Dragon Type Pokemon in ADV (And why they Finally Worked)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2022
- Back with another Pokémon video and my first ever to focus on Gen 3 rather than 1, focusing on the Dragon Type in ADV. Dragon is notorious both for being absurdly good in Gens 4 and 5 and weirdly incomplete in Gens 1 and 2, but what's the story with Gen 3?
Twitter: / veryspicyjoe
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#ADV #Dragon #Smogon - เกม
4:30 “Normalnite would be a nightmare and destroy us all!”
>Sideeyes Gen 9 Dragonite
Bombastic side eye 👀
“God I fuckin’ hate Dragonite.”
Extreme killer?
Fun fact: After a swords dance, gen 4 garchomp could 2 hit every single pokemon in the game.
He needs it
@@BigYellowSilly NEEDS it?garchomp is already so strong
It must use Outrage if it wants to get past Cresselia though and that leaves it as a sitting duck after a kill since it'll then be locked in which turns it into more of a wall-breaker than a sweeper.
@@ShiningJudgment666 still 2hko
@@whydoiexist2180 It is. I know. It's an impressive feat on something so insanely bulky. Hence the term wall-breaker. That's not all though. Chomp itself was fairly bulky (not losing if it's poked by just any Ice Beams), in a trolly (in a good way for Garchomp) speed tier, Sand Veil allowing potential sacky wins against checks, a good enough movepool (just the right moves).
People always say shite like this casually but "Dragonite is an alternative to Salamence like throwing a gun is an alternative to shooting it" is one of the best analogies I've heard in months
In Gen 4, it was still OU even when Mence was still in the tier and it has Superpower over Brick Break meaning it was better at getting past Ttar and Blissey as a mixed attacker. Once Mence got banned, it simply took over. In Gen 5, it was a legit alternative with Multiscale becoming a thing.
@@ShiningJudgment666 Yes, but this was because Gen4 are completely different games than the Gen3 ones.
Dragonite does have twave tho and if you stay away from an ice hitter, he does fairly well. After waving could sub and dance etc. He has vulnerability but he does also have versatility.
By that logic, Altaria is an alternative to Salamence like a BB Gun is an alternative to a rifle.
@@FancyMcSchmancy lolol 🤣
“Pursuit Tar” sounds like a Mega Man weapon.
i'd argue the worst loss of a move in a generational shift was zapdos in bdsp losing heat wave.
Omg I had no idea that's fucked up
And hidden power and hurricane as well.
Zapdos has NOTHING in BDSP
Doesnt even have tailwind for doubles, its unsalvageable garbage in bdsp
that's how he fell out of usage. well, part of it
And toxic too
But I think that Espeed on Dragonite is his signature move and completely fucked up when it misses it.
"Rayquaza is the worst of the three"
After experiencing the terror of mega raycraycray, this sentence feels like culture shock.
Yeahhhh turns out having 780 BST is pretty good
rayquaza also got dragon ascent as a HUGE upgrade to STAB (outrage and Draco have downsides) which is super relevant - a dragon ascent rayquaza in gen 3 would be much better imo
@@aaaaaa-ts3rw and not to forget that mega Rayquaza is the only mega that's able to use an item too
I never understood why people had issues with Mega Rayquaza. I used to use Ho-Oh to burn them and deal with them or in Gen 7 I would just use Marshadow to deal with it easily lol
@@Marixchatt you don't understand why 180 attack and spA, access to boosting moves, excellent dragon AND flying STAB, extremespeed, and 115 speed was problematic?
I could get some calcs but I know neither of those mons counters and I'm not sure if marshadow even checks tbh, ray isn't that frail
Frankly I don't think there's a mon in the game that properly counters megaray
@@aaaaaa-ts3rw I always used it’s signature Z-move to take out rayquaza every single time I saw some, especially one that spammed extreme speed. Also burning the rayquaza and then substitute Ho-oh.
But yeah, I never had trouble with m rayquaza.
"To be fair, unlike Garchomp it's not that good in Ubers"
Honestly, even being in Ubers is still a testament to how strong Salamance was. Even if a pokemon is pretty bad in Ubers, they're still better than the majority of pokemon there. I don't think anyone argues that pokemon like Lugia are good. Despite not doing good in Ubers, it's still way too strong for any other tier
Yeah but it’s important to address that point. It adds nuance to the discussion where the alternatives being reductive which always leads to the “2OP PLZ NRF” rant. It’s not only nice but it’s vital to say “yes. This IS better than most things, but it’s not an oppressive monster. It’s simply amazing but still vastly overshadowed”. Even if you don’t think it’s warranted it’s still good to set that precedent because it makes all discussions more civil.
they need to make a UUbers tier to give these "OUBL" pokemon a chance to shine
Ah, I remember when Lugia was completely busted.
Except Reshiram, whatever niches it tries to get is utterly outclassed. Tailwind? Gale Wings Talonflame, Special Sweeper? Kyurem White
@@salvadorsanchez5057 They actually did that in ORAS when Mega Rayquaza was introduced. It was just called Ubers though
tbh the thing that I dislike about dragon the most is the fact that Steel resists everything dragon is weak to. But that's more an issue with steel being allowed to get away with resisting 2/3rds of the game.
I mean, resisting 2 [or 3, depending on the time-frame] things isn't exactly the highest of bars
Especially when one of them is Ice, the notoriously most-dunkable type in the series
I suppose if any of them are up for contention, however, it'd be why Steel even resists Dragon
Like I get maybe it's the logic of "Armored knights slay dragons" but like...it's _dragons,_ c'mon now
But I guess trying to make logic of type match-ups is futile, because almost any match-up can have an argument made for why it should or should not be Like That
@@WhimsicottFanatic steel is really fucking strong, and we needed something to resist dragon. it was the only thing that really made sense. also, dragons are magic, and iron has magic resistance of some sort.
Steel is balanced, at least in theory, by being defensively weak to very common and strong coverage types (Ground, Fighting, and Fire). It's also pretty bad offensively, especially in the pre-fairy gens.
The thing is Jimmy, the reason those types are so good is PRECISELY because they beat steel. If freaking bug was strong against steel, it would be a good offensive type. That’s how things work.
@@Rarest26 I personally disagree. Fighting and Ground would still be very good coverage types if Steel wasn't a type. Earthquake is one of the most highly distributed 100 BP physical moves in the game, and hits many types for neutral damage. Fighting type moves hit a lot of types for supereffective damage (including important ones like Dark for Psychic types). Fighting also has Close Combat, which is honestly one of the best moves in the game period. I will concede that fire may not be as good for coverage if Steel didn't exist.
I admit that their ability to hit steel undoubtedly plays a part in the type's strengths, however they would very likely still be potent coverage types even without Steels existing.
The reason dragon is so under-utilised in gen 1 is because it was a last minute addition, funnily enough.
The other types added late into development, ghost and bug, have similar issues. With few stabs, and those stabs being easy to copy paste another type on top of. The scrapped bird type was also added at this point I believe, which is why so many “wind” moves in gen 1 are normal.
I remember there being evidence for Dragon and Ghost but what supports Bug being a late type?
do you have a source for this? Intresting!
@@maskofthedragon I believe it was added after the break in the types which ends with rock. The bug thing *could* be educated speculation, but I remember reading about it on the helix chamber.
@@masked-feraligatr1094 how is it educated? have you forgotten that the original inspiration from pokemon came from catching bugs? caterpie is practically one of the first pokemon the game throws at you and the first dungeon in the game is literally a forest full of them, not to mention the bug catchers and the gags that involve them.
@@wertyxq3468 that unironically gives MORE precedent to them being a late addition actually, not disproves it. One of the single most common things in development is building the beginning of the game last because it’s the part with the least variables. You build tall tall mountain before bobomb battlefield because TTM doesn’t need to intrinsically guide the player and get them accommodated with the controls you know?
Bugs being such a very early appearing and focused on type would make sense to be a late type because they’re crafting the opening to show you the ropes, so two bug types that evolve early with one of them getting all of the moves for that type makes sense if you’re looking at it from the hypothetical view point that now that they’re focusing on the first stretch of the game they want something to get players to understand evolution and type matchups even if they picked bulbssaur, and this last minute addition can do that well. Especially when you remember there’s like 6 fully evolved bug lines, and two of them don’t learn bug moves. Pinsir and scyther might hypothetically been retroactively given that if we’re speculating further but you get the point; TLDR bugs could possibly be a late addition despite Pokémons inspiration because they wanted a type that could be used to teach the player mechanics when working on the beginning of the game later in development like many devs do.
"man it would be awful if we got normal type dragonite"
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO
"I feel like you don't see Wish Salamence a ton, but I WISH it was more common."
I find it funny how, in gen 1, dragonite really wished it was a normal type.
Now in gen 9, dragonite has transitioned using terastilization and can spam boosted extreme speeds to their hearts content. Good for you, dragonite.
Dragon type exists as it does in gen 1 because it was designed to be the typing of Lance's, the second-to-last boss fight's signature monster. It has a wide pool of resists to all the basic elemental types (water, grass, fire to cover the three starters, and electric for good measure) and one weakness that may not be immediately obvious (ice). The type was designed for the defensive properties it gives Dragonite and Dragonair and not much else, which feeds into the interesting qualities it takes on in later generations (no resists for dragon attacks besides steel).
Gen 1's design decisions are really interesting. You could tell it was more about the single player RPG elements than multiplayer balance at that point. Other examples include Onix only having 45 Attack.
@@jimmyjuice697 Oh yeah that actually makes a lot of sense in the context of Brock's gym
@@jimmyjuice697 ^
@@jimmyjuice697 Also Ghost type being completely pointless and Fighting being garbage
they still could've given Lance a STAB move to use lol
That genuine nerd bliss when you talk about things like Gust Flygon or Wish Salamence makes videos like this very fun to watch. Your passion for the videos you create makes me interested in learning quirks about games I have never played in my life, keep it up!
Big F for Flygon, who was a very unique and viable option until being tossed into the shadow of the next gen's dragon/ground type
And I never forgave Game Freak for that. >:(
Yeah. Chomp didn't even like, fill a drastically different niche, either...
Never since has a Pokemon been so immediately and violently power crept
poor flygon his mega even got scrapped for whatever reason
@@sangan3202
Gamefreak: Flygon doesn't get a mega because we had artist's block
Also Gamefreak: we made a 3D rendering of the Hoenn region with primal forms for the legendary trio as well as created a bunch of new characters and trainer classes along with several new mega evolutions.
I was really hoping CB Gust would be brought up, it’s such a hilarious thing to exist but yeah it existing just as a “screw Heracross” button makes complete sense
Kinda reminds me of Ferrothorn running HP fire for Kartana
The distribution for Aerial Ace is so dumb: Gyarados (a Flying type ) and Flygon (a Levitating Dragon) can't learn it. Yet all the grounded Pokémon like Charmander and Diglett can learn it.
I run Rock Smash on my gen 6 Zapdos specifically for Tyranitar.
@@tylerd1297digglet learns aerial ace??? Lmfao
@@soleo2783 indeedee. It's Dugtrio's primary means of hitting Breloom and Heracross in OU
Most people probably don't know this, but Outrage was originally a gen 2 move exclusive to Dragonite. Unfortunately, it was only 90 power and still special at the time, but hey, its better than Dragon Breath. Really like the format that you used for this video and I think it could work really well with other types too. Specifically, Ghost and Dark types, which have a really weird relationship with the lack of a physical special split in gen 3. It is honestly pretty baffling that Gen 3 Ghost types are built to account for this and Dark types mostly just aren't
Honestly I would say it's worse, being locked into a weak special move is crazy exploitable in Gen 2, at least with Dragonbreath you could fish for para maybe
Yeah… Outrage before Gen 4 sucked. It was not worth it, even in ADV, where you don’t have Max Stats from Gen 2.
Even Rayquaza Outrage is a massive noob trap in ADV Ubers just like Electrode and Pre Low Kick Machamp in RBY OU. Cough cough. In-game Rayquaza experience and Lance’s Level 50 Dragonite.
God, poor, poor Absol.
@@BigYellowSillyyeah okay cool... but could u do the video idea. Plis ;( It sounds super interesting. Dark just doesnt really make sense to me especially in the older gens. And is probably my least used type.
Dragonite Outrage does have a place in Gen 2, it's a cleanup sweep.
Fireblast, Return, Agility and Outrage is a pretty viable set.
Just don't dare click outrage while the enemy Snorlax and Blissey are healthy lol
In Gen 1, Ghost and Dragon is barely a type. Only one line for each. It might as well be a family and not a type. And Gen 2 added their aunt and uncle respectively.
What Gen 2 did almost annoys me more because they literally looked back on the state of Dragon and Ghost in Gen 1 and said "ok let's just do that again but with even worse Pokemon"
@@BigYellowSilly Lest we also forget how the two Ghosts were Special attackers.... And Ghost was Physical until Gen 4.
@@sarasaland4709 Gen 3 adding Physical options for thus type was pretty great (even if none were that good afaik)
@@sarasaland4709 And then they did the reverse with Dark types. High attack, but all moves are special. I just don't understand.
@@brocksteele7475 Part of me suspects they accidentally switched them up when assigning their attack category, since even the types themselves would fit better thematically if they were the other way around.
"But they weren't introduced at the same time", one may point out. Well, considering a lot of Gen 2 stuff are things they couldn't implement in Gen 1, they might already have planned Dark at the time.
Oh, and there was even a battle CD in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness whose purpose is specifically to demonstrate how broken gen 3 Wobbuffet was. Houndoom is the star of the show, but you don't lead it. You need a way to get it in safely and the opponent won't oblige. Then you realize it's doubles format...
Dragonite losing E-Speed is the worst thing to lose in the Gen Shifts? I like to object.
How about ALL THE NORMAL TYPES DPS losing Return in Gen 8, and cannot learn Double-Edge for some dumb reason, while we are on that, what about Pursuit?
Watched the new FSG vid on Stoutland today and seeing what happened in Gen 8 was so sad
RIP the good boy. Not just in the anime now.
And prior to BDSP you couldn't even use Rock Climb either. (It's wildly inferior, for sure, but it's something at least)
@@BigYellowSilly it being forced to run facade kinda actually gives it some anti-status counterplay in singles. Although it would still like to have return/frustration as generic normal stab moves
@@BigYellowSilly National Dex is the way to go for Gen 8, imo. You get the mechanic changes, some of which I genuinely like like the buffed teleport, while also not losing so much from past generations. I really hope they add back what was lost in gen 9, but I'm not holding my breath.
The drag-mag graphic got me laughing out loud, loved it
The phrase "perish." is exactly how it felt to use in gameplay
It's hilarious how Dragon was supposed to be the big bad monster type with epic power but it took them so many years to realize it sucked.
and then they made it so good they had to introduce fairy types to nerf it.
@@rishabhanand4973 but forgot to nerf fairy
@@reddytoplay9188 now they should add a new op type to nerf fairy
Dragon is a type carried by the Mons that have it tbh, helps that many of them are boxart/trio master legends LOL
@@enn1924No: there’s something more important that should be done first (nerf Water).
I honestly think fairies should resist dragon instead of being immune to it. I feel like dragons got nerfed too hard because if this. Fairies should also get a nerf, id say take away its resistance to bug, bug already sucks, it doesn’t need the best type in the game griefing it like that.
Double down and make Ice resist it. Ice is still the worst defensive typing in the game, whilst it's stab Ice beam and Ice punch gets thrown around generically. Like, throw Ice-types a bone and give us more of a reason to use them without it feeling bad.
Make Fairy weak to, and resisted by, Psychic. Trickster magic doesn't work on an enemy that can read your mind. This would also be a good way to bring Psychic from a mediocre type to one worth running on its own merits.
My hot take is that dragon was never a particularly great type, it was just given to great Pokemon. That's why there have only ever been 3 dragon types in OU with less than 600 BST in the entire history of the game. Steel and fairy on the other hand are very overtuned.
@@moaa042 Dragon had strange appeals for a type.
Two weaknesses, only one of which was remotely common and 4 fairly common resistances made them good defensively, meanwhile only 1 sort-of rare-ish type resistant to it, and usually unable to threaten it, making it one of the safest coverage STABs in the game, while other types don't want to run it to check dragon's, because they make up such a small portion of the game and Return was usually a better coverage option damage wise. This kind of made the Dragon-type a Normal-type on steroids.
So the type was kinda great in some of the boring-est and safest ways.
honestly id keep fairy's immunity but dragon should actually be super effective against something besides itself. either water, electric, or fire are fine choices for me
I remember when BW came out that Druddigon stood out to me as being a uniquely mediocre dragon type, in the second generation in a row with far too many overpowered dragons
Honestly, despite seeming like a pseudo, Haxorus was equally disappointing. Good for False Swipe and HM slaving, but not pseudo material. Or if it was, bottom tier of a pseudo only list.
Gotta love druddigons lack of energy, go girl give us nothing!
@@isenokami7810 It's not a pseudo at all, and was still absolutely brutal with the right support. The main issue is just that it's a Dragon that doesn't have amazing speed (97 is very good but by Gen 5 standards it's BARELY too low to make some stuff work), and too frail to really get setup going unless it's given a free turn.
If it does get that free turn to set up a Dragon Dance or Swords Dance though, it becomes an EXTREMELY scary beast; +1, or even +2, Outrage off a 147 base ATK stat, is always going to be a scary proposition
@@Jfrost9101 Yeah, support. That’s something I don’t tend to use, but watching Yellow has made me more aware of the problem. See, I don’t play competitive Pokémon, I just do casual runs of the campaigns and such, and the status and support moves are better served in the former. High level play, buffs and status effects play a much bigger role, clearly some Pokémon are mainly viable because of that stuff. In casual game runs, though, coverage and just attacking the opponent almost always feels like the more optimal play over screwing with buffs. Which means that Pokémon that need or are centered around support suffer, such as Haxorus and Purrloin; I tried making Purrloin into something that functions offensively, it’s painful.
That said, I do want to explore status stuff more, it’s just that my preferred way to enjoy Pokémon is a bad environment for it. Outside of XD, at least. And hey, I have some favorites: Dragon Dance was great on my XD Flygon, gonna have to try it on my next Haxorus then, and Rock Polish can really help the Geodude line, overlooked that one for so long.
As someone who likes the Fairy type a lot; I must admit that they really blundered the fairy type. It feels a lot like if the steel type and dark type were both shoved into one, especially since it has similar purposes to what those two types did in gen 2 (buff some types, nerf some others). I kinda hope GameFreak will introduce another new type that nerfs fairy (ideally while buffing ice and bug) eventually, but I also kinda assume they would find some way to mess that up.
...That being said tho, I tend to be kinda annoyed by dragon types. Hope we start getting not-them pseudo-legendaries again before the sun freezes over.
I agree with the pseudo legendaries bit. I am so tired of dragon type pseudo legendaries. Give us a bug type psuedo.
Salamance being able to learn Wish is one of my favorites pieces of flavor in Pokémon.
Honestly this is only tangentially related to the topic but this just reminds me of the adventures I had as a kid trying to find "that cool blue dragon the pirate guy used".
Cause see, back then I didn't have much in the way of Internet. I had no idea about Bagon at all, nobody actually uses Bagon itself, and I basically stumbled into the room it was in by chance when I finally noticed "hey I never went into the upper area of Meteor Falls before". And lol and behold, here comes this ugly rock headed dragon, and the pieces fell into place. I was like "holy crap there it is I finally found it". It was a real stand out moment of my gaming experiences as a child, finding stuff I never knew about beforehand and thinking I was the smartest turd on the block for it.
Salamence always kinda stayed as one of my favorite mons period because of that little childhood experience. If he's available in a game, I'll usually always go for him.
(mega salamence was a mistake tho)
Ages ago I got my parents to buy me Pokemon Sapphire in Japanese to play it early, and one of my favorite achievements while stumbling through that game in a language I didn't understand was eventually figuring out Sharpedo evolved from Carvanha from pokedex numbers. I was on top of the world that week.
I think I remember figuring out that Bagon is in the Meteor Falls somehow because of all the dragon trainers. But I'd never have figured out that it's in that room if a friend hadn't told me, I had no idea that Pokemon being restricted to an area that shared a name with another area was a possibility.
I had a very similar experience, and it’s one of the reasons Salamence is my favorite to this day.
@@PrestoGriff My ShineGreymonBM Can Use Starlight Explosion Which I Consider A Fairy Move!Salamence Died!I am A Master Of Digimon World Dawn/Dusk!Digimon Forever!
There's actually a Trainer with a Bagon, but he's VERY out of the way.
(It's one of the Trainers on Route 134, which at the exit side of the fast currents.)
This is interesting! Maybe a "Ghost types in Gen 1: Why Gengar still mattered even though Ghost was glitched."
Ghost was glitched because Psychic types had an immunity to it in Gen 1. Not that it mattered because Lick sucked anyway and Night Shade was fixed damage which in Gen 1 ignored typings.
Immune to BS and HB, high enough special to do damage and busted Hypnosis coming off a high speed stat. Completely destroyed Normal types (except the ones who just weathered all of its gimmicks like Chansey), but was completely destroyed by Psychic types. It's got exactly what it needed to make the metagame interesting with enough of a risk to make it not stale.
Good news man
Gotta love that magneton is in the same tier as rayquaza in ADV Ubers. Magnet pull rly is just that good
That's because Skarmory is so good.
I mean it sorta sets them up for success when they come pre baked with a laundry list of resistances to the franchise's type core and is also one of the types alongside Psychic that Game Freak really likes to make EVERY legendary and Pseudo out of.
This is true I hope in Gen 9 the Pseudo is some wacky shit like Grass/Electric
Yeah exactly, those two are honestly pretty ass nowadays, it’s just that people think they’re better than they actually are cause they gave it to the thing with busted ass stats. Look at Mega Ray for example.
@@Rarest26 Electric type has never been bad though
@@BigYellowSilly Bug/Poison, give my boy Weedle some love by giving it the same typing as a psuedo
@Titanicgamerdude I wasn’t talking about electric, rather dragon and psychic. Those two suck, electric is like middle of the pack
Speaking of Dragonite losing Extreme Speed on its transition to Gen III, a video on the lost movesets would be very interesting.
For example, I know my mans Nidoking misses the Lovely Kiss it had in Gen II immensely.
That'd be a fun idea, never thought of that tbh
Great video! A few things to note since ADV OU is the tier I'm most familiar with in all of pokemon.
Mixed mence is by far the most prevalent salamence set since it is by far the most slappable, since ddmence and cbmence both require more dedicated team structures to support it. It should be noted that unless you're brick breaking it on the switch in, blissey is actually a very good check to mixed mence, not the other way around. This is because you need sp atk investment on mixed mence and your brick breaks are never 2hko'ing blissey. This means that blissey can usually softboiled off hits and threaten with ice beam. You briefly mentioned wish, but it should be noted that bulky salamence running 4 of wish, protect, fire blast, toxic, and dragon claw is an incredible set and used on some iconic tournament teams. It's a fairly simple concept. toxic spreads lots of passive damage to non steel types and fire blast hits steels as well as celebi, so it isn't passive, but it becomes a really cool wish mon with a lot of defensive merit.
Flygon is one of the coolest pokemon in the tier imo. It's really less of a dragon type and more of a ground type in this tier, since it often functions as a glue mon on most teams it's on as a rock resist that's immune to spikes. You more or less covered the important stuff, but it is important to note that the lack of passive damage from everything aside from will o wisp and toxic make flygon much bulkier than you'd initially expect. Sure it isn't taking that aero double edge particularly well, but neither is even a dedicated defensive mon like milotic after it takes spikes and sand chip on the switch in (basically it's more of a credit to aero than a discredit to flygon).
Dnite's a weird mon and yeah it's kinda bad. The main things it has going for it over mence are boltbeam coverage, focus punch, and heal bell. I tried making it work once and it isn't terrible. It has the same sp atk stat as starmie which often also runs boltbeam (offensive sets usually have stab hydro pump tho). I could potentially see you fitting it if you squint hard enough if you for some reason need a mon with the defensive profile of salamence while also packing heal bell exactly. There're also some cheesy double dance stuff where you run both mence and dnite, tho I wouldn't recommend it if you're playing serious tho (sounds fun tho).
Finally, Kingdra has a fascinating place in the tier. Point blank, if your team isn't prepared for it, seeing a kingdra can be terrifying and game ending. It helps that most rain teams back anti sp wall stuff like dugtrio to trap blissey, celebi, and ttar to better facilitate the kingdra sweep. This make rain as an archetype (since kingdra is often the centerpiece of rain) a very matchup fishy archetype in ADV OU. Some matchups can be awful for rain, but some can be absolutely destructive. It's inconsistent, but it is a very powerful archetype and seeing if your opponent likes to use rain is very important to consider when preparing for tournament sets. On a similar note, weather resetting on its own is interesting. Sand is the main thing keeping behemoth win cons like cm rest suicune and curse snorlax in check from being overpowered (you can even argue snorlax is better in Ubers than OU since sand is rare in Ubers). This can be why weird pokemon can sometimes run a weather move just to clear the sand for no other benefit than allowing those win cons to setup easier, like rain dance magneton or sunny day dugtrio.
So yeah dragon types are sick in Gen 3 :)
Thanks so much for the insight! I like ADV a lot but RBY is defo what I'm most familiar with so I really appreciate stuff like this 🙏
If painting your nails to match ur hoodie was a purposeful decision just for this video that is so hype, Thank you Mr. Yellow for being a fashion icon.
Being a BL pokemon I think is usually comparable to being okay at competitive smash. You're too good to play casually with others as you'll always win and people won't want to play with you, but you're not good enough to be enjoying competitive, either by always going 0-2 at locals, or always losing against other good players, and as a result you just find the game frustrating and don't want to play it anymore.
I don't think ADV gets as much credit as it should for what it brought to the Pokemon series. Abilities, in my mind, continue to be one of the best ways to diversify Pokemon and create extra niches to fill. While gen 4's physical/special split did more to impact viability, ADV's abilities did more to impact diversity and unique teambuilding. Of course, that's not to mention how much it fleshed out a relatively limited held item system from Gen 2.
And the change to the ev system
I'd argue the physical special split isn't really any kind of innovation but just Pokemon finally doing what other games already were doing for a long time at said time. Shin Megami Tensei and Dragon Quest 5 are monster collectors way older than Pokemon and yet both those games already followed the general trend of how splitting physical attacks and magic attacks did in RPGs. Pokemon for some reason not even telling you what elements count as physical or magic is something I'd claim is just them being way behind in terms game design.
@@DrCoeloCephalo I do agree with this to some extent, but the physical/special split still heavily affected the game's direction moving forward. Mons like Sneasel and its (at the time) new evolution Weavile really appreciated this, for instance.
Honestly from 1 to 5 there were such drastic changes to the game it's insane - each game was almost totally different from the last (gen 5 was just a subtlety with team preview but that bonked the entire playstyle of competitive XD)
@@aaaaaa-ts3rw
Gen VIII is probably the first generation to NOT add anything super interesting
I remember when draco meteor was 140 based power and soul dew increases latios and latias sp.def and sp.a by 50% fun times LOL honestly they went too overboard with the nerfs to dragon specially since fairy types were introduced
The bit about Wish Salamence is oddly wholesome and easily the best thing about a mon that *such* a pain back in Gen 4 that it and Garchomp are basically why I quit the series for a while. Dragon being resisted only by Steel was so oppressive even if Game Freak went overboard with Fairy (while also forgetting to give us back the Ghost resist that Steel lost for Aegislash's sins).
21:00 There´s something hillarious of a limbless seadragon outspeeding in rain a pterodactyl and an electric dog BARELY TRYING
I love seeing old videos that call dragonite trash😭😭 crazy how much times have changed. U can’t go one battle without seeing one nowadays
How the Dragon Type evolved from gens 1-5 just make me angry at the addition of Fairy, because instead of feeling like a worthwhile addition like Steel and Dark it feels like Fairy was intentionally designed to be the new best type just to knock Dragon off its pedestal
You mean Dark or am I just dummy?
Fairy was so out of nowhere though I'm surprised it wasn't sound or something.
I think you mean Dark because Poison was always in Pokémon.
@@WilfredCthulu FUCK. My brain no work today.
idk, Dark and Steel were also added to knock Psychic and Normal off their pedestal to balance things out and Steel to this day is an amazing defensive typing
It does feel like Dragon took all this time and effort to become the powerhouse it was, and then for being too good in a few generations suddenly here comes Fairy that gets all the shit that makes it top tier from the start. It feels like it never had to deal with bullshit like "lmao only one move of your type and it deals fixed damage" WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA
"Throwing a Gun is an alternative to shooting it"
- Big Yellow, 2022
The fact that rayquaza is hanging with magneton and regice in A- is hilarious.
7:46 Not gonna lie, it's kinda trippy to see magneton in the same tier as rayquaza and regice. I guess magnet pull really is a great ability.
Gen 4 banning garchomp and Salamence did humorously lead to the rise of dragonite and flygon and now they are very common especially flygon
I remember when fairy types were first announced before X and Y came out and people were meming Jigglypuff as a dragon slayer. God, I miss those days.
I love how Dragon was garbage in Gen 1, the same Gen where Psychic and Normal types were disgustingly OP. Psychic got deservingly nerfed but maintain some status, even with Ttar, while Normal became worse overtime (Gen 8 did really dirty by removing 102 STAB Power Return).
And then, someone at Game Freak decided to play the repeat button in Gen 4 by making Outrage Physical with whooping 120 Power before STAB, Life Orb and Choice Band to make Physical Dragons like Mence and DNite sledgehammers. While Special Dragons and even Mixed Dragons have Draco Meteor, which is way more common than Overheat and Leaf Storm.
Been playing black and realizing psychic is highly nerfed and every thing has bite or pursuit lol
@@woodyhorton8537
It gets better in the late game, actually, because Pursuit is a Level Up move, and most Pokémon with it will not have it in their “4 most recently learned moves” that most non boss trainers in the game use
As a Nuzlocker though, I feel your pain: the DS era games are just out for BLOOD. Sure, Gen V and DPPT are infamous for their bosses, but the real Warzone in HGSS, just because the whole region feels like the walls are closing in on you as you’re about to prep for fighting a Level 50 Dragonite with STAB Outrage with a team that doesn’t have Ice Beam because you weren’t spending 5 years playing Minesweeper for ir
Dragon was a cooler best type than Fairy ever will be imo. Am I biased? Absolutely, but as a gen 4-5 kid I unironically believe that draco meteor’s animation is cooler than anything fairy has ever done
It FELT right to have it be a top 5 type. Having tinkerbell at top 2 is just wrong.
that why in my dragon team i got dugtrio not caring about smoga rullers use dugtrio to take them out hell in gen 8 my hyper dragon team becues of there seconed type don't care about fairy other then hydragion
It's also way easier to explain why a Dragon is top tier.
I had a 10 year old cousin of mine ask why Xerneas is so good and I couldn't think of a way to really explain it to someone who never played Pokemon before.
Dragon ain't like that, if that same child asked me why Garchomp is so good I'd say "it's a giant dragon with scythes on its claws, duh."
That's because we didn't get Eternal Floette's Light of Ruin.
I feel like half the issue with fairy is that game freak keeps pumping out steel/fairy mons while large portion of the dragon roster is quad weak to ice. Imagine a world where fairy is weak to fire.
The other half of the issue is that the fairy movepool is basically just psychic movepool where special attackers get psychic/moonblast which are amazing, reliable and come with a good proc to lower spdef. Meanwhile physical side gets zen headbutt/play rough which feel awful to use due to their unreliable accuracy.
Dragons were super strong but had to pick between powerful move with downsides (outrage/meteor) or weaker reliable move (claw/pulse) which really felt the power loss with dragon almost always hitting for neutral damage. No similar skill expression with the moonblast gang.
This might have been one of the most optimistic and entirely non-toxic discussions I've ever seen about competitive Pokémon, it was really refreshing
Wish on Bagon is super rare in the main games, it was an event gift some time ago. BUT it is great that Smogon brings it to the table to anyone, as Wish on Salamance opens new sets.
Flygon my beloved ❤
loving the hoodie matching the nail polish, slaying as always
unrelated to the video content, but i'm obsessed with the fact that your nails match your sweatshirt with that same soft green color
Is there any way you can talk about breloom? You look at its BST and think it's shit but then suddenly it can hold its own with several unique qualities!
That would be fun cause it's only recently it's really begun to shine in ADV
@@BigYellowSilly on top of that, can you name me 1 person who genuinely does not like Breloom? I don't think so. Breloom is one of the cutest fully evolved Pokémon. For me, Breloom is second in that category to Ampharos. However, in terms of an ugly to cute glow up? Breloom has to be #1, I can't think of anything that can rival the cuteness Breloom gained from evolving from Shroomish.
@@BigYellowSilly Breloom also carries a lot of its older sets into BDSP, if you’re interested in that tier
I’d argue maybe Whimsicott could be in the podium too, although cottonee isn’t exactly hideous so idk
@@Rarest26 fair enough
I've noticed that Hidden Powers of all types were common in Gen 3, but starting in Gen 4, you only really see Ice, Fire, Electric, and Grass. Was this just because of the physical/special split?
Yes. In gens 2 and 3, Hidden Power closed any gaps in a moveset for basically every Pokémon. Gen 4 onwards, that only applies to special attackers. Usually, the type chosen matches the meta of the generation e.g. gens 6 and 7 onwards using HP ice for Landorus.
It mainly comes down to Physical attackers making use of the coverage like HP Ghost or Bug, and also quite a lot of mons use it for STAB in Gen 3
Mainly yes, but also because many other better physical moves were invented. For example, in gen 4, it introduced Shadow Claw (higher base power than HP Ghost, and a crit rate boost), X Scissor (higher BP than HP Bug), as well as Brick Break being introduced in gen 3, being better than HP Fighting, and then Close Combat in gen 4. Those are the main reasons why even if the physical special split didn't exist in gen 4, those moves being invented would make those hidden powers irrelevant.
Remember that Gen 4 also introduced a fuckton of new coverage moves for types that had no moves between the 60-120 bp range for both physical and special, so Hidden Power became useless for physical attackers (since it was now always a special move) and redundant for many special attackers (who had new, better alternative special attacks, like how some Fire types that used to run hp grass now use Energy Ball instead).
To bounce of everyone else, the HPs that are used are commonly *missing* coverage. Lots of mons that want to kill Scizor/Forretress are missing Fire moves (looking at you Magnezone). Tons of electric types would kill for near-perfect coverage with Ice Beam, so HP Ice is a happy medium. The same isn't true for, say, Fighting - for most special attackers, Focus Miss is right there.. Another reason is that pokemon very weak to Bug (namely Celebi and Starmie) weren't common anymore and had special, but not physical, bulk.
Something kind of sad about B2W2 OU was that Haxorus basically completely fell off when Kyurem-Black entered the tier, which was honestly pretty sad considering Haxorus was a solid Pokémon.
True but nothing is stopping u from running him anyways
I mean, Haxorus still has it's place. It has dragon dance, higher speed and some better physical options.
Rest + Natural Cure is one of the dopest sets. Always ran it on Roserade, its cool Altaria can do it too
Listening to you talk about competitive Pokémon is so entertaining, I always get excited when I see you’ve uploaded a new video, also I love your nails man, they look sick and they match your hoodie really well
these videos are always so interesting and have taught me so much about competitive that I used to not understand! you make the older meta games super interesting to learn about (especially gen 1) and also your nail polish is always on point and I appreciate that
Damn, they really gave Dragonite 1 less base attack than Salamence didn't they? They didn't have to do them like that.
Also of course Dragonite doesn't get Intimidate, they're adorable!
I mean, the years eventually gave Dragonite their own niche. Nowadays, they're even more used in gen8 ou than salamence, mostly because Dragapult is better mence.
Mence was second: they very deliberately gave him 1 point MORE attack than Dnite
I think the point was for Nite to be the NidoQueen to Mence’s Nidoking. Unfortunately, GF seems to forget that the Nidoking of a duo almost always has more viability simply because speed tier is so important
There's a surprising amount of Pokemon who are "better X" and they just twist the knife by giving them 1-3 more points in a specific stat than the other one. Like, that can't be an algorithm, that has to be a distinct choice a human being made because "fuck that other Pokemon".
They created salamence first so it's really the other way around
Man, this is such a great video topic. Your competitive Pokemon videos, to me, are as good as anyone else's out there, especially given the wide amount of topics you cover.
Can I just say the Pokémon nicknames in your videos are absolutely phenomenal? Because they're top tier.
I added Gothitelle to my Drag-Mag team and was regularly near the top of the OU ladder back in the day
this channel is becoming my favorite when it comes to comp pokemon
I love these videos. I started playing competitive come gen 6 (seeing as I’m ‘04) so these videos are such a cool insight into metas before my time. The only way I learnt anything about this before you was FSG and he’s awesome but no one talks about the metas really. Love the vids
Yo, a new vid! Gotta say, I found your channel a few weeks ago because I randomly got your Insaniquarium video recommended to me, and I went through pretty much your entire volume of uploads in a day or two. Love your style and your voice, keep it up!
Big Yellow always with the freshest beats, I love your channel my man, your content makes my day
Always nice to see ADV getting some love. It's my favorite gen alongside gen 1, I think it's the only gen (that I played) in which all the tiers are both balanced and fun to play.
Also, I like how your nail color goes with your outfit. Nice touch.
Loved the vid! :) I enjoy hearing interesting analysis of niche topics like this!
You ever feel like talking about 1v1? 1v1 is probably my favorite alternate format, because basically any pokemon can function, and FEAR strats are pretty powerful
Love how you change the nail polish in the vids is rlly nice seeing the diff colours :)
BABE SHUT UP I’M WATCHING THE NEW BIG YELLOW POKÉMON ANALYSIS VIDEO
Such original, such funny
Love that your hoodie matches your nails
I've had that going for a few vids I think gotta keep it up 👌
Just wanted to say thank you for making these videos🙏 ur pokemon content is amazing
I only ever played Pokemon super casually as a kid, but these videos are a really interesting look into a more competitive side of the games I never saw. It's cool to learn about all the generations and their own cool or strange metas and strategies.
Fairy would have better type balance if it didn't needlessly resist bug type.
No idea why they thought Bug needed another type that resisted it. I’ve seen other people suggest Bug should become super effective against and resist Fairy, and I definitely agree with them.
Fr who out there thought Bug was too offensively potent
It’s so funny how Fairy was SUPPOSED to balance the chart but did the exact opposite.
I always hear from a lot of competitive players that it's necessary to resist U-turn, which makes me wonder why more people don't advocate to just nerf U-turn's BP to 30-40 (Volt Switch can probably stay, since it gets blocked by Ground)
@@Rarest26 For singles it did a reasonable job because many fully evolved fairy types are slower than many fully evolved dragon types & usually can't 1-shot many dragon types, as the type is very bulky. For doubles it got ridiculous with all the absurd fairy types with massive movepools with borderline OP stuff.
Having steel types & poison types use their STAB moves benefited singles play because it helps take momentum away better than doubles, where you need to factor in both pokemon.
Great video, you do a wonderful job of setting up the context for your talking points while staying on topic and engaging. Looking forward to more of your videos!
I don't have much to add to the conversation, I just want to say I love your content. All your videos are lovely to watch and super interesting (even your street fighter ones despite me not playing SF at all)
Nice, glad you made more Pokémon.
Glad Dragon along with Fighting got better as the generations go on.
I'm loving these videos, hope you get some more out soon.
I could watch you talk about competitive Pokémon for literally ages, these videos are always so interesting especially from someone who started in BW2
Back from LTC so I finally get to watch this lmao
Really fun vid as always, it's cool to learn about Gen 3 competitive specifically
Started playing gen 3 ou last week and love the tier a lot. Perfect time for this video, it was great!
Always so interesting to hear about the competitive Pokémon scene, no matter what generation you might be covering in a video. Would absolutely love to hear out more about the Gen 3 competitive scene, with your talks of Gen 3 OU being such a fantastic iteration of the tier, in particular, seeming like a really good topic to cover.
Though really, you talking about anything's bound to have my attention, so cover anything at all that might interest you!
Just wanna say, I know a good number of people probably just listen to the videos, but I really appreciate the goofy nicknames in the gameplay footage.
Great video. Thanks for talking about advanced!
Comment for the algorithm, love your stuff Yellow!
While I think the fairy type is cool
It beat down dragon too much
It does bug me that they nerfed a top tier type by just adding arguably another top tier type that beats it
@@BigYellowSilly shoulda just made ice resist dragon
They should've made Bug resist and deal super effective damage to Fairy. And then make Poison SE vs Water so that Bug didn't offensively invalidate Poison once again
@@grunkleg.3110 I've always liked the idea of Ice being immune to Fairy but all of that is p neat too
They literally shot a high tier type to make a broken one. At least steel was meh offensively so it kinda works. But this is just dumb.
3:25 Shoutouts to BKC. He didn't invent it or anything as far as I know, but he does have a very good comprehensive video on the style that introduced me to its hilarity.
I love BKC's vids tbh, he recently did ones on DPP Salamence and ADV Latias hypothetically dropping to OU I found very interesting
@@BigYellowSilly His stuff is super interesting for a more in depth look on specific metas and how the mon in them are affected or affect it in turn. They also work very well as a sleep aid, his voice is very calming.
Excellent vid as always. Not much of an FGC player but I always come back to check if you uploaded a pokemon vid! Heres a comment for the algorithm
You are like the mini-BKC, amazing Pokemon videos.
Your editing is always stellar but this video in particular is breaking me
i like the way your nail polish matches the hoodie :)
5:05
Words of a man who never got swept by a Kingdra
I can't tell which was hit harder: Normal type after gens 1 and 2 or dragon type after gen 5. Neither are necessarily bad now, but man. Look how they massacred my boys.
Normal is absolute dogshit right now though
Normal was fine, even good before Gen 4. Dragon has been ass since XY.
@@Rarest26 Dragon is still an excellent type wdym.
It is so bizarre to see magneton on gen 3 ubers and on a rank similar to Rayquaza of all things
considering the fact that dragonite has definitely aged much much better than salamence, i don't necessarily feel THAT bad about it being so outclassed
left a sub and a like, you make great competitive content.
Oh shit it large yellow
3:29 that is a very very interesting sound effect
I didn't know Salamence learned Wish. That is amazing.