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Narcissism | Nature or Nurture
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2022
- In this video Dr. Ramani discusses the impact of both nature and nurture on Narcissism. Understanding whether narcissists are born or made is an important step in knowing how to deal with a narcissist or someone with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
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#Narcissism #MentalHealth #MedCircle #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthmatters #narcissist #narcissistic #narcissists
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Damn I'm in love with Dr ramani lol she's so hot
It’s not acting, never about acting. It’s about lying to yourself, you’re trying to impress to seek that addiction validation. People think narcissists get to the top? Hell no! They run all their relationships into the ground.
@@ThatGmoney but she correctly mentioned in full version that often they’re successful in business. So it depends on one’s values system.
"you cannot teach a 30 year old how to be empathic" my jaw dropped because I just ended my relationship with a 30 year old because I was trying to teach him exactly that.
God knows I have done something like that as well.
3 of my kiddos are EMPATHIC my grandaughter is but the rest idk. So I sont deal with them.
I've been trying the same futile thing. I suffered so much from dealing with her neglect and abuse, I wish I had watched these videos years ago
A lot of it comes from the person realizing they're lacking and deciding to take steps to correct it.
@Know Yourself Media Yeah but honestly.. No. They lack self awareness more times than not and that's necessary to be able to work through whatever it is you're trying to get them to work through. Nobody should dedicate their time/effort to this unless they're a professional who not only knows how to handle someone with NPD but isn't being affected by them personally. Bc chances are, you'd be giving them access to you in a way a professional isn't (obviously a therapist won't need you to empathize with them but someone you're dating/friends/family with would) and if they're hurting you with their lack of empathy, it just isn't worth it. Directing them to a professional is the smartest thing in my opinion.
Empathy is everything ! If someone doesn’t have empathy it is as if you are dealing with someone who is inhumane.
So, one night, my husband and I were having a conversation at the dinner table about work stuff. I was crying because I was yelled at and embarrassed by my boss in front of my coworkers only because my boss did not want me to take my day off. I was really hurt because that day off was very important as I was supposed to take my son to his doctor’s appointment which I scheduled 3 months earlier.
My 8-year old son saw me crying and kinda heard what’s going on. And then he came to hug me and said,” mom, don’t cry. Dad and I are always here for you. We love you.”
That just blew my mind and at the same time really appreciate my son’s presence and love.
The following night, he saw me crying in the living room again and then he said,” mom, if you think your boss is not treating you well, then go look for another job. “ And then he gave me a hug.
Jesus loves you
Kids surprise us all the time. Give yourself credit but also he is good kid from his own internal work too.
This made me tear up (ಥ _ ಥ)🤍
I thought it was more nurture than nature. Most narcissists I know were traumatized as children and always have at least one narcissistic parent. Really appreciate your content 🙏
Thanks for watching and. for supporting mental health education! 💙
I was traumatized as a kid and have two narcissistic parents. I can't explain why I'm not a full blown sociopath. God's grace, I guess.
@@gracepeterson7483 maybe but as an atheist I would say it’s because you’re a strong, amazing human ♥️
@@MedCircle always a pleasure! 💙
77777
One thing Dr. Ramini misses is that narcissists are looking for a parent/Life Coach in their relationships. Narcs need someone to direct them and help them make adult life and business choices. Narcissists take advantage of these spouses, friends and more to get ahead. Narcs are all about using whomever they can for their own gain.
!! My mom used to say (verbatim!) “I can’t help you because I don’t know” all the time. When I was getting an apartment, buying a car, getting a job, cooking, etc. - all things she had done multiple times. I’m so glad I had access to the internet and libraries and could learn myself and stop the cycle. Thank you for pointing this out!
Why is it then that narcs try and tell everyone else how to live their lives
@@twistedsocietytv they do it without morals. They are evil.
I disagree. She does discuss this because I find I have to take the place of the parents all the time with the narcissist. When Dr. R addressed it I sat right up and said EXACTLY.
it's towards the end.
Odd how siblings can be raised in near-identical circumstances and only one becomes narcissistic.
Yeah, know 2 brother's. 67 and 69 of age. S is a malignant narcissist and D is just the opposite from his brother. S was severely abused on an emotional level, while in boarding school since the age of 6. Although they both grew up in the same home with the same parents. Both went to the same boarding school but had different outcomes. S was always a hypersensitive child which needs on an emotional level especially with his mom, was never met. He is emotionally hollow because his mother neglected him on this crucial level at a stage when he needed her the most. So sad to see how their condition just gets worse as they age.
Asperger's Syndrome, I know someone with Asperger's whose parents are narcs & so she is...
My husband is the middle of three boys. Mother raised textbook birth order. So now husband has middle child syndrome, felt overlooked, lacked validation. So now he is resentful and has taken it out on me. It’s a no -win situation for me. He plays the victim with everyone against him. Never apologizes , no empathy.
That's what happened in my mom's family. Her 3 older sisters are normal but she has displayed narcissistic behaviors & patterns over the years. I always thoughtbit was because she was the baby of the family so she got away with alot of crap that her 2 oldest sisters got flack for doing the same things. Narcissism needs to be put into the DSM-V so society van see how big an issue this is in the world
leave him
run
Empathy, boundaries and taking responsibility for your actions. For me those are the major things lacking in the narcissists I've met. Love Dr Ramani, one of the best at explaining narcissists. Every video she does is informative and very helpful to those of us who have been damaged by narcissists.
True
Absolutely.
💯
Empathy seems like the foundation upon which all the other "good stuff" is built... honesty, integrity , morality... etc... 🤔
It seems like narcissism is become more widespread because of social media
I grew up in complete narcissistic family.I find this fascinating ,my mother created this competitive anxiety with all the siblings .She had all of us with ridiculous rivalry and bullying.She never showed any real love for her children, it was all about what we could do for her.She lacked any moral codes and encouraged us to basically to be dishonest.She was a shocker basically she never should have had children.She created this toxic legacy after she passed.
That's awful. I feel your pain.
@@RavenStealstheNight OMG mine two siblings were doing the same squabbling over guardianship and items.You start to wonder if it is you are sane.Its very sad .
Narcs don’t deserve to carry on with creating offspring and having families. If they don’t change most don’t they just ruin a lot of people’s lives.
Same..pretty much to the letter
Did any of you end up narcissist?
I worked so hard on empathy as well. It was my number one goal. The downfall was I was married to a narcissist who was more abusive than I could ever see for years. 2 out of 3 kids have come out empathetic, but one I worry about every day.
I wouldn’t worry about that one. I would worry about the impact on the other two. I would say your odds are pretty good. Two out three ain’t bad as the saying goes. There’s nothing you can do but protect the innocent.
@@brigitte9999 thank you!
As a young adult who’s been diagnosed with NPD and is undergoing treatment, i do think we need more videos like this. The dehumanization on TH-cam is really overwhelming and you can’t really find any good videos to help you with your disorder.
I'm really sorry that you haven't found very many sources for getting better that don't just end up making you feel worse :(. I wish you luck on your treatment. You've got this!
PLEASE don't get discouraged.
PLEASE don't give up and keep doing research.... do it for your future children 🙂
Do you do better now or is it the same? I am going througha collapse now and I dont now what to do everything is meaningless
@@Pandazz79don't know how things ended up going for you, but God loves you and God bless you. I hope you're in better times now!
Mark Ettensohn is a great resource on YT and he’s an author
Dr Ramini really is an amazing individual. Highly intelligent and I just love listening to her. I am working in mental health and I have experienced it myself and without a doubt Dr Ramani has taught me so much. Very good at what she does
I dont like her
@@cascade00 I agree......and add I would bet that it is highly likely they are person that if entered an experiment they didnt know was an experiment with 5 other people who were in on it - a blue cup was put in front of them and everyone said it was red when asked the colour they too would say is red. "I know 100% I am not like that" 🙏
@@mrsmallpinky9041 I think it's good to have an open mind about everyone we see on the internet. Be cautious and be discerning.
@@gracepeterson7483 very gracious 🙏 thank you
@@mrsmallpinky9041 why don't you like her?
I literally always have said to my husband if it’s one thing I want for my kids was for them to be empathetic!! This was well before we even had kids. Now we have 2 under 2. I’m doing my best to ensure that they see me being empathetic. Simultaneously, I went them to see me being kind to myself by not tolerating disrespect and abuse. I don’t want them to learn from me that everyone else’s needs are more important than their own because that’s what I learned from my mother’s actions.
Empathy can place you in positions you can't escape because your more worried about someone else's feeling over your own. That's how some narcissist trap you. Had to learn to control my empathic nature due to emotional pitfalls.
100% agree with you.
Empathy does not mean that you put other's feelings over your own. It means you can understand and relate to other's feelings. You still decide what to do with the information.
We definitely need to switch anti bullying campaigns to pro empathy campaigns. Anti gun violence versus pro empathy campaigns.
Empathy can only go so far being empathetic towards victims of gun violence does nothing to help society only when you take the action to make sure nothing like that happens ever again is the best option
I don't think I was capable of empathy at any age.
My mom tried to convince me to feel how others felt and I never would, simply because I knew that they're not me.
Growing up in a largely Narcissistic neighborhood, i saw how Narcissistic parents made their kids just as Narcissistic. These parents are the typical nosy, entitled, envious, manipulative, foul mouthed and sometimes ruthless people who is also deathly obsessed with either politics or religious activities or both.
They "ostracized" and covert/passive aggressively harassed everyone who doesn't agree with their point of view (i.e my family and a couple of others who then chose not to mingle much with them unless necessary). And in this southeast asian country, i think the Narcissists here looooove to be in in a large group of like-minded people, that's how they managed to overwrite their Insecurities, by hiding in numbers. They have us vs them mentality - "If everyone thinks this way, then I am correct, everyone who is not one of us is wrong". Collective/tribal narcissism.
Only a couple of kids from this sort of Narcissistic families didn't agree to such behaviour and one even expressed how she doesn't like her mum and prefers to talk to my mother.
We were never a perfect family, we had our own shortcomings too but thankfully my late dad and my mum always been showing us how to be empathetic, not to crave people's approval and provide a safe space for us to express ourselves.
Looks like you described India
I was raised by such good parents and they always put kindness, respect, empathy and compassion at the forefront and I do the same with my kids. If you try your best that’s what matters. I want my kids to become kind adults more than anything.
😍☺️❤️❤️❤️
God Bless your Parents💖
Kind adults are good, but healthy, strong/independent/know who they are, are better.
I grew up in a decent house hold, by a great single mother. She taught me how to be empathetic and kind to others. Which I saw as a positive. And it is, in moderation.
HOWEVER, this empathy and kindness did not prepare me for when I met a sociopath.
I felt BAD for the sociopath and stayed with the abuse. I gave said sociopath all my empathy, kindness, time, etc, because "It's always good to be kind", "turn the other cheek", "always help others and be there for them" "everyone deserves a second chance" etc, etc.
Empathy/kindness is good, but it is never good to be TOO kind.
I stayed when actually I should have left that relationship. I didn't leave it because childhood/society taught me I had always to put up with it and stay because "partners are family"
Now I've learned, and I'm not as kind anymore.
I actually strive to be more like one family member. They are really kind and nice, but they have healthy boundaries, and don't let people walk all over them.
@@specialtwice4975 Be kind but be selective kind. I went through the same situation but I'm still kind and now I can see the red flag and know when to call that person out loud and tell them that it's not cool to take advantage of my kindness. I have a rule breaker in every relationship now, be it my family members or friends.
This is fantastic. Even the Bible says Everything we do should be because of love. Love and empathy go together. We have to learn it to show it❤
I am so glad you educated us that all teenagers are narcissistic and self entitled ..I won’t lie I’ve been seriously concerned about my teenager, until you said they’re like this with their parents but not with friends. You have really Settled something inside of me haha
Empathy really is everything ❤️
Wow that makes sense. I was like that
I also worry of their behavior
She said all teenagers Look like narcissists. Not that they are.
I rearranged my whole life and went through hell just so that I can give my kids, me. Thank you Dr. Ramani, last year, I finally saw the light in my narcissistic family system and got myself and my kids out of an emotionally invalidating situation.
Agreed Empathy is number 1. Because kindness is what bonds us as humans and the only thing that can make a lasting change on the world. I am a teacher with no children of my own. Not by choice however I try to instill learning kindness for them. I had a similar saying for them "If I teach you nothing at all I will teach you kindness."
This is amazing parenting advice! Thank you for sharing!
The single best quality in any person is empathy. They are worth more then their weight in gold. Best partners, best parents, best coworkers, best team players, best leaders
I am the most empathetic person I know but I am also the person who has been exploited emotionally, had to sacrifice after understanding how to help others. I am also the one person who is mostly left hurt, alone and left with s feeling that no one who understand your empathetic levels.
I had to learn to use my shield.
Dr. Ramani is right. Empathy is everything ❤️
When I was younger, I asked my ex what was the one thing he looked for in a partner and he said, "competence". It's made me realize people get married for a wide variety of reasons and some matches such as ours were completely toxic. Growing as a person means forgiving yourself for what you didn't know when you didn't know it. Lesson learned! These days I look for humility along with emotional intelligence 100%.
Keep in mind there’s a lot of people with NPD that are undiagnosed because they rarely ever go to therapy and see someone because rarely does their behavior effect them, it mainly effects their victims.
Nope
I have covert narcissist tendencies, it took me years to realize it and I’m terrified of unknowingly emotionally damaging my child. I see a lot of advice about how to heal wounds made from a narcissist and how bad they are. But what about a narcissist that wants to change? How can we heal that deep wound ourselves? Thanks in advance for any guidance.
From my understanding there's therapist that are trained in this field that could help. To make changes it takes effort and huge desire to push through ❤🙏
Go to therapy. Dr Ramani and dr Les Carter, for example, they are really good expert psychologists that could help you. You can read books and watch videos too, but because narcissist often lack self-awareness, it's important to have another person to point out things that have to change. One of the main healing tools is to REPARENT YOURSELF. Narcissists were emotionally neglected, therefore they may act in an emotionally immature way. Besides, that constant need for outside valuation comes from the core would: they were not properly loved by their parents and they still long for the unconditional love of a mother/father. That makes them so insecure and vulnerable too. Therefore, they have to learn to become self-reliant. How to sooth themselves and how to give the validation to themselves and not to be so dependent on others telling them they are good, encouraging them... So, therapy, and books for example: John Bradshaw: Homecoming. Reclaiming and championing your inner child. Joseph Burgo: The narcissist you know. Lindsay C. Gibson: Adult children of emotionally immature parents. Here, I would like to emphasize, what Susan Forward PhD. Pointed out in her book: Mothers who can't love: A healing guide to daughters: that very probably, those mothers/ fathers weren't loved properly either. They are damaged too. Therefore, they really couldn't give what they didn't experienced either. Maybe some people can be empathic even though their parents were not: if they had an empathic grandparent, neighbor, caretaker, teacher at preschool etc. If someone works on themselves surely they can learn and grow a lot too. But it's very painful and humiliating owning up one's faults, so it takes a lot of determination and the willingness to go through all that pain. But if you can, you achieve a really big thing: breaking the generational cycle of narcissism.
@@june.w.1288 @Zsanett Bárány Thanks for this comment.When I heard about this term narcissist from my step elder sis (as she has been taking therapy from about 5to7 years) and then I watched few videos 3 years back ;then I stopped watching cause somewhere they were disturbing me due to my sister telling me about our problematic family dynamics.I took out some conclusions in my mind due to the possible cause of my parents behaviour and only that relieved me and I paused digging further on the issue.Major of it is well written by you here .Felt good to read this comment as it resonates a lot with my analysis.Thankyou
@@june.w.1288 Thank you so much for your insightful answer, I can see you understand that these symptoms come from deep wounds. I’ll work towards changing for the better. Wish you the best in your journey!
That doesn’t seem like a paragraph a narcissist could write. From what I understand, narcissists don’t seek treatment. Their egos just cannot fathom they have a need for it. Also, you express a a fear of damaging your children, which is coming from a place of empathy.
Empathy is important, no doubt. But in my opinion, empathy shouldn't be taught exclusively or you'll raise a doormat---a person rife for abuse by a narcissist or other abuser type who knows how to play them. Teach kids empathy yes, but also teach them to trust their gut and pay attention to pathological behavior in others. Kids need to know that acting on empathy doesn't mean people-pleasing. Can you respond to this?
Well, Dr. Ramani is an expert on narcissism. Surely she teaches her children about narcissism too.
Teaching kids to maintain healthy boundaries, and respect themselves, not to subordinate themselves in relationships, aim for relationships were they are partners, equals, - these would help a lot too to avoid toxic relationships.
I'm sure she didn't mean exclusively. Boundaries are just as important to learn.
I'm an empath and picking up on others emotions doesn't always mean your just getting the emotions that make you feel sorry for them. Unless somehow your choosing to ignore the other feelings coming from the person. Liked you said trusting your gut because you're feeling somethings off.
Feeling empathically, means for many of us that your feeling, literally, what the other person is feeling as if those emotions are your own. But most people who aren't empaths can sense others emotions but they don't internalize them. Choosing to feel those moments where the other person is being dishonest (a feeling people will attempt to put a wall Infront of) really will help in knowing when something isn't right here.
Drawing boundaries and choosing to "step away" from a situation before getting "sucked in" and then do some self inquiry. Take the emotion out of the situation for a bit and look at it from another perspective can help.
@@june.w.1288 I'm sure she does and I have much respect for her but I think it would have been good to mention that side of things. That's all.
@@LisaLywulf I am an empath too and so are all of my adult children. It is such a fine line.
The doctor is speaking broadly. She’s not speaking about each individual situation. Also, Demanding that she respond to your opinion sounds narcissistic
empathy can be painful tho and lead to constant worry and anxiety about everyone else's feelings
I think that's just anxiety
I agree. I've come to learn the importance of boundaries... Work in progress but has helped with the anxiety you describe
My husband and I decided our number 1 thing to teach our kids is happiness and to show them empathy and compassion. We teach by modeling the behavior and that is one thing I can be proud of. All 3 of my kids are so compassionate and sometimes empathetic to a fault where they "feel" others pain and heart ache so that is one thing that really does cause issues with empathizing.
Amazing parenting, and I absolutely agree that empathy is one of the major factors everyone should understand, if there was a little more empathy in the world would there be wars and conflict.
Surely NPD has to be something that some people are more prone to having it based on personality traits or brain chemistry. But the rest comes in with nurture. But some people are more likely to become narcissistic. Because empathy tend to have childhoods similar to someone with NPD but instead of growing up to hurt others, they grow up to become empathic people.
Empathy is the greatest human quality. I'm 100% with Dr. Ramani.
Dr Ramani is one of those people that makes this a better world!
I grew up with a narcissistic father and was emotionally neglected and struggle with empathy. I always try to be more mindful about other people and I look up to my sister who is pretty empathic and I don't know how she got that in the house we grew up!
I love you Dr Ramani, you show it with credibility
Same! I adore her. I found her here, and was thrilled when she started a channel of her own.
Dear MedCircle, please always pay Dr Ramani on time and well. Don’t take her for granted just cuz she’s been coming back to you guys for a long time. I cant express how helpful her advices are. I broke up with my girl friend of 2 years so she won’t ruin the rest of my life, only thanks to Ramani’s advice
"Who needs kindness when you can code?" -- a direct quote from both this video and my ex. What is with so many tech bros not having any empathy? Of course it's not all, but it does seem to be a high proportion. I think narcissists can be drawn to the control and lack of emotional vulnerability in coding so it tends to attract a lot of especially men who literally don't know what empathy even is. I literally explained it to my ex. Granted, he was from another country but yeah, after a decade here he had no idea what I was talking about and I think that was about more than a gap in his vocabulary.
Coding is a very solitary activity, so naturally people with no social skills will thrive in it. Group projects coding is perhaps somewhat different.
Thank you Dr Ramani. I can breathe a huge sigh of relief for my own children. I seem to have this innate ability of empathy - even with the really bad childhood I had (I have 7 ACE's) empathy is one of those things that I've always had and maybe my upbringing taught me how I didn't want to be. My 4 children have always had this empathy as well and it has been nurtured. My eldest was there for her friends when things happened, right down to my youngest who is ASD but has that innate empathy built in. She hates seeing anyone being hurt, including people who hurt her (bullies) so I am glad that narcissism will not be in my children's personality. 0-11, the foundation years right? My youngest is 11 and my eldest is 21 this week. My middle two are still in their teen years and I so get the teenage years being difficult.
Being raised as an empathetic child and having this quality reenforced as an adult, can be good to a point. Because most people are not being educated about narcissistic people -- the empathetic person can often become the narcissist person's target or victim.
I teared up a few x when Dr Ramani said that was the #1 goal, more important than anything, raising empathetic children 😥💗🙏
She is always so great explaining and he is also such a good interviewer, they seem so confortable talking
Oh Dr Ramani I actually burst into tears when you shared about what you and your (lovely) ex-husband agreed to do - to teach and nurture empathy above all else. It’s what I always thought too. I really needed this affirmation. Thank you.
It's refreshing to hear personal insight from Dr. Ramani. I sometimes wonder if I did things to ruin my daughters, but they are really good girls all the same.
I can relate! I raised 4 kids and they're good people despite my sometimes less than adequate mothering.
My priority in rasing my daughter is empathy as well. She is almost 6. My moment of 'yep, I succeeded' was when she was 3. I was cold, she brought me blanket. My heart melted... She was in kindergarten since 1yo, as soon as she was with other kids, she learned empathy is important.
You can also learn to be empathic by being in a VERY unempathetic environment...or if your caregiver wants you to be empathetic all the time...its not just learning through mirroring all the time
This! Thus is how I became extremely empathic to almost a psychic level. I was gaging my parents’ emotional state constantly trying to decide which one was the least likely to go off on me. The WORST was when they would go off on me at the same time.
Most people want their children to grow up and be 'happy' but I wanted my children to grow up 'good people'! That would include empathy.
Dr. Ramani- Thank you so much for sharing this message that
the most important thing in raising children, is to teach them empathy. I completely agree. When I was raising my son, I always said that the most important thing to me was to raise a son with a good heart. Great, informative video, as always. I'm always astounded by your level of knowledge and expertise. Thank you!
This was so good! Empathy has been what I've always told my husband our 3 children needed and needed the most...my 2 sons, daughter all 3 of them are very sensitive and very empathetic ❤ Thank you for these videos
This completely makes sense to me. I got my empathy from my mom. Shes been attentive to me my entire life and never rejected my emotions. Never forced me to be competitive even though she always wished I had gotten into sports more lol but because of her empathy for me I learned how to feel that towards everyone I meet. I don't brush off anyone's feelings and it's probably why I'm very interested in psychology. I want to be able to better understand people with npd and not be afraid or angry towards someone so the opposite of me.
Dr Ramani has provided so much clarity for me. I've developed cognitive empathy as I realize over time and after numerous failed relationships, I need to intentionally consider others' feelings at all times.
The single most important thing for me, is to make sure my son has empathy. I’ve been doping the exact same thing when breastfeeding and everything else. Really Bering available at all times.. - he was a high need baby, and everybody kept telling me to let others take him, so I could go and do me… but he really needed me, and his temper (having been bathed in cortisol in all of my pregnancy, due to narcissistic abuse) I was so scared not to get it absolutely right (as Rhamani says, one only gets one chance, and It has to be right.!)
Even though I’m Danish and we have “good” maternity leave, 9 moths, it is still not enough.. we still send our babies til daycare when they are only 10-12 months old.. our children, our future, empathy in general should be prioritised. Instead empathy is in dangered.. 😰
A big point of difference between me and my narc husband...he was completely focused on whether the children got good grades. I, however, always maintained the view that no one would care about grades in 10 years. But I was happy that they always got top marks in citizenship... something that would serve them well beyond their school years.
I think its unfair on parents to say no one would say they want their kid to have empathy. I dont have a kid, but if i did all i would care about is that my child was kind and compassionate to others, and made the world a better place. I think theres a good difference to highlight between empathy and compassion. Constant empathy is not healthy, empathy requires you to be in touch with the pain inside of you to relate to others and it can over run into unboundaried feelings of taking on other peoples emotions which ultimately only they are responsible for. Whereas compassion is the ability to recognise someone is hurting and an additional desire to help. I think its important to teach boundaries to kids. my mum had quite bad OCD in a troubled marriage and they argued a lot and her compulsions were to clean so much. I felt her feelings i felt her anxiety, i used to feel i had to help, and i would clean, i felt she needed me to be the best best girl or i would upset her even though she was very loving and never ever told me off, though i felt i had to make sure she was okay. Then i grew to be a people pleaser ended up in codependent relationships, feel like i had to fix everyone. Ive learned to turn that off now luckily! Just another side of the coin. Dr Ramani sounds like she raised amazing children x
Empathy is not learned, it is the natural primal condition of every human being.
It is easy to keep a child on that path despite their healthy pushing and exploring of boundaries.
It takes a lot of consistent abuse to beat the empathy out of us.
Psychopaths are born without empathy 👀
@@blockofice2163
There's no proof that anyone is born a psychopath.
Most likely these people are vak scene injured
@Jarred Mello-Neyhart-May
All people are born that way.
That's my point.
I think you need to read my comment again.
@@peterladetto708 And yet we have done a lot to erase it with our culture. To be empathetic, really empathetic, you really need to learn it early on.
@@basilofgoodwishes4138 no you don't.
It needs to be encouraged.
It's already there.
We just corrupt it
This is the first time I've commented on TH-cam & I watch MedCircle & Dr Ramani daily... But I HAD to comment on this.
I'm actually crying from the relief I felt hearing Dr Ramani talk about raising her kids with empathy. I struggle with my mental health & I worry the impact it has on my children. I am only starting to realise & heal from what I now understand was a Narcissistic abusive relationship (and being raised by suspected Narc parents) and most days I struggle that Im a bad Mum. I've been made fun of, put down, verbally abused, threatened (you know the deal lol) by so many people for teaching my daughter's empathy. My 3 year old is a beautiful soul & even at such a young age she understands what empathy is & she shows empathy but also has great boundaries. I'm going to make a conscious effort to look at my 6 month old when feeding her - good tip Dr Ramani 🥰
This actually keeps me up at night! My ex was diagnosed with NPD and I had a REALLY hard time bonding with our child when she was first born and now that she is 8 I am SO worried she'll end up like her dad. Her dad and I have split and I finally bonded with my child but I'm so worried it wasn't done in time. She goes to a therapeutic day school and was diagnosed with high functioning autism, and I was asked what was the one thing I worry about with her, and I said her lack of empathy, I see it in her ALL the time, just like her dad! I try to teach to her and show her what it means to have empathy, and take each and every teachable moment that comes along, but I'm scared it may be too late for her! What can I do to change the path that my child is heading towards?!? She already gets counselling through her school and is also set up with a therapist outside of school but my daughter refuses to engage with her outside therapist. What can I do to help my child?!?
You could look into different types of therapy that she might engage with more, like art therapy/music therapy/dance/drama, sensory rooms etc. People with autism sometimes respond better to these types of therapy because it's easier for them to engage when they're using different parts of their brain to do art/play for example.
You could also look into emotional literacy sessions (maybe her school provides them?) which help children understand and express their emotions better, which helps communication and relationship building.
Just some ideas, hope that's helpful. Sometimes you need a bit of trial and error to see what works well 😌
@@tigs6639 those are some really great tips and ideas for me to look into!! i know that her school actually has her already involved in most of your suggestions, but you still gave me some other great ideas to look into. just wanted to say thanks for reaching out and offering me some advice, her diagnoses are still VERY new to us and i'm just sort of left in the dark to try to figure it out on my own, so your comment was very helpful!!
Pray for her. Find a church home/family with a pastor willing to help you both. Attend Sunday school and church. Maybe enroll her in a church school; many give scholarships. Separate her from as many problem children as possible. Read appropriate Bible stories to or with her. Re-enforce lessons in Proverbs and Psalms, etc.. So, why am I at this site seeking info/answers? I am seeking knowledge in, for Me, unknown territory and praying for God to help our family out of, what I see as, a very harmful situation. This tale of woe would contain enough twists and turns for a TV serial on narcissism. Until this experience, we didn't really know the meaning of narcissism or even use the term, in any form, in our everyday language or discussions. All have degrees from major universities and one has an advanced degree from a major university...talking about three naive, gullible adults. That's us! Or maybe just a little dumber than our tormentor who we are beginning to believe might not have attended or completed high school
Empathy is important, but it doesn't put food on the table. You've also only got one shot at fostering conscientious, responsibility, rational thinking, self-reliance, self-discipline, etc.
I need my parents. To me it is nice as I used to spend a lot of time away traveling the world singing so never saw them for years. Now I am closer to them but it feels more like we are friends. Especially my mom and I love talking about your programs and chatting about all the things we have learnt. Maybe I also chat more to my mom because she is blind and depend on communication and learning and experiencing the world through her children and i'm the most talkative but also a bit anxious when i don't talk to my mom a few times a day. It's great to have someone to reflect on and she likes venting and inspiring me to be proactive
Empathy as an empath, is something that many kids are born with and it needs to be nurtured. But it's discouraged. To some degree all kids can sense emotions. I thought you could teach empathy, but for certain people, and it could be because of walls they've put up, they cannot pick up on someone else's emotions. There's empathy and empathy so they CANNOT actually feel someone else's emotions. Empathy, as in being able to relate to someone's pain or sadness, to where it triggers that same feeling withen them for example, can be taught.
Many times you can bring someone to a place in their lives where they were in a similar situation and then connect them with that emotion so they can relate. Start there. Unfortunately some people even need to learn how to identify their emotions to start with. I've noticed how Narcissists intellectualize vs empathize. For some it's walls they've put up for so long they cannot access emotions and they have a long standing habit of living this way. With others I believe it's possibly a chemical imbalance. I've noticed in these cases a family history of violence or an inability to feel. With the right upbringing usually this can be dealt with at a young age before it progresses into full blown narcissism.
I would love to hear more from Doctor Ramani about fostering empathy in children. I am not a parent but I am a prominent figure in the lives of several children. With the increase in how narcissistic behavior is rewarded on social media and other places, how can I model empathy in a way that will inoculate them against the influence of pervasive models of selfishness and disregard? Additionally, how do you balance encouraging empathy with the need to maintain healthy boundaries and autonomy? After growing up with a narcissist parent, even I haven't mastered this balance. I have no idea where to start with modeling it!
Dr. Ramani, You are awesome. Yes, I am proud to say that I gave importance to empathy only. When my older daughter 6 years and I had another 2 year toddler, I was so stressed and shouted to her and after 10 minutes, she came to me and asked " mom, are you ok, is it your head hurting or something else'. after that I cried more and after 24 years still I remember that incident.
Honestly i have learned alot from dr ramani , before her lecture i end up hurting myself …. Thanku, thanks 🙏 alot.
My mother is narcissistic she doesn't have that much empathy, however I learned empathy by whatching Barbie all my childhood 😂 she was a great kind empathic and brave, a great role model, I was a very introverted kid (still am) and honestly movies and playing with my toys or pets were my company,
I hope you are right. I pray to God you are right. My 6 year old daughter is coping with her parents divorce and leans towards her narcissistic mother. I am patient, loving, and nurturing to the best of my ability and teach her lessons in empathy and how to manage her emotions. Oddly, her mother may be also teaching her lessons on the same topics. However, my daughter seems to enjoy the pain of others since she was a toddler. Because she favors her mom, perhaps she mimics her behavior but I feel that my daughter can’t comprehend empathy or perhaps doesn’t see empathy as a favorable thing to have and I just don’t see that it’s because of her mother or myself for that matter. She’s still so young and I won’t give up, but I’m really struggling with this.
Thank you for reiterating many thoughts I've been digesting over the years, it has validated my feelings and made me see some things with new eyes. The relationships which have tested me often drained me of my own value, it has often taken a great deal of my energy. This is a work in progress, you are definitely a help! Gratefully, Lisa
i just watched another video abt narcissism, most narcissists actually are underdeveloped in parts of the brain that have to do with safety and empathy and literally cannot feel empathy because their development was stunted at an early age
I felt the same way with empathy! When my son was very little we would pray talk drive to school and each day he had an assignment at school to see 👀 who was down sad and needed a smile. I would ask him to see who was down to learn empathy and then I would ask him what he did to act on that empathy to help them smile so he could learn compassion to act on it. That was a regular thing throughout his childhood. That was one practice we did and then talked about together after school
My son is now 16 and one of the wisest God fearing loving compassionate forgiving teens you have ever met. He holds to high boundaries and can blend with all kinds of personalities and stay true to himself and his identity. Empathy and compassion training should be a class in school these days
What's really odd to me is, my mother and brother are both completely lacking empathy and not only do they both INSIST they are "very" emphatic, they get angry when you tell them they are not and can't grasp their own lack of empathy. I assume they "know" it's an important character trait and don't want to admit that they are lacking it; it would be funny if it wasn't so painful how oblivious they are to what it even means. One example, my brother went to Mexico and apparently talked to some spiritual woman about ME - I have no idea what he said to her, but he informed me after that she told him I "needed empathy". Guess how he interpreted that, and took as fact? He interpreted it that a complete stranger who had never met me, was able to judge my level of empathy and conclude I was the one lacking it, rather than that I needed someone to BE empathic toward me. I suppose it's possible that a stranger might believe my brother's projections were the truth and conclude that I might be the one lacking empathy, but I don't think that was what she was trying to tell him, at all, even though I have no idea what he said to her. Even his ex wife labelled him "Mr Projector" when they were married and accused him of having no empathy. It's a real mind-warp with these people and the way they automatically dump their defects onto you as if it was gospel and then convince themselves and others it is gospel.
Another thing that I don't understand is how I ended up with empathy, in a family that completely lacks it. It's not just my mom and brother, my dad is also not empathic. I know I am because even as young as 4, I was able to express that my mother hurt my feelings (she used that as an opportunity to cajole and tease me, she's quite sadistic) and when I was 7 or 8, I stood up to some other kids who were throwing rocks at gophers and asked them how they would feel if they were a small gopher being attacked. I really freaked out on those kids, I remember it pretty well. Of course now, as an adult, I realize not all people see gophers as critters worth empathizing with, but at the time I could not understand how anyone could find hurting an animal, funny or fun. So how did I end up with feelings in a family who seemed to have none, and worse, saw feelings as something to ridicule or taunt in some sort of sick power-play where the adult always "wins"? Or something you can use to control someone with?
@Natalie let me guess, she's the one who is histrionic?! lol
I'd say empathy, intelligence, communication skills and healthy habits (explaining to the child why it's a good idea to brush their teeths for exemple)
Empathy is everything😌❤️❤️❤️☺️👍
dehumanizing. that's my childhood in a nutshell. my parents were young, ignorant, and survivors themselves of horrific childhoods. my mother thought we were little dolls she could dress and hair-style however she pleased without reference to our preferences. my preferences were ignored at best and punished at worst. i was under-indulged and over-ignored and over-punished...often punished for things my sister did or for reacting to things my sister did. my narcissist sister is the one who was both over- and under-indulged--hence, the nurture...but i think she also was genetically geared toward narcissism because she hated me with a seething passion the minute my parents brought me home from the hospital, before they even had a chance to "love" me at her "expense" in her presence.
It's always been clear to me that Dr. Ramani has a good heart and is very bright. But, because she does do "the superficial world" so very well, I had a (tiny)bit of a prejudice. That took a hit here. Expressing that empathy is either learned very early or not at all, and then state that empathy was the NUMBER ONE thing she felt obliged to "teach" her children; this was a reminder to pay closer attention to what she is saying (even if it's fun and very stimulating to take her in on a more superficial level)
Empathy.. kindness.. others before themselves.. this is how I raised my children.. why am I watching this trying to figure out my 23 yr old middle child?
I am so appreciative of Dr. Ramani. I have learned so much and through her, how to heal.
This is such an interesting post, thank you for sharing. I love watching both of your channels, you’ve helped me help myself, take responsibility for my emotions and respond over react. Take care.
Link pls.
Such a relief to hear this because without realizing it I know I raised my son to have empathy. The sad thing is he tends to attract narcissistic women. Makes me really sad too as I’m a sensitive empath currently trying to figure out how to get out of a 23 year relationship with a narcissist as I’m codependent + trauma bonded :(
A good basis to leave unhealthy relationships. By encouraging empathy and not modeling good boundaries he is still in that dynamic. If one has a narcissistic parent teaching empathy is counterproductive. It could set them up for years of abuse.
@@brigitte9999 He is a compassionate kind person. I raised him as a single mom and am just learning to have boundaries myself. He definitely is a lot stronger than I ever was and seems to have good boundaries. Just his last girlfriend seemed to have controlling issues so he did break up with her which I'm happy about. I left his father because he was a narcissist in hopes he wouldn't become like that...
@Natalie it's all so frustrating seems the world is divided between good people and narcissists...anyway it's made us both realize we can function on our own and don't have to be in any damn relationships lol
So good! Loved the parenting piece! Can a bullying experience, gifted intelligence, or abusive experience outside the family also cause NPD as well?
I've read that children and adolescents aren't fully capable of true empathy, as the part of the brain that deals with empathy, the anterior insular cortex, isn't fully developed and that the whole brain isn't fully developed until we're in our late 20s (apparently earlier for females). Is this correct? 🧠 🧐
This validates my own conclusion about what matters most to me in the entire world, which is how people treat each other. Now I can be even more specific by putting the word "empathy" in, I didn't know that's what I was looking for because I was under the impression that empathy was sometimes undesirable, like an invasion of privacy, but it's all about putting yourself in the other person's shoes, so that makes sense. Thank you again! I'm so relieved that the way I think is good, and not a la-la land fairy tale for losers.
if you didn't learn empathy in your childhood, is there absolutely no way you can learn it later on in life?
Yes, people can, at least, cognitive empathy. Maybe there is no complete healing, but still people who try to better themselves can make a big difference! It's always worth trying!
I love this 💓 Great information, I have 2 young boys with great empathy which gives me hope 🙌
That is wonderful advice for parents. It’s one of my main goals for my kids too. Empathy is so important!
Doctor Ramani, you should do a video series for parents on HOW to teach empathy.
Think you have to keep in mind that some folks do not meet the full diagnostic criteria for NDP (with DSM or ICD). But still vulnerable for expressing some narcissist traits at the sub diagnostic level. A fine set of explanatory ideas, no major issues with the 6. Compassion and communicating validating may be more useful. Please read Dr Paul Bloom's book "Against Empathy: the case for rational compassion". Empathy can be a skill that can be used in a negative way
A question for Dr Ramani- while raising your kids were you ever worried about them becoming too empathetic and therefore prey for narc abuse? I think you’ll understand why I ask this. So many of us survivors of narc abuse are overly empathic and narcs love to drain the beauty and life from us bc of our strong ability for showing empathy.
I was/am in a psychology phd programme where I wanted to use CBCT to foster empathy in school-aged children...My motivation was to find a way to enhance empathy with something that you could implement in the school curriculum. Unfortunately, I ended up at a terrible University and I am not most probably going to quit...My lives' goal and everything I cared for in the rubbish bin...
.. if you have a pulse … there is always another chance… take a break… get rested and ready… and find another, better university …
My upbringing was a combo of being praised like no other and getting everything I want and feeling 0 love from my own mother.
She's a narc and I am 35 now and my eyes are opening. I am going to end this cycle. I have no children yet but in no way am I exposing anybody anymore.
That's nice and a big relief!! My daughter once was on a bike ride when she was 3 years old and we passed by a construction site and she told me.. o my god mummy, the poor rock they are hurting it a lot. why!? so bad that I had to sit down with her to explain coz she wanted to cry.. it was a bit too sensitive.. but I thought it was nice but too much!
on the other hand, I had to teach her to feel the right of certain things, coz in those terms I think she had mirrored me a little. never feeling deserving unworthy. once we talked about her relationships and I told her, that we needed to explore what is what I did coz she got it from me for sure.
We needed to figure it out coz I didn't want her to feel that way ever nor feel manipulated as I have had... she was shocked but she has been willing to help us fix her issues I'm happy coz she is the 20s so it means she will be happier than me, with fewer struggles by her 40s...
Thank you for this. I said to another mum today who spoke greatly on my oldest, as long as they are with everyone else that's what matters. I'm worried about my youngest at the moment but you remind me all kids somewhat are. As long as they are well with others. As I said to this mum, they ain't so great at home because home is "safe", home they can be whatever, but in public they behave
I ended up my relationship with such a personality. Still working upon myself to come up from the abuse.
Empathy is magical. Thanks!
We've been hearing the same, since many years now... Still, we are not able to get any thing better - in fact, all the societal, parental and abuse stuff is only growing, and we are just failing.. WTF
I am learning from Dr. Ramani and the wonderful people here that I cannot change anyone - I could not change my narcissistic mother, and I cannot change my narcissistic, verbally/emotionally/psychologically abusive, rageful husband.
The ONLY person I can change is myself.
I hope you find healing - HOPE never dies.
I seek my own healing now - it will be quite a journey, but I know I can find support here.
PeaceLoveSmiles 💓,
❤️Theda
My mom is toxic and I'm halfway certain she's narcissistic in some way (she is _obsessed_ with what ppl think of her, for example and most of the rules of our childhood was based on what other ppl would think of her). My brother and I are both neuro-divergent - ADHD and autistic. We're also 2.5 years apart (I'm older).
Looking back, there were very subtle signs that Mom favored my brother in certain ways. She was very attentive to his feelings, but she was completely indifferent to my feelings. She scolded me for buying my friends lunch when they didn't have enough (at school) - nvm that they always paid me back. She strictly enforced rules on me regarding going to theaters (not allowed under any circumstances), not being out late, no magic-themed media (such as fantasy books), etc. I learned when I was 20 that she was searching my rooms when she found my VHS copies of the first two Harry Potter movies. I was exempted from sex ed because "girls don't need to learn about that kind of thing."
I found out later that my brother broke curfew, went to movies with his friends, and basically broke any rule he wanted and never faced any actual consequences for it. Mom didn't exempt him from sex ed because she "didn't want the other kids to make fun of him." (I'm not saying he should have been exempted, just that it was yet another sign of how she treated us differently.) She banned Pokemon from the house, but when he traded for Pokemon cards, a Gameboy, and one of the Pokemon games, she did nothing about it. Meanwhile, she tossed out my VHS tapes that I had bought with my own money. Mom never seemed to care what grades my brother got, but whenever I brought home a report card, if I had a B her response was "why isn't it an A?" If I had As? No comment.
I always assumed it was because Mom always relied heavily on physical strength to discipline us, but after 3 years in wrestling, my brother was too "tough" for her to hurt. So she had to switch to different methods which she was never consistent with and her knee-jerk reaction whenever she was mad was to hit us - even when she couldn't see which kid it was she was hitting (such as this one time in the car when my brother was annoying her, she reached back without looking and moved her hand around until she found a leg to smack as hard as she could - which was my leg).
I don't know if my brother is exactly narcissistic, but he does have certain expectations and often does things assuming he'll be favored - like move into our late grandparents house without asking and being permitted to remain there. His favorite technique to "win" arguments is to simply talk louder than (and over) the other person. He simply can't stand not having the last word in an argument. I would also say that he exhibits a lot of psychopathic behaviors. But I'm hardly qualified to diagnose... well, anyone.
Every narcissist I ever met didn’t know who they were.
I truly believe that and they lack self reflection
Hello. I certainly understand teaching empathy to your children as a priority. It is nearly impossible to teach once they are older. However, how did you temper this with being vulnerable to narcs? I would love to hear your feedback on this. Cheers!
also what im wondering -- while i agree empathy is a priority i would worry that narcissists will exploit their sensitive nature which could be even worse
I understand we need to rise above and be the mature one. Language is powerful and we don’t want to create a mess. That being said we also have to acknowledge that we are responsible for our own behavior and feelings; we can’t be responsible for others. I have had problems worrying too much about how other people feel walking on egg shells and not trying to make waves. I think worrying too much about how other people feel and trying to control other people and their emotions and responses is very unhealthy too. Not letting other people’s emotions bully us to compromise our own values for the sake of not stepping on anyone’s emotional toes I think is healthy.
That's beautiful... ; "when we need someone we resent them". Especially if we think they are or may not come though for us when we need them to.
This advice will change a lot. Thank you 🙏