Paul Kingsnorth: The End of Anthropology? | WAWTAR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2023
- John is delighted to welcome back Paul Kingsnorth for a fascinating look at some of the narratives the modern world is wrestling with. Evolution, transhumanism, and more.
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Website: www.paulkingsnorth.net/
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"Why Are We Talking About Rabbits?" takes you beyond rhetorical "rabbits" and the shallow approach that the media and most thinkers today take to examine contemporary cultural phenomena. Using theology, history, philosophy and years of travel in Mali, the Republic of Georgia, Haiti, and beyond, John Heers offers a refreshing take to how we got to where we are now. WAWTAR is all about talking about those heavy things… lightly.
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"At night, in our sleep, the pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our despair, against our will, comes Wisdom, through the awful grace of God." Aeschylus. This, in a nutshell, describes the process bringing people back to true religion.
wow. Perfect.
I have often thought of Paul’s writing as terrifyingly optimistic. I think that sums it up quite nicely. One must be courageous to see things “as they are”.
babe wake up, new Kingsnorth interview dropped
The sugar comments were interesting and reminded me of work done on drug addicts who do well in rehab only to relapse after they go back home. Basically the entire home environment (house, neighborhood, maybe the entire town) is full of unavoidable triggers, so the only way to stay off the drug is to move to an entirely new place and also never again associate with the people they used to do drugs with. Most people can't do that.
Thank you for sharing this. Having wandered for a few years, dabbling into Buddhism and humanism, I find it hilarious (truly) that what has brought me back into Christianity is not the promise of relief from suffering, but of suffering. I wonder if there's not an innate desire for suffering, especially if for a purpose, that is necessary for humans to flourish. As you both say, askesis is very much counter-cultural--perhaps the very thing we need / want in a sea of pleasure is meaningful suffering.
x
This was a phenomenal conversation
29:15 been thinking about this a lot lately
Another great podcast. I’m praying that the poke rules are lifted so we get to hang with Paul in November.
Me too! And you know what... I think we may be on to something.
@@heavythingslightly no doubt
Gnosticism, narcissism;
tomayto, tomahto…
Great show, brothers. Thank you, John, for your work. Newish to your channel.
I confess - I find your interviewing style quite endearing :)
May God grant you and your family with many years! 🙏
This was great, and I needed to hear this.
6:30 I think you're on to something with evolution having more power as narrative/mythos than as a scientific finding. For all intents and purposes it is used more as a founding myth then as a discovery with new technological advances. I suspect a critique from the narrative side would be more effective than from the scientific. I agree with Spengler when he said Natural Selection is too English.
Read wealth of nations and then try to say with a straight face that darwinism isn't adam smith applied to biology
Prickly... I think this is very insightful. And if I had a bit more talent, I think I would dig down on that narrative aspect as it is the haunting part of it all. The science? Meh... maybe. But the notion that the narrative of relativism was alive and well far in advance of Darwin's writings, and that in fact his own grandfather had already "written" the Darwinian thesis but without the science some 80 years earlier, well, that's a telling piece of info. Check out this podcast for a history of all of this th-cam.com/video/GDeHclpUgGY/w-d-xo.html
We are narratives inside narratives. Psalm 139 literally describes a human body as existing in writing before it was fashioned. And this in an English Bible published in 1611. Fast forward to 2023 . Oh look they want to edit the lines of code in our DNA. Nothing to see here I'ma go watch Oprah.
Excellent interview! In Canada they have installed litter boxes in the class room for children who identify as an animal. So grateful to be Orthodox!
Please don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
@@munchingsquirrel5067 I didn't read it on the internet, it actually happened at a school in Toronto, my friend received notice from the school her daughter attends.
I randomly picked up a book from my church library. It's titled Liberalism and Christianity by J. Gresham Machen. I find it surprising that it talks about a lot of the stuff that's going on today-spiritual/moral/cultural crises. What's crazy is that this book was written 100 years ago and mentions that the U.S. and its culture were pagan back then in its worldview...Either way, you think of it, it will make for an insightful and interesting read.
The same said, Hilaire belloc, Chesterton, Cs. lewis, ect its incredible how this people see things so many time ago...its the same thing....Nothing new under the sun....
This is a great point and it hits me often: The world we think is slipping away today HAS BEEN SLIPPING for a long, long time. Dostoevsky was telling us in the 1850's... And if what you are saying tells us something it tells us... stay awake! It's not what we think it is. It's that thing plus a lot more! I think often of how what we use now (say, social media or a leaf blower) was invented in a department of defense lab a long time ago. Yikes.
That’s because it’s the very same battle being fought by each new generation of people. A battle to stay human , connected to God, connected to fellow humans. Satan and the demons never stop trying to destroy us.
Yeah man… that serpent and that apple it’s happening all the time. But so, mercifully, is the Light flooding in - people are being born again and seeing the Truth…
Great talk y’all, don’t know how you popped on my feed but glad y’all did. Subscribed
Much love to you Porch Time. And also, great internet handle. So good...
Man I feel your example, at the KP table. And I am glad it worked out at the end. So, it seems, community and patience is key factor when it comes to tackling narcissistic tendencies. You don't look in the mirror if people are around, maybe some do I don't know, but it seems good company wins out.
And the toast to the dead ones is interesting? This is just me, but seems to be reviving the old, with new. Our job isn't to condemn the past, but to renew it, picking Adam not kicking Adam.
In your kp example, if they attacked the person, the reunion would have been in geopardy but, a little bit of space, is all what was new needed for new possibility to emerge. Maybe, and this is my belief, the person weren't given direction to begin with, and in that case the only way is inwards(self), and we have a culture which affirms that. So, I am so glad, that your buddy Tamada kept himself.
PS: Is the Georgian offer still on the table? Seems one very broke, and adventure longing lad might benefit, from such an endeavor. Nakhvamdis.
I think a conversation with Seraphim Hamilton would be interesting on the topic of evolution.
On it!
@@heavythingslightly also Fr Joseph Gleason about the book on evolution and the Christian he is translating from Russian.
Hi, great discussion! As far as "evolution" (depending on what is meant by that term), try looking at Michael Levin's work. He is asking some of the best actual scientific questions out there and I think you might get excited about real science again. He says right off the bat that he doesn't care about the question of evolution or intelligent design - as a bio-engineer he is just trying to find out how stuff works. Having said that, his ideas sound an awful lot like a universal, cosmic theosis (I think I understand that correctly).
His work basically proved experimentally that DNA is not the agent that causes change - bioelectricity changes things with zero change in genetics; he also proved that memory is not stored in the brain (experimentally in flatworms) and by pointing out that monarch butterflies "remember" their migration patterns from generation to generation, but their brains literally liquify during metamorphosis so how does that track "materially"? It feels like his questions - done at a university for all the world to see and replicate - have thrown a giant monkey wrench into what has been dogmatically "known" for decades at least.
I have had real problems with the standard Darwinistic or neo Darwinistic narrative since the 1980s and I read the actual scientific papers to see where they take something real and then just run into unrealistic territory with it (it happens ALL the time so I hear where you are coming from) Dr. James Tour is a chemist who is pointing those things out as well, but Mike Levin's work is all REALLY cool stuff - and if God wanted to create the world that way I'm fine with that! (Duh) :)
46:45 yes, this is exactly what that is. The spirit is completely the same.
My ideas about myself, per se, and my self identity to those ideas is what defines who I am.
It’s the elevation of the Egoic intellect to God.
Actual anthropology is way ahead of you. Pick up Vivieros de Castro, Phillipe Descola, Eduardo Kohn, Bruno Latour, Tim Ingold, pretty much anything written in the last 30 years, and you won't just find anthropology, but philosophy which blows anything being done in academic philosophy departments out of the water. Anthropology is probably the most advanced field of human thought at the moment.
Occult Science by Rudolf Steiner gives great insight to how it has all evolved.
"I heard the soul unfolds, in the chamber of its longing/And the bitter liquor sweetens, in the amber cup..."
I would like to see more books written on Rene Guenon, the traditionalist author which Kingsnorth mentions. Guenon's writing is hard to read and it would be great to see more people distill the essence of what he wrote.
dude was a raging fascist though, and many of his writings were used in building fascists ideologies
now, im writing this to you, knowingly that you might as well know that, and you are just leaving a dog whistle/troll/bait comment, and i find it funny that "dying of western culture" and revival of christianity and solutions for it are with fascists authors and fascist rethoric of keeping the nation "pure"
@@Bleilock1 Marx’s criticism on capitalism had valid points, however that doesn’t approve the 100 million so deaths caused by Marxism. Heidegger was a Nazi at some point but he dropped out from the party as he realized the movement wasn’t what he initially though it was going to be (anti modern). It is said that Guenon caused, in part, the Islamization of France. Would I not try to understand his point of view because of that? No, because that would be childish. That’s life, at least traditionalists don’t pretend to be perfect, contrary to modernists who think every baby is a tabula rasa who can be designed to perfection. If you think that way I propose that you go live in Brazilia, the planned city designed from the top down who nobody visits (unless you are a brainwashed architect student who worships Le Corbusier).
@@marcoaslan so what you are saying is
Its okay to believe in one genocidal maniac because there is other even worse genocidal maniac?
You are basically saying "my psychopath is better"
Lol
@@Bleilock1 I see that the Cathy Newman zeitgeist is within you. “So what you are saying is…”. Well, you are signaling that you are far off gone into la la land of gaslighting and reality inversion that there is little I can say here that would enlighten you to see a whole different vista… other than that I hope you come out from the other side mentally stable. I genuinely hope you get better.
@@marcoaslan and biggest irony of all is
You are the one who brought psychopath marx in the convo, and than you claim im stuck in cathy newmam zeitgeist...bro you cant see anything else but her zeitgheist
Bro we left her like more than 4 years ago now, havent heard of her for a long time now... are you alright my man?
You are literally the classic example of delusional ideologue, projecing that other people are stuck
When you are so firmly stuck in ideology
Hahahahahahahaha
The words searching for meaning, or what is consciousness, turns to the language of religion. We simply don't have the words.
it's always seemed rather strange to me @Peekay72 that creating a creator somehow gives meaning to life and everything. So that without a creator everything is deemed a meaningless soup, but with a creator it is all so meaningful. I can see the 'power' and allure in the stories, but can't see the meaning.
The western culture, at least, is in a crises of meaning. Group dialect is a powerful tool, leading to insight to a point of enlightenment, of wisdom. Is this a religion without being a religion?
Don't let your brother Heers you dissing the marital fast...his little whiskers are twitching just thinking about it.
I’m a true believer in the marital fast , full stop!
@@johnheers6220 Full stop! nice one. I hope you get to interview more people from more dimensions of American Orthodoxy or more like, paradoxy like you were talking about. That could be really beneficial. It might be interesting to hear your brother in broader conversation with people as earnest and well sourced as himself who've come to different conclusions.
@@DouglasHorch Super duper agree brother
@@DouglasHorch The conversation won't happen because the Fordhamites want to conform the Church to the world and are only interested in converting people to that cause. They are not interested in debating or talking to people that they not only can't change but who will point out inconvenient truths regarding what the Church believes and teaches.
Hi John, are you familiar with Stephen C. Meyer's work? I think he makes a compelling case for "theistic science" and the difficulty of evolutionary mechanisms by themselves to explain the overcoming of combinatorially explosive biological information problems--like the origin of functional information in RNA & DNA. I don't think you need to throw out the evolutionary "baby" with the nihilistic "bathwater."
I do know him Pierce, and would love to have him on to talk about this very idea. The question about the bathwater is at the core of my restlessness I think. There is a ethos and a culture to the conclusion being made by "science" that is becoming harder and harder to accept, to believe. And it's because the bathwater of it all is too dirty. The context of the scientific revolution makes me suspicious. For better or worse. And your excellent comment on the difficiulty of evolutionary mechanisms is the fire starter for a deeper dive that for me... well, it leaves me throwing baby out and bathwater. But I don't WANT TO. But I've concluded that my reticence to throw out evolution, like all the way, is mostly cowardice for how I will be known in our culture. I fear I'll then be that dude who believes in Jesus riding a dinosaur. But the evolution narrative as an explanation of our existence, that narrative seems, to me at least, like a scientist riding on a dinosaur... utterly absurd. You see my problem. The extremes seem to be all we have. And for me the evolution narrative is now an extreme. I can't stay there and I don't know what else there is... Thanks for suffering this comment!
@@heavythingslightly I sure hope you get Meyer on here! I'm sure it would be a great discussion.
@@heavythingslightly , please excuse me injecting into your conversation but I just hope you see this. Try looking at Michael Levin's work. He is asking some of the best actual scientific questions out there and I think you might get excited about real science again. He says right off the bat that he doesn't care about the question of evolution or intelligent design - as a bio-engineer he is just trying to find out how stuff works. Having said that, his ideas sound an awful lot like a universal, cosmic theosis (I think I understand that correctly).
His work basically proved experimentally that DNA is not the agent that causes change - bioelectricity changes things with zero change in genetics; he also proved that memory is not stored in the brain (experimentally in flatworms) and by pointing out that monarch butterflies "remember" their migration patterns from generation to generation, but their brains literally liquify during metamorphosis so how does that track "materially"? It feels like his questions - done at a university for all the world to see and replicate = have thrown a giant monkey wrench into what has been dogmatically "known" for decades at least.
I have had real problems with the standard Darwinistic or neo Darwinistic narrative since the 1980s and I read the actual scientific papers to see where they take something real and then just run into unrealistic territory with it (it happens ALL the time so I hear where you are coming from) Dr. James Tour is a chemist who is pointing those things out as well, but Mike Levin's work is all REALLY cool stuff - and if God wanted to create the world that way I'm fine with that! (Duh) :)
@Pierce Smith , please excuse the intrusion - I hope this interests you too!
Please read Stephen a Meyer. “Return of the God Hypothesis”.
Creator "sits" outside of the material world. Time and energy are "its" resources which it used to bring everything into existence. It is also the source of human conscience which they can choose to grow or silence.
We did not invite science and stop witchcraft, rather due to the christian revelation we were freed from myth. Being freed from myth we moved on from witchcraft to science. However we still crave certainty, and we turn science into myth.
34:40 I LIVE SURROUNDED BY FAT?! How dare you body shame me?! Chauvinist.
Read Stephen Meyer “Return of the God Hypothesis.”
Just that you guys could say…”the atheist narrative…” made me feel relieved! It’s just a narrative and a sad one. Like we are PAST that! Thank God. The World has been Re enchanted…
Prof. Stephen Meyer proves that information in the DNA proves intelligence behind it. Read his books.
Note to self: watch from 29 mins
"The slow and careful formation of the New Group of
World Servers is indicative of the crisis
. They are over
seeing
or ushering in the New Age and are present at the
birth pangs of the new civilisation and the coming
into
manifestation of a new race, a new culture and a new world
outlook
." any idea who wrote this and it's relevance to today and those in power? you should.
Paul needs to take a closer look at evolution and old earth evidence in light of his Christianity.
Still troubled by the table conflict? Both are pawns in someone else’s political war games, but one has received an honorable soldiers burial, the other still lives and needs an invitation to the true table, the real table of body and blood where no one dies.
Let the dead bury their own dead. The Master calleth, come and dine…..
"the other still lives and needs an invitation to the true table"... damn Steph. So good. In that sense, one has already made his toast, the other awaits a full reckoning, a true entree... dang. I'm telling you that moment at our table just won't leave me.
@@heavythingslightly You and me both brother, what won't leave us about that is a part of the tension that comes with living in the already and not yet.
Peace be with you.
Why do they have to coerce others to believe in their fantasy? Where is the value in that?
I'm not entirely certain which part you might consider the fantasy in your question here, but on this question, let's consider who is literally doing the coercion. It seems to me the evidence is assuredly and astoundedly on the evolutionist who has historically done the coercing. Hundreds of thousands (millions) of Orthodox believers in the Soviet Union murdered by evolutionists coupled with their tyrannical imposition of evolutionism in the communist schools. I'm not aware of Orthodox creation believers doing anything like this to people who believe in evolution not once in history or even today, frankly.
@@iliya3110 I'm sorry I meant the transgender movement.
@@benaiahwright937 I can agree with that for sure
Crazy hypothesis here, but maybe humans are some kind of synthesis of both heaven AND earth. Someone should write that down...
Actually, in Genesis, Man (Ha Adam) is included in the generation of (the toledot) of the Heavens and Earth. Then you get the generation lists of Adam and so on. The biblical authors are very intentional in making Ha Adam as a member of the family of creation as laid out in Genesis. Notice also man is created on the 6th day WITH the animals and BOTH are called 'very good' by Ha Elohim. Adam is also tasked with husbanding the earth, the womb to which he returns. So the earth is set up as a wife and/or mother. The language of the family is embedded from the first page of Scripture.
27:45 - 31:49 on Aestheticism & contentment vs Consumerism & Discontent and The Machine
Or Technological Babel as I call it. Which is what the worship of the Machine and Consumerism leads to...Serving God or Mammon. The worship of Mammon leads to anti-communion and its corollary mis/discommunication and a loss of meaning and purpose and life (the isolated, autonomous individual).
This is all connected to relational ontology and the centrality of the Person. Persons aren't meant to consumer. We are meant to commune to create.
The Creator is making creators. Creators aren't consumers. Hence we need aestheticism.
Kingsnorth talks about how people are looking inside instead of outside for meaning. I would guess that he would claim science has disenchanted the world -- we are just worms crawling aimlessly from worm cradle to worm grave. So, if we hadn't disenchanged God's world, then we wouldn't need to look inside for meaning.
only people who are looking out side for meaning are people looking for fake idols, truth is only inside, Jesus figured this out, so they crucified him to shut him up
luckily in india, culture wasnt as toxic like it was in rome, so when gautama came to same conclusion, he was celebrated, not crucified, and now you have people like you who were brainwashed by romans and then newly risen catholic church propaganda, that the truth is outside of you
we are all son of god, jesus was a human, just like you and me, dont buy the false narrative that christian churches are trying to sell you to make you weaker
"No opinion matters finally: except your own"
Holbrook Jackson
"said the man who thought he was a rabbit".
G K Chesterton
The trans issue in a nutshell!
15:00 i see Blade Runner then i see Pinokio story they i see greek myth about stone sculpture becoming human
then i see origin of it in ideoeuropean
myth of world creation from clay picked by divide duck from primordial sea bottom binding two opposite elements
we transform old stories into own time context and dreams completely deforming
what was its original context and meaning
opposite divine elements making us as mix
a bit self contradictory full and complete
balanced but of two different essenses
heavenly and natural soil
like a spark of electricity between opposite potentials
and they remade it in hermetic lunacy way
into opposite story of repeating divine work
and reversing origin story into fake
artificial opposite
men in postGods era forming God, bringing divine for pleasure of lost atheists wishing
to pretend to be religious and divine
higher than what they are
smarter than they are
more enlightened beyond own poor capacity
unique and lasting forever despite not contributing anything worthy of rewarding
them with it
it's defying fate,
it's becoming rational understanding material reality and then rebeling from the
inconvenient and scary truth irrationally
pretending to be rational logical facts driven
but in reality trying to bring back magic
mystery divine to a dead material boring
wasteland of own modern model of world
and it's funny as they break religious people with scientific narrative while in truth
in works even better in opposite direction
you decompose materialism by pointing out how materialists beg for world to not be
material understandable simple ordinary
dead in essence and fleeting by entropy and force of time
that's also core of their fear if climate changes
refusal to accept the ever changing often
naturally cyclical nature of world
fear of lack of stable foundation security
lack of assurance things are as they think they are and keeping things fixed in place
it's deep anxiety about nature of science
which gives no guarantees!!! it gives best
actual approximity to truth
which can be anytime falsified by one
inconvenient fact ir experiment
and this fear in a huge collective of people
ends with opposite to science
selling people fake assurances and fake
fixed take on scientific knowledge
a dogmas
You scare people with climate change and blame people for it to get their permission to
fix climate with human hand making it a divine hand. it's not playing on rationality but
in irrationality of people. And them the process fueled with money rules everything
and selfperpetuates itself like beurocracy does at all times.
You dig deeper in lies breaking need bottoms.
It's like accumulated capital's distraction
from it's scale to stsy low key
and an accumulation scheme itself to
create new pharaohs
coercing people to self sacrifice of irrational fear of doom, by doomeaters priests who
failed to receive divine blessing blaming people for it instead kept accountable for
failing people in mediation between them and the divine
they won't admit their failure to understand nature so they push blame for own
incompetence and false explanation of
world's mechanics they wish to believe in
on people
they feel like a collective Pope who is blessed and never mistaken whom followers
must follow
it's also very in spirit of reformation
with deformed take on biblical texts
seeing only parts they want while ignoring other changing understanding completely
for utility, for salvation by working ass out,
by not seeking true good actions, grace
it's like bitcoins proof of work for divine reward of system, a bit in line with social
credit
I fell asleep in the bath waiting for the waffle to end,woke up at mention of, writing about the environmental movement', and more waffle. We don't need any more rence sitting cowards Glad I needed sleep or I'd be mightily pissed with this waste of my time.
Nothing Putin wouldn't agree with here.
Starting with a fake djembe in the background? 😂😂😂
Is the same guy interviewing an AI duplication of himself?
Evolutionary mythology is dead.
Mrna just put the final dager in it!
50 years I've hunted details in every avenue every assumption in depth in every field of subjects its false .
Please read “Return of the God Hypothesis”
By Stephen Meyer
4 1/2 minutes of nothing, to Strat with, must move on