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Zero DSR/X first impression from ex-Zero owner
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- ADVENTURE??
🥼 Merch! newzeroland.cr...
🏍 Bike: 2023 Zero DSR/X
🥝 Location: New Zealand
🎵 Music:
LuKremBo
/ lukrembo
Thanks for watching!
- newzeroland -
#zeromotorcycles #dsrx #newzeroland
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Correction: the DSR/X frame is new. It's stronger and beefier for more ADVENTURE.
MORE!!
Its not like that will change anything.
No fuel, no oil, no maintenance, no spark plugs, no chain, no clutch, no gears, no smoke, no noise. No air intake, no air filters, no engine damage from water, sand or dust, no oil filter, no fuel filter. On the trail or city, it can go about 200 miles, very comfortable, and amazing design. Charges on any outlet. For the time being, I think it is very nice.
@@forgotten_world I think this would be a fun bike to take on a local trail or dirt track, not so sure about anything long distance, although I’d like to try
@@forgotten_world you forgot.... no customer service !!! . But its a cool bike .. if you just do gravel roads an experia with a bigger front wheel would be much much better .. same weight . . Much bigger batt and much faster charging... oh yeah zero s tech bugs are still there after 10 years ..
This edit is so good, nice smooth delivery of information throughout and perfect integration of supplemental roll. The gags had me laughing out loud not for shock value but for how topical and relatable the information you are presenting is. Best of TH-cam! It may as well be a humorous eulogy presented at the wake of Zero Motorcycles product development "it was a good (product development) even though that was years ago, we had some good times, I've heard that right up until the end (Zero Motorcycles product development) they were really turning things around trying to make changes in their life, too bad they didn't survive and make better choices about fast charging, but we'll always remember the good times."
Hahaha thanks so much! That comment was epic XD I've gotten a lot of backlash over this video today so I'm glad you liked it. Nobody wants their own bikes to be criticized, and I get that. I'd be angry too. I just couldn't join the sea of positive youtubers who sing Zero's praises for making small, incremental changes every year. We need something more substantial, especially if we're paying substantial money for it.
You've summed up my thoughts on this perfectly.
Given the cost of the DSR/X, I think I'd rather go back to my old DSR, which was absolutely great from a riding perspective, and once I'd fitted the Charge Tank, was getting me around 85 miles (mixed road riding) to a 90 minute charge.
But, like you say, I wouldn't go back, because, well… DC rapid charging is just more… rapidy.
Thanks John! I was pretty harsh on Zero this time, but we've been waiting YEARS for a big improvement, and this felt like a kick in the balls. I genuinely hope they build something better soon, because this isn't helping anyone decide to sell their petrol bikes.
Worth noting the Zero video clips are mostly Canyonlands and Monument Valley, both places that are served by CCS chargers (I know, I've ridden both in my Energica). So not sure where they claim that AC charging in the 'wild' is better; but not at the places they seem to have filmed at.
Yeah man! With more range, finding a charging station isn't an issue anymore.
Nice video. I'm still not a CCS fan, like on Energicas yet.. If you map out where CCS's are in America, you're not going to find many outside of highways and large metro areas. Heck right now in northern New England/White Mountains there is just one, and it's almost at the canadian border.. Tesla Superchargres along the highways and that doesn't help us at all. So for now, I'll be keeping my 16SR w/10kw charging where I can find L2's scattered all over.
I've ridden all over New Hampshire and Vermont on an Energica... plenty of chargers, wasn't a problem. The eastern part of Maine is the only desert; where you are forced to use J1772 if you want to cross to Canada that way. But if you look at map... tons of additional CCS being added as I write this.
First to the frontier
and YOU KNOW I searched the comments immediately at 2:00 ... well played sir
Goddamit pinaero I was trying to get the first comment
Speed demon commenter.
you know what's even more impressive than being the first commentor, being the last commentor.
I love how perfectly the clips in this demonstrate your points, especially the "we're talking about YOU!" scene. Haha, A windscreen, you're kinda right about that! Some might say You;re a niche case but it sounds like Zero is focused on their _own_ niche. Because they're basically doing the same thing Future Motion was doing with the One wheel a few years ago:
FM: Here's a product we'd like to ride!
Consumers: Uhh, cool. What about one _we'd_ like to ride?
FM: ...Here's one in bluuuue!
HAHA that's a great analogy. I like that Zero is listening to their riders, but they need to ramp up the turn-around time on these changes. If this bike had better range and faster charging, no joke, I would sing its praises and commend Zero for their effort.
@@NewZeroland they need to ramp up alot of things.
Spot on as usual. The SRF from 2019 looked like a big step forward for Zero finally offering a big and fast motorcycle. But it barely offered any advantage on range despite the bigger battery. Charge speed was up from previous gen2 but then already beaten by Energica offering CCS. And since 2019 they just revealed new colours and styles of the same tech. Look at what Energica released in that timespan 😮
Soooo true! The Experia is a completely new motorcycle from the ground up, while the DSR/X is basically the same thing they had last year. Did they think the SR/F platform was good enough? And the "new" motor... Why did they spend their money and resources redesigning the motor to have less horsepower??
@@NewZeroland now two people have met who both drive energica and have never ridden the zero dsr/x. hans was hit hard by zero because his app was banned. i use the app myself and i really like it. the other unfortunately has no support in new zealand. no comparison to my good support 3 kilometers away. sam, you always talk very friendly in your videos, not like many ice drivers about the electric motorcycles.
unfortunately I think it's even worse when you're bashing in a friendly and sneaky way. very bad. I really enjoyed many of your videos. now it is questionable.
Range wasn't up from the Gen2 bikes when the SRS was released as it wasn't as efficient.
Charging wasn't up either. You can get 11 kW of charging on the Gen2 bikes if you buy all the accessory charging, while the Gen3 bikes offer 12 kW, but in terms of miles per hour, because of the lower efficency, the Gen3 bikes charge slower.
@@gasdive yep! Lots of cool new features and better build-quality, but actual practical use hasn't changed.
@@gww8026 What app are you talking about?
And almost all bikers youtubers and even traditional press have great words for eMC, except YammiNoob which is really stupid on the argument, I would say on purpose (but he's stupid and divisive on many arguments). He's like Toyota, actively working against progress and electrification for no reason and giving no valid reason.
The vast majority of negative comments are from the comments, that didn't even tried it.
Test rode one at Eurosport Cycle in Ft Worth. Nathan, one of the salesman asked me if I wanted to ride the demo. Took him up on the offer. The suspension, power, brakes were all superb. I have a Livewire, and I like the feel of the brakes on the Zero much more. I can two finger which feels more responsive than the H-D. The two gripes I have of the zero is no DCFC, and the way the cruise operates, can’t increase, decrease, or resume. The heated grips, where you can set the SOC when charging,and reverse are great features as well.
Hey nice! Glad to hear it. I'm sure it's a blast to ride, just like all other Zeros. I just wish it had more.
Ever since i saw zeros video i got excited. Not because of the bike, but because i knew you would make a video on it.
HAHA oh man, that made my day. Thank you XD
I appreciate your honesty. I wouldn’t be so nice if I had a channel. I have a new SRF that has been trouble starting at first month. Zero and dealer have completely ghosted me. I had to get a lawyer. Sucks
Aw maaaaan, I'm so sorry to hear that. Way too many people have had to take Zero to court. I really hope they sort it out and make things right for you.
Hey Sam, Great video as usual :) !
I’m not entirely sure but I think the sad truth for zero and CCS is that they have an incompatible battery. At least when I google online I see that the CCS goes down to 200V while the Zero battery package is at 116v. I’m afraid that zero will either have to wait until CCS goes down, or design a complete new drivetrain.
Yep, you're totally right. Zero needs to rework their pack voltage. There are some ways of keeping the battery the same as it is now, but switching voltage while charging. Hopefully they install CCS soon!
$35,000 USD !! Someone needs to tell them "Ya dreaming Zero Motorcycles"
Right??
Thanks for the video and: You speak from my heart!
In my case it was 2 years of Zero SR/S. I am so sick of Zero.
I now ride a BMW R1250GS and motorcycling is fun again.
An Energica has simply been too expensive for me. I hope that the prices will eventually become acceptable. Until then, I'm enjoying every turn....
Greetings from the Alps!!!
Cheers Thilo! I understand.. it's sad to say but electrics are still crazy expensive. Lots of people tell me they've sold their Zeros and gone back to gas. Zero still can't compete.
Superb video Sam. I haven't even read or watched any reviews of the DSR/X yet, so I'm glad I watched this first. You already know what I think about the appalling lack of decent aerodynamics on all mainstream electric bikes....admittedly it's much harder to justify a recumbent riding position on a bike built to have off-road capability, but you're spot on about the charging, or lack of it. To be fair, I think the styling of the DSR/X is very good, and it looks much better than the old DSR (which I too have fond memories of, mostly). But then there's all that extra weight...and cost! And most of all, there's the Energica Experia!
Thanks man! That's it exactly. This bike isn't convincing anyone to sell their petrol bikes. It isn't even convincing people to trade in their old Zeros. We need a bigger update than this.
@@NewZeroland Absolutely agree, I dont think you were harsh on them, is a 30K bike with not even electronic suspension, we need some accountability here. Something I struggle with, is the rear break, why has to be on the right foot, would be a lot easier to ride and have more control to have everything on the handlebar like a maxiscooter....
(Repeated comment from your latest video)
I love all your videos (content and the awesome presentation), and your videos made a contribution to me deciding to purchase a Zero (my initial SR).
However, some balanced feedback for what it's worth. Most of your videos so far came from personal experience, and they were compelling. But this felt like a rant. Specs matter, but ride and feel matter a lot more (like your SR/F video would point out).
Even as a big fan of yours, I found this video to be extremely negative, as it's a "DSR/X First impression" video *without even having seen the bike!* - and this seemed like a rant about the company (yes, you do make theoretically valid points, but most of it is ranting about past bad experiences or the company). If you named this video "Rants about Zero with no personal experience about the DSR/X", the content would be spot on (and really well made and hilarious as usual).
Everybody needs to course correct occasionally - I hope that you can go back to more videos based on actual personal experience, and with more of your positivity about electrics and progress.
- Thanks for the videos, a big fan of yours
Hey thanks! That means a lot, and I definitely understand. It was a rant, and I should have called it a rant. Like I said in the follow-up video, I'm sure the DSR/X is fun to ride. It probably feels way better than the DSR. Zero has definitely leveled up their designs and build-quality since they came out with the SR/F platform. I still felt it was necessary to open peoples' eyes a bit so everybody looks at this "new bike" more realistically. It can be the most fun bike in the world but if you can't go further or charge faster than Zero could 6 years ago, that info deserves to be shared. If the firmware is still buggy and Zero is fighting warranty claims on battery replacements and having people sign NDAs in court, that info should also be shared. I don't mean to be so negative.. I just wanted to be real with people, when none of the journalists were. Don't worry though.. I promise not to review another bike before actually riding it, and I promise to be more positive in future videos :D Thanks again! - fan of a fan
1500 miles on my 2022 Energica Eva Ribelle RS (Delivery to me 9 Sep 2021). Like it Love it! Every other E-Motorcycle makers is years behind !!!
Niiiice!!! So happy to hear it 😁 You're 100% right. Energica is so far ahead right now.
I must admit it was a tough choice between the DSR/X, DSR W/ Charge Tank & Energica Experia. I ordered a DSR/X yesterday, FWIW, here is what made me chose.
Compared to Energica:
- Very few DC charging stations in my region (Paris outskirts), they're all on highway service areas, where I don't intend to ride*
- Plenty of AC 22kW and 7kW stations around, including my 7kW WallBox at home**. I occasionally need fast-charge at home, (pickup my wife & go out after work)
- Experia is more expensive
- The Zero dealer I signed with took my old Zero DS as trade-in at a decent price (tried 3 dealers the 2 others weren't that interested)
Compared to DSR w/ Chargetank:
- 6kW DSR/X lets me keep the big fake-tank storage + the two on the side + under saddle so I can carry cables, rain gear & tire-repair kit without additional luggage
- I liked the look of the DSR/X better (nothing rational there)
- Heated grips (I ride to work year-long unless there's snow on the road), that's something I missed on the DS compared to my previous BMW
- Traction control is a nice bonus, I did occasionally wheel-spin my DS on the wet with the original tires (got much better with better tires, though)
*Note : I never use my bikes to travel more than ~250km, I hate riding on highways, I prefer the car for that purpose (I do use DC for my car).
** I'm working on custom cabling to be able to charge at 6kW on a single phase, I might do a video about it.
Cool man! I've heard really good things about the DSR/X, and you made the right choice getting the charge tank. If AC is all you have, Zero still seems to be the best option. Keep me posted on how it goes. Congrats!
Also this was a great opportunity for them to get you to go out to test it and have a full unbiased view on it. Since you rode the Experia as well it would have been great to see the difference. But I guess Zero doesn't like REAL feed back.
How huge would that have been?? To reach out to one of their biggest fans and promoters, to try and make things right after the whole drama with my bike, to invite me to a press launch to shoot a positive video for a change. I mean, they saw I went to Italy and did that just a few months ago 😂😂😂 That kind of gesture could have swayed me back to Zero, if the bike was actually better. Someone gave me a hard time about "reviewing" a bike without riding it, but without an invite, this is all I can do.
@@NewZeroland You'd have to have agreed to only write a review that never mentions that any other bikes exist, much less mention their names. Not sure you would have agreed to that, though plenty of your 'journalist' seemed to not mind compromising their integrity.
@@NewZeroland It would have been really awesome to have seen you at that press release brother! I would have loved to have seen your honest opinion on it because I mean we have negative reviews and positive reviews with Teslas, why not the EV Bikes? It should encourage the companies to be more innovative and do better for the consumers not the investors. I don't think I saw one bad review about the DSRX with any of the people invited to the event (Go figure). WE NEED YOU MORE THAN EVER!!!
@@ronaldb479 hahahaha thanks bro! 😂 I just ask myself.. if I was going to buy a new bike, whatever brand it was, would I want a previous owner to tell me what their experiences were like? Or would I just ignore all the bad stories because the bike is fun to ride? 😂
@@NewZeroland LOL EXACTLY!
Thank you!
Nailed it “…..nah, we’ve gone too far”.
Bwahaha
Your vid clips are always great.
Thanks!
You hit the nail on the head in this video.
Thanks 😁
The 19” front wheel is a big deal. The Experia has a 17” which arguably does not make it an adventure bike. I care too much about this and have left comments elsewhere asking Experia to add a big front wheel and a longer suspension lol
Yeah that's a great point. The titles they used were important. Touring vs Adventure. But it wouldn't take much tweaking to get the Experia ready for off-roading. One thing that bugs me is the spoked wheels don't come standard on the Zero.
@@NewZeroland maybe if we bug Rally Raid enough, they will make an adventure kit for the Experia. I have one on my CB500X that is pretty beastly. Though I'd hate to spend thousands to get these already expensive bikes.where I want them.
@@NewZeroland Don't you think the Experia is too heavy for off-road? Or do you get paid for the fact that 1kg on Zero is heavier than 1kg on Energica? How many spokes does the Experia have as standard?
Great video. Fully agree with you. The problem with Zero is that their battery design and power electronics operate at too low a voltage to support DC fast charging. They should have bit the bullet and designed a new pack layout and power electronics that can support DC fast charging. And they needed to do this a few years ago. It's unfortunate. Because the more better options on the market the more we as consumers win. It's also unfortunate because Energica doesn't sell in Canada. There is a Zero dealer a 30min ride from my house. I want to love the DSR/X. But I just can't. It looks great, but it really needs a modern battery and power electronics.
Man, that's it exactly. I want Zero to improve and make better bikes too, because when people think "electric motorcycle" they think of Zero. When Zero brings out something disappointing, it sends the wrong message about the whole industry. If they won't build something better, I have no choice but to tell people about other options.
@@NewZeroland well I think, as an engineer, developing a totally new pack (design) AND a totally new motor, requires much more R&D than we assume here. Let's hope they bring it in their first next release. I can understand it's hard for them. At least I'm happy they offer an electric bike, since there are so few yet. I'm glad I was able to buy a semi affordable SR from 2014 this year!
@@NewZeroland because of course buying a fossil bike is WAY worse (damn they are so incredibly inefficient)
@@bq5577x not to keep comparing Zero to Enregica, but Energica did exactly that. The Experia has a brand new frame, battery, motor, body, everything. Your 2014 SR is still a great bike! I hope Zero steps up their game soon, or they won't give you a reason to upgrade.
Energica does sell in Canada and are legal to import. There just aren't any dealers yet. There are some owners up in the Great White North.
You're right. Only problem, the Energica Experia isn't cheaper. The overall starting point now, is 10.000€ (for us in the EU) above than bevor. For a eMotorbike you can use for traveling with 2Up. Including Stand and Luggage-boxes. And don't talk about All-Terrain. The terrain I saw in the the Videos, my old R75/5 can do it. Let's talk about traveling-bikes.
For more than 30k€ no one will even thing about buying a eMotorbike. Not a ZERO, not a ENERGICA.
Hey I agree with you. Electric motorcycles shouldn't cost more than electric cars.
3:20 oh, that's good news, Zero died to me when that happened, and I forgot to check in on Zero after that. Do they have DC Fast Charging yet?
Nope lol. That's the saddest part.
5:33 and ... nope
I don't commute, so my 2016 SR is just a pleasure toy. Which makes it nothing but frustrating. It is such a gigantic blast to ride, but the range is just about 30% too short to be comfortable going the places I want to go, and with 8.5 hour charging, it's just that much more infuriating that I can't go that little bit further to get where I want to go. I won't go into the aftermarket quick-charging setup that turned out to be a humongous fiasco.
I would sell my SR if it weren't for the fact that I would have to pay someone to take it off my hands. I can't justify taking that kind of a loss, so I'll just have to keep it and make the most of it. Maybe at some point I'll even manage to engineer a functional quick-charging setup for it.
I will never buy another Tesla for all the same reasons I won't consider another Zero. Everybody complains about the lack of physical controls on Teslas, so what do they do? Remove the last few remaining physical controls. And according to recent reports, that's going to happen soon on all their models across the board. Raising the price of Autopilot out of reach, and making the price of FSD pretty much Unobtanium is an admission that it's not actually going to happen within the next decade. Autopilot has features that are nothing like the technical challenge of FSD and make driving much less of a chore in conditions that don't allow fun driving anyway, and jacking the price sky-high is a completely indefensible dick move. Trying to get parts and service from Tesla is just as much a dumpster fire as from Zero. And good luck getting something fixed under warranty because Tesla will say it's "within tolerance" and wait for your warranty to run out so they can charge you outrageous sums to have your car out of commission for months because they're too stupid to have parts on hand and have to order absolutely everything and have it shipped halfway around the planet. Meanwhile, they have huge buildings that are 90% empty space. But apparently they don't have room to keep parts in stock locally... 🤔🙄
But getting back to Zero: why would anybody in their right mind buy one today? I'm completely at a loss to understand.
Thanks Mark! I feel your pain. I felt your pain for years haha. Such a fun bike but still so limited. The biggest point I can make about Zero's new bike is that if you already own an older Zero, there's still no reason to upgrade.
Great video and all the clips were spot on lol. I'm headed to the Zero factory this weekend to hopefully get to test ride the DSR/X. I'm saving my thoughts until then. One thing I will say about the Experia, Energica has not said much of anything since day 1 of pre-orders. After 3 months that's a bit disappointing as well.
Nice!! Let me know what you think of it. Yeah after Energica's press event in June and then Energica Week in early September, I guess they've been busy. From what I've heard the Experia demo bikes should be in the US next month.
In europe there is a run on the experia . . And energica is setting up extra production lines . Its hard cause of parts shortage.. but first batches are sold out ! .. believe me a lot of people want an energica with rider position like the experia ... .. i ll get mine hopefully this year ..
@@gmy33 That's great to hear! I got word from my dealer here in the U.S. that the first batch of demo bikes + customer bikes is on it's way. Probably won't arrive until November though.. hopefully customs doesn't hold them up. The last few Energica shipments have gone through the Port of Miami in Florida and they seem to be much faster then California customs.
@@NewZeroland My first impression is the build quality is great. I also really enjoyed the seat height. Being 5'11 I could flat foot, where most ADV bikes seem to be much taller. I believe the seat was in the 'low position' though. One bad thing to note was it felt the handlebars were too far forward, my arms started to bug me and it was only a ~15-20min ride. I would have to get additional risers if I wanted the DSR/X.
We were only allowed to ride in Standard mode, but as expected with electric bikes the speed/torque was amazing. It handled well but you can 'feel' the weight of the battery once you start leaning, but it's very well balanced. Rolling to a stop you feel incredibly balanced and comfortable at slow speeds.. or I did.
The bike is insanely quiet. I was also impressed by that. My Zero FXS made more noise.
I'm excited to get my Experia but if for whatever reason that didn't work out, I think the DSR/X is a great option.
@@mleask wow nice! Thanks for the review. I believe it all. Everybody's been saying the DSR/X feels great to ride. Hopefully I get a chance to test one out next year.
Yeah I'll still with my FX for my offrosding adventures. I regularly dump the bike on its side when trail riding and I am very thankful it is not a 35k bike with a ton of delicate body work.
Dude the FX is where it's at. Lightweight and fun! If Zero wants to make a long range bike with a big battery, it needs faster charging to take advantage of that.
Things that you don't know obviously: in EUROPE it's possible to use a previous Charge Tank from the SR/F on the DSR/X, otherwise the new Charge Tank will be available from Q1-2023. On my SR/F it loads at 11.6 kW so when you suggest that "it doesn't work as we think" this is misleading.
Sorry, I should have specified "in the US" where people have to install dual-charging-ports to make it work. In Europe you guys have it easy!
And this is why (even before I saw this video) I'm buying an Energica Esperia. DC fast charging and a larger battery pack (22.6KWhr, vs 17.6KWhr for the DSR-X). Can't wait.
Yep!! 23kW charging vs a max of 12.6kW charging on the Zero 😂
What's strange to me is that they don't do 11 kW AC charging.
I disagree that DC charging is a must. Of course it's better, but for a cheaper bike than an energica I'd accept AC charging.
Almost all stations can provide 11 kW, and that's pretty close to 1C (above which Zero doesn't want to go with their cells anyway).
I have a 9,6 kW charging Zero and it's great. The return on charge time saved vs weight and cost of the chargers doesn't make much sense above 11 kW anyway.
You can add a 6 kw charger to get 12.6 kw. But then you'll only get full power on a 22 kW AC station. Still slower than DC, but ok-ish. For myself, the 20-25 min stops I do for DC charging are prefect. If I were to get a DSR/X I would not even consider one without the charger upgrade.
11kW isn't 1C anymore. Zero's new batteries are 15.2kWh nominal, so they'd need a 15.2kW charger to get that charge time down to 1 hour.
@@NewZeroland true that:) but kiiinda getting in the vicinity of 1C:D
Nailed it 👌 really awsome review process from real experience!
Thanks Ray! I used to be a fan of Zero, so maybe that's why I'm so hard on them. I want them to do better.
That 'zero' is gaining a whole new meaning ... ;-)
DSR/Next lol
I think you should have included the charge time comparison to Energica's Experia, just to clown on Zero a bit more. Honestly, i'm 100% with you. If i had that kinda bike money, i'd go straight for the Energica. They need to up their marketing game somehow.
Haha yeah, maybe that should have been the ending. If Zero isn't making something that can replace gas bikes, I'll tell people about the other electric bikes that can.
Hi! I am selling my Zero and got a HD Livewire. Reason, it was at a 33% discount. Love the DC charging. Oh FYI: Got extended warranties. I will make a nice video on the LW soon.
Dude nice!! Livewires are amazing bikes. You made the right choice, man 😎
Yeah, Max the DSR is the bomb! It’s a great move that the DSRX has a fatter belt and guard though; if my DSR had those I’d feel eminently more confident to ride long gravel road routes. I still feel like we’re a decade away from having an off-road eMoto with the weight, range, and charging that’ll allow me to go off and play with my petrol MX mates though. But I think the road bikes are due for quicker progress, with Energica going great and I’m expecting Ducati and one or two of the big boys to start their ev journey fairly soon. Which makes me a bit nervous about my Zero’s potential for a big chunk of depreciation?
Too true, Jez! It's hard to compete with Max. But then it's even harder to compete with petrol bikes. I love what the Stark Varg is doing.. it just needs fast charging.
Max had a chain once upon a time. Bike of legends :) I heard Mad even went toe to toe with a Hayabusa once. Such a beast!
@@pinaero Hi mate, yeah, I've done most of my mileage on him with the chain fitted, but it totally killed the front sprocket and used to make terrible noises and judders, and eventually I broke down in the middle of nowhere. So I switched to belt and I much prefer it, but the few times I've been on gravel since, it really didn't like it; got a few stones under the belt and it stuttered and complained and I felt it was inevitable it would eventually go ping when I was in the middle of nowhere, on my own, with no-one around for at least a whole day's walking, and without a phone signal - there's not a lot out there in rural NZ! Wish they did a belt guard.
Ducati is replacing Energica for MotoE next year (I would like a mixed championship at this point).
So we are probably going to see one 1 year from now, or 2024 at max.
@@IIARROWS those are strictly racebikes with crazy carbon fiber battery packs.. I don't see those going on the road anytime soon, especially not for an affordable price. BUT! Exciting times. I can't wait to see them in action next year.
I forgot to weigh in because I spent the last year battling migraines. Anyway, I actually do agree that a 3kW AC capability on an electric adventure bike is unacceptable, because I also have experienced backcountry electrical charging, and AC infrastructure is far cheaper to deploy and more widely available. That RV park plug that delivers 9kW is likely the best you’ll get once you’re out there.
That said, a 1C rate via CCS DC is essential before getting out to the backcountry. So, I think both Zero and Energica are wrong. Energica is closer, but Zero has made an “all hat and no cattle” adventure bike.
I do not know which I’d be less troubled by repair issues, but I think Energica being nicer to their customers doesn’t prove that they’re more repairable, especially once their sales volume grows to match. I still haven’t seen a parts fiche for Energica or a real repair manual. These things matter for adventure bikes. You should be able to travel without being a charismatic person, so to speak.
Yep, I agree. If Energicas had 6kW AC chargers, they'd be way more useful in the US. If Zeros had DC charging, they would be almost untouchable if it weren't for the customer service. I'm at the point where even if my Energica catches on fire, I would still buy another Energica because I know the company would take care of me.
Loved the intro.
You complained that nobody compared zero with energica but you didn't really do it yourself.
I appriciate your criticisem on zero - we all know their parts and service are unobtainable.
Have an 2018 fx and im 50% of the time jumping on mountain hills. Im afraid that my long range, car replacing commuter will have to be an energica.
Thanks! Good point haha. As soon as Zero introduces a model with DC charging, I'll compare it to Energica. I really think an FX is the ultimate off-road bike. This DSR/X is way too heavy and expensive to be fun in the dirt.
Great vid, you nailed it 110% ;)
Thanks! 110% battery charging, Zero style 😂
The moment I saw it, I thought this was the stupidest thing that Zero has come out with yet without even having to fully explore why.
As much as I would like some of the features of the new SR/x platforms, especially traction control for the wet months, I still think the '17 SR I have is the best bike they've built. Lightest, best range, best acceleration, least expensive, etc. (yes other models may do better in one area but not as a whole package). So five years later and they did make them look a little better or at least more like every motorcycle out there.
The reason they will never add DC fast charging is because it's not something they can buy off the shelf like they do with everything else the slap on their bikes, such as their current water soluble AC chargers. Forget about whatever excuse they may try and cook up, they fired all of the engineers that could have brought DC fast charging and all the rest left to work at LiveWire.
Hahahahahaha holy crap your comment was epic 😂 I agree man. They made an amazing new platform in 2018 with the SR/F, but it wasn't a big enough change to the usability of the bikes. Since then, they've just been trickling features onto it with differing body styles. We need more!!
Sam, I hoped with all hope that both the Experia and/or the DSR/X would be the bike(s) I'd sell my 2017 DSR to replace. But I went back to gas purchasing a 2022 Ducati Multistrada V4S Sport for LESS THAN either of these EV bikes. I'm sure EVer's will talk all day about the lack of cost of fluids, maintenance, blah blah blah. And the MSV4S has more USABLE tech than both the Experia and DSR/X. The suspension ALONE is mind-bending. I hope to return to the EV world someday. Proud to have been an early adopter of 2 wheel EVs, but today is where I live and I love the freedom of carefree riding.
No worries bro! If it isn't fun for you, it needs to change. As much as electric motorcycles have improved over the past 7 years since I bought my Zero SR, I still wish they were advancing faster. On my recent road trip, I still felt like an early adopter. When will that feeling stop??
@@NewZeroland You have been and continue to be one of the most supportive individuals in the 2-wheel EV change. But gosh 7 years and the infrastructure has not improved enough to support the ever-increasing EV adoption rate. I know you have a ton more years to ride than I do, so 'waiting' just isn't the right thing for me. I just want to ride and ride and ride.
I love this Sam! Made me smile, big thumb up!
Thanks bro!
The future is not looking good for Zero motorcycles. Their poor leadership and even worse customer service will seal their fate.
Yep, well said. Even if they put DC charging on this bike, there are still other, bigger problems Zero needs to address.
Unfortunatly, since they see themselves as a "boutique riding experience" rather than a transportation company...I doubt it will get better.
Same range (edit: LESS range) than my Zero S but 27.000 euros when the S cost me like 11.400 euros. I like the bike(even more than the Experia despite the lack of CCS) but count me out. This also applies to Energica. Electric motorcycles unfortunately aren't evolving fast enough, and yet the prices are skyrocketing
Yeah, I agree with you. Electric motorcycles shouldn't cost more than electric cars.
New Nissan leafs are still vastly more expensive than the average electric motorcycle.
Man I can see why you got your job, those animations are absolutely on point 😂.... I actually love them ☺️
But yeah I feel the same regarding the Zero, it's just getting left behind in a segment they should be absolute Kings of by now.
Sadly we know better but Jo public doesn't. So like how the Nissan Leaf has made people think batteries in all EVs need replacing after 5 years due to being the only EV on sale with no thermal management, I feel EV motorbikes will keep getting bad press due to Zero not keeping ups with the times.
I hope that made sence, I've only had 3 hours of sleep as I had to watch my Queen be laid to rest because I'm I'm English AF
Yesssss! Bro, so well said. That Leaf battery analogy was perfect. Zero SHOULD be kings right now. They still sell the most electric motorcycles, but only because people are unaware there are other options out there.
@@NewZeroland i love energica and zero. but not everyone who doesn't drive energica is stupid.
@@gww8026 I never said that. I said an older Zero is just as capable as a new one, and way cheaper.
Very well said. 👍🏻
Hmmmm? I like my 21 DSR more now , thanks for all the great info. enjoy your Energica .
You should! 😁 The DSR is freakin awesome.
The fanbases of these brands are so odd. I was looking at Zero and could find nothing but praise even regarding the cypher mess. Nice to see an honest review of owning one. Definitely leaning towards Energica as dealers have finally started importing them here
I feel ya man. Back when Zero was the only electric motorcycle option, it was easier to be a fan of what they were doing. Now other brands have flown by them and it's hard to justify buying one. In the end though, it's still personal preference. Ride them both if you can to see which you like more.
I think this bike is going to go a lot further than people think based on ratings. Look at Electric Cycle Rider's video on it, looks like he was on track to get 150 miles of real-world riding without a power tank. The price is the biggest obstacle, and lack of CCS. I'll be riding it soon.
I can't waaaait to see your video!
If this is true, considering a rapid charger option, this will be sufficient to achieve nice trips
Amen! So glad I didn't get an srf. Still Love my ribelle rs. Great video.
Cheers bro!
Hi Sam, you remember we bought an SR-F for my wife. Suddenly after some OTA update we now have an SR !!! No F !!! Thanks Sypher FU**ING - !
WHAT???? 😲 No way. You have to be kidding!
@@NewZeroland unfortunately not, I now have to take appointment with the dealer, as I have no way to install the proper firmware.
Love Zero for their help getting us to where we are today, but agree that it would be like buying a $100K car to go off-roading when you could just buy 4 semi-decent SUVs instead without fear of the damage caused. Video was awesome, particularly the beginning.
Thanks man! I'm with ya. Lots of new features and overall better build-quality, but practical riding use (range and charging speed) is the same.. for way more money. This isn't the direction we should be going with electric motorcycles.
Great summery & totally agree 👍 also that opening was priceless 😁
Haha thanks! Glad ya liked it.
Hey Sam, for your wife’s Ribelle, has she had any issues with the keyless start? Would she choose it again if she could?
Yeah sometimes it disconnects, or is too far away. It's kind of a pain, but makes it harder to steal 😂 I'd suggest the normal key, for sure.
wait, do you live near there? Matamata? wait, what am I saying, everyone in New Zealand lives near there, the island is only so big. still, SUPER envious you live in the best place on earth
Hahaha I'm about a 6 hour drive from Hobbiton, yeah :D It's a cool place! Cooler than I expected.
I am glad you said it. I kept looking and thinking I was missing something. No fast charging and no range increase makes it a no brainer - I won't buy it.
Thanks man. Yep, lots of new and improved parts but nothing where it really counts.
Sold my 2018 SR earlier this summer. Missed it, best commuter/run around bike ever even compared to scooters. Just got another SR 2020, just for commuting and run around. Glad they got rid of that stupid cypher store crap....but Zero is behind the curve now, no real innovation, think they are heading the way of Yahoo. I think the old SR and DSR is still better than the newer DSRX, SR, SR/F, SR/S. No real substantial difference between the old and new....range is still the same, charging time is longer with new, new is much heavier, all the other bells and whistles from the new has no meat to them.
Yeah man! They're not giving people a reason to trade in their old Zeros. The old bikes are still too good!
Hi,
I would guess that Zero tries to impress the middle-aged rider, that commutes with his fully packed and equipped Ducati Multistrada to work every day and makes a small tour sunday to get a coffee.
And the biggest Problem with niche-press is, that they are dependent on the products they try to rate. So if a company decides to not invite these journalists over, they can't cover the cost of buying the product and maintaining there business as media conpany. But that's with every niche - look who covers the working conditions in apple factories - surely not media specialized in testing apple products. And the same happened years ago here in Germany with VW-Dieselgate. The first to cover it where the major daily newspapers - not the automotive press. So I don't realy wonder, that there is no criticism against zero.
Keep up the great videos and have a nice day!
Simmie
Thanks Simmie! I appreciate it. What frustrates me the most is that those Multistrada riders aren't getting an electric replacement for their gas bike, because Zero still isn't making it.
Does anybody know from what movie the scene at 6:25 is coming from ?
That's from the tv show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
Cast wheels on an off road bike? Why no spokes if they've put a 19" front wheel on it?
Spoked wheels are an extra $1500 or something
Great intro!
Thanks!
I own 3 Zeros, 2 older MX models and a 2020 DS. What I find surprising is no one mentions or talks about is that when Zero put's 7.2 KWH battery pack or 14.4. That is a total falsehood. And they do this on all of their purported battery sizes all the way from 2008. In reality the 7.2 is a 6.3 and the 14.4 is a 12.6. No other manufacturer rates their battery at peak charge voltage. It always should be rated at nominal voltage. You can find the real battery size in the fine print on Zero's web site but you have to dig. It should be false advertising at the least.
Oh yeah, that's super annoying. To be fair, Livewire and Energica do the same. Tesla, too. You're right that they should just tell us the nominal capacity. That's the number we care about.
@@NewZeroland I believe my Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are rated at nominal voltage
Agree!!
ZERO NEEDS TO UP THE GAME AS THE ENERGICA IS FAR AHEAD IN TERMS OF A LOT OF FEATURES .
Yeah!!
thanks Sam!
hilarious intro!
😁
Thanks! 😂
Very informative
Cheers!
85 mile range? Sure, at 70 on the freeway. At half that speed you'd be getting more like 185 miles. For real-world no highway speeds around 40-50 you'd be getting about 140 miles.
Yeah off-road you'll be getting insanely good range. But getting TO the off-road areas usually requires riding on the highway, or at least country roads. Range hasn't increased at all and that's my problem with the bike.
Off-road range still varies a lot with conditions, including temperature but mostly the dirt quality. Having that variability in remote areas can strand you.
the jake Tapper Line. I remember seeing that live. awesome
Whoa! Bwahaha
Love the intro! Once Energica grows and starts eating up their business they will get hint.
😂 cheers man! I don't think that'll happen. It isn't worth it.
Nooooo…… Charging is a big deal at this price point. I will not be trading my DS for a DSR/X. This bike needs a CCS upgrade before I could consider it.
Yeah man! They had such potential.
👏 👏 👏 amen brother! Great video!!!
Haha cheers man!
Great video! Hilarious and honest. I'll keep burning dino juice until I'm done done. My little Royal Enfield Classic 500 sips fuel. Good to go. Keep trying, battery people. I'll just sit here and let ya'll sort it out.
Royal Enfields are fancy bikes so no shame in riding one of those 😁 Try out an Energica if you get the chance. Battery powered doesn't have to charge slow and get low range like Zeros.
32k for a motorcycle ?! Advantages : it goes away 2 seconds faster than some others. Cons: Everything else ! Thanks for your video, you are absolutely correct.
😂 cheers, glad ya liked it
So if you spec it up to the level of the Experia, it costs more than the Experia and takes twice as long to charge? How much are they smoking?
In the US you don't have to spec it up at all. It's already more money lol.
@@NewZeroland They need to go back to the drawing board, no-one will pay £30,000 for a £15,000 bike, well maybe premier league football players, they have the spare cash..
Great pints but one thing to help they still do have they cypher store. There are still upgrades to unlock. Zero should fire their marketing and communication team it really is a hot mess. They should then put that money to hire the best coders and developers in the game. Then again the government should put laws on the books giving buyers the right to repair as well as the right to modify/replace operating systems for tech.
For charging L2 I’m still good with it because here in Iowa not much access to fast charge and my ride is 99% of the time just in town so longer charge times don’t bug me and 99% is if a 110. also better on the battery. For me the issue with the other option is no dealers anywhere near me. Makes me want to open a energica store. I think I’d be busy with out of town people. 😂
Yeah man, it blows my mind. They're trying some crazy stuff over there. I wish they'd just invest in making a biger battery with faster charging. We don't need all this extra stuff. Motorcycling doesn't have to be so complex.
Amazing video again brother
Cheers!
at a lower price for the 12kw ac package it would be interesting, but more expensive than the experia... I don't see the point
Yeah man.. honestly if Zero had more range and better charging, I might consider buying one again.
Wow, thank you for this really intense review. I would really love to have an electric adventure bike. But it doesn't seem like it's ready for the real time. I think I'd rather throw my money at a regular ice engine Honda African twin adventure bike.
Thanks man. Sadly until Zero has a bigger battery + DC charging, it can't compete with gas bikes.
@@NewZeroland True, true.
Bought a DS last year, love it but things change
Nice mate. Facts are the key factor, not journalist
Cheers! In a sea of praise, I seek to share the truth.
I still think a zero FX with a elcon 3.3kw charger added on to it is a good option
I agree! That would be the best for off-roading.
I think the spoke wheels should be standard and the alloys as optional.
And why oh why are LED turn signals optional. 😕
AGREED! Pretty insane for an "adventure" bike.
I’m looking forward to the day when the price of half-decent electric motorcycles is competitive with their piston powered brethren. There are very few people, IMHO, with the foresight to consider total cost of ownership figures. Even then, this bike doesn’t really offer much to many riders. With the exception of high mileage bike addicts that like to buy new and keep for a decade or so. If you have that kind of loyalty to a bike then you’ll be quids-in after a few years. I’d still like to see a bike like this about £8k cheaper, with 12kW AC charging as standard and at least 50kg lighter. Perhaps in another 5-10 years.
Yeah man, 100%. If they're going to charge more money, it has to be better. This isn't convincing gas bikers to sell their BMWs, and it isn't convincing previous Zero owners to upgrade. I'm with you on the lightweight bike with fast charging. That's what the world needs!
Before the details was out, I thought, shit, hope it won't make me regret the Experia order. But then it was just the same as the other Zeros, so I could relax and be happy with my choice. The only thing better on the Zero currently is the sound. Or rather lack thereof.
Experia is a sport-tourer, the differences are few but relevant (e.g. tire size, suspension).
@@GregHassler Sure. For some people that may make all the difference, but I don't think that goes for the majority of people buying these bikes.
Yeah I agree.. Zero's belt still sounds better.
"Zero Improvements"
I can’t believe they had the opportunity to set a higher bar… they barred themselves. Stick with Energica NZL! Way cooler, quality products , smarter technology & you get to experience some way interesting journeys! Zero are probably spending a bucket more amount of cash to get noticed. The Italians do it on merit 🇮🇹
Thanks Steve! I agree. The bikes speak for themselves. Zeros have gotten better but are still just as limited in the ways that matter. Energicas are the closest we've gotten to something that can replace gas bikes.
Fricken nailed it! 💀
Haha cheers man! They still aren't giving you a reason to trade in your "old" Zero.
I agree with what you said but I might still buy it just because it looks cool.
Haha hey that's why I buy all my bikes XD
Terribly sad but so true...
Still, people buy a Zero 🤔.
The total package is good, really really good.
Silent belt drive, no oil, air cooled, very simple maintenance with clean hands and no smell.
NewZeroland started with Zero but turned to the dark side after having problems and no dealer support, because there is no dealer in his country. Hard luck.
I owned a 2013DS, 2017DSR and now a SR-F. The SR-F is best Zero without a doubt compared to previous Zero's.
I would buy a DSR-X with my eyes closed trusting it to be even better.
12.6kW is great
12.6kW AC is fasted of any bike. Energica only got 3kW.
@@dennisnl7125 Zeros are really fun to ride, and super reliable until they have problems. If you have a dealer and it's still under warranty, it's perfect 😂 Unfortunately the range and charging speed still isn't good enough to convince people to give up their gas bikes. Zero needs to catch up soon, or they'll be stuck in the commuter bike market forever.
@@dennisnl7125 I think the biggest issue with Zeros needing dealerships is that you can't ride them around the world. If something like my motor encoder problem occurs, or Marc Travels' battery SOC / charging problem, and you're in Africa.. your trip is over. I think that's why so many people are hesitant to go electric. Charging problems, nothing is waterproof, and Zero won't help you if you're not near a dealer. This is why I "went to the dark side" lol.
Energica Experia will convince a lot of people !!!
I think so too!
@@NewZeroland i m in the netherlands and the zero import guy regrets not ordering more first and second batch are sold out .. lot of people recognise this is what they want .. shure its expensive . But at least it delivers .. buy it for you company and it ll be half price
I may be wrong, but I somehow get the feeling you’re not a Zero fan any longer. Or is it just me? 😅
😂😂😂
As always Sam, you nailed it!
Cheers!
Who wanna do 70mph on a highway on a DSR and take the entire battery.... real world DRS owners wont do much on the highway.... Realistic range are more at 45-50mph average on gravel road and 35-40mph offroad max.. which boost alot the range.
Yeah but most off-road trails require a trip on the highway to get there... and whatever range the new bike gets, the old bike would get the same.
👍
Zero claims they put 100,000 engineering hours towards this motorcycle, but leaves behind current Gen 3 owners who are plagued by the magic charging bug that has yet to be addressed by Zero. I can't believe some Gen 3 owners are on their third battery replacement. No doubt this platform will also be plagued by magic charging as well.
Whoa :O I didn't realize it was that bad. It seems like Zero's mentality toward making people happy is to bring out a fancier version of last year's bike, instead of fixing last year's bike first.
No support for customers...... It's very sad. Zero really had a chance to do something cool. I agree with the poor charging, especially at that price. I love my Zero, had I done more research I wouldn't have bought one. The initial impression is great but after trying to get support for the most basic questions and being ignored it makes me regret my purchase. You don't build a company selling One at a time, you build a company by building a brand folks know they can believe in.
Dude, that was so well said! I agree 100%. The problem is, they're not building new models that would make you want to trade in your old one.