Folks, this is why a $200+ diagnoses fee is justified. As a whole, we in this industry do not charge enough for diagnoses efforts, which always baffles me because it is the most critical part of the repair. Also, we don't train enough. This is a great instructional video and for those that are a bit green, start with a good understanding of Ohm's Law. You Sir, have earned a follow. Cheers
Sat through entire video, this was an awesome lesson in troubleshooting, following diagrams, and perseverance. He stayed focused until the job was completed. I salute you Sir! Thank you for teaching a 62 year old machinist/mechanic the right was to trace out an auto electrical issue. 🔧💯💯💯💯💯💯
Radio guy here. I was screaming at my screen but you probably did not hear me. Great channel by the way.Thanks for doing this stuff. Yes radios can be very thin now that there is no disc drive in most of them. Just installed one just like that the other day in a Grand am. I also saw the subwoofer amps early in the video when you were looking in the trunk.Been there done that. also noticed they had been wet and were rusting. i would have suspected them them at first sight. Common problem in boat stereos as well. Even with "marine" equipment.Great video anyway that steps through the process from beginning to end and is really not that time consuming if a person understands the system and how to use the tools
I'm not a radio guy but when he opened the trunk, I also noticed the amps and had a strong feeling that could be the problem. When he was going through the wiring diagrams and came to the one showing the amps on the circuit, I was thinking to myself, look in the trunk at those corroded amps. But showing the whole process is great, as you stated.
Still gotta have a supply of power coming from ignition or radio harness but that's from the ignition also. Unless they wired up the plug wrong and to the constant voltage wire for the clock or security. 2 amps bad no way. Even so these if I recall would lose the speakers once the amps were toast. More of a GM guy but you get my point.
Well this old dog learned a new trick reading across the fuse in that manner then looking up the chart that was reasonably accurate. Thank you for posting this
It's the only way to do it in my book. Pulling fuses is extinct. When I worked at VW (circa 2002-2010) we were taught to read fuses this way. Even back then, they didn't want us pulling fuses because it could wake up the car.
Agree completely! I had no idea those charts even existed. Theoretically, fuses shouldn't drop any voltage, but since they do have some real-world resistance, you can read the drop and figure out the current: V = I * R.
Love it! You earn every penny for your diagnostic time. Customers don’t appreciate what it takes to logically and correctly locate and repair electrical issues. I thoroughly appreciate the lesson, thank you.
I remember buying my first Fluke 88 about 35 + years ago at $400 Again another great video, I just passed 40 years as a master tech but I still learn from a few TH-camrs. Thank you 😎
I bought mine in 1989/90. replaced one fuse and maybe 7 batteries and it finally died dead 6 months ago. sent it to fluke...short story...they sold me a replacement for $366.00 total. so saved a couple of bucks.
Crazy! When I saw the wiring diagram, my mind instantly shot to the amplifiers causing it before you even got to testing the dash fuse panel. I had a similar situation in a Pontiac Vibe I used to own that did this and it turned out that a previous owner spliced the remote feed for the factory amp to the constant hot for memory. I used this same process to find the issue, but resorted to pulling fuses instead as I didn’t have a second multimeter nor did I have a test light available at the time. In the end, I had to wire a completely new harness connector to the vehicle to get it back to factory and then use an adapter for the radio to plug into that. Worked perfectly and no more draw! Loved that car - wish I still had it!
Yep! I was wondering if the amplifiers aren't bad, but instead aren't hooked up to switched power. That would leave them turned on all the time... drawing power. The other thing that points to a problem in wiring is both amps are pulling equal power. If they were both bad, I wouldn't expect them to have failed the exact same way so they are both pulling the same amount of power. The radio just sitting loose in the dash does not indicate a professional install. I would check the wires at the connector on the radio. One of those should provide a power signal to turn on the amps only when the radio is on.
How do you eat an elephant…one bite at a time. This was an excellent example of using a logical process to tackle a ghostly problem. No panic…. Just results and no getting lost in the weeds. Thank you!
The 12 years that I have been in this automotive field, I never used the test light for a draw test. Glad I watched and learned something new. Thank you for the helpful videos as always.
You're forgetting arguably the originator and the best in that category. ScannerDanner no hate on the gentlemen you mentioned they're all phenomenal at what they do. Hopefully you're already following ScannerDanner.
I don't usually comment but you sir save me a lot of headache, I've watched a lot of videos how to do parasitic drain but none of them make it more clear than you. You got my thump up and sub...
Hi, if you look at a schematic for the amplifiers, I notice there's no keyed ignition voltage. It seems the amplifiers must be switched off either by lack of audio input from the speaker wires, or with the "audio mute" wire on pin 2 of each amp. I'll bet there's either an aftermarket radio interface module (the rest of the radio you referred to) to blame, or the aftermarket radio isn’t properly powering down the amps when the key is off. keeping both amps powered up all the time.
Exactly what I was thinking. Something needs to control those amps. It would also be strange to me that both amps failed identically (not impossible though). And, I ALWAYS suspect an aftermarket install. It’s crazy what people do sometimes. And in this case there may be some sort of incompatibility due to the way the amps power down. The radio component in the dash is just a head unit. Find the radio module and I’m pretty sure you’ll discover it’s the issue due to the way it’s wired or some other failure.
@@melissathompson7229 what schematic are you using? Mine shows all power feeds hot at all times (on the factory amps). The turn on wire from the aftermarket radio wouldn't be used.
Possibly the person that installed the stereo used a power wire instead of the remote power wire. If they don’t have a power light on them it’d be hard to tell they were always on. I just don’t believe both amps are bad but they probably both got wet so possibly??? I noticed the amps immediately when you triggered the truck latch and assumed y’all already diagnosed it before shooting the video
I,m not a car mekaniks, but I would have askt the car owner - Have you installed anything, or are anything done to the car recently - 🤔 ? - maby someone cangech an amp or something, and maby you then drive, you do not think that was an issue. Then the car was standing still some day, and youre battery is down. It's like beeng a detective 🧐 hmm lets see.....? Tank You sir for a informative video 😎👍 Whishes from Sweden.
As an old tech focus on auto electronics, it’s allowed me to stay clean, make more $ and have a long career. Remember that power is just like water it wants to find the easiest way to ground.
This is the best draw video I’ve seen in 30 years … this guy is the truth. Very honest very informative.Any video this man makes is worth watching 💯 percent!!!
I literally said to myself when you opened the trunk. That those rusty amplifiers were the issue. Sometime a good visual can save a lot of time. Great video!!
I was a master technican for 47 yearrs and he did an awesome job explaining this. I retired before some of the sleep technology was such an issue. So I learned something new about allowing vehicle to sleep. Great job.
One of the easiest parasitic draw videos to follow. You took the time and trouble to explain how to properly find and isolate the problems. I now have the confidence to do this on my own. Thank you for a great video.👍👍
That’s gotta be one of your best educational videos! I think you did a great job keeping everything logical and in order, so it was really easy to follow along at home. With using a test light to show the current draw at the battery to free up your multimeter, I suggest that once you’ve established what the draw is with the meter, you can just put the battery terminal back on. That way, when you measure the millivolts across the fuses, you are getting the full voltage drop (which represents current flow). Any test light is going to add a significant resistance to the circuit which reduces the readings by an unknown amount, as demonstrated in your video. Of course if you have 2 meters, then measuring current at the battery the whole time is best because you always know that the parasitic draw is (or isn’t) still there. I picked up a couple of new techniques in this vid, so thanks heaps!!
Excellent method and a very logical and simple approach to finding the parasitic draw. I often follow that very same diagnostic approach, agree that on modern vehicles these kind of faults can be massively time consuming and frustrating but nothing is impossible if the approach is methodical and you stick to your diagnostic routine. The biggest piece of advice I can give after years of experience is keep it simple as many techs tend to over complicate things which often overlooks the obvious, and when fault finding is getting frustrating take a break walk away and take the time to think rather than go further down the rabbit hole.
I've been a pro car audio installer for 30 years. The radio is small like that because it does not have a CD player mechanism in it. These modern radios can be a lot smaller since they only have to use a radio and Bluetooth. Plus the amplifier technology has gotten even better to where the amplifiers internally on the radios can be even smaller. It's actually very useful when installing now because there is a lot more room behind the radios for the wiring. I can't tell you how many times I installed a double DIN size touch screen radio and had hardly any room for the wiring behind it. Great video by the way. You guys kill it every time. Even as a seasoned mechanic/ audio installer/ mechanical engineer, I still love watching your videos.
Hell, talk about how just a normal 1 din had no room behind them either, not just 2 din. I've had a few cars where the stereo floats out and inch or so.
Very good diagnostic approach. Very good video. One thing I have noticed in new cars with remote FOB, is that you have to keep the FOB at least 25 feet away or remove the battery from the FOB to keep the car asleep. Or wrap it in aluminum foil and ground the foil to earth ground. Otherwise the car will wake up and you have to wait another 45 minutes to an hour for it to go to sleep again.
One of those faraday pouches like I bought from Temu for a few bucks would work well for that purpose; it really blocks out any RF from passing in and out. I have a keychain garage door opener that I keep in it to prevent accidentally opening the door, and it does the trick. Also blocks out the key fob transponder quite well.
I’m watching this now, because I’m having the same problem. This will definetly be a huge help. But it’s winter here and I’m outside, poor me. Time to bite the bullet, thanks for the great info, it’s been a big help. Have a nice Christmas.
we need a part 2 where you demonstrate how to check a module that is staying awake and causing the draw but not because the module itself is bad but because it is receiving a "wake up" signal from some other compnent or being kept alive by some external source.
I really like this channel. You are easily one of the ELITE wizards when it comes to diagnostics! I might be wrong, But the camera guy is your son? He must be a great mechanic in his own right! I wonder why he doesn't speak and bounce things off from? It would be cool to hear the banter back and forth!
Trust your gut. You said you're surprised both amplifiers are bad, probably because they aren't. Something commands them to power on, maybe the OE radio did and whoever put in the aftermarket one has wired something wrong not allowing them to turn off. Great video BTW and that radio is a pretty common thing they commonly call a mechless tuner, as they have no CD or other mechanical unit in them.
Excellent video. Thanks for ALL of the details. Too often, people gloss over things and leave things out. I also appreciate that pros struggle with connectors. I can't tell you how many times I work on a car or brand I don't have much experience with and getting connectors loose slows me down more than anything else.
Great Diag video. I saw those rusty amps at the 5:17 mark, and said "There's your problem". Continued to watch the rest of the video, and you confirmed my suspicion. Excellent details here. Thank You!
Just watched the video and it was very informative. I have a 2015 buick encore with a draw. I feel really confident about chasing the draw down after watching this. Thank you for the video.
Great video! As an auto technician I love when these type of issues come into the shop. Some of them aren’t so easy but it’s so satisfying when you figure out what the draw is.
Not a mechanic or electrician but the insight of how you guys think, and problem solve in general is so helpful. Thanks for the videos and all the knowledge you are sharing.
Am Timothy from Zambia i really like your video. Am a mechanic but am not a electrician and even if am not a electrician i have learned something. Thanks my God bless you have a great day.
Once I had a cigarette lighter that had corrosion or stuff in it that caused my draw. Another time I had plugged in a dongle type OBD2 reader that drew ~ 200ma and it would kill my battery in about 4 days of not running the car. You just taught me about the voltage across the fuse thing, that I didn't know. I use a clamp meter mostly.
That is really great!! Always room for more tools in my box like aeswave. I use to take old standard blown fuse remove the plastic top edges of the plastic to expose the upper metal ends. Then I would solder wires to the metal ends and use either different ends to adapt different ends for testing with a meter or probe, or different size amp CBC stud breakers to check electrical system. What is really Ironic my son called the same day of this video and said his battery kept on going dead on his 2005 Ford Expedition.I explained to him how to check for a parasitic draw and how to do it He found 2 parasitic draws. One was the rear wiper motor switch, and the instrument panel.
I'm currently trying to locate a parasitic draw on a 2014 Land Rover Defender Puma. It flattens the battery over a couple of days when not driven. This video is unbelievably informative and very well presented. I was going to have an auto electrician sort it, however I am going to give it a go myself. Thank you.
Good morning sir I have watched many great techs on here , but I personally have to say that you are the pinnacle of instructors sir , I now don't waste my time on any other sites for solid professional information like yours , I love your channel and from the heart Thank You for your time and efforts to help us guys out here , God bless you and your team and family, take care my new friend and again a heart felt Thank You
my first draw test was on a late model vw beetle that was a trip i was using All Data and one of the techs walked me thru the same way you did this one found radio and HVAC module both were drawing. those german wiring harness are fun. but got it fixed it had been to several shops no one could find it. thanks for sharing these videos help remind us when we have long times between draws thanks so much wish i was younger and could work at a shop like you have where quality matters. have only worked at 2 shops that cared one of them is mine
It’s so important to understand how the system is supposed to work before attempting to diagnose. This was a great video of common sense diagnostics. I use an amp hound or scope to do this but this was a great lesson I’m basic diag with little tooling. Awesome job
Thanks for this video and all your videos. I enjoy thorough repair and diagnostic videos, especially DIY for your vehicle. Helps me learn to fix my car and even if I take it to a dealer I have a better understanding. I especially like the parasitic draw test video. I learned how to use my multi meter but not comfortable with all functions. Between this channel, Dave's auto center, Car Wizard, care care nut, Chris fix, 1 A auto, scotty Kilmer, etc. It really helps
I am an elevator mechanic by training. I love how you use the meter to prove your issues. So many young technicians want to use their scan tools to find the problems, but the meter is your friend. Learn what it is telling you.
Excellent video. I didn't realize those fuse charts existed. They are worth their weight in gold. I'm an EE who helps out friends and family and found the most frustrating part is finding schematics since most of us could never justify an Alldata subscription.
Great video. Loved where you showed the spurious readings with the test light. It's acting as a bad ground with higher resistance so makes sense. Shows the importance of not getting hyper focused on the little things
Great video ... but when you opened the trunk in the beginning I saw all the corrosion on those amplifiers/harnesses ... that why I always do a quick visual ... especially on an old convertible .... great systematic diagnosis
This is a great video. I'm a tech at a Subaru dealership and SOA has been putting out training videos for refreshers on voltage drop. The most recent video showed how to do the same method of testing for parasitic draw that you show here!
i know you were keeping this low-tech but man does a thermal imager help out see what is on. Point it at fuse boxes and modules and see what has power flowing thru it. game changer
That would be only a 90 microwatt power dissipation, which would be undetectable with an IR imager. That might be good for really gross power draws, but not for anything more subtle like this.
@dubmob151 Some thermal imagers are ridiculously sensitive. Sometimes, you can see pretty small currents with them. The one I have can see where you briefly touched a wall for minutes afterwards...
Absolutely hilarious! " saying there's gotta be more of the radio somewhere " Absolutely hilarious! They started making these radios short like that w no cd player and have bluetooth and sd card reader, so it saves them cost making them short like that but just hilarious your reaction! awesome video very helpful!
When you first opened the trunk, I noticed those corroded looking amps (the one on the right anyway, and thought it was aftermarket at first) and thought "that might be the issue right there". Though, I do want to add that us average joes aren't going to have access to alldata... Though, this video was extremely informative, so thank you!
I got to say nice job hunting down the problem. One thing I always did with the tester fuse is to put a 5 amp inline fuse before the tester just as a preventative measure. Much easier to replace than the tester fuse.
Exceptional video ! Just a few observations. 1. The resistance thru the voltohm meter when using the amps scale must be very low, much lower than the auto test light. I measured my 3 watt auto test light and the resistance varies from cold to hot. The resistance is only about 4 ohms cold, but near 50 ohms with a glowing hot bulb. So your resistance with that dim bulb will be somewhere in between. This test light is just adding another resistor to the existing bad circuit. 2. If you measure and record the current draw using the voltmeter, like you did, and then add the test light in series with the voltmeter still attached, you will then get a new parasitic draw in amps. The difference will tell you how much the test light made the current change. 3. In theory if you put 5 test lights together in series you could really drop the parasitic draw !
Parasitic draw issues are challenging but fun at the same time. Please make more vids like this. Thank you for the awesome and educational entertainment! 😊 👍
What a great video. Thanks! I laughed as I watched you struggle trying to release the connectors on the amps ... I always figure you pros had magic ways to get those free and that only amateurs like me struggled.
The charts you had are from power probe. They have the best charts out of everyone who has put out charts for the various fuse sizes and types. Awsome stuff!
I'm not a pro audio installer but I have installed my own Crutchfield car audio upgrades "back in the day" (the name "Crutchfield" should tell you how far "back in the day" that was). So as soon as I saw rust on both amps in a trunk (in a convertible, of course - but then the owner also never has the top up), I would have started the diagnostic testing on that fused circuit. Even though it might not have been a corrosion/wiring cause at both amps (which would be pretty high odds against), that visual observation of corrosion on an electrical component kind of shouted "Start here!" to me. Great detailed methodical tutorial, still.
Very helpful video. I will need try this technique on my Hummer H3. I have been told to look for an inline OnStar fuse, I am having trouble locating it.
Great video guys!!! I bought my own Fluke 88V kit in the mid-2000s when I was apprenticing at the Honda dealership and I absolutely love it and use it often!!
great video for sure, one trick when changing out connections on the battery is to do it in parallel so it doesn't disconnect. instead of removing the meter and installing the test lamp. install the test lamp, then remove the meter. no disconnect then. that radio just doesn't have an amp in it, it doesn't take much space to have a non-cd head unit that does everything off antenna and bluetooth
Excellent explanations, Outstanding video, Great techniques. After market radio installers sometimes dont hire the best people and the signal to those amps are connected wrong. The only thing I would say is fast forward through the .. nope not that fuse, nope not that one ... Otherwise .. What an Awesome video .. Keep up the great work!
Both Amps gone bad? Could be I guess. I might suspect that the aftermarket radio installation might be keeping the amps active even when the radio is off. I worked as a Ford tech for years and when an electrical issue appeared, first place I'd look was any aftermarket installations. Great video!
As soon as you opened that trunk I knew it was those crusty amps lol. We get quite a few chewed up wires from mice here and sometimes finding the damage is a nightmare. Great video as always. Thank you for sharing.
If i where you i would make sure the remote circuit for the amps are not connected to 12 volt constant leaving the amps on all the time.... great video thanks
Exactly the problem! He's not a car audio guy so he doesn't know but I bet he figured it out after purchasing 2 new amps and still had the problem....LOL
Great Video, my dad had a draw on a 2011 Ford Fusion shop never figured it out. We figured out ourselves that the radio was coming on overnight and killing the battery. By making sure that the radio was turned off before turning car the ignition off problem went away. Factory Radio.
Great video. As an industrial electronics technician, I didn't even knew there was those voltage drop charts for automotive fuses. Great thing to know ! About the amplifier problem, both having about the same parasitic current draw, I assume they are not "bad", very improbable they went "bad" by exactly the same amount of parasitic current. I assume they are powered up all time by an incorrectly wired "wake-up" signal. Probably the aftermarket radio wake-up signal was incorrectly wired or not compatible. Thank you for this instructive video !
Yes, I have seen several of those small aftermarket chassis radios. Most of the circuitry is on integrated circuits and surface mounted components which enables the use of a small chassis.. The drivers for the speakers have built in heat sinks in them so they don't need an additional heatsink attached to the chassis. They can power the tweeters, midrange speakers and the woofers. There are usually separate heat sink driver integrated chips for the woofers. The OEM radio provides a pre amp signal to the sub woofer amplifiers which is a low power signal. The sub woofer amps takes this low power signal and increases the power to drive the sub woofers. What may have happened, is when this aftermarket radio was installed it was sending a high power signal to the input of the sub woofer amps. The aftermarket radio itself can drive the woofers on its own, only not as powerful. Depending on how robust the inputs in the sub woofer amps are, it may have taken them out quickly, or over time as it overheated the sub woofer inputs. This may be the reason why both of the subwoofer amps went bad. On some of these small aftermarket radios they have a pre amp output on the back which can be used to send the low power signal to the sub woofer amps. Of course judging by the rust around those sub woofer amps water may have gotten into them and taken them out also. Very good video.
Great video, have you used the ET74 Amp hound from Mac tools? It does the same thing as your meter in mv's, but it has an audible tone for fuse boxes where you can't see your meter.
On some newer European vehicles It can take anywhere from 90 minutes to several hours for the vehicle to go to sleep and sometimes even have to shut off the proximity sensor and keep the key over 20 ft away in order for it to go to sleep and not wake up.
Props where props are due. 25 year ASE master here. This is one of the best draw diagnosis videos I've ever seen.
Really?
Folks, this is why a $200+ diagnoses fee is justified. As a whole, we in this industry do not charge enough for diagnoses efforts, which always baffles me because it is the most critical part of the repair. Also, we don't train enough. This is a great instructional video and for those that are a bit green, start with a good understanding of Ohm's Law. You Sir, have earned a follow. Cheers
Sat through entire video, this was an awesome lesson in troubleshooting, following diagrams, and perseverance. He stayed focused until the job was completed. I salute you Sir! Thank you for teaching a 62 year old machinist/mechanic the right was to trace out an auto electrical issue. 🔧💯💯💯💯💯💯
Radio guy here. I was screaming at my screen but you probably did not hear me. Great channel by the way.Thanks for doing this stuff. Yes radios can be very thin now that there is no disc drive in most of them. Just installed one just like that the other day in a Grand am. I also saw the subwoofer amps early in the video when you were looking in the trunk.Been there done that. also noticed they had been wet and were rusting. i would have suspected them them at first sight. Common problem in boat stereos as well. Even with "marine" equipment.Great video anyway that steps through the process from beginning to end and is really not that time consuming if a person understands the system and how to use the tools
I'm not a radio guy but when he opened the trunk, I also noticed the amps and had a strong feeling that could be the problem. When he was going through the wiring diagrams and came to the one showing the amps on the circuit, I was thinking to myself, look in the trunk at those corroded amps. But showing the whole process is great, as you stated.
Still gotta have a supply of power coming from ignition or radio harness but that's from the ignition also. Unless they wired up the plug wrong and to the constant voltage wire for the clock or security. 2 amps bad no way. Even so these if I recall would lose the speakers once the amps were toast. More of a GM guy but you get my point.
Pulling the breakers under the dash would have revealed the problem without using the diagrams and been much quicker.
@@jamescherney5874 You mean fuses?
@@troypattison8044 Yeah
Well this old dog learned a new trick reading across the fuse in that manner then looking up the chart that was reasonably accurate. Thank you for posting this
It's the only way to do it in my book. Pulling fuses is extinct. When I worked at VW (circa 2002-2010) we were taught to read fuses this way. Even back then, they didn't want us pulling fuses because it could wake up the car.
Agree completely! I had no idea those charts even existed. Theoretically, fuses shouldn't drop any voltage, but since they do have some real-world resistance, you can read the drop and figure out the current: V = I * R.
Love it! You earn every penny for your diagnostic time. Customers don’t appreciate what it takes to logically and correctly locate and repair electrical issues. I thoroughly appreciate the lesson, thank you.
@ronaldhebner2146 Well, you charge for what you know, not for what you do.
I remember buying my first Fluke 88 about 35 + years ago at $400 Again another great video, I just passed 40 years as a master tech but I still learn from a few TH-camrs. Thank you 😎
I bought mine in 1989/90. replaced one fuse and maybe 7 batteries and it finally died dead 6 months ago. sent it to fluke...short story...they sold me a replacement for $366.00 total. so saved a couple of bucks.
I ,am in a very similar boat as you.
I got my first Fluke with "UTI" logo on it back in 1989, great meter. Wish I still had it.
The car industry needs more master mechanics like you. 👍
Crazy! When I saw the wiring diagram, my mind instantly shot to the amplifiers causing it before you even got to testing the dash fuse panel. I had a similar situation in a Pontiac Vibe I used to own that did this and it turned out that a previous owner spliced the remote feed for the factory amp to the constant hot for memory. I used this same process to find the issue, but resorted to pulling fuses instead as I didn’t have a second multimeter nor did I have a test light available at the time. In the end, I had to wire a completely new harness connector to the vehicle to get it back to factory and then use an adapter for the radio to plug into that. Worked perfectly and no more draw! Loved that car - wish I still had it!
Yep! I was wondering if the amplifiers aren't bad, but instead aren't hooked up to switched power. That would leave them turned on all the time... drawing power. The other thing that points to a problem in wiring is both amps are pulling equal power. If they were both bad, I wouldn't expect them to have failed the exact same way so they are both pulling the same amount of power. The radio just sitting loose in the dash does not indicate a professional install. I would check the wires at the connector on the radio. One of those should provide a power signal to turn on the amps only when the radio is on.
@@zenpistoler0I would love to hear the reason those amps aren't on switched power! A reason to leave those constantly powered isn't obvious.
Besides being a great mechanic, He is so patient. Great teacher. He knows right where to go to find problems.
I have been retired for 20 years from automotive repair. This video brings back the same feeling and frustration locating draws this tech exhibit.
How do you eat an elephant…one bite at a time. This was an excellent example of using a logical process to tackle a ghostly problem. No panic…. Just results and no getting lost in the weeds. Thank you!
That is one of the first lessons I taught my kids when they were young. 1 bite at a time!
The 12 years that I have been in this automotive field, I never used the test light for a draw test. Glad I watched and learned something new. Thank you for the helpful videos as always.
I’m just a diy-er but I really enjoy the no BS educational content you, Eric O @ South Main Auto, and Ivan @ Pine Hollow Diag provide at no cost.
You're forgetting arguably the originator and the best in that category. ScannerDanner no hate on the gentlemen you mentioned they're all phenomenal at what they do. Hopefully you're already following ScannerDanner.
@@jeffcompton6937 I know of him but never watched.. I’ll check him out and hopefully his content is easily digestible like these guys.
You’ll enjoy. All of them mentioned are great guys and have brought a lot to the table for this industry!
Yup. Scanner Danner's the man when it comes to electrical issues.
I don't usually comment but you sir save me a lot of headache, I've watched a lot of videos how to do parasitic drain but none of them make it more clear than you. You got my thump up and sub...
Hi, if you look at a schematic for the amplifiers, I notice there's no keyed ignition voltage. It seems the amplifiers must be switched off either by lack of audio input from the speaker wires, or with the "audio mute" wire on pin 2 of each amp. I'll bet there's either an aftermarket radio interface module (the rest of the radio you referred to) to blame, or the aftermarket radio isn’t properly powering down the amps when the key is off. keeping both amps powered up all the time.
Exactly what I was thinking. Something needs to control those amps. It would also be strange to me that both amps failed identically (not impossible though). And, I ALWAYS suspect an aftermarket install. It’s crazy what people do sometimes. And in this case there may be some sort of incompatibility due to the way the amps power down. The radio component in the dash is just a head unit. Find the radio module and I’m pretty sure you’ll discover it’s the issue due to the way it’s wired or some other failure.
It's not the aftermarket radio....they do have a turn on wire for the amplifiers.
@@melissathompson7229 what schematic are you using? Mine shows all power feeds hot at all times (on the factory amps). The turn on wire from the aftermarket radio wouldn't be used.
Possibly the person that installed the stereo used a power wire instead of the remote power wire.
If they don’t have a power light on them it’d be hard to tell they were always on. I just don’t believe both amps are bad but they probably both got wet so possibly??? I noticed the amps immediately when you triggered the truck latch and assumed y’all already diagnosed it before shooting the video
I,m not a car mekaniks, but I would have askt the car owner - Have you installed anything, or are anything done to the car recently - 🤔 ? - maby someone cangech an amp or something, and maby you then drive, you do not think that was an issue. Then the car was standing still some day, and youre battery is down. It's like beeng a detective
🧐 hmm lets see.....?
Tank You sir for a informative video 😎👍
Whishes from Sweden.
Thank you for taking your time to explain these diags. As a new tech, I cannot get enough of these! Thank you!
As an old tech focus on auto electronics, it’s allowed me to stay clean, make more $ and have a long career. Remember that power is just like water it wants to find the easiest way to ground.
@@johnrpizzaguy thanks man!! That’s a good analogy. I like that!
@@johnrpizzaguygreat analogy
The path of least resistance!
@@shannonharris exactly
Sherwood is the man. He uses good logic and his vast experience to solve hard problems. I always enjoy watching any of his videos.
best channel on the web for stuff like this. You can tell you are knowledgeable, straight forward and honest. Good mechanics!!!!
This is the best draw video I’ve seen in 30 years … this guy is the truth. Very honest very informative.Any video this man makes is worth watching 💯 percent!!!
I literally said to myself when you opened the trunk. That those rusty amplifiers were the issue. Sometime a good visual can save a lot of time. Great video!!
I am glad I am not the only one that fights with releasing connectors!
Yes on older cars they get very hard to unlatch !!
This is a process I've been through many many times. I wish I had this video to learn from 25 years ago.
You keep teaching us so much information about diagnosing problems on cars. The right way
76 years old , learned a few things here. GREAT video. Thanks guys.
I was a master technican for 47 yearrs and he did an awesome job explaining this. I retired before some of the sleep technology was such an issue. So I learned something new about allowing vehicle to sleep. Great job.
One of the easiest parasitic draw videos to follow. You took the time and trouble to explain how to properly find and isolate the problems. I now have the confidence to do this on my own. Thank you for a great video.👍👍
That’s gotta be one of your best educational videos! I think you did a great job keeping everything logical and in order, so it was really easy to follow along at home.
With using a test light to show the current draw at the battery to free up your multimeter, I suggest that once you’ve established what the draw is with the meter, you can just put the battery terminal back on. That way, when you measure the millivolts across the fuses, you are getting the full voltage drop (which represents current flow). Any test light is going to add a significant resistance to the circuit which reduces the readings by an unknown amount, as demonstrated in your video. Of course if you have 2 meters, then measuring current at the battery the whole time is best because you always know that the parasitic draw is (or isn’t) still there.
I picked up a couple of new techniques in this vid, so thanks heaps!!
Gonna have to watch this a few times. A lot of new information I know. Nothing about. Thanks for doing this 🙏
Excellent method and a very logical and simple approach to finding the parasitic draw. I often follow that very same diagnostic approach, agree that on modern vehicles these kind of faults can be massively time consuming and frustrating but nothing is impossible if the approach is methodical and you stick to your diagnostic routine. The biggest piece of advice I can give after years of experience is keep it simple as many techs tend to over complicate things which often overlooks the obvious, and when fault finding is getting frustrating take a break walk away and take the time to think rather than go further down the rabbit hole.
I've been a pro car audio installer for 30 years. The radio is small like that because it does not have a CD player mechanism in it. These modern radios can be a lot smaller since they only have to use a radio and Bluetooth. Plus the amplifier technology has gotten even better to where the amplifiers internally on the radios can be even smaller. It's actually very useful when installing now because there is a lot more room behind the radios for the wiring. I can't tell you how many times I installed a double DIN size touch screen radio and had hardly any room for the wiring behind it. Great video by the way. You guys kill it every time. Even as a seasoned mechanic/ audio installer/ mechanical engineer, I still love watching your videos.
I love these little head units. You can put them in just about anything and they are really affordable.
Hell, talk about how just a normal 1 din had no room behind them either, not just 2 din. I've had a few cars where the stereo floats out and inch or so.
Love that you guys are so close to 100K . You guys deserve all the praises youre receiving. We need to highlight our industry professionals.
Very good diagnostic approach. Very good video. One thing I have noticed in new cars with remote FOB, is that you have to keep the FOB at least 25 feet away or remove the battery from the FOB to keep the car asleep. Or wrap it in aluminum foil and ground the foil to earth ground. Otherwise the car will wake up and you have to wait another 45 minutes to an hour for it to go to sleep again.
One of those faraday pouches like I bought from Temu for a few bucks would work well for that purpose; it really blocks out any RF from passing in and out.
I have a keychain garage door opener that I keep in it to prevent accidentally opening the door, and it does the trick. Also blocks out the key fob transponder quite well.
I’m watching this now, because I’m having the same problem. This will definetly be a huge help. But it’s winter here and I’m outside, poor me. Time to bite the bullet, thanks for the great info, it’s been a big help. Have a nice Christmas.
we need a part 2 where you demonstrate how to check a module that is staying awake and causing the draw but not because the module itself is bad but because it is receiving a "wake up" signal from some other compnent or being kept alive by some external source.
That’s a great idea for a follow up video. We have discussed making this multiple parts. 👍
Insulation with jump leads. I have done this with B+, GND, and BUS. If no parasitic, or module shuts down, its external.
I really like this channel. You are easily one of the ELITE wizards when it comes to diagnostics!
I might be wrong, But the camera guy is your son?
He must be a great mechanic in his own right!
I wonder why he doesn't speak and bounce things off from? It would be cool to hear the banter back and forth!
Great video. I like how the dog was "checking" under the car for any issues. ;)
Good mechanics are very hard to find, thank you for video.
Trust your gut. You said you're surprised both amplifiers are bad, probably because they aren't. Something commands them to power on, maybe the OE radio did and whoever put in the aftermarket one has wired something wrong not allowing them to turn off. Great video BTW and that radio is a pretty common thing they commonly call a mechless tuner, as they have no CD or other mechanical unit in them.
That's my thought too. This diag is about 90% complete. 😂
Excellent video. Thanks for ALL of the details. Too often, people gloss over things and leave things out. I also appreciate that pros struggle with connectors. I can't tell you how many times I work on a car or brand I don't have much experience with and getting connectors loose slows me down more than anything else.
Great Diag video. I saw those rusty amps at the 5:17 mark, and said "There's your problem". Continued to watch the rest of the video, and you confirmed my suspicion. Excellent details here. Thank You!
Great video - because it was a real problem showing the real life stuff needed sometimes to find a parasitic draw - not some glossy easy fix.
Just watched the video and it was very informative. I have a 2015 buick encore with a draw. I feel really confident about chasing the draw down after watching this. Thank you for the video.
Excellent video! I like that this was not sugar coated as being simple, even down to unplugging connectors. Great job!
Thank you for the clear and easy understanding explaining. agree that this is the best draw diagnosis videos I have seen.
Great video!
As an auto technician I love when these type of issues come into the shop. Some of them aren’t so easy but it’s so satisfying when you figure out what the draw is.
Not a mechanic or electrician but the insight of how you guys think, and problem solve in general is so helpful. Thanks for the videos and all the knowledge you are sharing.
Am Timothy from Zambia i really like your video. Am a mechanic but am not a electrician and even if am not a electrician i have learned something. Thanks my God bless you have a great day.
Once I had a cigarette lighter that had corrosion or stuff in it that caused my draw. Another time I had plugged in a dongle type OBD2 reader that drew ~ 200ma and it would kill my battery in about 4 days of not running the car. You just taught me about the voltage across the fuse thing, that I didn't know. I use a clamp meter mostly.
That is really great!! Always room for more tools in my box like aeswave. I use to take old standard blown fuse remove the plastic top edges of the plastic to expose the upper metal ends. Then I would solder wires to the metal ends and use either different ends to adapt different ends for testing with a meter or probe, or different size amp CBC stud breakers to check electrical system. What is really Ironic my son called the same day of this video and said his battery kept on going dead on his 2005 Ford Expedition.I explained to him how to check for a parasitic draw and how to do it He found 2 parasitic draws. One was the rear wiper motor switch, and the instrument panel.
I'm currently trying to locate a parasitic draw on a 2014 Land Rover Defender Puma. It flattens the battery over a couple of days when not driven. This video is unbelievably informative and very well presented. I was going to have an auto electrician sort it, however I am going to give it a go myself. Thank you.
Good morning sir I have watched many great techs on here , but I personally have to say that you are the pinnacle of instructors sir , I now don't waste my time on any other sites for solid professional information like yours , I love your channel and from the heart Thank You for your time and efforts to help us guys out here , God bless you and your team and family, take care my new friend and again a heart felt Thank You
Such an amazing way to narrow down the roots of the problem professional staff, I am kinda a DIY car diagnostic but I learned some new staff!
Great video. anyone starting out in trouble shooting electrical parasitics should watch this type of video.
my first draw test was on a late model vw beetle that was a trip i was using All Data and one of the techs walked me thru the same way you did this one found radio and HVAC module both were drawing. those german wiring harness are fun. but got it fixed it had been to several shops no one could find it. thanks for sharing these videos help remind us when we have long times between draws thanks so much wish i was younger and could work at a shop like you have where quality matters. have only worked at 2 shops that cared one of them is mine
It’s so important to understand how the system is supposed to work before attempting to diagnose. This was a great video of common sense diagnostics. I use an amp hound or scope to do this but this was a great lesson I’m basic diag with little tooling. Awesome job
Great video, as a multi-decade DIY guy, I've always avoided trying to find these electrical gremlins. Very cool to see how it's done.
It's always fixing other people's bad quality fixes.
Check added power equipment.
Think about big power use support?
Can that handle it
Thanks for this video and all your videos. I enjoy thorough repair and diagnostic videos, especially DIY for your vehicle. Helps me learn to fix my car and even if I take it to a dealer I have a better understanding. I especially like the parasitic draw test video. I learned how to use my multi meter but not comfortable with all functions. Between this channel, Dave's auto center, Car Wizard, care care nut, Chris fix, 1 A auto, scotty Kilmer, etc. It really helps
I am an elevator mechanic by training.
I love how you use the meter to prove your issues.
So many young technicians want to use their scan tools to find the problems, but the meter is your friend. Learn what it is telling you.
Excellent video. I didn't realize those fuse charts existed. They are worth their weight in gold. I'm an EE who helps out friends and family and found the most frustrating part is finding schematics since most of us could never justify an Alldata subscription.
P.S. That test light issue turned out to be a happy accident. Now people see how what you use to measure can affect the results.
Wow! Love this video, glued to it for whole video! More like this please! Thanks G
Great video. Loved where you showed the spurious readings with the test light. It's acting as a bad ground with higher resistance so makes sense. Shows the importance of not getting hyper focused on the little things
hands down best Ive seen on chasing a draw! Who is this guy! I think he could be GOD!
Great video ... but when you opened the trunk in the beginning I saw all the corrosion on those amplifiers/harnesses ... that why I always do a quick visual ... especially on an old convertible .... great systematic diagnosis
This is a great video. I'm a tech at a Subaru dealership and SOA has been putting out training videos for refreshers on voltage drop. The most recent video showed how to do the same method of testing for parasitic draw that you show here!
i know you were keeping this low-tech but man does a thermal imager help out see what is on. Point it at fuse boxes and modules and see what has power flowing thru it. game changer
That will be part of this series! Great point!
@@theroyaltyautoservice
Right on !
That would be only a 90 microwatt power dissipation, which would be undetectable with an IR imager.
That might be good for really gross power draws, but not for anything more subtle like this.
@@dubmob151 BS use it all the time for this. get a better thermal imager then
@dubmob151
Some thermal imagers are ridiculously sensitive.
Sometimes, you can see pretty small currents with them.
The one I have can see where you briefly touched a wall for minutes afterwards...
Absolutely hilarious! " saying there's gotta be more of the radio somewhere " Absolutely hilarious! They started making these radios short like that w no cd player and have bluetooth and sd card reader, so it saves them cost making them short like that but just hilarious your reaction! awesome video very helpful!
When you first opened the trunk, I noticed those corroded looking amps (the one on the right anyway, and thought it was aftermarket at first) and thought "that might be the issue right there".
Though, I do want to add that us average joes aren't going to have access to alldata... Though, this video was extremely informative, so thank you!
Great video I have been learning 50 plus years . Young folks are so lucky because of info available at hand!
I got to say nice job hunting down the problem. One thing I always did with the tester fuse is to put a 5 amp inline fuse before the tester just as a preventative measure. Much easier to replace than the tester fuse.
Exceptional video ! Just a few observations.
1. The resistance thru the voltohm meter when using the amps scale must be very low, much lower than the auto test light. I measured my 3 watt auto test light and the resistance varies from cold to hot. The resistance is only about 4 ohms cold, but near 50 ohms with a glowing hot bulb. So your resistance with that dim bulb will be somewhere in between. This test light is just adding another resistor to the existing bad circuit.
2. If you measure and record the current draw using the voltmeter, like you did, and then add the test light in series with the voltmeter still attached, you will then get a new parasitic draw in amps. The difference will tell you how much the test light made the current change.
3. In theory if you put 5 test lights together in series you could really drop the parasitic draw !
Love your videos, found you during your SEMA videos. Always great information well formatted.
Parasitic draw issues are challenging but fun at the same time. Please make more vids like this. Thank you for the awesome and educational entertainment! 😊 👍
Very good diagnose you make it simple to understand to fellow the step of diagnose thank you .
What a great video. Thanks! I laughed as I watched you struggle trying to release the connectors on the amps ... I always figure you pros had magic ways to get those free and that only amateurs like me struggled.
I've been working on my own vehicles since before i got my license and I learned a TON in this video- thanks!
The charts you had are from power probe. They have the best charts out of everyone who has put out charts for the various fuse sizes and types. Awsome stuff!
I'm not a pro audio installer but I have installed my own Crutchfield car audio upgrades "back in the day" (the name "Crutchfield" should tell you how far "back in the day" that was).
So as soon as I saw rust on both amps in a trunk (in a convertible, of course - but then the owner also never has the top up), I would have started the diagnostic testing on that fused circuit.
Even though it might not have been a corrosion/wiring cause at both amps (which would be pretty high odds against), that visual observation of corrosion on an electrical component kind of shouted "Start here!" to me.
Great detailed methodical tutorial, still.
Very helpful video. I will need try this technique on my Hummer H3. I have been told to look for an inline OnStar fuse, I am having trouble locating it.
Great video guys!!!
I bought my own Fluke 88V kit in the mid-2000s when I was apprenticing at the Honda dealership and I absolutely love it and use it often!!
Great video, been working on cars most of my life but learned something new today
One of you best videos. Real world diagnostic 👍🏽
Good job , I am currently chasing a wiring issue on a 2012 GMC crew cab that had an aftermarket steel that was removed before I purchased it.
great video for sure, one trick when changing out connections on the battery is to do it in parallel so it doesn't disconnect. instead of removing the meter and installing the test lamp. install the test lamp, then remove the meter. no disconnect then. that radio just doesn't have an amp in it, it doesn't take much space to have a non-cd head unit that does everything off antenna and bluetooth
Outstanding video Sherwood, thanks for taking some of the mystery out of electrical draws and how to fix them.
Amp hound tool makes parasitic draw troubleshooting much easier. A amp hound video would be great.
Excellent explanations, Outstanding video, Great techniques. After market radio installers sometimes dont hire the best people and the signal to those amps are connected wrong. The only thing I would say is fast forward through the .. nope not that fuse, nope not that one ... Otherwise .. What an Awesome video .. Keep up the great work!
Both Amps gone bad? Could be I guess.
I might suspect that the aftermarket radio installation might be keeping the amps active even when the radio is off.
I worked as a Ford tech for years and when an electrical issue appeared, first place I'd look was any aftermarket installations.
Great video!
As soon as you opened that trunk I knew it was those crusty amps lol. We get quite a few chewed up wires from mice here and sometimes finding the damage is a nightmare. Great video as always. Thank you for sharing.
Yup, LOL, I had the same reaction.
@RoyaltyAutoService6 Awesome!!
If i where you i would make sure the remote circuit for the amps are not connected to 12 volt constant leaving the amps on all the time.... great video thanks
Exactly the problem! He's not a car audio guy so he doesn't know but I bet he figured it out after purchasing 2 new amps and still had the problem....LOL
@ryantipps8226 after the customer purchased 2 new amps, rather..
I really appreciate the level of detail and comparisons you shown. Thank you
Great Video, my dad had a draw on a 2011 Ford Fusion shop never figured it out. We figured out ourselves that the radio was coming on overnight and killing the battery. By making sure that the radio was turned off before turning car the ignition off problem went away. Factory Radio.
Great video. As an industrial electronics technician, I didn't even knew there was those voltage drop charts for automotive fuses. Great thing to know ! About the amplifier problem, both having about the same parasitic current draw, I assume they are not "bad", very improbable they went "bad" by exactly the same amount of parasitic current. I assume they are powered up all time by an incorrectly wired "wake-up" signal. Probably the aftermarket radio wake-up signal was incorrectly wired or not compatible.
Thank you for this instructive video !
Thanks for this video, I've been trying to find a draw on my 2004 GMC 2500HD and this really helps
Yes, I have seen several of those small aftermarket chassis radios. Most of the circuitry is on integrated circuits and surface mounted components which enables the use of a small chassis.. The drivers for the speakers have built in heat sinks in them so they don't need an additional heatsink attached to the chassis. They can power the tweeters, midrange speakers and the woofers. There are usually separate heat sink driver integrated chips for the woofers. The OEM radio provides a pre amp signal to the sub woofer amplifiers which is a low power signal. The sub woofer amps takes this low power signal and increases the power to drive the sub woofers. What may have happened, is when this aftermarket radio was installed it was sending a high power signal to the input of the sub woofer amps. The aftermarket radio itself can drive the woofers on its own, only not as powerful. Depending on how robust the inputs in the sub woofer amps are, it may have taken them out quickly, or over time as it overheated the sub woofer inputs. This may be the reason why both of the subwoofer amps went bad. On some of these small aftermarket radios they have a pre amp output on the back which can be used to send the low power signal to the sub woofer amps. Of course judging by the rust around those sub woofer amps water may have gotten into them and taken them out also. Very good video.
Great video. One of the best I've seen n how to run down a power draw. Great work.
Great video, have you used the ET74 Amp hound from Mac tools? It does the same thing as your meter in mv's, but it has an audible tone for fuse boxes where you can't see your meter.
On some newer European vehicles It can take anywhere from 90 minutes to several hours for the vehicle to go to sleep and sometimes even have to shut off the proximity sensor and keep the key over 20 ft away in order for it to go to sleep and not wake up.
Always love your automotive insights! Keep up the amazing training videos
Thanks for making this video!, it was very informative and explained throughly from hands on to meter readings! 🤘🏻🤘🏻