They Butchered Warcraft For THIS?! Jailer Cinematic Breakdown
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
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Happy times, we've just got the Zovaal introduction & end cinematic. Blizzard played it fast and loose with a lot of lore to get here, and this is what it's amounted to...
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00:00 intro
02:30 The Breakdown
08:14 "What Comes Next"
13:14 Borrowed Homework...
14:51 But Why?
16:29 How Does This Literally Work?
17:53 Track Record
19:00 Fate - What's Really Happening?
21:55 The Future - เกม
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I am gunna be honest, I am just going to ignore Zovaal being behind everything, because otherwise the lore makes no sense. And Zovaal as a character, hasn't EARNED that level of schemery.
Also hello! I hope you're well today!
Thank you for this video! :)
Something I didn't see mentioned in the video, why did the Azerite flow go through behind the Jailer in the Sepulcher when it should be going up through Torghast per the actual cinematic?
I am really happy with this cinematic because it means they arent butchering anything else. Just leave it as a closed book. Done. Over with.
Who is ultimately the primary person responsible for the WoW storyline these days? Is it Ian or is someone under him the primary idea person for these stories? Whoever it is, they need to be let go.
When Sylvannas said that the world is a prison and she will set us free, she meant wow and our suscriptions. 80% of my friends quit (myself included) in SL. Thanks Sylvannas!
Ok bai
Hell yeah dude.
And yet you still consume its media. So no, you didn't quit.
@@belinus7180 I haven't played a WoW expansion more than a month after WotLK with the exception of legion and let me tell you... Watching this shit show of a game fall apart is 100x more entertaining than actually playing lol... Thats why people consume its media, especially negative media, because its like a dumpster fire that just keeps growing and growing and growing, its engrossing, unlike the WoW story itself.
@@belinus7180 Lol I don’t even play WoW I’m just enjoying watching the trainwreck that it’s becoming.
The thing that bums me out the most is I get the impression the people writing and presenting this story are proud of what they did and will shrug off any scrutiny as just haters gonna hate. It's insane how WoW is designed and presented to us, totally bonkers.
Never look at there twitter's, they are legit crazy and also will shit talk the fans, like for instance Dansuer not only said the Jailer is based on Sun Tzu but that fans just don't understand. Golden is same usually promoting more excentric fawning of Anduin.
Fans can be wrong too you know not saying a majority but alot of complaints are a vocal minority who are most likely saying something differant to a-lot of other players
@@warrenny1168 fans can be wrong, but that doesn’t mean this story isn’t shit. Cause it is. Dirty, stinky, smelly, brown, mushy, shit. This story is shit and it’s robbery what they give you for your money compared to what they did before
@@b.d.a.8719 you realise kotick likely has no input on this right
Little humility goes a long way.
Belluar's character development over the course of SL has been the only interesting character development we've had over SL.
You mean, his mental gymnastics to justify this crap?
Even his character development wasn't too good. Because after all this, he should have left WoW like Preach or Pyro. Him still following this cluster fuck just breaks my suspension of disbelief in him being genuine. Because he is explicitly and accurately describing the lessons we have learned about how Blizzard operates and how they write their stories... Yet he acts as if he didn't learn this lesson himself.
More like Bellular's CD after Legion.
His optimism then almost made him look like an apologist for Bliz.😁
@@ShadowTheHedgehogCZ Maybe it's a selfless act to keep others away from the game or inform them of how bad things have gotten now in order to help people stay away. Also preach does still watch bits of the story and so does Pyro. But yknow, mostly shitting on it or seeing what it is in general. Preach liked a couple aspects of this latest cinematic but of course overall just garbage.
@@StormierNik Also, Preach is still playing, just not making WoW content anymore.
Zovaal is the best villan since so many players quit so there's no one to "defend" the world/worlds anymore. The shadowlands expansion really did have aspects with death in it since it really killed the game for me and many others.
THAT MONSTER! 😢
oh my god that is the best villain pissing everyone off so much they wont even fight him
They literally shat all over 20 years of Chris Metzen's work and the emotional investment of millions of people. None of the decision makers on the WoW team should be given another chance.
Agreed. So Arthas was basically deleted from existence? These new designers are creating the most garbage content. I started my account like 2004 and am actually probably going to cancel it after all this time. I've stuck by them for this long... It's becoming unbearable.
the fact that Steve Danuser still has a job is absolutely beyond me. man single handedly destroyed wow lore
@@peterxu4999 I have been preaching this since I found out he was a lead story dev. He is absolute garbage.
@@NO-ib1je Yeah I believe he became lead narrative designer during BFA and just look at how bad the lore has gotten since then. Sad.
They tried to blame Afrasiabi and deleted all NPCs with his name too. They thru the OGs under the bus. Blizz went woke and is going broke
"This is what Teldarssil burned for" is a brutal assessment! What an opening line!
This is what all of WoW burned for
Teldrasil burned so Ardenweald have some more anima in its reservoir. That's not even a lie.
@@thunder9236 except those souls went straight to the maw and had to be rescued....
Teldrassil is a very fond place for me with many good memories. I know you can technically still go there in game, but the pointless destruction of it was the game telling me it's no longer the Warcraft that I fell in love with and grew up with.
So, anyone wanna bet that there will just be little to no consequences for the burning? That it will just be swept under the rug as a "Whoopsie, our leader was mind controlled." I mean even if that excuse was accepted I kinda feel like the Horde just for once would realise "oh fuck, we really messed up" and at the very least as a gesture of some good will withdraw all Horde forces north of Durotar and Ogrimmar, abandoning all claim to those lands.
You could then have a bit of a side story about the Horde now being forced to seek alternative sources of lumber, but with the tacit understanding that the hardships they face as a result of that are entirely of their own making and part of making penance for the horrible crimes committed because they didn't have the spines to stop their second insane power hungry warlord.
Nah, who am I even kidding. I wouldn't be surprised if the Night Elves don't even get a new capital or major seat of power.
Hearing that the WoW narrative lead called GoT's season 8 "excellent," feels like it honestly explains so much and just makes me so sad.
The only cycle the Jailer broke was good expansion > bad expansion > good expansion. BFA and SL back to back has been brutal to say the least
BFA wasn’t that bad. I enjoyed the world pvp like hell and the player base seemed to think so. The full scale battles were majestic and it kicked a whole-sale of ass.
@@cdajah6920 I'll agree with you there, a few of the world quests that brought alliance and horde together into natural wPvP sitations was really fun, also the drop box with gear/currency was such a cool idea and I'm sad that it's no longer in the game with current xpacs. However the restrictions and friction of the azerite gear, necklace, essence systems, and randomness of corruptions (and the rotating nature of the corruption vendor for seemingly no reason which was fixed far too late) made it very annoying to just login and play the game, it also made playing alts much more difficult than it had to be. Furthermore, competitive PvP was a total joke with corruptions either randomly 1-shotting or doing nothing at all (As seen in the AWC)
I appreciate your perspective
BFA at least had good gameplay when it came to PVP open world combat etc for those that loved that kind of stuff... Shadowlands had pretty much nothing except Thorgast being on higher levels 'a bit fun' difficulty... And thats about it well i guess the adds to power was nice but sucked lore-wise and such... chinematics was good in looks... But the excecution was so horrible i almost puked at the end... Like all the undead now in Northrend, and over the world of Azeroth who's controlling them now? As far that i know... nobody isn that kinda you know... bad?
What a horrible conclusion. Makes me feel like a fool for wasting so many years defending the lore.
The lore is AMAZING. Don t be mistaken by their bad writing
@@DiabloTommaso As someone with a lot more patience for the kind of cosmic lore they're diving into, it's uninspired a lot of the time
Yes.
@@DiabloTommaso At a certain point the story would start to hurt the lore, which is what Shadowlands did as far as i can tell.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Oh Shadowlands is a masterclass on how not to write a story.
"I expect nothing, and I'm still let down" - Dewey
“I set my expectations low and you brought a shovel”
Honestly I am still really peeved at how they did Arthas dirty that when I saw this shit I was like "Yea this makes sense of course there is another baddie out there wtf not". I remember spending hours on wikis and similar sites and watching lore videos on youtube back in its early days during the WOTLK xpac to get to know more about this lich king that everyone was hyped about. The Hero to Villain journey of Arthas was some of the most interesting story telling I had ever read, a evil King Arthur, and it was this that really got me into the WoW lore. I don't think he needed one, but If there ever was a character that truly deserved a final redemption arc, similar to medivh or Illidan, it should have been Arthas, letting his spirit come to terms with what he had done, helping us in some way, and moving on, but instead they gave everything that Arthas should have gotten to Sylvanus because the lead writers can't stop simping for her for some effing reason. She was a cool character at one point but the damage to her has been done, just accept it, give her a graceful death at least , and move on. This has completely severed any lingering interest that I had left in this game's lore because the current writers keep thinking that they can write something better and want people to stop focusing on the old lore and more on the new shiet they keep spewing out.
I'm tired of every expac being "Well. None of that matters. Here's what does."
they have killed Sylvannas in SL, her body just didn't realized it. after this "it never actually was Sylvannas, who did literaly everything from the point after Arthas raised her, but the Banshee Queen" clusterfire they pulled off... that's legit charakter assasination. no moraly grey or doing evil things for the cause to save my people. no personal bias vs Arthas, there is nothing left. the last time blizzard ruined a something so hard was with WC3 reforged.
Blizzard has been simping over Kerri-I mean Sylvanas for over twenty years, it's not new in the slightest. Of course Sylvanas was going to get a dumb redemption arc, they gave Kerrigan a dumb redemption arc ten years ago.
not sure if it's simping, more like they don't give a flying fuck about the legacy and are just there to write what they told is good for the business. the original story behind wow was strong because it was enthusiasm behind it not a billion dollar blood sucking corporation.
You're right. They don't respect the old lore that is rich in detail and connects an interesting character development. These days it's like the writers do a massive turd on the table and show it off.
Eighteen years, eight expansions and countless dungeons, raids and quests later, and... This. This is the culmination of every single step we have taken as players. This is the end point of our story so far. And this is what we get. An entirely unimaginative, unbelievable, unimpressive mess of writing that does nothing besides stroke itself on the pretentiousness it conveys. This is the best they could do? This is their masterpiece? A keystone on an entire chapter of Warcraft?
In a way, it amuses me that Arthas and his story is a very good representation for Blizzard. A simple start with a good life equating to Warcrafts 1-3. A sudden rise in ambition for the greater good of their people as him grabbing Frostmourn and slaying a previously unstoppable foe in his way, the start of World of Warcraft. Killing his father under the control of something else as when Blizzard was acquired by Activision, arguably when the company lost its soul forever. A struggle for power and to keep control of the vision as his rise to Lich King, only to completely lose his will and soul in the fight. The fall of the Lich King in his expansion being the new surge of people into the company with new ideas and ambitions, eager to prove themselves. And then, with Arthas' soul finally being given peace in such a lackluster and entirely contrived way, we have the death of the last of Blizzard's true soul fading into the darkness as well. Such a waste.
I mean...have you seen Blizzards writing team now? What did you expect?
Its kinda interesting though as FF14, Gw2 and WOW all concluded their major story arcs and i have to say, wow pulled the short one of the three.
It's a video game. You knew it was always a waste of time
So much untold on azeroth, and they keep adding realms planes other universes like who the hell cares
@@Putrescence420 In that context i kinda love what they did in FF14 in end walker. One of the final quotes of Emet "Even of your little Eorzea, you know precious little." The feeling that while we crossed stars and even other worlds...there is still more in front of the door.
Reading through that interview with Christie Golden I realized why the story didn't resonate with me and hasn't for ages. She said: “I have two driving questions that always fuel my writing: What makes good people do bad things? And how is it that some people survive and get up and keep fighting while others don’t? Those have always intrigued me."
Which is fine... but pretty much THE question any character should be asking is 'what do I want?' What are their goals? Do they want to avenge their father's death by a 6 fingered man? Find a priceless religious artifact and keep it out of Nazi hands? Protect the mother of a future leader from an unstoppable robot? Most good stories establish the characters' wants pretty early and allow them to either achieve or fail to achieve their goals.
Wow characters are... largely passive. They react. They barely ever instigate. Sylvanas is resurrected which turns her evil. She plots then, suddenly, the role of Warchief is thrust on her. She seems to hate the horde and the role, abandoning both to serve an interdimensional dude. Who she belatedly realizes is an asshole. That asshole forces her soul back in her body. Then Uther comes and helps her come to terms with the process. Lastly she (and others) 'confront her trauma' and see Arthas for the sad weak little cloud he always was. Speak to that past hurt.
In none of this does she have an established 'want'. Nor does she really work to achieve anything. She's killed. A mysterious force makes her become the warchief. Her soul isn't regained by her own actions, it's forced back into her body. At the end of this entire story I couldn't really tell you what she (or Anduin or Thrall or anyone tbh) is after. Beyond scrabbling to stop the latest big bad.
That is a excellent brake down, I think the only thing Sylvanas ever wanted was revenge on Arthas and that was when she was interesting because as you pointed out it was a 'want' that drove her.
She can get the answers to those questions by playing FF14 LUL
Hell...not to mention the mysterious force that made her warchief practically turned into a one-off dungeon boss.
I mean...she said she wanted true freedom from fate I guess??
Also "What makes good people do bad things?" - Warcraft answer: Mind control... Another thing that makes characters passive as plot simply happens to them :/
The expansion just ended and we STILL dont know why the jailor did what he did, not really.
Thinking back to the least developed, some may say dumber villain: Deathwing, I would say we knew everything we needed about him to make it work. He wanted to destroy the world. Why? Old gods and the hour of twilight corrupted him and made him believe they were inevitable. Just by playing the game, you knew this. We had a dungeon where we could actually see what the hour of twilight meant to the world.
The Jailor is 1000 times dumber than our previously "worse villain".
I still love deathwing btw.
Makes me sad. Maybe the leak to the dragon isles is they going back to the dragon aspects so they can ruin the story from cata too.
He wanted to destroy the universe to stop the next expansion's villain from destroying the universe.
Logic.
The good ol' dragon boi flying over certain areas saying "The sun has set on this mortal world fools, make peace with your end, for the hour of twilight falls" or some shit
@shingshongshamalama the Jailer punishes us because he loves us
Chances are he was sending to many souls to recendreth good people and bad people to extract all the anima he could to empower death. Sending all the good people to "just" afterlives did not give the shadowlands anima
So, it ended up being "Zoval All Along!"? Did he also kill Sparky, too?
For me, Warcraft ended with Legion. That was a proper sendoff. Most of the game's lore was centred around the Burning Legion and we ended up beating them. Not just beating them back, but ending them. Destroying what made them so infinite, and putting Sargeras into a prison he shouldn't be able to escape. Legion wrapped up the storylines of so many major characters (or at least had them retire and pass on their "status" to others, including our characters). We went from being nameless grunts, adventurers, and warriors in the shadows of these characters that have been part of the story since the start, to being as "legendary" as they are (ish) by becoming the heads of our respective class orders. That would've been a good point to wrap up WoW as it exists now, whether the lore continues on at a later time (like an in-game time skip to give us some distance from Azeroth as we know it) or whether it just ends indefinitely.
But nope, we went from crafted lore with decades of backstory and world building, with villains that would come in and out of the story, in what would help build the bigger narrative; to a villain-of-the-week format where anything goes because who cares, the next expansion will just show there was all yet another level of supreme beings above the ones we knew, with one of them having betrayed the others and started manipulating everything we've known so-far. Everything we've fought for, all those who died along the way, means absolutely fuck all in the grand scheme of things because everyone was manipulated into a particular path.
I think the best response to this would have been to have had 8.0 focused around Azeroth dying and us all working to try to repair the wounded world while unscrupulous agents on both sides worked against us to mine her blood in order to build weapons. They could have introduced neat mechanics like maybe a server-wide azerite level, so that at certain points, special world bosses, events, and other fun and unique happenings would have come around, requiring players to face them down. Once one of these events was triggered, a counter would start. If the event wasn't faced down in that amount of time, then it would get stronger and trigger new events in nearby zones. If players didn't respond to them in time, then hubs could have been taken over entirely and lost until players got in to fight back.
During the expansion, we could have gotten hints that all of these adversarial actors were actually being coordinated in some way, which would lead to the reveal that N'Zoth was behind it all, and had been orchestrating things to provoke Sargeras into stabbing Azeroth so that N'Zoth could usurp her power and bring about the return of Nya'lotha. 8.3 could have resulted in a final battle that we actually lose, with N'Zoth winning and Nya'lotha being summoned into existence on Azeroth, and with Khadgar (or Chromie) whisking us away as N'Zoth is about to destroy us and taking us to a safe refuge - either another world or magical sanctuary (if it had been Khadgar) or possibly someplace in the past or future (if Chromie).
This would have opened the door for 9.0 to be us gathering our forces in our hidden sanctuary and then launching strikes back across Azeroth to liberate enslaved populations from N'Zoth's influence, as well as key sources of Azeroth's power. Bit by bit, little by little, we manage to cleanse Azeroth of the Old God's taint (possibly even drawing on allies we'd made during Legion, or by finding more of the Naaru or something), and led to a massive battle as we try to stop N'Zoth from resurrecting C'thun and freeing Yogg-Saron (who was still alive but trapped under Ulduar until Danuser just off-handedly commented that, yeah, he was actually dead for some reason) in order to start conquering other worlds.
It would have been stupidly over the top, but it would have been that great, fun Warcraft we all knew and loved.
Okay I'm gonna fix Zovaal
So he's the Arbiter, which is this artificial being which was created to send people into the afterlife based on vicariously experiencing their lives, essentially a sort of very complex sorting hat
This means that through no choice or desire of his own he must experience the suffering of other beings
The beings which he was created to arbitrate, ironically, enjoy some measure of free will which he himself does not have and never had; despite being a god-like being in comparison to mortals he himself was never granted a choice because he is a robot made by some higher beings who don't seem to exist anymore in like a meaningful sense
After a few eons of this he starts to resent the living; why must he persist, enduring and eternal, shackled to his role while they go on to be reincarnated or cease to exist via being double-dead or whatnot
The other faction leaders can't see it from his perspective. While they manage the dead they don't really understand them, while Zovaal, through his unique role as Arbiter, has lived ALL their lives and understands too well
He comes to believe this is unfair
Perhaps he starts with minor acts of rebellion. Sending beings to afterlives which are unsuited for them. Pacificists to Maldraxxas. Industrialists to Ardenweald. Rulers to Bastion.
From this arises their dispute between them. The other faction leaders are shocked that Zovaal, the cornerstone of their whole system, is rebelling. To them, this is unthinkable. If Zovaal fails then so too do the entire Shadowlands. He is clearly unfit for his office, he needs to be replaced with a creature which can steadfastly do its duty without having such troublesome beliefs!
So they cut out his heart and use it to make the current Arbiter, and cast Zovaal into the Maw
So now Zovaal languishes... and in his prison he comes to a conclusion: in his time as Arbiter all the problems of the living seemed to have been caused by the living.
What if the 'life' never existed? What if the laws of the reality were adjusted, just a little, so that life did not form, is not formed, and can never be formed?
Damn, that is amazing. The fact that the writing team at blizzard couldn't think of something as good as this makes me angrier.
This is really fucking solid and not only that, it's also simple and straightforward.
FFXIV ENDWALKER SPOILERS!!!
That is literally the plot of ENDWALKER
Ps. I know the ffxiv comparisons are overused but it's just an observation
@@jorgevaldez1859 Yeah now I look at it I guess it is :x
I think the resentment angle is more something like an Allied Mastercomputer but I guess all these baleful construct stories end up similar :x
They couldn't do this because this requires actual thought. They copy paste the same story and script over and over again becayse it's easy and makes money. Deviating fom that requires risk and potential loss of money. Once you realise every decision they make is to be safe to what they have done before in order to keep a specific income being generated all of their decisions seem very obvious.
I'm hoping for a Dallas "it was all a dream" moment.
That would just be the greatest relief of the year. If you just select all Shadowlands files and half of BfA and press backspace the game suddenly becomes twice as good.
Honestly, this is how I'm going to view BFA and SL. Gonna pretend that this shit show was all a dream.
It’s never going to happen because that would be Blizzard admitting to their mistakes. They’re going to double down if anything.
I get your point but you still stuck with the current writers. That’s why I am critical of the “they need to end it and make WoW 2.0” argument. Do you really want the people that wrote SLs story or designed Azerite armor to create a new mmo?
Wow you've dated yourself... But you're 100% right
I'm still a bit sad they just though to kill off Arthas this way, a character that literally took the IRL world by storm, the man who kept people entertained for years, a legend in my eyes, sad they just disenchanted the guy to give 35 anima.
One of the most iconic characters in video game history. His face was plastered EVERYWHERE in 2008-10. And they did this to him.....
Yeah im super annoyed he got no lines just a ball of light and fades out.
This Dev team can't hold a candle to the one that brought that masterpiece era of WoW into being. So the easiest way to make your mark is by destroying what someone else built up.
@@Daemos66 that's the modern way of making a name for yourself. It's everywhere in the entertainment business.
youre killing me, 35 anima hahaha
Denathrius should have just been the main villain, he was WAY more compelling and I actually felt invested in most of his arc.
I've been a fan of Warcraft lore and games since Orcs and Humans in 1993. I played WoW from 2004 until 2021. Shadowlands killed it for me. I simply don't care anymore. The show runners of GoT are effectively blacklisted in Hollywood, they lost Star Wars and multiple other projects by their butchering of GoT season 8. I strongly feel that the same response should happen to the decision makers at Blizzard that gave us this narrative travesty.
If you here, you care bro!!
Are you going to give them a another oportunity in dragonflight? It seems that it would be a soft lore reset... but I can be wromg
What Bellular said about severing the emotional bonds is so true! Even when I was bored out of my mind playing WoW in WOD or BFA, I still came back because I still had a connection with the characters and history. But now, after this dogshit expansion, I quit and have no intention of coming back because I don't have that connection anymore and I don't want to stick around to see them completely wreck characters that I have grown up with and come to care about. I was willing to give 10.0 a chance, but after this dogshit ending, no way that's happening because I fundamentally lost my trust in the creative team to respect the previous lore and do it justice. From now on, in my mind, Legion was the finale of the WoW story, BFA was an epilogue to hastily wrap up certain storylines, and Shadowlands and beyond is fanfiction that has no bearing on Warcraft lore.
Hypetrain is coming with 10.0 on board....just to derail few months after expansion premiere like it was with Shadowlands :)
I quit back last June, uninstalled WOW. No way to save this. The WOW I knew and loved is dead.
@@nicholasoutland2396 good call. im in because of my guild, on to clear one last HC dungeon and i guess that will be it. the blizzard team doesnt know how to write proper lore anymore
Everyone who quits is one good cinematic away from a resub 😂
Ok bai
I hate the "I wanted to unite everyone against a larger threat" trope, because they never just _tell people about the larger threat part._ You don't have to commit genocide to "prepare people for a coming threat," you just tell them about that threat, and help to bring them _together_ to fight it. You don't kill off half the people in the hopes that this will make the remaining half stronger, you just empower BOTH halves.
Exactly. the "I wanted to unite everyone against a larger threat" trope works if we can empathize with the character. If we see them constantly trying to warn everyone and attempting to bring the world together to fight the true evil, and only after being ignored do they take matters into their own hands (Eren in AoT) its a good trope. But yeah overused and blizz sucks ass at shadowlands story holy crap.
Agreed. I'd even go as far as to say that the "Cosmos divided will fail" reasoning is a contradiction to his actions. Hard to stand behind that thought when we never knew his reasoning, just that he reasoning was in some way aligned with Sylvanus', so until now it was just "I'm tearing the universe down because the universe is wrong", but if the division was all that was wrong...why would you tear it down and create something new and unhardened by time and conflict?
Based on his newly revealed "drive", this threat can't be even on the horizon from the perspective of an immortal, because the whole point of some of the conflict between the cosmic powers is to battle harden its defenses...aka, Maldraxus. Even if this isn't all a contradiction, it's definitely tripping over its own feet.
Just to add though, I think it is implied that his final line is him repeating what he said before his banishment, meaning that he did eventually warn the other Eternal Ones that something bad was coming, but all of them dismissed it, except Denathrius, who decided to keep it to himself, just like Zovaal did. He is so poorly written that he broke the characters that weren't poorly written.
WoW has been super consistent in having plot holes due to people not talking to each other. Like in the kyrian campaign when you’re helping to bring souls to the shadowlands and Kleia’s like oh no all of the souls are going to the maw! And our character is just sitting there like oh yeah I just forgot to let you know I guess.
@@RedesignedReality That was honestly one of the most horrifyingly glaring moments of idiocy in the campaign - "Woops, did I forget to mention that all the souls go to the Maw? Whoopsie..." That was a table-flip moment.
It's like the creators forgot about the whole plot of Warcraft III. The whole, 'there is a bigger threat coming and we must unite to survive'. Except of course, that game did it a lot better.
I died laughing at the “What is this Luke, some kind of Star War?” This storyline was sooo unsatisfying.
"What is this? Some type of Suicide Squad (tm)?"
Remembering Sylvanas saying "This world is a prison" for me is still the biggest eye roll.
Right! It made Sylvanas look like an edgy middle schooler.
Pyromancer was being vindicated at that very moment, he was having the time of his life.
- Adûnâi
So emo and goth and cool, like middle schoolers 🖤
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
Steve Danuser needs to leave. And should be known as the butcher of Warcraft.
Yeah, and I have *no* faith that Warcraft's next expansion will be any good. Because Steve Danuser HATES the original lore.
@@ArmageddonEvil and he liked S8 GoT.
Don’t forget to cut ties with the racist madeleine roux too (and delete her npc in maldraxxus on the way out)
You did it Champion... you are truly the World of Warcraft!
Every World has its Craft of War
Don't tell me about da Jailer. But tell me, champion. Did he drrop some AZERITE??
Ahahaha!! 🤣😂😆
Roll credits!
it genuinely makes me sad to see a universe I've loved for more than 20 years be destroyed
Where everything really went off the rails is when we moved from being a player in the grand narrative to being a hero. This makes our part seem less believable and less engaging. You can have a big baddy and his minions, but the counter to that is a hero supported by his allies and companions. That is a more believable and sustainable narrative, which would have required fewer if any retcons. They sacrificed the story to make everyone the hero.
It could have worked if the last expansion was Legion. Becoming the ultimate hero at the end is kind of cool consider our whole character developement. But staying the hero for several more expansions feels like crap. Imo Legion was the peak of the lore, going back to azeroth and having pirate adventures was so anticlimactic.
The phrase “my disappointment is immeasurable, my day is ruined, I have wasted 20 years of my life and have no idea what the purpose of anything anymore is” doesn’t even begin to approach describing how I feel right now.
The jailer really broke the cycle, ... of a good expansion following a bad one.
Next one is gonna be great right?.... RIGHT?!?!
Jepp.
Legion= Perfect
BfA=Meeh
Shadowlands=Disgrace
Now Worlds of Dreanor looks like a fucking masterpice, if you compared it with this shit.
@@blub1220 I was just in discussions with other fans recently about how WoD wasn't nearly as bad in hindsight. It was bad at the time, but it at least had redeeming qualities. The zones were masterful and the story at least explained itself (although retconning a ton of shit in the process.) I would go back to WoD any day of the week over playing Shadowlands for one more minute.
@@joetron333 I did like the quest experience of WoD and the PvP area. I did not like player housing. I feel like a guild town would have been better with a portal to a personal house.
10.0 will fix it
I can feel the pain in his voice. A universe, 20 years+ in the making, undone.
Honestly, if I was a high level Blizzard exec, I would play your "The Future" chapter of this video as the opening to a big board meeting and then simply ask "What the absolute fuck are we doing?".
Truly unbelievable how criminally incompetent they are. When you're legitimately reaching the point where you could pick a random player and they'd have a solid shot at writing a better expansion plotline than what they came up with, they need to start fearing for the future of their IP.
this is why you aren't a high level blizzard exec.
@@Rtw111 yeah, brown nosers do get ahead in dying companies
I can only imagine Pyromancer's reaction to this if he was still covering the lore full time. Holy fuck he would go full supernova
Oh hes undoubtedly going to watch it and i look forward to the clip.
I think in this point he just don’t care . It’s only approve his last video that the lore is shit .
I miss Pyro's speculation so much it was so cool to watch and get thinking about the potential about the lore.
“Lore is what you know. Story telling is what you feel.” I feel like this should be a quote posted everywhere for anyone who is making content nowadays
20:53 thats it man, the grounded fantasy were we just fought the zombies that was amazing, there was no need to explain everything till the very end
Man, I remember reading through The Chronicle and finding Me'dan entry listed on the page 404. That was a good laugh on a character we all thought was the worst thing that happened with Warcraft lore across the years.
After witnessing the end of the brave new direction BfA took us and culminating in THIS, I do pine for those halcyon days.
In a way, Zovaal succeeded in his plan, for the warcraft setting and by definition the universe, has forever been changed by him
lmao
Oof
No.
I get that Steve Danuser inherited the burning of Teldrasil and so was forced in to a corner slightly but that was bfa pre patch. Him and the writing team had bfa, post bfa, pre shadowlands, shadowlands and post shadowlands to get themselves out of a position that apparently they didn't want to be in and they couldn't do it.
Saying next expansion is Steve Danusers baby is complete copium. We are still left with so many dangling threads that calling it the end of a chapter is laughable at best, dishonest and deceptive at worst.
always seek someone to blame your bad work i guess.
All of bfa could have been about ways to rebuild what was lost and find a safe haven for night elves.
The next expansion being Steve's baby is only Copium if you view it that way. From my perspective, 10.0 being Steve's baby is a flag so red that photographs cannot pick up how red it is and you have to see the pigmentation in person to fully experience the color.
@@TheMeGuy1 lmao
@@TheMeGuy1 i feel that!
I remember playing in Legion watching Accalon and Pyromancer and listening to their theories. If only 1/10th came true of what they said, the story would be dope as hell. Instead we got "nO YoU don't unDErStAnD, i aM gOoD GuY.
Feel that they're slowly going towards the kerrigan 2.0 story arc for slyvanas. Universe comes to end and it's remade in her ideal image.
23:23 you missed the 10mins of taliesin shouting at his chat for being "idiots" for not liking the cinematic, redder than a tomato from how much he was fuming, and being forced by his wife to stop streaming because his shouting was making their baby cry.
Are you serious? If true, then wow. No wonder I stopped watching their stuff.
I had to go back and watch this because of your comment, it was just as entertaining as I hoped
@@Frozen_Death_Knight Yeah i too stopped watching them years ago. I even blocked their channel on YT suggestions.
Where can we see this?
@@huxleyable last vod on his twitch channel, last 10mins aka 4:14:58 timestamp
"This is what they butchered 20 years of lore for."
I honestly just don't know how I feel about wow anymore. To see everything that was once good about the lore now mean little to fuck all. It genuinely hurts.
I've been a hardcore player, rper, and questor since the beginning. I feel betrayed by this last patch.
I can honestly say I've been ride or die for many years, through the good times and the really bad, but I am left with a hollow feeling where my blizz pride was.
The game reflects them as a company. It’s changed over time.
Especially with the scandal that came out during Shadowlands, it was hard to get into it and the number of players dropped significantly.
Shadowlands is ending with a whimper, like the end of a bad era, but now they have to come back stronger
So this entire time, the Jailer never once thought... maybe I should just tell the Pantheon about this looming threat coming instead of keeping it a secret? WTF....
Given that Kyrestia, The Winter Queen, and The Primus are zealots when it comes to serving the Purpose- who was he going to tell? Denathrius did listen, but like Zoval only believe by controlling other was the answer. Just like Sylvanas- she knew of the Jailer and Deaths plan to rewrite existence. Did she tell the Horde? No- she withheld that information, manipulated them and gleefully was killing of those who helped her and the Foresaken. She too believe in brutal authoritarian rule to "save" people. It beyond stupid- Death, all of them, fractured the cosmos.
Didn't they show he tried to and instead of listening they called him mad and locked him up in the Maw which wasn't originally what we see it is today. So he didn't bother continuing to convince them afterwards.
@@eternallegacy89 well the end cinematic showed he really didn't. Primus literally asks "Why Zooval", how much more clear can that be?
@@ArlongSun Where was this shown in the actual game? If it was, was it made clear to players?
@@ZivineYT Nothing was show in the game. I was piecing together Blizzards stupid reasoning "Well of course he told no one, cause Zoval was so uber smart to piece together and eons long plan in secrete cause his brother and sister were so mean to him!" The did show Kyrestia being dumb and not listing to her own people. The WQ could not be be bother to listen to the Champion. Denathrius did listen and went off plotting in the dark. And now the Primus did hear his reasoning and still jailed him. It is BS that Zoval did not reach beyond the Patheon. It is BS that the only way Zoval could save us all is thru domination.
WoW has quite literally been my life from Vanilla until WoD and now, TBC classic. Watching this cinematic, I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. What a monumental feat, to destroy a world other people built for almost two decades in less than four years. WoW will quite literally be never the same after this cataclysmic failure of a story. 20 fucking years down the drain man, I'm actually mad.
I watched Asmon's reaction and I was blood boiling mad with it. Wtf is going on. I don't get it.
We all fell ya. 20 years of emotional investment just wasted. All because the people in power wanted to fuck around and harass their employees, and the guy on top wanting to horde his billions. It's been in decline for years, now they're just so bold as to outright not give a shit. I feel they knew suckers would buy the game regardless of what they did. They could shit on a floppy disk and millions would line up on launch day.
I hope they see now that they're no longer the only game in town. People have discovered other games during their time unsubbed. I doubt they will ever get a lot of those subs back.
Not to be "that guy" but FF14 really is stepping up to the plate. They're offering a much more narrative true experience and friendlier atmosphere to their players. I have to give them credit for that.
Ok bai
Look at all the lore boys xd. My dudes lore startwd sucking after w3
@@Undertaker257 Dumbest fucking take I've ever heard and a supermassive cope, holy fuck.
"Sort this shit out, this cannot last.."
Man, that last desperate plea hit me hard, well done Bellular.
And then we got Dragonflight's writing. Which is JUST as bad. The only difference is that it's not ruining OG lore as much as it slouches along the floor, leaving a trail of excrement. :(
Thank you for this video! The last part when you sum everything up was cathartic for me. Its what i have been telling people for years. The fact you have a platform and can voice it here is so nice.
Zoval is an absolutely awful villain. He's flat, lifeless, and completely forgettable. That being said the reason for this does not inherently have anything to do with Zoval believing he was working for the greater good. This is literally the basis for all good villains. If they didn't think they were working for the greater good they would just be an evil Saturday morning cartoon villain. It's the basis for the Ascians in FFXIV. Every good villain thinks what they are doing is right.
The problem here is they did not build this character trait into Zoval from the very beginning. They didn't make us give a single shit about this villain or his motivations so when he just brought up "the greater good" right at the very end there it didn't mean anything and fell as flat as the character himself.
Having an evil character doing what they believe to be "the greater good" is a tale as old as time, and a great way to build a villain with more than a single dimension. Blizzard did not utilize this very well, or really at all, with Zoval. His character is a mirror of the Shadowlands story as a whole. Good basis for ideas not executed well at all.
Zovaal is Blizzard trying to do Emet-Selch.
@@Maria_Erias Which would have been fine if they wrote him to be even half as interesting as Emet-Selch.
@@jonimated That's exactly my point. Emet-Selch was an amazing character with understandable and relatable motivations and led to a truly magnificent story arc (I mean, anyone who didn't love That Moment when Ardbert offers you the axe is just dead inside). Blizzard seems to have attempted the same thing, but just simply lacks anything like the writing chops of the Final Fantasy team. They're the 8th grader doodling fan fiction on the inside cover of their math folder compared to a best-selling novelist.
You know, if Zovaal had given players opportunities to join him willingly, hints that he knew something big and bad was coming to wreck the cosmos, it would've felt better. He needed more screentime in any case.
@@jonimated to make another comparison to Emet, when he fights you, and you win, he deigns that as you being worthy, being as good as any ascian and he comes to know that the sundered realms are actually worth saving after all. Zovaal, being beaten by "mere mortals" still, in his dying breath, believes that there's no other way, despite being convinced once before by denathrius. That should have been it, his moment to tell us what he knows in the hopes that we can succeed where he failed. Then place us in a situation where we have to turn off the ICC machines and close the shattered sky, and having a moment where we're like "but if we do this, then how do we stop the incoming storm?". Have that feeling of bittersweet hopelessness, where you've saved azeroth, but at a cost you can't yet fathom.
THAT is how you make characters interested in your story. Alighting their curiosity due to decisions they made willingly.
Welp this happens when the guy who created the world and all it's stories leaves and you're too greedy to pay a reasonable salary for a new talent. Denuser has to go, so do Hazikostas and co.
These two are largely responsible for killing this game.
Hazzikostas should go back to designing raid encounters. Let's be honest, the raids are always good
@@someguy3508 and he is responsible for most of the shitty (system) designs since he took over during Legion. (7.2 is when his influence really started)
@@jiffah I am willing to bet that it's not entirely his fault. They prob got a lot of shit from activision and their superiors. That dude keeps on lying in interviews. Conduit energy was a discussion for so long, which is retarded in the face of it. Idk if Ion is responsible for all of this but they gotta change things up. SL was a straight embarrassment
@@someguy3508 perhaps but at a certain point, if you are the game director you have to be responsible for it. It comes with the job.
Great video, thank you Bellular for voicing our outrage in a clear and concise manner. Many would get caught up in their emotions and unfortunately I feel like there are some Devs at Blizzard who have that "I know better" attitude, and burst of anger only make them turn their nose up and shrug off our concerns. Whatever is the major issue at Blizzard as you said in lesser words, is poisoning the franchise many of us are endeared to.
Now those are just the fans of Warcraft Lore sure, but seeing how the in game content has been suffering for the same amount of time, and I know many who don't care about lore who have left the game. Not to mention the absolute PR blunders of recent years, World of Warcraft is in a dire state, they defuse this powder keg before it's too late.
Arthas: I was trying to unite Azeroth in undeath to fight the Burning Legion.
Sargeras: I was trying to unite the planets in the Legion to fight the Void.
Jailer: I was trying to unite the cosmos because there's something worse.
BUT WHAT IS IT! Omg probably the bosses of the void lords, the evil lords of eternal damnation and darkness.
buhuuuuuhuuu
Future villain: I was trying to unite all beings to fight the universe itself
Future future villain: I was trying to unite all pantheons to fight fate itself
Future future future villain: I was trying to unite all versions of all beings and their subsidiaries to fight super god
@@grogc6942 lmao, so true
no genuine evil villains anymore that just want to burn everything
The real evil is Bobby Kotick!
I can relate to the Jailer wanting to do this whole scheme to skip the Azerite grind.
:D lol
Fucking hell.. Im getting Game Of Thrones whiplash from this ending..
*plays "Invincible" in the background and thinking of better times*
Its been so refreshing for the last few months when I went off WoW and played some other RPGs that actually felt like covering the fantasy they try to represent properly. Wasnt even hitting me before that how grotesque wow has become with the patchy story, cosmic lore or even smaller stuff like the 100s of toys players can drop to spam.
The pattern ? A big threat coming ? Is the Maw Walker going to be transformed into a less impressive Commander Shepard to fight them off ? Find out in the next episode !
Ahh yes, Reapers
illidan in legion - there can be no chosen one. only we can save ourselves.
shadowlands - actally you are the prophesied hero who will save the shadowlands.
man i miss legion so much
I'm waiting for Legion Classic to become a thing
Tbf here, outside of the badass Trio of Velen, Illidan, and Khadgar, we were the leaders of the Class Halls lore wise and meet the Pantheon of Order at their seat by the very crucible of reality
@@preds43 Yup- we were respected allies against the Legion. BFA and SL- the Horde were tools and the Alliance victims of Sylvanas. For being the fabled Maw Walker, we had to work hard to even by acknowledged by the Death pantheon to save their own dumb asses. We became passive character is Sylvanas plot.
Champion!
Honestly, I feel like they should just scrap the last two expansions and start over. There is no shame in it. They could even do some time walker B.S. to get out of it if need be, but just get out of it. The only reason I say that over just make better stuff next season is that I don't want future stories to be bogged down trying to fix old plot points or feel the temptation to continue down their paths. They're bad from the ground up. Cut off the gangrenous tissue.
no need for timewalker stuff, the evil god from last expansion nzoth or whatever gave us a "gift" that was just never talked about again.
just say "hey we are in his fake reality and hes taken over azeroth just like he wanted, it was all a dream so it wasnt real" and then we move on!
@@feralforlorn its sad, but they actually need to do just this 😅
This is where we need a WoW 2.0 what FF did. But in order to do that, get rid of the current writers.
"There is no shame in it."
Yeah, that part is just a big lie from you. The internet as a whole would be making fun of them/this action if they did it.
@@FrozzenK The internet is already making fun of their current story, so even if that was the case, it would not be different. :^]
This is the setup for a Sargeras redemption arc.
Edit: We go back to azeroth after 9.2.5 and suddenly we're back at the 10 hour war. The Gates of AQ are opening. It was all C'thun showing us a possible future. Everyone got bug brain. Praise snakeman.
If they went to explain this in a cinematic... it would need to be a movie.
Or they will produce a novel to explain the whole mess.
i still maintain that denathrius should have been the main vilan cus hes the only one that managed to do fucking anything, and he was at least slightly interesting and fun with his sas, in comparsion soval was like a 2x4 boring and standerd
At least the Nathrezim threat was one that had been hinted at consistently, and introducing their leader wouldn't take anything away from the other stories like this narrative did. But this expansion was like "you know the Lich King? Well our villian is him but bigger." Great, excellent storytelling.
The motivation of practically every WoW villain since Wrath: I will conquer the entire world/universe, but I'm actually doing it to unite everyone and save you from the real badguy!
Arthas + Lich King retcon (to get us ready for the Legions invasion)
Wrathion - Twice (MoP and WoD) (Also to get us ready for the Legions invasion)
Sargeras (To get us ready for the Voidlords)
Sylvanas + Jailor (To get us ready for the Voidlords, presumably)
When will this stupid motivation end? Stop.
Am like 100% certain it's not the Void Lords. Prolly something far beyond that...
Didn't Kiljaeden personally create the Lich King by transforming the orc Shaman Ner'Zuhl into a spirit trapped inside a suit of armor? And didn't Arthas himself build Icecrown Citadel, you know from all of that Saronite he mined?
Sylvannas certainly set me free... They managed to take something I've loved for most of my life, and turn it to something I feel almost nothing but contempt for..
I now just wait for Taliesin to try to prove to us that we're all wrong and that this ending to Shadowlands is actually fantastic.
With Soulsobreezy right behind him.
I hope he can find enough polish for this turd.
That would require lethal amounts of copium, no one could survive such a dosage!
@@KLGChaos Yeah that guy would eat turd pies they gave him at maximum
Cost.
Wouldn't the Jailer have made a much more compelling villain if when we arrived in the Maw, the Jailer greets us, tells us what the "big cosmic threat" is, tells us what he intends to do to combat it. Says he would like our assistance, but tells us he wants us to explore the Shadowlands and decide for ourselves, then escorts us to the portal to Oribos and says a polite goodbye? Even if eventually we come to the conclusion that he is wrong, or is right about the threat, but there is a better solution than remaking reality, it would at least have gave him some depth, other than mustache twisting one dimensional villain he ended up being.
I think mustache twisting villains would be offended to be compared to Zovaal. At least most of them are so cartoonishly evil that they're entertaining.
somehow Captain Grim's Jailer had more personality in a couple minutes than we ever received in-game over the course of a year
That sounds awesome
So... pretty much what happens in FFXIV's Shadowbringers expansion. :D
@@ryujin8754 even before we understood his intentions and history; Fandaniel was a lot more "fun" of a villain than the Jailer ever was.
The way the jailer describes and feels about everything in the end is so similar to other xpac endings where the villain is doing whatever they can to defeat or prepare for the new big bad we have yet to realize. So void lords? In his final moments he wasn’t filled with rage or confusion, but disappointment and sadness hinting that we will all not survive what’s coming next. As shitty as the ending was you feel for the robot who destroyed all of our lore xD
Watching the turbines spin up in the forge of souls was actually a pretty cool moment for me. That was about the end of it though. lol I actually like when old lore can be contextualized better so long as it doesn't spit in the face of what came before it. This definitely was not one of those times....
Some said that WoW's recent story/lore was being written by a 10-years old kid. Not true. A kid could write something far more interesting than this!
Something I feel like the wow team doesn't understand is that a new threat doesn't need to be bigger.
A threat is a threat.
Let's say you fight a karate black belt and win, that doesn't mean you are immune from being knocked out by every single karate brown belt and below in the world.
A smaller threat can still destroy you if you don't face it.
They could very well make a new and interesting expansion with a much lesser threat if it's well written.
How far up do we have to go to find enemies? We will eventually fight God himself like this.
And like. Warcraft is pretty high power as fantasy universes go, but... we have swords. An interdimensional demon army lead by a planet-sized god being is already enough of a bigger threat. They just... can't stop escalating, well beyond anything you could conceivably fight.
@@basedeltazero714 they are totally going for the "dragon ball" route , where powerscalling went bonkers after a while. Dragon ball bought out other universe when they ran out of things to scale in the original universe, it would seem like the warcraft team is doing something similar.
@@yslei2855 it honestly really does astound me that writers are still actively making the mistake of 'power creep.' In the last 20 years alone there's been so much media to learn from about how unsustainable it is. How is it some randoms on the internet can see it but the professionals still somehow can't?
This is the typical Hollywoodian bullsheit of the bigger the better after each sequel.
I was thinking about it, like how could they make the next enemy even worse then the jailer?
The Jailer had the mental capacity and cunning to plan out everything from his imprisonment all the way to his release, and his goal was literally to unmake reality.
How are they possibly going to make the next BBEG even worse then that without just straight up making them impossible to defeat?
Its sad to see everyone to see everyone just completely defeated after seeing the expansion finale, especially when they could have salvaged things to some degree
The whole retcon of "The Jailer was really behind it all!" is like if Marvel waited to even hint at the existence of Thanos until Infinity War.
I can’t wait for tali and ev to tell us how incredible the cinematic was and how we’re all too stupid to understand blizzards superior story telling methods.
Either T&E refuse to understand other perspectives or they are hard shills if they keep defending the story at this point.
The real sh*t show is them eating the poop pies WoW keeps sending them... Obviously! Haha... They are nobb suckers to the highest degree.
This reminds me of Captain Grim's skit about everybody having a super duper secret plan in Shadowlands
I heard from a friend who has some friends in thr company that a lot of the issues with the story telling this expansion came from the internal Strife at the compay. A lot of the Elune and Tyrande stuff was removed after two of the writers were quietly fired. Leaving the rest of the team to stich togethet the bad narrative
Are you telling us that the expansion story isn't written BEFORE the release of the expansion?
"lore is what you know, storytelling is what you feel" love this
The current writers simply hate the game, they should go write for something they like instead.
why do that? they already have secure paychecks.
they like to hate though
At the end of each expansion they MAKE UP some bigger threat.
In Legion Xalatath or someone else said :
U should hurry and defeat the fallen titan cuz a bigger threat is on the way ( I'm paraphrasing ).
In B.F.A Sylvanas said death will claim u all.
And now Zovaal says this crap....
they literally turned the helm of domination into a questing green... this sums of all of shadowlands.
The jailer did all this for the reason that he either learned about the threat of the Abyss that would swallow both the great beyond darkness and the Dark Lands, or he learned about another threat, but I think it was the Abyss.
Zovaal could not tell anyone about anything because he could know how they would react to this, and therefore he could try to solve everything quietly and on his own, secretly from everyone, until it no longer matters. But all the leaders of the Covenant found out what he was up to and eliminated him, which Zovaal knew from the very beginning.
In the case of Sargeras, he himself told everything to his brothers and sister, hoping for help and understanding, but did not receive it and then killed them all, and in the case of Zovaal, he knew that it was impossible to tell anyone, and yet the brothers and sisters revealed him and in in some sense, it was THEY who eliminated him, not HE them, as it was with Sargeras.
Zovaal as an Arbiter, after many ages of his duty, could understand that the best way to save all things from the all-consuming threat of the Void Lords would not be faith in living beings, in their intelligence and their potential (which they never use correctly) but submission all sentient beings to Zovaal's own will, in order to control their minds in order to control their bodies and thoughts, so that in the end they do what Zovaal needs to protect them all from oblivion from the Void Lords.
Zovaal could understand that to rely on mortals and believe in their potential - to educate them, to direct them in the right direction is simply pointless, not all mortals will understand why it is necessary to do this or something else, not everyone will want to follow the right paths and ways to achieve success in something, besides, many just want power, etc., so in a sense, the "divided space" really will not stand against the common threat.
That is why Zovaal wanted to subordinate all living life and souls to his will, not only to more successfully defeat the coming devouring of the abyss, but also to save the bodies and, most importantly, the souls of mortals in integrity, so that later they would again quietly exist, for Zovaal would return control over them to them. themselves after the threat is defeated
You know? The funniest part of this ending with Zovaal secretly being the good guy fighting off a bigger threat is that Sylvanas turned against him and told no one about his true motivations nor the bigger threat as though she's already prepping to join her new bigger, evil-er sugar daddy next expansion.
They better fkin retire Sylvanas. I am so sick of her voice, her model, her everything. Next expansion better not have a single moment of Sylvanas, but she's probably Blizz's hard-on "sTrOnK fEmAlE" so they won't get rid of her.
"Just as planned."
- Sylvanas (probably)
IF they told me 'you've been asleep in the old god's nightmares this whole time and nothing that happened in the last few expansions happened I honestly would welcome it. >_>" They can't fix this mess, I don't think they have the writers to fix it.
Reminds me of that old story about the old lady who insisted the world was carried on the back of a turtle, and when asked what was under the turtle claimed it was "turtles all the way down".
WOW seems to be Greater Scope Threats all the way down.
15:00 Two threads from one patch in this expansion alone prove a patch was cut. Helya's presence was felt in 9.1 in the Desmotaeron area of the Maw: she had tentacles everywhere, mates and children of Guarm, and Maldraxxi defectors who had conversations about Vyraz and Helya's alliance. The other issue is the disappearance of Denathrius during the CoD questline and they mystery of his current whereabouts.
I am thoroughly convinced 9.2 was supposed to be a raid dealing with Helya (and possibly Denathrius again, supported by his Dreadlords this time) and that Ve'nari would have played a big role in it. I also believe there were supposed to be other reveals during this cut content patch involving the Primus and the Winter Queen. Namely, who they really are beyond their titles. Denathrius and Kyrestia also have titles (Sire and Archon, respectively), but we are never told the names of the other two, *only* their titles. That's bugged me from the beginning.
Can't wait for Taliesin to defend the ending/cinematic. Lecture us all on why it's actually brilliant and intelligent and we just don't understand it.
He has to, his whole channel depends on it. He can't afford to tell the truth about WoW.
I agree... He would eat a poop sandwich straight from WoW's arse.
Hey now, Taliesin is smart, capable and talented, just like Danuser, and they're both trying so very hard to make sure everyone knows it
The worst cinematic, story telling I’ve experience in wow since vanilla I’ve never been hurt more by a game then wow. How they did Arthas and his story actually pains me I was so emotionally invested in his character and now it’s like they stepped all over him
well it doesnt matter does it? People are still gonna play WoW, people are still gonna buy the WoW token, people are still gonna buy the expansions and eat up Blizzards slop for the next 20 years. Oh yea, and blame Final Fantasy for ruining WoW and causing so much negativity btw, its all Final Fantasy's fault!!!! Why? IDK, IT JUST IS OK! I FUCKING LOVE WOW HELL YEA!
The moment they kill off arthas thats the biggest turning downhill point in wow lore
" I’ve never been hurt more by a game then wow". Holy fuck do I resonate with that, part of me just wants them to stop making the game so I don't have to see this happen anymore. At this point we cant even get closure for this shit because it's still happening.
Your final points about ybarra really hit home - I hope that he's going to watch all of this feedback and slap the shit out of this team!
Plot twist, Zovaal was just a pawn, he tought he was in control but actually he was in Pantheons control, with Sargeras as a leader.
Can't wait for Taliesin to try to explain how "deep" this ending really is and that we just dont understand blizzardz brilliant storytelling.
Now THAT, I’m looking forward to 🤣
Lol. He has to cause he wants to have his connections. I used to listen to him until I saw how he responded to someone who called him out on the difference between goal and motivation.
I used to love his content. But he’s actually kind of pathetic. He trie to seem like he’s I both sides, by making fun of some aspects of the lore. But then he also makes videos of why dumb story elements are deep, and most people just don’t understand it.
He’s definitely one of those content creators who knows they can’t survive without Warcraft content, unlike Asmon, Bellular, Preach, Pyromancer, or any other content creator who left WoW. But he probably could. Like, I used to like him before he started making videos calling WoW fans dumb for misinterpreting Sylvannas and that she’s actually a good character still.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
If he totally shits on it, which I don't think he will, I'm soooo coming back here buddy to watch you eat your words! ;-P
You know that Blizzard created a total disaster when we can all look at scenarios and say "I could have written a better story", you describe what you would have done, and we all nod and say "Yeah, that would have been better!"
Called this from the very beginning. As soon as they announced they were introducing the realm of death, and that it was one among many, I knew they were convoluting and watering down their lore to the point of nonsense and contradiction.
I know plenty disagree, but BFA was, in a lot of ways, the heart of World of Warcraft. It was grounded in Azeroth, and was essentially about the war between the Alliance and the Horde.
True but it was the end were it became crazy af again.
you could even write it that he divided the cosmos so they arm up with the backthought in mind that a united cosmos would lose all need for warcraft and would only focus in his arms developement in suppress uprisings and sheperd civilians. he hold cosmic forces in a ethernal conflict but hold them in place from destroying each others with plans in place to just unite them under his banner in the right moment when he sees fit the nathrezin would be a perfect tool for this with maybe an means with the runes to corrupt n,zoth partialy bind him to hi will to have a part of his cult networks as a means to stay up to date. would be a rewrite of the dark portal dungeon just with agency behind it.
I feel like the Jailer was incidental to the retconning/ruining of WoW's lore: the problem is Blizz decision makers pushing rushed, lazy stories without taking time to set up characters or events that we care about. It's standard corporate thinking: strip mine the resources you have (existing lore) for short term gains (saving time on making new story) without worrying about the long term effects because you, the Blizz decision maker, can always move on to a new company once the IP is dead. The Jailer is a symptom, not the problem.
This was rushed? I mean measuring patch cycles theuve had more total time than most expansions.
@@vanyel_etc8695 add into account covid, add into account the intercompany shit show, the protests, the low morale, everything. They've had time, but the best people have not had the freedom to act how and where they needed. Just look at Activision's ruining of call of duty, its the same rigorous structure of development that is causing the issues. Creatives don't function on strict yearly releases like that.
And supposedly this problem will no be in existence next year pending US/EU regulatory approvals.
Best part of the BFA cinematic was when Jaina said. “Begun, the Battle for Azeroth has”
@@defaultname7685 I clapped.
i really want the next expansion to open up with Norzdamu to have a jump start wakeup being like what a horrible nightmare and watch the imprisonment of Sargares, basically stating that war for azeroth and shadowlands being non cannon and that it was one of those many alternate timelines
Sylvanas fans are unhappy that this story belittled her trauma and butchered her motivations from before Battle for Azeroth (hell, before WotLK!), Arthas fans are unhappy that he was reduced to a fading specter of evil rather than the complex tragic fallen hero he used to be, Anduin fans are unhappy that he was used as a prop for other people's redemptions rather than being allowed to have flaws and arcs of his own, Jaina fans are unhappy that she was made irrelevant despite her beloved mentor and lover both making appearances, and Zovaal fans are virtually nonexistent.
Blizzard sure knows how to please its audience, huh?
Warcraft ended with Legion.
Before even watching the video: Shadowlands should have been the "end" of a supposed long overaching story and yet this video end with a cliffhanger and don't close anything.
Asmons take on it was awesome, this was a severe chance for WoW 2.0 and Nzoth actually killed us and the whole Azeroth is different now