Bambu Lab High Flow Hotend Upgrade (E3D ObXidian)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2024
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In this video we take a look at E3D's new HF hotend made specifically for the Bambu Lab P and X series of printers. This uses a special coating to prevent buildup and uses a special nozzle insert that great increases the hotends max output. We will go over what the install process is like and what test results where.
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Agree. E3D really needs to sell a fully assembled version.
Yeah, it’s not very enjoyable and the stock thermistor seems like it could be fairly easily damaged during the transfer if not careful.
I will buy a 0.4 and 0.6 hotend as soon as they offer the assembled version. I used DIY printers for 7 years, sold / gave them all away and went for the X1 Carbon because i don't have the time nor the nerves to tinker around anymore. I want a working tool and to be honest, i don't even want to assemble this hotend by hand. I am willing to pay a premium to get this done by someone else.
@@Nepoxification I don’t think you are alone with that.
@@Nepoxification one more in the "I don't have the time nor the nerves to tinker around anymore" boat...
I would gladly buy one assembled but probably won't do it myself.
The temp error you got is a known issue with the clone hotends that accepts normal nozzles, the stock 48w heater is just not enough at higer flowrates. Youll want to get the heater of the rapido 2.0, chcb-ot or any other 60w+ ceramic flat heater.
Good to know. That makes a lot of sense and explains it. The filament is just outrunning that heater. So when it maxes it the drop off is fast.
Yet another reason that E3D needs to offer a fully assembled version. @@ModBotArmy
@@ModBotArmysince the heaters can draw less max power at higher temps it'll be even more obvious when testing filaments that need to be printed near the hotends max temp.
There's a reason most high flow hotends come with 80 or 100w cartridges by default.
I've run into this issue even with the stock hotend when I try to print at high flow rate and high temperature. The filament cools the hotend too fast.
Can you get those heaters with p1s connectors? Or is it a rewiring job?
As someone who 90% of the time runs multi day prints, this is worth every penny. The only problem is that at least so far, since E3D first listed them, it seems as though the only people to get their hands in these has been those lucky enough to have E3D send them to them free in exchange for advertising ..... I hope that they start selling these to the public soon. I'll be among the day 1 sales.
Some resellers here in Germany have gotten shipments this week. I’ve snacked one up for myself today.
Maybe worth looking now since it’s seems like they are shipped out now (the reseller claims to have 20+ in stock)
informative video and straight to the point with no bullshit, a rare thing on TH-cam nowadays. Kudos man, you've got a new sub
Interesting video as always 👍
Nice to see that the big firms is working together to move the max speed for the printers 👍😀
Thanks Asger! I love seeing the collaboration 😊
What I'd like to see is a comparison between the stock nozzle and the E3D HF nozzles of a benchy or other model that is prone to having the finish change between matte and glossy when the machine gets limited by the minimum layer print time vs it printing at max speed.
It'd be nice if they added a HF option as a standard selection in Bambu Studio/Orca, seeing as how its an official partnership. I'm sure it'd be conservative settings that most would want to calibrate regardless, but for those that just want this without wanting to tinker that'd be a nice option.
100% agree with this.
When they said it was an officially supported product, this is exactly what I thought they meant by that. Hope they do it, otherwise I don't care that it's officially supported at all!
I got an 0.4 E3D hotend for my X1C in december (0.6 was already sold out then...) and my experience is more or less the same as yours. Could push PLA(+) easily up to 30 mm³/s, but also noticed that the heater had problems holding the temp going above that flow when using higher-temp filaments like PCTG/ASA.
During installation I just flipped the retaining clip so the "cutout" was on the same side as the thermistor hole. Since there is one of these little 'springs' on each side of the retaining clip the heater got pushed onto the hotend just as well. So I don't see the need of including a different retaining clip.
Asides that I didn't have to adjust the temps. Temp tower was basically the same with the stock and E3D hotend. But I re-ran the PA calibration and the values slightly differed from the stock hotend.
Nice video thank you!! When they have a "complete" assembled one with the fan and everything - I'd jump in.
Great video, and answered most of the questions I've had regarding this upgrade. Thanks!
Great video. I was suprised it jad such alarge improvement over the stock one.
For anyone looking for printed instructions, E3D does have instructions on the product page if you scroll down and click on the Documentation tab.
It looks like they do intend you to turn the clip around to account for the thermistor being on the on the other side, but aside from that these instructions are pretty spot on.
ohhh thanks for this video man! Have been debating on grabbing some of these
Dude with your helmet printing and just large models in general you should definitely be able to crank things up! 😊
Install the clip flipped upside down. That way the channel for the thermistor is aligned with it.
There is a notch for the heater. It applies some force to it so that it stays in place. That was the primary reason I didn’t flip it.
@@ModBotArmy yeap I’ve seen it too on mine. It shouldnt matter as the clamping force is the same whichever way you install it as the heater is “overhanging” the nozzle. Certainly better than stripping the thermistor of its insulation if you scratch it against the clip
@@igiannakas yeah your probably right. The heater is much less fragile and with the clip on and silicon sock the heater doesn’t really have anywhere to go. I’m more curious why they moved the hole 🤷♂️
@@ModBotArmyI’m guessing here but thinking that having it further away from the heater block gives better temp readings 🤷🏻♂️
@@igiannakas interesting. Definitely could be it. I’m sure there has to be a reasoning. That’s as good as any theory I have come up with.
very informative, thanks for the video
Looks like it'd be a lot easier to slip that retention clip if you rotated it around the hotend 180 degrees. That way the notch (5:05) would be at the top and the little bumps would be at the bottom allowing room for the thermistor wires.
Yeah I think that is the better way of doing it. Less likely to accidentally damage the thermistor or it’s wires.
that's how they come stock, those notches are there for a reason :)
Exactly my thoughts! I was actually quite surprised why he put it on „backwards“. And judging by the few macro shots of the bare hotend the heater block had no detents or similar features visible…?
that's what I was thinking, this guy must not be naturally mechanically inclined, how could you miss that
neat! we are going to need breakthroughs like this if we are going to start having 1 meter bed sizes
great stuff! have you maybe compared how A1 performs in this test vs P1/X1, did they improve the capacity maybe?
Just installed one after having Chinese clone clogging multiple times with pla+ i never had issues with. Hopes are high
Good to see they are getting better and collaborating with other companies. I personally have about 8 hot ends of various sizes so will not be buying any soon!
Nice! I hope they will make one for the A series as well!
would be great for the A1 as well, just anything to stop the PETG sticking.
My guess is the nozzle temp error is due in part to the location of the thermistor relative to the ceramic heater. If there's an appreciable heat gradient across the heating block (say, if you're doing flow rate tests at the upper limit of the ceramic heater's wattage), then the stock thermistor is going to be measuring the high end of that gradient (sitting just under the heater and before the filament channel), while the E3d thermistor is going to be measuring a lower part of that gradient (sitting far from the heater and with the filament channel between the two acting as a heat sink).
short and interesting, perfect
Yeah, I have CHT nozzles on my Sunlu. They are awesome
How well does the coating prevent PETG in particular from sticking? Multicolor PETG prints are a nightmare because of blobbing.
Great stuff! I see that my Ender 5 S1 spider hotend also reaches about 21mm/s cubed with the warping edges like the original Bambu, would it be worth it to upgrade to a 1.30 USD clone CHT nozzle (when buying three at once) from Aliexpress?
For how cheap they are definitely, especially if you can get a hardened steel variant. Since they dont lose performance like a normal hardened steel nozzle would.
Saw the same results on my e3d nozzle. I bought a Rapido 2. heater (80w) and will see how this stacks up. Just waiting on delivery.
Which one did you get?
The one I see on Ali looks like the wire comes out at a 90°. The Bambu one comes out the end. Do you think that will work?
@@dvomang I think the Rapido 2 heater might not work, another user on the bambu discord tried and burned their toolhead board. So DONT DO THIS.
Incidentally 32mm3/s is the exact same max flowrate I got with PLA on my X1C using the aliexpress cht aftermarket nozzles.
I too have experienced the limits of the heater.
I discovered that the temperature problem it's because of the positioning of the thermistor cables and the silicone socket, when there's a gap that's not covering the metal base (close to the cables) it will give an error, because there will be a difference in the readings from the tip of the nozzle (where's the sensor) and the "cold" area that's not covering the socket. Once you put everything in the "original" position, it will go smoothly
Curious if this is worth it just to prevent clogs, Im not necessarily looking for more speed, just more reliability
Have you found any noticeable difference in print quality between the two nozzles?
How does it compare to the aftermarket V6 compatible nozzles/extruders with a CHT nozzle?
Thermistor is on the other side than heater in e3d solution, right? Makes more sense to measure temperature of entire block than it is done in stock hotend (which has thermistor on the same side as heater).
You got 32 mm^3/s flow on PLA at the stock Bambu temperatures? In order to get to 21 mm^3/s on generic PLA on my X1 consistently, I up the print temp to 240C. Lower than that, it might be ok, or it might jam, or it might even print, but have layer adhesion.
Would be interesting to see what this hotend can do with engineering grade filaments like PA CF ones or PC CF or so. Will it be possible to print those at top quality with top measures with 20 - 25 mm³/s. Otherwise it is worthless.
This was a very helpful review, thank you! I think E3D messed up on that thermistor placement. The clip can't be rotated 180 degrees, does that then affect the heater clearance? I will look into getting one or two of these for sure. And yeah, the highest flow temp errors are just that, you're outrunning the heater.
It sounds like you can rotate the clip but it still isn’t designed to be rotated. There is a notch for the heater one side. That being said rotating is still probably better than risking damage to the thermistor leads.
There's usually reasons behind design changes that we aren't aware of like optimal temperature control or relocation by design limitations from the larger chamber. I think E3D should make a complete hotend assembly that comes with a proper retaining clip and improved heater for this design to fully take advantage of their improved flow.
How does this nozzle design fair with filaments like pla sparkle or basic maintenance like cold pulls?
I think the biggest surprise here is that you’ve never had to perform surgery on a Bambu lab hotend until now. Consider yourself lucky lol. Thank you for the great video. Def investing in a couple of these for my machines
Strange comment. I have had to touch my nozzle with more than a dozen spools through
after installing, how do I take advantage of this? Do I modify g-code or where does this get set at? I've been watching for this to stop being out of stock, hopefully soon.
I damaged my thermistor during the process . Im getting the abnormal hotend temp error and reading at 0 degrees temp for the nozzle . Printer has been down for a few weeks as i wait on parts .
Im waiting for a Diamond Back nozzle for the Bambu eco-system. Its sounds like there a few months off.
Can you please do an episode on getting klipper to send notifications to your phone... 'push' notifications with status updates, like first layer done, print finished, etc.
I would be concerned about nozzle clogs with fiber reinforced filament. I would love to see tests with that given the CHT style has narrow channels within the nozzle I would assume it could clog easy. If its not good with fiber then it seems counter intuitive to have used obsidian in the first place. Thoughts?
The channels are larger than the nozzle orifice so if your nozzle can take it so will the cht insert
I've had no problems even with the hardened steel clone Vulcano cht's which have the worst internal geometry by far. Even with those Ive not managed to get a clog when using abs-gf or any CF filament.
It's more prevalent on Bowden printers with high retracts (1mm+) than on direct drive where you shouldn't really need more than 0.2-0.4mm when using the right PA.
A quick cold pull after using any reinforced/infused material filaments is an easy way to circumvent that. I typically perform cold pulls after swapping from any materials that don't play well together.
I understand the wavey test and that's cool. But, what setting will I be changing in a standard print to get more benefit out of this hotend upgrade? Higher mm/s print speed? Something more?
In larger prints with higher acceleration, you'd bump up the print speed(not acceleration) to a higher maximum to take advantage of the higher flow rate.
Alternatively, you could also get the .6mm nozzle and print double(your normal) thickness on specifically infill to speed up prints as well, which would also be taking advantage of the higher flow rate. For example, if you print at .2mm normally, you could use .4mm infill thickness and then your printer could potentially cut its infill print times nearly in half, while also making stronger infill.
Would the clip fit upside down? Looks like it would fit over the thermistor wire if you flipped it 180 degrees from original installation orientation.
Exactly correct! I’ve installed mine flipped and it works perfectly.
Noob question: after installing the new hotend what changes need to be made in the slicer in order for the printer to take advantage of the higher flow rate? I'm guessing the default profiles are assuming the original bambu hotend is installed. Or is there a new hotend already in the list that you just need to select? Thanks for the video!
You'd have to calibrate the filament first to determine your new max flow rate, then you would bump the Max Volumetric Speed in the filament profile
I haven’t seen any new hotend/profiles but that would be really nice. I may email e3d and see if there are plans. Under materials you need to adjust the max flow rate. It defaults to the max for the stock hardware. Other things to edit depending on your prints and goal is slow down for overhangs, min layer time for cooling, layer speeds and possible accelerations along with layer height/line width.
You will want to perform machine calibration and calibrate materials for the nozzle. It's like starting from scratch because the variables for flow have all been affected.
@@ModBotArmy does the hotend come with a manual to help make these changes?
Would have been more useful to have shown some real-world speed differences printing a few models of different sizes
So, if I am printing a lot of large blocky PETG items this might be worthwhile to me? Is there any info on the benefits specifically for PETG especially with that coating?
PETG is globby and sticky so obviously the non stick material will prevent boogers and contaminants in your prints especially when using clear or transparent filaments.
I would like to see a comparison between this and the ALi Express CHT nozzles
Maybe I'm missing something: Do I need to check a box in Bambu Studio or something to tell it I have this installed? Or does it just know somehow and increase the flow rate?
I wonder if they are working on one for creality k1 max
Could be interesting for a print farm but for not so much. My printer isnt running 24/7. Not sure it’s worth upgrading the hotend.
I would still be interesting in trying one. Have you also ever tested the new pla from various companies that claim they are higher flow? I purchased the polymaker sonic pla but have not yet tried.
I haven’t tried all of them. The only one I actually flow tested was hyper pla. I didn’t see any real difference th-cam.com/video/NWFBSuPAHko/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tbkxdHw7iawYg5wp
@@ModBotArmy Shoot i must have missed that video. Thanks for posting, will check it out
No need for a different clip, it simply fits 180 degrees from the stock setup. Also when fitting the thermister, it's vital that you get the thermal compound into the hole, paste on the side wont help. I'll be fitting one tomorrow to see if I run into similar issues.
Ooh, this might actually be fantastic for LW-PLA. You literally can't retract the stuff, and it's generally used for large pieces for model planes and cosplay.
I want to see a compact heat sink combination with 1 or 2 blower fans that draws air from heat sink to cool it down as well as circulate to cool the print. That would be one fan shorter and far more advanced.
What temperature did you use cause if you printing at fast speed you use higher temperature than recommended for example I print PLA at 240 C ?
I’m this case I ran slicer defaults. It didn’t feel right to raise speeds. It wouldn’t give a very accurate representation against the stock results. I agree though raising temps will let you print faster but it can introduce other complications.
Thanks for your fair review.
Ok bot
Great overview - However the problem is they were out of stock on launch -- And have been since. Hard to try a product nobody else can get..
I have a bigger question, based on the geometry. Can it really retract? The geometry should be preventing retraction, or at the very least, limiting it. If it is able to retract at all, what is the limit of the retraction? There is no chance of doing a cold pull with this, and an extremely small chance of clearing a clog, so how long will you truly be able to use it? If it was only $5, it would be expensive to replace often, but not nearly as much as $75(?). It will be nice to see if someone looks into this solely from a feasibility perspective.
This video had a sizeable impact on my descion to spend a sizeable amount of dolla-bucks to purchase this hot end that could give me a sizeable increase in print speed without a sizeable decrease in print quality.
Isnt the stock bambu supposed to push 32mm3/s ?
Thanks
Would love to see this up against the Aliexpress nozzles.
Is it possible to cold pull to clean the nozzle?
Nice results, but is the adhesion at more common flow rates like 15 mm³/s improved? I dont care about 30 mm³/s but of i get better nelting and adhesion at 15 mm³/s id buy it
Do you mean interlayer adhesion? So overall part strength?
CNC kitchen has a great video on that testing another highflow bambu hotend.
@@ModBotArmyinterlayer adhesion
The E3D stuff is back in stock for those looking for the upgrade
The clip has to be installed with the little "dent" covers the port of the thermistor. The clip and the ceramic heater does not care about which direction it goes. The only factor of direction is for the thermistor, and it should be adjusted accordingly.
Damn, I missed out on that and stock seems to be a struggle. Luckily i got the Panda Revo coming in soon
If you already have quite a few Revo nozzles the panda is cool for being able to quickly swap out nozzle.
Try to get gloves that are closer to skin tight. It won’t make fidgety tasks any less fidgety but if you’ve never sized down it makes a big difference. My dad has been painting for 40 years, both automotive and industrial and he taught me that early on when I he taught me his trade. For whatever reason he has always been insanely strict with PPE and when I first went to the mixing scales with baggy gloves he turned me right around and had me to size down. I was used to super cheap super thin gloves in my public high school and fast food job that would rip if you put on anything snug. I shared this knowledge with coworkers when I started working at a medical device company and it helped the ones that didn’t already have reasons for wearing baggy gloves.
Compare with the Bambu Revo nozzle from Biqu with a revo HF nozzle when it releases!
did you try rotate and reverse the clip? i think if you rotate/reverse the clip it will be fit and not clamping so much force on the thermistor, just like the stock
I just did it this way. It does work but fit seems to not be as good as with original orientation
Would love to see a direct head to head with the third party v2.0 hotend with their matching CHT
Me too! I have a few of the third party 2.0 on the way to test myself .
The other interesting option is the Big Tree Tech Panda hotend that is designed to fit the P1 and X1 and takes E3D nozzles.
@@hot_wheelz cool product but waayyyy too expensive
@@jasonjennings6686 totally depends on their market, if your 3d printer makes money for you then time is literally money, if you can increase flow rate by 60%, and if you do a lot or large, complex multi day prints, a nozzle like this can increase weekly output by 33% people like myself, literally cannot afford not to get these upgrades and we will buy them in multiples because we can afford to have downtime either.
Sold out
what is it about the BIQU Panda Hotend?
7:40 This is clearly an issue of the heater not being strong enough.
The error is most likely a temperature protection, as the printer is telling the hotend to heat up, but it doesn't, so it assumes a loose thermistor to avoid having the heater element heat up until it melts
Have you tried it with PETG? I’m having a hard time recently trying to print PETG with my X1C, for some reason when it comes out from the nozzle it likes to stick to the nozzle rather than to the PEI bed and it’s driving me nuts. I’ve of course cleaned the bed with dishwasher soap, IPA and I’ve even tried glue on it, but nothing helps
Is that the PEI "Textured" bed or Smooth?
Both, but I found a solution@@Omniverse0 . I found a video from Teaching Tech explaining how one can scrub a PEI plate not just with soap but also gently scrub it with steel wool. I had not a fine one but I had a polishing pad with some metal fibers embedded and gently used it doing circled. Now it works like new again, it was a really awesome trick to solve the issue
It would also be nice to see it compared to one of those CHT clone nozzles.
3rd party ali express CHTs flow 40mm^3/s all day.
CNC kitchen has already done it. the cht clone nozzles are 40-50mm sec no problem. I don't know why this product exists.
CNC kitchen has already done it. the cht clone nozzles are 40-50mm sec no problem. I don't know why this product exists.
Will you also be testing BIQU’s Panda hotends? It would be great to see a comparison. The price difference is significant but the benefit of being able to switch nozzles quickly is pretty nice.
I don’t know if I’ll do a dedicated video on it. Maybe a live stream on the ModBotArmy channel. Is it flow you want to see? Or just install and how well it does/doesn’t work?
@@ModBotArmy all of the above please? 😅 I’d definitely want to see the flow comparison, install, and nozzle changes. I think it currently comes with brass nozzles so it would be cool to also compare to other Revo nozzles, especially since BambuLab printers come in steel or hardened steel.
7:30 --- Bambulab should sell 55-60w heater if the printer can handle it
(or maybe try to build custom thicker brass / copper clip to hold the heater that will help with heat transfer and add more thermal mass.... maybe it will help)
So I was skeptical about the flow. I was very wrong it can print anything at 166% flow rate no problem for exception of petg. I primarily print TPU and that is the reason I bought the hot end it can print 95 a ninja at 200 mm a second. That is unheard of TPU. The only downside that I found is that for many filaments you cannot print the standard temperatures at 100%. You always have to do above the 100% speed standard settings on bambu studio.
And without further ado, let's get right into the soiboi forced catchphrase!
I cldnt understand what you changed at 06:36 to solve temp error, may you explain, i cldnt get what you meant by “swapped all of the electronics”
he disassembled the first setup, then used a different OEM bambu nozzle he had laying around to rebuild the obsidian
Been trying to find the .4mm in stock but have been unsuccessful
Im happy with my rapido HF with a .6 CHT clone :)
Can you put that on bambu extruder?
No i doubt it, bambu is its own ecosystem, however this video shows this e3d solution is pretty good@@xixipli
Yeah i thought so, that's why I was intrigued by your comment.@@Pappagar
since the temp sensor is opposite site you have to flip the spring clamp also. at 1:46 you put that wrong on it. if you push it like this on the temp wires could be cutted.
The only reason I wont buy one is it isnt in stock and isnt a fully assembled unit.
I used to be a klipper head and now I dont want to lift a finger past basic maintenance.
I feel like they're kinda missing the point of Bambulab printers by making it a pain to install.
So want that hotend for mine, but sold out.
Just wish they would get them back in stock. Missed them when they were first released and havent seen them back in stock since
@@E3DOnline Sounds good, Thanks for taking the time to reply!
And so, the struggle for the balance of power continues..
Turn the clip around, that way you're not pressing on the wiring and it fits in the groove like it should.
I probably should have shown in the video but the reason I didn’t just flip it is because there is a notch to apply some push onto the heater. The otherside doesn’t have that.
What’s the ETA? I’ve been on the notification list since they were announced and originally I thought they were supposed to ship in late December. Did E3D give any timeframe?
Expected restock is late February, we're really sorry about the delay. You will receive an email notif once they're back online.
Can you cover the panda revo from biqu?
If you flip the clip around you'll get no issues on the thermistor like you had
Yeah the reason I didn’t do that was the little inward retaining clip for holding the heating element in place. It’s probably fine to rotate but the top and bottom are different.
If you could get hold of one.
Any idea when they'll refresh the stock?
I’ll try to get an email sent off today.
would be nice to see the flow with the .6
Maybe I’ll play around with it on a live stream to see what we can reach.
@@ModBotArmy Gotta run some layer calibration tests first. See which height at your intended speed is most consistent. Should be some easy files out there on one of the printable sites you can use.
Increased flow rate also makes the print much stronger
Can you explain this? I thought faster generally makes for weaker layer to layer adhesion?
@@shenqiangshou depends. It is always related to the factor of how much energy is put into the material and how much cooling is on.
If you print fast with much cooling your prints will be weaker because the previous layer has cooled down too much. It is a fine tune of all your parameters to get strong parts. The key is how hot your previous layers are.
@@shenqiangshou sorry I phrased this wrong. You're right, the faster you print the less thermal energy you can put into the filament, so at some point it won't bond properly to the previous layer. What I meant to say is that a hotend that has a higher maximum flowrate will produce a stronger print than a hotend with a low max flowrate. Note that this effect only becomes noticeable when you print faster (more than 10mm³/s)
@@nikscha right, make sense, higher flow because it has the capacity to transfer more heat to the filament. Better melted filament leads to better layer adhesion. but probably not at the absolute maximum flow rate.