick, never had any problems
I never knew you could LOOSE settings or be LOOSING information
Tip no. 1 - mind blown, thanks for this
So simple but very effective right! Do you usually use a meter for you drain testing?
@@MechanicMindset I use a current shunt (with the pico) and an "Amp Hound 2". These two methods give me a fast and effective method to locating quiescent current draw. However most cases are due to bus wakeups/keepalives and therefore the picoscope or Canalyzer take over since traditional testing methods don't work for these type of drains. I have a flir IR camera too but never seem to have it with me when I'm diagnosing a drain
@@ashleyg3357 The shunt nearly featured in the video…
Interesting you use CANalyzer, I used to used to use that as an EMC tech working at MIRA. How do you get on with it. It’s never really been considered a diagnostic tool…
@@MechanicMindset I use it daily for various topics, primarily I use it for remote support and especially for transmission complaints or stalling complaints. You are right it doesn't provide all the information you need but it makes a good piece to the puzzle. The picoscope is the tool that really does find the culprit. We also use canalyzer for UDS which is great when OEM diagnostic tools have limited actual values or IO control
@@ashleyg3357 Awesome, where I was before, they were looking to use VSpy, very powerful if you have the software to identify the awake commands etc. unfortunately, most of this is data they should make available on scan tools 😬
Some really great tips in this video Darren, especially like the amp clamp tip .
Keep up the good work buddy 👍
Cheers Lawson, glad you enjoyed the video.
How did you get on with that Focus from the Simply Diag day?!
@@MechanicMindset customer traded it in unfortunately, would have really liked to try new BCM when available
Excellent diagnose D. Keep up the good work
Thanks for the support D!
Great tips Darren - thanks 😉
Well done - and understandable!
Very good explanation and demonstration appreciate thanks 💐
Which #Tips was your favourite?
Darren, another AWESOME video, it's made me quite hungry whilst watching your endless tutorials, i think i def need a thermal camera, to check on my Pizza, so it's still warm !!🙂 keep up the great work, as ever, Bless 😇
🤣 or to check that the bath tub is the perfect temperature. Great tool. Cheers Solly!
@@MechanicMindset i was intrigued to check the prices for these 'thermal cameras' OMG i nearly died, they are very expensive, i thought the cost may have been very low or affordable, but are £££££'s in hundreds, me thinks a cold Pizza, or the Bath tub, is easily accommodating regardless of the critical temp' 🙄
@@sollykhan2385 Haha! There are some Seek and Flir cameras for your phone which are reasonable, around £200 GBP for me
@@sollykhan2385Hand held infrared themometer $24.Checks pizza too.
@@ronhammons2070 Cheers for that, tip, any links? Made in -China ? if so, they usually take forever to get here !! i remember ordering a dinosaur when they were around, ,,, still waiting for delivery 🙂
Nice interesting Video but i have one question if im going to disconnect the battery (or battery cable) witch cable is best to remove first the positive or negative?
While electrically it does not make a difference where the circuit is opened the recommendation is to disconnect the negative side first. Reason being no short will occur if by accident the wrench/tool used to disconnect touches ground. This would happen while disconnecting B+ first.
As Jurgen says, negative. I learnt this as an apprentice; did live first then made some sparks when the ratchet hit the body 😂
@@MechanicMindset Okay i also learned this the hard way, years ago by grounding the wrench to the chassis of my old Opel Frontera 2.5 (the positive pole is just next to the ABS pump) thank god that i got lucky and the wrench didin`t weld herself to the ABS pump but my qestion was more i direction of PCM and varius modules in the modern cars. Is there any difference for the sensitive electronics on board.
@@alexybodom 😂 I know some good welders.
It’s never come up as an issue. The big one was where people were shorting pos and neg together after a battery reset to drain capacitors. This will damage ECUs. Also just making sure there are some electrical loads on after jump starting, to soak the current surge
@@MechanicMindset I saw someone recommend doing a capacitor drain by disconnecting negative battery cable. Then depressing the brake pedal to "short" them. With the load of the bulb filaments, you are less likely to damage the ECUs.
SUBSTANTIAL Mechanic Mindset
Tutorial great video brilliant 👏 👌 👍
Thank you
Good Evening
Mechanic Mindset
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Cheers Nick, glad you enjoyed the video! Hope you’re enjoying the long weekend 👍
Excellent share..thank you
Great tips!
Hello and thank you for the video, it's been a long time
Yes it has! I have been very busy, but ready to start posting more videos now 👍
Electronic Specialties makes several miliamp range amp clamps that are designed for parasitic drain measurements that fit easily around the postive or negative battery cables and their really accurate
Ah cool, I’ll check it out 👍
Thanks for sharing 👍
Excelent video.
Hey i bought your pico cheap kit from Amazon . Its in the post. So have you ever thought about altering yours so the grounds per channel are not shared?
Video of yours explained how it caused a misfire.
Cool little tool. I’ve not thought about doing that. Not sure it was possible. What do you think?
@@MechanicMindset anything is possible. To want something is to solve the design puzzle on how to get it.
I presume inside wants looking at. Im a great taker aparter. Update you if U if I ever find out.
ok what happens when you have a draw ..and did exact what you said to do ...but I still can't find the draw ...I even pulled out all the fuses and relays out of both fuse boxes the interior fuse box and the engine bay fuse box ...I connect a amp clamp to the positive side and it gives me an indication that i still have a draw ..where can it be coming from ...need your help ..
Could be a bad alternator, even if it's charging properly. It could have a faulty diode internally. Try disconnecting the wires going to the alternator and then run your test.
Just wonder , if you drilled a short hole at the negative post , install e wire with a sheet metal screw , connect the wire to the meter , the other wire to chassis ground , meter at 10 amps , now remove ground clamp at battery over the wire , now you have a perfect connection .
It's lead so just solder a wire to it.
I use my digital multi meter bit I do not break the connection. One thing I always teach younger techs. Disconnecting the battery completely can reset all the modules back to normal if there really was an issue.
For sure. If possible, keep the circuit 😁
Good video, I wonder if you could tell me where to buy the banana clips that allow you hook up the back probe to it?
Sure, try this link. amzn.to/3xiYf86
Or search for 4mm Alligator Clip
@@MechanicMindset Ok,thanks!
I sometimes use a Fluke i30 amp that clamp hooks to my Fluke 88. It has a much wider clamp area. But it takes some practice with decimal placement with the meter reading. YYYYeah the i30 is about 500 bucks 😮
9:40 How it's to count?
Hello, good morning, I am a follower of your channel and I am contacting you, to be able to comment on the following situation that occurs in my vehicle, Ford mondeo mk2 2.5 v6, one morning the battery was discharged, without knowing how to change the battery, when month or so, the car stopped in full operation, it was as if the electricity had died, stop, giving it and giving it until it started, again as if the battery was without charge, it was only a month old, I changed the alternator regulator , and well, I bought it, it charges over 14.5V, and I considered the fault finished, one day cleaning the interior, I left the radio on, while I cleaned, and nothing a few minutes later, the voltage began to drop, less to less, until the battery was discharged at that moment, I was surprised because that had never happened to him, I did another test, with the battery charged again, I gave the contact, after a short time, equal to less to less , that in a moment the battery goes away, I recharge it, install it, and leave it and connected approximately 2 months, until I realized that the red light of the alarm did not blink, I checked it and discharged, that did not happen in the past either, it carried out the current leakage test with the multimeter, because I told myself that this would have to be a current leak, it is the logical thing to think, and what was my surprise, that the value it gave is 0.02 amps, with the battery just charged, so there is no current leak, I have also performed the voltage drop test and it gives 000v both positive and negative, and then what happens to it? I don't even know what else to do, regarding what I am explaining to you, I await your prompt clarification, please, greetings.
Sorry, not sure what to suggest if the battery is new, there is no drain, and the alternator is ok. Maybe there is an intermittent drain?
Can't find the voltage drop chart on your site
In the TH-cam Waveform Library 👍 www.mechanicmindset.com/free-access
Thank you 👍
@@andrewwhite986 I’ve just realised the name; I think you may have to sign up again 😣
No Problem. Its ok. Sorry to bother you. Great video 👍
The biggest mistake I always see is measuring the battery voltage without a load. Battery can read 13.5 volts but a drain from the starter and it goes to 5V. Put your meter on the battery and put a load on the battery like starter, headlights. or AC compressor. The volts you see are real.
How would I do that? The car has to be running or?
Hi , Sean here , mechanic from Ireland. Love your videos. Keep them coming. Just wondering where you got the seek camera attachment for your phone please. ? They vary in price wildly from €33(ali express) to €300(amazon) . Would you trust the ali express? Also I made a pulse pressure sensor, for myself and a few workmates. They work great. Thanks. 😊
Awesome, pulse sensors are great! The seek camera I got off Amazon. Not sure if they are genuine for €33, but I suppose it’s worth a try for that price!
As a DIY or a newer mechanic installing a battery what is an easy (and fast) way for someone to find out if it is a Drain (parasitic draw), Alternator, Relay, or something grounding out? Do you have to wait until there is an issue multiple times? Is there a way to check it out when installing the battery and then checking the Starting-Charging System (to deal with it all at once)?
Thanks in advance
You would have to do a drain test over time. Also check the battery with a tester. I would also check alternator charging voltage
Good video Darren.
Thanks, which tip is your favourite? Or do you have some other ideas? 👍
Awesome video as usual, thanks.
Do you also have a video on how to rectify battery drain problem after you identify the source?
Like replace the faulty component?
@@MechanicMindset 🤣🤣
That was not exactly the answer I was looking for, but no point in further clarification now😂
@@mub3ady 😆 Haha, can you clarify any further? 👍
I had a parasitic draw for 5 years. Then I got divorced. Problem solved 😂
@@marionmc1 🫣🤣
🤣🤣
As always on this channel, this video is didactically excellent. Moreover, it is very pleasant to have all this presented in the distinguished manner of a British gentleman. Thank you.
Not clear on multi meter settings for ameter.
Good stuff. 👍🏼
great tips
What would you add to the list?
Can the small pico i just got do relative compression test
It sure can! I have a video doing the test with an amp clamp and with battery voltage
@@MechanicMindset 1 hour ago is 5 am. Dont you ever sleep 😴
@@jamesbarratt593 Haha! Just wake up early
@@MechanicMindset you sure you are part VAMP...? ha ha
You show a 3 milliamp draw on the multimeter, and say that is a large draw on the battery. But earlier 50 milliamps is acceptable, so I must be missing something here. Please clear up my confusion!
I just looked, I said a ‘good drain’, meaning ‘ok’. I think I was looking at the same part as you?
Brilliant
0.01 it's good
What does the word shatty mean?
Don’t know 🤣 Tell me the sentence; maybe an error
What is shatty?
The use of a thermal imager can be a real time saver, but they can be misleading, they're best used after a vehicle has sat undisturbed for a period long enough for everything to cool down.
For sure! You need cool conditions. No good for hot climates I imagine
@@MechanicMindset I'm fairly sure a thermal imager would work just fine anywhere near the equator on a hot day, as long as the vehicle has been parked in the shade and has sat for a while. Looking for relative temperature differentials, learning the difference between what's normally hot and not.
When I first got my Flir, I found a relay glowing brightly, it wasn't the relay at fault, it was its connections. :O)
I pulled out all 3 of my DMMs yesterday and did some comparisons, now I'm not sure which one to trust :O)
Thanks!
Nice video!!
I Like the amp clamp first at the battery separation points to isolate fuse boxes. MV check across fuses, unplug associated components!
CAN bus is also a nice place to scope if it’s not so easy to locate
Like a pro! 👌. What issues are you coming across for battery drain?
Hi, these are great tips! Your video quality is superb. Do hybrid and electric vehicles require a different type of scanner?
Thanks! No, as long as the software includes the vehicle it should work fine 👍
Thanks
Nice vid I years ago invested in a battery tender that plugs into the DLC makes it easy for battery drain and changing out a battery CHEERS
Ah yes, nice little tool to keep it all alive! 👍
Good video
Thanks! Which tip was your favourite?
@@MechanicMindset the one without disconnecting battery. Makes a world of difference when diagnosing current draw.thank you sir
Great video! I think I will try your course, because now I'm curious to see tip no 3. Regarding that automotive multimeter, for precise measuring of mV can be used an oscilloscope?
Yes give it a go, I have big plans for it! You can try the Free Taster to get an idea of how we do things 👍
Yes, I suppose you could use an oscilloscope, they are definitely accurate enough. Might not be so convenient though 😁
Darren if your vehicle has multiple leads let’s say two coming off the ground post of the battery does it make a difference which one you connect to with the meter to get an amperage reading or does it have to be the larger of the two ground cables? Just checking before doing. Thanks 👍
Good question; you would need to make sure that both are disconnected. It would probably be easier to take the battery terminal off instead. My Suzuki is like that and one of the splits it easy to remove, the other is buried underneath
@@MechanicMindset same here on my Honda. One is easy the other not so much Lol 😊
0.15 amper normal ?
Is 0.15A normal for a battery drain? For me it’s a bit high 150mA. But it might not be a problem depending on the battery size and how the car is used. Below 50mA is ideal. 0.05A
Perfect...!!!
Thanks! Which tip did you like the most?
@@MechanicMindset The method of disconnecting the battery but previously placing the multimeter.
HI Darren - thanks as always for your high quality videos. I've subscribed to your paid channel and would encourage others to do so as well - great value for $$. I've had difficulties in the past using my fluke multi-meter regarding voltage drops across fuses due to the millivolt value. I have been looking for a good millivolt volt meter and like the one you've used here. Are there any others you can suggest? I can't seem to find the 710 you use. I'm in Canada so maybe it's a UK thing... any thoughts or suggestions really welcomed.
Glad you are enjoying the content and lessons!
I did buy this Mac about 20 years ago, might have been superseded. Had a quick look online, I think the Fluke 179 should do it. That has the separate mV setting, so assume it measures down to 1/10th of a mV
90u I'll k I ou.
Lol did blow my fuse forgot to but it back last week 🤦🏼
Happens to the best of us 🤣
Did test it give -11
7
It’s an alligator clamp M8 lol 😎🇺🇸👍
Haha! Yeah, I called it ‘Alligator’ in the description, but croc clip rolls better 🤣
The 'Diagnostic Coach' program now includes a Battery Drain Diagnostics training course from $10! www.mechanicmindset.com/diagnostic-coach
👨🔧👨💻👍
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Whenever I see a Halfords battery I know to expect that the wiring might have major problems. Ha ha ha ha
I hate Halfords.
Haha! I was a bit concerned that this 4 year old car has a new battery fitted. I think it may have been stored for a while
@@MechanicMindset i met a guy who was outside Halfords claiming he was there to buy a nee battery for his car. I said how did he get to Halfords. He said in his car. I said did it need a bump start first. He said no it started fine. Im laughing. So what made you think you needed a new battery. Oh because there was a light on telling him to buy a nee battery.
Logic here is he lives very close to that Halfords. As he was a Volvo driver. (Almost zombies in personality most of them) he never realised the battery light was only saying not charging. So alternator. Aux belt. Cable issue. He thought because it was a symbol of a battery it meant go buy a new one. But the fact his car cranked fine never sparked a thought in his volvo brain that that may be wrong.
Ha ha
@@jamesbarratt593 😂😂😂 God job there are people like us to get them on the right path.
Next time use common methods, that's a bit complicated for starters.
5 “Pro Tips” 😁
We have a course on battery drain explaining in detail these steps from absolute basics 👍
Just disconnect it from the battery; much easier. Also, using the chart system is very inaccurate.
I'm sick up to my eyeballs with these dopey battery drain test videos. I love it when mechanics think they are electricians- literally the blind leading the blind. Maybe next you can extoll the virtue of the shitbird solder shrink butt connectors or how soldering old underhood wiring is somehow smart.
Electricity does exactly two things- it either induces magnetism or it creates heat. Anything taking out a good car battery is getting warm. Park the stupid car with a stupid charger on it then scan it with a thermal cam. Remember to look underneath the car as well. Afterwards, you can marvel at the non-melted probe tips that you have (you know, to save you from looking like an incompetent boob).
Furthermore, not all clamp probes have a DC spec, and even if any particular probe is good for DC, it probably isn't worth a shit at 8 milliamps. Gonna measure millivolt drops across fuses you say? Better make sure your probe tips aren't so melted that they don't make contact with the fuse points. What's that? Your F-150 has J-case fuses? Better luck next time.
The best advice any TH-camr can offer to the unwashed masses is to cultivate a relationship with a mechanic that is mutually rewarding such that the mechanic is looking out for your best interest. If you take the "any swinging dick will do" attitude (meaning you are a bad customer), it is predictable that your results will be less than favorable. You always hear about the bad mechanics, but you never hear about the bad customers. If you don't trust him with his bill, you shouldn't trust him with your car either. That said, if the relationship is proper, the mechanic will be thoughtful and responsive. One of the biggest red flags I get is when someone says "I can't find a decent mechanic". Not only are they the worst to do business with, the junk they drop on you is more difficult to repair because they had their brother in law butcher it over brewskis and he never came back.
I think you have to stop doing TH-cam videos
Oooh why?🫣
You are to basic and you have to much repetition
Show me real can bus diagnostics
@@74tyty Interesting feedback. Thank you very much
I’m not doing videos but I play with cars for more than 12 years and special with PicoScope and i know exactly everything what is there but you know just playing basic and playing around. Show me your skills
Really good video I didn't see anyone do with the battery leads 👍
Very good video I didn't see anyone do that with a battery leads before