Look I would love the game to return to form and really be great again but at this point I'm already gone. They need to WIN ME OVER, show me why I should still care about this game. No more broken promises or broken systems - make a good game - get people raving about it - follow through with promises - show your LISTENING. IF they can do this then I'll consider coming back. Until then - better ways to spend my time and money.
Mythic Castle Nathria, as well as mythic Sanctum of Domination, were already overtuned raids with very few guilds clearing them on mythic. Most mythic raiding guilds died on mythic Council, and then on mythic Stone Legion Generals - they never even got to mythic Sire. Another huge batch of guilds died on mythic Painsmith, and then again on mythic Sylvanas. Not just guilds, but tons of players quit in general. The idea of INCREASING raid difficulty moving forward is an absurd idea. They've already alienated loads of players out there. The raider and player base is shrinking. For reference, I'm the guild master and raid leader of a mythic raiding guild. We've achieved several Cutting Edge achievements since Legion when we started pushing into that content. We achieved Cutting Edge in both Castle and Sanctum, but it was incredibly challenging and took a ton of effort. The amount of player turnover and frustration was high, specifically on a handful of fights that were either overtuned and/or poorly designed. I mentioned a few of them here. This higher level of difficulty and/or poor design is not a sustainable raiding model and will continue to push people away from the game. I fear for the future of the game I enjoy. From a managerial perspective, it's requiring more and more work to keep a mythic raid team running with decent players. The costs of this are outweighing the benefits, and there's only so long even dedicated, passionate players like myself can do this. I've been playing WoW and raiding since Vanilla, March of 2005. I've been the GM of our guild since 2007 early TBC. The game is dying due (in part) to this continued mythic raid tuning problem.
You are right. This was the reason why i stopped mythic raiding in bfa and switched only to m+. Now since SL only pvp is left. Mythic Raiding? It is just a suffering 😅
Imagine wanting difficult raiding and then complaining when the difficulty is through the roof... Although it is warranted, Blizz's idea of difficulty is one person not doing a mechanic basically game ends the attempt for this xpac soooooo
never trust them, this will be used as a time crunch/waste mechanic for SOMETHING later on. Watch them attach each raid to the weekly vault. Oh you didn't clear every synced raid? no loot!
@@Netsuko last time they showed promise of listening...they dropped BFA, then said they know whats best and dropped Shadowlands, Blizz will 100% drop the ball again and not listen (like they ignore so much of the ptr feedback they get)
I would say actively disregarding their own coverage of the massive issues and laziness of affixes to praise this decision is a pretty good example of said overdose.
Or... simply add timewalking for all previous expansions and classic via Chromie to do old stuff esp deadmines and crap for unique transmog and add in occasional challenges that are real challenges with Infinite Dragonflight invasions happening at random intervals that can even occur during a boss fight. Maybe even add this but with Timewalking + to scale it harder... imagine a Timewalking + 15 Deadmines with Infinite Dragonflight Invasions at random or a Timewalking + 9 Ulduar and maybe add the Infinite Dragonflight Invasions :-P.
While I like them experimenting they seem to still cater to the same old raiding/mythic dungeon fragment of their playerbase. I think that's odd when you are currently seeing so many competetors being successful by having a wide mix of content for everyone. They don't appreciate players, that just like easier content - locking them out from all the endgame reward systems. They should cater a lot more to this big chunk of the playerbase - people that liked spamming heroic dungeons, random battlegrounds (when premades were not common), farmed old raids for transmog and so on. The content they tried to offer to that group really failed - these weird world area quests during the N'zoth patch for example. Or the smaller world quests... starting from the time you spend to get there, navigation issues, endless unrewarding struggles against small fry and unrewarding hard bosses you have to zerg down with other players. That's not fun. They should reuse their scenario tech a lot more, create some narrative driven linear content with some meaningful encounters and rewards. But nothing big, 10 minute content instead these long dives through torghast. For WOW that really is so awesome in terms of combat gameplay, all they need to do is letting people play the game. Look at Lost Ark, they do a great job. Great soloable dungeons, chaos dungeons for the 'slaughter cannot not be spelled without laughter' moments, guardian raids for some more difficult challenge but all doable without reading guides, installing addons, spending endless time idle...
LOL successful??? Please go do me a quick favor and take a look at Twitch and YT numbers when it comes to Lost Ark, New World, and FF XIV. They are all in the bin.
I think being able to time walk mythic+ would be cool during those weekly events. try for some of your fave gear from old dungeons and have that gear become relevant. i just think it would be cool.
if i could get a chance to timewalk the WoD challenge mode for WoD to have the ability to buy the weapon transmogs that I missed out on i'd feel really good about that; as far as content for the game goes, more access for FOMO stuff is a good direction
the most memorable content droughts we had were cataclysm and W.O.D and both after the droughts we had an amazing and great expansion. I think blizzard needs to just give more time on these expansions and we as a player base need to accept some kind of drought to ensure we stop getting unfinished unrefined expansions and systems
@@Execu7ing OP literally just said 'we need to endure content droughts' so we get good expansions. I.e. no more shit expansions rushed out as a buffer before a good expansion. Good expansions take time to make...longer drought = more time making consistently good xpacs.
Ehmmm don't you remember 8.3's drought? It was the longest one, even longer than 5.4.3, and the expansion that came afterwards has been awful. Please no, simply stop making shit expansions, actually listen to the players when they give such clear feedback and take risks but be ready to revert them when they prove not to work out. No need to force content droughts, that's just failed planning
It isn't about time. It's because they don't know what player want, and they probably don't even play the game so they can't know it firsthand. Honestly, microsoft should fire every single dev and replace them with people who can actually make quality stuff quickly. This isnt 2004 anymore tech is way better, they can do stuff way faster if they werent that lazy lol. For 13€ a month +30€ for the game i expect triple the content and at least 5x times better content. No more diabolical systems and fix the graphics and clipping damnnit
I think how Timewalking has been mis-designed since its inception had resulted in the developers just automatically throwing the Mage Tower in to the "Weekend Event", because that is all that Timewalking currently is, a reoccurring temp event. Timewalking's original intent was to "help give people levelling in old content more players to play with". Unfortunately it missed that mark _immediately_ by only making it available every 2-3 weeks and for only one expansion at a time. Thankfully party sync is a thing. Timewalking should've always have been an always-on system with an occasional event to incentivise people or remind people that it's there. Extensive reworking of the badge system would be needed to give level 50+ people a reason to skip back in time every now and then outside of the event window. It's actually the same mistake that was made with Chromie Time. Being booted out at level 50 and never having the option to return to a legacy expansion once we're over level 50 seems like a huge misunderstanding of the players' desire to travel through time. If I need a time-out from the current expansion (or there is a lull) then I should be able to "time walk" where-ever and whenever I want. Hell, since the idea of 'Classic' servers being a fully authentic recreation of the original expansion doesn't last for more than a year before people start wishlisting adjustments and "seasonal variations", I would even argue that Timewalking, if done right, could be an all-in-one system for Chromie Time, Timewalking and Classic servers. Because, let's face it, spreading players over duplications of the game when would could technically all play in the same space not only increases the library of players available _is_ detrimental to the game. Just need to find a way to layer old and new systems atop each other without causing a cascade of bugs.
It would be a massive undertaking that Blizz would never do. Not because they could not but because most players do not use it often. Im sure in Blizz eyes Timewalking was a bust as soon as they released it. They never bothered to scale it properly, which lead to 95% of the playerbase and never appealed to people like me who wanted the old somewhat challenging Heroic BC dungeons back. If a system does not rope people in constantly they ditch it and move on. If it lasts an expansion they ditch it and move on. They do not develop with the idea content should be there as it was and have the option later for solo play. Classic servers did address the content as it was mostly but as you said, splits the playerbase everywhere which makes the servers eventually feel dead.
@@Keldiur and that is a problem with blizzard. The success of classic should have put in their brain people would like to go back and play old content with a challenge as it was. Final fantasy found this out quite early. They reward you with currency that allows you to buy gear for current expansion that allows you to raid current. Blizzard can do this with timewalking. Get rid of timewalking as we know it. Keep timewalking badges and vendors. Add cosmetics and gear that allow us to get into mythic+ of current expansion and people will sign up for those dungeons. This will lower que times. And I agree the chromie time is crap. You shouldn't be kicked out at level 50. You should be capped at level 50 but you should be able to all the content you want in other areas with a semi challenge. By making the world more challenging you make the game funner. I do hope blizzard learns from what final fantasy has done.
I really want Upper Blackrock Spire for one of the WoD dungeons, since a bunch of the weapons there have unique effects similar to classic counterparts, and I want to see what kind of cheese can be had with them.
I get this, it can be a great idea going forward. I do have my worries however, are they planning on ONLY keeping this to be a End of season thing. The reason I am worried is Raids, i love raids, and to me its the only real content I enjoy. I am not a fan of the better rewards or the got to go fast mentality of M+. But, affixes to Raids, the better loot and such does somewhat worry me, are they testing the waters for M+ Raids or just end of season fun. Hope its just end of season fun. Also not a fan on the whole WoW seasons. :)
I think the reintroduction of old dungeons is so smart, nostalgic, less played ones, good dungeons, but what i think is even greater, imagine you skipped bfa, you get a mechagon key, you enter the zone, and see all the cool crafting systems which i stand by as being one of my favourites , i really loved mechagon, despite how shit bfa was, and yhe players who missed the patches of these dungeons, will get yo see it, and possibly get them to play Also helped by them all being favourites and in stranger places that some may (especially new players, havent been) , i dont want to give blizzard too much credit yet, but this is genius
I would love for mythic+ time walking to apply to all. Wrath and MoP dungeons would be so fun with themes affixes. Like for wrath it would be cool for random undead swarms to come with every boss for example and Sha for mop
This is all great for the competitive players, but will there be any new content and/or gear available from open world or queued content? Will casual guilds that barely clear Normal or Heroic be interested in running more difficult raids with even more affixes/mechanics?
@@fraud291 they have been trying to prevent raid logging and keep all the higher end raiders logged on longer due to the systems they need to do. They have done this because all they have left is the casuals that will never move on and the raiders. Yet in doing so they are putting so many roadblocks in progression for the casual raider that its the demo they are losing the fastest.
All of this sounds pretty neat. I would like it though if they added a little something for us casual people like it buff to XP for quests and dungeons etc. I love to be able to level a whole bunch of during this time.
I think once the expansion is ending make a new mechanic that adds some gear alteration where we can be as loose with how we spec our characters. Wow needs more exploration and more character freedom. So I dont feel like I won't have fun being a certain class.
Honestly this sounds like a really interesting idea for an end of expansion thing. It sure beats having NOTHING to do for 9 months while we wait for the next expansion. I've always said they need to add content to keep us busy at the end of an expansion and this sounds like a great step in that direction. Personally I think adding some small easy to design world bosses every few months that are super hard would be a good idea but this sounds pretty neat.
They need more solo content, I'd love to not have to rely on forming groups with people to have to get top tier gear, it'd be nice if there was a way to do it on your own as well as in a team
@Tekrø blizzard killed the social aspect of the game when they introduced raid finder. Nobody talks to each other anymore and guilds aren't the same, if I'm going to have to be stuck in a group with nobody that talks to each other or engages with the "MMO" part of the game then I'd rather just play the game as an adventure by myself. Not to mention that it isn't exactly easy to get into high end raiding and mythic plus especially if you have a life outside the game and can't make a commitment to it. The game itself shouldn't revolve around armor either it should revolve around skill, if all types of players were able to access high end gear it would put more focus on skill than gear which I think is more healthy and engaging in the long term
Of the things I would ask them to work on the most, is to bring back social interaction and maybe a bit of sandboxness into the experience. Game systems and stories are fine, but I truly think the social aspect is the one the game needs the most.
The easiest way to keep a prior raid relevant when a new raid comes out is to keep the ilvl increase between raids small and remove weekly lockouts on the older raid. It is how FFXIV does things and it works out fairly well. As an example in WoW terms... Mythic Nathria could carry you into Heroic Sanctum, and Heroic Nathria could carry you into Normal Sanctum. Since Nathria would not have a weekly lockout a guild could farm nathria to work on their organization that leads to them going straight into Sanctum. Then you do the same for Sanctum>Sepulcher.
Pretty lame since you can get heroic level gear through mythic plus. Which is way easier than trying to clear mythic nathria or sanctum. And I don’t think people would want to go through the trouble of clearing mythic sod just for heroic sepulcher gear which will be replaced once if you just do heroic sepulcher
While I admire Bellular having the guts to be positive in a time where the narrative is "WoW Bad," but when most of this "good news" is M+, M+, M+, M+, Mage Tower, M+, M+ it just doesn't excite me. I don't care about M+ and I'm not the only one!
Yeah I miss when heroics were the difficult versions. Mythic would be fine to replace heroic in this sense. Mythic 0 or.mythic would = heroic dungeon. Mythic + adds bosses affixes. Bring back challenge mode, Timer version, but can also have challenge mode plus with affixes/bosses added. My ideal type of dungeon set up. I hate timers in dungeons/island expeditions.
The real question is though, what rewards other than loot will we get for progressing in the raids. Do we get the CE achievement? Or maybe a mount? Because spending dozens of hours trying to progress in a raid, when you know that it doesn't really matter is something that many people, probably myself included, will try to avoid.
Here's an idea. Instead of raid affixes that affect the bosses and mobs. They should do affixes that affect the player directly and their abilities. So that it would fundamentally change how some players approach similar challenges. Rather getting more or less the same challenge with just a little bit of extra difficulty
The plan sounds good in theory. Really, it just depends on how they execute it in that 10 to 14 month range. I understand it's a competition now but they should take the time and polish this new expansion as much as possible......to save Warcraft.
Depending on which expansion we're talking about bring raids from i think most of the MoP/WoD/Legion raids just needs some higher number tuning and they will be reasonably relevant again. You dont need to add M+ affixes to them, just make the mechanics hurt and force u to use ur CDs similar to how the current tier is tuned. I think people will just enjoy having the ability to raid smth from the old times that they enjoyed and shit doesnt need remakes.
Credit where credit's due; I think this is a great approach from Blizzard to deal with the normal content drought. Doesn't magically solve the other issues the game is dealing with, but certainly it's a huge, unexpected boon. Would be nice if they included Frostmourne as a transmog for DK's somehow.
Even as a raider all I want is smooth progression through raiding difficulties; and said difficulties being the only real barriers. This is a neat idea for the end of an expac thats a disaster but in a good expac with a solid content cadence this would be horrendous and I wish I could say I was surprised the community doesn’t recognize this.
My concern with adding affixes to raids is that the past two expansions they've really ramped up the mechanical complexity of raids. I'm not sure some bosses have ROOM for any more mechanics among the ones they already have.
they keep doing these panic button moves by adding wod dungeons to m+ and mage tower and syncing raids. these are good changes but far too late after the fact
Using of old content to freshen it up is great. As someone who started playing in legion but really started playing BFA would like to see old stuff revamped!
I am confused, how does any of that make the raid relevant? What does any of it matter? Nothing matters until the new expansion comes out if there's not any new storyline progression.
I'm not. They are lazy and disorganized. They never finish what they start and they half ass most of the stuff they do. This is only done because barely anyone plays the game anymore and they are in panic.
I am glad they are bringing back the mega dungeons. They were added late in mythic+ and so this lets you play them more unlike the other dungeons of the expansions that you had all expansion to do mythic plus in.
Yes. All previous expansion raids should be between LFR and Normal in the current expansion to give raid teams different content to do to help fill in slots and gear up new members or alts.
No offense Belluar. But while the dungeons you want are cool. They would be immensely annoying/frustrating to run at any kind of high key level (so long as tyranical is a thing). Grimrail is cool.... but its going to be miserable as a high key
And this is why speedrunning shouldn't be the only viable way to progress endgame dungeons. There should be more ways to tackle them for equal rewards, not just race against clock. for example imagine if each level of keystone added additional affix and +15 would mean that you're basically juggling all of them at once. As plus side there would be no time limit though, cooldowns would reset after failed boss attempt and only lose condition is giving up. You could experiment as much as you want, run the numbers and figure out what cheesy strategy works best and the best thing is that even if your class or spec just isn't viable or you feel like this is huge waste of time, no worries: after all, this is just option, not mandatory. When there are multiple endgame modes, it doesn't matter if everything isn't viable or hyper balanced. As long as there's even one way you can achieve your goal, that's enough.
@@retrohanska4441 agreed. I personally dont like the timer system. I know people that love it, but i prefer the strategic use of abilities and environment rather than the crush of a clock
The people who are voting gimrail are actual forum trolls and people who want to stick it to M+ players, but have no intention of doing these garbage dungeons. How anyone can play this crap and think the ultra tight spaces and bad camera angles would make for a great dungeon .
@@s0515033 or they like the idea of it and/or are only thinking about the theme and not implementation. Ignorance is far more plentiful than Malice in something like this
@@Judiacator I would agree, but there are a lot of people overtly saying they are troll voting to spite the "elitists>." The very forum thread with the poll is rife with it.
As someone who loathes M+ dungeons, this sounds bloody awful. If this is the future of WoW, unsubbing months ago was the right choice and I will not be back.
Bro just give me LFR for every raid in the past and I’ll be decently happy. I don’t even want good gear, I just want a fun raid night. If LFR is somewhat easy but not too easy, sounds good to me
I like the idea of the kiss/curse style of affixed. Outdated raids should be fun whilst still providing a challenge and gear that's adequate to get you into current raid tier.
I have just a random idea for a type of raid. It could extend over an entire expansion, and with each patch, we get more and more wings to explore/raid. Like we are discovering something. But this raid and dungeon thing is a great move. Some of the past dungeons are full of a ton of engaging narrative, even if you've seen it before but not in a long time.
@@berandol88 We could even revisit the Wintergrasp raid. It seemed like a lot of Titan stuff there. Why not make that into an "explore the facility" raid?
Coming back for 9.2 has seen me want to do a lot of stuff to catch up. I love Mythic/Mythic plus but getting in solo, especially when you don't have the RaiderIO resume to come with you, is incredibly frustrating. Even if you go in for using the community options like Discord servers supposedly designed to help form groups. These changes are exciting, but I am sure they will increase the gap and exclusivity of the content in question.
Took about 3-4 months after quitting wow for the addiction to fade. Now coming back to watching bellular bout a year on I am so glad I have time to do better things with my time.
I still think the Chromie "pick a time period to level in" system needs rehauled, but after this patch announcement, I'm glad to see a lot of old content is becoming relevant again.
The best way to make it so no one is required to do all raids and M+ would be separating the different system progressions, basically making all gear relevant only outdoors and in the instances the loot is from (+ all single-player instances). Which would also make balancing a little bit easier
I don't think you are right with m+, in the text it says the m+pool will include 8 dungeons, that meens its 8 new beside the curent ones, I don't think they will lockout the shadowlands dungeons.
What if it actually gets a content patch alongside it? What if the "wowhead" theory comes in 9.2.5 instead of a 9.3 to skip the delay a .5 would add? It would be truly amazing to have that and then have the next xpac "soon" after
Yeah i had this idea 10 years ago. Open up all raids that drops currently level item gear, make them heroic/mythic level and have old content more challenging and providing relevant rewards. Mythic+ shattered halls
9.2 is pretty fun thus far tbh. The raid is great and it's hard (without being tedious like 9.1), the new affix is a lot of fun and ZM is a basic WoW patch zone (not great). All of this will just expand the way you play 9.2, and imo it's a very good idea. What bothers me though is the legendary item acquisition method. It costs a lot of gold and it sucks for alt characters. Apart from that, all this is great
If Blizzard is able to add affixes to raids without adding a timer, why can't they also add affixes to Mythic+ without adding a timer? Conversely, If Mythic+ is timed, then why not make Raid+ timed as well?
@@t.ydunston2251There will be a single reward at the end of the Dungeon. There can be additional rewards depending on how quickly the Dungeon was timed.
I will never not be amazed at the limitless enthusiasm of the WoW-addicted. “Look guys, this next patch is gonna be great! :D” Cool. Call me when Blizz has put out a series of solid patches and a must play expansion. Too many great games out now to even bat an eye at a momentary flash of competence from this beleaguered company.
Your sentiment is like my dark side, the devil on my shoulder. The angel on my shoulder is saying look, they’re actually trying! And then both shoulder dwellers end up kicking each other’s ass. Love/hate relationship for me 😆
@@Gunship888 That’s not an *angel* telling you to give infinite chances to the company plagued with scandal and poor decisions. Sounds like the other guy
Being enthusiastic in the change of direction is fine. Nobody is saying they have fixed everything just that they are making steps in the right direction and we want to encourage them to keep doing so. That way we they can gain back players like yourself.
@@deathminder9206 Listen if these *baby* steps in the right direction are enough for you to feel hopeful about the future of this game then more power to you. WoW could get me back in one content rich X-pac if it were full of features present in the MMOs I’m enjoying instead. But Blizz have convinced themselves the game doesn’t need the things I want. Things like player housing. Blizz turns it’s nose up at that all the time, meanwhile I’ve spent *hundreds* of dollars on ESO housing and return to the game weekly because I love my homes/mansions/castles in Tamriel. Little things like this are simply too little too late for a former WoW-lore hound that has watched his time, dedication, and money be invalidated by constant retconning and anti-consumer practices.
Two points. They could have the raids all upgraded to this new plan but that doesn't mean that you can always get into all of them each week. They could limit the raids in a group ID lock of sorts. So you can pick like four of the raids. Second point. If their plan isn't getting the hell out of California then they didn't plan hard enough.
I remember back in November maybe? there being speculation that Blizzard timed Legion Timewalking and the return of the Mage Tower to coincide with the release of Pandaemonium. Now, this is purely conspiratorial thinking, but there is a small part of me that thinks that if it were actually the case, that could explain why Blizzard didn't announce the full time Mage Tower return then, to incentivize people to come back to WoW for the Mage Tower instead of sticking with FF14. That said, the more likely explanation is probably just a mix of Occam's and Hanlon's Razors: Blizzard thought it would be a neat addition as a time-limited thing and didn't reconsider until after it came and went
Any change or innovation now doesn't necessarily mean shit for their future practices. You said the same thing near the end of the last expansion Bell. All this means to many of us now "our sub numbers are continuing to bleed out and we desperately want access to your wallet again, please trust us again after we've lied to you 10 times in a row". It's going to take time and considerable effort (shown consistenly) in order to win many of their long term fans back.
now as a filthy casual I really hope they give the same treatment to open world content. I would really like to go to a previous expansion have the choice to do the dailies/emissaries/etc and still have relevant progress xD
as good as this is, I really wish they did this stuff YEARS AGO there has been absolutely no reason to delay the COUNTLESS instances they have just collecting dust in the leveling experience, that being said I'm beyond excited that it's finally coming back and who knows, maybe my rogue can go back to using his sylvanas daggers!!?? Also during the time they gave legions timewalking M+, I did notice that it was actually fairly complicated memorizing all those additional fights of which the mechanics are NEEDED to win since it's not just a blazing playthrough anymore. They should update the instance guide by including the abilities of mobs as well.
i think this is cool idea for end of expansion event. i just hope it wont be big grind for gear again and just shower us with loot and let experiments run wild with all the old trinkets and what not, make everything accountwide etc, could definitly see me playing month or two before next expansion if so
As for the M+, it';s good that they finally start reusing old dungeons I guess. But why limit it to just 8? And on top of that they're limiting it to some of the most frustrating M+ dungeons, as it's all mega-dungeons with relativly complicated bosses. Which means there's not going to be a single "easy" dungeon in that season. Which just seems like it'd chase even more people away from M+ than you've already lost in BFA & SL. Why not just allow us to run all 20+ mythic dungeons from legion onward and slowly add in the older stuff? Why is it such a half-assed solution?
This is an easy question to answer: No one plays the mega dungeons, even when they were relevant. This whole, "Gotta go fast!" has been so ingrained in the community that its not something that's ever going to disappear. The community has such a hard-on for clearing content as fast as possible because "their time is valuable" that even when these mega dungeons were relevant during their expansion or patch, no one ran them because they couldn't complete the mega dungeons fast enough to suit their tastes. Blizzard made a huge mistake by having Mythic+ dungeons timed, because they essentially endorsed the "gotta go fast" mentality the community has. So now Blizzard is trying to get players to actually play dungeons that they spent a whole bunch of development power on that players rarely ran. Their next move should be to remove the timed requirement of M+ dungeons, or if it *has* to be timed just do like what FF14 does and give players 30 minutes to clear a dungeon before it closes and they get no loot at all.
A rotation keeps things fresh and allows random groups of players to get experience and master dungeons week by week. It would suck to rely on randoms to know pathing/mechanics for dozens of dungeons and how they each are impacted by that week's affixes. A smaller pool also makes it easier for Blizzard to collect data and tune the dungeons for M+. Pretty good reasons to do it this way, actually.
I havent done a mythic since ever.(seriously i dont even have the keystone achiement) I do raid though. Im not entirely fond of the same content at a more difficult challange for slighly better loot. Tbh I think they should do more again with garrison and fix interaction there, instead of a solitude city where you reside in. Do like the ending of the war and blending of the factions Biggest thing they could improve on is selecting a game mode on character creation. Sky is the limit there.
On legion mage tower, im very much convinced that the only reason why it’s permanent is that they saw mau’s drop like a hot potato once legion TW was over, and they didnt see the same bump for it with 9.2’s full launch and release. If they said in dec we need want to make it permanent but it might take a patch, some time etc. everyone would be giving blizzard easy w’s. 9.2 is def an improvement in terms of patches with raids and mechanics, but not enough to out weigh mage tower.
Yes, highly indicative of douche bags withholding desired content for YEARS for the sole purpose of patching up a PR issue when needed. Fuck these people.
A lot of people hating on this makes me confused If they don’t touch normal or heroic and have an option or alternative. Especially if it’s just for old raids. It’s not an issue. It would be awesome to have an older raid current tier with a few added things.
This remind me of that old song: "Making love out of nothing at all..." Content drought? Do you think they will notice if we just give them OLD content but dangle new carrots? Yea. We noticed. I think I am over carrots. I want pickles now :P
They wanna give us more content to do with the myriads of assets they already have, give us ALL past dungeons opened up with proper scaling so they are not easymode. Give us older dungeons that are mythic plus with affixes and figure out a unique loot/xmog/badge system for them. I swear alls you have to do is look to private servers, sadly, for way better ideas on what to do with older content than what Blizz does with it... which is nothing.
@@bdenneysr85 ok... maybe, even though Blizz can barely seem to be able to do that very well these days. I say maybe because there is one i played on recently, still in 'beta' that literally remade Azeroth. All new assets, terrain, mount/character models you name it. So to say they cant make a new expansion, is wrong. What im saying is not properly using old content is foolish. Why cant they have two teams? Since they cant get classic right, how about take that team and have them put in the work to bring back to life old content in the world. Continue story lines. Make new ones. Provide weekly events that keep players engaged through out Azeroth. Give players something to do derived from old content that provides practical rewards. Since Rift is dead, take a ton of ideas from them in regards to world events. Have the scarlet crusade rise up again and we have to dampen it down. Also, look up Project Ascension: Conquest of Azeroth. What that team has done and is doing with older content is mind blowingly good.
i thought the challenge mode system was way more rewarding in terms how it felt, compared to mythic+. Once you got it, it felt great! Now its just an unending loop-hole that feels mendatory and unrewarding. But people just gotten used to it and it feels like looking at drug addicts.
@@ReyReyzzz or maybe you can accept the fact that not everyone likes ff14. I love 14 but it's pve is absolute garbage. This is coming from someone who's run multiple tiers of savage. Wow pve is always better than ff14
All the improvement done towards the end of an expansion cycle only to take it all back when next expac launch are the norm for blizz. Until they give all the qol and player friendly system at the start of an expansion, I will highly doubt that they changed.
Dungeon swab? That should be something you could do post raid to run in there like a janitor and clean up the whole raid. Just like Viscera cleanup detail shadow warrior.
Bosses in a raid don’t need to have the same affix. I think it can be very different to the Mythic+ formula. And on the legendary issue, f*** it, not gonna pay the cost to move it to a different slot, I‘m just not gonna bother.
While a good idea, I feel like they might be biting off more than they can chew. This sounds like a lot of work which means that there will be less work elsewhere, so what's the catch going to be? They already take forever for their patch cycles and now they want to give themselves more work in an already convoluted system. I hope they can pull it off, but realistically I have my doubts.
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Look I would love the game to return to form and really be great again but at this point I'm already gone. They need to WIN ME OVER, show me why I should still care about this game. No more broken promises or broken systems - make a good game - get people raving about it - follow through with promises - show your LISTENING. IF they can do this then I'll consider coming back. Until then - better ways to spend my time and money.
Mythic Castle Nathria, as well as mythic Sanctum of Domination, were already overtuned raids with very few guilds clearing them on mythic. Most mythic raiding guilds died on mythic Council, and then on mythic Stone Legion Generals - they never even got to mythic Sire. Another huge batch of guilds died on mythic Painsmith, and then again on mythic Sylvanas. Not just guilds, but tons of players quit in general. The idea of INCREASING raid difficulty moving forward is an absurd idea. They've already alienated loads of players out there. The raider and player base is shrinking.
For reference, I'm the guild master and raid leader of a mythic raiding guild. We've achieved several Cutting Edge achievements since Legion when we started pushing into that content. We achieved Cutting Edge in both Castle and Sanctum, but it was incredibly challenging and took a ton of effort. The amount of player turnover and frustration was high, specifically on a handful of fights that were either overtuned and/or poorly designed. I mentioned a few of them here. This higher level of difficulty and/or poor design is not a sustainable raiding model and will continue to push people away from the game.
I fear for the future of the game I enjoy. From a managerial perspective, it's requiring more and more work to keep a mythic raid team running with decent players. The costs of this are outweighing the benefits, and there's only so long even dedicated, passionate players like myself can do this. I've been playing WoW and raiding since Vanilla, March of 2005. I've been the GM of our guild since 2007 early TBC. The game is dying due (in part) to this continued mythic raid tuning problem.
You are right. This was the reason why i stopped mythic raiding in bfa and switched only to m+. Now since SL only pvp is left. Mythic Raiding? It is just a suffering 😅
I think they just mean increasing the difficulty to scale with all the gear we have acquired....
BRING BACK 10MANS!
Mythic raiding is indeed way too hard. Also, Painsmith with affixes? No tnx
Imagine wanting difficult raiding and then complaining when the difficulty is through the roof...
Although it is warranted, Blizz's idea of difficulty is one person not doing a mechanic basically game ends the attempt for this xpac soooooo
never trust them, this will be used as a time crunch/waste mechanic for SOMETHING later on. Watch them attach each raid to the weekly vault.
Oh you didn't clear every synced raid? no loot!
As much as we like to shit on Blizzard, I highly doubt this. They slowly have been getting the message recently.
Never a single positive comment uh?
@@Netsuko last time they showed promise of listening...they dropped BFA, then said they know whats best and dropped Shadowlands, Blizz will 100% drop the ball again and not listen (like they ignore so much of the ptr feedback they get)
@@Jamesgates355 Like you understand gaming industry kid.
@@Ravensky93 got a better understand then you do, but pretty sure most people do compared to you
The mythic plus system does not need to enter raiding please dont
It's not really like mythic+ it seems like it will make it so raids dont get erased every patch which is really good
There is no such thing as copium overdose...
Get an original joke man
I would say actively disregarding their own coverage of the massive issues and laziness of affixes to praise this decision is a pretty good example of said overdose.
I would love for them to have some type of “blast from the past” weekend and do like a lvl 60 dead mine or RFC. I don’t know just seems cool lol.
Or... simply add timewalking for all previous expansions and classic via Chromie to do old stuff esp deadmines and crap for unique transmog and add in occasional challenges that are real challenges with Infinite Dragonflight invasions happening at random intervals that can even occur during a boss fight.
Maybe even add this but with Timewalking + to scale it harder... imagine a Timewalking + 15 Deadmines with Infinite Dragonflight Invasions at random or a Timewalking + 9 Ulduar and maybe add the Infinite Dragonflight Invasions :-P.
They actually did this before. In Cata they had heroic deadmines, it was wonderful.
@Bender doesn’t have to be dead mines. Just would be cool since they timewalk anyway.
While I like them experimenting they seem to still cater to the same old raiding/mythic dungeon fragment of their playerbase. I think that's odd when you are currently seeing so many competetors being successful by having a wide mix of content for everyone. They don't appreciate players, that just like easier content - locking them out from all the endgame reward systems. They should cater a lot more to this big chunk of the playerbase - people that liked spamming heroic dungeons, random battlegrounds (when premades were not common), farmed old raids for transmog and so on. The content they tried to offer to that group really failed - these weird world area quests during the N'zoth patch for example. Or the smaller world quests... starting from the time you spend to get there, navigation issues, endless unrewarding struggles against small fry and unrewarding hard bosses you have to zerg down with other players. That's not fun.
They should reuse their scenario tech a lot more, create some narrative driven linear content with some meaningful encounters and rewards. But nothing big, 10 minute content instead these long dives through torghast.
For WOW that really is so awesome in terms of combat gameplay, all they need to do is letting people play the game. Look at Lost Ark, they do a great job. Great soloable dungeons, chaos dungeons for the 'slaughter cannot not be spelled without laughter' moments, guardian raids for some more difficult challenge but all doable without reading guides, installing addons, spending endless time idle...
LOL successful??? Please go do me a quick favor and take a look at Twitch and YT numbers when it comes to Lost Ark, New World, and FF XIV. They are all in the bin.
@@bdenneysr85 Your metrics are not the standard to meassure whether a game is being successful or not.
SURE DOES, I WONDER HOW THEY WILL FUCK THIS SHIT UP?????????????????
by releasing it
I think being able to time walk mythic+ would be cool during those weekly events. try for some of your fave gear from old dungeons and have that gear become relevant. i just think it would be cool.
As a TW simp I second this wholeheartedly.
That has alredy been done.. well during the legion timewalk
I would love to see Time Walker Mythic + with classic, bc, wotlk dungeons too ;D
Maybe if they change the mythic + loot system. Running the mythic plus isn't fun for most people.
if i could get a chance to timewalk the WoD challenge mode for WoD to have the ability to buy the weapon transmogs that I missed out on i'd feel really good about that; as far as content for the game goes, more access for FOMO stuff is a good direction
the most memorable content droughts we had were cataclysm and W.O.D and both after the droughts we had an amazing and great expansion. I think blizzard needs to just give more time on these expansions and we as a player base need to accept some kind of drought to ensure we stop getting unfinished unrefined expansions and systems
Yeah there’s other games to play. It’s ok to take a break, nobody moans about it in FFXIV.
Don't defend them
Why should we suffer from a shit expac so we can get a good one
@@Execu7ing OP literally just said 'we need to endure content droughts' so we get good expansions. I.e. no more shit expansions rushed out as a buffer before a good expansion.
Good expansions take time to make...longer drought = more time making consistently good xpacs.
Ehmmm don't you remember 8.3's drought? It was the longest one, even longer than 5.4.3, and the expansion that came afterwards has been awful. Please no, simply stop making shit expansions, actually listen to the players when they give such clear feedback and take risks but be ready to revert them when they prove not to work out. No need to force content droughts, that's just failed planning
It isn't about time. It's because they don't know what player want, and they probably don't even play the game so they can't know it firsthand. Honestly, microsoft should fire every single dev and replace them with people who can actually make quality stuff quickly. This isnt 2004 anymore tech is way better, they can do stuff way faster if they werent that lazy lol. For 13€ a month +30€ for the game i expect triple the content and at least 5x times better content. No more diabolical systems and fix the graphics and clipping damnnit
I think how Timewalking has been mis-designed since its inception had resulted in the developers just automatically throwing the Mage Tower in to the "Weekend Event", because that is all that Timewalking currently is, a reoccurring temp event.
Timewalking's original intent was to "help give people levelling in old content more players to play with". Unfortunately it missed that mark _immediately_ by only making it available every 2-3 weeks and for only one expansion at a time. Thankfully party sync is a thing.
Timewalking should've always have been an always-on system with an occasional event to incentivise people or remind people that it's there. Extensive reworking of the badge system would be needed to give level 50+ people a reason to skip back in time every now and then outside of the event window.
It's actually the same mistake that was made with Chromie Time. Being booted out at level 50 and never having the option to return to a legacy expansion once we're over level 50 seems like a huge misunderstanding of the players' desire to travel through time. If I need a time-out from the current expansion (or there is a lull) then I should be able to "time walk" where-ever and whenever I want.
Hell, since the idea of 'Classic' servers being a fully authentic recreation of the original expansion doesn't last for more than a year before people start wishlisting adjustments and "seasonal variations", I would even argue that Timewalking, if done right, could be an all-in-one system for Chromie Time, Timewalking and Classic servers. Because, let's face it, spreading players over duplications of the game when would could technically all play in the same space not only increases the library of players available _is_ detrimental to the game. Just need to find a way to layer old and new systems atop each other without causing a cascade of bugs.
It would be a massive undertaking that Blizz would never do. Not because they could not but because most players do not use it often. Im sure in Blizz eyes Timewalking was a bust as soon as they released it. They never bothered to scale it properly, which lead to 95% of the playerbase and never appealed to people like me who wanted the old somewhat challenging Heroic BC dungeons back.
If a system does not rope people in constantly they ditch it and move on. If it lasts an expansion they ditch it and move on. They do not develop with the idea content should be there as it was and have the option later for solo play. Classic servers did address the content as it was mostly but as you said, splits the playerbase everywhere which makes the servers eventually feel dead.
@@Keldiur and that is a problem with blizzard. The success of classic should have put in their brain people would like to go back and play old content with a challenge as it was. Final fantasy found this out quite early. They reward you with currency that allows you to buy gear for current expansion that allows you to raid current. Blizzard can do this with timewalking. Get rid of timewalking as we know it. Keep timewalking badges and vendors. Add cosmetics and gear that allow us to get into mythic+ of current expansion and people will sign up for those dungeons. This will lower que times. And I agree the chromie time is crap. You shouldn't be kicked out at level 50. You should be capped at level 50 but you should be able to all the content you want in other areas with a semi challenge. By making the world more challenging you make the game funner. I do hope blizzard learns from what final fantasy has done.
r/agedlikemilk
Mythic style affixed raids...hard pass
I really want Upper Blackrock Spire for one of the WoD dungeons, since a bunch of the weapons there have unique effects similar to classic counterparts, and I want to see what kind of cheese can be had with them.
I get this, it can be a great idea going forward. I do have my worries however, are they planning on ONLY keeping this to be a End of season thing. The reason I am worried is Raids, i love raids, and to me its the only real content I enjoy. I am not a fan of the better rewards or the got to go fast mentality of M+. But, affixes to Raids, the better loot and such does somewhat worry me, are they testing the waters for M+ Raids or just end of season fun. Hope its just end of season fun.
Also not a fan on the whole WoW seasons. :)
I think the reintroduction of old dungeons is so smart, nostalgic, less played ones, good dungeons, but what i think is even greater, imagine you skipped bfa, you get a mechagon key, you enter the zone, and see all the cool crafting systems which i stand by as being one of my favourites , i really loved mechagon, despite how shit bfa was, and yhe players who missed the patches of these dungeons, will get yo see it, and possibly get them to play
Also helped by them all being favourites and in stranger places that some may (especially new players, havent been) , i dont want to give blizzard too much credit yet, but this is genius
@@Sonnabend00 shhhhh, we got DDR. We should be happy.
It's too late.
its never too late, just for arogant people.
I would love for mythic+ time walking to apply to all. Wrath and MoP dungeons would be so fun with themes affixes. Like for wrath it would be cool for random undead swarms to come with every boss for example and Sha for mop
This is all great for the competitive players, but will there be any new content and/or gear available from open world or queued content? Will casual guilds that barely clear Normal or Heroic be interested in running more difficult raids with even more affixes/mechanics?
I expect them to upgrade the raid while overall preserving the intended challenges for every mode. But it would be really good to know it for certain.
Exactly my take away from this announcement.
Well casual guilds will need more time to clear raids with the new affixes so even more content for you.
no. the game is designed by a raid logger (ion) for raid loggers
@@fraud291 they have been trying to prevent raid logging and keep all the higher end raiders logged on longer due to the systems they need to do.
They have done this because all they have left is the casuals that will never move on and the raiders. Yet in doing so they are putting so many roadblocks in progression for the casual raider that its the demo they are losing the fastest.
All of this sounds pretty neat. I would like it though if they added a little something for us casual people like it buff to XP for quests and dungeons etc. I love to be able to level a whole bunch of during this time.
With the chqnges in the threqd of fate, the 50 to 60 is quite smooth if you mix with a bunch of dungeons. 40 to 50 is still a bit tedious tho imo
I think once the expansion is ending make a new mechanic that adds some gear alteration where we can be as loose with how we spec our characters. Wow needs more exploration and more character freedom. So I dont feel like I won't have fun being a certain class.
Honestly this sounds like a really interesting idea for an end of expansion thing. It sure beats having NOTHING to do for 9 months while we wait for the next expansion. I've always said they need to add content to keep us busy at the end of an expansion and this sounds like a great step in that direction. Personally I think adding some small easy to design world bosses every few months that are super hard would be a good idea but this sounds pretty neat.
9 months 😂 u are delusional
9? think that would be a new record for fastest last patch to expansion, I'm thinking closer to 12-14 months
I bet ne next expansion will be summer 2023
@@sydney8578 yes I would expect somewhere between June and August 2023
Pretty neat ...dude
They need more solo content, I'd love to not have to rely on forming groups with people to have to get top tier gear, it'd be nice if there was a way to do it on your own as well as in a team
agreed this depending on raids all the Fing time
More solo content? Agreed. Being able to farm top tier gear from it? Hell no. This is an MMORPG.
more solo for sure, but its an mmo, do mmo things if you want the best stuff
@Tekrø blizzard killed the social aspect of the game when they introduced raid finder. Nobody talks to each other anymore and guilds aren't the same, if I'm going to have to be stuck in a group with nobody that talks to each other or engages with the "MMO" part of the game then I'd rather just play the game as an adventure by myself. Not to mention that it isn't exactly easy to get into high end raiding and mythic plus especially if you have a life outside the game and can't make a commitment to it. The game itself shouldn't revolve around armor either it should revolve around skill, if all types of players were able to access high end gear it would put more focus on skill than gear which I think is more healthy and engaging in the long term
Of the things I would ask them to work on the most, is to bring back social interaction and maybe a bit of sandboxness into the experience.
Game systems and stories are fine, but I truly think the social aspect is the one the game needs the most.
You can't force people to be social. It just drives resentment.
so what are non raiders who like solo play suppose to do? You know..a very large chunk of players
The easiest way to keep a prior raid relevant when a new raid comes out is to keep the ilvl increase between raids small and remove weekly lockouts on the older raid. It is how FFXIV does things and it works out fairly well.
As an example in WoW terms... Mythic Nathria could carry you into Heroic Sanctum, and Heroic Nathria could carry you into Normal Sanctum. Since Nathria would not have a weekly lockout a guild could farm nathria to work on their organization that leads to them going straight into Sanctum. Then you do the same for Sanctum>Sepulcher.
Pretty lame since you can get heroic level gear through mythic plus. Which is way easier than trying to clear mythic nathria or sanctum. And I don’t think people would want to go through the trouble of clearing mythic sod just for heroic sepulcher gear which will be replaced once if you just do heroic sepulcher
While I admire Bellular having the guts to be positive in a time where the narrative is "WoW Bad," but when most of this "good news" is M+, M+, M+, M+, Mage Tower, M+, M+ it just doesn't excite me. I don't care about M+ and I'm not the only one!
He’s a WoW fanboy, he just shit talks them because it brings in money
Keep in mind this is his job.
Yeah I miss when heroics were the difficult versions. Mythic would be fine to replace heroic in this sense.
Mythic 0 or.mythic would = heroic dungeon.
Mythic + adds bosses affixes.
Bring back challenge mode,
Timer version, but can also have challenge mode plus with affixes/bosses added. My ideal type of dungeon set up. I hate timers in dungeons/island expeditions.
The real question is though, what rewards other than loot will we get for progressing in the raids. Do we get the CE achievement? Or maybe a mount? Because spending dozens of hours trying to progress in a raid, when you know that it doesn't really matter is something that many people, probably myself included, will try to avoid.
Here's an idea. Instead of raid affixes that affect the bosses and mobs. They should do affixes that affect the player directly and their abilities. So that it would fundamentally change how some players approach similar challenges. Rather getting more or less the same challenge with just a little bit of extra difficulty
that would be more complicated to implement, but probably worth it. Do you think it should affect every class/spec differently?
kinda like blessing and torments in torghast!!
That would be impossible to balance
@@rjjrob30 This works in Torghast because they don't really have to tune it much. This would be a nightmare in raids.
@@99Pierogies you don't need balance. You need fun. If everything is broken then it's balanced. Broken in players favor > broken in games favor.
The plan sounds good in theory. Really, it just depends on how they execute it in that 10 to 14 month range. I understand it's a competition now but they should take the time and polish this new expansion as much as possible......to save Warcraft.
Mage tower was going to be limited to get people to resub in order to do it. Seeing how that failed they then decided to give players what they wanted
Depending on which expansion we're talking about bring raids from i think most of the MoP/WoD/Legion raids just needs some higher number tuning and they will be reasonably relevant again. You dont need to add M+ affixes to them, just make the mechanics hurt and force u to use ur CDs similar to how the current tier is tuned.
I think people will just enjoy having the ability to raid smth from the old times that they enjoyed and shit doesnt need remakes.
Credit where credit's due; I think this is a great approach from Blizzard to deal with the normal content drought.
Doesn't magically solve the other issues the game is dealing with, but certainly it's a huge, unexpected boon. Would be nice if they included Frostmourne as a transmog for DK's somehow.
I'm not a raider so this literally means nothing to me. Guess I'll stay unsubbed until 2023 or indefinitely
My FFXIV free trial is almost up and ima unsub WoW and swap over til a new expansion comes out
Even as a raider all I want is smooth progression through raiding difficulties; and said difficulties being the only real barriers. This is a neat idea for the end of an expac thats a disaster but in a good expac with a solid content cadence this would be horrendous and I wish I could say I was surprised the community doesn’t recognize this.
@@Darksoul9669 what's bad about this? Imo it's a great idea
I mean this politely. Why do we care what you do?
@Gabriel, I’m on the same boat too.
My concern with adding affixes to raids is that the past two expansions they've really ramped up the mechanical complexity of raids. I'm not sure some bosses have ROOM for any more mechanics among the ones they already have.
they keep doing these panic button moves by adding wod dungeons to m+ and mage tower and syncing raids. these are good changes but far too late after the fact
Instead of affixes in raids just give us anima orbs, it’s not gonna be balanced but it’s gonna be fun af
What I could imagine is something like the current cyphers when adds spawn such as with Inerva or the Nine.
Using of old content to freshen it up is great. As someone who started playing in legion but really started playing BFA would like to see old stuff revamped!
I am confused, how does any of that make the raid relevant? What does any of it matter? Nothing matters until the new expansion comes out if there's not any new storyline progression.
Even with all the nerfs tazavesh still scares people. It's crazy.
I am surprised they have never done something like this before during a content drought
I'm not. They are lazy and disorganized. They never finish what they start and they half ass most of the stuff they do. This is only done because barely anyone plays the game anymore and they are in panic.
I am glad they are bringing back the mega dungeons. They were added late in mythic+ and so this lets you play them more unlike the other dungeons of the expansions that you had all expansion to do mythic plus in.
ESO already does this and it works well. I have other qualms with ESO but the horizontal power system is the way modern mmos should do.
Yes. All previous expansion raids should be between LFR and Normal in the current expansion to give raid teams different content to do to help fill in slots and gear up new members or alts.
This sounds like a way of incentivising the ability to go get the transmogs you missed without wasting time. :)
I really hope these types of experiments lead to something like Timewalking for an entire zone or xpac.
No offense Belluar. But while the dungeons you want are cool. They would be immensely annoying/frustrating to run at any kind of high key level (so long as tyranical is a thing). Grimrail is cool.... but its going to be miserable as a high key
And this is why speedrunning shouldn't be the only viable way to progress endgame dungeons. There should be more ways to tackle them for equal rewards, not just race against clock. for example imagine if each level of keystone added additional affix and +15 would mean that you're basically juggling all of them at once. As plus side there would be no time limit though, cooldowns would reset after failed boss attempt and only lose condition is giving up. You could experiment as much as you want, run the numbers and figure out what cheesy strategy works best and the best thing is that even if your class or spec just isn't viable or you feel like this is huge waste of time, no worries: after all, this is just option, not mandatory. When there are multiple endgame modes, it doesn't matter if everything isn't viable or hyper balanced. As long as there's even one way you can achieve your goal, that's enough.
@@retrohanska4441 agreed. I personally dont like the timer system. I know people that love it, but i prefer the strategic use of abilities and environment rather than the crush of a clock
The people who are voting gimrail are actual forum trolls and people who want to stick it to M+ players, but have no intention of doing these garbage dungeons. How anyone can play this crap and think the ultra tight spaces and bad camera angles would make for a great dungeon .
@@s0515033 or they like the idea of it and/or are only thinking about the theme and not implementation. Ignorance is far more plentiful than Malice in something like this
@@Judiacator I would agree, but there are a lot of people overtly saying they are troll voting to spite the "elitists>." The very forum thread with the poll is rife with it.
As someone who loathes M+ dungeons, this sounds bloody awful. If this is the future of WoW, unsubbing months ago was the right choice and I will not be back.
good riddance, please never come back : ) look a little too old to be playing anyway
Bro just give me LFR for every raid in the past and I’ll be decently happy. I don’t even want good gear, I just want a fun raid night. If LFR is somewhat easy but not too easy, sounds good to me
I like the idea of the kiss/curse style of affixed. Outdated raids should be fun whilst still providing a challenge and gear that's adequate to get you into current raid tier.
This is a much more measured and reasonable take.
I have just a random idea for a type of raid. It could extend over an entire expansion, and with each patch, we get more and more wings to explore/raid. Like we are discovering something.
But this raid and dungeon thing is a great move. Some of the past dungeons are full of a ton of engaging narrative, even if you've seen it before but not in a long time.
You mean like VoA from Wrath?
@@berandol88 Simiar, but scaled up. Like an entire raid into one wing.
@@VampireSakuya it could be a cool idea to revisit and expand upon, and tie it into the story.
@@berandol88 We could even revisit the Wintergrasp raid. It seemed like a lot of Titan stuff there. Why not make that into an "explore the facility" raid?
Coming back for 9.2 has seen me want to do a lot of stuff to catch up. I love Mythic/Mythic plus but getting in solo, especially when you don't have the RaiderIO resume to come with you, is incredibly frustrating. Even if you go in for using the community options like Discord servers supposedly designed to help form groups. These changes are exciting, but I am sure they will increase the gap and exclusivity of the content in question.
Took about 3-4 months after quitting wow for the addiction to fade. Now coming back to watching bellular bout a year on I am so glad I have time to do better things with my time.
I still think the Chromie "pick a time period to level in" system needs rehauled, but after this patch announcement, I'm glad to see a lot of old content is becoming relevant again.
The best way to make it so no one is required to do all raids and M+ would be separating the different system progressions, basically making all gear relevant only outdoors and in the instances the loot is from (+ all single-player instances). Which would also make balancing a little bit easier
I don't think you are right with m+, in the text it says the m+pool will include 8 dungeons, that meens its 8 new beside the curent ones, I don't think they will lockout the shadowlands dungeons.
What if it actually gets a content patch alongside it? What if the "wowhead" theory comes in 9.2.5 instead of a 9.3 to skip the delay a .5 would add? It would be truly amazing to have that and then have the next xpac "soon" after
Can you get the book Mount yet for completing the mage tower challenges? I missed out last round :(
Yeah i had this idea 10 years ago. Open up all raids that drops currently level item gear, make them heroic/mythic level and have old content more challenging and providing relevant rewards. Mythic+ shattered halls
9.2 is pretty fun thus far tbh. The raid is great and it's hard (without being tedious like 9.1), the new affix is a lot of fun and ZM is a basic WoW patch zone (not great). All of this will just expand the way you play 9.2, and imo it's a very good idea. What bothers me though is the legendary item acquisition method. It costs a lot of gold and it sucks for alt characters. Apart from that, all this is great
If Blizzard is able to add affixes to raids without adding a timer, why can't they also add affixes to Mythic+ without adding a timer? Conversely, If Mythic+ is timed, then why not make Raid+ timed as well?
I mean if you don’t time you get the items you just don’t get a higher key correct? But I could be wrong I stop mythics and went to PvP.
@@t.ydunston2251There will be a single reward at the end of the Dungeon. There can be additional rewards depending on how quickly the Dungeon was timed.
I will never not be amazed at the limitless enthusiasm of the WoW-addicted. “Look guys, this next patch is gonna be great! :D” Cool. Call me when Blizz has put out a series of solid patches and a must play expansion. Too many great games out now to even bat an eye at a momentary flash of competence from this beleaguered company.
Your sentiment is like my dark side, the devil on my shoulder. The angel on my shoulder is saying look, they’re actually trying! And then both shoulder dwellers end up kicking each other’s ass. Love/hate relationship for me 😆
@@Gunship888 That’s not an *angel* telling you to give infinite chances to the company plagued with scandal and poor decisions. Sounds like the other guy
Exactly
Being enthusiastic in the change of direction is fine. Nobody is saying they have fixed everything just that they are making steps in the right direction and we want to encourage them to keep doing so. That way we they can gain back players like yourself.
@@deathminder9206 Listen if these *baby* steps in the right direction are enough for you to feel hopeful about the future of this game then more power to you. WoW could get me back in one content rich X-pac if it were full of features present in the MMOs I’m enjoying instead. But Blizz have convinced themselves the game doesn’t need the things I want. Things like player housing. Blizz turns it’s nose up at that all the time, meanwhile I’ve spent *hundreds* of dollars on ESO housing and return to the game weekly because I love my homes/mansions/castles in Tamriel. Little things like this are simply too little too late for a former WoW-lore hound that has watched his time, dedication, and money be invalidated by constant retconning and anti-consumer practices.
What addon r u using for the nameplates?
sounds intresting, looks like it's designed to give boost sellers more stuff to sell, and therfore people buy more tokens, = more money to blizz
I havent thought about WoW in years. Wake me up when a Legion type expansion comes out
Two points. They could have the raids all upgraded to this new plan but that doesn't mean that you can always get into all of them each week. They could limit the raids in a group ID lock of sorts. So you can pick like four of the raids.
Second point. If their plan isn't getting the hell out of California then they didn't plan hard enough.
I remember back in November maybe? there being speculation that Blizzard timed Legion Timewalking and the return of the Mage Tower to coincide with the release of Pandaemonium. Now, this is purely conspiratorial thinking, but there is a small part of me that thinks that if it were actually the case, that could explain why Blizzard didn't announce the full time Mage Tower return then, to incentivize people to come back to WoW for the Mage Tower instead of sticking with FF14.
That said, the more likely explanation is probably just a mix of Occam's and Hanlon's Razors: Blizzard thought it would be a neat addition as a time-limited thing and didn't reconsider until after it came and went
I swear i've seen this title during the Shadowlands Beta/Alpha with just some words changed
Any change or innovation now doesn't necessarily mean shit for their future practices. You said the same thing near the end of the last expansion Bell.
All this means to many of us now "our sub numbers are continuing to bleed out and we desperately want access to your wallet again, please trust us again after we've lied to you 10 times in a row".
It's going to take time and considerable effort (shown consistenly) in order to win many of their long term fans back.
I'd love them adding mythic raiding for 10 people. It felt really good the 10/25 people raids in WotLK onwards.
now as a filthy casual I really hope they give the same treatment to open world content. I would really like to go to a previous expansion have the choice to do the dailies/emissaries/etc and still have relevant progress xD
The Galakrond map thing was there since 8.2, likely made for when they did the whole Heart of Azeroth campaign with the dragon scales.
Haha! I totally agree on the WOD dungeon, we have totally the same thought here! xD
as good as this is, I really wish they did this stuff YEARS AGO
there has been absolutely no reason to delay the COUNTLESS instances they have just collecting dust in the leveling experience, that being said I'm beyond excited that it's finally coming back and who knows, maybe my rogue can go back to using his sylvanas daggers!!??
Also during the time they gave legions timewalking M+, I did notice that it was actually fairly complicated memorizing all those additional fights of which the mechanics are NEEDED to win since it's not just a blazing playthrough anymore. They should update the instance guide by including the abilities of mobs as well.
got me hyped with the rating for solo shuffle, hope they do it :D
I hope they add some old instances too, i.e vanilla instances like Stratholme would be one crazy ride XD
i think this is cool idea for end of expansion event. i just hope it wont be big grind for gear again and just shower us with loot and let experiments run wild with all the old trinkets and what not, make everything accountwide etc, could definitly see me playing month or two before next expansion if so
As for the M+, it';s good that they finally start reusing old dungeons I guess. But why limit it to just 8? And on top of that they're limiting it to some of the most frustrating M+ dungeons, as it's all mega-dungeons with relativly complicated bosses. Which means there's not going to be a single "easy" dungeon in that season. Which just seems like it'd chase even more people away from M+ than you've already lost in BFA & SL.
Why not just allow us to run all 20+ mythic dungeons from legion onward and slowly add in the older stuff? Why is it such a half-assed solution?
This is an easy question to answer: No one plays the mega dungeons, even when they were relevant. This whole, "Gotta go fast!" has been so ingrained in the community that its not something that's ever going to disappear. The community has such a hard-on for clearing content as fast as possible because "their time is valuable" that even when these mega dungeons were relevant during their expansion or patch, no one ran them because they couldn't complete the mega dungeons fast enough to suit their tastes. Blizzard made a huge mistake by having Mythic+ dungeons timed, because they essentially endorsed the "gotta go fast" mentality the community has. So now Blizzard is trying to get players to actually play dungeons that they spent a whole bunch of development power on that players rarely ran. Their next move should be to remove the timed requirement of M+ dungeons, or if it *has* to be timed just do like what FF14 does and give players 30 minutes to clear a dungeon before it closes and they get no loot at all.
A rotation keeps things fresh and allows random groups of players to get experience and master dungeons week by week. It would suck to rely on randoms to know pathing/mechanics for dozens of dungeons and how they each are impacted by that week's affixes. A smaller pool also makes it easier for Blizzard to collect data and tune the dungeons for M+.
Pretty good reasons to do it this way, actually.
I havent done a mythic since ever.(seriously i dont even have the keystone achiement) I do raid though. Im not entirely fond of the same content at a more difficult challange for slighly better loot.
Tbh I think they should do more again with garrison and fix interaction there, instead of a solitude city where you reside in.
Do like the ending of the war and blending of the factions
Biggest thing they could improve on is selecting a game mode on character creation. Sky is the limit there.
i was JUST thinking of this the other day.. they need a new tier of difficulty for the raiders to keep them going.
I was looking forward to taking my time to get in Keystone master
On legion mage tower, im very much convinced that the only reason why it’s permanent is that they saw mau’s drop like a hot potato once legion TW was over, and they didnt see the same bump for it with 9.2’s full launch and release.
If they said in dec we need want to make it permanent but it might take a patch, some time etc. everyone would be giving blizzard easy w’s. 9.2 is def an improvement in terms of patches with raids and mechanics, but not enough to out weigh mage tower.
Yes, highly indicative of douche bags withholding desired content for YEARS for the sole purpose of patching up a PR issue when needed. Fuck these people.
4:25 "Cool but messy" I think is a pretty safe bet with this, but I'll give Blizz credit for making the attempt.
A lot of people hating on this makes me confused
If they don’t touch normal or heroic and have an option or alternative.
Especially if it’s just for old raids.
It’s not an issue. It would be awesome to have an older raid current tier with a few added things.
The "easy" fix is to just throw more allied races in there and since they made a ton off them last time it's probably coming.
This remind me of that old song: "Making love out of nothing at all..."
Content drought? Do you think they will notice if we just give them OLD content but dangle new carrots?
Yea. We noticed. I think I am over carrots. I want pickles now :P
They wanna give us more content to do with the myriads of assets they already have, give us ALL past dungeons opened up with proper scaling so they are not easymode. Give us older dungeons that are mythic plus with affixes and figure out a unique loot/xmog/badge system for them. I swear alls you have to do is look to private servers, sadly, for way better ideas on what to do with older content than what Blizz does with it... which is nothing.
Do you know what people who run private servers DON'T have to do that WoW devs do? PUT TOGETHER AN ENTIRE NEXT EXPANSION...
@@bdenneysr85 ok... maybe, even though Blizz can barely seem to be able to do that very well these days. I say maybe because there is one i played on recently, still in 'beta' that literally remade Azeroth. All new assets, terrain, mount/character models you name it. So to say they cant make a new expansion, is wrong. What im saying is not properly using old content is foolish. Why cant they have two teams? Since they cant get classic right, how about take that team and have them put in the work to bring back to life old content in the world. Continue story lines. Make new ones. Provide weekly events that keep players engaged through out Azeroth. Give players something to do derived from old content that provides practical rewards. Since Rift is dead, take a ton of ideas from them in regards to world events. Have the scarlet crusade rise up again and we have to dampen it down. Also, look up Project Ascension: Conquest of Azeroth. What that team has done and is doing with older content is mind blowingly good.
I personally can’t wait for the next expansion’s ads where another character just approaches to stare at the camera while being vaguely angry.
i thought the challenge mode system was way more rewarding in terms how it felt, compared to mythic+. Once you got it, it felt great! Now its just an unending loop-hole that feels mendatory and unrewarding. But people just gotten used to it and it feels like looking at drug addicts.
Imagine a total Patchwerk fight, add Volcanic or Explosive to it XD
Grimrail gives me vertigo. If it comes, it needs accessibility settings that turn off the background whizzing behind.
I'm super excited about this because it means another season of watching the disappointment of all the people who still give WoW a chance.
Still prefer a season of reused content over FFXIV
The gaming industry is shitty because people insist on continuing to support shitty game devs. It's a neverending wheel of disappointment.
@@sprksmr7208 keep inhaling bro
@@ReyReyzzz or maybe you can accept the fact that not everyone likes ff14. I love 14 but it's pve is absolute garbage. This is coming from someone who's run multiple tiers of savage. Wow pve is always better than ff14
@@konata8657 uh huh
All the improvement done towards the end of an expansion cycle only to take it all back when next expac launch are the norm for blizz. Until they give all the qol and player friendly system at the start of an expansion, I will highly doubt that they changed.
Dungeon swab? That should be something you could do post raid to run in there like a janitor and clean up the whole raid. Just like Viscera cleanup detail shadow warrior.
I'm sad to not see the Suramar mythic dungeons on the rotation :(
Depending on the wod dungeons these were all my least favorite dungeons from each of those expansion lol.
Mine also :(
Is Season 4 9.2.5 or 9.3? have been unable to find a definitive answer to this.
Bosses in a raid don’t need to have the same affix. I think it can be very different to the Mythic+ formula.
And on the legendary issue, f*** it, not gonna pay the cost to move it to a different slot, I‘m just not gonna bother.
While a good idea, I feel like they might be biting off more than they can chew. This sounds like a lot of work which means that there will be less work elsewhere, so what's the catch going to be? They already take forever for their patch cycles and now they want to give themselves more work in an already convoluted system. I hope they can pull it off, but realistically I have my doubts.
It's a good idea to include old dungeons / raids and keeping them relevant. Hope it works well.
I would LOVE to see a updated WC.
Anyone remember Blitzchung? The lawsuit? Anything? No? Ah well. I guess things that happened not this year don't matter when judging companies.