I have an ID.4 and did a similar trip, but a bit shorter one, from Austin -> Albuquerque -> Santa Fe -> Taos -> Santa Fe -> Albuquerque -> Austin and I had a very similar experience. In theory the ID.4 can go 250 miles and can charge at 125KW. However, in reality, it can only go ~200 miles (with the AC and very high temperatures in TX/NM). Also given the distribution of charging (EA) stations, and that only about 3/4 of them really work, you have to stop in at each EA stop (which currently are around 130 miles apart). To be able to use more effectively the range EA stations would have to be minimally 50 miles apart. There is stretch from El Paso TX to Albuquerque that is 266 miles, which is beyond the ID.4 range, so I had to stop for a couple of hours at Charge Point in a NM state park. However there is Tesla SuperCharger perfectly located half way in between, which unfortunately I could not yet use. So, at least for now going long distance in an EV requires careful planning and a lot of patience. BTW, very good video, it shows that you do a lot of research on what you are going to talk about and are fairly balanced in your opinions.
From experience over here in Europe, there is an absolutely massive difference between owning an EV and owning a Tesla. There just aren’t enough EV charming stations, you most often have to wait and/or the charging speeds are slower than indicated. However, Tesla stalls are always available, easy to use, output maximum charging rate. They are also much more common and cheaper. Your analysis is excellent, but the reason the Tesla isn’t first is because these factors cannot be reproduced by the system. (Wait times, availability, charging speed). After watching other road trips in EV vs Tesla in the US, I ca. Safely say the Tesla network is much more reliable.
There was a real roadtrip race done, but it wasn't with the Lucid Air. The Porsche Taycan won easily, but the Ioniq 5 (sister car to the EV 6) came in close 2nd place followed up by the Tesla 3 and X lastly followed by a very worn-out driver in the Mach-E. It was eye-opening to see that the Ioniq 5 and EV6 are only a fraction of the cost but can hold their own. Fast charging is a necessity.
Great video. Another consideration is that nobody would probably drive the full trip without stopping to sleep so destination charging would come into play and change the overall stops.
Good point, and that makes a difference because you can start out each day at 100% SOC, which means your first leg each day can be longer before you need to stop to charge. That’s how I did my 7700 mile road-trip in my 2020 Chevy Bolt, which has a much lower peak charging rate.
Thank you very much for this video and all of the research behind it. My next vehicle will definitely be an EV but I’ve been hard-pressed on determining which one. This really helps! My four biggest factors in my next purchase: Styling, price, performance and range (in that order). Thanks for all your content, it’s much appreciated!
That’s the one I’m going for. I don’t need the AWD, and the extra range and lower price are welcome. I’m waiting to take possession for 6 months now, and I still do t have a date fixed…
ECO mode uses (I believe) only the rear wheel motor. I charged my Wind AWD last night to 100%, and it gave me an estimated range of 352 miles. This morning I did a 148 mile round trip on I90 from Spokane, WA to Ritzville, WA in ECO mode at 70mph w/out the A/C and with regen level 0 and had a estimated range of 150 miles when I got home.
This is what I began to discover on a several hundred mile trip last week. When I was car shopping, range was my top priority. I now realize that the combination of range and charging speed is what really matters. My range anxiety when I first purchased was VERY high, but now that I've put on a little more than 1k miles, I realize how unfounded my fears really were. If anybody reading this hasn't pulled the trigger yet because you're worried about your range vs an ICE car, you can relax. It's not the bogeyman people have made it out to be.
Wish I could. My area you have to pay $5/hour to park at a level 2 charger and you'd need to uber from it to work and back. Live in a condo where it is virtually impossible to get power brought to my parking space without the whole community voting to get it installed. I'll dream for the next 10 years until I move to a new area where I can hopefully install at home charging. I wouldn't want to have to use a super charger every week because that wont be good for the battery.
@@acephantom903 Perhaps you could reach out to the community and see their thoughts on the matter. It would be nice if you got some unexpected support on the initiative.
@@hermanwooster8944 It has been brought up but it doesn't have support -- we also now have 2 EVs in the neighborhood. I've talked to them and they are charging at work.
@@acephantom903 That's a real shame. I would think maybe one or two community charging spots within walking distance of your home would be an acceptable compromise.
@@hermanwooster8944 agreed. If we did install a handful of spots around the community, it would make the community more attractive to younger people which means more property value, but they don't want to start the process.
This is why I purchased a Toyota Rav 4 Prime plug-in with 42 miles of EV range 85% of my driving is in EV and the 15% in gasoline at 40 mpg and 5 min per fill ups. Vacations are for relaxing. EVs on road trips are not relaxing.
Hi. I have an Ioniq 5 long range RWD EV. A recent trip of 95 miles each way showed plenty of of range at over 40 miles. That’s a comfortable 200 miles at 64 mph in flat Ohio. Topography must make a huge difference as to range. Very informative comparisons and the data is excellent. Thanks.
loved this video and stats provided...this had a lot of hours put in to make this video...thank you so much for doing this for those interested in EVs and their performance to make informed decisions....I do think we will be seeing more charging stations as the demand for them increases and more switches to EVs occur
I came to similar conclusions on my 600+ mile road trip this summer, using in-car Tesla suggested charging stops. I’d some times hit a charging stop with 40% battery, wondering when I was going to do with the rest of it 😂 charging every 130-200 miles worked out for my physical need for breaks, so no complaints there. Had I been traveling with less patient kids or adults, it might have been a different story
agree that any EV with a range of ~250 miles is more than adequate. Having done quite a bit of long distance travel in a Tesla 3 and a Chevy Bolt what becomes clear is that what really matters is efficiency, battery capacity, charge speed, and charger availability/reliability. While cars such as the Porsche Taycan can (theoretically) charge at 270 kw, their poor efficiency effectively negates this potential advantage. It's even worse for a vehicle like a Rivian or F150 Lightning. Efficiency really matters. As for charge speed, while all EVs must adjust speed based on fullness of the battery, there are big differences. In the case of the Bolt versus Tesla comparison, the difference is stark. While the Bolt maxes out at about 50KW, the Tesla will do 250KW. Both taper as they charge, but if you keep the Tesla in the sweet spot the charge rates are pretty impressive. On a recent trip I charged the car for 6 minutes and got 95 miles.... But the bigger issue is real world charger availability/reliability. What's missing from an ABRP virtual trip is what happens in the real world. With the Bolt (and any other non-Teslas) the biggest issue is that each charging location has maybe 4 chargers and maybe half of them actually work....this is with Electrify America. By comparison, with our Tesla we can count on a minimum of 8 stalls with all of them working. Additionally, with the Tesla we already know if stalls are available before we get to the charger, and the car is smart enough to re-route to a different charge location if that would be faster. With the Bolt it's pretty much hit and miss. So, while the information you presented is interesting, it's not really indicative of what one would expect in the real world. In the real world efficiency is as important as charge rate, infrastructure quality is hugely important, and connectivity between the car and the charging infrastructure makes a huge difference. As Tesla has concluded, anything more than 350 mile range is basically just bragging rights, and there is a substantial cost for those rights. I would argue that the Lucid would actually be a substantially better car if it had a 400 mile range. Vehicles like the Taycan, BMW EVs, Audi EVs, Mercedes EVs, and the current electric trucks are severely penalized in real world usability by their poor efficiency. Interesting topic, and thanks for taking the time to do the experiment you did.
250 miles is adequate? 😂 not in the US. If thats true we would see small EV cars like asia and EU but we have big expensive ev with everything trying to get atleast 300 pricing at $50k.
You said Tesla is biased toward longer charging stops. However, you can set the parameters in ABRP to have more short stops with any car. You can set the starting and arrival State of charge to reduce overall time for the trip also. Kyle Conner knows how to game the system with any car. Watch the Out of Spec Motoring channel to see how it’s done. He does mental calculations on the fly and he’s not afraid to arrive at a stop with 5% and leave with 35% depending on the charging stops displayed on the map.
Unfortunately, the maximum distance between charges is limited by the fact that the chargers are so few and far between, not because the EV does not deliver on its estimated EPA range. In other reviews of the EV6, for example, while highway speed range was below the 274 miles they were closed to 250 to 260 miles. So if chargers, like gas stations, were widely available, the EV6 would still have amazing total travel time numbers if they only need to stop for a charge at around 240 miles. P.S. Picked up my EV6 GT-LINE AWD Aug. 10th and am learning new things about how to set it up almost everyday. It is a techie wonder. Rides much better than my 2015 Model S. which I traded. Thanks for this analysis.
Because ABRP is such an amazing resource for EV owners and prospective EV buyers I am very happy to support their efforts by paying a yearly subscription to them. I am not affiliated with ABRP, just an avid user. Before I bought my Kia EV6 Light (small battery RWD) I used ABRP to do “what if” scenarios with several used and new EV models such as an older Model S, a new Model 3, a Chevy Bolt and others. I put in specific destinations that I valued for road tripping and compared the trip times and it was very enlightening. In my case the West Virginia CCS black hole was significant for non Teslas but it turned out that even a small battery EV6 can make that jump in ABRP theory and in reality as I have now proven to myself in real life after 3 times traveling through there this spring and summer. Thank you for bringing this to more people’s attention and thank you for the well reasoned, high quality content that you produce. It’s always a pleasure watching your videos and I am more well-informed afterwards.
Awesome video 👍😁. I actually did a similar analysis between all the available EVs in my price range before I decided to buy the Tesla model 3. But my 2nd choice would have been an EV6 for sure based on the charge times on a road trip. I just hope public CCS fast charging infrastructure improves drastically and/or Tesla superchargers being opened for CCS vehicles gets implemented soon. 👏 I am waiting anxiously for the Ioniq 6 release 😅☺️
Another option that people keep forgetting, Roadside motels with slower chargers. Really it's not a bad thing to take a night rest after driving for so many hours in a day. Something folks used to do way more in the past. Then your car can recharge the same way you can, and you don't need these really high peak charge speeds that are stressing the network. Yes quick charging is important, but it shouldn't be the only option we'd have to look at.
please look at the real world tests from other people who have done it. All winners were Tesla (for a 3000 to 5000 mile trip) Does not matter where you go. it is NOT the car, it is the charging infrastructure. There are billion comments on where the station is working, how fast, some not delivering etc. This is only for all other cars other than Tesla. People are reviewing comments on plug share to see if the charger works, which one, which is down etc. I never looked at any of these. Before I go to a tesla charge station, i know how many chargers are free when I get there. I would say "too much stress". You can have the best / longest range car, if you cannot charge it, it is useless.
Another very interesting comparison. I fully agree that giving a range which you cannot use more than 70% without damaging your battery is not very honest. Just reming also that LFP batteries are allowed to be used between 10 and 100% without damaging the battery. Even more, it's advised to charge them to 100% at least once a week. On the other side, those batteries, with equivalent power, give a little short range and are less efficient when it's cold.
Throw in variables like cold weather really impact that range and would completely change the outcome. The ability to correctly handle the thermal management in the cold and propere battery pre-conditioning also plays a role on speed. Availability of 350kw chargers would severely limit your outcome on the EV6 and many times you would be stuck waiting to be able to use the faster charger. Range is important in the cold since it is so severely impacted, but like you mentioned the overall range as rated probably isn't the deciding factor for speed on the trip. The reality that you aren't supposed to charge to 100% and run it to 0% and to keep the car in the sweet spot for a given vehicle charging curve programming also plays a role. There was a fun race run by Out of Spec Motoring where the Porsche won, but it really could have gone to several of them, but it turned out to be luck of the draw on charger stops, speed, waiting, cold gating, and strategy based on the vehicle charging profiles and locations. They had an Ioniq in the race that should been far more competitive but thermal management killed it and it was cold gating too much early on in the race. I think you will want to organize some friendly races with some other EV owners and see how it turns out. Luck and chance sometimes lay to waste the best plans.
hi, great video. It would be gr8 to see the difference based on the speed comparison like on your previous video. As you showed there was a difference of 41% based on doing a slower speed, which means less charging stops. :)
I think this was such a GREAT review and travel-recap analysis!!! I appreciate it so much! …… As a side note: in Oct 2022 I bought my first EV6 (2022 Wind) as a consequence of the video’s, then just two days ago (Jan 4, 2023) I bought our second EV6 (2023 GT-Line). Trading in both times (each time) a recent vintage Toyota 4-wheel drive Hybrid. At first thinking seriously about whether going to whole way (EV) in was a high risk or not. BUT I LOVE THIS CAR!!! (And this video convinces me!!!) And I believe that They will make them even better😊.
You're right about road trips, but, if you have the ability to charge at home, range is a HUGE advantage. It greatly increases your travel radius from your home, where you can charge on the cheap, off-hours electricity. Long range can cut your cost per mile of electricity in half or better, by erasing the need for expensive public charging. To me, it's well worth the extra money, to get the extended range battery in whatever car you chose.
Thanks your video helps prove my point that as long as you have enough range to get to the next charger the cars and the chargers peak charging speed is all that matter on a road trip. I believe why the model Y was not as good as the ev6 was again the charging speed. I believe the model Y has about a 210 KW peak I might be wrong on that though, but v3 super chargers only have a max of 250 KW. This is one of the big reason that 800 volt cars can't reach their peak charge speed on v3 chargers with magic doc. Range is only a problem with cars that have less than 100 miles or just over. I believe that 150 is the minimum needed and as more chargers pop up it will decrease.
The main question is how is this range achieved. For example, the Ioniq 6 is lighter, has the same battery size and charging speed as the KIA EV6 and has WLTP of 583km (LR, AWD, 19”) versus 484km(LR, AWD, 20”) for the EV6, an improvement of ~20%. So in this simulation it may be better than EV6 or Lucid. Because it will need 4 less stops than EV6, but the average charging time will not be longer. Also, if you know that at the average stop you will have a snack or use the restroom, it is better for E-GMP cars to set at least 85% in the ABRP this extra 5% only costs 4 extra minutes per stop, but on your trip it can save two stops because 17 stops with this extra 5% will give you ~65 kWh to your battery.
Hi there, nice video and a LOT of work put in! Charging curves really are where it's at! Next to range/efficiency, that's where the magic lies. Or in other words, we should rather look at average charging speeds and "charging pattern" than at peak rates, completely agree. Some cars will give you more usable range than others. Compare the EGMP cars to a Nissan Ariya 87kWh i.e.. Ariya has a peak rate of 130kW, but in real world use (at least in the climate we have here now, which is hovering between 0 and 17°C, it will only make 115kW max. That literally is half of what the EGMP cars will give you. BUT: Ariya gives you a lot more range to begin with (WLTP), plus it gives you more usable range. How so? Ariya has a massive low end buffer, so you can easily drive the car down to 5%. Still plenty of range and power left. Furthermore, it has an amazingly flat charging curve, about the flattest out there right now. Speeds stay high up to 90%. That gives you 85% usable capacity of an already bigger pack, opposed to the 70% of a smaller pack with the EGMP cars. Furthermore, Ariya will charge said 85% in just 41 minutes at an average rate of 105,4kW. With a peak of 115kW mind you, so it's super easy on the grid and the battery, while having very little losses. If need be, it will even charge up to 95% in just 45 minutes, giving you 90% of usable range at an average charging speed of 100kW. To top it off, it will do 5 to (almost) full range of 99% in 51 minutes at an average speed of 93,6kW. That's 310mi added right there in a good 50 minutes. Set ABRP to use that charging pattern, and the Ariya actually is the fastest of them all. Who would have thought? I did a 2000Km road trip with my car, and it seems to deliver exactly that.
my stretch of 1200 KM ( sleep stops after 600 km) with an EV6 GT or a Cupra Born 55Kw gives me a ABRP difference of 35 Minutes while doing 2 charges more on the Cupra @125KM/h thru Austria/Germany , this while using Ionity Chargers Only along the highway. 7:15 vs 6:40 this probably due to the higher battery capacity AND charging speed of the EV6. the 58KWH Battery is Just ok for this monthly trip, but i'm eagerly waiting for the GT6 Normally we did this trip in a 70 Liter Tank Diesel car @160KMh and only about 30 minutes faster per stretch
Get a Tesla right now because of the charging network you have more options. Choose charging longer stops when you a longer stop is more convenient. You can then deviate from abrp if chargers are also crowded.
Great video👍 and well done on all the research and time this would have taken. To be honest the “range thing” stems from main stream media and car reviewers who never use an EV on a daily basis and therefore never really understood that the important thing is a mix of range and charging speeds combined., but just get fixated on battery range!Strange thing is in Europe/UK that the AWD is just over 500km which equates to 310miles. So why in the States that they quote 276miles 🤔🤷🏻♂️. You will have probably upset a few Tesla fan boys with this as well. 🤣
He don't know the outofspec real world test. In the test, Ioniq5 was faster than model s, model 3 and mach e. It is not small difference between ioniq5 and mach e.
And it was hindered significantly by the lack of battery pre-conditioning at the start when it was cold outside. I’d love to see a recreation of the race if/when I5 gets pre-conditioning. I think it could give the taycan a run for its money.
I think it's a really good comparison, you can't really take into account buzy/broken chargers.. I mean at least most people buy a car to have many years as as the charger networks get better you can take advantage of that, if you have a car with low range and low charging speed you cannot, so buying that is kind of short sighted. :)
You are right, but consider that these type of road trips won’t happen very often. Probably once a year. So the majority of use cases can be dealt with a car with shorter range. And the majority of the charging will be happening at home, slower and cheaper.
Yes but those few times a year I want to charge quicky and have fair range, but ofc it depends on what you can and are willing to afford, my gf thinks it’s too expensive :)
If I'm driving long distance alone I like to go 5 hrs between stops. Probably not good for my bladder. When an EV can do that I'll use it for long trips. For now it's ICE.
It wouldn't change much. EPA requires, from my reading and experience w our EV6 awd, the car to be rated in AWD mode. You can change the drive mode easily to Eco and it disengages the front motor and acts as a RWD. Just finished a nearly ideal, no climate control, interstate trip in ours yesterday I'm the low 70's mph range and achieved 3.71 miles per kwh. That equates to a range of 287 miles highway. Pretty good when the epa measure of 273 includes lower speed city driving. We usually have a city bias and see around 350 mile range in eco mode and careful driving with modest AC use. Regardless, fast charging covers a lot. Saw 231kw charging yesterday, though falls to 130kw after a few mins. Regardless, our bladders and food dominate our stopping time more than charging did.
I would never drive that distance. Nit without spreading it out over several days. About 500 miles is al I would drive in a day, or about 7:30 hrs driving. With an XC40 that would be no more than 45 minutes charging, not that much longer than any of the other EVs you ran here.
Mahesh, I don't think your virtual assumption is right. Tesla will always (regardless of the model) will win, because, all other cars will have to wait, towed, or get far less charging speed, unlike Tesla charge stations. You are comparing to 1 or 2 or 5 charging points at a station vs 10, 15 or 50 charging points at a charging station. I always found a charging point with out waiting. Also consider that ccs1 charging stations are down by 20% to 50%. where as Tesla charging stations are up by 99.5%. Tesla charging is plug it in. no app, no fiddling with your phone, no calling the customer service of the charging station etc. etc. etc.
Interesting idea but i think your methodolgy is flawed once you consider 'real life' and you did hint at this but not get into details. Unless you actually have 2 or 3 drivers swapping seats for continuous driving this is a drive that will take place over several days to a week or longer. After all the road trip isnt just for the purposes of driving rather than sightseeing, sleeping etc? So, the main thing is to consider overnight stops and full charging. Once you start off each day with a full charge (because you picked places you could overnight charge of course ...) then the difference will be much less because you'd only be looking at a couple of stops a day at most. Take the Lucid at an extreme, you might not even need to charge every day, or maybe just once because every morning you have 500 miles range which is roughly a days driving and definitely a days driving if the trip is a week long. You said extra range doesnt matter above a certain point but if that extra range gets you to your next overnight stop where you can fully charge, massive benefit.
I have an ID.4 and did a similar trip, but a bit shorter one, from Austin -> Albuquerque -> Santa Fe -> Taos -> Santa Fe -> Albuquerque -> Austin and I had a very similar experience. In theory the ID.4 can go 250 miles and can charge at 125KW. However, in reality, it can only go ~200 miles (with the AC and very high temperatures in TX/NM). Also given the distribution of charging (EA) stations, and that only about 3/4 of them really work, you have to stop in at each EA stop (which currently are around 130 miles apart). To be able to use more effectively the range EA stations would have to be minimally 50 miles apart. There is stretch from El Paso TX to Albuquerque that is 266 miles, which is beyond the ID.4 range, so I had to stop for a couple of hours at Charge Point in a NM state park. However there is Tesla SuperCharger perfectly located half way in between, which unfortunately I could not yet use. So, at least for now going long distance in an EV requires careful planning and a lot of patience. BTW, very good video, it shows that you do a lot of research on what you are going to talk about and are fairly balanced in your opinions.
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From experience over here in Europe, there is an absolutely massive difference between owning an EV and owning a Tesla.
There just aren’t enough EV charming stations, you most often have to wait and/or the charging speeds are slower than indicated.
However, Tesla stalls are always available, easy to use, output maximum charging rate.
They are also much more common and cheaper.
Your analysis is excellent, but the reason the Tesla isn’t first is because these factors cannot be reproduced by the system. (Wait times, availability, charging speed).
After watching other road trips in EV vs Tesla in the US, I ca. Safely say the Tesla network is much more reliable.
There was a real roadtrip race done, but it wasn't with the Lucid Air. The Porsche Taycan won easily, but the Ioniq 5 (sister car to the EV 6) came in close 2nd place followed up by the Tesla 3 and X lastly followed by a very worn-out driver in the Mach-E. It was eye-opening to see that the Ioniq 5 and EV6 are only a fraction of the cost but can hold their own. Fast charging is a necessity.
Great video. Another consideration is that nobody would probably drive the full trip without stopping to sleep so destination charging would come into play and change the overall stops.
Good point, and that makes a difference because you can start out each day at 100% SOC, which means your first leg each day can be longer before you need to stop to charge. That’s how I did my 7700 mile road-trip in my 2020 Chevy Bolt, which has a much lower peak charging rate.
Thank you very much for this video and all of the research behind it. My next vehicle will definitely be an EV but I’ve been hard-pressed on determining which one. This really helps! My four biggest factors in my next purchase: Styling, price, performance and range (in that order). Thanks for all your content, it’s much appreciated!
Another car to have considered would be another EV6, but with the RWD powertrain with 310 miles of EPA range.
That’s the one I’m going for. I don’t need the AWD, and the extra range and lower price are welcome. I’m waiting to take possession for 6 months now, and I still do t have a date fixed…
ECO mode uses (I believe) only the rear wheel motor. I charged my Wind AWD last night to 100%, and it gave me an estimated range of 352 miles. This morning I did a 148 mile round trip on I90 from Spokane, WA to Ritzville, WA in ECO mode at 70mph w/out the A/C and with regen level 0 and had a estimated range of 150 miles when I got home.
This is what I began to discover on a several hundred mile trip last week. When I was car shopping, range was my top priority. I now realize that the combination of range and charging speed is what really matters. My range anxiety when I first purchased was VERY high, but now that I've put on a little more than 1k miles, I realize how unfounded my fears really were. If anybody reading this hasn't pulled the trigger yet because you're worried about your range vs an ICE car, you can relax. It's not the bogeyman people have made it out to be.
Wish I could. My area you have to pay $5/hour to park at a level 2 charger and you'd need to uber from it to work and back. Live in a condo where it is virtually impossible to get power brought to my parking space without the whole community voting to get it installed. I'll dream for the next 10 years until I move to a new area where I can hopefully install at home charging.
I wouldn't want to have to use a super charger every week because that wont be good for the battery.
@@acephantom903 Perhaps you could reach out to the community and see their thoughts on the matter. It would be nice if you got some unexpected support on the initiative.
@@hermanwooster8944 It has been brought up but it doesn't have support -- we also now have 2 EVs in the neighborhood. I've talked to them and they are charging at work.
@@acephantom903 That's a real shame. I would think maybe one or two community charging spots within walking distance of your home would be an acceptable compromise.
@@hermanwooster8944 agreed. If we did install a handful of spots around the community, it would make the community more attractive to younger people which means more property value, but they don't want to start the process.
This is why I purchased a Toyota Rav 4 Prime plug-in with 42 miles of EV range
85% of my driving is in EV and the 15% in gasoline at 40 mpg and 5 min per fill ups.
Vacations are for relaxing. EVs on road trips are not relaxing.
Hi. I have an Ioniq 5 long range RWD EV. A recent trip of 95 miles each way showed plenty of of range at over 40 miles. That’s a comfortable 200 miles at 64 mph in flat Ohio. Topography must make a huge difference as to range. Very informative comparisons and the data is excellent. Thanks.
loved this video and stats provided...this had a lot of hours put in to make this video...thank you so much for doing this for those interested in EVs and their performance to make informed decisions....I do think we will be seeing more charging stations as the demand for them increases and more switches to EVs occur
I came to similar conclusions on my 600+ mile road trip this summer, using in-car Tesla suggested charging stops. I’d some times hit a charging stop with 40% battery, wondering when I was going to do with the rest of it 😂 charging every 130-200 miles worked out for my physical need for breaks, so no complaints there. Had I been traveling with less patient kids or adults, it might have been a different story
Thanks for your continued support!
agree that any EV with a range of ~250 miles is more than adequate. Having done quite a bit of long distance travel in a Tesla 3 and a Chevy Bolt what becomes clear is that what really matters is efficiency, battery capacity, charge speed, and charger availability/reliability.
While cars such as the Porsche Taycan can (theoretically) charge at 270 kw, their poor efficiency effectively negates this potential advantage. It's even worse for a vehicle like a Rivian or F150 Lightning. Efficiency really matters.
As for charge speed, while all EVs must adjust speed based on fullness of the battery, there are big differences. In the case of the Bolt versus Tesla comparison, the difference is stark. While the Bolt maxes out at about 50KW, the Tesla will do 250KW. Both taper as they charge, but if you keep the Tesla in the sweet spot the charge rates are pretty impressive. On a recent trip I charged the car for 6 minutes and got 95 miles....
But the bigger issue is real world charger availability/reliability. What's missing from an ABRP virtual trip is what happens in the real world. With the Bolt (and any other non-Teslas) the biggest issue is that each charging location has maybe 4 chargers and maybe half of them actually work....this is with Electrify America. By comparison, with our Tesla we can count on a minimum of 8 stalls with all of them working. Additionally, with the Tesla we already know if stalls are available before we get to the charger, and the car is smart enough to re-route to a different charge location if that would be faster. With the Bolt it's pretty much hit and miss.
So, while the information you presented is interesting, it's not really indicative of what one would expect in the real world. In the real world efficiency is as important as charge rate, infrastructure quality is hugely important, and connectivity between the car and the charging infrastructure makes a huge difference.
As Tesla has concluded, anything more than 350 mile range is basically just bragging rights, and there is a substantial cost for those rights. I would argue that the Lucid would actually be a substantially better car if it had a 400 mile range. Vehicles like the Taycan, BMW EVs, Audi EVs, Mercedes EVs, and the current electric trucks are severely penalized in real world usability by their poor efficiency.
Interesting topic, and thanks for taking the time to do the experiment you did.
Thank you for sharing!
250 miles is adequate? 😂 not in the US. If thats true we would see small EV cars like asia and EU but we have big expensive ev with everything trying to get atleast 300 pricing at $50k.
You said Tesla is biased toward longer charging stops. However, you can set the parameters in ABRP to have more short stops with any car. You can set the starting and arrival State of charge to reduce overall time for the trip also. Kyle Conner knows how to game the system with any car. Watch the Out of Spec Motoring channel to see how it’s done. He does mental calculations on the fly and he’s not afraid to arrive at a stop with 5% and leave with 35% depending on the charging stops displayed on the map.
Unfortunately, the maximum distance between charges is limited by the fact that the chargers are so few and far between, not because the EV does not deliver on its estimated EPA range. In other reviews of the EV6, for example, while highway speed range was below the 274 miles they were closed to 250 to 260 miles. So if chargers, like gas stations, were widely available, the EV6 would still have amazing total travel time numbers if they only need to stop for a charge at around 240 miles.
P.S. Picked up my EV6 GT-LINE AWD Aug. 10th and am learning new things about how to set it up almost everyday. It is a techie wonder. Rides much better than my 2015 Model S. which I traded. Thanks for this analysis.
You give the most informative information ! Thank You so much ...
Because ABRP is such an amazing resource for EV owners and prospective EV buyers I am very happy to support their efforts by paying a yearly subscription to them. I am not affiliated with ABRP, just an avid user. Before I bought my Kia EV6 Light (small battery RWD) I used ABRP to do “what if” scenarios with several used and new EV models such as an older Model S, a new Model 3, a Chevy Bolt and others. I put in specific destinations that I valued for road tripping and compared the trip times and it was very enlightening. In my case the West Virginia CCS black hole was significant for non Teslas but it turned out that even a small battery EV6 can make that jump in ABRP theory and in reality as I have now proven to myself in real life after 3 times traveling through there this spring and summer.
Thank you for bringing this to more people’s attention and thank you for the well reasoned, high quality content that you produce. It’s always a pleasure watching your videos and I am more well-informed afterwards.
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Awesome video 👍😁. I actually did a similar analysis between all the available EVs in my price range before I decided to buy the Tesla model 3. But my 2nd choice would have been an EV6 for sure based on the charge times on a road trip. I just hope public CCS fast charging infrastructure improves drastically and/or Tesla superchargers being opened for CCS vehicles gets implemented soon. 👏 I am waiting anxiously for the Ioniq 6 release 😅☺️
Another option that people keep forgetting, Roadside motels with slower chargers. Really it's not a bad thing to take a night rest after driving for so many hours in a day. Something folks used to do way more in the past. Then your car can recharge the same way you can, and you don't need these really high peak charge speeds that are stressing the network.
Yes quick charging is important, but it shouldn't be the only option we'd have to look at.
please look at the real world tests from other people who have done it. All winners were Tesla (for a 3000 to 5000 mile trip) Does not matter where you go. it is NOT the car, it is the charging infrastructure. There are billion comments on where the station is working, how fast, some not delivering etc. This is only for all other cars other than Tesla. People are reviewing comments on plug share to see if the charger works, which one, which is down etc. I never looked at any of these. Before I go to a tesla charge station, i know how many chargers are free when I get there. I would say "too much stress". You can have the best / longest range car, if you cannot charge it, it is useless.
Thank you for sharing your research. Good quality thoughts for someone shopping for an EV.
Another very interesting comparison.
I fully agree that giving a range which you cannot use more than 70% without damaging your battery is not very honest.
Just reming also that LFP batteries are allowed to be used between 10 and 100% without damaging the battery. Even more, it's advised to charge them to 100% at least once a week. On the other side, those batteries, with equivalent power, give a little short range and are less efficient when it's cold.
Throw in variables like cold weather really impact that range and would completely change the outcome. The ability to correctly handle the thermal management in the cold and propere battery pre-conditioning also plays a role on speed. Availability of 350kw chargers would severely limit your outcome on the EV6 and many times you would be stuck waiting to be able to use the faster charger.
Range is important in the cold since it is so severely impacted, but like you mentioned the overall range as rated probably isn't the deciding factor for speed on the trip. The reality that you aren't supposed to charge to 100% and run it to 0% and to keep the car in the sweet spot for a given vehicle charging curve programming also plays a role.
There was a fun race run by Out of Spec Motoring where the Porsche won, but it really could have gone to several of them, but it turned out to be luck of the draw on charger stops, speed, waiting, cold gating, and strategy based on the vehicle charging profiles and locations. They had an Ioniq in the race that should been far more competitive but thermal management killed it and it was cold gating too much early on in the race.
I think you will want to organize some friendly races with some other EV owners and see how it turns out. Luck and chance sometimes lay to waste the best plans.
hi, great video. It would be gr8 to see the difference based on the speed comparison like on your previous video. As you showed there was a difference of 41% based on doing a slower speed, which means less charging stops. :)
I think this was such a GREAT review and travel-recap analysis!!! I appreciate it so much! …… As a side note: in Oct 2022 I bought my first EV6 (2022 Wind) as a consequence of the video’s, then just two days ago (Jan 4, 2023) I bought our second EV6 (2023 GT-Line). Trading in both times (each time) a recent vintage Toyota 4-wheel drive Hybrid. At first thinking seriously about whether going to whole way (EV) in was a high risk or not. BUT I LOVE THIS CAR!!! (And this video convinces me!!!) And I believe that They will make them even better😊.
You're right about road trips, but, if you have the ability to charge at home, range is a HUGE advantage. It greatly increases your travel radius from your home, where you can charge on the cheap, off-hours electricity. Long range can cut your cost per mile of electricity in half or better, by erasing the need for expensive public charging. To me, it's well worth the extra money, to get the extended range battery in whatever car you chose.
Thanks your video helps prove my point that as long as you have enough range to get to the next charger the cars and the chargers peak charging speed is all that matter on a road trip. I believe why the model Y was not as good as the ev6 was again the charging speed. I believe the model Y has about a 210 KW peak I might be wrong on that though, but v3 super chargers only have a max of 250 KW. This is one of the big reason that 800 volt cars can't reach their peak charge speed on v3 chargers with magic doc. Range is only a problem with cars that have less than 100 miles or just over. I believe that 150 is the minimum needed and as more chargers pop up it will decrease.
Absolutely wonderful video. Loved it
very cool and would like to see how Aptera (1000mi range, 10mi/kWh) compares. the 400mi version could be your $30K solution
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The main question is how is this range achieved. For example, the Ioniq 6 is lighter, has the same battery size and charging speed as the KIA EV6 and has WLTP of 583km (LR, AWD, 19”) versus 484km(LR, AWD, 20”) for the EV6, an improvement of ~20%. So in this simulation it may be better than EV6 or Lucid. Because it will need 4 less stops than EV6, but the average charging time will not be longer.
Also, if you know that at the average stop you will have a snack or use the restroom, it is better for E-GMP cars to set at least 85% in the ABRP this extra 5% only costs 4 extra minutes per stop, but on your trip it can save two stops because 17 stops with this extra 5% will give you ~65 kWh to your battery.
Hi Mahesh , great video as always. Very interesting stats. Keep going 👍
Hi there, nice video and a LOT of work put in! Charging curves really are where it's at! Next to range/efficiency, that's where the magic lies. Or in other words, we should rather look at average charging speeds and "charging pattern" than at peak rates, completely agree.
Some cars will give you more usable range than others. Compare the EGMP cars to a Nissan Ariya 87kWh i.e.. Ariya has a peak rate of 130kW, but in real world use (at least in the climate we have here now, which is hovering between 0 and 17°C, it will only make 115kW max. That literally is half of what the EGMP cars will give you. BUT: Ariya gives you a lot more range to begin with (WLTP), plus it gives you more usable range. How so? Ariya has a massive low end buffer, so you can easily drive the car down to 5%. Still plenty of range and power left. Furthermore, it has an amazingly flat charging curve, about the flattest out there right now. Speeds stay high up to 90%. That gives you 85% usable capacity of an already bigger pack, opposed to the 70% of a smaller pack with the EGMP cars. Furthermore, Ariya will charge said 85% in just 41 minutes at an average rate of 105,4kW. With a peak of 115kW mind you, so it's super easy on the grid and the battery, while having very little losses. If need be, it will even charge up to 95% in just 45 minutes, giving you 90% of usable range at an average charging speed of 100kW. To top it off, it will do 5 to (almost) full range of 99% in 51 minutes at an average speed of 93,6kW. That's 310mi added right there in a good 50 minutes. Set ABRP to use that charging pattern, and the Ariya actually is the fastest of them all. Who would have thought? I did a 2000Km road trip with my car, and it seems to deliver exactly that.
Thanks for your insight!
Very interesting! I'll keep it in mind for my EV
my stretch of 1200 KM ( sleep stops after 600 km) with an EV6 GT or a Cupra Born 55Kw gives me a ABRP difference of 35 Minutes while doing 2 charges more on the Cupra @125KM/h thru Austria/Germany , this while using Ionity Chargers Only along the highway.
7:15 vs 6:40
this probably due to the higher battery capacity AND charging speed of the EV6.
the 58KWH Battery is Just ok for this monthly trip, but i'm eagerly waiting for the GT6
Normally we did this trip in a 70 Liter Tank Diesel car @160KMh and only about 30 minutes faster per stretch
Thank you for sharing your experience 🙂
thanks for your analysis!
Good method and rigor to show long trip performance.
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Get a Tesla right now because of the charging network you have more options. Choose charging longer stops when you a longer stop is more convenient. You can then deviate from abrp if chargers are also crowded.
Great video👍 and well done on all the research and time this would have taken. To be honest the “range thing” stems from main stream media and car reviewers who never use an EV on a daily basis and therefore never really understood that the important thing is a mix of range and charging speeds combined., but just get fixated on battery range!Strange thing is in Europe/UK that the AWD is just over 500km which equates to 310miles. So why in the States that they quote 276miles 🤔🤷🏻♂️. You will have probably upset a few Tesla fan boys with this as well. 🤣
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He don't know the outofspec real world test.
In the test, Ioniq5 was faster than model s, model 3 and mach e.
It is not small difference between ioniq5 and mach e.
And it was hindered significantly by the lack of battery pre-conditioning at the start when it was cold outside. I’d love to see a recreation of the race if/when I5 gets pre-conditioning. I think it could give the taycan a run for its money.
The model y charges slower then a ev6 on paper and the real world range on highway is more like 260-270.
No one takes an hour long break after 2-3hr of road trip 😂 you fill up, pee, get snacks back on the road in 10 mins.
I think it's a really good comparison, you can't really take into account buzy/broken chargers.. I mean at least most people buy a car to have many years as as the charger networks get better you can take advantage of that, if you have a car with low range and low charging speed you cannot, so buying that is kind of short sighted. :)
You are right, but consider that these type of road trips won’t happen very often. Probably once a year. So the majority of use cases can be dealt with a car with shorter range. And the majority of the charging will be happening at home, slower and cheaper.
Yes but those few times a year I want to charge quicky and have fair range, but ofc it depends on what you can and are willing to afford, my gf thinks it’s too expensive :)
You must look into the aptera you’ll be amaze
What happens if that charger doesn't work. Then your stuck
Thank you
Thanks for your support!
If I'm driving long distance alone I like to go 5 hrs between stops. Probably not good for my bladder. When an EV can do that I'll use it for long trips. For now it's ICE.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support! 🙏
I think u should the EV6 GT line RWD with 310 miles of range.
It wouldn't change much. EPA requires, from my reading and experience w our EV6 awd, the car to be rated in AWD mode. You can change the drive mode easily to Eco and it disengages the front motor and acts as a RWD. Just finished a nearly ideal, no climate control, interstate trip in ours yesterday I'm the low 70's mph range and achieved 3.71 miles per kwh. That equates to a range of 287 miles highway. Pretty good when the epa measure of 273 includes lower speed city driving. We usually have a city bias and see around 350 mile range in eco mode and careful driving with modest AC use. Regardless, fast charging covers a lot. Saw 231kw charging yesterday, though falls to 130kw after a few mins. Regardless, our bladders and food dominate our stopping time more than charging did.
I would never drive that distance. Nit without spreading it out over several days. About 500 miles is al I would drive in a day, or about 7:30 hrs driving. With an XC40 that would be no more than 45 minutes charging, not that much longer than any of the other EVs you ran here.
Mahesh, I don't think your virtual assumption is right. Tesla will always (regardless of the model) will win, because, all other cars will have to wait, towed, or get far less charging speed, unlike Tesla charge stations. You are comparing to 1 or 2 or 5 charging points at a station vs 10, 15 or 50 charging points at a charging station. I always found a charging point with out waiting. Also consider that ccs1 charging stations are down by 20% to 50%. where as Tesla charging stations are up by 99.5%. Tesla charging is plug it in. no app, no fiddling with your phone, no calling the customer service of the charging station etc. etc. etc.
What about the Mercedes EQE 350+?
Interesting idea but i think your methodolgy is flawed once you consider 'real life' and you did hint at this but not get into details.
Unless you actually have 2 or 3 drivers swapping seats for continuous driving this is a drive that will take place over several days to a week or longer. After all the road trip isnt just for the purposes of driving rather than sightseeing, sleeping etc?
So, the main thing is to consider overnight stops and full charging. Once you start off each day with a full charge (because you picked places you could overnight charge of course ...) then the difference will be much less because you'd only be looking at a couple of stops a day at most. Take the Lucid at an extreme, you might not even need to charge every day, or maybe just once because every morning you have 500 miles range which is roughly a days driving and definitely a days driving if the trip is a week long.
You said extra range doesnt matter above a certain point but if that extra range gets you to your next overnight stop where you can fully charge, massive benefit.