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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- The Panda Revo brings the convenience and versatility of the Revo ecosystem to the Bambu P1 and X1 series printers. With this upgrade, switching between bigger and smaller nozzles becomes a trivial task. According to BigTreeTech this hotend is capable of 40 mm^3/s of flow with the included 0.4 mm nozzle, which is double that of the stock hotend. But is it really? And do we even NEED that much flow?
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00:00 What is Panda Revo?
00:51 Installation
01:25 PCBWay Ad
01:56 Heating & Temperature Tests
03:12 Flow Testing
05:00 Quick Change Nozzles
06:00 Price & Value
06:49 Added Benefits
07:13 Do We Even NEED This Much Flow?
08:14 The REAL Limiting Factors
10:16 Summary & Conclusions - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[Vowel]물고기는 물에서 살아야 해🐟🤣Fish have to live in the water #funny](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3G9MH063Cx4/mqdefault.jpg)
IMHO this is really only worth it for larger diameter nozzles. 0.6mm nozzles can still achieve very comparable results in quality and can take much better advantage of the higher flow rates. 0.8mm quality will suffer quite a bit, but for things like shelf brackets or other functional prints, this might not matter. I think you maybe focused a little too much on 0.4mm nozzles, so maybe a follow-up with some larger diameter nozzle slicing times and test prints would be nice. Also it would be great to compare this to the drop-in ObXidian nozzle for 0.4mm printing, because I personally think it's a better choice for that use case since it maintains the hardened nozzle, can achieve nearly the same flow rate, and costs a fraction as much. Thanks for taking the time to make the review.
Completely agreed and seconded
I recently got the obXidian nozzle. I've noticed better looking prints from having a higher flow nozzle even though I'm not getting close to that actual flow rate because I don't print very large prints. Not sure why higher flow would print better when not actually printing at higher flow rates but the proof is in the pudding. Need someone smarter than I am to look into it
Let me clarify. I have the E3D high flow nozzle. Not the revo line
@@Bennett_Lab It would be from getting a more consistent and thorough melt for your filament as it's passing through the melt zone. The ObXidian nozzle has the internal CHT-style split chambers that allow way more contact area and therefore better thermal conductivity to your filament. You can expect to see a more glossy finish if you're using a filament that would support that. Also the ObXidian moves the thermistor to the opposite side of the nozzle, so the nozzle may also be getting a few degrees hotter than it would stock.
@@legacyofbobYes, I am going to run some flow tests to see what I can maintain at 210c nozzle. Currently running 220c and 34 volumetric set with no underextrusions. 30 volumetric is the magic number so I hope it can hit it.
I use the ability to swap nozzles quickly all the time, i currently have revo on all my printers and absolutely love it.
You might enjoy having an even better quick nozzle swap soon ^^
@@starlexDHB3dprinterhotendok, you got me, i,’ve bookmarked your webpage 🙂
This is what I needed to convince me to buy a BambuLab. I have two printers with the Revo system and I love it.
exciting to see since I already have revo nozzles on my other printers. one set of nozzles is appealing
Incredible overview and analysis!!
Thank you!
Do those last tests with a
.6mm nozzle and the accompanying profiles. The accelerations and linear speeds are dramatically decreased while still maintaining massive flow rates, you longer hit those other physical walls.
Something like this is honestly needed for a diamondx nozzle. That's what this really was designed for in general. No more filament wear.
There are revo diamondback nozzles :) Can't link, cause TH-cam, but if you google them, they exist. Now, it costs $180 for a single one, so up to you if you think it's worth that...
Hey, great comparison and explanations, like that approach with the details, makes things clear. Thanks sharing.
I'm preparing a new nozzle type and heat block approach that should bring some great changes in matter of heat efficiency and flow... impatient to have it tested to confirm it...
Thanks! Sounds like an interesting project. Where can I learn more?
Totally agree with lowering the temp by 10C. I did and I am now getting the same performance as before. For those wondering, Revo is an ecosystem which I could use the same nozzle with any printer brand with a Revo. So, the main point is the ease of swapping nozzles.
If you see the topic from CNC kitchen it could make sense to have a high flow nozzle for the added strength benefit.
The price is holding me back. I really like the fact that you can quickly swap nozzles, so printing a larger object that doesn't require fine detail, can be done with .6 or .8 nozzle. But I don't have multiple printers to benefit even more from the investment. I realize that however easy it is to change out a Bambu Lab hotend, the Revo is way more easy. But paying €300 for a hotend and 2 extra nozzles makes me think a bit harder about the investment...
It's definitely a steep investment. As you pointed out, it's not that difficult to change the default hotend, but it's just inconvenient enough that I don't do it. With the Revo setup I feel that I'll be more likely to slice for bigger or smaller nozzles as the application requires.
Oooh and here I was trying to buy the E3D high flow Bambu hotend … I really liked the Revo nozzle swapping on my old Ender3 (converted to BTT/Revo hotend), so I think I’m gonna have to buy this instead (-8
I have had the E3D Bambu nozzle for a week now and I am running 30 volumetric because I only saw print quality decline as speed ramped up to meet the flow. I also saw no time savings. There is barely time savings compared to stock 0.4mm with Bambu filament. I am seeing maybe 15% faster in overall print times. Which means I can up the quality levels and finish a 0.16 layer in the time of a stock 0.20 layer height. I also increased my line width to 0.5mm and it's been working well. My recommendation is to avoid the cheap CHT nozzle. I had so many issues I stopped using it after 2 days.
Which one do you recommend? A link would be great. thank you
This happened to me just yesterday and yesterday. With HS TZ2.0 I went back to the original because they didn't work well for me, material came off, a lot of threads and so on. I think I will buy a Revo later, but only for the quick change issue. While it is better to buy the original 0.6 and have the 2 0.4 that the standard machines come with.
Has this been approved by Bambu? I am not sure if the extruder board was designed to give more wattage. They just mentioned this in a bambu blog post.
E3d's bambuXobsidian nozzle page is missing for me, and I can't buy from the website. Did they have a legal falling out over this Panda Revo?
I'm convinced, the nozzle-change will be adressed with the next iteration of Bambu Printers
They already addressed it on the A1 series.
Yep. I bet they'll adopt the A1 style hotend on the next-gen X1.
I fully expect the X2C (or whatever they call it) to adopt a lot of the A1 advancements, such as moving the filament select to the head and the hot-swap nozzles.
I agree. The cooling is better on the A1 toolhead as well
I miss having Revo since upgrading from Prusa MK3S+ to P1P & P1S machines. I have other size hotends but never bother to switch them. I used to switch them all the time when I had Revo
i shall grab one
how much faster can it make using a 0.8mm nozzle as i have purchased a 0.8mm nozzle from bambu only to realise it doesnt really reduce the print time due to it slowing the speed down, i assume because it isnt possible to push the filament any quicker at this size nozzle. so would be interesting to know how it effects printing times with 0.8mm nozzle. can it make 0.8mm prints much quicker?
I’ve just installed and tested the E3D HF ObXidian 0.4mm and got 41mm3/s without any flaws… X1C, eSun Gray PLA. impressive!
Interesting. What temperature? I’d expect the ObXidian to flow the same as brass.
220C all other settings as Generic PLA.
And that was the non revo version? Very interesting!
@@zackfolmar227 yeap… no revo. e3D ObXidian
@@walterandreis5083 Worth the money?
I pre ordered one. Still waiting on it.
Same here
Me as well
Has anyone printed with the 1.4mm?
How much detail did you get?
I pre-ordered one too... knew it'd be more expensive, but as I use Revo's elsewhere I reckoned the convenience was worth it. I'm still waiting but nice to see a review.
Hey Taylor. Love the video! And the testing and rabbit hole exploring.
Did you happen to test the stock hot end at 260-270° (whatever you figured the Panda hot end equals in the real world) with the eSUN fast PLA or whichever they said they got the best flow results, with the Bambu hot ends and their nozzle sizes.
I’m curious how much you can push the flow rate on the X1C with higher temps.
I got one of these nozzles and it broke day 1. Assuming just a lemon. I’m still waiting for resolution 6 weeks later, w the holiday breaks.
That said, I loooove the idea of quick-change nozzles on the X1C. It could be worth it for those!
I really don’t like all the hassle with stock hot ends, having to unscrew, unplug, and the reverse, aaand sometimes reuse the heater and thermistor with the Bambu hot ends. And like you guys have said, that can wear/break the PCB. Yikes.
Looking forward to more A1 mini style nozzles!
Thanks!
Yes, I did do that test. I showed it briefly in the video @4:47 but didn't talk about it. The result with the stock hotend at 260C was much worse than the Revo HF at the same temperature. It seems that there's a non-linear relationship between temperature and flow on the Revo. At higher temperatures, the flow is considerably better on the Revo than stock. Whereas at lower temperatures the flow is only marginally better. I only have this one data point so I can't say for certain whether that's a global trend, but I thought it was interesting.
The motion speed and flow rate of the Bambu Lab P1/X1 printers work quite nicely with the default 0.4mm nozzle diameters. Once you start increasing the flow rate with hotends like the Panda Revo, you also have to increase nozzle diameter, layer thickness, and print width correspondingly. Otherwise, you'll just run into the speed constraints of your motion system.
Beyond that, shoriening your print time often comes from effects like printing two walls @ 0.6mm width instead of three walls @ 0.4mm -- and doing that at the same print head speed requires an increased hot end performance...
.6mm nozzle flow and speed tests would have been valuable. I jam on my V400s with 35-40mm^3 with .6 CHTs and love it.
I don't change my X1C hotend often but it's just easy enough that if I've a project that will really work better with a larger or especially smaller nozzle, I'll do it. But I've started to run into periodic problems with the hotend fan failing mid print. After some digging, the most likely culprit is that wear on those little JHT connectors for the wires mean the plugs are vibrating themselves loose over time. Plus, a couple of them are difficult to really get firmly seated, which makes them more likely to work loose.
Using this setup would avoid all those potential damage/failure points. I just wish BTT would offer the hotend with a choice of nozzles. I print slow for extra detail and layer adhesion, so the high-flow hotend is a waste for me. I'd much prefer to have the option to save some money and get just a simple nozzle.
I’ve heard that a lot lately about damaging the hotend PCB by plugging / unplugging too many times. I agree with you on the hotend choice. I’d like to see them offer ObXidian as an option and perhaps a multi-pack of nozzles.
This is even worse of an issue if the P series because of the much smaller pins compared to the JST (I believe) connectors on the X series. I bent the pins twice and I was lucky enough to be able to bend them back in place but it's not an easy task to accomplish.
Thanks for specifying Max flow on that 0.4 mm nozzle at max flow rate of 25 but what about the rest of them?
0.25, 0.6, 0.8, 1?
Max flow rate is proportional to nozzle size. Larger nozzles will flow better. I would have done more testing of it but I only had the 0.4 mm HF on hand. I tested the 0.6 and 0.8 non-HF versions and found that the 0.4 mm HF flowed as well as the 0.8 mm non-HF. So that shows you just how much better the CHT is. I imagine with a 0.6 HF you'd be able to hit the advertised 40 mm^3/s. However, they specifically said it could do 40 mm^3/s with the 0.4 mm, which I was only able to accomplish with excessively high temperatures. The redeeming factor is my finding that we don't actually require that much flow with a 0.4 mm nozzle. Larger nozzles will require a higher flow rate because of the wider extrusion width, but that will come naturally because the orifice size is larger so there is less back pressure.
Nope, it's not proportional to nozzle size -- the main factors are the power of your hotend heater (the Panda Revo has 60 Watt instead of the Bambu heater with 48 Watt) and the nozzle design (classic vs. multi-channel CHT designs) that determines how to get the energy from the heater into the filament to actually melt the material. Once the material is sufficiently viscous, both a stronger extruder and a wider nozzle make it easier to get it out onto the print bed.
@@janmartin1501 thanks. I should clarify. I didn’t mean to say it is directly proportional, regardless of other variables. A 0.6 CHT will have a higher max flow rate than a 0.4 CHT but a 0.4 CHT has more flow than a 0.6 non-CHT (based on my testing). So the increase of flow rate with nozzle size only holds true if you’re comparing apples to apples (CHT to CHT).
I might do this upgrade with the Diamondback revo tips when they come out, that will make the life of the tip a lot longer and can print carbon fiber without destroying the tip. Diamonds are forever, isn't that the saying? Until then I'll just use the cheap bambu tips. Also, maybe they will get the temp reading fixed in a revision, if that is possible since the thermistor can't be placed the same.
I'll wait for the aliexpress copy of this for 20$
I haven't seen any Revo clones yet. You'd think they'd exist by now.
@@ygk3d They've cloned the nozzles and the heater core. Nozzles go for about $6-$12/ea.
not like the Revo but plenty of similar design but you need a tool and not your fingers
I think e3d and BTT made a good product for all bambu owners
Im waiting to see what the X2 printer is going to be before dropping the dough on this. I suspect it will have the same nozzle setup as the A series. While the full nozzle assembly isn’t hard to change, like yourself, it’s enough of a pain to avoid slicing in larger diameters or CF filaments.
i hope they offer an upgrade for x1's having just bought one...
the price is absolutely insane
I’m hoping now that there’s an official collab we’ll get a cheaper AliExpress clone like we’ve gotten with the CHT kits. Currently that’s what I use and I’ve had great success with flow rates up to 35 flow rate.
The revo doesn’t seem to have been cloned yet. Not sure why. You might see the revo compatible heater block on AliExpress with the spring, heater core and nozzle still needing to be purchased from E3D.
$150 for just some convenience.....OH HELL NO!
The build quality is super sketchy too. This should be a big pass for everyone.
Would be interesting to see the standard nozzle tested at 260 C. I bet the results are similar.
I showed this briefly in the video but didn't talk about it. The Revo seemed to perform considerably better at the higher temperature. I was able to get nearly 40 mm^3/s at 260C with the 0.4 mm HF Revo nozzle, but only got around 22 mm^3/s with the stock nozzle at 260C (v.s. 19 at 230). There must be a non-linear relationship between temperature and flow with the CHT.
Cooling really wouldnt be much of a factor with ABS or ASA, any results on those materials?
True, good call on that. I got slightly better flow rate results with ABS.
In a 0.6 pound for pound.
Ali express 0.6 CHT harden steet nozzle
Vs 0.6 revo Obsidian High flow
Which one can produce more flow? I just care about the bottom line max flow number. Which can produce more (i ONLY make large blocky prints and will 100% benefit from flow and higher temp as i ramp up my tempe pretty high so they are somewhat strong) max speed max output is my only interest. If its not yours. Please ignore this comment. If anyone knows please let me know
It would be so cool if the bambu can do laser also
I really like the idea of picking up a panda revo just so I can also grab some diamondback nozzles for my x1c. I think thats worth noting. Buy that's yet another money sink thar costs even more than the panda
I haven't experimented with those myself. Not sure what benefit they would have over something like the ObXidian which is already a wear-resistant nozzle.
I'm running diamonbacks on the standard clone hotends, but am switching to the panda.
@ygk3d the difference is that obx are wear resistant, DBs are (virtually) wear *proof*. Also, insanely good thermal properties, better than any metal.
@ygk3d doc down there Saud it pretty well, but yeah the diamondbacks are essentially wear proof with great thermals. Watched an interview where diamondback has up to 10k hours printing cf-nylon with virtually no wear.
Is there a 0.1mm nozzle available for this?
0.15
for timing nozzle heater, the most accurate way is set temperature to 260 or more, and make timing from 0 to 200C, because when temperature closing in to target pid kick in, not in 100% cycle power... and you mentioned the hotend heater PID can't be tuned so timing with different heater is not valid...
sorry for bad english...
Good call! Thanks for this tip. I'll plan to use this strategy in the future.
I'm seriously considering this hotend as an upgrade but i need specific info i've yet to find a single video on. I regurarly do multicolor. E3D can't give me an answer if it's cable to do this without clogging, and BTT email support said it can't yet (for the X1C). Can you make a video on this? My latest print is dragon by Albaro_3D from printables that did 1874 color swaps in 4 days. The high flow of this hot end would really push that down but i need a video about multicolor swaps in action and print results
The only thing I could see potentially being impacted is transition length. You might need more purge more to fully clean out the nozzle. Otherwise, it will work the same as the stock hotend for multi-colour printing.
@@ygk3d good to know, but I kind of want to see it in action. Reading it can successfully swap colors is one thing. Seeing it do them and completing a print is an entirely different thing. I just can't bite the bullet unless I see it in action doing multiple color swaps and finishing a print. Especially with the cost of the hotend (and your comment just now directly contradicting my emails from BTT). I'm happy to fw you the email chain to your contact email listed on linktree if it's ok?
@@Ch3vr0n sure, thanks. I’d be interested to see that. I just don’t understand why it wouldn’t be possible.
in that case I'll fw the email chain either tomorrow or during the weekend. I'll see a response then when you have the time, no rush. Ain't available for release anyway until April. @@ygk3d
@@ygk3d Email has just been sent. Email subject "TH-cam comment discussion about color changes"
Nah. I get a complete hotend assembly for 36€ from Bambu. Changing the hotend takes around 1min if already cold. I have 0.2-0.6 Hotends and change them when necessary but 90% of the time I print with 0.4mm anyway.
OK now swap to a 0.6 nozzle and check volumetric flow, it doubled. a 0.6 nozzle is perfect for cutting printing time with minimal to no loss in quality. The only place where detail is lost is on features that are less than about the diameter of the nozzle so 0.6, and even then only some detail is lost. In reality if 90% of the printing you do is functional a 0.6 nozzle with better flow to boot can cut printing time by nearly half from a 0.4 nozzle
🤥
Bambu hotends are $15
-temperatures are correct
-fan doesn't need to be ripped off
-changes take 2 minutes
Great video!!! Very unbiased revo, sorry review.
Thank you, and nice pun :)
Would be nice if you could buy it.
Yeah, not sure why it can't be purchased right now. I think it is backordered.
Excuse me how much? wtf.
The revo's imo are not as good as the V6 style nozzles.
Aliexpress cht is like 8dollar
Exactly aliexpress all the way no need for this fancy revo crap
no idea why so expensive is it, becomes just nozzle with heater and thermistor you gan get for 25usd, that mean radiator with m4 hole cost so much? I just order from PCBway rest of part, total savings 2/3 of price or instruction how to stole from China
Really tell us more
I'm also curious
My guess is a lot of mouths to feed... BigTreeTech, E3D, BondTech and 3D Solex (owners of the CHT patent) all need a piece of the pie.
@@ygk3d china copy everything but not own designs i guess
Nice review. Far too expensive for what it is and for the very little benefit it bring.
I dont mind changing my BL X1C hotend, it isnt that hard! and so I wont be buying the Revo hotend!
That’s fair. It’s definitely not that hard. Will be even easier when they bring the A1 style hotend to the next generation X1.
Thank you for letting us know.
there is nop reason to pay 130 Eur for this... if i am not getting that much different flow, and as you claim everything above 40 it don't matter. so why should someone buy this ? for fast changing the nozzle!? nah thanks in 15 mins its done on stock.
I just did a few changes from .4 to .2 and back and it really only takes like 2 min max to get the nozzle out and back in. Most of my time was spent waiting for the machine to heat up, move and for the hot end to cool enough to handle it.
I also bought this hot end and oh boy, the quality of the splices on the wires is so bad. One of the connections just wasn't there under the heat shrink, the other was weak too. They were also spliced right where I needed to make the bend for that bundle to fit in the printer. Took them forever to offer to send replacement wires and thermo, like 2 months and they want me to just resolder them. I told them to keep it, I'm not using their cheap shit.
Unless you are in the revo ecosystem already, I can't see this being a win for anyone.