Crikey - less than a day since I published this one and I've had over 700 comments! Sorry if I've not managed to reply to yours specifically and thanks very much for all the good wishes, very much appreciated!
nathr2012 I had similar tires on my DR650, and I went down twice in a similar fashion. I'm sure there are many contributing factors, but cold roads, crappy road tires, and too much torque are probably the main ones.
They're Pirelli MT60s. Not really knobbly as such, as the tread is visibly shallow and there is little space between the blocks. It was designed primarily as a road tyre in the "adventure" mould, and they even did a soft compound version for wet supermoto races (!?). They are not suited to off-road riding on anything that isn't dry or gravel. It is an old design by now as well, and tyre tech moves quickly!
I think the only reason big modern high power and especially high torque Adventure bikes are rideable by so many is because of traction control - and probably true of many bikes that either have semi-knobblies or even semi-slicks that're useless when cold/wet.
I think it's worth remembering that the physics doesn't change. If something hampers the (any) tyre's ability to grip, it won't. If you're used to very high levels of grip (like modern tyres offer), then this sudden loss of grip can be a bit of a surprise. That confidence created by modern tyres is surely also bolstered by great handling bikes with effective electronics. But there is no substitute for reading the road and riding accordingly, and perhaps exploring the physics on less capable machinery. That said I think TMF was just unlucky here.
nathr2012 Great analysis!! Add to that the inability to hear how much of that torque you are applying, and possibly slightly too stiff suspension along with a narrower tyre. Imagine the carnage if RoyalJordanian whisked through the Streets of London on one of these?!! Ralph McTell may have to write a New version of his timeless hit. Now that I remember I think I saw a review of his pop up on the same bike, must give it a look, I bet it's a hoot!!
The Zero doesn't have Traction Control? That's really surprising because one of the things electric bikes have is a LOT of torque that's available immediately... that's great when you're in a straight line wanting to get moving but you don't want all those torques messing about with your rear wheel mid-corner. Most riders are used to gas engines where torque winds up slowly, meaning a touch of throttle mid-corner can be applied - not so with electric bikes with full torque available right from go. Electric bikes really need TC.
I know... he is going through the damage I am like "fixable, fixable..." I thought he would end with a frame crack or something. That is all repairable easily.
I think a lack of traction control on this bike was a mistake. Electric motor with instant torque is asking for issues. I did a demo day on this bike and multiple riders crashed this exact model, a bad combo of tires and no TC with oodles of torque. Great motorcycle overall, can't wait for the electric revolution.
Folk have gone round corners on bikes with far worse tyres and no TC, kids of today are spoilt by all these rider aids! (says me who has just ordered a bike with TC and ABS) :D
Having ridden this bike, my statement is based on direct personal experience instead of conjecture. Sedate, normal bikes do not need it (although I like TC and ABS on the street!)...but I can't say the same for this bike in particular. The electric motor produces over 100 ft-lbs or torque from the word GO.
TC is for dumb internal combustion engines. All the guys at Zero need to do is adjust the torque curve on the controller. Which they already do, in riding modes other than sport, that back wheel skid would've never happened. So what you need to do when you get on this bike, is actually ride in a mode that you feel safe in. Don't go drifting and wheeling in sports mode if you(or the tarmac and tires) can't handle it. Cheers!
The best news is all of your limbs are intact and you appear to be ok. Can’t expect anything more after a crash. A damaged Zero is far easier to manage than a “Damaged Missenden Flyer”. Seriously, glad your ok. Thank you for sharing.
totalled? nope.. superficial battle scars. Pride battered? oh yes... a wee bit. glad you're ok dude, could have been a HELL of a lot worse. I hope zero do let you have another, or the same one to finish the review.. its kinda in their interest!!
I'm pleased to hear you're alright. I came off my 125 in full kit at around 25MPH & broke left hip in 2 places so I'm glad to hear nothing was broken for you. Hope the guys do let you keep it. I love the idea of this bike but it's power delivery puts me off of even test riding one. Stay safe TMF. Look forward to your next video.
Glad you are ok mate, bike isn’t that badly damaged and all those parts can be replaced really easily, guess that will need to check for frame damage etc, but no way is it totalled, I agree with you that the instant torque and no traction control was pretty much to blame 😬
G-MAN'S Bikes & Bits Agreed. The reason why a proper traction control hasn't been implemented yet on these bikes is way, way beyond me, especially considering their price.
Thanks for being honest and so descriptive with the circumstances that led to the bike drop. I believe it's possible to look at every aspect of an accident (somewhat like the AAIB without apportioning blame) and to look at how what is so often a combination of circumstances causes an event to take place. Whenever we turn a corner on a two-wheeled machine we always have opposing centrifugal and centripetal forces and there are often not enough clues just in the road itself to see when grip might disappear. As others have commented, a combination of knobbly tyres, a possibly slightly greasy road, very high torque at low rpm, no helpful audible engine feedback and no traction control all conspired to remove the grip that might otherwise have been present. It's easy to have hindsight after the event but perhaps applying throttle well after the apex of the turn when the bike was upright might have helped in this set of otherwise conspiring conditions? The bike manufacturer and dealer need to also think hard about whether an emerging technology has lessons to be learned too.
You clearly feel bad about this, so take a positive. In your new role of crash test dummy you've probably saved countless bikers' lives by being single handedly responsible for future compulsory traction control on electric bikes. Thank you....and glad you're ok.
Great that you are OK. Total respect for manning up in public. This is a huge opportunity for the company to get behind you and make the necessary changes to improve the bike. If they grasp this chance their sales can only benefit.
Unlucky TMF, glad to see that you're mostly OK. Ive had a couple of near-offs in the past three months, on my own s1000rr which I've owned for over a year - it was in rain mode, with full TC etc. 1min from my house, turning right onto the main road, hardly any throttle and just seemed to hit a particularly slippery peice of tarmac - twice though - on the same junction! So easy to do. The Zero DSR probably produces a lot more torque / wheel-thrust at those kind of speeds than any litre bike too..
Ultimately the only thing that matters is you walked away. It must have been equally painful making this video, so kudos for being so honest; it really counts.
Glad to see you are 100% ok TMF. It is invaluable information to see how well a bike takes a spill (albeit unintentional) Your commitment to bike testing cannot be questioned! 😃👍🏻
Absolutely! This reminds me of the age old question posed to a reviewer years ago.. "How do I know how low I can get my knee down on this bike?" The answer to which was, "Keep going around a roundabout getting lower and lower until you fall off. Then give it a bit less than that." Valuable learning experience!
And that is why everyone riding a motorcycle should ALWAYS wear safety PPE no matter how short your journey!! Glad you're OK TMF and obviously in shock of the experience. I know it's gutting about the the bike and you probably take care of loan bikes in your charge better than your own, however the parts CAN be replaced......Good to see you're alright and thanks for the honest report.
We are all relieved to hear you aren't badly hurt! It will be very interesting to see how the company dealer responds to this mishap. This will be the true test of the company. Look forward to a follow up of this misadventure. Cheers.
"totalled" is a bit clickbaity, as I have seen bikes being way worse off and still redeemable with a little wrenchin'. Good to see you're fine, I guess the good thing about this you got the quality of your gear confirmed. I went down with my Husky WR years ago and got similar warping of the bars, ended up using a big old digging bar to straighten it out. Good enough for government work.
I have done something similar and we all have . Anyone who has not made a mistake hasn't done anything. I dropped my X-ADV. The problem I believe is No Clutch. On a regular bike you can slip the clutch, you have a brake and a clutch. If you feel anything untoward happening you can slip the clutch disengaging the power and apply the brake. On a semi--auto or electric you cannot do this Even on a Scooter it is different the power applied is so linear the problem does not occur. With respect I don't believe it is about Traction Control. It has made me re-think the so-called advantages of an automatic. On a bike you need all the manual control you can get. Glad you are OK. Great content. All the best --Simon Hichisson
Glad you’re ok. Goes to show how important it is to wear proper gear. It’s a serious problem here in America. I’m always worried about people I see and my friends when they ride without proper equipment. Even a very seasoned rider can have a spill
Modustollens1 I was lucky to get away with a sprained ankle for my first crash. The bike was ugly but lived. I vowed to never get on a bike again without my gear.
It's difficult to really damage Zero. I had much worse crash with my SR year ago. I hit a huge pot hole (riding 80kmh), flipped over and rolled for 30m, bike landed several times on each side and eventually on my leg. Lots of external damage: both rear view mirrors, both breaks, LCD display, foot holders. However, it was still in riding condition, when I picked it up! Repairs: it really depends on the dealership. I have a luck that mine is Hollywood Electrics, which I believe is the only specialized electric-only dealership in world, and my bike was fixed in two hours, except for LDC which took three days to ship from Zeros factory .
So pleased you’re ok. Thanks for posting this video, it goes to prove that no matter how good a rider you are, ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN. It also showed the importance of riding with proper good quality safety gear. We all see so many riders without it I personally feel that their insurance should be voided if their not wearing it. It may be expensive but the road surface is always going to be the winner. The bikes insured, so don’t worry about that, you’re way more important. Looking forward to the 14th.
I have often wondered why these bikes are not fitted with traction control. I have "lost" the back end of my own DS on a few occasions. I have replaced the OE tyres with the excellent road biased Bridgetone BT45's which has improved this behaviour in the colder weather. Other owners have also asked for a reverse function to help when handling the bike, it is quite a top heavy bike. Both TC and Reverse are functions easily programmed into the Sevcon motor controllers used on the Zero, but omitted for unknown reasons. If I may suggest that you could try the excellent BMW C-evolution plus. This has similar performance, range, traction control and a very useful reverse function. Quality and reliability are in a different league to the Zero. I look forward to seeing you conclude your review of these interesting bikes. Other manufacturers must follow or be left behind.
What a good video! I know the circumstances are not pleasant, but your honesty and candour in explaining what happened are a testament to your character. I’m pleased that your gear did its job properly and that you’re OK. More power to your elbow Sir (only not the sore one, the other one!)
Sorry to watch this vid (but) 😳 as a potential buyer it will be real interesting to see how quick it’s repaired by Zero. It will be interesting to see if all the parts are readily available. Glad you’re ok 👌
Saw your most recent (October) live stream and I searched for this video. Seriously, good on you for posting that. It's clearly no fault of your own but it's still good to see. I'm a new rider and it'll happen to me at some point, I'm sure but just goes to show that this can happen to absolutely anyone. Thanks for the honesty and glad you're well!
Those tyres don't look the best idea for all that torque, needs full winter tyres I would think for cold winter riding to maximise traction... Glad your ok buddy that's the main thing, these things happen unfortunately and great you have shared this as others would brush it under the carpet I bet.
Lamb Chop Rides I wish I saw this before my accident The back tyre is too thin and the torque was too strong. I broke my leg and need screws. But it needs some kind of traction control. I have been riding more than 20 years the Zero SR has put me off riding, for some time at least
Older video I know but first time for me to see. Thank you for sharing. It’s important for us to see things like this for learning and awareness and obviously takes much intestinal fortitude for you to share and with details to boot. Keep up the great videos. We very much appreciate your experiences.
I will say this again the sound and the clutch help control. That’s how 90 percent of riders rider using all the information available, visual, sound etc the clutch is a type of control. Glad you are ok though thats what matters.
It takes a different skill set for an electric, especially for curves. The torque control is in your right wrist. Once you are used to it, an electric will toast a ICE bike in curves and winding roads. No need for rev matching, shifting and pinpoint torque. Until you master it, the back will step out a few times
Happy to see you were not harmed, it's only a machine & is always unpleasant to see anything damaged but there will no doubt be positive side, ie the number of people watching this and thinking that little bit more whilst riding, always a good thing! Don't let it dampen your enthusiasm, I'm sure it won't!
Why not? Any company worth their (road) salt will take this in their stride and be able to use this unfortunate episode as a great marketing opportunity - ie. by demonstrating fantastic customer care and support. They'll also hopefully use it as a learning and product improvement opportunity.
Good point about traction control. Masses of torq on slightly skippy roads, perhaps not the best. If someone like you who has ridden loads of bikes can loose the back end it’s not really a good advert for the safety of the bike...granted the road may not have been the best but you must have ridden in worst conditions on different bikes and not had a problem....glad you’re ok.
The most important is that you are ok! Accidents suck, but they happen and that’s why we have to have proper gear & insurance. Thank you for posting the account and for doing it honestly - adds much credibility! Perhaps something to learn from this experience is to always have a camera on, whenever you ride, blogging or not? I’ve installed an “Innov” front and rear camera system on my RT & it’s always on, for capturing the unexpected. Please be safe and take extra care when riding the Zero again!
Main thing is you're ok, the bike can be fixed. There's nothing negative in this for Zero, the positive spin for them is you get to talk about their bike a bit more and they look like good guys when they loan you it again. Like you say, I imagine the issue is the torque delivery from an electric motor. That being 100% of it's torque is available at any road speed. I'm sure a different mind set and use of the right hand (Plus TC and ABS) is required when jumping onto an electric bike. You just don't have that engine revs + the gear you're in + engine noise relationship thing going on. To an extent, you have to learn to ride again. Looking forward to your review.
Adding my voice with no real additional value other than to say what so many others have; glad you're OK. Stuff doesn't matter. You took one for the team and I appreciate the data. As you know, we have so little information about motorcycle incidents of any kind. Zero will fully back you on this. Thanks for all that you do! /Chris
At least your ok! Maybe this is a very important review as you say the bike has a lot of torque and with no engine sound to help you judge how much power your applying could be a problem with all of these electric bikes??? Stay safe mate
Mikee T exactly mate, ppl have been arguing with me about this on the last video about the Zero. My problem with all electric bikes is a lack of sound means you lose one of the indicators(sound) about wheel speed etc. No clutch means it’s all power baby and you depend on the bike ecu to adequately control power delivery as it’s all instant torque.
The good points are you were not hurt and no one else was involved. As to the damage I`m surprised the handlebars warped they must be a very lightly built and no sliders along the body to provide at last some form of protection, if even from a stationary drop.Instant torque does have its drawbacks after all then well at least you made a valid safety improvement suggestion for the design team.They may also have access to on-board telemetry which will give them valid feedback on the bike parameters during the incident too.
My 2 cents amongst the $$'s of other comments- if the frame was scraped the bike would be a right-off (from my experience here in oz) so bike is repairable tho no doubt expensive. Can they sell a dropped demo? At heavily discounted price no doubt. Should that bike HAVE traction control? Of bloody course it should!! Blocky tyres look sus in the damp as well. So Zero suffers from your experience- prospective buyers have you to thank!
There are 3 things certain in life. Death, taxes and inevitably you ride a bike and you will fall off it. Sorry to hear about your crash but it could always have been worse.
Oh Nooo! That's so much damage! If they're selling this "wreck", I'll happily buy it for current going scrap metal rate, hehe. Cheer up TMF, as long as you're OK, it's another valuable experience behind your belt. You know as they say, there's only 2 types of bikers, those who already crashed and those who will crash
Glad you’re all fine in body. Nerves can take an initial knock, but your methodical analysis of what contributed helps to work towards reducing another similar incident. In fact your logical thoughts take me back to the old ‘crash comics’ from aviation days. A good lesson in wearing all your gear, all the time. Stay safe ‘Mr Flyer’. Just hope the excess wasn’t too painful.
Bummer but I'm glad there were no other vehicles involved... I've never ridden an electric bike but could it perhaps have been partly due to the immense low down torque electric motors have, possibly catching you out on acceleration?
I really appreciate your honesty with this. You could have kept quiet about it, but you explained what happened, so we can learn from it. As someone who is about to take up biking (got my CBT in a few weeks), it's good to know. Loving your videos in general - currently working my way through your Norway trip and enjoying it a lot! Keep up the good work!
There is a strange disconnect when riding a electric bike with no engine noise very little rotational mass & all them newton's dropping like Thor's hammer . No one can accuse you of not doing a proper test.
Glad you’re ok and you’re straightforward honesty’s appreciated. Looking forward to hearing the comments from Zero! Helmet replacement? All the best......
You ride motorbikes long enough and sooner or later you will hit the deck. It dents the pride, damages the bike but at least you walked away. When we met at the Excel it was my first ride back on the MT after doing an almost identical thing. Turned the bike on, pulled out of the car park, opened the throttle a little and within a second I was on the deck. Yamaha reckon the bike needs to initialize the speed sensors between the wheels for a short distance before the traction control sets, so even if you have TC it's not infallible. £1000.00 damage but all sorted now. Loads of torque, cold days, damp roads. Glad your ok.
Very glad your ok,had a very similar experience last autumn,just my pride was damaged fortunately,bike got fixed cheaply,happens to everyone one of us,keep going your one of the best
Dude! I'm so glad your ok. Your my favorite person on this youtube. Greetings all the way from Illinois USA. Keep your chin up and your awesome videos coming.
Thank god youre ok even a small accident can cause a lot of damage to the human body As for the bike let’s see how good the insurance company is All the best
Glad you are alright TMF. I personally think a spill like this is not a bad thing as long as not hurt as it is polite reminder we are not invincible! Ride safe.
So glad you're OK. A good advert for protective gear and lady luck paying just enough attention to see you down relatively safely! Having had head and spine injuries that ultimately left me unconscious, with months or rehab, lost job, lost house, no bike and as yet no ability to ride..... I wouldn't wish serious injury on anyone.
Hi mate pleased to see your ok! Shit happens unfortunately, i look forward to your long term review of the bike in future, keep up the good work all the best.
Glad to hear you're alright. Good thing it was a low-side and not a nasty high-side. Hope Zero can get it repaired quickly and let you finish the long-term review.
A shame about the accident, good that nothing serious happened to you, the bike can be fixed. Hope to see more reviews and updates soon, you have one of the best moto-vlogging channels on youtube!
I guess your last title was written in shock! It does show that we're all watching though! Ride safe, thanks for your reviews and efforts for the motorcycle community.
The Bike Looks awsome mate im happy that you are ok thats all that matters, the bike is just a thing, you got one of the best channels to watch out there keep up the great job. Im all in to the new Electric stuff need to see this bike in action i will wait for a full review on this one.
Glad you're OK ,this type of spill will happen to most of us at some time in our motorcycling life . When a incident like this does happen I think it will now make you a more aware rider 😉 Ian.
Traction control is a huge asset on any bike -- not just those with high torque/power engines. I (apparently) hit something slick accelerating out of a city corner on my 33hp 400cc maxi-scooter, spun the rear tire loose and highsided before I even knew what happened.
Well yes the good news, you're ok! It's just a machine after all, mate. Thank you for sharing, this could and has happened to any of us. I've test rode a Zero SR last year and the torque is tremendous. There were two modes from what I recall, one mode brought on the goods slowly the other just ramped up full-on like being shot out of a barrel. Glad you're ok!
I’m very glad you’re ok! You’re rapidly becoming one of the Brits I most admire. While John Surtees and Jim Clark approach deity status, you provide volumes of useful motorcycling information to your friends across the pond. Thank you.
Glad to hear you talking about it. Hopingly any aches and pains will pass away and you'll be good as new. Glad to hear you practice ATGAT All The Gear All The Time. That is the worlds largest grinding disk under those two wheels and it will chew us up if we don't protect ourselves. Thanks for sharing.
Bad luck mate, glad that you are OK. I test rode this bike on the weekend and can understand that the massive torque of this bike and how easy this would be to spin up the back wheel particularly in greasy conditions. Perhaps the manufacturer should have made traction control as a standard feature.
Watched enough of your videos to know you were riding safely. Feel sorry for Zero hopefully they can learn something from it ! Remember it was a test bike ! Just glad you weren't seriously injured.
I was expecting a totaled crashed bike. The Zero is hardly damaged, at least rideable home. Glad you were “dressed for the crash”. Now it’s been dropped,you can ride like hell.
I'm very glad you are okay. Of all the TH-camr's reviewing bikes, you appear to be one of the safest riders. It really makes me think that the Zero absolutely needs traction control.
A cautionary tale indeed. Glad you are OK & hope that doesn't put other potential loaners off.I'm just shocked that some have given this the thumbs down.
All that’s important is you’re ok Mr F. The bike is repairable, only minor damage. Measure of the man to put out an open and honest video taking responsibility. Looking forward to the review when you get the bike back. Take care out there Mr F.
I'm a regular follower of your videos, which I thoroughly enjoy, in sunny Australia. Accidents happen and a low speed fall on a bike is one of those things really, given that you only have two wheels to maintain contact with the road. Just really glad that you're OK and not seriously hurt - your personal safety and health are the two most important things in life for you and your loved ones. Motorbikes can be repaired, usually humans can be also, but sometimes with great difficulty. Take care and thanks so much for the ongoing reviews :-)
Damage not that bad TMF, look forward to you doing full review in few weeks time. I mostly feel sorry for Zero, this is such bad press for them and the bike and the tech are fantastic, you were just tad unlucky. Hope you manage to get full review done in coming weeks.
Gutted for you, and glad you appear not to be too shaken or blaming yourself. These electric bikes need to have not only ABS, but smarter sensitivity on the throttle at slow speeds to 'step it down' like a virtual gearing. Would be interested to hear a follow-up on this, how the dealer took it, repairs, etc.
Jeesy peeps TMF, not what you want just before a skiing holiday. Glad your ok. A very useful video for me to watch because I am seriously considering an electric bike and liked the FX, the main reason is the torque from standstill but I am afraid with so much of it I will be waiting until these things have traction control. These videos you make are very helpful, thanks. P.s. had a big fall on the slopes today and slid into a young couple, took the young lass right out, bet she’s aching tomorrow, I was gutted
As Max Cliffird use to say "there's no such thing as bad publicity" ... Until he found out ! Glad your ok and like many others hoping you get the Zero back for your review. They could come out looking good if they can turn the repair around quickly .
Glad to hear you're not too sore. It doesn't look all that bad to me. From what you showed here, a box of parts and a Saturday morning ... you can be riding by lunch time.
Crikey - less than a day since I published this one and I've had over 700 comments! Sorry if I've not managed to reply to yours specifically and thanks very much for all the good wishes, very much appreciated!
TheMissendenFlyer it appears you have an online family...
Lucky you , hope all ok good luck , lesson learned to us all 🤔💪🏍
TheMissendenFlyer It happens to us all. Very glad you’re okay!
What a big family you now have.
TheMissendenFlyer you accelerated mid corner on an electric bike. You have to remember electric bikes have instant torque.
Knobbly tyres on a damp road and lots of torque, bad combination perhaps?
nathr2012 I had similar tires on my DR650, and I went down twice in a similar fashion. I'm sure there are many contributing factors, but cold roads, crappy road tires, and too much torque are probably the main ones.
They're Pirelli MT60s. Not really knobbly as such, as the tread is visibly shallow and there is little space between the blocks. It was designed primarily as a road tyre in the "adventure" mould, and they even did a soft compound version for wet supermoto races (!?). They are not suited to off-road riding on anything that isn't dry or gravel. It is an old design by now as well, and tyre tech moves quickly!
I think the only reason big modern high power and especially high torque Adventure bikes are rideable by so many is because of traction control - and probably true of many bikes that either have semi-knobblies or even semi-slicks that're useless when cold/wet.
I think it's worth remembering that the physics doesn't change. If something hampers the (any) tyre's ability to grip, it won't. If you're used to very high levels of grip (like modern tyres offer), then this sudden loss of grip can be a bit of a surprise. That confidence created by modern tyres is surely also bolstered by great handling bikes with effective electronics. But there is no substitute for reading the road and riding accordingly, and perhaps exploring the physics on less capable machinery. That said I think TMF was just unlucky here.
nathr2012 Great analysis!! Add to that the inability to hear how much of that torque you are applying, and possibly slightly too stiff suspension along with a narrower tyre. Imagine the carnage if RoyalJordanian whisked through the Streets of London on one of these?!! Ralph McTell may have to write a New version of his timeless hit. Now that I remember I think I saw a review of his pop up on the same bike, must give it a look, I bet it's a hoot!!
Call that totalled , you're not trying hard enough . Bit of T cut and scaffy pole to straighten the bars and jobs a good un
Jane Mander that's exactly what I was thinking. Rotflol. 😀 👍 👍 👍
May I have a translation pls? Cheers.
T-cut chemically thins the lacquer in the vain hope of removing scratches in paint. A "scaffy" pole is for making a scaffold with. Job's a good'un.
identiticrisis cheers from Delaware USA!
@@identiticrisis "the vain hope". Indeed!
The Zero doesn't have Traction Control? That's really surprising because one of the things electric bikes have is a LOT of torque that's available immediately... that's great when you're in a straight line wanting to get moving but you don't want all those torques messing about with your rear wheel mid-corner. Most riders are used to gas engines where torque winds up slowly, meaning a touch of throttle mid-corner can be applied - not so with electric bikes with full torque available right from go. Electric bikes really need TC.
Yea, my thought exactly. Really surprised there is no form of TC considering the Torque characteristics compared to a petrol engine.
My thoughts as well.
They need TC particularly as they don’t have a clutch to cut power quickly.
That damage doesn't look totaled to me. Luckily you are sponsored by an insurance company.
Boodieman72 lol 👍
"Totalled"?
Not even close. Just minor cosmetic damage..
I know... he is going through the damage I am like "fixable, fixable..." I thought he would end with a frame crack or something. That is all repairable easily.
I think a lack of traction control on this bike was a mistake. Electric motor with instant torque is asking for issues. I did a demo day on this bike and multiple riders crashed this exact model, a bad combo of tires and no TC with oodles of torque. Great motorcycle overall, can't wait for the electric revolution.
Your right No TC ! Utter madness.
Folk have gone round corners on bikes with far worse tyres and no TC, kids of today are spoilt by all these rider aids! (says me who has just ordered a bike with TC and ABS) :D
Having ridden this bike, my statement is based on direct personal experience instead of conjecture. Sedate, normal bikes do not need it (although I like TC and ABS on the street!)...but I can't say the same for this bike in particular. The electric motor produces over 100 ft-lbs or torque from the word GO.
TC is for dumb internal combustion engines. All the guys at Zero need to do is adjust the torque curve on the controller. Which they already do, in riding modes other than sport, that back wheel skid would've never happened. So what you need to do when you get on this bike, is actually ride in a mode that you feel safe in. Don't go drifting and wheeling in sports mode if you(or the tarmac and tires) can't handle it. Cheers!
The best news is all of your limbs are intact and you appear to be ok. Can’t expect anything more after a crash. A damaged Zero is far easier to manage than a “Damaged Missenden Flyer”. Seriously, glad your ok. Thank you for sharing.
totalled? nope.. superficial battle scars. Pride battered? oh yes... a wee bit.
glad you're ok dude, could have been a HELL of a lot worse. I hope zero do let you have another, or the same one to finish the review.. its kinda in their interest!!
I'm pleased to hear you're alright. I came off my 125 in full kit at around 25MPH & broke left hip in 2 places so I'm glad to hear nothing was broken for you.
Hope the guys do let you keep it. I love the idea of this bike but it's power delivery puts me off of even test riding one.
Stay safe TMF. Look forward to your next video.
Glad you are ok mate, bike isn’t that badly damaged and all those parts can be replaced really easily, guess that will need to check for frame damage etc, but no way is it totalled, I agree with you that the instant torque and no traction control was pretty much to blame 😬
G-MAN'S Bikes & Bits Agreed. The reason why a proper traction control hasn't been implemented yet on these bikes is way, way beyond me, especially considering their price.
Not only that, but traction control on an electric bike should be extremely easy to implement, one would think.
disekjoumoer Though I'm no engineer, it would seem so indeed. No engine inertia to consider, easy to modulate engine braking etc...
oh disjyjoumoer, beste naam ooit ... LMGA
Ek't hard daarvoor gewerk :DDD
Thanks for being honest and so descriptive with the circumstances that led to the bike drop.
I believe it's possible to look at every aspect of an accident (somewhat like the AAIB without apportioning blame) and to look at how what is so often a combination of circumstances causes an event to take place.
Whenever we turn a corner on a two-wheeled machine we always have opposing centrifugal and centripetal forces and there are often not enough clues just in the road itself to see when grip might disappear.
As others have commented, a combination of knobbly tyres, a possibly slightly greasy road, very high torque at low rpm, no helpful audible engine feedback and no traction control all conspired to remove the grip that might otherwise have been present.
It's easy to have hindsight after the event but perhaps applying throttle well after the apex of the turn when the bike was upright might have helped in this set of otherwise conspiring conditions? The bike manufacturer and dealer need to also think hard about whether an emerging technology has lessons to be learned too.
You clearly feel bad about this, so take a positive. In your new role of crash test dummy you've probably saved countless bikers' lives by being single handedly responsible for future compulsory traction control on electric bikes. Thank you....and glad you're ok.
Great that you are OK. Total respect for manning up in public. This is a huge opportunity for the company to get behind you and make the necessary changes to improve the bike. If they grasp this chance their sales can only benefit.
i think the first thing to do is replace those horrible looking tyres the moment you buy it , anyone agree?
So many of us have been there. Glad you are ok and just proves the value of good kit protection. Fingers crossed for a later review of the Zero.
Unlucky TMF, glad to see that you're mostly OK. Ive had a couple of near-offs in the past three months, on my own s1000rr which I've owned for over a year - it was in rain mode, with full TC etc. 1min from my house, turning right onto the main road, hardly any throttle and just seemed to hit a particularly slippery peice of tarmac - twice though - on the same junction! So easy to do. The Zero DSR probably produces a lot more torque / wheel-thrust at those kind of speeds than any litre bike too..
Ultimately the only thing that matters is you walked away. It must have been equally painful making this video, so kudos for being so honest; it really counts.
Glad to see you are 100% ok TMF. It is invaluable information to see how well a bike takes a spill (albeit unintentional) Your commitment to bike testing cannot be questioned! 😃👍🏻
Absolutely! This reminds me of the age old question posed to a reviewer years ago.. "How do I know how low I can get my knee down on this bike?" The answer to which was, "Keep going around a roundabout getting lower and lower until you fall off. Then give it a bit less than that." Valuable learning experience!
And that is why everyone riding a motorcycle should ALWAYS wear safety PPE no matter how short your journey!!
Glad you're OK TMF and obviously in shock of the experience. I know it's gutting about the the bike and you probably take care of loan bikes in your charge better than your own, however the parts CAN be replaced......Good to see you're alright and thanks for the honest report.
Glad your ok. i really believe the lack of traction control on a bike like this is to blame due to the amount of torque.
We are all relieved to hear you aren't badly hurt! It will be very interesting to see how the company dealer responds to this mishap. This will be the true test of the company. Look forward to a follow up of this misadventure. Cheers.
They have responded exactly as I would have hoped - “one of those things” and no bad vibes between us - top guys..
"totalled" is a bit clickbaity, as I have seen bikes being way worse off and still redeemable with a little wrenchin'. Good to see you're fine, I guess the good thing about this you got the quality of your gear confirmed.
I went down with my Husky WR years ago and got similar warping of the bars, ended up using a big old digging bar to straighten it out. Good enough for government work.
I have done something similar and we all have . Anyone who has not made a mistake hasn't done anything. I dropped my X-ADV. The problem I believe is No Clutch. On a regular bike you can slip the clutch, you have a brake and a clutch. If you feel anything untoward happening you can slip the clutch disengaging the power and apply the brake. On a semi--auto or electric you cannot do this
Even on a Scooter it is different the power applied is so linear the problem does not occur. With respect I don't believe it is about Traction Control. It has made me re-think the so-called advantages
of an automatic. On a bike you need all the manual control you can get. Glad you are OK. Great content. All the best --Simon Hichisson
Glad you’re ok. Goes to show how important it is to wear proper gear. It’s a serious problem here in America. I’m always worried about people I see and my friends when they ride without proper equipment. Even a very seasoned rider can have a spill
Modustollens1 I was lucky to get away with a sprained ankle for my first crash. The bike was ugly but lived. I vowed to never get on a bike again without my gear.
Glad you are OK mate! Sorry for the fall.
It's difficult to really damage Zero. I had much worse crash with my SR year ago. I hit a huge pot hole (riding 80kmh), flipped over and rolled for 30m, bike landed several times on each side and eventually on my leg. Lots of external damage: both rear view mirrors, both breaks, LCD display, foot holders. However, it was still in riding condition, when I picked it up! Repairs: it really depends on the dealership. I have a luck that mine is Hollywood Electrics, which I believe is the only specialized electric-only dealership in world, and my bike was fixed in two hours, except for LDC which took three days to ship from Zeros factory .
So pleased you’re ok. Thanks for posting this video, it goes to prove that no matter how good a rider you are, ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN. It also showed the importance of riding with proper good quality safety gear. We all see so many riders without it I personally feel that their insurance should be voided if their not wearing it. It may be expensive but the road surface is always going to be the winner. The bikes insured, so don’t worry about that, you’re way more important. Looking forward to the 14th.
I have often wondered why these bikes are not fitted with traction control. I have "lost" the back end of my own DS on a few occasions. I have replaced the OE tyres with the excellent road biased Bridgetone BT45's which has improved this behaviour in the colder weather. Other owners have also asked for a reverse function to help when handling the bike, it is quite a top heavy bike. Both TC and Reverse are functions easily programmed into the Sevcon motor controllers used on the Zero, but omitted for unknown reasons. If I may suggest that you could try the excellent BMW C-evolution plus. This has similar performance, range, traction control and a very useful reverse function. Quality and reliability are in a different league to the Zero. I look forward to seeing you conclude your review of these interesting bikes. Other manufacturers must follow or be left behind.
The BMW review is coming soon!
What a good video! I know the circumstances are not pleasant, but your honesty and candour in explaining what happened are a testament to your character. I’m pleased that your gear did its job properly and that you’re OK. More power to your elbow Sir (only not the sore one, the other one!)
...cheers Andy, I'm pleased to say the elbow is no longer hurting :0)
Sorry to watch this vid (but) 😳 as a potential buyer it will be real interesting to see how quick it’s repaired by Zero. It will be interesting to see if all the parts are readily available.
Glad you’re ok 👌
Wait for traction control before you buy one ;-)
I got my parts from Zero within a week.
Saw your most recent (October) live stream and I searched for this video.
Seriously, good on you for posting that. It's clearly no fault of your own but it's still good to see.
I'm a new rider and it'll happen to me at some point, I'm sure but just goes to show that this can happen to absolutely anyone. Thanks for the honesty and glad you're well!
Those tyres don't look the best idea for all that torque, needs full winter tyres I would think for cold winter riding to maximise traction... Glad your ok buddy that's the main thing, these things happen unfortunately and great you have shared this as others would brush it under the carpet I bet.
Lamb Chop Rides I wish I saw this before my accident The back tyre is too thin and the torque was too strong. I broke my leg and need screws. But it needs some kind of traction control. I have been riding more than 20 years the Zero SR has put me off riding, for some time at least
Arthur Afonso Hope you recover and get on the saddle again
Older video I know but first time for me to see. Thank you for sharing. It’s important for us to see things like this for learning and awareness and obviously takes much intestinal fortitude for you to share and with details to boot. Keep up the great videos. We very much appreciate your experiences.
Thank you....
I will say this again the sound and the clutch help control. That’s how 90 percent of riders rider using all the information available, visual, sound etc the clutch is a type of control. Glad you are ok though thats what matters.
Interesting point - and equally cogent.
It takes a different skill set for an electric, especially for curves. The torque control is in your right wrist. Once you are used to it, an electric will toast a ICE bike in curves and winding roads. No need for rev matching, shifting and pinpoint torque. Until you master it, the back will step out a few times
Fair play for showing the down side that can happen sometimes from riding bikes, just glad that's it's just your pride that was hurt Andy 👍
Yes thanks Carp Man - luckily all is well now!
Sorry to see, glad your ok. Those tyres can’t have helped
Happy to see you were not harmed, it's only a machine & is always unpleasant to see anything damaged but there will no doubt be positive side, ie the number of people watching this and thinking that little bit more whilst riding, always a good thing! Don't let it dampen your enthusiasm, I'm sure it won't!
Guess which company isn't loaning TMF a bike ever again.
Why not? Any company worth their (road) salt will take this in their stride and be able to use this unfortunate episode as a great marketing opportunity - ie. by demonstrating fantastic customer care and support. They'll also hopefully use it as a learning and product improvement opportunity.
It was supposed to be taken as a joke
You're an honest guy, I'm sure Zero will be happy to let you continue the testing once it's fixed.
Good point about traction control. Masses of torq on slightly skippy roads, perhaps not the best. If someone like you who has ridden loads of bikes can loose the back end it’s not really a good advert for the safety of the bike...granted the road may not have been the best but you must have ridden in worst conditions on different bikes and not had a problem....glad you’re ok.
The most important is that you are ok! Accidents suck, but they happen and that’s why we have to have proper gear & insurance. Thank you for posting the account and for doing it honestly - adds much credibility! Perhaps something to learn from this experience is to always have a camera on, whenever you ride, blogging or not? I’ve installed an “Innov” front and rear camera system on my RT & it’s always on, for capturing the unexpected. Please be safe and take extra care when riding the Zero again!
Main thing is you're ok, the bike can be fixed. There's nothing negative in this for Zero, the positive spin for them is you get to talk about their bike a bit more and they look like good guys when they loan you it again. Like you say, I imagine the issue is the torque delivery from an electric motor. That being 100% of it's torque is available at any road speed. I'm sure a different mind set and use of the right hand (Plus TC and ABS) is required when jumping onto an electric bike. You just don't have that engine revs + the gear you're in + engine noise relationship thing going on. To an extent, you have to learn to ride again. Looking forward to your review.
Adding my voice with no real additional value other than to say what so many others have; glad you're OK. Stuff doesn't matter. You took one for the team and I appreciate the data. As you know, we have so little information about motorcycle incidents of any kind. Zero will fully back you on this. Thanks for all that you do! /Chris
At least your ok! Maybe this is a very important review as you say the bike has a lot of torque and with no engine sound to help you judge how much power your applying could be a problem with all of these electric bikes??? Stay safe mate
Mikee T exactly mate, ppl have been arguing with me about this on the last video about the Zero. My problem with all electric bikes is a lack of sound means you lose one of the indicators(sound) about wheel speed etc. No clutch means it’s all power baby and you depend on the bike ecu to adequately control power delivery as it’s all instant torque.
Interesting point
The good points are you were not hurt and no one else was involved. As to the damage I`m surprised the handlebars warped they must be a very lightly built and no sliders along the body to provide at last some form of protection, if even from a stationary drop.Instant torque does have its drawbacks after all then well at least you made a valid safety improvement suggestion for the design team.They may also have access to on-board telemetry which will give them valid feedback on the bike parameters during the incident too.
My 2 cents amongst the $$'s of other comments- if the frame was scraped the bike would be a right-off (from my experience here in oz) so bike is repairable tho no doubt expensive. Can they sell a dropped demo? At heavily discounted price no doubt. Should that bike HAVE traction control? Of bloody course it should!! Blocky tyres look sus in the damp as well. So Zero suffers from your experience- prospective buyers have you to thank!
I’m so glad you are okay! Thanks for all your hard work. I so enjoy these videos. Howdy from Dallas, Texas. Stay safe.
Your pal,
Mark.
Glad you're ok... But Totalled? Helps the views I guess.
Safety first. Glad to hear all ok with the driver! A fall like that is a good reminder for us all to take care on corners...March on!
There are 3 things certain in life. Death, taxes and inevitably you ride a bike and you will fall off it. Sorry to hear about your crash but it could always have been worse.
This is why I watch your videos. I’m glad you are ok and thanks for the detailed account of what happened. Everyone take care out there!
Slightly bent bars and scuffs. How is this "totaled" or "unrideable"?? It's a dual sport (ostensibly), they're SUPPOSED to look like that LOL.
Oh Nooo! That's so much damage! If they're selling this "wreck", I'll happily buy it for current going scrap metal rate, hehe. Cheer up TMF, as long as you're OK, it's another valuable experience behind your belt. You know as they say, there's only 2 types of bikers, those who already crashed and those who will crash
Totalled ??
Cosbro click bait title. There was no need for it either. "I crashed the loan bike" would have had as many views.
To be fair my bike had similar damage after I got rear-ended and it got written off so I wouldn't be surprised
Do i sense a patten
Cosbro George?
Glad you’re all fine in body. Nerves can take an initial knock, but your methodical analysis of what contributed helps to work towards reducing another similar incident. In fact your logical thoughts take me back to the old ‘crash comics’ from aviation days. A good lesson in wearing all your gear, all the time. Stay safe ‘Mr Flyer’. Just hope the excess wasn’t too painful.
Bummer but I'm glad there were no other vehicles involved... I've never ridden an electric bike but could it perhaps have been partly due to the immense low down torque electric motors have, possibly catching you out on acceleration?
I really appreciate your honesty with this. You could have kept quiet about it, but you explained what happened, so we can learn from it. As someone who is about to take up biking (got my CBT in a few weeks), it's good to know. Loving your videos in general - currently working my way through your Norway trip and enjoying it a lot! Keep up the good work!
Thank you Martin - appreciate the kind words!
There is a strange disconnect when riding a electric bike with no engine noise very little rotational mass & all them newton's dropping like Thor's hammer . No one can accuse you of not doing a proper test.
Glad you’re ok and you’re straightforward honesty’s appreciated. Looking forward to hearing the comments from Zero! Helmet replacement? All the best......
You ride motorbikes long enough and sooner or later you will hit the deck. It dents the pride, damages the bike but at least you walked away. When we met at the Excel it was my first ride back on the MT after doing an almost identical thing. Turned the bike on, pulled out of the car park, opened the throttle a little and within a second I was on the deck. Yamaha reckon the bike needs to initialize the speed sensors between the wheels for a short distance before the traction control sets, so even if you have TC it's not infallible. £1000.00 damage but all sorted now. Loads of torque, cold days, damp roads. Glad your ok.
Cheers Banditman - always good to hear from you!
Very glad your ok,had a very similar experience last autumn,just my pride was damaged fortunately,bike got fixed cheaply,happens to everyone one of us,keep going your one of the best
Definitely needs traction control if it was the bike or not. So much torque straight to the ground can be uncontrollable. Glad your safe.
Dude! I'm so glad your ok. Your my favorite person on this youtube. Greetings all the way from Illinois USA. Keep your chin up and your awesome videos coming.
Thank you and will do!
Thank god youre ok even a small accident can cause a lot of damage to the human body
As for the bike let’s see how good the insurance company is
All the best
Glad you are alright TMF. I personally think a spill like this is not a bad thing as long as not hurt as it is polite reminder we are not invincible! Ride safe.
So glad you're OK. A good advert for protective gear and lady luck paying just enough attention to see you down relatively safely! Having had head and spine injuries that ultimately left me unconscious, with months or rehab, lost job, lost house, no bike and as yet no ability to ride..... I wouldn't wish serious injury on anyone.
No big deal! You are OK and the minor damage can be easily fixed. Cheer up!
Oh dear TMF, hero to Zero in one corner 😎
Glad you're ok.
Always enjoy your reviews, keep it up sir !!
PS well done for being honest enough to show it, many would have just hidden it - Real man !!! :-)
Hi mate pleased to see your ok! Shit happens unfortunately, i look forward to your long term review of the bike in future, keep up the good work all the best.
Glad to hear you're alright. Good thing it was a low-side and not a nasty high-side. Hope Zero can get it repaired quickly and let you finish the long-term review.
Fingers crossed!
A shame about the accident, good that nothing serious happened to you, the bike can be fixed. Hope to see more reviews and updates soon, you have one of the best moto-vlogging channels on youtube!
I guess your last title was written in shock! It does show that we're all watching though! Ride safe, thanks for your reviews and efforts for the motorcycle community.
The Bike Looks awsome mate im happy that you are ok thats all that matters, the bike is just a thing, you got one of the best channels to watch out there keep up the great job.
Im all in to the new Electric stuff need to see this bike in action i will wait for a full review on this one.
Glad you're OK ,this type of spill will happen to most of us at some time in our motorcycling life . When a incident like this does happen I think it will now make you a more aware rider 😉
Ian.
Traction control is a huge asset on any bike -- not just those with high torque/power engines. I (apparently) hit something slick accelerating out of a city corner on my 33hp 400cc maxi-scooter, spun the rear tire loose and highsided before I even knew what happened.
Even 125's break loose on drain covers or mud left from a building site.
Well yes the good news, you're ok! It's just a machine after all, mate. Thank you for sharing, this could and has happened to any of us. I've test rode a Zero SR last year and the torque is tremendous. There were two modes from what I recall, one mode brought on the goods slowly the other just ramped up full-on like being shot out of a barrel. Glad you're ok!
I’m very glad you’re ok! You’re rapidly becoming one of the Brits I most admire. While John Surtees and Jim Clark approach deity status, you provide volumes of useful motorcycling information to your friends across the pond. Thank you.
Blimey, who would have thought that!!!
Glad you are OK! That is the main thing! I had a crash in May 2017, but don't dwell on it, get back on a bike ASAP!
Glad to hear you talking about it. Hopingly any aches and pains will pass away and you'll be good as new. Glad to hear you practice ATGAT All The Gear All The Time. That is the worlds largest grinding disk under those two wheels and it will chew us up if we don't protect ourselves. Thanks for sharing.
Sorry to hear about your spill,these things happen,best wishes fella.
honestly thought this was your first click bait video lol. Glad your ok though!
Glad you are ok MSF..
Honest and informative review of the event..
Bad luck mate, glad that you are OK. I test rode this bike on the weekend and can understand that the massive torque of this bike and how easy this would be to spin up the back wheel particularly in greasy conditions. Perhaps the manufacturer should have made traction control as a standard feature.
Watched enough of your videos to know you were riding safely. Feel sorry for Zero hopefully they can learn something from it ! Remember it was a test bike ! Just glad you weren't seriously injured.
So sorry to hear about the tumble, hope you’re well and hope DSR gives you a replacement soon.
Glad you are ok mate. It’s so easily done.
I was expecting a totaled crashed bike. The Zero is hardly damaged, at least rideable home. Glad you were “dressed for the crash”. Now it’s been dropped,you can ride like hell.
G'day mate! Sorry to hear this but very happy that you were relatively unhurt. Take care.
I'm very glad you are okay. Of all the TH-camr's reviewing bikes, you appear to be one of the safest riders. It really makes me think that the Zero absolutely needs traction control.
Thanks Garth - I do try to ride safely, this one certainly surprised me!
A cautionary tale indeed. Glad you are OK & hope that doesn't put other potential loaners off.I'm just shocked that some have given this the thumbs down.
All that’s important is you’re ok Mr F. The bike is repairable, only minor damage. Measure of the man to put out an open and honest video taking responsibility. Looking forward to the review when you get the bike back. Take care out there Mr F.
I'm a regular follower of your videos, which I thoroughly enjoy, in sunny Australia. Accidents happen and a low speed fall on a bike is one of those things really, given that you only have two wheels to maintain contact with the road. Just really glad that you're OK and not seriously hurt - your personal safety and health are the two most important things in life for you and your loved ones. Motorbikes can be repaired, usually humans can be also, but sometimes with great difficulty. Take care and thanks so much for the ongoing reviews :-)
Thank you John - appreciated!
Damage not that bad TMF, look forward to you doing full review in few weeks time. I mostly feel sorry for Zero, this is such bad press for them and the bike and the tech are fantastic, you were just tad unlucky. Hope you manage to get full review done in coming weeks.
So do I!
Gutted for you, and glad you appear not to be too shaken or blaming yourself. These electric bikes need to have not only ABS, but smarter sensitivity on the throttle at slow speeds to 'step it down' like a virtual gearing. Would be interested to hear a follow-up on this, how the dealer took it, repairs, etc.
Good to see you are safe and well. Happens to the best of us. Hopefully the premium on the insurance is not too high.
Jeesy peeps TMF, not what you want just before a skiing holiday. Glad your ok. A very useful video for me to watch because I am seriously considering an electric bike and liked the FX, the main reason is the torque from standstill but I am afraid with so much of it I will be waiting until these things have traction control. These videos you make are very helpful, thanks. P.s. had a big fall on the slopes today and slid into a young couple, took the young lass right out, bet she’s aching tomorrow, I was gutted
As Max Cliffird use to say "there's no such thing as bad publicity" ...
Until he found out !
Glad your ok and like many others hoping you get the Zero back for your review. They could come out looking good if they can turn the repair around quickly .
Glad to hear you're not too sore. It doesn't look all that bad to me. From what you showed here, a box of parts and a Saturday morning ... you can be riding by lunch time.